Live From Brooklyn, NY 2016

Speaker 1 Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman Podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.
This week's episode was recorded live with a live audience at the Bell House in Brooklyn, New York.

Speaker 1 We just want to let you know before we get into things that this week's musical guest, the Pitch Black Brass Band, has a little bit of strong language in the songs on the show.

Speaker 1 In case you're listening with kids and you don't want them to hear it. But seriously, they were really great.

Speaker 3 Tonight from Brooklyn, shut your drawer hole.

Speaker 3 Rob brings the case against his girlfriend Caitlin. He's tired of her clutter and her tendency to leave drawers open.
Caitlin is a student who also works.

Speaker 4 She wants Rob to cut her a little slack.

Speaker 3 Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise, metaphorically,

Speaker 3 as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers the obscure cultural reference.

Speaker 7 In my father's many mansions,

Speaker 11 On the uppermost floors, reside the righteous few who've always closed their dresser drawers.

Speaker 8 In perdition's lonesome tenements, the damned dwell in their caves where the dresser drawers hang open like freshly ransacked graves.

Speaker 20 Bailiff Jesse Thorne, please swear them in.

Speaker 3 Please raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? So help you, God, or whatever?

Speaker 21 I do. I do.

Speaker 3 Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he does not believe in drawers, preferring satchels?

Speaker 21 I do.

Speaker 22 I do.

Speaker 21 Very well, Judge Hodgman.

Speaker 24 That's absolutely right, Bill, Jesse Thorne.

Speaker 27 I don't have a bureau in my bedroom, just a series of sacks.

Speaker 28 Sacks and hooks, just like the Amish had.

Speaker 29 I'm not proud.

Speaker 32 Rob and Caitlin, for an immediate summary judgment in one of yours favors, can either of you identify the piece of culture I referenced as I entered the courtroom.

Speaker 35 Caitlin, you have been brought here against your will

Speaker 26 by Rob, your husband?

Speaker 36 Is that correct? No, boyfriend.

Speaker 18 Boyfriend.

Speaker 18 Boyfriend with whom you live, right?

Speaker 8 Yes.

Speaker 38 I'm just making a note of that.

Speaker 40 You have the opportunity to guess first or to make Rob guess first.

Speaker 11 Which shall it be?

Speaker 42 I'm going to make Rob guess first.

Speaker 44 That is a classic maneuver.

Speaker 9 Everyone does it.

Speaker 24 And I mean everyone.

Speaker 17 Mix it up next time.

Speaker 44 Litigans for the second case.

Speaker 5 But no,

Speaker 45 though I prejudge you, I am not prejudiced.

Speaker 11 I shall take your guess.

Speaker 8 What is your guess?

Speaker 47 I'm going to guess Walt Whitman.

Speaker 23 Walt Whitman

Speaker 25 of Brooklyn, New York. Pandering.

Speaker 26 That's what that is.

Speaker 23 Local pandering.

Speaker 30 All right, Caitlin, you've heard your guess.

Speaker 27 That's in the guess book.

Speaker 32 What is your guess?

Speaker 18 It sounded like a Robert Frost poem.

Speaker 9 Robert Frost poem, because that's a poet, right?

Speaker 48 No, it did really sound.

Speaker 48 I don't really know many poets, but I do know Robert Frost.

Speaker 18 Sure,

Speaker 18 exactly right.

Speaker 48 Yeah, but it sounded like.

Speaker 48 It's not my field.

Speaker 38 It reminds me, just recently, those of you who follow my Instagram feed at John Hodgman, because Hodgman was taken by some jerk.

Speaker 52 I was down at the Faulkner bookstore in Pirates Alley, New Orleans, and I overheard someone saying, look at that.

Speaker 32 Collected poems of Robert Frost.

Speaker 49 I have that.

Speaker 30 Hey, look at that.

Speaker 17 Elements of style.

Speaker 17 I have that too.

Speaker 15 The saddest brags of all time.

Speaker 30 But all guesses are wrong.

Speaker 53 Judge Hodgman.

Speaker 3 English 101 syllabus. Gotta catch them all.

Speaker 54 All guesses are wrong.

Speaker 50 So when this case was submitted to me, you may not know this, Rob, but your non-wife, Caitlin,

Speaker 31 beseeched, please, please do not choose lyrics to a mountain goat's song,

Speaker 43 because Rob will probably get it.

Speaker 9 Because, according to Caitlin, Rob, you are an expert.

Speaker 4 Incorrect.

Speaker 57 Well.

Speaker 3 And judge, to be fair, secondarily also, because over 60% of these are the lyrics of mountain goat songs.

Speaker 58 As is this one. These are lyrics to a mountain goat song.

Speaker 30 Rob,

Speaker 58 can you guess the title of this mountain goat song?

Speaker 3 I'm going to go with drawers. All guesses are wrong!

Speaker 58 Because it has no title.

Speaker 9 Because when Caitlin said, Don't let it be a mountain goat song,

Speaker 9 I texted my friend, John Darnell,

Speaker 23 and said, I know you're on tour right now with your band the Mountain Goats and are probably very busy, but would you please write lyrics to a new song that involved open drawers?

Speaker 18 And John said, I am very busy.

Speaker 9 I'm not sure if I can get to it.

Speaker 52 And I said, no problem, I've got a backup in in case you need it.

Speaker 34 An E.B. White quote.

Speaker 61 In case, don't worry about it.

Speaker 51 But then five minutes later came those lyrics.

Speaker 59 And then two minutes later came a whole other set of lyrics that I didn't have time to read to you.

Speaker 45 That's how John Darneal does it.

Speaker 37 So

Speaker 9 we have to move on and hear this case.

Speaker 34 Rob, you believe that Caitlin, your non-wife with whom you live, here in Brooklyn?

Speaker 47 No, Upper West Side, Manhattan.

Speaker 27 Upper West Side. Thank you for making the trip, by the way.

Speaker 21 No problem. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 65 From away, we have Rob and Caitlin.

Speaker 27 And Rob, you say that Caitlin is too messy and she leaves the drawers open.

Speaker 17 Is that correct?

Speaker 47 That's saying the least.

Speaker 47 Many other things get left open.

Speaker 27 I say the least and then you say the most.

Speaker 23 Let's elaborate, please. Sure.

Speaker 67 Thank you for taking the cue.

Speaker 3 No problem.

Speaker 3 This is a letter he wrote to his mother during the Civil War.

Speaker 12 Let the record show that Rob has

Speaker 27 opened a piece of paper that has

Speaker 3 a few ideas for logos for his metal band.

Speaker 27 Looks a little bit, from my point of view, like something that was found in Kevin Spacey's Journal in Seven.

Speaker 18 But go ahead.

Speaker 8 We do not grade on penmanship here at the Judge John Sean Ogman podcast.

Speaker 47 So Caitlin's not dirty or unhygienic, but she's totally fine with living amongst a lot of clutter and disarray.

Speaker 47 But the nature of the clutter is very distinct. Like she just will open a drawer, not shut it, open a cabinet, not shut it.

Speaker 14 Now, this is why I wanted to hear this case.

Speaker 41 Caitlin,

Speaker 69 is this accusation true?

Speaker 34 Because if it's true, that's bonkers.

Speaker 68 Just so you know where I'm coming from.

Speaker 28 And I won't recuse myself

Speaker 31 because I have been looking for vengeance on this subject

Speaker 70 since I lived in college with a woman named Theo who left every cupboard open every time.

Speaker 59 And I kabonked my head into those cupboards all the time.

Speaker 58 It seems to me a simple part of the social contract

Speaker 59 with your furniture

Speaker 59 that if you open it, you complete the cycle.

Speaker 6 Do you leave drawers open?

Speaker 31 And that's my question.

Speaker 48 Yes.

Speaker 48 But

Speaker 48 it's not on purpose. It's not because I want.

Speaker 28 Are you saying your thoughtlessness is not on purpose?

Speaker 49 Yes.

Speaker 22 Yes.

Speaker 48 I have a lot happening that tends to distract me when I'm doing literally anything. And I do close more drawers than I leave open.

Speaker 62 But.

Speaker 62 At your house?

Speaker 44 Or are you going elsewhere and closing other drawers to make up the gap?

Speaker 39 Generally speaking, yeah.

Speaker 74 What's going on in your life that's so distracting that you can't close a drawer?

Speaker 48 Well, I am a full-time student in a

Speaker 48 full-time student, and I also have two jobs, and I am involved in a lot of

Speaker 48 political student organizing as well.

Speaker 34 What is your

Speaker 17 graduate student, I presume?

Speaker 48 No, so I'm actually a returning undergrad graduate student because I never did that when I was the right age.

Speaker 17 You didn't take any college at all?

Speaker 48 I did, but I dropped out.

Speaker 3 There's no such thing as the right age to go to college. If, as I do, you believe in a a love of lifelong learning.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 25 Caitlin, I would like to hear a little bit more about your journey.

Speaker 34 You took a little bit of college when you were graduated from high school, right?

Speaker 32 Yes.

Speaker 70 And

Speaker 9 what college did you matriculate upon?

Speaker 77 So

Speaker 22 I

Speaker 48 will refer to myself as a collector of college credits at

Speaker 48 various different institutions across the Northeast. I started at a place called Albright College in Reading, Pennsylvania.

Speaker 70 Don't know it.

Speaker 48 That I stayed there for one semester.

Speaker 23 Sounds like a scam.

Speaker 78 It might have been.

Speaker 48 And then I transferred to Temple University in Philadelphia.

Speaker 23 Sure.

Speaker 48 And I stayed there for one semester. And then I took one class at a community college.
And then I took several classes at Ramapo College in Mawa, New Jersey.

Speaker 21 Mawa.

Speaker 75 Mawah.

Speaker 45 One of the great township names of all time.

Speaker 48 And now I am a student at Columbia University.

Speaker 51 That sounds fantastic.

