Greasy Rider

Welcome to the Judge John Hodgman podcast. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.
This week, Greasy Rider, Stephanie brings the case against her partner, Jeff, who works as a chef.

Jeff will often leave his smoky and bacon-y aprons and detritus in his car. Stephanie thinks that the car should remain neat and clean.
Jeff says the mess is manageable and it comes with a job.

Who's right? Who's wrong? Only one man can decide. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman enters the courtroom.

The first thing we're going to do is flush the follicles with five essential oils. Then, we put you under a vapor machine, and then a heated cap.

Then we shampoo, and shampoo, and condition, and condition.

Then, we saturate the hair in diluted vinegar. Two parts vinegar, ten parts water.
Now, if that doesn't work, we have one last resort:

pie hole filling.

Bailiff Jesse Thorne, open their pieholes and swear them in.

Please rise and raise your right hands. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you, God, or whatever?

Yes, I do.

Do you swear to abide by Judge John Hodgman's ruling, despite his naturally bacon-y and smoky musk?

I do. Yes.
Very well, Judge Hodgman. Stephanie and Jeff, you may be seated.

For an immediate summary judgment in one of your favors, can either of you name the piece of culture that I paraphrased as I entered the courtroom.

Jeff, you have been brought to this court against your will by your beloved Stephanie. So it is your option to either guess or make Stephanie guess first.
But you moth, you moth, you moth bust guess.

Stephanie, go first. Stephanie will go first.
Stephanie, what is your guess?

Best guess I have is something from the back of a pantene bottle. Something from the back of a pantene bottle.
Bailiff Jesse, enter that

into the guest jar. Yeah, absolutely.
Done. Now, Jeff, it is your turn to guess.
Let me just tell you right now, Jeff, how old are you?

31 years old. 31 years old.
There are people who are

41 years old and older who are yelling in their cars and by their old-timey internet radio sets right now. Okay.
Can you make a guess? And I'm not saying that back of a pantene bottle is wrong.

It's definitely a guess.

Okay.

Maybe a helpful hint by Heloise for getting out odors. A helpful hint by Heloise.

for getting out orders. Jesse Thorne, is the guest jar full?

Yes, sir.

Well, do we have room for Jeff's guess?

No, we can fit in Jeff's guess. I put Jeff's guess in there, all right.
And then that was there's no more room, right? No more room. I was, I'm, I don't know, there's no room for my guess or anything.

No, no, no. Well, you, we, you don't need to guess, I'm sure you know it.

It's a beautiful dream I had. A beautiful dream.
Let's put that one in as well. Great.
Now shake up the guest jar

and put them out on the table. Pour them out on the table.
Let me look them over. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

All guesses are wrong.

Sorry, Jeff. Sorry, Steph.
Jeff and Steph, right?

Do you ever go by Stephanie?

Maybe Jephanie. Jephanie, do you ever go by Jephanie?

Never. Jephanie and Stephanie, you're both wrong.
What do the tabloids call you?

TBD.

So Jeff.

Jeff's.

Yeah, you can pick that one. Right.

In any case, all guesses are wrong. It is, of course, a quote from a rather famous Seinfeld episode.

Guest Producer Mary, did you know that one? No, guest producer Mary didn't know it. We're here at Cave Comedy Radio.
And how old are you, Guest Producer Mary? I'm 25. 25?

No way you would have known it. No one watches Seinfeld anymore.
Jesse, did you know this one? No, and I've literally watched every episode of Seinfeld and most of them twice. I don't know.

I watched five episodes yesterday. Really? Well, I guess everyone does watch Seinfeld, but maybe you're not all Taylor Negron fans.
Or Taylor Negron. What do you say, Jesse? The actor? Negron?

Negron, Taylor Negron? I call him the Brazilianair. The Brazilianair?

So let's back it up for a second. First of all,

this was Elaine's hairstylist saying to her how he was going to clean her hair. And the last resort, of course, was not piehole filling in the TV show.
It was tomato sauce.

And then Elaine goes, tomato sauce. And then he says, tomato sauce.
And for some reason, this has always stayed with me.

As well as the great performance by Taylor Negron, the Brazilianaire, or one of the two Brazilianaires from the incredibly terrible 1991 film Nothing But Trouble, recently discussed on the other Maximum Fun podcast, The Flop House, which until this week was my enemy podcast, but now is my friend podcast.

Quite the turnabout. It is.
It is.

It's nice that we can have peace in our time between podcasts. To my mind, it's like if the Monitor and the Merrimack were friends.

But that's naval history, and I don't know.

So Elliot Kalen, my nerdy nemesis, is the co-host of the Flophouse podcast, which I guested on

for Max Fun Drive. I made peace with the fact that...

Elliot and Stewart and Dan have a very popular podcast that I have nothing to do with.

And I forced my way into it, and we watched Taylor Negron in Nothing But Trouble Trouble and really had a great time.

And you should go listen to it after you go to maximumfund.org/slash donate and donate to the Max Fun Drive, which is still going on.

And we are grateful for your support.

But the reason that I quoted this particular Taylor Negron quote from this particular episode of Seinfeld is this particular episode of Seinfeld is called The Smelly Car from 1993.

Jerry goes to a restaurant, gets his car back from the valet,

and it smells like body odor. And the body odor transfers itself like a vengeful ghost to Elaine's hair.
And she goes in desperation to Taylor Negron to get the smell of sweat out of her hair.

And I think fails. And I think that's why she was totally bald in that rest of the season.
I think they had to shave off her hair.

I think that was because Kramer had cancer and it was a solidarity thing, but I might be misremembering it. It's been a while.
Yeah.

You know what? There's that great

Twitter feed,

Seinfeld, present-day Seinfeld or whatever it is. What's it called? Yeah, I think present.

Yeah, right. And then it could also be Feverdream Seinfeld.

Imagine plots from Seinfeld. Like, remember that whole season where Kramer had cancer and they all shaved their heads?

It's just a real surprising dark turn in the middle of networks that come from the 90s, sort of like season two of You're the Worst.

It's a price. Well, it was a surprisingly dark show, too.
But let's move on from Seinfeld to present-day day Judge John Hodgman.

