Do it for Love ft. Laura Wasser

Speaker 1 Do you ever not believe in love?

Speaker 2 I still believe in love. I just believe that there's dicks out there.

Speaker 1 I have times with Tristan. I want to fucking murder him, but my children would never know that.

Speaker 1 And that is what I think being a responsible adult is. I think you're always known for your style and your fashion.

Speaker 2 I definitely don't dress or work out to get a picture taken of me.

Speaker 1 So let's do it to get laid. Let's do it to get laid.
Let's do it to get laid. Welcome to Chloe in Wonderland.
This is the podcast for real and raw conversations that you won't want to miss. Sweet.

Speaker 1 What a pro.

Speaker 1 I know how to read.

Speaker 1 So I'm so excited to have you here. Laura Wasser, you have been, I feel like every one of my siblings, divorce lawyer lawyer or family law lawyer, and your dad.

Speaker 1 I don't know which parent your dad represented. I think it's my mom or my dad, which I don't know.

Speaker 2 I think it might have been maybe your dad with your mom and then your mom with Bruce. Oh my God.

Speaker 1 I think.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 twice.

Speaker 1 Yes, we're very interconnected, which is amazing. But not only are you the best family law attorney that there is,

Speaker 1 but I just feel like when people hear your name, you have this title, the Disso queen, which I love, any sort of queen title. But also, I just feel like people don't know enough about the softer side.

Speaker 1 The softer side of you.

Speaker 1 And I think that people just probably assume that, like, you love divorce. And I don't know, just because you fight for that.
But I know you're, I know that you're such an advocate for love. Yes.

Speaker 1 And yeah, I just feel like I want people to get to know a different side of you.

Speaker 2 Well, that's why I came. I mean, I feel like, look, you can't be a divorce attorney without having something attributed to you.
And a lot of people are like, wow, you're pit bull shark.

Speaker 2 I don't think that's how I am. I think it's more of a problem-solving gene that I have that my dad has as well.
And so we want to try to help people.

Speaker 2 By the time they come to me, they're already getting divorced. I'm not like a divorce monger.
In fact, as you know, there have been circumstances where I've said, don't get divorced.

Speaker 2 Let's see how this plays out. Let's see if we can work it.

Speaker 2 We do a lot of prenuptial agreements, which are people getting together and hopefully keeping their relationship communicative and evolving so yeah no it's not just all about divorce and hate and misery no you've been someone for me like you're always

Speaker 1 from

Speaker 2 even with Lamar like you've always been someone that's like let's try to work this out privately try to work it out before going to court and in a way you're almost like a family therapist sometimes I mean I'm not qualified to be a family therapist but my main goal is to keep people out of court so if you can work it out yourself as opposed to letting someone who you don't know, who doesn't know you, doesn't know your kids, has a very crowded court docket, lots of people trying to get their attention and get relief, wouldn't it be better if you guys worked it out?

Speaker 2 And so we've done that a lot. Yes, we've done that.

Speaker 1 I feel like for a bunch of my sisters, we've done that a lot.

Speaker 1 But I want you to sort of take me back. I know that your dad has been, he was before you,

Speaker 1 probably, I feel like... respectfully you've surpassed him oh i hope he never sees this oh my gosh he's gonna kill me but we could duke it out in the desert.
But

Speaker 1 before you, would you say you took over his law firm? Yeah. Yeah.
So before you, though, he was this incredible lawyer, had a huge name for himself, just like you do.

Speaker 1 Times were different. We didn't have social media and all of that.
But how did you get started? And I also know that your father wasn't that keen on having you join the family business.

Speaker 1 If you could sort of tell that story.

Speaker 2 So my dad, first of all I didn't want to join the family business like growing up my initials are law Laura Allison Wasser which I always thought was so lame and I was like oh god and I fought it and but anyway like when I was in my 40s I kind of embraced it and I love all monograms and everything but I didn't think I was gonna be a lawyer and I certainly did not think I was gonna be a family law attorney and then in my second year of law school I got married I was young I was 25 and then after my third year I graduated and took the bar and my husband at the time and I looked at at each other and we're like, what were we thinking?

Speaker 2 I mean, we had a great wedding. It was like 200 people at the Bel Air Hotel and 10 bridesmaids, 10 groomsmen.
I mean, I do. I love, love.

Speaker 1 I mean, I love a good wedding.

Speaker 2 It was gorgeous. But we were like, this is probably, this probably wasn't a great idea.
So I went to my dad and I was like, look, we're going to split up. He's like, no more weddings.

Speaker 2 I will not pay for another wedding. And I was like, okay.
So I've never had another wedding.

Speaker 2 But I also said, you know, I'm paying the rent on this house in Laurel Canyon and I have a dog and and I have a car payment.

Speaker 2 Can I come work for you, Dad, while I wait for my results from the bar exam and, you know, get a real job? And he's like, no, no nepotism, no nepotism.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, dad, please, I'm working for a nonprofit right now. I need help.
You know, please let me. And he's like, fine, you can work here while you wait for your results.

Speaker 2 Well, I worked there and I was really good at it and I liked it. And because I grew up.
in LA and I knew a lot of people at the time that were like working assistants desks at the agencies.

Speaker 2 They were young lawyers at the entertainment law firms, business managers, kids of people who were in the industry.

Speaker 2 I had clients. And so he was like, my partner said, if you want to stay, you can stay.

Speaker 1 And I still like.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so I worked there. They were so much harder on me than they were on anybody else.
But I really started to like it because, like I said, I like the idea of problem solving.

Speaker 2 And I can usually now, and even then a little bit, see what the pressure points were, who cared more about custody, who cared more about money, what the fears are.

Speaker 2 And it's interesting, 30 years that I've been doing this now, it doesn't matter how much money you have, and it doesn't matter how famous you are, what your occupation is.

