"Locked In" (w/ Tate McRae)

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Look, Matt. Oh, I see.
Wow. Bowen, look over there.
Wow, is that culture? Yes. Oh, my goodness.
Wow. Los Culturistas.
Ding dong, Los Culturistas calling. It's a big day.
We've sang our guest song in front of her already. Well, because I first heard about the truly seminal superb I was going to say superior single Two Hands through you because you were saying in the group chat, ooh, Two Hands just came onto the coffee shop and I couldn't help it.
It was a shoulder shaker in the coffee shop. But what did you say? You caught yourself just...
Gyrating. You were gyrating.
You were giving Tate in the coffee shop. I mean, listen, it's one of those.
It doesn't really matter who's around. Right.
You know what I'm saying? Just to, we haven't acknowledged this. This is, and we're not like big dogging in front of our guests or anything, but this is our first time we've seen our Webby Award.
2024 Webby Award winner, best podcast, individual episodes, comedy. Yeah, this is really good.
So we were thinking that maybe our guest could present us with the award. Yeah.
Taylor Cray, would you give us our Webby Award? Yeah, of course. What's a Webby Award? Okay, so a Webby Award is if you do anything on the internet like post or comment, you might get nominated.
You could get nominated for a Webby. Anyone with any online activity is sort of up for this.
Wow. This is Best Individual Episodic Comedy Episode.
Congratulations. Thank you so much.
And so, we're just kind of in our chairs. Yeah.
So, I guess just pretend you're opening an envelope. Well, we're nervous.
The 2024 Webby Award winner goes to Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Oh my God.
To get this from Tate McRae. Thank you, Tate.
Congratulations, guys. Oh my God.
Do you have a speech prepared? No. I just want to thank Tate McRae for gifting us with this.
We couldn't have got it from someone that's more important to culture at this moment. And this is going to dovetail into our intro.
So close to what? We are in the so close to what era? We're in the so close to what? We're in the Miss Possessive era. Miss Possessive tour era, as it were.
And we've been in the era. We've been in the era.
Okay. I think by the time this episode comes out, we've gotten to listen to the album early.

Album comes out February 21st.

Hitting.

Hitting.

Tour starts March 18th.

Is it a Pisces season tour?

It's a Pisces season tour.

No, I think it's just that.

No, we're after Pisces.

Yeah, I think it's after.

We'll talk about it.

Yeah, it's right after.

We got to talk about your signs.

Please.

We got to talk about your signs.

We got to talk about your signs.

There's some stuff to get to.

Can we bring out the tarot cards? We don't know shit.

She is someone who we've spoken about on this podcast

is an equally balanced

three header.

Just three hyphenate.

I guess it's two hyphens.

But it's three titles.

Singer, songwriter, dancer. all three.
She's truly incredible. The album hadn't come out.
Thank you, Leonard, hadn't come out when you were on SNL, right? No, I was still making it. You were still making it.
I'd heard Greedy, obviously. Had heard You Broke Me First.
I was like, I like this take. Oh, the first time I heard Tate was on You, on Troy's track.
Great song. Aw, I love that song.
Great song. And then she comes on SNL and then it's whatever.
We'll bring her in first and then I just want to tell you about this moment because it was truly an earth-shaking moment for everybody at SNL. Okay.
But we love her so much. Listen to the album out February 21st.
Please welcome into your ears, Tate McCray! Thank you for putting up with our bullshit and giving us our award. Thank you having me I didn't know I didn't know when to come in I was like should I sit back we actually do we do that intro for everyone and it's actually since we've started doing video people get really upset because they see the person sitting there it's sort of like it's not just like usually yeah I felt like it was like a closed conversation it was a closed conversation everyone the tots are going to be out there being like, why the fuck are they wasting her time?

But never,

no,

we'll never do that again.

They'll be fine.

They're sweet.

They're sweet.

Yeah.

To like sort of create a really nice fan community

has to feel good.

It does.

Yeah.

Yeah,

they're great.

Feels like the exception to the rule.

Feels like every fandom

is like a little bit mean.

They're terrifying.

All stans,

I think are a little terrifying.

Yeah.

How did we get here?

Were you ever a terrifying stan for someone?

Or did you get closest?

Honestly,

I think the closest fangirl

I've been is to Ariana Grande.

I've just been obsessed with her

for a very long time.

She's the closest I think I've gotten

and then maybe Rihanna.

I feel like those two are

the girls that I'll die for. So Ariana and Navy.
But because this is the thing like I'm sure the Britney comparisons are like flattering but at the same time you were like a zygote when she was like out there like Already very popular. I was thinking about that.
Like a lot of the millennial gays are like it's Britney 2.0 like get on board and I wonder how you feel about that because she wasn't like us where we remember when Britney came out. Yeah.
I think comparisons are just hard because obviously every person that comes into the scene, they instantly get a comparison because people just like familiarity. But I think it's just hard because you can't recreate great art like that like it's a new thing i bring this up not to like reiterate this but i'm just saying like you stay on r because that is your generation of like yeah coming up watching nicolodi being like oh my god i love her you know what i mean and it wasn't necessarily britney at the time because you were like still like like a baby like zero a true baby literally

zero years old

zero years old

baby vibes

yeah

do you miss being a baby?

a little bit

I want to be a baby

I want to be a baby

that naive

being that naive

is a nice feeling

I kind of want to be

an iPad baby

more than anything else

why is that?

just a baby

that's on the iPad

right

and they're in heaven

but their brains are

they're frying

they're frying

like a baby

that just can

absolutely slay

I'm saying everyone's wearing the slutty glasses. And I feel like you really pushed that forward in a huge way.
Really? And you should be so proud. Yes.
Thank you. I love the slutty glass.
Like, I think it's really nice. Right.
Why are you wearing them now? I didn't think it really fit the fit. Fuck.
Because they're a prop. Todayty day yeah it's a classy day well thank you for classing it up have you met Ariana yet? no I haven't really? okay let's call her please do you have a favorite Ariara? I mean Dangerous Woman was like yeah I just think that Into You is the best pop song ever created have you gone on record to say this before I actually don't think so this can unite this can heal the nation's wounds because we can all agree across generations that Into You is one of the best pop songs ever written I truly think it.
I truly think it is one of the best of all time. Yes.
And I think it like didn't at first like get the recognition that it deserved. No.
I do think it was actually pop perfection. And I remember talking to Ilya about it, who like produced the song.
And he was like, we crafted it over like such a long time. Yeah.
That like first pre-chorus is insane. Yeah.
Yeah. It's a perfect song.
So I think Dangerous Woman was like my favorite. There's also just like little album cuts that when I was younger were just like my shit.
Just like in the car, like really feeling them, like thinking about you. I love that.
And Touch It are just like I was going to say, say Touch It I almost feel like because Into You

looms so large

and people talk about

that song

even though it like

was a single

and people agree

it didn't get the shine

the song that gets lost

is Touch It

I fully agree

yeah

yeah

it's like serotonin

so good

those hooks

crazy

wait Ilya was

It's Okay I'm Okay

so talk about that

it's the first time

working with him right

I've worked with him

a couple times

no he did stuff

on the last album

Thank you. those hooks crazy wait Ilya was it's okay I'm okay so talk about that it's the first time working with him right I've worked with him a couple no he did stuff on the last album I've worked with him like a couple times but we haven't released that many records together I write all the time yeah yeah but this was like one of my first first ones I wrote with him when I first became like super aware of you was you broke me first and do you to know why? It's because I was scrolling and Kelly Clarkson had covered You Broke Me First on her show.
And I remember she did like a different arrangement of it. Like she did like a more like, Kelly Clarkson.
Kelly Clarkson. But the lyrics were jumping out.
And I was like, I get why she picked this song because the lyrics are great. And you're such a great writer.
And I feel like sometimes in the dance of it all, like when you see someone like slaying as hard and executing on such a level as you are, people aren't realizing that there's like real writing going on. Have you been doing that since before you started like taking dance as seriously or was it always like an equal passion or is that something that you discovered when you realized like recorded music could be a thing well i started off as a dancer yeah so trained super intensely since i was eight years old like 40 hours a week like wow i was at a ballet school i was gonna say you're ballet trained that's intense like six hours of ballet a day like very intense at one point i like literally went went to Berlin to become a ballerina.
Like, wow. And then I was like, this is for me.
Yeah. Because it was so difficult.
Yeah. I mean, I was 12 at the time I was like competing in ballet.
Like I was just like, I need to, I'm, I was so creative. I just needed to like not do the same thing every day.
Yeah. And then it was there.
You Can Dance after that? Yeah, I did 30 Think You Can Dance at age 13.

And then when I was 13,

so yeah, I was competing my whole life.

Dance was like everything to me.

I was like,

this is the only thing I'm going to do in my life is dance.

And then I went on,

so you think you can dance and moved to LA for two and a half months.

