First Come, First Seat, Third Served

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm the bailiff.

Oh, what's wrong, Judge Hodgman?

I'm a little sick, Jesse.

Oh, I'm sorry, buddy.

I just want to pre-apologize to everyone for how froggy I sound and how stuffy I sound, and also for the sloshing because I'm sitting in a hot tub full of bone broth, restorative bone broth.

Did you ever listen to that one, This American Life that Ira hosted when he was sick, and literally just he got like 500 letters that were worried he was about to die.

Like, there's something about the combination of how much your voice is affected when you're sick,

plus the fact that you can't see the person, leads to some very serious conclusions.

Yeah, podcasting and radio are an intimate form.

And when you hear someone suffering, you feel they're suffering.

Just as when you hear someone chewing, you feel like throwing up.

I got so many letters when I was chewing salt

on that last one where I was chewing, I first ate some Macintosh apples with salt on them.

Yeah.

And then I just ate some salt.

Yeah.

And I'm like, I am doing this on purpose to gross you out.

That was clearly the joke.

I clearly gave a trigger warning, but people are still running going, How dare you do that?

It really doesn't matter.

I mean, it's like the cilantro of podcasting, chewing on a microphone.

That's right.

70% of people, it doesn't, they're not worried about it.

Right.

30% of people will murder you.

And 1% of them, their pee smells funny the next day.

We're clearing the docket this week on Judge Sean Hodgman.

Let's start with something from Jeff.

My wife and I have a long-standing dispute regarding the use of the expression an hour or two when describing one's estimated time of arrival.

She says it's unreasonable to give one time estimate and it's double in one phrase.

What a fun couple.

For her, saying an hour or two is different than saying a minute or two.

To me, it's no different than saying at 2 p.m., for example, that I'll be there between 3 and 4.

It simply gives a one-hour window of time in which I expect to arrive.

Given uncertainties in traffic and the length of the trip, a one-hour window seems reasonable to me.

I wish you to rule on whether or not the phrase is reasonable and helpful.

Interesting.

Well,

Jeff's wife does make an important point, which is that a minute or two is substantively different from an hour or two.

Yeah, it's 60 times less.

Right.

But I mean, it increases exponentially.

Then, to say a week or two or a year or two, the difference between the one year and the two years gets more and more dramatic as you go forward a decade or two, a century or two.

That's fair.

And clearly, a minute or two is a colloquial just way of saying, like, pretty soon.

Right.

But an hour or two, that's a pretty big difference.

Yeah.

And I guess it depends on where you live here in Los Angeles.

It's interesting because in Los Angeles, everything's an hour away, no matter how close close it is.

Well, to be specific, Judge Hodgman, in Los Angeles, everything is both 20 minutes and an hour away.

That's true.

So I think the phrase should be 20 minutes or an hour.

What is the tolerance for lateness in Los Angeles?

I mean, by the way, I'm in studio in Los Angeles with my friend Jesse Thorne.

It's always such a pleasure to look longingly into his beautiful eyes as we talk.

Trevor Burrus: It's sort of like a circuit court situation.

You're out here dealing with West Coast cases.

Yes, exactly so.

And I feel often when I come to Los Angeles, I schedule things

to see people and take meetings and catch up with friends and colleagues.

And I'm often having to be very careful to plan my day because it's tricky to get around L.A.

What is the tolerance for lateness in Los Angeles?

I have no tolerance for social interaction in general.

Okay.

So

I will go to extraordinary lengths to avoid avoid appointments of any kind.

I understand.

But look, I know in the entertainment business, if your call time is 7 a.m., you are expected there at 6.55 a.m.

Like there is no tolerance for lateness in that regard.

But

if you're having someone over for a wine and cheese mingle of an evening and you say 7 p.m.

How late is too late to arrive?

Well, I mean, then you're introducing more social variables variables there if you're talking about a mingle.

Yeah.

I think the tolerance for a mingle could be as much as 90 minutes.

90 minutes.

For a mingle, yes.

All right.

It's too long.

I'm not talk if you say 7 p.m.

sharp, if you're having a Game of Thrones party

and you've got that East Coast feed, got that sweet East Coast feed,

then I would say

like a general 20 minutes, 15, 20 minutes, given the variabilities in Los Angeles traffic.

Right.

But I think that that excuse,

I'm tossing that excuse out because it's 2017 and your telephone in your pocket will tell you exactly how long it's going to take you to get somewhere.

