“I’ve… Been Through” (w/ Ariana Grande)

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Hey readers, it is so thrilling to tell you about a new podcast from the iconic, the incomparable, Michelle Obama and her big brother Craig called IMO. You know, on Lost Culture Recess, we dive deep into the culture and get real with our guests.
Likewise, on IMO, Michelle, Craig, and their guests tackle questions from listeners just like you, offering practical advice, personal storytelling, and plenty of laughs. From dating and relationships to family and faith, Michelle and Craig give their candid perspectives to the everyday questions shaping our lives and the world around us.
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Hey everybody, it's me, Matt Rogers, letting you know tickets are on sale now to see me on tour.

The Prince of Christmas tour, that is.

I'm doing my whole album, Have You Heard of Christmas?

Plus a lot more with the whole band all throughout December.

Go to www.mattrogersofficial.com to see me in a city near you. And now, Las Coulteras.
Drums. Look, Matt.
There. Oh, I see.
Wow. Bowen, look over there.
Wow, is that culture? Yes. Oh, my goodness.
Wow. Las Cistas.
Ding dong, Las Culturistas calling. Tactile as fuck.
Tactile AF. AF? I've been smiling and beaming all day.
I woke up with a giggle. Oh my God.
I sort of leapt out of bed and then I looked at myself in the mirror and then I immediately got sad because I think I'm actually developing a stye. Bluffaritis.
No, if you develop a stye, you just nip it in the bud and you put rice in a sock, you put it in the microwave for 30 seconds, and then you just warm compost. Is that the cure? Mm-hmm.
All right, good. I was all nervous today.
So I literally was so excited for this. I got a facial yesterday.
I got a facial for the episode. Oh, fun.
I went to the Equinox Spa and Hotel. I love.
Which is in Hudson Yards, really the best area of New York. Remember when I was looking for an apartment in Hudson Yards? I don't think I gave you any guff for it.
I was like, if that's where Matt is happiest, Matt belongs at the theme park of New York City. And this is what I wanted to tell you.
Yeah, go. How do you feel about Rockefeller Center making a real play at being the only real technical zoned theme park in New York.
Because that's what they're trying to do. As the prince of Rockefeller Center, I actually have to say, we actually are the royal court of Rockefeller Center if you think about it.
We're the jesters in the court. So as a representative of the zone, I couldn't be prouder of my sisters who are making that place a theme park.
They really are doing it. Very happy about it rides you got a strap on a seat belt you know i've gone to the top of the rockefeller center and like you go on the beam and it spins around it's very thrilling you would love it i think not yet though is that my cue no not yet so never mind don't I'm so sorry.
No, come on. I'm so sorry.
I just need you to stay. Dave, you got it? How would you like me? This way? No, Bone, you're actually leaning to your right.
I know you feel natural. Can we go a touch to our left hand? Yeah.
Yes, both of us. Sorry to break your flow, guys.
I'm so sorry. Just a tiniest.
I'm getting a lot. What do you want me to do? I just need you to go to your.
Yes, of course. Thank you so much.
Perfect. No problem.
No, it's okay. I'm really glad it's that.
Not what I thought it was. What was it? I thought she was coming in like.
Thys is a lot. What do you want me to do? Yes, of course.
No, it's okay. I'm really glad it's that and not what I thought it was.
I thought she was coming in like, guys, there's a fire. We gotta get out of here.
Come on. Use all this.
Stairs only. That's where my mind goes.
She came in and I was like, something's happening. She had the energy of like, it's an emergency.
Well, yeah, that was emergency energy. The way the hair moved was urgent.
Gorgeous. excited and scared here we go no we're back we're using all of that we're using all of it is being used and I won't even the part where I got a little snippy I was like I'm getting a lot what do you want to do no honestly like that's authenticity Bo and that's why people love Lost Cultures with Matt Rogers and Bo and Young because this is ass show.
Oh, yeah. And that was a real moment.
And here's what I really want to say. You've said the theme park thing.
Do you know how I spent my morning? I've been thinking about the wicked theme park ride all day. I've seen the film.
And I want to unveil what I think the experience of the theme park ride at. Epic Universe.
Epic Universe. Put it in between.
There's a spot for it. You put it in between Super Nintendo World and the Dark Universe.
I feel like that's a perfect meeting for Wicked. It's Emerald City slash Oz, whatever they want to do.
And I can't wait to pitch to our guest my idea for the theme park ride. The story of it.
Okay. Because I know we're with one of the true girlies.
We're with one of the true Floridian girlies. Let's bring her in.
Talk about your pal. She literally saved my life.
I can't even look at you. I fucking love you.
She's the legend. She's playing Glinda in Wicked Part 1.
Maybe Part 2. She's playing Glinda.
You'll have to wait to see what happens at the end of Act 1. Does the character die? Who knows? Is there a death? Imagine the twist of like they killed Glendon.
Oh my God. They really took a swing.
That sucks. We loved her performance in the first.
I know. If the munchkins in Munchkinland.
It's like a dark wicked. Like the dark knight.
Our guest is a singular talent and icon. I mean, I am a fan.
I've always been a fan. This is surreal.
I can't believe she's here. I mean, Eternal Sunshine, one of the albums of the year, like to say nothing of everything else she's ever put out.
I mean, I can't believe this is happening. It's the film of the year Wicked.
And this guest you're about to welcome into your ears is the one, the fucking only, Ariana Grande.

Thank you.

That's my cue.

Yeah.

I've been tempted to jump in every third sentence.

That's sort of the vibe. So sorry.

I know, but it's just been so tempting.

We really work our guests up

and then they chime in and then they're ready to go.

Okay, so pitch hi.

Hi.

Thank you for having me.

This is a blessing and a half and three quarters.

Is this weird?

Is this already weird?

Am I weird?

No.

We start over?

No, this is perfection.

Okay.

Do we have a question? Okay, so pitch hi. Thank you for having me.
This is a blessing and a half and three quarters. Is this already weird? Am I weird? No, this is perfection.
Okay. Do you want to know the Wicked theme park ride? Tell me now.
Because you want this to happen. Of course I do.
And I have ideas as well. Okay, so let's collab.
I think you go to like, it's not shiz, it's the Emerald City. And the vibe is like, Galinda live today is going to address everyone.
The Ozians's like we're all going you're already taking a nap I'm only thinking about when we're going to have to shoot that oh god yeah we can figure it out I think about that sometimes you know yeah shooting like the theme park b-roll yeah shooting like you know Hermione like, don't forget to wear your seatbelts. Yeah.
You know, like that vibe. Sometimes I feel like, are they still doing that? Are they going to go out to like D.
Radcliffe and the crew? I think they're on contract and they're locked into something. Can you do your Hermione impression? Do you know what I'm talking about? Ron's been splinched.
That? Been splinched? Harry, Ron, Harry, Ron's been splinched. Perfect.
Oh my God, you heard something in the nose. Ron, Ron.
There is. What is that? No, you can't.
I love the vocal fray so much. It's so good.
The vocal what? The vocal fray. The fray.
Oh my God. I love it so much.
Yeah. Okay, so Glenda, today Glenda is addressing...
Today, Glenda live. Like, it's you and then everyone.
Like, we as the guests coming in are going to, like, see the speech. And then something is, like, happening.
So this takes place between Wicked 1 and 2. Okay.
So in that area... Oh, that's fun.
That's fun. Like, so it's like we believe that Elphaba's, like, afoot.
Yeah. Like, there's signs that are, like, get the witch.
You know what I mean? Like, and then like, we get in the ride and I don't know the like rest of this, but like that's the setup and like you are like, get ready to speak and then there's like weather. Weather.
Morval. Seeds start to move.
We think it's Elphaba, but we know it's Morval. Michelle Yeoh going listen! Don't let her get away!

If you want to. That's the best shot in the whole thing.

When she turns

and the monkeys go

oh my god.

It's the best shot of any movie

I've ever seen in my life. She's so

hot. She's so beautiful

and regal and powerful.

When she goes, Wicked Witch.

Yes! What a choice to get quiet. Wicked Witch.
Oh, please. I love Michelle.
She's brilliant. I've seen it.
I DM'd you. I'm blown away by the movie.
And it's just like you guys, just to leave the fake world of the theme park right now, we'll figure it out. Like TKTK theme park ride.
The very real film is so brilliant.

And like, you know it.

You know it.

You.

Wicked is a film about Fanny.

He's a gay boy.

He's a gay boy.

Who wants to make it big in the world, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He knows that

the media landscape of Oz

is not ready for a foth like him. Very homophobic city.
A homophobic country. I have the best video in the world of you rehearsing at Shiz.
It's been in my drafts for two years. Post.
Of him. No.
His little pink cap over your hair, because we weren't ready to film yet with your little clips in. And he's half in wardrobe wardrobe, half in like some cute like Bowen thing.
Yeah. And he's just like, what did he say? Wait, what did Madame Morales say? Alpha mustn't get wet.
All right, fine. I'm gay.
Jizz. Jizz, I'm gay.
But I don't want that to be the most interesting thing about me. Yeah, because it threatens to be.
I've watched it 300 times. Honestly.
How do we feel about the original person who read for Fanny at the table read for Wicked was Sutton Foster. What? Have I desecrated Sutton's name? Wait, no.
What are you talking about? In the original sort of like table read for Wicked before any of the shows, any of the, whatever, any of the tryouts. That was Sutton Foster? They had Idina and they had Kristen, but then they had Sutton Foster.
As Fanny? As Fanny. Years ago? That is the most important thing I've ever heard.
Yeah. It's crazy.
That is so spectacular. Like circa 2001 or whatever.
How did I not know this? No, I didn't know this either until people were sending to me. Oh my God.
Isn't that crazy? I mean, she's going to be so floored and proud. No way.
She's going, absolutely. She won't so you could run.
And I've been saying that for years. His brilliance in this film? I mean, he lights up the screen like he lights up my life.
Every time you come on the screen, I'm like, in a word, period. Just so incredibly brilliant.
And I also just want like a string out of everything you said because I just, I really do. I want to string out.
Let's bring string outs back. I love string outs.
Can we just string out today? I want to string out. Let's go ahead of everything he said on that set.
Yeah. I got to see last night.
What? Cynthia and I went to go do like, watch along and make commentary thing. Oh, fun.
But while we were there, they showed us deleted scenes. Oh.
And I got to see I've Been Through. Oh my, wait, they kept I've Been Through.
I've Been Through. Talk about that so everyone knows.
So they did, spoiler alert, they did cut the scene where Glinda meets Fanny and Shenzhen again. But it's very cute and you will get to see it.
Oh, really? You will get to see it. It's coming out.
Because I want to see it. That was my one notice.
I was like, well, who are they? Who are these two? We kind of just made it all up. Yeah, I love that.
John was like, all right, you guys meet here. Uh-huh.
And maybe you do a little, you know, and we were like, perfect, we'll do it. And so we did the weird dance thing, whatever it was.
We did the weird dance thing. And then I.
I was like, oh, how are you guys really? And yeah, so Ari is going to go, so how are you? It's been so long. How are you guys really? And then I, for some reason, made the choice to go, I've, I've been through.

And we said,

I've been through

for two years after that.

I've been through.

And then the other,

the other phrase was,

I have had scandal.

I have had scandal.

I have had scandal.

Belonged in the movie.

I have had scandal.

I have had scandal.

Title of that.

I have had scandal.

I have had scandal.

I've been through.

I've,

dot dot dot.

