Live From San Francisco Sketchfest, 2018

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week's episode was recorded live at San Francisco Sketch Fest.

Our live audience in San Francisco not only got to see us, but got a special surprise musical performance from Toon Yards.

You won't hear the songs that Toon Yards performed, but you will hear two members of the band in another segment of the show.

They have a brand new album called I Can Can Feel You Creep Into My Private Life.

It comes out Friday wherever music is sold.

And we do love our tune yards here at the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Now, let's go to the stage at the Castro Theater in San Francisco, where Judge John Hodgman is talking to some new friends of the court.

I did want to say hello to Daniel.

Daniel is a new friend.

He wrote me saying that he was coming to the show on a blind date.

So I said, you're going to sit in the front row.

Daniel,

which one of these people is your date?

What is your name?

Rebecca.

Rebecca.

You guys have never met before.

Have you ever heard of this podcast?

No.

All right, great.

Rebecca, how's the date going so far?

On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the best date ever.

And it can change from moment to moment.

I will be checking back with you.

Five?

Five.

Look,

that's great.

Strict scale.

Hey, I'm not on a date with her.

That's fine.

We're looking for drama and transformation here.

Yeah.

If you had said 10 right off the bat, we would have nothing to work towards.

This is good.

Let's do the Judge Sean Hodgman podcast.

I'm going to retire to my chambers.

Fantastic.

Ladies and gentlemen, we sent out a call for disputes and you answered.

We've got an amazing show planned for you composed of Bay Area Justice.

Shall we get into it?

Let's bring out our first set of litigants.

Please welcome Matt and Alyssa.

Tonight's case,

statute ARF limitations.

Matt brings the case against his wife, Alyssa.

Their beloved pet dog, Pluto, passed away last year.

Alyssa wants to get a new dog.

Matt needs more time to mourn.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers an obscure cultural reference.

Oh, Powell!

Oh, Powell!

What have I done?

Oh, what have I done?

Don't leave me, Pal.

Don't leave me.

Is there a doctor in the house?

Oh, don't leave me.

Oh, Powell, Powell, Powell, Paul.

Please say something.

Say something.

Kiss me.

Matt and Alyssa, please raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that,

I don't know, I guess he

is a robber who puts sleeping pills into steaks and then feeds them to dogs?

I do.

I do.

Do you think that would really work?

You've wondered whether it would really work, right?

Okay.

It's not just me.

Judge Hodgman, you may proceed.

Matt and Alyssa, you may be seated for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors.

Can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom.

Matt, why don't you guess first?

No, but I'll take a shot in the dark and go the sand lot.

What did you say?

The sand lot.

The sand lot, the movie, The Sand Lot.

Well, let's enter that into the guest book.

Jesse, bring out the guest book.

Oh, that's right.

I forgot.

You've never seen the guest book before.

No one ever told you that it's six feet high and all the guesses are engraved on golden plates.

Too bad people at home can't see this amazing piece of

incredibly elaborate technology that I use to record the guests of every litigant.

Oh no, bees!

Oh, I forgot that they

forgot that the organ here at the Castro Theater that lives down there in that organ hole

is actually powered by a hive of killer peas.

Okay, Matt, we can put your guess, the sand lot, into the guest book.

And Matt, I like that guess, and I'll tell you why.

You didn't have any idea what the reference was, but you thought,

what does Judge Hodgman like to reference?

And you said, sports movies.

Love them.

Especially nostalgic sports movies.

I would have gone with Field of Dreams, but

how about Bored to Death?

I changed my guess to Bored to De Death.

What was it?

Bored to Death.

Bored to Death.

Sitcom starring John Hudson.

Very, very popular sitcom.

Now, Alyssa,

he guessed twice.

You may guess twice if you wish.

Well, I forgot most of my prepared guesses, so I'm going to go with Where the Red Fern Grows.

Where the Red Fern Grows.

Did the dog die in that one?

I think so.

There were a lot of, I'll put that in the guest book.

There was like a golden age of dead dog literature.

I know.

I know.

Old Yeller, isn't that one?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I didn't, that's, but that's not it.

And nor is yours, and nor is both of yours.

All guesses are wrong.

I had a lot of choices.

I was looking for all dogs go to heaven, but I couldn't find anything in there.

I had some really good ones from Ghost Dog, starring Forrest Whitaker.

Dude, Ghost Dog is what's up!

That movie is fresh.

This is one that I almost went with from Ghost Dog.

Remember the part where he walks past the Rizza in the street and they're just like...

Yeah.

You're like, yeah.

One from Ghost Dog was, meditation on inevitable death should be performed daily.

That was the one I was going to go with, which is also a good tagline for my book, Vacation Land, available.

Dude, can I tell you something about Ghost Dog?

Yeah.

I was really into Ghost Dog in high school, and I read this interview with Jim Jarmish where he was talking about the Rizza made the soundtrack of that movie.

And he was like, yeah, just like every six or eight weeks, the Rizza would call me, and he'd hand me a CD in a parking lot.

Like, exactly how I imagined the Rizzo would distribute soundtrack music.

A dog's purpose, if you like dog death, man, you get four good ones in there, I think, right?

That was my prepared guess.

That was what you were going to guess?

It was my prepared.

