"Fairy Drag Queen Guinea Pig" (w/ Chappell Roan)

Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.

Speaker 2 The best dates happen when someone really gets your vibe, your niche references, your hot takes, even your reality TV obsessions. That's why it's so exciting to be partnering with Bumble.

Speaker 1 Dating feels easier on Bumble with prompts that show off your personality, shared interests that help you find common ground, and verification that gives you peace of mind that you're meeting someone real.

Speaker 2 So if you're ready to meet someone who really gets you and your energy, Bumble is the perfect place to start.

Speaker 1 What are you waiting for? Download Bumble and start your love story. Get ready for your next TV obsession, All's Fair.

Speaker 1 Starring Kim Kardashian, Naomi Watts, Nisi Nash Betts, Tiana Taylor, with Sarah Paulson, and Glenn Close. A team of fierce female divorce attorneys leave a male-dominated firm to start their own.

Speaker 1 Filled with scandalous secrets and shifting allegiances, both in the courtroom and within their own ranks, these ladies know that lawyers are a girl's best friend.

Speaker 1 Don't miss All's Fair, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.
Okay, I'm gonna cut to the chase. Virgin Voyages Caribbean cruises are spectacular.

Speaker 1 I'm a little confused why you're not on one right now.

Speaker 2 We're talking about kid-free cruises to Grand Cayman, Jamaica, and Virgin's private beach club in Bimini.

Speaker 1 Incredible food, DJs, live music, happenings always

Speaker 1 happening.

Speaker 2 And your cabin, basically a sanctuary.

Speaker 1 Plus over $1,000 in value, included Wi-Fi, soda, 20 plus restaurants, and zero hidden fees. I mean, hello?

Speaker 2 Learn more at VirginVoyages.com or contact your travel advisor.

Speaker 3 This message is brought to you by AppleCard. AppleCard members can earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases, wherever they shop.

Speaker 3 This means you could be earning daily cash on just about anything, like a slice of pizza from your local pizza place or a latte from the corner coffee shop.

Speaker 3 Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app to see your credit limit offer in minutes. Subject to credit approval, AppleCard issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch.

Speaker 3 Terms and more at AppleCard.com.

Speaker 1 Look, man.

Speaker 1 Is that culture? Yes. Goodness.

Speaker 1 Lost culturalistas.

Speaker 1 Ding-dong. Ding-dong.
Lost culturalistas calling. Wow, was that the first time we were ever out of sync?

Speaker 2 Bodes well.

Speaker 1 Honestly.

Speaker 2 Bodes very well.

Speaker 1 You know what I was distracted thinking about? Uh-huh. I'm surrounded by tops.

Speaker 2 We've got service tops, camera tops, publicist tops.

Speaker 1 You. No.

Speaker 1 Can I reveal something about Bowen Bowen Yang?

Speaker 1 This is the big thing that I've wanted to reveal on this podcast. The other day in a personal text exchange.
So that's how you know it's real because we never lie to each other.

Speaker 1 It's only ever transparent, real, honest, and more. Bowen goes, I think I legitimately might be bi.

Speaker 2 Which is not the same thing as being a top.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but the girls you're talking about wanting to have sex with.

Speaker 2 You are conflating, like

Speaker 2 having a dick.

Speaker 1 Okay, don't do sexual politics with me right now. All I'm saying is Bowen has a crush on.
Go ahead and come out. Say it.
Lucy Degas. But I've always had this.
You love like a powerful

Speaker 1 singer-songwriter.

Speaker 2 Lucy and I exchanged a powerful glance at Forest Hills. This was like three years ago.
Oh my God. She was, she was opening.
She and Maxi Hatchie were opening for Connor Oberst.

Speaker 2 And she had just got, she had just done her set. This is right when home video came out, her album.

Speaker 2 And then I just like glanced over at her and then she glanced over at me and we kind of smiled at each other. And then that was it.

Speaker 2 And ever since then, and then obviously since then, we've like talked and hung out, but like there's something powerful about her.

Speaker 1 She's since then, we've talked and hung out. Like, it's like, did you did you watch ever watch Nobody Wants This, that thing on Netflix?

Speaker 1 Uh, yes, when they kiss, and that song's like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. It's like that synthy romantic pop song, yeah, that played when you looked at Lucy Dacas across the room.

Speaker 1 And don't think we ever forgot about your thing with Katie Gavin. Oh, yeah,

Speaker 1 that's a good love triangle.

Speaker 2 This is my trend alert.

Speaker 1 Here we go.

Speaker 2 It's always with a gay woman.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 2 And maybe there's a safety in that. It's like, well, there's no stakes in this.
So I can safely from afar pine.

Speaker 1 So I can't wait to see how this episode turns out. Anyway.
Because

Speaker 1 this actually is a huge moment in history because I can't believe this is true. But I think I actually have two things on record on this podcast.

Speaker 1 One was there's an episode where I literally go to you.

Speaker 1 Have you listened to Driver's License by Olivia Rodrigo?

Speaker 1 And you go, what is that? This is when it first came out. And that's on record.
And I believe me bringing up Chapel to you is on record on this podcast.

Speaker 2 That is also on record on this podcast as well. It's on the, it's on record for a lot of people who listened to you and they were like, I'm going to check this girl out.

Speaker 1 It was late 2022 when I first sort of heard her live. But then, no, but then it was,

Speaker 1 no, it was April 2023, I think you were at the Fonda. And I remember it was a special evening because you could feel the energy.
And I remember she sang Pink Pony Club.

Speaker 1 And then she was saying, the Pink Pony Club is here. And I was like, oh, wow, it really feels like it is here.
Like the LA show, it's about LA, et cetera. That was a really special night.

Speaker 1 And I left that being like, she's, she's one of, she's the one. She's one of the ones.
And now she's here.

Speaker 2 She's a Pisces legend. She's a Grammy winner.
Everyone, welcome.

Speaker 1 Hey. Hey, thank you.
You won album of the year at our culture awards before your album was even out. And I've always wanted to ask you how you felt about that.

Speaker 1 I was laughing really, really hard.

Speaker 1 I was like, that is,

Speaker 1 that makes sense it was like that is so funny i'm dumb it was it's so silly it was earned i remember the song that changed everything for me i was like wait what the fuck was casual do a lot of people say that i didn't expect that i like literally casual was the biggest bitch to get done really

Speaker 1 it was like a lot of tense moments because i was like i think it should be huge i think it should be a really big pop song and my co-worker co-writer was like i don't think it i think it's supposed to be sad yeah and so i was like wrong and that's happened so many times about my songs so like it was it's like even the subway you know like i'm just i was like nobody's gonna give a fuck about this like i don't know people are clamoring

Speaker 1 so like casual to me i was like i'm just gonna put it out and just not even care because i am like synth pop girl. This is not super synth pop heavy.
Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 But people liked liked it, and now I love it. I always like things more when I like it.
So you don't think it's both like

Speaker 2 a moody song that also builds to like this grandiosity?

Speaker 1 Because that's what I love about it. I think I get nervous writing songs that aren't like beat heavy and like dance forward.

Speaker 1 Instead of it's kind of like a

Speaker 1 wallowing in misery type of vibe. So I hear that.

Speaker 1 I mean, when I left your show, when I first saw you, I I was like, I feel like the only way to get it across is like, it feels like, and this is lame to do this, but it feels like Kesha meets like Annie Lennox.

Speaker 1 You have this like fun, you came out in this like shit blonde wig, and then you came back out with your, with your hair, and you were like, it's me, Chapel, Chapel Roan.

Speaker 1 And we were all like laughing because there's like aware, an awareness, and there is like, this is before you were calling what you do drag, but there was such a huge drag element.

Speaker 1 You had a drag performer open up. Yeah.
And, but yet you have this like haunting, gorgeous, like ethereal voice that I was like, I don't think we have this out there.

Speaker 1 So that's what I meant by like the Kesha meets Annie. That's so sweet.
I mean, those are icon girls. Yeah.
But that's fun casual on a song like that. It's fun.

Speaker 1 It's funny to hear you say you're like more comfortable doing the beat-heavy stuff because what really like took me, and maybe this is just the place I was in, but was coffee, was kaleidoscope, was like those moments that are so like important and deep in your show.

Speaker 1 Thank you. It is like so different live.
You can really, really feel the

Speaker 1 ballads. Cause I'm actually better at performing ballads like than I am

Speaker 1 pop songs. Just because like I have a ballad voice way more suited for it than I'm.

Speaker 1 But so that's why I feel like the ballads go so heavy live because I thought I'm better. Well,

Speaker 1 well, it's like, it's, it is just like, it's almost like a different singer. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Because I guess it's like when you're needing to do the pop thing do you find yourself being like okay now i'm a different pop girl yeah yeah you have to like i can't sing kaleidoscope and then go you know what they say never waste a friday night on a you know it's really

Speaker 1 it is a different you have to like lock into different characters i feel like um for each song especially like my kinkus karma is like i'm less worried about hitting the notes rather than just like screaming as hard as I can, you know, right?

Speaker 1 That was an important song for me at the time. I was like, oh, wow, this is...
It's an important song for me every day. I feel like.
I'm like, I actually still feel pissed.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't know if I'll ever get over it. I don't know if I'll, if I'll ever not be mad.

Speaker 2 Is it, is it kind of the song's fault, though, that you're locked into this like sentiment?

Speaker 1 Yeah, and that's what's so hard about writing about exes is because you're locked. And especially

Speaker 1 if you hate them.

Speaker 1 And like, I don't, luckily, like, I don't hate a lot of my exes. I have so many songs about my exes, about different people, about people I never dated, but still in love with.

Speaker 1 And I don't hate them, but it's really hard to sing songs about people that you hate because you still hate them.

Speaker 2 Everybody gets two in life.

Speaker 1 How many do you have? How many exes? That you hate.

Speaker 2 That you fucking hate.

Speaker 1 People I fucking hate?

Speaker 2 Exes that you fucking hate.

Speaker 1 I think everyone gets it.

Speaker 2 Is it more than two?

Speaker 1 Just, just, just, just, just greater than or less than two. I feel like high school people just don't count.

Speaker 1 Well, you know what? Your feelings were real, but it doesn't count. My feelings were real, but it doesn't count.
So one.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 That's healthy. That's normal.
Only one. But I've dated like a lot of dumb people, but you know, that's not their fault.
It's not their fault. You almost feel bad.
It's almost like punching down.

Speaker 1 And then all of a sudden they get the distinction of like having a song. And that's also hard.
It's like, well, fuck. You elicited such a response from me that I felt moved to write this thing.

Speaker 1 It's like, it just, I get angry every time I

Speaker 1 sing it. It's real.
It's like, it's very real. And that's why it feels real about the ballots is because like I am feeling that whenever I sing coffee.

Speaker 1 There's been so many times that I perform coffee and I'm just like in the middle of the song. I was like, yeah, I'm done.
Next song. Like, because I'm like, it's just.
How do you actually ended it?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I've just been like, I can't.
Yeah. I don't want to do this.
Ah, that's so like form breaking and cool. It's just like, it's just not worth the rest of the show, you know?

Speaker 1 Cause like, then you, because you always do ballads like in the middle. For me, I do.
Right.

Speaker 1 So then it's like a loop loop loop and on like a high note.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and sometimes I'm just like dreading it so much when like the ballad part the people like the picture you vibe because like I have my wig on the mic stand and I drag my wig around and I make it like campy, but I hated picture you too because I was like, this is boring.

