ZEN ARTS CEO DOUG MILLER

My guest today, Doug Miller, is the founder and CEO of Zen Arts. They create custom-made, incredible events, weddings, multi-million dollar parties, super, super fun, magical world that Doug lives in.
And also, he's a really good friend. We are neighbors.
We live in the same area. Our dogs are friends.
We never dated. We never had anything romantic whatsoever.
we are neighbors we live the same area our dogs are friends we never dated we had and we never had anything romantic whatsoever we are a perfect example how a guy and a girl can be really really good friends and I love confiding in Doug and vice versa he's just mending a broken heart getting off of an engagement he is just putting his foot back into the dating scene in LA so we had a a lot to talk about. And I hope you guys enjoy this really fun, lighthearted episode of Cat on the Loose.
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Doug, welcome to Cat on the Loose. I finally got you here.
Yes, it took a bit. It took a while, right? But here you are and I'm very happy to have you.
Happy to be here. So before we talk about your fabulous company and your amazing work with Zen Arts, let's explain to people our background.
Like I was saying in the car, not only you're my guest, but we're besties and neighbors. Yes, we are friends.
We are a true example of how, because I get that a lot on the podcast, you know, I've been doing kind of those for four years now. And it's a big debate out there in the relationships and dating world that most people do not believe that men and women can just be friends.
They think there's always going to be some kind of flirting or romantic dynamics. And we are a perfect example that men and women can be great friends from the get-go mm-hmm yeah well

I think you know when we first met if you remember we met at the soul yes and I

didn't know you you were actually I think with someone I was with that you

know who I was with that situationship person that I was with yeah you were

with whatever yeah someone I was with a friend a male friend yes and you came up

to me you're like you're so fabulous I didn't come up to you oh okay I almost said his name the situationship guy came up to you and started talking to both of you yeah he started talking to both of you and then I asked for your because I asked what you did and you said oh I'm the owner president of zen arts and i immediately looked at your instagram like oh i want to hit him up because i want to work with him yeah but i think it was always just friendship no no i think you initially you're like if you want to go on a date i did not yes you did you said if you want to go on a date i'm totally interested i never did and i said you know i're not really my type, but I'm down to hang out. We never have.
You're talking about somebody else. You don't remember.
No. You don't remember putting it out there.
I did not. You put it out there a little bit.
I still have. Okay, we're going to check after the podcast because we didn't.
I swear to God. If you have the text thread from the very first day.

I have the text thread.

I'm sure there's something in there.

I swear to God.

Something in there.

I have the text thread.

I said, hi, Doug, how are you doing?

We met at the Soho house.

And by the way, I saw your Instagram.

And I immediately started talking because I wanted to be your social media manager.

And then you asked me.

I'll tell you what the story was, but I do have the thread. I can prove it.
Okay two sides of this then you said to me oh do you have any girlfriends to introduce me and then remember at the time i thought about alia oh no no yo no but what you said what you said was i'm single no i wasn't no you're right you're right you're right i did it because because i was like hey you seem amazing do you have any single girlfriends and you were like I'm single I did not and I was like Kat come on I know you've got some single girlfriends okay we're gonna look at the travel I swear to God we never had so we're gonna do a follow up episode to clarify yes guys because in my was, hey. Let's bet $100 on it.

Okay, $100.

Listen, I don't know.

Well, if it's not there, it doesn't mean it didn't happen either, though.

No, I have the thread.

I'm telling you.

This is why I started this episode with this conversation.

Because from the get-go, I thought you were, like, super nice.

I love your work.

I think you're very talented. You're an artist.
We're going to talk about all about all of that but same I didn't have the vibe like I want to date I had the vibe I wanted to be your friend and I was really like you know very tangled up in that situation ship I mean I regardless that we got through that very quickly like it was like a but but it wasn't me it wasn't me we're gonna go through those text messages and you're gonna pay me $100 because we got through it so go through those text messages and you're going to pay me $100.

Because we got through it so quickly

you don't remember it. You're going to pay me $100.

Okay.

So we're going to show up on your screen over here.

We're going to show up on Cat on the Lose.

Who had to pay who. Yes.