Jeff, Stephanie, you both failed to guess the cultural reference. So we are going to hear this case.
Stephanie, you bring the case against Jeff

because he's got a car that smells real bad because he's a cook, a chef,

a food maker. What do you call yourself, Jeff?

A cook. A cook.

In a restaurant in East Nashville, Tennessee.

And if I understand this, Stephanie, he puts all his dirty cooked laundry and old food in the car, and it smells real bad all the time. And you want him to stop.
Is that not so? That is so. All right.

And, Jeff, you don't want to stop putting all your dirty laundry and old food scraps into the car. Is that not so?

That is not so. I mean, that is so.

The status quo works fine for me.

I'm isolating the smell in a car

that

there is no problem with it being there better there than in our house. You acknowledge that there is a smell.

I acknowledge there is a faint smell.

And

Stephanie, how would you characterize the smell of Jeff's car? Well, in my notes,

I'd written The Beast, so I'll never forgive myself for not naming the summary judgment.

Although, because that's what they refer to Jerry's car. Yes.
Because it smells so bad. Yes.
Yeah. Oh, you already knew this episode.
I did.

You should have reviewed this one before you came on. Because

where else am I going to go for a cultural reference involving a smell car? Yeah. Describe the car and its smell the way you perceive it.
Yes. So it is a

it kind of smells like what a trash can smells like after you've left trash soot in it for four or five days. I mean it's like the smell of sort of decomposing food, food,

smoke, grease, kind of, you know, it's just all trapped in a hot car and it just leaves this like pungent, unpleasant,

definitely not faint

smell of, I don't want to say rot, but I don't know a better word, you know, better descriptor. So, yes, rot.
And, but you have your own car. Is that not so? That is so.

But

it means that we drive everywhere that we drive we drive in in my car so you know i don't ever get to ride in the other car um and when the car wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute what kind of car do you drive stephanie uh please say bitch and camaro please say bitch and camaro

bitch and golf but a volkswagen golf yes and what kind of car does jephanie drive

a 2007

silver Civic

Honda Civic. Why would you ever want to be in that car anyway, Stephanie?

Well, sometimes the Vision Golf is in the garage, so we have to have a way to get around.

There have been a couple of reasons. Jeff has needed to take the other car to haul something home because the one car is a hatchback, the other is a sedan.

There have been a couple of reasons in the last year that we've swapped.

And also, we had decided whenever we got the newer car that the older car would be the quote-unquote dog car and it would be the vehicle that we took the dog to the park in and,

you know, the car that was kept less pristine, but that has since fallen to the wayside.

So you're saying your dog, what's your dog's name? Albie. You say Albie doesn't want to ride in a car that smells of meat?

No, he most definitely does.

He also wants to lick Jeff's shoes and his pants and his aprons and his coats. Right.
All right. Let me just get some more very specific details down and then we're going to go to an expert witness.

Okay.

Stephanie, how old are you? 29. 29.

Jeff, what is your age?

31. Yeah, I remember now.
I remember. I remember.

You guys are not married, but you cohabitate?

Yes. You have cohabitated for eight years.
You have cohabitated for eight years in Nashville, which I've never been, but I understand it's very cool these days, full of a lot of good restaurants.

Is that not so, Jeff? That is very much so. What kind of food do you make at the restaurant? I restore every day.
What kind of food do you make at the restaurant?

We make, it's kind of a hybrid. The chef is from Pennsylvania, so there's some Pennsylvania Dutch cooking.
We have scrapple on.

Hang on. Hang on.

I blew out all the microphones.

That was like one of those electromagnetic blasts that comes from a sunspot. All right.
Just

quick question, because we are recording here from Cave Comedy, and maybe Jesse, you set something up as a little prank for me. Is this like a weird, one of those Milgram experiments

where there's something set up in my chair such that when Jeff says Scrapple, you hit a switch and

you trigger pure pleasure in me?

I think the whole purpose of this was to see how many times we can describe Scrapple and its odor before

you are reduced to a whimpering pile of goo.

it won't take many times. I think about Scrapple a lot.

I think I've heard the details of the case, and because this is Max Fun Drive, and because we have all kinds of special fun things going on, I want to get our expert witness on the line as quickly as possible so we can get his take, and then

the four of us can go back to arguing about this like children.

So,

producer in Los Angeles, Julia, can we get our expert witness on the line?

Ladies and gentlemen of the listening audience and litigants here in the courtroom, may I present to you expert witness and frequent guest on the Maximum Fun podcast, Judge Sean Hodgman,

my very good friend,

author,

television host,

bon vivant, and obviously food expert, Mr. Alton Brown.
How are you, sir?

I am very well and happy to be back in your court, Judge. And even though you believe that a hot dog is a sandwich and I believe it is not, we're going to put that aside for the purposes of.

In all reality, between you and I, I don't either. I just like poking trouble at things because I like to see people fight about it.
You and I both know that a hot dog is, in fact, not a sandwich.

Well, my goodness, this is a Max Fun Drive miracle. I didn't realize that

we were actually not going to come to close. That's true.
I did that strictly to be an Asian provocateur. That is all.
I didn't think that. And

the reason that a hot dog is not a sandwich is because the bread is not separated into two pieces. And that, to me, is the actual definition.

Well, look, I could talk to you about this all afternoon, especially now that I know we're in agreement, because those are my favorite people to talk to, the people I agree with.

Be careful talking to him for too long. He's already admitted he's with the KGB.

Jean provocateur.

alton brown you have uh your time is limited uh we have we have a a food and professional cooking related issue at hand so i'm going to present to you the case in a very brief format and then i'm going to let you speak to the litigants and and give your thoughts on the matter and then i'm going to let you go on with the rest of your life is that all right with you

Spiel on, sir. Spiel on.

Standing before you in the theater of the mind is Jeff and Stephanie. Jeff is 31 years old.
Stephanie is 29. Is that correct, Stephanie? That's correct.

They cohabitate in love in Nashville, Tennessee, where Jeff is a cook at a local scrapple restaurant, the name of which I do not know. They have two cars.
Stephanie has a Volkswagen golf.

Jeff has an older Honda Civic, silver in color, a non-hatchback, that he uses to commute back and forth to his job.

The problem is that, according to Stephanie, not only does he keep his professional knives in the car, but also is used in dirty aprons and various unspecified food scraps, making it smell bad.

