A Jury of Your Tears

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm guest bailiff Gene Gray.

This week, a jury of your tears.

Donnie brings a case against his roommate, Glenn.

Glenn cooks quesadillas in their shared New York City apartment several times a week.

Donnie finds that the smell of peppers and onions is too powerful to handle, and he wants Glenn to vary his cooking routine.

Who's right?

Who's wrong?

Only one man can decide.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom and presents the obscure cultural reference.

An admiral without ships?

A hand without fingers?

In service of a king without a throne?

Is this an internet judge who comes before us?

Or the answer to a child's riddle?

Guest bail of Gene Gray swear them in.

Please rise and raise your right hands.

Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite the fact that in the 90s he was half of a rap duo called Peppers and Onions, and their hit single was called Quesadillas?

Sure do.

Certainly.

Was it Quesadillas with a Z at the end?

It was.

Yeah, right?

It was the 90s.

Onions also had a Z.

Well, we were in that feud.

We were in that feud.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I understand.

Donnie and Glenn, you may be seated.

Here we are with guest bailiff Gene Gray, second week in a row.

Donnie and Glenn, I'm going to get to you and talk about how you're doing.

I'm just going to say right now, Donnie

spotted my Quebec Nordique's hat when he came in studio, and he's in the running now, Glenn.

He's way ahead of you.

I may just have to recuse myself and let you guys fight it out while Gene and I go get a glass of wine because we're all here together.

Yeah.

Second time only

that I have been in the studio with litigants,

aside from live shows, like our great live justice show that we went around the country with, or at least several New England states.

That's the whole country.

Yeah, that's right.

That's it.

But this is only the second time that we've actually been in the studio as me, guest bailiff Gene Gray, Glenn, and Donnie were here at Argo Studios in Manhattan, New York City, presided over by our great engineer, Gary Ruis.

No, his name is Paul.

But I think at one point today, he called all of us Gary at one point.

Yeah.

Who knows why?

Thank you, Paul.

It's great to be here.

Because

it's an unusual situation, and basically the whole world is upside down anyway.

I'm going to do it once again, normal podcast style.

I'm going to get the plugs up top

so that people stick around.

Yeah.

No, this people will hear them while they stick around for the meat, which is these two guys and their fight about quesadillas.

And veggies.

And veggies as well.

Gene Gray, my guest bailiff, has two big things if you live in the New York area or are coming here that you should know about.

First of all, is the utterly essential Church of the Infinite, you,

which is a Sunday afternoon.

basement

meet and greet

with your friends, with music.

You're meet and greeting with yourself.

With yourself.

Each one of you comes to this thing.

You are learning about yourself and about your friends.

It's an amazing experience.

It's really a lot of fun.

While you drink.

While you drink and listen to some great music.

Yeah.

Cry, maybe?

It's something that we all need to do.

Yeah.

So that happens every other Sunday at Union Hall in Brooklyn downstairs.

The next one is on the 18th of December and then the 24th of December.

At 8 p.m.

That's a special blowout Christmas Eve service.

Yes.

That's that's going to be big.

It's going to be nuts.

And it says here that you are working on getting a live stream up for that specific, that big blowout?

Absolutely.

So, how would they find out about the live stream as they're approaching January 24th?

I'd say, you know, follow me on Twitter at GeneGreasy for right now, or follow my Instagram at Gene Ingregio, and just stay up for the news.

All right.

And I will let you know.

And you also host a talk show, which is also amazing called The Show Show.

That's the Evening Times.

And that returns to Union Hall this very night, December 7th, Wednesday, 2016.

That is when this episode will be released.

It's not too late for you to book your plane tickets to Brooklyn.

Brooklyn International Airport.

Yeah.

And then take the shuttle right over there to Union Hall because you will be welcoming guests Baratunde Thurston and Aparna Nancherla and a special to be announced guest.

Is it me?

It could be.

Okay, I can't do it.

No, it's not either.

It's Gary.

It's Gary.

Gary.

Rewist.

Gary Rewist.

And as for me,

I'm very happy to say that this terrible year is almost over.

And February 11th of next year, I will be going to Chicago to join all of your Max Fun friends at the very, very fun day in Chicago.

It is going to be this compressed, awesome podcast festival in a single day, Saturday, February 11th, at Talia Hall.

Talia Hall.

Talia?

Talia?

T-H-A-L-I-A.

Pronounce it how you like.

Just get there.

It's a beautiful space.

Have you played that space?

I haven't.

You know what?

Maybe I have.

That's right.

Who knows?

I don't remember.

It's still in the future.

Right.

But it's going to be a live Judge John Hodgman, along with live presentations from my Arch Nemesis podcast, The Flop House.

Stop podcasting yourself.

They're my friends.

Jordan Jesse Go, my friends.

Tites and Fights.

My friends.

The Flop House.

They're my enemy.

We're going to have an old-fashioned Chicago podcast fight.

Informations and tickets can be found at maximumfund.org slash very very fun day.

Two varies,

Glenn and Donnie, because that adds really, really drives it home.

Yeah, it really, really drives it home.

Yeah.

Exactly.

You use the adjective, no, adverbs.

It really, really drives it home.

What is it?

Donnie and Glenn, whichever one of you can tell me what part of speech vary is.

Depends on its usage.

Okay, very, very, that's Donnie speaking.

Very, very fun day.

If you can tell me what part, I should know this.

They're adverbs.

They're adverbs.

All right, this is the sound of a gavel.

Donnie wins.

Once again, Donnie coming through.

In the clutch.

All right, so here's the deal.

Donnie not only spotted my Quebec Nordique's hat,

one, two,

reminded me what an adverb was.

Three,

is wearing a tie to my podcast.

The guy brings a tie to a podcast fight.

He's loaded for bear.