Speaker 2 People have the same fears and anxieties. You know,

Speaker 2 who am I going to spend my summer vacation with? Are my kids going to be okay when they're at his house? He's never put them to bed or bathed them.

Speaker 2 What if she starts dating somebody else that makes more money than me and my kids fall in love with him more than me? All of these things are the concerns people have.

Speaker 2 And so you get to know those things and then you adjust them to whatever makes sense.

Speaker 2 Who's going to go to the Labor Day Company picnic with me or who's going to walk the red carpet at the Oscars with me?

Speaker 2 Whatever it is, that's your level of anxiety and trying to kind of get people through that, figure out the numbers. The law is not that complicated.

Speaker 2 So you don't have to be a rocket scientist to do what I do, but you have to kind of be able to figure out how to explain it to people and let them make decisions about what's going to make the most sense for them, as I said, without going to court, which is key.

Speaker 1 And I also think one of your strong traits is you explain things to people in

Speaker 1 English.

Speaker 1 Yes, in a way that people actually understand what you're saying and you don't overwhelm them with big words and lawyer lingo that someone's like, okay, and you just sort of say yes to say yes.

Speaker 1 And that is such an amazing attribute to have. But then also that you speak English to us.
I'm like, oh, okay, I understand that. How wasn't Stevie Wonder one of your like first big cases?

Speaker 2 He was one of my first. He was a client that was my dad's.

Speaker 2 And then he has a lot of kids. So when he, whatever one of the new ones was, my dad, I had known him since I was younger.
And he said, why don't I work with Laura? So my dad said, fine.

Speaker 2 And then there was a very big case where he had been living with somebody for a long time and they were kind of extricating. So we did that case.
And then I just started doing all of Stevie's stuff.

Speaker 2 And he's actually become a friend. Like he is a very, very dear friend.
And, but yeah, that was, again, when I started in 1994, there wasn't a 24-hour news cycle. Forget social media.

Speaker 2 There just wasn't things on the news all the time. And as I think we've discussed before, in California, divorces are public.
So the minute you file something,

Speaker 2 TMZ, which there wasn't even TMZ back then, but is all over it. It's just, it's public knowledge.

Speaker 2 So we try to do things quietly, but that is the reason why so many people know who our firm represents, whether we like it or not. Right.

Speaker 1 And I think that's the misconception.

Speaker 1 I think people, not with your firm, just in general, people think that all these celebrities are like pushing things out to the media where most of these things, people would love to go under the radar.

Speaker 1 But I don't know who TMZ has on their payroll, but somehow they find out anything and everything. Yes.
So for your divorce that you had, do you have any kids with that marriage?

Speaker 2 No, no kids.

Speaker 1 But you have two kids

Speaker 1 by two different dads. Correct.
And for, was that something that was

Speaker 1 like methodically done while you didn't get married to any of them?

Speaker 2 No, but like once you've been married once before and you've had this beautiful wedding and all that, I know I'll never look better in wedding photos than I did when I was 25.

Speaker 2 But, you know, both of the dads of both of my kids and I were kind of like, do we want to do this? Do we need this? Like, we're very committed. We're going to be committed to being co-parents.

Speaker 2 I don't know if I can promise until death to us part. I can promise I'm always going to co-parent with you.
And so we kind of left it at that.

Speaker 2 And so particularly with my older son's dad, that really worked for us. You know, we were both attorneys.
We both were from LA, had family here.

Speaker 2 And then with my younger son's dad, it wasn't calculated not to get married, but it was definitely calculated to have another kid so that Luke had a sibling. Right.
And

Speaker 2 that sibling also has an older sister. So there were really three of them and they were all five years apart.
So Alex at the time was 10, Luke was five, and then Jack was one.

Speaker 2 So that was kind of how we raised our kids. And so it worked.

Speaker 2 And, you know, how I know, and you know, I know because you do it too, that you can coexist peacefully, lovingly, respectfully with another parent that's not living in the same house with you is because we do it.

Speaker 2 Right. We have their backs.
We take care of them if things are going wrong. Everybody does birthday parties together.

Speaker 2 I mean, your family's birthday parties are a little different than my family's birthday parties, but everybody's welcome.

Speaker 2 And I think that's so important as a family to a kid to see that, to always see parents that are getting along. And I think it's important for us as moms.

Speaker 2 I mean, we have this village, like this tribe of people, women and men, who are there to kind of help us and, you know, fill in the blanks if we need it. And that's huge for us and for our kids.

Speaker 1 Don't you agree? Oh, my gosh, it's major. And I had a great example.
My mom and my dad got along really well. And even if they weren't getting along, we never knew otherwise.
Right.

Speaker 1 So, and that is what I think being a responsible adult is and protecting your children and

Speaker 2 not

Speaker 1 lying to them in any way, but having them see that you can coexist and co-parent and also not putting that on them.

Speaker 2 Right. Letting them know, like whatever feelings I might have about your dad, I love him because he's my family and he's your family.
So we're going to work this out. Yeah.
I agree completely.

Speaker 2 My parents divorced when I was 16 and they did it that way too. Super

Speaker 2 civilly.

Speaker 2 They both married other people and then my mom passed away in 2019 but they were and the morning that she died we were at her house in malibu with her husband my dad my ex who is was luke's dad and then my my at the time current boyfriend like everybody was there around her when she went and it was again another example of in those kind of clinch times the people that are important to you are there that's how it was when my dad died.

Speaker 1 I don't know if it was the day of, but the week that he was dying, he was on hospice. Bruce came to say, have a conversation with him.
It's goodbyes. I bombed it.
Yes, everyone.

Speaker 1 And it's so crazy how parallel our families are. But that's also why I think we just get each other so much with that.
I agree. An interesting story that

Speaker 1 another example of how you're such a crusader for love that I actually, I remember, of course, but I didn't think of it when I was like, oh, I'm going to sit down with you today.

