“Climbing Cringe Mountain” (w/ Matt & Bowen)

Transcript

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I got invited to a Friendsgiving and now there's the big question of what to bring.

Speaker 2 Well just bring a bottle of Casamigos.

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Speaker 3 Turkey, stuffing, mac and cheese.

Speaker 2 Oh, I was thinking more cranberry juice or ginger beer, but that works too.

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Speaker 3 Look, man.

Speaker 3 Oh, I see. My eye.
Oh, my. Bowen, look over there.
Wow, is that the culture? Yes, goodness. Wow.
Las cultoristas.

Speaker 3 ding-da-dong. Las culture is calling.
Las Coconut is,

Speaker 3 as it were. Lost a coconut tree and these girls.

Speaker 3 I mean,

Speaker 2 not that long ago, was it been on the show that this was going to be a talk and Biden podcast? I don't think it's going to be talking coconuts. I don't think it's going to be talking context.

Speaker 2 I don't think it's going to be talking

Speaker 2 unburdening. We're recording this on Monday, July 22nd.
And

Speaker 2 gosh, just over 24 hours ago, we were rocked by the news. And

Speaker 2 I'm both engaged in a way that I have not been in a long time. And I'm also like completely overwhelmed.
And I'm like, I need to maybe get off this train, but it's not the time for that.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, I think that certainly Steve Kornacki has appeared on my television for the first time in many months. And I said, we are so back.
You know what I thought about today?

Speaker 3 Oh, by the way, I'm hitting that blunt in just a second.

Speaker 3 You know what I thought about today? I literally had like a moment where I almost drove off the road thinking about like how triggered I'm going to be when I hear the word Maricopa. You know,

Speaker 3 like once we start getting into it and just knowing that we're headed there, which is, of course, in the macro, like a very scary thought.

Speaker 3 And I think in the micro, I actually am feeling very celebratory and very hopeful and very excited. But there is so much left to go.

Speaker 3 And therefore, like, I do completely identify with your overwhelm because I mean, even in the two days between when we record this and when this comes out, who knows what's even going to happen?

Speaker 3 It's just crazy. Someone made a joke like, oh, I bet in 10 days we're going to forget Trump was even like almost assassinated.
And it bizarrely feels true. Everything is happening so fast.

Speaker 2 We just have to.

Speaker 2 I hope that there is kind of a straight line all the way to middle of August.

Speaker 2 But who fucking knows? I mean, you can't. It's what we mean.

Speaker 3 It's what we mean. You can't write this.
Well, you can't write it. I mean, truth is truly stranger than fucking fiction, for sure.

Speaker 2 I'm smoking a new Flamer joint, a pre-roll from Flamer, this queer run. I'm looking at their website.
A bunch of hotties founded this.

Speaker 3 Love that. And can I say, is this the same way that you were smoking yesterday? Because my girl was happy, jovial, and more.

Speaker 2 Can you talk about this? Because I think, and this is the first time I felt this way in a long time. By the way, I put Flamer next to Sunday School,

Speaker 2 sort of the West Coast equivalent, although they are kind of

Speaker 2 making inroads in the East.

Speaker 2 But I left our little meeting yesterday. We had a little work session yesterday, and I was coming in stoned because, oh, this is my anonymous honey.
My body is just

Speaker 2 fucked. And I don't know why.
I need to get to the bottom of it. But I was like, I need a little bit of sativa to just get me up and activated.

Speaker 2 And I was like, Gabe Levin has this joke where he's like, this thing happens to me when I drink where I'm amazing.

Speaker 3 Amazing.

Speaker 2 And that's how I felt leaving, leaving that session yesterday. I was like, that was, I was a very good version of myself stoned in that situation.

Speaker 3 I just love to see you so happy. And then, I mean, that's, that's what I'm reacting to is like, you were happy and like you seemed like, yeah, I was just so happy to see you in this mode.

Speaker 3 And also, wait, wasn't that like, that was about 15 minutes after he had announced.

Speaker 2 That was literally 15 minutes after he had announced.

Speaker 3 And so I remember, by the way, just like finding out from an Instagram threat, like finding out on Instagram is

Speaker 3 wild. I want to know if you found out from like Pop Crave,

Speaker 3 email in. And by email in, I mean get our attention in some way online.
Like, cause I know that Pop Crave, whatever the fuck, like, that all these.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that they were breaking news for people. And because that is the world that we live in.
But, you know, just to speak broadly about it,

Speaker 3 this is what we wanted.

Speaker 3 And I will, I will not lie, when I saw that he posted that, I felt a moment of deep sadness and concern about what was going to happen because there was not an explicit endorsement of her.

Speaker 3 I didn't know in that moment if that's what exactly I wanted or needed. I always knew she was super viable for it.

Speaker 3 But there was a moment of like, wow, this sort of direct action that we all participated in to ensure that he was not going to be the one on the ballot because I just haven't felt confident about it in a very long time

Speaker 3 and couldn't pretend. It happened.
It was very sobering. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 And so then a half an hour later, when he did endorse her, and the endorsement started to come and the energy started to pick up, and you saw at least what feels like right now feels like more unity than we have had.

Speaker 3 Not to say that she doesn't have her issues, but it felt amazing to just feel like it was possible that we would retain our democracy and that it was possible that we would potentially maybe end this story in the way that it should have ended in 2016, in the way that, you know, maybe things were meant to be.

Speaker 3 I mean, I will say it does feel like Donald Trump, white-collar thug, convicted felon, racist, rapist, predator, versus Kamala Harris, prosecutor, black woman, Indian woman who's rising up as a new leader of this party.

Speaker 3 It does feel like the last chapter. It kind of does feel like we're about to.

Speaker 2 It's giving series finale.

Speaker 3 It's giving series finale. It's giving big boss.
And I pray, and I am truly hoping, and I am hopeful we will have. an ending that is a positive one.
And I mean that.

Speaker 3 And I am fully on board and will work very hard, as hard as I can, to make sure that Kamala Harris is elected president because the alternative is not acceptable.

Speaker 2 Thank you for putting it in those words. I think we are untangling a lot of words and texts and thoughts and ideas right now in this moment.
I'm seeing a lot of stuff. I think I have

Speaker 2 a decent birth, B-E-R-T-H, of like a social media sort of like glimpse.

Speaker 3 You certainly do.

Speaker 2 But who am I to say? But a lot of people, a lot of what I'm seeing now is

Speaker 2 people being like, great, but also bummer that this was

Speaker 2 like the thing. It was never about like his policies.
It was always about his electability. And it's like, yes, that's not, that makes sense in an election.

Speaker 2 To be concerned about electability makes total sense. It is not something to like discredit any part of this process that like

Speaker 2 shouldn't have happened, except it should have. But you know what I mean? It's like it's set.
Like we're all bummed that it happened, except, but it had to happen this way.

Speaker 2 And there is like a decent outcome on the other side of this. There's an even great outcome on the other side of this.
No matter how you feel about Kamala Harris, it's like.

