This Is The Reason (A Long International Nightmare) (w/ Matt & Bowen)

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Look, man. There.
Oh, I see. Wow.
Bowen, look over there. Wow.
Is that culture?

Yes. Oh, my goodness.

Wow.

Las Culturistas.

Ding dong.

Las Culturistas calling.

My girl crossed her arms before I counted down for the opening of this very fabulous podcast, Las Culturistas.

Can you talk about your body language for a bit?

So, we're going to get into lots of stuff that happened on our trip to Europe. But let's just say, suffice it to say, right now, I am still without my bags.
I am still without my bags from the trip. I am recording this podcast episode on an old microphone.
It's a very long story. They did lose my bags three times on this trip.
I still do not have them. My podcast mic is in there.
And I just got word, just got word before we started that actually Ita Airways, ITA Airways, which is like the Italian airline, I guess. Sky Team.
They, because of their, I don't know, a failure in how they do what they do, my bag is sitting at LAX. And if I don't get there in a few hours to be able to pick my bag up, they're going to send it to Central Bag in Atlanta or something.
It's just been a complete nightmare. And I am someone who's gone through life without ever losing any bags until this trip when my bag was lost in three different cities it really makes you go why check a bag ever oh honey and first of all I want to say let me not erase the fact that Bowen Yang's bag was also lost.

But honey, I am really making space for my sister here because what you have gone through feels like I felt like fucking Sandra Bullock at the end of gravity when I got home from this hellish journey tumbling through the void. I'm literally picturing you just like Trying to learn to use your feet again

Like in your apartment, like while in the background, it's like, I need to watch that movie again. The iconic score of gravity, which is just like a woman screaming in the back like, ah!

I'm just like, I love it.

And you know what? What a beautiful moment to illustrate the power of women.

And cinema.

That sustained belt as Sandra Bullock

pulled herself up off that nasty

beach that she crash-landed

on from space, honey,

after she was careening.

Wow, Sandra. Sandra, you did that.
You? I'm sorry, but, Bo, what's 10 minus 2? What is the number of badges per Pokemon region? Bitch, how many continents plus one? Girl! How many planets now that they took Pluto out? How many studio albums does Beyonce have? Cut to me counting. I think that's right.
Hold on. Let me see.
Cowboy Carter is the eighth studio album. Thank God.
Wow. Okay, it is.
Okay, I was going to say, can we do it? Oh, yeah, here we go. Well, are they counting the one with Jay-Z? I never really do that okay no here we go dangerously in dangerously b-day b-day sasha fierce sasha for self-titled lemonade renaissance and cowboy carter so that yeah perfect not even counting um the carters not even counting any joint albums which i personally that's my canon like when i think about beyonce i think of her as having eight studio albums for sure oh yeah well oh yeah and let's get back on the subject of your bag so I'm just gonna I'm just gonna supplement Matt's experience here by saying that when we get to Amsterdam all very excited to see Taylor Swift first of all our flight was delayed by a few hours no problem the six of us were posted up in the Delta Lounge.
It happens. Kicking, whatever, it happens, no problem.
But we get to Amsterdam, and we gotta say, Away, what a wonderful luggage company that has really served us a nice, streamlined design for several years now. It's gotten to the point where, at least in America, at least in the States, too many people have them.
And there are only a limited amount of colorways so that you are bound to get your bag mixed up with someone else's, which is exactly what happened to Matt. Yeah, I can no longer encourage people to buy this product because it has no longer become tenable in, you know, carousel, in baggage carousels.
Because what had happened was we get to the baggage carousel in Amsterdam and my bag does not come out. And I think, okay, it's okay.
I'm not going to panic. Then I see someone else's bag, not even on the carousel, off the carousel, with a name tag on it that has someone's full name.
And by the way, this is a dark blue standing hard case away bag. And it had a bright orange tag on it that said this woman's full name and all of her information.
And I thought, let me call this number because I'm sure she just took my bag thinking it's hers. But then what's the fucking point of buying the orange tag is my question.
Honey, this is where I start to get really frustrated. Ornery.
And you know how frustrated I got because what did I do to that carousel? Oh, I don't want to, I didn't want to say this. I want to show up today in my truth.
Okay, bless you, sister. And I respect you to the mountains and back.
My sister, Matt Rogers, in his expression of anger, kicked the carousel. I kicked it.
But that's okay. It's like, you know, I'm being dead ass.
Like anytime someone like punches a wall, you know, Adam drivers it. Like anytime anytime someone like hits thank God it's not a living thing but like you know Matt this is someone and I will speak on Matt's athletic prowess in another story in another travel anecdote that happened on this trip oh my God you know what I'm talking about yes I know but Matt really kicked the girl and um it gagged us we were like she's angry and she has every right to be suffice it to say we got in touch with the woman who immediately burst into tears and her boyfriend because she couldn't face me her boyfriend came back with the bag and it was like, yeah, thanks.
And thank God.

But can I ask a question?

How and if you are the kind of person who does this and listens to this podcast, I need you to turn off the podcast. And if you're driving, you need to drive off the road.
You need to Steve Carell in Morning Show. because anyone that just goes to that carousel,

grabs a bag that they think is theirs

and doesn't check the bag tag to make sure

in a world where away luggage is everywhere and everyone has pretty much the same bag.

You are a monster because this added a lot of time and a lot of stress.

And thankfully, like at least prior to the trip, you had your wits about you because you put a bag tag on your luggage if only you had thought to use that bag tag. So a couple hours later, we finally get it back.
And honestly, Amsterdam was lovely, was it not? Amsterdam was so lovely. Taylor Swift, the woman that you are.
You are fucked up for singing Archer into question for your piano and not to mention

guilty of sin into untouchable,

which is so underrated.

I can't describe what it felt like.

First of all,

it's kind of like it's even higher stakes than like waiting to find out if you

won an award.

It's actually,

you know what I would liken it to?