I've been through is title of that.

Yeah,

I've dot dot dot been through,

which we all have.

I've been through.

I've been through is.

Not it.

No.

I know. I've been through I've been through I've been through is title of that yeah I've dot dot dot been through which we all have I've been through I've been through not it no I've been through I've been through just I've been through and we just all collapsed it was so ticklish it was so funny there was the coolest waitress I used to waitress with would always say oh my god that person is so and never ever said the word after that That's the safe thing to do.
That's very safe. That's really safe.
You always knew. You know? Oh, how was Ari? She was so.
And then you get to, you know. Fill in the blank.
It's a lot about how you say so. Absolutely.
Yeah. It's an invitation for more projection.
It protects and projects. Yes, it protects and projects.
Wait, but you thing I've been through is so funny to me because that's like minute three of the film. It's too much.
It's so funny. I understand why it's cut because it makes no tonal sense with the rest of the film.
It lives on its own, but in the most brilliant way. The same way that I don't see color lives on its own.
Do we think that that comes to it? No, it's so funny and it's so brilliant. And it also is like, yeah, we're commenting on what we're commenting on in this film.
It's actually the most brilliant comedic way of saying, yeah, that's what this is about. I can't believe, I find it miraculous that that stayed in the final cut.
It's the best. I was hoping and praying.
I had literally my fingers and toes crossed and was sitting in the audience watching for the very first time. And I literally, John Chu was sitting right next to me and I literally was like, thank you.
Thank you. I was like, thank God.
Thank goodness, honestly. We need some Bowen Yang ad-libs in the final cut.
You guys, there's something terrible about an ad-lib that you do on set because you're with a friend and you're disarmed and you're being stupid. And then you see it and then you go, well, fuck, a gajillion people are going to watch me do this stupid.
And have a lot of feelings about it as well. And, you know, that's like once you leave the set and you're like, the fuck

did we just, what just happened?

That's what we filmed. Right.

Hope anything's okay.

Wow. I feel like I blacked out for two

years and now I'm like, oh,

good morning. Now the people

are coming. Come on in.
The fans of Wicked

are going to sit there and be like, we have a lot

of feelings about what this has always been

to us. And now this is the film.

Which is such a beautiful, which is such a beautiful blessing and responsibility to have as people who also love it and have lived for this for 20 years and have done the research, like read the L. Frank Baum books and done their homework and have lived it and loved it.
And, you know,

it's such a beautiful celebration. And we welcome the feelings.
I'm a fangirl with those feelings about the things I love. Totally.
To quote the show, I ask you a question. What is this feeling now for you? So sudden and new.
So sudden and new. It was like two years of your life where you were monastic.
You were a monk

being like, I'm going to be so

disciplined about this. So sudden and new.
So sudden and new. It was like two years of your life where you were like monastic.

You were a monk being like, I'm going to be so disciplined about this. And now I feel like it happened yesterday.
And now all of a sudden we're like, oh, fuck. We have to like in a way like relive what happened and then also like package it into a way that like feels good for a soundbite.
Right. And promote and sell the thing.
And it's just like it takes this transition from being this intimate, really real feeling thing to us talking about it like it's a product. And it's a very strange shift, but I'm really trying to hold onto the humanness of it all and kind of just like, let that be what we talk about because it's so exciting to be able to talk about it.
So it doesn't feel like a press tour the way it has maybe when I was doing it for music or something like that, because it feels, I don't know, it feels different for a million reasons. I don't know.
Because you know what we kept saying when we shot it was like, it just feels like we're shooting a little indie. A little student film.
A student film. Right.
Like all of a sudden there's like a mark. Yes.
I'm stepping on tape to do Wicked. Like it's never been done like this before and yet we're committing it.
Yeah, that wall broke when there was like a man on a hang glider with a camera in the sky. And they sent like Daily Mail on a parachute.
We were like, oh, shit. Oh, wait.
Yeah, so... Oh, sure.
Sure, sure, sure, sure. Oh, it's that.
Yeah. So someone flew in to try to get like footage.
Multiple people. Got a lot.
I think I actually saw it on Twitter. I was like, wait, what? It was like literally from like hundreds of yards away.
Like, I think you could hear you doing your like coloratura. That was one of the rehearsals.
And they were like all the way across the water. There was a little like river, pond thing.
Yeah. And there was a body of water.
I'm big on water. One thing about Ariana, she knows her bodies of water.
This cancer, she knows water. Yes.
And she'll talk about it. Yeah.
I will. Across the way, there was...
We're going to call it a brook. Across the brook.
Over the brook. Yes.
There was a ladder. There was a gay guy in a parachute.
There was a gay guy with a camera. The worst kind.
A flying gay guy with a camera. Bowen, what are you doing about that? Get down from there.
We need you for the shot. Damn it.
I'm kidding. I was doing my fanny coming out of the closet.
But no, it was a guy sending a drone. It was a guy sending a drone up.
Yeah, but my favorite thing about it was like, I was like, I'm easy peasy. I was like, oh, it's, you know, whatever.
If Mark doesn't have a problem with it or John is okay, like, I'm going to just like do my job. I'll ignore it and I'll block it out.
Blinders on, whatever. But like, you know, a lot of people were concerned because it's a big deal, you know, for that to come out before it's supposed to come out.
But no one really cared that much. Did anything about it.
They were like this. What are they going to do exactly? And I was like this.
Yeah. No, totally.
I mean, I think. I heard that there's people and I think I just saw some stuff.
And they were like, oh. Well, from the top, everyone.
And I was like, oh, that's amazing. That's really cool.
I was like, if you don't care, I don't care. Exactly.
Yeah. That's nice.
Yeah. Freeing.
And we love and we bless the people whose concern and job it is to like make sure things are like secure and safe and like not seen. But sometimes it is like other people kind of like working you up.
Right. Into thinking that it's a huge problem when you're like when deep down like in your person, you like oh it's fine like I'll just keep doing what I do.
Yeah

and we were all kept very safe and like there was never

any sort of like danger in that way

and there's only so much you can do when we're shooting

on these like massive outdoor

sets. Yeah.
So instead of having

everyone stress about it and become

like anxious like you said and you know

if there wasn't anything that we could do

we just started to have fun with it. Like when the drones would

come me and the munchkins would be like hello and then I started like taking my wand and being like, okay, that's enough. Like go away.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Trying to make it fun.
But you know, it's crazy. When did this happen? Like when did you guys know it was friendship and not just like a colleague I enjoy? I mean, I was so, so over the moon, excited that you were going to be able to do it.
I called Lauren. You did.
You got on the phone. Did you know about this? I knew about this.
Is that okay that I talk about this? No reveal. It's almost like you're comfortable.
Well, because I knew that it was a huge, massive ask. Ask.
And also probably an impossible one. And I didn't have anything, any sort of resolution to pitch him.
But I just called him and I was like, Hi Lauren! Oh my goodness! How are you? And he was like, Hello Oriol. What's going on? And I was like, Is there any way? Is there any way? Scoop the doll.
That was the most nervous I've ever been. But, you know, yeah, we made it work.
He made it work. You made it work.
You exhausted yourself and worked yourself to the bone. Yes.
It's the only time that I've ever pulled like a pouty face in front of him to be like I really want to do this. And then he was like, okay.
Okay, we'll do that again because it was cute as fuck. Show them what you did.
I was like, I really want to do this. And then I did.
I basically did that. It was really tough what you put yourself through.
Yes, but no regrets. You were amazing.
Zero regrets. And I think the answer to the question is the minute you got there.
Yeah. I was just kind of like, oh my goodness.
I hope that he is having the same experience that I'm having. Because I really want to be friends.
You know what I mean? It was a star shower when I saw you, when we met for the first time. The stars exploded.
The stars exploded. It was at Leavesden.
We were doing rehearsals. Yes.
And then I remember I was in my little room. I was reading a book.
And then you came in and… Barged in. No, it was so perfect.
I was too excited. No, you weren't.
I love it. Cynthia came in and gave me Greathers.
And so fucking sweet. I'll never forget it.
And then you came in and then like it was like I just like it was a meteor shower around you. And I was like, oh, this is so fun.
I think the moment that it was like friends, I think, was when we watched Mommy Dearest together and then VHS. Yes.
Ari loves, you guys don't totally line on this, but Ari is a huge horror freak. Oh, you're a horror freak.
I am. The way you said that, Ari is a huge horror freak.
Does that sound bad? No. Oh, great.
I've heard a lot worse. But yeah, no, that's lovely.
Thank you. You're a horror freak.
Kindness. A massive kindness.
Thank you. What's your horror pick? What's the best horror film? I don't know.
I really like What? What are you giving? You loved VHS and I'm just thinking because I watched Smile last night alone in my apartment. Smile 2 or 1? Smile 1 because I want to see Smile 2 and Smile 1.
I would go tonight. Let's go as soon as we can.
And how did you feel? It was disturbing. It's a good one.
It's a really good one. I do.
Sosi Bacon. Love Sosi.
She is a talent. She's a talent.
But God, that ending is crazy. It's a lot.
Yeah. It's a lot.
But I love that. I love that.
I love heart. Wait, apparently.
Well, because apparently Smile 2 also ends in a way that you're like. Yeah, let's go.
Let's go. You don't like though.
I get really anxious, upset, scared, freaked out, frustrated. I got you.
You got me. You're going to protect me out there.
You know what? You know what I do do, though? What? Haunted house. And we just did the sickest.
Oh, my God. Talk about this.
We were truly in the woods in Pennsylvania. Where in Pennsylvania? The Poconos.
Oh, my gosh. Okay.
Yeah. So Sudi Bowen and I went just went just to like get a little fall moment.
Right. It was like an unassuming haunted house.
Like, it's like, oh, this is like in the middle of nowhere. It's not going to be like budget.
No, but those are the ones. Those are the ones.
Those are the ones. Those are the ones.
Because there wasn't that many people there, which meant the groups, when you're traveling through, were small. It's not like Halloween Horror Nights where it's like 30,000 people are there.
And you've just signed sign waivers and stuff. See, we didn't sign a waiver.
That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying.
When there's no waivers, all bets are off. It's going to be scary.
Usually though, if they touch you, you're supposed to have signed a waiver. We were getting really harangued by these people and I loved every second of it.
But that's what I'm saying. There's no waiver in place.
No. So they really can.
So they can't. Wild West.
The wild Poconos. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
We were in the wild Poconos at the craziest haunted house you can think of. I want to go now.
It was, what, 40 minutes long? How long was it? I swear to God. Oh, no breaks? No breaks.
No breaks. Relentless horror.
How do you feel about that? How much space did that take up? It was a big footprint. Was it like a two mile extravaganza? Yeah, it was a big, big footprint, like a compound, basically.
It was, we stayed at this resort and like the guys, like as they bring you in, they're like, okay guys, so it's a bunch of actors, but like, they're just doing their job. These people work in the kitchen at the resort.
They said like, these people work in the kitchen, so it's like low, so we were like, okay, so it's low stakes. Not at all.
It was insane. Well, they're letting it out.
They're letting it out. They're letting it out.
Oh, the screams were not safe. Right.
Let's just say they came from here. Yeah.
Like, it was, like, a woman flying out of a corner. Like, what did— You can do it.
It was— I'll do it. It was like this.
It was like, get out! I me out! I love screaming. I love screaming.
That's divine. The only way you can respond to that is with a scream at that level yourself.
So we were just like, ah! Right. I love when you scream so much.
How do you feel as a professional celebrated vocalist? Oh, wow. Sure.
What is your... Sure.
Thank you. Is this the first time you've been told? That is...
I needed that. Yeah.
What is your opinion on screaming? Because some people, it's devices. How do you scream? Oh! Oh! Like that.
Like that. Wait.
For that to have happened in the second... Wait.
By the way, we saw how she screamed. And it's like this.
Oh! It was giving the soft palate. I'm so sorry.
Yes. Look at her.
She cleans up her own iced coffee. Look at her.
Ariana Grande, everybody. Did we get that? Kiss my ass.
Kiss my ass. Fuck up.
Oh, I loved getting that look from her. Oh my gosh.
She whizzed. Wait, what is your opinion on screaming? Yeah, how do you scream? You know, listen.
You're at Halloween Horror Nights and something... She kind of did it.
No, that's not my... That's not my...
That's not that. I think it's like...
You don't have to do it. I'm sorry.
I'd like to. I'd like to.
I'd like to. Please, thank you.
No, I'd like to. We're going to.
No, I don't know. I think it's like...
You don't have to do it. I'm sorry.
I'd like to. I'd like to.
Please. Thank you.
No, I'd like to. No, I don't know.
I think it depends on the context. But screaming is weird because sometimes I guess I subconsciously scream in a healthy way.
Because sometimes after I scream, there were several scenes in Wicked where there's lots of screaming. And I was like, oh my, I love screaming.
But afterwards I felt like warmed up or something. So maybe I subconsciously scream healthily.
But I actually don't know that I intentionally, yeah. I mean like there are ways to do it, but I don't think it's something I choose when in fear.
Totally. Does this inspire or motivate you to do a horror movie? Well, you know, it depends on the context.
It depends on the script. Yes.
I'm not like a gore for the sake of gore person. Totally.
And I also like, I don't know, I would want to do a great job. I'd want to do an incredible job.
So it really depends. If I could lend myself to the character in a way that I felt would be really purposeful and great, then sure.
For a dream project. But I like horror that is thoughtful.
Yeah, thoughtful. Not just blood for fun.
Totally. What would you categorize VHS? Blood for fun.
What would you categorize VHS as? Oof. I mean...
No, we don't have to talk about it. It's actually a really rough movie.
Why did I make you watch that? Because you were being a good friend and I was going through a hard time. But that's like not the thing to watch when you're going through a hard time.
Absolutely it is. It's so anxious-making.
It was cathartic. Did you feel better afterwards? You sure weren't thinking about whatever you came there thinking about.
Period. And also we did actually...
It's really scary. We didn't enjoy...
Not that we didn't enjoy the whole thing, but we did not stick with it because at a certain point, Ari goes- I've never seen the whole thing. Yeah.
I've never seen the whole thing. Do you turn movies off before they're over a lot? No, just VHS.
Yeah. No, because it's a little vignette.
It's vignettes. It's vignettes.
And I love the first vignette because this fierce goblin woman rips seven dicks off and flies into the sky. Fierce goblin woman.
She's just like, it's really cool. And the face splits and she's gorgeous and cool and like kills.
Are you going to see The Substance? I am going to see The Substance. I'm dying to see it.
Yeah, I heard it's incredible. Everyone I'm talking to that's seeing it is like, I can't stop thinking about it.
I need to see it. I'm really excited to see it.
October 31st on Mubi. But that's not my favorite horror

