CANDACE BUSHNELL

My guest today is so iconic, she doesn't even need an introduction.

And I am so incredibly honored to have her on the show because I am a huge fan of her work, and I think most of you are as well.

Candace Bushnell, writer of the iconic Sex and the City that we all love so much.

She's a best-selling novelist.

She's a TV producer, and most recently, she's the star of her own one-woman show that has been critically acclaimed.

True Tales of Sex, Success, and Sex and the City.

It has been receiving standing ovations all over the world.

I hope you guys enjoy my fabulous interview with the incredible Candace.

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Candace, welcome to Cat on the Loose.

What a huge honor to have you on my show.

Oh, thank you.

Thank you.

I'm sure you must have heard that a million times in your life, but obviously you are a big part of my life.

I've been watching Sex in the City over and over and over again forever and ever and ever.

So I've been wanting to have you on Cat on the Loose for so long and I'm so happy.

I wish I was in New York so we could do it in person actually.

Yes, yes.

So I have a lot of questions.

Believe it or not, people have been sending questions for you from all over the world.

So I want to try to pack in as much as we possibly can in this 45 minutes that we have.

So let's do this fast and furious.

Are you ready?

Okay.

Okay.

Give it a go.

Let's go.

So when you were way back then, when you were writing Sex in the City, when you were a colonist, did you ever imagine in your brain, like, oh my God, this is going to be insanely iconic?

This is going to blow up all over the world.

I'm going to stop you.

I'm going to stop you right there.

You already know the question you're asking.

And

the reality is that ever since I was a kid, And I was eight years old, I was a feminist.

And this is one of the reasons why I do my one woman show true tales of sex success and sex in the city which I'm doing on May 16th at Sony Hall in New York City.

Yes.

And I always

felt like I was going to do something important

but I did not know what it would be.

So I, when I was a kid, I was a feminist.

I'm still a feminist.

And my message to women is to be your own Mr.

Vig,

as opposed to marrying Mr.

Big.

You know, so that's my message to women to be self-actualized and not center your whole life around men.

So

that's always been my message.

And I always.

you know, prayed that somehow I could get this message out to women that they don't have to think the way society tells them to think.

And, you know, that they don't have to think of themselves as being second class citizens, second to a man and second to children.

So

I didn't know that sex in the city would be

the big thing in my life, but I always felt like I would do something big.

That's incredible.

And by the way, I think your message is insanely inspirational.

And you are so correct because I'm the same.

I'm all about women empowerment.

I left a very abusive marriage after 15 years.

And now I'm going after all my dreams all over again at my age.

And that's what I always say.

That's how the podcast started.

I'm saying, be independent, be your own sugar mama, do everything.

You don't need a man to do that.

And it's interesting because Sex in the City, after all these years, even the younger generations are watching it again and falling in love with it because the message never gets old.

Yes.

Well, I think what Sex in the City does is that it gives women a different way to think about their lives.

It gives them a different way,

you know, because the message that we get from society is overwhelmingly that women have to, in some way,

center their lives around men.

Now, all of this has changed hugely.

you know, back before I was writing Sex in the City in the 1980s, you know, people were were still like,

you know, don't have a career attractive to men, don't be too successful.

And, you know, now that has changed so much

for women.

But,

you know, it's still so ingrained in us, these messages.

And I think that

Sex in the City resonates with young women because...

It gives them a different, broader way to think about their lives.

Yes, I know.

Even though it is mostly about dating dating and relationships.

I know.

Let's talk about the sex component for a second because you wrote it, like you said, decades ago.

Do you think, and it's my opinion, I still think because a big part of my podcast is about sex, and I see the backlash on me when I do X-rated episodes.

In this day and age, people think, like, oh my gosh, she's a whore.

I still think it's such a taboo conversation.

And back then,

did you feel a backlash?

Was it less taboo more taboo did you get better did you get worse is it the same no no no because the you know this is what i found

and i found that when women make their own money they have a very different approach to sex so i'm talking about you know women who are

you know, heterosexual.

They're not going to, you know, they're not going to do anything that's X-rated for a living.

You know what I'm saying?

True.

So,

you know,

these

are

women who society was saying that you could only have sex with three men in your entire life.

And,

you know, that you would fall madly in love with a man if you had sex with him.

And, you know, those things aren't true.

And when we see that women have control over their own finances, they have a different approach to sex.

They will have many more sex partners than they're going to have more than three.

So, and you know, sex will be

kind of,

you know, for their enjoyment.

And this is key.

They are not going to have sex with men who they don't find attractive.

Yes.