Barring catastrophe,

it will be correct within five minutes.

Incredibly consistently.

That's true.

So there's no reason to say I didn't know there was traffic.

As indeed, there is no reason to say an hour or two any longer.

From now on, look at your phone, Jeff,

see what its ETA says, and tell the other party, this is my ETA according to computors.

As our president, Donald Trump has pointed out, we live in the age of computer.

Yeah.

And that and an hour or two is simply too vague.

Okay, here is something from Casey.

I'm bringing this case against my husband, Jordan.

Jordan has a digital design type job.

Or a digital design type job.

Yeah, either way.

Is it that digital design type of job or is he actually designing digital type?

Well, when not at work, he spends a lot of time studying up on design and coding while sitting on the couch with his laptop.

My problem is that he also takes out the laptop when we're watching a show together.

When I complain about this, he argues, it doesn't make any difference.

We're still sitting next to each other with moving pictures in front of us.

What he is doing on another screen shouldn't matter.

I believe Jordan's attention to his laptop does take away from the experience of watching something together.

I ask the judge to order Jordan to put aside other screens if we plan to watch something as a couple.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, do you and your lovely wife, Teresa, watch TV shows or movies together at home?

Yes, I would say that especially since roughly November,

we watch exclusively seasons seven and eight of The Simpsons.

Okay, right.

That is a palliative for you?

Well, I won't go that far as a journalist.

However,

I will say that

I did watch that one episode where Albert Brooks is like a tech millionaire who builds a city.

And in the promo video of the city, you just see the camera panning across like a downtrodden American town.

And each business turns into a coffee house of some kind until finally it pans past a bum and the bum turns into a mailbox.

Gentrification.

Yeah.

It got a lot of laughs and comfort out of it.

Well, given that The Simpsons at this point,

that's not new programming you're watching and it is essentially visual Xanax.

Yeah.

It would not bother you if Teresa were using her phone or checking her So Schmidz or whatever while you were watching The Simpsons.

Yeah, it absolutely would.

It would bother you.

Yeah, it would very much bother me.

Really?

Yes.

Do you guys have a marital policy on second screening it?

We don't.

I don't think we require a policy.

It's just not something that we do.

I mean, like, not that we wouldn't check our phone if we got a text message or something, or not that we wouldn't

potentially, I guess, have a situation where we were, like, working together while something was on TV, although that's not really something we do as a couple.

like if there was some particular reason, you know, like say it was

late November and Teresa was working on our Christmas card list or something.

Right.

And that would be like a thing.

That would be the premise of our, like, oh, let's watch something while I work on this.

While I work on this.

Yeah.

Right.

Full laundry, whatever.

But what you're saying is, in a casual sense, if you guys sit down to watch something on television and you've both agreed to watch it, neither one of you will have a tablet or a phone open and constantly doing something else at the same time.

No, and in fact, at my house, that is just, we just avoid doing that in general.

Cut it, print it, take this podcast, overnight it to my wife.

That's how podcasts are delivered, right?

Yes, William Randolph first.

Arrange a screening of this podcast for my wife immediately, please.

We have a second screen problem in my household in a marital situation.

Really?

Yeah, absolutely.

Here's the thing:

Casey and Jordan.

I have a spouse who consistently

uses her second screen when I am trying to watch television.

And it is so prevalent that I have even ceased attempting to share TV shows with her

because

since our very first date, I just realized

one of our very first dates.

I said to her, and fans, longtime fans of the podcast will appreciate the significance of this, would you like to watch my favorite movie, The Third Man, with me?

And she said, no.

And to date, She has never seen it.

Oh, she's missing out.

It's a really great movie.

And I have accustomed to to myself, to the fact that she will be very, she really wants to sit and enjoy my company while watching television, but she needs to go down her rabbit holes because that is part of her mental recreation.

And I think she appreciates, as I have come to appreciate, that if she were to put that phone down and watch

something else, even if it's something she wants to watch, she would immediately fall fall asleep.

It is the only thing keeping her awake.

We all have our weird coping mechanisms in marriages, and it sounds as though Casey, your husband Jordan, enjoys your company, but whether for reasons of professional anxiety or simple relaxation,

doesn't want to put his eyes on whatever TV show you're watching.

I would say that so long as his doing work during your together screen time

not provoked by anxiety or obsessiveness, but rather meditative, quiet enjoyment of mutual company.

I don't have a problem with it.

I can't.

It would make my whole marriage a lie.