film. I feel like

that's going to lead people to think I really

I don't know. Would you like to

have a favorite? Would I like to address

this problem? What's your favorite horror

film? I'm not a huge

I don't know it too well. I'm not very literate

but I think I'm going to say

oh god

recently I really did love

Oh are you going to say

No no not The Hills Have Eyes

Thank you. But I think I'm going to say, oh, God, recently I really did love.
Oh, are you going to say what? No, no, not The Hills Have Eyes. No, girl, please.
No way. Not that.
No. The one that was, it was like the demon came out of her head.
The one that was on HBO Max. Oh, oh, oh.
You know what I'm saying? Malignant? Yes, Malignant. Malignant.
Malignant. Exactly.
Because didn't you love Malignant? I didn't see Malignant. Joel loved Malignant.
Joel loved Malignant. Malignant.
What was the other one? That's such a joyfully chaotic scene. Totally.
It's crazy. See, I appreciate complete insanity.
Back when I was watching them, like if it would get completely absurd, like I loved Saw, the first Saw. Right, because it's so brilliant.
It's brilliant. The ending, the way it comes together in the montage, I was like, oh my God, I didn't know I was watching art the whole time.
I can endure that much gore if it's that smart. If it pays off.
If it's that smart. Yes.
I love it so much. Yeah.
Just to switch gears, I really have to apologize to you in person. For what? I opened my mouth up too much when we kissed on SNL.
You absolutely did. I was shaking with laughter.
No, no, no, no, no. Not in a bad way.

I'm so sorry. Not in a bad way.

In just like a disarming way.

Because you know what?

The chemistry was so good.

Oh my gosh.

Thank you.

I mean, it comes from a real place.

I know it does.

But I kissed you too much.

You know what?

That's okay.

No, it's not.

We were really dropped in.

And you were thinking about that?

We were dropped in.

We were dropped in.

We were dropped in.

And it felt like what these people needed at that time. It felt like what these characters It was motivated.
Required. Yeah.
A little open mouth. I'm all for it.
I just... Should we talk about like how we arrived because there was not a kiss originally.
Right, no, there wasn't a kiss originally. Whose idea was it? Well, here's the thing.
Go ahead. No, you go.
You go. You go.
No, I mean, I, when we rehearsed it, a little, I don't know. Something went on.
Yeah, in my head. And I was like, I didn't say anything because I was like, oh, everyone's going to think I'm absolutely insane and too comfortable.
But I was like, oh, how funny would it be if we kissed at the end? Yeah. And then Bowen texts me a few hours later.
I was like, it's totally fine. This is way too crazy.
But we were talking and thought it would be so funny if we kissed at the end. And I was like, wow.
What if we kiss? Yeah, I was like, wow, I was thinking that. I'm so sorry.
And you were immediately on board. Yes.
So do you rehearse it? Do you do it in dress? Or like, what's, because I always feel like

with rehearsing a kissing thing,

it's,

I've only had to do it a few times,

but it's like,

the rehearsal of it

is like,

are we doing it?

It's so uncomfortable.

Are we doing an version of it?

Right.

Like,

what is it?

Yeah,

it's like,

shit,

are we,

are we doing it for real this time?

Yeah,

yeah,

yeah.

Are we kissing this time?

I know.

So what was it?

We kissed in the dress rehearsal.

We kissed in the dress rehearsal,

but in the,

and I will admit,

We had a very grown-up

conversation about it.

We said,

we doing it or not?

We did have a grown-up conversation

just like that.

She came out a little bit

this way.

We doing it or not?

Sorry,

just talking about her.

She comes out sometimes.

Yeah,

it was Joan.

Well,

are we doing it or not?

Well,

I also have to apologize.

I think in the grand scheme of things,

I was maybe a little over-eager

because in the run-through

on Saturday,

so on Saturdays

in the afternoons,

Thank you. I also have to apologize.
I think in the grand scheme of things, I was maybe a little over eager because in the run through on Saturday,

so on Saturdays in the afternoons,

I go, I go.

Looking good.

I was like, so should we do it?

I didn't say, do you want to do it for run through? I said, I phrased it in like a leading way of like,

should we?

And you were like,

shall we kiss? No, I feel like, well, because there was, we talked about maybe waiting till the real thing just to like wing it and see how it was. It was like, let it be on the live, you know? But then we were like, no, let's be adults.
Let's rehearse it. Just so we know how it feels and not have that surprise on live television.
And so your take on it. And just talk to me.
Yeah, absolutely. So his mouth was a little too open.
No, no, no. That came from him, not from me.
But you said you absolutely did open your mouth a little. It was absolutely too open.
No, I'm kidding. It was a little too open, but chemistry.
But for the characters, I think it was perfectly open.

I would agree.

I was watching it and I'm thinking to myself. I did start shaking, giggling.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, you got it.

Yeah, absolutely.

I broke.

I was like.

You're like, what is this gay guy doing?

Yeah, you're with him.

It seemed incredibly purposeful and motivated.

Good.

And it felt incredible.

As long as that's how it felt for the audience.

Yes.

It's all good here.

Have you ever told Ari?

And no beef here.

And no beef here.

It's official.

I'm happy we put it to bed.

Thank you.

Me too.

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Every style, every home. Wait, can we quickly brief about how SNL was for you? Because that was a top tier, A-plus, all-time, perfect episode.
Thank you. It really was.
Thank you. I had the time of my life.
I would have done it right after we finished at 1am again. Yeah.
Like I really love being there. I love every single person there.
Like I just had the loveliest best time with everyone. And I love laughing.
I love comedy. I love bits.
You're so good at it. it thank you and also you can tell it leads from a joy that you have to do it and like a motivation to like work hard and get it right and I also can't believe you've only hosted twice you give the energy of someone that's been there again and again it throws back to like how good JT was at the show back in the day of, coming in.
Like, what do you think it is that prepares you to do something like Saturday Night Live so well? Oh, my gosh. I don't know.
I mean, that's really nice. I think I find like a comfortability and getting to know everyone.
I love getting to know people when I come to a place. I want to like befriend everyone and be open.
And when you're meeting all the writers and collaborating with everyone, everyone is super just kind of open and talk about where you can go, like trying things and whatever. It just is a really safe and fun experience.
I don't know. It's like constant, but it's the best and it's so much fun.
And I think I just love comedy. So maybe that is like why I was so excited to go and I felt very excited.
I think when it comes to doing big, exciting things, sometimes, you know, it can become like a scary daunting thing but if you

hold on to excitement

and gratitude and let that like fuel the whole

experience it can really change the tone of

everything it's something I like learned

in my

late 20s but no I don't

know it's just it felt really fun

the return to Saturn brought joy

it brought comfort

texting with Bowen constantly

having a literal best friend

there and in the weeks leading up, I felt like I was bothering you because I was— No way. It's my turn to apologize now.
I'm not sure you look on your phone at Ariana Grande. No, I felt like I was blowing you up because I couldn't stop, like, texting insane, like, ideas for bits and, like, silly, silly things.
And I was showing you up because I couldn't stop like texting insane like ideas for bits and like silly, silly things. And I was just so excited to get there.
Yeah. So maybe that's why.
I think when you're excited about work. You're excited about the people.
Yeah. And your work.
Yeah. It shows.
I don't know. It's a team.
Yeah. Almost like it's like it's like and with Wicked too.
And I was just going to like posit that maybe like when you get the audition for Galinda, right. That has to be a thing where you're like, holy fuck.
Like it's something I've thought about for a very long time. Like it's one of those roles that's going to be someone's going to get it and it's going to feel like, yes, incredible that person.
But like a little part of you is like, oh God. And so when you get that audition, I wonder, is it all just like joy? And like, how do you approach the comedy of something that's so iconically done and like you respect, but you bring yourself to it because you do do that? Yes.
Thank you. I think it's kind of like it was one of the most important parts to me was finding that balance between like honoring the iconic Glinda that we have had on our on the soundtrack for 21 years and the role that was like written really by Winnie Holtzman and Kristen Chenoweth like you know honoring what made it so iconic which is like the original material and you know people while also kind of like bringing myself to it and And it's interesting because knowing something and being a fan of something for such a long time is very different than having to become it and sort of take it on.
So I don't know. I mean, a lot of just like trying and playing and reading the script a hundred times fully through even before the audition, like not the movie one, the Broadway

one. So that sort of, you know, choices of my own could come through and finding new truths to little beats and moments that play differently on stage because this isn't the stage show.
And finding that balance was, of course, the most important thing because I know as a fan of it, how important it is to walk that line.

