"Mind The Gapping" (w/ Adam Selman)

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Look, man.

Oh, I see.

My eye.

Oh, my.

Bowen, look over there.

Wow, is that the culture?

Yes, goodness.

Wow.

Las Cultoristas.

Ding-dong.

Las cultoristas calling.

You caught me off guard there with the intro.

You threw it in.

What do you mean?

I can't familiarize.

Sometimes I have to face myself.

My heart is a patter.

Your heart's a patter, and you're in your athletic wear.

I'm in my Adam Selman sport.

Adam Selman sport.

I was, one of the great

honors of my life was being an ass man back in the day.

ASL an ass man.

Still an ass man.

Sorry, Seinfeld.

I'm an ass man.

Well, if it's, it's not a visual medium unless you're watching the video.

Unless you're watching the sun video or shining bright, you are ready to go take on the world.

This is, well, I'll let him describe it when we bring him on, but this is this.

I would say this is sort of like a super reflective, like, you know, the stripes that air traffic controllers might wear, but, but sort of writ large on across the entire

garment.

Yeah, be seen.

Be seen.

See and be seen.

I have to say, today is a big day, not only because our guest is on the podcast, but also because we are sort of resurrecting the Victoria Secret Fashion Show.

Are you, you're not going to be there?

I'm not going to be there.

I'm working.

Oh, my God.

I was like, he's going to have to work.

Damn.

It's okay.

I'm going to be there.

You know, I would be there with bells on my dick if I was available.

I'm going to be sitting there actually just fit for it today.

I'm giving you a little shimmer and a little shine.

Wow, just like to fit for the Victoria Secret Fashion Sasha.

This is going to be a really, really, really fun night.

Everyone has to tune in.

It's, if you're listening to this or watching this on Wednesday, October 15th, it's tonight, y'all.

It's on Amazon Prime at 7 p.m.

It will be.

the event that it was always meant to be.

Not that it wasn't before, but you know, we just, let's just like start clean with her, okay?

Yeah.

Guess what?

We're all, we're all, oh my God, Abercrombie's making great blazers.

Yeah.

Yes.

It's,

we're, we're resetting.

Everything's resetting.

Everything's resetting.

Everything's resetting.

Everything's back.

You know what else is now high fashion?

Marshalls.

Marshalls.

We're going to get that.

Get a load of Matt Rodgers and Boen Yang this December for Marshalls, baby.

Some girls are flopping, and I will address this in my own thing.

So, honey.

Who's who's?

You'll see.

You'll see.

I'm not afraid of calling this that because it's disgusting.

This is, this is

disgusting.

S apostrophe, S-G-U-S-T-I-N-G.

So this is, this is what we're saying on the SNL group chats.

We're going,

disgusting.

I thought for a second it was S-U-S.

You could feel like it's suspect and disgusting.

I really do want to start describing things as very suspect.

Very suspect.

I'm so thrilled about our guests.

This is amazing.

And I really think that our listeners, our readers rather are in for it because why don't you tell everyone a little bit about the guest and what he's accomplished and done.

Well, this guest has

really

made some iconic moves in the biz.

I first encountered our guest putting hot dogs on a rake for an Amy Sederis video.

That was the first time I clocked our guest and thought, who's that?

Who's that?

And then found out that he puts Miss Sederis in her amazing garments.

Has put Rihanna in some amazing garments, has worked with her at some point.

Savage Fengie,

as we said, out in Selman Sports.

And now he's executive creative director of the Victoria Seven Fashion Show.

Executive

executive.

Not just a fashion show.

And Victoria's Secret.

Olive and Pink.

And pink.

Pink was.

I might step into a pink moment.

I've been in a little bit of a pink moment.

It's great.

No one understands how good they look in pink.

It's actually real culture number eight.

No one understands how good they look in pink.

You look amazing in pink.

You do.

You do.

Everyone, please welcome our guest, Adam Selman.

Wow, this is hi, gentlemen.

I always love when we have a man with a deep voice on the show because it automatically puts us in like a

space.

How often have you been complimenting her timbre on your voice?

I'm very monotone, I will say.

So

really?

I don't think so.

Just there, you gave it a little.

You went, oh, see, I got to work on it.

I feel like the great fashion men who have great voices, you and Tom Ford.

You guys have great voices

in good company.

Yeah.

And it does always tend to be down here.

And then I have my moments.

I have my moments where I don't go high, but it goes wide.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

What do you mean?

Yeah.

It just gets very excited.

You know, I go, you know, wow, wow.

And then I have to bring it back down.

Yeah, of course.

Oh, yeah.

Maintain decorum.

Exactly.

So how have you been with maintaining a decorum amongst the supermodels?

I mean, so the models are coming in.

Yeah.

It's incredible.

It's such a dream.

Are you guys like model boys?

We're Earth.

We're dilettantes with the models.

We're great respecters and admirers of the icons.

I mean, I did a shoot with Adriana.

Wow.

Who's walking?

And who's walking?

On Belgium.

Like Legend of the Runway.

And she's just...

everything I wanted and more.

She's got five children.

Wow.

And then she came straight up to me and like held me and like wouldn't let me leave with like the curlers and the hair wearing like the VS robe, which I also brought for us.

Oh, in case he brought us in case we want to put them on, you know, because it is the day.

It is the day.

It's the day.

So

I think models feel a particular, not even just models, it's not exclusive to them vocationally.

I feel like they go to you and I'm just going to say

a lot of these men in fashion are not to be trusted.

Not to be trusted.

And they see you and they feel a comfort.

and you are very good at the executive stuff in fashion hence executive creative director i feel like they must go to you because of your your general magnetism i think i have like a working history with so many of them too so like that's like the fun part and then so i do feel like there's like a safe space about it but also like my job really is to make them look good right like it's not just making the brand look good and making me look good but like loving them and like feeling them i think is like the most powerful part Gigi was in yesterday too.

And I've been doing this thing where I'm like interviewing as many of them as possible.

And she just like burst into tears, like

line two.

And I was like, wow.

Why is it?

It's so emotional for them too.

Yeah, I mean, it's such an emotional thing, right?

And I think like, you know, it takes them back to like, they want to be chosen, they want to be felt, you know, and like, like those sort of old days, which I'm definitely trying to change, but it's also just like, it's an emotional thing, right?

And I think also it's 45 million people tuned in last year and like to like hear wear this you know it's like the tidiest thing and be like have at it you know so it's um it's just a beautiful thing to watch too i mean i feel like the emotion must come from the fact that it was i mean they were interacting with it at a time when it was pretty narrow in the definition of what the aesthetic was.

You have so many boxes to check when you're making them look good, the brand look good, and just

trying to

just trying to like balance and sort of like reset, as we were saying, like all of these things, right?

I mean, like, do you feel, what is, what is your way of sort of holding all of that?

I think what I keep saying is bringing the best of the past and propelling it into the future and somehow mixing it with the excess of the current.

culture.

Yes.

Right.

And sort of like parsing through the cultural clutter and just being like, let's own it, right?

Like no more apologies.

Like let's own sexy.

Let's like be forward thinking and also like i think my job again is to like be a steward of women at the same time and and bring out the best in them and make sure that like they feel comfortable like i would never put someone in like an uncomfortable position and they think i think people get that from me and like what i'm trying to build here yeah i feel like the the the number one thing i always think when i'm watching the show and i i watch them often because there's obviously great musical performances attached and I just love watching the musicians interact with the girls, which we'll talk about.

But I feel like the fact that it really is so empowering, it's not about like, wow, she looks so incredible.

It's like she looks like she's having so much fun in what she's wearing.

And it is like regardless of like, it just makes you feel propelled in yourself too, like watching them.

comfortable is i guess the thing that i always take from it yeah and i would hope that that would be beyond just the victoria's secret fashion show right like if you see somebody walking down the street, you're like, oh, she's amused because she is like owning it and she's like serving it.

And like, you're like, oh, I love how she put it together, right?

So I'm trying to channel that too.

And that's the fun part.

Even whenever I have my own brand, like doing the castings with the models was like my favorite part.

Like I would like sit in front of the table so I could have that exchange.

And like that was the best, best part.

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i just feel like

you i think the reason why i am so emotionally i've kept this i've kept all of your pieces for for for years now because

they were my proportions are whatever all obviously unique to me but like they're i have my little like things where i'm like okay i got short legs and i got no torso so i gotta like really like fit to that i feel like your clothes automatically made me feel just based on where the seams were and based on the structure of it and where things were placed.