Speaker 2 She has demonstrated the capacity to move leftward on things, even though for every progressive policy she's been a part of, there seems to be like a conservative one that outweighs it.

Speaker 2 And that's like a totally fair fair thing to level against her. But let's just, I think we really do need to do some collective exercise in like putting that in a compartment for now.

Speaker 2 And I know we said this like four years ago about Joe, but it's like

Speaker 2 feels even more dire than that. And there is no option of losing.
There is no option of losing. And that's what we have to remember.
And like.

Speaker 2 AOC put it perfectly. There is no progressive enough candidate right now

Speaker 2 to win and beat Donald Donald Trump. But like, you just have to think about between these two people, whose presidency do you want to organize under? Do you want to be active under?

Speaker 2 Do you want to try to push things in a certain way under?

Speaker 2 I think there's a clear choice here. And that's the frame.

Speaker 3 One choice. I mean, and I would say if you hedge on that choice, then you're not thinking about people much more vulnerable than you.
And I do think that is the way we have to vote.

Speaker 3 Fucking Brooklyn gay guys

Speaker 3 have to think about trans people in the middle of this country. You have to think about black women.
You have to think about low-income people. We have to.

Speaker 3 And I, by all means, vent your frustrations about what is happening, but fucking vote for her.

Speaker 2 Yes, yes. And I also think, I think we can engage on this like for the next hundred days or so in a way that is like, um, what I find effective is like just reframing things.

Speaker 2 And like anytime I feel like from either side, I'm being like

Speaker 2 moralized, proselytized, like

Speaker 2 getting a finger wagged in my face that I'm like, I'm totally disengaging.

Speaker 2 Like I've, whenever anyone feels like they are being chastised in some way in this kind of conversation and this kind of discourse, like that does not seem to be effective.

Speaker 2 And so I feel like maybe as a lost culture exercise for everybody, for readers, Katie's publicists, finalists, like the way you try to engage around this, if someone does seem to be pushing back, is just to like reframe it in that exact way where you're like, well, what would it be like to try to like

Speaker 2 make positive things happen on a collective level in one outcome versus another?

Speaker 3 Like that is, that, that's helpful to me. And I would also say, I don't think, and I, we have been, we have really not weighed in.
You know what I mean? We have really not weighed in.

Speaker 3 But I did come out and say I did not vote for him in the primary. I have been trying to send small messages to the top in the way that I can.

Speaker 3 You know, I was called the other day to fundraise for Biden and I politely told the person on the other end of the phone, while I would be voting for the Democratic candidate, I don't feel I can send money until something is done.

Speaker 3 And something was done. And I would imagine they heard that a lot.
And now what I would say is that everyone's opinion matters, but there are facts here.

Speaker 3 Just like the way Joe Biden's feelings don't matter. His feelings don't matter.
I understand that he might be angry. He might feel very sad and depressed about this.

Speaker 3 He might have a lot to look at in terms of where he's actually at, the way that politics works. I mean, he should know more than anyone.
He might feel a certain way. His feelings don't matter.

Speaker 2 Just like our feelings don't matter.

Speaker 3 And that's kind of what I'm getting to: it's like, you can have feelings. They don't actually matter.
The facts matter.

Speaker 3 It matters that we live in this world and we exist in this world and we do what we need to do, which is we get this man off the world stage.

Speaker 3 And just to speak about her, she is left of Biden. She is.
And many people do believe he is the most progressive president we've ever had.

Speaker 3 Lots of people on the news who, you know, may have a reason to say this feel that this was, you know, by far the most successful presidency of all time in these four years.

Speaker 3 I do think there's a lot of, you know, we're leaning on it. What is happening in Gaza, the humanitarian crisis, there weighs heavy on my heart.
Know that.

Speaker 3 And we must work harder for the ceasefire.

Speaker 3 At the end of the day, Trump would burn the world.

Speaker 3 He would burn the world. And listen to me now.

Speaker 3 If you are listening to this podcast and hedging, my diva, I want to cradle your face in my hands. He would watch you die, sweetheart.
He would watch you die.

Speaker 3 And I don't say that to scare you, but if it did, okay.

Speaker 3 You can't.

Speaker 3 Like,

Speaker 3 and I'm now militant about it, actually.

Speaker 3 And,

Speaker 3 you know, I didn't need more reasons to be angry at Teresa Judice, but I did see her just like Amber Rose's Instagram. Get that woman off my television.
ASAP.

Speaker 3 We're done with Trump.

Speaker 2 Larsa Pippin. Larsa Pippin.

Speaker 3 You're burnt.

Speaker 2 You're toast.

Speaker 3 Toast.

Speaker 3 And if we see you it's on site i just can't with these clowns i can't deal with all with all these hoes all these

Speaker 2 hoes all these hoes i can't deal what do you think about kamala being brock coded now here's my honest take go on

Speaker 2 i think

Speaker 2 the coconut tree memes were on a parallel track to like

Speaker 2 all the itgeball remixes i mean i know like like that was like

Speaker 2 and then i think what's happened in the Venn diagram, as it were, like, it all started to become one circle. And I think, like, all the arms and tentacles of this thing

Speaker 2 have like

Speaker 2 collapsed into one shape. And the shape right now is, oh, okay, I guess Kamala HQ is running with.

Speaker 2 brat visuals with brat girl summer with all these things. My honest, honest emotional response.
And again, my feelings don't matter.

Speaker 2 And so maybe my thoughts don't matter, but I am flashing back in trauma to, is this our Pokemon go to the polls? Is this the moment like Pokemon go to the polls for me? That's all.

Speaker 2 I think they were hot off the heels of the Charlie tweet, and maybe that's what's going on. And I'm sure they will change it in like,

Speaker 2 I hope, a week or something to something totally different and like not quite as. Right.

Speaker 3 Let's not have brat-coded visuals in October.

Speaker 2 No,

Speaker 2 no, no.

Speaker 3 But you know what? I will say,

Speaker 3 someone as fucking cool and relevant and progressive and, you know, international as her coming out right away,

Speaker 3 that's different than I think we've seen in a long time. And it actually makes me very hopeful that

Speaker 3 not we're going to get in line. You know what I mean? It's not that.
It's just that we're taking this seriously in a way that's bigger than us.

Speaker 3 And if it convinces people who are still trying to be too cool for this, that maybe they should take it more seriously because at least mother is, you know what I mean? Like,

Speaker 3 then I'm for it. I don't know if I need Kamala doing the Apple dance.
I don't want to see it.

Speaker 2 There is a line.

Speaker 3 I think her best move is to ignore all of the memes, give a moment or two of acknowledging coconuts or unburdened or whatever, and really stay above it and be presidential and just hold Trump accountable and stay very focused on the task at hand, which is still a very difficult thing, which is defeating Donald Trump.

Speaker 3 And I think let the internet have fun because it seems to be working in a healthy way at this point.

Speaker 2 It can turn so quickly.

Speaker 3 As we know.

Speaker 2 If what we're fearing is

Speaker 2 she leans in a little bit too hard on this at an event or something and you're like, oh, and at that point, it's fully Pokemon.