Who confirmed. But I swear to God, I did not

never want to go on a date with you. With all the respect

I love you and adore you but I think you're

wrong on this. I think it was somebody else no no but anyway it was very simple it was just kind of you just said hey i'm single do you have any single friends i didn't say that because i wasn't yeah you were technically single well okay you're wrapped up in things but you're i was wrapping up you were on the dating apps at that time because i saw you i wasn't at the same time i was like i think on bumble or something and for many years ago because i've not been on a dating app a long time no i will talk about that too because now i'm like oh should i go back on a dating app yeah of course the best thing i've ever did is like not being on the dating apps in the sense of like not swiping but there was a moment around that same time where I swiped, I was swiping, and I saw you in your profile.
So you're going to say you weren't single, but at the same time you were actively on the dating apps. For sure, because I was, as you know, we're not going to say his name, but I was in a very horrible, complicated situation.
I knew the guy wasn't the right guy for me, and I was kind of of falling for him and i was trying to meet somebody else so i could get out of it so i agree i was on the dating apps i didn't want to date you i wanted to introduce you to some friends it never worked out but the good news is the best thing the situation she ever did for me is that we ended up meeting each other and we became really close friends and we did work together and turns our neighbors which really helps right and we're like a block from each other i love your dog you like my dogs and but before we do the entire episode arguing because i know i'm right the bottom line is not right she's not right here and he's looking at the camera he's like she's not right guys i'm right i have to think where you're gonna take me with 100 bucks but whatever but we are proof that guys and girls can have an amazing friendship yes yes so i just wanted to dismystify this silly myth out there because so many guys they write to the pod and they're like no i'm always gonna try to flirt with my girlfriend and the girls are like i don't want to have guy friends because i the guy's always gonna try to sleep with me but that's not the case no i mean i just had lunch yesterday actually with two women that i've known you know that are friends of mine that are super gorgeous super talented very fashion driven women i mean these girls are hot we we're Like we had lunch yesterday. We hung out, we hang out, you know, occasionally we'll have dinner parties.
We, you know, there's those lines are never crossed and we compliment each other all the time. It's like, Oh, you're hot.
You're hot. Like, I appreciate this.
And we talk about dating and like, you know, they talk about the guys they're dating and they're on the dating apps or what they're not finding or what they would like. I'm like, I've been going through a breakup and I'm talking to them about that yeah it's like we kind of just share our relationship you know status and what's going on and I don't know I really do appreciate the women that I'm friends with and I think as I get older I just can't have every woman in my life be someone I'm trying to pursue or date like I appreciate the women that are in my life that are friends that I can confide in, that I can like see a female perspective from that I can just spend time with.
It's not me chasing them to try and have sex with them or date them. I love that you said that because I feel the same way.
For some reason, I really get along with guys because I think unfortunately many times, you know, women are catty, right? They're jealous of each other or they want to get your boyfriend the your boyfriend la la la whatever i love talking to my guy friends because it's a male perspective it's always different from the female perspective and in your case the other way around although i have to say parenthesis you know i'm gonna say that as your friend you don't listen when it comes to the dating thing it's a little complicated because you want my point of

view like the woman's point of view but you continue doing the same shit yeah so you know that's one thing i'm gonna say like maybe you should like listen a little more yeah you know i mean dating in los angeles is not an easy thing right like and it wasn't easy when i was 25 it's not easy, it's like dating is just not easy. It's a shit show.
And there's a lot of, I think being a man who has their shit together and, you know, I've got, you know, several, I have a lot, I'm doing well and I've got a really nice life and I'm very fortunate in a lot of ways. And at the same time time like the amount of stuff you have to filter through

as a man in LA with women it's very difficult and vice versa but yeah and we're gonna talk about that but let's rewind the tape a little bit for people that don't know you let's explain because you said oh yeah you are always around so many beautiful women you have like such a magical life so let's let's give everybody a little bit of your background yeah you are you were an artist you started this fabulous company called Zen Arts Luxury Entertainment.

Tell us, like... Let's give everybody a little bit of your background.
Yeah. You were an artist.
You started this fabulous company called Zen Arts Luxury Entertainment.

Tell us, like, in a nutshell, how you got there.

You were a fire eater, right?

I think, well.

A long time ago.

Oh, I am a fire dancer.

It's a little different when you're eating fire.

I would never eat fire.

Oh, okay.

So you never ate the fire.

You danced with fire.

I would dance with fire.

Yeah.

Kind of like Cirque du Soleil, Burning Man, you know, like dancing with different tools

on fire.

Yeah.