Speaker 43 And so,

Speaker 32 to what do you attribute your wandering, your educational wanderings?

Speaker 38 Did you always have an idea of what you wanted to do, or was your mind changing, or was there another motive?

Speaker 48 It was more just that I wasn't happy at the schools with the academic programs or the really anything about them I didn't like.

Speaker 48 Their wonderful programmes.

Speaker 59 I mean, you weren't happy with Albright College, which was basically a tent in the middle of a field with some carnies wandering around taking your chicks.

Speaker 49 That is very accurate.

Speaker 24 No offense to any alumni of

Speaker 76 Albright College, I'm sure, is a fine learning institute.

Speaker 3 By the way, really good job conjugating alumni.

Speaker 5 Just like how

Speaker 45 I do what I can

Speaker 41 occasionally.

Speaker 31 And so when you went...

Speaker 79 Just so I can get a sense of your whole journey, when you matriculated at Albright Tent School, your major was probably going to be

Speaker 48 filmmaking.

Speaker 20 Filmmaking.

Speaker 14 And now you're at Columbia studying.

Speaker 36 Politics.

Speaker 35 Politics.

Speaker 34 And how far away are you from your undergraduate degree?

Speaker 48 I will be finishing in May.

Speaker 17 Oh, fantastic.

Speaker 36 Congratulations.

Speaker 76 And without inquiring too directly towards your age, how long has this journey been from first semester, first year to graduation this year, would you say?

Speaker 48 It's okay. I'm comfortable with my age.

Speaker 77 I'm 30 years old.

Speaker 5 Well done.

Speaker 48 I will be graduating at.

Speaker 75 Fantastic.

Speaker 27 And have you enjoyed yourself up there at Columbia?

Speaker 52 Oh, yes. I love it there.

Speaker 48 It's wonderful.

Speaker 12 And you're also involved with a lot of extracurriculars?

Speaker 48 Yes, that is correct.

Speaker 8 And explain what that is to me.

Speaker 48 So I do a lot of stuff with the political science department. I am the president of the Political Science Honor Society and I was

Speaker 48 previously the president of just the general major, the major club.

Speaker 48 I also do a lot of,

Speaker 48 I'm one of the leaders of the Columbia University Students for Hillary

Speaker 48 and just generally a lot of stuff surrounding civic engagement and student voting and getting involved with local government. Fantastic.

Speaker 80 And what will you do when you get your bachelor's degree?

Speaker 5 I don't know. Right.

Speaker 27 But if you had an idea, if you had to, I mean, maybe take another 10 years to just sort of drift around for a while.

Speaker 48 I actually hope to work

Speaker 48 immediately after graduating. I would love to do something with global development.

Speaker 48 I currently have, one of my jobs is in that field, so I really am enjoying that and I would like to pursue that more.

Speaker 17 You know that an appearance on the Judge John Hodgman podcast is considered to be a fast track to the Bilderberg group.

Speaker 12 So get ready to get some calls.

Speaker 23 I hope your resume is printed out and that

Speaker 51 your human lizard qualifications are in order.

Speaker 9 Very good. Yes.
Let the record show she attempted to remove her human guise.

Speaker 46 But these people are not ready for that yet, so I stopped her.

Speaker 43 So, Rob,

Speaker 27 you have a fascinating girlfriend.

Speaker 23 I know.

Speaker 32 May I ask what is your educational history?

Speaker 46 You went to some college for four years and then decided you would work at a website?

Speaker 5 That is correct.

Speaker 28 What is your age, if not 30?

Speaker 20 29.

Speaker 46 You're 29, and you live on the Upper West West Side because Caitlin is attending Columbia, or are you have work up there?

Speaker 47 That's right.

Speaker 47 We live in a campus apartment, not a dorm, but a

Speaker 21 campus owned apartment.

Speaker 5 Of course.

Speaker 31 On what street?

Speaker 69 114th.

Speaker 80 114.

Speaker 8 You know, I used to live on 104th Street in Columbus.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 67 You ever go to Coronet Pizza?

Speaker 75 Yes.

Speaker 25 There's no point.

Speaker 8 I don't need your judgment.

Speaker 49 Hello,

Speaker 30 Jesse.

Speaker 50 Coronet Pizza on Broadway and

Speaker 62 the Street.

Speaker 30 I remember it so well.

Speaker 27 The pizza, each slice of pizza is as large as my bench.

Speaker 77 Fantastic.

Speaker 3 Why did he greet that news with a wistful sigh?

Speaker 47 Because a large slice of pizza does not a good slice of pizza make.

Speaker 8 This court disagrees with you.

Speaker 47 There's no good slice in that neighborhood. It's really terrible.

Speaker 33 He seems like you have a lot of complaints about a lot of things.

Speaker 47 Mostly food-related.

Speaker 29 Did you attend a four-year university?

Speaker 50 I did. And what was that, I may ask?

Speaker 3 Emerson College in Boston.

Speaker 9 Emerson College in Boston.

Speaker 8 And communications or stand-up comedy?

Speaker 47 That's a legitimate question.

Speaker 60 Communications. Communications.
And

Speaker 29 what is your job now?

Speaker 3 I'm a copywriter.

Speaker 70 Copywriter at a company?

Speaker 10 Yes. All right, good.

Speaker 72 And

Speaker 71 may the record also show that you are wearing an old-timey sports hat of some kind.

Speaker 9 What is the...

Speaker 27 to me, it's a J and a C.

Speaker 81 Is that the baseball team of Jesus Christ?

Speaker 47 It's the Jersey City Giants. They were a team that existed in the 1950s and then they were the farm league for the Giants.

Speaker 46 I can tell you you want to talk about this all night, sir.

Speaker 55 Great news, so do I. Let's get into it.

Speaker 6 I have to say it's a very handsome hat.

Speaker 70 So how long have you guys been living together in university-owned housing?

Speaker 48 So we've been living in university housing for a little more than two years, but we've been living together in other apartments for about three and a half years.

Speaker 14 Okay, and Rob, has this always been a problem for you, Caitlin's untidiness?

Speaker 47 It's always existed, but it's not really been

Speaker 47 an issue that affects my life until we move into this apartment, which is significantly smaller than our previous apartment.

Speaker 16 And I believe, I'm sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 3 Rob, could you describe, if I were to walk into your apartment on a typical day, what might I find open a jar or a skew?

Speaker 16 It's that great party game.

Speaker 6 You can pick three people, open a jar or a skew.

Speaker 59 Look at your face.

Speaker 44 Open a jar or a skew.

Speaker 30 All right, go ahead.

Speaker 47 There's a desk that is to to your immediate left as you enter the apartment, and usually the cabinet of that, well, not usually, but frequently the cabinet of that will be open, possibly also the drawers.

Speaker 47 Kitchen, there might be some drawers open, and also bedroom, there might be some dresser drawers open.

Speaker 3 Now, Caitlin, there could be a perfectly reasonable explanation for all of this. Are you putting away clean sheets or perhaps

Speaker 3 looking for a place for a baby to sleep in a circa 1910 tenement?

Speaker 48 Frequently, I will open a drawer and I'll leave it open because I will be needing to go back to it multiple times, and it seems like it's open.

Speaker 55 And once it's closed, that's the end of that.

Speaker 48 Well, it seems like excess work.

Speaker 48 It's more effort to, like, if you're going to be going in and out of it, you leave it open. And then frequently.

Speaker 3 You're doing like a reverse Fitbit thing, were you?

Speaker 15 You're trying to minimize your steps.

Speaker 48 Yes, and then frequently

Speaker 22 I have

Speaker 48 get pulled away from whatever the task that I'm doing, either because something is demanding my time or it's because I get distracted with something else that I have to do.

Speaker 77 So I.

Speaker 23 You're too busy.

Speaker 8 You're too busy to close a drawer. I got it.

Speaker 30 Okay, Rob.

Speaker 48 I'm too busy to remember to close the drawer. I understand.

Speaker 7 Rob, you entered some, you have some evidence that you want to present to the court?

Speaker 9 Sure. Visual evidence.

Speaker 47 I submitted it, yes.

Speaker 73 Or have it with me.

Speaker 67 Bailiff Jesse, let's see the evidence.

Speaker 46 We'll enter this as exhibit A.

Speaker 13 It's going to come up on the screen behind me.

Speaker 17 And I'm not going to bother to turn around until I know that it's up there.

Speaker 85 Is it up there, guys?

Speaker 23 Thank you very much.

Speaker 29 I'm just trying to minimize my steps.

Speaker 3 You could have known that it was up there by the disturbed gasp that just came out of the audience.

Speaker 9 Okay, what I see here are some ripped-up envelopes on top of a butcher block counter.

Speaker 9 What are we seeing, Rob?

Speaker 21 It's actually on the floor.

Speaker 69 Oh, the floor, excuse me.

Speaker 44 I'm sorry.

Speaker 18 In my house, I keep an oriental rug on top of our counters.

Speaker 47 I should preface and say that

Speaker 47 in anticipation of the podcast, Caitlin seemed to try to minimize the clutter,

Speaker 47 but I still found a lot of stuff leaving.

Speaker 60 Oh, so this is post-minimalization.

Speaker 3 That's right. I see.
Very well.

Speaker 33 Let's see the next slide, please.

Speaker 47 So, this is a water bottle that's been been there for about a week.

Speaker 3 And by there, you mean where?

Speaker 47 It's on our bathroom sink, right in like prime elbow knocking over space. Right.

Speaker 3 And prime water bottle space, of course, in anyone's home.

Speaker 46 You also managed to sneak in some buzz marketing for Myers Clean Day and water pick

Speaker 40 and reach toothbrushes.

Speaker 6 All right, so how come that water bottle is there all the time?

Speaker 3 Before we look at the next slide, can I just indicate that in this apartment they have six toothbrushes?

Speaker 45 Zadi. You know what?