Speaker 3 Go to the the polls. 100%.
I was having a lot of fun on TikTok yesterday. I'm suddenly very active on TikTok.

Speaker 2 I don't know how to do it. I see that.

Speaker 3 Don't, and there was a lot of judgment in the voice. No, there was.

Speaker 3 There was a lot of judgment in the voice. And I'll just call it a ton of it because I'm in my truthful era.

Speaker 2 My tone is, you are not going to let, and I love you for this. You're not going to let my tone.
And which, let's say I did have a tone. I vehemently deny that I had a tone and that I was judging you.

Speaker 2 But let's say I was. You wouldn't let that stop you.

Speaker 3 No, certainly not. But I will say, I was having a lot of fun on TikTok and I did find myself sort of

Speaker 3 giving something like this. You might like Trump, but my kick is Kamala.
And then I realized so much works with her name. So much works with her name.
Too much works with her name.

Speaker 3 And I was like, listen, if we can sort of, I don't know if this is the word, celebritize her. And there is a lot with her that works for this.

Speaker 3 I mean, with Kamala Harris, Harris what you do get is a sort of glam factor you get a Saturday Night Live characterization that isn't sorry

Speaker 3 like depressing or pathetic you know what I mean like it's not like oh look at this clown who's asleep or this monster who's like thank God they found someone to do like what's actually kind of a measured characterization of him.

Speaker 3 Like, you know, like Johnson's strong. Yes.

Speaker 3 I think he does an amazing job. He does.
He does.

Speaker 3 I don't think that Alec Baldwin Trump worked at all because it was just so broad and scary and monstrous and weird that it so obviously came from a place of like,

Speaker 3 it just wasn't working. With Maya and

Speaker 3 Kamala, I think what you get is a really fun game, which is she is a Glamazon who maybe is, you know, a capital P politician and that there's a little bit of ego there, but you don't get a sense that she's like

Speaker 3 dumb. You don't distrust the person doing it.
You're actually quite excited to see the person coming on and doing it, which I think there's historical precedent for at that show.

Speaker 2 What I don't think is precedented is that

Speaker 2 if you take Hillary,

Speaker 2 it's like the characterization there. And maybe that's this just speaks to like the way that it was accumulating through decades of political life.

Speaker 2 Like the characterization was like, she's shrill, she's bullish, she's like

Speaker 2 not likable in all these ways, right? Right. And

Speaker 2 like, who knows what the dialogue is there? It's hard to parse out the dialogue there between like the reality and like the sketch character of it. But between Kamala and Maya, it's like,

Speaker 2 well,

Speaker 3 these are like two like

Speaker 2 personable people. And like, Maya's characterization was never like, and this is a credit to people who've helped work on that character, Kaff, Kaff, Sudie Green.
Yes.

Speaker 2 But it's like, this is not a shrill, this is not like an unlikable, detestable fucking

Speaker 2 succubus of a woman that like kind of at that, like between Hillary and Sarah Palin, which is like, I think like the last big, the other big like female political impersonation on that show in recent memory, it's like, those are like characters

Speaker 2 that get blown up to like

Speaker 2 literally ridiculous proportions. They are ridiculing these people.
With Kamala and with Maya, it's like there is something very

Speaker 2 that feels nice on the palate, is how I'm going to put it.

Speaker 3 It's fun to watch, you know what I mean? And I will say, I did always enjoy

Speaker 3 the Hillary on the show, but I will say I do think that, and this is obviously, you have to make it funny first, and it was always funny. But sometimes I worry about like feeding into,

Speaker 3 you know, a characterization that like

Speaker 3 reinforces a negative opinion of that person.

Speaker 3 Now, mind you,

Speaker 3 on a show like that, it is equal time, whatever that means. It's like, I don't know about inviting the candidate on because correct me if I'm wrong, you have to have both on if one of them comes on.

Speaker 3 That's not true. Oh, isn't it not true? Or

Speaker 2 like at different times, obviously, right?

Speaker 3 Right, correct. I don't mean on the same episode.
I thought I remembered something about like. If one candidate comes on, you have to have the other one on.

Speaker 2 Oh, I'm not even sure about that. But yeah, I guess there might be Hillary to that.
hillary came and then trump hosted the same president the same election and then god remember that reality holy

Speaker 2 literally went to that show

Speaker 2 um went to that taping anyway and then i guess obama and john mccain yeah okay so well because i don't think biden came through right biden never went no biden has never at least in the last since 2008 has never been on snl right

Speaker 3 so i feel like there's something to that and maybe the fact that it is different now, it's like

Speaker 3 I feel like you might have, we may have enough with just Maya's Kamala and, you know,

Speaker 3 the Trump that we've had on that show for a while. It might be enough.

Speaker 3 You may not need the real candidate to come through, and especially if it's a situation where, well, if she's going to come through, then I have to come through, or at least have the option.

Speaker 3 I would imagine that you know he's going to take that option. Though I will say,

Speaker 3 I do think there is enough

Speaker 3 anger from

Speaker 3 the Trump people and there's enough disdain for media that I can see them passing on that opportunity. Similarly to how I can kind of see him backing out of this debate.

Speaker 3 And you see him sort of planting the seeds now. Oh, he's not.

Speaker 2 He's not debating her.

Speaker 3 He's never debating her. You don't think so?

Speaker 2 There's a reason why people who get prosecuted at trial usually don't take the stand. Usually don't take the stand.

Speaker 2 Because like a prosecutor knows what questions to ask or how to like elicit a response out of someone, anyone they're talking to, basically.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Then I don't know if this is true, but I hope it's true that if he doesn't want to participate in a scheduled debate, that she still gets that time on national television to address the nation, because I am sure she is obviously itching to do that and obviously would relish the opportunity to prosecute him live in front of America as the felon white collar thug that he is

Speaker 3 and actually hold him accountable and call him out on the litany of bullshit that our current president was unable to do, which is why we could not move forward with him.

Speaker 3 So now you have the whole Trump organization running scared because I mean this old campaign video from 2020 came out and she was not a good candidate then in the totality of things, but there is a moment and there is a time for that moment to be met.

Speaker 3 And that kind of feels like now when you look at this old video of her being like, you know, and this is where you kind of appreciate that she is a cop and a prosecutor because she puts people like him away in her sleep.

Speaker 3 She eats people like him for breakfast.

Speaker 3 She did have that one very good debate, which birthed the that little girl was me moment. And then she quickly sort of plummeted in the polls.

Speaker 3 I think because Tulsi Gabbard pulled some bullshit on her.

Speaker 2 Tulsi.

Speaker 3 One of the biggest flops in modern history, Tulsi Gabbard. I mean, give me a fucking break.
But we won't talk about this whole episode. In the grand scheme of things, it's just nice to feel

Speaker 3 like there's a path forward. And it's nice to feel like on the other side of all this cringe, there's going to be nirvana.
And they say that about cringe.

Speaker 3 And it's my favorite thing I've learned recently, which is, you know, you're, you have to sometimes climb up a huge hill of cringe.