I was like, I feel amazing in this.

I look amazing.

I feel great in this.

And I feel like that's been your signature is just having the seams sculpt the body in all these ways.

And I feel like you're so good at hiding certain things in the sort of support of it.

But like, I feel, I would imagine that with lingerie, you are limited in your area of sort of like cloaking or sort of like covering up those mechanical places.

Oh, no, I would say the opposite.

Actually, yeah, yeah, like, you know, because I do have like a long history of costume and even like making drag for like RuPaul and things like that.

And, you know, I have this great history and I'm able to take that.

And it's all, it's all about like working with illusion, right?

Like, that's all it is.

And, and with lingerie, right?

Like, it's all about like sort of adding or subtracting.

And bras is one of the place, when the place in the industry that there's actual innovation, which is really cool.

Tell me about that.

That was good.

I noticed I said our girlfriend weared that and she said this.

I don't know.

We're not on the same page today.

We're not in sickness.

Like with all of my girlfriends, I'm like, you're not wearing the right size bra.

And they're like, really?

Did you tell Greta that?

Yeah, I did.

And I actually put Greta in the right size bra.

Yeah, her brain.

Yeah.

And it's so fun, you know, because I think that like it's all, there's no standardization, right?

I can get real nerdy about this.

Like if you go back in like the history, and there was a world fair.

I'm going to get really nerdy, but there was a world fair.

This is like 1930 something.

Wow.

You know, and

they were like, let's find the most normal body, right, in America.

And so they did this thing, and they had Norma and Norman, and they were on the build it.

And then they used to do measuring parties because of the...

the industrialization of fashion, right?

It kind of was taking off then.

And then they did these things with

measuring parties for women because, you know, men, it was already in the military, but they didn't have the women, but of course, like no Italians, no blacks, you know, no, so it was like all white thin women, you know, and then so then they came up, normas,

so then they came up with this standardization and that's where like two, four, six, eight comes from.

Wow.

Yeah.

And so like, so that's where it started from, right?

So, but then, then you get into like how bra's changed in history, which BS has been around for 50 years.

And, you know, we really, really innovate, you know, and so there's like different kinds of foam.

There's different kinds of pads.

There's different kinds of push-ups.

There's different kinds of injection molds.

You know, so like things can feel more like tissue or harder to give you more support.

And like as you go through the range of cups, you know, and bands, like that's where it gets really technically, you know, interesting.

And I love, love, love that stuff.

And so you really can create an illusion, you know, with the different bra with a, you know, garter with a waist, you know, like the different panty cuts.

Like, I just find it fascinating.

It's really fun.

I mean, what are you looking at?

What made you say, Greta, you're wearing the wrong bra size?

Like, you just looked at like the space between the cups and the yeah, like there was like a little gapping, you know, yeah, and you can like look at like the fun.

Like, I hate gapping.

That bore.

Yeah.

Title that.

So then I was like, girl, you're on the wrong size.

And then we got her on the right side.

And I was like, what size are you?

And then she asked, and then, and I was like, no, no, no, we're going to, but, but she was close.

I wonder how many women don't know their real bra size.

I think that that's the hard part, right?

And like, most women have always been told they're wrong.

And then it's like, as opposed to making it like a fun thing, I would say if, if your friend, if Greta called you, if Amy called me, I would be like, oh, yes, let's go get you measured right away.

It'd be so fun.

Right.

But I don't think that like most people would think that that's a fun thing to do, but it could be so fun.

It could be so fun.

Cause the ritual for our generation has been like,

I'm speaking like for women who like

would go to JC Penny or something and get like, have a woman like squeeze them and then tell them.

Anytime like a measuring tape comes out, though, everyone like runs the other direction.

Minimally.

You need it.

You need it.

You know what I think is so funny is those people that even if they do know the people that look at you and are like, yeah, you're a 30s Juicy.

You know what I mean?

I'm like, I'm just like, yeah, but just, it's like when a waitress doesn't write down the order.

I'm like, you might mess up.

And I'm just saying, like, you don't, you don't know.

But there are experts for that.

And that's why you, like, if you go to a store, you can actually get measured, you know, fit and then be like, actually, that's not the right bra for you.

This is the right bra for you.

And there's so many different cuts and solutions and everything.

So I'm like, yeah, go for it.

Like, go get a group together.

Go do it.

You must have a lot of stories about like.

like seeing someone come in in discomfort or like unsure of themselves and then like putting them in something that's correct for them and then just like having like a total personality change.

Well, I think that that's what costume design taught me is because it's about like looking at someone and saying like that's not right for you.

Right.

It doesn't mean it's not right for things, but like this is not your era for that or this is not your like, you know, like, this is not the direction you're going or you don't feel quite like yourself.

And that, that's what I was good at with costume design.

And I think that that's what like my training was.

Like your parameters change based on the way the clothes look.

But then with costume, it's like it's a height it's it's you're you're you're putting on something for a heightened reality perhaps for the camera for stage whatever but I feel like your talent was always making it feel every day and lived in yeah I mean like with Rihanna like that was the thing it was like why are you wearing these like sparkly bodysuits whenever you're like the more most gorgeous person in the world yeah and like and you dress so amazingly on the street so like let's take that street style and like put it on stage like how do you like merge the two

And that was like, like, the big unlock, right?

And that's what like sort of like propelled her fashion career.

And like, that's like, luckily, she like hired me to do that.

Right.

And I would travel around the world and show up with like racks of clothes and just be like, this is just made for you.

And she would take it and style it and like make it incredible with Mel.

So it's amazing.

Mel.

I mean, I feel like,

I feel like the crystal dress at the CFDA

awards 2014, that I think that that felt like the beginning of like the modern idea of like viral fashion.

Right.

And like

what has been, what do you think has like reverberated the most from that moment?

What's so fascinating about it is like, I think everybody knows the dress.

Everybody knows the thing.

And like, and I like, obviously Dream Come True and like, you know, it was like so incredible because I wanted it.

Like I was like, this is, I want to do this.

This is like, let me present like Tom Ford actually had made something for her too, you know, and then she chose to wear that.

And like, you know, it was such a huge career defining thing.

But then like, I was so broke whenever I did it that like, I was tailoring a Nike job the next morning.

And so I was on set at 6.30 in the morning with my name splashed everywhere you can imagine.

And I'm tailoring Nike bras and leggings and stuff.

Having just dressed her for the correct.

You know, it was just like, it was like the most.

you know, surreal thing in the world because like, it was like I had to keep it going, my livelihood going.

But then I had had this huge career thing.

And so like, I think that like, and it was, it's such a good parallel, right?

Cause I think so many people think that like, even putting it on the show, right?

Like it's like this, I'm doing this amazing dream come true.

I'm like doing all the things.

that like I always told myself I could do.

Yeah.

Right.

And then, but then you have this other parallel happening of like your life.

Right.

And I'm sure you guys can relate to that too.

Like you're, you're out in public, you're out in, you know, and you, but you, you have to keep the wheels on the bus.

Right.

There's, there's a million unglamorous things that happen between

the glamorous ones.

And I feel like

I feel like I feel like I've been very lucky to be able to like see you in your space, like put together your clothes.

I really miss, this is what I miss the most on social media.

So burn it all down, but archive the social media posts.

And I, I, and I, I mourn these every day.

This was my ACMR for a while.

It was Adam Selman doing Adam Selman Sport like drops and just like going through each of the clothes and describing them.

And I don't know, it was the most...

It was influencer days.

It was your day.

It was influencer days, but it was just, I feel like I learned so much about construction because you were talking about the clothes like that.

But like, do you feel like, can you be as transparent about that at BS now?

Like, do you feel like there's this like?

Barrier for lack of a better word between like what you can reveal because it it is this like it is this industry secret that you have to keep in some way no I I think they would be thrilled if I was like down to like walk through product and like talk about it.

It's not your thing anymore.

Yeah, it's just like, I think I've like learned to sort of hold some space for myself.

And I think that like, even in the past few years,

like after I shut down Adam Selman and Adam Selman Sport, like, yeah, I just, I've taken a real step back, you know, and like, this is actually the first interview I've done in a long time.

So, but I mean, but it's a joy, right?

Because then it's like, I have new things to talk about.