It was my prepared guess.

That was your prepared guess.

Why didn't you go with it?

Because it reminded me of

Pluto.

You could have guessed Marley and me, or as Judge Hodgman calls it, Marley and I.

It's conceivable that Marley and that person could have been the direct objects of that sentence.

You mean like they're coming for Marley and me?

Yeah.

This book is about Marley and me.

It's not necessarily Marley and me wrote a book.

Did Marley write the book?

book?

I don't know.

Yeah.

I think it was co-authored by his ghost.

But for all of the dead dog choices I could have gone with, I instead chose something special.

Because your dog was named Pluto.

I quoted the Mickey Mouse short, The Moose Hunt,

from 1931.

Specifically,

the scene in which Mickey Mouse believes he has shot Pluto to death.

Because Pluto was carrying a branch that made him look like a moose.

And Mickey Mouse is an irresponsible gun owner.

Do you know that joke?

No.

Oh, it's like the greatest joke.

I don't want to derail the show, but I'm going to tell it.

Don't you?

So the king and the vizier are going moose hunting.

Sure.

You know, the vizier is there to hold the guns and so on and so forth.

You know what a vizier is.

They're traveling through the forest and they get to a clearing.

And in the center of the clearing is a man who's completely naked.

And

the king,

you know, just kind of unthinkingly swings his gun up and points it at the man.

Man raises his hands.

He says, Your Majesty,

please don't shoot me.

I'm not a moose.

And the king

shoots him dead right there in the clearing.

Now the vizier, he's upset.

You know, he just saw a man murdered in cold blood.

Right.

He says, Your Majesty, why did you shoot that man?

He said he wasn't a moose.

And the king says,

oh, geez, I thought he said he was a moose.

Well, that's all the time we have, Lisa.

Mickey Mouse shoots Pluto.

and thinking that he has killed his dog Pluto says, please, pal, say something.

And Pluto says, Pluto realizes that Pluto was just like pretending to be dead.

And then as a joke, he says to Mickey Mouse, kiss me, which is disgusting on his face.

But also, the only time Pluto ever speaks.

This is the only time Pluto ever speaks out loud.

And they never did it again for the obvious reason that

granting Pluto the power of reasoning and speech would only further underscore the horrible injustice of his enslavement.

To a giant mouse.

In short pants.

In a world where all other animals walk on two legs and wear clothes.

And Pluto is...

You need to get some short pants.

And Pluto is owned by a disproportionately large, impossible mouse monster.

And if I were Pluto and I had the power of reasoning and speech, I don't know which would be more repulsive to me, that I am enslaved or that I have to look at Mickey Mouse every day.

So in any case, we have to hear your case.

And

thank you for being here.

I'm sorry for the loss of Pluto.

At this point, I would probably ask about Pluto, but I only imagine that you brought some pictures.

And I would like to see some pictures of this good, good dog.

So let's go to the evidence, please.

First slide.

Oh.

So that's Pluto.

What kind of dog is Pluto there?

He is a German Shepherd Pitnix.

Oh, wow.

Well, it was.

Well,

I mean, I don't think his breed changes just because he's died.

I hope you're not delusional.

This is a court of real facts.

Okay.

Next slide, please.

He was very handsome.

Oh.

Now here, for those who can't watch, and obviously obviously all these photos are going to be on the Judge John Hodgman Instagram account, Matt and Pluto are

twerking?

What's going on in this photo?

You're looking under the TV for something.

Is that right?

You don't twerk while you watch the football game?

I don't know how these things are done.

What's happening in this photo, Matt?

Yeah, Pluto lost a toy under the TV stand.

So he and I, he was a very helpful companion and always wanted to be involved with everything we were doing.

So he was helping dad search for the ball.

Yeah.

The two of you, in other words, had shoved your face into the crevice and were barking aggressively

together.

Yes.

Got it.

It sounds like you were the more helpful companion because he couldn't get his toy.

And through his symbiotic adoption of you, he got you to get it for him.

Is that correct?

Yeah, the kind of reverse of the Pluto-Mickey situation.

He's a good dog.

Next slide, please.

Oh, now here we see Pluto and Matt snuggled up, and Matt is wearing some highly questionable pajama pants.

Purchased by Alyssa.

Candy cane pajama pants.

You know, obviously you're all cozy at home.

I noticed that your couch is covered dramatically with some kind of throw to prevent Pluto's hair from getting all over it, such as the cost of being a pet owner.

Next slide.

Oh, and here's a very similar situation.

Now it's Alyssa and Pluto snuggling together, and there's another small creature there.

Who's that?

That's our daughter.

That's your daughter.

How old is your daughter?

Almost two.

She looks younger than that.

She's a week old there.

Oh, this is an older photo, right, of course.

Excuse me.

Next slide, please.

Oh, Pluto isn't here anymore.

What's going on with this?

This is our living room currently, currently, and Pluto died May of last year.

And we still have his dog bed,

two different paw print impressions to the left of the ELF DVD on the corner of the dresser there, his collar,

a box containing his ashes, and a dog-themed photo frame with the photo of Pluto and I at the bar in it.

Good choice of theme.

So this is your shrine.

This is your shrine to your friend.

How did Pluto pass away?