So that's really,

you know, one of the big differences.

Yeah, I agree.

But well, you, you wrote the story and decades ago, one of your characters is Samantha, who back then is this super liberated woman.

She's doing whatever she wants.

She's literally having sex for the fake of having sex, no excuses.

We fall in love with Samantha.

I think a lot of women, as much as they said, I'm a Carrie, a lot of women wanted to be a Samantha because she's kicking ass, naming names, and she's unapologetic.

But Sony looks like she's having a really yes, right?

No, it's interesting because so many people criticize Samantha, right?

Oh, she's a whore, she's this, and she's that.

If you would have been a man, I feel the conversation maybe wouldn't even have existed.

Yeah, see, I know,

you know, I remember at the beginning, people were kind of shocked.

And, you know, there was some talk of like, oh, these women are whores.

But,

you know, the reality is that,

you know, I talk about this in my one woman show.

You know, the patriarchy kind of pushes women towards a transactional relationship.

Reaches them,

right?

Yeah.

And that's the patriarchy.

Yeah.

So, you know, it's like, I mean, for me, the, you know,

just because you have a lot of sex doesn't mean that,

you know, you're, you're using men for money.

In fact, it's probably the opposite.

So, but that was very confusing to people.

And I do remember some of that, but I haven't heard that for so long.

I mean, I haven't heard that

for at least 20 years.

Do you think the, so nowadays, do you think the dialogue is more mainstream when it comes to talk about sex and women independence or because i see like i said because i'm on the podcast world right and i just see the backlash that comes to me and i keep pushing it on purpose when i get messages of people saying oh my god you have x radar episodes you talk about sex i'm like okay i'm gonna talk even more but i do feel that a lot of people send backlash they're still uncomfortable with the subject do you think it's a conversation that got easier?

Well, I think in general,

I mean,

it's kind of, it's a little bit hard to say because you're talking about people who are online, and we all know like how polarizing it is for people to be online.

And we also know that, you know, any woman who dares to say that she's independent and or she doesn't need a man, you know, gets,

you know, the response that I see is like, oh, you're going to be a cat lady and you're going to die by yourself.

So there's always a lot, a lot of criticism from men towards women who won't.

tow the line in their mind.

And towing the line means you're married to an ugly guy and you serve him and you do everything for him and you have his children and you take care of him and you stay home and you don't have any money.

And when he gets tired of you, he throws you out and you have no money.

So that's, you know, their idea of what women should be.

So there's always

you know, criticism.

Oh my God, it's so true.

Like in my case, I was in a super abusive marriage for 15 years.

My husband was a multi-millionaire and he didn't like me to work.

So I gave up my projects more and more and more and more until one day I finally realized I got to get out of it.

So I'm kind of like the reverse of Carrie.

I was married for a long time.

Now I'm starting my dating life and my relationship and learning everything all over again in an older age.

And I think it's fascinating how we all see ourselves somehow at some point in our lives within the characters that you created.

It's really amazing.

Yes,

people do tend to do that.

Yes.

They do.

That's like one of the genius aspects of Sex in the City.

You know, it happens to be a very standard TV template that works.

Yeah.

So it's like the four friends, it's the six friends in

Friends, the TV show.

And in my book and in in my work, I talked to a lot of different women.

So there are, we all know there are more than four types of women.

Yeah, for sure.

But,

but, you know, people

like to,

you know, put themselves in one of those categories.

Yeah.

So you, you wrote the book, and you, you mentioned before that Carrie was your outer ego.

You were a writer.

But did you see the other women in yourself as well?

Some of it?

Well, some of the other women were,

you know, were my friends.

Like,

I had a Samantha.

She was somebody who,

you know, I always asked her about relationships and men.

You know, I've been writing, Sex in the City was really

a result of all the writing that I've been doing in the 80s.

So Sex in the City wasn't a fluke.

It wasn't something that I just came up with.

It was really my life's work.

And I've been writing professionally since I was 19.

Wow.

So it was 15 years after I'd already been writing about men, women, relationships, female friendships, money status, and power in New York City since about 1980.

So it wasn't,

you know, I mean, it wasn't a fluke thing.

It was really

writing writing for a newspaper that had a huge male readership.

That's what made the difference because men feel like what is in their publications is more important

than what's in women's publications.

So, you know, that's one of the reasons why it ended up becoming very successful and being of, you know, interest to people in Hollywood.

Oh, my goodness, yes, to this day.

Do you have any dating rules that you think are a must when it comes to dating, like a do or a don't, anything that you want to share?

You know, I'm not

that interested in dating.