I needed like that time to sort of re regain and like calibrate who who i want to be and what sides of myself that i want to show and that's like that's like the fun part about because like victoria's secret most people don't know that it's you know i'm driving a certain part of the ship and then there's a huge other part of the ship happening at the same time and she's such a massive company so there's a lot of magic elves making the magic happen yes i feel like if it's it was when i met you like i we met because you're close friends with greta yeah and the best and then it's then at the time you were like literally running Savage Fenty.

And I was like, that's such a fun, because you're such like a fun loving person.

And that brand is so severe.

Like it's, it's fun, but it's like, and like you're best friends with Amy Sederis and you're a goofy person.

But then also you have this like real eye for sophistication and like sex and like what's going to empower women.

And so I guess like it.

That's like fun you can bring to Victoria's Secret, which is why I think it's like such a genius brand for you because because the show is going to be fun.

It should be fun.

And so just speaking to the fun that's going to be on stage, like there's also the musical performances, which I think are such like an intrinsic, amazing part of the show.

Can you talk a little bit about what it's been like to bring the artists in and how that's come together?

Yeah, I keep saying like, there's a reason why I stepped away from pop stars, you know?

No, I'm just kidding.

It's like, it's been incredible.

Like, it's so fun to like enter the arena and actually kind of build the arena.

Yeah.

You know, um, and like, like, someone we have performing is Carol G.

That's so cool.

Oh my God.

Like, she's just, and I met her in Paris over the summer and she's just like so beautiful, so lovely, just so incredible.

And so it's a huge deal.

Yeah, huge deal.

So, I mean, like, it's just like a lot, a lot, a lot of fun.

And like, like building that world and helping them bring that show to life and create the fun is, um, you know, it's a dream come true.

It really is.

Who, what's, what's the full, what's like the roster for performances?

So

the lineup, I guess.

The lineup is Madison Beer.

We love Madison Beer.

We love Madison Beer.

Oh, my God.

She's so major.

And she's debuting a new song.

Wow.

Yeah.

So great music for that show, too.

Like really vibey, but intentional.

Yeah.

So Madison Beer and then Twice.

Cool.

Yeah.

Love Twice.

And then I'm Carol G and then Missy Elliott.

Wow.

That's pretty stabby.

That kind of appeals to all sectors.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Not that like you're, that's what the, you know, idea is, but it just, it's a great, that's a great lineup.

Yeah, it's a great lineup.

Twice is performing in pink.

We're bringing pink back to the show.

Which I love.

Which is so.

We heard about Barbie Ferrer.

I know.

That's going to be cool.

Yeah, she's just, she's been a longtime supporter of mine, too.

So like, it's, um, it's really, really fun to bring, bring some people back into the fold.

We met on a Deli Parton video.

Wait,

you were working on the Deli Parton video.

Yeah, yeah.

And like, and I was dressing the extras.

And then they're like the last day before I was going to leave.

They're like, will you dress Amy Seder?

So I was like, yeah.

Yeah, hello.

And then so I had to like sketch and then I had to like stay up all night and make stuff for her.

And then we went down and had like the best time.

And then

Judy, Dolly's assistant

was

next to her.

And then and then Dolly came over and was like, you know, Amy said, like, what's, what, what are you holding?

And then she was like, oh, Dolly's snacks.

And Dolly came around the corner and said, the smoky sausages are my favorite

mine too yeah yeah

i'm sure wait speaking of sausages and amy those those simple times videos were like yeah i think that was the first time i figured it out that like this was her creative team yeah because i don't think she did that for um for the for the hosting one for the entertaining one did she no no no no um that no she didn't do it for i like you

and then i did simple times crafts for poor people with her yes and

and and i worked on on all the photos and all the crafts and everything.

And then we decided to make these videos afterwards that just like just for her.

And it was so fun.

Was that, was that all shot in a day?

No, no, no.

It was shot over like the course of six months or something.

That set was the same the entire time.

Oh, that

was set.

Yeah, yeah.

The videos were set or I think over two or three days.

But the photos were,

yeah, yeah, of course.

Yeah, it took forever.

That book.

And it was so fun.

It's still so good to flip.

It's still so good to flip.

I have my, I have my Jerry Blank later.

Oh my God, I love that.

Can I lose this?

It's toast.

You can buy them at Cure Thrift.

She sells them.

Oh, really?

Okay, noted.

And then she sells dumb-dumb ones that look abore.

Oh, perfect.

I bet you are a beast to go thrift shopping with.

Yeah.

Do you like it?

I don't really thrift anymore.

Really?

Yeah.

I feel like you'd have such an incredible eye in one of those stores.

Sometimes, but like, sometimes it's like, ooh, you know, it's just, it's change, right?

I feel like they take all the good stuff.

Like, you really got to like parse through it yeah do you deep hop do you do go on that i sometimes there's it is just like it's it just feels so much less like connected yeah in a way it's just like you're not touching it you're not like yeah i don't know i guess i dress in a uniform

you know that's my drag so like i like i dress in a uniform and then i buy the same thing over and over and over so like you know now now i'm like trying to elevate it yes and what's the template that you're sort of like iterating on of mine.

Yes.

Like it's always like a jacket and like kind of like a Car Hardy pant and like a the right t-shirt or like the right polo, you know, like that.

And now I'm like, ooh, what's a belt?

I'm like, oh, I don't really wear it.

I don't know why.

I thought I was in Adam Selman drag today.

And it's because of my belt.

It's the belt.

Well, see, the belt.

Yeah.

And the jean and the jeans.

The jeans and the belt.

And I feel like that's you.

And I almost wore black cowboy boots then.

Oh, I got it.

But then I was like, no one's going to see them.

Yeah.

And they would hurt.

Yeah.

I used to wear cowboy boots exclusively.

I know.

I was trying to to give an homage.

And then, um, and then Levi's 505's orange tab.

Orange tab.

Yeah, yeah.

And I have 30 pairs of them.

And then I would have matted, because I don't like mismatching denim.

It really irks me.

So, like, you know, so I would have the matching jacket to the matching pant and then cowboy boots.

And then I used to have my hair in like a big pompadour with a mullet.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Let's talk about men's fashion.

What are you vibing on for 2026?

Not just in terms of the Adam Selman uniform, but like what should we be looking at?

um for the six gay guys that listen i i think

um

it's a good question actually i think um big pants are out big pants are out yeah yeah i think they hit a long

extent yeah yeah and i think we're going back and like the skinny jean thing is coming back like sorry but we want to see body see yeah yeah

it's i kind of feel like i made friends with the big pants late because being from long island it was very hard for me to sort of separate from like a fitted pant and then you look at them and you're like, okay, yeah, no.

And so to hear that they're now coming back is.

Do you guys have anything that you won't wear?

That I won't wear.

Like that you're like, that's not for me.

Can I tell you what I'm really over?

And I think it's as a result of seeing myself in it.

Short suits, like

shorts on the runway,

shorts on the red carpet.

And I think it was a great look.

I was just like, for some reason, I think it's always next to impossible to find the right shoe when you're wearing a short at like an event.

I was going to say,

I still haven't made up my mind on Caprice for me.

Okay.

Because of my leg length.

Yeah.

And also his legs are very thick.

Adam.

I feel like you guys are very, like in like a fashion era, though.

Like I'm uniform man, you know, but like, I feel like you guys like really like to experiment.

But we aspire to uniform.

But then I feel a a little bit Elizabeth Home Steve Jobs.

Exactly.

You're not doing it in that way.

No, no, no.

It's a constant tweaking.

Right.

What do you make of the phrase, don't wear what the fashion designers make, wear what the fashion designers wear?

Well,

it's a good concept,

right?

Yeah.

It's like, it's like, should people be copying your style instead of wearing, well, obviously they should wear what you're creating.

I guess for me, I'm more interested in dressing other people than I am myself.

And I try to give as much to that as possible.

So then, whenever I

kind of just don't want to think about it, it taints it if you start blurring the line between dressing yourself and dressing other people.

A little bit.

Really?

A little bit.

Or it's just like, I'd rather give than

you know, which is

just a piping.

You'd rather give, everyone.

You'd rather give.

Amen.

You'd rather give.

I remember that time that we hung out and we went through that book of birthdays.

I almost brought it actually.

I know.

What's the book of birthdays?

Is that just a birthday?

It says it says about the birthday and what you're made of.

It is a tome, and it's this thick, this wide.

Oh, I need this.

Yeah.

A full spread on every single day of the year.

Yeah, yeah.

And so every, and everyone, you know, everyone, like mine is like the day of the soul searcher, you know, so like that.

And then it gives your strengths and your weaknesses.

