Live From the London Podcast Festival

Welcome to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week's episode was recorded live in London, England, at the London Podcast Festival at King's Place with special musical guest, Emmy the Great.

Let's go to the stage.

Tonight's case, pleading the fifth.

Will is the fourth in a series of men in his family with the same name, and he wants to keep the tradition going, making his potential future child the fifth.

Jess says this practice is patriarchal.

She'd rather not follow it.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.

You all may be seated.

You stay.

I've known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast.

You smile like Garyan and fight like Tig, and there's some of Kevin in you, else you would not wear that cloak.

But Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you.

I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year.

Weird dads are such thundering great fools, even the sort who come along once in a thousand years.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear them in.

Please raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

Or whatever.

I'm not comfortable with that.

Just

say I do.

I do.

Okay, good.

I'm in charge here.

John's in the chat.

I'll check with John.

There's a chain of command

in fake internet laws.

Just, I'd like it to be none.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he himself is an emotionally stunted, afraid of conflict only child?

I do.

I do.

It was really tense there, what you were going to say.

You really played that pause well.

I like it.

Good.

Will and Jessica, you may be seated.

For an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, can you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom?

Will, you are brought here against your will, so to speak, in order to defend your life choices.

So you get to choose first whether you guess

or Jessica guesses.

Which is it going to be, Will?

Well, I think strategically, it's always best to guess second.

So I'll guess second.

Right.

And also, I read my script wrong, Jessica.

Actually, you get to decide.

I apologize.

Jessica, you were brought here against your will, by your will.

So therefore,

you get to choose first.

Will you guess first or will you guess second?

I will guess second.

Classic, if cowardly move.

All right.

Will, go ahead.

What is your guess?

I have no idea, so I'm going to guess

I've got five on it by the loomies.

It's a great guess.

I would have said I got five on it by the loonies Bay Ballas remix, but.

All right, that's a guess.

We'll put that in the guess book.

Now, Jessica, what is your guess?

I guess five on it by the Loonies Bay Ballas remix.

Yeah.

It's better.

It's got Drew Down on it.

Another guess?

Really?

You're not the nerds I thought you were.

Very good.

Someone in the audience must know.

Oh, but which book?

Who said it?

Feast for Crows.

That's right.

The most overlooked.

That quote was from George R.

R.

Martin's A Feast for Crows.

Thus, all guesses are wrong.

So now we have to hear this dumb case.

So what's the problem?

Jessica,

you are brought here against your will by your will, as I had said before.

Why are you doing this, Will?

What is the issue?

Well, I come from a long line of Wills.

I'm, in fact, Will IV.

And that's your whole name, Will IV?

Well, I have a secret last name, so.

Oh, really?

Because you belong to an international global conspiracy of some kind?

A hidden secret society society last name?

His mother will cry if she ever hears this.

Oh, you're hiding your identity.

I'm hiding my identity, or at least the middle part of my identity.

So what, if you were to use an identity-concealing pseudonym, what would you say your whole name is?

Well, there was a president in the United States that has had four sons with his name.

So I'm going to go with William Howard Taft.

And

you're William Howard Taft IV?

That's right.

I'll go with William Howard.

If only I had Son of Taft in my fake courtroom.

There's the fifth out there right now.

I liked Son of Taft.

I liked Taft Goes to Africa better.

Those were some fun comedy films featuring ex-president Howard Taft traveling the world, getting into scrapes while stuck in his bathtub the entire time.

Directed by legendary photographer Gordon Parks.

So, Jessica, William Howard Taft IV is, you are married to him?

I am.

You are, I see.

And you do not have a child now?

No.

You would like to have one in the future.

In the future.

And he would like to name that child William Howard Taft V.

And you say, no way.

No, Jose.

No, okay.

Now you're skipping right over way straight into Jose.

Are you saying we can't name it Jose?

I'd be better than...

By the way, your accents are beautiful.

What part of England are you from?

Cambridge.

Cambridge, England.

You're studying there.

Are you a professor's there?

What?

I'm a post-doctoral fellow there.

A post-doctoral fellow in what?

Medicine.

Guys.

Jessica, have you met William Howard Taft IV?

Does his story change every time he comes home?