Speaker 3 And once you can scale that hill, which is, you know, it might be your judgment on yourself. It might be your judgment on what you're doing.
It might be everyone saying what you're doing is cringe.

Speaker 3 On the other end, there is you slide down into happiness and nirvana. Bitch.
And I'm not saying things would be fucking perfect afterwards, but we'd have a country.

Speaker 2 I know about working through cringe, climbing a cringe mountain. I work at Saturday fucking night live, the cringiest thing in show business on every level.

Speaker 3 Climbing Cringe Mountain title of F.

Speaker 2 Climbing Cringe Mountain. Cringe Mountain is SNL.

Speaker 2 Eternally grateful that I worked there. Will be the defining thing of my life and career.

Speaker 2 And yet it is a cringe mountain because to live through working at SNL and to have people constantly tell you how much it sucks, how bad it is, how it's not as good as it used to be for your career.

Speaker 2 That has to do something to you psychologically where you emerge and go, I don't give a fuck.

Speaker 3 I feel like, you know what it is? It's like

Speaker 3 y'all put on wigs

Speaker 3 and you go up there and you wear

Speaker 3 it hard. No, it's not even, but it's not even cringe because of what you do, because I don't think it's cringe.
But I will say, in what I'm saying, which is that everyone has a fucking opinion.

Speaker 3 It's the most popular show in the world. It's been now been on for 50 years.
It is

Speaker 3 capital C commercial culture. And therefore, it's cringe because everyone is like, I'm having something to say.

Speaker 2 And it's comedy and it's subjective.

Speaker 3 And it's corporate. And you know what I mean? And it's all those things.
And that's also what we're kind of going through. But on the other side of it, guess what, Bowen?

Speaker 3 You get to actually the visceral thing of people laugh, people feel good. And that is why we're doing this.

Speaker 3 And that is why America is worth saving so that we can protect people and live up to what this actually all is fucking about. And now it's getting very broad.

Speaker 3 But I'm just saying, like, to you, to me, to everyone, fucking get over yourselves and like work at what you do and be proud of what you do and be proud of who you are and be proud that you know what's right and wrong.

Speaker 3 Bless.

Speaker 3 King. To put it mildly.
Bless. Bless.

Speaker 2 I just want to say one more thing.

Speaker 3 I want you to say so many things.

Speaker 2 I just want to say one more thing about the cringe theory as it relates to my job and not the fate of this country. So I'm sorry to like, you know.

Speaker 3 Yeah, the way I sort of like melded those two things, but I do think I do.

Speaker 2 No, you really, you really brought it home. That was such a sleigh.
This is what you, me, and Sudie have been saying for such a long time.

Speaker 2 Like all of these fucking guys who like go up on stage and do stand-up or would do improv or sketch. Like we know this person.

Speaker 2 Let's say he's straight. These guys were like, oh, I don't know.
Like what I do is cool and edgy. No, bitch.
You go on stage and you talk in a microphone in front of people.

Speaker 2 That is theater, which is gay.

Speaker 3 It's gay.

Speaker 2 So just embrace it.

Speaker 3 Don't

Speaker 2 like, like, that's the analog for cringe in this context. It's like, I'm over these people who are just like,

Speaker 2 I don't know. It's like, just do it so that you can.

Speaker 2 Like every now and then you do something because it's not cool and because it actually benefits something outside of you, even though it is locked into all these other like terrible oppressive systems.

Speaker 2 The motion is up at whatever axis, okay? Like, just like, just do it.

Speaker 3 Can I tell you something,

Speaker 3 can I tell you something? I'm a singing Christmas comedian.

Speaker 3 I'm cringe. I'm Matt Rogers.
I'm cringe. And people buy tickets to my shit.
And I see them afterwards. And they're living.
And you know who else is living? Me. It's my fucking dream.

Speaker 3 And had I not climbed cringe mountain, I wouldn't be looking at my fucking vinyl over there. And I'm not saying this because I feel like I did something.

Speaker 2 What you did.

Speaker 3 I'm saying this because I'm happier for having gotten out of my own way and not giving a fuck about the bullshit. So what I'm saying is, get out of your own way.
Stop giving a fuck about the bullshit.

Speaker 3 Climb the cringe mountain that is this election and that is Kamala often. because now guess what? She's fucking brat coded.
And if you think that's cringe, your feelings don't matter.

Speaker 3 We're going to save the world.

Speaker 3 Period.

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Speaker 3 What else has happened? Has anything else happened?

Speaker 3 I have an I don't think it's funny that's sort of related to this just because there's one figure in politics that if I ever hear his name again, and it's not even, it's not even one of the like top five you're thinking about, maybe it is, but like,

Speaker 3 we'll get to it.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 3 What else? Oh, Remy Wolf. Period.
Soup. Girl, where have you been?

Speaker 2 This is not quite as egregious because I think what Matt Rodgers will dine out on for the rest of his life

Speaker 2 is to say that he introduced hordes of people to Chapel Roan. This is not quite the same thing, but I've been up in this podcast shouting at Remy Wolf for a bit.

Speaker 3 You definitely have. In fact, last week, I called out a different Remy.
Yes. And her summer song.
And you were like, Remy Wolf. And I was like, oh, no.
But also, yes.

Speaker 3 And I have been aware of Remy Wolf for quite a while. But someone I dated liked her.
I think it might have been George.

Speaker 2 George loves Remy.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 3 I've been a Remy Wolf fan in a soft sense. But now like this new record.

Speaker 3 It's really great. And she deserves to take her place.
And I am excited about seeing her live because I heard she puts on on the show.

Speaker 2 She puts on the show. You need to go back and listen to her old albums all the way through.
Like, just

Speaker 2 start to finish.

Speaker 2 Wonderful songwriting.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And by the way, with the chapel rowing of it all, I am just happy that people got on board in the way they have.
It doesn't even matter for me to take the credit because

Speaker 3 you don't. Every single time.
I say, listen, it was a straight man that told me about her. And I say his name with my full chest, Matthew Vaughan.

Speaker 3 And I say he is due the respect because he actually tried several times. And I was like, girl, please, like, I don't know who that is.
And I just can't have you introduce a pop girlie to me.

Speaker 3 He was right. He was right.
Sometimes you have to listen to these straight men. Like, sometimes they might, they might really know something.

Speaker 3 And this one knows, he knows something about multiple things.

Speaker 3 Careful the things you say.

Speaker 2 Careful. The children will listen.

Speaker 3 Children will listen.

Speaker 2 what else has happened i've had such a crazy fucking week of my body here's what's going on since italy for what do you think it is yeah i don't know i mean it's not a bad thing on its face like me being like a morning person

Speaker 2 but i am like only getting like six hours of sleep which i know is like

Speaker 3 a clean rem cycle thing but it's like i i do want to feel refreshed and i have not felt refreshed in a while but that's a lot for you well i just six is a lot for you girl not you Like, it was probably last year or six months ago, eight months ago, where you said just plainly that you're used to four.

