“Climbing Cringe Mountain” (w/ Matt & Bowen)

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Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and my latest interview is with Michelle Obama. To whom much is given, much is expected.
The guilt comes from, am I doing enough? Me, Michelle Obama, to say that to a therapist. So let's unpack that.
Having been the first lady of the entire country and representing the country and the world, I couldn't afford to have that kind of disdain. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Look, man. Oh, I see.
Wow. Bowen, look over there.
Wow, is that culture? Yes. Oh, my goodness.
Wow. Las Culturistas.
Ding dong. Las Culturistas calling Las Coconutistas, as it were.
Fell off the coconut tree of these girls. I mean, not that long ago, it was a bit on the show that this was going to be a talking Biden podcast.
I don't think it's going to be talking coconuts. I don't think it's going to be talking context.
I don't think it's going to be talking unburdening. We're recording this on Monday, July 22nd.
And gosh, just over 24 hours ago, we were rocked by the news. And I'm both engaged in a way that I have not been in a long time.
And I'm also like completely overwhelmed. And I'm like, I need to maybe get off this train, but it's not the time for that.
Yeah. I mean, I think that certainly Steve Kornacki has appeared on my television for the first time in many months.
And I said, we are so back. You know what I thought about today? Oh, by the way, I'm hitting that blunt in just a second.
You know what I thought about today? I literally had like a moment where I almost drove off the road thinking about like how triggered I'm going to be when I hear the word Maricopa, you know, like once we start getting into it and just knowing that we're headed there, which is, of course, in the macro, like a very scary thought. And I think in the micro, I actually am feeling very celebratory and very hopeful and very excited.
But there is so much left to go. And therefore, like I do completely identify with your overwhelm because I mean, even in the two days between when we record this and when this comes out, who knows what's even going to happen? It's just crazy.
Someone made a joke like, oh, I bet in 10 days we're going to forget Trump was even like almost assassinated. And it bizarrely feels true.
Everything is happening so true everything is happening so fast we just have to I hope that there is kind of a straight line all the way to middle of August but who fucking knows I mean you can't write this shit you can't write this you can't write it I mean truth is truly stranger than fucking fiction for sure I'm smoking a new Flamer joint a pre-roll from Flamer this queer run I'm looking at their website a bunch of hotties founded this love that and can I say is this the same way that you were smoking yesterday because my girl was happy, jovial and more can you talk about this because think, and this is the first time I felt this way in a long time. By the way, I put Flamer next to Sunday School, sort of the West Coast equivalent, although they are kind of making inroads in the East.
Come on. But I left our little meeting yesterday.
We had a little work session yesterday, and I was coming in stone because, Oh, this is my, I don't think so. My body is just fucked.
And I don't know why I need, I need to get to the bottom of it. But I was like, I need a little bit of sativa to just get me up and activated.
And I was like, Gabe Lieben has this joke where he's like, um, this thing happens to me when I drink, i'm amazing amazing and that's how i felt leaving leaving that session yesterday i was like that was i was a very good version of myself stoned in that situation i just love to see you so happy and i mean that's that's what i'm reacting to is like you were happy and like you seemed like yeah i was just so happy to see you in this mode. And also, wait, wasn't that like, that was about 15 minutes after he had announced.
That was literally 15 minutes after he announced. And so I remember, by the way, just like finding out from an Instagram thread, finding out on Instagram is so wild.
I want to know if you found out from like Pop Crave, email in. And by email in, I mean mean get our attention in some way online like because i know that pop crave whatever the fuck like that all these yeah that they were breaking news for people and because that is the world that we live in but you know just to speak broadly about it this is what we wanted and i will i will not lie when I saw that he posted that, I felt a moment of deep sadness and concern about what was going to happen because there was not an explicit endorsement of her.
I didn't know in that moment if that's what exactly I wanted or needed. I always knew she was super viable for it.
But there was a moment of like, wow, this sort of direct action that we all participated in to ensure that he was not going to be the one on the ballot because I just haven't felt confident about it in a very long time and couldn't pretend it happened. It was very sobering.
You know what I mean? And so then a half an hour later when he did endorse her and the endorsement started to come and the energy started to pick up.

And you saw at least what feels like right now feels like more unity than we have had. Not to say that she doesn't have her issues.
but it felt amazing to just feel like it was possible that we would retain our democracy

and that it was possible that we would potentially

make To just feel like it was possible that we would retain our democracy.

And that it was possible that we would potentially maybe end this story in the way that it should have ended in 2016. In the way that, you know, maybe things were meant to be.
I mean, I will say it does feel like Donald Trump, white collar thug, convicted felon, racist, rapist, predator versus Kamala Harris, prosecutor, black woman, Indian woman who's rising up as a new leader of this party. It does feel like the last chapter.
It kind of does feel like we're about to... It's giving series finale? It's giving series finale.
It's giving Big Boss. And I pray, and I am truly hoping, and I am hopeful we will have an ending that is a positive one, and I mean that.
And I am fully on board and will work very hard, as hard as I can, to make sure that Kamala Harris is elected president because the alternative is not acceptable. Thank you for putting it in those words.
I think we are untangling a lot of words and texts and thoughts and ideas right now in this moment. I'm seeing a lot of stuff.
I think I have a decent birth, B-E-R-T-H, of like a social media sort of like glimpse. You certainly do.
But who am I to say? But a lot of people, a lot of what i'm seeing now is um people being like great but also bummer that this was sure like the thing it's it was never about like his policies it was always about his electability and it's like yes that's not that makes sense in an election to be concerned about electability makes total sense it is not something to like discredit any part of this process that like shouldn't have happened except it should have but you know i mean it's like it's like we're all bummed that it happened except but it had to happen this way and right there is like a decent outcome on the other side of this is a there's an even great outcome on the other side of this no matter how you feel about kamala harris it's like she has demonstrated the capacity to move leftward on things even though for every progressive policy she's been a part of there seems to be like a conservative one that outweighs it and that's like a totally fair thing to level against her but let's just i think we really do need to do some collective exercise in like putting that in a compartment for now and i know we said this like four years ago about joe but it's like feels even more dire than that and there is no option of losing there is no option of losing and that's what we have to remember and like aoc put it perfectly there is no progressive enough candidate right now right to win and beat donald trump But like, you just have to think about between these two people, whose presidency do you want to organize under? Do you want to be active under? Do you want to like, try to like, push things in a certain way under? I think there's a clear choice here. And that's the phrase.
There is one choice. I mean, and I would say if you hedge on that choice, then you're not thinking about people much more vulnerable than you.
And I do think that is the way we have to vote. Fucking Brooklyn gay guys have to think about trans people in the middle of this country.
You have to think about black women. You have to think about low income people.
We have to. And I, by all means, vent your frustrations about what is happening but fucking vote for her yes yes and i also think i think we can engage on this like for the next hundred days or so in a way that is like um what i find effective is like just reframing things and like anytime i feel like from either side i'm being like moralized, proselytized, like getting a finger

wagged in my face that I'm like, anytime I feel like from either side, I'm being like, moralized, proselytized, like, getting a finger wagged in my face that I'm like, I'm totally disengaging. Like, I've, whenever anyone feels like they are being chastised in some way in this kind of conversation and this kind of discourse, like, that does not seem to be effective.
And so I feel like maybe as a last culture exercise for everybody, for readers, Katie's publicist, finalists, like the way you try to engage around this, if someone does seem