Speaker 1 But either you told my producers or something like that is the story about Lamar when he was in his coma. Yes.

Speaker 1 And Lamar fell into a coma, and I was trying to get a divorce for like a year and a half or two years, something like that. And I don't remember either he wouldn't sign.

Speaker 2 He signed. He signed right before the coma.
Yes. And so we were able to get all the paperwork done.
And this is back in the day where you would actually go down to court and file paperwork.

Speaker 2 And so a lot of the people that worked at Los Angeles Superior Court kind of knew me from being around. Probably when I was was a kid.

Speaker 2 I would go with my dad, but, you know, it's the same people going in. So I had taken the paperwork down to the court a couple of days before and I was like, oh, finally, I got this done for Chloe.

Speaker 2 This is great, whatever.

Speaker 1 Even I wouldn't be able to make any medical decisions

Speaker 1 if I wasn't. married to him.

Speaker 2 So you called me and you said, oh my God, Lamar's in a coma. We need to stop the paperwork.
I'm like, stop the paperwork. It's in the, it's in the system.

Speaker 1 Yes. You're like, it's on the judge's desk, I think is what you said.

Speaker 2 So I fly down to Los Angeles Superior Court and you know me a little bit. Like back in the day, I would like try to dress up like a lawyer and wear my like little suits and whatever.

Speaker 2 But when I wasn't being a lawyer, I was wearing something usually totally different, which is what I was wearing that day.

Speaker 2 And I go down to court and I like flag the woman down and I'm like, hey, you know, you knew me. I dropped a judgment off a couple days ago and I need to pull it back.

Speaker 2 And she's like, there's no pulling it back. And I was like, no, no, no.
You don't understand. I really need to do it.
It's for Chloe Kardashian and Lamar Odom.

Speaker 2 And she's like, I don't know who that is. And I was like, okay.

Speaker 2 I go, please, please, for these people, you know, for me. And she's like, I know who you are, but I'm not doing that for you.
And then I don't even know. I was like so desperate.

Speaker 2 I go, what about for love? And she's like, for love? And I was like, yes, for love. They were in love.
She doesn't want to pull it back. She needs to take care of him.
And she's like, for love.

Speaker 2 And I don't know if she was just thought I was hilarious or she really also is a crusader for love. She goes, wait here.
And she like, I don't know where she went into the bowels of the courthouse.

Speaker 2 She got it. She brought brought it back.
It hadn't been signed. We dialed the whole thing back.
I remember like running to my car and calling you and being like, Chloe, I got it.

Speaker 1 I got the judgment back for love. We did it for love.
No, and doesn't she tell that, like, when you see her, doesn't she say that?

Speaker 2 Sometimes when I'm walking by, and again, I'm not down there that often because post-COVID, we do a lot remotely, but she'll be like, for love.

Speaker 1 Okay, lady, thank you. God bless you.
We did it for love.

Speaker 1 But that is another example that you are, you're not like, no, we're getting divorced.

Speaker 1 You're like, yes, let's do do it let's do it for love do it for love oh my gosh i love that great slogan it's almost as good as my sweatshirt that says kim is my lawyer i have the same one we all do

Speaker 1 who were some of your mentors and inspirations

Speaker 2 Both of my parents. I mean, my dad really taught me so much about not being a lawyer, being a critical thinker, you know, being somebody that was like, okay, I think there's two sides to every story.

Speaker 2 And he really, I was in debate in high school and he really taught me kind of how to argue. I was a rhetoric major when I was in college at Cal and I kind of love discourse.

Speaker 2 I love having a conversation about something and kind of talking things through. I'm sure anybody I dated would be like, yeah, it's fucking great.

Speaker 2 And so definitely my dad. And also he kind of showed me without meaning to how to run a business.

Speaker 2 I mean, I run our firm now and, you know, so many mornings, he's in the desert, but we text every morning at like 5.30 and he's like, any news? How's the firm? Whatever.

Speaker 2 And I'll tell him all of my list of complaints about whoever didn't come in that day and how hard it is to get the millennials working in the office and whatever else.

Speaker 2 And he's like, yep, you're learning important lessons. And I'm like, bro, you never had any of this kind of stuff.
We're talking about important lessons.

Speaker 2 Then my mom, who is like the consummate cheerleader, she was just the greatest, most positive, happy, upbeat, unconditional love, super cool bunny wasler.

Speaker 2 Like most of my friends from elementary school and high school are like, oh oh my God, Bunny, she raised us. Like mine was the house that everybody went to.

Speaker 2 And we would all eat coffee, ice cream, and the Hadley's Trail mix that you pick up on the way down to Palm Springs. And my parents were really young.

Speaker 2 Like mom was, I think, 21 when she had me, and my dad was like 23. That was the norm.

Speaker 2 So they knew what was going on. Like, they knew when we came home stoned, whatever.
And so they would, I constantly was busted. I constantly was grounded.
Most of my friends' parents were older.

Speaker 2 So even though we got in trouble more in my house, we would be there more because it was just kind of a fun place to hang. So, and that's on my mom.

Speaker 2 And then, you know, other mentors that I've had through the years have been other kind of female family law attorneys, both those that I knew pretty well and then those that I didn't know.

Speaker 2 You know, people who taught me, you know, if you speak slowly and you speak quietly, they have to lean forward to hear you.

Speaker 2 You don't need to get in there and slam things around and yell like a man would and cuss like a sailor, even though I tend to do that a little bit.

Speaker 1 Same.

Speaker 2 Quietly, confidently, you know, give other people the respect that they're due and then they will do the same for you. And if they don't and you're in front of a judge, the judge will be like, Mr.

Speaker 2 So-and-so,

Speaker 2 she gave you your turn, now give her hers.

Speaker 2 That's the kind of stuff, and again, that I'm trying to teach the younger attorneys at my firm. And when I speak at law schools around the state and stuff like that, I think that's really important.