Speaker 3 We need to figure that out. Is that an anxiety, you think? Or like, are you eating right before bed? Like, what, what do you think it is about the sleep?

Speaker 2 I think it might be anxiety. It might be my mattress.
I think I might have to swap out the mattress. for something softer because

Speaker 2 we were shooting a month ago and I was I was I was laying down in a bed for a scene and it was a soft mattress. And I kind of went, wait a minute.

Speaker 3 You were like, maybe this is what I've needed all along.

Speaker 2 It's that thing. It was right under your nose the whole time.

Speaker 3 Not to do that. Soft mattresses.
No, literally. I'm telling you, that might be it because, okay, gonna reveal.

Speaker 3 I actually avoid my apartment in New York now, and I think it's actually coloring my New York experience

Speaker 3 because that mattress hurts me. And this is another thing I'll say about Barry's bootcamp.

Speaker 3 I am obsessed with Barry's boot camp. I really feel like I look the best I have.
And I'm so galvanized. And I love going.

Speaker 3 It is just hard on your body if you're not really taking a long time to stretch. And about a month ago, I was being really lax about the stretching and sleeping on a bed in New York that was,

Speaker 3 let's say,

Speaker 3 very firm because the person that owns that place has not a great back and needs a very firm mattress. I don't have that until I'm not stretching and I sleep on a bad mattress.

Speaker 3 I am now sort of obsessed with LA again, solely because of the mattress here, which is what?

Speaker 3 Let me tell you, a Helix Midnight. Clap, clap, clap.
I'm not trying to do an ad, but I am giving testimonial in many different ways and saying, this actually is the shit.

Speaker 3 And my sister got one too, and she's happier than ever, Billie Eilish.

Speaker 3 Hmm.

Speaker 2 It sounded like Billie Eilish was your sister there for a second.

Speaker 3 I don't think that we are, but I'll do the 23andMe.

Speaker 3 Eilish, Irish.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 2 am

Speaker 3 just

Speaker 2 recalibrating. things right now.
I really am trying to get gut health in check.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I literally, literally, I ordered a pooping kit.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I got a poop. I got a scoop.
I got to send it back to the lab.

Speaker 3 Oh, so you're, you're doing it. You're pooping in a bag.

Speaker 2 I'm pooping in a bag and I

Speaker 2 am waiting for my microbiome readout so I know what I need to focus on in the gut.

Speaker 3 I mean, if it's going to help and yield results, I say try every fucking thing. Poop in that bag, sister.

Speaker 2 For my second brain, which is another name for the stomach.

Speaker 3 Holy fuck. Where did you get that? Or did you come up with it?

Speaker 2 No, no, no. A lot of gut health people say that.

Speaker 3 That the stomach is the second brain. You know what? Yeah, because it thinks for itself.

Speaker 2 It talks to your brain and it thinks for itself. Wow.

Speaker 3 I love that. Your stomach is your second brain, honey.
Sometimes my stomach has bad ideas. Let me tell you something.

Speaker 2 Sometimes my stomach is my, you know, first brain. And sometimes my brain is my second stomach.

Speaker 3 No, we talked about this because

Speaker 3 we did. We did.
Remember, we talked about this. I told you.

Speaker 3 Oh, maybe I said this to Jared, but I told you. Okay, I'm just going to, I'm going to be really honest because I'm in my honesty era.
I'm TikToking a lot.

Speaker 3 And I'm here sort of saying,

Speaker 3 go, Kamala. So I'm just going to come out here and say this.
Within this year,

Speaker 3 I have, let's put it like this, lost my shit.

Speaker 3 And it happened very close to my actual bathroom. And it took me by surprise.

Speaker 2 You did tell me about this.

Speaker 3 I shit my pants, actually, because

Speaker 3 I had eaten badly the night before and I had a cold brew. And I was actually, I knew it was going to be an emergency.
And so I was in the elevator.

Speaker 3 And I was like, oh my God, this cannot move fast enough. And it quite, in fact, could not because in my elevator in New York,

Speaker 3 let's just say I ruined my Brooks Marks pants.

Speaker 3 And I'm sorry, Brooks.

Speaker 2 It wasn't. It has nothing to do with you.

Speaker 3 It had nothing to do with you. In fact, I would say I felt so comfortable in your stuff.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 And I also know I'm putting this out there and I'm sort of getting very fecal. And I'm sort of joining my sister in fecal confessions.

Speaker 2 In fecal confessions.

Speaker 2 One more thing about that Brooks Marks thing. His initials are BM and they're all over the pants.
And that's what you had.

Speaker 3 I hadn't even considered that until now. You had a BM and a BM and a BM.
And that's actually roller culture number 19. I had a B.
I had a BM and a BM.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So, but luckily he had sent three pairs.
So I still have my other two, but the other one's good to go.

Speaker 3 So, what I'm saying is, my stomach was acting as a second brain where it actually, I'm telling you, I was thinking so hard with my brain and trying so hard with pretty much every part of my body, including it.

Speaker 3 My stomach was making executive decisions. Decisions.

Speaker 2 Executive function was in the stomach.

Speaker 3 100%. And the butthole was an accomplice.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 that is like, um, you know, I think like parasympathetic.

Speaker 2 Like your butt kind of like, I always thought the butthole had a mind of its own, but I think the stomach is the one pulling all the strings. Stomach is like the twist villain at the end of a movie.

Speaker 2 Like it was her all along.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Can I say something? I know this was not everyone's favorite episode, the Tyler Henry Hollywood medium episode.
I know that it was not everyone's favorite episode.

Speaker 3 Not everyone liked that health came up during that reading.

Speaker 2 It's iconic.

Speaker 3 He said to me, you need to watch your stomach and your gut stuff. And I was like, okay.

Speaker 3 And I do think now it's sort of an iconic moment because

Speaker 3 let me tell you,

Speaker 3 hmm, the spirits got me on that one.

Speaker 2 Let me tell you, that doodler knows what he's talking about.

Speaker 3 But wait, can I say this is another reason he has the gift. This is another reason why you can't be eating bad at night.

Speaker 2 And I ask you, do you ever eat like really late or eat garbage at night sure yeah but i okay but this is this is all part of my um poop it a bag journey like i'm really i really want to get into

Speaker 2 not i'm not like aura ring coded i'm not about to get my fucking like all my biometrics so i can optimize and shit i just want to know I just want to poop in a bag and know what my microbiome is.

Speaker 2 That's all. I really just want to know names.
I want to know like, ooh, I'm going to eat more Spirulena, like like whatever.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah.
Well, first of all, like, yeah, it's going to improve your life exponentially.

Speaker 3 One thing you can definitely do, though, like right on the outset, one thing you can definitely do is just not eat before you go to bed because I do think that that, look, just confronting our mid-30s head on.

Speaker 3 There is something with that. It's like my stomach, when that, when I was doing that and I've had to fight, especially as someone who loves a reefer in the nighttime, it's hard.

Speaker 3 You cannot eat before you go to bed because your stomach is so pissed off in the morning and you wake up so much earlier than you would have. Yes.
Because your stomach's making decisions.

