Episode 595: The Krugersdorp Cult Murders Part II - Me, Myself, The Werewolf, and I

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Speaker 2 There's no place to escape to. This is the last time.

Speaker 2 On the left.

Speaker 2 That's when the cannibalism started.

Speaker 2 What was that?

Speaker 2 Are you guys ready?

Speaker 2 Yeah, ma'am. My whole life.
Okay, you guys have known me for a while. Eddie, you've known me for more than half of my life.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Marcus, you and I have been working together for probably close to 15 years. I remember you were just a sad, scared little piece of shit.

Speaker 2 I still am, though. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I still am, man. Technically, he's littler than he was then.
Yes. Yeah.
By then, I was more expansive. And you were weaker, though.
I was, and I was more open to other cultures. Yes, you were.

Speaker 2 In fact,

Speaker 2 exploitive, maybe. No, no, celebratory.
I'm celebratory of the African-American community.

Speaker 2 I just want to ask you both, how long and what will it take for you both? Like, let's say I were to come forward emotionally and tell you both,

Speaker 2 guys,

Speaker 2 I love you. I don't know how to say this, but I'm a werewolf.

Speaker 2 I transform against my will. I'm a huge bitch when I do.

Speaker 2 You don't want to be anywhere near my teeth when they explode out of me. Like, honestly, if I were to come to you emotionally and explain to you that I'm a werewolf.
Yeah. What's the procedure?

Speaker 2 The procedure, I mean, well, you go to the first full moon and

Speaker 2 but I tell you, the problem is, is that if you come anywhere near me during the full moon, I will kill you both.

Speaker 2 And if we just put you in a cage. I transform.
I'm actually shapeshifting and I can travel through walls. You can do all that? Yeah.
I'm the most powerful witch in northern Los Angeles.

Speaker 2 Aha, just caught you in a lie because a male witch is a warlock. But hey,

Speaker 2 unless you have tits like me. Because I have...
You got witch tits. I have witch's breasts.
Yeah. That is true.
You do have an old witch's breast.

Speaker 2 I have exactly the same body as the lady who played the wicked witch. Yeah.
In

Speaker 2 Henry has witch tits.

Speaker 2 You have the same body as the witch in The Witch.

Speaker 2 It's very similar.

Speaker 2 But seriously, what's the procedure? How long, what would it take for you to believe I'm a werewolf? You have witch tits because I can't figure out which one is bigger.

Speaker 2 It's the right. Welcome to the last podcast on the left, ladies and gentlemen.
My name is Marcus Parks. My answer is the second your sister convinces me you're a werewolf, then I'll believe it.

Speaker 2 You don't think she's not going to hop on with all of her improv training? She's going to immediately understand that if I'm telling people that I'm a werewolf, that there's not a grift is afoot.

Speaker 2 Better join in or you're on the other side of it.

Speaker 2 I probably would just ignore it because I know it wasn't true. And, you know, just like I do whenever you talk about aliens.

Speaker 2 I come to you. I'm emotional.
I'm explaining to you that this has destroyed my life. I'm such a powerful witch.
I can't be hidden. Everybody's trying to attack me.

Speaker 2 And the worst part of all is my period makes me attack people with Wilven teeth.

Speaker 2 What do you do? I asked you when you started having a period. Oh, buddy, it was when I was 13 years old.

Speaker 2 Man, oh man,

Speaker 2 the mess and the surprise. I'm pretty sure penis periods are cancer.
Yes, that's what they came to say. And with me is the heavy flow, Henry Zabrowski.
I need five paper towel rules just to jam it up.

Speaker 2 But I wonder if there is a way to, because what people don't talk about in this case, and I think of excuse me, and the skeptical Ed Larson. Hey, I don't believe anything.

Speaker 2 He physically cannot believe a single thing.

Speaker 2 I think that the reason why they have cut out the majority of the werewolf lore within this story is because there was... Who is they?

Speaker 2 I literally do mean the major media and the people who wrote about this story they cut out a lot i mean a lot of the werewolf content because they felt that people maybe wouldn't take it seriously yeah and it's hard because it really is the center of the beginnings of this cult is all on werewolf shit yeah and nobody questions a thing

Speaker 2 the werewolf nobody in the cult questions a thing no in the cult the werewolf stuff was the base. Yeah.
And then it went from there. What do you do then?