But if it is simply work obsessiveness, then I think you can say, please, please put that away.

I understand Casey's position because I feel like

when I'm watching television,

I've never been someone who watches television in the background.

I've never been someone to just put a show on that was on, that's, you know,

me neither.

Tommy Boy's on TBS.

I'll just put it on while I do chores around the house.

No.

That's what podcasts are for.

Yeah, exactly.

It's the wallpaper of culture.

Yeah.

And

I see watching film and television as like a fundamentally social activity, even if it's silent.

Yeah.

And so

the introduction of that outside element really.

I think in your

that you and Teresa presumably feel the same way,

that's perfect for your marriage.

It's real hard to, I've, I've almost completely given up on watching movies because the combination of my compulsion to do it with someone else, I've never been able to be the guy that either turns on the TV or goes to the movies by himself,

combined with my wife's propensity to fall asleep during things,

has completely scuttled our ability to do anything longer than 40 minutes.

Involving a screen.

We all work these things out in our marriages, but the reality is that when you're watching something together, it is a different,

it is already a compromised kind of togetherness.

It would be nice to be able to experience the third man with my wife, but I realize now that'll never happen.

By the way, I just remembered something.

I was on At Midnight,

the popular television comedy program featuring celebrity comedy writer Jordan Morris of Jordan Jesse Go.

Yes.

And I had a great time working with Jordan Morris, preparing for At Midnight

this week, now in the distant past, when you hear this.

You can still watch it on comedycentral.com.

Yes, it was the January 16th episode.

It was me, Eugene Merman, and Josie Long, the great Josie Long.

Three of of the most funny and delightful people on earth.

And

the hashtag war

was

make a book American

with the idea, like you take a classic piece of literature and you add or change a word in order to make it sort of stereotypically jingoistic American.

So instead of Slaughterhouse Five, it would be Waffle House Five.

Right.

That was the example that they gave.

And I came up with one that I knew would only delight the Judge Sean Hodgman listeners

and would mainly confuse

all of the viewers of At Midnight.

And I wasn't able to say it.

And so later after the break, I'll tell you what it was.

Great.

Let's take a quick break.

We'll be back in just a second on Judge John Hodgman.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at maximumfund.org, and they are all your favorites.

If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic.

Just go to maximumfund.org slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Let me ask you a question.

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Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Welcome back to Judge John Hodgman.

We're clearing the docket this week.

Here's something from Matt.

My coworker Richard and I have been having an argument for six months now with no end in sight.

He believes that the past tense of the verb to text is text.

Nope.

I believe the past tense is texted.

Correct.

For example, he'll say, my girlfriend text me an hour ago.

What?

Or you just text me that.

He harasses my coworkers and me if we use texted.

You're fired.

He concedes that the past tense of to text message is text messaged, but he likens texted to other verbs with unique past tenses and constantly says things like, I petted my dog if we say texted.

I want you to order him to use the correct form of tense in the future and stop harassing the rest of us for his weirdly held belief.

His way sounds wrong, and I'm unable to effectively work when he uses it.

I like that he's using something akin to a sexual harassment standard.

He believes that this has created a hostile workplace.

I agree.

This goes beyond mere sort of, I am a nerd, here is my system.

How do you phrase it when we talk about it on the show?

Oh, you know, it's about a nerd who's created a more rational system than the one the rest of us have accepted.

And that they're going to force on everybody else.

This goes beyond that.

I think this goes to the point of

a popular term in political parlance today that you may not comment on, which is gaslighting.

This is designed to drive people insane.

Because, unless, I mean, Richard isn't here to defend himself, but I could not even begin to guess or formulate a theory as to why text would be the more appropriate past tense of text.

Texted is a perfectly valid word.

There's no linguistic comparison to make that would make me feel like, oh yeah, I guess I see what he's saying.

This seems purely arbitrary.

And the fact that he is pedantically forcing it on his coworkers as though he knows better, I truly do think is harassment at this point.

It's like,

and you know what?

I did petted that dog.

I petted that dog a lot.

Who wouldn't pet a dog if they had the opportunity?

I petted a dog just recently.

Exactly.

I think that for the sake of clarity

and also the mental health of his coworkers, Richard ought to just knock it off.

I'm going to go ahead and suggest that maximumfun.org's own canine podcast, Can I Pet Your Dog,

should change its name to Can I Have Petted Your Dog?

Hey, guess what?

Max FunCon tickets on sale right now.