I would liken it to the finale of American Idol when the final two contestants are standing there locked arm in arm, looking at the floor, like weighing their future. That's what it feels like before Taylor Swift starts to sing one of the surprise songs.
And when she started Guilty as Sin on July 4th, 2024. You felt like Kelly? I felt like when they said the words Kelly Clarkson And that you were Kelly Clarkson herself We all were Well yeah, I mean I think we all experienced Chemically, like on a Neurological level, like What Kelly Clarkson must have felt like The moment she won American Idol, the moment she won American Idol.
Oh my God. We collapsed.
Bowen, I think the last time I felt that way was when we were there and she did clean. No, you, but you also felt that way when she did death by a thousand cuts, death by a thousand cuts.
You said in your famous words, as if a great leader had passed away, which literally 75,000 people screaming, wailing at the sky. Like we had lost someone who was crucial to the success of our humanity, but in a positive way, like no one could believe it.
Guilty as sin starts coming out of her mouth. Holy shit.
To say nothing of how good the Tortured Poets section was. And can you just talk about this? This is what we want to say.
If there's been any doubt, no doubt that has been born out of us and the way we've talked about Tortured Poets Department on this podcast. Nope.
Seeing it live, it all fucking just clicked i really love that album i adore it now after seeing it live and seeing just like i don't know on a shrooms level i was like well this is perfect 100 i was like oh i get it she wrote a 1975 album and just, she wrote a better 1975 album than Maddie could have ever written.

It's so cool what she's done.

That's all.

There was a moment where after the Torture Poets section in the Aeros tour,

so after I Can Do It With A Broken Heart,

which by the way is the moment of the whole show.

I mean, the production is nuts on it.

Bowen turns to me and he goes,

I feel like I already loved it, but now I truly get this album. And I just toss over my shoulder.
She's depressed. And then Bowen goes, well, yeah.
I was like, she was depressed. She got love bombed and then she wrote an album about it.
You're actually also getting me fresh out of therapy. Fresh out the slammer.
So I said to my therapist today, I was like, so, cause I didn't know if I told you this, but I've known for a couple of years now that there's something about Midnights for me. And anytime, any, by the way, someone that we're very close with, I would never say their name, calls it Flop Nights.
And I'm shaking my head. What I have have to say about midnights midnights is that girl and midnights is my last relationship every single song speaks to that experience to the i had this epiphany the other night where i was like listening to it because i've been watching like they do this stupid shit on youtube where it's like i listened to Midnight for the first time I listen to folklore for the first time like and that's just how I choose to turn my brain off lately and someone did it with Midnight's and was breaking it down and I'm like oh my god I lived this I lived this album and you talked about this in therapy oh extensively today and then I was like and then I feel like Tortured Poets is a perfect hangover after Midnight's.
I think Midnight's is her strongest concept. It's not my favorite.
It's her best concept to me. If we talk about Taylor Swift, the concept album artist.
Yeah. But I love that you have made this connection in your own life.
It will always be important to me because literally lavender haze into maroon into anti-hero i identify with and into snow at the beach which by the way justice for snow at the beach that song is fucking amazing i think it's even better when they release the version with even more lana del rey that's an better version. And then until you're on your own kid and then it's a midnight rain.
I said, no, this album is. And then forget about bone.
What was your favorite part of the concert? Be honest. Bejeweled.
Bejeweled. Yeah.
It's always going to be bejeweled. Just, I mean, just even the bracelets lighting up around the stadium and to tones, the way that all of these gems like on the screen morph into her face.
I'm like, come on. Like, this is ridiculous.
It's such an important moment on the concert because guess what? You, and I'm talking to you, the readers. I'm definitely talking to you, the Katies.
I know you need this. You need to hear this.
Everyone needs to hear this. You can still make the whole room shimmer.
You can. Oh yeah.
Best believe you are still bejeweled. This woman, I have it on good authority, did our show with the sinus infection.
Yep. She was wiping away snot and I can confirm.
You know what? I find it so refreshing.

Because it's like seeing Jonathan Groff spit at the whole audience. It's like being in the splash zone at Merrily We Roll Along.
It's like, yeah, these people have fluids inside of them, just like you and me. It's rule of culture number 18.
Yeah. These people have fluids inside of them, just like you and me.
You know what I was talking about this with? Lily Gladstone. There is nothing wrong with talking about shit or toilet humor, quote unquote, or poop, piss, things coming out of your mouth, because those are actually the only universal human experiences.
100,000% more people shit than feel happy, sad, excited, surprised, angry.

Like everyone shits.

Not everyone feels every emotion.

And you know, there's some sociopaths out there.

They might not feel every emotion.

They might not have empathy, but they do shit.

And that is the equalizer.

That is the equalizer. She 100% during Cruel Summer at the end when she's going with you, with you, she tossed her shoulder over and she looked, she knew where you were and she gave us a with you and we screamed, we, Taylor! Love her.

Anyway, bravo to Taylor.

Okay, so we do Amsterdam.

Then July 5th, we're supposed to board our flight to Catania,

which is on the eastern coast of Sicily.

We get to the airport.

We lounge in the lounge, as you do.

Mm-hmm. Looking forward to our trip trip matt and i had checked our bags along with some of our other friends and we go to the lounge then we get to the gate after some delays which we don't think anything of just i think it was three or four delays total just like little inching delays like 30 minutes 30 minutes, 30 minutes, 30 minutes, 30 minutes, two hours all told.
We were like, no problem. We get to the gate.
I look at the monitor and see that the flight is canceled. Canceled.
What? Hmm. Oh my God, what do we do? Then we all go back to the lounge.
On the way back to the lounge, all of us pull up our phones and see that all of our flights have been rebooked to different flights, essentially,

except Matt and I have been booked to the same one because we booked our flights basically together

on the same confirmation.

These rebookings are for like,

not like a few hours later,

but like two days later.

Days later.

So then we think,

oh, there must be something really wrong.

And also this can't be right.

So we go to the lounge

Thank you. Two days later.
Days later. So then we think, oh, there must be something really wrong.

And also, this can't be right. So we go to the lounge and we ask the women working at our airline's lounge, like, hey, do you know what's going on with these flights? Oh, yes.
All those flights have been canceled. and the woman who will go down in history as one of the great

deliverers of any lines ever for all time turns to us and says it is because the volcano has erupted

it is the eruption this is the reason six gay men face cracked all at once this is the reason

I'm sorry. It is the eruption.
This is the reason. Six gay men face cracked all at once.

This is the reason.

I said,

anytime you ever deliver bad news from now on,

you have to end it with,

this is the reason.

Title of that.

It is the volcano.

It has erupted.

This is the reason.