Speaker 12 I appreciate your careful eye, Bailiff Jesse.

Speaker 26 Forget about the water bottle. Why do you guys have so many toothbrushes?

Speaker 53 Hold on, hold on, time out. Six manual toothbrushes and two electric toothbrushes and one water pick.

Speaker 17 Answer, what is the reason for that?

Speaker 49 I honestly don't know.

Speaker 5 Have you ever?

Speaker 48 We have very good dental hygiene.

Speaker 65 How many,

Speaker 46 Caitlin, how many times a day do you brush your teeth?

Speaker 82 Like two or three.

Speaker 24 Two or three.

Speaker 17 All right, now you said the socially acceptable answer. What is the actual answer?

Speaker 48 No, really, probably three.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 14 And why do you have so many toothbrushes and electric and all that kind of stuff?

Speaker 48 Well, one of them, the blue one up front, is my travel toothbrush that I'll bring with me.

Speaker 5 Trappy tooth.

Speaker 22 And then

Speaker 48 the other ones I'm not sure.

Speaker 47 I have a theory.

Speaker 30 Go on.

Speaker 47 I think we just have

Speaker 47 left a bunch of toothbrushes there that we've used in the past because we think it looks cooler in that little rack right there.

Speaker 30 You're right, it does look pretty cool.

Speaker 62 Next slide, please.

Speaker 3 If anybody here works for Dwell Magazine, call us after and we'll hook you up with that toothbrush picture.

Speaker 62 So here we have a set of drawers.

Speaker 68 Not only are they open, but they're open in an almost Aztec step pyramid array.

Speaker 3 Is this your tribute to Chichen Itza?

Speaker 31 What's going on here, Caitlin?

Speaker 48 Mornings are difficult for me.

Speaker 39 So when I'm getting ready,

Speaker 48 I usually will wear more than one outfit before I leave the house. And

Speaker 48 this is the byproduct of that.

Speaker 18 Wait a minute.

Speaker 80 Do you wear more than one?

Speaker 83 You try on a bunch of outfits?

Speaker 48 Yes.

Speaker 16 Okay.

Speaker 38 How many on balance?

Speaker 27 As many as toothbrushing sessions?

Speaker 48 I would say two.

Speaker 12 Two or three.

Speaker 2 Yeah, right. Okay, gotcha.

Speaker 7 Next slide.

Speaker 37 Whoa.

Speaker 69 Now, here we see what I can only describe as a cold cream cairn.

Speaker 29 Three bottles of moisturizer stacked on top of each other.

Speaker 86 And then

Speaker 30 very...

Speaker 28 Another electric toothbrush

Speaker 62 trying to

Speaker 26 stay incognito behind them.

Speaker 58 Say, I'm not an electric toothbrush.

Speaker 59 I'm just a tall thing in a a pink hat.

Speaker 59 Well, how could I be a toothbrush?

Speaker 29 I'm standing behind this tower of cold cream with a watted-up piece of Kleenex at my feet.

Speaker 59 I certainly wouldn't be a toothbrush.

Speaker 29 Next slide, please.

Speaker 14 Now we come to the pizza box cairn.

Speaker 27 Rob, you're incapable of picking this stuff up.

Speaker 47 I'm very capable. In fact, I picked it up right after I took the photo.

Speaker 76 Do you have any?

Speaker 32 I mean, you're a student,

Speaker 12 and Robbie has some job or whatever it is.

Speaker 13 I presume you don't have someone helping out with the cleaning around the house at this time

Speaker 4 in your lives.

Speaker 47 We've gotten, we've, you know, paid for cleaning services here and there, maybe twice in this apartment, but that's

Speaker 3 each time they've refused to return.

Speaker 49 Yeah, right.

Speaker 59 Okay, how many more slides do we have?

Speaker 30 I'm not sure. That was it.
All right, good.

Speaker 26 Somehow I knew.

Speaker 61 So, what would you have me order if I were to find in your favor, Rob?

Speaker 47 I would order that Caitlin becomes more diligent about picking up after herself because a lot of this stuff can be remedied in like less than ten seconds. I would also maybe order

Speaker 47 more of a deeper dive into organization

Speaker 47 via maybe some learnings from

Speaker 47 the life-changing magic of tidying up or other such.

Speaker 6 How many copies of that book do you have at your house?

Speaker 31 There's one at the moment.

Speaker 29 Five of them stacked on top of each other with a toothbrush hiding behind it.

Speaker 81 Rob, Caitlin, I don't want to be personal, but do you think that you will continue cohabiting for much longer in your lives?

Speaker 32 Absolutely. And

Speaker 34 maybe moving towards a legal partnership called marriage?

Speaker 47 Certainly.

Speaker 17 And have you proposed?

Speaker 53 No.

Speaker 87 And

Speaker 8 is this kind of an ultimatum?

Speaker 49 No. No.

Speaker 30 All right.

Speaker 9 I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

Speaker 23 Please rise.

Speaker 9 I'm going to go into my chambers and take a little nap on my nest of toothbrushes, and I'll be back in a moment to give you my decision.

Speaker 3 Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Speaker 3 Rob, how do you feel living in a house like this?

Speaker 47 I feel

Speaker 47 most of the time, baseline, fantastic. Love Caitlin very, very much, but sometimes it does add some stress

Speaker 47 to my life.

Speaker 3 Caitlin, I guess the part that I'm not understanding here, and I hope that you can help me, is the physical process of taking something something out of a cabinet while leaving the cabinet open.

Speaker 3 So, I'm going to mime something and I want you to tell me where I've gone wrong.

Speaker 3 So, I'm reaching to the cabinet, I'm going to get a glass for a glass of water. I'm reaching to the cabinet, I've grasped the handle now.
Are we all clear?

Speaker 10 Same Z's?

Speaker 73 Yes.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 3 I'm drawing it open. 100% the same? Gotcha.
I'm reaching in to grab a glass.

Speaker 48 Yes.

Speaker 3 I've pulled the glass out.

Speaker 48 This is where you're going to go wrong.

Speaker 48 Because if the cabinet stays open, something has happened to pull you away from the cabinet.

Speaker 49 But my hand is on the cabinet.

Speaker 53 My hand's still on the cabinet.

Speaker 3 My hand hasn't left the cabinet, Caitlin.

Speaker 53 What's that? The phone rang.

Speaker 55 I have to register some voters?

Speaker 3 Let the audio record show that in each case, as I turned around, I closed the cabinet

Speaker 3 almost effortlessly.

Speaker 3 Well, we'll see what Judge John Hodgman has to say about all of this. Please rise metaphorically as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

Speaker 25 Caitlin,

Speaker 70 I admire greatly your journey and your commitment to

Speaker 46 not committing to one course of study or another until you really knew what you wanted to do.

Speaker 14 And I think it's an I admire the fact that you took your time and figured it out.

Speaker 9 And then obviously when you were ready to return and be graduated from college,

Speaker 52 you aspired to and reached arguably the highest level to go to an Ivy League university here in New York City.

Speaker 10 You did a good job, and I think you're going to continue to do good jobs in the future.

Speaker 70 And I don't doubt that you are super duper busy and you got a lot on your mind that is more important than clothes and drawers.

Speaker 13 That is a small petty thing that only someone who went straight through college and got a job would care about.

Speaker 61 And you know, of course,

Speaker 27 The court advises against cohabitation before marriage largely for this reason.

Speaker 68 Living together, and look,

Speaker 50 it's not a moral issue, you know what I mean?

Speaker 35 Living together is a super drag.

Speaker 17 Living together requires a tremendous amount of accommodation of other humans that none of us wants to make.

Speaker 3 You have to suddenly be, you have to merge your own, your different standards of cleanliness.

Speaker 27 You have to merge your sleep schedules into one disgusting, fart-filled bed.

Speaker 34 You have to merge, essentially merge your finances because all of a sudden you have to buy groceries together and pay bills together and you get to enjoy the terrible financial partnership of marriage without any of the legal protections.

Speaker 50 This is all a matter of record on the podcast.

Speaker 9 Obviously you haven't looked it up.

Speaker 51 And you have to merge your habits of leaving pizza boxes in front of the refrigerator versus cleaning them up.

Speaker 13 And this is frustrating because what ends up happening is that the person who is more tidy ends up

Speaker 38 managing the environment

Speaker 32 more and resenting the other person.

Speaker 8 And I wouldn't, I would be lying to you if I didn't say I had some personal experience with this.

Speaker 17 Because indeed, I married a person whose standards of tidiness are not my own.

Speaker 71 And it has been a lifelong struggle.

Speaker 27 And I love that person very much.

Speaker 74 But shoes belong in the closet.

Speaker 6 But the record showed that Caitlin has never heard of shoes going into a closet before in her life.

Speaker 54 What concerns me more

Speaker 80 than even the unclosed drawers is the incredible number of toothbrushes in your home.

Speaker 23 You're putting you can speak Caitlin if you have to you can jump in there if you need to are you saying that's Rob that's all Rob I do believe yes They are all Rob's

Speaker 18 one of them is mine

Speaker 85 One of them is yours, and the rest are Rob's?

Speaker 48 Yes.

Speaker 47 I'll be honest, I didn't even realize those were there, so

Speaker 47 that's maybe something I need to work on.

Speaker 51 I think you both need to work on things.

Speaker 25 Insofar as the subject of this suit, I am ordering you, Caitlin, to close drawers.

Speaker 13 And that is a basic part of humanity that I think

Speaker 40 you need to embrace.

Speaker 24 But I will say, for both of you, it is time to read the everyday magic of tidying up and touch each one of those toothbrushes

Speaker 60 and determine whether it sparks joy or not.

Speaker 34 Whether or not you have different standards of tidiness, neither of you deserves to live amid garbage on the floor or watted up toilet paper or tissue paper underneath piles of pond cold cream on the counter.

Speaker 22 Go ahead, Caitlin. Go ahead.