Oh, I wish you would brought it.

Okay, well, we can do a dial-in.

Okay, so.

And then, and then if you come over, you know, then I'll read you your when's your birthday?

March.

Mine is March.

Your Pisces.

Yeah, March 5th.

March 10th.

Oh, yeah.

You're halfway between me and the Ides.

Oh.

Dangerous day, the Ides of March.

Beware them.

Beware them.

Do you still live by the day of the soul search?

Or do you still, how, how, how textually...

It's uncanny.

Really?

Oh, it's so annoying.

Yeah, yeah.

I love it.

Like, my weaknesses are that I'm withdrawn and that I'm long-suffering.

No.

Long-suffering.

Long-suffering is rough.

But it's also like, you're not supposed to look at them as a weakness.

You know, it's like, like, it could be a positive too.

So the phrase long-suffering has always been like fabulous.

Losing hands.

Fabulous.

That's

long-suffering friends.

Any supporting actress nominee is playing someone who's long-suffering.

Long-suffering.

Yeah.

Everybody wants to play one.

Yeah.

The long-suffering wife.

The long-suffering.

Yeah.

You continue to be aspirational now.

See, that's the goal.

Everyone's constantly treaty.

Yes.

Yeah.

Do you remember what mine was?

I don't remember what yours was.

We really were.

And so I don't remember a thing.

Yeah.

But I just remember that, like, I was kind of like weighing whether or not it was true.

Because I don't like being told necessarily who I am.

See, even maybe that's part of it.

You're slightly defiant, you know, and then you're like.

Well, I will say astrologically, this new thing that I've been not fixated on, but that is resonating with me as a Scorpio is everyone's constantly like, oh, you're a Scorpio.

I'm like, yeah, yeah, sure.

But the thing that I think is particularly true now, more, not more so than ever, but just what I'm thinking about is like people will project things onto me.

They're like, you must be thinking this.

And I'm like, actually, I wasn't, but

your idea of me is that I think that, whatever.

Maybe, maybe that was in there.

I just really have to flip through the book again.

I'm going to call you and tell you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm going to look in.

I'm going to look today.

I'm going to go to the office later and I'm going to, I'll talk to you.

Is it possible for you to take a picture of my page?

Oh, well.

Oh, well.

Because that's just as good as getting the whole thing.

It's dense.

There's a lot there.

I've accepted and embraced pretty much everything about the way that astrology is right and right about me.

I was going to say right and wrong about me, but it's not wrong about me.

It is that annoying thing of like, oh, read me down.

Right.

It makes a great gift, too.

Like, if you're like, I don't know what to get this person for their birthday or whatever, like get the birth, the book of birthdays.

That's what it is.

The book of birthdays.

So I...

started seeing someone who is resistant to astrology.

And as a joke, I got him like a little book about Scorpios

and he's reading it.

And he's like, oh, it's kind of scary.

There's a vintage book called Gay Love Signs.

Gay Love Signs.

So good.

Yeah, yeah.

Because it's like, you're both into jackstraps.

And like, you know, it's like ridiculous, you know, things.

So recommended for that.

Yeah.

Okay.

You have a copy.

I have a copy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You got all the books?

Yeah, I got all the books.

Suzanne Summers.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm sure I read

the poetry book.

Oh, it's just

incredible.

Poetry?

Yeah.

She writes about houseplants.

You know, like it's, it's incredible.

Beautiful stuff.

Yeah.

I feel like that's a thing that we're missing.

And like, you should, like, like, tell Adriana to come out with a book of poem.

She knows.

She would crush that.

Adriana Lima?

Yeah, yeah.

She would actually crush that.

Really?

I think you have, like, they feel a kinship to you.

I think you should, like, obviously.

I'm going to do it.

Maybe before the show, I'll bring them all together and read them a poem.

Yeah.

And then, and then they could, I was doing the show notes the other day, and it was like maybe one of the most stressful things.

And I wrote a poem about it.

And then I was just like, I can't do this.

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This is also what I what I wanted to ask with you coming in.

It's like, what is like the backstage moment to you that you wish more people could understand?

I think I like, you know, like on the on the runway, like, I guess I went into this like really wanting to tell stories, right?

Like, you know, the soul searcher wanted to tell the story, right?

And like have these sort of like emotional moments, but like you can't really ask that of that many audiences, right?

And so to understand the story or no, no, to like understand like a deeper story, right?

Like, you know, like on the runway, it's like all about power and about like, you know, sexy and like kind of, I'm contextualizing it in the theme of day to night, right?

Like the show.

So it kind of gives it this theme, but I wanted to tell more stories, right?

And then and then I think that the actual stories probably play out in quieter moments backstage, right?

Like and like the connection, like what I just had with Gigi yesterday, or like the fact that Adriana is like holding on to me and I'll remember that forever.

And I think that like, you know, I think like the sisterhood of it all too, and like even just building the looks on them and doing that and making sure that they feel confident and like ready, like that's the part that like, I think the people don't get to experience, but that I hope sort of transcends onto the runway because that's what like the joy and like the fun part is, right?

And do you see a lot of community amongst the girls?

So much.

That's great.

Like so much.

And like, you know, and then I think like in the past, they would be like, who has the best butt?

You know, stuff like that.

Who's welcome?

Yeah.

But now it's more of like, I'm so excited to see someone.

I'm so excited to see Bella.

I'm so excited to see, you know, this person.

And that's like the fun part to see them all get excited about different ones.

Well, yeah.

And this is what I was saying earlier about the emotion of it.

It's like, it's, it's, it's, it's a new lease on it.

Like, I feel like in the past it was, it was icky because it was top down.

And now it's beautiful because it's bottom up.

You know, it's like they are the ones who like can create this and set the tone for what this can be.

Yeah.

And like have it sort of rise from from what it was, which, you know, I don't mean to keep bringing that up, but it's just, it's, it's a really beautiful, meaningful thing that you guys are sort of giving this a new life.

Yeah.

And I think it shows like the power of it, you know, like I think we all have stories of the brand of like growing up, you know, and like

your mom or your sister or like whatever, you know, your friend or whatever it is.

And like, and to be able to be like, this is actually your story.

For me to be able to say that to a model, this is actually your story.

It's not my story.

It's not that, you know, and like to take it and make it happen on the runway, I think is like the.

what I'm really trying to do.

And hopefully we can kind of tell the more of those stories in the surround as well.

Yeah.

I mean,

just the mere fact that Pink is having a moment will be fantastic.

Yeah.

I mean, also, like, like we talk, we obviously talk week in and week out about pop culture and like what's happening in it.

And the VS Fashion Show is a cultural institution.

I mean, it's monoculture.

It's one of those things that everyone knows what it is.

So the fact that it's going to come back in a brand new, fresh way, it's like one of, it's one of few things that we have that we can all look at and watch and like learn from and get excited about and, you know, be enthusiastic about for years to come.

So we're excited that you're doing it because you're the best.

Thank you.

And now we have to ask you the question of our podcast, the central question, which is what was the culture, Adam Selman, that made you say culture was for you?

I think for me, it was competitive cheerleading.

Okay, so this is another facet

of you that is, you know, you share this with Hannah Einbinder.

I know.

Was a competitive cheerleader.

So this is not the first guest we've had talk about this, but how serious was it?

How deep was it?

Well, we were junior Olympian gold medalist.

We were at NCA, like,

you know,

the thing, like, I don't know if you watch Cheer and stuff like that, but it was like NCA, like the whole thing.

And where was it?

I have the jacket.

It's in Texas.

Yes.

Texas.

You know, yeah, yeah.

CSI, the best in the nation.

You know who we are.

Cheer station.

Oh, yeah.

With that big booming voice.

So unbelievable.

So I'm assuming you are, you are the one who throws.

Throws and tumbles.

And, you know, I was not the best.

Like I was, I think I was decent, I was good.

And I could have gone to college for it and like done it.

But I wanted to go to art school as, you know, one does.

But, you know, it taught me so much about like, we had this thing called the spirit stick, you know, and I, you know, it was force.

It was real.

And it's not about how good you are.

It's about like, you know, how much you prop other people up and how much, you know, energy you show.

And I think I think about that a lot.

I think, think you know it surrounded me with women you know from the jump and like strong powerful funny you know like ridiculous women you know you know and like we're like tumbling into like and it's also a group thing too

to prepare you for being best friends with amy said truly truly a tiny woman you can download exactly

you can scream

so you know i think so i think that that set me up to be able to be like oh i can kind of do anything i want to do yeah and especially in texas you know, in the 90s, that like it was like, uh, that was not the thing to, for a guy to be doing.