Now, to be honest, I heard that and i was like what and i was like i don't i think she's making this up it can't be and like where is there a volcano in sicily like i did not i listen this is where you go god i wish i could have worked at like a wine bar or something because Mount Etna, one of the few and maybe biggest active volcanoes in Europe, erupts at such a regular interval that like the soil there is amazing. The grapes that come out of there are world class.
Some of the best wines, some of the best Italian wines you could ever get are from Sicily or from Mount Etna region. But Mount Etna had erupted with spewing lava covering the town of Cotinian ash.
The airport was closed. Because obviously once the atmosphere is affected in that way, you cannot fly in and out.
Which, totally fair. Of course.
We think, okay, act of God, whatever. So now we're just like, we literally have a moment where we're saying okay so because the volcano has erupted tragedy has struck an act of god maybe we're not even going to sicily heartbreaking we start to decide where else in the world we should go we start thinking maybe we'll go to bahamar maybe do you remember when we almost went to Baja Mar? And then I looked up flights.
We would have had to pay four figures to travel 25 hours total with layovers. So that was not in the cards.
Then we find out, oh, the airport in Catania is reopening. And we're like, well, okay.
So are the flights back on? No, they are not. that only we in that three hour window i guess lose the flight everyone else rebooks for that same day etc so we deal with the legends these women were legends at the KLM lounge because so so we checked in it was a KLM flight so KLM is is the Sky Team in the Netherlands, like the Sky Team airline in the Netherlands.
They're partnered with ESA Airways, more on that later. But we talked to these women at the KLM lounge who really were legendary.
They were legendary. They got us rebooked on another situation.
So the four boys we were with, we're going to get into Catania like four hours prior to me and Bowen, who we're going to get there on a little bit of a later flight. We couldn't all work that out, whatever.
So then we, we go the next day, Bowen and I land in Catania. All the boys are there already.
They're sending us these pictures of our, like this hotel, the Villa St. Andrea, where we were staying.
It was so beautiful. We that worked there was so incredible.
It was just such an amazing experience.

But they're sending us these pictures of them splashing

around in the sea. We land,

our bags are not

there again.

Everybody has been there. Traffic was

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Yes. And they go, Matt, Matt.
And I go, oh my God, there's a wave. I take a small step forward and I made a huge difference.
I could have gotten my feet wet, Bo. Anyway, that makes sense.
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And at this point, we wait in line in the chaotic Catania airport. Oh, honey.
And I must bring up, and I brought this up to Matt when we we landed i said there's that 30 rock quote where it's both a jenna and jack quote because jack sets it up early on in the episode where he goes this is minhattan real estate liz there are no rules like checking in an italian airport no rules then later on jenna tells liz well this is min, Liz. There are no rules.
Like checking at an Italian sex party. The chaos of an Italian airport is unmatched.
And I've been to Asia. And some of these Asian airports are crazy, but not as crazy as all of the airports in Italy.
And I mean all of them. I'm sorry to generalize.
No, it was shocking. It was shocking.
But then we will say this. When we got to the front of the Lost and Found at Catania Airport, we were dealing with truly the one legend that worked there, which is that woman with that wonderful haircut.
Remember she had that crazy blunt brunette bob? Angled, blunt brunette bob. She had bayonetta glasses.
She looked fierce and she was doing her best. And she was very patient with us because I did get her seat, unfortunately, chewed out by an Italian man ahead of us.
And this woman just wanted a nice person to talk to her. And we willing to be those people even after all we've been through but we told her these are our bags this is where we're staying by the way i love your haircut and glasses and she kind of looks at me and goes i think her thought was and then she just kept looking for the bags was definitely a subtext of almost everything anyone said to us.
In fact, when we, so a couple days later, like cut to, we go to the resort. It's stunning.
It's beautiful. A few days later, we were actually on a boat and some guys who were cruising past us did yell the words Froggia Cine at our boat.
But Bowen, I wasn't really able to hear it. And that's because earlier that day, I had been stung by a jellyfish.
The jellyfish stung me in the waters. And I don't know what happened next, but I do know that I lost pretty much all my faculties, either due to the sting or heat exhaustion.
Both. So we get the bag back.
I finally put my bathing suit on. We get on this damn boat, which we were so thrilled to enjoy.
The water's so clear you could see to the bottom, but we are on the boat. I'm sick as shit.
But didn't get in the water and you were rejuvenated and this just confirms that you are a true pysian like you are of the water but the other creatures of the water that are not fish will come and get you they were threatened by me i think that's what were like, oh, this fish thinks he's somebody? Sting!

They got me, gal.

They took me out.

And I was miserable on this boat.

And if you look at pictures, it's just all the guys, like, jumping in the water, doing whatever, and me in, like, a full denim jacket, like, shaking like a leaf.

I was so sick.

And these men cruised by Froggacine. Ugh.
Froggacine. F-R-O-C.
Insult to injury over here. Froggacine.
Insult to injury over here. Damn it.
Insult to injury. Rallied.
You rallied. You were such a champion that day.
And then we get home and you were were like i don't think i can make it to dinner and then you you rallied yet again to come to dinner and we had a dinner we certainly had a dinner um and not everyone was their best self but that's for our private knowledge everything's fine now it's all water under the bridge but it got a little housewivesy at dinner and i would have preferred it not because we had been watching housewives but we also didn't mean to skip over this matt luckily got his bag back i would say what two days in two three days in yeah mine was on this delay i found out that it never left amsterdam i think neither of our bags had left amsterdam so like oh no, no, no, no. No, no.
Remember, my bag was in Catania the entire time. Your bag was in Catania the entire time.
My bag never left Amsterdam. I don't know how that works, but that's just ETA Airways for you.
And I, after much delay, this lost and found office in the Catania airport i mean that should be a more invested sector of that place because of what i imagine the common cancellation how common the cancellations are there like you better have like whatever bag retrieval lost and found system there, like be rock solid.