And then got back home to Calgary

and I was just like,

I am so bored. Right.
I was just on TV. You came third place.
Yeah. It was, it was a really crazy two and a half months.
Yeah. But you were in it till the bitter end.
We were in to the end. And I was like the only Canadian on this like American voted show.
Yeah. Right.
Which is kind of impressive to place third. Yeah.
It was, it was of my friends or family could vote in the show. I'm like, well, fuck, this sucks.
But yeah, so I got home and I started this YouTube channel and I was like, I'm going to choreograph dances every week and post them every Friday and post them on YouTube. And then one day my camera broke and I was like, fuck, my camera broke.
Like this is ruined. Like my Friday posting isn't happening.
So then I locked myself in my bedroom and I was just like, I'm just going to write a song. And so I taught myself how to play the chords of tequila by Dan and Shay.
Wow. Great song.
Wow. And I started playing these like C chords and then wrote this song in like two hours and then showed my parents and they were like absolutely not you cannot like put this on the internet why because they were just like this is like not good like they didn't get it at the time but you were in this zone you were locked the fuck in I was locked in for two hours you wrote a locked in.
They were like, can you please shut up? I was like singing so much. And then like blew up overnight and just became- That song? That song blew up overnight, like got called by like 14 record labels within like two weeks.
And then all of a sudden, like I was like, okay, maybe I should like start songwriting more. Wow.
Yeah. But I feel like there was a time when dance got kind of compartmentalized into something else, and then you merged the two, right? Yeah.
So then after, eventually when I released You Broke Me First at age 16, I was still in high school, homeschooling and finishing everything, and then doing dance on one side and then singing on the other side. And my career started to like pick up a little bit and, but I was stuck at home and COVID.
And so I started this like singing career, but I was like, dance is just so separate. Like this isn't a thing that should be mixed.
Like, and so I just never knew how to connect the dots. I was just like, this will be the one side of me.
And then the other side of me is just a thing of the past. Right.
And obviously as I grew up, like 17, 18, 19, I was just like, something is like really missing. And then I ended up like, I want to do pop more intensely.
Yeah. And so then I feel like I've like finally found a perfect mesh of like dance and singing.
So what happened at SNL was you came in on Thursday.

Yeah.

What happened?

I want to know your perspective.

It's just,

we,

cause we get the feed,

the camera feed upstairs on the 17th floor as we're writing and doing

rewrites for the week.

It was Jason Momoa as your host.

Yeah.

That was a fun show.

It was fun.

He was like giving everybody his like new vodka.

Did he give you a bottle of vodka?

No.

Okay.

Thank God. Cause you were a minor.
Yeah. But you were on the bleachers.
You were doing greedy. Yeah.
And everyone was like, it reminded me of when we, of when BTS came and like, they were doing their dances and everyone was like, like something about dance on that stage is really, really powerful. Right.
And you were doing it like throwing your, I love. I was going crazy.
Because, and this is a crazy comparison, but I've been watching like old Jackie Chan movies and like that man uses his body like a fucking Swiss army knife and you were doing the same. I was like, you were going off and we were all screaming and with joy being like, this girl is amazing.
And it was this moment in the writer's room where we were all like, we're just freaking out over you. Really? I was so nervous.
I would imagine. It also just feels like on that stage, it's so small.
It's so tiny. That like, doing a dance break, I was like, is this kind of weird? No.
I didn't know. No.
I really didn't know because I was just like, oh my god, is this like a little extra to be doing a full dance break on like a little box? No. But I get it because it is so much smaller than you think.
When you go in there, you're like, wait, this is the whole ass set. And also the sound in there is very like.
It's weird. The recruits are weird.
It's just a little empty sounding. Totally.
Like it's like full, but then also empty in a way. I could hear every sneaker.

That's so crazy to think about.

This is crazy.

It's basically like, we call them

the bleachers as it were, but it's like a mezzanine

and it's wide

and then the floor audience is to your

left. And so you're performing

this way, but most of the audience is

in this concentration.

You're not really performing to the audience. Or audience is like in this concentration.
Yes. You're not really

performing to the audience. No.

Or to the cameras in a way.

It's hard to parse it out.

But like, did like

the experience on like a TV show

help with that before or no?

I think so. Yeah.

The weird part about dancing and singing

is when I was a dancer, I used to like

hold all my nerves in my throat. Uh-huh my throat.
And then I could just cough on stage. And no one would hear me because the music was loud.
You're an asthma legend. I'm an asthma legend.
That's a crazy... The title of asthma legend.
Do you embrace it or did I say something insane? No, I do embrace it. Thank you.

Yeah, I mean, it's stuck with me.

You've had to embrace it.

I had to, yes, of course.

I've just heard you talk about your inhaler.

Yeah, I do.

I embrace it.

There's no choice but to embrace it.

Right, because it's there.

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Is Greedy the song that changed everything? Yes. Yeah, I think You Broke Me First changed like a little bit and then Grady I think changed just like the way people maybe looked at me.
Right. Just because they didn't know I danced.
That part. That's I guess what I mean is it's like when I say changed everything, I'm specifically talking about like the way that you fuse both sides of your creativity.
Yeah. Because honestly when I heard You Broke Me First, it would never have crossed my mind that you were not not only a dancer but the best dancer then when i found out you know she came from so you think you could dance i was like huh because it really doesn't polar opposite it's so polar opposite and so then you make this decision and it's greedy a song that unlocked things or was it like that's just the single in that group of things i think it unlocked a lot for me.
I think figuring out how to write over a beat

that I would actually dance to was like

mission impossible for me.

I was just like, I write ballads

and I know how to write over piano and chords

and things that make me feel things.

And then I basically just had to train myself

to write over beats.

It's hard. It's just like learning

how to do something.

Even the style of songwriting is changing

because you've also said that you like doing

your set of chords, but now it's like

Thank you. It's just like learning how to do something.
Even the style of songwriting is changing.

Because you've also said that like you like doing your set of chords. But now it's like songwriting now is like it's got to take a weird little turn.
It has to be in the middle or something. It has to be unpredictable.
Yeah. Is it hard to keep up with? I mean, yeah.
I think you're just times are different now. Like I used to write songs for my middle school and high school emotional self and that was just like my form of expression and very therapeutic for me and now it's like my career so it feels like now I envision it on tour I envision it like I think there's just like way more components that come into the songwriting room yeah that just change it for me and that's like very inspiring thinking about tour and thinking about performances while you're writing.
It has to be. It has to be.
Because I would imagine like, will you, will you break it down and like do like, not to reveal what you're going to be doing, but like, will you give an acoustic set? Like, is that something that excites you? Yeah, I love acoustic sets too. Yeah.
Because then it feels like that full side of me that, you know, isn't like the one I usually do on stage. Because you would imagine that it's like, like I'm someone that knew you from You Broke Me First and what struck me at first, because I wasn't even hearing you sing it.
I was hearing Kelly sing it. I was like, well, these lyrics are great.
And also for that to be one of your early songs, it's kind of complicated that like, it's like, it's kind of like complicated. And so this songwriting jumped out to me first and then, but,

but probably the world first like heard you

on Greedy

and like knows you

as a dancer.

So there's probably people,

most people don't know

that you're going to give

the songwriting depth

that you're going to give.

So that's going to be exciting

for people to discover

at the show.

Yeah.

I think my,

my real fans know that.

Sometimes it is difficult

because people only see

like me doing a dance break

online and they'll be like, she never sings. I i'm singing this whole show i've been singing i've been singing like i'm and sometimes they just like they only see the dance break so then i'm just like oh like oh it's sometimes like you need to watch the whole show you don't know you don't know picture.
I think, I think the rollout for this album has been like, mission accomplished. It's like, it's like, it is all living in the same space.
Thank you. Because like, it's okay, I'm okay.
Like the first time I saw it, I was like, oh my God. She's tits out getting arrested.
She's tits out getting arrested. I was like, it's a pop moment.
It's a pop moment. And then we went there.
And then two hands. I'm like, this is the best thing I've ever seen.
Yeah, it's really great. Thank you.
Do you have a car thing? It was mostly just because I feel like the album was, like a lot of it just was around like these road visuals. Every time that I would like write a song, I would just envision like a never ending road.
And maybe that was because I was literally on the road all year and like felt like things were never ending. But I had that like constant visual in my head.
So when I heard two hands, I was like, we could do a video like this that could be really sick. It's gas station.
And then sports car just happened to be named sports car.

Totally.

Okay.

You literally, you're saying tour felt never ending.

You just finished.

Yeah.

You're about to go back.

Yeah.

How does that sit with you?

I mean, luckily I love tour.

Yeah.

I think it's very fun.

This is also my first time doing arenas.

Yeah.

I was going to say.

