JACOB M HOFF & SAMANTHA WYNN GREENSTONE

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Speaker 2 I am so excited to tell you guys about my guests today because I'm a huge fan and I absolutely adore them. I follow their amazing work on social media.
They are fun, they are funny, they are amazing.

Speaker 2 They're actors. They're artists.
And here's the different thing about them. They're married.
They are in love. They've been together for six years.
They literally just got married. And Jacob is gay.

Speaker 2 Samantha is not. And they get a lot of questions, a lot of backlash about it.
They're super, super open talking about their incredible friendship, incredible relationship.

Speaker 2 Jacob has millions of followers on TikTok. He's super fun, super witty, super smart.

Speaker 2 And they're here talk about all of it with us: breaking rules, breaking stereotypes, and proving that, you know what, love has no boundaries, it has no rules.

Speaker 2 It's really all about how you feel about each other at the end of the day.

Speaker 2 So, I really hope you guys enjoy this amazing episode with these two adorable, adorable, fabulous people with incredibly great energy: Jacob M. Hoff and Samantha Wynne Greenstone.

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Speaker 2 DM me, I'll hook you up or send a message, text, WhatsApp to 310-692-0578 and start the year monetizing your content big time on Lightspeed VT. Samantha Jacob, welcome to Kettle Naluz.

Speaker 3 Thank you. First joke to be here.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 I don't even have words. You know, I'm so excited.
It's such an honor. I was saying before I got started, I'm a fan.
I'm a huge fan of your work. And mostly, I'm a fan of your vibe.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 I love you. You guys have the best energy.
You too. Thank you.

Speaker 4 Honestly, we saw that right away. We were like, okay, she's the right person to sit down with.

Speaker 2 I feel very honored because I'm sure a lot of people are going to try to invite you guys and because your story is so rich.

Speaker 2 So I want to pack up as much information as we possibly can because, you know, let's do this fast and furious in 45 minutes. I know, Jacob, you have a huge, massive audience on social media.

Speaker 2 It's adorable how you tell people to follow some answers, follow some answer more

Speaker 2 because I hope hope the whole world finds out about her. But for people that don't know you guys, so let's rewind the story and then we'll get to the wedding and everything else.

Speaker 2 You guys meet together for six years, right? A long time. You just eight, almost eight.
Yeah, almost eight. Almost eight.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Holy cow.

Speaker 2 I know. This is like long term.
I know.

Speaker 2 And for people that don't know,

Speaker 2 tell us like in a nutshell, how did you meet? And, you know, how did you decide? Okay, let's be a couple. We love and adore each other.
Yeah. Do you want to start? Sure.

Speaker 3 Well, so it was 2015. It was the Monday after Thanksgiving.
And I was in LA most of the time.

Speaker 3 Like I wasn't, I hadn't fully lived in LA or fully moved. And I was.

Speaker 2 Okay, so where are you from?

Speaker 3 I'm from San Diego.

Speaker 2 Oh, okay.

Speaker 3 So I was bopping between contracts, kind of going, like traveling to Northern California, wherever a theater contract would take me. But there was an audition happening the Monday after Thanksgiving.

Speaker 3 I was exhausted. I was like, I don't want to drive down to San Diego and do this audition because I know how their auditions are.
They take all day.

Speaker 3 It's like one of those places where you audition and then they do the callbacks on the same day, which is kind of unheard of in the theater industry.

Speaker 3 It's usually like you audition, maybe you get a callback days later. And so I was just like not feeling it.
But then something told me to go.

Speaker 3 And I would, or I would regret it. Like, I wasn't going to go.
And then at the last minute, just my gut was like, just, just go.

Speaker 3 And so I drove down and I sang and ended up getting a callback. Then they make the cuts and, you know, they keep the people for the callbacks.
So I was there all day.

Speaker 3 And then I go in for the role of Fruma Sarah. This is for Fiddler on the Roof, by the way.

Speaker 4 Oh, okay. Do you know Fiddler on the Roof? Yeah, of course.
Okay, so Fruma Sarah is the crazy witch in the dream.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 4 yeah so uh i'll let jacob take the story from here because this is where he so i'm sitting in the lobby and they're they bring the people in who are doing frumisera and it's like quiet and there's like all that tension for you know

Speaker 4 an audition that there goes on and all of a sudden there's just this like

Speaker 4 through the walls and i'm like what the hell was that because that was like a person

Speaker 4 that person has balls even though that's women in there, that person has gohonas to make that sort of noise in a place like that. And I was like, whoever that is is an immaculate person.

Speaker 2 So it didn't scare you away. On the contrary, you were attracted to.

Speaker 4 Oh, I was immediately like, wow, because, you know, everybody's trying to put on their best or their airs and be something else. And the whole point is to just be like.
crazy.

Speaker 3 And it literally says in the script, she screams. So that was my version of the scream.
And no one was screaming.

Speaker 4 No, there was no.

Speaker 3 And I was like, if I'm going to get this, it's because I'm going to scream.

Speaker 2 So you mad at her. Yes.

Speaker 4 They all come out of the room. And I know who it is.
I mean, there's multiple people, but I just said that's the person who made that cackle.

Speaker 4 And I was like, if they don't give you that part, they're crazy because that was something.

Speaker 3 And then like later that week, like they gave us the offers and Jacob ended up booking it too.

Speaker 2 Oh, wow.

Speaker 3 And it didn't start rehearsals until the beginning of January. So we didn't have any communication until then.
And then the first rehearsal, we're singing through the score.

Speaker 3 They're teaching you the parts of the music. And then there's a break.
And I'm sitting in the lobby. And I'm like very into water.
So I had these two giant like water bottles.

Speaker 3 And Jacob approached me and started talking to me about my water because he just

Speaker 4 I believe in like clean drinking water. And yeah, it was just like, but immediately it's like, okay, this is something more than anybody else I've ever met.

Speaker 4 And it's an immediate like, we just want to be together all the time. And so this weird, this place where we were doing the show, you live on a resort for

Speaker 4 nice. Yeah.
So you really, you know, connect with the people who are living there. And we were both living there.
And so we would hang out every single day. And it would go till 4 a.m.