Speaker 48 Well, there's not a lot of garbage. Those photos were selectively taken.

Speaker 3 Yeah, he took pictures of the garbage.

Speaker 49 Yes.

Speaker 48 But that is a very unusual situation. It's usually not, you know, usually it's books that he complains about.
It's like books. Books and novels.

Speaker 18 The weird thing about clutter is that

Speaker 46 you don't see it.

Speaker 74 It becomes something that you don't notice anymore the more you live with it.

Speaker 71 And even Rob didn't realize, oh my god, I got 45 toothbrushes in this house.

Speaker 54 Like, the more you get used to it, the more you don't see it.

Speaker 74 But I think that, in my opinion, it still affects you and your state of mind.

Speaker 79 And when you leave things around on the floor and you leave drawers open and you leave your whole world in disarray, the more you are inclined to feel like my whole life is in disarray, I don't have time to close these drawers.

Speaker 54 I think it's a feedback loop.

Speaker 34 I think it will be easier in your lives, although I'm not sure that you will ever have the exact same standards of tidiness, if you close those drawers.

Speaker 79 And Rob, you got rid of some of those toothbrushes.

Speaker 12 If you got a little less of that visual clutter out of your lives, I don't think this would be as much as a conflict.

Speaker 17 So, insofar as the suit was against Caitlin for not shutting drawers, I do find in Rob's favor, but you've got to get rid of some toothbrushes.

Speaker 50 Decompost, you guys.

Speaker 54 This is the sound of a gabble, Judge Sean Hoggy World's out of it.

Speaker 3 Ladies and gentlemen, Rob and Caitlin. Thank you, Rob and Caitlin.

Speaker 3 You know, Judge Hodgman,

Speaker 3 it's not just us on this show. We also have a very able musical guest.
And I had a conversation backstage with one of the members of the band.

Speaker 3 He said, well, what kind of songs would you like us to play on the show tonight? Right.

Speaker 3 I'm always glad to help. I said, look, play what what you love to play.

Speaker 3 And just know that if you want to play something sweet and tender, don't feel like it's out of place in the context of a comedy show. Our audience is a thoughtful, caring audience.

Speaker 3 They're going to love it no matter what it is.

Speaker 10 Right.

Speaker 3 And he said, okay, cool. Usually we just go hard.

Speaker 3 And I was like, all right, then.

Speaker 46 Ladies and gentlemen, you are about to find out that Pitch Black Brass Band does go hard.

Speaker 41 You have seen them on the Chris Gethard Show, Summer Stage, Lincoln Center, all over Brooklyn, and right now you're going to hear them on this very stage.

Speaker 27 Please put your hands together for the Pitch Black Brass Band.

Speaker 56 All right, we're going to do something kind of chill and vibey, and then we're going to rock it out.

Speaker 22 Are you ready?

Speaker 30 All right, bro. We're gonna do it.

Speaker 5 Yes,

Speaker 75 those trombones, though.

Speaker 75 Let me see some hand clips. Come on,

Speaker 75 come on, bro.

Speaker 75 Hooray

Speaker 75 to everybody who smokes

Speaker 75 I want you to put one finger in the air

Speaker 75 like so

Speaker 75 how y'all doing out here tonight? Come on, make some noise if y'all join the show. What's going on?

Speaker 75 This is a boy twinkie song.

Speaker 75 Boy's pet song. If you still smoke, roll it up, blunts, flips, tennis ball rips.

Speaker 75 Make some noise real quick. Shit,

Speaker 75 hot, yeah. Spitch water.

Speaker 75 Shit, shit, shit.

Speaker 75 I need to go real quick. Yeah, bounce.

Speaker 75 Bounce,

Speaker 75 bounce,

Speaker 75 bounce,

Speaker 75 bounce,

Speaker 75 bounce,

Speaker 75 bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce, bounce,

Speaker 75 bounce,

Speaker 75 bounce,

Speaker 75 bounce, bounce.

Speaker 75 All turns up shit.

Speaker 75 You gotta run up, who out you like it. You gotta fight, you gotta go.
You get too high, you gotta fight. Oh, no problem,

Speaker 75 bro.

Speaker 75 You gotta go up,

Speaker 75 We got fucking fucking good.

Speaker 75 Tearing up, people told me

Speaker 75 that the party's been asked by you.

Speaker 75 So mission, that's what I thought.

Speaker 75 I'm not fucking fucking out of the way. So we're standing on that by the past.
I was just a confession. I was a spot.
So I'm right,

Speaker 75 right beside.

Speaker 75 You gotta go up and out.

Speaker 75 You like a boy, preaching to the front. Even get you high, You like us a bottle, the world's the stop.
That's it, you gotta go and put out your likeness.

Speaker 75 You like a bottle, you're preaching to the front, you can get you high.

Speaker 75 You're like there's a rush, but I'm gonna draft all the gifts top rough. Four quints well, that keeps the hands on the top shot.
You won't stop, I'm feeling

Speaker 75 like I'm on.

Speaker 75 Present too, feel me.

Speaker 75 And when people understand, thinking everything,

Speaker 75 I see it and respect. I'm not

Speaker 75 because I put it in the court. I love the planet.
So I sit here. Enjoy my freedom.
Turn it into my

Speaker 75 broken. Correctly just fucking

Speaker 75 love to see what's the beat. Folks in the air to be sleep.
Folks are the enemies to see. Fucking the richer league.

Speaker 75 Ready to pour a love for the heart. That's pretty nice.
Stop right.

Speaker 75 Right beside. That's it.
You gotta go and pull out your likes. Be like a fire, you're free to left for wire.
Feeling it's just high, I feel like a survivor.

Speaker 75 Stop right, right beside that. You gotta go and pull out your likes.
Take it like a fire, push it to the fire.

Speaker 75 You gotta go

Speaker 75 on the wrong time. You let it fall, feel

Speaker 75 fire.

Speaker 75 Ladies and gentlemen, the pitch black brass band. That's Max, Elena, CJ, Brian, Chanel, Ashley, Ben, Brian, Allison, your pitch black brass fan of Brooklyn, New York.

Speaker 91 Hello, I'm your Judge John Hodgman. The Judge John Hodgman podcast is brought to you every week by you, our members, of course.

Speaker 91 Thank you so much for your support of this podcast and all of your favorite podcasts at maximumfund.org, and they are all your favorites.

Speaker 91 If you want to join the many member supporters of this podcast and this network, boy, oh boy, that would be fantastic. Just go to maximumfund.org/slash join.

Speaker 92 The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Quince.

Speaker 93 Jesse, the reviews are in.

Speaker 93 My new super soft hoodie from Quince that I got at the beginning of the summer is indeed super soft. People cannot stop touching me and going, that is a soft sweatshirt.
And I agree with them.

Speaker 93 And it goes so well with my Quince overshirts that I'm wearing right now, my beautiful cotton Piquet overshirts and all the other stuff that I've gotten from Quince.

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Speaker 92 John, you know what I got from Quince? I got this beautiful linen double flap pocket shirt that's sort of like an adventure shirt. And I also got a merino wool polo shirt.
Oh, it's like a

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You know what I mean? It's a stink-rejecting technology, John.

Speaker 93 It says, get thee behind me, stink.

Speaker 92 Yeah, exactly. And, you know, honestly, even if I do need to wash it, I can just wear it in the shower when I'm traveling and then

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Speaker 93 That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash JJ HO to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash JJO.

Speaker 92 The Judge John Hodgman podcast is also brought to you this week by Made In.

Speaker 93 Let me ask you a question. Did you know that most of the dishes served at Tom Clicchio's craft restaurant are made in, made in pots and pans? It's true.
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Speaker 92 It's the stuff that professional chefs use, but because it is sold directly to you, it's a lot more affordable than some of the other high-end brands. We're both big fans of the carbon steel.

Speaker 92 I have a little

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Speaker 92 And I know that she can, you know, she can heat that thing up hot if she wants to use it hot.

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Speaker 92 It's an immensely useful piece of kitchen toolery.

Speaker 93 And it will last a long time. And whether it's

Speaker 93 griddles or pots and pans or knives or glassware or tableware, I mean, you know, Jesse, I'm sad to be leaving Maine soon, but I am very, very happy to be coming back to my beloved made-in entree bowls.

Speaker 93 All of it is incredibly solid, beautiful, functional, and as you point out, a lot more affordable because they sell it directly to you.

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Speaker 93 made-in. For full details, visit madeincookwear.com.
That's m-a-d-e-i-n cookware.com. Let them know Jesse and John sent you.

Speaker 3 Shall we get on with the cases, Judge Hoshman?

Speaker 31 We have some friends of the show here tonight.

Speaker 3 Oh, my goodness gracious, yes.

Speaker 59 Let's see.

Speaker 3 Judge Hoshman, do you remember episode 186, the commune-ish manifesto?

Speaker 54 Yes, I believe that featured Jenny and Aaron.

Speaker 3 Yeah, why don't we bring Jenny and Aaron up to the stage and see how they're doing? They're doing Jenny and Aaron, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 45 Jenny and Aaron, you live in a communal living situation.

Speaker 8 Is that correct?

Speaker 16 Yes, we do.

Speaker 26 You both have husbands.

Speaker 43 We do.

Speaker 41 and you both have children no only aaron does only aaron has husbands okay uh has children

Speaker 23 jenny shares mine right okay so you share you share the children yes no we don't sure you share everything no no just the children you share everything in the commune

Speaker 30 do you share your your gorp and textured soy protein absolutely okay and where is the commune again New Jersey.

Speaker 10 New Jersey.

Speaker 9 And what it is, is it's a house.

Speaker 26 It's a house.

Speaker 28 And you're two married couples who are sharing resources.

Speaker 26 But for a while, if I remember correctly,

Speaker 31 you were a little self-conscious about explaining this to the casual acquaintances in your life.