Max FunCon tickets on sale right now?

Yes.

Max Fun Con.

They are.

Yes, they are.

They're on.

They're on sale right now.

Now

I'm trying my best to do the train patter from the music man, your favorite musical that invented rap.

Yeah, the music man doesn't get the credit it deserves for having invented rap.

Oh, really?

Have you never used the internet?

Because there are lots of people on there.

The streets were blazing.

Man, when Ida Rose hit Harlem in 1976,

Max FunCon is like,

I've been explaining it to potential speakers and performers.

It's like a weekend that is a combination of a writer's retreat, a comedy festival, and a chill hang

for like-minded, creative folk.

Yes.

And it's real magical.

It has been a part of my life every year since you started it in 1906.

Yeah, that's true.

In the aftermath of the great San Francisco earthquake and fire.

When we all took refuge in the San Bernardino Mountains.

Exactly.

Very inconveniently.

Hundreds of miles south of San Francisco.

We had to ride donkeys, too.

I know, right?

We couldn't even find horses.

That was a long donkey ride.

Nowadays,

though, all the passes up the hills are paved.

Yep, that's true.

You get to drive your car.

Here's what you do.

You buy your tickets to Max FunCon.

Do you have someone to go with?

No, it's okay.

You're going to make friends.

It's the friendliest, funnest time you're going to have with all your fellow Max Fun listeners, Max Fun

talent, and then other incredible comedians and performers that you've never heard of before before, that'll be your best friends for the rest of your life.

You're going to love them.

That's how I met Josie Long.

It's how I met Chris Hardwick.

I met so many fantastic people in my life.

You're going to get that car that maybe you own or you rent or somehow you get your hands on some wheels.

You drive up a hill and the hill, this windy path into the mountains, and you see some of the most gorgeous scenery you've ever seen in your life.

And then you go through the town of Blue Jay.

You make a stop at Jensen's, my favorite grocery store on earth.

Maybe you get a tuna fish sandwich.

Past Rim of the World High School.

Rim of the World High School.

You drive by the Blue Jay Theater.

Maybe I'll go to the movies, you say.

No, I'm not going to go to the movies because I am going to go a little bit further to the shores of Lake Arrowhead to the UCLA Retreat Center, which is like the greatest beautiful adult summer campy compound of cabins and cafeterias and tennis courts and swim holes.

They're called pools, I guess.

And you're going to spend upwards of how many hours?

36 hours?

Yeah, 48-ish.

48-ish hours.

Two nights and three days of refreshment and fellowship, entertainment, and fun times with some of the nicest people on earth.

June 9th through 11th on the West Coast and September 1st through 3rd on the East Coast and the Poconos.

Yeah, if you do the East Coast thing, all the stuff I said isn't true.

Don't expect to see those things because the East Coast is

different charming grocery stores and different charming, beautiful situations.

But don't follow my directions or you'll get lost.

Tickets are available online at maxfuncon.com.

We've also got very, very fun day coming up in Chicago.

There will be tickets at the door.

At the door.

We have held back tickets at the door, general admission tickets at the door, so that if you did not get advanced seats, you can come line up before the thing starts at noon.

Come on.

And come see Judge John Hodgman Stop Podcasting Yourself, Jordan Jesse Go, The Flop House, Oh No Ross and Carrie.

Oh no, Ross and Carrey.

Oh no, Ross and Carey are going to be there.

The Magic Tavern, Chicago podcast, Friendshiping,

all kinds of amazing stuff at this show.

Ricky Carmona is coming.

Oh, Ricky Carmona?

Yeah, Ricky Carmona is going to be there.

Chicago's own.

Oh,

you know, Ricardo is making the trip.

What do you do?

This is like a Max FunCon compressed into a single very, very fun day.

And it's going to be so much fun in the beautiful Thalia Theater compound.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All that information at maximumfun.org or your Max FunCon tickets at maxfuncon.com.

Here's something from Emily.

No, wait, Jesse, yes.

You ready now for my hashtag ward?

Yeah.

The one that I held back from at midnight.

Nice.

All right.

There's no way that all this buildup is going to lead to an unsatisfying climax.

This is just for the listeners of Judge John Hodgman.

Once again, the concept is: make a book American.

The book is Marie Kondo's, The Everyday Magic of Locking Her Up.

Wow, what a complicated joke.

I know.

That's why I had to really drag it out.

Here's something from Emily.