Which has been like a lifelong dream of mine so I'm very like excited for that it feels like a new chapter I also as a dancer I feel like you are just used to just like never stopping oh I get that so the pace of life is it will be daunting for anyone but it's something that you're accustomed to yeah I think I think so. As a dancer.
Because the ballet training is like, you might as well be living at like a nunnery. That's like so disciplined.
It is. It's crazy.
It's exhausting. Honestly, that ballerinas, I think I'll have like one of the hardest jobs in the world.
Right. Yeah.
This is easier than that. Sometimes being a pop star feels a little easier in some way.
Like a little bit. Oh my God.
Like a little more relaxing. Do you find that you can connect with other pop girls? Because it sounds like, of course, for fans being like, oh, they think about the pop girly thing.
And there's that discussion, obviously, about Charlie and Lorde and them bridging the gap and everything. How have you felt it's been like entering that lexicon of people? You know what I mean? Of like pop girls? Yeah, do you feel like there's like support and it's cool? Yeah, I mean, we luckily, I think right now are in a time of just like, there's so much hate on the internet and so much hate in the world that like internally, it's just like very supportive, the most supportive um and all we want to do is see each other win yeah like all my friends and i we just have very wholesome relationships like anytime we hang out it's just very wholesome i think that's very lucky right now because it is like we all know how much we get like beat up on the internet so it's like nice to have friends that like are actually real.
Demonic outside your little cookie circle. Yeah.
Literally we're like, Oh, what should we do? Should we knit? Like, it's literally like very sweet. Cause the only thing you guys have in common is that you are getting insane energy from the internet.
Yeah. That is the only thing you guys share.
And that they do music. Yeah.
And then we write music. And that.
the, in that circumstance, you know what I mean? Like, that is, like, that's the thing. Yeah, it is.
It is weird. It is weird because sometimes, like, you're just like, I just started writing for fun, and then...
Yeah, and then it becomes this fucking thing. It becomes huge.
You're like, whoa, like, you don't expect to get... We know that you're, to be judged and music is subjective, but you never expect the personal attacks of it.
The war that breaks out. You're like, oh, this is a huge deal for no reason.
Right. And that is crazy.
Was Amy Allen... She was on Think Later too? You guys were working together even before that? Yeah, I started working with her on Think Later and this album.
And this album. I feel like she's getting this shine now because of the Grammy.
Yeah. She just won and working through you and Sabrina.
Talk about that process. Because it seems like you two are very keyed into each other in terms of the work ethic.
Yeah. I mean, Amy Allen is one of the most talented songwriters I've ever met in my life she's so incredible such a badass girl I worked with her and Julia Michaels a lot on this album I think it's just interesting like no one understands a girl perspective quite like another girl so like you can like have other producers in the room but it's just like she gets it like I can kind of just like say this is happening with my boyfriend be like, oh my God, exactly the same.
And it's easier to like put into words. Yeah.
Totally. But it is, it's very inspiring.
We have two different like processes and songwriting and obviously different perspectives because we're just have grown up differently. So it's, it's been really fun.
I just feel like I get new knowledge every time I work with her. So when you guys are together, is it like she hops on the keys?

And like, wait, what is it?

Like, what is it?

I'm literally like, sometimes when I see these people, like, I just wonder like who

actually plays in the room. You know what I mean?

The process to me is what's so

interesting. Okay, well, it

kind of depends. So if I'm in the studio

alone and I'm just writing on my own,

someone will play chords or whatever and I'll like sit in the corner for like a couple hours, write I'm in the studio alone and I'm just writing on my own, someone will play chords or whatever.

And I'll like sit in the corner for like a couple hours,

write,

go into the studio,

track,

and that's it.

If I'm with like a co-writer,

like an Amy or a Julia or a Ryan,

usually we'll start a beat or whatever.

We'll kind of get like the vibe for the song.

Then we'll discuss what the song is about.

Because you both need to be on the same page.

Right.

Because you're working towards the same goal.

Right.

And then it usually just becomes like this like you find the magic at some point of what the song is and what you both relate on and then you kind of just like spit back and forth like different lyrics back and forth and until the song is like built so but a lot of times it like starting with a beat and a track and then like a feeling develops around it. For sure.
Yeah. Yeah.
Is there a preference on a style? Is it like, is solo? Cause speaking, I mean, this is not quite the same thing. Like I always prefer writing with people.
Yeah. When it comes to like, you know, comedy or show or scripts or whatever.
It's like, I've learned to like not feel so bad about like, Oh, I don't do so well on my own. But like, do you have one preference? Um, it's honestly just different.
Like you, other people have different strengths. Like Ryan Tedder is so good at a pop chorus.
Like, and that is his strength. Calling card.
So I'm just like, God, if I'm going to like melodically. Yeah.
Like if I want to walk into a room and I want to write a pop song, like Ryan, Amy, those are like pop choruses that like usually write, the first thing they sing is like feels really good. But if I'm writing something that I feel like is hard to communicate, like sometimes I feel like I can't really, I have a hard time discussing my emotions.
Totally. So explaining it to someone is really even more complicated.

So what I do is I need to be alone.

I need to like have my subconscious thoughts,

like spit it out for me.

And then I can like find perspective on the situation,

the relationship, because I just really am not great at communicating.

And that's like why I started writing in the first place.

So,

but if I have like a concept,

it's less deep, deep, deep in the back of your head,

then it's fine with another person.

Yeah.

Cause either way you're just making sense of what the song is about.

Yeah.

Whether it's just you needing to like spill it out,

like spill for a couple hours or that you're like reconvening with Ryan and

Amy and Julia to be like, what is this going to be?

Like it's the same destination. And there's a lot of times where concepts are really obvious and they're like, oh, this is what I need to write about, whatever.
And then there's a lot of times where you can only find perspective at the end of the process because then you figure out what you actually meant. And that just takes a lot of digging.
Like, and that's where I need to be alone but but like if it is an obvious like concept and it's just like a something that is happening in my everyday life there's some things that are sometimes like buried so deep you're just like i don't even know where this came from what's an example of an obvious concept on on the album i would say an obvious concept like a song called signs i. We both said that was one of our favorites.
Signs is like the most obvious because I'm like, okay, can you please fucking read my mind? You need to just like do better. You need to be able to read me.
Yes. If this is going to move forward, I shouldn't have to do anything.
No, literally. You should just know already.
I get it. You should know already.
So this was me and Amy walking in. It was a five minute combo being like, literally read my mind.
And then we started writing the song. So that was very obvious.
Yes. Quick conversation.
Nothing too deep. I would say a song like Purple Lace Bra.
Yeah. Took a second to like, it was me writing some concepts on my own and then came into the room and I cracked it with Amy because I had an idea and she helped me like shape it a little bit so that one was like a little less obvious so just like connect all this to when you were younger because like songwriting is something you find out of like the camera breaking but but before that, like you're doing dance and we'll ask you like the, the central question of the podcast in a second.
But I just wonder like as someone who was around, you know, girls doing dance contests all the time. And like, that was such a fun thing that we all did with each other as kids.
Yeah. Like, did you have a long period of dance being really fun for you before it became like a job? And if so, or if not, how did you find the fun in it again? I've always just been obsessed with dance.
Yeah. So it never got like, it's too much on the schedule.
Like I'm hating dance right now. Not really.
It only started to get ugly at like age 16, 17, where I was like, I want to go to high school. I hear you.
And I want to be a kid. And I remember feeling that with like, I want to go to school with my brother.
I want to go to a party. Yeah.
I want to drink alcohol. I want to like, it was just like that feeling of like, I need to be normal.
Right. And yet you have this extraordinary gift and opportunity.
Yeah. it was like it was a catch-22 because i felt like the coolest i ever felt was when i was like in my element like i didn't feel like cool in school or like my personality always felt like a little awkward and so i was like oh i'll feel myself when i am in my art and in my craft and that's when people will like fully understand me So it was weird.
Cause then I went to high school and I was like, Oh my God, like now I've even more feelings because I feel so out of place. Yeah.
And it was like, I'm not at ballet school anymore. And so then it drove me after that to like, you know, I think really get into it again.
Like to go back to it. Yeah.
Cause high school is a fucking beast. Yeah.
I still think looking back, it was the hardest time. Yeah.
And they tried to, they really tried to make you think this is the best four years ever. You're always going to want to be the, you couldn't pay me to go back.
No, no, I felt the same. High school was interesting.
Calgary high school was interesting. Like, like what's the vibe in Calgary high school? Is it Degrassi? Probably the same.
You're like, Jake, I don't know. No, honestly, it was like, I don't, it was like normal.
It was just like. The vibe, okay, because I grew up in, for a quick little second, I grew up in Brossard in Quebec.
Oh, whoa, okay. And maybe it's a French Canadian thing, but it's like, it always seemed a little bit, ironically, it seemed a little bit grittier.
Okay. Like more in your face, but that's maybe the French, the French Canada thing.
Like probably Calgary. I don't know.
But Calgary feels like, it's like, it's not, it's not BC. It's like, it feels like for real Canadian.
It's like real Canada. You know what I mean? It is.
The streets.

It's the streets of Canada.

Yeah.

The one street.

The one street.

Wait, so, okay.

So, but it just, it was rough.

It was just hard.

It was, it made you feel like it made us feel like crazy.

Yeah.

It did.

It did make me feel a little crazy because I was just like, oh, I feel really out of place.

Yeah.

And I, I feel so, I thought I like overthought and overanalyzed myself before this. Now I'm like, my personality is like the biggest problem in the world.
So. But would you say like, did that be the songwriting at all? Yeah.
So that, that's when I like really started to, I mean, I loved writing since I was a little kid. I write short stories and poems all the time, but that's when I really started to get into songwriting because it felt so fucking crazy.
And I was just like, people need to get into songwriting.

