Witnessing the Badger

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, Witnessing the Badger.

Tobias brings the case against his wife, Rachel.

Rachel catches and rescues animals in distress.

Tobias would like her to stop.

She thinks it's important to be compassionate.

But Tobias is concerned about the risks involved now that they have a baby.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents an obscure cultural reference.

Everybody was asleep.

Everybody except me, John Hodgman, creeping sore and exhausted towards another hard spell of labor.

Why the hell had I ever decided to become a country podcaster?

I must have been crazy to pick a job where you worked seven days a week and through the night as well.

Sometimes I felt as though the practice was a malignant living entity testing me, trying me out, putting the pressure on more and more just to see at what point I would drop down dead.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear them in.

Please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite his inherent bias as a man who is one-quarter badger?

I do.

I do.

On his mother's side, I believe.

Judge Hodgman?

I can confirm on my mother's side, one-quarter badger.

The times were different then.

That's Philadelphia for you.

Tobias and Rachel, you may be seated.

By the way,

happy new year to you and y'all.

We probably have had some episodes airing since the new year happened, but this is our first episode.

We've recorded in the new year.

By the time you've heard this, we've had, I think, probably a knockdown, drag out, wonderful performance at the Kern Theater at the San Francisco Sketch Fest.

Wasn't that slash, won't that be fun, Jesse?

Yes, it was and will be.

So it's true, though, Jesse, right, what I just said in the obscure cultural reference that podcasting, it is a seven days a week job, often working through the night.

For you, it is.

It certainly is for me, and I'm an urban podcaster.

I can only imagine what it would be like to be the only podcaster in my community and have everyone depending on me.

Yeah, I have to get into the old car and drive around from farm to farm to give them a podcast.

Pack my podcasting

Gladstone bag.

I think Jesse has a guess as to what the cultural reference is, but for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, Tobias or Rachel, you can both guess now.

And by the way, thank you for all of your emails about that time that guy guessed the Ferris Bueller quote, and I just freaked out and gave it to him, and I didn't give his counterpart the chance to guess as well, because if she had guessed correctly, we could have called it a tie.

Both of you will get a chance to guess before I reveal the answer.

And Rachel, you have been brought into this court against your will by your husband Tobias.

So you will get to guess first if you wish, or you can make Tobias guess first.

Which shall it be?

I'll take a guess.

Yes, I love it when they guess first.

Is that just some John Hodgman wisdom?

John Hodgman direct quote?

Just.

I'm just writing it down here on my pad at Argo Studios in New York City, where Paul Ruest is operating the knobs and dials, as always.

Just some good old

J

H whiz.

All right, I wrote it down.

It's entered into the guest book.

I am not revealing whether that is correct.

It could be correct.

That could be false.

Tobias, what is your guess?

I'm fairly certain I've read that.

And the only book I've read

that could possibly be from.

Yeah, the only.

Yeah.

No, no, no.

Was it the Bible?

You're right.

No, it's of mice and men.

It's got to be of mice and men.

Of mice

and men.

There is an animal reference in that one.

Of mice and men, of course, it's got mice in the title.

Yeah.

And as well, don't spoiler alert, some puppies get killed,

Which is part of your issue with your wife.

She's bringing in hurt puppies.

She keeps crushing puppies in her hands because she doesn't know her own strength.

Yeah, I was going to say, instead of killing them like you'd like to do, you big brute,

just trying to make them better.

I've entered that in.

Let me review my Argo Studios notepad.

And I'm going to tell you, all guesses are wrong.

Judge Hodgman, I know this one.

Do you, Jesse?

Yeah.

Is it James Harriet from All Creatures Great and Small?

Why, yes.

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

That is the you got it right, and it's fine because we can still have the podcast bell.

Well done, Jesse.

How could I not have recognized it?

The television version of that is the world's greatest pants show.

Ha!

Ha!

Oh, the pants are so amazing.

Let me tell you something.

That right there is the first honest laugh to emerge from my gut in 2017.

That was the first good belly laugh that I've had.

Yeah, it's true, you guys.

It's from All Creatures Great and Small by James Harriet.

Now, this was a memoir of a country veterinarian

in England that got turned into, I would say, almost the archetypal sort of, I mean, literally tweety British TV show on public television here.

It may have been Masterpiece Theater.

I don't remember if it exactly was.

And I read these books as a kid because they're wonderful books.

And I had gotten into them because my mom liked them a lot and liked the TV show a lot.

And I liked my mom a lot.

And I associate the show with my mom,

who is no longer living, because as we learn the hard way, from all creatures great and small, not all creatures can be saved.

Rachel believes they can be saved.

Not a single mouse nor sparrow shall die on her watch.

Is that not the case, Rachel?