It's always science.

This week, it's podiatry.

It's fine.

We're trying to cure tuberculosis again.

So

it's science and medicine.

She's right.

She's right.

What happened to us curing it the last time?

Yeah, that was kind of peevish.

Yeah.

Well, there's still an

extra coming out there.

It's coming back, kind of like those movie sequels.

Have you heard my cough, by the way?

I haven't.

You've got a cough?

Later on, I'd like to get a consultation if you don't.

Absolutely.

And Jessica, what do you do up there in Cambridge?

I work in London.

I'm a consultant.

Excuse me.

A consultant.

And that's all you're going to say.

Understood.

She's an assassin.

And you, and where are you from originally?

Middle of Nowhere, Illinois.

That's a great, great town.

For

Illinois, home of the pretzels.

Home of the pretzels?

Mm-hmm.

Let the record reflect that she did a gang sign indicating pretzels.

You can eat us, but you can't beat us.

And that's the sports team at Middle of Nowhere High?

Yes, sir.

Okay, I get it.

And where are you from originally?

I'm from just outside of Chicago, also from Millennium.

Towns have names, you know.

You can just say them.

I'm from Elmhurst.

Elmhurst, all right?

Elmhurst.

Elmhurst.

Okay, got it.

Good.

Well, welcome here.

We're foreigners, all of us together.

Yes.

So, anyway, but you have a very fancy-sounding name.

Why do you want to pass this down?

It's very pretentious.

Well, thank you.

I like

Dr.

William Howard Taft IV.

That's me.

Yeah,

I like the legacy of it.

I like knowing my family history.

I don't know anything about any of my and her family history counts for nothing.

Well, I just don't know it, and it's hard to know it.

I'm bad with names.

I'm really bad with names.

If only there was some way to find out,

like you could do research or something.

That's true.

Well, I know up to.

He's no scientist, ma'am.

Jessica, what if your child is not a William Howard, or what if it's a Wilhelmina Howard?

Oh, I don't think we would need to go Wilhelmina Howard, I see.

Oh, okay.

So you're sexist in all kinds of ways.

I suppose.

I don't know how to answer that.

If it's a daughter, she doesn't deserve your lands and titles.

And therefore, she's just something to be married off to another great house outside Illinois, outside Chicago.

I didn't really think about it that way.

No, clearly, you didn't.

I think Jessica thought about it that way.

If you were to have a baby on this stage right now, first of all, that would be great.

Congratulations.

What name would you choose, Jessica?

What would you like it to be named?

Jessica or Jessico?

I'm not sure that I have a particular name, but I would hope that whatever child we had shared names from both sides of our family or our shared history together.

Right, but because you won't reveal your last names

because you're afraid of your mother and you're a hired killer,

it's very hard for me to rule in your favor because I don't know what the name might be going forward.

Did you take Dr.

Taft's name in your marriage?

I did not.

You did not.

And what is your last name?

James.

Oh, really?

I think Jessica James is a pretty good name.

That is one of, it's a great alias, let me tell you.

Yeah, I'm an insurance agent from Skokie.

Go pretzels.

It's plausible, but it doesn't attract attention.

So, but I don't know what the last names combined would be, right?

Can you whisper it to me?

I'm not going to reveal your last names if you whisper your actual last names.

I think I've heard everything I need in order to make my decision.

I'm retiring to my secret chambers.

I'll be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise metaphorically as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

I think the obvious question here, Jess, is how many of you killed?

Why would you count?

Fair point.

As long as it keeps working out for you.

Will, do you think that you're a sexist?

Historically, no, but my perspective is changing quickly.

Is your goal here to connect your child's name with, you know, four generations back in your name and thus the legacy of American slavery?

Man, I gotta say no.

Will.

Will, why am I picking on you so much?

You seem like a nice man.

He is a pretty nice man, other than this.

We'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all of this.

Please rise metaphorically as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

You may metaphorically be seated.

We've had...

baby naming disputes in this courtroom before, and it is challenging in these days and ages when we realize that women are whole human beings

who deserve recognition and heritage of their own,

to figure out how to combine last names, say when a child is born, please don't hold hands.

Please, please, you don't know what I'm going to rule yet.