Speaker 4 And I would leave and it would be this kind of weird thing where it's like, I'm leaving leaving now, but it felt like I didn't want to.

Speaker 2 And yeah, it was like this. So it was like the universe.
It was something magical. But now, okay, so then the story complicates for people who don't know you, who are not you.
Right.

Speaker 2 Because you're gay. You're an openly gay man and you're not.
Right.

Speaker 2 So did it start like, did you guys think we're going to be best friends or did you immediately like feel more than that?

Speaker 4 I immediately felt confusion. I very distinctly remember maybe like the second or third time we hung out, we went to a restaurant.

Speaker 4 And I remember picking Samantha up and like being like, this is weird. This feels like a date.

Speaker 3 And then he paid, like he paid for my food and everything.

Speaker 2 I'm like, why is he paying for my food?

Speaker 4 And it was like this weird thing where I was like, oh, this is like weirdly kind of nice. Like I like doing this with this person, but I'm confused because this is a woman.
Right.

Speaker 4 And this just isn't a feeling I've had before.

Speaker 4 And yeah, it was, it was kind of a strange moment. But then I kind of packed that away and was like, oh no, we're friends.
And that we went about our relationship as friends.

Speaker 4 Yeah, for literally 18 months.

Speaker 3 Oh, wow. But it was very confusing for me because I was feeling.

Speaker 2 Were you, were you feeling attracted to him?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, I mean, aside from just thinking that he's handsome, but

Speaker 3 his soul was like,

Speaker 3 I felt this just thing that I could not explain because I've had many gay friends in my life and never felt the way with them that I felt with Jacob.

Speaker 3 It really kind of, now that I know what it is, the best way I can describe it is you're reuniting with someone you've known in the past. I'm very into energy like you too.

Speaker 3 So his energy felt familiar and safe, but I just didn't know where to place it because, and it was confusing because I knew it was gay.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 it was definitely a confusing process,

Speaker 4 but at the same time, it was like very practical. It was just like this relationship is working the way it's going.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 4 there was kind of this element of like, maybe there is a more of a feeling here.

Speaker 4 But it was, it was hard to kind of take the leap and explore it because A, I didn't want to ruin anything and be like, oh, we tried it.

Speaker 4 And now it's awkward because I can't be in a relationship with a woman. And it was

Speaker 4 scary to mess that up.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I can't. So, okay, so I'm sure a lot of people out there, and I know you get these questions all the time on social media.
So, how did you guys figure out, okay, let's take the leap?

Speaker 2 Let's be a couple. Okay, so I know most, because same, I have a lot of gay friends, and I love and adore them.
I never felt this connection, right? But I just love them as like my best friend.

Speaker 3 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 But for you guys, obviously, it was so much more.

Speaker 2 You must have gotten to a point that we were like, okay, we want to be more than just friends. Right.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 I mean, eventually I was just like,

Speaker 3 he had shown up for me for the next 18 months of our lives. Like, he was always my opening night date to whatever show we did.
Or if I had an extra ticket to something, it went to Jacob.

Speaker 3 Like, he was the first person I thought of and I spent any free time with.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 then I was doing a show in San Diego and I was living with a friend and

Speaker 3 they had gone to an energy healer and they came back and was and they were like, oh my gosh, Sam, you have to go see this energy healer because I just feel like

Speaker 3 the way that she delivered. her message to me just like really registered with my soul.
And this is someone who I also believe is like sensitive to energy and spiritual.

Speaker 3 So I was like, I saw a pep in their step. And so I was like, okay, I got to go and do this.
And so I went to this store, which is like in Little Italy, San Diego.

Speaker 3 And it's, it's kind of a hodgepodge of everything. Like you walk in and there's like, they're trying to sell you crystals and bracelets.
They got a bracelet for everything.

Speaker 3 You know, and then they have like San Diego ball caps. Like it's a little kiosky, too.

Speaker 2 It's legit.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 I mean, whatever works. Yeah.
I mean,

Speaker 3 really, like, if I had walked into this place on my own without a recommendation, I would have been like, this is a sham.

Speaker 3 And maybe it is a sham. But I walk in, I talk to this woman and she's just kind of like assessing my life.
And she's like, do you have anyone? Like, are you seeing anyone? And I was like,

Speaker 3 well, I have this connection with my best friend and I just don't know what it is. And she like stopped me right there.
And she's like, look where your hand is. I guess it was like right here.

Speaker 3 And she's like, your hand is right where your umbilical cord is. So what I'm sensing is that you two share a spiritual umbilical cord.

Speaker 2 Oh, wow.

Speaker 3 And that.

Speaker 2 And that's how you guys feel. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 I feel like it's like written in the stars. And I guess to explain our energy is like, kind of like we're like attached by a cord that that really kind of registered.

Speaker 2 I wish everybody in the world met a person like that. That they feel.
Truly. Yeah.
Right. Cause I, I mean, I can see it.
When I see both of you together, it's just like always so magical. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 3 Thank you. And I feel like that's what we're trying to like encourage people to do is look for like the person that makes you feel this way.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 4 Or don't look. Just be, just feel your

Speaker 4 real relationships out and they, this will guide you. But when people are out there trying to find somebody, it's harder to do that.

Speaker 2 No, I agree. I think sometimes it's,

Speaker 2 at least in my opinion, these things have to be organic. You can't push it.
You can't force it.

Speaker 2 But again, in your case, I guess because most people, right, we grow up with all the stereotypes, what a relationship should be like, what a couple

Speaker 2 should look like. If you're gay, you like this.
If you're not gay,

Speaker 2 once you guys decided to be a couple.

Speaker 2 I mean, everybody around you must have been like, so people ask you if you're bi or you're not gay.

Speaker 2 You get most of the criticism, right, Jake?

Speaker 2 Right. Because you're

Speaker 2 a gay man.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I think there's a couple things. A lot of people, I think within the queer community, some people get defensive because I think any marginalized community,

Speaker 4 when you experience hatred or you experience anything, you become defensive of, no, this is how I feel. And that's understandable.