I think you can do your best.

Is that a challenge to me?

I'm not a challenge.

You can do your best to try to kill a mouse around me.

Tobias, you've brought...

Now, Rachel is your wife, correct?

Yes.

All right.

And you've brought her to my court because she is taking in wounded and sick animals into your house.

Is that correct?

Yes.

Now you may elaborate.

Oh, okay.

Well,

yes.

We did a good elaboration there, Tobias.

Let me help you.

What kind of animals does she bring home?

She brings all sorts home.

A mouse most recently.

Cats very frequently.

Cats very frequently?

Very frequently.

Where do you live?

We live in Garland, Texas, which is a suburb of Dallas.

Cat wounding capital of the United States.

When you say very frequently, how frequently, Rachel, are you bringing in a cat that's been hurt?

It's not frequently at all, for one thing.

It's maybe once or twice a year.

This is, we're recording on the fourth day of 2017.

How many dozens of cats have you brought into the house and nursed back to health so far this year?

Zero for 2017.

How many, all right, so that's zero for 2017.

How How many cats

did you bring into your home and nurse back to health or not in 2016, would you say?

One.

One.

And 2015?

One.

One.

Do you keep records before 2015?

I don't.

I don't really.

Before 2015, I think that there was one cat that someone else found and we fostered for a little bit.

That counts.

So about

one cat per year.

One cat a year, yeah.

And I would take care with your record keeping because you don't want to have to deal with a found cat audit from the IRS.

Basically, what you want to do is you want to keep your found cat records for five years back.

And you want to keep a hard copy and

you want to make a digital copy, but you have to keep it off-site in case there's a fire.

Moving on.

Now, in addition to these one cats per year, what else are you taking in, Rachel?

The only other thing that I've brought into our home was the mouse.

In life

or in your five-year found animal record?

In the five-year found animal record.

We have found dogs

near my mom's house before, and we'll bring them there.

That's not my house.

Okay.

Dogs go to mom's house.

And we've found found birds in the past that we have not kept at home.

We've taken them straight to a wildlife center.

So, Tobias, I got three cats over three years, one mouse.

We'll get back to that mouse in a second because

I have a problem with mice.

A couple of dogs went to mom's house, a couple of birds went to the wildlife center.

Why is this a problem?

I get concerned about wild animals, or at least animals that

we don't know a history on, coming into the house that is a clean place and is a safe place.

And

I don't like

not knowing about the things that are inside of my house.

And

when an animal comes in.

It seems like a lot of fun, Tobias.

I know.

I'm sorry.

I'm a horrible person.

Well, hold on.

Hold on.

I'll tell you why I'm horrible.

Here's why.

Exactly.

Exactly why.

I have a one-year-old now, and I've grown to become a human-monster weird dad.

Oh, no way, Tobias.

No way.

No, no, no.

Long line of weird human-monster dads

on this show.

No.

I live order.

No way a parent of a...

This is your only child so far?

Yeah.

And if you're lucky, maybe the only one you'll have, and then you'll get to raise an only child.

And then you can be a weird dad to a weird child.

Missed.

Weird daddism doesn't begin until the child is old enough to embarrass.

Right now, you are a new dad.

That is a different type of neurotic fixation.

You are afraid

about everything because you are suddenly protecting a tiny little life.

Sure.

Now, with regard to your one-year-old child, do you know what kind of child it is?

He's a boy.

As the doctor told you, it's a boy.

Apparently,

right.

Okay, that's right, a biological boy.

Congratulations on the birth of your of your baby.

How old is this child?

He just turned one on New Year's Day.

Oh, that's wonderful.

And given that we do not know your last names, are you willing to share his first name?

Yeah, he's Tobias Jr.

So, Rachel, tell me about these cats.

What kind of injuries are we talking about?

Um, it's usually just that they have fleas or skin conditions like um

ringworm or they're malnourished.

Um we have a lot of wild cats in our neighborhoods and the kittens will get washed out of their nests or whatever when it rains and

washed out of their nests.

That's what the vet said, that cats have nests.

Apparently, that's a thing.

I think I've told this story before.

But I'm going to tell it again about my when I was in my twenties and I came home to visit and the cat that I had grown up with had become quite elderly and had several teeth removed due to gum decay and stuff.

And my dad said, call the vet and bring the cat over there.

And I did.

And they said, well, we need to remove a couple more teeth.

I'm like, a couple more teeth?

There's not going to be any teeth left.

How is the cat going to eat?

And the veterinarian told me with a straight face, cats don't usually use their teeth when they eat.

And you know what I said to that veterinarian?

You're a damn liar.

That's why cats have teeth.

When that cat eats food, you know what I hear?

Crunching.

A lot of it.

To the point of it being annoying.

