The Hallowed Y'alls of Justice

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

This week, the Hallowed Yawls of Justice.

Alexandra brings the case against her mother, Dale.

Whenever Dale travels, she likes to adopt the local accent in conversation with those around her.

Alexandra is embarrassed every time she does this and wishes she would stop.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents the obscure cultural reference.

This universe is only one of an infinite number, y'all.

Worlds without end,

some benevolent and life-giving, others with malice and hunger, Governor.

Dark places where powers older than time lie, ravenous and waiting.

Who are you in this vast multiverse, Bailiff Jesse Thorne?

I ask you that and ask you to swear them in.

Please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

Whatever.

I do.

Hold on.

Whatever is not an alternate choice besides swearing that.

It's an alternate choice to God, like if you believe in something other than God.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, Dale?

Maybe.

This case cannot proceed without affirmative consent.

Let me guess who the mom is.

Putting a circle around Dale, she's the mom.

The whole point of this show is that it is a binding verdict.

Hmm.

Okay.

Or as you might say, Dale, binding.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he himself has no parents, having appeared spontaneously in the mid-1970s?

I do.

Yes.

Very well, Judge Hodgman.

Alexandra and Dale, you may be seated.

By the way, thank you very much, Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

I will accept the erasure of my parents

if what I get in return is that I was born in the mid-70s

instead of 1971.

I will accept the erasure of my parents from all of history if it means that I am am three years younger than I am today.

But I'm in a good,

this old man is in a good mood because, ladies, my, you're going to get, don't get too excited, but my plantar fasciitis is not hurting as much in my heel.

But I'm in a good mood.

It's been bad for weeks, but it's feeling pretty good right now.

So for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, Alexandra or Dale,

can either of you name the piece of culture that I referenced as I entered the courtroom?

Dale, you're the mom to Alexandra, correct?

That is correct.

So, both because you were brought to court against your will and out of respect for moms, you may either guess first

or make Alexandra guess first.

What is it going to be?

I will guess first.

Dale, brave, brave woman.

Nothing if not brave.

Well,

she's doing it already.

Trying on our voices.

Let's hear your guess.

My guess, y'all, is that it might be Confederacy of Dunces.

Confeds of Dunces

by,

what's his name?

John Kennedy Tool.

That's right, John Kennedy Toole.

I couldn't remember, but I'm sure glad you got that one, Jesse.

Thank you.

I've made a note of that on my Argo Studios notepad.

Every time I have the luck to record here at Argo Studios on West 26th Street in New York City with our helpful producer locally, Paul Ruest.

They provide me with a nice notepad and a pen, and I can write down Confett of Dunces

by John Kennedy Toole.

That is the guess number one, marking that as number one.

Now, Alexandra, it is time for you to guess.

Stop stalling, Alexandra.

What is your guess?

Okay, so you said I heard you say y'all and multiverse and governor.

So I'm gonna guess.

By the way, I'm not, I may have dropped a few words in there that were not from the original

quote.

Nonetheless, my guess, which I'm sure is wrong, is a Dolly Parton Doctor Who concept album.

A Dolly Parton Doctor Who.

I'll give you this case right now if you can tell me what the title of that album is.

It would be

Blue Smoke TARDIS.

That's pretty good.

Blue Smoke in the TARDIS?

What does TARDIS mean?

Oh, mom, you'll find out someday.

It's for the best that you don't know.

Thank God.

For a woman who is accused of, and this is the crux of the case here, your daughter accuses you of traveling around the world and taking on the accents of the places where you're traveling.

Have you ever done a British accent?

Of course I've done a British accent many, many times, and in fact, professionally.

Try doing one for us now.

I feel that all of of you are extremely biased against my British accent already.

For someone who affects a British accent to not know what a TARDIS is, that's a rare thing, I have to say.

Whovian knowledge is at the center of people who put on British accents.

Take it from a dude who did it in high school.

But both, if not all, guesses are wrong.

That, of course, was a quote from the recent blockbuster motion picture, Marvel's Doctor Strange, specifically Tilda Swinton,

playing the ancient one, one of many questionable casting and cultural appropriation choices in that film, which, by the way, is a really fun film.

But there was some controversy about Tilda Swinton, incredible actor, playing a character who in the comic books was Asian and she is not.

And then there are other sort of issues that were of sort of exoticization of Eastern meditation and mysticism that were not a big problem in the 60s when Doctor Strange was the comic book.

Now is kind of weird.

Still a lot of fun.

But for all of those questionable and somewhat controversial decisions, none were more questionable or controversial to me than the great actor Benedict Cumberbatch doing an American accent.

That was dumb.

Sorry about that, Benedict Cumberbatch.

I saw you at a hotel once, and I was speechless because I admire you so.

But if I were to see you again, I might say, don't go back in time and don't do that.