And four,

when he wants to indicate a scent,

he remembers that this is a non-visual medium and actually speaks into the microphone instead of doing what you're doing to me, which is nodding along ruefully.

I was advised early on not to speak over other members of the.

You're correct not to speak over.

So

I'm nervous to chat too much, to be quite honest.

And you're, well, just everything's, look, this is an in-studio day.

Great.

It's all just, you know, we can see each other.

So I can talk.

Yeah, I can't be too mean to you guys because you're actually right here.

Unlike the regular podcast where I'm hearing voices in my head from faceless human mannequins around the world, and especially the Judge John Hodgman column in the New York Times magazine, where I never even need to see or talk to them again.

That's where I get really mean because the reality is, as social media has taught us, when you can't see someone face to face, you become a monstrous troll.

Well, I look forward to your kindness tonight, and I hope that you.

Shut up.

Point is, you're behind.

Indeed.

Didn't wear a tie.

Don't know anything about extinct hockey teams and their logos.

Or nothing about parts of speech.

I would like to point out that he does actually.

Is that a hair tie on your wrist?

If

you are prepared

to be a little more put together at times in case anything is happening.

He has a tie.

Yeah, he is.

So just to paint a word.

Thank you, Gene.

To paint a beautiful word picture for those of you listening along at home or in your cars,

Glenn has sort of longer hair and he has a hair tie around his wrist.

Sometimes you pull that into a little bun.

I do, yes.

Yeah.

I'm with you.

And I see now you're catching up because I was.

How old are you?

I'm 30 on Monday.

Oh,

this coming up.

Previous Monday.

I turned 30.

Belated happy birthday.

Thank you, John.

I'm sorry I didn't.

Yeah, all right.

Good catch.

Glenn's catching up, Donnie.

Good catch.

Happy birthday, belated happy birthday.

Thank you.

It's getting a little...

Yeah, I was going to say, I was the same way with, I had some long hair when I was your age, and I put it up into a man bun.

Before that was popping.

It was just a bun.

It looked terrible.

Do you have any pictures?

Not on me right now, but I'll show you.

If you had one on you, I would actually be concerned.

Yeah, here on my wall.

I'm just that specific.

Here on my wall.

Let's see.

No, not that one of me.

No, not that one of me.

It's one of these, Jim.

Yeah.

But, of course, I was in my 20s.

I was not a grown-up.

Oh, I've only recently left my 20s.

Yeah, very, yeah.

Well, would you like me to get a haircut?

Do you think that's the move now that I'm in my 30s?

Paul Ruis, do you guys here at Argo Studios have an in-house haircutter?

I do have a shaving device.

Yeah, you know what?

Let's bring it in just to have on the table to intimidate.

Boy, you're really stacking the dick against me here, judge.

No, well, I mean, you let Donnie stack it up.

You were too polite.

You were told, don't talk too much.

And you're sitting there and you're trying to follow the rules.

And I respect that as an only child.

But you're letting Donnie run the table with his Nordique's junk junk and his adverb intelligence.

So you have a chance now to make it up, though,

because

I will issue an immediate summary judgment in your favor if you are able to guess the cultural reference that I made as I entered the courtroom.

Do you remember it?

It had something to do about ships.

An admiral without ships, a hand without fingers, in service of a king without a throne.

Is this an internet judge who comes before us or the answer to a child's riddle?

It is not internet judge in the original quote.

What am I quoting?

I'm tempted to say, and thus I will say that it is from.

Wait.

You can take the option since you have been brought to court by Donnie to make Donnie guess first, if you think that would be helpful to you.

Oh, I would love it if Donnie would guess first.

Oh, the coward's way out.

Glenn, I was just getting to light you.

All right, Donnie, you guess first.

Well, Judge, I've noticed a few snide references.

Maybe not snide, but offhanded references to recent events.

And so.

What are you talking about?

Well, you said that it's the end of a terrible week.

Nothing has happened lately.

Are you talking about the election?

I'm talking about the death of Leonard Cohen, and that's where I'm going to go with my guess.

Oh, okay.

I can't imagine you're talking about the election.

Aren't you guys over that yet?

That was a that was the month ago.

That was the whitest answer I've ever heard.

Which one?

Leonard Cohen.

Leonard Cohen.

Your guess is Leonard Cohen?

All right, I'm going to lock that in.

Leonard Cohen.

It's in the guess book.

All right, Glenn, now what's your guess?

I feel like saying it's from Grimm's Fairy Tales.

You feel like...

And then so I will, and I have.

A particular fairy tale?

Like

the

scorpion in the Reddit?

The scorpion in the.

The scorpion in the teacup.

Okay.

The scorpion in the turret.

One of my favorite.

The three snake brothers.

All of the above.

That was a weird fairy tale, by the way.

All of the above.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The child who cut off his finger and turned it into a key.

That's one.

That's a good one.

I really like that.

There's a lot of dismemberment in Grimm's fairy tales.

And, you know,

what was my quote there?

A hand without fingers.

So you were thinking, a hand without fingers.

Like, so what are some other fairy tales

that you remember, Snow White?

There's the porcupine that shot himself in the face in front of the school.

That was a good one.

The child that was baked into a pie and then ate himself somehow.

Yeah, that was a good idea.

What about Jack Horner?

Little Jack Horner.

And then there was a dance with dragons, and there was also

a feast for crows.

What was the one you guessed again?

Was it,

or was it a dance?

Was it a dance with dragons?

Was that the one?

I think that's the one he said.

Yeah,

Grimm's famous, most famous of fairy tales.

A Dance with Dragons.

Yes.

Okay.

Well, guess what?

Very close, Glenn.

Very close.

All guesses are wrong.

Wait, what happened to my guess?

Oh, sorry.

Oh, I was going to go with the translation of the lyrics to Labampa.