Anyway, so, but apparently cats don't need teeth, and they also live in nests.

Vets, I guess.

Yeah, they knew.

So you're just fine.

So these are not like injured cats in the road.

These are in physical distress.

They're just scrawny, malnourished strays that you are taking in.

Yeah.

And then you find homes for them?

Yes.

We've kept one and she's lovely.

What is her name?

Her name is Jadis.

Like the white witch from Narnia?

Yes.

Yes.

Well, when we got her, she was very angry.

And we were reading the Narnia books at the time, and it fit her real good.

She tried to foist some Turkish delight on you?

She did, yeah.

She was that kind of cat.

All I remember about the Chronicles of Narnia is Turkish delights.

You got that one, Jesse?

Yeah, that's all the book is about, right?

There's like some kind of overweight kid who's obsessed with Turkish delights, and

he follows them through a portal into an allegory of the Christ.

That was what was written on the back of the book.

You know, I have to say, Tobias, this doesn't seem like a terrible situation.

What are you afraid?

You're afraid that your young son is going to get fleas?

Well, sure, fleas, but we have two cats and a dog,

and it's hard enough to keep fleas off of them, as it is.

Wait a minute.

You have two cats and a dog.

I thought you were describing your house as some sort of cleanroom paradise where you know where you wear jumpsuits all the time it's a very hairy cleanroom paradise and it's difficult to keep clean as it is after adding a child what was the last straw in rachel's behavior that drove you to seek redress from this court this mouse yeah mouse mouse tell me about the mouse tobias well uh there was one day i was uh taking a shower first of all its name is aslan

Go ahead.

I was taking a shower and I got a phone call.

And it was from Rachel.

And usually we communicate via text because we're millennials.

And so I knew this was very urgent.

And she said, hey, I need help.

And she had been out walking our son.

And so I run downstairs.

I'm in a towel, open the door.

Hey, what's up?

She said, hey, get the boy, get him inside.

I'm like, okay, so I get him inside, get him settled.

I go back out.

Are you okay?

What's going on?

She's like, we have a new friend.

And she's got both hands wrapped around a mouse

and I'm like okay what do you want to do with it she said okay well can we help it

no no we're not gonna help this mouse we don't need to be helping a mouse and I'm has it bit you no not yet okay well why

hasn't it gotten away from you why has it not bitten you what's wrong with this thing that you have caught it

Can I just ask you a question?

I have a lot to react to in that story, which was rather well told.

Oh, thank you.

I've told it maybe several times.

You may be the C.S.

Lewis of our time.

I presume the mouse is Christ in that somehow.

You were texting in the shower?

Did I understand that correctly?

No, no, no.

Usually I get a text from Rachel, but because she called, I knew it was urgent.

Okay, I got you.

So you were answering the phone in the shower.

Answering the phone.

Yes, yes.

You have one of those bathroom phones, like in a fancy hotel.

Well, I can't be further than 10 feet away from my phone at any given time.

You say you're millennials.

How old are you?

We're 20.

I'm 27.

Rachel's 26.

By the way, I don't like your braggy millennial tone.

I'm a millennial.

I'm king of the millennials.

I'm the voice of the millennial generation.

I forbid you from referring to yourself as a millennial.

You're not a true millennial,

Jesse, if you're not willing to...

brag unself-consciously about being a millennial without appreciation

without any appreciation of how dumb that makes you sound.

No offense, Tobias.

If I'm not a true millennial, then why do I have all these strong feelings about potatoes?

To me, the defining trait of the millennial is a complete lack of self-consciousness, self-doubt, or self-contempt.

A kind of, I guess you'd put it, emotional equilibrium verging on happiness

that I find offensive and very alien to me.

It would be the kind of selflessness that would allow you to consider taking care of a dying mouse.

Rachel, where did you find the mouse?

I was out walking and it was literally sitting in the middle of the sidewalk, but it was sitting up like it was alive, but it just wasn't moving.

Sitting up like it was alive?

Yeah, it was sitting up like in a mouse pose, but it was perfectly still.

Sitting up in in a mouse pose

you mean it wasn't lying on its side and it wasn't like cartoon dead with its legs in the air right yeah it was behaving regularly except that it wasn't running away from me and when I got closer it looked like maybe a cat had gotten it and one of his eyes was all caked up with blood so I figured he was blind and couldn't see so that's how I was able to pick him up

And

he seemed really thirsty and lost, and so I thought I would give him some water and then take him down to the wildlife center.

But it was

Sunday, so I figured he would need to stay with us overnight, and then we could take him in the morning.

In what way did he seem thirsty?

Was he asking you for water?

It was he had his mouth open and was breathing hard.

This wildlife center, where is that?

It's not too far.

It's like a 30, 40 minute drive.