to be pushing back is just to like reframe it in that exact way where you're like, well, what would it be like to try to like make positive things happen on a collective level in one outcome versus another? Like that is that that's helpful to me. And I would also say, I don't think we have been we've really not weighed in.
You know what I mean? We have really not weighed in. But I did come out and say I did not vote for him in the primary.
I have been trying to send small messages to the top in the way that I can. You know, I was called the other day to fundraise for Biden.
And I politely told the person on the other end of the phone while I would be voting for the Democratic candidate, I don't feel I can send money until something is done. And something was done, and I would imagine they heard that a lot.
And now what I would say is that everyone's opinion matters, but there are facts here. Just like the way Joe Biden's feelings don't matter.
His feelings don't matter. I understand that he might be angry.
He might feel very sad and depressed about this. He might have a lot to look at in terms of where he's actually at, the way that politics works.
I mean, he should know more than anyone. He might feel a certain way.
His feelings don't matter. Just like our feelings don't matter.
And that's kind of what I'm getting to is it's like, you can have feelings. They don't actually matter.
The facts matter. It matters that we live in this world and we exist in this world and we do what we need to do, which is we get this man off the world stage.
And just to speak about her, she is left of Biden. She is.
And many people do believe he is the most progressive president we've ever had. Lots of people on the news who may have a reason to say this feel that this was by far the most successful presidency of all time in these four years.
I do think there's a lot of, we're leaning on it. What is happening in Gaza, the humanitarian crisis there weighs heavy on my heart.
Know that. And we must work harder for the ceasefire.
At the end of the day, Trump would burn the world. He would burn the world.
And listen to me now. If you are listening to this podcast and hedging, my diva, I want to cradle your face in my hands.
He would watch you die, sweetheart. He would watch you die.
And I don't say that to scare you, but if it did, okay, you can't. And I'm now militant about it, actually.
And, you know, I didn't need more reasons to be angry at Teresa Giudice, but I did see her just like Amber Rose's Instagram. Get that woman off my television ASAP.
We're done with Trump. We're done.
Larsa Pippin. Larsa Pippin.
You're burnt. You're toast.
Toast. And if we see you, what's on site? I just can't with these clowns.
I can't deal with all these hoes. All these hoes.
All these hoes. I can't deal.
What do you think about Kamala being brat-coded now? Here's my honest take. Gohan.
I think the coconut tree memes were on a parallel track to like all the itch ball remixes. I mean, like that was like, and then I think what's happened in the Venn diagram as it were,

like it all started to become one circle.

And I think like all the arms and tentacles of this thing have like

collapsed into one shape.

And the shape right now is,

Oh,

okay.

I guess Kamala HQ is running with brat visuals with brat girl summer with all these things my honest honest emotional response and again my feelings don't matter and so maybe my thoughts don't matter but i am flashing back in trauma to is this our pokemon go to the polls is this the moment like Pokemon go to the polls for me? That's all.

I think they were hot off the heels of the Charlie tweet and maybe that's what's going on. And I'm sure they will change it in like, I hope a week or something to something totally different and like not quite as- Right, let's not have brat-coded visuals in October.
No, no, no. But you know what I will say? someone as fucking cool and relevant and

progressive October. No, no, no.
But you know what I will say? Someone as fucking cool and relevant and progressive and, you know, international as her coming out right away, that's different than I think we've seen in a long time. And it actually makes me very hopeful that not we're going to get in line.
You know what I mean? It's not that. It's just that we're taking this seriously in a way that's bigger than us.
And if it convinces people who are still trying to be too cool for this, that maybe they should take it more seriously because at least Mother is. You know what I mean? Like, then I i'm for it i don't know if i need kamala doing the apple dance i don't want to see it there is a line i think her best move is to ignore all of the memes give a moment or two of acknowledging coconuts or unburdened or whatever and really stay above it and be presidential and just hold Trump accountable and stay very focused on the task at hand, which is still a very difficult thing, which is defeating Donald Trump.
And I think let the internet have fun because it seems to be working in a healthy way at this point. It can turn so quickly.
As we know. If what

we're fearing is

she leans in a little bit too

hard on this at an event or something

and you're like, oh. And at that point,

it's fully Pokemon go to the polls.

100%. I was having a lot of fun

on TikTok yesterday. I'm suddenly very

active on TikTok. I don't know.
I see that.

Don't. And there was a

lot of judgment in the voice. No, there wasn't and there was a lot of judgment in the voice.
No,

there wasn't. There was a lot of judgment

in the voice, and I'll just call it out right away

because I'm in my truthful era. My tone

is, you are not going to let,

and I love you for this, you're not going to let my tone,

which, let's say I did have a tone, I

vehemently deny that I had a tone

and that I was judging you, but let's say I was,

you wouldn't let that stop you?

No, certainly not.

But I will say, I was having a lot of fun

on TikTok, and I did find myself

Thank you. No, certainly not.
But I will say, I was having a lot of fun on Tic Tac and I did find myself sort of giving something like this. You might like Trump, but my kink is Kamala.
And then I realized so much works with her name. So much works with her name.
Too much works with her name. And I was like, listen, if if we can sort of i don't know if this is a word but celebritize her and there is a lot with her that works for this i mean with kamala harris what you do get is a sort of glam factor you get a saturday night live characterization that isn't sorry but like depressing or pathetic mean? Like, it's not like, oh, look at this clown who's asleep or this monster who's like, thank God they found someone to do like what's actually kind of a measured characterization of him.
Like, you know, like Johnson's job. Yes.
I think he does an amazing job. He does.
He does. I don't think that Alec Baldwin-Trump worked at all because it was just so broad and scary and monstrous and weird that it so obviously came from a place of like, it just wasn't working.
With Maya and Kamala, I think what you get is a really fun game, which is she is a glamazon who maybe is, you know, a capital P politician and that there's a little bit of ego there. But you don't get a sense that she's like dumb.
You don't distrust the person doing it. You're actually quite excited to see the person coming on and doing it, which I think there's historical precedent for at that show.
What I don't think is precedent is that if you take Hillary, it's like the characterization there, and maybe this just speaks to the way that it was accumulating through decades of political life. The characterization was like, she's shrill, she's bullish like I'm not likable in all these ways right right and like who knows what the dialogue is there it's hard to parse out the dialogue there between like the reality and like the the sketch character of it but between Kamala and Maya it's like well these are like two like personable people and like Maya's characterization was never like, and this is a credit to people who've helped work on that character, Cough Cough, Sooty Green.
Yes. But it's like, this is not a shrill, this is not like an unlikable, detestable fucking succubus of a woman that like kind of at that, like between Hillary and Sarahah palin which is like i think like the last big the other big like female political impersonation on that show in recent memory it's like those are like caricatures that get blown up to like literally ridiculous proportions they are ridiculing these people with kamala and with maya it's like there is something very that feels nice on the palate is how i'm gonna put it's fun to watch you know what i mean and i will say i did always enjoy the hillary on the show but i will say i do think that and this is obviously you have to make it funny first and and it was always funny, but sometimes I worry about feeding into a characterization that reinforces a negative opinion of that person.
Now, mind you, on a show like that, it is equal time, whatever that means. It's like, I don't know about inviting the candidate on because, correct me if I'm wrong,

you have to have both on if one of them comes on?

That's not true.

Oh, is it not true? Or like at different times, obviously, right?

Right, correct. I don't mean on the same

episode. I thought I remembered something about

like, if one candidate

comes on, you have to have the other one on.