I don't know. fire I would never eat fire okay so you never ate the fire I would dance I would dance with fire yeah like kind of like Cirque du Soleil Burning Man you know like dancing with different tools on fire I think it goes further back for me is that I was always an artist and I started playing music professionally when I was 10 years old so I think as a child I was always gonna be an artist and it's just manifested the mediums manifested in different ways like it might have been a saxophone or a guitar and then it was a fire it was fire dancing and now it's kind of i think evolved into me art directing and producing and directing full-scale entertainment and shows that are runway ready cirque du soleil-esque dance oriented choreography costumes design art design set design.
I mean all these things kind of piled into like the art direction of an entire sort of production and show versus like one tool one thing on stage but it's been a journey for me I think since I was a child being an artist how long ago did you start Zen Arts? Zen Arts we started in 2008 so it's been around for quite a long time. And it's super well known.
I know you guys create this crazy multi-million dollar parties, weddings, luxury events, correct? You do everything. Yeah, I've done theater stuff.
I've worked with Beyonce and Madonna and done stuff with Cirque du Soleil. And I've had my own theater shows.
And then I've done private events and corporate events and one-offs like we did a big party in in la a couple nights ago that was like a private event and then i'm doing right now in talks to do a dinner show in vegas there'll be a residency one of the bigger hotels there for a year versus like we did a show in reno last year for six months and it's kind of it's there's a lot it's a lot you know it's like from private events to could be like I'm just doing we just booked a wedding in the Canary Islands in a few months you know Spain and then yeah stuff in Vegas stuff in LA stuff in New York stuff in Miami so it's always kind of evolving but it's high-end entertainment that's customized generally to either a show or a stage or some private sort of venue yeah I've been to been to a few of your events with you, and they're always, like, to die for. Like we were talking before the podcast started, we went to the record label New Year's party, like, a couple years ago, I think.
Empire Records. Empire Records.
For the Grammys. Yes, yeah, for the Grammys.
I don't know, I thought it was New Year's. And basically they hire you to do the entertainment.
So you had those girls that dance in what you call the lollipops, right? Aerialists. Aerialists.
Aerialists. It's like super sexy stuff.
You have acrobats all over the party and that's the kind of stuff that you do. We've been to a lot of other events.
We've been to that super famous girl. What's her name that did the birthday party in a mansion chloe chloe yeah yeah literally i know i'm like she has the luckiest handle for instagram in the world because it's just chloe oh that's her handle i don't remember not even chloe kardashian has that it's hers yeah so she has like almost followers now.
Okay. But that was a fabulous party as well.
Yeah, that was a great party for her birthday. Yeah, and so just so people can picture in their heads, but of course I'm going to put the link of his website, Instagram here on this episode so you guys can go and see the video so you can like, you know, illustrate what we're talking about.
But for example, if somebody wants to throw a super high-end fabulous birthday party and they want to put mermaids in the pool, you do that. If they want gorgeous dancers dancing by the bar, you do that.
Whatever a person dreams in terms of entertainment, you can come up with it. Yeah.
Do a lot of music and choreography and dancers and costume design. And yeah, we customize everything.
We just did an event actually was really nice um in orange county for a billionaire client of ours and um the theme was one night in bangkok so it was a thai theme where we built a temple over the pool and covered the pool it was a thai temple and you know we created all this different entertainment from like singers and live music to dancers to specialty acts and fire dancing and different things that was kind of, you know, revolved around the theme of Thailand and one night in Bangkok with all the costumes are very specific. And so that kind of stuff's really fun for me where it's kind of a one-off and we get to customize the entire thing.
It's like putting on a Broadway show at someone's house, you know, for one night for a million dollars. Oh my God.
a million bucks for a party. Holy cow.
I mean, for the entertainment. For the entertainment.
The whole party is probably more like three to five million. Oh my God, that's crazy.
Yeah, we're gonna get there. I'm gonna ask about the cost and all the crazy shit.
But, so just explaining, this is why you're always around gorgeous people because of course, you you have a lot of dancer friends. And these girls, obviously, they have insane bodies.
They're so beautiful. So it's like a magical world that you live in.
I mean, I think there's this misconception that I'm either dating or sleeping with all these women that I'm creating art with. Which is not true.
Which is not the case at all. I mean, a lot of the women I work with are half my age first of all and they're all sweet it's a very familial safe environment so for me it's like if I'm working with a bunch of dancers and they're 20 years old the you know we're creating art together it's more my vision of what I need to be creating it's not me trying to get in their pants so I'm not dating these girls it might seem like that.
And it's probably fairly intimidating for some women that might come into dating with me. I'm like, oh, you're surrounded by all these women all the time.
Like you're the world of like my social media looks very sexy. And that's just not the case.
It's not like that. I mean, you don't even do your personal social media for yourself.
It's really just the social media for the company, right?

You're selling the events. I don't have a social media for me.
But I would think that a girl should date you. And we were talking about it because of the breakup you're going through.
I think a woman for you has to be someone really confident in their skin and just they trust you, period. Yeah, yeah.
Right? if it's somebody like with an insecure personality that like if you're in a party or an event or you travel like you said go to las vegas you go you were in new york for halloween same stuff if they think every single time you're doing this multi-million dollar events you're going to be banging a dancer it's never going to work yeah i think too i don't know that people that aren't in entertainment don't understand like how much work and focus it takes whether it's like to be a stage performer or a musician part of a band or to have a show like a theater show like cirque de soleil to be working with like beyonce is that like everything's it's a lot of discipline and it's a lot of work and there's a lot of training that goes involved and it's not as much of a party as it might seem you know for us i think you know we we create i work and create some of the most luxurious parties with some of the most like lavish venues and locations all over the world but for us they're creating that art it's about us expressing who we are and what we're doing. It's not about drugs and partying and sex.

Right.

It's like backstage is not what you might think it is.

Yeah, I agree.

I think maybe people that are not in the entertainment industry, they have a much harder time understanding the life of an artist and the long hours and the crazy schedules that we have.