Speaker 1 I'm bored. Like I want to move around on stage without lights.
I want like the pageantry. Yeah.
It's either like I do

Speaker 1 a fully ballad set or I do all pop because, and that's why I like festivals because there's not enough time to do

Speaker 2 what about when you're doing a cover, like you're doing bad romance. Yes.
What is what is, are you just channeling gaga? Are you feeling, are you like finding a way in for yourself?

Speaker 1 Bad romance, low-key, I always felt like a fraud singing. Really? Yes.
Because I was like,

Speaker 1 oh my God, I can't live up to what I think I should be in my fucking head for this song. Like I like,

Speaker 1 and that's like the hardest part of like covering songs that are so iconic. It's like people

Speaker 1 associate bad romance with like pure, it was the biggest fucking pop song ever. Like, and I think I just,

Speaker 1 I do covers because I want to feel like what's in my body. Like, what, what? Will it feel like in my body to sing bad romance in front of a crowd?

Speaker 1 And like, that is the closest I'll ever know to what gaga maybe feels like like i'm like okay this is how it feels to like rage on stage to bad romance or like this is what it feels like to sing barracuda in front of like 50 000 people and so i can like leech off of the other artists experiences in that way you know

Speaker 1 so

Speaker 1 but bad romance is different because I was just like,

Speaker 1 she

Speaker 1 everything. She's everything.

Speaker 1 I can't match it. That's what I realized.
It's like, I can't match it.

Speaker 2 But does, does the feeling of I kind of can channel what it feels like to be Gaga singing the song, does that compete with the fraudulent feeling? Or is that the same thing?

Speaker 2 It's like even Gaga's putting on a persona when she sings that song.

Speaker 1 I just think that

Speaker 1 I can't cover every song I want to. I think it's like reserved.
Yeah. Like, you know, I think, and that's the coolest thing about pop.
It's like you can't fucking

Speaker 1 ballads like are more attainable, but pop

Speaker 1 yeah, some ballads. You know what's funny is it's like with good luck, babe, it's so hard to sing.

Speaker 1 And like, you do see a lot of people taking cracks at it, but you have one of those songs now where it's like that's a chapel roan song. Do you feel like that? Bitch, I can't even sing it.
It's hard.

Speaker 1 I can't sing. I cannot sing it in the original key.
Like, that's fine. In a set of songs.
If I was just doing it only,

Speaker 1 maybe.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But like, I don't even, when people sing my songs, I'm just like, I feel bad because like that,

Speaker 1 I know how hard, like, it. I have some passion for you.
And I was just like, good luck. I don't even care if you fucking mess up because like, thank you for trying.
Because I can't even nail it. Like,

Speaker 1 and also, like,

Speaker 1 I can't sing fucking in pitch. Like,

Speaker 1 like, I am maybe 70% of the time, but the songs are just that fucking hard. Yeah.
And like, it is cool that sometimes, you know, I mean, it feels good. It feels good.

Speaker 1 It feels good to be like,

Speaker 1 yeah, that's my song. Yeah.
And I, you, so is it like when you're, when you're recording, is it,

Speaker 1 I guess, how do I ask this question?

Speaker 2 From a place of technique? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Are you, do you have the song out and you're like writing it straight through with like Dan or Justin, whoever you're writing with?

Speaker 1 And then you can like play it on the piano altogether? Or are you going back and like revisiting different sections of the song? Because that one really feels like it's so many different things.

Speaker 1 That was

Speaker 1 well, it was originally called Good Luck Jane. Right.
And like

Speaker 1 it, we rewrote it. It was such a, it was so annoying.
The best songs take

Speaker 1 the longest, except Pink Pony Club. That took one day, two days.
And like Good Luck Babe, we recorded the entire song four times because we, I could not just like find a key that made sense. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so I feel like for Naked in Manhattan, it took two years to write the post chorus, which is like, touch me, touch me, touch me, touch me.

Speaker 1 So we like come out usually with the chorus or like the song title. And then we'll like create melodies around that.
And then we'll refine from there of like the lyrics.

Speaker 1 And it's always the first edit. We hardly ever,

Speaker 1 ever. The only song that I used the first draft off was Kaleidoscope.
Wow. That's so beautiful, though.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 But like everything else is edit after editor, and like, you know,

Speaker 1 some days it feels like shit. Yeah.
It has to.

Speaker 1 Phenomenon felt like shit to write. Really? Yes.
And that's crazy too, because it's such a fun song, but it's like you're like banging your head against the wall being like, fuck.

Speaker 1 Because it was like, this is, that puzzle was hard.

Speaker 1 It doesn't make sense. Like,

Speaker 1 I was.

Speaker 1 banging my head against I've been banging my head against the wall with the subway because

Speaker 1 I'm it just songs can work live certain things can work live and they do not work in the studio right or like for like my kink is karma like every performance I scream really loud at the end of the song I don't do that in the recorded version doesn't fucking work same with the giver it did not work like first of all I said the wrong thing on SNO I was supposed to say something else like I got nervous and said some like fucked up the wording it kind of like makes sense 80%

Speaker 2 but what was the wording like you know like the country boys can't treat a woman right. Only women know.

Speaker 1 It was like only

Speaker 2 a woman knows how to treat a woman right or something.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was, it just didn't, it was like almost made sense. But also, I was like, SNL, I, it was so insane.
Yeah. Like, it was just so scary.

Speaker 1 Your whole career, your whole career, everyone says nothing is harder than SNL. Nothing is harder than SNL.

Speaker 1 It's like, but also like that it is so live and there is no,

Speaker 1 like your band is live. That's like the scariest part.
It's like the movie magic, like, girl, it's rare that you see anyone fucking playing like anything for real on TV.

Speaker 1 Like, it is not most of the time for real. Yeah.
Um, because it just doesn't work like that. It works live, but not like on TV, televised.
It just, the sound doesn't work that way. Right.

Speaker 1 So, like, I was just, I was so fucking stressed. So I'm like, the fact that I even performed the giver and like made it through.
No, it's amazing.

Speaker 1 But I know that like, it is so awesome to see like everyone be like, where the fuck is the bridge?

Speaker 1 And I'm like, boo, boo, boo, boo, boop, boop, boop. Do you not think I tried? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Do you not think I, do you not think I tried over and over and tried different sayings and tried different, what the bridge was the hardest thing to figure out.

Speaker 1 And like.

Speaker 1 Now I have like an even better idea for it live. Like that's the other thing is like the live shows matter just as much as the songs themselves to me.
Yeah. Because that is actually like

Speaker 2 that's alive. You get to you get to mold it and grow with it and it gets to change.

Speaker 1 And it like,

Speaker 1 it just becomes a character in itself, just like the live performance. Like everyone can kind of like wait for that character of the song to come out.

Speaker 2 Because what you're talking about in terms of recording and in terms of like cracking the subway, let's say, is not to use this phrase again, but you have to, that's, that's locked in.

Speaker 2 You are locked into this thing. And that's it.
That's like the thing that people are going to revisit the most readily and accessibly.

Speaker 2 For what it's worth, I feel like both Pink Pony Glove and the Giver on SNL were fucking major.

Speaker 1 I was listening to the SoundCloud the next day for like weeks. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like that's, and I'm like, and then the track release, I'm like, fuck, this is so hard for me sometimes when like an artist puts out a live thing before the release and then the track comes out and I'm like, I like the live version better.

Speaker 1 Do you know why? Why? I don't. It's called demoitis.
Demoitis? demoitis demoitis okay demo you might fall in love with demo did the demos so like what happens

Speaker 1 school us doctor chop and this is like this is to my detriment too this is to every person's detriment of like i get a demo i hear it i play it for my friend and then i go back in and like work on it play it to them again and they're like oh i just liked the other one better

Speaker 1 and because you have demoitis because you've like attached so much to this,

Speaker 1 like,

Speaker 1 to you attach memories, like you attach all of these things to this one version of the song,

Speaker 1 it's actually not as

Speaker 1 good, like, as the actual recorded version, like straight up, because the song wasn't done. There was like pitchiness all over the map.
And like,

Speaker 1 sometimes that's mantered, but it's not what I want in my life. Yeah.
Tracks, but, or sorry, my recorded tracks, but

Speaker 1 you fall in love with what you hear first. Yeah, of course.

Speaker 1 Because you hear a different version and you're just going to hate it because it's different. Yeah.
That's the thing. I just go into new things.
I'm like expecting to hate it.

Speaker 1 It's like, okay, Kaylee, like you are going to hate this. Get past it and like look at it for what it really is.

Speaker 1 And that is how I get past to releasing. how I even release music.
Yeah. Because it's like, I'm going to hate it.
Just live with it.

Speaker 1 like feel it and take a step away yeah because like all the people who have been living with the the giver on soundcloud or whatever of course they're gonna hate it that is like they're attached they're attached and like just because it's different you'll hate it because that's like human nature of course you know so i was not surprised at all when people were like this is a sad this is losing the magic and it's like i think it has the magic i think the and that's really all that matters and also like people will just get over it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they will. Because it's like, it just sounds better.
And like, for the subway, you know, it's just going to feel different. And different doesn't always mean bad.

Speaker 1 You just have to like really take yourself out of it and be like.

Speaker 1 This is different and it's okay. And now you have two versions.
And now you have two versions. Because the SoundCloud version remains.
Yeah. And that's the one you love.

Speaker 1 And there'll be a third version when you come out and, you know, do it. And you want to perform it at all these festivals coming up.
Yeah. So it's like, it's demoitis.
Just remind yourself it's like,

Speaker 1 like I, I, there's so many TikTok songs that I've like, oh my God, this is so fun. And I didn't realize it was either a cover sped up or like something.
And then I hear the original version.

Speaker 1 I'm like, oh, speed it up. I like, yeah.
And I'm like, oh, I like the TikTok one. And then I like go back and I'm like.

Speaker 1 Actually, the artist put that out on purpose because it actually fits the art better. Of course.
So I understand people were like, where is the bridge? Of course.

Speaker 1 It was probably a man who decided that. Oh, God.
No, baby.

Speaker 1 I did decide that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And also, do not forget, this is a lesbian country song. Like, this is like a big deal.
Yes. Like, this is, for me, what I've always wanted to do.

Speaker 1 So it may not be what you want. Of course.
Right, right, right, right, right.

Speaker 2 There's this like interesting entitle. I'm not going to say this, but it's like, you're not customer service.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 you are not there to like take in all of these complaints and like synthesize them into like they can't affect your work i had to stop reading you got to stop reading it's probably just i had to stop no i deleted um instagram and tick tock off my phone yeah on sunday because i was like i actually like if i want to protect my creative psyche like because i'm writing right now yeah nothing I have to build a force field around it.

Speaker 1 And the things, if I want to for sure have a bad day, like 100% guarantee, I read the comments. Like, and I just have to remind myself, you know, the stove is hot.
Let's go touch it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's like, okay, if you want to open these, you're not going to feel good. Yeah.
So now it's just like, never, it's never going to be worth it. It's never worth it.

Speaker 1 And like, it just hurts my feelings. I thought I would grow out of it hurting my feelings.
Build a thicker skin or something. Yeah, I thought I would become callous to it.

Speaker 1 And sometimes I hate that I'm not callous. And then other times I'm like, actually, thank God I have feelings about people hurting my feelings.
Absolutely. Because that is like sad.

Speaker 1 If I don't know, maybe I'll get there one day. Maybe I can find a healthy medium.
But I don't know. People like saying, it's not about like my art anymore all of a sudden.

Speaker 1 It's about me and how I look or how

Speaker 1 I talk or my humor. It's like that is the insufferable part all of a sudden and not like the art.
And so that's what hurts my feelings. It's like when my art, even

Speaker 1 you know, like with the giver, you are 100% allowed to judge it, hate it, love it, rip it apart, critique it. Like that is the point.
Fair game. That is fair game.
It's art.