Speaker 4 And I think a lot of queer people are saying to me or looking at me and going, well, how can you be gay?

Speaker 2 Because it sounds like you can change your feelings and suddenly be attracted to women if you're with a woman and they think we're like pushing this conversion narrative and giving power to the being gay is a choice right movement and like not at all I don't think you're at least I've never seen from all the 10 millions of videos you guys put out there I don't think I've ever seen you try to convince somebody to live their lives the way you do.

Speaker 2 Right. Yeah.
Right. You're literally talking about your own personal experience.
You're not saying like you should be like me. Yeah.

Speaker 4 I mean, there's people who reach out to us and say, hey, I have a connection with a gay friend. And we tell them, this may not be what we have.
This is, we have something unique.

Speaker 4 And don't try to, please don't try to push yourself on a gay person.

Speaker 2 Right. I mean, there's nothing more awkward.
Annoying. Oh, annoying.

Speaker 4 Oh, God. Yeah.
It's like, this has to be a really.

Speaker 2 Okay, so now we know you didn't push yourself on a gay person. no

Speaker 4 seriously she really didn't lose her joke no it was there was so much tension of like

Speaker 3 don't like screw this thing up we both were like don't screw this thing up because oh my god like you didn't want to lose the friendship yeah in fact like we'd had sleepovers a few times before and we'd slept in the same bed and like where other of my gay friends when i've slept in the bed with them we would be like oh cute we're spooning or like let's go watch this yeah jacob and i would be like oh my god

Speaker 3 the other direction yeah like don't touch each other's foot by accident yeah but like if we accidentally would touch each other's foot it'd be like

Speaker 2 we were being extra respectful and careful yeah yeah

Speaker 3 yeah it was just so it took you it was a journey to it was a huge journey to decide like we're gonna be a couple well yeah and after it was it wasn't until i went to the energy healer and she gave me this thing where i was like okay like i have to tell jacob about it now right i was like jacob do you i texted him and i was like that same night because i was just like i can't live with this any longer.

Speaker 3 Like, I will regret the rest of my life, regardless of what the answer is, not at least trying if I don't tell him now.

Speaker 3 And so I texted him and I was like, do you ever feel more for me than just a friend?

Speaker 3 And it was like, I've never done anything like that before. Like, I never would dare with anyone.

Speaker 2 But I think because that's very brave. It takes a lot.
Because imagine if he said, like,

Speaker 2 no, you're crazy. Right.

Speaker 3 And I'm a little like, as, as, like, you know, as like

Speaker 3 futuristic and progressive as we are, I'm a little old-fashioned in the sense where I'm like, I want to be courted.

Speaker 2 And I think everybody does, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's kind of like you want to be loved back.

Speaker 3 Exactly.

Speaker 2 It doesn't matter by who it is, but it has to be mutual, right?

Speaker 3 So like the thought of me making the first move was like, I was like, no way. Like he must make that.
But I just couldn't live with it any longer.

Speaker 3 And I just had to at least like throw it out there after I heard the energy healer say this. And so I texted him and asked him if he had any feelings more than a friend for me.

Speaker 4 And his response was, what do you mean?

Speaker 2 I'm just like,

Speaker 2 that's what did I do?

Speaker 4 Well, because it really, that moment was,

Speaker 4 I say there were two feelings that happened. There was a lot of confusion and anxiety.
because now I'm having to confront this

Speaker 2 out in the open.

Speaker 4 And there was also like, yeah, I do. And I, and this is something I've been waiting for and kind of wanting to say myself, but didn't have the words or the ability to do so or the courage to do so.

Speaker 4 And here comes this cackling witch who is able to just have the balls to say things.

Speaker 4 And it was intense. And it was, yeah, it, so there was, there was a lot of turmoil.
But I eventually, after what saying, what do you mean?

Speaker 4 Uh, a couple minutes later, said, of course, I feel more for you, and I'm willing to try something here.

Speaker 3 And my soul had already left my body at that point when he was like, What do you mean? So I'm like floating around.

Speaker 3 And then when he said, Of course, I do, it was like it literally, I felt like I saw, I mean, like heaven, or or, you know, it just was like unicorns, magic, stars dancing in front of me.

Speaker 3 It felt like the universe was giving us this high five. It was like, Yes, you found each other.

Speaker 2 At the end of a movie, like

Speaker 3 the ending music should chime in.

Speaker 2 And so you said,

Speaker 2 let's try something. You guys didn't know.
You didn't know you were going to end up getting married years later.

Speaker 2 You're like, let's try. So

Speaker 2 you, you, so how do you try? Should be a coin or not.

Speaker 4 You try and bang.

Speaker 2 Did it work?

Speaker 4 It worked immediately. And that was like, okay, like that was

Speaker 4 the telling thing, honestly. It was, there was a lot of fear in me that it wasn't gonna work, and that I mean to be explicit, that I wasn't going to be able to get hard, right?

Speaker 2 Right, and I'm sure that's because that's what a lot of people are thinking.

Speaker 2 Because when you say I'm gay, and you and you're very open about it on social media, which I person, that's my style, yeah, I think it's the best we can be.

Speaker 2 It's like you have to be yourself, you have to. And the more open and real you are, I think it's the better.

Speaker 2 The best, it's better for our personal lives, it's better for work, for everything we do, right? And you talk about it all the time, yeah. But of course, if you're gay, you're attracted to men.
Right.

Speaker 2 Yes. Right.
As gorgeous, and fabulous, and beautiful, and adorable. Now you're in person.
I'm like, you're a little doll.

Speaker 2 Oh, my gosh.

Speaker 2 You're so beautiful. You are too.

Speaker 2 Thank you. But

Speaker 2 I'm sure you were wondering, and a lot of people that follow your work and everything were asked, are wondering, how did you deal with that, right? Yeah.

Speaker 4 It was a really long pro. Like, what you see now is

Speaker 4 years of psychological work and going to therapy and even the first few years of our relationship,

Speaker 4 that was tumultuous.