Just be yourself.

I would accept Doctor Strange with a British accent any day of the week.

This feels like bias already, Judge.

Well, I, you know, look,

I miss when leading actors in movies

where the character was American was allowed to be played by an American person.

I'm sorry to go on this rant, but there was a time when we would take an American like Dick Van Dyke and make him do a cockney accent.

We wouldn't even let a British person be in our movies.

And even more than that, we would not tell him that he was doing a bad job.

We would keep it secret because we didn't want to upset him.

I know, poor Dick Van Dyke.

That was revealed on your interview with him at Bullseye, right?

Yeah, it sure was.

Man, was he a delightful guy?

Go back in the archives, y'all.

But now we have this:

Alexandra and Dale.

So, Dale, you've already done a couple of voices for us.

Alexandra, who is your grown daughter, accuses you when you you travel together, or I guess separately, of taking on an accent, a regional accent when you're traveling in a place.

Do you accept this accusation or do you deny it, Dave?

I do not deny it.

I think it is absolutely accurate.

Oh my gosh.

Are you traveling through space and time?

Are you in the furnace?

I am traveling to the east side of Los Angeles, and it is a great distance from my home.

And I think I will talk like this today.

So I understand,

you made a mention that you've done this kind of accent work professionally.

Are you an actor?

I was an opera singer.

Whoa.

And as an opera singer, I had to do many, many, many accents.

Well,

you were singing in other languages, were you not?

But I also did operetta, music theater, shows like Brigadoon, where I was Scottish, other shows like My Fair Lady, where I was English, et cetera, et cetera.

And let me hear.

I'd like to speak to Dale now, please.

Is Dale inside

this?

Yes, I can speak with you.

I will try to speak in a regular American accent.

No, I don't.

I'm not saying, I just wanted to hear, I just, as a baseline, I want to speak to the person inside this body who identifies as Dale.

Dale, let me ask you a quick question, just for the sake of clarification.

Look inside yourself right now.

I'm taking you on a journey.

Is there anything there?

There is so much there.

Okay.

But is there a there there?

I don't know.

Now, I got to say, Alexandra, you are not in Los Angeles.

You are in Portland, Maine, or Oregon.

Oregon.

Why?

Is that...

No, I was.

Are you guys just so tired of people having opinions about Portland, Oregon?

No, feel free to have many opinions.

I think it's a wonderful place.

I think she's just ashamed of her mother.

That's basically what's happening, yes.

Oh, you were coming off of that.

I was stifling laughter/slash sad sounds, and that is

why that sound happened.

Listen, this is an audio podcast.

Please don't stifle any sad sounds because that's podcast gold.

I'll let them out.

Do you, so you, how old, if I may ask, you're a grown person in an age range of what?

Yes, I actually just turned 32 a few days ago.

Oh, happy conversation.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

And you've got this mom who is a former opera operetta singer.

Yes.

She seems awesome to me.

What's the problem?

My mom is, and I say this without any sarcasm, she is my hero and she is an incredible human being.

And I love her so much and we love traveling together.

However,

there are certain things that she does, namely the issue of this case today, that I just find very troubling and embarrassing.

And

I have sought to reason with her on my own unsuccessfully, which is why I bring her here today.

So, where have you traveled?

So, we have traveled together many different places.

A few trips that came to mind, we went to South Carolina a few years ago, which was the first time I heard the Southern Drawl come out and play.

We went to London very recently, which is when I heard the Downton Abbey voices

happen.

And those are the two most recent trips where there was like a very strong accent.

But we've been to many other places in Europe and throughout the United States, Canada, and whatnot.

But those two come to mind as like vivid accent.

Yeah, but Dale, you were doing a French accent there a little bit ago.

When you go to France, you're not speaking English in a French accent, are you?

Absolutement, no, je par français, conje parvi.

Je crusteau

brigit bardot

In the immortal words of Flight of the Concords, pompe le mousse.

Okay, so we're talking about when you go to English-speaking parts of the world, if there's a distinct regional accent, you're going to give it a shot.

Yes.

My number one question with a bullet.

Have you ever been caught?

Did everyone ever say to you, stop doing that?

The only person in my entire life who has taken verbal umbrage is my beloved beloved daughter, Alexandra, but she would say that others are offended, although she has absolutely no evidence of this.

Alexandra, I have got something important to admit, and I just want to get it out there right now.

Yes.

My mom also does this.

What?

Whoa.

Is that true, Bailiff Jesse?

My mom not only does this, but she speaks with an unplaceable accent that frequently led in my childhood to people pulling me aside.

And I should clarify, my mother's from Washington, D.C.

You know, a mid-Atlantic classic American accent.

You know, people from Washington, D.C.

don't have a lot of weird vocal mannerisms.