Speaker 2 Well, let's get into the cult itself. Let's really get into this fucking business and how Cecilia Stain came to control these fucking people by telling them that she was a fucking werewolf.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think I wouldn't do anything as long as you were still funny. Okay.
That's it. So as long as it does not hurt work.
Yeah. Then I can continue to be a werewolf or believe I'm a werewolf.

Speaker 2 But you're not going to come over and try to do anything about it.

Speaker 2 You're not going to call Transylvania. As long as you show up on time and can still have production calls, we're fine.
Unbelievable.

Speaker 2 Unbelievable.

Speaker 2 So, when we last left Cecilia Stain, eventual leader of the murderous Electus Perdeus cult, she had successfully infiltrated a fundamentalist Christian organization called Overcomers Through Christ.

Speaker 2 That's overcomers.

Speaker 2 Stop it, stop.

Speaker 2 Stop! It's Dumar! It's just Dumar!

Speaker 2 It's like the guy who came, who comes, he can't sell from coming, and then he came at his father's funeral and he was like, you never know the devastation of having four orgasms in front of your father's dead body.

Speaker 2 Overcomers your craig.

Speaker 2 Well, Cecilia Stain had infiltrated them by telling them that she was a 42nd generation satanic witch who had just escaped the satanic church and she needed their help using cheap parlor tricks, a deep backstory, and a manufactured cast of characters who sent text messages to overcomers from burner phones, Cecilia was able to convince the overcomers through Christ that the Satanists were always on the precipice of coming to get both her and them.

Speaker 2 And the overcomers were the only people who could save Cecilia. Always.
Now, I, again, in another life, and if this didn't turn into 11 murders, this is the dream. Yeah, right.
For a lot of Satanists.

Speaker 2 Well, that's the thing, is that who knows how many times this has happened without any murderers occurring? Oh, I think this

Speaker 2 many times.

Speaker 2 No exaggeration. Because we have to remember, let's set the tone again for this cult, is that if you were coming to Overcomers Through Christ, again, you have a huge urethra.

Speaker 2 And also remember that Overcomers Through Christ is not the cult. No.
It's not like that is. It's the cult she subsidized.
It's the cult she stole from. She sucked the teeth from.

Speaker 2 But even then, I don't know if I would call overcomers a cult themselves.

Speaker 2 Well, they're more like they're, yeah they're more of like a really intense prayer group the only way i think i could kind of sum it up is that this group was a lot of cult leaders create the problem and the solution on their own and the problem the people with problems go to the cult leader looking for solutions.

Speaker 2 Like, so a lot of times a cult leader posts up either legitimately, you know, like Charles Manson or legitimately like Jim Jones. They kind of have some standing in society in that way.

Speaker 2 And people come to them. And that's how they get bought into the cult.
Because Charles Manson, he used the context of the times. Jim Jones integrated Indiana.
He did all these incredible things.

Speaker 2 And then by this point, sunk in fallacy. You're now hanging out with a guy who's going to kill everybody.
But in this cult, this is a cult led by gravity.

Speaker 2 This woman went straight to where the idiots were. So she went to overcomers through Christ.
These people already believed that they had the not only the

Speaker 2 choice, they were chosen by God, but they also have the ability to funnel God's empathy through themselves, through their, their weird little bodies, into Satanists to cure them.

Speaker 2 Like, if you believe already that you can go save people,

Speaker 2 you're fucking just waiting to be scooped up. You're waiting to get scooped.

Speaker 2 And that's also important. You say, like, channel.
It's important to know, like, these people believe they have. magical powers.
There's nothing more magical than a Christian. Yeah.

Speaker 2 They really do believe that they are, they, they, they harness this ability. So it's so easy to kind of convince them that you're a werewolf.
Well, every Sunday they drink blood.

Speaker 2 I know, Wolf, if you're Catholic. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, if you're a Methodist, grape juice.