This makes the dog want to ride in the car, but it makes Stephanie nauseated to her stomach and thus limiting their joint car ridership to her car.

And when it is in the shop, she throws up all over the place. Some of, I've taken some dramatic license with this.

And one wrinkle that I will add, and then there will be another wrinkle in a minute because

I'm not a reality television host, but I know the game a little bit, is that if I have deduced correctly, Jeff, you are a graduate of the New England Culinary Institute in Vermont. Is that not so?

That is so. Making you guys fellow.

That is your alma mater, is it not, Alton?

Yes, but whether he actually went there remains to be seen because your story has got some very, very troubling little pieces in it that I require clarification.

Well, I will let you clarify to your heart's content.

No graduate that I know of of the

New England Culinary Institute would allow dirty aprons or chef coats to accumulate in a vehicle.

At the end of one shift, one removes those and takes them directly to laundry or throws them in a laundry bag. So I'm already

on high alert here because I'm hearing that there's a habit being

displayed in an automobile that does not reflect the code of my alma mater. So, something's afoot here.

Well, Jeff, do I misinterpret that you are putting dirty aprons into the back of your car and letting them sit there? Or I should say marinate there?

You're not incorrect. It's a part of a system of, it's my laundry system.
I'm not wearing

a graduate of the New England Culinary Institute would not wear a dirty uniform or a dirty apron to their place of employment as part of the professional code. But

these

they would shove them into the backseat of a Honda Civic. Is that what they're doing? They might.
They might. Because I'm not sure that Alton Brown agrees with you.
Do you, sir?

I find it distasteful.

But you know what? If there's no other laundry service available, and he's,

let me ask you a question, sir, because

this could kind of make or break this situation.

Let's say that there's no laundry service available at the restaurant. So you have a system.

I would like you to go ahead and describe in as much detail as possible the nature and the steps of that system. Would you do so? Yes, I'd be glad.

So I have in my possession four chef coats as issued by the restaurant that I work at. And I've accumulated four aprons, so equal parts.

What I'd like to do is to limit, if I can, my laundry to one time a week, or because I work five shifts a week in general, if I need to, I'll do a second load.

But so I will cycle through. I'll have four, say this is the end of the week and the start of a new week.
There'll be four dirty coats and aprons. I'll do the load.

I will put the clean coats back in the car and then use those as I go into work.

And then at the end of the four days, I'll just rinse and repeat. So, it cuts down.

Now,

you talk about doing this laundry. Where do you do this laundry? In my house.

This is the domicile that you currently share with the lady who has brought the complaint against you.

Yes.

That's correct. Okay, correct.
There's a bit of hesitation there, which makes me think there's something else going on.

When you say my house, is that indeed your house? Do you own the house? Is your name on the the lease? It is. It is our house recently purchased.

Recently purchased. So the two of you jointly own a home? Yes.
Correct.

But you're not married? That's right.

Okay. So in a way,

first let me ask you this.

Is there no way to seal the offending materials in something like an airtight cambro or large Tupperware or in some kind of trash bag scenario so that those odors do not permeate the vehicle.

That, if I read the brief correctly, was actually gifted to you by the young lady in question.

I think gifted is a bit misleading. It's a bit more of a hand-me-down scenario.
See now, professional television host Alton Brown got to the second wrinkle before I could.

Well, I'm sorry, because

I'm trying to get Brown to the point that, okay, he's doing the laundry, he's doing it in the home,

but he's refusing to put the

thimbing material in some kind of containment that would prevent it from further destroying the inside of the car.

Now, it seems to me that in a way he's doing his lady a favor because he's not bringing the ascending materials into the house and allowing it to sit and marinate there.

The bigger concern is if you're going to leave it in your car, why can't you put it inside something that doesn't allow it to sink up the place?

But the question would be equally applicable if he was bringing the stuff into the house. He's using the car as a hamper.

He could put his chef's clothes into a plastic, you know, a garbage bag in the car or in the home and seal it off that way, right?

Who is the owner of the vehicle?

I am. Though I consider it community property.
It's game over.

This is all over. No, actually, no, Mamma is not community property.
You live in the state of Tennessee and you are unmarried.

It is not community property unless you have established, I believe it's a seven-year length of common law marriage in the state of Tennessee.

We lived in Vermont long enough to be considered common law marriages

before we moved to the city. That is in Vermont.
That is in Vermont. That does not cross state lines.
And so you have a marriage and a ring on your finger.

That clock restarted when you moved into Tennessee. Vermont barely even has laws that aren't related to ice cream.

Well, you know,

when I was there, they didn't even put your picture on the driver's license, but that's, you know, neither here nor there. Wow.
I'm sorry, Judge. I'm taking over.
I'm taking over your show.

I don't think it's a good thing. I'm glad you are.
It's a culinary matter. Believe me, I'm going to see this as a culinary matter.
No, no, no, it's a property matter. And, you know, there is a lot.

There is a property matter. Just to clarify,

for the listener, the wrinkle that has been revealed is that the Honda Civic

belonged first to Stephanie. She has since ceded use of it to Jeff, whom I call Jephanie.

But it is still legally hers, at least on paper. And I'm very glad that you have brought this element to the discussion, Mr.

Alton Brown, because this podcast does certainly not prohibit loved ones from living together outside of the bond of marriage, but it does not encourage it for these very reasons, because they are essentially mortgage married.

They have all of the, all of the, the, the

fun of sharing a mortgage together with none of the legal protections of actual marriage. And that's not something I think is worth it, but that's a choice that they have made in their lives.

Now, just to clarify, how long have you lived together in the state of Tennessee?

A year and a half. A year and a half.
So, common law marriage does not apply.

Is Jeff's name on the papers of this Civic?

No, but he owns the car that I drive.

The new car.

Oh, keep going, Judge. I want to see where this is going.

Well, Solomonic wisdom suggests you just cut both cars in half and then you weld one half of each to the other.

I would like to say, too, that I had presented

to Jeff, and I've actually asked for years that he just bring his coats in at the end of the shift, put them in a laundry basket that's next to the washer and dryer, because I actually do the majority of the laundry.

So, and have offered to wash coats when I see them in laundry baskets. And our laundry room, which is the room that you enter into from

the driveway,

is pretty separated from the rest of the house. It's kind of the room where the dog sleeps and stuff.