You know,

that's where they say, you can't get there from here.

That's where they say, I want you to, I want to go to, I want to go to Logan Circle.

You can't get there from here.

Throughout my childhood, people would pull me aside

and say,

in not quite so many words, what's your mom's deal?

Like, not that they thought she was a crazy person.

They were just like trying to figure out if she was, you know, from Mallorca or something

or like Luxembourg.

So, Jesse, I have a question for you.

When your mom did this, how did it make you feel?

It's very disconcerting

and very embarrassing in certain situations.

It also led me as a kid to kind of unknowingly do it myself.

And my,

this is getting really real judgment, but you know, my parents divorced when I was very young.

And when I would do it unconsciously, it really upset my dad.

And so I would get in a fight with my dad.

about how I would talk like my mom when I had just come from my mom's house.

And it was like a really profound trauma in my childhood.

And again, I want to clarify that I love both my parents and they were both great parents overall.

Right, right.

Well, yeah, no, of course, because you were taking something back from your mom's house that your dad recognized.

Yeah, it was a weird situation.

So,

Alexandra, does any of that embarrassment, I mean, obviously you don't have Jesse's particular situation where he took on mom accent to his father's annoyance, but the feeling of embarrassment around your mom, does that resonate with you?

Definitely, Definitely, yeah.

I feel personally embarrassed.

I would say the core of my embarrassment is that when she does these accents, not always, but usually it's in a setting where we're at a restaurant or we're in a shop or we're checking into a hotel or there's some kind of like a service provider that she's doing this with.

And while she insists that this is just harmless fun and she's having a good time and it's all great, I see this little glint in their eye, this poor waiter or whatever.

And I know that, you know, they're probably feeling annoyed, maybe even offended hearing this woman, you know, sort of do this weird imitation accent of whatever they sort of sound like.

And I genuinely worry that they might be offended by this.

But that's a worry.

I mean, Dale says she's never been caught, that she's, it's a perfect crime.

Every time she comes into England, she goes, hello, governor.

They're like, oh, it's one of us.

So here's the thing.

But you dispute that.

You think she's been caught?

I dispute that very much.

Evidence.

Evidence.

Okay.

So I have seen looks of dismay.

I've seen glints.

We've been asked, you know, oh, where are you from?

Kind of the, what's your deal that.

Jesse would be asked.

Also, I did some Googling and I found.

I don't want to hear about your Googling just yet.

Okay.

Because you were pretty mushy.

I have to go with Dale on that.

Your evidence was pretty mushy.

Like, I saw a glint once.

Well, no.

Tell me a story.

Tell me a real specific story.

Okay.

Well, one time we were in South Carolina and we got into one of those pedicabs where, you know, the guy is kind of bicycling you around or gal.

And

where were you in South Carolina?

We were in Charleston.

We were in Carlos.

Beautiful city.

So beautiful, yes.

And my mom and I got onto the pedicab.

It may be one of the most beautiful cities in the south.

Don't you start.

I do declare.

Well,

I say it's one of the most beautiful southern cities there is.

So

it was late at night.

We had just seen a performance.

We were there for a theater festival.

And we got into the pedicab, start pedaling along.

My mom immediately, sort of with great gusto, launches into her best southern drawl, giving this young man directions where to go and whatnot.

But she was sort of tired.

It was the end of the day.

And after a few sentences, mom's southern accent rapidly begins to just sort of dissipate until she's back to speaking in her, you know, her California voice.

And it was subtle, but I saw this man sort of turn his head around, look confused, and just sort of heave a little quiet sigh of desperation as we pedaled along in the hot night.

And I knew that inside he was dying.

That's my evidence.

Hearsay.

He breathed an air of quiet desperation.

Wow, you do paint a word picture.

So, Dale, don't you think you got caught in that one?

Do you dispute that your southern accent faded?

I totally dispute this.

First of all, hearsay,

this is her interpretation of it.

Yeah, I heard her say it.

I heard her say it.

She was there.

Rubbish.

Absolute rubbish.

First of all, can people not have fun anymore?

Does everything have to be perfect?

I mean, don't you ever just want to have fun?

I mean,

no.

Yeah, I don't believe in fun.

And can parents not have fun?

At what point in my life can I just do what I want?

30, you have to stop having fun.

I have to stop or you have to stop.

I stopped having fun about five years ago, yeah.

I'm just starting to have fun again.

This is a real chore for me.

Tell me about how you're starting to have fun again.

Did you stop having fun for a while, Dale?

Well, only because I was probably exhausted.

But truthfully, I'm having a blast.

And I just want to do what I want to do.

It's the first time in years that I don't have to raise children and repress myself to make sure that they feel okay about everything.

And I just want my daughter to join me in my fun.

Like I join her in her fun.

I just started jogging because she jogs.