You're right.

Okay.

Which do include

shit.

No, no, soy marinero.

Thank you.

Soy capitan.

Capitan.

I'm not a sailor.

I'm a captain.

Yeah, and then you know, quesadillas.

Oh, right.

Because that is a subject.

So clearly,

Grimm's fairy tale, Labamba.

And not just quesadillas, because what's happening here, Donnie, has brought his roommate Glenn, his newly 30-year-old roommate Glenn, to court because Glenn eats too many quesadillas in their share department.

And he also cooks up a bunch of stinky onions.

And so that quote was from A Dance with Dragons by George R.R.

Martin, not the Brothers Grimm.

That's where you got it wrong.

So close.

So close.

So close.

And specifically, it was about a specific character.

And clearly, you guys don't know this character.

Major character in the book.

He was the hand of the king to Stannis Baratheon.

Donnie?

Got it?

No?

Got it.

No, I don't know.

I still don't know.

Okay.

Davos, Sir Davos Seymour.

And do you know why he didn't have fingers?

No idea.

Too many quesadillas?

No.

Didn't have fingers because his king, Stannis, cut them off as punishment to him for being a smuggler.

But he elevated him from common smuggler to Knight of the Realm in thanks because Davos Seaworth smuggled food into

that castle.

I can't remember Storm

landing or something.

When it was under siege during the rebellion, specifically smuggling in onions.

And so he served Stannis and he rewarded him with knighthood, but he still punished him for being a smuggler, even though it saved the life of that castle, Stormtown.

Stormville.

Stormville.

Storm

Lightning Striker.

What's the name of that castle?

Nerds are screaming at their podcast

computers now.

Boy, I'll tell you.

And so he took as his...

Because of his humble origin and his life story, he took as his

banner

the image of an onion.

He was called the Onion Knight.

And that's why I thought you guys were both going to get that one.

But apparently, young people in their late 20s aren't just sitting around reading Wikipedia pages

about fantasy novels anymore.

You guys have lives, right?

Donnie, how old are you?

Well, I'm 29, but I will be 30 next Sunday.

Oh.

Boy, you guys are almost birthday pals.

And you live together.

You share an apartment.

Glenn, you are in graduate school.

That is correct.

For film.

Correct.

All right.

And Donnie, what's going on in your life?

I'm in residency, medical residency.

Medical, see?

That's a real respectable guy.

Tell me about it.

How did you guys meet?

We were

close friends from college, from undergraduate.

Where did you go to undergraduate college?

Princeton University.

Princeton.

Oh, boy.

Can I also just add that we were also roommates in college.

So you guys have been living together for a long time.

Well, no.

There were several years where we were not living together, but about six years, and now we have been together for a year and a quarter year and a third.

Fate brought us back together again.

I don't know quite what to say.

That was the most adorable,

like

young new couple thing to say.

Like, well, there were some years where we weren't living together, but now we've really been together for a year now.

And that's a long time.

And 45-year-old dudes over here are like, I don't care.

I I don't care.

That's not a long time.

It is true that I have

it's a brief moment in your life.

You guys are going to drift apart.

We're all going to die.

That's what's going through my head.

Oh, boy.

Well, I have at times said that Donnie is my platonic life partner.

Well, then we better get this settled because you are stinking up the joint.

Well, what are you going to film school for?

I mean, where are you going to film school?

That's Columbia University.

Columbia University.

And do you live uptown, downtown, all around town?

Just off 144th Street.

I used to live on 104th, 105th in Broadway, and then 104th in Columbus.

Not even near where you still, you're in another dimension up there.

All right.

It's very far.

Very, very far.

And you share,

Donnie, what's the apartment like?

Well,

we have a third roommate who, well, last year it was a colleague of mine and now my little brother moved in.

So there are three of us.

I mean, I don't know.

It's nice.

It's relatively newly refurbished, I guess.

Where's your little brother?

Why isn't your little brother here?

Doesn't he have a stake in this?

Did you pull the demonstration?

Doesn't tell me I had to stay home.

Goes way back before he moved in.

Donnie, can I come to the podcast?

No, Ned.

Maybe it's Gary.

Clean my room.

It's close.

It's Greg.

It's not Gary, though.

No, Greg.

No kids allowed.

How old is your brother?

He is, oh gosh, 26.

That's right.

Don't make it yourself.

55.

He's 25.

That's fine.

And is he also.

Are you going to, you're in medical school?

No.

Well, I finished medical school.

Right, you're a doctor.

Yes.

And you're in, you're in residency.

Where?

Also at Columbia.

At Columbia.

This is a very convenient little world.

My little brother constructed around here.

He's also a grad student at Columbia.

What's he a grad student in?

Environmental science.

Game of Thronesology.

Can he call in and tell me the name of that castle?

Sadly, no.

Can't believe I.

He was playing a Game of Thrones video game the other day, so perhaps he would have

to go.

He would have gotten a Davos Seaworth, a great character.

Sir, Davos Seaworth.

Hang on, I I have to remember the name of this castle.

It would drive me crazy.

I'm not going to be able to give you justice.

It's really important.

I'm glad that you made it.

Storm's End.

Storm's End.

The listeners rejoice.

No, Dragonstone.

Sorry, looks.

Oh, my.

Oh.

Dragonstone.

Right?

Or is that the one?

No.

Anyway.

Oh, boy.

Dragonstone is the ancestral castle of the Targaryens.

So I think it was Storm's End that was under siege.

End, Stannis.

Oh, yeah, here it is.

Storm's End, Siege.

It's the first thing that comes up.

I got it right.

Okay.

Our search engines

are so different with my search history.

That's never happened.

My preferred search engine has learned a lot from me already.

Yeah, it's adjusted.

So, all right, let's get into it finally.