Speaker 2 Of course. Second brain.
If you are going to eat something,

Speaker 2 a little baby tomato, a little carrot stick, a little grape, that'll do you. Yes.

Speaker 3 You know what? What? You're right. And literally, you know what? I've become really obsessed with cucumber.

Speaker 3 Bitch,

Speaker 2 you've never eaten a vegetable more refreshing.

Speaker 3 Literally, it's hydrating. It's aesthetically pleasing.
It's easy to prepare. And get this.
You can even dress up your cucumber. This is what you do.
I feel like Anthony Perovsky. Yeah.
Literally.

Speaker 3 I've actually never felt more like Anthony than recently. We love it.
Positive, negative. I don't care.
I'm climbing Cringe Mountain and I'm sliding down the other end. I love him.

Speaker 2 Guess who climbed Cringe Mountain?

Speaker 3 Anthony.

Speaker 3 And guess who's got many books out and looks like Anthony? Come on. Sometimes I see pictures of him and I'm like, well, there he is, the world's hottest man.
And it's okay. It's okay.

Speaker 3 Anyway, irrespective of that.

Speaker 2 People think that about me all the time.

Speaker 3 It's literally like that's something the three of us all share. It's okay.

Speaker 3 What I'm saying is, this is what you do. You chop up your cucumber.

Speaker 2 I'm with you.

Speaker 3 You get a little hot sauce.

Speaker 2 I'm, I think I'm with you.

Speaker 3 Like, mild. And I'm not talking about like go crazy.
I'm talking about like some cholula, even.

Speaker 3 You put a little bit of chalula on the thing, a little bit of salt and pepper, a little bit of salt and pepper. Then what you do is you just rub the cucumbers all up around in the hot sauce and stuff.

Speaker 3 So it's almost like dressing. It's like almost like buffalo cucumber.
And then you eat the cucumber.

Speaker 3 It is the best snack. It's actually a nominee for best snack.
Best snack?

Speaker 3 Yes, Mo.

Speaker 2 How would you see it on the card?

Speaker 3 Best snack. Cucumbers with hot sauce.
A little

Speaker 3 salt and pepper.

Speaker 2 Smelled like that. A little salt and pepper, like eating buffalo cucumber.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 I don't know if I would go as far as to call it buffalo cucumber because I think what you immediately think of is fried cauliflower. And I can't.

Speaker 2 This is still on the card. This is still the nominee name.

Speaker 3 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I think it should be.
I personally, and

Speaker 3 all of a sudden, a nominee has like a subheader,

Speaker 3 like

Speaker 3 a below the line. Like Lord of the Ring.

Speaker 3 Fellowship of the Ring. This is cucumber, buffalo sauce, but the thing is a little bit of salt and pepper, and then you

Speaker 3 dot dot dot dot dot. It's like a Fiona Apple album.

Speaker 2 It's a Fiona Apple album.

Speaker 3 Well, anyway, I swear by this snack, and I learned it from my father. I got it from my daddy.

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Speaker 3 I think if you've listened to Lost Colch research this, you know by now that we have Helix mattresses and you know that we love them. I'm telling you, I can't get out of bed and not just because

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Speaker 3 as gay. Yeah.
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Speaker 3 Let me tell you something. If you climb Cringe Mountain,

Speaker 3 you will slide down the slide. That's what I think is on the other end of Cringe Mountain, like a slide, like a really fun slide.

Speaker 3 I'm very into slide culture recently because I went on a vacation where they had a water slide. And you saw me at the Baja Mar the first time we went.
You knew I,

Speaker 3 you know, I'll do any water slide.

Speaker 2 You love a slide.

Speaker 3 Love it.

Speaker 2 Slide cane.

Speaker 3 I don't care what it does to my back. in regards to scratches.
I really don't. Like, I love going down a slide.
I love, what was it?

Speaker 3 There was something I recently did where I was like, oh, it was when we were in Sicily. I never did jump off that big rock.

Speaker 2 A big rock.

Speaker 3 I don't think you needed to do that.

Speaker 2 It's a big rock.

Speaker 3 But you know, I was diving off the smaller rock.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And you were having a great time.
And I think sometimes you got to, you got to cap it and be like, that's enough for me.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Like, there was no real reason for me to dive off a rock that was, how high would you say that was? That was like 70 feet high.

Speaker 2 70 feet high. Seven stories, Matt.
Come on. You don't need to do that.
Yeah. You really don't.

Speaker 3 There's a little part of me. This is who the little kid in me is.

Speaker 3 The little, and this is maybe different from the way you were, but nothing. So

Speaker 3 the little kid in me was like an aspiring daredevil, like wanted to was obsessed with doing like bungee jumping and like really couldn't wait to jump out of a plane to the point where I jumped out of a plane at 18.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And it's, I've I've never been the same.
It was horrible. Horrible.

Speaker 2 You're not. Human beings aren't supposed to do that.

Speaker 3 What's the most extreme thing you've ever done?

Speaker 2 I really don't think I am an I've done extreme things.

Speaker 3 I guess maybe, you know what, if I could use conjecture on you. Yeah.
Have you ever done like black diamond skiing?

Speaker 2 Um, sure. Then maybe that.

Speaker 3 Maybe that. Like if you can think of the sensation of that, are you comfortable? No.

Speaker 2 see, I hate it.

Speaker 3 So, it certainly can't get shouldn't get darker and worse.

Speaker 2 You mean like double black diamond?

Speaker 3 Like, what I'm saying is like darker in terms of like why we're doing this. Like, it's like throwing yourself out of a plane is dark.

Speaker 2 It's so dark. Oh, that's what you're saying.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 It's like, it's like, it's like bungee jumping. It's a little dark.
It's like, why are we doing anything

Speaker 3 where

Speaker 3 you're not going to die, but like

Speaker 3 more likely you could die.

Speaker 2 Much more likely now that you could die for however long you're doing this activity.

Speaker 3 I think anytime you yourself become a flying projectile at high speed, you've placed yourself in a more dangerous risk.

Speaker 3 Correct. We're now at the level of high risk.

Speaker 2 And the high risk is relative, of course, but like

Speaker 2 you just have to think about relative to what? Because relative to you being on the ground,

Speaker 2 so much higher capacity and possibility for death if you're up in the sky and about to jump out of a plane.

Speaker 3 I think about what it felt like to careen through the sky. I sometimes what do you remember? Walk us through, honey.
I remember the whole, you know, there's video of it.

Speaker 3 I have to find the DVD and put it online. It is, first of all, it's me at 18, fresh from graduating, so closeted.
Like, he's in the voice

Speaker 3 doing the giving shows.

Speaker 2 Giving shows.

Speaker 3 Like

Speaker 3 they strapped me because you have to do tandem. I'm sure I've told this before, but like they strap a man on you so you go tandem.
This guy had this highest, spikiest, like hair.

Speaker 3 I joke that I don't remember his name, but the only name I can give him in retrospect is Trask.

Speaker 3 He seemed like a trask to me.

Speaker 2 First of all, you have a thing with the name Trask. You love Trask.