And it's one guy manning one phone. And so our poor concierge, Sandy, legend at the concierge desk, was calling every 15 minutes to no answer.
Same haircut as the girl from the airport. By the way, did you notice that? every woman in Italy

who has like the Lucia

from White Lotus Sicily haircut

is as much of a sleigh as lucia is yes so only trust women with that haircut in italy it's actually rule of culture number 30 only trust women with the lucia haircut in italy the rest of them are not to be trusted and don't i don even want to talk about the men. The men.
I don't know about the men. I think you maybe were asleep for this, but we had the guys coming over saying frottagine to us, whatever.
And then we had another guy come by and do a little Cate Blanchett like limp wrist yeah no there was it we were being attacked at sea but this is the thing like all of those guys I'm like not to be all legally blonde the musical but I'm like gay or European I was like I couldn't tell if it was them like being homophobic or them being like hey like y'all gay? Because it's just like, these are gay looking dudes. These are gay guys.
I'm sorry, but the aesthetic of a gay guy is universal and whatever these men do in the privacy of their own bedrooms with whoever they choose to do it with is irrelevant because y'all read gay and it renders your frottagini or your limp wrist from your silly little boats irrelevant and ineffective. So I actually don't really care that they were being homophobic.
I really don't. I'm like, oh, whatever.
First of all, last time I saw a group of gays in Italy, Jennifer Coolidge died. So I don't need to hear any more.
We wake up

the morning of July 12th in Italy.

Jared had left

on an earlier flight.

He lands in Rome early

in the morning and texts us.

I wake up before Matt does.

Text us, just got to

Rome. A bunch of flights to Catania are

canceled. Check yours.

Mm-hmm. I look up my flight number it's canceled canceled again because of more fumes from the volcano because of more eruption from the volcano i walk over to matt's room and i didn't realize what i was doing but I like rushed over to Matt's room and like he wakes up and looks up and goes what and then I freeze do you remember this I freeze because I was like I'm about to ruin this man's day my best friend's day I'm about to ruin it but you had to tell me the truth I did oh I said and told me the flight was canceled.
And Matt leapt out of bed with a spirited, you're kidding. And we were scrambling to find a way out.
We just wanted to get the fuck out as much as we enjoyed our stay there. It was just too, I mean, like, we had already pushed pushed the day we already extended the stay at the resort because we lost a day and a half and because like i was basically there with like my luggage on the last day and a half as well and then i immediately booked a flight to paris where we would have had to stay at a hotel airport to then wake up the next day and go back to JFK.
As soon as those tickets were bought, Eta Airways goes, just kidding, your flight is uncanceled. Yeah.
Giving us like minutes to scramble and get the fuck out of that resort from Taramina and drive down to Katana. Like the whole, like that airline can fucking eat my ass.

Choke on my ass.

How about that?

Suffocate on my ass.

I can't believe ETA Airways made us do that.

Basically, they're bad.

They are a bad airline.

I don't know how else you get in and out of that area of the world, but there has to be some other way.

There should be like some type of lawsuit that should be able to be filed. Like I feel so litigious because not only that Bowen, but this whole time, and I'm going to get to Katy Perry, but this whole time I'm thinking, well, at least we'll get home and there's no reason why my bag should go missing a third time Landon JFK your bag pops out mine does not now it is the last minutes of the trip and I'm without my bag I'm just like you know what I'm gonna go home it's July 11th the Katy Perry song is out Yes, 11th So I'll be like you know what? I'm going to go home.
It's July 11th. The Katy

Perry song is out.

Yes, 11th. So I'll be like, you know

what? I'll just in the car. I'll make myself feel

better because I know Katy Perry is going to

give something.

This is the worst song

of all time.

Can you believe

that it's called

Woman's World

I'm going to go with the bit that it was a joke, never corrected is actually the song the lyrics to that song are actually i've actually only listened to it two times because i i refuse to give it streams so intelligent she is what the fuck is she talking about that is kind of like the most minor offense to me. I think Jesse David Fox wrote a wonderful piece about how just because you call something satire does not make it any more elevated than, does not elevate any part of this work.
And for her to put out this video after the video comes out being like, you can do anything, even satire in all caps.

And it's just her being so uncomfortable on set for this BTS moment being like,

we're just being, yeah, like on the nose

and like just really like on the nose.

And it's like supposed to be stupid.

And then we're like being cheeky,

but like it's with a wink, but it's like on the nose.

I don't know what it was.

I think that American Idol and maybe Vegas made her think that the only way forward for her was to be more broad. Like, listen, it wouldn't even have to be a thing of like, kind of fuck her if she didn't have Dr.
Luke on it. Like you actually made everyone participate in this thing of like oh the katy perry comeback and then not only was it incredibly mid but you're just like waving in everyone's face that it's like tormentor of a lot of your peers because mind you it's not just kesha that he had a problem with no like kelly clarkson also in a deposition said that he was not a good guy and that all she wanted was to never work with him again and the label fucking made her so i don't know what it is with the music industry and this fucking dude but the listeners are not buying it especially when it also sucks what it's a woman's world and you're lucky to be living in it.
This is like a girl power platitude from 1999. This is like late 90s, early 2000s bullshit.
She's a sister. She's a mother.
Stream stupid Teenage Dream. Like, what are we doing here? This is a person who burst onto the scene with I Kissed a Girl, which was, in Bowen's words, serrated first single with personality that was different, that was specific.
This was never the way she planned.

Not her intention.

I mean, just read the Pitchfork article. Read the cut.
Read like any piece of media that's talked about this. And it would be one thing if it was just a mid song or a bad song.
Like it happens. but you literally went out of your way to be like,

no, it's going to be worth it to work with this problematic person because at least he's the best at what he does, I guess. That's not even true anymore.
Right. And it never will be again.
what's confusing is the lead up to it seemed so like they could have done it any other way besides

the way they did it which was

little drips little leaks little

snippets little things like lead up to it seemed so like they could have done it any other way besides the way they did it which

was little drips little leaks little snippets little things like actually we're going to be the ones to release the credits that include dr luke like that was after the snippets leaked and the whole internet was confused being like what the fuck is this and then like dope and by the they're silent about it.

Crazy.

They're silent about it.

She doesn't even say like, you know what? I see. And I understand the response.
Here's what I'll say back. It's just nothing.
It's just a complete disregard. The response was that you can do anything, even satire video, which I couldn't even make it through because I was just like, I...
Like, she's just doing, like, her bit voice, and all these background dancers are behind her, like, sheepishly, nervously grinning, being like, what the fuck is she talking about? Oh, the dancers looked like they were... Yikes.
They looked shook. I felt bad.
First of all, the video's nuts. Especially when it ends...
Even if it does track a satire, the way it ends with her holding up a ring light in the form of the feminine symbol and the TikToker being like, Who are you? And her going, I'm Katy Perry. With like the ring light female symbol in the air.
Like, what are you talking about? It's a tough time. Everybody has been there.
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I want to point out something just to move on from Women's World. Any closing thoughts? I feel like you have expressed yourself very very well.
I mean, I feel bad that the review of this song is coming on the heels of this trip where my luggage was lost several times and the stakes weren't so high for her and not only just her comeback, but making me smile again. She could have really turned it around.
And maybe it's the wrong single or maybe she just sucks now. I think there's an Occam's razor thing here where it's like the simplest explanation is probably the real one.
I can't. A fun moment happened on the flight home, though.
Before the torture began, in the words of Reba, I was on the plane. I was on the iPad watching something while Matt was reading a full-ass book.