Yeah.

And that's really all you can do is the homework and also trial and play. I have my amazing acting coach, Nancy Banks, you know, we, we did a lot of, um, playing and grounding my vocal placement and even finding like, okay, like what inflection, how far do we

want to go with it? And older vocal versus younger Glinda vocals. And what's the tonal shift when

she's young versus when she's old. And, um, you know, incredible work in that regard too.
Like,

I have to say my, one of my favorite things about the movie, just holistically. And I think it's so

funny that you guys didn't chemistry test because the chemistry between you two is just nuts. And one of my favorite things about a vocal choice in that movie is that Cynthia's like singing her whole part very clean until you get that note.
And it has so much gut in it. Well, it is a war cry.
Yes. And that like ends it and you know that everything has changed in the way that note is sung.
And that intentionality. Is just brilliant.
Yeah. It's so beautiful.
Yeah. I was in the room.
I got to be there. When she actually like was doing it, like you mean the studio? Yeah, to hear her sing Defying Gravity.
I mean, I was there when she did the rehearsal tracks. Yeah.
But, you know, I was also on set when she was flying above me singing. Defying Gravity.
You know? You had to be there to witness it. And also just like, this is not a spoiler, but it does cut to Galinda pretty frequently during that moment.
Yeah. And I think the way, because you have an impossible thing to do in that moment, which is just to like internally project that outward as everything in your world and your circumstances changing.
Like even hearing you just talk about the prep and the consideration that went into this, like you have the most expansive knowledge of this character and like, like, thank God it's you because you're, like, rising to every occasion with it. Like, you rose to the audition.
Thank you. Obviously, in such a storied way.
Like, I love the lore behind it now that people know about. And I just know.
Yeah. It's fucking amazing.
You know, the movie is, like, about you forget sometimes, like, especially seeing it now in the way that you guys have like made it brand new. Like you really remember what it's about.
And it's about like speaking truth to power and how hard that is. Yeah.
And what your character is going through, what Glinda is going through at the end of at least this movie is she's not able to be strong enough yet to really be a face of like dissent and rebellion like she's seeing a truth and she's it's like the journey that you have to go through there of like I know what's right but I'm just not there it's also just like a different I mean yes but also there's a different version of that which is that she is strong enough to know that she will never choose that because she can't. She doesn't have the tools and she knows what is so interesting, important to her.
Yes. And it's like, it's not that she's not ready to do that.
It's just that she's not a person who's going to do that. And having the strength to know that the past, oh my God, annoying.
I'm so sorry. No, I'm so curious about what you're experiencing.
No, it's just like emotional because it's like, of course it's acting and I'm not going to, you know, whatever. We hit our marks and we do our thing and we sing our songs and we do what we're supposed to do.
But it really felt so real. And it feels how it feels in real life when you really love someone, but the paths that you need to take for your own truth and life and who you are, it's like you can't actually, you can't actually continue growing together.
You're growing apart and you can still love that person so much and acknowledge that that's going to be best for them, but it's not going to be best for me. So I do have to not self-abandon in this moment and I have to stay where I am.
And I want you to go there, but I can't join you. So I think it's certainty.
I think she's really sure in that moment. And I think that that's strength.
Yeah. I don't think that it's that she's not strong enough to go.
I think that she's strong enough to not go. Right.
Because there were, this is not to switch gears, but like there were so many moments. There was one moment.
I think it was during the I've been through. I've been through.
It was during the I've been through scene where like we were just like ad-libbing and I like, I forgot what I pitched you, but I was like, okay, maybe we do a dance from school. And I don't know, I pitched you a line and then you looked me in the eyes and this was done with such love and care and respect.
Wait, what was it? I pitched you a stupid fucking line of like, we do an accent or something. And then you look me dead in the eyes and you go, I'm not going to do that.
Did I really? It was so funny. We were dying laughing.
Cause I was like, Oh, of course I was like, it's like, this is me playing too much with my friend. I was like, she's playing Galinda in the Wicked movie.
I can't tell her, I can't tell her to do bits. Well, you can.
Yes, you can. No, but literally.

We always tell each other to do bits.

We always did that.

But at that point, it was like, you know, four months in.

Do you remember the strawberry bush?

The strawberry bush.

That shit broke me.

And John can't find it.

But I've been anxious to see it forever.

So in the scene when it's Dilliman's classroom and Dilliman's giving the lecture about like the history and like what happened and food grew scarce right food food grew scarce and people were angry and then what what's the line like what do people people were looking for and she's like something to someone to blame yeah someone to and then something to whatever but there's one about food there's one about so yes oh yeah yeah yeah so he's like the great famine occurred and um and people and people wanted to And people were very angry. People were looking for something to.
People were looking for, and what do angry people look for? And then Elphaba says, someone to blame. But then on our coverage, on our coverage, it was a three shot of me, Bronwyn, and you.
We did an ad lib. It was like, and because he mentions the famine.
And then what do angry people do? What do angry people try to find? I'm butchering this. It's terrible.
And then I go, wait, I'm ruining this. Literally, it's that set up.
He said like a strawberry bush. And I smacked him laughing.
I literally, I took my paper and I smacked him with it. It was so good.
I wish it were somewhere. We have to find it, John.
The strawberry bush was incredible and also so was when Nessa flies up in the sky. That's my scream.
I know that's your scream. That's your scream.
And everything is flying around and things are falling and the thing falls on the ground. And what are you doing? And then I just fall out.
Literally, I'm like, I know how you scream. It was the best time.
It's so powerful. It's so stupid.
It was the best thing ever. Before we ask you the question that is the central question of this podcast, I also want to say one other thing, which is that this scene of the year for me is dancing through life when she comes in to the Aztas Ballroom.
And that moment, wow. Can you talk about shooting that? Yeah.
Like, what was that experience? Well, I mean, I love, first of all, I love the little shot of her peeking around the corner, like, with her little hat and she's so excited and whatever. But it's just, it's hard to describe because how it feels to watch, picture that a solid 12 hours of that.
Four days or something. Yes.
That particular section, the main bulk of it was like one and a half days, but it was like one and a half days of utter pin drop silence. And every single person in the room was absolutely just right there with Cynthia and kind of holding a very warm space, you know, for how much she was giving the whole time.
And it's such an isolating and painful scene, you know? And even if you're acting, you know, it's just like, it's such a heartbreaking feeling. And I had such flutters and butterflies that whole day.
And it's just like holding space for her. And then having this guilt and this realization that I'm responsible for this and just sort of like looking at a friend and trying to course correct it just so much.
It was a really intense day and I feel the same feelings when I watch it back that I did in the room on the day. It's so emotional to watch.
Yeah. It was, it was a really intense day and she's so beautiful in it.
And I just remember at the end of like the 12th hour, me and Mark and John all just like took her aside and we were like, yeah, like, and, um, yeah, it was just a very, very, very powerful, emotional day. And she did such beautiful work and everyone just held the safest of spaces for her.
And yeah, I like feel it when I watch it back. Certain scenes, like when they start happening, my body has like a physical reaction.
When she peeks around that corner, I like get anxious for what I know is going to happen because I know how it felt on the day and I think that's a sign of what beautiful work was done because I feel like when you watch it back you feel how it felt in the room and it's a wonderful reminder that you were so dropped in and present in that span of time which was a very long time and I say four days because it was like with all Yaz does stuff. Oh yes, yes.
With the dancing and stuff. I'm talking about this part.
I thought we were talking about that part. The loneliness that Cynthia is going through of I'm gonna, you know, have this dancing moment.
And everyone's watching her being like, what's happening? And it's your realization that like this is human being who I've hurt. And now I'm going to show up for her.
And the really wordless connection that you guys foster in that moment is so beautiful. And everyone's going to love the movie so much, obviously.
She's so, so, so, so, so unfathomably spectacular in this film. It's so great.
The choreography, I actually, even though we rehearsed it like once or twice before that day, said I never learned it. Like I didn't want to remember it because I just literally wanted to be like following her hands and like letting her lead the way because I felt like the more awkward it looks on Glinda,

like the more beautiful it can be.

You know,

we're both just like little like wild deer greeting each other and trying to

figure out how to speak the same language.

And it's so beautifully awkward and I love it very much.

It's very successful.

I love her very much.

And yeah, it's a ride, this movie.

Going from that into popular is such a ride.

And then back again and then back again.

And, you know, it's just like, it's a wild ride.

Popular is everything.

Everything you want it to be.

God, you're so fucking good.

Thank you.

Wait, can I just share one more of my favorite memories from the Oz Dust Ballroom?

Yes.

Other than the fun stuff that we did, the dancing and everything in the Oz Dust,

we had so much fun in the Oz Dust Ballroom.

We've been... Thank you.
Wait, can I just share one more of my favorite memories from the OzDust Ballroom? Yes. Other than the fun stuff that we did, the dancing and everything in the OzDust, we had so much fun in the OzDust Ballroom.
It really was like a week. It really was a week.
It was a week, yeah. Yeah.
But they gave us these universal iPhones for behind-the-scenes stuff. It was actually only one, and I think you and Bronwyn had it for that week.
Bronwyn and I had it for a day, yeah, for that whole week. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I just remember the vibe that day and Bronwyn and you both being like, not, no, not the time. Because we were like, you know, like this is intense shit.
And everyone's like, okay, we're at the Oslo's ballroom. The dance is happening.
Like, no, we're not. It's not the day, actually, for that.
What's up, guys? This is Bowen Yang, and I'm so excited because today is the day. Hi, day 14.
We're here at the Osda's Ballroom. We're about to group bully Cynthia Erivo for three days straight.
I was like, are you kidding me? They were like, are you guys getting fun stuff? And it was like, no, no, no. Not today, in fact.
Not today. It was like universal social media people.
So sweet. Lovely, doing their job.
Being so accommodating. I just remember you and Bronwyn being like, not right now.
Because it also is a little bit your character's like, because your character doesn't get it. And by the way, you play a really good natural bully.
You really do. Can I say, your coverage in the Onsets, I remember I got to sit behind the monitor and watch you and Bronwyn experience that scene and it was just so beautiful you two are so brilliantly hilarious but also just everything was so palpable the shift it was so funny it.
I have an iPhone video of that whole take if you'd like it. Oh, my God.
Because you had the iPhone? I sure do. That wasn't the universal iPhone.
This is my personal one. I filmed everything that happened in the whole two years.
Well, that was against the rules. I understand.
But I'm a very honest thief. He sent me some videos from the set.
Yeah. Don't tell.
Can I say? Yeah, yeah. Well, it's over now.
What are they going to do? Edit you out? Oh, I hope not. I perish the thought.

Not to place myself in that moment, in that

scene, that very intense scene, but like

I kind of feel a degree of that same thing

where I watched it back and I was like, God,

I feel like absolute shit because even

in doing it, because acting is acting, whatever,

but even in like bullying

Cynthia throughout this movie, like there were

so many times where I went up to her and I was like,

I'm so sorry.

This feels so rotted in my soul to treat you this way.

Right.

I think it's just a testament to like the way she's being so completely raw

and beautiful and vulnerable in every frame of this.