Donnie,

what is your beef or fried onions, as it were, with Glenn?

Well,

basically, Glenn,

you know, he spends a lot more time at home than I do,

and he cooks at home, which I usually don't have time to do.

So I would say he makes good use of the kitchen, which I admire.

However, as a Bachelor to the Max, Glenn.

Also, on a bit of a budget, budget, he only has two dishes, two and only two, that he ever, ever cooks.

Pasta, in which he boils one of several different shapes of pasta and pours one of several different canned sauces over the boiled pasta, which

smells a little bit, but doesn't really smell.

There's also grated Romano cheese, which I will mention later.

Sorry to interrupt.

And then the other.

Really kicking it up a notch.

The other dish that Glenn has in his back pocket is quesadilla's literally.

Sometimes in his actual back pocket.

I reached over to

touch Gene's hand and tried to reach the same joke, and then I knocked my microphone out of the way.

This is some of the perils of being in studio.

It's a powerful joke.

Yeah, it was good.

Quesadilla.

It's a quesadilla.

So, what's the problem with the quesadilla?

It's a grilled cheese sandwich.

It's delicious.

Well,

there's a couple things.

First of all,

as we've already discussed, the fact that the onions and the peppers, when they're cooking, create a,

you know, I would say a pungent smoke that wafts down the hallway and lodges itself in my room.

And, you know, we've tried various ways of trying to avert that.

We've opened windows, we've shut my bedroom door, but there's something about the drafts in our apartment.

Glenn is trying so hard not to talk over you right now.

No, you're doing a good job.

Let's finish.

But so, you know, let's finish hearing Dr.

Picky's complaint.

The real problem, well, there's two real problems.

One is that I come home from work, you know, I'm tired, sweaty, whatever.

Yeah.

Want to just fall into bed, go to sleep, and it turns out I'm trying to sleep in the

olfactory equivalent of a Q-doba.

I'll allow that brand name mention because

artfully cruel to your friend.

Well, that's one thing.

And then, you know, that wouldn't be such a big deal if it weren't every day.

day because honestly, like I said, there's two meals that Glenn cooks for per day and only two meals he knows how to cook.

So it's pasta at lunch and quesadillas at dinner or vice versa every day.

Glenn,

thank you.

Thank you, Donnie, for your testimony.

Glenn, I have some questions for you.

Okay.

Are you making quesadillas or fajitas?

Quesadillas.

I can describe in great detail what comprises.

I feel like the peppers, and he does the peppers and the onions and either puts them on the top or on the inside.

So it's just sort of more things going on than just cheese.

We got beans, we got cheese, we got jalapenos, we got peppers and onions folded inside a

seed bun.

Shut up, Donnie.

It's my turn to talk.

And I make three of them, and then I put some hot sauce on top.

And for the few times I've cooked them for other people, I get many compliments.

I'm going to say, it sounds spectacular.

They are delicious.

You know, when Donnie first made his complaint via affidavit to this court by emailing to maximumfund.org slash JJHO, which you all should do if you have fights with your roommates.

I was like, oh boy, this guy is a culinary

depressive

because he's just boiling up some pasta

and then he's just making some grilled cheese sandwiches and that's all he eats.

And I'll say something.

It's a high-carb lifestyle that you're leading.

And I'm a little annoyed that you're not a big fat so diabetic at this point because I can't live the way you live.

But

it's not as bad as I thought.

Donnie, I got to tell you, this is a pretty high-level quesadilla.

This is a pretty.

It's unclear.

I mean, if you were to witness it, maybe you wouldn't be quite as impressed.

Not to

put my friend down here, but

how else would you qualify that?

How else would you describe insulting your friends?

There's never any protein.

There's never any variation.

You put beans in, right?

Beans?

Yeah.

What kind of beans are you using?

Black beans.

Doya, canned black beans.

I will allow that.

I will allow that brand name as well because

that's the first name in beans

that also share the name of an artist.

Well, one of the themes, I guess, of my complaint is the monotony of it all.

And the quesadillas themselves, although

they are monotonous in their daily preparation, and Glenn is also monotonous in how he prepares them.

So they're prepared identically every single time.

The exact same quesadilla.

You mean with the same basic ingredients, or do you mean the procedure is precisely the same in an OCD

that's kind of?

I wouldn't take it that far.

I wouldn't go to OCD, but yes, he does have a very specific ritual and a very specific supply of ingredients.

How begins the ritual, Donnie?

Well, he puts on a podcast and then he

shuts me out for an hour or so.

Well, he chops up and.

I think we just reached the crush.

Oh, my.

Oh, boy.

Oh, my.

That was telling.

I work hard all day.

I am in my residency.

I don't get any sleep.

I'm the only one of us who's ever going to make any money.

And I come home from a long, hard day, and this place stinks of onions.

And you can't even give me an hour of your time.

Well,

I see what you're getting at.

I don't think that's quite...

What I do.

Because,

you know, a lot of the time the quesadilla cooking occurs when I'm not even home.

So that's not usually my complaint.

My complaint is the smell.

smell although

you have two complaints one it smells bad yes so he's a he's an inconsiderate roomie two

you're worried about his dietary and maybe mental health that this is all he ever does well yeah i mean uh you already pointed out the you know the dearth of any other nutrients besides carbohydrates and uh listen to dr adverb over here with dearth that

that word i can never remember means

that noun i can never remember means a lot of or not enough of, but it's not enough of, right?

Dearth.

But what I really wanted to say is that our cabinets are comically, you know, monotonous.

It's like a Targadad, you know, or Doug Funney's

wardrobe closet.

Who's to talk about obscure cultural references here, Dr.

Don?

It's Doug Funney.

You know, like from the Nickelodeon show, he wears the same green sweater and khaki pants every single day.