Speaker 1 I think like everything else, I'm like, that's outside of my art and performance. Same with performance.
Critique it. Like that is visual art.

Speaker 1 Visually, like, critique my fashion. That's fine.
It's just when it comes to

Speaker 1 my personality and like my mistakes that I make in public, it's like

Speaker 1 it is ruthless.

Speaker 1 They're not mistakes. Don't do it.
They're not mistaken. But the thing is, even if they are or aren't mistakes, human beings are allowed to make them.
Of course.

Speaker 1 And I think that like one thing that people just, whether they can't reckon with it or they don't want to, because like people feel complicit in it is it's like, it was like unprecedented how quickly it changed for you from here to here in terms of like the amount of eyes on you and the amount of mouths flapping in regards to what you did.

Speaker 1 So it's like, even in a world where it's like, we've seen people go from like, whatever it is, like zero to six to your overnight success, whatever that means, not like this.

Speaker 1 Cause I remember we were at Coachella and we were like,

Speaker 1 we were so excited at Coachella because we were like, oh, and I was with a couple of gays who didn't know who you were yet. And that was, you know, April of 2024.
Yeah. It was a year.

Speaker 1 Meanwhile, at the end of that weekend, not only did everyone know who you were, but everyone had an opinion on you, etc.

Speaker 1 And then GovBall was a whole other fucking thing that was 15, 20 different like think pieces.

Speaker 1 And it's like that you're never going to get, you are never going to get what you want out of that one individual human being. It's impossible.
And I don't think there's enough awareness of that.

Speaker 1 Or, like, you know, people don't take accountability for their own actions in that regard.

Speaker 2 Because people get excited.

Speaker 1 Do you feel that? Do you guys feel that?

Speaker 2 I mean, we're not feeling it on your level.

Speaker 1 No, but every level

Speaker 1 is a level.

Speaker 1 Every level is a a level. It's full of culture.
Rule of culture number 76.

Speaker 1 Every level is a level.

Speaker 1 But of course, and it's also, it's like when you have something, when you have like something that you've put out there that people have really connected with and people have a relationship with you in that regard, it gets harder, which is why I'm happy you just deleted the ship because you're in creative mode right now and you need to be.

Speaker 1 If you're still overpaying for wireless, it's time to say yes to saying no. And Mint Mobile, their favorite word is no.
No contracts, no monthly bills, no overages, no hidden fees, no BS.

Speaker 1 Here's why I said yes to making the switch and getting premium wireless for $15 a month.

Speaker 2 Ditch overpriced wireless and their jaw-dropping monthly bills, unexpected overages, and hidden fees. Plans start at $15 a month at Mint.

Speaker 1 All plans come with high-speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network.

Speaker 2 Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts.

Speaker 1 You could just save a ton with Mint Mobile, and I feel like that's what we're all trying to do right now, right?

Speaker 1 Cut those corners and make sure that we can use our money to spend on things that we need and things that we want to do I mean isn't wireless like water everyone should have it with mint mobile you're a little bit closer because it's a little bit cheaper ready to say yes to saying no make the switch at mintmobile.com slash cultureistas that's mintmobile.com slash culture is upfront payment from 45 dollars required equivalent to fifty dollars a month limited time new customer offer for first three months only speeds may slow above thirty five gigabytes on unlimited plan taxes and fees extra see mint mobile for details as the air turns crisp and the holidays draw near comfort becomes the best gift of all.

Speaker 2 And Quince delivers layers that last: sweaters, outerwear, and everyday essentials that feel luxurious, look timeless, and make holiday dressing and gifting effortless.

Speaker 1 Quince has it all. $50 Mongolian cashmere sweaters made for everyday wear, denim that never goes out of style,

Speaker 1 tops and skirts that add polish, and down and outerwear built to take on the season. Perfect for gifting or upgrading your own wardrobe.

Speaker 2 Honestly, Quince Italian wool coats are at the top of my list. I mean, the cuts feel designer and the quality rivals high-end brands.

Speaker 1 But without the high-end markup, by working directly with ethical top-tier factories, Quince skips the middlemen and offers prices 50% less than similar brands.

Speaker 2 I've gotten amazing linen bedding from Quinn's. I just bought fun, gorgeous, sumptuous silk pajamas from Quince.
My first actual pajama set that I'm sleeping in in my life. Thank you, Quince.

Speaker 1 You are the most sumptuous person I know. Thank you.
I just love that, like someone like you, one of my loved ones, I can go to Quince and be taken care of when it comes to gifts this holiday season.

Speaker 1 So give and get timeless holiday staples that last this season with Quince. Go to quince.com/slash cultureistas for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.
Now available in Canada, too.

Speaker 1 That's q-u-in-ce-e.com/slash culture is free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com/slash culture is

Speaker 2 you're one of my loved ones, too. Ah.

Speaker 2 You know, making progress in my finances has been kind of a headache. My credit score keeps going up and down.

Speaker 1 And I don't know how to wrangle her. Oh, babe.
I recently, yep, overdrafted. And Chime understands that every dollar counts and has your back.

Speaker 1 That's why when you set up direct deposit through QIIME, you get access to fee-free features like free overdraft coverage, getting paid up to two days early with direct deposit and more.

Speaker 2 Learn more at chime.com/slash culturistas. Chime is banking done right.
Open a checking account with no monthly fees and no maintenance fees.

Speaker 1 Get paid up to two days early when you set up direct deposit. With qualifying direct deposits, you're eligible for free overdraft up to $200 on debit card purchases and cash withdrawals.

Speaker 2 To date, Chime has spotted members over $30 billion.

Speaker 2 Open a checking account with no monthly fees and no maintenance fees.

Speaker 1 Not to mention access to over 47,000 fee-free ATMs, more than the top three national banks combined.

Speaker 2 Work on your financial goals through Chime today. Open an account in two minutes at chime.com slash cultureistas.

Speaker 1 That's chime.com/slash cultureistas.

Speaker 4 Chime feels like progress. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank.
Banking services and debit card provided by the Bankwork Bank NA or Stripe Bank NA, members FDIC.

Speaker 4 Spot me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file.
Fees apply at out of network ATMs, bank ranking, and number of ATMs according to U.S.

Speaker 4 News and World Report 2023. Chime checking account required.

Speaker 1 What if your Wi-Fi wasn't just Wi-Fi, but the magic holding your whole holiday together?

Speaker 2 Well, with Xfinity Wi-Fi, it kind of is.

Speaker 1 Picture this.

Speaker 1 Powered by their best, most elite, high-performing tech, this Wi-Fi doesn't just connect devices, it keeps the peace at home during the most wonderful and most stressful time of the year.

Speaker 2 It's kind of like having a little holiday helper working behind the scenes, making sure the holiday playlist never skips the beat and the video call with grandma doesn't freeze mid-cookie tutorial.

Speaker 1 It's Wi-Fi that keeps your whole home connected so you can actually enjoy the holiday magic. Chaos-free.
The best present of all.

Speaker 2 Let me paint a picture for you. A holiday movie marathon is streaming in the living room.

Speaker 2 Your kid is video chatting their friends from their tablet, and your partner is shopping for too many gifts and cinnamon candles. Ah!

Speaker 2 Not this season, not with Xfinity Wi-Fi.

Speaker 1 With Xfinity, you can boost the Wi-Fi to your device only. So when you go to upload 200 photos of that cat in a cute little Santa hat, you won't see that dreaded failed to upload message.

Speaker 1 Not this season, not with Xfinity Wi-Fi. And what if you had a way to make sure family time during the holidays had zero distractions?

Speaker 1 With Xfinity Wi-Fi, you can pause the kids' Wi-Fi and enjoy those special moments together.

Speaker 2 And if you're wondering what other parental instincts your Wi-Fi has during this busy season, Xfinity protects your kids when they're online so you know they're safe, even if you're busy making cocoa or taste-testing cookies.

Speaker 2 What?

Speaker 1 Someone has to make sure there's exactly the same amount of chocolate chips in each cookie.

Speaker 1 And what if your Wi-Fi could proactively fix issues before they even happen? Well, that's exactly what Xfinity Wi-Fi does.

Speaker 1 Like the friend who shows up with extra wrapping paper, bows, and tape before you even realize you're out. Because let's be honest, you never buy enough.

Speaker 2 Bottom line, Xfinity Wi-Fi isn't just smart, it's brilliant. And during the holidays, that brilliance, that's a gift.
Xfinity, imagine that

Speaker 1 i wanted to ask you like how is it going in terms of you treating yourself creatively creatively the artist's way i don't know if you've ever heard it before

Speaker 1 that book taught me how to protect my creativity and like how to be really treat myself really well and be really gentle with myself i am really good at respecting my artistry what i am not good at is respecting like my feelings outside of artistry.

Speaker 1 Like it's so interesting. I'm like very good at being gentle with like my critiques on myself and like letting things, you know, it's not going to be great the first time.

Speaker 1 You may have to like water it and watch it grow.

Speaker 1 But when it comes to like me making a mistake in life, it's like, that's when I'm not good at like giving myself some grace or just like.

Speaker 1 whatever. So my creativity is very

Speaker 1 sacred. She's sacred and healthy.
Like, I just spent the whole last week doing writing and I wrote some songs I really loved. And like, that's, that is magic.

Speaker 1 The fact that I could do that amidst like the past year and the fact that I can't like do a lot of things like I used to normally and like feel normal. That's great.
That's awesome. It worked.

Speaker 1 Like, it's just when it comes to like my self-confidence or. comments or like, you know, just saying something I didn't mean or whatever, how that's how like when I'm really hard on myself.
Right.

Speaker 2 But well, you know what that book does? Early on, it tells you to like picture and think back on the people early on in your life who like tried to like cut you off creatively.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like I still, I still go about this process with like one specific person. This is the theater teacher.
This is the theater teacher or whatever.

Speaker 1 This is like iconic woman in history.

Speaker 2 You have to like treat them the same way that you chapel treat your exes.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You have to like fucking go for the jugular in your brain with these people. And you, and I think my thing is we have to keep doing it now.

Speaker 2 Now that like there are these little side quests popping up where like, oh, there's this person who like is being a little booger. This person's being a fucking asshole.

Speaker 2 Like it's a continuous thing where you like have to tell these people who make you feel like you're making a mistake, which you're not.

Speaker 2 You can't even think of them as mistakes because these are just people who are trying to like end you creatively and you have to protect that.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And art is like, for me, I'm such,

Speaker 1 I do have a thick skin around like my art. It's really hard to see something you see online and be like, oh, maybe that's supposed to be funny.
Right. But everyone's like, that's serious.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that's actually fucked up. And it's like, huh? Maybe

Speaker 1 it's just not one about you or two serious.

Speaker 1 Well, can we talk about also like when people were dragging you for doing your mudang thing? And then I was like, I was like, I bet she thinks it's funny. I did.
Yeah. I didn't feel anything.

Speaker 2 Sasha and I, Sasha Cole, and I were talking, and I was just like, I mean, yeah, everyone's mad.

Speaker 1 I was like, but I'm not. I was like,

Speaker 1 I was like, is she okay? And Sasha was like, yeah, girl, she's laughing. She's loving.
I was like, okay, well, then

Speaker 1 that's fine. I'm like, then why are you, people don't have to get mad on my behalf.
Right. But I'm for fine.
Yeah. Yes.
So what is there to be mad about? Also,

Speaker 1 this is what happens. Like.
That is SNL. It's comedy.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, it is so lighthearted. It was like, to me, harmless.
Oh, Oh my god. And for people to,

Speaker 1 even if you were to push it further, harmless.