So maybe wouldn't it be easier for you to date somebody who is in this world as opposed to somebody who is not I mean yes and no it's like I do think like for me it's nice to I appreciate being with an artist too because I love art yeah but also like for me to be with a woman the woman needs to be spiritually conscious and aware and have a good handle on who she is and I can't be with someone who's partying and who's living a sort of rock star lifestyle in the sense of like on the road all the time or like, it's hard for me to date a day. I don't know if I could date a dancer, you know, it's because they're always busy.
Yeah. Or they could be on tour tomorrow.
Yeah. So it's like these, these, you know, to be a professional dancer in Los Angeles, you're auditioning every.
And then, you know, you may or may not get a job tomorrow, but then next week you might be on tour, you know, with Usher for six months or a year or two years. And there's no that's not going to not happen.
Right. So it's like it's kind of like a not it's not a very stable environment.
But at the same time, like these dancers are very young and they're like, this is what they want to do. And there's a short window of doing that.
And I don't know that anyone in that world is like setting themselves up to be in a long term relationship. Right.
But for me, it's like that that world. So, yeah, I mean, I do appreciate and I have had some really good relationships with artists.
And I do appreciate at least someone that needs to appreciate art, understands art, enjoys art, whether they're creating it or not, certainly makes more sense for me than being with somebody that's totally disconnected from fashion and art and music. Same for me.
Because those are all super important to me. Yeah, same for me.
So now you're single again. You were going through a tough breakup because you were engaged, right? You thought that's it.
You literally put a ring on a finger of this person and it didn't work out. And now you're like picking up the pieces.
Yeah. Now I'm back in the game.
You're back in the game. And I think personally, that's the best way to mend a broken heart is to be back in the game and keep trying to find the right person for you.
That's what I think, you know. But you were mentioning that you didn't do the dating apps for a long time.
What do you think is the most chaotic or the most difficult part in terms of, you know, being single and trying to date again? I mean, I think for me, and I'm not really doing a lot of that, like I'm just like just now recently single, so I'm not out setting up a lot of dates. But the challenges are, at least in a city like Los Angeles, I don't know how it is in New York or San Francisco, but we're in our own bubble.
We're disconnected in a lot of ways. We're segregated, and we're kind of in our own world.
So it's like where, like I'm not going to a bars, or I'm not, if I'm at an event, I'm usually involved in the event. So I'm not like, you know, consciously meeting people at an event.
And then I'm working all the time. So, and I'm going, I'm sleeping and going to bed and working out and taking care of my body.
So the things of the schedule is pretty rigorous. So where, where do you meet somebody in midst of all that? I mean, the dating apps are an option.
It's not something I'm doing right now. It's something like people have been suggesting and I've done in the past.
And the problem with the dating apps for me is that it's just this window shopping of like swiping on women. And I think for me, it's like if I was going to go, if I was going to do that again, it would need to be with more intention and a little bit more clarity and like actual like, like for instance, in the past, when I was on a dating app, I probably put an age range from 22 to 40.
Which is a bad idea. Yeah, well, I wouldn't do that now.
Now it would be like, I don't know, 35 to 45 or something, right? Like I wouldn't like, I wouldn't even want to be dating women in their 20s. No, I agree.
We talked about that. I think, you know, if you're putting 22 or something, very unlikely you're going to meet a good match in terms of being in a relationship with.
Yeah. So you got to be a little more focused.
Well, with the algorithm, I think like if the age range is 22, then I'm getting girls, you know, that are in bikinis, you know, on private jets or in yachts in Saint-Tropez or whatever. And I'm swiping on that because it looks good in a photo.
Yeah. And then all of a sudden the algorithm is only showing me these girls that are like hitting me up and wanting to, you know, wanting either their rent to be paid for or wanting sugar daddies or, you know, wanting to be taken care of or don't have jobs or just flat out broke or you want to be models or so that's what we were saying before we started uh recording that the number one complaint of most men always always always i've been doing this podcast for four years now guys and it's always the same thing number one complaint of guys through dating apps is that so many women hit them up for money right away, right up front.
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We love that. I mean, I think the dating apps like there's a lot of there's just straight up hookers all over the dating apps.
And so the dating apps are kind of flooded with like this sort of thing, right? Whether it's straight up girls that are hookers or girls are just looking for sugar daddies or whatever. And I don i other other than like really being intentional and like maybe not swiping as much like i don't know someone told me the league is an app that they send you like four or five people a day right i gave you the but how many people do they send you a three okay it's three you have three options but that may not be bad like because even if the even if there's a hundred options yeah you probably should only be swiping on three options yeah because the problem is at least as a guy and me i could just spend all day swiping on these apps and then before you know you spend a couple hours in one app and you swipe them like 50 women and so then the algorithm gets messed up because you gotta be here you know yeah because if you're not yeah the algorithm is going to send you the wrong type of thing.
And you're going to get caught up in all this bullshit that's out there. Yeah.
But when you were using the dating apps, did that ever happen to you? Like that a girl sends you a message and even before you guys meet and like asks, because that's what I've been hearing from a lot of guys, that even before the date they're like hey well are you you have to bring me a gift on a first date what are you gonna give all that before yeah yeah like oh my god like i'll go out with you you know but bring me a gift or you know oh my god how much you know can you afford me tonight can you afford me i mean i've had i've had more i've had more more situations where i've taken somebody out to dinner in the past and everything's been fine and and i i didn't pay the girl any money or anything maybe we went for a nice dinner and it cost 300 for dinner yeah i'm like she's making out with me at dinner or by the end of dinner and then she wants to go on another date and then then she asks like you know oh by the way i'm looking to be taken care of i'm like i had a really good time with you but like you know i am looking for someone who's gonna like support me and take care of me hey jamie mcdonald here this is my brand new song oh god i'm desperate down on my knees send help from heaven because that's what i need i need heaven and I dead Be sure to check out my breakout single, Desperate, on all streaming platforms. that I think women are doing themselves a huge disservice doing that.
There's a lot of that just in LA. I know.
There's a lot. I don't think it's just in LA.
Yeah. I don't know because I hear that from like every place on earth.
I get messages. We get messages from people everywhere in the United States.
We get messages from people everywhere in the united states we get messages from people from other countries anybody that uses the dating apps if you talk to guys you can like talk to a guy in france you can talk brazil all the brazilian guys complain like oh my god all these girls want something from me you know and i think it just yeah like you said even if they're not hoars but it makes you look horrible like you're just meeting a guy and you're asking him for gifts and money hmm maybe it depends on the app too like I tried the Raya app a few years ago and like that's the app it's like exclusive and every I have a bunch of friends on that app now and they're like oh you know you have to be vetted and you have to be referred and i don't know how it is now because this is years ago but like when i when i got on this this app raya they had to vet you by your social media yeah so you couldn't even be on well you had to be referred first of all and then you had to have like a significant social media presence to be accepted on that yeah and at the time i don't have personal Instagram, right? So my Instagram is Zen arts. So I got referred, I applied, they're like, well, no, you don't have an Instagram.
And then I basically made a case like, no, this is me. This is my Instagram.
I can show you everything to show you that this is my social media. I don't have a personal Instagram and they accepted me on the app.
And then I think like what I found is that at least at that time, it was like filled with all the wrong girls for me. Cause like I was, I was swiping on the girls or Instagram models and you know, like look great.
And all these fancy photos, like girls that have fashion and G street bikini photos and whatever. And so I quickly, like these girls that I would go go on dates with or meet were, like, looking for sugar daddies, looking for celebrities, like, looking to be celebrities themselves, you know, because they wanted, like, you know, to gain more followers themselves.
It was, like, exactly the girl I don't want to be with. So I had to delete that app.
I couldn't be on that dating app. Same.
Raya, for me, it's the same thing. A few years ago, I tried it.
The reverse side, of course. All the guys there, they're wannabe actors.
They want to be musicians. You know, a lot of them are, like, unemployed, but they look good because they have, like, a nice Instagram with all kinds of modeling pictures.
I'm like, that's exactly the kind of people that I'm not interested in going out with at all.