I like to hear other people's stories, but in terms of

you know, dating do's or don'ts.

I mean, I mean, I'm like a bad dater.

Like, if I go out with somebody, they text me the next day.

It's like, sometimes I don't even respond to people's texts for like a week or two weeks.

It's like, I'm busy.

The same.

I don't know.

I don't know.

It's like, I'm probably,

you know, it's like I'm bad

at,

you know, I'm bad at dating because,

I mean, I've just found like, you know, you put a lot, you know, if you put too much into it, you're going to kind of end up with nothing.

I completely agree.

I'm the same.

I kind of want to date.

I kind of want to be in a relationship, but I'm so busy with my projects and my life, it's not a priority for me.

So I kind of don't do a good job at it for sure.

And, you know, and the other thing is, like, I'm in my 60s.

So it's like I was married.

I've had tons of boyfriends.

I've had my real Mr.

Big.

And, you know, I mean, I've had,

you know, great experiences.

and

i don't know i mean i don't feel like i need to like get out there and fix it and you know have this great love that i never had i i know you i agree it doesn't you know it's like i rather win the pull at surprise yes and you deserve it Let's take a really quick break and talk about a problem that I know most of us have, especially after super crazy long work days.

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So, we have to talk about Mr.

Big and Aiden for a second because people from all over the world, when I ask you this question, as you were watching the show and the audience is very divided about it, were you, did you have a favorite?

Were you Team Mr.

Big or Team Aiden or you didn't care?

No, I didn't actually care.

But my mother cared.

My mother cared.

The guy who plays Aiden is really very, very nice.

John Corbett.

He's really nice.

And he and I were friends a little bit.

And we went to dinner one time.

And all I could think was

my mother saw me having dinner with him.

She'd probably have a heart attack.

She just hates Aiden.

Oh, really?

He hated Aiden.

And she kept kept saying, like, get rid of him.

Get rid of him.

So I don't know.

I was a huge Mr.

Big fan.

Yeah.

You know, I wasn't, you know, particularly

one way or the other, but I didn't think that it really made sense that Aiden came back.

Yeah.

So let's talk about that.

Just like that.

How do you like the new phase?

And just like that.

I think it's fascinating that they're showing like this lady is at another phase phase of their lives, older.

I almost died of a heart attack on the first episode when they killed Mr.

Big.

I was crying like I could not believe it.

It really honestly affected me so much.

Oh my god.

Well, they did do it.

And I mean, it was pretty sad because, you know, I mean, just like the way they did it, it was horrifying.

Yes.

And, and, you know, it was very traumatic.

And, but, you know,

those are all creative decisions that,

you know, they make.

I'm not involved in it, so I don't have anything to do with it, but I love it.

I think it's great.

And I love the fact that people, you know, want to see those characters.

I mean, I want to see those characters.

I want to see what they're wearing.

Yeah.

Looking forward to it.

We have to talk about the fashion third season.

Yeah.

So speaking of what they're wearing, obviously fashion was such a huge part of their life especially carrie the shoes i think she put manola blanick on the map or you like

you put

on the map

one of the original things in the book

and if you come to my stage show which is really the origin story i definitely want to come by the way we're going to talk more about your show but one million percent i want to be there and you will hear the story of manolo blonics and how manolo blonix ended up in the column and the book and then the tv series oh no

so yeah i used to i worked for vogue i had a column in vogue at the same time as i had a column in sex of the city and manolo blonnix were this

you know, shoe that everybody in fashion wore that was pretty obscure.

Yeah.

So were you madly in love with fashion yourself?

Not just the shoes, but the clothes and the designers and all that stuff like Carrie was?

Yes,

I was very into fashion.

It's kind of impossible not to be in fashion, interested in fashion in New York City.

because it's one of the fashion capitals of the world.

So it's a business that a lot of people work in.

You know, know, you know, people who are very heavily involved with the business designers and you go to fashion shows.

So it's, it's always been,

you know, definitely a part of my life in New York City.

Yeah.

A lot of people mention and I got a lot of messages about that because of course her closet was always dreamy on the show and we know it's TV and all that stuff.

But because it was based on your life,

a lot of girls say, but this is so unrealistic for like an aspiring writer or someone who is beginning starting her career.

How can I buy one manola, one Labuton, much less?

How did she have so much?

And I know there's some fantastic phrases about it.

Like one time she said, oh, when I was broke, I would rather buy Vogue than eat because Vogue would feed my soul better than eating.

But

in that sense, is there any kind of realism that realistically, when you were really young and started your career, how do you get to dress well in New York, not making so much money?

I started writing sex in the city in my 30s.