Speaker 1 It's like, it's comedy. I don't understand.
Like, I just don't know the lining.

Speaker 2 I think people just get worked up over someone that they are very,

Speaker 2 it's like a, it's like a love bombing thing or it's like limerence. It's like they're obsessed with you and so they will die.

Speaker 1 It's parasocial. I mean, what it is is it's like, I need to protect this person.
They've expressed that they need help, or I feel like I'm projecting what I might need in that situation.

Speaker 1 But it's hard, like you're saying, like when you look online, is it supposed to be a joke? Is this thing supposed to be funny in a time when we are

Speaker 1 nothing's funny?

Speaker 1 Nothing's funny. When very few.
Life is not funny, right? Exactly.

Speaker 1 And meanwhile, it's like, that was a really complicated, weird time because it was like, like, I remember getting texts from people being like, are Bowen and Chappell okay?

Speaker 1 I was like, first of all, they don't really know each other that well. Second of all, I'm sure they are.
Third of all, why are we assuming that people don't have senses of humor?

Speaker 1 It's like it's Chapel Roan, y'all. It's like I, I was watching your show, and that's why I was describing you as like, there was like this fun pop ketchup.

Speaker 1 You come out in the shit blonde wig, and you're like, it's me, Chapel, like as if we weren't supposed to know. I'm like, this girl is funny.
We're all having fun. It's pop stardom.

Speaker 1 It's, you know, even if, like,

Speaker 1 even, even if you didn't like, think the mooding sketch was funny or anything, you don't have to say anything. Yeah, right.
There's always silence.

Speaker 1 Like, like you don't you can always not say something yeah right and you know what people sticking up for me in that situation or not sticking up for me made me feel no different right exactly i um didn't feel protected and i didn't feel unprotected so because i didn't need it either way sure yeah because it i was not offended

Speaker 2 i wanted to have a serious conversation about this what do you love about service topping okay i didn't know what service topping was but do you identify as one

Speaker 1 because i read I read an article. You read an article.
And to me, is it like stone top?

Speaker 2 It's this is, I had an encounter in the last year, not recently, but someone who was like,

Speaker 2 what do you want me to do to make you feel good? I'm a service top. Oh.
Said these words to me. Like, I get off on watching someone

Speaker 2 take pleasure in what I'm doing.

Speaker 1 A true giver. Sorry.

Speaker 1 Isn't that just sex i'm so yeah honestly that is thank you for saying i'm so sorry service tops sorry go ahead they are in their mind they are servicing you which sometimes i mean i'm sure we've been in situations

Speaker 1 and i wouldn't even i don't even know if they would identify it as kinky but like sometimes it's like i want to have sex because i want to feel good they want to have sex because they want to see you feel good does that make sense but that in turn makes them feel good and so it's you know what i mean okay so you're with you sometimes i think we go crazy with the labels of everything i don't understand okay i mean i that's why i ask if it's kinky because it's like

Speaker 1 this may not

Speaker 1 make me

Speaker 1 like i may not understand this pleasure thing for you but i'm gonna do it anyway because like you like to be dominated or something or like whatever but to me like

Speaker 1 I just thought that's how sex worked.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So what does being a giver mean to you then?

Speaker 1 That just means

Speaker 1 I want to do things that make you feel good. Yeah.
Like

Speaker 1 I will do things.

Speaker 1 I will just give my time.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And if I take that, if I'm a taker, aren't I giving you something in return by taking it?

Speaker 2 I think that's where all three of us are kind of getting a little mixed up. We're lost.

Speaker 1 Maybe I'm lost too.

Speaker 1 I'm a pillow princess.

Speaker 1 I know exactly where I am. Okay, good.

Speaker 1 Just kidding.

Speaker 1 Are you?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 No, I'm not a pillow princess.

Speaker 1 Sometimes I'm a pillow princess. It feels good.
I think maybe I just like, so take it like a taker. I wasn't really like actually thinking about anything.

Speaker 1 I was just like, oh, that's fun. Yeah.
Because a giver and a taker. Take it like a taker.
Like, that's literally where my mind went. But when I saw the article about like service tops and whatever,

Speaker 1 I was just like, cool. Did not know that existed.
Wasn't the intention. Like, I just liked,

Speaker 1 I do love that about pop culture, is that they will make something out of nothing, like, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Like, they made this, people will make like this entire outline of like what each thing means, thing, yeah, like what each character I played means in like the lesbian community.

Speaker 1 And I literally was like, don't know what you're talking about. I just wanted to wear a blazer.
Like, I wanted to wear a plunge.

Speaker 1 You were talking on Apple about like really what it was, was you wanted a George Strait type of song, right? Like, you wanted to feel on stage like that kind of swaggy, country like character. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Which I think is

Speaker 2 different than like I get off on making you oh face.

Speaker 1 I thought that was like the point of sex. It is.
Like for me,

Speaker 1 I give you pleasure, and that gives me pleasure.

Speaker 2 This is the healthiest discourse on sex anyone's ever had.

Speaker 1 But it, you know,

Speaker 1 thank God, Dr. Ruth is dead.

Speaker 1 She's rolling in her grave. One time I asked Dr.
Ruth what she thought of prep

Speaker 1 and she didn't, she couldn't, it did not compute. She was like, what? I was like, it was at the Sund Men's Film Festival.
I was like, it's so gay guys can have unprotected sex.

Speaker 1 She goes, well, I hate that. No.
And then I was like, oh, oh, okay. And then,

Speaker 1 but it was fully Dr. Ruth.
And I'm thinking she knows like what prep is and she did not. And then I was like, okay, maybe we've, we've missed each other in terms of like the sexual revolution.

Speaker 2 The reason I say this is actually a huge reset for people, the way people talk about sex in this day and age is that it has been so divorced from pleasure. Yeah.
I think for a lot of people.

Speaker 1 That's interesting. I mean, that is why, that is my experience when I hooked up with men.
Yeah. Really? That's how I knew I was gay.
Uh-huh. Because

Speaker 1 it never

Speaker 1 felt like it was about you or for you. No, I just felt so performative.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And like, so like, I just did what I thought they wanted, even if it didn't feel good. And maybe that's what,

Speaker 1 to me, when i'm like okay service top is that it's like another you want to do service even if you don't want to like

Speaker 1 i don't know like i i just want to do what my partner makes them feel good and when i make them feel good i that makes me feel good right so i think i would not really know what to do um if someone I was hooking up with was only service stone top.

Speaker 1 I don't think I would really know what to do because I would want to do something something for them. Uh-huh.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Are we saying that the term service top is a little bit, it feels like it's a given thing. It's like saying, well,

Speaker 2 I'm a sensory bottom. It's like, of course you are.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? Yeah, you have something in your ass. You're going to feel about it.
Why I only, I'm the best.

Speaker 2 I'm best when I bottom and I can feel it.

Speaker 1 Well, yeah. What are you talking about?

Speaker 1 You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 That's crazy. It's no, but you know what, though?

Speaker 1 Like, it takes time to like, I think a lot of people say this stuff because they're, it's, it's more a thing of, it's less them expressing what they actually like and more people being like, no, like I do have sexual agency.

Speaker 1 I do have a sexual identity. When the fact is, it takes a lot of time.
Totally.

Speaker 1 Like, I don't even think it wasn't until my late 20s that I was even having real sex that like consciously took me out of what I had seen in like porn or what which I do think.

Speaker 1 And I have so much respect for everyone like in the sex work community, et cetera. But I do think when you're ingesting a lot of it young, you of course want to emulate the things that you see.

Speaker 1 And that is like inherently not going to be natural to you every time. So it's like, it's like, in that way, it becomes a teacher in a way that can be a little rocky.

Speaker 1 It wasn't, and I was just thinking, sitting here, like.

Speaker 1 You know, I had a great sexual experience like last week. And I was like,

Speaker 1 thank you so much. And shout out verse also, flip.
You.

Speaker 2 Yes. Amazing.

Speaker 1 And I've been, I've really started like owning myself as like the bottom that I am, but then all of a sudden, love.

Speaker 1 So, but that's what I guess what I mean is it's like, I need to stop telling myself I'm one thing.

Speaker 1 I think we all need to stop telling ourselves our one thing and be open to those different experiences and expressions because I think a lot of it is just us wanting to belong in something.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that is so real. It's so nice when there's a label that fits you perfectly.
Right. Because that makes you be like, oh, like when i um

Speaker 1 what is the what is the one that is where you only are sexually attracted to people that you're friends with it's like i don't know that it's uh it's like you have to have like a really strong relationship to like feel like you want to hook up with them and it's not even just like intimate it's also friendship does that mean

Speaker 2 what is it i don't know i'm not sure it's um

Speaker 1 it's

Speaker 1 it's ross and rachel

Speaker 1 but when i heard about that i was like oh that makes sense to me. Like, I can't, I don't want to just hook up with people I just met.
Like, that is why I'm so uncomfortable when I'm hit on. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like, because I'm like, I don't know you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 And that is why I get myself in trouble and date my friends. And then, like, you know what I mean? That is always what happens.

Speaker 1 And so, like, that's why I'm so, it's such a turn off when people like are so bold at the beginning. Yeah.
Because I'm like, I don't know you. You got to watch those anyway.

Speaker 1 You're like, if people are really bold at the beginning, my experience experience is, okay, this is for you. Yeah.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Like, we've experienced some love bombing and it's like, I'm sure we all have. And it's like, this, there's no way you're, you're like this.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I've even asked a question.
I've, I've, I've sat back, cocked the brow, and been like,

Speaker 1 how, how,

Speaker 1 how can you be this? Yeah. And then they have another line.

Speaker 1 The one I, the one I got, the one I got was,

Speaker 1 we deserve to have good things. We're good people.
And I was like, where'd you read that?

Speaker 1 Motherfucker. Where'd you read that? Next.
Next. Think of something smarter.

Speaker 1 But people, like,

Speaker 1 period.

Speaker 1 Snapple cap. Snapple cap.

Speaker 1 I'm never surprised anymore when people have rehearsed the whole thing. Like you find out later they had a bit that they were going to do when you sat down at whatever it is they were meeting.

Speaker 1 Like they researched things to say to you up top with your friends, especially someone like you. Well, you're talking about like people that research things about you.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, well, yes but also it's like i'm gonna say i'm gonna say this joke about a celebrity because i know he likes celebrities or whatever that no i was thinking of like people

Speaker 1 that can't you can't just google like

Speaker 1 whatever i guess like for me that's like gone and probably for like for you like get people it's gone harder it's gone like people can like kind of guess what you might like and like like manipulate a sentence that maybe would work best for you because they know you yeah yeah

Speaker 1 like a regular bar, I'm always, you know, before,

Speaker 1 I guess. Before last year.
Before last year, if I like had a pickup line, I'd be like, that's, I, I can only laugh. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like it's hilarious. Cause I'm just like, but they had to try.

Speaker 1 You know what? That's the thing is it's like, they're trying and everyone's trying.

Speaker 1 It's like some people think, and if I go in with an arsenal of things to say and I really like, you know, dress rehearsed what this is going to be, I'll feel better about it.

Speaker 1 But, you know, sometimes it's just like, it is worth being like, okay, when are we going to get to the real you?

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 it could take a long time. If you feel like, you know, do you feel like if people know who you are, it's like

Speaker 1 a turn off or turn on or just be honest.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It depends.
It just depends. It does depend.
But I am very weary if someone knows who,

Speaker 1 if someone is a fan

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 I like have hit hit on them or something and like started like a relationship with them and I did not know they were a fan

Speaker 1 that is scary to me

Speaker 1 because I'm I feel embarrassed and also I'm like I don't trust you and like are you screenshotting everything we're saying

Speaker 1 are you I just get really I've become so paranoid about that stuff like I'm like, girl, I'll just talk like this all the time because those freaking lip readers are like, oh, I know.