And there are some famous people in there,

both women and men, but a lot of actors,

but they don't want a relationship.

They just want to have quick sex.

They just want to have fun.

Or they even on it.

Because I had a couple of friends at the time that were celebrities, women and female,

I mean, female and male,

where their profiles were on the app and they were never on the app they're like yeah i don't even know i'm not even i'm not even on that app i think some people might have created a profile yeah but they're never on it or like the apps kind of got them you know i think they i think maybe they are but they just want like a quick fling or something you know maybe i i just all the attractive like celebrities that I know don't really need to go on a swiping app to like get attractive women. And then a couple of my male friends that are on the app, like I've seen some of the women they go out with, like I've met them and I've heard the stories and like I haven't heard anything good.
Like all of my friends that have been dating girls off the Raya app, it's like a disaster. Because listen, listen but that's one thing too right that i i want to talk about you you and your friends probably but you do that i don't know if you still do it but anyways you go on these apps and and the the girl that you guys take on dates you know are not the girls that would be good for relationship but you take them out because they're sexy they're beautiful very likely you're gonna have good sex quickly but you guys know that that's not gonna lead to a relationship but you still do it and you keep dating the same pattern of girl i've been like that in the past it's not what i would do now yeah in the past the version of me that was dating in the past you know partying yeah drinking sex rock and roll that kind of like that person was like yeah I know this is not going to be my wife but I'm going to take this girl out on a dating app right but I don't know if I was good if I was good whenever I get to that if I'm going to be on a dating app I would do it with much more attention yeah I would screen girls way more you know considerably I wouldn't go wouldn't go on dates all the time.
It would be very rare that I go on a date. I would screen the person more heavily.
I don't know. I'm just still not there because I think I'm just scared of having to swipe on photos on my phone to consider someone.
But, you know, I've had a couple of friends that are doing matchmaking, which I haven't done. But matchmaking is done but matchmaking is like a fortune yeah I mean my friends are a couple of the companies are working with they're paying 10 15 20 grand I'll tell you you know I've interviewed pretty much every matchmaker out there they all have like their little crazy theories and everything I never had a great experience with matchmakers because they all try to match me because they've been on the podcast and i don't think they do a great job i'm not sure as a guy and no disrespect to them i would pay this kind of money to you know for a service but i mean it depends how badly i don't i mean i probably have three or four friends that have like paid this kind of money i hope none of my friends it's worked.
That's what I'm saying. They keep talking about other people they know that it's worked out for.
Somehow they've been convinced. Yeah.
Like one of my friends has tried it and he's had no success. Yeah.
I mean, they do send him really good quality girls. Yeah.
It's like, okay, like they'll send him this girl who's like a Stanford grad and is a CEO of some company. But there's just something that doesn't work out or doesn't make sense, like nothing works.
I don't think they do a good job like figuring out if the two people really match and want the same things. You know what I mean? It's kind of like luck because like if you pay them, they have a database of girls.
So they got to pick from that database and they promise you, usually that's how the matchmakers, they promise you three or four dates and so they have to deliver so whoever is on that database they have to do as best as they can you know what i mean i mean i'm sure they have their rate of success but for me it honestly never ever ever they've sent me on like a half-assed decent date i mean my, my only personal interaction with a matchmaker