What part of Texas?

Outside of Waco.

Outside of Waco.

So it's like right in the middle.

It's not like,

it's not like a little pocket of liberalism.

No, no.

No, no, no.

So, yeah.

It taught you about support.

It really did.

About like a literal, like,

emotional support, but also just in terms of like architecture.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Of like, okay, it has, this has to be an anchor here and this, whatever.

You know, I'm stretching here, maybe.

No, but isn't that structured?

Is that right?

No, no, no.

It's like, you know, and like, I guess we, you know, you don't think about it in the moment, but I think as we get older, it's like, oh my God, like, holy shit, like, these women like really did it.

And like, they were the supporting, you know, system.

So

I would be so curious.

I don't think I've heard you boom your voice.

I feel like I've always heard you at this frequency.

Don't hurt yourself.

I'm not saying I'm not putting you on the spot to do it now, but I'm just like, do you feel like this choice to like place it down here now was, is this a way to like

balance out like the just the usage of it

in that way, in that context?

No, I think that like,

you know, I think sometimes we like play characters of ourselves, right?

To try to figure ourselves out.

And like, I was a theater kid.

I was in, you know, cheerleading.

And I think that I, I kind of got it out of my system.

Yeah.

And I feel more comfortable in this, you know, like, and I feel very comfortable in myself right now, which is good.

But I don't feel like I need to be the booming person.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Like there, there are better people for that boom.

To boom.

You're looking to us to boom.

Yeah.

I'm looking to you to boom.

We can boom.

Yeah.

We can do, I know, I know.

You're right.

There's so much booming back in Waco.

I'm kind of like over.

I don't want to boom.

Bitch, you boom all the time.

You know what?

I wouldn't say you boom.

I would say you shriek.

You know what?

Yeah, sure.

I shrieked.

You boom.

I belt.

You belt, you boom.

I think you, you have one of the great, my favorite scream.

My favorite scream?

You have my favorite scream.

Like that.

Oh, the pork.

The pork.

That's my favorite.

I

is this, does this resonate with us?

It's like, I mean, I'm about to say something so snobby, but it's like, I, Halloween's coming up.

I'm like, I'm not a big Halloween person

because I have the privilege of putting on costumes for my job.

Exactly.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so, I don't know.

It's that thing where it's like, I have to like balance the scales a little bit.

Yeah.

You know?

Have you ever been a Halloween person?

I used to.

Yeah.

Were you?

I feel like in college I was a big Halloween person.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then like right after college, remember that year I dressed up as Mugatu.

Mugatu, he was great.

I was Mugatu.

I don't think I've told Will that.

Oh, you should.

Will.

Will, I remember, I remember just,

yeah, Halloween was my favorite day of the year as a kid.

It's always been like a little fraught for me.

I don't know why, but I think there's something about what you just said.

Like, maybe because I was always in college, I was always doing sketch.

So I was always in costumes.

I was dealing with so many costumes.

It was easy for me to just throw something together because I had a prop bag and I traveled with a prop prop closet because I was the director.

And I had literally, I was like, you want to be a doctor?

I got you, baby.

Which kind of doctor do you want to be?

Do you want to be a doctor who's covered in blood or do you want to be fresh and new?

Got both.

And I got variations on the kind.

But it was like then when the prop closet went away and I didn't have all those things anymore, I was like, oh no.

Right.

It becomes a day of thing for me every year.

I tend to do fine.

But you have a knack for putting together something at the last minute.

One year, Matt.

This is when we were like broke and just didn't have just the resources.

And so you

put on like a bob and you put on like one of Sudie's dresses and you were like a secretary at work.

I was a secretary at the work party who's going off.

Oh my God.

Like a just.

See, that is a gift, though.

To be able to bring it together last minute.

I usually like can put the character together and then I look and I'm like, oh, I know who she is, but I don't know what it is until like one year I was just like, oh God, I was like, I put together like,

it was like a, like a, like a button, the white button down and like a loose tie.

And I got like lipstink on my collar.

And I was like, I'm your husband having an affair.

You know what I mean?

Like, and then we did, you were Ash Katjum and I was Jason Stackhouse.

That was a good one.

That was a fun year.

I kind of want to bring back Jason Stackhouse.

Are you guys into like couples, you know, like pairing?

Have we ever asked Jason House?

Oh, you know what we did when we were Nicole Kimmen and Laura Dern?

Yes.

This is right.

This is right after Big Little Lives.

From Big Little Lives.

He was iPatron Renata.

That's a really good guy.

And I was Nicole with a Secret.

That's really good.

Can you do some of the voice?

Oh.

I want to.

I was Renata.

You were Renata.

So I was, I was Laura Dern.

You were Laura Dern with the eye patch, and I was Nicole Kidman, just sort of in the corner.

I didn't do a voice.

I was really quiet because I had so many secrets.

Laura didn't really have a stock line that season, but if it were post-season two, I would have said, I will not not be.

No, she did.

She did.

Do you want to know what it was?

What did I have one?

You weren't really doing it.

You did do it a bunch.

It was, I said thank you.

I said thank you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

I think that you had to remind him of that.

I said thank you.

Laura was so good.

So good.

A full decade ago at this point.

No, stop.

2025.

2015.

In 2025?

I think it was 2017.

It was 2017.

Oh, yeah.

It was 2017.

We're still time away from it being a decade since Big Little Eyes.

Jesus Christ.

We're getting there.

But is this your relationship with Halloween too as someone who's like has like an occupational relationship with costume?

Yeah, like I felt like I wouldn't do it unless I went big.

And I'm not good at the last minute thing.

Right.

So I, my thought, you know, I made a huge owl costume, you know, one time that was like huge.

You know, I took like sunglasses and put, you know, a thing and like took those

shoes with like the toes and I put claws on it.

Are they your favorite?

Yeah.

I love an owl.

Yeah.

My sister loves owls.

She collects them.

One taught to love, right?

Well, they say who,

they can see all the way around their head.

They're so cute.

They're excellent at the night.

And then they can move their heads all the way around.

I'm very into that.

Did you like that?

Yeah, yeah, I like that.

It's a little eerie when you see it in real life.

You want a bottom.

That's where it's just head all the way around.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah.

Pop, pop.

You want a bottom who?

Rubber neck.

Rubber necks.

Oh my God.

Can you imagine if you were behind in the throws and the bottom did a Linda Blair?

Sometimes.

Whatever.

Anyways.

Anyways.

So yeah, Alice are amazing.

They're so great.

They really are.

So competitive chill eating, you did not go to college for it.

I did not go to college for it.

I went to Brooklyn.

I'm took an art school.

You said, you said at that point like leave it leave it no and then i tried there was actually a new york city um cheerleading squad and so i was like i'm gonna go do that and then they were like oh we we do the parades and we do this and we go to the events and i was like i'm not into that no you just wanted to do it for the love of the game yeah yeah i wanted to like keep the competitive thing going you know

cheer squad i think that they did and you're pratt I was I was a prat yeah that could have yeah but I think I was kind of like

you know

what these prats No, because, you know, competitive, competitive cheerleading is the key word to it, you know, because I think that like that also taught me that ambition is rewarded.

You know, that like, so I mean, because people are cutthroat, you know, like they're really like, you know, ambitious with that.

They have a Pratt Summer.

Yeah.

They have a Pratt Summer.

And would you say that's generally true?

In fashion, that ambition is rewarded?

Yeah.

I would say, yeah, yeah.

Like do good work and people notice and, you know, and like, and just keep, keep at it.

Like, I think, like, Rick owen said something like the you just have to keep producing and then like your voice will come through like your style will come through right and i think that's generally true for a lot of things like just just keep the output keep the output even though it feels hard like the thing about

my current job is that we are expected to make things at an unreasonable clip like every week you're supposed to have ideas

and it's not totally sustainable but it does like get you to just like, it does like build you reps and like Matt knows this.

Like, it's, it's just, it just gives you some engine of like, okay, even if I don't feel like it, I got to do it.

Always,

you know, well, yes.

I was just thinking, like, speaking of output or lack thereof, are you to blame for why Rihanna doesn't put out music anymore?

And can you claim that?

I'm, I'm not going anywhere near that, actually.

I still get so many DMs to be like, can you get this in front of her?

Or like, can you?

Like, no.