Speaker 1 The lip readers, we were talking about that recently. It's like, which, God bless the lip readers.
We need those girls.

Speaker 2 We do. It is fun when you, when you want to know and you're on the other side of it, but like they ain't right all the time.

Speaker 1 No, they're not. I'll tell you that.
At the Grammys, you're like, it's fucking open concept.

Speaker 1 It's crazy. All these people are looking down at you.
It's almost like a design for that. One thing that they really did, this is the recording out of me, had posted like.

Speaker 1 watch Chappell watch Benson Boone or like, watch Sabrina Carpenter watch this person, et cetera. And it's just like, why are we watching these artists watch the thing?

Speaker 1 And then all of a sudden you're like,

Speaker 1 your finger starts going like, should I click? And you're like, I mean, no, it's weird, but why is that available? Because they want so bad to catch you. Catch you.
That's the only reason.

Speaker 1 They just want to fucking catch you.

Speaker 2 So then why wouldn't you be paranoid if like that's on your mind all day?

Speaker 1 That's what I'm thinking about always. I'm just like, yeah.
I have to think about it all the time. I won't win.
It's not that I can or can't win. I won't.
Right. Like no matter what.
Literally.

Speaker 1 I will not win this.

Speaker 2 You're not customer service. That's all.

Speaker 1 But also it's like, I'm not customer service. And it's everyone else's expectation like against my entire humanity.
Like it's so crazy. Yeah.
But it's not their fault.

Speaker 1 It's like, that's how celebrity culture is where

Speaker 1 we find our happiness, our like. depths of hell.
And for the first time, your comment matters.

Speaker 1 For the first time, something you say, people notice. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And that's why the big comments are all mean. Because for the first time,

Speaker 1 your voice matters in a country where you've been told that you never will matter. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So that's why I think the psychologist, just my personal psychology around

Speaker 1 why people hate celebrities online. That's like why the biggest, all you look at the comments, the biggest ones are the meanest.
Right.

Speaker 1 Because finally, finally, finally, finally, something you say is validated. Yeah.

Speaker 1 After all this time, after you feeling so helpless, after everyone turning you down and saying that you don't matter, the mean parts of you do

Speaker 1 online. And so like, I don't blame people.
Of course they're going to hate.

Speaker 2 It's like all that there is left is to is to be mean because it's incentivizing a mean snarky.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 the meaner you are, like the more attention you get. Right.

Speaker 1 But it doesn't get them like, it doesn't get them past the ceiling of like the ceiling comment section right of the comment section that's the other thing it doesn't get you past the comics like it's not like it's giving you a fucking job it's not like it's getting you respect it's not like it's getting you like friends

Speaker 2 it's awful because everybody

Speaker 2 and i'm saying everybody at at the highest levels of like this kind of stardom

Speaker 2 that that is like what they're dealing with it is i'm just telling i'm just telling everybody like from like from what I've seen, which is not too much, but it's like, oh shit, like even in small glimpses, like at SNL, it's like we just, we just, you just cycle through like different case studies in fame, and it's just, that's the common thread.

Speaker 2 And it's really fucked up. Anyway, we should move on.

Speaker 1 What if your Wi-Fi wasn't just Wi-Fi, but the magic holding your whole holiday together?

Speaker 2 Well, with Xfinity Wi-Fi, it kind of is.

Speaker 1 Picture this.

Speaker 1 Powered by their best, most elite, high-performing tech, this Wi-Fi doesn't just connect devices, it keeps the peace at home during the most wonderful and most stressful time of the year.

Speaker 2 It's kind of like having a little holiday helper working behind the scenes, making sure the holiday playlist never skips the beat and the video call with grandma doesn't freeze mid-cookie tutorial.

Speaker 1 It's Wi-Fi that keeps your whole home connected, so you can actually enjoy the holiday magic. Chaos-free.
The best present of all.

Speaker 2 Let me paint a picture for you. A holiday movie marathon is streaming in the living room.

Speaker 2 Your kid is video chatting their friends from their tablet, and your partner is shopping for too many gifts and cinnamon candles. Ah!

Speaker 2 Not this season, not with Xfinity Wi-Fi.

Speaker 1 With Xfiniti, you can boost the Wi-Fi to your device only. So when you go to upload 200 photos of that cat in a cute little Santa hat, you won't see that dreaded failed to upload message.

Speaker 1 Not this season, not with Xfinity Wi-Fi. And what if you had a way to make sure family time during the holidays had zero distractions?

Speaker 1 With Xfinity Wi-Fi, you can pause the kids' Wi-Fi and enjoy those special moments together.

Speaker 2 And if you're wondering what other parental instincts your Wi-Fi has during this busy season, Xfinity protects your kids when they're online so you know they're safe, even if you're busy making cocoa or taste testing cookies.

Speaker 1 What? Someone has to make sure there's exactly the same amount of chocolate chips in each cookie.

Speaker 1 And what if your Wi-Fi could proactively fix issues before they even happen? Well, that's exactly what Xfinity Wi-Fi does.

Speaker 1 Like the friend who shows up with extra wrapping paper, bows, and tape before you even realize you're out. Because let's be honest, you never buy enough.

Speaker 2 Bottom line, Xfinity Wi-Fi isn't just smart, it's brilliant. And during the holidays, that brilliance, that's a gift.
Xfinity, imagine that.

Speaker 2 No one can resist a rule of culture. So here's one for the dating files.
Rule of culture number 72.

Speaker 1 Chemistry isn't just vibes, it's values.

Speaker 1 Because what's the point of matching with someone if you can't talk about the shows you binge, the books you dog ear, or all the hot takes you'll defend at brunch?

Speaker 2 I mean, you definitely have friends who have met their partners on Bumble, and it makes sense. It's not just about matching with someone.

Speaker 2 It's about finding someone someone who gets your references, your obsessions, your whole vibe. With shared interests and prompts, you don't just see a profile.

Speaker 2 You get a glimpse of someone's personality, which makes it even easier to start conversations that actually lead somewhere.

Speaker 1 Plus, with photo and ID verification, you can trust that the person you're talking to is real. With that added peace of mind, it's so much easier to show up as your full self.

Speaker 2 So, whether your rule of culture is the best first state, start with the shared hot take on Renaissance, or compatibility is having the same hometown bodega order, download Bumble and turn those connections into something bigger.

Speaker 1 Download Bumble and start your love story. Who decides what you can do? Who gets to decide what you're capable of? Your boss? Your friends? Some stranger on the internet? No, no, and absolutely no.

Speaker 1 You decide.

Speaker 2 Only you. Ford shares that belief.
It's like engineered into their vehicles. An F-150 is all steel, sweat, and dreams.

Speaker 1 Right? Mm-hmm. A Ford Bronco is built for adventure, but you've got to get behind the wheel.
Can you? Yeah, you can. But you have to first.

Speaker 1 You have have to and a mustang the mustang that conquers curves you are more capable than you know like for example i never thought i could parallel park i just thought it wasn't something that was gonna happen for me in my life and not everyone gets to have every experience you know but then suddenly i did a parallel park and i thought wow i'm gonna apply to harvard i didn't get in but I did parallel park.

Speaker 2 Sometimes you just need to push.

Speaker 1 What is it that they say? Whether you think you can or you think you can't. You're right.

Speaker 2 Ready, set

Speaker 1 Ford. Visit Ford.com to learn more.
You ever just stop in the middle of a crazy day and realize, wow, I needed a break.

Speaker 2 It literally happened to me yesterday. I cracked open a Diet Coke, sat back for five minutes.

Speaker 1 Total reset. Right? There's something about the crispy, refreshing taste of an ice-cold Diet Coke.
It just hits.

Speaker 2 It's my little me moment, like make time for a Diet Coke break, you know?

Speaker 1 Exactly. Diet Coke is the perfect companion for all break moments.
Diet Coke, this is my taste.

Speaker 1 We want to ask you the question that we asked all of our guests, which is, Chapel Rome, what was the culture that made you say culture was for you?

Speaker 1 So basically, this can be a movie, a music artist, environmental, something about growing up, just

Speaker 1 whatever it means to you, the culture that made you you.

Speaker 1 I'm really glad that guinea pigs have their own culture online because I'm a a guinea pig girl wow is this gonna be if you never talked about that yeah no a lot of people don't know that about me the guinea pigs were in we're on snl for the giver oh yeah in the background yes and they are

Speaker 1 yes the guinea pigs were back there talk about guinea pig culture well um I'm just obsessed with them. I had four at time,

Speaker 1 but they passed away.

Speaker 1 They do that. I am obsessed with them.
I think they're the cutest animals on earth. I

Speaker 1 worked at a guinea, I volunteered at a guinea pig rescue for a year.

Speaker 1 I

Speaker 1 love rodents in general.

Speaker 1 And I love the guinea pig community online is awesome. I love that community.
I think the culture and like all seriousness that made me feel like me was drag.

Speaker 1 At first, I was very freaked out by drag. I was like, oh,

Speaker 1 I was like the clutch the pearls girl. Is that coming from where you're come, where you come from? Yeah.
Yeah. I've never, like the first time I went to a drag show, I was

Speaker 1 18, 17 or 18. And it was Hamburger Marys.
Oh, wow. And I was like,

Speaker 1 oh my God, why do they keep saying anus? That's disgusting.

Speaker 1 They do that. Yeah.
And I was like, I just went, I was like, that was so fun, but why do they have to just make everything so different?

Speaker 1 I feel strange. I was very rocky horror.
Yeah. Yes.
And I was like, what the hell? And then I just got addicted to it.

Speaker 1 So, and that has taken like a long time for me to be like, that is in my, actually in my blood now.

Speaker 1 And like to realize all of that, how it freaked me out at first was really just me not having any gay culture at all expressed in my life whatsoever. So like,

Speaker 1 and there was no sarcasm like that. There was no, like, I had no idea who John Waters was.

Speaker 1 Like, and like, it was so cool to like see a whole community of people being gross on purpose for the sake of being, for the sake of pearl clutching. Yes.
Yes. Yes.
Like that is amazing to me.

Speaker 1 I love tackiness. I fucking love bad hair.
I love bad style. I love camel toe.
I love,

Speaker 1 I love, love, love a bad dye job. I love roost.
I love like, I fucking love.

Speaker 1 when people get their teeth knocked out. I love like,

Speaker 1 I love that shit.

Speaker 1 Yeah, a nip. Give me a nip slam.
That's the least you could do. Like yeah.
So that culture of like trashy on purpose is so freeing to me. Yes, yes, yes.
I love that and the guinea pig culture.

Speaker 1 And I also

Speaker 1 really appreciate the two girls, don't remember the names, who also believed in fairies with me.

Speaker 1 I love the fairy culture. I think that they're real maybe.
I don't. I'm just going to say that.
And I really appreciate the fairy culture because fairies make me happy.

Speaker 1 And I lied to everyone that I saw them. You are a fairy drag queen guinea pig.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 Did you know that? Yeah. And you've known that.
You knew it. You knew it.
You've always known it deep down. I like, you know,

Speaker 1 I love that. Also,

Speaker 1 there's been a real awakening, which I grew up on the Barbie movies. Like the crazy anime.