In fact, you may hold hands because that may be the last time.

It may get harsh in here.

You never know.

And it is challenging to rule not only on the rightness of naming a boy child after the father and leaving poor mom out in the cold forever, for all of history.

Do you have any siblings?

I do.

You do?

Okay, well, then they'll carry it on, I guess.

But leaving your wife in the cold forever.

But it's also challenging because you have to know whether or not the name is going to be aesthetically pleasing going forward.

And that was not information I had to the very end of this case.

Obviously, I am not going to allow you to do what you want to do, sir.

I apologize to you and all of the Howard Tafts going back

many,

many generations.

But it is time to merge.

Now that you have merged your life with Jessica's, it is time to appreciate that you're going to be merging other things.

And out of that genetic stew will come a new human being that shares parts of you both in body and in name.

Now, one of the great solutions that people often use, if you want the child to have one last name, is you either make up a last name or you choose one of them to have a last name, and then the other one's last name becomes their first name.

And with that in mind, and we'll beep this out for the podcast, I hereby name your child, boy or girl,

Hodgman,

first of his or her name.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Please rise

as the litigants exit the courtroom.

Thank you so much, Will and Jess.

Will and Jess, ladies and gentlemen.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at maximumfund.org, and they are all your favorites.

If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic.

Just go to maximumfund.org/slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

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It's true.

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It's an immensely useful piece of kitchen toolery.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

What's up next, Jesse?

Well, I thought we might do some music.

What do you think about that?

I think that would be wonderful.

An incredible musical guest.

We do.

We do.

You saw her over the summer touring with Beth Orton.

You've heard her on the Mystery Show podcast.

Let's hear it for our musical guest this evening, Emmy the Great.

Oh no,

everything's moving so close.

Starting to lose my social

hey, Lo.

I see you sometimes when I'm in so ho.

Starting to lose my social.

Hey, Lo,

I'm starting to lose my social.

And I like you, I like you, but you're just so cold.

The opposite of volcano, volcano.

I saw you today when I was in Soho.

You held me and then you

let go, you let go.

I'm starting to lose my social

social halo

Oh no, I see you and then I say hello.

You and your friends, you turn back so slow.

I think that you might be

laughing at me.

And I like you,

I like you, but you're just so cold.

The opposite of volcano, volcano.

And I saw you today when I was in so hope.

You held me, and then you,

you let go, you let go.

And all of your friends there,

they called me Yoko.

Now I like you, I like you, but you're just so cold.

The opposite of volcano, volcano

I saw you today when I was in Sovo.

You held me and then you

let go, you let go.

I'm starting to lose my social

social hello

social

social hello

social

social hello

social hello

Emmy the Great, ladies and gentlemen.

We'll hear more from her later on this evening.

It's right there in the name.

Great.

Oh, that's what that means.

Yeah.

It's also her given name.

Okay.

Judgment.

Here's what I'm thinking.

I had an idea.

I feel like we came all the way here

from the United States.

Yes, you can tell from my hat.

God's United States of America.

Yes.

And if we only do one more case tonight, I feel like we won't have spread enough justice across this great land.

Yes.

We need to fit more justice in.

We need to pack it in.

How are we going to do that?

Here's my idea, Judge.

I say we take 10 minutes right now and see if we can knock out three cases in succession.

That's only three minutes and 20 seconds per case.

Do you think you can do it?

No.

Audience, do you think Judge Hodgman can judge three cases in 10 minutes?

I can fly.

Thank you for bringing me back to life.

Yes, let's get it going.

Let's get some litigants out here and we'll see if I can get finally some British people to fight for my pleasure.

Who's first, Jesse?

Our first case, Colin.

No, it's fine.

You're doing great, guys.

Colin and Jessica.

Colin and Jessica.

Hello, Colin.

Hello, Jessica.

Hello.

Hello.

I'm sorry that you came out so soon.

I'm sorry.

Someone opened the door and I went for it.

No, I'm sorry.

I truly, I'm the one who's sorry, and I apologize.

That should never have happened.

Colin, did you think that was an exit?

Were you making a break for it?

Yeah.

But there's a possibility, yeah.

It's so nice to have you here.

Where do you live here in London or where?