And it was a fun little role reversal

because it was like,

I was watching season one

of The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills

and living my life.

Here's my thing.

I'm not that literate in the early seasons

of a lot of franchises,

but specifically Beverly Hills.

Oh, it's so good. I was like, God damn, I can't believe it was just right there all along.
And this is, from the beginning, so fucking good. Like, wow.
I did not realize that the Kim and Kyle thing is there from day one, from episode one. It's essentially the main plot of the show.
That's why I say Kyle is the protagonist because that's like... No, sure, totally.
That was the show. And the first two seasons of Beverly Hills is what Housewives always is trying to be.
There's certain seasons of different franchises, like season nine of Atlanta or even earlier in Atlanta too. Honestly, season four of Salt Lake.
Season 1 and 2 of Beverly Hills is one of those. Right.
What I cannot stop thinking about is how perfectly distilled of a housewife moment Taylor Armstrong the perfectly distilled moment of Taylor Armstrong saying if you can't my friend, please don't be my enemy. Don't be my enemy.
It's like, that is so the pathos in that is like, it feels like the classics. It feels like, oh, like it doesn't get better than that.
Oh, I love it. I mean, so I'm looking over and Bowen is like, Bowen turns his screen and it's just Kim Richard's face in a confessional.
And I had to laugh because I looked down at my book and I was reading mean boys by Jeffrey Mack. And I was just like, literally reading a chapter about how like empathy is the only way forward.
Like the last essay in the book is called me and boys. And like, this is really interesting and timely because you're gonna segue into this but it talks about the psychology of a mass shooter and of just gunmen people who want to kill people in general right exactly and just it's usually these broken men and i will say that book was excellent and i was really happy that i read it and i've been thinking about it a lot because I've been thinking a lot about like the drug culture amongst the gay community.
I've been thinking a lot about, you know, our collective mental health. Even after Taylor, in your shrooms moment, you had Googled in the night, why are gay men so sad? And I think that was and i really told you the next day i was like i

think it's a really good thing that you did that like i don't think you should be like don't chalk it up to like drugs or anything it's just like this is a totally valid thing to ask especially in the summertime when people are all across the fucking spectrum with their emotions whether they're like happy that it's summer they're with their friends or they're even even with their friends and sad and just very morose about how overwhelming life can be. I definitely Googled the words, why our gay men's so sad.
And I can tell you that it has a lot to do with the fact that no matter how happy we think we are, we, especially men of of our generation have internalized rejection to such

an extent that we come to expect it so that when it happens it's extra crushing but also it's

something that we're like low-key used to we live every single day with really the ingrained idea

like really in our dna it's it's our we are not valuable. And so that informs a lot of the way we react to each other, the way we treat each other, the way that we feel when we see other people succeed, fail, attempt things, the way that we interact with one another in romantic situations.
The way that we adopt certain conventions within a gay subculture or a culture within that culture, I think it kind of motivates specific drug use in the gay community. I think it motivates...
Why does everyone at Basement have the same sunglasses like i love that they have the same sunglasses but it's this like arbitrary thing of like we all sort of adopt these conventions these literal conventions these units of the culture and like it's all just like this crazy two mirrors facing each other but it's like actually millions of mirrors facing it's like it just gets like reflected into infinity and like it just amplifies like the pain and the misery and it's interesting. I mean, essentially, I think we're all just trying to be cool and individuals and we're all trying to like be interesting and we're trying to find community within community and we're all out here and a lot of what this book talks about is like the way that fashion and politics speak to each other and the way that culture they say politics flows downriver from culture so this is this is like one of the ideas in this book and so there's's a whole chapter about, you know, people going to Art Basel in Miami and how that's really more about partying, like exclusively about partying and not really about art.
But on the outset, it feels like something that you need to go to and participate in in order to be part of the culture. Right.
And then you go and you're just fucking exhausted and high. And then you're like, hold on a second.
Wait, why did I even come here? And that sounds like so many things. Yeah.
It's like everything. It's like going to that party, this thing, that, being pictured this way on Instagram, looking this way, wearing these clothes.
Like essentially all of these things are being decided for us by someone up top who is really unhappy. So it's just, it sounds like a dark book, but, and in many ways it is, but it was also very illuminating.
And I think very true. Yeah.
And I really, really love that. I'm going to read the ending, I think, forever.
I love, he ends on this hopeful note of like, is the only way forward it's like it is the thing that like it makes me think of sorry but like fleabag like people are all we've got like other people are all we've got right that is like the only way out of your the prison of your own mind or whatever like connection is important and

community is like the building block of like an egalitarian society and like what is happening right now in the culture is that like those things are being broken down and everyone feels disconnected and all these troubling things yeah and basic human empathy and understanding is one way to really connect with someone else and find that community because you're not going to find happiness in a sweater or a party or a drug like you're never going to find lasting happiness in those things and i don't know it was just it was just really refreshing almost to feel it put like that and a lot of reading it was very tough but i recommend it especially for you know gay men our age or queer people our age really or anybody it's very good but anyway that's why that's what i was doing while bowen was watching uh kim and kyle argue in the limo oh my god kyle like you take that back right now or just do you hear what you just said Do you hear what you just said? You are a liar and an alcoholic.

I love...

Such a fucking liar, Camille.

So good.

I will say this.

Back then, Kyle had a different personality.

Back then, Kyle was nasty.

Kyle was serrated.

She was not nice.

She wasn't...

What is Becca saying?

Producer Becca says,

my husband has treated you

like his second wife.

Jesus.

But like, wait,

have you gotten to the scene

where Kyle and Kim team up

and bully Brandi Glanville?

No, Brandi has.

Well, I do, of course,

know you're a slut pig.

Like that's iconic

Kim Richards right there.

Yeah.