Essentially, degenerative myelopathy, which is a

dumb it down too much.

Yeah, he was euthanized.

He was euthanized is how he passed away technically, but

it's a disease that runs in German shepherds.

And

what does it cause?

I'm sorry, I don't know.

You lose the myelar sheath,

starts not functioning, and so you lose sensation in your hind limbs and then control, and it progresses up the spine until you can no longer breathe.

It is a degenerative disease with no cure.

And so you did the responsible things as pet owners.

You took them to be murdered.

Yes.

Judge Coshman makes that joke so often, I feel like it's a challenge to listeners, like

a like an it, like a, oh yeah, you're going to keep listening after I say this.

It's the, I did it.

It's no fun, but it is the responsible thing.

Next slide, please.

Oh,

there's your daughter and Pluto.

Does your daughter have a name?

Audrey.

Audrey.

Oh, they seem to get along really well.

What is the point of this evidence?

This was my evidence that she may never have another sibling.

So Pluto was her brother.

She actually called him brother.

And I want her to have that experience again.

Okay, so this is where we're getting down to it, because you would like to get a dog, ASAP.

And Matt, you're not ready yet.

Is that correct?

That's correct.

All right, is there any other evidence to see here?

Can we go to the next slide?

Oh.

This is just some

paw and hand touching.

How's the date going now?

This is a family-friendly podcast, but this is pretty adorable, right?

Next slide, please.

And here you guys are at the beach with Pluto.

What is the significance of this photograph?

Alyssa, if this is your submission.

Yes, it is to show that we did fun-filled activities with Pluto

and that it reminds me of a time when we could do fun-filled activities.

Are you trying to, you give me this evidence to convince me that you will take the dog to the beach and not just keep it in a basement hole?

We were good pet owners that played with your dog?

Yes.

Yeah, okay, good.

I know that every pet owner feels that they have a super special relationship with their dog that no other pet owner has.

It's actually pretty typical, but

still

very lovely.

My dog has that relationship with anyone who's been sitting in my living room more than 10 minutes.

Yeah, that's right.

So you guys had some good times.

Is there any more?

Next slide?

No, that's the end of the evidence.

You can check all that out on Judge John Hodgman Instagram account if you wish, if you are not here to see it yourself.

So let's talk about your dispute.

Matt, tell me why you don't want to get another dog.

I do want to get another dog.

I just am not quite ready right now.

The Pluto died in May, as I said.

He died actually 13 days after Alyssa got her first chemotherapy treatment for Hodgkin's lymphoma.

And she's in remission now and

doing much better.

better and you know but it was a long time.

I think the audience probably would have applauded without your promise.

I think they would have booed and hissed.

But so because she had just started treatment we just kind of had to do it and didn't have much time to focus on it and she just completed treatment in December.

She's going back to work next Tuesday.

I just, I want a couple of months of normalcy of

not having the weight of the last year on us, and to recognize how wonderful our dog was, how much we loved him, how much he meant to us.

Well, that sounds very reasonable, Alyssa.

Why don't you want to wait three months?

A three-month waiting period?

I am home alone with the baby, and I liked having him bark when packages were delivered and just kind of follow us around the house.

That makes me sound like a shopaholic, but.

It sounds to me like you hate your UPS person.

I meant just anybody coming to the door.

It gives me a sense of security.

If Matt works late or is playing poker or whatever,

it makes me feel better.

And through the treatment, it was kind of this sign of when life gets back to normal, we'll get a dog.

Dogs at the bar or what kind of dog are you, Matt?

Standard.

So you're saying you would feel more secure if a dog were around?

Yes.

Pluto was, I mean, a sweetheart, but he did look scary.

Right.

And do you feel insecure now, home alone?

Yeah.

With that baby?

I do.

Especially when Matt's at the opium den, right?

Yes.

Is it just a security issue, or is there anything else at play?

The house is kind of quiet.

He would follow us literally everywhere.

And we liked that part of it.

They were buddies, and that was fun to see.

And the other day, my daughter wanted me to draw 12 cats in chalk.

She's super into chalk right now.

But as dog people, that's a little scary

to have a cat person child.

Not that anything's wrong with cats.

We're both allergic.

So we can't have a cat.

You're afraid that absent a dog in your daughter's life

without a good dog role model.

she's going to grow into the kind of person you can't tolerate.

No, I love cat people.

Well, good, because I've never owned a dog, but I've had several cats

for the simple purpose that I feel nervous when someone pretends to like me.

That I feel very comfortable being silently judged.

And I enjoy having a box of poop in my apartment.

You were diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma and began treatment last May when Pluto, and that was part of the reason why Pluto was euthanized because there was too much to deal with.

Was that correct?

No.

Matt was nodding there.

I heard that from Matt.

Now I'll hear Alyssa's side of it.

To give the full story, at that point he couldn't use his back legs, so we'd carry him in a harness and help carry the back legs.

We also ordered

a custom-built wheelchair designed for his specifications.

Yeah, we did a PET scan.

We did

some DNA testing to confirm that it was, in fact, the genome of myelopathy.

Yes.

No one's doubting that you took all the extraordinary measures that you could to prolong Pluto's life.

And I'm not sure why someone accused you of being

aside from me of being a murderer.