Speaker 2 The animated ones. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I saw a compilation the other day of the Barbie animals

Speaker 1 of the, how fucking crazy it was and like Barbie raised me yeah

Speaker 1 fairies and Barbie is a huge thing Barbie fairytopia and that is where Bibble came from and Bibble is basically a flying guinea pig so yeah do you feel like the fairies visit you when you're writing when you're being creative are you channeling the fairies in a way are the fairies in the wall what are your muses like like i think the fairies are your muse i usually i would say yes fairies visit me but i think like the way i write now is from like, I take things that are really fucked up and then make it really like,

Speaker 1 I don't know, like, it's the same with like the subway. The lyrics are usually always darker.
Right. And they become like very, very dark and then they become like light.

Speaker 2 You do a brightening draft.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's always like heavy, dark.
And then, you know, then the fairies come and twinkle their fairy does. And it's like, yeah.

Speaker 1 Mate, all of a sudden can actually be on the radio.

Speaker 1 Sorry, I've given like three cultures. No,

Speaker 1 they're also good because they're sharing to each other.

Speaker 1 You need to keep sharing. I want to return to guinea pigs.
The sentence of the day.

Speaker 1 Because I had hamsters when I was little. Yeah.
And one of the most traumatic things I think I've ever been through, I tell you this. Every story.
They were named Chippendale.

Speaker 1 And one day my dad said, I have to talk to you. And I was like, what? And he basically was like, we don't have Chippendale anymore.
And I was like, what? They had eaten each other, Chapel.

Speaker 1 That's what happened. They had eaten each other alive.
I don't know if it was throws of passion. I don't know if they had a gay fight.

Speaker 2 They ate each other at the same time.

Speaker 1 Chip and Dale killed each other. It was, and then they didn't even win.
That's beta fish.

Speaker 1 What is that?

Speaker 2 Beta fish.

Speaker 1 They fight each other. They kill each other.
It couldn't compute. And now, getting older and knowing human nature and animal nature, I sort of get it.

Speaker 1 Like, they were cooped up together for a long time. God knows.

Speaker 1 They were Chip and Dale. That's hard.

Speaker 1 Boys are territorial. They're vicious.
It's true. But what were they territorial over? Like the space? They just, you know what? Fun fact about guinea pigs.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Like you can't, normally, most of the time, you can't have two, more than two together. And like you're lucky if they bond correctly as two boys.
Like you have to like

Speaker 1 bond them correctly or else they will fucking like try to kill each other. Wow.
Or maybe they just like did not get they were just not bonded correctly. Yeah.
Or they were

Speaker 1 they're a hamster. I don't know.
Yeah, did you did you have gay ones? I only had girls. Girls do really well with like multiple girls.
Oh god, it's not always the case. It is okay.

Speaker 1 It always is the case.

Speaker 2 Yeah, do you want to like have one now to like have around with?

Speaker 1 I wish I had.

Speaker 1 What is so like guinea pigs are not really

Speaker 1 children's pets. Like they're way more difficult to take care of than a dog or a cat.
Really? Yes.

Speaker 1 Because you can't just like pour them a bowl of food. Like they need a specific type of hay.
They need vitamin C. Like they need a specific type of fruits and vegetables.

Speaker 1 Like you have to give them supplements. And you also like have to clean their cage.
They can only have certain types of bedding. You have to exercise them.
You can't just let them wander around.

Speaker 1 Like they're not potty trained. They have to be cleaned and like they need bubble baths.
They need their nails trimmed. It's like not easy.
Really? No, we have very soon.

Speaker 1 So many people come to the rescue. We're like, This is my first pet.
I'm nine. And I'm like, Oh,

Speaker 1 and I think that's why so many people have so many traumatic stories because they're actually such difficult pets to have.

Speaker 1 And maybe I, maybe we just didn't know that because I'm imagining it's the same, like

Speaker 1 sociologically, I guess. I mean, because they killed each other, right? But everyone has a crazy hamster, guinea pig, or gerbil story.

Speaker 1 Gerbils.

Speaker 2 I can relate to the rodents.

Speaker 1 Are you emotionally Mohen Yang?

Speaker 1 I'm a rodent. No, you're not.

Speaker 1 Yes. Well, okay.
I know I'm maintenance.

Speaker 1 I'm little. You need your vitamin C.

Speaker 2 I need my vitamin C.

Speaker 1 I'm gonna need your pellets, your hay.

Speaker 2 I need my hay, hon. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Can I tell you, I'm vitamin D deficient.

Speaker 1 I don't know. Are you? So do you take like a vitamin D capsule? I must.
You should. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But it's like, sometimes getting out there in the sun is like, you know, it's better in theory, but then you get sunburned.

Speaker 1 Can I ask you? Yeah. Why do you,

Speaker 1 speaking of the sun and New York, cruising? Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I, this is like, I, someone asked me this, like a gay, a gay guy friend asked me the other day of like, why don't lesbians cruise? Huh.

Speaker 1 And I want to know what you think. This is what I think.
I think because gay sex is a lot more transactional and a lot more projection-y.

Speaker 1 So it's like, actually, it's funny.

Speaker 1 Like this, this person that I was sleeping with, we went on our first date and he goes, yeah, I don't hook up a lot because I feel that it's a lot to do with like projection and I don't really need that.

Speaker 1 Like talking about what we were talking about earlier about how like sex actually is like two people coming together and you usually can, I find this too.

Speaker 1 It's like when you have like good eye contact with someone or like the conversation is easy.

Speaker 1 That's why people talk about like the banter and it like just directly translates because That's what this person was looking for and is looking for. And I think even more me.

Speaker 1 And I've never really done like the cruisy thing and the like random hookup thing.

Speaker 1 Like, of course, I've done, I've, I've, I've experienced it and like experimented, but like, I never felt comfortable going in and out of those situations. A lot of people do.
And like, that's great.

Speaker 1 But I think it has to do with just what gay guys are looking for and needing out of sex. And it's just transactional.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 It can live in a marketplace. It can live in like a bathhouse or a park.

Speaker 1 It can live.

Speaker 2 There's a space for it. Whereas like, just to generalize, I feel like among lesbians, it's like, it's very, there's no like end point to sex necessarily.
It's emotional.

Speaker 1 It's like, yeah, it's, it's, it's achievement based.

Speaker 2 It's not achievement-based. There's, you're, you're investing time and energy and care for each other in a way that like is not going to be condensed into like a sexual interaction.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's our theory.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Does that sound right? I don't know.
I imagine you were like, well, the answer is

Speaker 1 I don't know the answer. I've just been because i

Speaker 1 um was naive and i went to central park and i was like everybody is loving the sun like everyone is just out in their speedos like

Speaker 1 no i mean it was the big audition yeah and i was like they're like someone was like they're cruising just and i was like i was like what cruise cruising what and so and i was like so i've just been asking like take on cruising and also why people think that it's not in the lesbian culture as much.

Speaker 1 I'm sure it is in some capacity that I just don't know about.

Speaker 1 I'm very out of the loop, but I am just, I'm very curious about it, what people's takes are, especially in New York. Yeah.
Because it's like,

Speaker 1 maybe it is in San Francisco more too, but I don't really know about it in LA.

Speaker 1 LA, I think, well, LA is, LA is weird because

Speaker 1 it's the king of this.

Speaker 2 Looking over your shoulder.

Speaker 1 It's constant. And you know what it is? It's like, it's not even cruising as much as it more is just like constant comparison and like wondering how if you can do better.

Speaker 1 That's kind of, and it's not to, again, I hate dragging a whole city because I love LA and like, but I have found with dating, it is a lot harder. A lot of people.

Speaker 1 A lot of people say that I came to New York because LA is like really hard to date in, especially when like you're not. Like, cause now I'm, I just turned 35.

Speaker 1 It's like I'm kind of looking now for something that could be my next like relationship.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I understand this. Like, I get it.
I, I, whatever, but it can be a little demoralizing as you get older and are looking for something else.

Speaker 1 So, better to just take yourself out of the environment entirely, which is why I moved to New York. There you go.
Move back.

Speaker 2 Also, New York, we don't have our fucking phones stolen as much at the Abbey.

Speaker 1 Wait, this is a thing.

Speaker 1 Have you heard about this? No, she's not. Did you hear what happened to the Pink Pony Club? You talked about it.
I know.

Speaker 1 Is it you doing it? No. We've all had our phones stolen.

Speaker 2 Remember, I went to, um, you know, I've never had my phone stolen.

Speaker 1 You guys have? I've had my phone stolen in West Hall. Not at the Abbey, but I've had three friends on one night have their phone stolen.
Yes. In West Hall.
And you know what they were saying?

Speaker 1 It was, it was, the theory was that it was a bunch of short women doing women because they could just

Speaker 1 not that they're picking on the women, but that was the theory.

Speaker 2 But they were, but they were picking on me.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. Why not short guys?

Speaker 1 Period. The short guys said that.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It was them.

Speaker 1 It was the short women they said.

Speaker 1 But it was, it became like epidemic there for a while in L.A. It's crazy.

Speaker 1 It's like, I don't know. My friend just got his phone stolen at the Grove.
So

Speaker 1 it's crazy out there right now. Barnes and Noble at the Grove.

Speaker 1 Where are you at?

Speaker 2 At the Aloe.

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 1 Is it Aloe? Is it not A-L-O? A-LO. Oh, I have no idea.

Speaker 2 I'm butchering it.

Speaker 1 Send us clothes and maybe we'll figure it out.

Speaker 1 No, but yeah, no, the grove. Wow.
Imagine cruising at the grove. It happens.
One time I saw my favorite porn star at the grove.

Speaker 1 Should I say who it is? No. His name is Chris Damned.
He's great. And I saw.
Chris Damned? Yeah. Fine.
That's awesome. But he's not like demonic.
He's like quite lovely. I love it.

Speaker 1 But, and by the way, a lot of people are my favorites.

Speaker 1 I don't have one favorite. At the time, he was, I was gagged because there he was at the grove.
Yeah. I was like, wow.
Where? A star.

Speaker 1 What if your Wi-Fi wasn't just Wi-Fi, but the magic holding your whole holiday together?

Speaker 2 Well, with Xfinity Wi-Fi, it kind of is.

Speaker 1 Picture this.

Speaker 1 Powered by their best, most elite, high-performing tech, this Wi-Fi doesn't just connect devices, it keeps the peace at home during the most wonderful and most stressful time of the year.

Speaker 2 It's kind of like having a little holiday helper working behind the scenes, making sure the holiday playlist never skips the beat and the video call with grandma doesn't freeze mid-cookie tutorial.

Speaker 1 It's Wi-Fi that keeps your whole home connected so you can actually enjoy the holiday magic chaos free. The best present of all.

Speaker 2 Let me paint a picture for you. A holiday movie marathon is streaming in the living room.

Speaker 2 Your kid is video chatting their friends from their tablet and your partner is shopping for too many gifts and cinnamon candles. Ah!

Speaker 2 Not this season, not with Xfinity Wi-Fi.

Speaker 1 With Xfinity, you can boost the Wi-Fi to your device only. So when you go to upload 200 photos of that cat in a cute little Santa hat, you won't see that dreaded failed to upload message.

Speaker 1 Not this season, not with Xfinity Wi-Fi. And what if you had a way to make sure family time during the holidays had zero distractions?

Speaker 1 With Xfinity Wi-Fi, you can pause the kids' Wi-Fi and enjoy those special moments together.

Speaker 2 And if you're wondering what other parental instincts your Wi-Fi has during this busy season, Xfinity protects your kids when they're online so you know they're safe, even if you're busy making cocoa or taste testing cookies.

Speaker 2 What?

Speaker 1 Someone has to make sure there's exactly the same amount of chocolate chips in each cookie.