Speaker 1 Oh, I love that you speak at law schools. I do.

Speaker 2 It's fun. It is fun, kind of.
I mean, sometimes I think I don't realize how old I am. And then I get there and I see these kids.

Speaker 2 No, but again, 30 years, 30 years ago, I was sitting where they're saying, that's a long time.

Speaker 2 I mean, and so, and I just think about what must be going through their heads, what their concerns are now. And what, you know, are we going to get a job? Are we going to make enough money?

Speaker 2 Like thinking about that kind of stuff. I know that there's young women, particularly, but men too, that are like, I want to be like Laura Wasser.
I want that bag. I want those shoes.
I want that car.

Speaker 2 But what goes into being that, they don't know that until you actually talk to them. They only see what's on the outside.

Speaker 1 Right. And do you think, because I know, especially back in the day, women, I don't think there were, I don't know, but I don't believe there was tons of women.

Speaker 2 It actually was a girl job. Oh, was it?

Speaker 2 It was working in-house at, you know, production studios was kind of a female job because they were had more nine to five hours and being family law attorneys was more. So there were.

Speaker 2 David Schwimmer, you know, from Friends, his mom was an amazing family law attorney. Yeah, Arlene Coleman Schwimmer.
She was a badass.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's amazing.

Speaker 2 There are a couple that are really, you know, that were really good. They did a good job.
They were tough and they were very well respected.

Speaker 2 And unlike some other careers where women were constantly beaten down,

Speaker 2 my experience was not. I was not really,

Speaker 2 I didn't have that much sexual, you know, orientation. You know, people didn't give me that hard time.
It could have been because I was my dad's daughter.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 2 Could have been that I just wasn't that hot. I don't know.

Speaker 1 But I just get that.

Speaker 1 Some people give off like, don't fuck with me energy. Yeah.
And so you're one of those people.

Speaker 1 Don't fuck with me. Right.
Cause you're very hot. I was going to say, I'm sure at these colleges, they're probably like, that's a lawyer.
Cause you, I love, though. Yes, you still are, you're always

Speaker 1 perfectly, like, you represent yourself perfectly great, but you're cool. Thank you.

Speaker 1 And you, like, that's, that's, I also think what's so like captivating about you is you still have like, you're a woman, you know?

Speaker 2 I have my moments. Yes.

Speaker 1 Hello. Psychology now.
I love it. I am all for it.
Thank you. Speaking of being a woman, I just want to talk about, well, I definitely want to get to your fashion because I love the fashion of Laura.

Speaker 1 But I want to talk about your morning rituals. Like, how do you start your morning every day?

Speaker 2 Well, my dogs wake me up. I have a pit bull and a lab.
And the pit bull, particularly Pablo, is like in my face every day.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 The last one was Raul.

Speaker 2 They're of Spanish origin. So anyway, I wake up at like 5.36

Speaker 2 and I usually will check my phone, do a little work, have a cup of coffee, and then either I run or go to Pilates.

Speaker 2 So five or six days a week, I do something physical in the morning because I can have time. I take Pablo for a run so it doesn't drive everybody in the house crazy every morning.

Speaker 2 Get back, wake up my kid, who's still home, Jack 15, make him something for breakfast, start getting ready to go.

Speaker 2 And if I'm working at home, which is rare, or in the office, I'll get into the office at like 9:30 9.30 or 10. I don't have many more morning rituals.

Speaker 2 Face stuff and all that, I think, happens more at night, like just the creams and the whatever and the vitamins.

Speaker 1 I'm like this tinted sunscreen girl. That's really it.
Yeah. The rest I don't have the energy for.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But I, it's interesting that you go to your phone or like you work right away because I try to like not this hours. Like I get up at 4.30 or 5 every day, but I'm like, nope, this hour is for me.

Speaker 1 I have like coffee or do what I

Speaker 2 feel like. If I don't first get rid of whatever, I mean, I have clients that are in Switzerland, I have to respond.

Speaker 2 Also, I told you my dad every morning texts me at 5:30, so I want to text back so that he knows I'm alive and his little girl like made it through the night. So, but yeah, I think just starting out.

Speaker 2 And if I see it's a long email that I have to write, that's something cohesive, I usually will have my coffee first.

Speaker 2 The runtime is for me, like, I don't answer my phone when I'm running a good like hour where I just can clear my head. I'm not a good meditator, I can't sit still.

Speaker 2 This is my way of being able to do that.

Speaker 1 And I'm the same. When I, in like my gym time, I try to take that hour and don't touch my phone.

Speaker 1 I'm like, this is my one hour where some other people I'm working out with, they will just stop every five minutes. I'm like, that to me, that's so frustrating.
Right.

Speaker 2 And I think it's rude also to whoever's training you. I feel bad about it.
Like, if I'm, you know, like, I'm so sorry. Hold on.
You know, no, I agree.

Speaker 1 So I think you're always known for your polished style and your fashion. I mean, do you pull from someone for courtroom fashion?

Speaker 2 No, courtroom fashion is rough. I mean, you want to.

Speaker 1 It is, but you make it look so good.

Speaker 2 Well, yeah. It's i I'm not good with jackets because I'm small, so they tend to make me look like a fire hydrant.
Like, it's just stumpy, so I like to wear more fitted things.

Speaker 2 When I started practicing, like, one of my dad's partners was like, we don't wear pants at this firm. Women don't wear pants, which is fine because I'm not a pantsuit person anyway.
Right.

Speaker 2 But also, I have a tattoo on my ankle that I've had since I was in college, and I don't like to wear stockings. Like, it just, so I would always have bare legs.
So, that was an issue.

Speaker 2 He didn't like that my hair was too long and down. And if I didn't like blow it dry, it would be wavy.
And it was like pre-Giselle. But he was like, who do you think you are?