People need

to get into songwriting because I felt so fucking crazy. And I was just like, people need to understand me.
It's like the second or third time you've said that it's about being understood. It's not about being like impressive or anything, which I think is so interesting because your skills are so impressive, but it's not about that.
It's about more you getting yourself across and being understood. For sure.
That's what it has always been for me. It's just like literally not being able to explain myself and then being able to explain myself fully through dance and singing and feeling so seen exactly how I want.
Yeah. That's weird.
You feel like when you listen to your albums, is that the number one thing you want? I feel like I got myself across there. Or what is it? That's the goal.
I think it's hard to do that because sometimes you're so locked in a bubble of perfecting songs that you're just like, what was that? But that's, I think, at the end of the day, the goal out of every album. I think last time you were like, I have a harder time writing from a place of joy and happiness because I...
Is that still true? Yeah, I think. You need to, you need to hurt.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I asked that in such a crazy way.
I'm just saying like, because you do write from this place of like, I need to get these emotions out. I need to process in this way.
And totally, I don't need to process happiness because I'm feeling happy. It's hard to be driven by happiness to express.

I think I'm a pretty happy person.

I asked that in such a crazy way. No, no, it was a great way.

It's exactly what it is. I feel like

I'm a very normally happy

and stable person.

But then there's one little

hole inside of me that's

so fucking sad.

I don't know what that is. That's what I write from.
Do you get closer to figuring it out? Like, is it like, what is it? Is it men? Has it been men? Well, it's not now. The answer is always yes.
Yeah. I get that.
I really don't know what it is. It's always like, it's been since I was like a little, little kid.
It might be because I'm a cancer. Yeah.
Okay. Cancer, Pisces, Scorpio.
Okay. I know more about Pisces than I do Scorpio.
Scorpio is the dark Pisces. Whoa.
And I say that in like all positive ways. Like Scorpio has the edge that Pisces can't muster up.
And I feel that way about too that we don't have the edge no no no you guys do have the edge you are a Cancer queen right we're like a little spicy but really sensitive but mostly protective right like so that's the hard shell whereas like Scorpio it's more of the stinger you know what I mean it's like Scorpio don't cross because I mean, I always say about him doesn't suffer fools

Right. Whereas I'm like I will give everyone the benefit of the doubt until and blame myself until I'm like a puddle

Right, but cancer and Pisces get along really well. Same with Scorpio

We're the three water signs. Yeah, kind of cool

We all belong splashing around together. We do in the ocean.
So we can protect each other but also open each other up

Yes, yeah, exactly

Yeah, but I feel like

Thank you. all belong splashing around together we do in the ocean so we can protect each other but also open each other up yes yeah exactly yeah but i feel like when you do write from a place of joy and happiness it like it is a huge sort of success because like two hands i feel like it's so joyful yeah it is well i think then that clicks into my like performer side yeah which feels like my alter ego feels like my side on tour, feels like the mode that isn't my like sensitive self is like what I turn on when it's time to perform.
Yes. And that's, if I'm going to write that kind of song, I have to be in that headspace.
So my question is like, when you are like creating a record that like pretty much already beforehand, because you've had such huge success on streaming and radio and everything, and you're such an exciting artist and you're creating a new album. Is there the pressure every time to go in there and like write a hit? Or is it more just about like, today we're writing a single or like today we're trying to fill out like something that I want to explore.
Like, I guess how intentional is the process of writing something that's meant to catch i mean it's so hard because i try not to approach it that way because you just want to like go in and experiment for like months and then there hits a point where your label's like okay where's the single though experimentation is done like where's the single and then it becomes really fucking stressful because then then you're just like oh my god what's the song and this is where I become the most indecisive person of course like my team like wants to shoot me when I'm picking a single because I can't decide don't hurt Kate but isn't it crazy though that like that they do turn to you and then they're like I'm even for me and my like comedy album they're comedy album, like they turned to me and they were like, so what's the single? And I was like, Oh, I was supposed to pick. I feel like, like, isn't that, don't you feel like it's kind of nice that it's your responsibility, but also you're like, Oh God, it's my responsibility.
You can't see it. It's like, you can't see your own work when you're in the middle of creating it.
Like, yeah. jumbles.
You're hearing yourself talk and sing back. You can't pick.
You can't pick from that. It's also such a ready-made drag from the fan community.
Like, oh, she picked the wrong single. You know what I mean? That's the worst fear.
We as people that talk about pop culture all the time, we're guilty of it. what I mean? Like when our fave, like in retrospect, like clearly should have picked something else as the first single.
It's like, you know, you're like, it's like a thing, but it's not as easy as hearing the hit. You can't read people's minds.
It's a special skill and I don't have it. I think you have it.
I literally cannot pick a single. It's so not obvious to me.
It all sounds the same.

But that shouldn't be part of your job. No.

And that sucks. It is literally part

of my job. And a very

important part. Yeah.
How have you felt

about the singles this go around? Like are you excited

about the ones you picked? Yeah.

I think so. I think

everything happens for a reason. Yeah.

And what's the reason?

The reason is like I think you can

always have doubts about songs

Thank you. I think so.
Yeah. I think everything happens for a reason.
Yeah. And what's the reason? The reason is like, I think you can always have doubts about songs, not like things about some songs, like things about other songs and wish.
The worst part is like, you love things. And then it's like the week to release, you know, this is the worst fucking song I've ever heard in my life.
Just because you've listened to it too much at that point? Yes, and now you're just processing it too much.

But I think Singles happen for a reason. I think they've

make sense

and the album will make

it all come together. Yeah.
Do you have a favorite

song? Off the album? Yeah.

What's the one you can't wait for everyone

to get to? Okay, I'm excited

for Blood on My Hands and

I'm excited for Like I Do because I feel like it's a little different. Like I Do is great.
Flo Millie I've loved forever. Yeah, she's great.
She's got like... Sounds great.
She does sound great. I've just also never done a song like that with a rapper.
Right. Oh, yeah, it's really cool.
Is this your first time with like a hip-hop feature? Yeah. Oh, great.
I know. Major.
It's fun. Major.
Major Lazer. Yeah.
Okay, I want to shout out green light because the bridge on that is it a vocal effect because there's like a like you know what I'm talking about it's sick thank you I love green light too I think that was another one of our favorites signs in green light were the ones we shouted out green light was one that I wrote on my own that was a hidden one where was like, I don't know how I feel right now in this relationship. And not in a bad way.
Not in like, I don't know how I feel. It was more or less just being like, what am I feeling? And what I had felt was I was like still hurt from a past relationship.
And then I was like, fuck, I feel like I'm like waiting at a green light and I literally just can't press the gas. And I thought that was such a weird feeling.
And that was like the road metaphor. But that one was fun to write.
I like that one too. There's like, there's, wow.
There's like the poetry in that is like huge. Thank you.
Yeah. I feel that way so many times.
Yeah. It's just, it's hard to believe in yourself.
Like, it's hard to believe that you're like, yeah, sure. You're giving me the go ahead, but is it going to be worth it once you like really get on the ride with me? Totally.
And it's scary. Of course.
Yeah. And also you just like can't unhear or undo things that have happened to you in the past.
No, you can't. They're just stuck with you.
Like you are now just a reflection of your past and you have to learn how to like have a better experience and overshadow that or, you know, fall in love again and feel the good things again. But you have to like jump off first before you fall in love.
I think the scary thing is it's like when you see how much you can give and how much it can go away, it's like, why would you ever do that again? I know. And also knowing that the people who give you the most, also you lose the most from them because they gave the most.
It's so weird. Like you never do this with friendships or with things in life where you are the closest person.
And then it's all of a sudden just like nothing. Yeah.
Like that is so shocking to the system. It's a death.
Like it is a death. Heartbreak is so awful.
Yeah. There's like, oh, I was talking about this the other day and I was just like, that was one of the like worst feelings ever.
Like any type of heartbreaks, you're just like, what is this? I shouldn't care this much, but I care so much. You care so much because also it's like, because it's not actually a death.
Yeah. Then people come in with their opinions on like, you know, how much, what you should be doing to get over it.
how much time is okay, but it's literally grief. It is the loss of a person and you wouldn't talk about someone's grief about an actual like loss to death in that way.
So I don't think people should necessarily be judging it. Like, every time I think of myself in my past being like, girl, come on, move on.
Like, you know what it is. It's like, now that I've been through stuff, like you can't, you can't.
I've never bought into like the, it takes this long to get over something. What do they say? Like half the duration of what it was.
It's like, really? That's wrong. It's just wrong.
Don't listen to people who tell you that. I agree.
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Okay, so it's time for us to ask the question that we ask of all of our guests. This is Tate McRae.
What was the culture that made you say culture was for you? This is when you can pinpoint, I think I started to become myself when that moment of pop culture like entered my life. I've thought long and hard about this because I'm really not like that into pop culture.
But that's fine. Any culture.
Okay. But I will say like one moment, I was like a big Disney channel kid when I was younger.
Yeah, let's go. And I really do think that that shaped my personality.
And I remember that Hannah Montana was life changing for me. Just like me being like, well, I have to become a pop girl now.
I have no other option. Like I have to become a pop star now because that is so sick.
I will have a place where I can put that version of me. Yeah.
She kind of was doing what you talked about, which is like, I do want to be a kid, but also I know I'm a superstar and that's how they'll understand me. Totally.
Yeah, no, that's how I kind of felt like in high school. Not to that extent, of course, but like a little bit.
Did that open up a country music for you too, in a way, or no? Like, did it make me want to do country music? Or just like, did it give you an appreciation? an appreciation? Like you're like Billy Ray. Like who's this man? Who's this man? I can see you doing country.
You know what? I can too because Calgary for some reason is kind of country. Like we have like this one month in the summertime where literally the whole place is like haystacks, cowboy hats, only country music.
Isn't there a festival? Yeah, Stampede. Yeah.
So weird. Like, it's just for one month.
Awesome. The whole town goes...
Goes country. Straight country.
Yeah, whatever. So I'm, like, actually into country music.
Yeah. But I did feel that, like, coming home, like, when Miley would come home and she'd sing The Climb and she'd take off her way.
It's just me.