Oh, I'm not even sure about that. But yeah, I guess

Hillary came and then Trump hosted the same election the same election and then i'd remember that reality holy fuck literally went to that show um went to that taping anyway and then i guess obama and john mccain yeah okay so well because i don't think biden came through right biden never went no biden never, at least in the last, since 2008, has never been on SNL. Right.
So I feel like there's something to that. And maybe the fact that it is different now, it's like, I feel like you might, we may have enough with just Maya's Kamala and, you know, the Trump that we've had on that show for a while, it might be enough.
You may not need the real candidate to come through. And especially if it's a situation where, well, if she's going to come through, then I have to come through or at least have the option.
I would imagine that, you know, he's going to take that option. Though I will say, I do think there is enough anger from the Trump people and there's enough disdain for media that I can see them passing on that opportunity similarly to how I can kind of see him backing out of this debate and you see him sort of planting the seeds now he's not debating her he's think so? There's a reason why people who get prosecuted at trial usually don't...
Take the stand. Usually don't take the stand.
Because, like, a prosecutor knows what questions to ask or how to, like, elicit a response out of someone, anyone they're talking to, basically. Yeah.
Then I don't know if this is true, but I hope it's true that if he doesn't want to participate in a scheduled debate, that she still gets that time on national television to address the nation.

because I am sure she is obviously itching to do that and obviously would relish the opportunity

to prosecute him live in front of America

as the felon white collar thug that he is

and actually hold him accountable

and call him out on the litany of bullshit that our current president was unable to do, which is why we could not move forward with him. So now you have the whole Trump organization running scared because, I mean, this old campaign video from 2020 came out and she was not a good candidate then in the totality of things, but there is a moment and there is a time for that moment to be met.
And that kind of feels like now when you look at this old video of her being like, you know, and this is where you kind of appreciate that she is a cop and a prosecutor because she puts people like him away in her sleep. She eats people like him for breakfast.
She did have that one very good debate which birthed the that little girl was me moment and then she quickly sort of plummeted in the polls I think because Tulsi Gabbard pulled some bullshit on her. Tulsi.
One of the biggest flops in modern history, Tulsi Gabbard. I mean, give me a fucking break.
But we won't talk about this whole episode. In the grand scheme of things, it's just nice to feel like there's a path forward.
And it's nice to feel like on the other side of all this cringe, there's going to be nirvana. And they say that about cringe.
And it's my favorite thing I've learned recently, which is, you know, you have to sometimes climb up a huge hill of cringe. And once you can scale that hill, which is, you know, it might be your judgment on yourself.
It might be your judgment on what you're doing. It might be everyone saying what you're doing is cringe.
On the other end, there is you slide down into happiness and nirvana. Bitch.
And I'm not saying things would be fucking perfect afterwards, but we'd have a country. I know about working through cringe, climbing a cringe mountain.
I work at Saturday fucking night live. The cringiest thing in show business.
On every level. Climbing Cringe Mountain title of F.
Climbing Cringe Mountain. Cringe Mountain is SNL.
Eternally grateful that I work there. Will be the defining thing of my life and career.
And yet it is a Cringe Mountain. Because to live through working at SNL.
And to have people constantly tell you how much it sucks how bad it is how it's not as good as it used to be for your career you that has to do something to you psychologically where you emerge and go i don't give a fuck i feel like you know what it is it's like y'all put on wigs and you go up there and you work so fucking hard no it's not even but it's not even cringe because of what you do because i don't think it's cringe but i will say in what i'm saying which is that everyone has a fucking opinion it's the most popular show in the world it's been now been on for 50 years it is is capital C commercial culture. And therefore it's cringe because everyone is like, I'm having something to say.
And it's comedy and it's subjective. And it's corporate.
And you know what I mean? It's all those things. And that's also what we're kind of going through.
But on the other side of it, guess what, Bowen? you get to actually the visceral thing of people laugh people feel good and that is why we're doing this and that is why america is worth saving so that we can protect people and live up to what this actually all is fucking about and now it's getting very broad but i'm just saying like to you to me to everyone fucking get over yourselves and like work at what you do and be proud of what you do and be proud of who you are and be proud that you know what's right and wrong bless king to put it mildly bless bless I just want to say one more thing I want you to say so many things I just want to say one more thing about the cringe theory as it relates to my job and not the fate of this country so I'm sorry to like you know yeah the way I sort of like melded those two things but I do think I tried no you really brought it home that was such a slay this is what you me and Sudi have been saying for such a long time like all of these fucking guys who like go up on stage and do stand-up or would do improv or sketch like we know this person this let's say he's straight these guys were like i don't know like what i do is cool and edgy no bitch you go on stage and you talk in a microphone in front of people that is theater which is gay it's gay so just embrace it don't like like that's the analog for cringe in this context it's like i'm over these people who are just like i don't know it's like just do it so that you can like every now and then you do something because it's not cool and because it actually benefits something outside of you even even though it is locked into all these other terrible oppressive systems. The motion is up at whatever axis, okay? Like, just do it.
Can I tell you something, honey? Can I tell you something? I'm a singing Christmas comedian. I'm cringe.
I'm Matt Rogers. I'm cringe.
And people buy tickets to my shit. And I see them afterwards.
And they're living. And you know who else is living? Me.
It's my fucking dream. And had I not climbed Cringe Mountain, I wouldn't be looking at my fucking vinyl over there.
And I'm not saying this because I feel like I did something. Which you did.
I'm saying this because I'm happier for having gotten out of my own way and not giving a fuck about the bullshit. So what I'm saying is get out of your own way.
Stop giving a fuck about the bullshit. Climb the cringe mountain that is this election and that is Kamala often because now now guess what? She's fucking brat-coded.
And if you think that's cringe, your feelings don't matter. We're going to save the world.
Period. And now I've hit my blunt.
If it has not been obvious. This is Bowen Yang.
And Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers. And Bowen Yang.
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hey kids it's me kevin smith and it's me harley quinn smith that's my daughter man who my wife has always said is just a beardless version of me and that's the name of our podcast beardless

with me i'm the old one i'm the young one and every week we try to make each other laugh really

hard sounds innocent doesn't it a lot of cussing a lot of bad language it's for adults only or

listen to it with your kid could be a family show we're not quite sure we're Every week we try to make each other laugh really hard. Sounds innocent, doesn't it? A lot of cussing, a lot of bad language.

It's for adults only.

Or listen to it with your kid.

Could be a family show.

We're not quite sure.

We're still figuring it out.

It's a work in progress.

Listen to Beardless, S***less Me on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What else has happened?

Has anything else happened?

I have an I don't think so many that's sort of related to this

just because there's one figure in politics

that if I ever hear his name again,

and it's not even one of the top five you're thinking about,

maybe it is,

but we'll get to it.

Okay.

What else?

Oh, Remy Wolfe, period.

Soup!

Girl, where have you been?

This is not quite as egregious because I think what Matt Rodgers will dine out on for the rest of his life is to say that he introduced hordes of people to Chapel Rhone. This is not quite the same thing.
But I've been up in this podcast shouting at Remy Wolfe for a bit. You definitely have.
In fact, last week, I called out a different Remy. Yes.
And her summer song. And you were like, Remy Wolfe? And I was like, oh, no, but also, yes.
And I have been aware of Remy Wolfe for quite a while. But someone I dated liked her.
I think it might have been George. George loves Remy.
Yeah. And so I've been a Remy Wolfe fan in a soft sense.
But now, like, this new this new record it's really great and she deserves to take her place and i am excited about seeing her live because i heard she puts on the show she puts on the show you need to go go back and listen to her old albums all the way through like just oh i certainly will start to finish wonderful songwriting yeah and by the way with the chapel rowing of it all i am just happy that people got on board in the way they have i it doesn't even matter for me because of course and you know you don't you don't every single time i i say listen it was a straight man that told me about her and i say his name with my full chest mat, Matthew Vaughn. And I say, he is due the respect because he actually tried several times.
And I was like, girl, please. Like, I don't know who that is.
And I just can't have you introduce a pop girly to me. He was right.
He was right. Sometimes you have to listen to these straight men.
Like sometimes they might, they might really know something. And this one knows, he knows something about multiple things.
Careful the things you say. Careful.
Children will listen. Children will listen.
What else has happened? I've had such a crazy fucking week of my body. Here's what's going on since Italy for me.
What do you think it is? Yeah. I don't know.
I mean, it's not a bad thing on its face, like me being a morning person, but I am only getting six hours of sleep, which I know is a clean REM cycle thing, but I do want to feel refreshed, and I have not felt refreshed in a while. But that's a lot for you.
Six is a lot for you. Girl.
It was probably last year or six months ago, eight months ago, where you said just plainly that you're used to four. We need to figure that out.
Is that anxiety, you think? Or like, are you eating right before bed? Like, what do you think it is about the sleep? I think it might be anxiety. It might be my mattress.
I think I might have to swap out the mattress for something softer because we were shooting a month ago and I was laying down in a bed for a scene and it was a soft mattress and I kind of went, wait a minute. You were like, maybe this is what I've needed all along.
It's that thing. It was right under your nose the whole time.
Not to do. Soft mattresses.
No, literally. I'm telling you that might be it because, okay, I'm going to reveal.
I actually avoid my apartment in New York now. And I think it's actually coloring my New York experience.
Mad. Because that mattress hurts me.
And this is another thing I'll say about Barry's bootcamp. I am obsessed with Barry's bootcamp.
I really feel like I look the best I have and I'm so galvanized and I love going. It is just hard on your body if you're not really taking a long time to stretch.
And about a month ago, I was being really lax about the stretching and sleeping on a bed in New York that was, let's say, very firm because the person that owns that place has not a great back and needs a very firm mattress. I don't have that until I'm not stretching and I sleep on a bad