Outside of that, though, like, working with her, what can you, what can you share about working with her and how she is as a collaborator?

Because I think everyone's most fascinated with her than maybe anyone.

Yeah.

I mean, she, she truly is incredible.

Like, she really is so inspiring to be around.

Like, she's so singular in her vision, you know, and that, like, and we have a shorthand, you know, and so she really would like trust me to be able to like output my best, you know, and I just, I cannot say enough good things about her.

It's so amazing.

You know, I'm so happy that she had a girl.

You know, like it's just so beautiful.

And like, and to watch her become a mother because she's always talked about that.

Like even having her cousins, you know, and like kids around, like she's always like holding them.

So I'm really, really happy for her on a personal level.

Yeah.

You know, but she's just spectacular.

Like, yeah.

That's beautiful.

And everything that people say about how she smells is also true.

She smells good.

She smells quite cool.

How would you describe what are the notes?

There's, There's different chapters, but like she layers.

Yeah.

So there's like a vanilla with like a little like amber, you know, and then there's like a hint of like a floral in there too.

But it really is like a signature thing.

Wow.

And even she wasn't able to get you into Housewives?

I was going to ask.

No.

I've never watched one episode.

What's your

allergy to it?

Because I think once I start, then I'll be locked inside for the next year watching it.

But don't you want to be like Re and just stay in and watch Housewives all the time?

Also, not go to Instagram.

The NDA is iron to

leather bound.

Oh my God, I love it.

Don't you want to be like us to watch Housewives all the time?

I can't do it.

I just watch Game of Thrones.

I just re-watched it.

You just, oh, you just re-watched it.

Rewatched it.

And I'm like, and like, that's exhausting and insane.

You know,

but the Housewives is something that doesn't really demand much of you, the viewer.

You can just fold your laundry as, as, and not even watch the screen.

But I feel like I'm, you know, I would get so hyped into it that I would, I would be picking fights, you know, like outside.

I would be like, oh, really?

You know, I think, I think that like that, it would rub off on me and not, and maybe not the best way.

Oh, I've said, we've gotten people into it and they've, and we've watched them become more argumentative.

Like we, we, we know someone who I don't think they would ever have done something like this, but pro like I introduced them to housewives.

And then one time they started up with me at a dinner in front of people and i was like i did this by getting you into housewives

i knew it i knew it i i knew that was not to say that was entirely all what that was there are intrinsic things about a person but i was like i was like the fact that i pres presented something to you that would create a reality in your mind that it's okay to do this at a dinner is my fault

i was like you were perfectly fine without this in your life no i disagree it's not your fault at all um but i but then you're you're implying that you are argumentative that you get into fights are you

competitive truly there are

culture i don't know you to be i don't know you to be like a uh like a a person who like i'm pretty direct i'm pretty direct it takes a lot to get me like um escalated but like i'm but even to get there i'll be super direct with well that's leadership yeah i feel like that's what leader that's what leadership is that's what directing is it's making decisions that you it's it's not about being right all the time exactly i think that's something that i love being wrong i love being ideas, you know, like all those things.

So.

Yeah.

Well, they get you somewhere as opposed to wishy-washiness or, you know, like a lot of like

bowing to other people's thoughts and ideas in too many like ways to try to include everyone.

And then the decision that's being made is a confused one or one that is not strong.

So I think it takes a really...

decisive person to be a leader because then we're getting somewhere.

We might not be where we thought we'd be, but you have to be decisive.

I've been thinking a lot about the difference between nice and kind.

You know, and then like, well, I think like nice, you know, it's like, it's like there's like a southern, you know, sort of, you know, genteel about it.

Right.

And, but then kind doesn't mean that you have to be nice.

You know, I think you can be direct, you can be like straightforward and still be kind about it, but you can be more direct and like, you know, have a, have a, have a heavier hand.

Right.

And so I've been thinking about that a lot, just about my approach.

Cause I, everyone's like, you're such a nice guy.

You know, I'm like, well, I don't want people to say that.

Right.

Because it does have a stigma.

It does have a little bit of...

Maybe this is from being gay too.

Exactly.

But do you feel like that?

That's a little boy in the world syndrome.

Right.

So it's sort of like, I do feel like when you're a gay person and you are like

engaging with the leadership, there is a thing where it's like, you can sort of tell that people are waiting for their opportunity to invalidate you.

Right.

You know what I mean?

And so what a nice guy is kind of like, don't,

don't, don't, don't let the word out there get out that I'm weak.

Yeah.

Because, or that I can be walked over because I'm a nice guy.

I'm a gay guy.

You said that in a really kind way is like, even, it's, even that is like, yeah, yeah.

I think like, oh, that was cutting, but in a really kind way.

Cause like,

disappointment is like the thing that people don't want to touch at all.

Sure.

You know, and blowing up has never worked for me ever.

It's never worked for me.

Really?

That's worked for me a couple of times.

But I feel like I would,

this is kind of a little bit lazy, but I feel like kindness is gestural.

It's an action.

And nice is like a tone or mannerism, like a manner of speaking, literally.

Like,

he told me that in a nice way, not in a kind way.

Like, he was kind in that he, like, you know, sent me a fruit basket when, you know, I suffered.

I suffered.

I was long suffering.

My thing is like i i just i feel like i can always tell when i'm being condescended to yes and i would just so much rather someone be like this is what i need from you and this is what it is so that we can get here great i know where i stand with you and i know what i need to do as opposed to um

yeah

so what i guess what we're thinking is it's just like i hate this don't equivocate i hate this energy and i think that like doing this show too like i've really had to put my you know

you know like channel big energy for it because it's not just the clothes and it's not just the models and the performers, but it's the music and, you know, like the stage design and like, like the vision, right?

Like it, it, once you start to give little pieces away of that, then like, that's when people chip away or like, you know, and then if you're nice about it, like, so I've had to be really, really direct and be like, that's not what I want.

This is what I want, you know, and try to get that across because it's, it's huge.

Like the expectations are huge.

Like, you know, like the vision is big.

And like, I want it, I want those two things to match up.

So it's been an interesting exercise for me.

What was

your

pre-performance or pre-event mentality in competitive cheerleading?

Does it, does it mirror anything now before a big event comes up?

Like, I think Matt and I learned a lot about

ourselves and each other before like the culture awards, let's say, where it's like, oh, fuck, this big thing is about to happen.

Like, we, but we better buckle down.

Right.

Yeah.

Right?

Like,

i just gotta chill you know like like what was your what was like what was like cheerleading atom like does that speak to what like v the vsf show like a vs show adam i i think that like cheerleading atom was fearless right was like like i don't care I'm doing it.

I know what to do.

And it was like a burst of energy.

Before, before an event?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, and like it was meaning like it was precision, right?

But it was like, but it was practice.

Yeah, practice, but it was more of like, like, let's go.

You know, it was like a lot to,

like, like, lots of energy and stuff like that.

So, like, so there was that.

But then now it's more, more methodical and more like thought out.

And I'm trying to think more ahead of the whole thing.

Right.

Like, you know, I'm like Coach Taylor from Friday Night Lights, you know, that like thinking more like that, like trying to get ahead of everything as opposed to like reacting to it in the moment.

Right.

Because you're trying to communicate all these things visually, you know, sonically, whatever, emotionally, but you are only in control of the delivery system to a certain point.

Completely.

Yeah.

And especially to 45, 50 million people.

Like there's only so much I can control of that.

And, you know, and, and, and it really is just about focusing on the present, focusing on the future, you know, focusing on like what I can do as opposed to like, like, sort of like all the noise that's, you know, coming in, but,

but I want to make a spectacle, right?

Like this is like, I mean, it's such a thing.

It's like the same thing with the awards.

I'm sure you're like, well, I've got this idea and I want to do this and I want to do that.

Yeah.

How are you with feedback?

Because like, like in terms of like what everyone says, because, you know, especially with lingerie, it's very sensitive.

I would imagine that it makes people feel all different kinds of ways.

And, you know, obviously Savage Fenty is like attached to Rihanna and her brand.

And there's like, you know, it almost feels like, I don't know if this is true, but because she's so bold and impenetrable and so assured.

And then people have different ideas about Victoria's Secret.

I'm sure that there's going to be and already has been like lots of like feedback and weighing in and stuff like that.

So are you prepared for that?

And how will you prepare for that?

And how do you deal with that in general?

I think I'm like, I know I can't be everything to everyone.

Right.

Right.