Speaker 2 Now, at first, I think that Cecilia was just getting attention out of this deal. But the Overcomers were getting something, too.

Speaker 2 She had a whole group of people believing that she was important and in danger. That's what she got.
Oh, yeah. What are witch hunters without witches? Yeah.

Speaker 2 And in return, the group got to cosplay as Christian soldiers battling the devil. Although they didn't know they were cosplaying.
Because they're stupid.

Speaker 2 And they don't understand that it's just as witchy what they were doing. Yeah.
And they never actually saw any Satanists. Never.
You ever heard of it?

Speaker 2 Well, no, that's the thing. Oh, they were surrounded by

Speaker 2 seeing. They have Cecilia.
Yeah. Like, there's one that's sitting right in front of them that's telling them everything that they ever suspected about the world was true.

Speaker 2 And Cecilia not have trusted her because she's a Satanist.

Speaker 2 Hey.

Speaker 2 It is very interesting. And there's the crux.
But I feel like every one of these groups turned into this. Has your mom ever done this? My mom joined a Reiki group for a while.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, my mom joined the fucking Reiki group in Jayton, Texas.

Speaker 2 You joke. You joke.
This is where they are. This is fucking, I'm talking about Podunk, Trumpville, Count like Florida, right?

Speaker 2 My mom goes to this Reiki, and the way she talks about it, she's like, well, you know, Henry Thomas, the grandmaster, told me that I had special powers and that I was the best student he'd ever met.

Speaker 2 And me and him are doing private lessons.

Speaker 2 I'm seeing, like, you know, red flags waving back and forth. But I'm just trying not to get involved.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 But then it turns into, you know, like, you know, what they said, Henry Thomas, that they're one of us is a, they is sort of, they're not an antichrist, but it's like an anti-reiki sort of angel demon, right?

Speaker 2 And her name's Beth, and she's in the group and she's just, we all, none of us trust her. And it was like a whole thing.
It turned into this thing with her and the Reiki master.

Speaker 2 We're going to flip this woman.

Speaker 2 This is just, you know, a conference room at a public library until the whole group fell apart about them unable to equally divvy up the what they all spent at an Airbnb when they went on a trip out of town.

Speaker 2 I mean this. That's what destroyed the Reiki group.
From destroying, like literally, the Reiki group was fighting evil on Wednesday.

Speaker 2 On Friday, they're all like, well, I had two pieces of this pepperoni pizza. And so that I saw

Speaker 2 Marie Beth that five. I saw what she did.
She was sneaking and cutting them into little pieces, but she was eating more than everybody else. You know what's crazy?

Speaker 2 They're in a library conference room and they're speaking all this nonsense, surrounded by information.

Speaker 2 All the knowledge you need is right there. But it's like, I honestly think six more weeks, my mom could have killed 10, 12 people.

Speaker 2 But once Cecilia cemented her place within Overcomers Through Christ as a person in need, she opened up a second front. She started scamming them out of their money.

Speaker 2 Now Ria Grunwald, the leader of Overcomers Through Christ, and Candace Ryavis, also a member and Cecilia's supposed girlfriend at the time, they both believed that Cecilia was in a constant state of decay due to continuous spiritual attacks launched by her former satanic coven.

Speaker 2 See, a fair amount of Overcomers Through Christ had witnessed Cecilia during one of the so-called satanic high nights, in which Cecilia would spit blood because witches were attacking her organs from afar.

Speaker 2 So they'd ostensibly seen quote-unquote proof that Cecilia was deteriorating. But if you'll remember, this was just a cheap trick involving blood and the fingers from a latex glove.

Speaker 2 But as far as the overcomers were concerned, Cecilia's body was rotting from the inside out due to these frequent satanic attacks. It definitely wasn't the menthols.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And the cocaine.
Yeah, and the drinking. A lot of cocaine.
Yeah. A lot of drinking.
Whatever she can get her hands on, it seems like. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Now, the only physical malady Cecilia ever had was mild asthma. Cocaine really helps with that.
Because it's all about having the confidence to not want to have asthma anymore. Yeah, it is.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the menthols really help with that too. All the glass and the filter.
She pours the asthma out of it.