mattress. I am now

sort of obsessed with LA again

solely because of the mattress here, which

is what? Let me tell you

a Helix Midnight. Clap, clap,

clap. I'm not trying to do an ad, but

I am giving testimonial

in many different

ways and saying

this actually is the shit. And my sister got one too.
And she's happier than ever. Billie Eilish.
Hmm. It sounded like Billie Eilish was your sister there for a second.
I don't think that we are, but I'll do the 23 and me. Mm-hmm.
Eilish, Irish. Yes.
I am just recalibrating things right now i really am trying to get gut health in check yeah i literally i ordered a pooping kit yeah i gotta poop i gotta scoop i gotta send it back to the lab oh so you're you're doing it you're pooping in a bag i'm poop pooping in a bag and I am waiting for my microbiome readout so I know what I need to focus on in the gut. I mean, if it's going to help and yield results, I say try every fucking thing.
Poop in that bag, sister. For my second brain, which is another name for the stomach.
Holy fuck. Where did you get that?

Or did you come up with it?

No, no, no.

A lot of gut health people say that.

That the stomach is the second brain?

You know what?

Yeah, because it thinks for itself.

It talks to your brain.

And it thinks for itself.

Wow.

I love that.

Your stomach is your second brain, honey.

Sometimes my stomach has bad ideas.

Let me tell you something.

Sometimes my stomach is my, you know, first brain.

And sometimes my brain is my second stomach.

No, we talked about this. Do we did? We did.
Remember we texted about this? I told you. Oh, maybe I said this to Jared.
But I told you. Okay, I'm just going to be really honest.
Because I'm in my honesty era. I'm TikTok-ing a lot.
And I'm here sort of saying, go Kamala. so I'm in my honesty era I'm tick-tocking a lot and I'm here sort of saying go Kamala so I'm just going to come out here and say this within this year I have let's put it like this lost my shit and it happened very close to my actual bathroom and it took me by surprise.
You did tell me about this.

I shit my pants actually,

because I had eaten badly the night before and I had a cold brew and I was actually,

I knew it was going to be an emergency.

And so I was in the elevator and I was like,

Oh my God,

this cannot move fast enough.

And it quite in fact could not because in my elevator in New York,

let's just say I ruined my Brooks Marks pants and I'm sorry Brooks it wasn't it has nothing to do with you it had nothing to do with you in fact I would say I felt so comfortable in your stuff you know what I mean and I also know I'm putting this out there and I'm sort of getting very fecal and I'm sort of joining my sister in fecal confessions and fecal confessions and one more thing about that Brooks Marks thing um his initials are bm and they're all over the pants and that's what you had I hadn't even considered that until now you had a bm and a bm and that's actually real culture number 19 I had a bm and a bm yeah so but luckily he had sent three pairs so I still have have my other two, but the other ones had to go. So what I'm saying is my stomach was acting as a second brain where it actually, I'm telling you, I was thinking so hard with my brain and trying so hard with pretty much every part of my body, including it.
My stomach was making executive decisions. decisions executive function was in the stomach 100 and the butthole was an accomplice yeah i mean that is like um you know i think like parasympathetic like your butt kind of like i always thought the butthole had a mind of its own, but I think the stomach is the one pulling

all the strings. Stomach

is like the

twist villain at the end of a movie.

Like, it was her all

along. Yeah.
Can I say

something? I know this was not everyone's

favorite episode. The Tyler Henry

Hollywood medium episode. I know that it was not

everyone's favorite episode. Not everyone liked

that health came up during that reading.

It's iconic. He said to

me, you need to watch your

Thank you. Hollywood Medium episode.
I know that it was not everyone's favorite episode. Not everyone liked that health came up during that reading.

It's iconic. He said to me, you need to watch your

stomach and your gut stuff. And I was like,

okay. And I

do think now it's sort of an iconic moment

because let me tell

you.

The spirits got me on

that one. Let me tell you.

That doodler knows what he's talking about.

But wait, can I say this is another

reason. He has the gift.

This is a reason why you can't be eating bad at night. And I ask you, do you ever eat like really late or eat garbage at night? Sure.
You do. Okay.
But this is all part of my own pooping in a bag journey. Like I'm really, I really want to get into not, I'm not like aura ring coded.
I'm not about to get my fucking like all my biometrics so I can optimize and shit. I just want to know.
I just want to poop in a bag and know what my microbiome is. That's all.
I really just want to know names. I want to know like, Ooh, I'm going to eat more spirulina, like whatever.
Yeah. Well, first of all, yeah, it's going to improve your life exponentially.
One thing you can definitely do though, right on the outset, one thing you can definitely do is just not eat before you go to bed because I do think that that, look, just confronting our mid-30s head on, there's something with that. It's like my stomach, when I was doing that and I've had to fight, especially as someone who loves a reefer in the nighttime.
It's hard. You cannot eat before you go to bed because your stomach is so pissed off in the morning.
And you wake up so much earlier than you would have. Yes.
Because your stomach's making decisions. Of course.
Second brain.

If you are going to eat something,

little baby tomato,

little carrot stick,

little grape,

that'll do you.

Yes.

You know what?

What?

You're right.

And literally,

you know what I've become really obsessed with?

Cucumber.

Bitch.

You've never eaten a vegetable more refreshing.

Literally. It's hydrating.
It's aesthetically pleasing. It's easy to prepare.
And get this, you can even dress up your cucumber. This is what you do.
I feel like Anthony Porowski. Yes.
I've actually never felt more like Anthony than recently. We love it.
Negative. I don't care.

I'm climbing cringe mountain and I'm sliding down the other end.

I love him.

Guess who climbed cringe mountain.

Anthony.

And guess who's got many books out and looks like Anthony.

Come on.

Sometimes I see pictures of him and I'm like, well,

there he is.

The world's hottest man.

And it's okay.

It's okay.

Anyway, irrespective of that. People think that about me all the time.
It's literally like that's something the three of us all share. It's okay.
What I'm saying is this is what you do. You chop up your cucumber.
I'm with you. You get a little hot sauce.
I think I'm with you. Like mild.
And I'm not talking about like go crazy. I'm talking about like some Cholula even.
You put a little bit of Cholula on the thing, a little bit of salt and pepper, a little bit of salt and pepper. But then what you do is you just rub the cucumbers all up around in the hot sauce and stuff.
So it's almost like dressing. It's like almost like like buffalo cucumber.
And then you eat the cucumber. It is the best snack.
It's actually a nominee for best snack. Best snack? Yes, Mo.
How would you see it on the card? Best snack. Cucumbers with hot sauce.
A little salt and pepper. It felt like that.
A little salt and pepper like eating buffalo cucumber? Yeah. I don't know if I would go as far as to call it buffalo cucumber because I think what you immediately think of is fried cauliflower.
This is still on the card? This is still the nominee name? No, no, no. I think it should be.
I personally, all of a sudden,

a nominee has like a subheader,

like a, like a below the line.

This nominee deserves,

yes.

Fellowship of the ring.

This is cucumber,

buffalo sauce,

but the thing is,

a little bit of salt and pepper,

and then you,

dot,

dot,

dot,

dot,

dot.

It's like a Fiona Apple album.

It's a Fiona Apple album.