The point was,

Alyssa in particular would have gone to any lengths, to all lengths to save that dog.

And she had planned on doing doggy diapers and things of that nature.

But because of the complications and side effects of chemotherapy, where she is neutropenic and can't be around germs,

taking care of your dog

is not exactly

family-friendly podcast.

Yes, I'm sorry.

Forgive me.

So,

in any case, you began treatment around the time that you lost Pluto.

And now you have completed treatment as well.

First of all, that's wonderful.

Does this experience with cancer affect your thinking about the dog in any way, or is that incidental in your mind?

Not so much.

It was just so many rules during treatment that, I mean, I couldn't go pet a dog, so now I'm that crazy lady who will chase chase you down the street to say hi to your dog.

Right.

So that part of it, it's kind of a sign that life's back to normal, that I'm healthy again.

Like, sick people don't go choose a dog and make that commitment for 15 years.

Right.

So that part of it's fun.

Because Matt said that he wanted to return to normalcy for a few months, but it seems to me like having a dog might signal normalcy to you in a way that it doesn't to him.

Would you say that that's true, Matt?

Like, why would having a new dog not be normal?

Well, I would say historically, having a dog would be normal for me and not for her.

I strongly believe, and Alyssa has previously agreed to me, though I don't know if she will here, that she didn't love dogs until we were together.

That she had dogs growing up, but they were pets and not part of the family.

So,

yeah, maybe now it is normal for her to have a dog.

For me,

yes, having a dog would be normal.

I'm not trying to mean she lived with a dog.

I'm just speculating, perhaps,

that getting a dog, getting, like, as you say, getting a dog isn't what a sick person does.

And she's not sick right now.

So she would like to get a dog in celebration of her non-sickness.

And you don't want that.

Why?

Because of the year we've been through, I think it would be nice to get back to

just to have a small, a very, you know, quarter of a year, three-month window where we don't have some new life-changing event happening.

And that's kind of what I want.

Yeah, how do you feel about that, Alyssa?

Does that change your mind?

How does it make you feel?

It makes me feel like I should be understanding of his request because he has done so much for us in the last year.

But I still really want a dog.

Judge Hodgman, I just want to clarify something.

I got some stuff in my notes here.

I'm a little confused.

So Alyssa, you had, was that non-Hodgkin's lymphoma?

Hodgkin's.

Hodgkin's lymphoma.

Matt, what did you survive?

I had a wife with Hodgkin's lymphoma.

It's hard on everyone, okay?

Hard on everyone in the family.

Alyssa, I have a question for you.

Having a new dog is a lot more work than having

a dog you've had for a long time.

You know, you're signing up for a year or 18 months of being very actively engaged with training the dogs.

Actually, it's a million-year contract.

You're thinking of the Sea Org, judgement.

Again?

Classic mix-up.

Very tempting.

Very tempting arrangement.

Go on.

Are you prepared for that as someone who has just recovered from a major illness and is about to go back to work and has a small child in the house?

When you put it all together like that, it makes me nervous.

But I think so.

We were going to adopt an older dog, so it wouldn't be quite as much work.

I know it's still a huge adjustment.

What kind of dog are you looking for?

Probably a one- to two-year-old larger dog, since this is my scary dog.

Right.

And basically, just one who will be good with our daughter.

Have you thought about a dire wolf?

If you can get me one.

There are usually some laying around.

Hey, Judge Hodgman, dope idea.

Matt,

you want me to rule a three-month moratorium on dogs.

How does it feel with Pluto gone and why do you want to prolong that period?

Yeah,

it's hard.

And by the way, I want you to think about this.

I don't want you to say a few words and then I have to psychoanalyze you and come back and tell you your truth.

I want you to tell me your truth.

Because this is the only thing that's going to get me to rule in your favor, is hearing your truth about this and Alyssa hearing it too.

It gets very heavy sometimes, Rebecca.

The absence of a dog definitely

there is a feeling of loss.

There's a feeling of loss.

Not just a dog.

Pluto.

Pluto.

Pluto in particular.

Pluto in particular.

Say his name.

Yes.

However,

having a dog,

as Bailiff Jesse was saying, also has a large number of responsibilities.

We can't can't go on baseball.

I don't want to hear this!

Jesse already said it.

She already acknowledged it.

I asked you a question: What does it feel like now that Pluto is gone, and why do you want to prolong that?

It feels

like we have fewer commitments, and because we've had a very regimented schedule over the last few years.

Maybe it feels sad, probably would be the word I was saying.

Sad, right?

Sad.

See, the answer I was looking for was sad.

Survey says, sad.

Do we see commitments?

Honestly, if your truth is this, it's a little bit easier without a dog right now, say that.

It's a little bit easier without a dog right now.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to hear my...

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I'm going to go into my chambers and give this some consideration.

We'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Alyssa, do you already have a name picked out in your head for the dog, if it's a boy dog or a girl dog?

I don't.

I'm kind of curious to see what my daughter will name it.

Ooh, wow.

It's going to be named Paw Patrol.

Bad news.

Doc McStuffins the dog.

Doc McStuffins.

Sorry, I had to punch up your two-year-old's imaginary name.

She might be able to do it.

You know, I've had two dogs who are who are now, I think they're probably both around double digits.