We live just north of Brighton, which is a city on the coast.

Oh, very nice.

And you made it, you journeyed in here?

Yes.

But you're not the farthest to journey today.

Some people just came into the room from Germany, right?

Latecomers?

Germans?

Yay.

There they are.

All right, well done.

Colin and Jessica.

Way to be late, by the way.

Yeah.

Not your usual reputation.

And Jessica, what is your relationship to Colin?

I'm his wife.

You're his wife.

And what is the nature of your dispute?

As the person who brought the case,

Jess is from the United States,

born, raised, and educated.

I'm from the UK.

Whenever we travel anywhere, including the United States, including her hometown, if someone asks where we're from, she will jump in very quickly and say, we're both from the UK.

We're from the UK.

No.

And

that.

Jessica.

You guys are from the UK?

I thought you were from Connecticut.

She's actually from rural Pennsylvania.

Where are you from, Jessica?

I'm from a tiny village called Ligonier, which is just outside of Pittsburgh.

Wait a minute.

Yeah, I've been to Pittsburgh, and yins don't talk like those guys talk.

Ghost Steelers.

Let the record show that Jessica said almost inaudibly, Ghost Steelers.

That's the traditional way to say ghost Steelers.

That's some real football spirit there for me, Jessica.

And not only have you lost your Pittsburgh accent, if you ever had one,

but you seem to be, I don't want to say, affecting, something of

a non-American accent.

We get a real Madonna situation going on here.

Is that fair to say?

I think it's fair to say that I've adapted to my environment.

This is weird and uncanny.

Why are you doing this?

How long have you been living here?

Nearly 15 years.

Nearly 15 years.

Well, that's almost as old as the country itself.

So I guess.

And Colin, how long have you been married?

Great.

Yeah.

All right, I find you, Jessica.

Colin, you have to learn how long you've been married.

Jessica,

you know,

I urge you to seek authenticity within yourself.

There is beauty in western Pennsylvania, and there's a kind of harsh guttural beauty in the Pittsburgh accent.

If you want to go neutral, that's fine.

You're going to be facing challenges in life if you don't acknowledge who you are.

You can talk whatever funny way you want to.

Just don't say you're from the UK.

You were born in Pennsylvania.

Judge Ed Hodgman rules.

Colin and Jessica are next one against Dave and Felix.

Dave

and Felix.

Please, you may be seated.

We have to move very swiftly here because

we want to make sure we meet out as much justice as possible.

Midge is bringing beer to the stage.

Dave or Felix, which one of you is going to give me a sip of your beer?

Cover for me, Jesse.

Judge Hodgman's drinking beers.

I'm not 100% sure what the premise of this bid is.

Felix.

I find in favor of Felix.

Colder beer.

That's called trial by lager.

I have a feeling you're correct, Felix.

Let's see what happens when you tell me things.

Felix, what's the nature of the dispute?

So the nature of the dispute is my brother believes that we should abandon the traditional family Christmas in favor of moving to Leeds, where he lives.

I see.

To rather than the rest of the family joining us, just

me, Dave, our partners, and some of Dave's friends.

You're trying to rewrite Christmas, Dave.

Yes.

Yeah, similar to a recent podcast judgment in which you expounded upon

how lovely it was to, once you reached your mid-twenties,

strike out and have your own incredible, wonderful time.

Yes, what podcast?

Build at building your own traditions.

I think

serial

to an American holiday, Thanksgiving.

Oh, I see.

But this is Christmas, Dave.

It is.

You're trying to bring the precedent of the Judge Sean Hodgman Court, where I said it's okay to blow off Thanksgiving because it's stupid and made up.

I think they're analogous to this situation.

You are taking it up a notch.

Perhaps, but my family

tarrying the people invited are.

I gotta be careful here, haven't I?

No, you don't.

But I already speak to myself, I'm going on record.

Trey Wilson, hi, mum.

My family are monsters.

Hi, mum.

They're terrible.

Felix, do you concur or disagree?

I love my family, especially.

Mother, hi, thank you.

You're lovely.

But they are somewhat confrontational at times.

What I would say is that...

What's an example?

So, for example, and this occurred to me earlier this evening, my mother fell out with her mother about 20 years ago.