So, madam, if he is now willing to commit to you in marriage, what makes you think he's willing to commit to bringing in his laundry?

Is the laundry the only source of smell and damage to the car? It is not.

What are the other sources of smell? Well, as a cook, I mean, on a daily basis, I'm breaking down salmon, which is a pretty smelly oil. Have garlic.
Technically, I think salmon is a fish. Yeah.

Correct. It's not just an oil.

I didn't want to say anything. I didn't want to say anything.
Okay. The oils from the salmon fish get on my hands and then onto the steering wheel.

Wipe them all over the steering wheel. Yep.
Wipe it all over.

Washing your hands at the end of the shift. You also don't have running water or soap at this restaurant.

I'm actually glad that you didn't mention the name of this place because I think that we should probably avoid it simply based on the sanitation skills of the cook in question. Yeah, but they may.

I would like to say Jeff is very clean, but his poor clothes are not at the end of a shift. Well, apparently, neither is his steering wheel of your Honda Citizen, ma'am.

There are smells that linger even after you wash your hands thoroughly. I've got some timeless soap, and I'm not buying that.
But again, as the judge points out, this is about ownership and power.

You know, she's emphasizing her power over your life by complaining about what you're doing to the car she gave you that you don't own.

You're allowing her to use the car that you bought because it's nicer for her daily transportation.

And you don't want to bring your laundry in at night because you're not willing to commit to a relationship. That's how much does it.

I think you've really, you know what? Alton Brown, you have found the crux of this whole case.

That's because it's always the same thing.

It comes down, Judge, to human nature. And in these situations, you know,

I think you're actually.

You wash your dog, you lid it out in the yard, and it goes and rules in poop. One, to cover its own smell, to two, to show you who's lost.
Exactly so.

And how often does your dog roll around in its own poop, you guys? Stephanie and Jephanie?

Pretty frequently, actually.

What kind of dog? I have one last question of a culinary nature. Please.
When anyone else rides in this car, does anyone else notice the aroma?

That's a great question. I frequently give rides home to my coworkers, and I have never heard mentioned.
No, I'm talking about civilization. I think he's talking about civilians.

What about people who ride in your car who retain their sense of smell?

That actually doesn't occur very often, so I don't have precedent for that. Nobody has been in the car for a while besides Stephanie, myself, and my coworkers.

Real quick, Stephanie, because Alton Brown's got to go and change the world.

What would you have me order Jephany to do with regard to your car in future?

How would you like his behavior to change? Yes. So simplest thing.

I just want him to bring the clothes that he has worn during a shift into the house at the end of the day, leave them by the washer and dryer. He or I will make sure that they are washed.

and that they that he keeps his clean clothes folded up inside, takes one, takes it to work. Just that there are no clothes.

What about the knives and food scraps that you accused him of leaving in the car? Well, yes, the knives certainly shouldn't be in there. And

the only food scrap that was in his car when I investigated last week was a banana. So,

you know, keep the bananas out of the car, bring the knives in at the end of the day. And the issue with the knives is that

these are his professional knives. Yes.
And, you know, in Vermont, I mean, we could leave our doors open, our windows down, and it wouldn't wouldn't be a problem.

But we have had a break-in since moving here to Nashville.

And for some reason, they did not take his knives. So that was a good thing.

And I would say he takes his knives in about 40% of the time, but it should be 100%.

All right. So you've heard all the evidence, expert witness Alton Brown.
Do you have a recommendation for this court?

Yes, I think that

she should sell him the car or he should go get another car that's his.

You've heard the word of expert witness Alton Brown, author, television host, food expert, friend of this court, and huge fan of sanitation. You can find him on Twitter at

what is your Twitter handle off the top of your head? Alton Brown. Alton Brown.
Alton Brown. And thus the gateway to all of his many, many adventures online and off and on your television.

And it's so nice to speak with you again. I hope you have a great rest of your afternoon, sir.

An honor to be in your court, Judge, anytime.

Let's have a whiskey soon. You bet.
All right. So we're going to let him go.

And

then I'm going to examine the evidence and then I'm going to render my verdict.

You're listening to Judge John Hodgman. I'm Bailiff Jesse Thorne.
Of course, the Judge John Hodgman podcast, always brought to you by you, the members of maximumfun.org.

Thanks to everybody who's gone to maximumfun.org slash join. And you can join them by going to maximumfun.org slash join.

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But the fun thing about made-in In is you don't have to go to a store to get it.

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they're made from professionals and a company that has evolved from a 100-year-old kitchen supply business. And craftspeople have been working in this for multiple generations.
I'm telling you.

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And

I can't wait for a glass to break or a platter to shatter so I can go over to Made In and replace it right there. For full details, visit madeincookware.com.
That's M-A-D-E-I-N Cookware.com.

We've heard from Alton Brown.

And before I go into the backseat of my car to render a whole bunch of bacon until it smells in there and thus render my verdict,

Stephanie, you did send in some photographs that will be available on the maximumfund.org website, the Judge Sean Hodgin website at maximumfund.org.

And this is the evidence that you submitted, so I want to look at it.

And this is the back seat, the first piece of evidence. Do you want to narrate it or shall I?

I can. So the picture that was taken last week is of the dirty clothes that are put in the back seat.
This was Jeff's kind of first day off after a week of shifts.

So all of his aprons, all of his coats, and his knife bag and a banana. Right.

And the orange bag here is the knife bag. Is that correct, Jeff?

Yes, sir. And am I to presume that the banana is there to help the other items ripen?

That's it.

That's it. Yeah, I think you're supposed to put it all into a paper bag with an avocado, too.
Yeah.

And there's a basket spall in there as well. Okay, got it.
And then this other photo is you have just taken all this stuff out and put it on the roof of the Civic. Is that right, Stephanie?

Yes, to count.

And this is the four chef's coats and four aprons. Is that correct? All right.

And then there's also pictures of food, which I don't care about except for the final picture of food, which is a picture of the scrapple. Just meant to illustrate the many different smells.

that Jeff is introduced to throughout his day. Right.
So there's a panoply of smells.

We have

something sautéed, something...

Jeff, do you have these photos in front of you?

I've seen the photos. And let me just say that on my shift at the restaurant, I'm working in front of a wood-burning oven that's burning hickory wood for roughly six to seven hours.