Speaker 2 But she convinced the overcomers that she also had leukemia, infections in her heart and lungs, immune deficiency syndrome, high blood pressure, chronic bronchitis, epilepsy, panic attacks, and a chronic stomach ulcer.

Speaker 2 And I'm also a slow reader.

Speaker 2 It's been a month.

Speaker 2 When any of these conditions presented manufactured symptoms like loss of breath, convulsions, hyperventilating, or vomiting blood, that was her favorite trick, Candace and/or Rhea would race Cecilia to the hospital and pay for her treatment, which only added to the constant sense of urgency surrounding their former Satanist.

Speaker 2 And that's an important thing to remember about Cecilia. Everything is urgent all the time.
Well, that's how she keeps the pace of the mini-mini cult.

Speaker 2 Now, we're right now this is this is the training time yeah this is still her figuring out and the testing time and the testing time she works on each one of these individuals around her to the to their specific needs and wants for their relationship with her it's very interesting candace was slowly groomed by cecilia during this time period cecilia would make candace buy two of the same pieces of clothing whenever she bought clothing so that they could dress identical.

Speaker 2 So they would dress identical at all times.

Speaker 2 Cecilia would even get angry when she didn't dress identical to the point where they had to call each other in the morning and figure out what each one was going to wear.

Speaker 2 And so Cecilia was super into the,

Speaker 2 how do you say it, lady whose baby is asleep on the counter of a Burger King. Like, she is that style of dress.
Crown of front hair.

Speaker 2 Black. I want to say something along the lines of either, what's a good old-fashioned Florida, like a.
I'm going to go ahead and say a black polo shirt. Black polo shirt or

Speaker 2 like a sevenfold, eventually sevenfold shirt. Like a lot of that, like that style of sort of like, what's that type of metal? New metal.
New metal. Definitely a new metal vibe.
Big pants.

Speaker 2 And then Cecilia, very, very big pants. And it was this thing.

Speaker 2 They constantly had to, like, she didn't like accoutrements. Oh, okay.
She liked keeping things simple. But this was the beginning of it.

Speaker 2 She also made them nicknames where Cecilia would be called Pookie and Candace's nickname would be Pookie. No.

Speaker 2 Close. Close.
Very close. It's just like one of those things where it's, you know, every time it's this bunch of, it's a series of arbitrary lies and arguments.
Yeah. That

Speaker 2 every time I get annoyed, I just remember this ends in 11 murders. Yo, yeah, buddy.
That's the craziest thing of all this stupid bullshit.

Speaker 2 It's a group of annoying, stupid people that go on to make a lot of mayhem. It's our favorite kind.
Yep. Well, Cecilia even got a prop.

Speaker 2 She started carrying around an oxygen tank and she insisted she needed to have it with her at all times, otherwise, she'd die.

Speaker 2 But because of her manufactured health problems, Cecilia would tell Candace or Rhea that she had a mountain of medical bills.

Speaker 2 As a result, Candace would eventually give Cecilia $6,000 per month to pay these bills. Cecilia, however, always insisted that Candace give her the cash directly.
Yes, of course. Yes.

Speaker 2 You had to because of the bank accounts. They're traceable markets.
The sages are going to find the bank accounts. You know how sages are at the bank? You've seen me at the bank.

Speaker 2 Well, this made sure that Candace or Rhea never came into contact with the people who were supposedly treating Cecilia. Cecilia also insisted that she be the one to buy all of her prescription drugs.

Speaker 2 I know the good ones. I know them by taste.

Speaker 2 Masally, nasally. Oh, wow.
I love the taste of this one.

Speaker 2 But that was because she was buying them recreationally and illegally through a contact at her local pharmacy.

Speaker 2 But what's insane about all this is that Rhea and Candace chose to ignore the lavish purchases Cecilia was making.

Speaker 2 She bought a couple of four-wheelers, bought a PlayStation 3, and a healthy library of games. Can I ask, what is

Speaker 2 the thing with cult leaders and four-wheelers? Four-wheelers, Dune Buggies, ATVs of all kinds. He doesn't have driver's lists.

Speaker 2 That's very true.