It's not like an actual reserve.

It's a veterinary office that takes in birds and squirrels and stuff like that.

And then they take them, after they nurse them back to health, they take them to refugees.

Nice.

That's a handy thing to have in your neighborhood, especially if you are picking up mice off the street.

To be clear, it is not in her neighborhood.

She indicated it was a 30- to 40-minute drive away.

But you forget we're in Texas.

Yeah, in Texas, that's not so bad.

Yeah.

In many ways, Jesse, Texas is like parts of rural New England.

Have I talked about New England recently with you, Jesse?

No, not at all.

You haven't mentioned it.

Huh.

It's funny, I have a note here on my Argo Studios notepad to mention New England at some point.

Oh, thank God.

I had this note, I think Jennifer gave me that said, talk about the shopping center, The Grove.

It's just issued to all comedy podcasters.

So let me guess how this story unfolded.

You put the mouse, and I guess we will code name it Aslan for the purposes of this conversation,

into a shoebox with some cotton batting in it, and you fed it some water from an eyedropper, and you waited until Monday while Tobias and Tobias Jr.

held each other in fear on the other side of the room, unable to sleep all night.

I wish

I could have played it.

No, no, no, no, now I'm C.S.

Lewis again.

This is my time to tell the story.

And then

in the morning, you got into your car with the shoebox.

The mouse was still alive.

Still was blind in one eye.

And you're like, hey, little buddy, I'm going to take you now to the Wildlife Center.

You drove 40 minutes to the Wildlife Center.

First thing Monday morning, ding-dong.

Wildlife Center employee comes up and you say, hey, I got the sick mouse.

And they say, thank you.

We'll take care of this.

Door closes.

Wildlife Center employee takes the shoebox.

As you're driving away, watches you drive away, then walks immediately out to the back of the wildlife center, throws the mouse into the woods, and gets on with his day.

How accurate am I?

Well, I mean,

given the stuff you didn't witness.

No, what happened was that Toby came to the door and he said,

no, I'm not going to help you, and you can't keep the mouse, and you can't, I'm not going to get you a box, you can't use any of our boxes.

You have to just let it go.

And then

after staring at him in disbelief for a while, he said I could release it into our backyard where it would presumably be safe from cats and birds, sort of, because there's bushes.

And talking about, you're in a neighborhood where there are cats falling out of nests every day.

I know.

Starving cats.

That's what he said to do.

So I put it in the backyard.

I left a little bowl out for it.

And

over the next few days, we saw him come out and have a drink and kind of scurry around on the porch and then go back into the bush.

And then I haven't seen him since then.

Well, a perfect resolution.

You saw him scurry around.

Well, he's all blind and like sad.

He's a mouse.

Sorry.

I'm sorry.

You have to understand that

I have a home in rural New England that had belonged to my mother

that had a terrible mouse infestation.

And I learned to not like these creatures

because as I would try to sleep, I would hear them in my walls scratching around like it was an H.P.

Lovecraft story.

Good literary references today.

I like it.

Good literary references every day.

Oh, okay, every day.

Oh, shut your pie hole, ma'am.

Well, to be fair, I should say same literary references every day.

But I will say this: the thing about the mice in my house was that I would not see them,

but they would leave reminders maliciously that they were there.

And I leave it to you to judge which is more disturbing and disgusting:

the mouse poop in my silverware drawer

Or

the

little piles of seeds that the mouse would cache

under

my bedroom pillow.

No.

Yeah, that's what we're dealing with here.

Mice.

God.

Mice.

And you know what?

Here's my decision.

Everything poops.

You know that lovely book, Everybody Poops?

Another great literary reference.

Yeah, it's a great book.

Buy that one for your kids.

Again, shut your pie hole.

Was that my pie hole?

No, her pie hole with her.

Flattery.

I like that.

Everybody poops.

And then,

so I, you know, I can't, like, look, the mice got into the house.

That's the way it went down.

They got to poop somewhere.

They don't know that it's my silverware drawer.

But I find the hoarding of little little piles of seeds under my pillow

that's more disturbing to me.

Why?

Because A, it's a very intimate space, and B, a little pile of seeds.

It's just weird, Mouse.

It's being weird now.

You don't need to pile.

Where are you getting the seeds?

I've got open packages of gummy bears in the cupboard.

Go at it.

Don't pile up a bunch of seeds like a hoarder.

Would you prefer if it were saving people food under your pillow?

Like,

you know,

like dried fruit.

Yeah, some dried apricots.

If I found like

a little miniature ham sandwich it had made under my pillow.

I could get with that.

Well, but it sounds like this is resolved.

Unless what happened after you denied the mouse access to your home to bias?

Was there some cleaning?

Oh, absolutely.