Speaker 2 Like, you know, George of the Jungle's wife going in there with this hair. So I would put my hair up in a bun.
I had actually fake glasses that didn't even have a prescription that I'd wear.

Speaker 2 I mean, it was so

Speaker 2 now I can wear what I want, but I'm still, I still need to be respectful of the judges. So, I mean,

Speaker 2 like my basics are like a Laya.

Speaker 2 There's some good Valentino. And by the way, I save up up so that I can buy stuff because I love clothes.

Speaker 2 Like besides putting my kids through school and making, I have boys, so I don't have to spend as much on their clothes. But like clothes, I'm a clothes horse.
I mean, I love it. I love the shoes.

Speaker 2 I love Tom Ford. I love being able to dress up.

Speaker 2 And then literally on the total flip side, I will have a totally separate, I'm a Gemini, so maybe just the, you know, schizophrenia of me, total separate wardrobe for weekends and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 More of a beach girl, hippie, boho, Isabel Marat, that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 Chloe now this this last couple seasons well kim is uh starring in a tv show that's loosely based off of you loosely loosely we're gonna say loosely loosely one of my favorite things is all her fashion i don't know if you've seen it or if she's been sending you i have

Speaker 2 i have heard about the fashion one also one of the crop masters was like oh my god and not just hers yeah like glenn's naomi's everybody is dressed by the way i can't wait till the women at my firm see this show because they're going to be like, What has gone wrong here that we're not dressing like these women?

Speaker 1 No, what I've seen, it's like vintage mu glare. It's so chic and incredible that to me, I'd be like, That's the best compliment.

Speaker 2 You got to glamorize. It's like having gallows humor.
You have to dress beautifully if you're going to be doing this kind of law and hearing this much misery day in and day out.

Speaker 2 I hear the show is amazing. I can't wait.

Speaker 1 Oh, I hear it's amazing, and you and I both have to go to

Speaker 1 for sure.

Speaker 2 I have a funny story to tell you, and I don't think you would mind. Your brother-in-law, Travis, I represented him years ago.

Speaker 2 And we had a court appearance that was going to be in the office. A judge was coming in to do the court appearance.
We had a private judge. And he said, I don't think I have the right thing to wear.

Speaker 2 And I said, okay, come in about an hour early in whatever you want, and then we'll figure it out. And you know, my office is in Century City, so it's near the mall.

Speaker 2 And I think at the time it was like Bullocks. There was maybe a Bullocks and a Broadway or whatever at that Century City mall.
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 So he came over and he was wearing like a torn shirt, you know, whatever, neck tattoos, piercings. And I was like, okay.
And so we walked over to Bullocks and we bought him a suit.

Speaker 2 It was a Hugo boss suit. We got him fitted.
We got the neck, the collar so it could go up as far as we could. I mean, the judge knew kind of who he was and saw the tattoos.

Speaker 2 But again, we wanted the judge to know he was willing to be respectful. What he's like, you know, I'll never wear this again.
I said, give it to a charity, but we need to do this.

Speaker 2 And he was a really good sport about it. And it was just great.
It was kind of like a little brother type of thing that we did.

Speaker 1 That is so funny. I love that.
But that is so him. He will go with the flow.

Speaker 1 He'll be like, okay, got it i know this is my best interest that is so funny let's go to like decompressing okay because how you just said this kind of job you have to dress the part and you dress good to feel good that's how i feel

Speaker 1 and in the line of work that you're in i'm sure it can get really heavy and emotional or sometimes just like do you ever not believe in love or like and what do you do to decompress at the end of like a brutal court day well i mean first of all I still believe in love.

Speaker 2 I just believe that there's dicks out there. I mean, there are definitely people that I'm.

Speaker 2 And also, keep in mind, and I say this to clients all the time, a lot of divorce lawyers make money off of other people's conflict.

Speaker 2 I mean, come on, the longer we keep this going, the more money we're making.

Speaker 2 So I have to explain to clients, like, let's us get this resolved before we're paying a lot of money to me and to the other guy.

Speaker 2 But I still do believe that that's possible to decompress. I mean, I'm a beach girl.
So I will,

Speaker 2 if it's warm enough, I will jump in the ocean. I will, you know, go out to Malibu.
I will have a swim or a surf. My kids have always loved the beach, so we'll do that if we can.

Speaker 2 I'm way more of a warm weather vacation person. I like skiing, but I just, I love being in the sun.
I love being skipping.

Speaker 1 I always say if you take me in the snow, that's a trip. Right.
But a vacation is the beach. I totally agree.

Speaker 2 So that's

Speaker 2 100%.

Speaker 2 Exactly. And then also when you have kids, it's a whole different ski thing.
Oh, it's brutal. I mean, there's snot and you're carrying everyone's pole.

Speaker 1 It's a whole different ski. And then they're dressed.
They're like, like, I have to go pottery. I'm like, no,

Speaker 1 we're not. Hold it.
No, we're not. Pee on yourself.
I don't care.

Speaker 2 But then on a day-to-day basis, I don't know. I'm a big tequila drinker.
I mean,

Speaker 2 I have my moments and I have a lot of really good friends. I mean, I grew up here.
I've got good friends. They know what kind of a job I have.
And they are actually like really, I have.

Speaker 2 Two of my best girlfriends live, like one five houses up and one five houses down.

Speaker 2 And then my other best girlfriend runs my firm. So like we all, yeah, I mean, yeah, it's so it's, it can actually be fun.

Speaker 2 And as we're all kind of getting older and our kids are growing up and leaving the nest, you know, we're like, hey, it's 5:30. You know, is it wine time? And I'm like, guys, I'm not even home yet.

Speaker 2 Can you just slow your roll for a minute? But I love that.

Speaker 1 Do you ever have conflict working with your best friend?