Speaker 2 It's about the freedom, bro. That's what I'm saying about the car.
It's all about the freest car. Yeah.
Yeah, because you don't need a top.

Speaker 2 You got to get the wind in your spiky hair. My five spikes.

Speaker 2 In addition, Cecilia was known to run up quite the tab at her local bar. She liked going to a place called the Limelight Pub and Grill.

Speaker 2 That's how she learned, and this is true, how to be amongst normal people. Oh, hanging out.
And by the way, it's Lime. It's L-I-M-E.
It's a bit of a pun. Oh, see? That's very nice.

Speaker 2 That's probably where she met the drug dealers. Quite possibly.

Speaker 2 Sure. Yeah.
Yeah. Now, Cecilia instinctively knew that no no one was going to stick around if she didn't keep raising the stakes.

Speaker 2 So she began saying that there had been a spiritual perimeter cast in the area around her apartment by her father, the diabolical Mr. Brad.
Yes, you will never leave Satan's jurisdiction, which goes

Speaker 2 from 3rd West 9th Street to all the way to 9 West 12th Street.

Speaker 2 The devil has a three-block kingdom that he cannot be unsullied by the power of Christ.

Speaker 2 She also said in more serious tones, this is also the time period where she would flippantly say that Mr. Brand would occupy the soul of her husband to rape her in the night.

Speaker 2 And her father, her soul, would jump out of the night. And that's the reason why, but then when he would wake up, he would no idea that he did it.
And everyone woke up having no idea that it happened.

Speaker 2 And she would say this, and eventually they'd go, huh, man, that is bad. And then they just all move on.

Speaker 2 Like,

Speaker 2 it's so weird, the matter-of-factness. I think it's when you start off by telling people that you're a werewolf.
I really mean this. Like, it does make everything else seem like, well, okay.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Well, if Cecilia were to cross the borders set by her Satanist father, which conveniently ended right outside of the mall and her favorite bar.
Hey, that's what I mean.

Speaker 2 He can't. Satan knows.
Yeah. If she crossed these borders, she would immediately drop dead from a death curse.
Alternatively, Cecilia would also say that if she crossed the fiendish Mr.

Speaker 2 Brand's boundaries, she would be set upon by an army of satanic snakes. Yes! The best part about satanic snakes is they have mouths at the front and the back.

Speaker 2 And they bite you equal opportunity when you're in the front of the back. Most diabolical, you never know.

Speaker 2 It looks almost like spaghetti, you would think at first. The ultimate deception.
And they're always angry because they cannot defecate. Dead on shit.
Filled with shit, lumps of it.

Speaker 2 Hard rocks of snake shit.

Speaker 2 No stab on it.

Speaker 2 As such, she will cut to her father, who's still just barbecuing.

Speaker 2 You know, like, she hated roller coasters. I know that much.
So I should have known that not to trust her. If you see her, say hi.

Speaker 2 As such, Cecilia would spend a lot of time in her apartment concocting so-called antidotes for snake bites, just in case the nefarious Mr.

Speaker 2 Brand decided to unleash his demonic snakes just because he felt like it.

Speaker 2 The death curse borders, however, would change arbitrarily, and Cecilia would often cross without consequence if she felt like it. If someone pointed this out, Cecilia would say that the atrocious Mr.

Speaker 2 Brand was capable of changing the borders at will just to taunt her. Just to taunt her, just so that she could go to the rotor rooters?

Speaker 2 Because then Satan's, again, not that bad. That kind of shows that Satan's kind of lenient.
But also sometimes they'd say, you know, we passed the borders.

Speaker 2 And what she'd do is, which is amazing, she'd go, oh, my God.

Speaker 2 I cannot express to you guys. I cannot express to you guys that this is literally what she did.
And she had these people. And then everyone just believed her.
Yeah. They're so.
Fucking stupid.

Speaker 2 They're gullible. Gullible.
Candace, I've been listening to hours of your podcast. I hope you listen to our show.
I love you, Candace, and I support you. You need an editor.

Speaker 2 You need an engineer. You need somebody to come in there to your podcast and fix it.
Please, we'll put it out on LPN. I'll fix the whole thing.
No, no, no. I want her at the house.