They've not spoken since, because my mother didn't invite her to Christmas one year.

So it's a family tradition that you're trying to get.

Somewhat, yeah,

I see.

And yet you want to include Felix, even though you say your family are monsters.

Felix is obviously not a monster even though he looks like a young vampire.

I love my brother and his wife very dearly.

I would very much like for them to join me this year.

I think we can have a genuine good time.

And it would be just

you and your partner.

There will be some wayward souls who live in the same city as me who will join us.

Wandering ghosts and

family to join.

Oh, okay.

Marley and Marley, the Marley brothers, they might turn up.

Okay, good.

And do you see this as an ongoing thing or a one-off?

We'll see how it goes.

Do you anticipate, Felix, that your mother will be very upset

should you both break off and celebrate Christmas separately and leads this Christmas?

Ultimately, I will at some point be going to see her, whether it's on Christmas Day or otherwise.

Obviously, having a wife.

It's sort of accepted that we rotate Christmases, that sort of thing.

But she's not going to stop talking to you for 20 years, which is obviously what Dave wants.

As long as she doesn't hear this podcast, I think I'm probably fine.

Oh, Oh, I'm going to send, I'm going to send her an LP of this podcast.

Dave, I order you to have a separate Christmas to give it a try.

Felix, I order you to go at least one year to see what it's like, the transgression against one's mother.

You have to throw your parents out of the house sometime.

And here is a shilling.

Go buy a big fat goose.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Thank you so much.

Thanks, Kevin.

Dave and Felix, ladies and gentlemen.

Sorry, mom.

You know, we've been doing My Brother, My Brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened.

And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah.

You don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and Me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined!

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Our final dispute on stage from QI and the hit podcast No Such Thing as a Fish.

Here with a dispute, please welcome Dan Schreiber and Anna Tashinsky.

Dan and Anna, what a pleasure to have you here.

We have one minute and 24 seconds on the clock.

No Such Thing as a Fish is one of my very favorite podcasts, and it's a a real I've met you before Dan.

We're old friends.

We're practically brothers like Dave and Felix and I look forward to seeing you at Christmas.

Anna I've never met you before and it's a pleasure to see you in person but let's get to the dispute.

What is the problem Anna?

The problem is that we present a factual podcast that people actually listen to.

Buzz marketing your podcast on my podcast.

Yeah, that's the reason we're here.

We're doing a show tomorrow, a few tickets.

No.

And every week Dan has to provide us with one fact

to present on the podcast and I keep having to reject his facts on the grounds that they're not interesting and they're not facts.

Yeah.

And I argue that they are.

Well,

you and I both know that non-facts are usually more interesting than facts.

Yeah, but do you dispute?

I mean, you're disputing the factuality of what he is asserting.

Is that correct?

I'm disputing about 17 things about it, but let me give you an example.

So one fact that Dan's presented for consideration is that the real reason the Titanic sank is not that it hid an iceberg, but that so many time travellers visited it at the same time that the weight of them all pushed it underwater.

Yeah.

But

I'm dealing with.

Let me qualify this slightly, John.

It's a theory that that is the reason that the Titanic sank.

So I say my fact is there is a theory that the real reason the Titanic sank is because of time travelers.

Is it a theory that came from your brain?

No, but someone else's brain.

Yeah, but definitely no more than one other person believes in it.

One other person?

That's an acknowledgement that you believe it.

You see, secretly, I think.

Well, that's an issue.

Now, do you...

Is your problem with him that he puts forward these facts or believes?

No, my problem is that I think it's very dangerous for us to be spreading these facts.

You know, we have at least 10 listeners, and if they'll only, you know, if Donald Trump has taught us anything, it's that people hear tiny little random bits of stuff that they half remember and then cling to them for life.

Then I think they'll half remember what Dan said and then think it was the truth and then go away with these insane convictions.

Can you understand that in our country we've given up on facts?

I should move to America.

This is clearly where I'd be taken in.

I tried another time traveler fact for our show, which is that in Britain, according to some conspiracy theorists, the national lottery actually hires specific members of staff to stop time travelers from winning the lotto.

And that was rejected as well.

And why did you reject that?

I just think, don't give these people air time.