And I think that like,

you know, I love Savage X-Fente.

I love it.

I love Rihanna.

And I think there's room for both.

Right.

Like, I think that like, I think people want it like to go at it, but it's actually truly, it's its own world.

I think of like a Victoria's Secret is like its own world.

It's like two totally different things.

And like, I think what I'm doing here is a totally different thing than what I was doing there.

So

I think that like, I know I can't be everything to everyone.

I think it's more about like focusing on what I can do and like the vision and like bringing like.

what only I can bring to this and like seeing the opportunities of like, and it's not only here, but like, you know, the photo shoots, like the stories we can tell around, you know, around the brand that that's really going to bring it to life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Does the job require you to be in a lot of places or do you get to like work out of New York mostly?

It's mostly in New York.

And then we have a thing in Columbus as well.

So we kind of go back and forth and there's like a whole mock store there.

So we get

so we get to like see it all mocked up, you know, before, you know, like the season sets.

In the retail space?

In the retail space.

Yeah, yeah.

So I love seeing that.

And it's just like, you know, I don't know if you read that Demna thing this week that, you know, he's felt like at Blen Siaga, he had like carrots and potatoes, but he's a chef, you know, but now at Gucci, he has like, you know, all the ingredients

and stuff like that.

And I, you know, and I was like, it sounds bitchy, but like really, I'm like at Victory's Secret.

I'm like, oh my God, I have like a whole team.

Like there's resources.

There's like things to help me be able to keep my eye on the vision as opposed to like be in the weeds of things.

Because I think so much of my career, I was in the weeds of of the whole thing but how are you with delegating that fantastic great i love it it's so funny you realize you can do it yeah yeah exactly yeah

i mean it's it's just it feels so cool i remember when greta was telling me at least i think we were telling us at the same time that like you were you were moving to bs i was just like that is So perfect.

I feel like

if you've made me feel very good in clothes, I'm like, I just, just that feel.

And if I I, you can see.

Well, look at the canvas.

Stop, stop, stop, Adam.

But just like, you know, if you think it like scaling that to

this, this brand that like has a lot of emotional history with people is really powerful.

So it's really exciting.

And I thank you.

I can't wait for the show.

Thank you, me too.

I'm so excited for the 16th, actually.

Oh, for to be done.

To be done.

For your Invisalign?

Yeah, yeah, for my Invisalign.

You're going to go backstage like, go, go.

But you're not going to be able to watch it.

Yeah, so I'm going to be like that.

I'm wearing a GoPro.

Like everyone's like, you need to have a camera and a GoPro and a thing, you know, so they can like see the whole thing.

How are you putting the GoPro?

It's like, there's like a magnetized one as over like a little necklace with a thing.

So there's been like, that's like the footage that like, so you can kind of see what I'm doing like right before the models go.

And yeah, I think like, I like, I'm going to be like in tears afterwards.

Like it's just going to be, it's going to be so fun.

I'm so happy I'm going to be able to be there and Bubba will be there and spread.

I'm so happy you're coming.

I know.

I'm so excited.

Next year.

Next year.

Next year.

Right around the corner.

Do you want, would you design like

a jewelry moment for the GoPro if it's, if you're wearing it like on a necklace?

No.

You got your hands full of those.

I know.

You can get together.

Dazzle the GoPro.

There's so many other bedazzled things to get together.

Of course.

I'm sorry.

I'm sorry I brought it up.

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It's a time.

It's time.

It's time for I Don't Think So Honey.

Adam, this is our 60 second segment on this podcast, Lost Culture East.

We've been having it since episode one.

Yeah.

Why would this one be any different?

Well, we take a item in culture and we sort of look at it and throw it to the ground and stomp on it a lot.

And I

have a thing.

I have a thing.

Okay.

Scott Taylor.

Apparently, this is Matt Rogers.

I don't think so honey.

his time starts now.

I don't think so, honey, the discourse on Life of a Showgirl.

Congratulations.

You got what you wanted.

You made it not fun.

You have officially got to the point where you're screaming at someone that they're stupid because they like music.

This is pathetic.

I don't care what you think about it.

And I do mean you, everyone out there.

All that matters is my experience with it, which has been very similar to other Taylor Swift albums.

Eight songs that I'm fucking obsessed with, three that I think are pretty good, and one that I fucking hate that I'll probably love in nine minutes, in nine months.

Nine minutes even.

Nine minutes even, because I fucking hated it.

And that's the way it goes.

It is ridiculous that it has gotten to this place where you make a full assessment about a person because they like pop songs.

Please get a grip.

Posting on your close friends 10 stories about how you don't understand something.

No one required you understand it.

Like, don't understand it.

Go do your own thing.

You don't like that she's ubiquitous?

Stop making her ubiquitous.

I don't think so, honey.

And that's one minute.

I mean,

you're, you know, you're adding like, you're throwing a stone in the, I'm saying, you, as in, like, someone who, like, is saying, like, why are we talking about this so much?

But why are you talking about it?

It's, it's, it's it all just, it all just, it's all residue, you know.

This is all I'll say.

I think everyone's insane.

I get why you're insane, but I, but you are.

And this is.

This is insane because you should be.

Yeah.

And also, like, this isn't, this isn't me, a crazed Swifty defending it.

This is me, someone who observes what's going on and sees something really weird.

Like, it's also worthy of insanity, though.

It's worthy of insanity.

Yeah.

Well, that's what I'm saying.

People are insane because they should be.

He's a soul searcher.

I would be very curious to see what the birthday looks as.

Now, what defines what is the soul searcher?

Like, like, like, I'm always like looking for the next thing.

I'm always like, like, like, what does that mean?

Like, you know, what does that mean to me?

How can I better

myself and like things like that?

And like, or better a situation or whatever it is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Always searching.

Okay.

I guess I'm a soul searcher.

Yeah.

And now I'm searching for an I don't think so, honey, from my girl.

I needed to, you would pull up a visual aid.

So therefore, I need to hold on to my phone.

I am now pulling up the incredible clock for

Bowen Yang's.

I don't think so, honey.

And if is the visual aid ready?

It's ready.

Your time starts now.

I don't think so, honey.

These ai skechers uno ads that we've been seeing on the subway on the back of playbills i had a playbill the other week where this

this ad of sketch there's sorry with my little privacy screen on um why is this woman not wearing the shoe why is she why does she have red and blue stripes across her face what like Someone had to approve this.

And then look, the type treatment.

30 seconds.

Stroke on some fonts different weights different thicknesses different sort of heights different kernings i don't really understand

the the thought around this around putting this out 15 seconds for mass consumption this one of this woman i guess in a japanese village with five camel toes of horizontal labia on her jeans the shoes are barely featured and who is this girl she's county I just don't know why she's selling me shoes.

An ugly shoe.

That's one minute.

And I don't really get if, like, this can't, this better be, like, such a quick little hairpin turn in the way that fashion gets like advertised because we can't have more.

It looks like a video game.

Right.

It's not a shoe commercial.

Like, like, it's not, it shouldn't be selling me a shoe.

You know what I mean?

This is going to be a very visual one, guys.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I would think

on YouTube or on socials, we're going to put little

overlays.

But you know what I mean?

Like, why is this?

Why is this?

Why is this thing?

It's very frontal.

For sketchers, yeah.

It doesn't make sense to me.

I don't get it.

I love the product.

Sure, but like, I don't know.

Don't sell it this way.

This is awesome.

What story are they trying to tell?

What story are they trying to tell?

I am confused by the story.

Adam, don't do any of this.

No, no, no, no, no.

Not that you would.

That was like a video game.

Like, do you remember Stargirl?

What was Stargirl?

And like, and you just had like a bot and then she'd go shopping and she would pose and like she would go to a photo shoot and you, you know, that that's very star girl to me.

What's the best fashion marketing ever, in your opinion?

I mean, I think it was Tom Ford a Gucci.

I think,

I mean, it's, we can't escape it.

It was incredible.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That was a good thing.

We're still there.

I wish I could, I wish I was more tapped into it at the time.

Yeah.

I'm learning about it in retrospect.

Yeah.

And I'm like, oh, that sounds like a fun moment.

Even that whole time, it's like, no wonder I went into fashion.

You know, I couldn't avoid it.

Yeah.

I do think, did the Calvin Klein of it all like

ping you at all?

Oh, definitely.

Yeah, that was pretty much Marky Mark, like, made me into Whitey Tidies.