We don't know exactly how old they are.

They're very happy and healthy,

but

there is a part of me that I know I'm not going to get three dogs, and I don't want my, I want to have my two dogs.

But there's a part of me that wants there somehow to be room for another dog so that I can name it Hambone.

It's like all I think about.

It's like, God, I can't wait until I meet Hambone.

I know my next dog's name will be Hambone.

And I thought I was really great until I met one of the hosts of the MaxFun podcast, Can I Pet Your Dog?

She didn't have a dog for a long time.

She finally got a dog, named it Tugboat.

Tugboat.

Oh, what could be be more beautiful than tugboat the dog?

Anyway, I don't want to derail things.

Don't you?

Matt, I mean,

you had a baby in a really difficult time in your life and you figured it out.

You've had a new dog at some point and you've figured it out.

I mean, do you understand the way that when something like this happens in your life, it just

all the pieces work out somehow.

Yeah, Alyssa is how they all work out.

She generally handles that stuff.

So,

how's that date going?

Just got extremely romantic.

Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say about all of this in just a moment.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom and presents his verdict.

Matt Alyssa, I love your relationship.

You guys obviously are very devoted to each other, and you've gone through some difficult things.

You may or may not know that here at the Castro Theater,

we have a young couple that are just starting out on a lifelong commitment.

Right now, they're just working on the basics, though.

Sid, stay.

And I hope they take you as role models as they go forward in their entwined lives together.

For your obvious mutual affection and obvious support,

I would say to Daniel, who's on this blind date, don't spend so much time playing poker.

And I cannot wait till you guys get this dog.

This dog is going to come into your lives.

You both are agreed on that point.

And it is obvious that it is going to happen because you guys,

you know, as a family, you love Pluto.

You guys love touching paws with a dog.

And you've got to get Audrey off of this terrible cat track.

Who knows where that will lead?

Obviously, toxoplasmosis.

Forrest card.

Then what's next?

Books?

Yeah, right.

Cozy mysteries is what comes next, my friends.

Verbal teas.

And I can't wait for Audrey to name that dog, and I can't wait for you guys to deal with the fact that your dog is now named Meow Meow.

While I appreciate

that a dog provides extra company and security and

you would like to get back to normal as quickly as possible.

And while I would have been more sympathetic to Matt if he had at one point said, I just need some time to feel sad that my dog is gone,

and instead simply said, I don't need these extra chores.

Not needing extra chores is a reasonable thing in life.

That is not, it perhaps seems a little bit heartless,

but it is not unreasonable.

You both have had a lot to process, and the fact that Matt wants some extra time to process the loss of Pluto and the obvious happy news of your being healthy and spending time with his daughter and everything else, that actually makes sense to me.

Matt and you have gone through a lot, a lot of surprises.

You've gone through a lot of poop in the past year, and you don't need extra poop on your floors as a surprise in the morning to deal with.

So, and if Matt were asking for

two years, a year, even six months, I'd be like, dude, stop it.

But three months, I think, is a reasonable ask.

I have to remind myself sometimes that this whole point,

the whole point of fake internet court is to

arrive at a fair decision, not merely a decision that favors the person I like more, Alyssa.

Obviously.

And so, with great respect,

I think three months is a reasonable waiting period before Mia Miao is acquired.

I think your plan to adopt an older dog, a rescue dog, is obviously a wonderful idea.

But in the meantime, Matt, I want you to be considerate of Alyssa's security concerns.

I need you to stop playing poker.

I need you to get away from that opium den.

I need you to be home to yell at the UPS person when they come by.

A little bit more, but mostly because if you're going to take these three months, really take this three months to be with your wife and daughter and enjoy each other as much as possible.

So,

sorry, Alyssa, but I rule in Matt's favor.

This is the sound of a gavel.

No, wait a minute.

That sounded terrible.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Still bad.

This is the sound of a gavel.

There we go.

Judge John Hodgman rules.

That is all.

That and Alyssa, ladies and gentlemen.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

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The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Quince.

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You're listening to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

This episode was recorded live at the San Francisco Sketch Fest.

Let's go back to the stage at the Castro Theater for Swift Justice, featuring our friends Meryl Garbis and Nate Brenner of Toon Yards.

Nate and Meryl, I understand you guys have a little bit of a dispute, is that correct?

Well, why don't you come walk along here?

Say hi to Daniel and Rebecca right there in the front row.

They're on their first date.

It's a blind date.

We don't know how it's going to go.

Rebecca, I bet you didn't expect to meet Indie Rock Royalty tonight.

Tell me the name of your record album.

I Can Feel You Creep Into My Private Life.

And where and when is it available everywhere all over the place?

A week from,

well, let's see, in podcast land, January 19th.

January 19th of this year, 2018?

2018.

Fantastic.

So

can't wait to hear it.

Let's begin Swift Justice.

Jesse Thorne, do you have a 10-minute clock?

10-minute clock is ready.

All right.

Meryl and Nate, first of all, what is the nature of your relationship?

We are married.

Married to each other?

To each other.

Bandmates and married to each other.

Can't see how that would ever cause a dispute.

What

is the nature of your dispute?

Meryl, go.

Nate says I talk too much.

I say Nate talks too little.