My husband and I frequent a local restaurant where customers order their food, pay for it at the counter, then receive a number.

Staff members deliver the coffee and food to the table.

Oh, I remember remember this one from when I read it the first time.

Our understanding has always been that one should wait in line and get a table only after paying.

This way, customers will take tables in the order in which their food is likely to arrive.

We often see others arrive and take a table, sending one member of their group to wait in line and order.

It occasionally happens that due to such behavior, there are no tables available after we pay.

My husband has recently begun to wonder whether we should just follow the procedure that at least half of the patrons follow.

The restaurant does not have any signs about ordering before taking a table.

When we've mentioned the problem to staff, they've nodded sympathetically, but it's not clear whether this means they actually agree that our approach is the correct one or whether they just want to get on with their work.

When we order the kung pao chicken,

please help us decide.

Should we continue to sacrifice ourselves on the altar of our ethics or should we accept the flawed morality of our preferred brunch location?

I want to be able to say in life that I was never one of the monsters who held a table while someone else was ordering in such a situation.

I probably have done it.

I can't think of a time that I've done it.

I just don't want to throw a stone

at this glass brunch house

without acknowledging that I may have done this myself once out of sheer panic and anxiety that I won't be able to sit down, which is a panic and anxiety that I live with every moment of my life.

What if I can't sit down at some point?

But if I had ever done it, I would have felt and should have felt utter shame.

Now, I used to work in a place like this, Claire's Corner Copia in New Haven.

And

I can appreciate how being asked what the policy is with regard to sitting down after you've ordered the food or to save spaces might have left me confused or befuddled as a junior member of the staff.

Because what was I

doing?

It is not a question.

It's a request for enforcement of your.

As you ask that question, you are not asking for clarification.

You are asking for this person to enforce your rules that you've established inside your head.

Right.

So you're saying it's like passive-aggressive.

It's like, could you tell me if it's allowed for that guy to be sitting down there, even though he doesn't have his food yet?

Could you tell me, is that okay?

Yeah, you have to kind of open your body towards the person you're referring to and kind of lift your chin up so that you're kind of proclaiming it to the heavens, but yes.

But I do feel that a policy should be made clear in these sorts of situations.

And I'll tell you this, unless I'm grossly mistaken and my memory is terrible, which, by the way, it is, where am I?

Jim's Steaks on South Street,

which is my preferred cheese steak in Philadelphia,

has a similar system where you order your food.

And

there's very clear signage that you are not to sit down until you have collected your order.

And if you try to sit down before you collect your order, the Phillies fanatic will throw batteries at you.

Exactly.

You are going to get a face full of hot cheese whiz.

Philadelphia will not let you get away with that sin.

But there are few places that are as morally clear-cut and abusive as Philadelphia.

That's why their Constitution was originally held there.

And so what I would say is that you should follow first the policy of the establishment.

And you should say, not passive aggressively, but you should talk to the manager and say, hey, look, I don't know what's going on here.

Do you care whether people sit down?

Do you have a policy one way or the other?

And if they say, no, not really,

then you say, all right, well, I want you to know that it's sometimes uncomfortable to eat here because of that.

And then what you do is

you order your food and you look, you find someone who's saving a table and you just walk up and stand behind that person and shame them with your silence.

But don't you ever, don't you ever sit down.

Don't you ever sit down before you have your food.

That's just, that's just not the way it's done.

Disagree.

Really?

You say save a table?

You're a save a table guy?

I, of course, would obey a stated policy.

Right.

I'm not a rule breaker.

But in the absence of a clear policy, you would save a table.

It's just first come, first served.

Yeah, but it's not served yet.

But I've come.

I'm there.

First come, first seat, third served.

This is a situation in, this is a frequent problem in a popular hamburger chain here in the Southern California area that's famous in Southern California.

Oh, yeah.

And,

you know, when a table opens up, you just sit down.

Yeah, I think that's probably where I did it.

I've definitely done it there.

Yeah, it's hard because it's a different, and that's a famous hamburger chain

that is native to Southern California.

We won't buzz market it, but we'll call it Ingress and Egress.

Yeah.

Ingress and egress.

Hamburger style sandwiches.

Yeah, it is definitely part of that chain's culture that people grab seats.

All right.

You know what, Jesse?

Yeah, you're right.

Follow the policy if it's stated.

If you're unclear on the policy, ask for it.

If they don't have a policy,

then take a look around and see what the culture of the place is.

And if the culture of the place is, we just grab seats, man.