Speaker 4 There was a period of a honeymoon stage where we were together and it was blissful and wonderful, but there were a few years where we were in continued confusion and distress and figuring this thing out and resolving on it was really difficult.

Speaker 4 And it was, we never, I've never strayed from our relationship. We've been monogamous the entire time.

Speaker 2 So it's not like, and forgive me if you don't want to ask, you don't have to.

Speaker 2 So it's not like you're married, because I think a lot of people are going to ask when they listen to the podcast, and I don't know if they ask you on social media.

Speaker 2 Oh, so you're married to Samantha, but do you go out with men because you're gay?

Speaker 4 Right. They absolutely not.
And that's, that's shocking to people.

Speaker 4 And they think, oh, I must be suppressing my queer feelings if I'm not going out there and acting on them, which is completely not the case.

Speaker 4 The thing that suppresses it is not being able to verbalize it. And so eventually, what, because I was still having this blockade of talking about it this way, and therapy helped.

Speaker 4 And the most helpful thing was we eventually got to this point where we said, we need to go to a couples therapist and say, we need to talk to somebody about this dynamic. It's not represented at all.

Speaker 2 Right. You can't think of a character on television.

Speaker 4 If there's a character, it's Will and Grace.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that's what we're trying to do because it's like, if there's, okay, there's a couple characters, Cabaret,

Speaker 4 Sally Bowles, and a Cliff.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. I never would have remembered that one.
Right.

Speaker 4 But so they have this dynamic. It ends in tragedy.
They split up. Sally gets.

Speaker 2 Will and Grace, they weren't really. They weren't a couple.
Exactly. They were bestie.
Right. And everybody has a bestie, gay friend.

Speaker 4 Exactly. And that's, that's, a lot of people say, oh, you guys are Will and Grace.
And we're like, we're not. No.
And so there's really nothing.

Speaker 4 And to show that that's the only thing people have to draw from shows that this isn't a thing. And so.

Speaker 3 And it was very, so we didn't have like any role model or

Speaker 3 any guidance to think that this sort of relationship could work. We were kind of walking around being like,

Speaker 3 is this like, is this crazy? Are we freaked? Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's what I was going to mention.

Speaker 2 You, and, and I really admired this about you guys.

Speaker 2 Obviously, you have very strong personalities to make this decision on your own because i can only imagine the peer pressure or comments i don't know how your family's reacted or friends or everything you really got to be strong about who you are and what you want because i think a lot of people in your situation maybe wouldn't even have pursued it because oh what is everybody else going to say yeah yeah oh yeah and we eventually we went to this counselor this couple's counselor and she's talking to us and we tell her our dynamic fully.

Speaker 4 And she's like shocked. And she goes, Now, this is weird because I'm married to a woman and she's the only woman I've ever been attracted to.
I feel I'm straight, but I'm just married to this woman.

Speaker 2 The other side of the coin. Yeah.

Speaker 4 And it was like a moment where it was like, oh my God, somebody else feels this way. And not only that, she's a couples counselor, knows how to talk about it.
And her mind is blown.

Speaker 4 And we're like, wait a minute, we're not alone.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 4 And that was where we really made a turning point in how we felt. And I think in our comfort in our relationship.

Speaker 3 And it wasn't even until a few years ago when a friend of ours was like, you know.

Speaker 3 And we started talking about like the binary. Our friend was like, your relationship is kind of non-binary in a way.
And I was like, okay.

Speaker 2 And I like took that to heart.

Speaker 3 I guess because it kind of transcends

Speaker 3 gender and labels in that way. But I didn't take it.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Like, I'm not sure, right? Because I'm not an expert.
But you're still like a girly girl. Exactly.
You're a woman. You're not a lesbian.
Right.

Speaker 2 You're not a them, right? Using the pronouns.

Speaker 2 You're like Samantha,

Speaker 2 the girl. Yeah.
And you're Jacob. And you still say it to this day.
Like, I'm gay and

Speaker 2 now it was the fiancé. Now it's the wife.

Speaker 4 Right. And I think of myself as a masculine guy.
Like, I don't think of myself as a queeny gay dude. I'm very, I, I, and I like the idea of people having whatever they want to feel like.

Speaker 4 If you want, if you're masculine, be masculine, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm attracted to men.

Speaker 3 And his identity is so important to him because he was not a it took him forever to even just feel safe just saying to the world, I am gay, right? His upbringing, with...

Speaker 2 Where are you coming from?

Speaker 4 I'm from Olympia, Washington.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Is your family there?

Speaker 4 My family, some of them live in Washington still. Some of them live in Nevada.
Okay. And

Speaker 4 it was a conservative upbringing. And it was...

Speaker 4 And the interesting thing is through all of this, they've been very accepting. They've been the most accepting.

Speaker 2 Wow, that's great.

Speaker 4 The people that we have the hardest time convincing are the woke people or the liberal people.

Speaker 2 Why would you try to convince anybody? Yeah. Like, why do you care?

Speaker 4 Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 3 But it's funny because some of the people who like go to bat for us in the commons are like conservative women who are like fighting with people who are like, you are harming the queer community.

Speaker 3 We're like, don't you understand the work you've done for the queer community is now.

Speaker 2 Let me tell you, Samantha, you guys might think I'm crazy, right? Because of course nowadays, social media, there's always the trolls, the craziest.

Speaker 2 I think they're the ones that need the most love

Speaker 2 because they're the ones that are unhappy with their own lives.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and it's really sad if you

Speaker 3 just want to give them more love.

Speaker 2 Yeah, like, why do you care? Like, if somebody makes a nasty comment or something, or if they don't agree, they're not involved in your lives. Right.
They're happy. They have no idea.
Exactly.

Speaker 2 Like, whatever.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Like I say, it's like when they're judging that, they're judging the one-minute slice that we're giving them in this video.
And we get it too, because the nature of social media is sensational.

Speaker 4 We have to start our videos with, I'm Samantha, I'm marrying a gay man, or I'm gay and I'm marrying a woman. And that, it's obnoxious.

Speaker 4 And to people who watch us, we're like, they're like, why do you keep having to say that?

Speaker 3 It's the package. It's how you reach more people.