Well, that could have been a reference to any cartoon character.

I kind of feel

very specific that it was Doug Funny.

Excellent point.

Excellent point.

Have you ever heard of Doug Funny?

I have, but you know, you know, the Simpsons when they change all their clothes all the time every year.

Yes, every time they have lots of new looks.

Yeah.

Lots of new looks.

The fall look is what I like.

Yeah, that looks this year.

Lots of layers.

Yeah.

Real nice.

A lot of unspeakable.

Mars looks amazing.

Yeah, exactly.

And those bomber jackets so in right now.

So, but see, here's the thing, Donnie.

You don't understand that when you conjure up a picture of a cabinet that has all of the ingredients you like in repetitive patterns perfectly arranged, that makes me very excited.

I'm very happy about that.

Go ahead and talk about it.

Well, there are many things Donnie has said thus far that I would like to respond to, but I've been giving him ample room for his fabrications.

And

the problem in your relationship is that you're letting Dr.

Donnie totally run over you and your whole life, and you never stand up for yourself.

You let him talk and talk and talk and talk, and then you get back passive aggressively by burning some onions.

We have excellent communication in our relationship.

I do not think that is part of the issue.

Fine, refute then.

All right.

Well, I would like to say that it is an exaggeration to say that I

cook

however many number he had said.

I'd say I cook quesadillas three to four times a week.

And a significant appeal of the quesadillas is that they

the primary ingredients.

They make you whole.

They make me whole.

The primary ingredients are non-perishable.

And because I have an erratic schedule,

I can count on coming home and having something to cook.

If I have...

Unlike a physician in his residency.

well an interesting erratic schedule yes well

you never know you never know when you might have to run downtown to catch that screening of that what's your favorite filmmaker Glenn oh brother

catch that screening of oh brother where are the Cone

the Cone brothers wonderful filmmakers the

you know I'll have evening classes I'll have to go on a shoot I'll have a meeting whatever the case may be and in some weeks I only get to cook quesadillas once a week but I can count on it in the following week to still have the ingredients and still be able to make it if I didn't have those ingredients, if they'd spoiled, then the financial incentive to cook at all is spoiled, and I should have just been eating it.

So let me understand this, Glenn.

Yes.

In your life,

either you're eating out in the world on a shoot or grabbing a snack at the Hungarian pastry shop or whatever that is up there.

It's always too crowded.

Not a big fan.

Is that still there?

It is.

Indeed, it is.

See, I'm not, I still got it.

I know places.

You're home

eating either pasta with jar sauce or a quesadilla.

Correct.

Now, what makes you decide, because this is what I was thinking, like pasta with jar sauce sounds like the most sad

and disgusting thing

a graduate student could eat.

But then the quesadilla, you're really getting into a thing there.

You've got layers.

It's like five-layer dip quesadilla.

And if I may say this, that not all of those items are non-perishable items.

So there are actually things.

There's the tortillas, there's the peppers and the onions.

The beans are going to be in the can.

I mean, if you're going to use that hot sauce or salsa or whatever you're doing, then that's okay, but that goes off at a certain point.

So there are things that you have to replace.

So this is a meal that, say, you could replace with something else that would take the exact same

time to make with the same amount of non-perishable items.

So is there something about specific to the case it is, is it just that you've gotten really, just it it's gotten to a comfort level?

Or

are you just stuck?

Is it just automatic?

Like, this is the fuel I need.

Yeah.

Do not care what goes in mouth.

There is a lot of truth to that part of it.

I will say about the quote-unquote non-perishable things, it is that the shelf life is long enough that I know how much to buy each visit.

Every two weeks I go to the supermarket, I buy enough to make six rounds of

team.

It's in his routine.

But separately,

it is true that I take no pleasure in cooking, and

I don't like to have to think about it.

There's a lot of other things to think about in life.

This is a sloppy end.

What the hell are you talking about?

There's a lot of things to think about than food and making it eating.

There's nothing.

You know how I

hate to bring this up or mention this, but it is true that those Silicon Valley types often wear only the same thing.

They'll eat Soylent or the Steve Jobs with his third name brand mentioned.

Now that's a penalty.

That's a penalty.

How did it, what was the breakdown?

How many did Donnie do and how many did I do?

It doesn't matter.

Are we both kicking because I'm not sure?

I'm just looking at a 30-year-old with long hair who's managed to mention Soylent on my podcast, and now I feel like I'm being taken for a ride.

You're not a film student at all.

I'm on commission.

You're right.

Yeah.

Well, but that same idea.

The idea is there, like, hey, let's not think about what we're wearing.

Let's not think about what we're eating.

We got other stuff.

Is that something you admire?

Is that where you want to?

No, I don't admire it, but I do.

This is something that exists in our culture, and other people have this tendency, which is I cannot be bothered to think too hard about this thing that I otherwise do not find pleasure in.

You can be bothered.

You don't want to be bothered.

Indeed.

Can we say that?

Correct.

Because I think you can be bothered.

Yes.

Donny, what kind of medicine are you practicing?

I'm in training still.

I'm in internal medicine.

Okay.

I've never understood what that means.

It's inside.

Yeah.

What does it mean?

What does internal medicine mean?

Drugs?

Yeah, basically.

Right?

You got it.

Okay.

So, but as opposed to say

surgery is you cut somebody open and you manipulate the thing, internal medicine is

the therapy is drugs, right?

Yeah, I mean, there's some exceptions like stents and things like that.

Oh, there's always, I'll always make an exception for a stent.

That's actually my motto.

Always make exception for a stent.

Exactly.

A stent is something you use to open a passageway, right?

Is that right?

Like an artery or vein.

Yes, sir.

Gross.

So the point is,

you're saving lives.

Not often, but sometimes.

How many lives have you saved compared to Glenn with his film studies?