Yeah.

I just like remember being like, this is going to be me one day.

But literally, look.

Yeah.

It's giving Hannah Montana.

Right.

Honestly, too.

Yeah, for sure.

Was it also a little bit like seeing Miley and also seeing her as someone that was...

Because I would imagine that it's like the Disney star thing looms so much around the Disney channel and like Hannah Montana. It's like you see kids that are your age or kids that you can identify with like in the industry proving that it's somehow possible.
Yeah. Yeah.
I think that was really shoved in our faces at that age of like Disney channel was glamorizing pop stars. Yeah.
I remember like Camp Rock even. That was our era.
Oh my god. Yes.
Yes. Exactly.
Just being like whoa. This is legit.
You want to be a star. I'm going to sing.
I just remember that feeling like this is the shit. This is the only thing in life is music.
Miley and Hannah are like the locust and does it then bring in like Selena and Zendaya and Ari I think that's the whole lore I think that's what I wish I could like go back and be like oh it was an earlier pinpoint but really it was Disney Channel that's the perfect pinpoint that was when like my brain was forming and I was that was I was watching every day being like, Alex and Mrs. Waverly Place is my personality.
Hannah Montana is my life. And I'm going to go do Camp Rock with Joe Jonas.
Like that was like my whole, like this is going to be my life. Yeah.
That's powerful. Right.
That's like, no, I'm, it's powerful. By the way, did we get Disney Channel in Canada? Yeah.
When I grew up there, it was like YTV was it. You didn't get it? Oh, YTV is like a channel.
But YTV was like Canada's Nickelodeon? We had, my family had Disney Channel. You didn't have cable.
I didn't even have cable, but like you would go to school and you would stay after school and you would watch YTV and there was a show called Uh-Oh and like you'd get slime. Can I tell you what you- I remember YTV.
Yeah, no. We had different versions of it.
Can I tell you what you would have been absolutely obsessed with? Because we're obviously the same age. You would have rode so hard for Lizzie McGuire.
I know I would have. Yeah.
Yeah, Lizzie McGuire was, she was everything. Yeah, she was.
She was. It was a sleepover in the fifth grade.
It was all boys, mind you. Okay.
And for some reason,

it was like midnight,

one of the boys,

straight as an arrow,

allegedly,

decides to put on Lizzie McGuire.

The movie or just the show?

Just the show.

And then it's all of these boys

talking about how hot Hilary Duff is.

Yeah.

Whoa.

And I was just like,

but she's being funny.

Yeah.

But you can't see her talent? I'm like, but she's so, but you can't see her talent but first and foremost she's a talent and they were all like that is so sweet but all these guys were like yanking it it's so weird to think about the concept of teen idol because that's essentially what what that is. It's like all the girls wanting to like, for example, it's like someone like Hilary Duff.
She's so famous at a time when everyone is going through puberty. Yes.
And that's weird. I know.
It is weird. That's crazy.
It is crazy. Very formative years in your life.
Yeah. I remember my friend, my friend, my friend, my friend's older brother had a life-size cutout

of Hilary Duff.

No, why?

And I was like,

now looking back,

I'm like,

what happened there?

No.

Red flag.

Red flag.

But then it's like,

it's,

I was so into her music too.

Right.

Like,

Come Clean.

I still think Come Clean

is one of the great songs.

The club remix of that.

So we're just seeing the talent.

We're just seeing the talent. Literally.
Literally. Okay.
How did you meet current boyfriend? How did I meet current boyfriend? I have known him for three years. We've been friends.
And it wasn't until last year I was in Cabo and he happened to be in Cabo at the same time. And we have never had one good interaction.
We're in the same friend group. So we have the same like, and we hang out all the time and we had never had one non-awkward experience.
Really? It's like a rivals to romance kind of thing. Like a little bit.
He's like, we weren't enemies. I'm like, yes, we were.
Like, we just had this feeling where like, every time we would say something to each other, was just like not what we planned to say like the most social suicide moments of all time like I would trip every time I'd see him or I'd like try to dab him up I'm like why the fuck did I just dab him up like so weird I wouldn't dab up anyone else literally I'm like what was that like I was so out of character and I remember used to be like, why do these friends like Tate? And I'd be like, why do my friends like Leroy? And how do we all get along? And then Cabo, we became- But you just happened to be in Cabo at the same time? Yeah. That's amazing.
And he texted me and he was like, are you here? And I was like, yes. And then we- Got together.
Got together. He's great on the album too, he's so great.
Thank you. Yeah.
I will say, do you think looking back now, it was a subconscious, you liked him the whole time? No. No.
I think I'm so about personality. Like if we have like a funny connection or like you like get me, that's when'll really get a crush on someone it's never from like first glance like ever and so he like got you eventually yeah cause we actually had good conversations that trip and like yeah it felt like we finally clicked we finally got each other was this after SNL? yes You and I were like in the room trying to like scope out.
You were like who's single? Oh that's so funny. I was like I was really in my single era.
There's a lot of eligible bachelors around there. What I told Tate was I don't think there are a lot of options.
There was no one at that party. Yeah I was sitting beside some people and I was like, we are not hitting it off.

One of my favorite stories is it was like SNL after party.

It was the Lizzo episode.

And you remember this?

We were all at the after party

and Lizzo came in ready to party.

She had changed her dress.

She came in ready to slay.

20 minutes later,

she leaves going,

guess not.

The party was dead.

Like sometimes

alchemy just isn't happening again. Because I've heard it's like, can we the craziest thing on earth? That night it was like, it was like mid-level.
Your words. Right? Yeah, yeah, sure.
It's like any party. It's like if there's an alchemy, there's an alchemy.
Totally. I can't speak ill of the SNL after party because it's, you know, this hallowed thing.
You, you were supposed to come in with the bird's eye view on the actual eligible guys there. But apparently- And I pitched a few, but I was like, but no, like Tate needs- They weren't working.
They weren't working. Like Tate needs something special.
And then look, now you're with your guy. Yeah.
But that was tough. I really don't like looking for guys.
Like it's so exhausting. It's the worst.
You would rather be pursued. I'd much rather be.
I'd much rather be, like, natural. Like, it just happens.
Yeah. Totally.
Like, friends to lovers. I'm like that.
That vibe. But that's Leroy in a way.
Yeah. That was that vibe for sure.
Which felt way more natural. Totally.
I'm not, like, a big, like, like, flirt up front. That's not the cancer vibe anyway.
No. Is that you flirt?

That's not me.

So the Tate on stage is not the Tate flirt game.

It is so funny.

The Tate on stage

is like so polar opposite

to my actual personality.

Yeah.

Hannah Montana.

Hannah Montana.

I'm going to get dragged

for a comparison.

Oh, please.

Why don't you?

We all wanted to be her.

We all wanted to be her

and she's an icon.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So I don't know this like

person that I am on stage.

My mom is always just like

I'm like I don't know she's like you're too sexy or you're too like it's too much the eyes are too intense it's not me like cause I have like these like lock in eyes like when you're on stage it's just like it you're on stage, it's just like, it's happening. Yeah, it's time.

Go time.

But it's just like very different from my actual personality.

So it's like shocking sometimes to my family.

Well, cause you're so,

you are very like chill and mellow in conversation.

And then like in the videos on stage,

it's like you are,

it's the eyes.

You're right.

You're locked in.

We're locked in.

But like two hands,

it's okay, I'm okay.