Dan, I want to talk to you more about that.

What's going on?

There's this special branch of the lottery, time travel.

Special branch of the lottery.

How do they stop them?

They have time travel detection devices and then they murder them?

I think.

Or do they go back in time and kill them as babies?

Yeah, I haven't actually gone further than the headline of that fact.

It might be the case that if you do actually win the lottery, they go to your house and they say, ah, clearly a time traveler, no money for you.

And then, yeah.

Well, that's just a scam.

But the Titanic, you're talking, you're saying that tourist time travelers from the future are going back to the Titanic to check it out because in history it sank, but they are paradoxically causing it to sink.

Exactly.

And how much sense does that make as well?

It's just like what happened with the Hindenburg.

Yes, right, yeah, same thing.

So I questioned Dan on this exact logical paradox at one point and said, how is it possible that they sank it if they were going back to see the moment that it sank?

And Dan said, oh no, the first time it sank because it hit an iceberg, iceberg, but then all the times after that,

it was because the time travelers were visiting it.

It's a theory of many worlds.

Yeah,

that is not a fact.

It is a conspiracy theory.

But it's a fact that it's a conspiracy theory.

It's a fact.

But

is it a well-worn conspiracy theory or one lone nut?

Well, I'm trying to help this guy out and

spread his message.

Did you end up discussing this on the podcast?

No.

No.

No.

He's tried.

We cut it out.

Right.

Well, I am going to be a guest on the podcast this Monday, and that's the fact that I'm going to bring.

So I look forward to discussing it then.

I find in favor of Dan, just because it's a great theory.

Sorry, Anna.

Judge Hud Hodgman.

Dan and Anna, ladies and gentlemen.

You did my homework for me.

Thank you.

Judge Hodgerman, I...

Look, I can only speak for myself, but I would love to hear some more music.

I also would love to hear some more music.

Unfortunately, we already heard one song.

That's all there is.

Hold on, Judge Hodgman.

What?

You're saying there's more music in the world than one song?

I'm just spitballing here, but what if there was a second song?

Well, I'd have to see it to believe it.

Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome back to the stage, Emmy the Great.

The Phoenix is headed west, cross-country, Nebraska, Nevada

The Phoenix has to leave its nest, but change is good for some

It is not good for others First there were five

and there were four

Leafy changed his colours, that's for sure.

River was your favorite, his eyes were aqua.

He's in our history now, like Cleopatra and you.

My screen grabbed Beauty Queen.

Type in something on the screen

like we were 17.

Like we were 17.

Like we were 17.

Like we were 17

When we first met we read bliss

Soon we were too old for this We thought that weight loss was survival We thought that vogue was French for Bible

Up on the wall We put them all Leafy changed his colours, that's for sure

River was your favorite, his eyes were aqua.

He's in our history now, like Cleopatra and you.

My screen grab beauty queen,

typing something out in green.

Like we were 17,

like we were 17,

like we were 17,

like we were 17.

River, rain, summer leaf, and liberty, river, rain, summer leaf,

and liberty, river, rain, summer, leaf,

and liberty, river, rain, summer, leaf,

and liberty, and you,

my screen grab beauty queen.

Are you working out your next life dream?

Like we were 17,

like we were 17,

like we were 17,

like we were 17,

like we were 17,

like we were 17,

like we were seventeen,

like we were seventeen.

Our thanks to the litigants for joining us and to Megan Hodgkiss for naming the case, Pleading the Fifth.

We also want to thank Emmy the Great for joining us in London.

You can find her music and tour dates at emythegreat.com.

Our producer on this episode was Jennifer Marmer.

She had help from Colin Anderson.

You can follow Judge Hodgman and me on Twitter at Hodgman and at Jesse Thorne.

Hashtag your tweets, hashtag JJ Ho, and like the Judge John Hodgman page on Facebook to talk about the show.

You can also check out the Max Fund subreddit at maximumfund.reddit.com.

Always a fun conversation about every Judge John Hodgman episode there.

I try and participate myself.

You can email us at hodgman at maximumfun.org about pretty much anything.

And to submit a case, no case is too big or too small.

We always need your cases.

Go to maximumfund.org/slash JJHO.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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