Speaker 2 I'm inviting her into Marcus's house. I'll give you his personal address, Candace.
I need you to come here and I will talk with you about this.

Speaker 2 But it's the true most hidden esoteric knowledge because it is so boring that it takes hours to pour through to get anything that is remotely good in the story.

Speaker 2 But now I got it right, which is just remembering that I was like, when you hear Candace talk, she was so like, you know, and then when she told us that she was the werewolf and we all sat and we were very worried, very worried that she was what she was going to do.

Speaker 2 And then she'd go into the other room and come out and these horrid things would have groaned and she'd go

Speaker 2 and oh, Cecilia would frighten all of us knowing that she was about to transform. So we'd scatter.

Speaker 2 We'd scatter, so afraid. She would literally just put vampire teeth in her mouth in the other room.
Yeah, and they'd run away before anything else had to happen.

Speaker 2 And then she'd go into this other stuff. And then, oh, come on.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Very annoying. Yeah.
Well, it just really goes to show you what people will believe when their entire worldview is shattered.

Speaker 2 I mean, this is like, I mean, apartheid was, I mean, it was, you really can't express how horrible it was. But it was 20 years ago at this point.

Speaker 2 But I will say, it does affect the entire vibe of the country. Obviously, it affects people across the board, but it's still just like,

Speaker 2 I don't blame apartheid. Honestly, I'm sorry, when it comes to werewolves.
It's because it's just like, where

Speaker 2 within the tenets of apartheid? Does it say that werewolves get an extra vote? If that was a part of it, honestly, this would be huge. It would be huge.

Speaker 2 If apartheid said that werewolves were also real, that would be amazing.

Speaker 2 I mean, really, if you look at it, it took eight years after Obama was elected for QAnon to even begin, you know, because it began with Pizzagate. It began with, you know, the spirit

Speaker 2 cooking and all that shit, you know, from the Podesta emails and all that.

Speaker 2 So it was, you know, these things take a long time to bubble.

Speaker 2 And it's, and at this point, you know, like, it's still like the world that they knew when they were children is no longer the world that they exist within.

Speaker 2 And the people that are too young to remember any of that are being told by those that are older than them: like, this country used to be safe. It used to be fine until the Satanists came.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, it's all blamed on the Satanists.

Speaker 2 What about the werewolves? So the werewolves were already there. So did they start it? Were they the first? Were they the first ones in Africa? Well, she's a 42nd generation werewolf.

Speaker 2 So actually, the werewolf came from Egypt because that's where her generation

Speaker 2 generation started. Good God, yes, that's right.
No, what I was doing.

Speaker 2 It was Egypt. That's where the first werewolf eggs came from.
Oh, I'm a fucking idiot. I like cats.

Speaker 2 I want to see some weir prairie dogs. That'd be fun.
I'll show you a weird prairie dog in under my fucking pants. That's weird.

Speaker 2 But it's like that thing where it's like people are so much more ready to believe something that's completely insane than anything logical.

Speaker 2 It's almost like believing in a completely literal version of Jesus and God. Yes.
So it seems to all kind of go hand in hand.

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Speaker 2 Now, you'd think that all this would be a matter for the police, because after all, South Africa did have the occult-related crimes unit. Technically, they were trained for this.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, and the government's telling you this shit's as real as fucking can be arrested. But Cecilia insisted that the infernal Mr.

Speaker 2 Brand was in league with law enforcement, and any information given to them. I created the seatbelt logs.

Speaker 2 Yes, the most devilish of all the logs. How dare you be safe? $60 a title!

Speaker 2 You thought he was Ralph Nader, but he is truly my puppet. My evil man, my bride, Ralph Nader, how well he suckles upon my satanic balls

Speaker 2 but any information given to the cops would of course harm Cecilia yeah there was however another reason for not going to the cops remember that Cecilia's husband was a police officer oh yeah that's the cop yeah yeah the guy who's chicked

Speaker 2 the guy on the couch

Speaker 2 and I don't know what's happening Like it's literally this guy's entire role in this whole thing. Him going, huh, you guys having a good night? Oh, you're watching the Wolfman again, huh?