Well, while she was saying goodbye, I took it upon myself to bleach, wipe my

hands,

the door, the

walker, the child, everything.

Everything got bleached.

And

after she let go of the mouse, I bleached her as well.

Why?

What were you afraid of with this mouse?

Rabies, of course.

100% rabies every time.

That's what you're afraid of all the time with all these animals?

Any animal.

Any animal could have rabies.

You never know which ones, especially the ones that are easy to catch, I would assume.

Like, what's wrong with this mouse that you were able to catch it?

Why do you have it?

Maybe it's just Generation X and it's so self-conscious, it's just bummed out.

It doesn't care anymore.

It's lazy.

It can't get a job because the boomers

won't retire.

Boomer mice.

It just wants to use its dad's gas station credit card.

So talk to me about rabies.

Do you have any evidence that any of these cats or dogs or mouse had rabies?

I hear what you're saying about the easy to catch, but you know if you listen to this podcast, that's often a sign of a toxoplasmosis.

Sure.

Yeah, which with all the cats in the area, it could absolutely have toxoplasmosis.

I feel like you guys are living in a toxoplasmosis hot zone.

And you submitted some evidence as well with regard to rabies.

Do you want to tell me about the evidence?

Sure, absolutely.

So if we care about rabies at all, then we're going to want to test whether we have rabies if we got bit.

So the way to test that is to take the animal to a veterinarian who will euthanize it and then pull out brain tissue to see whether it had rabies or not, to see whether you need to get a rabies shot.

So if you care about the animal, you should not allow it to bite you or get anywhere close enough to where it can give you rabies because otherwise you're going to end up killing the animal anyway.

Right.

So,

did you have evidence that any of these cats might have had rabies?

Jadis

is still in your house or Jadis.

Sure.

Well,

whenever we take in one of the larger animals, like a dog or a cat, if we're going to be with them for a while, we, of course, get them shots and tested

for different things.

And the fast way to test for rabies is to cut the head off and check the brain tissue.

I'm assuming that there are other ways to test for it.

That usually has some adverse effects for the animal, though.

Right.

I usually just stick my finger in the mouth and see what happens.

I'm not an expert on rabies,

but the symptoms of rabies, aside from foaming in the mouth and unusual aggression, do you have any other research to present to this court for me to consider whether or not your fear is rational or irrational?

To be able to recognize rabies?

Yeah.

No.

Okay.

You're just afeard of rabies.

I'm afeard of rabies.

Have been from way back.

Well, how come?

Did you have a traumatic experience?

I remember when I was little, the bird flu epidemic was going on.

And

there were birds, just dead birds everywhere

in Arlington, not too far from here.

And I was always told, you know, don't pick it up, don't touch it.

If a bird walks up to you, run away from it because there's something wrong with it.

You could get bird flu.

I would say that if a bird walks up to me, I would feel a little nervous because I'd be like, dude, you got wings.

Why are you walking?

Why are you making this weird choice?

So, how old were you when you lived in a community of dead birds?

That was kindergarten, first grade.

Wow.

Like when you said there were dead birds everywhere.

I used to walk to school and I would see two or three new ones every day.

Ugh.

Through some sort of avian abattoir?

We should explain that you grew up on a turkey farm.

Now, where in Texas do you live exactly?

Do you live in toxoplasmotic hot zone or in bird plagueville?

It's where we sacrifice all the birds to our cat overlords.

Right.

And so you probably aren't too comfortable with taking in wounded birds either.

Yes, absolutely.

So, Rachel, are there any animals that you would not take in?

Like, do you draw the line anywhere?

I obviously would have drawn the line at a mouse.

Sure.

I probably wouldn't.

No, no, I wouldn't probably get a snake or like a skunk.

I probably wouldn't.

I might help a skunk, but not like into the house.

How do you differentiate between animals that

are worth extreme measures and junk animals that you wouldn't even give the time of day to?

Well, like a snake could bite me, and that would be really scary.

And a skunk has its own like problematic

things that skunks do.

I'm sure you know about that.

Yeah.

Yeah, they get you on the phone and they won't let you hang up, for example.

I'm Corter Badger.

Okay.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

You want to be a little bit more skunk racist on my podcast?

They're my cousins.

I would help a badger.

You would not help a badger.

Are you kidding me?

I've never actually seen a badger.

Yeah.

Also, for the record, this was the first time I ever saw a mouse either.

This is the first time you ever saw a mouse?

What?

Yeah, I've never seen a mouse before.

What?

Like, I've seen rats.

I've never seen a cute little mouse.

You really thought this mouse was cute, didn't you?

It was, yeah.

But also just keep in mind, like, this is the first mouse I had ever seen in my life.

It's adorable.

I question this premise.

How is that the first mouse you've ever seen in your life?