Do you jog in a foreign accent?

Absolutely.

It is much more fun to jog in French.

So, Alexandria has just turned 32.

Do you have any other children?

Many other children.

I have two others.

Can I say something about them in terms of this case, or do you not want me to say anything?

You can say whatever you want about them.

You're a mom.

You say everything about them.

I would like to say that my youngest daughter has submitted evidence in my favor in this case.

My son, sadly, sadly, has decided to be Switzerland.

He said he would take neither side, which I feel is very cowardly.

Do you do any accent work in Romanche?

No.

Where is your evidence from

your other daughter?

I'm looking forward to that.

I submitted a tape that my daughter made.

Three audio witness statements

have been presented to this court.

Thank you for handing me these MP3s, Bailiff Jesse.

Sure.

Lisa, we have have statement one from Dale's friend Sarah.

I want to be clear.

When you say thank you for handing me these MP3s, you mean thank you for squirting them to you using my Zune.

Exactly so.

Yeah.

Thank you for the regular Zune segment of the show.

We haven't had one of those for a while.

All right.

Statement number two from Dale's younger daughter, Olivia.

I'm going to listen to it.

I am Olivia's

youngest daughter and child to said accused Dale.

Growing up with an opera singer, artistic director, and producer as a mother may not have been your average household, but I assure you it was never dull.

We were given a lot of creative license and encouragement to use our imaginations and explore our own personal artistic talents.

So although I do find her southern accent questionable, as I lived in the south myself for over four years, I have no problem with her other accents and, in truth, have been known to speak in accents myself.

I

think perhaps it's in the DNA, as I believe my grandfather also spoke in foreign accents.

So, Judge, I feel you should rule in my mother's favor, and it is time for my other siblings to lighten up and learn tolerance and acceptance, and accept that my parents have rights too.

Thank you for your time, and thank you for listening.

Wow, live and direct from Rivendell, the willowy elf Olivia

has broadcast her psychic message to this court.

What's interesting though, Dale, is that she said she doesn't mind you doing accents except your southern accent kind of bothered her because she lived in the south for a while.

That's true.

That's true.

I'm considering giving up my southern accent since that seems to be

well, you know, there are many different southern accents.

She lived in Appalachia.

That's a different accent than the one I'm doing, which is pure, gone with the wind, Charleston, Savannah.

Do you have other southern accents?

Not really.

Are you like one of those people who does the 50-accent YouTube videos?

No, I'm not.

I might give up my southern accent just to do it.

But just to do it, I don't think that that's...

There's got to be a reason.

Well, it depends on your verdict, frankly, Judge.

I'm counting on you.

Well, I know, but I want you to explore why you would give up your southern accent, but not your various - do you do more than one English accent?

Definitely.

I do Cockney.

I do, you know, royalty peerage.

Yes, I do.

And my southern accent is pretty much the same.

I just feel like that seems to be a reoccurring theme that particularly offends my children.

And why do you think it does?

Honestly, I have no idea.

You know, maybe it's I don't want to get political here, but

I don't know.

I mean, where are you from originally in the world?

I mean, I grew up most of my life in California.

Right.

Southern California?

Southern California.

Well, then I guess you can do a Southern accent then.

I mean, you appreciate that there are particular cultural and class signifiers to various Southern accents.

Yes.

Do you know, and for someone not of the South to put it on

could be considered to be a little appropriative

in a way that might not be fun for someone who grew up there.

I understand.

I'm approaching all of this as an artist, not as a politician.

So when I do my accents, I'm really not thinking about, is this.

I don't think anyone had accused you of campaigning.

I mean, you know, when I do my accents, I was just with a friend of mine who's French, and we were both talking in English with a French accent.

Of course, his was...

was real and mine was fake, but

and then he was talking in English with a funny American accent.

So it's just something I do.

Well, I mean, you know, it's fun, isn't it?

It is.

I'd like to hear you, like in London, for example, doing one of those American accents that English people do that's just all ours.

Like, how are you?

I am doing well.

I'm going to work on that.

Not to critique any of the brilliant English actors who come over here and take American roles,

But there's also the way you just talk like this.

This is the other way you do an American accent.

If you're British, you just go flinty and dead.

My co-host on Jordan Jesse Go, Jordan Morris, has a very famous impression of, among the few thousand people that listen to Jordan Jesse Go,

of Liam Neeson doing an American accent where he just goes, uh-huh.

Yeah, uh-huh.

Yeah.

But there's a difference, don't you think, Dale, between having fun with your your friend who's French and doing

French-accented English with your pal in a private place versus going into a place of service and going, excuse me, do you have z kung pal chicken?

Actually, I have been in restaurants, unfortunately none with my daughter, I wish this had happened, where I have been talking in an accent and the waiter will start getting into the accent with me.