Speaker 67 And so you lied, right?

Speaker 23 Erin lied.

Speaker 49 Erin lied.

Speaker 46 Erin would say, what?

Speaker 3 What was your lie?

Speaker 82 That she was my sister, or I really didn't know what to say, or my kid's aunt.

Speaker 73 Right.

Speaker 69 You told different lies because you wanted to be caught.

Speaker 22 Yes, yes.

Speaker 82 And sometimes I pretended I didn't know her.

Speaker 31 So you would go to school and say, say,

Speaker 28 Jenny is my sister, or she's my mother, or she's my sister, or she's my mother.

Speaker 83 I never.

Speaker 28 Forget it, school system, it's New Jersey.

Speaker 5 I never, yeah.

Speaker 82 I never called her my mother. People just assumed.

Speaker 37 Whoa!

Speaker 94 Commune is over.

Speaker 29 Throwing shade is a part of your communal lifestyle, I take it.

Speaker 38 When one of you burns another, do you guys both take care of the burns?

Speaker 94 Yeah, we share the aloe.

Speaker 23 Right, all right.

Speaker 2 Share the aloe.

Speaker 27 And I ruled that you should stop lying and own your own truth.

Speaker 9 And is that what happened?

Speaker 94 That's exactly what happened. Erin did a wonderful job.
The other day, she was telling

Speaker 94 a mom that she met at school that I was her friend, but then she said, and she was going to homeschool my kid for a while. So then we sounded weird again.

Speaker 94 She was so close.

Speaker 71 Were you going to homeschool Erin's kids?

Speaker 94 Yes, that was on the table, one of the kids.

Speaker 42 She started, she just quit.

Speaker 94 Is that so? Where is the aloe? Yes.

Speaker 94 Because she enrolled him in school.

Speaker 37 Oh, okay.

Speaker 39 She wasn't very good.

Speaker 61 Jenny, I don't remember.

Speaker 5 I'm sorry. Oh, man.

Speaker 3 Not just aloe. We're going to eat all kinds of unguents.

Speaker 29 This is how Jonestown started.

Speaker 29 In any case, you are now living in the light of truth, as Father Hodgman told you to do.

Speaker 42 Absolutely, sir.

Speaker 27 I have not received an invitation to come and wear robes and teach you.

Speaker 94 It's in the mail?

Speaker 61 Okay.

Speaker 27 You know that I refused to receive mail.

Speaker 50 That's not.

Speaker 30 Oh, that's what happened.

Speaker 71 That's how they get my thoughts.

Speaker 9 But now things are more or less in order, even though there's a consistent burn rate between the two of you.

Speaker 17 The commune is in balance, and you're telling the truth, and you're not lying about your situation.

Speaker 20 Absolutely.

Speaker 3 Have there been incidents? Have there been situations where the truth led to difficult circumstances? Have you had to explain yourself?

Speaker 94 We don't do that very often.

Speaker 82 We just let it lay.

Speaker 94 You don't talk to others.

Speaker 94 No one will talk to us. Yeah, the judge last time said you don't have friends in New Jersey and you never will.
And that's true. Yeah, no one will talk to us.

Speaker 15 Whoever that judge was, a very wise man.

Speaker 82 It's worked out well. Like, they said that Jenny can volunteer at school and her husband can volunteer for the Boy Scouts if they want to, but they don't.

Speaker 82 But anyways, yeah, everyone.

Speaker 7 Was that in question, honestly, because of your unusual living arrangement?

Speaker 27 Or did you just fear that it was in question?

Speaker 94 Yeah, we feared it, but it wasn't necessarily in question.

Speaker 3 Are the two of you still lady Rotarians?

Speaker 94 No, Aaron did try to join various

Speaker 94 well, a pyramid scheme and then some strange clubs, but

Speaker 37 we're not Rotary members.

Speaker 7 Maren, what pyramid scheme did you...

Speaker 45 What pyramid scheme was it that would not have you?

Speaker 30 You know what? Never mind.

Speaker 31 We don't want your money.

Speaker 65 You're in a commune. No, thank you.

Speaker 94 It was related to essential oils. So yeah.

Speaker 53 Go on.

Speaker 82 I knew within like 24 hours I should not have done it, but I did.

Speaker 64 But what is it that you did?

Speaker 53 I bait them.

Speaker 65 You what?

Speaker 82 Like I bought into the

Speaker 54 essential oils.

Speaker 82 And then I was supposed to sell it to someone else, and they sell it to someone else, and they sell it to someone else.

Speaker 82 I have not sold it to anyone.

Speaker 22 I realize

Speaker 37 too.

Speaker 3 But will you be available between shows this evening?

Speaker 73 Yeah.

Speaker 9 Jenny has the obviously more mature sister wife.

Speaker 27 Why didn't you stop Erin?

Speaker 82 I did.

Speaker 94 I tried to stop her. I told her not to do it, and she didn't listen, and she's her own person.

Speaker 24 How did you even...

Speaker 66 This is, how does this come? How does this happen that you're like, this is a good idea?

Speaker 9 I'm going to sell essential oils.

Speaker 35 Did you answer an ad in in the back of Grit magazine?

Speaker 69 What's going on?

Speaker 82 Well, I hadn't really fully embraced your statement that

Speaker 82 we don't have friends and we never will.

Speaker 31 So someone approached you.

Speaker 53 Yeah.

Speaker 10 Who approached you?

Speaker 82 Some mom with a library.

Speaker 82 Her kid was crying, and then, you know, she's like, oh, you can put this on your kid, and they'll never, they'll sleep better at night.

Speaker 82 I can't put it on my kids. I bought it and I can't put it on my kids.

Speaker 37 I really,

Speaker 50 I really want to see a 13-episode drama on Hulu about

Speaker 71 your weird township.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I feel like this could be the next the slap.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 9 But at least now that the pyramid scheme is over and the lying has stopped, you guys are in balance.

Speaker 33 Are there any other disputes that I can see?

Speaker 94 Well, I have one quick one that Erin is still upset about from last December.

Speaker 94 Her husband and I went to a holiday party together.

Speaker 39 Makes total sense, right? Wait a minute.

Speaker 24 Her husband and you

Speaker 12 went to a party together.

Speaker 5 Right. Right.

Speaker 94 And

Speaker 82 they had gift bags.

Speaker 49 It was on those things.

Speaker 75 You guys made out a little bit.

Speaker 94 No.

Speaker 94 And

Speaker 66 why did you go?

Speaker 94 I'm just kidding. No, we did not, sir.

Speaker 64 Why did you go to a holiday party with Erin's husband?

Speaker 94 Well, Erin couldn't go. She was babysitting the kids.
They were sick. And my husband had to work.

Speaker 42 So he was the last person available.

Speaker 41 I see. Okay.

Speaker 67 So while her kids were sick with fever,

Speaker 50 like, well, your husband and I are going to go, where was the party?

Speaker 94 In Greenwich Village.

Speaker 49 Is that a real place? Yes, right? Okay. Yes.

Speaker 3 Well, I've seen it in movies.

Speaker 45 Your husband, I'm going to go see the big city for the first time.

Speaker 28 Your husband is taking me.

Speaker 82 It was a boss.

Speaker 69 He tells me that we're allowed to celebrate Christmas this year.

Speaker 6 Alright, so what happened?

Speaker 9 Aside from the swingers aspect of this,

Speaker 94 what happened? So we went to the party and it was one of those fancier parties and they had gift bags.

Speaker 53 Oh.

Speaker 94 And so we, it was a vodka party and we had too much vodka. A vodka party.

Speaker 37 It was.

Speaker 94 It was sponsored by a vodka company. We had too much vodka and we forgot to get the gift bag.
When we got home.

Speaker 51 And by a gift bag, you mean the bag was glass and was full of vodka?

Speaker 78 Probably.

Speaker 94 When we got home, Erin had already researched the party online and knew there were gift bags.

Speaker 43 It's the saddest thing in the world.

Speaker 5 Exactly.

Speaker 21 She's just.

Speaker 3 All you hear in the house is click, click.

Speaker 2 With a single tear face.

Speaker 5 Click, click.

Speaker 82 I thought for sure they were coming home with all kinds of great stuff to give to me

Speaker 69 because I was to contribute to the family horror.

Speaker 94 Erin loves free stuff and free alcohol. And so

Speaker 94 we came home, we forgot the gift bags, and she is still upset about it. She's so mad about it.
She's looked at, she shows us pictures of other people enjoying the things from the gift bags.

Speaker 94 Like, I'm sorry.

Speaker 33 What was in the gift bag, Erin, since you researched it?

Speaker 35 Socks.

Speaker 53 And this

Speaker 2 sweater and like a hat and bodies.

Speaker 3 I feel like Erin's weird obsession saved a social media manager's job.

Speaker 49 It was the only likes there.

Speaker 27 The fact that Erin researched the gift bag and knows that it contained at least socks

Speaker 29 and probably, although she doesn't want to admit it right now, knows every other item that was in the gift bag.

Speaker 18 Absolutely.

Speaker 27 To me, I think suggests a level of care that needs to be rewarded.

Speaker 46 You took her husband to Greenwich Village

Speaker 86 for

Speaker 51 a gin party, excuse me, a vodka party.

Speaker 3 For, let's be honest, an episode of Mad Man.

Speaker 49 That's right.

Speaker 9 You have to go into your own private savings.

Speaker 13 Do your husbands allow you to keep some money for yourself?

Speaker 49 They do.

Speaker 30 And you keep a little behind the wall.

Speaker 15 All right, go into your coffee can and you have to replicate that gift bag for your sister wife, Erin.

Speaker 44 Okay.

Speaker 3 Jenny and Aaron, ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 3 Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome to the stage Charlie and Liza.

Speaker 95 You know, we've been doing my brother, my brother, me for 15 years. And

Speaker 95 maybe you stopped listening for a while, maybe you never listened. And you're probably assuming three white guys talking for 15 years, I know where this has ended up.