And God, you're both,

you couldn't ask for two better people to do this.

That's beautiful.

Let's ask you the question. Everybody has been there.
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Ariana Grande. Okay, sorry.
What is the... Why are you apologizing? Because I'm dilly-dilly.
I'm taking us miles back. I know.
I still have so much more to say about everything. We'll talk about it.
We gotta talk about Thigman. Sorry, what's the one question? The one question we have to ask you is what was the culture that made you say culture was for you? If you can look back in your life and you think Ari Grande became Ari Grande as a result of this influence, this thing in pop culture, this moment, whatever it is.
Can you speak on that? Yeah. I mean, I think musical theater.
Yeah. Like I think Sherry Renee Scott is my answer.
I love that answer. Did you see Aida? I did.
I mean, I loved the soundtrack. I was really little.
I don't think I actually saw it. I saw it with Toni Braxton.
Oh, my God. Work.
Can you believe? No, but I saw her in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. And I remember being like, that's life changing to see.

She's the best in the world.

Yeah.

You look at someone doing musical theater at a level like that and you're like, oh, well, I'm watching the most talented person on earth.

Yes.

I mean, her and Kristen and Sutton Foster and just these like ladies who I grew up just listening on repeat and just like my musical theater goddesses, you know? I don't know. Does it feel like, yeah, absolutely.
And I guess my question for you is like, you know, I'm watching Wicked and I had that feeling of like, well, she needs to act more, but then also at the same time, it's like, you are probably the most like just important, gifted, like relevant pop artist. No.
But let me say it because I believe it. And then you're like, does Broadway fit into that? Like, is it something that would make sense for you? And is it in your heart to actually go to the stage and do that? It is my heart.

You know, it is like, I'm

going to say something so

scary. It's going to scare the absolute shit out of

my fans and everyone. But

I love them and they'll deal and we'll be here

forever. I'm always going to make music.
I'm always

going to go on stage. I'm always going to do

pop stuff. I pinky promise.

But I don't think

doing it at the rate that I've been doing it

for the past 10 years is where I see

the next 10 years. I think

Thank you. or that is, you know, and finding a character and putting the pieces there and finding little homes for them there.
And then them coming back and feeding you and teaching you new things through performing the act of being Glinda, whatever, you know, and taking pieces from her back. It really feeds you.
And I think that I would love to in whatever makes sense or whatever roles that we see fit or where I could really do a good job or honor the material. I would really love to because I think it's a lot better for me.
Yeah, I hear you. I'm getting emotional.
But I want you to know, and I've been listening to you all the time, but so many of my favorite songs of yours, I can tell, are unbearable for you to put out there. Like I listened to I won't even say the song title.
I mean, imagine. I mean, like I hated you.
Like I had such an experience and I have my own theories about like what we can't be friends is. But I think the video like is something that spoke to, I know me personally and so many people in such a visceral way.
And there's that moment in the video, which by the way is the video and everyone knows it. So there's that moment where you hesitate in the process of having your memories removed and you're, it's like, I don't want to let go.
I'm actually uneasy. Like maybe my pain is really important.
And if I lose that, like, where am I going next? Like it's scary. And I think that that's such a specific thing to get across, but like has to be painful to literally fixate on the idea of eternal sunshine because the idea is that we want to, we feel this way.
We want to create something called eternal sunshine because we're fixating on wanting to remove those emotions. And yet here we are literally performing them.
And I think that you're so sensitive and such a, you know, what you could say cancer vibes or whatever, but like you're so in tune to your work and you're so giving of yourself that it has to feel fucking exhausting and so if you have other talents and other like interests like i get that i love you back that was such a thoughtful parade of like thoughtfulness i love you thanks i don't yeah yeah i hear you he's good at that he's got the thoughtful parade of thoughtfulness well i mean i i don't know good Stop at talking, Ariana. No, that's not me.
But no, I guess what I'm saying is like,

it's not, I'm, I don't know. Good job at talking, Ariana.
No, that's not me. But no, I guess what I'm saying is like, the thing is, I'm not even asking you a question.
I guess I'm just acknowledging and seeing and I want you to know that as your fan, like, we just want you to feed yourself and like, do what makes you feel good and evolve. I love you.
And you are evolving.

Like in this movie, like I'm telling you like,

now am I going to cry?

Like I just feel like it's so amazing to see someone

do something they were born to do.

Like, and I don't know.

I've always felt like,

especially because you've been such a good sister to my sister.

I just like want you to be happy and I root for you. Oh, my God.
I'm sorry. Man, oh, my God.
Okay. I feel like, I feel, you know, you're just, but this is like what you do.
You're such an available, open, emotional person and I deeply... We're so far away.
That was weird, but thank you for taking the risk. Oh, my God.
By the way I have little arms. You yanked her down.
I think my chair is like cemented to the ground. No, no.
Okay, I'm kidding. That just reminded me of when I did Celebrity Wheel of Fortune with Paula Abdul.
She's so small that she would do the wheel and the wheel would take her. Take her hand in.
Take her hand in. So it was like she's the middle and like, I'm here, like this is Paula.
She goes, all right, here we go. And I'm like, I threw away and like her leg went up.
She was a good sport about it. She was a good sport about it.
Can I just thank you for saying that just because it was so incredibly kind and I really appreciate it and I am going to carry it with me. Art also is what feeds me.
Of course. So in whatever capacity it is, I'll always be doing and creating six different things at once.
You know what I mean? I don't see that going anywhere. I just see it kind of like shifting and becoming a little different.
Right chapters. You know what I mean? I'm thankful to you for positions because that was my fucking fuck album for the pandemic.
And I'll look you in the eyes and say, oh my God. I'm telling you, there's not a better piece.
Like, thank you for R&B pop. Thank you.
Thank you. She can't handle it.
I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
No, I know. But like, yeah.
You really didn't. It was beautiful.
The characters needed it. But yeah, thank you.
Thank you. That's such a funny thing.
The life cycle that album has taken because when it came out, it was kind of like... Bizarre.
It didn't go so well. Did it feel like it came out in a soft way whereas Thank You, Next and Sweet had been such moments? Or do you care about that even? No, no, no, no.
Not even like that. I just mean as far as like what my fans were saying and like as far as whatever.
I feel like in the beginning of the positions of it all, like it kind of was, I got a little, I'm not gonna like use this word as a bully, but you know, you know. Yeah, I hear you.
I just got like a little bit of this is not what we want vibes, I think. And I remember that'm such a sensitive artist this is the point you put art there so that people can tear it apart and do whatever they want with it or celebrate it or whatever I understand I'm very grateful and in acceptance to be here when I preface this I need to preface it with that because I know it comes with being an artist but I also am a cancer and sensitive.
So I just remember that really like put me in a cage of like judging every single piece. I like scrapped so many things that I was like going to put out for it.
And now people are just they love it like it's the best thing I'll ever make. And I'm like, what is that? I'm like, how is that fair? Especially when they they really get worked up in their heads that we're going to get a certain thing and then it's a little different.
But I love them for it and it's okay and it's fine. And it's not mine anymore.
And that's the thing that I also have to say because I am aware. It's like a part of it.
And I'm grateful for the voices and for the passion. I am.
I really am. You release it.
But I'm also a person. Of course.
And so this is what makes you a true realized artist is that you are incredibly emotionally intelligent.

You're, I think, EQ, you're the highest EQ person.

Einstein EQ, period.

That is, wow.

I think that, like, every artist, not every artist, but, like, it kind of is this fun little jewel now on everyone, on every on every artist's like crown where it's like, oh, you put out a body of work that ends up being at the time mischaracterized or misinterpreted. And then over time, it develops the patina and people are like, oh, my God, this is this was always great.
It's strange to watch happen. It's kind of interesting.
but I feel like with what you're saying about being an artist like I mean we've had conversations about this especially when

Eternal Sunshine

came out. We're like, God, this is really, everything is so considered.
And I was even watching you do your makeup video for The Boy's Mind. And I'm like, I don't want it.
This is the stupidest question. But I have to ask you.
Okay. I bet it's not.
No. Because you're so good at makeup, do you have an interest or have you explored drawing? Do you know what I mean? Like you're so dexterous with your, like you're able to, no, no, look at me.
Bowen, I'm not de dexterous what if we had crayons and we're just like could you draw drawing us a picture painting me today he brings out an easel and some oil paint I actually I paint with my dad sometimes. It's like a cute thing with like watercolors and I painted for Cynthia actually, I painted a cute little thing of Munchkinland and it's like the tulips with the yellow brick road up the middle and then there's a little bubble in the sky and there's a green like cloudy behind it and a little tiny little Elfie and the monkeys behind.
So I painted that for her but I don don't have that much time to color or paint. So I don't, but I love to.
And I'm very creative. My dad is like an artist in every way.
Graphic designer, photographer, painter. Yes.
And he's super creative in that way. And I thought, that's so nice.
No one's ever talked to me about painting, but coloring. Right, but I'm saying it makes sense to me.
Like you're so precise with the hand. Coloring's amazing.
I love a coloring book. I love a coloring book, especially when it's a funny concept.
I just bought the one of Oz for Cynthia. Oh, that's great.
And the thing is, what was the way I said that? And the thing is, when you get a wicked coloring book, kind of think like, oh, I know what everything should be. And so then you just do it your own way.
Suddenly, Elphaba is not green. She's purple.
Think about that for once. But my mom recently was like, oh, is that a coloring book? She came over and I was like, I haven't seen one in a long time.
And she self-proclaims, yeah, I haven't seen one of those in a while. But no, she says she's not creative and that she doesn't like things like that, but she loves it.
And I was like, Mommy, you don't need to be, you know, creative. She's a business brilliant person, but I gave her the colored pencils and the coloring book.
And she loved it. But also picture the character from SNL.
And she was coloring so hard. She was like, I love this.
And I was like, mommy. That was based in reality? Oh, yes.
Should we talk about this? Talk about the origin story of that. And this is why you should not apologize for like, you did not text me a bunch before in the lead up.
Like this is, thank God you did because like literally like, well this happened. Two months before the show, before you came on.
It was Labor Day weekend and my brother-in-law Hale's family was visiting and we had a lovely fun game day and it was so fun and funny and sweet and my mom is, by the way, the most generous, kindest, giving person in the entire world. She is like the hostess with the mostest.
You will walk in and there are like a million fruit trays and vegan options. The vegan people being me and Hale only.
But even that, you know, she wants to take everyone everywhere and she's just the best. She's the kindest, most generous person in the entire world.
Competitive. Yeah.
And fiercely protective of her children. I see.
So even if we're playing, you know, charades and whatever, you don't fuck around. So this is what happened.
And I excused myself immediately to send a voice note to Bo. And I said, OK, well, there is something brewing here.
There's something here. Yes, we're playing.
We're playing charades. And and Hill's brother, my brother-in-law's brother, who I love.

They're all so sweet.

They're amazing.

Was like, haha, we're winning vibes.

Like that was the extent of it.

He was like, woohoo, we're ahead.

Throwing it back.

We're ahead.

And my mom goes, tiny dick syndrome, huh?

And I was like this.

Tiny dick syndrome, huh?