And the waiter's also not from wherever I was from.

Like I was in a restaurant recently and I started talking in French accent for no particular reason and the waiter was like an out-of-work actor.

He started talking in French accent and we had a fabulous time.

Well that was in Southern California wasn't it?

It actually was in Southern California.

Yeah.

No one's saying you can't do whatever you want in Southern California, believe me.

That's the whole point of Southern California.

But I'm glad you had fun with that waiter.

It was a lot of fun.

Yeah, I bet that waiter was actually having a good time and not just in the service industry.

Exactly.

Alexandra, your mom is so great.

You say that she's your hero.

Obviously, she's my hero, too.

We all acknowledge the problematics of someone going to another country, into another culture, and taking the way they talk and throwing it back at them while buying a le Big Mac or whatever.

But

this is a hard one because you want me to order her to stifle what clearly is not only a creative expression of hers, but something that almost seems like she has no control over, frankly.

Well, actually,

what I want is a little more nuanced.

Perhaps I could share what I want.

Please.

Okay.

I appreciate and I see that speaking in accents of any quality

brings my mom so much joy, and I I don't want to take that joy away from her.

My concern is around context and setting.

So for example, if my mom wants to call me on the phone and order lebig mark or whatever, that's the same thing.

By the way, Alexandra, that was terrible.

I know.

You need to take some lessons from your mom.

You were talking about context and situations.

If your mom were to call you up and go,

that would be one thing.

That's one thing, exactly.

If she wants to do accents on the the phone with me, in the privacy of our hotel room, you know, even amongst friends who are sort of, you know, give their consent, so to speak, and are in on it, and it's fun for them, all of that sort of private fun time is fine.

What I have an issue with is when we go into the restaurant, the hotel, the shop, whatever, we're in a public setting, and the person that she's doing the accent with, who is usually in a service provider role, so there's a little bit of a power dynamic kind of vibe going on, too.

That situation really embarrasses me.

I don't think it's appropriate.

I think that it's very problematic.

I want you to order her to not do that, the private accent.

Or if she absolutely must, I want her to say something like, Hello, I'm from California, but I love doing accents when I'm traveling.

Would you mind if I do my London accent?

Get out of this car right now!

This is like a straitjacket.

And then they can sort of, you know, be okay with it rather than her just launching into it, which I don't think is appropriate.

Aaron Powell, is your primary discomfort

around

her forcing a service person to go along with the act

or offending a foreign national,

whether that person be foreign in the sense of an actual foreign national or from a different culture and way of speaking, like Charleston, South Carolina.

Yeah, it's both.

I really genuinely worry that people, when they hear her doing this, feel

annoyed, confused, quite possibly offended.

And I know that this is a thing that happens, again, because of Googling, which I would be happy to talk about.

Now you want to talk about all your googlins.

Yes, I really do.

So I have done some Googling, and I have found that this issue of Americans using accents of wherever they're traveling just for funsies is actually such a big issue that there are whole message boards devoted to it where people say things like, it really bothers me, it's really annoying, you know, I'm a British woman, I don't appreciate it, I'm not here for your amusement, I can always see through it, I know it's not real.

So there are people out there, quite a lot of them, who actually don't like this.

And knowing that, why would you do that, knowing knowing that it could put people in this, in this position of discomfort?

You have submitted evidence to me from your Googlings.

Yes, many Googlings.

There isn't time to go over each of the quotes that you found, but there is one, an excerpt from an article entitled Don't Do a British Accent by Gina Moore Barrett.

I urge you all never to mimic another person's accent without permission.

This is a quote from this essay by Gina Moore Barrett.

I understand that for many people I've met, mimicking my accent is not something that is done out of spite.

Most would assure me the reason they do it is because they like it.

And I too am guilty of copying an accent out of admiration.

However, when someone tries to impersonate me, two things happen.

They do an awful job at it, and I instantly feel like a joke.

Mm-hmm.

How do you feel about that?

I think, not that I'm special in any way, but I do think I have a unique background, which is that I made my professional career and living

in the unions of Equity, Agma, and SAG doing accents and winning awards for it and working with dialect coaches.

So I don't think I'm just some Joe Schmo off the street who suddenly tries to talk in a British accent.

I've actually worked with some of the greatest actors and directors in the world, Sir Peter Hall, Jonathan Miller, Dudley Moore, all of whom I worked with while doing a lot of work.

You worked with Jonathan Miller and Dudley Moore?

Yes, I did.

All right, get out, Alexandra.

Your mom wins.

I think mom has to win because, I mean, the other thing I guess I feel, Judge, Judge,

in all fairness.

I'm sorry if you're offended, but I am a SAG member.

Exactly, exactly.

But I guess my feeling is, like, she, is she qualified to even judge my accent?

Yeah, what unions are you in?