Speaker 1 And what if your Wi-Fi could proactively fix issues before they even happen? Well, that's exactly what Xfinity Wi-Fi does.

Speaker 1 Like the friend who shows up with extra wrapping paper, bows, and tape before you even realize you're out. Because let's be honest, you never buy enough.

Speaker 2 Bottom line, Xfinity Wi-Fi isn't just smart, it's brilliant. And during the holidays, that brilliance, that's a gift.
Xfinity, imagine that.

Speaker 2 No one can resist a rule of culture. So here's one for the dating files.
Rule of culture number 72.

Speaker 1 Chemistry isn't just vibes, it's values.

Speaker 1 Because what's the point of matching with someone if you can't talk about the shows you binge, the books you dog ear, or all the hot takes you'll defend at brunch?

Speaker 2 I mean, you definitely have friends who have met their partners on Bumble, and it makes sense.

Speaker 2 It's not just about matching with someone, it's about finding someone who gets your references, your obsessions, your whole vibe. With shared interests and prompts, you don't just see a profile.

Speaker 2 You get a glimpse of someone's personality, which makes it even easier to start conversations that actually lead somewhere.

Speaker 1 Plus, with photo and ID verification, you can trust that the person you're talking to is real. With that added peace of mind, it's so much easier to show up as your full self.

Speaker 2 So whether your rule of culture is the best first state, start with the shared hot take on Renaissance, or compatibility is having the same hometown bodega order, download Bumble and turn those connections into something bigger.

Speaker 1 Download Bumble and start your love story. Who decides what you can do? Who gets to decide what you're capable of? Your boss? Your friends? Some stranger on the internet? No, no, and absolutely no.

Speaker 1 You decide.

Speaker 2 Only you. Ford shares that belief.
It's like engineered into their vehicles. An F-150 is all steel, sweat, and dreams.

Speaker 1 Right? Mm-hmm. A Ford Bronco is built for adventure, but you've got to get behind the wheel.
Can you? Yeah, you can. But you have to first.

Speaker 2 You have to. And a Mustang, the Mustang that conquers curves.

Speaker 1 You are more capable than you know. Like, for example, I never thought I could parallel park.
I just thought it wasn't something that was going to happen for me in my life.

Speaker 1 And not everyone gets to have every experience, you know? But then, suddenly, I did a parallel park and I thought, wow, I'm going to apply to Harvard. I didn't get in, but I did Parallel Park.

Speaker 2 Sometimes you just need to push.

Speaker 1 What is it that they say? Whether you think you can or you think you can't. You're right.

Speaker 2 Ready, set

Speaker 1 Ford. Visit Ford.com to learn more.
You ever just stop in the middle of a crazy day and realize, wow, I needed a break.

Speaker 2 It literally happened to me yesterday. I cracked open a Diet Coke, sat back for five minutes, total reset.

Speaker 1 Right? There's something about the crispy, refreshing taste of an ice-cold Diet Coke. It just hits.

Speaker 2 It's my little me moment, like make time for a Diet Coke break, you know?

Speaker 1 Exactly. Diet Coke is the perfect companion for all break moments.
Diet Coke. This is my taste.

Speaker 2 I think it's time.

Speaker 1 Oh my God, it might be time. It's time for me.
I don't think so, honey. I don't think so, honey.
And I like,

Speaker 1 I was sort of going back and forth about what I was going to do. I guess I'll do this.
Okay. Because we also had a caffeine conversation before getting on.

Speaker 1 Yeah, okay, I'll do this. So this is, I don't think so, honey.
It's our one minute segment where we take 60 seconds, aka one minute, if you really think about it, to rip something apart and cult.

Speaker 1 And here we go.

Speaker 2 This is Matt Rogers. I don't think so, honey.
It's time starts now.

Speaker 1 I don't think so, honey, that coffee gives you coffee breath. That sucks.
We need to figure it out.

Speaker 1 Like, actually, wake up in the morning and I'm become that person where I open my eyes and I need caffeine. I don't think, so, honey, that it's going to change anytime soon.

Speaker 1 Our guest is off caffeine, and I feel like I'm inspired by that, but it's just another one of my strange addictions.

Speaker 1 I now wake up in the morning, I and also now I have relationships at the coffee shops. Those are my girls.

Speaker 1 I have my girls in LA and I have my girls in New York, and I just realized in this moment, I'm leaving my apartment in LA and I'm leaving my girls.

Speaker 1 That's really hard. They're really sweet.
But back to what I was there, so sweet. Fernanda,

Speaker 1 she also stands Lana Del Real. She loves Lana.
And we, and like literally, when I said I was going to Coachella, she goes, I love Lana. She did.
15 seconds.

Speaker 1 And so she's an icon. But listen, the thing about coffee is it gives you coffee breath, which is so bad for kissing, speaking, breathing, et cetera, and more.

Speaker 1 And I just want to figure out a way to get my fix of caffeine. and not have coffee breath, I guess.
Here it is, Diet Coke, Celsius, et cetera. But I love coffee.

Speaker 2 I don't think so, honey. That's one minute.

Speaker 1 Like, I'm now at the place where

Speaker 2 you just got it. You just got to go cold turkey turkey on it.

Speaker 1 I think I think so, but it's like, now it's like so built into my life getting a cold brew right away.

Speaker 2 First thing when you wake up.

Speaker 1 I quit over Christmas break. And was it just because like you were getting?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I was just like going crazy. I was like already too anxious.
And so like, I was like, if I want to actually calm down, I have to take every stimulant away.

Speaker 1 Every stimulant. So wait, do you smoke weed?

Speaker 1 Not right now. Not right now.
Yeah. Yeah.
So like basically, are you in a place right now of like, there's nothing going in? Good.

Speaker 1 I wish. Let me say it as an asterisk.
I want a fuck ton of drugs, though. Like,

Speaker 1 I'm on like.

Speaker 2 But it's not recreational.

Speaker 1 No, not right now. No.
SSRI queen. Yeah.
Yeah. Come on.
I'm, yeah, I've got my, I also have insomnia.

Speaker 1 So like, and I'm bipolar. So it's like really hard if you are like not sleeping and doing weed.
Yeah. So it's

Speaker 1 cocktail. The cocktail, but I do love an edible.
I do love shrimps. Thank you, Silo, for sending me a box.
I don't know how you did that legally. Hey, Silo.
We're a Madden Bowen. And we can

Speaker 1 love that.

Speaker 1 I know. Next time,

Speaker 1 but I agree with you. It's really hard.

Speaker 1 Quitting caffeine sucks for four weeks straight. Well, because

Speaker 1 what we're not reckoning with is it is a drug. Totally.
Of course. It is a drug.
Like, and I now actually wondered about that, like people that are in AA and stuff.

Speaker 1 Like, I wonder what the relationship is with caffeine.

Speaker 2 I'm sure there's a support group out there for you.

Speaker 1 That's wild. I think we can, let's do it together.
Well, it's like added to the list.

Speaker 1 I'm now at the place where it's just like, I don't know why I keep doing this, but I just keep, I'm moving to a new apartment in New York and I keep associating that with the day my new life will begin.

Speaker 1 But like, you can't. That's like, that's like addict speak to you to yourself.
It's like, well.

Speaker 1 I'll be, I'll be sober from this thing by age 35 or like, I'll just stop doing this on May 12th. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 It's like, it's like but why wouldn't you just stop doing it now right yeah so that's me with caffeine and this would solve my coffee breath problem period i think very afraid of people like i think that one of the worst things that could happen is for people to be like oh he has bad breath that's bad that is

Speaker 1 my worst nightmare yeah someone's saying that don't worry anyway don't worry about it okay bow and yang you actually came in galvanized today i did okay

Speaker 1 so this is bow and Yang's. I don't think so, honey.
His time starts now.

Speaker 2 I don't think so, honey. Ampersands.

Speaker 1 You're doing too much.

Speaker 2 Why do you look like that? Why do you look like other ways? Stay in one lane. Figure out one look.
I'm going to draw an ampersand right now. Okay.

Speaker 2 And now I have Carpal Tunnel.

Speaker 1 That is crazy, that shape. And here's, I looked it up.

Speaker 2 This is what ampersand is short for, quote unquote. And per se, and.

Speaker 1 Honey, just say and. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Just say and. You will never be plus.
You You will never be universal, worldwide, global like plus is. Good luck finding an amperson in any non-Latin-based writing system.

Speaker 2 Plus is here to stay. Plus, everyone on earth, from children to elders, knows what plus means.
It will stand for and just fine.

Speaker 2 And if you're too lazy to write AND, honey, you're in for a rude awakening. Lots of other challenges in life up ahead for you.
Oh, amperson, it's not saving you time.

Speaker 2 It's going to give you wrist problems. And you're being stupid.

Speaker 1 And that's why

Speaker 1 I didn't stick to landing. No, I didn't.
No, you did. That was great.
That was Epic Universe. Thank you.
I have to say,

Speaker 1 especially as two people who often are Matt and Bowen and the Ampersand is in there, don't do it. Don't do it.
From now on, it's Matt plus Bowen, right?

Speaker 2 Matt plus Bowen. We were doing plus.
I've used an ampersand recently. I'm going to, I'm going to start to retroactively.

Speaker 1 You ended ampersand today.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 1 Thank you so much. Sorry.

Speaker 2 Thoughts on ampersand?

Speaker 1 I use it every day. No! Wait, wait, you're doing what? I, well, I write in cursive, and so it's like,

Speaker 1 I'm like,

Speaker 1 I use and sign all the time, though.

Speaker 1 How do you write it? How do you write it? I don't do that crazy eight thing.

Speaker 2 It's the crazy eight thing is you do the reverse three and the line down the middle.

Speaker 1 I just go, do, do,

Speaker 1 it looks like an upside down four. No, that's a plus sign.
Yeah. Okay, then I do that.
Wait, wait, wait. Because you've also done it, I don't think so, honey, on the letter nine.
On the letter nine.

Speaker 1 No, sorry, the number nine. Sesame Street, reach out.
You need us there to teach the children. Wait, the number nine.

Speaker 1 So wait, if you don't like ampersand, how can you stand by the number eight?

Speaker 2 Because eight represents the number eight.

Speaker 1 But it still would give you a carpal tunnel if asked to write it, if tasked with writing it.

Speaker 2 And it's easier for me to write eight, the numeral, than it is to write E-I-G-H-T.

Speaker 2 And it's barely saving you any time from writing A and D.

Speaker 1 I do agree that handwriting an ampersand is like a mindfuck, but you know, if you can figure it out, which just seems to be a lot of fun. Upside down for play.

Speaker 2 I support.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 Chapel, I feel like you wrote your topic down, and we don't know what it is yet.

Speaker 1 This is how I do it. This is like, okay, is this the creative process?

Speaker 1 Are you always carrying around like a moleskin? This isn't mine. This is no, I know, but

Speaker 1 I'm in a world where it is yours. Go and go and announce.
Oh, that's chic.

Speaker 1 Really good. Thank you.
Okay, it's time. This is Chapel Rones.

Speaker 2 I don't think so, honey. Her time starts now.

Speaker 1 My i don't think so honey is stop

Speaker 1 let people get bad veneers let them

Speaker 1 let the people have bad veneers let them have good veneers let them fall out let them be pure white let them be look like coffee let them

Speaker 1 who cares if they don't fit what if they love them

Speaker 1 what if people love their veneers what if they saved up so long to get these veneers 30 seconds and then you say that they look fucked up

Speaker 1 Don't say that to them. Let the girls get veneers.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Like, let them look like buck teeth.

Speaker 1 And you know what? It's okay if they talk different. 15 seconds.
That's what happens when you change your teeth. You're just going to look and talk different.
And it's okay. Stop dragging them.