Well, anyway, I'm, I swear by by this snack and I learned it from my father I got it from my daddy let me tell you something if you climb Cringe Mountain you slide down the slide. That's what I think is on the other end of Cringe Mountain, like a slide, like a really fun slide.
I'm very into slide culture recently because I went on a vacation where they had a water slide. And you saw me at the Bahama the first time we went.
You knew I'll do any water slide. You love a slide.
Love it. Slide cane.
I don't care what it does to my back in regards to scratches. I really don't.
I love going down a slide. I love...
There was something I recently did where I was like, oh, it was when we were in Sicily. I never did jump off that big rock.

The big rock. I think it's fine.

I don't think you needed to do that.

It's a big rock.

But you know, I was diving off the smaller rock.

Yeah, and you were having a great time.

And I think sometimes you got to cap it

and be like, that's enough for me.

Yeah, like there was no real reason

for me to dive off a rock that was,

how high would you say that was?

That was like 70 feet high. 70 feet high.
Seven stories, Matt. Come on.
You don't need to do that. Yeah.
You really don't. There's a little part of me.
This is who the little kid in me is. And this is maybe different from the way you were, but I don't think so.
The little kid in me was an aspiring daredevil. Was obsessed

with doing bungee jumping

and... But I don't think so.
The little kid in me was like an aspiring daredevil. Like was obsessed with doing like bungee jumping and like really couldn't wait to jump out of a plane to the point where I jumped out of a plane at 18.
Yeah. And I've never been the same.
It was horrible. Horrible.
Human beings aren't supposed to do that. What's the most extreme thing you've ever done? I really don't think I am an, I've done extreme things.
I guess, you know what, if I could use conjecture on you. Yeah.
Have you ever done like black diamond skiing? Um, sure. Then maybe that.
Maybe that. Like, if you can think of the sensation of that are you comfortable no see i i hate it so it certainly can't it shouldn't get darker and worse you mean like double black diamond like what i'm saying is like darker in terms of like why we're doing this like yeah like throwing yourself out of a plane is dark it's so dark oh that what you're saying.
Yes. It's like bungee jumping.
It's a little dark. It's like, why are we doing anything where you're not going to die, but like more likely you could die.
Much more likely now that you could die for however long you're doing this activity. I think anytime you yourself become a flying projectile at high speed, you've placed yourself in a more dangerous...
At high risk for death. Correct.
We're now at the level of high risk. And the high risk is relative, of course, but you just have to think about relative to what? Because relative to you being on the ground, so much higher capacity and possibility for death.
If you're up in the sky and about to jump out of a plane. I think about what it felt like to careen through the sky.
What do you remember? Walk us through. Honey, I remember the whole, you know, there's video of it.
I have to find the DVD and put it online. It is, first of all, it's me at 18, fresh from graduating, so closeted.
Like, he's in the voice. Doing the giving shows.
Giving shows. Like, they strapped me, because you have to do tandem.
I'm sure I've told this before. But, like, they strap a man on you so you go tandem.
This guy had the highest, spikiest, like, hair. I joke that I don't remember his name, but the only name I can give him in retrospect is Trask.
He seemed like a Trask to me. First of all, you have a thing with the name Trask.
You love Trask. Has it come through before? I'm flashing back to all these moments before we're in a sketch or in an improv show or something.
You'll be like, I'm Trask. And I'm like, okay, this guy loves the OC or he loves East of Eden.

Something.

He loves Oliver Trask.

You know,

whenever I'm Trask and know that if Bone and I ever write or create

anything,

wink,

wink,

and there's someone named Trask,

that character,

there's something about that character.

If we ever name a character Trask and you ever in media,

if Trask ever appears, know that that's for a reason because this guy was such a Trask. We, the way that you skydive and I went with all my male friends and my one girlfriend, Lorianne, and you have to sit 30,000, no, 13, what is it? 13,000 feet in the air when you skydive.
30,000 when you fly for real. I'm shaking my head.
You have to sit 30,000. No, 13.
What is it? 13,000 feet in the air when you skydive. 30,000 when you like fly for real.
I'm shaking my head. You have to sit on like they open the door and you sit with your legs dangling.
Nothing beneath you. And then you go, you literally go, you rock one, rock two, and then you are supposed to front flip out of a plane.
And then after the one flip, you sort of like toss your arms and legs back and sort of get into like, almost like you're a soup bowl, belly down. That's like the position you're supposed to be in with someone on your back.
That sensation, you sort of adjust to six or seven seconds in because it starts to feel like when you put your hand out of a car window on the highway, just that air. You start to just feel, once you adjust to the zero gravity, you start to just feel that all over your body then it gets a little fun then by the way this is all on tape then they pull the parachute and what they don't tell you is when they pull the parachute bowen it fucking pulls you yes but that's not even the worst part yes there is a jostling and you get pulled and you like land there's a 10 to 12 second feeling of euphoria that you did it then you realize the worst is yet to come hun because you're still 3 000 feet off the fucking ground.
And there is nothing beneath you.

But there is a man on your back. And he's Trask, babe.
And Trask doesn't play by the rules. It's something to know about Trask.
Trask has the ability to sort of like make you go left and right. And even in some cases do like flips as you go down.
They'll ask you if you want that. It's just whether or not you're an 18 year old closeted person whose number one goal in life is to make straight men feel like you're okay.
You know what I mean? If you're not that person, you might say something like, no, no, no. Oh my gosh, I've had enough.
Let's just float down. I'm not really feeling great.
Or you could be that person and you say, for sure. And you end up- What person were you? You were that good.
You were for sure? I was me. I was me then.
Were you then? This was me then. Because I floated down for nine minutes, dry heaving, vomiting in my shirt with this man on my back, spitting into my t-shirt, coughing, spurting, spitting, gagging for nine minutes until we landed.
And then when I land, I have to find this video. When I land, the camera picks me up again.

And I'm cross-eyed. I pull myself

up off the ground. And then go, you're gonna do

it again? And I just give a thumbs up like

this. Get the screenshot.

I just give a thumbs up

like, yep, I'll be back. And then they

freeze frame on my face.

By the way, the song that's playing is like,

we're going to the place where we belong. Hell.
That's the song that's being sung. I just made that up, but that was the genre.
And I've never felt worse or more terrified in my life than in that moment. It's all on tape.
And that is when I developed fear. That moment is when I developed physical, atmospheric fear.
I always had emotional fear. Again, closeted, 18.
But this was different. I no longer identified as someone who wanted to push any limits.
That is, to me, and please tell me if I'm out of line, so fortunate that you have this on tape. Because guess what that moment is? Tell me what it is.
And tell everyone, too. Well, there's climbing Cringe Mountain, and then there's jumping out of Cringe Airlines.
Yep. And you jumped out of Cringe Airlines at the literal peak of your cringe, which was I need to make sure these straight boys still like me and think I'm funny and want to hang out with me.
Yes. And I hope Trask like doesn't mind that I like the way his crotch feels on my butt.
I have to tell you I couldn't have been less horny. I was gagging, spurting, vomiting, and spitting in the air.
I wasn't even thinking about dicks in my butt. And later, I would all the time.
Of course. Not soon after that moment, I'm sure.
No. You literally were throwing up on yourself your own fucking discharge covering you.
Oh, yeah. Being humiliated by these men who ask you after this life-threatening, violatory experience you've had, go, want to do that again? And you have no choice but to throw your thumbs up because your psyche has been so, for an life bludgeoned by patriarchy that is all on tape so you can watch it you can document but like you can you literally have something outside of your own memory of it that exists where you can point to that and be like this is the the day that I climbed Cringe Mountain, that I jumped out of Cringe Airlines.
Yeah. You are a better person for it.
Oh, I 100% am because I'm alive. Who knows at that rate? Had I enjoyed that? Get this.
This is the part where the story gets really fucking crazy. So one of my friends, Kevin, loved the the experience and the guys were telling us about

their job the the people that would jump tandem we were like how many times you guys do this a day

trask goes 19 times a day is usually how many times i do that i go holy fucking shit and i guess

it computed to us as these guys do this every day let's say they work four or five times a week

Thank you. do that.
I go, holy fucking shit. And I guess it computed to us as these guys do this every day.
Let's say they work four or five times a week, 19 times a day. They jump out of a plane.
I don't know. Let's say a hundred times a week.
And they've all done this for a while. It just doesn't happen that there's accidents, right? You know what I mean? Like, clearly, this is just like any other recreational activity.