So far, Nate has said nothing.

Precisely my point.

In fact, all of our backstage time, I believe, Nate said, hello.

And that was it.

Oh, no.

I said nice jacket.

He said, it's new.

Really, Meryl?

What more is there to say?

Nate, do you want to defend yourself in two words or less?

I'm innocent.

While I can appreciate, Meryl, that this might be challenging to live with on a daily basis.

Surely you appreciate the long-form art project that Nate is doing.

Oh, that's what it is.

Is he really this closed-mouthed at home?

Yes.

Is it worse when you're out in the world,

or is it the same when you're in private?

That's a good question.

I'm often.

I'm often talking so much,

I don't notice.

Nate, what is a situation where Meryl has talked too much to the detriment of your social standing or

relationship?

Well yeah, like if you're in

the

club president was there.

Right.

My position in society has calmed down as a result.

As indie rock royalty.

That's right.

Nate, what's the yeah, answer the question, Nate.

I will say that Meryl accused me of talking too little,

and then I noticed that maybe she talks a little too much.

So your accusation followed hers.

Exactly.

It's a suit countersuit situation.

I think you're, I think, Nate, I think your countersuit is frivolous.

Frivolous and punitive, and I throw it out immediately.

Overruled.

Okay, sustained.

I really want to hear more words from you.

I started playing the bass so I wouldn't have to talk.

I grew my hair out so I wouldn't have to talk.

We have to say one more.

Rule of threes.

Rule of threes.

Rule of threes.

I bought bought this jacket so I wouldn't have to talk.

I signed in Nate's favor.

Ladies and gentlemen, Nate and Meryl.

We'll hear more from them, or at least one of them, a little later on.

We're bringing on our next litigants, Chessey.

Misty and Aaron.

Is that a rune?

A rune.

A rune.

Misty and a rune.

Correct.

First of all, for those of you listening at home,

I really should have queued a gasp when these two came on

because they are dressed so sharply.

So, Misty and Arun.

Why do you guys look so great?

Truthfully, it's to impress Jesse.

We had

so much planning just to impress Jesse.

You took so much planning to impress Jesse?

We did.

Because you, our followers, have put this on Jesse's menwear blog?

Very much so.

They're both wearing very sharp hats.

What would you call your hat there, Arun?

Is that a stingy brim?

Is that a fedora?

It's a fedora.

As in the hat person told me that it's a fedora.

Okay, very good.

Can we buzz market that?

Sure.

Could be a Trilby.

He knows better, for sure.

That's another t-shirt.

Could be a Trilby.

Arun, are you wearing a t-shirt underneath that collared shirt?

No.

All right, that's what I like to see.

Boy, when Jesse Thornton said no one should ever wear a t-shirt under a collared shirt, I had to quick look to make sure I wasn't because I was like, he's right, and I wasn't, I'm glad to say.

But my son has been binge-watching friends, and all of them are wearing t-shirts under their shirts.

The 90s were terrible.

Anyway.

For all of us.

Daniel, what are you wearing under your shirt?

T-shirt?

T-shirt under there?

Ooh.

Oh, my God.

To be fair, it's not white.

It's not a white t-shirt.

It's not a white t-shirt.

Yeah, he's doing like a layering.

Yeah, yeah, that's fine.

That's okay.

It's fine.

It's fine.

It's not just an undershirt that you've decided to show everyone.

Okay.

But this,

we're robbing justice from you by talking about fashion, although you guys look fantastic.

What is the nature of your dispute?

Misty go.

Our dispute is: Erin here has a staunch and perplexing dedication to iodized table salts.

Iodized table salts.

Yes, sir.

And

remind me, what geographical region are we in again?

Iodized table salt.

You got a hiss from the crowd.

Imagine if we'd said fluoride.

What do you use iodized table salt for?

For all of the cooking that I do.

All the cooking.

Yeah.

Do you have a goiter problem?

No, I don't want it, so.

Is it keeping you safe?

Yeah, I feel very safe.

Why do you

now?

There are better kinds of salt out there.

You don't need iodized salt.

Why do you like it?

It's not just the iodine part, it's just the table salt.

And when I buy the table salt, it's usually.

Is it a matter of thrift?

Is it a matter of anti-snobbery?

Is it a matter?

Because no one who's wearing a fedora should be using iodine in a table salt.

Thank you.

Again, I would like to point out that it's just not the matter of iodine.

I think Misty's problem is more with table salt in general used in the middle of the day.

Precisely, because as you pointed out, he does it in any weird ways.

Yes, he does.

He has a glass jar that he keeps it in and has a spoon with, I'm not exaggerating, two spoonful minimum in every dish, just blindly.

What size?

Yes, salt makes things taste better.

Exactly, thank you.

As needed.

Does he sometimes add sugar as well?

Not in this house.

So is your gripe less

the jankiness of the salt than the overuse of salt in general?

Tell me what you want me to rule.

Something about Aaron that you should know is he puts a tremendous amount of research to anything in, near, or around on his body.

Hair care products, everything, everything ingested on and near him, pants.

And I just feel that it's idiosyncratic that he not consider the salt that he uses so much of.

Can I ask

Is there something bad about iodized table salt that I'm not aware of?

No.