Speaker 1 Your teeth are probably busted, which is fine.

Speaker 1 But you know what? I'd support you if you got veneers and you're busted. Yeah, and that's one minute.
Okay, this is important. Wait,

Speaker 2 this is amazing.

Speaker 1 That's very American of people to be like, I know how teeth are supposed to look. Do you want to know my hottest take? Listen.
How people drag cosmetic surgery and drag cosmetic, whatever, la la la.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you know what's fucking cosmetic? Braces. Yeah.
So, you want to tell me you haven't had cosmetic work done, but you've had braces?

Speaker 1 Got them.

Speaker 2 Got them.

Speaker 1 Don't tell me that. We've all had gender-affirming care.

Speaker 2 And all me, me shaving my fucking stubble this morning is G-A-C.

Speaker 1 Wow. Not to go there.
But veneers,

Speaker 2 are you speaking?

Speaker 2 And I will say, this is especially meaningful coming from you because I feel like

Speaker 2 your orthodonture is very pristine.

Speaker 1 Because I had fucking, I had work done. You had to bring my teeth.
Yeah, I had fucking Invisalign for years because I could afford it. Right.
How, what was the Invisalign process like for you?

Speaker 1 I'm actually flirting with it in my brain because people have started to get a little mean about my teeth.

Speaker 1 Because they're american yeah wow it's only in the united states that it's fucking people are obsessed obsessed obsessed and if you do have straight teeth and they're fucking yellow they better not be like yeah yeah yeah and in reality bitch you have to have money to do this shit like it's so expensive no one has fucking health care no one has can afford fucking braces yeah like so i say let them be i say let it be we need girls with different teeth i never thought i had bad teeth i don't tell you have bad teeth you know what it is it's like they're just Okay, so this was evenly space.

Speaker 1 This is the truth. This is the truth.

Speaker 1 I did a very small role in a movie called Lyle Lyle Crocodile.

Speaker 2 A huge movie called Lyle Lyle Crocodile.

Speaker 1 My co-stars, Sean Mendez as the Crocodile and Constance Wu

Speaker 1 as herself.

Speaker 1 As a character. But she was.
And

Speaker 1 what was your character? So I played like Orion Seacrest, like America's Got Talent, like host, because of course Lyle Lyle goes and whilst the judge is at the end. Right.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 the little boy playing the lead, I'm saying this publicly,

Speaker 1 comes over to me, like, runs over to me and goes, I'm like, hey, what's up? He goes, you have sharp teeth like a shark. And I go,

Speaker 1 and I literally go, not a bad shark. You can't say that to people.
And he just runs away. And I was like, this little actor just dragged me to hell.
And then, you know what happened?

Speaker 1 I went into the goddamn bathroom and went like this.

Speaker 1 Pretty

Speaker 1 shine a light on my health words. Like Amelia thinking, like, what is wrong? And then they started saying, like, he needs braces, but I also want to tell you, I tuck it on one side of my mouth.

Speaker 1 So, but this is the stuff you Americans have gotten in my head. And then one guy I was dating said, never change the gap.

Speaker 1 Never change the gap.

Speaker 2 No, no, no. Everybody.

Speaker 1 I've dated. I've dated a lot of different teeth people.

Speaker 1 And I like them all. Yeah.

Speaker 1 As long as you don't have bad breath, who fucking cares? Right.

Speaker 1 That's my coffee. I love it.
I love it. I love when people have gold teeth.
I love it. When people have missing teeth.
I love it. Yes.
I just like, let's see.

Speaker 1 It's also just like, bitch, some parents could never fucking afford their kid to have braces.

Speaker 1 When you grow up, that's just what happens. I know.

Speaker 1 I know. And you know what? It's fucking hell to have braces.
And some people really need them

Speaker 1 because, or else they'll have actual like jaw problems or like teeth will start falling out because it's overcrowding. Whatever, bitch.

Speaker 1 Yeah, like, but I was actually admiring your teeth the whole time. Oh, really? Yeah, I was like, it's so, they're so cute and so white.
Thank you for saying that. Right.

Speaker 1 And you have very white teeth, too. Yes, Bo and Yang has a great teeth.
But I'm still situated.

Speaker 2 Thank you for saying this important thing about let veneers be yellow because they should be a little yellow because then someone's gonna say, well, those veneers are too white.

Speaker 1 It's like there's, you can't win with them.

Speaker 1 You won't win.

Speaker 1 You won't win. That's an important distinction.
It's not about about can't. It's not about should.

Speaker 1 Yeah, or you might win. You will not.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's for my therapist on Monday. That's Monday.
Honestly, are you going once a week? Oh, baby, I'm in twice a week. Yes.
I'm in twice a week.

Speaker 1 I have my biodynamic cranial sacral therapy. I have my acupuncture.
I have my, oh my girls. I need to try acupuncture.

Speaker 2 Acupuncture will slay.

Speaker 1 Really? I had to do it like 10 times until I really was like, I understand it. It takes a minute.
It takes a second.

Speaker 1 What do you mean, like physically, it's hard to adjust to it or it just wants to be a little bit different?

Speaker 1 Because like, you know, you're like, I was trained in like only medicine works, like only like taking medicine works.

Speaker 1 And so whenever I don't have like an immediate, like I take Tylenol and then I feel better. If I go and get acupuncture and I'm like, nothing's different.
Yeah. I was like, does this work?

Speaker 1 I don't know. And it's like with wellness medicine, you just, it's about,

Speaker 1 you have to keep fucking going and showing up.

Speaker 1 And like, I realized if like the actual acupuncture itself wasn't doing anything differently, I knew that every time I walked in there, I immediately got calmer. Yeah.
And that's enough.

Speaker 1 And now I believe that it's doing something. It is, you know, it's doing both now.
Right.

Speaker 2 I love that I'm just lying there for like a half hour and I can't do anything.

Speaker 1 Yeah. It's kind of cool.

Speaker 1 It is kind of cool. Today was kind of cool.
Today was very cool. We were so happy that you were able to come.
Like we've been wanting to do this with you for such a long time.

Speaker 1 And we are, you know, obviously, you know, it feels like even silly to say, but like, we are such fans. I know.
Like, we really like, I just think you're the best. You guys made me feel so special.

Speaker 1 You believed in the art. You were the start of the getting the queer community on board.
Oh, no. No, I'm serious.
Like, you, like, I remember you guys nominated for me.

Speaker 1 And you celebrate your exception stage from Buckingham Palace.

Speaker 1 We loved that. Buckingham Palace.
And I was like, I can't believe I'm nominated with like Muna. Like, that's so crazy.
I was like, this is crazy that these girls were all like nominated.

Speaker 1 That feels so big. And because I had never been like recognized on a platform that big yet.
So that was so, I don't know. I just really appreciate it.
And that you got it.

Speaker 1 Like, you were the first people in media to get it because you articulated it for the, to write for the first time. Cause you were like, it's campy.
There's lore.

Speaker 1 And I was like, finally, someone understands that it's a joke. Finally, they understand that I'm, everything I'm doing is like an homage or reference to like the queer elders.

Speaker 1 Finally, someone understands that it's deeper than just what I'm doing on stage or writing about. Like

Speaker 1 it felt so nice to be understood. That is what was so awesome.
I was like, it's working. And there's, they're the proof.
Like so working and you're so for real.

Speaker 1 And that we just like, it's been truly surreal and a joy even for us to watch everyone really embrace you.

Speaker 1 And I just hope that even sometimes when it feels difficult, you know just how held you are and how loved you are and how special we think you are. Thank you.
And like

Speaker 1 you'll always have a place right there

Speaker 1 and right here.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 2 Let's get veneers together. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 So we end every episode with a song, Bo. Great.

Speaker 1 I mean, we could do one of our guests, but also. Also,

Speaker 2 let's do it.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 caught in a bad romance.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 caught in a bad romance.

Speaker 2 I knew you'd go up.

Speaker 1 I went up. Bye.
I can hear everything. Bye.

Speaker 2 Lost Culture Races is a production by Will Farrell's Big Money Players and iHeartRadio Podcasts.

Speaker 1 Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Executive and produced by Anna Hosnier and produced by Becca Ramos.

Speaker 2 Edited and mixed by Doug Baim and Monique Bord.

Speaker 1 And our music is by Henry Kabirski.

Speaker 1 I'm stressed. I got invited to a friend's giving, and now there's the big question of what to bring.

Speaker 2 Well, just bring a bottle of Casamigos.

Speaker 1 Oh, Casamigos, of course.

Speaker 2 Nothing brings people together like a batch of Casamigos margaritas.

Speaker 1 A Casamigos margarita really is the perfect cocktail.

Speaker 2 Plus, Casamigos goes with everything.

Speaker 1 Turkey, stuffing, mac and cheese.

Speaker 2 Oh, I was thinking more cranberry juice or ginger beer, but that works too.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, the iconic rule of culture number 743. Anything goes with my Casamigos.
This France giving, you know what everyone will be grateful for? Casamigos? I was going to say you.

Speaker 1 And Casamigos. Oh,

Speaker 2 let's keep it in that order.

Speaker 1 Please drink responsibly. Imported by Casamigo Spirits Company, White Plains, New York.
Casamigos tequila, 40% alcohol by volume.

Speaker 1 The cuffing season storm is rolling in with potential heavy clouds of nostalgia for your ex, windstorms from our current situationship, and some light drivels of you up, techs.

Speaker 1 You know them, you love them. But amidst this emotional weather, there's one place with a refreshing microclimate of clear communication, radical honesty, and open-mindedness, and that's Field.

Speaker 2 Field is a connections app that asks you to show up and articulate your desires as you understand them. And if you don't understand them, say that.

Speaker 2 The Field community is made up of so many different kinds of people ranging in experience, interests, and desires. With Field, you have the space to change, to be honest, and to always be curious.

Speaker 1 So expand your curiosity. There are over 20 sexuality and gender identities listed on Field.

Speaker 2 And you can change. On Field, who you were yesterday may not be who you are today.
62% of Field members evolve their sexuality, interests, and desires within the first year on the app.

Speaker 1 See what you have in common with everybody else on Field. Know what you're looking for?

Speaker 1 Field just rolled out their shared desires feature that immediately shows you what you have in common with someone else.

Speaker 2 That's F-E-E-L-D. Download Field on the App Store or Google Play.

Speaker 1 If your bathroom routine needs a glow up, Goodwipes will deliver.

Speaker 2 They're soft, soothing, and actually flushable booty wipes. Plus, they're free from chemicals, parabens, and dyes, and are totally safe for sensitive skin.

Speaker 1 All right, let's bring some beauty to your booty, shall we? You can grab Good Wipes at Target, Walmart, Kroger, and most local grocery stores.

Speaker 2 As a special offer for Lost Culturistas listeners, Goodwipes is giving you your first pack free. For more details, head to goodwipes.com/slash culturistas.

Speaker 2 Again, that's goodwipes.com slash culturistas to snag a free pack of good wipes. Good wipes, because butts deserve better.

Speaker 1 You can't spell culturistas without R-I.

Speaker 1 That's right.

Speaker 2 Rhode Island is the perfect place, not just for the culturistas of the world, but all the other Easters too.

Speaker 1 We're talking about the food Easters, the theateristas, the natureistas, the luxuristas, whatever you're an Easter for, you'll find it in the ocean state.

Speaker 2 So start packing those bags and be the best Easter you can be.

Speaker 1 Rhode Island, all that.

Speaker 2 Plan your trip at visitroadisland.com. That's visitroadisland.com.

Speaker 1 This is an iHeart podcast.