Speaker 4 Of course. Because you know this.
Every video doesn't just go to your followers. It goes to everybody.

Speaker 4 And for the first time you're seeing this, you have to know right off the bat what you're getting.

Speaker 2 Yeah. No, and I remember a long time ago, you actually did a video about it.

Speaker 2 I wasn't even doing TikTok because I don't know how to, I have no time. And you said, this is one of the things that you have to do.

Speaker 2 Like pick like something strong about your personality and your lifestyle and you put it out there. And you like, we're going to talk about your top five list, of course.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 And you talk in your case, you're like, I get angry and I'm excited. So you put it out.
And I said, yeah, but it's true. You got to repeat, repeat, repeat the message.
That's how you draw an audience.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's just like little tweaks, little things, and then it,

Speaker 4 you know, becomes better or, yeah, it reaches more people.

Speaker 3 And it's kind of like your whole like unedited, unfiltered thing.

Speaker 3 I think when you lead with authenticity and you just put everything out there, some people are going to be like, wait a minute, this must be scripted.

Speaker 3 I think we're conditioned because there is so much scripted stuff that people want to look for. Yeah.
Where's the shtick in this?

Speaker 3 Yeah, there's a shtick, but like like, it's still our real life. We just lead with humor and happiness and openness.
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We love that.

Speaker 2 I think everything you do, whether it's like you said about my work, right?

Speaker 2 Personal life or work, whatever it is, there's always going to be people that doubt you. Oh, yeah.
People are going to be jealous of you.

Speaker 2 Like if you have millions of followers, some people are going to follow you because they love you. Some people are going to follow you because they want to criticize you.
They want to trash you.

Speaker 2 They want to take it away from you. Same for me.
When I started doing, I started doing the podcast four years ago. I was in a super nasty, very abusive marriage for 15 years.

Speaker 2 Really, really crappy. And the podcast, I started venting about it, you know, being back in the horrible world of dating relationships.
And I was like, I'm going to be organic. That's me.

Speaker 2 You know, I don't know how to be any other way. And I really put my stories out there a lot.
And I get a ton of backlash for it. Right.

Speaker 2 Because I open up too much and why do you do this and why do you do that?

Speaker 2 Even like platforms that are like, oh, if you package this way, if you and I sticking to my style, that's where I'm getting to where I am.

Speaker 2 Because like we were saying, my audience likes that I'm very honest.

Speaker 2 And I think it's the same with you guys when you tell your story. You're just really being yourselves.
You're not trying to convince anybody to do the same or be the same.

Speaker 3 No, and I don't want people who don't like, people we want in our corner are the people who naturally just see it. And if they don't see it and you want to criticize, that's fine.

Speaker 3 I'm never going to please you anyway. And also, I don't want your energy around me.
I just want

Speaker 2 the love around us.

Speaker 3 And the right people always find you.

Speaker 2 Like, I find you. I like it.
Exactly. Finally.

Speaker 2 I know. I finally.

Speaker 2 But before we talk about your work and we run out of time, finalizing the relationship, you went to the, and I like that you said that, that it wasn't like all smooth sailing, right? Right.

Speaker 2 Where you went through, because like most relationships, right? It takes a lot to build it up. Yeah.
So you went to the

Speaker 2 couple's therapy and she related. And then you guys

Speaker 2 really became a couple. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah. I'm, yeah.
I mean, we have been dating for a few years, but that brought us to that place of security a lot more.

Speaker 4 I mean, a lot of the insecurities that we were facing and weren't able to verbalize came about. And we were able, we found other friends that have this dynamic too because of that.

Speaker 3 And people reaching out to us that we don't even know that are like, oh my gosh, I thought that I was alone. I'm in this mixed orientation relationship.
Now we have this title, this term for it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And oh, go ahead. No, go ahead.
And as we are seeing, we're seeing that as we're sharing. There are more people who have this.
And it's just kind of like no one's talking about it.

Speaker 3 And that's inspiring us to continue to talk about it because it's not like we're saying this is a new age type of relationship. It's we're saying these types of relationships exist.

Speaker 3 And maybe if we stop focusing on the label so much and the check boxes and you just focus on the energy and the connection you have with someone, that's really love is love in

Speaker 2 simple purist terms. You nailed it.

Speaker 2 I think at the end of the day, it's all about love and who you love. And I think you just did a video about that a few days ago, right? You said, oh, people asked me, why did I get married?

Speaker 4 And you said, I love love her yeah yeah exactly it's that simple it's the we share a life together we've built a life for eight years our her family is my family now my family likes him more than they like me

Speaker 2 but you can see yeah and my mom feels she has a daughter and so many things that just what happen when your lives connect and combine that way i am so happy that both your families are supportive yeah thank goodness amazing yeah because I think that's crucial, right?

Speaker 2 It's one of the most important parts. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah. And I think this is a really good bridge between the people who are still having a hard time accepting queer people

Speaker 4 and a queer lifestyle or an understanding a queer

Speaker 4 brain. Because I think a lot of people who are conservative or have an issue with this and is they understand our relationship because it's a classic relationship.

Speaker 4 It's a man and a woman on the outside. But because I can verbalize, this is my attraction, I think they understand that.
And

Speaker 4 I think it's going to unite the two, which is what we want, is straight people in the queer community to get along and come together. And I think that this dynamic is literally like...

Speaker 4 bridging those two things. I love that.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And to me, it feels like I think that's why there are some voices in the queer community or in any community that are that feel like they need to shout from the rooftops, No, it's this.

Speaker 3 Because instead of just like talking about it and explaining things in practical terms, I think people just feel like they have to yell at each other and nothing's getting done, no progress is getting made because it's yell, yell, yell, yell, yell.

Speaker 3 And if we can just like sit down and just be like, this is who I am, this is why I feel this way, and just be practical about it without judgment, I think that is the key to progress in all types of relationships, dynamics, identifications.

Speaker 2 1 million percent. I think, and this is something that I'm never going to understand.
Why do people decide like that relationships have to be this box?