Speaker 2 No, because she runs the firm. So my conflict is like, she's like, this person didn't pay us.
And I'm like, well, I guess you better get them to pay. She's not, she's not a lawyer.
So that's good.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Oh, I love that.
I didn't know that. Yes.
What would you say is your parenting philosophy? Like, how do you handle, you have two boys. Do you try to guide them when it comes to love?

Speaker 1 Or do you think that they've seen a lot where that's sort of been their teacher?

Speaker 2 They've seen a lot. Remember, I'm a Jewish mother.
So one day I'm going to be a Jewish mother-in-law. So I try to refrain from comment.

Speaker 2 I have to say, my little one hasn't kind of dipped his toe in the romance waters yet. It's mostly just a bunch of like little girls that are over, like giggling and whatever.

Speaker 2 My older one has a serious girlfriend in Miami, and he's brought her home. And I love her, and she's lovely.

Speaker 2 and again if I didn't I know that the more I said about it the more it would push him into her arms so I just sit back he's 19 I mean I don't know you know I hope this young woman is somebody he knows for a long time but I don't know that they're gonna get married and I just kind of watch it all happen which is what my parents did too I mean I think they knew when I got married at 25 that that wasn't gonna be the person that I was probably gonna be with for the rest of my life and they just watched it happen paid all that money for that wedding were supportive and were like it's all good I mean, I think both of my kids have seen enough to know that they probably are going to have prenuptial agreements when they get married.

Speaker 1 Which I don't see anything wrong with.

Speaker 2 I don't either. And I think it's great for them to be like, look, Laura Wasser's my mom.
I got to have a prenup. And they'll probably be like, okay.

Speaker 1 I'm going to protect them until the cows come home. My parents are the same way.
Like, they were super chill. I don't think I'm going to be like that.
And I want to be.

Speaker 1 I'm always like, what would Chris Jenner do?

Speaker 2 You're going to be like your mom. I praise you.
You are. I mean, you are.
It's hard not to be, frankly.

Speaker 2 And when you have a mom that you actually respect and you like how she parented you, and then you'll roll your eyes and be like, oh my God, I'm being like my mom.

Speaker 2 For better or for worse, you will be like that. I mean, you may be a little bit more protective.
And I know, like, Courtney's a little different, Kim's a little different.

Speaker 2 But ultimately, you guys are all Chris's kids, and you are going to, you're going to lead with that. I really do think that.

Speaker 1 I hope so, because I'm always like, how did she let go? I know True's.

Speaker 1 She hasn't totally let go.

Speaker 2 You and I and she have had some conversations in the last couple years in the morning.

Speaker 1 But I love those like types of holding back. But like when you're 15 and dating someone and like you see like the car crash about to happen, I would be like, get the fuck away from this douche.

Speaker 1 Where my mom was like, it's okay. Like, I don't know what

Speaker 1 to do with vodka.

Speaker 2 Like, okay, so that's the thing. If I have one of my good girlfriends, her older daughter went to college a couple of years ago and she'd never gotten drunk.
She was kind of a goody-goody.

Speaker 2 She was kind of a nerd. And it was like the summer before she left, she was like at a party and she got drunk.
And we were like, yes, thank God. Cause you don't want them away

Speaker 2 for their first experience. So you got to kind of, again, I've said to them, if you have an issue, call me.
I will not be angry. I will not ask questions.

Speaker 2 You'll get it the next day, but you're not going to get it in the moment. I want you to be able to feel comfortable.
And usually they will if you make them feel that way, but it's hard.

Speaker 2 And I would imagine it'd be harder with girls. I have to admit that.
With my older, even though she was not my biological child, she was living with us when she was a teen and early 20s.

Speaker 2 And yes, there was times where the inside of my mouth had like a big welt on it from biting so much not to say something.

Speaker 1 No, and I agree. And my mom was the same.
She would,

Speaker 1 in that moment, would not be super brutal to us. The next day, yes, when we were coherent and could understand, we definitely would.

Speaker 2 You don't want to waste all that anger on somebody.

Speaker 1 When I walk up, wait. Yeah.
I need to remember every bit of it.

Speaker 1 So, like, I even have a girlfriend that can't afford in her head to get a divorce. She thinks she has to go and get this crazy expensive lawyer and she can't do it.

Speaker 1 But my mom was telling me about this website that you have and you can't do that.

Speaker 2 So yes, it started in 2018 and it's called, it was called It's Oveasy. Then we were acquired in 22

Speaker 2 by a company called divorce.com and I am still their chief of divorce evolution, whatever that means. I'm just the face of it in some ways.

Speaker 2 Divorce.com, I know people that you know who are using it and you go online, you give them your information. They'll find you a mediator if need be, a lawyer if need be.

Speaker 2 It is so much less expensive than my ridiculously high hourly rate. They will help you through it.
They will explain it to you.

Speaker 2 We are so lucky that in this day and age, although we might not love the social media and the 24-hour news cycle and the TMZ of it all, we have access to so much information online and services like this where you don't have to pay.

Speaker 2 It's like $2,500 or something for a full divorce. And you get the knowledge.
And because you're getting the knowledge and you're learning,

Speaker 2 you have the sense of empowerment of being the master of your own universe because you and your spouse are working it out together. And so I think it's great.
I'm a huge fan of theirs.

Speaker 2 And then there's another company that I'm an advisor called Hello Prenup, which is amazing. Online prenups.
So you and your fiancé

Speaker 2 talk about it. And you cannot get...
a prenup that's enforceable in this country pretty much. For sure in California, but almost every state necessitates you having two lawyers.

Speaker 2 So in the past, it was very difficult to do something like this on your own.

Speaker 2 Now you can work the whole thing out and with Hello Prenup, they'll assign attorneys to you to kind of look it over, help you make sure it's good and bless it and sign it.

Speaker 2 So now you've got the attorneys and it's not super expensive. And I do think it's so also that same sense of empowerment that you have with the divorce that you're doing on your own.