Actually, Glenn does have a story about saving a life in the Mekong River.

Boom, let's hear it.

He swam out and saved a man.

I was staying.

I lived in Thailand for two and a half years, and at a time we'd gone to a place called 4,000 Islands in southern Laos.

And it is a place where many people...

Is that an indoor water park?

No.

It's actually where they send the political prisoners in Laos.

But also the

white tourists.

Yeah, but also a water park.

It's great fun.

It's a place where some people use hallucinogenics.

We were not doing that.

However, a young man jumped into the river, and he later reported after I stripped down and jumped in and pulled him out myself.

He was vomiting up water and things.

He said, Oh, sorry, you know, I forgot I couldn't swim.

And then the next morning, it's powerful drugs.

The next morning, we took the boat ride out.

It did have this feeling.

He was on my boat, and we didn't know what to say to each other.

It had a sort of a morning after feel to it, a regretful morning after.

So,

when he jumped in the water, it's weird because

you were in the middle of preparing a Sunday pot roast and

you almost didn't make it.

You were like,

you all were like, I don't hear anybody splashing around calling for help because I'm cutting these parsnips right now.

That's right.

But then you're like, oh, I got to save that guy.

And you saved him.

And you're like, as God or whatever is my witness, I will never care about cooking food again.

The point I was trying to make, well, well done saving lives.

But Dr.

Donnie

truly say he can't be bothered to care about his food.

It's Dr.

Donnie Doctor.

That's his full name.

Dr.

Doctor.

Dr.

What do you like to eat?

Do you ever cook at home?

Rarely.

You make your brother make

it.

I mean, you know, I work long hours, and fortunately, they provide food for us, so I rarely eat at home.

Are you like Glenn?

You kind of don't care about the fuel you put into your mouth hole?

I'm somewhere in between that and someone who cares more, I guess.

I don't know.

What's your favorite food?

My favorite food.

I don't really have one.

I don't know.

I like

just anything that comes with a bunch of stuff.

Just spaghetti bolognese.

And not with bolognese from a jar.

No, no, no, no.

I think it's worth mentioning that, or I'd like to ask Donnie, when you cook, does it create a smell in the house?

When your brother cooks, which is more often than when Donnie does,

does it create a

Yeah.

Thank you.

Let the record show that the plaintiff has admitted that

it stinks when people cook in China.

Please enter into the record that cooking creates aromas.

Aromas.

Yes.

Yes.

Stop the press.

I'm going to do that right now.

What does Donnie cook that you don't like the smell of?

I have no complaints.

Donnie's brother.

It's extraordinarily rare that Donnie cooks at all.

I mean, it's been months since he's prepared anything.

So you have no complaints?

No complaints about how he operates in the kitchen.

What about Donnie's brother, Little Donnie?

Little Donnie, Donnie Jr.

Gary.

He fried some chicken the other day, and it was quite aromatic.

Smelled like fat and things.

But you know what?

I thought, well, great.

Somebody's using the kitchen.

I don't know how you just managed to make fried chicken sound gross.

Yeah, it was really weird.

Smelled like fat.

Ugh.

Smelled like aromatic fat.

I would like to ask a question, if I could.

Yeah, please.

I'm thinking that the issue has less to do with food and it's kind of specifically tied to the sauteing of onions.

When you're preparing this, Case Adia, so I'm assuming that your step is to saute the peppers and onions together first and then set them aside.

Correct.

Okay.

Have you ever considered the option, because you're going to have these quesadillas many times a week,

and because also I know you enjoy that routine

to maybe just take the pepper and onion part out, do that once a week, and then have that in the fridge ready to go.

So all you have to make would be the quesadillas.

I have never considered it, but it is a beautiful compromise.

Wow.

If if only this court dealt in compromise

i just it it's it seems like that seems to be the the the real issue is not actually the case a deas

themselves but that just broke my brain and i almost missed the whole thing i deal in for

you while while you were talking i was i couldn't help but eye the

siege of storms end at the end of age

have you been on there this whole time no no no i'm definitely listening

Siege of Storm's End took place near the end of Robert's Rebellion.

Lord Mace Tyrell and most of his forces from the Reach besieged Storm's End, which was held by Stannis Barat.

I know my stuff.

You were right.

It took me a little while to get there.

You're right.

I still got it.

Hungarian pastry shop and Stannis Barat and Storm's End.

Three.

Three for three.

Three eventually for three.

Three for three for kind of three.

Gene Gray does know a lot about food.

Yes.

And I'm going to tell you right now,

whatever my ruling, I'm going to pre-order you to expand your repertoire

just for your own

life life judge if i may um oh you go that was that was actually my request

oh i wasn't suing glenn for never to cook a quesadilla again in his life

oh i was so i should have asked you what what's more important and i'll ask you now what's more important to you end of onion stink or glenn eats other things well thanks to gene we may be able to achieve all of those ends.

Yeah, but he might, you know, a lot of foods have fried onion in them.

Well, my thought was just, you know.

It's called the Trinity.

It is.

Fried onion, garlic,

and celery or peppers.

Wait, that's genuinely called the Trinity.

Thanks.

It's honest.

Whoa.

Whoa.

Dr.

Words wins again.

I think I've heard everything I need to in order to make my decision.

I can take the heat, so I'm going back in the kitchen, which is also my chambers.

I'll be back in a moment to tell you what I've decided.

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

So, Donnie, Glenn, how are you feeling about this so far?

I feel like we might have gotten to a point where something can change.

Oh, thanks to you, Gene.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Sorry.

I don't know if you can hear me out there, but I was just clearing my throat to remind you that I'm also here.

He is, man,

these thin walls.

How are you feeling?

I am now

more nervous at this moment than I had been upon arrival.