was like a couple years,

a few years ago,

maybe right before COVID. It was like

someone approached me that was

a matchmaker and they had

a girl that was one of their clients.

It was a woman who was paying

all this money. Very, very

wealthy woman. And they found me

and they said that like, I was a potential match wasn't she salt lake city or something i mean i'm not getting into like you know where she was okay but she was out of the out of town yes i remember that lady yeah yeah and they wanted they she was gonna fly in to meet me blah blah blah and like they i don't know for some reason they they found me just, they found me. Just like they find anyone, I'm sure, right? The matchmakers, I'm sure they're scouring social media and whatever.
But they found me and they're like, we have the perfect girl for you. And I'm like, you're a matchmaker.
I'm like, no, you don't have to pay. She's already paying us.
But we want to set up a date with you guys. I remember that.
Yeah. So that's my only experience.
But it didn't work. No, no, it wasn't.
It was not a match at all. No're friends her and I had spoken and we're friends now nothing happened between us it just wasn't the right fit but yeah I guess whatever she was paying didn't work out for her either but we're friends there you go and another thing that matchmakers do that I personally really don't like and disagree with, and including many of them that have been on the show, you guys can go listen to the episodes and make your own conclusions.
But they have these rules, like these absurd rules. For example, most of them, they tell the women, like, don't have sex until you're in a committed relationship.
Like, withhold sex. Okay.
Withhold it. But do they but do they even control that what does that well no because they say it's a rule and if we find out you had sex we're gonna kick you out and we're completely against it most of them that's and i think it's absurd personally to tell someone because i almost think it's like emotional black male somehow like one of my guy friends said like you're basically holding the vagina hostage because you want to date someone, because I almost think it's like emotional blackmail somehow.
Like one of my guy friends said, like you're basically holding the vagina hostage because you want to date someone for six months, whatever it takes, two months, three months, six months, and not have sex until the guy looks at you and says, oh, okay, I want to be in a committed, monogamous relationship with you. How do you know if you don't know if you guys have sexual chemistry? I don't even think that exists.