That smell, I mean, is in my hair. Like in the Seinfeld episode, like it's all over me.
Like, I, regardless of the uniforms, there is going to be some

smell in the car. Right.

And I've taken steps to mollify ameliorate that smell by putting tomato sauce uh yeah putting tomato sauce in the car no putting air fresheners in the car i submitted evidence for that earlier i don't know if that's in front of you or not

did you do it

did you put air fresheners in the car i i did yeah well then i'll accept that i'll accept your word as evidence there's no way i'm going to be able to smell your picture so that whatever difference it makes is meaningless to me i don't know I mean, I'm seeing these pictures.

You did put the air fresheners in, but the smell remained. Yeah, of course, because they're air fresheners.
They don't do anything.

They just add a different smell.

But I see, you know, there's a lot, a lot of delicious-looking food here that is clearly cooked on a wood fire grill.

And then there's at least

seven or eight pounds of cooked bacon

that's not in the car, but photographed. I mean, you're doing a lot of heavy-duty wood cooking.
Are you cooking this? How are you cooking the scrapple? Are you homemaking the scrapple?

Is it housemade?

We do homemake the scrapple, housemade, professionally made scrapple.

Got your chicken livers,

you got your pork product

of spices. Right.

And it's a, it's deep-fried. So it's

basically cooked, pressed. People who don't know what scrapple,

people who haven't listened to the show before and haven't heard me talk about scrapple, scrapple is a traditional Pennsylvania Dutch, essentially a savory pudding that is made up of leftover, traditionally pork scraps from butchering pork.

That you then, it's a sausage, and

you cut that up to various degrees of fine.

And then you usually mix it with a lot of sage and other spices with some cornmeal, and then you form it into a loaf. I guess you can add chicken levers.
I haven't tried that.

I'd like to give your scrapple a try, sir. And you form that into a loaf.
And if this sounds unappetizing to you, maybe you should listen to a different podcast. Because I'm telling you,

this is take a walk, kid. Once you have that loaf of scrapple, it's a dense loaf, sausage loaf, and then you cut that up and then you fry it, either pan-fry it or deep-fry the slices.

And this looks like some beautiful scrapple. And we use buckwheat flour, so it's a little bit firmer than you might be used to.
Interesting.

Well, you know, I'm curious to try this unnamed restaurant and its scrapple.

One last question before I get down there

to sample your scrapple, sir. Jeff,

why won't you just bring in your laundry and your chef knives? The way

Stephanie has asked you to do? To be honest, I don't feel as though I'm hurting anybody. Nobody else needs to be in the car besides me.
I take it point A to point B.

And when we ride together, it's in the new car, which would be the case anyways.

And when you're riding together in the new car, are you wearing a custom-made suit made of saran wrap so you don't stink up that one too? Of course.

How much of the smell do you think is coming off of your

laundry and

your goods versus your person when it comes to the car? I'd say it's 60-40. I think probably you're going to get more off of the laundry that's, you know,

I mean, to be honest, it's not a high-volume restaurant, but we do a lot of covers and it's busy and I do get food on my clothing and it's sitting there in the car so it's a good portion of the smell and with all that wood smoke and all that stuff that you're cooking with in the kitchen Stephanie I mean when he comes in the house he smells like scrapple right well I'm usually asleep by the time he gets home but um it lingers

All right, I think I've heard everything I need to. I'm going to go into my chambers and enjoy some professionally made Haberset brand scrapple from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

And maybe I'll I'll add some chicken livers to it. And while I'm doing that, I'll mull this all over.

And when I have the full stew of my opinion, I will come out of this chambers and render my decision. Please rise as Judge John Hodgman exits the courtroom.

Jeff, how often are you stinking up the joint? Just personally, I'm not even talking about your stuff. I'm just talking about you personally.
How much are you stinking up the joint?

Probably 60-40. No, no, I mean.

That's a great answer. I love that answer.
No,

I feel that I've been a little bit

misrepresented in this whole case. I'm not a messy cook.

I wash my hands.

I just, I feel I work a very demanding, hard job with long hours. And when I get home at 1.45 in the morning, laundry isn't at the top of my list to, you know, for what I'm going to be doing.

You know, I've been on my feet for about 12 hours and running around. It just doesn't seem super practical to be that anal about the laundry to me.

Have you ever seen those giant Ziploc bags?

Yeah.

Those are cool, right?

They're pretty cool. Yeah.
Anyway, Stephanie, how do you feel like you're doing in the case? How do you think this is going to turn out?

Well, before I left the office, everyone said that I was going home for my boyfriend to break up with me.

I mean,

it's certainly been something that we have talked about for quite a while. So

I feel confident that cleanliness will be on my side.

Now, is the reason that the two of you don't enjoy the legal protections of marriage really Jeff's fault?

Or is it your fault? Or is it a joint mistake?

Well, I would say it's because Jeff is too shy to propose to me at this point.

Something that he's apparently been trying to do for a year. It's in the cards.

It's happening.

You know what's really romantic?

Jeff? What's that? Podcasting. Yeah.

Just saying. I mean, we got a little time to think.
You can let it marinate.

We'll be back in just a second with Judge John Hodgman's decision.

Hello. Hello.
I'm calling on behalf of the Beef and Dairy Network podcast. Oh, no, I'm sorry.
No sales calls. Goodbye.

It's a multi-award-winning podcast featuring guests such as Ted Danson, Nick Offerman, Josie Long.

I don't know what a Josie Long is, and anyway, I'm about to take my mother into town to see Phantom of the Opera at last. You are wasting my time, and even worse, my mother's time.

She only has so much time left. She's 98 years old.
She's only expected to live for another 20 or 30 years. Mother, get your shoes on.
Yes, the orthopaedic ones.

I don't want to have to carry you home again, do I? Right, well, if you were looking for a podcast. Mother, you're not wearing that, are you? It's very revealing, Mother.

This is a musical theatre, not a Parisian bordello. Simply go to maximumfun.org.
I'm reaching for my Samsung Galaxy 4 as we speak. Mother! Mother, not that hat!

Please rise as Judge John Hodgman re-enters the courtroom.

Bailiff, Jesse, did Jeff propose to Stephanie while I was in chambers? No, he's letting it marinate right now. Good, I didn't want to miss it.