We just grab seats and watch the airplanes land here at LAX.

They're saying that more than, they said in the letter, more than half of the people are already just sitting down when a table becomes available.

So if more than half of the people are doing it, all they're trying to do here is prove that they're better people than those people.

It seems like chaos to me.

It seems like mean competitive chaos.

But

if it was mean, competitive chaos, the restaurant could put a sign-up.

Yeah, you're right.

You know what?

Don't go to that place anymore, you guys.

I order you to never go.

Here's something from Mike.

I live with my wife, a roommate, and a pair of cats.

We own the cats together.

The three?

Or the wife?

We don't know.

Right.

One of the cats, Gus, has long hair.

Occasionally, we send him to a groomer to get a wash and a sanitary shave.

Previously, my roommate had proposed the idea of shaving the cat, but my wife and I expressed our dislike of the idea.

The last time my roommate took him to the groomer, he made the executive decision to shave the cat completely with the exception of his head, legs, and tail.

Now he claims the cat is happier without the fur and wants to do it again in the future.

We feel that the cat is just as happy as before and now looks ridiculous.

My wife and I would like you to issue an injunction against shaving the cat in the future.

So I guess Mike must be saying, when he says we own the cats together, the three of them.

That is the three of them.

The two spouses and the roomie.

That's an unusual arrangement.

It is an unusual and I think basically untenable arrangement.

What you are experiencing, Mike, is a preview of the increasing friction, confusion, and frustration

of being a married couple living with a single weirdo in your house.

Yeah, this feline menage à trois is unsustainable.

Yeah, it's exactly so.

Yeah, the center will not hold on this one.

Yeah.

This isn't a three-legged stool.

This is a three-wheeled bicycle.

I was trying to think of a stool metaphor as well.

Yeah,

a three-legged stool is actually pretty stable.

Yeah, that's a really good stool.

Yeah.

And a three-wheeled bicycle is a great type of bicycle, too.

Let me tell you what.

John, I know that if I don't clarify that I think three-wheeled bicycles are a good idea, I'm going to get letters.

Oh, sure, you are.

You know that three-wheeled bicycle owners are also letter writers.

Oh, yes, that's right.

They got to have that extra wheel so they're stable on the way to the city council meeting at which they plan to be doing some citizen commenting.

You ever see those three-wheeled motorcycles?

Oh, yeah.

Those are dumb.

Yeah, they are.

They are dumb.

Come on, everybody.

On the other hand, sidecars are pretty neat.

Sidecars are fantastic.

Yeah.

But three-wheeled motorcycles, sometimes they have the two wheels in the front and the one wheel in the back.

Although, like a military three-wheeled motorcycle from like the 40s, that's really cool.

Oh, yeah.

Anything eventually.

Like you would use for deliveries.

Yeah.

But I mean, if you have gotten to that point in life where you're like, I'm retired, I have too much money and I want to hit the open road, but I'm too lazy to balance, stop it.

Yeah, that's true.

Okay, so a three-legged stool is a great metaphor for a stool, but a terrible plan for a marriage.

I don't know the circumstances of your life, and maybe you love your roommate, but already you are seeing.

that the life that you guys, you and your wife have chosen to build together is going to be destabilized by having a third party up in your domestic business shaving your cats.

Plus, I think that if you own your cats together, somehow you all pitched in.

Yeah.

You all pitched in on the adoption fee together equally.

I mean, we all know that those cats belong to someone.

Did they split it in thirds or split it in halves?

Right, exactly.

That's a key issue here as far as I'm concerned, because if the couple owns two-thirds of the cat,

that's a big difference from if the couple owns half the cat and the single guy or lady owns half the cat.

And plus, they didn't even produce a copy of their deed to the cat so that I could see their respective cat shares.

Yeah, plus, I want to see where

the boundaries of the cat are.

Yeah.

Look, I think anyone could say that making an executive decision to shave a cat to look like a poodle,

while hilarious

is a one-time only privilege.

If you truly are tri-owners of this cat,

then it has to be put to a vote, and man and wife form a voting block that Rumi will never break,

which is all the more reason why cats got to stay, Rumi's got to go.

You guys got to grow up.

I know probably you've got all kinds of reasons why you love each other and it's expensive in your city and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But married couples should live together and not have another person in the house all the time.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while.

Maybe you never listened, and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no.

It's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge Hodgman.

What?

I think we have some follow-up letters

from angry mail carriers.