It's just kind of old-fashioned and unnecessary.

Are you like making chocolate chip cookies with Himalayan pink salt or something?

No.

It wouldn't even measure right, right?

No.

Are you opposed to iodine, an essential bodily nutrient?

Table salt was fortified with iodine in order to prevent people from getting goiters, and that is not a public health concern anymore.

Yeah, because of iodized table salt.

Thank you, Jesse.

I agree.

Himalayan.

Also, I would like to point out that

the kind of salts that Misty is suggesting is like kosher salt and things like that.

And I did the research and the chemical composition is the same.

It does not change the taste in any way.

The only reason kosher salt is used is because it's easier to measure and put in the foot.

Texture, dude.

Texture.

Look, I don't care.

Well, he's not talking about finishing salt.

I know.

I know.

Do you have a finishing salt?

I usually.

I don't care.

Either you know or you don't.

I don't.

Look.

I find that I die that, look, I'm not, why am I avoiding talking about it?

Morton's.

That salt is

too fine.

Don't like it.

Also, I think that iodine gives it an off taste, but maybe that's what you like about it.

However, if you are baking or putting stuff into stews, all that salt will just disappear.

I don't care what you do with it.

In terms of your overuse of salt, do you like the food that he makes?

He perpetually asks if it's oversalted, and it 90% of the time it is.

Okay, so you've got to cut back on your salt use.

I don't care.

You can use whatever junk salt you want when you're cooking or whatever else, but you've got to invest in a good finishing salt.

That's where you're going to be happy because you take some of that Malden salt and you put it on top at the last minute, all of a sudden you get a delightful crunch, beautiful flavor, and also it's extra salty for you and she doesn't have to deal with it.

This is the sound of a gabble.

Thank you.

Mr.

Roof, ladies and gentlemen.

Let's welcome Craig and Stephanie to the stage.

Craig and Stephanie, please.

Hi, Craig and Stephanie.

Oh, it's Stephanie.

I know you.

In fact, I've known you for years.

It's true.

Jesse Thorne, Stephanie, is from a little town called Brookline, Massachusetts.

Oh, wow.

You know what?

Patrick went to middle school with me.

There's a lot of dudes that went to middle school with me in the front row, so

I can go real deep into this contest.

Stephanie is from Massachusetts, which is one of the five and only five states in New England.

She went to Brookline High School.

I'm sorry, New England is?

It's a region in the northeastern United States.

She went to Brookline High School.

I spoke at her high school graduation.

Brothers.

Brothers, that's right.

You were already an adult at that point.

And you had moved to Brooklyn, and then we hired you to

help with some research on my book and do some other stuff.

And you were an amazing helper, and we're like, you're going to go very far.

And in fact, you went all the way across the country to San Francisco.

And now, what do you do?

Now, I have a food and travel company called Traveling Spoon.

Say, say it again?

A food and travel company called Traveling Spoon.

Hang on, we're going to get this plug in.

We've got to get this plug in because we very rarely allow buzz marketing.

I've got to make up for this Morton's brand drop that I just did.

You have a food and travel company, and it is called

Traveling Spoon.

Traveling Spoon.

You have some thoughts about that iodized table salt?

I really liked your plug for Malden.

It is a great, great, I mean, I use all the salts, all salts.

I use Malden, I use kosher salt, iodized table salt.

Yeah, but Malden's the best.

Bath salt.

All right.

Craig, you did not go to my high school.

You're a stranger to me.

I'm worried about it.

What's your problem with my old friend Stephanie?

Yeah.

Who's basically my daughter?

Yeah.

She's a butter monster

She's a butter monster go on Stephanie

Stephanie butters the crust of her pizza

I

have

I have never heard of such a thing

You know there's already cheese on it.

Not on the crust bits.

Not on the crust bits?

Yeah, what?

Okay.

I am amazed.

Like, I grew up in a home, my father is a glutton.

And his parents

were from Kansas,

from Kansas, the state of Kansas.

Sure.

And

later Kansas City, Missouri.

And like, the astonishing arrays of things that I've seen butter put on cannot be overstated.

and she has found a new wrinkle.

I've put a pat of butter on a slice of steak, so you have a more open, you have a more receptive ear in mine.

Hold on.

You think there's not butter on steak in my house?

I used to make fun of my dad for putting butter on steak, then I put some butter on some steak.

You may find the same thing will happen with pizza.

Tell me, tell me about

Tell me about buttering the crust of pizza.

When did you discover it?

What's the process?

What's the butter?

Okay,

so I didn't realize that this was like a thing that might be frowned upon because I just grew up in a household where pizza was buttered.

My mom only found out.

This is generational.

I only found out, first of all, any kind of weird sociological experiment that you can get children to believe it's normal to put buttercups.

I forgot that you grew up in that weird geodesic dome in Brookline.

Strange things happen there.

I just want to say, first of all, that I didn't know that Craig had submitted this case, and I only learned about it on Christmas morning.

And

then I proceeded to ask, do a little research, and figure out where this came from.

And I learned that not only did my mom butter pizza, which is why I sort of grew up thinking that that was a thing.

I guess it's not a thing,

but my grandfather also buttered his pizza.

I just learned this a couple of weeks ago.

And so did your great-grandfather.