Well, Brandi and one she Brandi's like new to the show in the second season and she comes in on crutches because she's hurt her foot or something and she's over their house and they're being so merciless to her and then they hide her crutches. I mean, that is monstrous, but also it's Brandy Glanville and that is like one of the most despicable human beings to ever be put on tv well i mean listen it i think that's what made her though like i think that that was the origin story right there i was like no because i remember i i went back and i was like oh there's brandy glanville like can't wait to see how crazy she is like here we go and then i'm watching it and i'm like no kyle and kim are the villains here like they're really mean they're they were being so mean and it wasn't until years later that like or maybe even a couple years later that like kyle became like sort of like the de facto protagonist who we all love and like you know the sweet gooey center of Beverly Hills.
But, you know, it's, it's interesting to see where, where she started. It was not what it is now.
Producer Becca says, except Brandy's son did piss outside, lol. Well, the thing like Brandy, like, I love that we're talking about season two of Beverly Hills on this podcast in 2024.
But I, I just can't believe I, I didn't know about the whole like Brandy fucking ruining Adrian's marriage thing. Oh yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
No. Well, it's crazy.
This woman has destroyed so many lives. She's, she's definitely chaotic is a kind word, but I also know that she's fucking going through it now.
And I, it's a whole fucking thing. Whatever.
I will say OC is great this season. I love OC.
So is Jersey. OC and Jersey are both giving, but Jersey is just wild because the more you watch Teresa's scenes, the more you realize what a warped reality she lives in.
Oh yeah. Every scene with her is completely berserk.
Like like in this last episode there's a scene where they like are going to a live show she's doing for her podcast which by the way teresa with a podcast is an interesting um interesting idea but she has the women like gather before the podcast taping and like this big quiet room. And it's just, you can tell they're all just like sort of trying to find something to talk to her about.
And Jen Aiden is just, she's just so sad. You can tell she's such a broken person that she's, it's coming out in very toxic ways.
And she was on Watch What Happens Live the other night, and it was really weird. And it just, the Teresa and Jen of it all, it just has to stop.
It's just got to stop. And like, you know, I guess if you want it to continue, then give Teresa her own show, and we'll see how many people watch it.
But like, this is not Housewives of New Jersey anymore. It feels like different shows one is like jen and theresa being these like sad dark clowns and then the rest of it is the housewives of new jersey and i feel like that's the show we should be watching but i'm not totally up to speed on jersey i am we're only one episode into oc at the time of this recording and I'm enjoying it very much.

Yeah. Shannon, Spike and Cameron saying perfect is.
Oh, so iconic. So good.
I mean, that was a great episode. And I feel like, you know, this is all the pop culture of right now.
What else? I mean, like a Gypsy Rose is pregnant. You know, good for her.
What else? Oh, right. There was an assassination attempt on Trump.
I guess in the grand scheme of things, I just want to say, I think it's fucking pathetic the way that the Democrats have handled this. I just think it's ridiculous that like the thoughts and prayers, like we obviously never want this to happen.
When is someone just going to stand up and say the truth, which is the fact that one of the reasons this can even happen is because the man that is the leader of this political party would do nothing to stop something like this from happening. Oh, you're kidding.
Someone who spews a violent rhetoric and makes this an even more unsafe country to live in day after day after day as we take this high road towards death like this guy finally had the violence turned around on him you don't say well and then the for the response from the center because that's what they are to be like to apologize for even existing is so devastating and so sad. And it's like sealing the fate of an entire country, world, whatever.
It's like, it's just, it's bad. It's really bad.
Just make it about guns. Let's just make it about guns.
If you want the gun situation in this country to change you cannot support the GOP you cannot do it if and even if we weren't just gonna make it about that let's make it about abortion if you want that to be an option in this country an option you cannot support the GOP like I feel like I'm going fucking crazy and obviously like I don't think Biden is the way forward obviously I people that are like, oh, well, Biden, I don't know, he can't string two sentences together. Sure.
While that's true, at least we would still have democracy and a chance to change these things. Like, huh? I feel like I'm living on another planet.
The effect that it's having on me is like what I'm kind of going through at the moment, which is just to like ignore, ignore, ignore, which is like not constructive, not productive. It's just like, it's kind of protective for now.
And I get it. I will come out of it.
It's just, I need this week to be over of rnc stuff and then and then who knows oh my god and the jd vance of it all like the fact that like he was out here saying that trump is hitler and like the this is literally i mean it's just it's comical this fucking joke of a human that they've chosen as the VP was out here being like,

I would never support him.

I would never vote for him.

You're sick if you do.

He's like Hitler, da, da, da.

And now he's just like gladly signed on the dotted line to be next in line to power. Like, if you don't see this, you're a moron.

Like, it's crazy, bro.

It's nuts. But, you know crazy, bro.
It's nuts.

But, you know, it's a woman's world.

We're lucky to be living in it.

Everybody has been there.

Traffic was a nightmare.

You got home late and your dinner plans are out the window

when you hear the inevitable tiny voice saying,

I'm hungry.

That's when dinner dread sets in.

What are you going to make tonight?

How can such a simple question be so hard to answer?

Well, it doesn't have to be

because a delicious, family-pleasing meal from Stouffer's

is only a ding away.

So if your dinner plans are derailed, don't worry.