I mean, that kind of dating doesn't, I mean, not with, it doesn't work for me. There's no way.
Same. I mean, where I'm at right now in my life is that I could go out on dates and not have sex because I'm just not, that's not what I'm rushing to do right now.
Right. But like months? No, there's no way.
That's what I'm saying. I'm never rushed ever, ever, ever.
But after a while, I want to know if the sex is good before I commit to be with that person only. I mean, if I was someone I'm friends with, like there's some women that I'm friends with, like where we've already established we're in the friend zone kind of thing.
Yeah. And then maybe over months or years or or whatever like as friends and there starts to turn like some attraction you know then maybe that could could kind of manifest or grow that way totally different but to set things up as like i'm going on a date yeah and it's interesting because i talked to the women i was with yesterday my friends they're both like wanting to take things very slow and they're going on dates so like they really want to take things slow like they want they want to take months and months they don't want to sleep with anyone right away and yeah and but they're on the dating apps and going on dates and you know we were having this conversation of like well okay how do you take it slow because like if you're on a dating app and you're going out on a date it's like I would respect that the woman doesn't want to sleep with me right away but what how long is that how many dates am I gonna take exactly how much time I gonna spend with her because let's just say it turns into four dates five dates now it's a couple months yeah well now we're just in the friend zone it's like am I am I'm gonna shut that attractive or i'm probably just gonna move into a friendship and not really pursue anything yeah but but at what point do you both feel safe and comfortable to like cross the boundary or you're going to end up going on a date with someone else right because that one because that one's my friend now i'm in the friend zone so we're gonna yeah i'm gonna going to start seeking something from someone else.
But that's what I'm saying. This is why I disagree so much with the way matchmaker do things.
I don't think it's a good way to convince someone to commit with you, to being only with you, withholding sex. I think it's just a bad game to play.
Maybe the matchmakers think that there's more success by by withholding sex. I, I, well, I'm just saying me, I disagree.
You know, I, I, you know, I don't date a lot, but when I date after so many dates, I'm like, okay, we have to have sex. Cause if the sex sucks, you know, to me, it's a deal breaker.
I don't want to be in a relationship with someone that I don't have physical chemistry with. No, I mean, I couldn't be with somebody like for a long period of time and not like explore the physical connection either.
Exactly. So I don't know.
Maybe you should go back to the dating apps. I wouldn't even know which apps at this point.
I told you you should do Bumble. Bumble is always great.
Maybe Hinge. You know, you should try a few.
Put yourself out there. There's no new app? These are apps that have been going on for so many years.
There's no new apps out there that are better. Not that I heard of.
I know that, I mean, to me, Tinder is a shit show. I don't recommend Tinder.
I think it's the worst quality of people. Yeah.
It's the same company as Hinge. Yeah, but they're very different.
I used to be on Tinder years ago, too, and that was better when I was traveling. Yeah.
Like, Tinder, in some countries, people, like, are not using Bumble, right? Oh, yeah. So it could be, like, whatever, Europe or South America or wherever, they might use Tinder more.
But, I mean, in my experience, but, like, again, my dating app experience is, like, five years ago or something. So I'm not sure what the dating app world looks like now.
I know you have a broken heart now. But like I said, you know, I think you need to put yourself out there because this is my opinion.
When you keep insisting on trying to be with the wrong person, which is what you were trying to do, the right person is out there trying to find you. And you need to give them an opportunity to find you.
you yeah you got to be available yeah you know you have to be available and give them a chance because they don't know where you are they're not going to knock at your door right and i think there's nothing better like once you are in a happy wonderful fulfilling relationship with someone that really accepts you is the best remedy for forgetting you know the crap that did not did not accept. If it's with intention, like I want to.
Yeah. I think like, of course, I want to be in a relationship.
Of course, I want to find like the right woman. But I also don't want to distract myself with the wrong women.
And like, I don't want to get into a habit of like, you know, like serial dating or like trying to hook up with women or partying. It's like, OK, yeah, of course I want to be in a relationship.
So that needs to be with intention. It needs to be clear.
It needs to be like, I need to screen these people more carefully. You have to be very picky.
And I think I told you one thing that I do. I always say like, do you want to do a video date? Because if the person tells you no, they just want to take them to dinner or something.
They don't want to do a video date or talk on the phone with you. Usually it's like a red flag.
Like they have something to hide. If they have nothing to hide.
So it's like we meet and it's like, okay, let's talk on FaceTime or video. Yeah, exactly.
I mean, I would do that. Exactly.
I don't think I'd jump into a date with anyone that I didn't feel super comfortable with. Right.
Who I hadn't at least seen videos. didn't do a FaceTime video I definitely would need to see a significant amount of like social media videos or something right or send me videos no I would I don't know I'd never I don't think maybe 20 years ago when dating apps started or something you know you there were surprises or you didn't know if people showed up like their photos I don't think now it's like at least for me it would be i just wouldn't end up with someone it doesn't look like their photo right video i mean they may not have chemistry people do that you know people do that that's gaslighting is that gaslighting um or that's no that's um that's fishing it's it's catfishing catfishing it has happened to me in a while it has i i've i was catfished in the past like i see these pictures of this guy and everything and we text and then when i show up at the restaurant i barely recognize that i'm like dude what's wrong with you like they don't even have photos by 20 years yeah from 2030 or something whatever yeah so this is why after that i'm like no i my time is so precious i am never gonna go anywhere without like doing a video call and stuff because people that are real and honest they have no problem showing themselves you know telling you who they are yeah no i mean for me if i was gonna take you out from a dating app i would be like show me your instagram yeah i'd be like send me a video yeah i probably would be a little more obnoxious about it like let's facetime show me a video like there's no way i'm gonna take you out because i'm not gonna do a coffee date like i'm just not a starbucks like let's meet oh my god i saw some relationship coach so boring years ago she was a relationship coach and she was like basically you got to play the numbers game where like she was saying the best way to to date off the dating apps is to like set up multiple coffee dates oh my god that's horrible she like she'd post up at like starbucks and have like five six dates oh my god she's like you can't just go out and waste like time on dinners and drinks and this is like horrible advice you know if i'm gonna go on a date i want to be at a I want to have maybe a glass of wine.
And so I'm going to screen the girl enough that I know I'm going to be okay having dinner with. Now, you get to dinner, the chemistry may or may not be there.
But I don't know. I just, I can't remember the last time where I like, you know, met someone, you know, I didn't know.
I took out to dinner where there was like some massive surprise. I mean.
But this lady, this relationship coach, whoever he is. He's a woman, yeah.
Yeah, this, you know, this serial dating, like coffee shop, it just, it's like desperation. Yeah, it seems like a lot of work to me.
It transpires. It's like you're going to set up, you're like set down, like an interview process, like might as well have applications out.
Exactly, like, oh my God. Someone like putting name tags on them.
I know. It's like a whole thing whole thing i couldn't do that yeah no never yet i think that's horrible advice whoever this woman is don't do it date with intention take your time i am a good example right we were talking about my situationship i was tangled up in that for two years and i kept letting this wrong person come back as you know very well and like taking crumbs and if you're taking crumbs taking crumbs taking crumbs it starts messing up with your self-esteem messing up with your ego and then if you give yourself a chance to someone else you might find somebody that treats you really well and you could see yourself like in a happy wonderful amazing relationship and this is what you deserve much more than crumbs.
Yeah, no crumbs. No crumbs.
Can we do like a no crumbs party? No crumbs party. No crumbs party.
No crumbs party. Invite all the single people.
No crumbs. Yeah, we could do like, you know what? I saw one time on, remember Sex and the City? I love that idea.
Like they did a party that it was all singles and each single person should bring a single friend to see like if their single friends liked each other that's a good idea maybe we could do that yeah one of them i think everyone should be having dinner parties and inviting single people like i i think i'd much rather have a dinner party at home yeah invite a few people and then everyone's gotta invite someone single so there's like you know that's what i meant in this case like everybody say hey bring a single friend so you never even if hopefully there is somebody has chemistry with somebody else if not then you just meet like a bunch of new people yeah i think that's a good idea yeah but before we run out of time um zen arts is doing amazingly well right we're in the middle of a party season holidays holidays you're're planning all these incredible parties. You plan Christmas parties, you plan new year's parties, birthday parties, everything under the sun, right? What is the biggest budget anyone ever gave you for a party? Oh, that's a really good one.
I mean, we did a, uh, a $10 million wedding. Oh my God.
In Florida for, it was an, for Indian wedding. That was pretty lavish.
Wow. $10 million? Just for entertainment or for the whole wedding? No, the whole wedding was $10 million.
I mean, that's a lot. How much for entertainment? It was probably like a million and a half.
Oh, my God. I think it was over a million in flowers.
Wow. A million dollars in flowers.
We've done some pretty lavish weddings, but I see the Indians are the most lavish that I've experienced. They spend serious money, right? They don't spend any expense.
I hope the marriage lasts forever for this one. I'm not sure what the success rate is.
Did anybody ever ask, do you remember the craziest thing anybody wanted in a party? and could you do it?