Speaker 2 All right, I got to go. Yeah, I'm going to order pizza.
Yeah, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go to my gay lover because apparently he was gay.
Oh, really? According to Candace. Well, that's

Speaker 2 I don't know about that. I mean, Candace is, I don't know how much to trust Candace.
Candace, she's like, there's so many things that you just don't understand. The horrid things she showed us all.

Speaker 2 We were all forced to watch the worst film I've ever seen. You had all these ghosts in a prison and the one with the breasts out.
13 ghosts? 13 ghosts. God damn, I just watched that movie.
It sucks.

Speaker 2 One of the scariest films I've ever. I couldn't believe they'd have all in one house.

Speaker 2 So many ghosts. It's too much.
How do you collect rent?

Speaker 2 Well, I'd imagine the reason why Cecilia didn't want anyone going to the cops, because I would imagine she didn't want her husband involved in her scam.

Speaker 2 But as we'll see later, anytime Cecilia and or her followers started feeling any heat, the investigation would mysteriously stop. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Now Rhea Grunwald's bond with Cecilia was affecting the rest of her relationships in the Christian community.

Speaker 2 The lighthouse full gospel church broke contact, followed by other churches and police departments who'd once trusted Rhea as a Satan hunter. Likewise, people stopped booking her enrichment weeks.

Speaker 2 Rhea blamed all of these severed relationships on the machinations of the satanic church. Oh, yeah, that's the only reason why we're not in top 10 iTunes right now.

Speaker 2 That's all they do, man, is come for us, especially because this is not the satanic church.

Speaker 2 It's the the Christian church that's masking themselves as a satanic church, as we know that's what's happening inside of the TST.

Speaker 2 They've been flipped from the inside by Christian ideologues in order to turn themselves into a religion. Maybe we should change the genre of this podcast to religious.

Speaker 2 Oh, I think that's a good way to get some new clients out.

Speaker 2 Well, Cecilia only encouraged this belief that the Satanists were behind everything, because with every broken bond, Rhea had more time and energy to spend with Cecilia.

Speaker 2 To make herself even more of a handful, Cecilia claimed that she suffered from dissociative identity disorder, DID, more commonly known as multiple personality disorder.

Speaker 2 Just know that, so now hear this. All right, so it starts with contacting Rhea, saying that you are this 42nd, the just this 42nd generation, most powerful rich in all of Africa.

Speaker 2 You are being saved every night

Speaker 2 from all of these satanic attacks, and you're this victim. Then it begins the health problems.

Speaker 2 You have all these things going on because it's like you could see it kind of the group, the way it would get together. They would all get together and help her on the high nights.

Speaker 2 And then it would slowly devolve into them just kind of hanging out, like kind of just being a friend group. That used to make Rhea angry because Ria was like, this is serious.

Speaker 2 We need to really focus on this. Eventually, that got to be sort of like, well, how many times is this going to happen for how long? Like naturally, people get tired of the story.

Speaker 2 So then the physical stuff started. And then that becomes a new thing.

Speaker 2 You need to pay for me and do these things for me because I'm physically unable because of the previous attacks then it just gets worse then she adds the next angle like that's what's hard is that she didn't arrive with did in front of all these people no that sprung up on him yeah about a year in well amongst a hundred other personalities there was xena she had a foul mouth i'm a bit of a cunt but some people say i'm a bitch

Speaker 2 you also had a keisha the dangerous and argumentative leader of a thousand lesser demons don't you tell me me how to raise my baby?

Speaker 2 There was also Linda, the master chef, who, quite appropriately for her profession, had quite the cocaine habit. Oh my god, are you gonna believe I was gonna think about it?

Speaker 2 We gotta put in a new hot tub and then we were gonna go out there and I was gonna start a new sub-group in the ceiling. And we went up there, and it was me.

Speaker 2 It was me, and I started with two squirrels, and then I went, I met me and the mailman. We were talking about you, oh, we need to open up a barbecue restaurant.

Speaker 2 Mom, get your mom some cocaine. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But Linda was only one of a long list of experts, which included a doctor, a psychiatrist, an engineer, a lawyer, and an IT specialist.