That the judge has pre-ruled that I should expand my repertoire and there is more judgment coming

has me nervous because I cannot anticipate

what other bad news might be in store for me.

Well, welcome to your 30s, and that's kind of what adulting is like, Glenn.

We'll be back in just a second with the judge's decision on Judge John Hodgman.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman.

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Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

Glenn, you're a film student.

You're going to make movies?

That is the idea.

You're going to direct them and write them and stuff?

Correct.

Have you ever seen the movie Tampopo?

No.

Well, guess what?

Tampopo is a movie and obviously a blind spot in your education.

You're not allowed to make movies unless you've seen all the movies, right?

You have to see all of them.

I've heard this.

I've heard this.

Thank you for that.

Tampopo is a movie.

It's not talked about very much anymore.

Did you ever see that movie, Tempopo?

No.

It was a kind of a comedy

from Japan that came out,

I guess, probably in the very late 80s or very early 90s when I was but a youth,

ripping tickets and selling concessions at the Coolidge Corner, then called Movie House, now called Theater, in Coolidge Corner in Brookline, Massachusetts.

Great movie theater.

That was my film school.

And I got paid for it in popcorn.

He won't talk over me.

Bravo, Judge.

Glenn is too polite.

Glenn is too polite.

And Tampopo is a funny movie that followed three or four different characters or sets of characters and basically did sketches

around food culture in Japan.

And as you know, I've not traveled there, but

food culture is a very big part of the psychological component of living in Japan.

It is not just, you know,

nutrient paste that you put in your mouth while you're writing code.

It is a nexus of tradition, ritual, meditation, aesthetic appreciation,

and other big words that I'm sure Dr.

Donny's got at his fingertips.

What's that part of the body called?

Fingertips?

Come on, you gotta know anatomy.

What's this?

I don't know.

Is there a fancy word for fingertips?

I mean, I guess they would call that the finger pad.

I don't know.

Finger pad.

Ah.

Digital terminus.

Yeah, sure.

And in particular, it's a movie about

an older guy in search for the perfect bowl of ramen.

And it really, I think,

I haven't seen it in a long time.

And maybe it just, like

like all kinds of nostalgia, it just exists in a special place in my memory, like a memory of a Madeline.

It's a big literary reference I just dropped.

Donnie's got it, though.

Do you think Donnie got that one?

Oh, yeah, we did.

Okay, okay, good.

But I think it would be worth looking at, because what troubles me

about you is that you seem like a nice person.

You should care about the food that you make.

You clearly do, because that quesadilla, right?

I thought that you were just making a grilled cheese sandwich and then frying some onions on the side just to annoy your roommate.

But you've got, you got, you're opening a can of beans, you're prepping peppers, which are the worst to prep.

You're prepping onions, which can be the worst to prep.

What else you got in there?

What are the layers?

We got, I mean, cheddar cheese, beans,

jalapenos, you're prepping those.

From the jar, they come out the jar.

Pickled how they're very.

No, I'm with you on that.

You're not as disinterested as you seem.

And also,

you're an artist.

You don't want to be one of those Silicon Valley paste-eating code writers.

That's not who you want to be in life.

Do you have other clothes?

Other than the ones I'm wearing right now?

Yes.

Right.

You know.

You know.

You can't.

You got to have different.

You know Doug Funny.

Doug Funny.

You're an artist.

And cooking is artistry.

And that's why they make movies about it.

I urge you to.

This is not an order because people like what they like.

And you may not have the receptor for caring about the food that you make and eat.

But there's a reason there's so many great movies about food.

Bibet's Feast.

That was also the Coolidge.

This is your culture.

You can't just blow this off and eat pasta sauce out of a jar.

You're not a medical student.

You have to be part of your culture.

Your culture is someone who cares about the food.

Now, what I do believe has happened is that you are a busy dude.

You have a lot going on.

You probably have some weird hours.

You have saved one life.

But for the most part, you know, you're running around doing stuff.

And I get that you're busy.

And I think you're absolutely right that you have found this recipe for what sound like some pretty good quesadillas,

and you've found a way to slot it into your life so you don't need to think about it that much anymore.

But

there are lots of other things you can learn to make that you can equally slot into your life.

And

I think a pot roast is one of them.

Are you a vegetarian?

No, I'm not.

Yeah, I mean, any kind of braise,

as long as you're around to tend it, you braise a big hunk of meat with some aromatics

some stock, which, by the way, just buy it from the store.

A lot of this vocabulary is over my head, but

Dr.

Dodd can help me out.

Yeah, that's right.

He's going to start cooking you elaborate meals

like Hannibal.

I will drop a name brand here.

Kitchen Basics.

Stocks.

Vegetable, beef, chicken, seafood.

Those are the ones you want to get.

Kitchen basics.

Do you ever ever use Bach?

They don't make, you know, they're canned, but do you, you know what, pre-made stock?

Do you ever use that?

Well, no, I make my own stock.

You make your own stock?

Yeah.

It's intense.

Yeah.

So, so I, yeah, I've, I've, he, I've, I've been, you know, um

very concerned for

Glenn.

This is a lot of people.

Explain the Glenn

what stock is.

Um, well, basically, it's you want the essence and juices, if that's a good way of explaining it.

Better than aromatic fat.

Yes, it's not the aromatic fat.

And basically, to give a base to any meal that you're making,

and it really infuses it with amazing flavor, and you don't have to worry too much about doing too many other things.

And if you're just going to do, say, something like chicken stock, then you can go super easy and do some salt and pepper and maybe a little bit of wine, maybe a little bit of olive oil.

And that's, you know, five things.

And then throw a hunk of meat in there and you can walk away.

I think the idea is that

there's so many things that you can go basic and you can go simple.

And maybe it's going to be another meal that you get into for

another year or so.

But at least make that, pick two.