Just turn to a delicious solution from Stouffer's,

a meal that will always leave everyone happy, especially you. Especially me with the lasagna, maybe some chicken enchiladas, spaghetti with meat sauce is always a winner, or how about some cheesy chicken and broccoli pasta bake? Yes, please.
When the clock strikes dinner, think Stouffer's. Shop now for family favorites.
Catch the new Hulu original comedy Mid-Century Modern from the creators of Will and Grace, executive producer Ryan Murphy, and director James Burroughs. When three best friends move in together, Palm Springs will never be the same.
Bunny, Jerry, and Arthur are already close friends, but when they decide to live together, it's a new chapter with a new family. And speaking of family, don't forget Bunny's mom, Sybil, who's along for the ride.
Whether it's a trip to Fire Island or a local congresswoman with a wild side, these roomies know how to do it with style. They're fun, they're fabulous, and they're turning life's lemons into spiked lemonade.
So shake up a batch of cocktails, relax by the pool, and get ready for some serious shade. A new comedy with heart, soul, and sass, Mid-Century Modern stars Nathan Laid, Matt Bomer, Nathan Lee Graham, and Linda Lavin.
All episodes of Mid-Century Modern are now streaming on Hulu. Okay, so I don't know if you've been outside lately, but I got to tell you, spring is springing, and it's giving me that travel itch like it always do.
I got big plans this spring and summer. Bone and I are doing some stuff together.
We actually just got back from Europe. We did London and Berlin.
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Quince.com slash culturistas. Is there anything happy going on? Is there anything good? I like the Kesha single.
Kesha single's great. I don't know.
Hard to say. We did have fun in Sicily and we did have fun in Amsterdam.
And Taylor was amazing. I really loved those experiences.
At least on like a, on a stress level, which is like what I tend to like, what motivates me to go on vacation. Like it came out a full wash, like with the travel stress on the ledger with the pleasures that were had, like it was balance net zero, which is not bad.
It could be worse. Oh, it could have been very, a lot worse.
Yeah, but I'm just saying like, ugh, all right. Like that's where I'm at with that vacation for now.
I'm sure like years from now, I'll like forget about like those bad travel memories will flush out sooner than the good memories of being in the destinations. There was a moment where I was swimming around in the sea, and I was so happy to be there, and I felt so free.
And that's when I was just like, you know what? Actually, it's not worth it to be nihilistic and fatalistic about everything. There's so many beautiful things in the world.
There's so many experiences to be had. There's so many people that are out there that don't want like the negativity and the darkness and the, you know, fucking hellscape that it seems like we're headed towards.
I wish that there could be projected more positivity, but I also think we're in a moment where we need to fucking snap in and understand and get that. Like, yeah, I hear you things that we take advantage of.
We take, we, we, we take it for granted, dude. And I know, I know we do.
I'm not all the way hopeless. I'm just like saying right now, the past.
Yeah. 72, nine, you know, 96 hours actually have just been a lot.
Should we move into I Don't Think So, Honey? Sure. This is I Don't Think So, Honey.
This is our segment where we take one minute to rail against something in culture. Matt, do you have something? Do I have something? Do I have something? I feel like this entire has been, I don't think so, honey.
Yeah. We can skip it.
We can, we can make history. No, I don't think we can.
Um, sure. I have an, I don't think so, honey.
Okay. This is Matt Rogers.
I don't think so, honey. His time starts now.
I don't think so, honey. No chicken Parmesan in Italy.
It's American, babe. It's an American thing.
It's so American. And that's kind of like at a certain point, it really was all I wanted.
I was like, I can't wait to get a big old piece of chicken covered in marinara and cheese. And then I was curiously on no menus.
And I said, I don't think so, honey, that I've seen it even offered. Then I come to find out when I say it out loud to someone like, well, why is there no chicken parm? Everyone's like, oh, that's an American thing.
And I was like, well, that stinks. Because I think one of the great dishes is chicken parmesan.
And I'm embarrassed for my lack of culture, but just how exactly did the chicken parmesan become not only such a staple Italian food, but such a marquee Italian food if it doesn't even happen in Italy or at least Sicily, it doesn't even happen there. But yeah, I don't think so, honey.
I was not able to get that. It is my favorite food.
I would have loved it authentically in Italia, but I guess I'll have to go to its authentic birthplace. What, New York? I don't think so.
That's one minute. Oh, this happens all the time with like, quote unquote, like cultural foods.
It's like there's Americanized Chinese food, like things on a Chinese menu here that you would never, ever find anywhere across the great big country of China. I mean, listen, here's what's great for us.
If we want our favorite things that are Italian, but not Chinese, but not,

we have them in spades here in America.

You just can't go get it in a place where you think they would absolutely

knock it out of the park.

Totally.

Totally.

Do you have an I don't think so honey topic?

I do.

It's a little inappropriate, but here we go.

Inappropriate?

Yeah, you'll see.

You'll see why.

This is Bowen Young's I don't think so honey.

His time starts now.

I don't think so, honey, when cute straight guys aren't gay. I was at a wonderful event last night helping to support Sean Wang, the Oscar-nominated director of Night Night in Waipo, which is the documentary short that was nominated at the Oscars this year.
It's on Disney Plus. If you want to check it out, it's 17 minutes.
But he's coming up with a movie on July 26th called Didi. And it takes place in 2008.
It's like a coming-of-age story taking place in California of this Chinese kid who's growing up with an older sister and a single mom. The grandma's living there with them.
I have never related a movie more at least not in a while um joan chen is a fucking force of nature she's one of our fucking best put some respect on the name joan chen um watch shoo shoo um the sent down girl wonderful movie i can't recommend it enough um i five seconds feel like sean wing is the perfect example of straight cute guy who just is just a wonderful person inside and out um same goes for eric nam who was also at the dinner um k-pop star from atlanta gosh i mean like they're missing out we're missing out it's a shame sometimes you know like sometimes you just feel that way about certain guys you're like oh what that's a bummer and that's one minute and change and i have to say i agree with you sister i mean sometimes i'll meet a straight who has that thing 99 of the time i'll meet a straight guy i'm like yeah no problem even if they're like wonderfully attractive or great on paper whatever i'm like no problem i i can cope with that but every now and then you meet a couple people where you're like, damn. Who sticks? Who sticks? I know.
And they stick and we're like, oh, that stings, you know? Well, I recently embarrassed myself. It was like a month ago we were doing game show and one of the contestants, one of the straight contestants, that's famously the conceit, is that there's two straight contestants competing.
And I have such a crush on one of them. Can you say? I actually said, I didn't realize he was in front of me, but I said out loud, like, oh my God, I would throw it all away if he were ever to decide he was gay, etc.
I think I know who you're talking about. And he was right there.
And I didn't even realize he was there. And I was so embarrassed.
And I felt like I had embarrassed him. And I was but that was my vulnerable moment I know but it's okay it's okay to have a crush like it's just like and honestly sometimes it's nicer to have a crush on a straight person because at least now you don't know you don't have to deal with any other bullshit because that's a whole other thing that I'm so annoyed about right now which is like dating in the summer or like trying to engage with guys in the summer.
Forget it. You're all so annoying.
All anyone

wants is attention. And then you

give them attention. I'm so

over it. I'm so over it.

Stay out of my DMs

if you're just

trying to get me to...

No. None of us have the time

including you.