Yeah, I mean, we've had, you know,

I've been doing it. craziest thing anybody wanted in a party and could you do it um yeah i mean we've had i've you know i've had so like there was a time kind of even before pink started flying around stadiums where someone wanted so you know an artist to fly around a stadium and we made that happen we're like with with three-dimensional flying and it's probably a couple million dollars to do this kind of rigging and kind of using this sort of sophisticated flying systems.
But I mean, I've also had clients that have asked me, like, can we have six girls peeing in champagne glasses? I get kind of a little bit of everything, from like high-end. And you're like, yeah, if you're peeing, yes, right? Stadium stuff.
But what's the answer to that? Yes. Can they pee in the champagne glass? Yes.
Oh, I mean, yeah, we could do that. Oh, my God.
We could do that. I mean, people with money, they can get crazy, right? Yeah.
I mean, yeah. I can only imagine.
I don't tend to do anything that sexually overt, you know, unless it really makes sense. But yeah, we do a little bit of everything.
I can only imagine the stuff you must have seen in all the years you've been doing parties. But it's a really fun life.
It is fun. Yeah, it's fun.
Well, thank you so much for being on Cat on the Loose. Thank you.
I am sure Love is trying to find you. I'm looking.
So keep on. Yes, he's looking, ladies.
So if you're listening to the audio episode, he looked at the camera again. If you're listening to the audio episode, don't forget to, you can watch the entire video episode on our YouTube channel, Cat on the Loose podcast, and you can see mini bits and clips of our episode on our social media, real Cat on the Loose and Cat Zamuto is all over the place.
And to see Doug, the Instagram is Zen Arts, LA, right? Instagram is Zen Arts and I mean that's the best place to see you. There are a few pictures of you there but not a lot.
He's very mysterious but if you girls want to meet him feel free to send me a DM and I'll hook you up. Slide into her DMs.
Or Zed Arts' DMs. Yeah.
Slide into Zed Arts' DMs. Better, better.
Okay, okay. Do go straight to the source.
Thank you, Doug. It was such a pleasure.
And I'm sure I won 100 bucks from you. No, no.
You're going to buy me breakfast. Okay, we'll see.
We'll see. Guys, be safe out there.
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