Mommy, wait, that's not funny. I funny i was like mom that's intense and harmful that's like in so intense and we all were laughing and of course like he laughed and everyone was laughing but she was like well that's a sign of what that is and i was like mommy this is insane and then i started doing it as a bit for Jesse, Hill's other brother.
And he was like crying tears, tears. And like it lasted the whole day.
So I was like, Bowen, we have to do something with this, please. It's just so silly.
And my jaw dropped. I was like, yeah.
And yeah. And also we have like a very aggressive game playing family too.
I'm like the opposite. So where my mom and Frankie and Hale sit on the spectrum of, I'm an alien in my family a little bit because I'm like, I don't care.
I just want to have fun and I want to be there and I'm here for a good time. Gotcha.
You know, I'm okay. I just want to play the game.
I'm happy to be there. I don't even know half the rules.
I'm just. Winning is not your culture.
It's participation. Being here is a great time.
And I miss everyone when I'm not home. And, you know, this is a great time.
Not for Hale or Frankie or my mom. It is real.
It's a real deal. You're right.
Hale's a real gamer, though. He knows games that no one's ever heard of in the history of the world.
He's like a genius nerd person who loves games. And Frankie can't lose a game.
Mommy can't lose a game. Because you know what? First of all, they can't lose a game.
Ari's vibe on Jackbox is A++++. Oh, I love Jackbox.
We need to shred. Yeah, that's what we need to do.
We need to do that. We need to do.
Jackbox, we need to get J and A. J and A, Josh and A.
See, I see it in my mind. I love them.
I love your whole group. They're the best.
They're the best. They are really, truly are the funniest.
Have you seen fucking Identical Twins? I watched Dix. Or Dix.
We watched Dix. Yeah, we watched Dix together.
I mean, I'm obsessed with them. They're angels from heaven.
Yeah, that's like a truly fun game too because really who cares if you win?

Like it's fun if you win

but it's really more

just about making each other laugh.

Giggles, yeah.

Frankie was about

the points though.

It's always about

the points you drop out.

He is about the points too.

It was so funny.

You know what that might be though?

Because I also am like

I'm the oldest

and I'm a gay son

so there's that little bit thing

of like best little boy

in the world

I'm going to win the game

because like

you know what I'm saying?

That might be a thing because you're not really competitive need to win. No, never.
You're really not. Can we wait? Sorry.
I'm sorry. But speaking of Frankie, can we can we go see Rocky Horror? Yes.
It's still happening, please. How long is it happening? Oh, I don't know.
Well, we'll go tonight. That's it.
You know what? I'm getting tonight. Cabaret.
Oh, my God. I'm seeing Marty in Cab Marty Marty and Cabaret really I'm so jealous I know I saw it in the West End with Jake Shears oh great and it was great and I'm seeing it again I haven't seen it yet in New York I love Cabaret it's one of my favorite shows are you coming to the screening tonight I wasn't told the details so I wasn't playing I would love to I'll tell you the details yeah that's actually gonna be really fun because it's gonna be all the Broadway people

but I wish I could

be coming with you

we wish we could

do both at the same time

I want to see

Marty and Cabaret

they're my favorite MC

really

love that

I cannot wait

what a beautiful person

inside and out

oh absolutely

good vibe

isn't it great

when like

because you're like

a Drag Race fan

yes

you watch every season

I watch almost every

I mean I try to

yeah

I'm a big Drag Race fan

have you been judged

twice or once

twice

Thank you. Because you're like a Drag Race fan.
Yes. You watch every season? I watch almost every.
I mean, I try to. Yeah.
I'm a big Drag Race fan. Have you been judged twice or once? Twice.
Season seven. Because I remember season seven, iconically, that was a really amazing episode.
The first time you were there and they did break free at the end. I wish I remembered more of that experience.
It's okay. You were great.
It was a long time ago. And they did break free and it was Candy Ho versus Mama Who Won.
Mama Who Won. Not Who Won the Show, but Won the Lip Sync.
I'm forgetting her name. Jaden Dior Fierce.
Yes, Jaden Dior Fierce. Yeah, that was crazily the morning after we shot the Bang Bang video.
And I had no sleep and I came straight there and it was like a full 12-hour day. Full day.
It's a surreal thing to me. When we were there, we also had a really good episode.
We had a great episode, but those were long days. Your episode? Oh my God, yeah.
No, it was beautiful. That was fun.
And we got hallucinated by Dua was the lip sync. And we are screaming the whole time.
Well, they cut to us and we are living the fantasy because it was Jasmine Kennedy. Of course.
Like really ripping it up. That was a great, great, great episode.
We'll figure it out. We'll go see it.
Okay, so Marty, wait, hold on. We need to talk about something before we move on to I Don't Think So Honey.
I can't even believe we're going to move on. Why could this? I don't want to move on.
This should go on for six more hours. I know.
Can we do like a little more? Of course. Hold on.
No one has to be anywhere. It's 2.20.
No one has to be anywhere. You sure? No, I'm okay.
This isn't like a press day for you or is it? This is a press day for me, but this is the most important part. What else are you doing? I do have to leave at 3.
That's perfect. Okay, no problem.
You hear that? It's 2.20. If I can leave by 3, we're good.
I'll be completely early and on time. You know what else you need to go see and you need to go see is Sunset Boulevard with New York.
I know. I know.
I mean, that's everything I could want for a person. I love this moment for her so much.
She is so in her element, so dropped in, so beautiful, so fucking talented. Yes.
And I love that. The pictures of her in blood at the stage door, that's me.
That's a mood. That's a mood.
But Nicole, I love watching someone. She's so brilliant.
It's like seeing you in the Wicked movie. It's like when you watch someone, get the opportunity.
That's where they're supposed to be. How beautiful that it's happening.
And I'm telling you right now, I was at the opening night of Sunset Boulevard. I sat next to Candy Burris.
Oh my God. The legend.
Like literally star studded. So many people there like sitting there watching her.
And I thought, wow, she is stepping into destiny right now. She is giving one of those performances.
Everyone will always talk about. And it is, it is amazing.
Yeah. It's beautiful to see even like from afar as a person who hasn't even seen it yet.
I'm like, oh, I know exactly what's coming.

Yeah, we need to talk about Figment.

Oh, we do need to talk about Figment.

So this this is also another moment where I was like, oh, we're supposed to be in each other's lives.

And then I also thought and I did not tell you I was like, you need to meet my friend Matt Rogers.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was actually the moment.

That was the moment.

We need to go to Disney together.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

Which one?

Florida or California?

I'm an Orlando girly.

Okay.

I mean, I'm connected.

Me too.

Me too.

We share that.

Yes.

We share that.

I mean, okay.

And also, it's where the Tower of Terror remains.

100%.

And can you speak on this?

Because this is really important.

Because, you know, this came up with Mariah.

We mentioned you on the Mariah episode. I saw that.
And speak on Tower of Terror. Speak on Disney.
Whoa. Okay.
I want to speak on the Tower of Terror. Yes.
Start there. Because I love, I love, and I respect Guardians of the Galaxy.
Yeah. Of course I do.
I think it's a beautiful, experience. A beautiful thing.
Love that little raccoon. It thing It's impressive It's amazing I'm like a big baby Groot person Really cool I don't remember much about her But I love her And I just think that it is That was a zipper that was not a fart There was a noise down here Which could have gone either way But I have to tell you It had to be called out No, no, no, not a fart.
I'm sorry. There was a noise down here which could have gone either way.
No, but I have to tell you. I'm sorry.
It had to be called out. No, no, no.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry. No, please.
This space is yours. I'm in your home.
No, and you're literally about to like meditate on Tower of Terror. Honestly, I'm glad that happened because something needed to break the tension of what I was feeling inside.
You felt tense? About the Tower of Terror. You're angsty about this because you feel it's an endangered species.
It's not angst. It's dire desperation.
It's like real desperation to protect and preserve what is the Tower of Terror. Yeah, I believe it should be a historical landmark.
Absolutely. And I think it's really important and great that there is the Guardians of the Galaxy ride in California.
I think that's perfect. And, you know, Aurora's Castle, all of that's great.
And I love that that's the first and it's there. Yeah.
When it comes to Florida, when it comes to the Disney in Florida. Don't do it.
First of all, we get Cinderella's castle, which is, you know, also a landmark. She's large and in charge.
Yes, she is. My mom tells us too often that she wants

her ashes sprinkled over

it. And I'm like, Mom,

it's Christmas. Do we have to talk about this

right now? She's like, yeah, you have to make sure

that that happens. And I'm like, Mom, I don't want to

make sure that that happens.

Also, I think there's

actors back there working and stuff. You're going to be sprinkled

on people's heads who are dressed as Tinkerbell waiting

for their cue. Totally.
There's like a hotel room in there. Yeah, absolutely.
There's lots happening back there. I've're going to be sprinkled on people's heads who are dressed as Tinkerbell waiting for their cue.
Totally. There's a hotel room in there.

Yeah, absolutely.

There's lots happening back there.

I've heard it's kind of small.

I've heard what you think the experience of staying in that hotel room.

I've been in there.

Have you?

I've been in there because I performed at the castle one time and I got to change in there,

which was really cool.

And it's really beautiful.

And it feels very real.

Do you have a Club 33 membership?

I don't. But you've been in.
I've been there. Yeah.
I've been through. I've been through.
I've been through. But yeah.
Okay, yeah. Feels a little extreme to me.
Yeah, sure. Do you have that? What, the 30-year wave? Do you have it? I've somehow gotten in like three times.
I can't know. But I am like the kind of mental illness where it's like, I will one day.
Sure. sure like I have a sick disease that no one can figure out what it is where like I will go there something happens to me when I go there if you do it I'll do it okay let's do it I'm in we'll get on the list hey put us on the list yeah whoever the powers that be yeah put us on the list but we have to make that happen yes absolutely keep talking no I just I think it's actually one of the most important things.
It's art. That it's day.
Yeah. Absolutely.
Did you ever tell Ari about when we had to be evacuated? It broke on us. The tower? We were on a metric ton of edible.
What did we do? The Rice Krispie treats. Oh my goodness.
And it broke down? And it broke down not like as you're about to go in. When she goes forward? When she goes forward.
Right. It broke down.
That's so scary. And we were stoned out of our gourd being like yo is this happening? Honestly.
That's not fair. That's not good.
We were between worlds. Right right right, right.
While we were like between worlds. And so what they ended up doing was someone kind of comes in out of the shadows.
Out of the proscenium. No, no.
And goes, you guys need to get up and out. How do they get up? Wait, how do they get in there? Stairs.
Whoa. So I hate an illusion being shattered.
I know. But it was kind of fascinating because they go, you guys need to get up, walk into the Twilight Zone and step out through the exit door.
Oh, no. Take a real elevator down.
I don't want to know where the exit door is. We're not going to tell you, but isn't that crazy? That's really crazy.
I'm so glad that you're safe and that it was fine. We're okay.
I hope one day you experience this. I don't want to know where the exit is.
Oh don't like when anyone breaks down. I mean, like breaking news.
Have you been down there to do the Guardians rollercoaster in Epcot? Amazing. Another piece of art.
That's what it should be. That's close.
That's what it should be. That's incredible.
And the music is different every time. Yes.
And it's just fabulous. When conga plays? Crazy.
Crazy. It goes crazy.
Absolutely. So glad you brought that up because I was going to bring it up.
Oh, we, so you, this was funny. So we go, we ended up going a bunch of times and I was like, God, I wish it was conga.
And they go, they say that it's going to happen in two things and they can put you on the train for conga. And we did it and it was the best.
And then what was it that you wanted? I really wanted Tears for Fears. Everybody wants to rule the world.
Right, right, right, right, right. And we never got it.
They couldn't figure it out from Owen. No problem.
Oh my. Well, we'll have to go again.
We'll have to go again. On set on Wicked, there is a sculpted sort of thing, a gigantic sculpted...
Jeff Goldblum. A thing of Jeff Goldblum as the wizard.
Wait, do you remember when we discovered his head and we didn't know about it? We didn't know. Do you remember that? I remember.
I have pictures of it. Yeah, because we were going for a walk.
We were going for a walk. Talking about life.
And then we happened upon this gigantic face of Jeff Goldblum. Of Jeff Goldblum's face.
And we were like, dear God. Oh my goodness, Jeff.
Basically a two-story tall sculpted face mask of Jeff Goldblum. And we were like, wow, this is crazy.
And then it's in the movie. It serves a purpose.
Yes, it serves a beautiful purpose. But we just had no idea and we were so disarmed by it.
Yes. Figment.
Was this Figment? No, this Figment. But in a way, one day we were on set.
We were on set and we were just like. Talking about our favorite characters.
And you said you love figment. Journey into the imagination.
Yes, because we were like, oh my gosh. Like, oh my gosh.
Oh my gosh. We had said, oh my gosh.
You know who I love? That figment guy. No, get up, girl.
Leave it down. Wait, no.
Here's the actual question I need answered actually right now. If they were to add one of your songs to Guardians of the Galaxy, don't do that because I want it.
Why is it into you? Why is it into you? Can you imagine? I would be gagging. You're like, I would love to ride the ghost in Guardians of the Galaxy version.
Ghost in? No! It's like, I can be needed. I was watching for some reason.
Sometimes as I want to do, I'll watch like old clips of The Voice. Yes.
Would you ever go back and do that again? And do you think you mostly did it because the chair spun So No but it was a perk It was a good perk The theme park thing of this Is so crazy It is really fun You have to Go do it at some point It's really fun. I got so emotionally attached to everyone.
That's my problem.