Speaker 2 If you're doing the prenup, you're really having the conversations that you know are important to have before you kind of cast your life with somebody and then have kids with them and are like stuck with them for this long period of time.

Speaker 2 If you can't have those kind of conversations, then you're in trouble.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 And you shouldn't be getting married. Correct.
Right. I remember I had like no money when I met Lamar.
We actually had the same business manager, and they were like, Oh, you need to sign a prenup.

Speaker 1 And I was like, What's a prenup? And then when I was presented with it, I was like offended at first. And then I was like, Wait, I'm not offended by this.

Speaker 1 Once it was explained to me, I really understood what was going on. I was like, Okay, sure, let's sign.
And it benefited him at the time. And in the end, in the end, it actually benefited me.
So

Speaker 1 because

Speaker 1 our financial situations shifted. And so not that it benefited, I was protected.
Right.

Speaker 1 And I think people don't realize that it's not about give me, give me, get me, get me. It's really just about protecting your own assets.
And you don't know what's going to happen during that union.

Speaker 1 Or I didn't know. I had no money when I married him.
And then I ended up having more money at. the end from my career taking off and all that stuff.

Speaker 1 So it was, even if you're offended, you can be offended, be in your feelings, but it's really the best protection for both.

Speaker 2 And having the conversations about being offended or, well, wouldn't I resent you if we went for this whole period of time and I thought for whatever reason that we were just staying married because you were in it for the money or because you, this or having that communication, I think before you get married, I mean, a lot of religions make you kind of have some counseling with a priest or a rabbi or whatever.

Speaker 2 This is that next step. And people don't realize that when you get married, that's a contract.
They're like, I don't want a contract to define my marriage.

Speaker 1 Bro, you're having a contract.

Speaker 2 And you better know what the terms are, and you better be cool with them because if you're not, restructure them.

Speaker 1 I think prenups are so important, and that's amazing. What's it called?

Speaker 2 You said? Hello, prenup. Hello, prenup.
And divorce.com.

Speaker 1 My mom was raving about divorce.com. I'm like, okay, you got it.
Calm down.

Speaker 1 So, and my mom also wanted, I don't know if you know the stats. My mom was asking, what do you think the statistics are for the divorce rate? Now

Speaker 2 I think they've been hovering around 50% for a long time. We were one of the first states states in California to have what's called no-fault divorce.

Speaker 2 That's when you just check the box that says irreconcilable differences. Like, it's not working, no question.

Speaker 2 New York was one of the last states to switch over to no-fault. And before it was no fault, you actually had to say something that the other person did.
If it was fraud or, you know,

Speaker 2 I think it was like cruelty or whatever. So now you're starting out of the gate with some like massive, and you have to be able to prove that that's the point.

Speaker 2 And then you're going into court and you're saying, he did this and she did this.

Speaker 2 And remember like in the old movies where somebody would bust into a hotel room and the woman's holding the sheet up and they're taking pictures with the flash.

Speaker 2 Adultery was one of the grounds for divorce.

Speaker 2 As we know, if you have two, particularly parents, but people where it's not working for whatever reason, whether there's terrible domestic violence or just like, hey, we're not evolving and growing as people.

Speaker 2 We've been raised in our culture and in our generations to think, okay, you cut your losses and you move on and you part friends. And if you have kids, you raise them.

Speaker 2 But imagine now being in a situation where you have to stay in that marriage right that terrifies me more than just the fact that i would you know also divorce lawyers would make so much more money because everybody would just be churning at fault that scares me too what would you say are some really important conversations that couples should have before they get married Money conversations.

Speaker 2 I think we are so uncomfortable speaking about money, particularly women, and we kind of

Speaker 2 avoid it at all costs. We don't want to.
And I don't know about you. I've been in relationships before with men who made less than I did.
And it was always very uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 We don't want to emasculate them.

Speaker 2 If we're going to go out with another couple, we give them the credit card so they pay so it doesn't look like we're paying for taking a vacation or if we're with our kids, you know, doing things that aren't going to hurt anybody's feelings.

Speaker 2 Where if the gender roles were reversed, you probably wouldn't do that. It's not weird for a guy to pay for dinner for everybody or whatever.

Speaker 2 I think having conversations about money is so important, not only if you make more than the guy but hey this is what I'm thinking in terms of what I want to put aside every year for retirement or hey my parents are older and I don't ever want to put them in a home I want them to be able to come live with us so if we're going to buy a house let's buy somewhere that has like an adjacent guest house or hey how much student loan do you have before we get married these are things that I think people don't like to talk about and it's not sexy and it's not fun right but they're super important.

Speaker 2 Hey, I was thinking after we have kids, I probably don't want to go back to work for a while. How do you feel about that?

Speaker 2 Because I can't tell you how many guys come into me and go, she never went back to work.

Speaker 2 I married her. She was a business manager.
She did it. Now she didn't go back to work.
And I was like, well, did that never come up? Now, sometimes it comes up.

Speaker 2 And then once you have this angel baby, you don't want to leave and go back to work. I get that, but at least you've had that conversation.

Speaker 1 What's interesting is, because I've never done this, like thinking that far ahead, like about your parents or things like that, because when you do get married, you intend for it to be forever.

Speaker 1 I've had the conversations about money or where are we living right now or those things, but never that far ahead. And that seems so.

Speaker 2 How about even just you? Well, you're not as old as I am, but like, I don't ever want my kids to be in a situation where they have to pay for me.

Speaker 2 I always want to have enough money, whatever medical care, whatever's happening. So, and again, people don't like to do estate plans either because you have to really look at your mortality.

Speaker 2 When I die, what am I leaving? Who? Who's going to have the, you know, the health care? Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 Well, I love an estate plan. That's weird.

Speaker 2 But again, it's good, but this is like another thing, an estate plan for for your estate when you are alive. And having that conversation, I think, is important.
And really thinking that far out.