You know, I mean, he, like, that's like forever burned in my brain.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

For better or worse, that is one of the things it is one of those images that will stay.

Yeah.

That's a good image.

Every time there's a new Calvin Klein

ad, I'm always, I always think it's a little cultural moment.

Always.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's kind of an

achievement level for hot people.

Adam, it's your time.

I'm so nervous right now.

I understand.

It's a hard thing to do.

Be cute.

Be direct.

Don't equivocate.

Don't be nice.

Don't be kind.

Be kind.

Don't be nice.

Don't be nice.

However you want to interpret that.

Okay.

Are you ready?

Adam Selman.

This is your.

I don't think so, honey.

His time starts now.

I don't think so, honey.

Baddies.

Baddies are out.

Cutie patooties in.

Cutie patooties are the new future.

And you know what a cutie patootie?

We keep things tight.

We keep things sexy.

You know, it's like an off-the-shoulder.

It's a gentle fabric.

Baddies, we still love a batty.

We still want to feel a batty, but I don't think so, honey.

We have to move the needle past batty and into cutie patuti.

It's all about cutie patuties.

Do you know what's not?

Cutie patootie?

What?

Eating hot dogs.

Eating hot dogs are out.

So baddie.

Eating hot dogs are out.

And you know what goes along with hot dogs are lilies.

Lilies are also out because they smell like boiled hot dogs.

I don't think so, honey.

And like, we're not doing that.

We're not doing hot dogs.

We're not doing batting.

We're not doing lilies.

So don't, don't bring it around.

I don't think so, honey.

Like, we're going to

keep on it a cutie patootie energy for the future.

I'm so inspired.

I'm so inspired.

I have questions.

They're not meant to poke holes.

Yeah.

What about the smoked sausages?

Smoky sausages are different than hot dogs.

You know,

like if you go on a date with somebody to a theater and they're like, I just want to eat something and they take a hot dog, you know, and eat it in the dark.

Like, that's

not kitty patutie.

You know, like, everyone loves a hot dog in the dark.

What is it about hot dogs that are not kitty patuti to you?

The condiments?

They're too batty.

You know what I mean?

It's too much.

It's too much of a move.

Sure.

You know,

corn dogs?

Corn dogs, you can stay there because it's on a stick.

Yeah, yeah.

It's on a stick.

Corn dogs, kitty patuti?

Very cutie patio.

Get what I buy at wetmen's.

Corn dogs.

Corn dogs by the box.

Got it.

It's cutie patootie because it's on a stick.

Amazing.

Right?

It's on a stick.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's like, you can do a gentle dip.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

No mus.

Yeah, yeah.

No must, no fuss.

No must, no fuss.

You're not putting onions and relish on it.

You're not putting these things that'll slip and fall off.

That's bad.

I'd be like, that is bad.

I'm starting to see, I do love a hot dog.

Me too a lot.

Well,

you know, the new year is right around the corner, so get it out of your system because cutie patootie is coming in hot.

Yeah, yeah.

This relieves me because I've always identified as,

I can't identify, I can't self-label.

The way I've gotten through life as a gay man is being cutie patootie.

I'm never going to be baddy.

I'm never going to be like hot, hot.

But my stylist, Michael Fisher, goes, funny boy is, Funny Boy Boen is out.

We're doing sexy, bow.

And I'm like, sure, but.

Yeah, but cutie patootie is sexy.

It's sexy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's still very sexy, but it's a softer sexy.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

It's just, it's just a little gentler than like, bam, I'm sexy and I'm owning it.

You know what I mean?

Like it's, it's a, it's a, hey, look over here.

It's, it's, it's over the shoulder.

It's the owl of it all, you know?

But your good friend is the ultimate baddie, bad gal.

Well, you know what this is.

This is an Easter egg.

But she's also very cutie patootie.

This is an Easter egg.

So basically what he's saying is that in R9, what we can expect is more cutie patutie because

bad gal reread has always been through anti.

I mean, like, that was bad gal.

And so basically, like, what he's saying without saying it is he's giving us a clue.

After this interview, she's like, never going to talk to me ever again.

We know.

We can expect cutie petutie.

Yeah.

We can expect it.

Don't

get it pole.

Adam, what do you identify as?

Baddie or cutie patootie?

I'm cutie patootie.

I'm also,

I'm more of like,

I'm a gun girl, actually.

Access with a horse girl rising.

You know, but that's not in right now.

I'm talking in is cutie patootie.

And I don't know if I'm cutie patootie.

Guns and horses can be cutie patootie.

yeah yeah pew pew gun is

we're about to shoot guns

we're about to shoot guns

we're going to a bachelor party and we're i i i was tasked with locking down the the gun range that's so fun so we're doing it in new orleans and we're gonna go

shoot guns yeah that's the first time ever that's so fun you're gonna have a blast it really is a great time when was the last time you shot one um i'm gonna say maybe seven years ago wow yeah and well you're due yeah the seven years and my brother-in-law like set set up cocaine in my parents like field and we did it it was you ever go skeet shooting never been skeet shooting

i will say

a hot dog moment that stands out to me is cutie petootie

azalee band's licorice video she at the end Eats a hot dog in the most cutie patootie way.

And I'm not saying she is obviously baddie.

But she's obviously batty.

She's batty, but I think she can eat eat a hot dog in a very cutie-patootie way.

Yeah.

So I present that as a counter.

Cutie patootie rising.

Yeah.

Sure.

If you're genuinely, authentically cutie patootie, anything you do is going to be cutie patootie.

That's true.

It's true.

And if you embody it, you harness that cutie patootie energy.

Whereas if you're just such a baddie,

you've given me a lot to think about.

I want this to, before you fall asleep tonight, I want you to be thinking cutie patootie.

Like as you fall asleep.

I will.

I'm thinking of, I'm saying I'm going to be thinking about this for at least a year.

Okay.

I mean, but then we'll be on to something else, Bo.

And, you know, we got to seize this cutie patootie moment.

Or I will continue to hold down the cutie patootie,

you know, M.O.

until I die.

You've kind of always been.

You're like, you're like, what?

That's all I got.

It's all, it's all, it's, that's my only sort of, it's the only color I paint with.

And that's okay.

Yeah.

This is my time.

And then skinny jeans back in, not leggings.

Not leggings.

No, no, no, no, no.

Great.

No, no.

It's just, I feel like the, the, the wide pleat is no more got it really yeah interesting

do you feel like this is something that other stylists and people in fashion are talking about like like it's it's it's a buzz yeah i think it's a buzz i mean it's also just like everything's just been so we're so excessive right and it's just a full vomit yeah so i think it's it's sort of time to like clean it up a little bit sometimes i do see like like a pant that's really big and i'm like what are we doing here and and then i'm like if you if you if you take yourself out of it like you'd never wear that unless they if they weren't telling you that this is what fashion is.

All right.

All right.

We're back.

Tight and all.

I think.

Do you shop at Orally?

Do you do or?

I think there's some good jacket.

There's good pieces in the Adam Selman uniform from Orally.

Okay.

Oh, check it out.

Do you like Wyth?

I like Wythe.

I like Wythe too.

They're a new Discovery of.

I'm really into 45.

Love.

I mean, the president.

The president.

Yeah.

You said you're a gun shooting.

Texas go and Trump and Trump and Tutan.

Competitive cheerleader.

Competitive cheerleader.

Yeah.

Beautiful Venn diagram.

Yeah, wow.

What a guy.

People contain multitudes, Bo.

They do.

Never more than ever.

I hope everyone will tune in, and I cannot thank you enough.

We are so excited.

The show is tonight, 7 p.m.

on Amazon Prime.

And I guess because it's on there, you can stream it in perpetuity.

Keep it going.

Keep it going.

All we need is for Amazon to stay powerful.

Fingers crossed.

All right.

So this is so fun.

You're the best.

We're so happy to have you.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

This has been so fun.

We end every episode with a song.

What's my name?

Oh, Nana.

What's my name?

What's my name?

Hey, boy, I really want to see you.

You can go down town with a girl like me.

Hey, boy, I really want to be with you.

Cause you're just my type.

Onana Nana.

A cute fortune is a very good idea.

Keep for Judy's bar.

people contain multitudes.

Bye.

Lost Culture East.

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There's my at-home voice and my podcast voice.

My podcast voice is like a leveled-up version of me, kind of like the new DiGiorno wood-fired style crust pizza.

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Now that DiGiorno has new wood-fired style crust pizzas, I might start doing the show from home.

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