I can't really do that because I really

get in. I really get in there with

everyone and I love everyone

so much. I love meeting people

and I felt so

invested. And I still do.

I see them all on Instagram. Do you keep in touch

with them? Yes. I mean, not, I've been

busy. I haven't really been in touch with anyone, but I love them and I'm in touch with all on Instagram.
Do you keep in touch with? Yes. I mean, not, I've been busy.
I haven't really been in touch with anyone, but I love them. And I'm in touch with them on Instagram.
Like I like their posts. I see their things.
I see what they're up to. Bella had a baby.
Sasha's putting out solo music. Sasha of Jim and Sasha.
Incredible. And, you know, I mean, like he sent me his project last year and he's so talented.
And so I'm still in touch with some of them.

But I it's just like I get very involved.

Yeah.

And also like for a non-competitive person, like the rest of those judges were really competitive.

Like Kelly is really competitive.

I love her.

I love it.

She's the number one.

She's the best in the world.

Is she the best singer in the world?

She's fucking incredible.

It could be. Kelly Clarkson.
Yeah. it could be a thing.
She's unbelievable. Just wild.
She really is one of the greatest vocalists that there ever has been ever. So were you being like, you know, like young when she was on American Idol? Was that like a trip for you? Like, I wonder like when you meet these people that are like, you know, now your peers.

Right.

Oh, gosh.

Well, it feels probably odd to say. It feels crazy.
You as someone who's like a really reverent, like respecter of these vocal legends, like now to hear them, just to be able to engage with them. Like, how do you approach that? I mean so many things that

have come to be

in my life feel like such a dream. Like, I can't really fathom a lot of things.
You know, even getting to know Imogen Heap. You know? Just kind of meeting her was one of the best things that has ever happened ever.

You know, I was so in shock and all the first time I went to go meet her.

I thought it was being catfished.

Wow.

I didn't really think it was going to be her.

Yeah.

I was really scared.

And then I got kind of like lost in the woods and I was like, this is it.

Yeah.

I'm done.

It was in the woods.

Well, the journey there.

Oh, I see.

I'm not going to like give.

I'm not going to like drop a pin.

It was in the woods.

I'm not going to like drop a location. She said meet me.
In Emi's house. I'm in the Poconos.
No, but it really is a trip. I just feel so deeply grateful because so much of the art that I have loved, I've developed an interesting relationship with artists that I've loved.
You know when they say don't meet your idols, I've had so many positive experiences of that. And I'm so grateful for that, you know? Can I share what the moment was that I got to witness of you meeting Stevie Nicks? Yeah.
It was for promos on Thursday. She had written me a letter a few years ago.
So we had spoken. You'd been in contact.
We had spoken once before, but we had never met. But sorry to interrupt.
No, no, no. And Ari and I were already on the floor just like giggling, being stupid.
And then they bring Stevie on and I just kind of immediately needed to back away. Stevie took Ari's hands and was like, I have to tell you that I loved your video for We Can't Be Friends.
It reminded me of so many people that I have come across in my life. Probably brought Lindsey Buckingham up.
Sure, totally. And like, for whatever the song means, like for her to...
That was such a surreal moment. I couldn't believe it.
I couldn't believe anything. She's so kind.
So kind. And so cool and so beautiful.
I can't really get over what that was like, spending those few days together and sharing the space with her. Just such a warm, beautiful, good witch in every sense.
You know, just overly generous, like overly friendly, overly kind. And I don't know.
I feel like I love meeting people and talking, but sometimes I can go and overstay my welcome. I feel it.
And I felt like I wasn't doing that. She just wanted to keep going with me.
And I was like, oh my goodness, we're both going and going and going. And she's such a just a sweet, kind, kind energy.
And I just, I couldn't wrap my head around it. What she's offering right now, too, with this new song.
Like I was watching an interview with her a couple days ago. And, you know, the song is about like women like acting right now.
And like, you know, us voting and fighting the fight. Like and really making sure that we don't lose rights.
And but she was really talking about it in a way of like service. She said this line in this interview where she was like, I was given this gift and I'm doing my job.
She's like, I'm out here. And you get the sense that it's just like, you know, she didn't have to do Saturday Night Live.
You know what I mean? I would imagine that's a pretty daunting thing to be asked. And she spoke on how nervous she she was but you get the sense that she's like

no, I'm being given this

opportunity, I have this to offer

and she kept saying like, you know, I tell a good

story so I'm going to go out there and tell the story

and it was just like

there was like a selfless artist

mentality that she so clearly had

and has had. There's work to be done and I'm going to

do it. She's unbelievable.

There's a serviceability

in what she does that she knows about.

She's like, I'm going to like

Thank you. and has had.
There's work to be done and I'm gonna do it. Yeah.
She's unbelievable. Yeah.
There's a serviceability in what she does that she knows about. You know, she's like, I'm gonna like be the vehicle for this message.
That's, God, I just love her. I loved seeing you guys together.
That was really fun. It felt really special.
Yeah. The BTS, because I remember we got to be on the floor for Edge of 17.
And so there was a moment where for some some reason, they had to hold it back for a second. Like, I guess maybe some commercial was going too long or whatever.
There was a moment. But I was watching you guys interact with each other and, like, have a moment of play in that moment.
And I was like, this is very, it's like obviously a cool live TV moment, like, where they get to count down a few different times. But just watching you guys together was a really fun BTS moment.
It was really sweet. We both kind of looked at each other and we were like yeah.
And it was very sweet and you know when live things like that are happening everyone gets a little like nervous and we felt like the audience get a little tense too so we started doing like a bit with them too. It was really fun.
You could play her in a biopic. Oh.
Why? If that not to be like that should happen in the way that you can cut it if you want but you could. Oh my goodness.
There are so many girlies that would be perfect for that. Well I'm just saying.
Maybe one of the girlies. Stevie should play Stevie.
Oh there you go. No one can do Stevie better.
It's like when Fantasia played herself Absolutely Remember that? It was years ago Fantasia played herself in her own biopic for Lifetime Yes Genius Should happen more Do you remember when Cher played everyone in West Side Story? Yeah Iconic Fabulous You can pull that off That's really fun Yeah I want to what that meeting was. You think it was just one meeting? Yeah, yes.
Yeah, I do. Everybody has been there.
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All episodes of Mid-Century Modern are now streaming on Hulu. With our final 20 minutes, let's cross into I Don't Think So Honey because I Don't Think So Honey always provokes conversation and I want to leave room for it so I don't think so honey is our 60 second segment where we all rant rail and rave against something in culture that just bothers us and we it's a cathartic moment and we're all going to be made better for it I have something that I'd like to do okay I don't really have like I haven't planned anything out I just have my emotions on this thing okay that's good this is Matt Rogers I Matt Rogers.
I don't think so, honey. His time starts now.
I don't think so, honey. Calamari.
Can I ask you a genuine question? Who actually cares? I do. You actually care about calamari.
You think that you... I don't think so, honey, that it's ever different one place to the other.
Don't get me wrong. It's a really good appetizer.
There's no versatility. And if you get into being versatile with your calamari, what's going to happen is it's not fried then it's just like what boiled calamari sure i'm sorry but i'm vegan it's it's boring it's boring the things we can do with other appetizers look at wings look at my girl wings oh you can have her lemon pepper you can have her buffalo you can have her barbecue and i've only listed three i have time to list the rest.
But what I'm saying is the versatility. Now, I hear you at home.
Matt, what about buffalo calamari? You have a point. 15 seconds.
But you don't see it. You don't hear about it.
Calamari feels like something that's on the table constantly. And I'm like, that's great.
But are we just not using our imaginations? Put Brussels sprouts on the table as an appetizer. I'm saying it.
But he is nodding. And I want to say, let's get more creative with appetizers.
Seafood restaurants. I'm looking at you like, come on, let's get the raw bar together.
That's quite enough. That's one minute.
I just feel, I don't think anyone agrees with me. I agree.
I don't think, I mean, but I also have never had it. I don't want to eat them.
You don't want to eat them. I don't want to to eat them I think it's better for the world yeah no I hear that deeply but to each their own to each their own because you're right it is better for the world I mean when Natalie Portman came out with that documentary that was like did you ever watch her doc no eating animals eating animals it was what it was called and it was so crazy to watch her do press for it because she was like listen my documentary does talk about how it's much much better for the world for us to not do it.
But I'm not telling you not to. I'm just here with my documentary.
Yeah. And like, watch it or don't.
This is the choice I've made for myself. But she's like, it's not that you're wrong.
I'm just right. Yeah.
You're wrong. I'm just right.
It was really the vibe. Which is a vibe.
Yeah. Two things can be true.
Yeah. two things can be true.
It's not that you're wrong.

I'm just right.

Right, absolutely.

I'm right and you might be wrong.

I'm big and you're small.

What's that from?

Trunchbull.

Oh, Matilda.

Say the legend's name.

Trunchbull.

Trunchbull.

I have a question.

Yeah.

Should my thing be about my, the Tower of Terror?

Absolutely.

Should I read it? Yes, yes, yes, yes. Hold on, I have to get it.
Do you want to go in there? I'll go. I'm just pulling it up.
Pull it up. I do want to say, I want to push back and say that you cannot say that anyone who likes calamari is unimaginative when it comes to appetizers.
I just think that all the sauces you named for wings can easily be slathered onto an octopus. But you don't talk about it like that.

I'm just offering up my

rebuttal. That's all.
I've got something.

Are you a calamari queen? I love calamari.

Have you ever watched

My Best Friend the Octopus?

Yes. Oh, My Octopus Teacher.

My Octopus Teacher. That's what it's called.