We have a lot of rats.

I've seen rats around before.

I've seen like a white mouse at the pet store.

That's a type of mouse.

That's a perfect example of a mouse you've seen.

Okay, so I've seen the white mice before, but I'd never seen like a wild mouse.

Now, you've sent in some evidence as well.

Yes.

And mostly your evidence consists of cute internet cat pictures.

Yes.

You have a picture of Pepe the cat whom you rescued and now lives with your mother-in-law.

Yes.

Pepe, very cute.

Here's a picture of

Jadis whom you rescued who is now sleeping

who is now stationed very close to your infant son.

Yeah, she loves him a lot.

Jadis is clearly contemplating stealing his breath.

And this is not a cute cat picture, but a cute bird picture.

Now, that one's very interesting because Toby just said that he wouldn't take in birds, but that was a bird that he found while we were dating.

Oh,

you changed your tune.

How come you rescued a bird when you were dating, Toby?

Were you trying to impress her?

Absolutely.

Rachel's mother is very all about saving animals.

And Rachel was very cute.

And I was all about impressing her.

Plus, this was a mockingbird, which is the state bird of Texas.

And I felt I had an obligation as a native Texan to take care of our state bird.

Is that

somewhere in the Texas citizenship vow?

Well, considering you've never taken it, I would say yes.

Okay, fine.

Well, then, that's why I'm always bringing home grizzly bears.

You know, a state bird of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts is a chickadee.

If I see a sick chickadee on the road, you know what I do?

What's that?

Just keep walking.

This is a magnificent-looking bird, and I'm presuming that this is Rachel in the photograph with this magnificent-looking bird.

Yeah.

Yeah, and so you were clearly just trying to

woo her and impress her mom for sure.

Plus, we had just found the

animal sanctuary, the bird sanctuary,

where we were going to take the mouse.

It's specifically a bird sanctuary.

Wait, it's a bird sanctuary?

We were going to take the mouse to a bird sanctuary?

Wildlife refuge.

Let me ask you a question.

What do birds eat?

This bird ate like bugs.

It was a little bird.

They would take that mouse and they would say, hey, guess what, owls?

You're going to get better.

They got two horned owls in there that haven't eaten well in months.

They're going to eat Aslan right up.

Then expel his bones in a little pellet.

Owls are crazy.

All right, but now you're married.

Basically, let me understand this.

Now you're married.

You don't need to impress Rachel or your mother anymore.

You got a son that you're trying to protect from rabies, and you would have me order that she, Rachel, never take another animal in again.

Is that correct?

Taking care of animals is something that Rachel also really likes to do and I would never forbid her from doing it ever again,

but I would ask that the court order a moratorium until our son has the wits about him to know that she's making a terrible decision and can protect himself from these animals.

From a mockingbird and a mouse?

All right.

I understand what you were asking.

Rachel, quick question.

Where does your mom live?

She lives nearby, about a 15-minute drive.

Well, it's a lot closer than the wildlife sanctuary.

Yes, it is.

What would you have me order if I were to find in your favor?

I would have you order that as long as I'm not keeping this animal long-term, that Toby should just suck it up and deal with it for the one or two days that we're taking care of an animal.

All right.

I'm going to crawl into the little burrow that I made in honor of my mother's heritage.

I'm going to look over my notes here, and I will be back in a moment with my verdict.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Rachel, how are you feeling about your chances in the case?

I feel really good about it.

What's the biggest animal you would be willing to bring home?

If it would let me near it, just about anything.

Big animals can run a lot faster if they don't want to be with me.

So like a wildebeest?

Well, if it needed help, sure.

I probably wouldn't bring it home.

I'd probably try and find a more open area.

I don't think it would fit in the house if it was a wildebeest.

Well, I mean, you know, you might have to knock out a door frame.

Tobias, how are you feeling about your chances?

Oh, there's several things I wish I had had the opportunity to say, but the judge is very wise.

I always trust his judgments.

You know, I am sick of both of your weird streams of flattery.

Shut your pie holes.

We'll be back in just a second with Judge John Hodgman's ruling.

Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at maximumfund.org, and they are all your favorites.

If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic.

Just go to maximumfund.org/slash join.

The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Quince.

Jesse, the reviews are in.

My new super soft hoodie from Quince that I got at the beginning of the summer is indeed super soft.

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Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

You may be seated.

Rachel, I am glad to know you, and I am glad to know Tobias, and I am glad that Tobias Jr.

is a healthy,

young, gender-assigned at-birth boy.

I wish you all the happiness in the world, and I'm especially glad that he's healthy because there is no doubt in my mind that you got that toxoplasmosis in you.

You plasmon.

Toxoplasmosis gets into a mouse.