And further to this point, judge, I mean, goodness sakes, it's like, I feel like I'm not.

No, don't you mean land sakes?

Landsakes and love.

I mean, is my daughter just turned into Martha Stewart Jr.?

I mean, it's like, it's so repressive.

I mean, at what point can we just have fun?

I just, ugh, I just wish that she would join me and light me.

You understand?

The fun you're talking about, Dale, is you're tricking people.

I am a performer.

I'm not tricking people.

I live in a world of make-believe.

I get paid to live in that world.

If you are on stage and you are doing an accent on stage, all the world's a stage, as you know.

Oh, my God.

All the world's a stage.

No, that's not true.

It is so true.

Ask William Shakespeare.

I think that was a metaphor.

Yeah, it was not.

I don't mean to speak out of school, but I don't think he meant that literally.

And I don't think he was describing you personally.

I didn't know, Mr.

Shakespeare, this is true, but I just feel like.

There also are no actual beasts with two backs.

No?

That's a Shakespeare thing.

Okay.

That is a metaphor, actually.

That's a metaphor.

Right.

Oh, the world is not all a stage.

There are stages.

That's why we call them that.

That's to differentiate them from life.

Yeah, like this is an audio production studio, for example.

To me, it's a stage.

Well, I know, but

what you do then is if you treat all the world as a stage,

then you are essentially suggesting that everyone around you is but an audience member who is there to validate your performance when in fact they are also real human beings.

Or they're also other performers part of my stage.

Yeah, but they maybe not want to be part of your play.

They just want to sell you a thing.

I don't.

But you really don't.

All I'm saying is, Dale, do you...

You must acknowledge.

This is is not even a question, this is a judicial order.

The fun and professional and creative reward that you have doing an accent on stage or the fun times you have with your friend,

that's a different kind of fun than when you go in and you're talking to the backside of a pedicab driver in Charleston, pretending that you're from South Carolina, because part of the fun is whether or not he's going to believe what you're doing.

You're tricking him.

I guess I would have to agree.

I was ordering you to agree, but I'm glad you came around to it on your own.

I understand your perspective.

John, I have more feelings to share, if it's okay.

Alexandra, I know you have more feelings to share, but we are short on time.

Never mind.

It's okay.

No, I want to hear one of your feelings.

Well,

so you kind of touched upon it a moment ago.

When my mom is doing her accents with the petty crab guy, with the hotel concierge, with the what, you know, whomever she's speaking to, another concern of mine is that, you know, if her accent is believable, which is questionable, in my opinion, no offense, mom,

there will come a time when this person will probably ask, so where are you from?

or something of that nature.

And then what?

It's like, how long do we keep this ruse alive?

And at some point she's going to have to tell the truth.

And then it just creates a very weird, inauthentic dynamic.

It's an impediment to maybe creating a real friendship or a relationship if you begin all of this with sort of a performance rather than just being your wonderful self, which is the mom that I love so much.

So that is a concern of mine as well.

Trevor Burrus: And may I say that part of the evidence that you submitted to me is a quote, The greatest gift you ever give is your honest self from Fred Rogers.

She's obsessed with Fred Robert

Rogers.

Yeah, as well, everyone should be.

Judge, can I share a feeling?

You may share one feeling.

My feeling is this.

I think that

a big part of my personality is creative and fantasy.

And I think at some point, let's face it, parents are put on earth to embarrass their children.

And I absolutely think that I've done a fair amount of that.

Believe me.

I used to sing arias, and my son would just, you know, quiver and shake and beg me not to sing in public.

And that's, I get that.

I was embarrassed by my father with the stuff that he did.

But I think at this point, it's kind of like, this is what you got.

It's pretty good.

Can't we just all get along?

To quote Rodney King.

A truly appropriate quotation.

I think I've heard everything I need in order to make my decision.

I'm going to hop in my pedicab

and go around the cobblestone streets a few times as I think this one over.

I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Alexandra, I'm going to start with you.

How are you feeling about your chances right now?

I'm feeling pretty good.

You know, I think that the judge sees what I am trying to get across.

I think we've all heard my mom's strange outbursts of accents.

You know, I'm just, I'm feeling good, feeling calm,

feeling good about all this.

And Dale,

how are you feeling about your chances in this case?

Pour moi c'est mystère.

I feel the whole thing is so mysterious.

I have no idea.

We are really going to talk in French accents, just so you know.

Okay, I absolutely will talk in a French accent.

I mean, I really feel that Judge Haj, I believe his name is,

listened very well, listened very carefully.

I feel he will make a very fair judgment.

Well, there's only one way to find out.

We will have to see what he has to say when we come back in just a moment.

Hello, should I do this a little bit more broadly?

I love it.

We'll be back in just a second on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.

Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join.