Speaker 2 You know, like if you get married, it has to be a woman and a guy. Or if you, if you're gay, you have to be this and that.
And if you're not, you know, but it isn't, right?

Speaker 2 Because each person has completely different feelings, and you never know who you're going to love, who you're going to find. Like you said, the connection.

Speaker 2 I don't think it's just physical connection.

Speaker 2 obviously it's mental it's spiritual it's so much more than that and like you just you guys just said love is love yeah it doesn't really matter anything else matters right all it matters is how you feel and if you guys are happy exactly exactly and it's it's such a different feeling than that lustful

Speaker 4 thing. It's you know, I say, I joke and say, I'm not looking at her being like that ass and them titties.
And, you know, it's, it's not about that.

Speaker 4 I look at her and it's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. It's the most beautiful being.

Speaker 3 And I feel that way when he looks at me. Yeah.
I feel my most beautiful, amazing self.

Speaker 3 In fact, I feel like since we've been together, I've just evolved into my most happy, authentic version of myself. I feel just safe being Samantha.

Speaker 2 That's amazing.

Speaker 4 But nothing's ever going to change the fact that I'm attracted to men. It's just, that's just

Speaker 2 your nature. And you must get hit by men all the time, right?

Speaker 2 I would guess because you know, there's always the funny thing that, like, I don't know, but I would think like they see, oh, I'm gay and I'm married to her.

Speaker 2 I would think a lot of guys are like, huh, let me see if I can get him.

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah. I don't know.
I mean, I honestly don't experience a lot of that. I mean, every once in a while, we experience something, you know, weird energy.

Speaker 4 Yeah, or we experienced something at a party earlier.

Speaker 3 That person gave us weird energy.

Speaker 4 Yeah, you can tell, but it's like, it's so yucky because you're like, I don't want anybody invading my relationship or trying to interfere with what we have going on i love we don't give like the the energy i think we give when we're in social situations is

Speaker 3 No, like, we are not approachable in that way. We're approachable in other ways.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 4 There's, there's a clear challenge.

Speaker 2 No, I can really, really see the loyalty and the connection very well. Like, even before I met you guys, like, all you have to do is look at the videos and how adorable it is.

Speaker 2 Everything you guys do and build together.

Speaker 2 Thank you. I can see that.
And I love that every single video, you're like, follow my fiancé.

Speaker 2 And now it's like, follow my wife.

Speaker 4 I'm like, it's hard to remember to say wife now.

Speaker 3 Yeah, people will yell at him. They're like, she's your wife now.

Speaker 2 And I'm thinking, every couple in the world should treat each other like that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Regardless of whether you're gay, straight, whatever you are, you should have this kind of like lawyer. Because to me, loyalty is on top of my list.
Oh, it's the number one thing.

Speaker 4 It's number one. Loyalty and honesty.
Yes.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And we, to be honest, we have never lied to each other. Yep.
Like we, even a white, a little white lie, we were like, we would rather be brutally honest to each other without being brutal.

Speaker 3 That's like our thing. Brutally honest without being brutal.

Speaker 2 Yep.

Speaker 4 And so many of these like Hollywood relationships, you see them, and they're also out for themselves and their own gain. And you see it.

Speaker 4 And then one becomes a bigger star and they drop the other person. It's like, what is, what is going on here?

Speaker 4 here like why are you not support you're stronger together i mean you all of these power couples they're stronger together and it's like why is this ruthlessness still existing probably usually you know relationships like that they didn't have a good foundation exactly right it's it's it's very very weak from the get-go

Speaker 2 and it's pretty obvious that you guys yeah superficial you guys build it up really solid from many years ago and i think that's why you got to this place where you are today Right.

Speaker 2 And the beauty, you guys, when did you get you? Literally just got married, right? In Boca.

Speaker 2 Two weeks ago. Yeah.
Yeah. In Boca, Raton.

Speaker 2 Why did you guys pick Boca?

Speaker 3 Well, my parents moved there a few years ago, and it's kind of become this like happy place that my family congregates during Thanksgiving.

Speaker 3 And we originally were like, well, we wanted kind of like old Hollywood vibes and we're like checking out spots in Beverly Hills.

Speaker 3 But we were like, I don't don't know, this just kind of feels like too noisy. We just kind of want like a more quiet, intimate, easy thing.

Speaker 4 Yeah. And South Florida is the original Hollywood because all those people who came over here from New York and built film studios would vacation in Florida back in the 20s or the early 1900s.

Speaker 4 So they built Hollywood to look like South Florida. Like the Beverly Hills Hotel looks like one of those Florida places.

Speaker 2 Like the Boca Raton.

Speaker 3 Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Speaker 2 I lived there for a really long time.

Speaker 2 You did?

Speaker 3 In Boca Raton?

Speaker 2 Well, I met my husband. Now he passed away.

Speaker 2 The one I told you. But I met him in Boca.
He lived in Boca. Wow.
His company's the headquarters were in Far Lauderdale.

Speaker 2 So we would go back and forth between the West Coast and East Coast a lot, but we were based in

Speaker 2 Miami, in Boca, because of his work. So for 15 years, you know, I'd go back and forth.

Speaker 4 Wow. It's a gorgeous area.

Speaker 2 My sister lives there. You know, I'm a California girl.
I love LA. I totally live here.
Yeah. But I like going there to visit.
Yeah. I love the vibe to visit for a few days.

Speaker 4 It's sleepy. It's yeah, really.

Speaker 2 But you guys are not going on a honeymoon?

Speaker 4 No, we haven't planned one yet. I mean, the boca was like our home.

Speaker 3 It kind of was like a mini book. And we went to Guatemala a few months ago, Jacob.

Speaker 2 I saw it on your social media.

Speaker 3 Because Jacob pissed off the Guatemalan government. Yes.

Speaker 4 I said they were the number six country with the most kidnappings.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God.

Speaker 3 So they like invited us out to Providence. Oh, they invited you.

Speaker 4 Oh, yeah. Took us all over the country.

Speaker 2 We met the president. Okay, can you make like the top shittiest restaurants in Beverly Hills and pick the most expensive ones? Oh, yeah.
And see if they invite us there for dinner. Literally, I know.