Didn't want to miss it. There was one question, Stephanie, that I neglected to ask, and I feel bad about it.
I'm not sure that it'll change my opinion, but I am curious to know.

If Jeff made the changes that you ask of him with regard to this car, do you feel that the car is recoverable?

That

it will go back to the nice-smelling civic that you once owned, or will it forever be the beast as it was in the Jerry Seinfeld episode, The Smelly Car, where the odor will just linger forever and you will always remember that you had this conflict.

Well, I think that with maybe a trip or two to one of Nashville's nicer detailers to have it shampooed, I think we can start again.

First of all,

you must know the prejudices of this court. No one who makes a living involving Scrapple in any way

can ever be a villain in my courtroom.

I am a fan,

Jeff, of what you are doing in this unnamed East Nashville restaurant.

It is not your restaurant. You are not the owner of it.
Is that so?

That is so.

But I will

do you think that they would like to

be named in a podcast and have you and your slobby ways associated with it?

I'm not a slob,

but no,

probably best left unnamed, I think. Uh-huh.

You say that you are not a slob, and I believe you

when you describe your hygiene habits.

And you're clearly a courteous person, and clearly you're trying to get the wood smoke out of your hair

before you spend any intimate time with your beloved.

But

I have seen... the photographic evidence of the inside of that car.

And, sir, that car is slobbed up. No offense.

You are throwing all that junk in there. I've seen the stains on the aprons.
I've seen the banana on the back seat. Two words that should never go together, especially

when your backseat has a fabric covering. And so

you may not be a slob

in anywhere outside of this very special silver envelope that is the Civic's exterior, but inside, you are clearly letting it all hang out.

And

do you know what?

You make a fine argument for that because you get home at 1:45 a.m. You work long hours and you want to just get in as soon as possible.

And

so you

get out of the car and strip naked and then walk to the house naked

and immediately get in bed with all of your wood smoke hair and sweat and grease and fish oil hands and cuddle up with your wife. I don't blame you.

The fact is you need transportation to your restaurant. And the fact is, Stephanie,

that

Jeff is

doing his level best, A,

to save you from having all that greasy garbage hanging around in the laundry room, even though you say you wouldn't mind it. He's isolating it from the house.

He's trying to keep his professional life a little bit contained because it smells bad. And what's more,

someone who is working late at night, I think, needs and deserves to have

a bang-around car where you can just leave your junk in the car

and

be able to get to and from work as quickly as possible and just leave it behind. It's essentially like

your wallet. You know, people who live in places that don't have a lot of public transportation,

their car often becomes their backpack or their purse.

And everyone has a different, and the car becomes a kind of personal space. And everyone has a different standard for their own personal slobbishness.

And if this were your car,

Jeff,

I would say have at it.

But

Alton Brown teased out one of the critical issues here. It's not your car.

I know you guys share things in common and you love each other and everything else.

but this is Stephanie's old car.

This is

an element of her personal life that she has

entrusted you with.

And

your treating it in this manner

indicates to her in a worrisome fashion

how

you might treat her going forward in marriage.

This is legally and literally her property.

And

as we know, cars become,

until we finally get past fossil fuels and get meaningful public transportation all across this country and live in megacities and we get on with our lives as a society.

Cars are a place where people spend a lot of time and they establish a personal connection. And you're taking this old personal thing of hers

and slobbing all over it. And so it not only has odorific damage, but I think emotional damage that you are, I think, unwittingly performing upon your beloved Stephanie.

You've bought a car, this golf, that you have allowed her to use, but that is not quite compensation because

what you need to do

is either share everything in common or keep some parts of your lives separate. And all couples who are about to get married or are married realize that this is so.

There are certain things that are completely in common, and there are certain things that have to be kept separate.

And it's also not compensation because apparently this Volkswagen golf you bought breaks down all the time and the dog hates it or something. I don't know.
I don't know what the problem is.

So

the fact is

that

luckily, Alton Brown was here to suggest a very elegant solution, which is that you buy each other's cars.

Stephanie,

you buy that golf for a dollar.

Jephanie, you buy the Civic for a dollar.

And then,

well, no, wait a minute. I take it back.

Jeff, you buy the Civic

for

$100.

And Stephanie, you buy the golf for $1

because the golf will remain shared. And you have to let

your husband to be drive around in it.

But Jeff really needs some junk car that he can just go to and from work. and really mess up so long as he is living half his life

half submerged in a vat of scrapple and guts and wood smoke.

Nothing about that career, unless he changes career, is going to change. And he's going to need a junker to get to and from work that he can smell up as much as he wants.

And I think that, Jeff, you need to put more of an investment than Stephanie does in order to claim that car for your own the way you seem to want to.

And I'm saying until you're married, $100,

and then you can do whatever you want in that car.

I should say 1,000.

Say $1,000.

I should say $1,000. I take it back, $1,000.

You have to pay her $1,000 for that car.

Like, really buy it from her.

That's the damages.

I went from one to $100 to $1,000. Don't test me, Jeff, or I'll add another zero.

I'm good with it because, and I don't mean to introduce a wrinkle at this point in the case, but it's. But you're a multi-millionaire.

We have a joint banking. Uh-huh.

So it's hard to say

the money would just go from me to her back to me, basically. No, it wouldn't.
Because Stephanie's going to open a separate bank account. Oh, no.

Or just like a cigar box under the bed or something. Yeah.

Stephanie is either going to open a separate checking account or, or just a PayPal. You know what? Not to buzz market a certain service

or just get us just get yourself a strong box and you're gonna give her a thousand dollars in cash

and you're gonna legally transfer the title of the car to Jeff in consideration of $1,000

that you get to spend however you like that is not shared

as damages. And I'm letting you off easy, sir.
Because then you get a car and you never have to worry about this stuff ever again. That's a good deal.
That's great.

I'm all for it. That's a good deal.

Otherwise,

if you're not going to do that, then

you have to do everything that Stephanie says with regard to taking care of that car because it belongs to her. And she's taking good care of your car.

And

this would all be solved if you would just propose marriage right now.

I will get you out of the thousand dollars. You will not have to pay $1,000 to her if you propose marriage right now.
What could be more romantic, Jeff?

Not this.

I don't think she's down with it. I would.
I definitely would.