It makes it less likely to run away so that a cat will eat it.

And then it gets into the cat and then it reproduces and its spores go out through the cat's poop.

And then mice go wandering around cat poop and they get it.

And that's the life cycle of toxoplasmosis.

And it can get into humans too if you change that litter box.

And then there is some, I think at this point, unproven suggestion that it affects the behavior of people

who have it in their brains

such that they want to have cats around them.

You've got it so bad that not only do you want to have cats around you, but you're going for mice now too.

The real worry, of course,

is, and this has come up on the podcast before, is that if you get infected with toxoplasmosis while you are pregnant, it can cause

bad stuff to happen to your baby.

Yes.

That's why pregnant women are not supposed to be changing litter boxes, or at least that's what my pregnant wife told me when I had to do it.

So,

whether or not these animals have rabies,

the evidence that was presented to this court that Tobias did not have a chance to mention, but I reviewed, that it is a recommendation of the CDC and most veterinarians that if you find a wounded animal in the world,

that

you leave it alone.

Now, these cats you're taking in are not wounded, but they are astray.

They are feral.

They may have rabies, I suppose, and it might be too late before you know it.

And they may have all kinds of other issues and stuff.

I don't want these cats to suffer any more than you do.

But I got to say, even though I think that Tobias is primarily primarily acting out of his own psychic trauma of walking to school and seeing dead birds everywhere and believing that the natural world exists to poison him,

it's not untrue.

It's not untrue that

taking a creature, even if it is a spade-neutered, shot-given rescue cat that's been checked out up, down,

downtown, and all around town by a good rescue organization, has a clean bill of health, you're still bringing in an unpredictable creature into your house.

I bet you're going to find Jada sitting on Tobias Jr.'s head someday.

Cats don't like babies.

It's true.

It's a reason they don't like them.

In any case,

your husband is a little neurotic on this subject, but I do think that

there are ways to continue your interest in helping out the natural world that do not involve bringing them directly into your house.

And out of respect

for your husband's neurosis and your son's health, simply carry out your hobby elsewhere.

Anytime you find something dead or dying, take it to your mom's house.

Leave it outside of her front door, like a cat does with its prey.

Your mom already raised healthy children.

She can handle all the rabies and toxoplasmosis she can take.

And or drive 40 minutes and go and volunteer at that wildlife refuge place.

Then you can get a sense from them.

Okay, here's the thing.

Rachel, if someone brings in a golden eagle with a bad wing, we're going to take care of that.

If it's a mockingbird, well, that's the state bird of Texas.

We're legally obligated to bring that thing back to life, even if it's dead.

Yes, we have technology to resurrect mockingbirds.

Otherwise, we become Oklahomans.

Yeah.

The one state grant for technology in the past 25 years was the mockingbird resurrection device.

But Rachel, let me tell you something.

As long as you're volunteering here, you need to know.

If someone brings in a sick mouse, just say thank you very much, walk it out back and throw it to the owls.

Let's face it, regardless of diseases, and I'm sure I'll get a lot of emails talking about how wrong I am about X, Y, and Z rabies and toxoplasmosis or whatever, let me remind you, I was chased by and bitten by a pack of dogs.

I don't need your advice

on rabies.

I got a shot.

But even the healthy animals, the three healthy animals, the two cats and a dog you have, now with this baby, you have enough going on in your house.

And frankly, you are handling enough feces in your house at this point.

You do not need any extra distractions.

Respect your husband's fear of dead and dying things.

Take your hobby outside of the house.

You know what I mean?

I'm almost like advising you to have an affair.

You can continue.

You can continue.

Just don't bring it home with you.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge Sean Hodgman rules out as all.

Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Rachel, how are you feeling?

I feel okay.

I feel like I can accept that and I can

be loving towards my husband in that way by not bringing animals home anymore, but that I will definitely still bring them to my mom's house.

Does your mom have French doors for when you find that wildebeest?

She actually does.

She does.

Yeah.

So you're all set.

Yeah, I'm ready.

Maybe it would be a longhorn.

Yeah, it would be a longhorn, and then we'd be legally obligated to take care of it.

Tobias, how do you feel in your triumph?

I feel like my father-in-law may never speak to me again.

We were just getting along so well.

He signed up for all this a long time ago.

His die has been cast.

Well, Tobias, Rachel, thank you for joining us on the Judge Sean Hodgman podcast.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years.

And

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened.

And you're probably

three white guys talking for 15 years.

I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on My Brother, My Brother, and Me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's learn everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined!

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper.

And on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Judge Hodgman, come out the back door.

I want to show you something.

Okay, let me get out of my little burrow here.

What do you got?

Well, as you can hear by that sound that was definitely not laid in afterwards by our producer Jennifer, it's a longhorn cow.