Speaker 96 But no, no, you would be wrong. We're as shocked as you are that we have not fallen into some sort of horrific scandal or just turned into a big crypto thing.

Speaker 95 Yeah, you don't even really know how crypto works.

Speaker 84 The only NFTs I'm into are naughty, funny things, which is what we talk about on my brother, my brother, and me.

Speaker 97 We serve it up every Monday for you if you're listening.

Speaker 96 And if not, we just leave it out back and goes rotten.

Speaker 95 So check it out on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 90 All right, we're over 70 episodes into our show. Let's learn everything.
So let's do a quick progress check. Have we learned about quantum physics?

Speaker 1 Yes, episode 59.

Speaker 90 We haven't learned about the history of gossip yet, have we? Yes, we have. Same episode, actually.
Have we talked to Tom Scott about his love of roller coasters?

Speaker 96 Episode 64.

Speaker 90 So how close are we to learning everything?

Speaker 90 Bad news. We still haven't learned everything yet.

Speaker 75 Oh, we're ruined!

Speaker 90 No, no, no, it's good news as well. There is still a lot to learn.

Speaker 25 Woo!

Speaker 57 I'm Dr. Ella Hubber.
I'm regular Tom Lollum.

Speaker 90 I'm Caroline Roper, and on Let's Learn Everything, we learn about science and a bit of everything else too.

Speaker 90 And although we haven't learned everything yet, I've got a pretty good feeling about this next episode.

Speaker 57 Join us every other Thursday on Maximum Fun.

Speaker 11 Tonight, the most important trial of the day.

Speaker 3 Charlie brings the case against his girlfriend Liza. He works overnight as a writer and wakes up later in the day than she does.

Speaker 3 They often disagree about about what can be considered breakfast since he eats his breakfast during her lunch.

Speaker 3 Charlie thinks his schedule and meal names should be taken seriously.

Speaker 3 Litha thinks he should keep in mind the time of day when naming his meals.

Speaker 3 Who's right, who's wrong, only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and delivers the obscure cultural reference.

Speaker 27 I cook about 90 dozen eggs every Saturday and every Sunday and I enjoy cooking them each time I do it.

Speaker 46 I like cracking the eggs into a bowl.

Speaker 27 I like breaking the yolks and whisking them with cream for scrambled eggs.

Speaker 27 I like watching the ripples form as they cook and I like the process of gently running my fork through cooked eggs as they create space for the raw egg to get into the pan.

Speaker 14 When I'm making fried eggs and sunnies, I like hitting the butter into the pan.

Speaker 46 I like sliding the eggs into the butter.

Speaker 27 There's nothing else I'd rather be doing. I don't come to the task from a place of drudgery or boredom.

Speaker 14 I come to it from a place of curiosity and love.

Speaker 81 To be a good cook, you have to.

Speaker 69 Bailiff Jesse Thorne, swear the meal.

Speaker 3 Raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

Speaker 73 I do. I do.

Speaker 3 Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that he eats only fourth meal?

Speaker 78 I do. I definitely do.

Speaker 3 Very well. Judge Hodgman.

Speaker 31 Liza and Charlie, for an immediate summary of judgment and one of yours favors.

Speaker 33 Can either of you identify the piece of culture I referenced as I entered the courtroom.

Speaker 27 Liza, you are brought here against your will.

Speaker 38 Can you name it for me?

Speaker 42 It sounds like something Charlie would write, actually.

Speaker 42 I will guess.

Speaker 40 Will you guess first?

Speaker 27 You actually can guess second if you want.

Speaker 8 You You can force Charlie to guess first.

Speaker 48 I'll guess first.

Speaker 32 Oh, nice. I like that.

Speaker 23 Well done.

Speaker 5 Guess

Speaker 42 Melissa Waters, maybe?

Speaker 32 Melissa Waters, a food writer.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Correct?

Speaker 19 All right.

Speaker 10 Charlie?

Speaker 10 Is it

Speaker 84 Michael Ruhlman, the cookbook eggs, maybe?

Speaker 23 Michael Ruhlman?

Speaker 5 Ruhman.

Speaker 50 I don't know, but the cookbook is eggs.

Speaker 32 All right.

Speaker 27 Let's put both of those into the guess book and scramble them up.

Speaker 50 Let me take a look at them.

Speaker 8 Now they're all dripping with eggs. Disgusting.

Speaker 23 But all guesses are wrong.

Speaker 32 I was quoting from a different cookbook.

Speaker 28 The cookbook is called Eat Me by Kenny Shopson of Shopson's General Store and the father of Tamara Shopson, who designed one of the t-shirts in the T-shirt club, who loves cooking eggs and does a really good job of it.

Speaker 17 And now we have to talk about your penchant for eating breakfast at all hours of the day and night and lunch

Speaker 14 in the antipodes.

Speaker 17 So what's happening with you, Charlie?

Speaker 27 Why are you eating breakfast at lunchtime?

Speaker 84 So, I work nights, so when I wake up

Speaker 84 in the morning, but it's actually around 2 p.m., is when I eat breakfast.

Speaker 84 And then I follow that meal at an appropriate interval with another meal that I call lunch, and my final meal of the day I call dinner.

Speaker 9 And when is that usually consumed?

Speaker 84 Oh, it gets a little bit confusing because working nights is

Speaker 84 I tend to eat dinner around dinner time, even though that's confusing, but it's more lunch and breakfast to get the

Speaker 84 strange time.

Speaker 14 And when you say you work nights, you're a night watchman, or you work in a mine, or an overnight

Speaker 88 job in a hospital, or whatever.

Speaker 84 I do the night shift for a news website.

Speaker 16 Oh, okay. So you're a writer at nights.

Speaker 11 And so you gather news?

Speaker 10 Yes, yeah.

Speaker 76 And so you work from when to when?

Speaker 84 It varies.

Speaker 84 Nine is when I start, usually until about three, sometimes four.

Speaker 74 This is a terrible existence that you're leading.

Speaker 27 Is this what you want in your life?

Speaker 84 I want

Speaker 84 parts of that, not the time. I would prefer to do what I'm doing now in the day for more money and longer hours.

Speaker 5 Oh

Speaker 27 what a strange request.

Speaker 46 And how long have you been together?

Speaker 18 Eight years.

Speaker 22 Uh-huh.

Speaker 9 Eight years considering that you've never slept?

Speaker 5 Yeah, right.

Speaker 23 All right.

Speaker 35 And Liza, what's your problem with

Speaker 13 his nomenclature about his meals?

Speaker 42 Well, so it's not not so much of an issue if it's

Speaker 78 us having a meal.

Speaker 42 The issue comes into play if we're trying to organize something with other people. So we'll call our friends and say, hey, well.

Speaker 74 Well, no, he works from 9 p.m.

Speaker 60 to 3 a.m.

Speaker 50 There are no other people in this place.

Speaker 82 It's becoming that way.

Speaker 22 Partly.

Speaker 3 Just because you name a squirrel doesn't make it a person.

Speaker 73 Right.

Speaker 42 So we'll call a friend at 2 o'clock on a Saturday and Charlie will say, hey, do you want to go out for breakfast? I'll say, what do you mean? No, I just had lunch. That ship has sailed.

Speaker 78 So

Speaker 42 it's difficult to make plans.

Speaker 3 Because the ships are always sailing.

Speaker 27 How long has this been part of your, this schedule been part of your life, Charlie?

Speaker 38 To varying degrees for a long time.

Speaker 84 I've been doing this job for nine months, but earlier jobs I've done have also been night. And before that, even I did night life and food and wine writing.

Speaker 84 So even then, I'd be doing events in the evening. I'm going to say, I'm a night person.
I've been always been

Speaker 84 a night person, we wouldn't have the job.

Speaker 32 It says so right on your resume. Right.

Speaker 8 But you can't hire this guy for daytime.

Speaker 21 Right, yeah.

Speaker 26 So how but in your relationship, how long has this gone on?

Speaker 84 Oh, wow. Well, a big chunk of our relationship was like this because I was in Hong Kong and she was here.

Speaker 10 So actually it was.

Speaker 50 Then it doesn't matter what you call your meal.

Speaker 46 No, it doesn't matter because you weren't together.

Speaker 5 Right, yeah, right.

Speaker 84 Right. But

Speaker 84 yeah, so for about nine months, maybe probably push it to about a year, maybe.

Speaker 33 So why don't you just say when you wake up on 2 p.m.

Speaker 13 on a Saturday and you call a friend, and you say, do you want to get something to eat?

Speaker 84 I mean, that's practically what I do for the most part. It's

Speaker 84 when I say breakfast, because that comes naturally to me and becomes an issue that I feel it's wrapped up in other things. It's like it's

Speaker 5 unwrapped that.

Speaker 84 It marginalizes my existence. Just because I work at night doesn't mean, you know, it's not a job and my first meals are breakfast.

Speaker 18 It means you're a weird troglodyte. Yeah, right, exactly.

Speaker 6 It deserves respect.

Speaker 89 So

Speaker 44 you're saying as a matter of personal respect,

Speaker 41 people should call lunch, breakfast.

Speaker 3 No, people should always call. Charlie, do you sincerely believe that mole men and humans are equal?

Speaker 84 To a point, yes. In terms of eating, yes.

Speaker 15 Liza, what do you do?

Speaker 42 I'm a student.

Speaker 31 A student of what?

Speaker 42 Of business.

Speaker 39 Weird creatures.

Speaker 61 Nighttime creatures?

Speaker 73 At the nighttime, yes.

Speaker 15 Sorry, you're a student of what now?

Speaker 42 I study business at NYU.

Speaker 14 At NYU. And you guys live in whereabouts? In Fort Greene.

Speaker 24 In Fort Greene, Brooklyn.

Speaker 10 Excellent.