She's shaking her head no, though. Okay.

The right venue, I guess.

You don't want to be proposed to on a podcast under threat of penalty?

Perhaps not.

That's fair. Every listener would like you to do it.

You know, marriage is for both of you guys, but weddings are for other people. Do you know what I'm saying? Weddings are for your loved ones.
We already have our wedding planned. Oh, when is it?

In June. June what? Is it going to be at Max FunCon at Lake Arrowhead on June 11th? That's a great idea, but in Vermont.
Where in Vermont?

In East Bethel, Vermont. Well, if you won't propose marriage right now on this podcast, but you have, I'm very happy to hear you have plans for the future.

I have no choice but to find in favor of Stephanie awarding damages of $1,000 in order to allow

Jephanie to own the car and muck it up as much as he wants. This is the sound of a gavel.

Judge John Hodgman rules that is all. Please rise as Judge Sean Hodgman exits the courtroom.
Jeff, how do you feel?

I feel great.

It's a pretty good outcome for me. It sounded like I wasn't expecting that.
It's expecting a lot worse. Stephanie, do you expect

that your husband to be, will ever propose to you? Well,

it's become a lingering question.

Just like the lingering odor in his Honda Civic. Ah, everything lingers in Nashville.
Everything. That's their slogan.

That's the city motto. Everything lingers in Nashville.

Well, Jeff, Stephanie, thank you so much for joining us on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. It was a pleasure to have you on the show.
Thank you. Thank you.
You guys, before you go,

Stephanie? Yes. Are you satisfied with $1,000 worth of damages in a shoebox? Second question.

Stephanie? Yes.

Will you marry me?

Well, you're the first one to ask.

Well, you know the law.

The law in Tennessee is first to ask wins.

And I think probably, maybe, I don't know, are multiple wives allowed in Tennessee? Because then I could, then it could be legal.

I just felt that our listeners deserved hearing you be proposed to by someone. Satisfaction, yeah.
Yeah, good. Well,

you break my heart, but I wish the best for both of you. Thank you.
Thanks, Judge.

Great news, gang. It's time for another status conference.

It's our new segment in which we check in on old litigants and see how they're doing and also make sure that they've adhered to the judge's ruling and how it's worked out.

We kick this off with Pig and his daughters from Father Nas Beast,

which you can hear in last week's episode. So Judge Hodgman, we have been checking in with our friends, the Bat Brothers, Bat Bros.

Periodically.

They were on an episode called De Fleeter House.

And we're going to talk with Noah today. So at the time of the recording, this is my favorite Judge John Hodgman ever.
I think anyone who's ever asked me that question has gotten this emphatic answer.

It's pretty good. It's pretty good.
Noah and Adam were living in a house that they had bought, a distressed house that they had bought in Kansas.

One of the points of distress was that there were holes in the house through which bats were coming.

And

the primary disagreement between these two brothers who shared this house was, should they fix the holes or just hit the bats with

something heavy. A phone book.

Yeah.

Well,

it's funny because when I often am asked, you know, what is Judge John Hodgman all about? And I will often use the bat bros as an example of the perfect kind of debate we want to have.

Do you treat bats humanely or do you smash them with dictionaries?

And of course, the beauty of it is that while the brothers live together, Adam and Noah, and obviously have

love in one way and a peculiar kind of affection in the other direction,

they are completely different personalities. And I believe we have on the line the the gentler brother.
Is that not so, Jesse? Yeah, we do. It's Noah.
So

since they had this, bought this house, fought these bats,

they've gone on to teach English and pursue graduate school.

But not in the house. They fled the house.
Yes. Your order had been that

every time a bat was struck, $5 had to be put into a jar for bat proofing. Right.
So eventually they would have enough money for bat-proofing, depending on the bat volume. Right.

Because Adam's point of view is, why pay a lot of money to have the bats humanely dealt with when I can smash them? Yeah.

And Noah's point of view is, it's not nice to smash bats, which I think we can all agree is true.

I think secondarily, Noah's other point of view was, it's not nice to have bats flying around in your house. Or to have crushed bats on your bedside table.
So, okay. Hi, Noah.
How are you?

Oh, I'm great. Thanks.
How are you?

I'm well. So are you still in rural Kansas?

No, we had bounced around a little bit.

Last time I went to Korea and then China, and the last time we talked, I think I was in Thailand, where I still am. You're in Thailand right now?

Yep, still.

And we're speaking via internet communication?

Yes, it's like magic.

How can I hear you clear as a bell? But when I try to Skype across the country, it's all bing-bong.

priorities. I'd rather have fast internet than food and things like that.
Where in Thailand are you? Bangkok. And Bangkok.
And you have some pretty fast internet there?

We can, yeah. It's a lot better than a lot of the other countries in Southeast Asia.
How many holes does your house have?

This one, yeah, at the moment we actually have a biting ant infestation, so this is kind of cruel irony.

It's not irony because irony is the opposite of what you expect. But in fact, I fully expected a biting ant infestation.
So you are a teacher there in Thailand, correct?

I was teaching. I'm now working on online course development.
I'm an instructional designer. All the boring things we talked about

before.

When we first spoke and then when we checked in again a couple of years later,

we have this tradition where Noah tries to explain what it is he's doing in the field of education, and I don't understand it. You're developing technology for online education?

Yes, let's just go with that from here on out.

Obviously, I don't get anything. What's your brother up to, Noah?

He and my other brother, who does not have bat problems, are both in Chenqing, China.

I hope I'm not saying that in a racist way. I think that's how you pronounce it.
Are you suggesting that your brother brings bat problems with him wherever he travels around the world?

He wants shame on me.

Well, no, bite you many times with ants. I would say it's more likely that Noah.

Noah is the attractor.

Well, yeah, considering I did have a rabies scare, this is true. You had a rabies scare? What do you mean? What happened?

Well, I was feeding a stray animal because I'm a wonderful person and I was bitten.

When was this?

Close to a year or so ago.

What kind of animal was it? Yeah, I'm awesome. Right.

No, just an average street dog.

And you were bitten?

Yeah, just nipped, but I figured better spend a lot of money and get shots than froth at the mouth and die. It seemed like the better alternative.
I've heard those rabies shots are very painful. Yeah,

probably not my favorite thing to go through. The thing that I remember so distinctly from the first time we spoke was that you treat the world

with a a very gracious and humane manner compared to your brother who wants to smash things. Very direct person.