I'm just like,

even like run for the hills. I'm just like, you are, you are dial locked in.
We're locked in. But like two hands, it's okay, I'm okay.
I'm just like, even like Run for the Hills, I'm just like, you are dialed in in an amazing way. And I'm like, it's so interesting to hear you say that like it literally is Hannah, Montana.
In conclusion. Well, imagine you like went on stage for the first time you ever performed, like locked in, were galvanized and came off and it never went away.
Like your mom would be really freaked out then. That'd be terrifying.
My daughter's locked in. Right.
What do I do? Can you please help? My daughter's locked in. She's so locked in.
My daughter's too locked in. She's so dialed.
Yeah. Describe the persona.
Who is she? What's she about? My alter ego. Yeah.
Yeah. Sasha Fierce.
Literally. i've made it into like a joke so i talk about it like way too much like probably way more than i should but it's i call her tatiana tatiana is a really good name for her hey yeah tatiana and it's just when i go on stage i black out like i don't actually remember that much you just like perform i you know what you're saying because i've we leave our bodies sometimes or like you you feel this way yes right like you feel like you're it's now just like a thing with your body and god like in the universe and it's just like you get possessed and that's the best performance when i become too aware of like i always say this is like the craziest example when you're on stage and you become too aware and too in your body, it feels like you're like manually breathing.
You know when you're in bed and you're like and you remember that you have to breathe and then you stop breathing because you're like, this is really this is an automatic thing. I've never heard someone describe it this way.
This is huge. Don't think about it before bed.
Because you'll die. If you think about breathing before bed, you will stop breathing.
Because it is so automatic. When you become aware of yourself, it's over.
That's just it. And then when you're on stage and people watching you, forget how to like walk and move.
And so you have to turn it to someone else. I have to.
Otherwise I become way too aware. Right.
And then I could like do nothing normal. Like nothing is, it's just like, you have to be in a different body or a different space.
Like it's crazy conceptually to think about the fact that you wrote a song for two hours in your room. And then weeks later, it was like, okay, like a bunch of people saw this.
And now they're knocking on my door to like get me to sign. Yeah.
And then that's the kind of the same thing where it's like you wrote a song. First song you ever wrote.
First song you ever wrote. But it's like, it kind of translates to this idea of like, you wrote something and you like, it's a very intimate interior experience.
And then you're doing an arena tour with all these songs that you wrote in the privacy of your own studio you know yeah it's bizarre I don't know it's like a stoner thought but you know what I mean it's like it's crazy no that's crazy you wrote a song and then you had to perform it it's so crazy it's really crazy no but that's where where I get like all, that's where I feel like the universe is just like planning everything out because I'm like, these coincidences and these things happening aren't just like random. Like they're just meant to happen.
And I think that like, yeah, I feel like you know that from a young age. You kind of like know what you're going to do.
What's the venue that you're most gagged about performing? Like that you can't really believe is happening. Well, the forum will be fun.
The forum is going to be great. Doing a couple nights there, which will be fun.
And MSG again. Yes.
I love. That's wild.
I know. MSG is just special.
Just New York. I just bought a place in New York.
Good for you. Thank you.
New York is just like my place. Yes.
New York is the best. It's so magical there.
I love to hear it. Yeah.
Honestly, oh God. There is nothing like it.
Do you see a lot of live shows too? Do you go a lot of stuff? I try. I'm just on tour a lot.
Did you see the sweat tour? Yes, I did. Did you see that at Madison Square Garden? I saw that at the forum.
Okay, so I heard the forum was great. Madison Square Garden, I thought it was going to flip over.
Really? Yes, it was so crazy. Charlie's, I mean, Troy's music just sounds different in there because it's more of a vibe.
It was kind of breathing. I love the Charlie and Troy show because it was like, when Troy was out there, it was cool and pillowy and gorgeous.
And then Charlie came out and just punched you in the face. And it was rotating between them.
But when she was in that venue, I thought it was going to flip over. That was one of the best shows I've seen in a very long time.
Absolutely. It was so good.
Yeah. So well, I loved the two of them flipping on and off.
I haven't seen a show like that before.

That needs to happen

more often.

I think so too.

Not since Justified Stripped.

Or the then scrapped

Kanye Gaga tour.

Oh, wow.

2009.

It's crazy to think

about that as a reality.

It was going to happen

and then it got canceled

after the VMAs

after I'm going to let you finish.

Something split

in the fabric of culture

at that night.

We were just talking about that.

That was so consequential for like all of pop culture history that night. That was wild.
Wait, you did Tokyo for the last tour? Yes, I did. Tell me everything.
What did you think? We just went to Tokyo for the first time. We ate so much steak.
I turned into a grain of rice. I ate so much rice.
I love rice. We had like The best time ever Tokyo is one of my favorite places It's magical It's crazy We played with pigs Yes you went to a micro pig cafe That was like number one Yeah they're macro pigs.
They're macro pigs. They're macro pigs? That sounds horrifying.
There's like a street in Harajuku. I don't know if this is the one you went on, but there's like multiple places in Tokyo where it's like the puppy cafe.
No problem. The kitten cafe.
No problem. Yeah.
The new animal is the micro pigs. Yes.
And then the even newer one is otter cafe.

Yeah, those are crazy.

Those are crazy.

Yeah.

It's a cafe with otters.

You eat, you pay, you like order some food, you eat, you sip your tea and then they run around and they come up to you.

Yeah, and they like sit in your lap.

Okay.

Yeah.

This is too precious.

No, it was perfect.

And then they all stack on top of each other.

So there's like eight in your lap at once. So what animal are you? You can't say micro pig.
Because I'll fight you. I don't know if I'd...
It's fine. Yours is a micro pig? No.
I'm so not a micro pig. What do you think yours is? What are your guys' is? People that wanted to really drag me to hell would be like, I'm some sort of reptile.
Okay. But I don't think I am.
I don't really see that. I would like to be some sort

of crazy bird.

Okay. I can see that.

You can? Yeah. Why are you laughing?

I'm not laughing. I'm just like picturing it.

I feel like I'm a bird. I feel like

definitely giving

ostrich.

They don't even fly, bitch.

I was going to say eagle.

I don't think you're an ostrich. I was going to say falcon.

I'm a falcon.

So with that, what are you?

I might be a pig.

I might be a pig of some kind.

I don't know.

I feel like you're more of a koala or something.

Oh, that's so nice.

I'll take koala.

Chlamydia down.

Yeah.

I'll be koala.

I feel like I would be a... Hmm.
Don't look at him. I feel like you're...
I want to be a cheetah, but I'm not a cheetah. You are so a cheetah.
You don't think you're a cheetah? I don't think I'm that fast. It's not about speed.
It's just about the demeanor. Right.
You have a cheetah energy. Really? Yeah.
Like when you're on stage, that's who that girl becomes. Tatiana is a cheetah.
She's a leopard. I could be more of like a rhino or something.
Rhino? Have some respect for yourself. I feel like they're like...
I think we're asking her what she thinks she is. No! You're you're a cheetah it's Tate and Tatiana together we're a cheetah because a cheetah writes too just a little slower maybe mountain lion I like that mountain lion is good stands above, sees the world for what it is yeah okay do you call her Tati sometimes or is it full on Tatiana? I call her Tatiana.
Yeah, don't say Tati to her. Yeah.
Tatiana will fuck you up. Yeah, she will.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.
It's okay. Was Tatiana getting arrested or was that Tate? That was Tatiana for sure.
Tatiana's just across the room. You would never get arrested.
No. What are your crimes that you've committed? I've actually never committed a crime.
Never? I'm a big goody two shoes. Really? Yeah, I don't.
I really do not cause any trouble, I will say. That's good.
Disney Channel vibes. Yeah.
Like, I'm one of those good kids. I am good.
I'm pretty wholesome. Team, is this true? Yeah.
Okay. Yeah, I'm pretty goody two-shoes.
So, like, that arrest scene was funny. My parents were on set, too.
Oh, they were? Was it getting a pasty vibe? I don't know. It wasn't even naked.
It was a two-time. Okay, yeah.
Let me say this. Set the record straight.
This, like, the editing was so good that it looked like I was super naked. I was in, like, full-on, like, a workout set.
Just beige. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I was sitting there, and I'm just doing my acting yeah like whatever so it wasn't even that intense and so my parents were like woo yeah so they were like we're so down we're so down that's Tatiana out there getting topless arrested this is pop my dad was like yes like they were just like this is really cool and then the editing came it looked so realistic. It was giving Girls Gone Wild.
It was giving like, whoa, like they did too good. Sure.
They did too good. And the final edit wasn't until like two days before.
Oh, wow. So we had been all the edits.
Everyone was like, oh, this is great. It was like beige.
And the final edit was like so realistic. So real.
That all of us were kind of numb to it. So when I was like, when the internet became like shocked, I was like, oh, like, I didn't really like think too hard about this.
Are you? But the internet will always think too hard. Of course.
That's their job. So that was, that was funny because it wasn't actually like, it wasn't that like naked on set.
Shit. I'm sorry that I said tits out earlier.
It's okay.

It was disrespectful.

I'm apologizing all throughout this episode.

I didn't take any offense to it.

Okay.

No, she was cool as a cucumber.

Cool as a cucumber.

I have a question.

How long does choreo live in you?

Like, do you need to be refreshed?

How much do you need to be refreshed?

Okay, so I can pick up pretty fast, I would say.

Like, I can learn it right before,

memorize it and perform it.

Like, for when we premiered,

it's okay, I'm okay.