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please rise as judge john hodgman re-enters the courtroom judge hodge judge hodge

and no judge hodge

It's actually probably easier to say than the actual name of the podcast.

Judge John Hodgman.

It's hard to say.

terrible my name is terrible and everything's wrong oh dale you are a delight you have raised a delightful uh daughter daughters olivia also is she a sindarin elf i don't in any case she's wonderful i don't know about your swiss son but uh i don't wish in any way to deny you your fun now that you have uh raised those kids and have some time to yourself and obviously you have many distinct qualifications, a big key word that we have here, and a delight and pleasure that you take in the creative arts.

And doing accents is a fun thing to do in an atmosphere of mutual respect and affirmative consent, and everyone knows what's going on.

And I certainly would never, ever, ever deny you your

whatever given right

as a mom to embarrass your children in any aspect possible, to embarrass them and to make them uncomfortable at home and even abroad.

But not all the world is a stage, and not all the humans on earth are your children who are there for you to recruit into your on-the-spot improv for your own amusement, leaving them, another person, to be embarrassed or confused.

or feel that they need to play along in order to get through this awkward social situation and may even be offended.

We've already been through on this podcast how making an awkward joke like, I'll have the kung pow chicken in every single service situation, from buying a donut to going through a toll booth, which is what happened on a weird dad would make the same joke in every service situation, was taking advantage of a power differential such that the dad thought that everyone was enjoying his joke, but everyone who had ever worked in the service industry within the sound of my voice was like, oh, no, don't make a confusing joke.

I'm just trying to do my job.

And now I have to pretend that I like your joke because it's part of my job to pretend to like your joke.

And the dad had a rude awakening when he realized that he was basically taking advantage of a power differential

that was to his advantage and in an unfair way.

And as I say, you make your daughter embarrassed, but don't confuse the guy who is using his own leg power to move you around Charleston.

He is doing enough for you.

Because

what you are doing at a certain level, if you're not doing the weird thing that no one would ever do, but Alexander suggested, which is you say, hey, I'd like to play a little game where I talk in your accent for a while,

the whole gag is a little bit of trickery.

And I think that what it speaks to really is how it undermines, I think as Alexandra put very eloquently, and now I'm going to say in a very awkward and back and forth way, the very purpose of travel, which is to introduce yourself to the world and be introduced to the world and allow the world to come to you and to you to come to it, in a gesture of openness and curiosity.

And

if the idea of travel is to broaden your world, it is to the benefit of that idea that you present your honest self, a la Fred Rogers.

There are other aspects of this that make taking on of accents problematic, and I know that you appreciate this on a basic level because, thank heavens or whatever, you're not coming in here talking about how

when you go into a black neighborhood, you take on a traditional, you know, African-American urban accent.

Or when you go into a Chinatown, you don't speak in a Chinese-inflected English accent.

That on its face would obviously be inappropriate.

And I say that as someone who just narrated an audio book, Warren Ellis' new book, Normal, in which much to my voice, there was a character who had a Jamaican accent.

And I had to find a way to capture what the author wanted everyone to hear, but also not be the gross white guy doing a Jamaican accent.

If you want to hear how bad it got, you can buy the book.

I don't get anything from it, but it's a great book anyway, and you can listen to my terrible accent in it.

In the end, he just settled on his regular voice, intermittently punctuated with dance hall air horns.

That made Paul Ruest really jump to

the audio board.

So, you know, I think it is a given that those are boundaries that you would not cross because you're staying mostly within kind of the traditional, like, we're all white people, so it's okay if I do an English accent here in England.

French-accented English is such a staple of sort of

comedy and whatever else, it's like it's not a big deal if you do it.

But it still is something, if you are going to another country and you are taking all of those English accents as you know, because you got you are a SAG member, you know, all of those English accents aren't just a funny way of talking.

They connote a place in society, they connote a kind of history, they connote who they are in the world.

And taking that on and putting it on like a costume is, in a sense, to suggest, I already know everything I need to know about this situation.

I don't need to learn about you.

I can be you

because I have a SAG card.

This is coming down on you pretty hard right now, Dale, and I don't mean to.

I know that basically in life, you just are having a good time.

And gosh knows.

I feel you because I am embarrassed every time I go to the American South when I start hearing, I just go into a twang.

And sometimes when I'm up in Maine, I start talking like,

like it just, it happens because if you have that ear for it and you love the musicality of language, you want to do it.

So,

what do I mean?

What does this come down to?

Well,

I think

you should be mindful of these issues when you are traveling with Alexandra in the future.

And since it seems like you are impulsive in the most delightful way and you might just jump into it at any time, I empower Alexandra, indeed order her,

to say right away, my mom is not from Charleston.

If you start talking in that Maggie Smith talk when you go to London next time with Alexandra, Alexandra, you got to step in and go, I'm sorry.