And yet you're saying he's not having bat problems, but here you are, you've been chased around the globe by bats, ants, dogs. What do you think is going on?

Why do you think you're attracting all this undue attention from the animal kingdom? I don't know. My wife is Buddhist, so she's thinking I did something really horrible the last time around.

Now, that's right. You have been married since last we spoke.
Is that not true?

This is true. And congratulations to you.
Thank you very much. Tell me about your wedding.
Where did you get married? And how did you meet your wife and everything else?

We were going to lie about it, but I cannot keep it straight. So I'll just tell you we met.

Wait, wait, wait, wait. You were going to lie about it?

Just to everybody, not just you. Okay.

Oh, okay. Right.
You know, I'm equal opportunity bullshit. I understand.

But you met you're going to lie because you're embarrassed that you met online. Well, when I say we, I mean, there's a social stigma still for some of those things.

So we as a couple, meaning her, agreed we would do that. You made up your own meet cute?

Well, we were going, I don't know what we met during, officially during the Songkran holiday, which is the big religious one here, but we met online previous to that. Okay.

No, you met. She was running a cupcake store.

That's right.

You were

a hedge fund guy who had started to realize that your life had no meaning and you hated yourself. After you crashed your BMW.

You're neither George Clooney nor Tom Hanks. What is this, 1992?

Okay, give me, I'm out of the cultural loop. I'd be Ryan Gosseling.
I don't have the app.

I don't know who the leading man is. Yeah, you're Tom Hardy.
Okay, thank you very much. I can live with that.

Most terrifying rom-com leading man of all time.

Oh, man. I'm so excited about this idea I had.

Right. You wander into this cupcake store

and you, what, bring a bunch of bats with you? This is where it breaks down them. Yeah.
Maybe

you're a cupcake store. The cupcake store.

Yeah. The first date is you, okay, you're volunteering at the zoo, Noah.

And you need to get, it's it's the zoo's anniversary, you need to get 400 copy cakes for all the different donors of the zoo.

And so she had to deliver them from Brooklyn to wherever the zoo is, Central Park.

And

she did it in a funny way. And then the copy cakes fell and then you got bit by a lion.

And she understood.

I don't know. I think we should just go back to the real life inspiration.
You're living in your house in Kansas with your brother, and there's a bat problem, and you call up the bat

amelioration specialist, and it turns out to be this incredibly capable, beautiful woman, and you fall in love with her.

And then there's a romantic triangle because she's initially drawn to the animal demagnetism of the bat crusher, but then she falls for you. How does that sound?

Yeah, there is some dynamic going on there. They're both trying to be the alpha, and I'm just kind of caught in the middle.

They're both inhumane killing machines.

It's one of those great beta male rom-coms that we love so much.

So we're going to have to wrap it up in a second here because you're way around the world, and I don't even know how many millions of dollars you're spending on this Skype call.

But

do you think you will ever return to the United States, or is Thailand now your and your wife's home?

We'd like to go there.

I keep saying we're waiting for the pitch for the reality show.

The royalties are going to take care of a lot of these infestations.

Well, you know, this is the reality show that I suggested at Bat Bros, where you and your brother go around the country and then the world for Bat Brothers International,

living in houses that have infestations and dealing with it in your own engineering.

We're just missing the camera. We've got the rest of it.
Well, you know, I am now acquaintances with the Property Brothers,

I think this could have legs,

indeed, many, many legs per creature if you wanted. I'm going to try it.
I'm going to talk to them about it.

Well, Noah, thank you so much for joining us to check in on

the trials and travails of you and your brother and the various creatures that follow you around the world biting you. Keep traveling.
It's always a pleasure. No, thank you.

You can't run from the bats.

Judge Hodgman, I'm going to be honest, it

basically reeks here in your office.

I think we should wrap this episode up real quick.

That's because I am wearing a belt of raw pork tenderloins.

Oh,

did you get that from

the new artisanal belt shop in Brooklyn that's Marmaduke-themed? Yes, exactly so.

This week's case, named by John Combs.

If you want to name a future case on Judge John Hodgman, our thanks to him, you can follow us on Twitter at Jesse Thorne and at Hodgman and like Judge John Hodgman on Facebook.

Also, come chat with us. I love to chat with people in the Max Fun Reddit, the friendliest corner of Reddit.
That's maximumfund.reddit.com.

And in the maximum fun Facebook group, just search for maximumfund.org and you will find it and you can join it and you can be pals with all of the nice folks in there.

And this is the last Judge John Hodgman of the Max Fund Drive. We're not going to pitch you anymore, but we will say this.

If you've been waiting until you've got every possible iota of value out of Judge John Hodgman before you got on the internet to support it, go to maximumfund.org slash donate now and become part of the thousands of people who make this program possible.

We are so grateful to you. Maximumfund.org slash donate.
And thank you for all the support you've given so far. And if you think it's too late, it's not too late.

In the immortal words of me, don't, don't do it, do, do do it. it.
Maximumfund.org/slash donate. Our producer is Julia Smith, editor Mark McConville.

Our thanks to Cave and Creek Comedy Radio in Long Island City. Thanks, guys.
Especially guest producer Mary Kelly. Thank you, Mary.
We'll talk to you next time. Marketing podcast.

Marcus over there in the corner looking up his weird conspiracy and serial killer websites for his for the next podcast.

What's the podcast that you do this research for? Last podcast on the left. Last podcast on the left.

If you're looking forward to fine, if we're thanking Marcus, I'm going to thank Danish celebrity Anderspreinholt for sitting patiently outside the studio to go to lunch with me this entire time.

He's learning about podcasting. This guy is probably, he's more famous than that Danish guy from Game of Thrones.
That's how famous Anderspreinholt is. And he lives

in the...

In Bernie Sanders paradise, known as Denmark. Yes.

I would say that he's very handsome, which is true, but only in America because all Danish people are beautiful. It's very frustrating.
Don't ever visit that country for that reason.

That's why they can have the kind of society they can have, you understand.

It's basically a paradise already. Yeah, they're all beautiful, so they don't hate each other.

We'll talk to you next time on the Judge John Hodgman podcast. Bye-bye.

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