Thank you. So I can pick up pretty fast.
I would say like I can learn it right before memorize it and perform it. Like, like for when we premiered, it's okay.
I'm okay. Like we learned it the day before.
Wow. And then did it.
Once I do the performance, it's out of my head. Like, I don't remember unless we rehearse it for weeks and then it like stick.
Cause something else has to go up in the brain. Yeah.
I have like no memories. So for sure, like I was was going to ask if you have a favorite dance break of all time.
Like if you have a favorite pop music dance break. Of all time? Like what's one that you're like that she or he shredded that? I need to think.
I know because now it's going to, that's the thing. It's like whatever you say is going to have weight because now you're the queen of the dance break.
That's a hard question. And to think on that for a second.
Yeah, no, think on it. Because that's a big one.
That is a big one. Because you know what jumps to mind for me? What? This isn't probably it, but I think one that, because it was so dance contest, me, the little gay boy, and my girlfriend's culture, Janet Jackson, All For You.
Oh, yeah. Janet Jackson, All For You, like that was a song that probably was a hit primarily because of groups of little girls and gay boys doing dance contests.
From when she's in the train station. Now, that's what I call music.
I don't know. Let's call it four.
Yeah. Like, just track one.
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. That was a deep, deep one.
I'm going to agree with my sister. Yeah.
Right. Yeah.
That's a huge one. Yeah.
Still thinking. I'm still thinking.
No. It's a commitment when she says it.
It is a big commitment. I know.
That's a huge one yeah I'm still thinking it's a commitment it is a big commitment I know that's a huge I mean I would say like single ladies by Beyonce like I just think that that was big for me did you learn it immediately I don't think I did yeah but I just remember watching it a lot okay but I'm saying like for, like I was this close to trying to learn the dance break for two hands. Okay.
Because I was trying to do like the... Uh-huh.
Like... Okay.
But like you're literally like upside down like across the wind. Wait, do it again.
I don't know what move you're referring to. I'm 12 shit.
Wow. She didn't even know what you were referring to.
I didn't do that. She's like, I never fucking...
Because you went like went like this. Well, she, I'm like, which is kind of cool.
When you sing the word to. I'm trying to remember the choreo.
I want you to. Wow, I can't believe we're watching this.
Wow, oh my God, this is cool. This one? Yes! Wait, do that.
Do that, do that again. Yes! That's a dancer's hand.
It's like the The hand wave And then you like Drive the car Yes I'm obsessed Because it's like It's hand It's giving car It is It's like giving like Hip wave and then car So what would happen if Would you be proud of us If let's say We did the two hands choreo. Yes.

Yes.

We're going to do it. We might do it.

You should.

I'm going to tell you my idea for later.

Okay.

Okay.

Maybe you can even be involved.

Okay.

You'll be on tour.

You'll be on tour.

Okay.

When is tour until for now?

Anybody send?

They laugh.

The team laughs because it's going for four years.

October.

October. October.

Because you want to have a Halloween.

Of course I want to have a Halloween.

So November

because we just announced new dates.

Wow.

Congratulations.

And that's why I said for now.

For now.

Because I knew y'all

had a trick up your sleeve.

We knew the team was going to push it.

Yeah.

So now it's November

and I don't get a Halloween. No.
That stinks. You'll get a Christmas.
I'll get a Christmas. You need to spend Halloween in New York and then you're going to sell your house and be like, I never want to live here.
Why? No, you're going to be so obsessed. By the time you get to like actually, well, you spend time in New York.
You've been home and you got to like acclimated and make it your home. I actually haven't moved in yet put the offer in like two days ago congrats oh nice so it's gonna happen I hope so yeah sometimes they pull out no yeah it's a whole thing New York real estate is it's intense gnarly and nasty but when you finally finish tour in November like then you're gonna move and I think that November, December actually actually, actually, September, October, November, December, that the fall months, thank you, is the best time to be in New York.
Yes, I think so, too. I think I'm going to really enjoy it there.
And then in the next year in New York. And you do have a place here, too.
Yes. You got it.
Yeah, you got it. I got it.
Favorite dance break of all time. Wait, didn't I say single ladies? Oh, fine.
Yes, yes, yes. Okay.
Didn't I answer this far enough question that's going to cause me to get dragged online because now I didn't say these other girls? Yeah, exactly. Hello.
Can't win in this town. I didn't realize that that's what we were putting you through.
That was a very Bowen response. Cancer vibes.
Cancer vibes. Well, I think...
Your hand in this award right now? I know. Can you believe? Well, okay.
So we're going to do... This episode's winning a Webby.
This episode is winning a Webby, by the way. We're going to do the choreo of two hands.
Where? We'll tell you later. Okay.
You know, I'm not too brag. There might be eyes on it.
There's going to be eyes on it. We're just saying we hope we don't disappoint you.
Do you need some help like how to learn it? Are you going to teach us? Yeah, I can help. If you're going to, if it's like...
We should learn from you. Excuse you.
This is so ambiguous. We'll be in touch.
We just told Tate the idea and we had to skip past it and cut that out. And she approves.
I approve. Yeah, it's going to be good.
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She gets the courage and support to go on this sex quest from her best friend, Nikki, who stays by her side through it all. FX's Dying for Sex, all episodes streaming April 4th on Hulu.
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Code Culturistas. Okay, well, this has been, you know, very sweet time, but now we have to get a little nasty and dirty with I don't think so, honey.
That's right. This is I don't think so, honey.
This is our segment where we each take one minute to rail against something in culture. Matt, do you have something? You know what? I do have something.
It's time. Is it in culture or it can just be in life? It can be anything.
Mine is very much in life. I'm not doing I don't think so, honey.
Mine's going to be in life too. We'll all do life.
I don't think so, honey. This is Matt Rogers' I don't think so, honey.
Time starts now. I don't think so, honey, man bun.
I still see some of you doing it. And can I say, it it's, it was never it, right? It was never it.
The tiny little man bun was never it. And I'm looking around.
I don't think I see anyone here that's giving a man bun. I see potential on a couple of people.
I see potential hair length where you could give that as someone who is starting to wade into the might grow my hair out community, I have a buzz right now for people that are only listening.

I may grow my hair out.

I'm committed to no little bun because I'm going to show you a video of me with long hair and it actually looks good.

I put a wig on.

Okay.

If you're going to grow your hair out, just give it a style.

Give it something.

Just the tossing it up into a messy bun.

You are not iconic girls from my high school. You're not.
The only way you can toss your hair up into a messy bun, you are not iconic girls from my high school. You're not.

Like the only way you can toss your hair up

into a messy bun and come out and have it be slay

is if you are an iconic girl from my high school.

You know what I'm saying?

These girls that came in like the sweatpants

with the top rolled down on the slides

and the messy bun and lacrosse sweatshirt,

only you with the messy bun.

Everyone else, especially you gentlemen,

it's got to stop.

That's one minute.

Okay.

That's where I'm at on that.

And you know what has really pushed me over the edge?

I don't know. only you with the messy bun.
Everyone else, especially you gentlemen, it's got to stop. That's one minute.
Okay. That's where I'm at on that.
And you know what

has really pushed me over the edge?

You know the old photos of Justin

Baldoni? I don't.

Like when he had the hair up in the bun. When he was in Jane the Virgin.

When he was in Jane the Virgin, yes.

What do you even know about pop culture?

When he would serve a bun, I was like, see,

I can't believe we ever did this.

And you are

thinking about growing your hair out? I'm thinking about growing my

hair out. I'm just saying, if it ever gets to the point where you see me and I have long hair, and I'm like, you know what, guys? Hold on a second.
And you see me toss it up into a bun, please stop me and remind me of this. Play the clip.
I like your hair right now. I think it's cute.
You like your buzz? Yeah, it looks really good. Thank you.
It complements your skull shape. It does.
Do I have a good skull shape? You have a really good skull shape. Great bone structure.
That's what you wish for. That's hard because a lot of people don't have a naturally good skull shape.
Could you buzz? No. I don't think so.
Well, you have great hair. Why would you? I don't think I could buzz.
No. I feel like I have a strange head shape.
Did you get tummy time as a child? Yeah, you must have gotten it. What's tummy time? Tummy time is when you're a baby,

they flip you over on your tummy so that you're not lying on the back of your head the whole time.

Oh, I didn't get any of that.

Oh, I don't know.

I feel like they must have forgot.

Mine was a little flat.

Give me tummy time.

I have a little bit of a flat head too.

Want to tell you about that?

You know what's a tip for babies is

my mom says that your hips form before you're two years old.

So if you stretch your baby's hips before you're two years old, she did this to me. She would stretch my splits before I was two.
Wow. And so my hips are naturally open because she formed my hips that way.
Whoa. So that's a trick.
If you want to have it. So you got it from your mama.
I did get it from my mama. You got it from your mom.
Put me on the clock. I've got something.
Okay. wow, wait, hold on.
He's about to go against his mother. I know this.
He's about to drag. Okay, wait, hold on.
Okay, this is Bowen. Why don't I have my thing? This is Bowen Yangs.
I don't think so, honey. His time starts now.
I don't think so, honey. Not my mom, but just the hip architecture in human beings in general.
Did you know we have our hip flexors go from back to front and we have side to side going across the pelvis. It's crazy.
I think it's where I'm going to go. It's how I'm going to die.
Something's going to happen to me in the hips. I'm trying to use them in dance settings and maybe a sexual setting.
Maybe, I'm not executing the way I want to execute on the hips. I've been doing the same split stretch routine for the past two years.
I'm no closer to getting into the splits. My mom should have done this, what your mom did.
What Tatiana's mom did. And I can't believe I, I can't believe I listen it's it's like the one childhood school trauma that stays with me is your hips all these girls and boys were doing the splits in front of me and I was like I want to do that and I still after a lifetime of stretching can't that's one minute can't do the splits that's that's really I can't do it either well I guess you can't answer how you got to do it because your mom kind of did the work for you.
Uh-huh. That's amazing.
But then I... You just stretch.
I did really like gymnastics when I was younger, too. I was going to say...
So they would take your first leg on a chair, your back leg on a chair, and they'd sit on your knees. No.
That's crazy. And you'd just be sobbing for like...
Just like, why is this happening? And they're like like So you can one day Become the queen of the dance break Literally This is for your own good Tate McRae Maybe that hole of pain is from that Is from that From Miss Thing sitting on you So you were that girl who could just whip out a cartwheel Yeah I was so jealous of you growing up I was that bitch You were that bitch You were that girl who could just whip out a cartwheel. Yeah.
Oh, 100%. I was so jealous of you growing up.