It's like going to a theme park and strapping into a roller coaster. You're actually safer there than you are

on the open road. Got it.
It's a monitored

thing. Never mind the paperwork they make

you sign before you can even do it that's like,

if you die, you can't sue. Never mind that.

It doesn't happen.

Kevin went again.

I,

babe, when they landed, which they did, thank God, the guy goes to him, dude, we had to go to the backup shoot. He goes, what? He goes, we had to go to the backup shoot.
I pulled the first shoot. The thing didn't come out.
It has never happened to me before. I'm not going to lie.
There was about a 10 second period

where I was really scared

on your back. Really

scared. And then I just got my

wits about me and pulled the backup shoot.

And thank God I remembered where it was, etc.

But

the point being

they had

to go to the backup shoot.

What?

What? And he never went again this is the perfect thing to unpack for you for the state of the world you don't have to jump out the mountain like just because you think it's going to be exciting it's okay let someone else jump out the plane jump out the plane you mean jump out the plane climb the mountain you don't know what we're saying i mean if you don't have to climb cringe mountain if you don't have a cringe mountain in your horizon bless you i hope i pray that you never have to climb cringe mountain no i think everyone should climb cringe mountain everyone should climb cringe mountain well yes this is like my theory on like queerness like not everyone has to be queer and not everyone will be queer but they should be i think that would be nice you know like that's how i feel yeah but it's not like it's obviously not prescriptive and there's no agenda there it's just but then what would set us apart? If everyone's queer,

no one is.

Well, anyway. I hope you don't have to climb Cringe Mountain, is what I'm saying.

But everyone should, because more likely than not

you will come across

it in your travels, in the travails of your

life. Cringe Mountain will be right before

you. You will be at the base of it.
And you

have no choice but to climb.

Or stand. Or stand.

And I guess, oh, this is the last

thing I want to say about it. You know who absolutely was there? The only parents to come watch it was Richard and Katrina Rogers.
Richie and Trina showed up and they were like, no, we're going to watch it. I think my mom had it in her head that like, and I used to have this when I was a kid too.
Sometimes like I a little kid would every time my mom left to go to the store I would be like I'm coming and she was like you don't have to come and I was like no I'm coming and I think in my head I was like if I'm in the car there can't be an accident oh yeah of course invincible kid syndrome and you think like I'm going to protect my mother by going in the car with her. Like, I know if I'm there, we'll be okay.
Because nothing can happen to me. Right.
I think that my mom thought like, well, I'm going to go watch it so I can actually see it and it won't be such a big deal. Can you imagine if your parents are there when you throw yourself out of a plane and hit the ground? I mean, I was going to say that they're very good parents for coming and showing up and watching.
No, they are. But that's even more sad.
No, no. That's just love is not sad.
They love you. They love you.
You ever seen the movie Simon Birch? No. It's about a boy who's different different and he plays baseball and he gets on the team he finally gets on the team it's like they accept him and his best friend's mother is played by Ashley Judd and at the end of the movie like Simon Birch finally gets to like hit the ball he gets to go bat Simon Birch connects with the ball hits the ball it's a beautiful moment whoa the ball goes into this guy in the parking lot Ashley Judd is getting out of her car the ball kills her hits Ashley Judd in the temple of her head it they run they run over to Ashley Judd, everyone runs over to Ashley Judd.
The coach takes her pulse. She's dead.
Simon Birch looks at his best friend, whose mother is dead, and played by Ashley Judd, and he says, I'm sorry! And runs

away forever.

That's

what you get for being a good parent

showing up to the games. You get a

foul ball in the temple.

You die for no

reason. Simon Birch was

released on September 11th,

1990.

Wait a minute. That is such a tragic day.
Can I say it's really close to number 50? September 11th, that is such a tragic day. I did not know that Ashley Judd's character dies.
Can you read this? Just vindicate me here. Read the synopsis.
Go to the end. Okay.
By the way, sorry everyone. Spoiler for Simon Birch, a film released on September 11th, 1998.
Really the height of Ashley Judd. During baseball, Simon hits the perfect pitch.
It becomes a foul ball that hits Rebecca in the head. Killing her.
Killing her. Simon gives Joe his prized baseball cards as an apology to which Joe gives Simon the stuffed armadillo as forgiveness.
He's not forgiven for. He hit a foul ball and it hit a woman.
He murdered. No, he didn't murder.
This, you can't even go to... This is an accident.
He murdered her, Matt. It was cold-blooded murder.
Keep reading because it gets worse. Joe can't...
Joe couldn't forgive Simon. Keep going.
Joe's grandmother informs Joe that her own death is imminent due to her age, and there must be a

plan for him once her time comes,

as Rebecca never told anyone

who Joe's father was,

even in confidence.

Simon believes that Joe's father

may have taken the baseball that killed

Rebecca.

Teaming their gym teacher

a fitting candidate, they break into his

office to see if he has it, but it isn't

there. Overwhelmed with despair joe vandalizes the office the police chief agrees to release them if they go to the children's retreat over winter break this is there's a lot of plot happening in this i thought that was the end of the movie i guess not no there's there there's two more paragraphs, babe.
Wow. This is...
Well, just see, look at how it ends ends. Please.
While Simon and Joe are riding the bus home, it crashes into a lake. With the driver abandoning the bus and Russell unconscious, Simon takes command and gets everyone out with Joe's help.
Wow, but nearly drowns while saving the last child. Joe visits a dying Simon in the hospital, remarking how his small size worked to his advantage in evacuating the kids.
They bid each other farewell before Simon dies. Joe's grandmother passes away that summer and he's adopted by Ben just before his 13th birthday.
Back in the present day with adult Joe at Simon's grave, Joe's son, named after Simon, reminds him that he has a soccer game. And they drive away as the film ends.
Don't go to the game. An errant ball might kill you if you're a mother.
And then don't go to the children's retreat because the bus home might crash into a lake.

Have you ever heard

something crazier in your

life than the plot of that film?

Yeah, the 2024 election.

Period, bitch.

You ate.

What's 99

minus 91?

Hold on.

Eight. Thank you.
It's time for I Don't Think So, Honey. This has been, you know, this has been one of those episodes that did it all.

I'd say.

I absolutely agree with you.

And right before we,

we go into,

I don't think so,

honey,

I do have to,

and I know we quote this like once every couple of years,

but,

um,

someone to just randomly post for no reason,

really.

I'm just posted the scene of Valerie Cherish walking into the HBO offices and

season two of the comeback.

And it is,

I think the funniest scene, one of the funniest TV scenes in history. Started it all.
Sopranos started it all. Sex in the city started it all.
I guess I'm one of the girls now. She laughs and then she goes over to the Sopranos.
Sopranos started it all in a different way. Oh, and I, and then she turns to, no, no, no.
Then she turns to like, um, like true blood or something. She goes, I don't know that one.
Four of them. She was like, no, don't know that one.
I don't know that one. Don't know.
Girls. Of know girls of course Leela Durham the first she goes oh this oh here we go and she sees the poster turns to the camera and goes new girls new girls maybe the funniest part of the whole scene which I totally forgot about I love her new girls Leela Durham Durham.
I think it's Lena Dunham. It's what I said, Lena.
And then she looks at the poster and it's the perfect scene in terms of character shit too. It's like, you know everything about Valerie Cherish in this one scene and she only says like 12 words total.

I mean, first of all,

Valerie Cherish is one of the greatest characters in television history. It needn't

even be said. Period.
There is

really no world

and oh my god.

I just thought to myself, there's no world

why she doesn't have an Emmy for that.

Congratulations, my

sister, on your Emmy nomination.