Okay.

I was not 21 years old.

And I think that that's a mistake that the audience makes.

You know, these are not women in their 20s.

That's girls.

These are women in their 30s.

And they're already somewhat established.

You know, they have apartments.

they have jobs, they have careers.

So, you know, it's not, you know, somebody who's 21 years old.

I mean, listen, in New York City, I see a lot of 21-year-olds that are shopping like you would not believe because they're spending their parents' money.

So, same here in Beverly Hills, by the way.

But, um,

yeah, you know, it's like people buy a lot of secondhand clothes.

Um,

I mean, there are sample sales.

There were, I mean, when I was like 20 years old, I used to go to Sackspith Avenue all the time and they had an 80 to 90%

off designer sale.

Yeah.

So,

you know, everything that I owned was, you know, some weird designer thing, you know, and also

she probably would have been given free clothes

because that's another thing that people did in the 90s.

You know, it was, and I mean, look at influencers.

Yeah, they get free clothes, you know?

I mean, people get free stuff.

Yeah, for sure.

For sure.

Now, another question about the new face and just like that.

How did you feel when you found out there would be no Samantha?

Because most people were heartbroken, right?

Like myself, of course, I absolutely love, adore the character, and I love and adore the actor, Kim Cottrow.

I was shocked when I found out she wasn't coming back.

I was like, can they do it without her?

How did you feel?

And, you know, I feel like that's a decision that she's going to make.

That's up to her to make.

And I don't have any, I have no judgment.

You know,

it's like whatever she wants to do.

That's really her business.

But I do really appreciate the fact that, you know, people get, you know, that they still really want to discuss whether or not it can work, you know, with the character, without the character.

It's, it's fantastic that people are that invested.

Yes, to this day, people of all ages are so invested, you know, because I have friends of all age group, like myself, who watched the show when the show was on TV.

and I have younger friends who are literally just watching for the first time and are madly in love with the characters it's like they're iconic they're timeless

yes yes and you know I feel like now that it's on Netflix the show is actually

it's bigger than ever

yeah so

yeah for sure now I want to talk about your show that you've been doing a world tour.

Hopefully, if my audience, I have a massive audience all over the world hopefully she's coming to one of your countries but can you tell us about how you came up with this idea how it's been going you said you're going to be in new york in may right can you share all the details i'm going to be i'm going to be in new york in may

and i started doing it and

i really started doing it in 2021 up broadway and People always ask me questions about sex into the city.

Like, did I really have three friends like the ones on the TV show?

Yeah.

Do I have a shoe obsession like Carrie Bradshaw?

So this show, it's not a Q ⁇ A with the audience.

It's an actual play.

It's an actual show.

But it does answer all of those questions.

So it's really the origin story of Sex in the City.

How I wrote it.

how hard I worked to get there, why I invented Carrie Bradshaw, and what happens to me afterward.

And

it's mixed with my life story of how I first came to New York.

And,

you know, it's a bit feminist.

The message is be your own, Mr.

Big.

And then it's also really fun.

Like we play this game real or not real, because There's a lot that happened to the TV show that happened to my real life, but it's better or worse.

Oh,

wow, that's fantastic.

So, you actually tell people if certain situations from the show really happen or if not.

Well, there's video.

Uh-huh.

You know, there are video clips.

And,

you know, so there are questions like, did I go out with a senator?

Carrie went out with a senator.

Can you spill the tea on this one here now?

Well, I did.

you know i did but did he want to pee on you

no he did not

so that makes me think my virgin was definitely better

um

and and you know it's this the the story um the manola lonyx

and

how i got the column all of that.

And I've been doing it,

I just did it in Prague, London,

Budapest, and Zurich.

And I'm going to

hope it is.

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Again, oh wow, Oslo

and

Dublin.

Oh my God.

Copenhagen, Oslo, and Dublin.

Dublin.

And then I'm going to do it at Sony Hall in New York City on Friday, May 16th.

Oh, my God.

I'm going to try to be there.

I'm not kidding you.

It's actually, it's really fun.

People have a great time.

They drink Cosmos.

Shout things out.

So is Cosmo your favorite drink in real life?

I still drink them.

I love them.

And champagne.

But yes, I still will have Cosmos.

And yeah, they're strong.

They're very strong.

I can do like maybe a half a Cosmo, but I love it every once in a while with my girlfriends.

It's so sex.

And the sexy.

Oh, I know.

They're delicious.

They are.

Any plans?

We would love to have you here in LA.

Any plans on doing a show in California anytime soon?

For some reason, I don't have any LA dates booked.