That's a movie for dads, for sure. My dad loves that show.

For dads and me.

You know what I've seen like four times?

Blackfish.

Yeah, that's a doozy.

I stay watching it.

Doesn't it stay with you after one?

I have a mental illness that no one can tell me what it is

that things I do sometimes. Oh, Twitter will tell you.

They'll tell you.

I know they will.

One day they all came for me. They were like, Matt has ADHD.
And I And then I was Now I'm like I do No you cannot They tell me I have a lot of things God Guys stop You're onto something No I'm kidding I'm joking You're actually invasive And scary And triggering I look at the computer I'm like what do they say I have I'm like that down down that down just wrong and loud and wrong and loud that's toxic you ready to be right and loud so here comes Bo and Yang by the way I was showing Ari the intermediate Mariah playlist this is good stuff yeah I will I will okay so Bo and Yang locked loaded ready to rip roar and ride I Yeah, I will, I will. It's a good one.
Okay, so Bo and Yang, locked, loaded, ready to rip, roar, and ride. I don't think so, honey.
Time starts now. I don't think so, honey.
Ginger, I don't like the way you're shaped. I go to the grocery store.
You're shaped like branched dicks. And I don't like how you slice into it and you leave it on the counter and it becomes stringy.
And then Nigella Lawson describes Ginger as having a spicy warmth.

I go, shut up.

It is, it doesn't do anything.

When was the last time a Ginger shot kept you from having a cold?

Me, I.

Yeah, hi.

Damn it.

30 seconds.

It is, it is not, it is not pulling its weight anymore. Ginger, you think it's the placebo, y'all.
I'm telling you for a fact. It is not actually doing anything.
You're eating something spicy and gross, and it's not actually good anymore. And Big Ginger is making all these candies now that make you feel like you're supposed to be healthy.
No, I don't think so many ginger. You're shaped weird.

Five seconds.

I don't think we're ever supposed to have eaten you.

We're supposed to have letting you grow in the ground and take roots.

That's one minute.

Be buried.

Look at the faces of your friends.

They're laughing.

They're laughing next to us.

I couldn't have been at us.

No, I think they're laughing at us.

If you're laughing at us, say, woo!

Oh, no. Oh, no.
Thank you. Thank you, guys.
Thank you. Well, now we're both embarrassed.
You stand by your calamari, I don't think so, honey. This is a disaster.
Ginger rocks. Ginger is fabulous.
Yeah. I'm sorry.
I've always thought so until I used it for a dish yesterday. And I went.
What was the dish? Yeah, tell us. It was a curry.

It belongs.

It has to be in curry.

Doesn't it?

You would think.

Too much.

Well.

Much too much.

Did you just put too much in?

That's on ginger.

That can happen.

That's on ginger.

Much like star anise has a big presence.

Sucks up all the space in the room.

Certain flavors really can't be,

you can't share a dish with them.

I think they're very self-conscious about it.

I think star anise comes into the room and is like,

hi.

Hey.

I'm sorry.

It's good to see you guys.

Sorry to take up so much space.

And celery's like, fuck.

I don't think people know you as a culinary icon.

You are.

Has it been something you're holding back from the world? Well, I mean, I don't think I'm a culinary icon, I'll say. Giada is shook.
Giada is shaking. You know, I do like to...
Don't you feel Giada's shaking? I think Giada De Laurentiis is shaking. What does Giada De Laurentiis have anything to do with it? I think Giada De La Renta is watching this right now and being like, fuck.
Ariana is good.

She's coming for me.

She's cooking now.

I am cooking.

I am cooking.

I like to cook.

I do.

You?

I think that's enough of that.

I don't think there's life there.

I don't think that's interesting

or adds value to this podcast.

Who gives a shit?

What am I going to sit here and talk about

like roasting mushrooms for the next 10 minutes? Oh my God. Whoa, that's amazing.
Tell more about that. No, don't.
Well, you know. Honestly, anyone cooking fascinates me.
Do you like king oyster trumpet, like the trumpet ones? The trumpet mushrooms? Yeah, the trumpet ones. I do like those.
There's so many different ways you can work those guys, you know? Oh, they're beefy. There's so many different ways you can work those guys, you know? That sounded crazy.
It sounded just right. Especially about something that looks as phallic as it does.
There's so many different ways you can work these guys. No, but you can make them into little, like, scallops.
Yeah. You can make them into scallops if you just saute them like that.
Yeah. Or you can chop them.
I wish you were to see flip queen because you know where I want to take her. You can chop them in and then roast, like, bake them in their little them in their little chips.
Yeah. I would have to take her to Brooklyn Crab.
Oh, yeah. I used to work at this restaurant in Red Hook.
She can't eat a thing. Take me.
You can have a drink. I can have the sides.
That's the one thing about being a vegan. You really get to know the sides.
Sides queen. That's right.
It's like, can I have the sauté spinach? Is it in butter? You know? You gotta ask. of I told you that wasn't gonna go anywhere speaking of serving up a dish here it is so are you ready oh yes so this is the moment and it feels like you've now thought well I didn't know what I was gonna do but I feel like now that we've talked about it I should should use my letter.
Absolutely. Now is the time.

Use the letter.

It's time for everyone to hear the letter.

This is Ariana Grande's I Don't Think So Honey.

Her time starts.

Wait.

Wait.

So this is going to be a different take on I Don't Think So Honey.

This is a historical artifact.

It's a written document that really serves as an I Don't Think So Honey.

And here we go.

Here we go.

This is Ariana Grande's I Don't Think So Honey.

Her time starts now.

I Don't Think So Honey. The Guardians of starts now.
I Don't Think So, Honey.

The Guardians of the Galaxy ride in Disneyland, California.

No offense.

Said with much love and respect for it.

An open letter to Disney World Orlando.

Hello, I hope this finds you well.

My name is Ariana Grande.

I've been a frequent visitor and a great admirer of your park since I can remember.

Some of my fondest adult professional memories have been collaborating on my cover of Alan

Mankin and David Zippel's tremendous hit Zero to Hero and performing in front of Cinderella's castle along a magnificent choir that you so graciously provided. Further, some of my oldest and warmest personal memories include spotting hidden Mickeys across the parks, driving up from Boca on the weekends, counting the purple signs, knowing we were nearing your parks, and alas, dot dot dot dot dot dot, riding the absolute masterpiece that is the Twilight Zone Tower of Terror for the first time once I was finally tall enough.
Perhaps this message comes prematurely but I would be remiss if I did not reach out with a potential matter of grave concern. In the wake of the most recent alterations that have befallen your historic park in California yes, I am referring to the calamitous loss slash makeover of the Tower of Terror ride here.
I humbly implore you to not follow suit. Please allow the iconic and tremendous Tower of Terror to stand tall, permanently, in the name of historical preservation, spooky honor, and good old-fashioned fun.
I hope that you'll consider this humble plea from a passionate fan in my way over. No, no, no, go ahead.
While asking that my own passionate and devoted fans sign the attached change.org petition just in case. I never posted this but I really wanted to.
And that's one minute. My best friend Aaron and I worked on this together during the pandemic.
You can tell it went through drafts. Yeah, absolutely.
The vocab. Yeah.
Calamitous loss. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You, and did they, so you never sent it? No, I never posted it. Now it's out there.
But I was ready. But it felt like there were more important things going on in the world.

So I didn't.

Well, there's always more important things going on.

I don't know.

This was really up there.

I'm kidding.

Here's the thing.

I'm joking.

But it's not a joke.

You know, I once created a change.org petition for Disney World.

And it actually got a lot of signatures.

Really?

Which was I did not want them to make Donald Trump in the Hall of Presidents.

I was like this would be ridiculous

don't do it.

No they did.

Oh they put him there?

That's crazy.

You know what I'm going to say.

They started to make a Hillary animatronic

because everyone was so positive.

So when you go down to

if you ever go to the Hall of Presidents and you see the Donald Trump animatronic, he kind of has Hillary's face. No.
What are you talking about? I'm talking about exactly what I said, Ariana. I'm talking about exactly what I said.
Scary times, everyone. But literally, he's got the face shape.
You can confirm this, right? 100%. So he's got her face.
I can't say anymore. I'll post it.
But like, I did a change.org and it did some numbers. And we will post the change.org petition that you're referring to.
You know what? I don't want to rock the boat. Too late.
This is a duty. That's true.
It is too late. Consider the boat rocked as fuck.
It is too late. No.
It's true. Goodbye.
It's okay. As we say goodbye.
Why was this so good? It was so good. Literally, I had been waiting to meet you.
Like, ever since- When we finally met. I know.
And also, I felt like it was the SNL after party, and it was so- There there was so much going on. And I literally like.
You had a glow around you. You had a halo around you coming towards me and it felt like an angel descended from the heavens.
I was literally like this person, wait, I literally, because we've messaged and I know you and we know each other. We have DMs every now and then.
Yeah, absolutely. But I was just, I told Bowen, I was like, oh my goodness.
He has such a disarmingly warm energy. I am so obsessed with him.
Well, I mean, I felt like I was like, I was like meeting Ari and so it was just like, I like, I give her a hug and I'm like, I just want to say that, you know, and I started to like, I was like, I can have this conversation with her later about how meaningful it is to me that you were there for him when he was going through things. And I just like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.
I just always felt very connected to you because I could tell that my friend had a friend. And so anyway, that's how I feel about that.
And you just are such a sensation in this movie and in everything you do. And we love you.
Thank you. Because we knew you.
You know, we used to sing for good. I need to hear that.
Yeah, I was off of that. That was Glenda.
I'm Glenda. That's tracks.
Tracks. It does.
It really does. We actually had it together there for a while.
We had a great rendition. There was once a video of us like doing that.
I feel like I have seen it. What? I want to see it in person.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? We got to do it.
We'll do it soon. We'll do it someday.
But it's so emotional to get through. Oh, forget about For Good.
That must have been crazy shooting that. I was hovering outside my body for two weeks.
And also, we shot it on a rain cover day. So it wasn't even supposed to be when we were shooting it.
Which I loved because I love not over rehearsing or knowing fully. You know, when you know the girls, you can just jump in and do it.
But, you know, it's fine. And we just were, it was a lot.
We had to do movie two is going to be't wait. We're not allowed to talk about it much, but I just will say it's going to feel different than the first.
Everyone. I haven't seen it.
Everyone that was like, it should be one movie. Like you're going to feel silly.
I think you'll understand once you see it, that there's just simply too much. There's too much to get through that deserves and needs to be honored and explored and fully,.
We got one shot to make these movies, you know, until they remake it and, you know, whatever. But we had to get it right.
There's so much story that deserves the time. Got it right.
Thank you. So did you.
You are brilliant. I love you both so much.
Thank you for having me. This was so much fun.
We end every episode with a song. Switching up positions for you.
Kitchen and in the bedroom. Now you're not knowing it in front of her.
Don't. I know it.
You just picked a strange key. We're done.
Bye. Maybe it was just a key.
Lost Cultures is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeartRadio Podcasts. Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
Executive produced by Anna Hosnier and Hansani. Produced by Becca Ramos.
Edited and mixed by Doug Bame and Monique Laborde. And our music is by Henry Kaberski.
Hey everybody, it's me, Matt Rogers, letting you know tickets are on sale now to see me on tour. The Prince of Christmas tour, that is.
I'm doing my whole album, Have You Heard of Christmas? plus a lot more with the whole band all throughout December. Go to www.mattrogersofficial.com to see me in a city near you.
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