The third one in this category.

Fourth overall.

Thank you, sister.

Very honored.

Only six nominees and, like,

fucking Bo and Yang.

I really didn't think it was...

I really didn't think it was going to happen

because I, like, I checked...

You deserved it.

Here's what happened.

I checked one prognosticator

and, like, whatever.

I have, like, I have my Google alert for myself

just, you know, just so i'm on top of it and like in the little clipping of the article it'll always say like you're like whatever your name whatever the google term is and then like this this the word surrounding it and like i was, oh, based off of one little

gleaning of it, I was just like,

I don't think it's happening this year.

No problem. It's a weird year.

I did see you were on the bubble.

I, of course, look, I just, I loved the Emmy race

and you were on the bubble, but I was like,

oh, I really just hope that

people actually remembered how good

your work was because you deserved it

and I'm so happy. Thanks, Queen.
I feel like I had my best season. I think you did.
I was really proud of this last season. So I'm really honored.
And it's this thing where, let's get real. Let's get honesty zone.
I brought this up in therapy because I had this whole thing leading up to the nominee. I knew what day they weren't going't gonna announce and i i was like cool got it but i'm not gonna like emotionally build up anything towards that because i'm just like i know what this is like and like yeah it doesn't happen it's like to get it and not get it exactly and um and getting it is the whole thing too of like wow like am i putting too much meaning basically I went into therapy the next day being like, I like have this thing I want to talk about here where I'm like, I had this flash of a thought in my head that it was like, should I feel bad for feeling good? And then my therapist was like, like raised his eyebrow.
He was like, well, there you go. Like, I think you just answered your own question.
I was like, oh yeah. Like, why would I get in the way of that? I just mean like in terms of like reading up about award shows right now which is a fun

thing I'm doing um for reasons that don't really have to do with culture awards it's just i was given reading material michael shulman's oscar wars fabulous yes so good so readable very thick and encyclopedic but like the way he writes is so narrative and fun i am gonna pick that pick that up right away. I'm in the market for a new read.
It's wonderful. Matt, you're going to fucking love it.
Like, you know, the reason the Academy was starting in the first place was to like prey on like an industry of fragile egos and reward them with something annually so that they can like be, be motivated to like produce work at a level that like was not very reasonable at the time time and it was like both an anti-censorship body great but also an anti-union body bad so it's like it's so complicated like the reason louis b mayor and all these people started the studio had started the oscars was because it was like a way to like literally create this validation system that like is meant to make people feel good or bad. And so in that way you also create an industry.
Totally. And that's what's happened.
And that's what has happened in other industries outside of film. And wow, crazy, like so fascinating.
And then that ties into all this like therapy stuff that I'm talking about where I'm like, I was really like meditating on it and like really like working outside of any model of like feeling validated by it. Cause I was like, I think like, I'm really proud of my work.
That's all that matters. No one else can define that for me.
I am so not even like above it. Cause I'm certainly not, but I was just like, I was, I was so removed from it that I was like, I can put it over there.
And if it, and if the, the nice thing happens, great. If it doesn't, no problem.
Like, I mean, I'm'm totally your perspective on it was developed and good exactly especially after for the third year in a row producing and hosting an award show a fake award show that has this thin gauzy layer between taking itself just seriously enough and not seriously at all and also exists to satirize that concept yes well yeah and then and then like thinking about like the emmys or the real thing it's like or any real awards system it's like that that that thin layer is just moved to a different place it's just a different balance of seriously and not seriously so i say all this and my therapist just goes well bowen it's entertainment like you like you doing your award show is entertainment it's kind of the same idea like everywhere like it is it is to entertain people it's a show it's a show and i'm like totally and that and that like was kind of liberating where i was like oh I'm just part of a show you're part of a show and also just to actually you know for a second the weight that it deserves you're a part of the show and not SNL we're talking about the same thing you're part of the show because the industry that you're in and your peers respect you so much and think if we're going to represent who we are, he should be there.

And it's interesting to hear you talk about it because I feel similarly.

In fact, I did just say the other day, what's crazy about the business is, especially for a comedian's coming in, I would be really

interested to talk to some of our comedian friends who ended up being in that arena.

It's so wild because when you're coming up, the thing that makes you successful, I think,

and the thing that's the North Star and the thing that you all share is you don't take

yourself that seriously.

And then you're able to really show who your authentic self is and you're able to really tap into what makes you special because you know what?

You actually climbed Cringe Mountain in that moment and got rid of your checkpoints in order

to let yourself be who you are. And then yes, maybe be viable in the business that you work in.

And then when you are, you look around and people take themselves so seriously to the point where you're like, wait, there wasn't just one way into this. And a lot of people have been validated in a different way.
And so they're going to approach this in a different way. So when I hear real stories about people campaigning for awards who drive themselves nuts and make themselves so unhappy, I just think, what a shame that they don't have perspective on this thing.
But also at the same token, you want it. I mean, Amy Poehler has an amazing take on this in her book.
Oh, I love her talking about this. She talks about like she talks about like, you know, she really, Amy Poehler really doesn't win a lot of awards.
She's nominated a lot, but I feel like the Emmys have not come as freely to her as they have come to like a lot of her peers. For example, I saw this stat the other day that Maya like wins Emmys like left and right.
And now she's nominated again a bunch. And we all know Tina has a ton of Emmys.
Amy won like a Golden Globe. And then outside of that, there hasn't been much.
And she was talking about it. Like, it's like, you're almost resentful of it.
Like, it's exciting because it's basically like telling a kid, like there might, there's going to be cookies. And some of you are going to get to eat the cookies but only if you're good and it's like wow beforehand i didn't even i didn't want the cookie i didn't care about the cookie i didn't care i was like just playing in the yard with my friends now there's cookies inside and only a couple of us are going to get it and it's merit-based kind of yeah you know what i mean it's weird it's a weird thing and then the original taking that seriously is like is like unfortunate but also you want the fucking cookie because the cookie is going to taste good and this cookie if you eat it you like get hotter it's like there's some incentive because of the way the industry is going to feel about you once you've eaten that particular cookie it's loaded it's weird yeah it's loaded it's weird and like there's even a lot of healthy conversation now about um like i'll just say for the way that like snl fits in a category, like the comedies where, right.

Um, it's one thing that SNL like is not evaluated,

should not be evaluated,

frankly,

on the same level as like these like,

um,

narrative script,

narrative comedies.

And,

um,

yeah.

And again,

that's not to say,

that's not to say that you're not grateful for it and that you don't

deserve it.

It's just the way they characterize it and categorize it rather is

bizarre. Characterizing categorize.
Yes, yes, yes yes yes yes and it's also this other thing of like there's this whole existential thing that's happening with like the comedy categories in the like as well it's like there's two different things and so like it's a really like it's really refracted for me and i'm kind of like okay i'm just like happy to be along for the ride, even because none of this makes any sense. Yeah.
Like everyone in my cast should also be nominated, frankly. Like I do have this weirdness around like knowing for a fact that like I represent one very specific way that SNL is represented and it only works if it has this multitude of all those ways.
And like everyone who works there and I mean this and I've always thought this, I mean this from the bottom of my heart. I feel like everyone who works at SNL is really, really just trying to like put on a good show at the end of the day.
And that's it. Yeah.
Sorry. I'm getting so stoned and I'm like, I'm like, no, I think it's very like real and I hadn't thought about it like that.
You know what I mean? It's like, there are so many pieces that come together to deliver that, especially at that show. And there really should be, I think if you're going to have a variety sketch category and a variety writing category it only makes sense to have a variety performance category like because to compare your performance and like ebon moss back rack's performance is odd you wouldn't do that unless it was a show that you were making up to give out trophies you know what what I mean? So if we're going to do that, then at least put a category there that could actually honor more talent because so many people on that show deserve that honor, but the characterization of what constitutes a supporting performance in that comedy is just like not necessarily one-to-one inclusive of whatever one does.
And also variety performance does not I don't think it necessitates any sort of like lead supporting like thing at all. It can just be its own categories.
If you if we don't move out of this gender binary categorization, then like it should just be two categories. You know what I mean? It's like, then just do the male and female, like whatever that is.
So it's just two more. I don't know.
Anyway, that's, this is like, these are like late thoughts that Matt and I have. There should be an individual performance category for not only just for SNL for like late night hosts for Cynthia Erivo performing on the Kennedy Center Honors.