But I'm hoping that maybe in the fall we're probably putting on our wish list.

We're putting there on our wish list.

But in the meantime, are you going to be anywhere else in the United States in the near future other than May 15 in New York?

I'll be around the New York area.

Okay.

And if anybody wants to find out about all the dates, it's on your website, right?

CandiceBushnell.com is the entire schedule.

Yes, www.candicebushnell.com.

And you can get tickets and all kinds of info.

Oh, I love it.

Before I let you go, there is a tough question.

I don't know if you can answer, but a lot of people send this question.

There is a myth that dating in New York is harder than dating anywhere else.

I don't know if it's a myth and I don't know if it's true, but so many girls comment about that, send questions about that, and even following the show, like, wow, it was really tough for these women to navigate the dating waters in New York.

Is that, do you know if it's true in real life or not?

Well,

I think it's

it, you know, it's definitely true.

And one of the reasons, but listen, everybody tells me that dating in LA is the worst.

It is

because you've got it, you know, everybody wants to go out with like an actress or a model or

whatever.

I don't know.

But one of the realities of New York City is that there are more women than men.

So that always

makes things a little bit more difficult.

You know, like if you go to a place like Aspen, there are more men than women.

And,

you know, if you want to have sex with a hot young guy, it's apparently really easy.

And there are also women there looking for billionaires.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I actually thought it was more men than women in Manhattan because just because of all the trading and, you know, New York Stock Exchange, it's all male-dominated industries.

I kind of thought there were more men than women there, believe it or not.

I thought so.

I don't know.

No.

No, it's too many.

There are more women than men.

And that's always been true.

And

I think that,

you know, it's like young women, they seem to have a hard time dating.

Like, you know, everybody always feels like dating is hard, but now it feels,

feels really hard.

I mean, me, it's like, I don't care because I'm older and I've already

done a lot of dating and been married and all that.

But,

you know,

I mean, even women in their 20s.

Yeah.

Do you think maybe they put too much pressure on themselves?

Because I know I have younger friends in their 30s.

They're so desperate to get married.

They repeat it so many times.

I feel like maybe they're putting too much pressure on it.

Like, remember Charlotte?

She was like that.

I want to get married.

I don't want to get married.

I never forgot one scene.

She was like, where is he?

Where is he?

I've been waiting for so long.

And so many women related.

And I have friends like that in real life.

And I say, like, you put so much pressure on yourself.

I think maybe that's the energy you're sending out to men.

No.

I think that,

you know, marriage is much better for men than it is for women.

And, you know, men get a lot of

free

emotional investment.

They get usually someone who's going to cook cook for them, clean for them.

They get a lot of free labor and a lot of free investment in their health and well-being.

Women, on the other hand, who are married, are not happy or stressed.

Single women are the happiest.

So let's get that out of the way.

I agree.

I've never been happier now that I'm single.

I have to say that.

I can't sleep.

And then, you know, one of the issues is,

you know,

I mean, there are financial issues.

And, you know, I see guys who contact me who are already

and they're still living in their mother's house in Hampton.

Oh, no, that's a huge no-no.

Oh, my God.

You know, I mean, you know, a lot of these guys, they, you know, still live in a home.

They also have porn.

You know, they're just not very

good

at

stepping up emotionally.

And, and that's what these, you know, women are finding is that it's just really hard to make a connection.

And then it's hard to keep somebody's attention because there's so many things that distract us now.

So true.

So true.

Candace.

I mean, if they eliminated porn,

honestly, that would change everything.

Probably.

You know, men would have to make a lot more effort with women.

Yeah.

And women would probably be,

you know, much happier and more satisfied.

Yeah.

So you are so right.

Candace, congratulations on your massive success.

You're such an icon.

It's such a huge honor.

I had this dream in my life that one day I was going to get an interview with you.

And I'm going to try to be there on the 15th and bring some girlfriends.

And I'll let you know because I would love to meet you in person.

And guys, if you want to actually the 16th, but that's okay.

The 16th

of May.

May 16th in New York.

And by the way, yeah, the show is true tales of sex success and sex in the city.

And if you want to see all the dates, more information, including our international audience,

candacebushnell.com.

And I'm putting the link on this episode.

And if you guys are listening to the audio episode, make sure you go to the YouTube channel, Canon DeLouse Show, so you can see our faces and her beautiful face and go to the show because you're fantastic.

Thank you so much.

It was a huge honor having you.

Oh, thank you so much, Karen.

Bye.

See you soon.

Thank you.

And this one is for everyone that loves to play poker and is planning a trip to Las Vegas.

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