I'm talking about you, like these guys. Like you have in the words of Jerry Blank, bring a book, bring a book, read a book.
It's ridiculous. Like when it's like, don't engage with me in a way that would suggest you're down to like, see if there's more.
If like, if that's not true, it's fine. I get it.
It's the summer. Everyone wants to have their fun like little single sexy summer i get it just don't play don't play in anyone's face y'all play too much you're playing in our faces what i'm encountering on multiple occasions in recent weeks i'm not really complaining about this although i am because it is just kind of like fucking annoying is like guys talking to me on the apps, like expressing genuine interest, flirting.
And then, Oh, I see what the end game is. Then being like, so I'm just actually curious if you'd want to come on my, on the podcast that I started.
No, I don't want to do that. That's fucking weird.
That's a weird pretense. And don't fucking do that fucking do that with people just don't do that with anybody period do not like flirt with them textually in the hopes that you can book them on your podcast get the fuck out that's I can fucking pathetic it's so weird sometimes I'm like I can't even make I don't even know like I guess I should just go into every situation now just assuming it's like totally platonic and friends and like don't ever assume anything from anyone but the fact is that some of us are 34 and actually trying to find a situation and i would say like i recommend that mindset matt but like also i've been doing that for a while now and i can't say that it's like yielded any great results I mean like I'm I'm polite I give people their boundaries it is good to assume platonic pretense but I am also like oh but like I wonder if I've missed out on things but that's also like it's impossible like you're damned if you do you're damned if you don't yeah yeah it's just it's it's it back to my point.
Um, some, some really wonderful straight guys are out there and we celebrate you. We celebrate John wing.
Go check out DD in theaters, July 26th. Um, fantastic.
Joan Chen. I, I will not shut the fuck up about Joan Chen.
That is one of a talent, a talent. Oh my God.
And she is the funniest motherfucker on set on any set she's on. I have a good authority.
We love when people earn that moniker. Funniest on set.
Funniest on set. That's you, bitch.
No, bitch. On the wedding banquet, it was Joan motherfucking Chen.
Love her. Love her.
Love her. I love her.
Hurrah. Hur her.
Speaking of funniest on set, I mean, congratulations to everyone involved with Oh Mary, finally on Broadway. I saw it on Friday.
I mean, just a perfect show. A perfect show.
And I'm so happy for everyone involved. Cole, James Scully, Conrad Riccim Hannah Solo, Peter Smith, Peter Smith, Sam Pinkleton, Sam Pinkleton, everybody, everybody in the cast and crew.
We love them. Wonderful, wonderful.
And go check it out. That's some great news, right? To feel so excited for them.
Like, yeah, I mean, that's amazing. That's amazing that's one shining light um in the void and um i think we should i really love hearing you talk about books i think you should start reading more well reading more is so i'm drinking a lot less a lot less i'm reading more i'm trying to take care of my skin honestly la has LA's been kind of nice over the past few days.
I'm like, because like, while I feel like less impetus to go out and do things here, just because whatever reason, it also keeps me fucking healthy and in my own lane. No problem.
Because New York has been kind of chaotic recently. Sure.
You know what i've been doing ever since i got back like in a manic way almost is doing all my laundry and folding all my bed linens and it's actually really satisfying and i can fucking fold any fitted sheet now like it's my job and I would be happy to do it for anyone. Yeah.
Can I tell you what I'm feeling? I'm feeling like readers. I'm sorry.
Like I feel, I feel like, I feel like about what? I don't want to be so negative about the state of the world and Katy Perry, but they leave me no choice. It's your truth.
Also, you just got the news that fucking your bag is still not at your house, which you were promised it would be days ago. But I didn't realize that this was your first time losing checked luggage.
I've had it happen to me several times. And I kept having to reassure Matt in a way that I didn't mind.
I was like, no, no. Anytime I've lost my luggage, it's gotten back to me.
They will send it back to you. They can't even do that, which is a basic fucking part of the contract.
But I'm really sorry and you don't have to apologize for being a little bit ornery. So whatever.
I'm also fresh. I'm fresh out of therapy and I actually did cry today i'm sorry whatever hey here's something what a journey i'm on um talking to another friend about uh emdr and i'm like i gotta just do it i really gotta just do it i straight up have you tried no no no but i'm gonna bring it up um i did bring up to my therapist who specializes in ketamine therapy i was like do you think i'm a good candidate good candidate? And he was like, no, like what you are going through is like pretty normal at this point.
Like you've come a long way since last year when I had like a bad moment. And he was just like, that's not your thing.
And, but I did, I did have to like inspired by Orna. I was just like, just tell me what's going on.
I need you to tell me what's going on with me. And he was like, okay, here's what I'm thinking and whatever.
But EMDR, I think I'm going to look into it. Give it a shot because honestly, I had a breakthrough every single time.
I didn't do it today. I just did regular talk therapy today because there was a lot to talk about and a lot going on not just in the macro but in the micro.
Yeah, it was good. Therapy is therapy is 40 minutes away from me so i drove the 40 minutes there 40 minutes back here now i have to do the hour to lax the hour back and i guess the good news is i will be streaming joyride by kesha the entire time because what i am happy about is the fact that it's absolutely smoking woman's world on the charts so victory for kesha by the way kesha you were amazing at we hope pride she's a great ted talk up too oh i saw that i read that the alchemy of pop the alchemy of pop it's great she compares it to scuba diving because she likes to scuba dive yeah that was a good time i'm happy you watched it yeah i watched it too yeah stream joyride stream charm by claro fantastic new album there's another song i really like too which i wanted to tell you about which is it remy wolf no it's not but i did see that you were posting that and i will i will get into that it's actually it's arilana coded it's called summer song by remy bond oh check it out Thanks for the rec.
I put it on my big, beautiful blonde summer playlist. It's the last track.
Anyways. We're still in it.
Well, I love you, sister. Have fun going to LAX.
Stay safe, girl. Love you, Queen.
I can't believe I have to go do that. I'm sorry, but it's almost over.
Our long national nightmare is almost over. Should this episode be called long national nightmare? I don't know about that.
Long international nightmare. I claimed an earlier title of ep, which was that.
This is the reason. This is the reason.
This is the reason. Okay.
This is the reason. We got to give that woman her flowers because that was, that was an iconic delivery.
Should it be? This is the reason, parentheses, long international nightmare? Like it's a song? Yeah. This is the reason, parentheses, long international nightmare.
All right. Well, we end every episode with a song.
It's a woman! Just kidding. Just kidding.
No song this week. Bye.
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