My mom is from Southern California.

But generally, I would say, please don't.

Don't do that.

Instead, present yourself as yourself, the wonderful person that you are, and get to know the person.

And maybe over time, they will be like your French friend who loves it that you do that French accent.

Now, among friends,

and I hope that I can count you as a friend on my podcast, you can talk any way you want.

So long as it's not offensive.

You can do any accent you want all the live-long day.

And on the phone with Alexandra or at the dinner table in your house, go for it.

Have fun.

I don't want you to not have fun.

And I would dare say, even in Southern California,

like this is the one exception to the service rule that I would say.

In Southern California, where truly all the world is a stage and everyone is an aspiring current or former actor,

where

every waiter just wants to do an accent with you, too, for the most part, I guess.

You should give it a try.

It's fun.

Because

whereas you go out to the rest of the world and you want to present your honest self, in Los Angeles no one's presenting their honest self.

You're all lying to each other.

That's why I love visiting.

So I do find in Alexandra's favor, but I do it with the caveat that

I do not wish to diminish your spirit in any way, Dale.

I don't want you to not have fun.

I want you to continue to do your voices.

But I want you to present the honest, wonderful Dale that you are when you are traveling abroad, whether that's overseas or here at home.

This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules, that is all.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Dale, how do you feel about this mixed verdict?

It's going to take me a long time to digest all of this.

I don't know.

I will accept it,

but I do have to say I'm disappointed.

How about you, Alexander?

How are you feeling?

I feel really great about this.

I think this is going to be a good thing.

I think that travel is going to be much less stressful and fraught with political, social, cultural tension.

And I love that the judge emphasized that this is not about diminishing my mom's joy and fun times, but rather being just a little more mindful about how her joy and fun times might be affecting others, which is exactly what I was hoping for.

So I'm very happy.

Well, Dale Alexandra, thanks for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years, and

maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened, and you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

But no, no, you would be wrong.

We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Yeah.

You don't even really know how crypto works.

The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

And if not, we just leave it out back.

goes rotten.

So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show.

Let's Learn Everything.

So let's do a quick progress check.

Have we learned about quantum physics?

Yes, episode 59.

We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we?

Yes, we have.

Same episode, actually.

Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Episode 64.

So, how close are we to learning everything?

Bad news.

We still haven't learned everything yet.

Oh, we're ruined.

No, no, no, it's good news as well.

There is still a lot to learn.

Woo!

I'm Dr.

Ella Hubber.

I'm regular Tom Lum.

I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Another thrilling case comes to its conclusion, Judge Hodgman.

What?

Is that Jesse?

Hello.

Hello, my good judge.

It is good to see you here.

It is me, Josh Hosch.

Are we going to do the entire last segment of the show in these ridiculous accents?

No, because it turns out French people have feelings too.

Oh, got it.

So we should do them in these English accents then.

All right, then.

What's going on then with Max FunCon and Max Von Con West?

Is all this then about Max FunCons?

Tickets are on sale to Max FunCon in Lake Arrowhead, California, here in Southern California in June.

And Max FunCon East, which is in the Poconos,

What's that?

Memorial Day weekend?

Labor Day weekend.

That's the one that's late in summer.

Labor Day weekend in the Poconos.

Both of these are like amazing, life-changing experiences.

Ask anybody who's been to one.

You can get your tickets online at maxfuncon.com, and I think they are very close to selling out.

So maxfuncon.com, go there, and you can get your tickets to that.

And also, Judge, you and I are both headed to San Francisco and Chicago for SF Sketch Fest, where we'll be doing Judge John Hodgman.

I'll be doing Jordan Jesse Goh.

And we're also going to Very, Very Fun Day in Chicago, which I think

it may be sold out by the time this show comes out because we are real close as we record this.

But I think we will have some tickets at the door.

And that is a one-day, very, very fun day podcast festival of maximum funnishness, which includes live shows from Judge John Hodgman, The Flop House, Stop Podcasting Yourself, Jordan, Jesse Go, Tights and Fights, and more.

So all of that information is online at maximumfun.org.

Special thanks this week to David Dwyer, who named our case.

If you'd like to name a case,

like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook and follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman.

It's easy and fun.

And if you have a case for Judge John Hodgman, especially if you live in the San Francisco Bay Area or in Chicago, go to maximumfund.org slash JJHO and submit your case there.

Be sure to let us know if you live in San Francisco or Chicago because we're looking for cases for our live justice appearances in those cities.

Jennifer Marmer is our producer.

Thanks this week to Reed Harvey, our engineer in Portland, Oregon.

And Paul Ruest here at Argo Studios in New York City.

You can join us online at maximumfund.reddit.com or on Twitter with the hashtag JJHO as well as on Facebook.

And we'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

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