Speaker 2 I know.

Speaker 4 The worst luxury car brands.

Speaker 2 We learned. Worst service.

Speaker 3 Yeah. I was like, start talking shit about the Maldives.

Speaker 2 Like, I know. But let's explain to people what you do.
Because you started this top five.

Speaker 4 It's top five right yeah and it's hilarious some are serious some are fun some are funny and you do it like super fast and you grew this huge audience how did you come up with that you know i was just pretty resolute on doing tick tock and being like we're gonna this is blowing people up it's making them popular we need this and i was doing whatever for six months like i like whatever like he would i would come home one day and then he would be like,

Speaker 3 he, like, had bought a blonde wig off Amazon and put a beard on the water.

Speaker 4 I was like this surfer character, and my whole thing was just like watching videos and being like, whoa, dude, this is crazy.

Speaker 2 And I was like, okay.

Speaker 2 Whatever you want, honey.

Speaker 4 You know, you start with big and you just start paring down and it eventually just comes back to who you are.

Speaker 3 And his first list he made was, we were actually on vacation in Boca Roto.

Speaker 4 No, the first one was the orphan

Speaker 3 musical theater.

Speaker 4 But that wasn't on vacation. That was here.
That was here?

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So the top five music or orphans of musical theater.

Speaker 4 Yeah. Cause I was just like, oh, I love, we love musicals.
Like, let's do a musical theater list. And I had been seeing them on there.
Like a few people had done them.

Speaker 4 And I was like, this is an interesting concept because the way the algorithm works, you want to watch videos to the end. That's the biggest thing to make a video successful.

Speaker 4 And I was like, well, if they're waiting to get to number one, that makes them watch the whole video. Uh-huh.
And so

Speaker 4 very clever. Yeah, it was just, it was like,

Speaker 4 I remember that thought coming and being like, this could be a million dollar idea. And that I did it and it did okay.
And then like a few weeks later, it kept getting views.

Speaker 4 And I was like, huh, that kind of worked. And then we were on vacation and I started doing more of them.
And then they were like real. I mean, for me, it was like.
thousands of views.

Speaker 4 I was like, oh my God, I'm getting out of the hundreds of views, jail and into.

Speaker 2 For me. Yeah, I'm in TikTok jail because I don't do it every day.
I, you know, I don't have time. My thing is, my Instagram is pretty decent.
It's not enormous, but it's pretty decent.

Speaker 2 So, you know, time, right?

Speaker 4 Exactly. And just over and over.

Speaker 2 You have to do it every day. Literally, literally, every day.

Speaker 3 Every day. Exactly.
And you cannot be too precious about it.

Speaker 2 I know. I see it.
Yeah.

Speaker 4 The only day I took off was our wedding, but in the last two and a half years, basically, oh my God.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And how do you come up with so many ideas?

Speaker 4 Uh, I either research them on, I mean, there's so many lists that have a lot of them I just find online and repeat.

Speaker 4 And that that's actually the funniest because it's like some of these things you're like, What? Why is this on here?

Speaker 2 I saw one the other day that I was laughing so hard. You were like the top most uh popular birthdays, and it's like, Yeah, I think four out of the five are September.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, and you were like, I don't know what, yeah, but people get buck wild in December.

Speaker 2 I love them. I mean, they're so creative.

Speaker 3 They're so creative.

Speaker 3 Or like, sometimes I'll be like focused working on something else and he'll be making a video and then he'll just say something and it just like makes me cackle so much because he's so funny.

Speaker 2 Yes. And then you get sometimes you don't, I don't know if you honestly get angry, but just like your personality.

Speaker 4 Yeah. I lean into this like frustration.
I mean, I do have. a lot of anger that lives inside of me.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 That's my

Speaker 3 it's definitely gone down since you started making these lists.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it's an out, it's a really good outlet because it's like put it into being mad at car brands instead of being mad at people or at the world or Road Rage or wherever it was coming out.

Speaker 3 But sometimes you will come up with them on your own, like the top five worst girl names. Like

Speaker 3 Amy, I just don't like that name, Amy.

Speaker 4 Those are the most clickbait. Those are the worst.
Those are like, what am I doing? Sometimes I make those and I'm like, what am I doing?

Speaker 2 no they're awesome and sometimes like you said when you you read a list that you found somewhere i think it was the top the top healthiest foods i don't know and but you actually say you're like oh uh some harvard dudes through this list so they must know what they're saying oh yeah

Speaker 2 those harvard dudes

Speaker 2 So you're very honest about it. Very, very, very real.

Speaker 4 Yeah. And like coming back to the, we were talking about your podcast being organic, unedited.
That's, I found the best method for that. Like, I used to edit them.

Speaker 4 I used to try to make them jazzier and film them better. No, no views.
The best thing is just one long take

Speaker 4 going at it.

Speaker 3 And it's kind of soul-crushing in some ways because we're so creative. And like at the beginning of our relationship, we would like make short films or like funny little shorts all the time.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so that sort of a thing, like, that's what we like thrive and love to do. But then we'll get really excited and make something creative and put it up.

Speaker 2 And people like don't really really care about it because they really just want to sit you watch you sit and talk but i think now maybe you could try that again i don't know as you become more and more famous and you grow and you're in the media and everything you could try because i know i would love that because i like his videos but i also love when you got because you have such great chemistry yeah together i would definitely come up with something you know like oh yeah some content creation that you could

Speaker 3 together you know like we used to walk around town with this mannequin. We drove like an hour and a half away to get a mannequin, and she was like a part of all of our videos.

Speaker 3 And we like gave her this character. And there was one time we took the mannequin to Caesar's Palace.

Speaker 2 Just

Speaker 3 like we had these characters, and Jacob was this character. And like, we actually got kicked out of Caesar's Palace because they were like, I made too much of a scene outside of the Caesar.

Speaker 2 You got kicked out of Caesar's Palace? Yeah. Wow.
For carrying around this mannequin.

Speaker 2 Because

Speaker 2 yeah, there was can you ever go back? I know you should do a list about them. I know they invite you back.