Speaker 3 Has it come through before?

Speaker 2 I'm flashing back to all these moments before we're like in like a sketch or like in an improv show or something.

Speaker 3 You'll be like, I'm Trask.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, okay, this guy loves the OC or he loves East of Eden. Something.

Speaker 3 He loves Oliver Trask. You know who?

Speaker 3 Whenever I'm Trask, and know that if Boer and I ever write or create anything, wink, wink, and there's someone named Trask, that character, there's something about that character.

Speaker 3 If we ever name a character Trask, and you ever in media, if Trask ever appears, know that that's for a reason, because this guy was such a Trask.

Speaker 3 We, the way that you skydive, and I went with all my male friends and my one girlfriend, Lorianne,

Speaker 3 and you have to sit 30,000, no, 13, what is it? 13,000 feet in the air when you skydive, 30,000 when you like shy for real.

Speaker 3 You have to sit on

Speaker 3 like they open the door and you sit with your legs dangling, nothing beneath you.

Speaker 3 And then you go, you literally go, you rock one,

Speaker 3 rock two,

Speaker 3 and then you are supposed to front flip

Speaker 3 out of a plane.

Speaker 3 And then after the one flip, you sort of like toss your arms and legs back and sort of uh get into like um almost like you're a soup bowl belly down that's like the position you're supposed to be in with someone on your back that sensation you sort of adjust to six or seven seconds in because it starts to feel like when you put your hand out of a car window on the highway just that air you start to just feel once you adjust to the zero gravity you start to just feel that all over your body

Speaker 3 Then it gets a little fun.

Speaker 3 Then, by the way, this is all on tape.

Speaker 3 Then they pull the parachute.

Speaker 3 And what they don't tell you is when they pull the parachute, Bowen, it fucking pulls you.

Speaker 3 Yes. But that's not even the worst part.
Yes, there is a jostling and you get pulled and you like land.

Speaker 3 There is a

Speaker 3 10 to 12 second feeling of euphoria that you did it. Now, then you realize the worst is yet to come, hon, because you're still 3,000 feet off the fucking ground.

Speaker 3 And there is nothing beneath you, but there is a man on your back.

Speaker 3 And he's Trask, babe. And Trask doesn't play by the rules.
Something to know about Trask.

Speaker 3 Trask has the ability to sort of like make you go left and right and even in some cases do like flips as you go down.

Speaker 3 They'll ask you if you want that. It's just whether or not you're an 18-year-old closeted person whose number one goal in life is to make straight men feel like you're okay.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 If you're not that person, you might say something like, No, no, no, oh my gosh, I've had enough. Like, let's just float down.
I'm not really feeling great.

Speaker 3 Or you could be that person and you say, For sure.

Speaker 3 And you,

Speaker 2 what person were you? You were, you were that kind of

Speaker 3 me. i was me i was me then

Speaker 3 this was me

Speaker 3 because i

Speaker 3 floated down for nine minutes dry heaving vomiting in my shirt with this man on my back spitting into my t-shirt coughing spurting spitting gagging for nine minutes until we landed and then when i land i have to find this video when i land the camera picks me up again and I'm cross-eyed.

Speaker 3 I pull myself up off the ground and then go, you're going to do it again. And I just give a thumbs up like this.
Get the screenshot.

Speaker 3 I just give a thumbs up like, yep, I'll be back. And then they freeze frame on my face.
By the way, the song that's playing is like, we're going to

Speaker 3 the place where we belong.

Speaker 3 Hell, like that's like the song that's like being sung.

Speaker 3 I just made that up, but that was the genre.

Speaker 3 And like,

Speaker 3 I've never felt worse or more terrified in my life than in that moment. It's all on tape.
And that is when I developed fear. That moment is when I developed physical, atmospheric fear.

Speaker 3 I always had emotional fear, again, closeted 18, but this was different. I no longer identified as someone who wanted to push any limits.

Speaker 2 That

Speaker 3 is,

Speaker 2 to me, and please tell me if I'm out of line,

Speaker 2 so fortunate that you have this on tape because guess what that moment is?

Speaker 3 Tell me what it is and tell everyone too.

Speaker 2 Well, there's climbing cringe mountain and then there's jumping out of cringe airlines. Yep.

Speaker 2 And you jumped out of cringe airlines at the literal peak of your cringe, which was, I need to make sure these straight boys still like me and think I'm funny and want to hang out with me.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 And I hope Trask

Speaker 2 doesn't mind that I like the way his crotch feels on my butt.

Speaker 3 I have to tell you, I couldn't have been less horny. I was gadding.
I was spurting, vomiting, and spitting in the air. I wasn't even thinking about dicks in my butt.
And later I would all the time.

Speaker 2 Of course, much

Speaker 2 not soon after that moment, I'm sure.

Speaker 3 No.

Speaker 2 You literally were throwing up on yourself

Speaker 3 your own fucking discharge covering you.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Being humiliated by these men who ask you after this life-threatening, violatory experience you've had, go want to do that again?

Speaker 2 And you have no choice but to throw your thumbs up because your psyche has been so for an entire life bludgeoned by patriarchy.

Speaker 3 That is all on tape.

Speaker 3 So you can watch.

Speaker 2 You can document, but like you can, you literally have

Speaker 2 something outside of your own memory of it that exists where you can point to that and be like, this is the day that I climbed cringe mountain, that I jumped out of cringe airlines.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You are a better person for it.

Speaker 3 Oh, I 100% am because I'm alive. Who knows at that rate? Had I enjoyed that? Get this.
This is the part where the story gets really fucking crazy. So one of my friends, Kevin, loved the experience.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 the guys were telling us about their job, the people that would jump tandem. We were like, how many times do you guys do this a day?

Speaker 3 Trask goes, 19 times a day is usually how many times I do that. I go, holy fucking shit.
And I guess it computed to us as

Speaker 3 these guys do this every day. Let's say they work four or five times a week, 19 times a day.
They jump out of a plane. I don't know, let's say 100 times a week.
And they've all done this for a while.

Speaker 3 It just doesn't happen that there's accidents, right? You know what I mean? Like, clearly, this is just like any other recreational activity.

Speaker 3 It's like going to a theme park and strapping into a roller coaster. You're actually safer there than you are on the open road.
Got it. It's a monitored thing.

Speaker 3 Never mind the paperwork they make you sign before you can even do it. That's like, if you die, you can't sue.
Never mind that. It doesn't happen.

Speaker 3 Kevin went again.

Speaker 3 I,

Speaker 3 babe,

Speaker 3 when they landed, which they did, thank God, the guy goes to him, dude, we had to go to the backup shoot. He goes, what?

Speaker 3 He goes, we had to go to the backup shoot. I pulled the first shoot.
The thing didn't come out. It has never happened to me before.
I'm not going to lie.

Speaker 3 There was about a 10 second period where I was really scared on your back, really scared. And then I just got my wits about me and pulled the backup shoot.