Speaker 1 I don't know if this is how you feel, but because you've lost your mother, I've lost my dad.

Speaker 1 I think all of these things, estate planning, wills, all of that, matter so much to me and my siblings because of the things that weren't taken care of when my father passed away.

Speaker 1 I don't know how your mom was, but it just, and you're a lawyer. But my dad had, he didn't practice law at that time, but he was still a lawyer.
And we were just like, huh.

Speaker 1 Like, I know he died really quickly. He died in five weeks of diagnosis.
So

Speaker 1 it was definitely, I don't think, but we still were all surprised that more estate planning didn't happen.

Speaker 2 I think it's different these days. I think we talk about it more these days than we did back in those days.

Speaker 2 I also have noticed among my male clients, they have a bigger problem facing their possible mortality. I don't go to doctors.

Speaker 2 And I didn't know your dad well, but what I know of him, I can imagine him being like, like my dad, I'm going to live forever. Right.

Speaker 2 We're signing a new lease right now on our space in our firm, and it's a 10-year lease. And so my dad's like, well, haven't you consulted me?

Speaker 2 And I don't want to be a bitch, but I'm like, he's like, because I'm still going to be here in 10 years.

Speaker 1 I'm like, you're 83.

Speaker 1 And I hope he is still here in 10 years.

Speaker 2 But, you know. So, yeah, I think they don't like to face their mortality.
And that's why they're not as good about planning for things. I am meticulous.

Speaker 2 I am, you know, also, I don't know why, but I have this kind of depression era mentality and I'm just sure something terrible is going to happen.

Speaker 2 I'm not like, oh, if I get sick, I'm like, when I get sick. So I'm, and again, I'm a single mom.

Speaker 2 So you're constantly thinking, what would happen if what would happen if I've got letters that I write to my kids every year, like when you open this? I'm, I'm ready.

Speaker 2 I'm ready for that plane to go down.

Speaker 1 Oh my God. Well, don't say that.
But Kimberly does that. She writes, I think it's every one of her kids' birthdays.
She writes them each a handwritten letter.

Speaker 1 I don't do that. I need to do that because I would give anything if when my dad died, if I had letters that he wrote me.
Like, I have nothing of his. I'm like, well, I need something.

Speaker 1 So, I, what Kim does and what you do, I think that's so beautiful. What made you get into that?

Speaker 2 Because my mom did that.

Speaker 2 I still have like a letter that my mom. My mom, even when I was in my like early 50s, my mom would write and she also was, she cut out a lot of newspaper articles.

Speaker 2 I mean, obviously the ones of me, but she would cut out other things that were just of interest and she would still mail them to me from Malibu.

Speaker 2 I'm like, mom, I'm gonna see you before, but like, and then say, like, I'm so proud of you, love mama, or I thought this made me think of you. And you know, Nicole Avant, right?

Speaker 2 So her mom and my mom were very good friends. Okay.
And her mom would cut out all the magazine or newspaper articles about me, Jackie, and my mom would cut out all of the articles about Nicole.

Speaker 2 And they would send them to us. I love them.
So I would call Nicole and I'd be like, yo, did you get the talk

Speaker 1 about me?

Speaker 1 Oh my gosh. I love that.
I want to be better.

Speaker 2 It gets easier as they get older and they don't need you so much. And then you're home by yourself and nobody's paying attention to you, and you can write them a letter.

Speaker 1 Alexa just had a baby, my assistant. She's five months.
And, you know, at that beginning, you're like, God, can they get older so we can do things?

Speaker 1 And then, as soon as that milestone passes, you're sobbing. I know.
And then after, I think, two years old, it just goes so fast because the stages stop.

Speaker 2 But it's so fun when they start talking to you. I mean, it's just, it really, it's a great ride.
Like, even my 19-year-old, like, he's three hours ahead.

Speaker 2 So every morning after I text my dad, then I text my son, like, good morning, Luke.

Speaker 2 And like probably four out of five days a week he'll write back and be like good morning my mama you know sometimes he'll call like when he's on his way he's always when he's on his way somewhere but it's like a check-in you if you've seen those instagram things all the athletes as they're coming out of the thing like how often do you call your mom and they're like every day every day twice a day whatever i want my kids to be those kids and they will be yeah well some i'm like some's like once a month like i see those right

Speaker 2 but those guys always feel bad and all of the friends all of the other teammates are like bro you suck right they're all like what's wrong with you?

Speaker 1 And I love that they sort of shame the one that. It's like, I never do.
We're going to wrap this up with one of your iconic quotes. I don't dress or work out so people will take a picture of me.

Speaker 1 I do it because I hope I'm going to get laid. I said that? That's, yes.
At least it's quoted. I believe everything that's on the internet.
I know. I don't remember seeing that.

Speaker 2 I definitely don't dress or work out to get a picture taken of me.

Speaker 1 So let's do it to get laid. Let's do it to get laid.
Let's do it to get laid. Listen, I work out to get laughed to get laid.

Speaker 1 I'm like, someone's going to see this naked one day, and it has to look good one day.

Speaker 2 Have you ever heard that thing that people are saying? Like, take naked pictures of yourself right now. Because as much as you might hate them in 10 years, you'll be like, oh, it was hot.

Speaker 1 My mom tells me that. Okay, wow.
I'm like, are you okay? Can you stop? She's always like, you're never going to look as good as you look right now. It's true.

Speaker 1 She'll tell me that. She's like, wear a bikini.
Like, it could be snowing. She's like, just wear a bikini.
I'm like, I love you, mom.

Speaker 2 Well, tell, tell Chris I'm wearing the bikini still.

Speaker 1 No one, not getting laid, still wearing a bikini. Neither am I, but we're going to wear that bikini.
Just say a prayer.

Speaker 1 Well, thank you for coming. You are welcome.
Thanks for having me. I love you too, honey.
Thank you.