Speaker 31 There's a lot of great breakfast for lunch places around there.

Speaker 21 Yeah, there really are, yeah.

Speaker 16 And has this always been a problem, Liza?

Speaker 39 Off and on.

Speaker 42 So I think it's kind of been an issue throughout his life. I submitted an affidavit from his mother who would attest to this being an ongoing issue.

Speaker 33 Do we have that affidavit here, handy?

Speaker 18 I hope not.

Speaker 5 No, huh.

Speaker 78 But it's been.

Speaker 3 Can you testify to the contents of that affidavit?

Speaker 42 It was basically her saying it's been frustrating her for many years and

Speaker 42 you know, she can't always conform to Charlie's theories of time.

Speaker 18 Well,

Speaker 45 is it more an issue of what the meal is called or when Charlie wants to eat foods?

Speaker 12 Okay.

Speaker 42 That's a great question.

Speaker 2 I know.

Speaker 23 He's a professional.

Speaker 25 I only ask the great ones.

Speaker 42 So for me, honestly, probably the larger issue is he'll eat quote-unquote breakfast at 2 o'clock and then want to have a lunch at 4 before we have dinner at 7.

Speaker 78 Well, yeah. So

Speaker 42 it's a meal spacing issue for me more than a nomenclature problem. But for him, it's more of a...

Speaker 42 pedantic, I want to be able to call this breakfast because it is literally my breakfast.

Speaker 39 Okay, walk me through your day, Charlie.

Speaker 37 Or your

Speaker 50 night, I don't know what division.

Speaker 27 Night Twilight, Your day night, whatever, your schedule.

Speaker 68 So you're up until 3 a.m.

Speaker 60 Yeah, I'll say 3.

Speaker 13 Gathering and disseminating news on the internet. Right.

Speaker 14 And then where are you working?

Speaker 84 On the couch of my apartment.

Speaker 88 The couch of your apartment,

Speaker 17 and then you go to bed.

Speaker 84 Yeah, so then I will maybe give myself an hour of television watching.

Speaker 15 What do you watch at that time? Go to bed.

Speaker 84 Yesterday, bored to death, to be totally honest. That's

Speaker 5 well chosen. Meandering.

Speaker 50 I didn't mean that.

Speaker 24 That doesn't help me now, but thank you.

Speaker 3 Perhaps with your mastery of space and time, you could.

Speaker 9 All right, and then you fall asleep on the couch.

Speaker 84 I try not to, but it usually happens. Yes, I try to go to bed.
And I always try to set my alarm for eight hours from when I go to sleep.

Speaker 80 So that would be like

Speaker 60 four in the morning.

Speaker 84 So let's say four in the morning until noon in this case. Right.

Speaker 64 So then you get up and eat breakfast.

Speaker 84 I get up and if she's not at school, we'll maybe go out to a meal. If not, I'll just cook breakfast.

Speaker 18 Let's just say in your world.

Speaker 84 In my case, I'll get up and cook breakfast.

Speaker 88 Right, and breakfast for you is a three-course turkey dinner. Right.

Speaker 84 Maybe like eggs and sausage.

Speaker 84 I'm a pretty traditional breakfast eater.

Speaker 84 And then we'll eat lunch maybe three to three and a half hours later from that point, maybe a little bit longer than that.

Speaker 76 And then dinner.

Speaker 84 And then dinner comes as late as I can get Liza to eat dinner with me.

Speaker 16 Which is in your ideal world?

Speaker 84 Nine would be great. Actually, eight.
That way I could start working then.

Speaker 16 I see. Okay.

Speaker 31 And but you eat traditional breakfast, lunch, and dinner foods in those, that's not the

Speaker 84 not as a rule, but typically, yeah.

Speaker 3 All right. So you eat.

Speaker 3 So you make her eat lunch at 3.30.

Speaker 84 I don't make her.

Speaker 3 Then she eats lunch of her own choice each day in between breakfast and dinner at 3.30. Then you have dinner together at 9.

Speaker 3 Then you work without eating for seven hours.

Speaker 30 I'll snack a little.

Speaker 3 Is it like six almonds like President Obama?

Speaker 84 I tried to do a traditional dinner, you know, whatever it would be, five hours kind of in between meals.

Speaker 84 And even though I'm used to this schedule by now eating a meal at midnight or so, I can never feel hungry. It doesn't feel right.
It feels, I I don't know, it doesn't work for me, and I've tried.

Speaker 84 And so this is what works for my appetites.

Speaker 3 Do you feel respected by your girlfriend?

Speaker 84 In almost everything, except for when I say, Would you like to get breakfast? and she corrects me. That's pretty much it.

Speaker 84 Or lunch.

Speaker 56 Liza,

Speaker 33 do you think that if I were to order

Speaker 19 Charlie to call breakfast lunch

Speaker 46 and to call lunch dinner and to call his dinner something he eats after you've gone to bed

Speaker 11 and change that nomenclature and standardize that that it would in any way address the obvious systematic problems that you guys have between your two schedules.

Speaker 22 No, not at all.

Speaker 42 I think my request is actually much simpler. If he wants to call that at home while he's cooking, that's fine.
It's more making plans with other people that are generally more on my schedule.

Speaker 14 You don't want him to force his sick worldview on other people.

Speaker 78 That's right. I've come to accept it, you know,

Speaker 42 as part of the deal.

Speaker 64 I believe in your right to live your life the way you want to live it.

Speaker 8 You just don't have to be up on my face all the time about it.

Speaker 42 Or trying to explain it to other people constantly.

Speaker 77 Well, that sounds boring.

Speaker 22 Yeah,

Speaker 42 it gets redundant.

Speaker 3 Charlie, a quick point of clarification. Are you able to walk safely amongst men?

Speaker 23 Yes.

Speaker 3 Even when the sun is out.

Speaker 61 Yes.

Speaker 5 Thank you.

Speaker 31 What steps are you taking

Speaker 79 since you are a day walker?

Speaker 53 What steps are you taking to avoid blade?

Speaker 84 A lot of mirrors. I have a lot of mirrors in my house.

Speaker 3 Do you always keep a copy of the tax filing papers?

Speaker 27 It seems to me like your schedules are a little bit untenable and that the out of syncness that they experience is just going to increase and increase and increase until it is unstable.

Speaker 84 Yeah, this is kind of what happened. So I brought this as a basic kind of language.
I thought this would be an easy, like, literal case to rule about what the definition of breakfast is.

Speaker 84 As soon as they even brought this up.

Speaker 14 The definition of breakfast is bacon and eggs.

Speaker 9 If that's all you need to know, get out of here.

Speaker 65 Give me my gavel.

Speaker 64 But then this brought it up. Anytime you have it.

Speaker 23 Breakfast for dinner, that's breakfast.

Speaker 5 Oh.

Speaker 5 Right?

Speaker 31 Breakfast for lunch, breakfast.

Speaker 23 Bacon and eggs.

Speaker 51 For snack, breakfast.

Speaker 84 So nobody wins here.

Speaker 18 So, but then as soon as I brought it up.

Speaker 9 I made that ruling on the way over here without meeting you.

Speaker 36 Not about the name.

Speaker 84 Right, right. Well, originally it was about the name for me, and then as soon as this became

Speaker 84 discussed with my loved ones and friends, it turned out that my schedule was bringing up a lot of emotional reactions with people who are close to me that got wrapped up in this calling meals by certain names.

Speaker 84 Yeah. And so it's transformed into a bigger kind of verdict on my entire lifestyle, which is not

Speaker 84 my original intent here.

Speaker 33 Liza, when do you wake up in the morning?

Speaker 42 Around 7:30.

Speaker 60 And you go to NYU?

Speaker 22 Yeah, occasionally.

Speaker 75 And then

Speaker 14 your workday ends at about 11.30 in the morning.

Speaker 73 For instance, today it started at the end of the day.

Speaker 64 You go to the malt shop for a little while, then you hit the books at the library.

Speaker 73 Something like that.

Speaker 3 We should explain that Judge Hodgman went to college in Riverdale.

Speaker 64 When do you go to bed at night?

Speaker 42 11 midnight.

Speaker 31 Right. And that's just when he's starting to get work, going on work, right?

Speaker 16 Yeah.

Speaker 27 So how much time do you guys actually get to experience together in a day?

Speaker 42 So for instance, today I had class from 1.30 to 4, so

Speaker 42 4.30 to

Speaker 5 look, we're taking

Speaker 46 who knows how many weird meals he had during that period of time.

Speaker 49 I don't ask these kinds of questions.

Speaker 5 That's fair.

Speaker 67 Are you happy, Charlie, with the way your life is organized?

Speaker 84 That's quite a question. Yes.
I'm happy now. I understand that it is not a long-term,

Speaker 84 not tenable in a long-term way, but yes, I'm happy at the moment.

Speaker 17 It seems to have taken a toll on you.

Speaker 41 Yeah, I'm

Speaker 41 hunched over.

Speaker 49 I'm tired. That's true.

Speaker 84 All the time.

Speaker 12 Yeah, you seem tired.

Speaker 11 Your eyes are a little sunken.

Speaker 40 You're holding a ring in one hand and constantly stroking it and calling it precious.

Speaker 84 But I'm doing fine. I'm okay.

Speaker 51 How many of your meals are raw fish that you pull out of an underground pool?

Speaker 5 Quite a few.

Speaker 67 Are you making an effort to to

Speaker 32 make your schedule more daytime oriented?

Speaker 84 Yeah, yes, I was supposed to have a meeting about that today.

Speaker 5 But you canceled it to be here.

Speaker 12 No, it's not my fault. Did you oversleep?

Speaker 84 Apparently, the way the industry works is they postpone meetings like this when you want to work in the daytime for more hours over and over again. I don't know what...

Speaker 3 Wait a minute, are you telling me that being a journalist is a hard way to make a living?

Speaker 55 Stop the presses.

Speaker 63 My fear.