So that great-grandfather's name?

President William Howard Taft.

We get it.

You come from a line of deviance, but

it's just like buttering bread.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, it's just a so when you so when you sit down to a to a pizza, do you just go all the way around the pizza first?

Or do you take one slice, do it one at a time, and then put two tablespoons of salt on top as well?

I have to say,

do you ever just go to Little Caesars and get the butter stuffed crust?

I will say that I prefer to eat pizza at home because there's more readily.

Because you're tired of the stairs.

I really don't care that.

Tired of all those people staring at you, wondering what you're doing?

I think it'll catch on one day.

No, I mean, I am a little, I don't typically ask for butter at restaurants, so it's more of a home

thing.

But that's what I'm saying.

Like, when you get the pizza home.

Yeah, so then I'll mostly eat most of the pizza, and then when it gets to the crust bit, I'll use.

Oh, like it's a leftover roll.

Like a leftover roll.

I see no problem with this great.

Why are you opposed to this?

The history of deviancy is what I'm concerned about.

We now have a child, and I don't want my son to grow up to be a pizza butterer.

Craig,

I got a message.

We've had two sets of young couples with young kids.

How old is your son?

He just turned one.

Congratulations.

You may have seen seen Matt and Alyssa up here earlier, worried that their child was going to turn into a cat lover.

You're worried about your child turning into a butter lover.

I'm going to tell you something.

Your children are going to become

their own thing no matter what.

You can't control this.

They're going to become horrible monsters that you don't recognize.

Or beautiful people that you don't recognize.

Or whatever, you know,

they're going to become their own person.

You can't stop these weird things from happening, especially if you're already married to a weirdo.

And frankly, I see nothing, you know, there's only one way I can know for sure.

Is there any pizza and butter in the house?

Is there anyone possibly?

Wait, aren't you Brian Fernandez, the producer of Jordan Jesse Goe?

What a coincidence you were backstage with this pizza.

All right, Stephanie,

come over here so you can use the benefit of this flat surface and show me what you do.

I'm just going to examine the butter for a second.

A great choice.

This is Carrie Gold, my preferred butter choice.

Great butter lever here.

It's yellower than other butters.

You could just start by, you know, having a couple of bites of pizza.

Well,

I want to see, so what you would do is you would eat the pizza and then finish the crust.

Yeah, sometimes.

Sometimes, you know, the butter might migrate a little bit to the pizza part.

That's where I'm interested in, that Twilight Zone.

All right, hang on.

Hold this microphone and narrate what I'm doing.

Judge Hodgman is currently ripping the pizza very masterfully

into a small paste.

Okay, now I have a perfect Twilight Zone piece of pizza.

There's some cheese in the bottom, and it slowly transitions into pure crust.

Show me how much butter you put on that.

You might have just a show me how much butter you put on that!

He's buttering the pizza.

More.

All right, here I go.

I'm going to bite from this end to get all of the different flavors, plus butter.

It helps that it's stone cold.

I like it.

I ruined Stephanie's favor.

Brian,

give that pizza to Daniel and Rebecca.

They need it

as a gift from the court.

The gentleman in the robes have sent this to you.

Rebecca, how's it going now?

What's the number?

Ten!

Either we have really done our job or you know showpersonship and you knew what to say.

But either way, I thank you guys for sharing this date together with us.

And thank you very much for your kind attention, everybody.

Thank you, Jesse Corn, Jennifer Marmoris.

Thank you, Mr.

Sketchfest.

Daniel and Rebecca, all of our litigans.

Have a wonderful night and a great sketchfest.

That is all.

Our special thanks to Toon Yards for joining us in San Francisco and for sharing their dispute with us.

They've got a new album coming out this Friday, January 19th.

It's called I Can Feel You Creep Into My Private Life.

It's on 4AD Records.

They're also going on tour in February and March.

You don't want to miss them.

If they're in your town, for your dates and more info on the new album, visit tune-yards.com.

That's tune-yards.com.

I will say this about seeing Toon Yards live in person.

It is incredible to see Merrill perform.

My producer on Bullseye, whose name is Kevin Ferguson, is a musician, and he's also kind of a grumpus.

And he recently declared that looping pedals on vocals should be taken away from all musical performers except for Meryl Garbis of Toon Yards, because it's so amazing to watch her use them.

This case, Statue ARF Limitations, was named by Eric Ray.

If you want to name a future case for the Judge John Hodgman podcast, just like us on Facebook.

That's where we put our calls for submissions.

Our huge thanks to the staff at the Castro Theater and to our pals at SF Sketchfest: Megan Hall, Heather Gallagher, Dave Owens, Janet Varney, Cole Stratton, just to name a few.

SF Sketchfest is still running now.

Visit sfsketchfest.com for the schedule and ticket links.

I will recommend to San Franciscans that they take some time this weekend to go see my beautiful wife Teresa and her amazing co-host Biz Ellis do their smash hit show One Bad Mother.

And I'll also say friends of Judge John Hodgman, the Kasperhauser Comedy Group are performing, I believe it's the last weekend of the festival, and that is always the highlight of SF Sketchfest, the best sketch comedy group in the world.

This show was produced by Jennifer Marmer with help from Brian Fernandez, and that's about it.

We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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