Oh,

right.

And a person wrote in to say, hey, I have a little flag on my mailbox.

And I think it was a husband and wife.

Surprise, surprise.

And I believe that the wife would put in letters and parcels into the mailbox and raise the flag for the mail carrier to pick them up.

And the husband was like, don't do that.

You're causing more work.

And Nick was like, No, of course you should do that.

And I was like, No, well, I mean, I guess you can do it, but

be mindful of the work you leave for others.

Why, if you're going to go to town anyway, go visit the great Temple of Democracy, the post office, and do it your darn self.

I was on Nick's team.

I know, and a lot of other people were as well, so let's hear from them.

Well, a lot of them, first of all, I just want to say, tweeted or wrote to me personally.

I think Nick, maybe I agreed with him, cited the famous Postman's Creed.

Yeah.

Snow handle.

Snow nor rain nor gloom of night shall stay these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed round.

To let us know that that is an unofficial creed.

Not an official creed.

That has not been signed off on the Postmaster General.

You know what the official

U.S.

Post Office letter carrier's creed is?

What's that?

Going to get them out.

Going to get these letters out.

By the way, do you think that the Senate is gonna confirm the new Postmaster General H.

Ross Perot?

It's my best guess.

I like it.

It hasn't been announced yet.

All right.

So what did these letter carriers write in to say?

Well, we've got something from a letter carrier named Brian B.

in Minnesota.

He said, Please use the flags on your mailbox.

We encourage its use.

It adds little to no time to our day.

I enjoy seeing those flags up as much as I enjoy listening to the Judge John Hodgman podcast and many other related MaxFun podcasts on my mail route.

P.S., the USPS is not subsidized.

The postage from your letters and packages pays for our bills.

We receive zero tax dollars.

Well, I appreciate your correction and all the more appreciation to the U.S.

Postal Service for being unsubsidized.

I stand and salute you.

I love the post office so much.

I love the post office too.

I hate hate it when people complain about the post office.

I get so mad.

Because the people who work at the post office by my father's house in San Francisco, to this day, if I go in there, and I'm now 35 years old, so it's been 25 years.

They will be excited to see me.

They will ask me how my father is doing.

My father previously worked in nonprofit fundraising, so he did a lot of mailing.

And they will be exceptionally kind.

It's the same people that have been working there for literally decades.

And they're so lovely.

Shout out to Claire, the postmaster in Brooklyn, Maine, 04616 for Life.

She gives me a call whenever I got a package.

If my mom could legally marry, and

the issue is not that they're both women, but rather that both people would technically have to give consent.

But if my mom could legally force her mail carrier, Ping, to marry her, she'd do it in an instant.

Wow.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah.

I hope you understand that I was just expressing consideration for letter carriers by not giving them extra work if you don't have to.

But someone wrote in, and this isn't included in this docket because it came in just recently, to suggest that it was, and this would explain to

Nick Offerman's and my divide, that it's really a country mouse, city mouse thing, that in rural communities

it is much more convenient to send out mail from your mailbox than for me, a city mouse dandy walking up and down the street in his spats and a top hat since he was born.

I've always been strolling by letter boxes every day.

So I get it.

I appreciate that there's a cultural difference.

But

we did hear from Chris B.

in Baltimore, another letter carrier.

Yeah, we heard from a number of letter carriers.

And that makes me really happy that they're listening.

I couldn't agree more.

Have you ever been to the Mail Museum in Washington, D.C.?

No.

First of all, I recommend it.

The next time you're in, I mean, there are many wonderful museums in Washington, D.C.

Folk Art Museum is probably my number one.

Okay.

But

I think that mail museum is really worth an hour of your time.

You know, there's like airplanes and stuff, and all that's great.

But the best part is this postal dog that's been preserved for 100 years.

Still alive?

Yes.

Exactly.

Oh, my gosh.

Yeah, this postal dog is a real treasure.

He's taxidermied.

He is not actually still alive.

He's all dermed up.

And he like rode the postal rails for a decade, became a national celebrity and has appeared on stamps.

And he's just stuffed and mounted right there in that postal museum.

What was his name?

Envelope?

His name is Oni.

Oni the postal dog.

Oh.

And he's real cute, too.

I mean, he's a little grotesque because he's an aged taxidermy dog.

But you can tell that he was an adorable dog.

And was he just a mascot, a little pal?

Yeah.

Was there a function that he served?