Speaker 3 And thank God I remembered where it was, et cetera. Like that, I just, I, it, but, But

Speaker 3 the point being,

Speaker 3 they had to go to the backup chute.

Speaker 3 What?

Speaker 3 And he never went again.

Speaker 2 This is the perfect

Speaker 2 thing to unpack.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 For you, for the state of the world.

Speaker 3 You don't have to jump out the mountain. Like, just because you think it's going to be exciting, it's okay.
Let someone else.

Speaker 2 Jump out the plane. Jump out the plane, you mean?

Speaker 3 Jump out the plane. Climb the mountain.
You don't know what we're saying.

Speaker 2 I mean, if you don't have to climb Cringe Mountain, if you don't have a cringe mountain in your horizon, bless you. I hope, I pray that you never have to climb cringe mountain.

Speaker 3 No, I think everyone should climb cringe mountain. Everyone should climb cringe mountain.

Speaker 2 Well, yes, this is like my theory on like queerness. Like,

Speaker 2 not everyone has to be queer and not everyone will be queer, but they should be. I think that would be nice.
You know, like that's how I feel.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But it's not like, it's obviously not prescriptive, and there's no agenda there.

Speaker 3 It's just, but then, what would set us apart?

Speaker 2 Everyone's queer. No one is.

Speaker 2 Well, anyway, I hope you don't have to climb Cringe Mountain, is what I'm saying, but everyone should, because more likely than not, you will, you will come across it in your travels and the travails of your life.

Speaker 2 Cringe Mountain will be right before you. You will be at the base of it, and you have no choice but to climb.

Speaker 3 Or stand.

Speaker 2 Or stand.

Speaker 3 And I guess, oh, this is the last thing I want to say about it. You know who absolutely was there? The only parents to come watch it was Richard and Katrina Rogers.

Speaker 3 Richie and Trina showed up and they were like, no, we're going to watch it. I think my mom had it in her head that like, and I used to have this when I was a kid too.
Sometimes like

Speaker 3 I, as a little kid, would, every time my mom left to go to the store, I would, I would be like, I'm coming. And she was like, you don't have to come.
And I was like, no, I'm coming.

Speaker 3 And I think in my head, I was like, if I'm in the car, there can't be an accident.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Of course.

Speaker 3 Invincible kids syndrome. And you think like, I'm going to protect my mother by going in the car with her.
Like, I know if I'm there, we'll be okay because nothing can bad can happen to me.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 3 I think that my mom thought like, well, I'm going to go watch it so I can actually see it. And it won't be such a big deal.
Can you imagine?

Speaker 3 If your parents are there when you throw yourself out of a plane and hit the ground?

Speaker 2 I mean, I was going to say that they're very good parents for coming and showing up and watching.

Speaker 3 No, they are, but that's even more sad.

Speaker 2 No, no, that's just love is not sad. They love you.
They love you.

Speaker 3 You ever seen the movie Simon Birch?

Speaker 3 No.

Speaker 3 It's about a boy who's different.

Speaker 3 And he plays baseball and he gets on the team. He finally gets on the team.
It's like they accept him.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 his best friend's mother is played by Ashley Judd.

Speaker 3 And at the end of the movie, like Simon Birch finally gets to like hit the ball. He gets to go bat.

Speaker 3 Simon Birch connects with the ball, hits the ball. It's a beautiful moment.
Whoa, the ball goes into this guy. In the parking lot, Ashley Judd is getting out of her car.

Speaker 3 The balls her hits Ashley Judd in the temple of her head.

Speaker 3 But when they run over to Ashley Judd, everyone runs over to Ashley Judd. The coach takes her pulse.
She's dead.

Speaker 3 Simon Birch looks at his best friend whose mother is dead and played by Ashley Judd and he says, I'm sorry

Speaker 3 and runs away forever.

Speaker 3 That's what you get for being a good parent showing up to the games. You get a foul ball in the temple.

Speaker 3 You die for for no reason.

Speaker 2 Simon Birch was released on September 11th, 1993.

Speaker 2 Wait a minute.

Speaker 3 That is such a tragic day. Can I say it's really closer to number 50? September 11th.
That is such a tragic day.

Speaker 2 I did not know that Ashley Judd's character dies.

Speaker 3 Can you read this? Just vindicate me here. Read the synopsis.
Go Go to the end. Okay.

Speaker 3 Just by the way, sorry, everyone. Spoiler for Simon Birch, a film released on September 11th, 1998.
Really the height of Ashley Judd.

Speaker 2 During baseball, Simon hits the perfect pitch. It becomes a foul ball that hits Rebecca in the head.

Speaker 3 Killing her.

Speaker 2 Simon gives Joe his prized baseball cards as an apology, to which Joe gives Simon the stuffed armadillo as forgiveness.

Speaker 3 I mean, he's never been forgiven before.

Speaker 3 He hit a foul.

Speaker 3 No, he didn't murder. You can't even go to...
This is an accident. He murdered her, Bat.

Speaker 3 It was cold-blooded murder.

Speaker 3 Keep reading because

Speaker 3 it gets worse.

Speaker 3 Joe can't.

Speaker 2 Joe couldn't forgive Simon. Keep going.

Speaker 2 Joe's grandmother informs Joe that her own death is imminent due to her age, and there must be a plan for him once her time comes as Rebecca never told anyone who Joe's father was even in confidence.

Speaker 2 Simon believes that Joe's father may have taken the baseball that killed Rebecca.

Speaker 2 Deeming their gym teacher a fitting candidate, they break into his office to see if he has it, but it isn't there. Overwhelmed with despair, Joe vandalizes the office.

Speaker 2 The police chief agrees to release them if they go to the children's retreat over winter break. This is, there's a lot of plot happening in this.

Speaker 3 I thought that was the end of the movie. I guess not.

Speaker 2 No, there's two more paragraphs, babe. Wow.

Speaker 2 This is.

Speaker 3 Well, just see, look at how it ends, ends. Please.

Speaker 2 While Simon and Joe are riding the bus home, it crashes into a lake.

Speaker 2 With the driver abandoning the bus and Russell unconscious, Simon takes command and gets everyone out with Joe's help. Wow, but nearly drowns while saving the last child.

Speaker 2 Joe visits a dying Simon in the hospital, remarking how his small size worked to his advantage in evacuating the kids. They bid each other farewell before Simon dies.

Speaker 2 Joe's grandmother passes away that summer and he is adopted by Ben just before his 13th birthday.

Speaker 2 Back in the present day with adult Joe at Simon's grave, Joe's son, named after Simon, reminds him that he has a soccer game and they drive away as the film ends.

Speaker 3 Don't go to the game.

Speaker 3 An errant ball might kill you if you're a mother.

Speaker 2 And then don't go to the children's retreat because the bus home might crash into a lake.

Speaker 3 Have you ever heard something crazier in your life than the plot of that film?

Speaker 2 Yeah, the 2024 election.

Speaker 3 Period, bitch.

Speaker 3 You ate.

Speaker 3 What's 99 minus 91?

Speaker 3 Hold on.

Speaker 3 Eight.

Speaker 3 Thank you.