Speaker 4 I actually said, I think I did put them on the best hotels in Vegas because I do think they're one of the best. They are, they're gorgeous, and the shopping.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. Oh, yeah, the forum, right? Oh, my God, it's so cool.
I can't beat it. Yeah, oh my God, you guys are awesome.
How many, how many

Speaker 2 not views followers do you have on TikTok?

Speaker 4 Millions. 2.4 million now.
2.4.

Speaker 2 So if you guys have a chance to get it, it just became 2.4.

Speaker 2 2.4 holy cow yeah it's crazy if you guys are listening and you want to look at the videos the the account is exactly your name right jacob m hoff m hoff with two f's yep guys as in frank yep and on social media it's the same yep for you and samantha i love your name it's very chic thank you i know i've like we've been recently like talking about like should i be changing my name no you should put her last name i know jacob hoff win greenberg i know i know It's so chic.

Speaker 2 You're gonna sound like a British lord. I know, I know.
I know.

Speaker 3 We're like, what would we do for our child? Like, would they take both of our last names? Kind of like the alliteration. Would it all Win Hoff?

Speaker 2 Like, put it alliteration of it.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It's so chic.
Wynn Greenberg, Hoff, or Hoff, Win Greenberg. I don't know.

Speaker 2 I love it. I love it.
Sounds like you're a princess. Thank you.

Speaker 3 I am a princess.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, you guys, it's such an honor talking to you.
You're very inspiring. I honestly don't care whatever the negative, because I think there's always, right? The unhappy a-holes out there.

Speaker 3 You mean you're doing something right if you're pissing someone off.

Speaker 2 Like I said, I send them love.

Speaker 2 Like, if somebody writes something nasty, I'm like, oh my God, I send you so many kisses and hugs because I'm sure you need it if you're taking time writing something bad on my page.

Speaker 2 But other than that, I think... I hope the entire world finds out about your story because at the end of the day, it's such an inspiring love story.
Yeah. Yeah, thank you.
And being real, right?

Speaker 2 Like, figuring out what matters to you. Yeah.

Speaker 4 Yeah. It's just so therapeutic to be able to just say your truth and let it be what it is and put it out there.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And it just feels like pure to like lead with pure love.
I think that's what the world needs. And I hope that everyone finds the person that makes them feel that way.

Speaker 2 Yes, that's an incredible message. And what's next for you guys? You said I can see you on a reality show or like a sitcom.

Speaker 2 yeah being made inspired by yeah by our dream is a podcast i mean that's we might have to pick your brain

Speaker 2 please now we're best is you know we're neighbor we found out we're like neighbor i know

Speaker 2 we're like a we're not gonna say here on air where we live but we're like a few blocks away from it

Speaker 3 oh that's great that's great we are making a short film a short documentary about our wedding and our relationship oh my god i love that so hopefully going to film festivals in the next couple years yeah we want to to shout out Shark Pig Studios because they're co-producing with us.

Speaker 2 Oh my God. They're amazing.

Speaker 3 They just came out to the wedding. It was amazing.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. Yeah.

Speaker 4 So all these things that will kind of get out of the sensational social media world and solidify our relationship and help people understand this is real and this is who we are in our lives.

Speaker 4 It will all help sort of the understanding grow.

Speaker 3 And eventually we want a child, a child, but then everyone's like, A one. Everyone's like, you have to give them a sibling.

Speaker 2 I think, again, that's a personal, very personal choice, right? You have to have as many as you guys think is good for you.

Speaker 2 Kids are expensive. They are.
I also have to do it. I don't have kids, but I have two dogs.
And let me tell you, they are like kids. They are like babies.

Speaker 2 They're my babies and they are very expensive. And kids are one excellent.

Speaker 2 It's like a lot of work. Yeah, totally.
But I can see you guys having a little one because you're going to be amazing parents. Just your energy is contagious.

Speaker 2 I'm insanely honored to have you here and I hope we're going to do many more. I'm sure I invite you back because I know I'm going to get like hundreds of questions.

Speaker 3 Oh my gosh, this was so fun. Anytime.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we really love it.

Speaker 2 You're amazing. It's such an honor.
Congratulations on the beautiful, beautiful marriage.

Speaker 2 Do you, other than the Instagram, the TikTok, I'm going to put the links on this episode so you guys can find them.

Speaker 2 Any other links? Anything else that you want me to tell? I think that's the main one.

Speaker 4 Yeah, our YouTube is Sam and Jacob show.

Speaker 4 And yeah, that one's growing too. We're starting to do more long form, trying to figure out the long form video thing there.

Speaker 4 So, yeah, that one.

Speaker 2 I can't, yeah, that's a fabulous idea for you too, because I can see you doing a lot of fun stuff on YouTube together. Thank you.
You're so creative. You're adorable.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 And I think the message that I always try to say is like, love has no boundaries, right? No stereotypes.

Speaker 2 I can't stand when people put people in boxes and make this is and you guys like the perfect example for that. So, guys, go look for love in any way, shape, form, person that shows up, right?

Speaker 4 Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
And don't stop yourself from loving somebody just because you, you know, feel one way or the other. If you're straight and you have a connection with a dude friend that

Speaker 4 happens to be really close, just make it happen.

Speaker 3 Love transcends. Yes.

Speaker 2 Thank you so much. It was such an honor having you guys.
You're amazing. Amazing.
Guys, you're safe out there. I know it's the holidays, a lot of people are feeling really lonely.

Speaker 2 So, if you know anybody lonely, go give them a hug, go give them a kiss, bake them a cookie. You know, spread love.

Speaker 2 I always say, like, spread love, spread love, spread love, especially during the holiday season, it can be really tough out there. Take care of yourselves.

Speaker 2 And this was a very special cat on the loose. I'm insanely happy and honored.
And your love is inspiring.

Speaker 3 Thank you.

Speaker 2 Thank you, cat. We'll see you guys very soon.
Kisses, kisses, kisses.

Speaker 2 This is a really good one for everyone that loves to play poker and everyone that is planning a trip to Las Vegas.

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