Speaker 84 But I am being active and making a change in my life.

Speaker 23 Apparently, this is what I just wanted to be clear, what you said.

Speaker 80 Apparently, when you make a meeting in order to explore working during the daytime, they just routinely cancel it.

Speaker 2 I'm like, what?

Speaker 31 Someone's playing a trick on you.

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 67 We all work in the daytime.

Speaker 25 It's actually very common.

Speaker 18 I'm working on it. I'm working on it.

Speaker 31 I fear you've been working nights for so long that there's someone gaslighting you go like, no, you know, there are no daytime jobs.

Speaker 49 I feel that myself.

Speaker 28 Every time you apply for one, they just cancel it. So, gosh, I'm sorry, but you have to stay up all night again.

Speaker 37 Somewhere

Speaker 23 somewhere in the main office, there's a guy named Biff who's like, hey, Frank, the mole man just tried to get another meeting.

Speaker 5 Yeah. Right.

Speaker 30 No, I'm sorry. Nothing available.

Speaker 58 Here's your daily ration of kerosene.

Speaker 58 You're not far off.

Speaker 18 Well, I hope you work your way up pretty soon.

Speaker 61 What would you have me order if I were to find in your favor?

Speaker 84 But see, I want something very basic.

Speaker 84 I want an understanding that it's appropriate for me to consider in my life the first meal of my day as breakfast, the second meal as lunch, and the third as dinner.

Speaker 84 And the actual time that the meals take place

Speaker 84 doesn't matter in the way I refer to them myself. Right.
Including like social.

Speaker 80 Yeah, but you have freedom within your own mind.

Speaker 43 Like any perpetual prisoner.

Speaker 23 Right, yes.

Speaker 18 You can imagine that your walls are a beautiful sunset.

Speaker 85 Yeah, I would say

Speaker 84 within a limited group of people, maybe my mother and my girlfriend,

Speaker 84 I would like to be able to vocalize my reality and live as if I were not a freak.

Speaker 27 I hope if you ever get married, you work that into your vows.

Speaker 87 Liza, what would you have me order if I were to find in your favor?

Speaker 42 Just simply when making social plans to follow social conventions, instead of having me explain the difference in Charlie's timing to everyone every weekend.

Speaker 18 And this happens every weekend.

Speaker 10 It's

Speaker 17 in other words, when Charlie comes out of his cave desiring sustenance and says, let's call a friend and invite him to breakfast, you want him to say lunch instead.

Speaker 42 Yeah, or a meal, I would settle for a meal.

Speaker 5 Just for a meal.

Speaker 39 Yeah, for me. Specificity.

Speaker 43 Okay, I think I've heard everything that I need to.

Speaker 76 I'm going to crawl into my underground cavern and consider this very carefully.

Speaker 8 I'll be back in a moment with my decision.

Speaker 3 Please rise metaphorically as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Speaker 3 Charlie, did I hear you say just now specificity

Speaker 4 ellipsis?

Speaker 84 I caught myself.

Speaker 3 I am just impressed that you managed to, through just a brilliant linguistic maneuver, conflate Judge Hodgman's famous catchphrase specificity is the soul of narrative with brevity is the soul of wit

Speaker 3 by making briefer wow

Speaker 3 it was it was good work it was good work

Speaker 37 thank you

Speaker 3 Liza do you do you feel like this causes a lot of strife in your social life that you have to explain your husband's lifestyle choices

Speaker 42 I mean, strife might be overly generous, but it's just more redundant than it is, you know, difficult.

Speaker 42 It's just, yeah, the repetitive nature of having to explain what each meal is that has gotten to me over the years.

Speaker 84 I'm happy to explain it for myself.

Speaker 75 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Charlie, you're going to have to make some friends of your own.

Speaker 84 I think that's what this is coming to.

Speaker 3 It seems like the two of you are very happy otherwise, though.

Speaker 10 I think so.

Speaker 84 But we're not eating.

Speaker 10 Charlie,

Speaker 3 do you think that if the judge rules in your favor, you'll finally get that meeting you've been angling for?

Speaker 75 Take us across.

Speaker 3 Well, we'll see what Judge Hodgman has to say. Please rise metaphorically as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

Speaker 27 Well, one solution presents itself very nicely, which is, of course, whenever you eat bacon and eggs, that is breakfast.

Speaker 17 And so, if you eat that at 2 o'clock in the afternoon, that is breakfast, and you can call it such, and there's no problem.

Speaker 27 And as long as we stipulate to that, we can say that your first meal is breakfast, and I can rule in your favor in that regard.

Speaker 17 For the other thing, we call in

Speaker 50 the

Speaker 5 what

Speaker 84 lunch lunch

Speaker 80 calling dinner lunch, and then whatever moon food you eat in the middle of the night,

Speaker 34 whatever glowing mushrooms you eat with the morlocks at the center of the earth, dinner,

Speaker 11 and especially forcing Liza to conform to a very late and unusual eating pattern

Speaker 14 merely to feel human, that is both

Speaker 32 unallowable but also terribly sad.

Speaker 40 I take pity on you, poor creature.

Speaker 13 I think that you are attempting to normalize a situation that you are increasingly realizing is not healthy for you and not what you want in your life, and is not what is going to ultimately provide happiness for you and Liza together.

Speaker 40 You need to

Speaker 68 stand up to the LOI who are keeping you down beneath the earth and are telling you, nope, no more room up here on the surface.

Speaker 24 Go back down, go back down into the deep and eat your night food.

Speaker 32 You need to make a change in your life that is more than simply relabeling meals.

Speaker 13 And I think that you know this to be true.

Speaker 79 Is that so?

Speaker 36 Yes. Right, okay.

Speaker 32 So, in the meantime, however, you know, I was going to rule against you,

Speaker 8 but you know,

Speaker 87 how can I

Speaker 12 further debase this pitiable creature?

Speaker 62 All he wants to do is come to Mordor with us and show us the way.

Speaker 29 I know it might be a mistake to trust him and he might murder me down the road, but I feel a kinship with him and I want to travel this road with him for a while.

Speaker 27 So I will allow this basic accommodation to your strange lifestyle.

Speaker 59 Let the record show the defendant raised a withered arm and

Speaker 75 gave a weak cry.

Speaker 3 The celebration cry of the Mo Man.

Speaker 54 First meal after you awaken may be called breakfast by you and referred to by you as such, and all others must conform to your weird way of life.

Speaker 30 But after that, normal meal names.

Speaker 68 Second meal and third meal can just be called food.

Speaker 29 Would you like to have food at this hour?

Speaker 23 4 p.m.

Speaker 69 food, 6 p.m. food,

Speaker 31 and also let Liza eat dinner when she wants to.

Speaker 81 And also, keep watching Bored to Death.

Speaker 6 I'm pretty sure,

Speaker 28 I'm pretty sure if another seven or eight of you buy the DVDs,

Speaker 28 season four is just around the corner.

Speaker 58 This is the sound of a gavel.

Speaker 65 Judge Sean Hodgen rules, that is all.

Speaker 3 Ladies and gentlemen, Charlie and Liza.

Speaker 3 Well, Judge Hodgman.

Speaker 17 Yes, Jesse Thorne, bailiff, my bailiff.

Speaker 3 We could just run our mouths all night, but I feel like we have this dope-ass band here tonight.

Speaker 17 I'd like to hear some more from the Pitch Black Brass Band, wouldn't you all?

Speaker 3 Ladies and gentlemen, the Pitch Black Brass Band.

Speaker 47 Ladies and gentlemen, sitting, please literally rise

Speaker 55 for the pitch black brass man.

Speaker 55 need to live with. But I'm so rubber than I want.
I feel it. I'm on the bottom now.
With this on like a ball.

Speaker 55 Killing the lighting rap, nigga, hand that like dancing on the field.

Speaker 55 This black don't fancy with some shit. Who got who I dropped with you? So till the rhythmic groove, put your hands up.

Speaker 55 Hold,

Speaker 55 hold,

Speaker 55 hold,

Speaker 55 hold, hey, hey.

Speaker 55 Pitch Black Brass Band, give it up!

Speaker 55 Pitch and McBroll, you have to get some more.

Speaker 1 Our thanks to the Pitch Black Brass Band for playing us some amazing music in Brooklyn.

Speaker 49 Like, for real,

Speaker 1 they tore the house down.

Speaker 1 Find them at pitchblackbrassband.com. That's black, B-L-A-K.

Speaker 1 They got some East Coast tour dates in February. They're working on a new album coming soon.
They are a live experience that is not to be missed. I mean, they just melted the walls.

Speaker 1 Thanks also to the litigants who shared their disputes with us and to the staff at the Bell House for their help. Sarah Jane D and Teddy H named this week's cases.

Speaker 1 The show was produced by Danielle Davis, Matthew Barnhart, and of course, the one and only Jennifer Marmor. Tickets are going quickly for Max FunCon and MaxFunCon East.

Speaker 1 Visit maxfuncon.com for more information. Very, very fun day in Chicago is sold out, but, but, but

Speaker 1 there will be tickets at the door. Don't despair.
If you really want to be there, just show up. It's going to start at noon.
It's going to be great.

Speaker 1 If you've got a case for Judge John Hodgman, submit it at maximumfund.org slash JJHO. Maximumfund.org slash JJHO.
And if you're like on the fence about it, like is this important enough?

Speaker 1 Is this good enough? I don't know, just send it in. We'll decide.
That's our job. Maximumfund.org slash JJ Ho.
If you want to email us, it's hodgman at maximumfund.org. You can follow us on Twitter.

Speaker 1 I'm at Jesse Thorne, J-E-S-E-T-H-O-R-N. And John Hodgman is at Hodgman.
We'll see you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

Speaker 44 MaximumFun.org.

Speaker 1 Comedy and Culture.

Speaker 19 Artist-owned.

Speaker 44 Listener-supported.