Bull.

Bull.

The bulls have horns.

The cows don't have horns.

It's very sickly looking.

I really don't want you to bring this into our courtroom, Jesse.

No, Jesse, come on.

Hookum horns.

I guess I'm going to get that longhorn toxoplasmosis now.

I was just looking in my burrow as you guys were wrapping it up there.

I was looking at pictures of badgers, which is something I've never searched up before.

And I found this beautiful picture of a badger

running at, like, running so fast it is above the ground.

It is a galloping badger.

I have never seen a badger look so active.

Oh, I see the picture.

Look at that badger.

Wow.

This This is like why they invented photography.

It's so that you could tell that when a badger runs, all four of its legs lift off the ground.

The photo is from a,

it turns out, from a website called animal-dream.com.

It tells you what you're dreaming about when you dream about a badger, which was great Raymond Carver's story.

The headline on Google Images just says, Dream of Badger.

So we'll definitely post that Dream of Badger photo on maximumfun.org, the Judge John Hodgson page on the show notes.

But what do we have coming up?

Well, we have Max FunCon coming up.

Tickets are on sale for Max FunCon in Southern California right now.

That's in June.

And then Labor Day weekend, there's the East Coast Max FunCon.

Judge Hodgman, how would you describe what Max FunCon is?

Well, it is a coming together of listeners and Max Fun talent.

and also just really talented comedians and musicians and other sorts of people in a beautiful environment,

one of them being on the west coast around Lake Arrowhead, which is an amazing man-made lake way up in the mountains, not far from the Scientology base where they think Shelly Miscavige is being kept prisoner, but that's just a side benefit for me.

They also have tennis courts and pools and campfires at night where everyone meets and tells stories.

And then the Poconos, the beautiful Poconos Mountains of the New York and Pennsylvania region,

in a great big old haunted hotel where everyone gets together and

it's a small group of people who enjoy

great podcasts.

And I, you know, it's been a part of my yearly life for the past, well, what which Max FunCon West is this?

What number is it?

Nine.

Nine.

It's almost a decade it's been a part of my life and one of my favorite weekends of the year because I just get to see old friends and new.

And never a time have I gone to Max FunCon when I didn't come back having seen incredible performances and met incredible people, both of performers and

non-performers, just listeners.

The beauty of this show is that we meet virtually people from all over the world who are really interesting and fun and delightful.

And that's what happens at Max FunCon in real time, in real life, face-to-face.

Tickets for that are on sale at maxfuncon.com.

We've got our show in Chicago coming up.

That's February 11th at Talia Hall.

That's going to be an extravaganza.

Advanced tickets are now officially sold out, but we will have tickets at the door.

So it will start at noon.

So get in line.

If you didn't get your tickets, goofballs.

And you're doing something with our pal John Darnell from the Mountain Goats.

Yeah, that's right.

You know, he's got a new novel coming out, which I've read, an advanced copy of.

I'm lucky that way, called Universal Harvester, edited by the great Sean MacDonald at Farrar Strauss Giroux.

And I'm doing a publication event with him at Symphony Space on the upper west side of Manhattan on February 7th.

All the details are on my website at johnhodgman.com slash tour.

And any other things that I've forgotten to announce, the details are there as well.

I love that John Darnell.

I loved his last book.

Wolf and White Van.

Yeah,

it's a little disquieting, but also very comforting.

Not unlike John Darneill.

Not unlike John Darnell.

Our producer on the program, Jennifer Marmer, thanks to Jennifer.

Our thanks to Jessica White for naming this week's show.

Be sure to like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook so that you can name a future episode.

You can also follow us on Twitter.

I'm at Jesse Thorne, and Hodgman is at Hodgman.

There's also been a lot of action lately in the Maximum Fund group on Facebook.

Those groups are fun.

Yeah, you know, I ought to spend more time in the groups, but I'm spending most of my time reading your wonderful emails, which you can email to to me at hodgman at maximumfund.org or submit your cases at maximumfund.org/slash jjhoe.

I read them all.

I respond to as many as I can.

And if you don't hear from me, it might be because we're considering your case for hearing on the podcast or on the Judge John Hodgman column net in the New York Times magazine.

This week's episode was engineered by Bruce Faulkner at Cake Mix Recording in Dallas, Texas, home of the Mockingbirds.

And here in New York by Paul Ruest at Argo Studios in New York City.

And you already mentioned our producer, Jennifer Marmer.

I think those are the credits.

Yeah, hashtag it JJ Ho on Twitter and go to maximumfun.org/slash JJ Ho to submit your cases.

No case too big or small.

We judge them all.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Hey, hey, mock, mock, ing, ing,

bird, bird, text us.

That's my new sign off.

Goodbye.

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