Yeah, he gathered, so

he would travel from

post office to post office or postal distribution center to postal distribution center on the postal rail cars.

And like theoretically, he partly protected the mail.

Right.

But mostly he was just a mascot.

And he would get like a medal from each post office that he visited

until his collar

was completely festooned with medals.

Until it was so heavy that he couldn't move, and then they left him behind.

Yeah, well,

sorry you can't walk anymore.

Oni's.

Oni's real great.

There's a Max Fun fan who has an office in the museum, which is also a federal office building, I believe,

that looks out upon the museum floor, including Oni.

And she wrote to me one time when I talked about it on Jordan Jesse Go.

But it is a ton of fun.

I mean, like I said, this museum, this is a real 45-minute museum.

But it's free.

He's downgraded it from an hour.

Yeah, I mean, you can spend an hour in there.

Uh-huh.

Jivy, it depends on how you feel about postal airplanes.

I kind of feel good about it.

Yeah, okay, then there you go.

Then do an hour.

All right.

Now, you have...

You get to see one for skiing, and it's got a hook at the bottom.

There's one in there that's got a hook at the bottom so that it doesn't have to land to pick up the mail bags

from very rural locations.

It just hooks them with its hook.

I'm going to take a look at this museum next time in D.C.

Also, probably could hook a scallywag.

There was a scallywag around.

Probably.

That was also part of the unofficial postman's creed.

Got to get them scallywags.

Neither rain nor sleet nor scallywags.

Scalliwags shall stay these couriers from hooking some scallywags.

Well, you've delayed Chris B's letter long enough.

He says this is the one that exonerates me.

Although it's part of our job to do so, more and more people are having large and/or heavy packages picked up from their homes and shipped.

I agree in principle with your sentiment of be mindful of the work you leave to others.

Thank you, Chris.

In this case, if you have to mail a large or heavy package and you have the ability and time to do so, it is helpful to us if you take it to the post office.

It helps us stay on schedule and it makes our already physically demanding job a little easier.

Yeah, so the work that they do is pretty physically demanding.

Yeah.

Like, you know, I had to buy a pair of cowboy boots over the summer,

and there was no place around that sold them, so I did a bunch of mail-order ones, and I had to try them all on and then return all the ones that didn't fit.

Think I'm going to raise a flag on my mailbox for that?

Of course not.

I like that you're claiming that you had to buy a pair of cowboy boots over the summer.

Oh, you know why I had to buy a pair of cowboy boots.

Because you work in the entertainment industry, or is it because you're an oil prospect?

I was invited to a wedding where I was told I had to wear cowboy boots.

Oh, yeah, that wedding.

That wedding.

That was a celebrity friend of ours' wedding.

It was a really good time, and I'm glad I got those boots.

We're in show business.

We're in show business.

That's it for this week's episode of Judge John Hodgman.

Our producer is the great Jennifer Marmer.

Hi, Jen.

Thanks.

If you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, we want to hear about it.

Go to maximumfund.org/slash J-J-H-O.

Judge Hodgman, I have a quick question.

Yes.

Let's say I think I might have a case.

Ugh.

But I'm not sure.

I'm sort of on the fence.

Right.

What should I do?

Just self-censor, not send it in?

I don't know.

Like, think, ah, they probably don't want this.

Yeah, probably.

Is that what I should do?

Yeah, it's like, who cares what you think anyway?

No, of course not.

Oh, there we go.

Should just send it in, right?

If you have a case or even think you have a case, you should write it in to maximumfund.org slash jjho.

There's a simple form you fill out there,

and you can write it on in there and gets emailed to me, Or you can email me directly at hodgman at maximumfun.org.

I read them all.

I respond to as many as I can.

If you don't hear from me, it may be because I have put it aside to maybe hear the case on the podcast or maybe in the New York Times magazine.

So do not despair.

I'll tell you what, if you're quick and to the point, I will have a better time.

Yeah, absolutely.

But if you need to, if you need, take the time you need to write what you need, though, and I will consider it.

And, you know,

if it's not for us, I'll still be glad you wrote.

You got thoughts about something that happened on Judge John Hodgman?

Share it on Twitter with the hashtag JJHO.

In the Maximum Fun group on Facebook, a really nice, lively group.

Or in the Maximum Fun Subreddit at maximumfund.reddit.com, which is also a really nice, lively group.

The nicest place on subreddit.

Reddit.

Yeah, absolutely.

And we're grateful for everybody who does participate in that.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Bye-bye.

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