And just try to broaden your horizons.

It won't take any more time.

You won't have to freak out about what you're doing.

But yeah, I'm concerned about you.

And you are an artist.

I think judges.

Correct.

Do you ever anticipate having a partner in your life, a romantic partner in your life, who is not Dr.

Donnie, your old friend?

I do.

Do you have such a partner in your life?

Certainly no.

We are bachelors to the max, I believe, as Donnie said earlier.

Don't ever say that again.

Okay.

You're a filmmaker.

You can't be saying that.

You got to be.

I mean, it's okay for Dr.

Donny to sit here with his tie on and look like a weird nerd and go batch to the max.

But you gotta, here's the thing: you have an obligation professionally to be cool.

Okay.

And cool people care about food.

And also, if you ever want to have someone else in your life,

you're going to might want to impress that person by making a food for them.

And you don't want to be...

dumping a jar of ragu over some elbows.

I don't care how much cheese you sprinkle over that.

That person, whoever it is, is going to be like,

check, please.

So I think we're each going to pick one thing for you to learn how to make.

And I would say, I was going to say pot roast.

That's super easy.

So I'm going to say pot roast.

What are you going to say?

I'm going to,

for his comfort level, I'm just going to up the level on the quesadilla.

And I'm going to say that that every week, try to find a new protein to sort of jazz it up with.

If you're just going to get like some, just a grilled, just a chicken cutlet,

you just get yourself some adobo and some cumin, and you're just going to saute that up and cut it up and just start there.

Just start adding a couple of things to it.

You understand you're

dramatically, Gene.

You're dramatically

the aroma profile.

I feel like

Donnie will have to deal with the aroma, but also know that Glenn's going to be eating a little bit better, and maybe that makes it okay.

And you know what?

I think you're quite right, Gene, and I'm going to take back pot roast.

I was thinking pot roast because it's pretty bland and it's not going to offend Donnie's sensitive nostrils.

Yeah.

But your suggestion of protein is correct, and so I'm going to make an adjustment to pot roast.

Look up these two words, or maybe Donnie will translate them for you.

Ropa vieja.

Ropa vieja.

Old clothes.

That's the translation.

But it's essentially

long braised.

Braised.

Latino potrust is what it is.

Braised was the word that made me mention before that I don't expect it.

Low temperature,

you cook a piece of meat semi-submerged in a liquid of your choice at a low temperature for a long time, such that you break down the collagen, which is the connective tissue.

You usually do this with cheap cuts of meat, like a pork shoulder, if

you're going to make carnitas or short ribs or a pot roast.

Anyone has a lot of connective tissue, that's collagen.

You braise it over a long period of time, that becomes gelatin, and it's just the most, if you're a carnivore, it's the most delicious in the world.

So I would say the thing about Ropa Yeja is you do that, and it takes an afternoon.

And then that stuff will keep for a long time.

You can be adding that into different things, having it as a snack.

That'll be good.

And I think that Gene's suggestion that you

do some of your mirepoix ahead of time because you're essentially in the case of your quesadilla, you're using it as a garnish.

You're frying up those onions.

They're going to get heated up again when you make the quesadilla, and that might help with your friend Donnie.

And so

that I think is all fair ruling.

Wouldn't you say, Donnie?

I think that's quite fair.

Although, you know, if I was.

This is Santa McGill.

judge john hodgman rules donnie save it for the uh the

what do we call it the after show the after show donny save it for the after show talking judge john hodgman

please rise as judge john hodgman exits the courtroom um

donny how are you feeling um i'm feeling good yeah i think uh this opens the floodgates to glenn learning maybe i don't even know like five or six total meals i don't know I'm so excited for you, Glenn.

How are you feeling?

I know this has been a long time coming

that I should get my act together.

And

you're 30 now.

Yes.

And I think there's something appropriate and exciting about

poetic, even.

The timing.

Yes, indeed.

So, yeah, I'm going to give it a go.

Okay.

I'm really proud of both of you, and I love you very much.

Thank you, Gene.

Thank you for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast.

I'm Emily Fleming.

I'm Jordan Morris.

And I'm Matt Lieb.

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If you would like to name a future episode like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook, we regularly put out a call for submissions.

If you want to submit a case to the Judge John Hodgman podcast, you can do so at maximumfun.org/slash JJ Ho.

If you want to email us,

it's just him.

It's just him.

It's really going to me, guys.

If you don't get a response back, it's because I'm a monster who's ignoring you and haven't gotten back to you.

But it's always me.

Yeah, but you should try anyway at hodgman at maximum fun.org.

And this is what I've been saying to everyone

in the wake of this election.

There are people in your life who you disagree with and you feel they need to change their mind.

You can't change their mind.

All you can do is give them your testimony, say your words, and understand that they hear you, even if they don't immediately go, you're right.

And hope that down the road, you guys might see each eye to eye a little bit more.

That's what emailing me is like.

You get your words out.

I definitely see them.

And I might eventually respond and become a good person again.

Yeah.

I'm definitely reading all your emails.

I love them.

Please send them in and send in your disputes.

You know what I like?

Disputes between roommates.

Yeah.

We got a lot of couples for obvious reasons because they're always fighting.

Okay.

But

I don't want this to be the marriage riff.

The first time I made that marriage riff joke, that show was on television.

Now we're years after it's been canceled.

We can't do just marriages anymore.

Your friends, your roommates, your siblings, you all have fights, and I want to hear about them, so please send them in.

Send them in.

And you can also hashtag your judge, John Hodgman, Tweets, hashtag JJ Ho, and check out the Maximum Fund subreddit to discuss this episode.

This week's episode was engineered by Paul Ruist at Argo Studios in New York City.

Our producer is Jennifer Marmer.

Thanks, you guys.

A quesadilla is not a sandwich.

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