For Cynthia Erivo singing

Alfie, she should be nominated for an Emmy.

Like, it's silly that

there's... It's television.
Yeah, and they used to

have this category, and they used to give

these out, and so why

wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you?

Mm-hmm. But anyway,

and I do think that you would have an Emmy by now

if there was that category, but regardless, and I think you obviously would have won this year because you're the only one nominated so just saying like there's a way to better quantify these things that then you could have more talent represented across the board and then the show gets more fun I think exactly exactly anyway gosh this is now we're doing I don't think so honey now I don't think so honey and I've decided I don't want to do the one I was going to do. I was going to say I Don't Think So Honey, Joe Manchin.
Do not fucking run, you clown. That's all I want to say.
And I'm just going to do a more fun I Don't Think So Honey because why not? Okay, great. This is Matt Rogers' I Don't Think So Honey as time starts now.
I Don't Think So Honey myself on last week's episode because I did not talk enough about how much fun we had on our vacation. We had so much fun on our vacation, and I feel like I talked mostly about the bags because they were missing at that moment.
It was frustrating. And it was moments before we were on the mic you got that call.
All that, and it was moments before. I like to retract my energy.
I like to contribute this energy. We stayed at the most beautiful resort in Sicily, and we both worked hard to be able to be there.
And I'm happy that we were able to get out of our own way and really enjoy that. Look at the fuck where we were.
The last night, I looked out at the water at the sea, and I was just like, my God, this is stunning. And I inspired myself.
I was like, I want to go more places. I want to put myself out there more in terms of travel.
It was a trip that really moved me forward in that regard.

15 seconds.

I loved swimming in that sea.

I just loved it.

I loved all the food.

I loved the people.

And I just had the best time.

Five seconds.

And like, yes, Amsterdam was incredible.

I'd been there before.

Taylor was amazing.

But I just wanted to like shine a light on the trip

and how much fun I had with my friends.

And I love everyone that I was with. And I just don't think so, honey to any thought.
That's not that. That's one minute.
Well, I'm so happy to hear that. And for me, like you and travel.
Yeah. It didn't occur to me before.
Like, I always feel like you are such a, you have such a worldly mind. And yet you, I feel like you are entering this era now where you're like, you want to see the world.
You want to like participate in that activity of like traveling. You know, you guys, there was a minute where it looked like maybe we were going to get to go to Paris for the Olympics.
And then that didn't work out, but I was excited about it. I just, I want to go to lots of places.
I think, you know what happened? Like last year I went to Sydney and I loved it so much. And I was like, I had been to London a few times that year.
I was like, I need to travel internationally more because I've just seen what happens when it feels like that moment passes people by. Like I'm from a very blue collar Long Island family where we only ever really vacationed in Florida.
I mean, I was going to California was huge when I was 22. Like, Oh, you only ever went to Florida.
And I just feel like, you know, that's not a given with people. I think that's a thing is it's like, you know, I've, I used to feel like I was climbing cringe mountain, you know, saying like making the joke, like, ha ha, I've only ever been to Epcot.
I could only go to Epcot. Like my parents could only afford Epcot.
You know what I mean? So now it's like, I don't know. Like I'm connecting with the intrepid bitch in me and wanting to do more things.
And it was just when I heard myself back on the episode, when I listened to it for edits, I felt I was like sick to my stomach the whole time. I was like, God, i hate myself on this episode because that was not my experience i loved it but that was you being so fresh from like bad news from like sitting in this like horrible feeling which was not having your possessions and like it's not that you're like um a materialistic person it's just that like our belongings like have this emotional hold on us.
Yeah. And there were other personal things going on that had been sorted and everything's amazing now, but like, you know, it's just, that was not a good day.
And I didn't want that to be the final word on that trip because I had an unbelievable time. Yes.
Bo and Yang, do you have an, I don't think so, honey. I do.
I do. I love, I love this energy before you start one.
I do. It makes me very, like, intrigues me.
It makes my nipples hard. This is Bowen Yang's I Don't Think So, honey.
His legendary time starts now. I don't think so, honey.
What's this gay guy thing where, like, you know for a fact you've talked to this person on the internet in some capacity, it's a dating app or it's an instagram dm or something it's like and you see them out in the wild and all they can do is just like furtively glance at you and like what like this is an endemic thing with all gay men it's like can we just like can we just like not make it weird if you know, you know someone and go up to them and like say hello. Like we're, there's just this, like, I don't know, maybe we're just shy and we're, we're, we're like prone to hedging when it comes to these social situations.
But it's like, I think we can just 15, not do the thing of pretending like, you know, you've never engaged on the internet before this thing happens i mean this maybe is particularly new york city but this just happened to me last night at public records kerry nation was playing they were wonderful but i was just like there was just that moment happening with bunch of times i'm like i know we know each other and you can just say hello yeah that's a minute but wait like how bizarre how bizarre like you and i have interacted and like we both know that we've interacted and so where's this coming from i don't know yeah and also a little bit of the messaging there is i was talking to you online and now i saw you in person and you're not all that so i don't want to talk to you right that's a little bit of the messaging and i think a little that's how i feel you know what i mean is that is that maybe what it is yeah maybe oh yeah it's totally a thing on like my own self-worth where i'm like well i guess i'm not interesting enough to be talked to you know like it's yeah like like that it's that it's just like it's the way it makes you feel about yourself and that's extra self-conscious and it was already hard to fucking come here you know I know. Anyway, I had a blast.
Yeah, no,

because ultimately you do climb Cringe Mountain and start to slow roll down the hill but that's literally a climbing Cringe Mountain moment where you're like, oh God. But now we're slow rolling down the hill because we've crested it.
I just saw Inside Out 2 and I thought it was so good and Maya Hawke's characterization of anxiety was amazing. I loved that fucking movie.
And I was dragging my feet to see it. And then I saw it and it was pure delight.
Love that. Well, that's on reparenting.
And this has been an episode of Las Culturistas that has been all about this. Reparenting society.

Reparenting ourselves.

It's all about that.

And the way you do that is through community.

And speaking of community, on Wednesday, you, me, and Sudi are going to have dinner.

And I know we're going to have dinner, but do you want to see Twisters?

Yes.

We should do that.

Yeah.

We should see Twisters.

Guys, next week, Twisters is going to be covered.

And maybe it'll even be a summer of cunt.

Thank you. Yes.
We should do that. Yeah.
We should see Twisters. Guys, next week Twisters is going to be covered and maybe it'll even be a summer of cunt.
Although I will say it's going to be hard with the schedules because maybe we can figure it out. Maybe.
Maybe. But it might be an autumn of cunt.
Just trust and believe that it's coming because it has never been more cunt than this summer yeah it's actually a very it's in in terms of matt bow and sudi it's been a very cunty couple weeks especially and it's feeling good the thing about sudi green is she's currently writing for the show loot and is going to be on set working on loot And also, Maya may be busy with a character that Sooty had helped her with in the past. So it might be a very Sooty 2024.
It's going to be a Sooty Q3, Q4. It's a Sooty phenomenon.
A what? A Sooty phenomenon. We love you so much.
We end every episode with a song. Hit it like Ram-pam-pam-pam.
Hit it like Kamala. You better vote for Kamala.
It's a Kamala-nomenon. It's a Kamala-nomenon.
Anyways. Anyways.
Your feelings don't matter. Bye.
Bye.

Las Culturistas is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeartRadio podcasts.

Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

Executive produced by Anna Hosnier and Hansani.

Produced by Becca Ramos.

Edited and mixed by Doug Bame and Monique Laborde.

And our music is by Henry Kavarski.