I was that bitch.

Yeah, you were that bitch.

You were like, Tate's flipping in the back.

Yeah.

You were always upside down.

Yeah.

Well, for Greedy, you literally shot your leg up, like a full 180, like straight line up and down.

And I was like, how do you do this?

Right.

It's that.

It's that.

After you slay so hard, do you just laugh?

Because you're like, did it again.

Is that a weird question?

I wish it was that easy.

Why'd you do the guitar?

All I'm saying is,

if I was you and I just tore it up.

Could you imagine me just like.

Yes.

That's what we're saying.

If I was you and I just came out,

I was like,

do it so many.

And just like eight. I would be like, whatever.
I'm like, I'm that bitch. Maybe that's what I should start doing.
You have a very high degree of that girl ability. Thank you.
Yeah, that's a word I made up. A little giggle at the end.
That girl-able. That girl-able.
All your music videos are very that girl-able. Thank you.
All the songs have a high degree of that girl-ability. Speaking of hair, I think you should consider like the long black middle part like you have in Sports Car.
Really? That looked incredible. Really? Yes.
I think it made my face look a little long. Wasn't thinking that.
No one was thinking that. That's the voice in your head.
That's the voice in my head. I felt like I needed like a layer or something.
We didn't have enough time to cut a layer though. Really? That would look perfect because that was you next to the horse.
Yep. That horse looked scary.
He was super nice actually. He was really cute and sweet.
You're a horse girl. I'm allergic to horses but I do love them.
I love that interaction. You're a horse girl.
I'm allergic allergic to horses But I do love them I just can't help but feel like I always When I was little My sister did gymnastics And so all of her friends did gymnastics And they were flipping, turning, screaming through the skies I was just like why can't I move It's because my mom didn't sit on my hips. Which is not what, I don't think that's what you did.
So you did rhythmic gymnastics, not like competitive gymnastics. With a ribbon and...
I had a ball routine. Yes.
Where you like put the ball in between your back and you'd like, you'd like literally like do a somersault with it. Yeah.
Do you ever think about like, who thought of that? Who thought to do that? I have no idea. And I also have, don't understand the reason for it.
Like, I don't understand why I trained that hard to like fit a ball between my back and do a somersault. It's crazy.
Can we for a second think about every gymnastics event? It's all insane. Uneven bars.
it's like, what? It's like someone one day was like,

you know what it's going to be?

Girls are going to run

as fast as they can

towards a brick.

They're going to fly off the brick

hands first,

flip in the air

and land on their feet

and if they don't,

it's flop.

It is,

but it's such an interesting thing

because it's the same with dance.

Like,

I did a music video yesterday.

I'm like, I am literally dying for dance right now and then dance. Category is dance or die.
I'm just exhausted, bruised, literally killing myself just for a dance break. That is such a weird concept.
One day shoot? Yep. Well, that's...
You got to knock it down. Yeah, I have bruises everywhere.
Yeah. I can't believe you came here.
Yeah. What you didn't see is she had to drag herself to the seat.
I did. And we didn't help.
We sat here. We were like...
Yeah, it was cold. Cold as hell.
Okay. It is your opportunity and time to do it.
I don't think so, honey. Okay.
And I can tell that you're going to tear. Okay.
Okay. This is Tate McRae's I don't think so, honey.
Her time starts now.

Okay, so I'm only doing this because my mom just came

into town and

it's just a frustration I've had

with CarPlay in my

car.

So it's a little finicky

like the USB and the Bluetooth

switches on and off a little bit, but then I get to a point where it's pretty consistent and yeah i walk in it clicks whatever my parents come into town and every single phone hooks up all of a sudden and they're like i'm like guys turn off your bluetooth and they have no idea how to turn off the bluetooth 30 seconds so it's just like swipes i'm like mom dad i like grab their phones and like it is the most frustrating. Speak on it.
And I'm just like, why does the car have to click to their phones? They don't live here. This isn't their car.
Why is it connecting to this? 15. And it's just really hard because I feel like I lose ownership of my car when they come into town.
Because I can't listen to my music. I can't.
My navigation is off. And it's just really frustrating.
And that's one minute. Say, I don't think so, honey.
I don't think so, honey. There we go.
CarPlay. Now it's officially etched in time.
Now it's etched in time. CarPlay should know that it's a dad phone or a mom phone.
It also should just be better. I don't understand why it's not better.
No, it's going to kill us. CarPlay is going to kill us.
Because when it starts to act up and you're driving and you kind of can't stop yourself from being like, my turn isn't. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, for me, it's like I need music to be playing in the car.
Like I'm not not and maybe a podcast, but usually no, usually music. And when and for to say nothing of directions.
Yeah. Which is also a thing with CarPlay.
It's like you cut off my music and directions. Why am I the car to begin with yeah exactly and now i'm on the road like uh hello doing surgery like on my car and i'm like this was supposed to be easier yeah it's not like everything they say that makes things easier that's why i don't trust the self-driving cars i'm like no thanks no that's scary like that is really scary it's crazy every time they have made an in cars, I'm like, I feel as though we can go back to basics.
I think so too. Are you doing Google Maps or Apple Maps? Apple Maps.
Don't say that. Why are you guys Google Maps? No, no, we're not.
You're so sweet about that. Why are you guys Google Maps? No, I'm Google Maps, but I just feel like Apple Maps is so tough.
I think the complete opposite. Sometimes Apple Maps is really, really good.
I think it's just a cleaner layout. I think that it's just less clunky.
You have to zoom in on Google Maps. Apple Maps is just automatic.
You know what came and went? Waze. It's still going strong I think people still use it Waze is still Waze is still out there we just lost a huge Waze sponsorship big chunk of the podcast just turned it off and we were struggling so they're gonna ask for our Webby back damn it we needed that here take our Webby back okay do you want Sure.
Tate McRae accepts this Webby on our behalf.

Thank you.

You know, if you flick it, it springs.

Look, do that.

Doesn't it feel kind of good to put your hand in it?

See?

Like this?

Is that what you're trying to do?

He's like, doesn't it feel kind of good to put your hand in it?

To justify that he was doing it.

It does feel good.

It feels great.

It's a bracelet, but not really.

Yeah, exactly.

Exactly.

This has been such a nice time getting to know you.

You're fucking cool as hell. Thank you.
You're so talented. Thanks, guys.
And. This has been such a nice time getting to know you.
You're fucking cool as hell.

Thank you.

You're so talented.

Thanks, guys.

And we're going to come see you.

Please.

Can we?

With love.

We want to come see you at MSG.

Please come.

Yes.

That would be so fun.

And maybe even by then we'll have the two hands choreo down.

I think we will.

I'm going to do that.

You'll see us in the crowd, like, literally hurting everyone around us.

I think that's going to... We're going to start up the TikTok trend.
Okay. We're going to do it.
Perfect. Has there not been a TikTok trend since it started at this point? I think there is for that dance.
Probably. Do you dictate what the trend is? I don't think you really can.
You can do like just post stuff. Yeah.
And if it trends it trends. Because Because it wasn't...
Wasn't Charlie... Someone else made the apple dance.
Someone else did the apple dance. Yeah.
That was good. That was so good.
That was good. That's what you want.
I mean, we'll be that girl for you. Yeah, that's what you want.
That's what you want. To have someone else create the apple dance.
This is a marketing meeting now. Yes.
The team's all here. Yeah.
Well, so close to what is out right now. Listen to it.
Have some fun for once in your life. Yeah.
Fucking go listen to Flo Millie. Spit bars.
Have a glass of wine. Listen to the album.
Yes. Sit back.
Is that your optimal vibe for it? Like have a glass of wine. I think so.
Yeah. And like a chill.
Yeah. Don't think too hard.
I that's the next album don't think too hard think harder think later think later don't think too hard they're like we're getting mixed messaging from Tate yeah just completely contradicting myself every album okay we end every episode with a song I guess the apple sounds like we already We already messed up. It's this.

You started it.

N1.

That's the best part of the name.

I do love the N1.

So that's for you to do at home.

Bye.

Bye. Las Culturistas is a production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeartRadio podcasts.
Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Executive produced by Anna Hosnier and produced by Becca Ramos.
Edited and mixed by Duck Bame and Monique Laborde. And our music is by Henry Kaperski.
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