Speaker 2 Man, that's super fucking super convenient to have.

Speaker 2 You also had Daphne, who spoke English and drank tea, possibly named after the Fraser character. Absolutely.
That's a fucking copyright infringement.

Speaker 2 That's one of the three TV shows they got over there.

Speaker 2 Then there was Anya, the nervous three-year-old who loved to play in color.

Speaker 2 Anya was surprisingly useful because when Cecilia wanted to get back at someone, she could say that the person who displeased her had molested Anya.

Speaker 2 But it was Cecilia when she was Anya, so they were only a child molester when they were touching her as Anya, and then they were only attracted to her when she was Anya.

Speaker 2 Which is weird because I've never had that. I've played thousands of little boys, and I've never been approached by a molester saying, Play that little boy again like you did.

Speaker 2 Was Mikey Shatz considered a little boy? Oh, very much so.

Speaker 2 But mentally, but he was grown up.

Speaker 2 He was, yeah, physically very large physically very very large now again did is one of the most subtle weird it's like a thing that it's very difficult to talk about well it only extremely rare some argue that there are many people that say they've never seen it once in their entire career well the let's just say the the the the jury's out on DID.

Speaker 2 We're not quite certain what's going on with it. But this lady used to do full-on

Speaker 2 exactly as you think.

Speaker 2 Each one's a different character. Anya, she would like poop in her pants and fall down and go like, me want a chocolate shake from the store, nanya.

Speaker 2 She would do this stuff and then they'd all scurry to go do stuff for her.

Speaker 2 Because and what Candace kept saying, which I find interesting, she was like, Cause who in their right mind would make up something like this?

Speaker 2 And it's like uh somebody that is uh playing all of you morons like a bunch of fiddles, sadly. Yeah, it's like if M-Night Shyamalan split was called shit.

Speaker 2 Some people did say that. To those reviewers, I say, you're incorrect.
That movie's awful. I like that fair.

Speaker 2 Now, it is probable that Cecilia had done her homework concerning satanic ritual abuse because her whole story, including the multiple personalities, sounds very similar to the discredited 1980 book, Michelle Remembers.

Speaker 2 She ripped everything off. Yeah, that was a kickoff point for the satanic panic in America.
And Michelle Remembers, a psychiatrist used hypnosis on a woman that, by the way, he later married.

Speaker 2 That's the best psychiatrist of all.

Speaker 2 He made his patient into the exact type of woman he wants to fuck. And he uncovered so-called repressed memories.

Speaker 2 That's also a discredited concept, of satanic ritual abuse that had been inflicted upon Michelle by her father.

Speaker 2 Michelle claimed that starting at the age of five, she was ritualistically tortured through sexual abuse, imprisonment in cages, the witnessing of human sacrifices, and enduring rituals in which the blood and body parts of sacrificed babies and adults will be rubbed on her body.

Speaker 2 Always getting rubbed. The worst kind of lotion.

Speaker 2 It doesn't do anything. I've tried.
Well, the blood, you know, they put that in certain facial treatments. It's your blood, though.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's not going to be good.

Speaker 2 Mine's all filled with liquor.

Speaker 2 Did you just get drunk in this office, sir?

Speaker 2 I am urinating.

Speaker 2 We know, sir. We know.

Speaker 2 Now, Michelle remembers has been discredited a dozen times over for a multitude of reasons. Keeps popping back up, though.

Speaker 2 But it seems like Cecilia may have read it and taken notes, because multiple personality disorder features heavily in Michelle's story.

Speaker 2 In an echo of what Michelle Remembers claimed, Cecilia said that the satanic ritual abuse that she suffered as a child caused her personality to shatter into a hundred different identities so she could escape the trauma of what happened to her.

Speaker 2 Conveniently, though, each of these hundreds of individual personalities were susceptible to their own personal demons, literal demons, which made Cecilia even more high maintenance because she needed a hundred times more attention.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's the freelancing gig that just keeps giving for Christ. And it's very difficult because they are already taking all these things seriously.
So at this point, you're just seeing DLC.

Speaker 2 That's what this is. This is the DLC to the main game.
The patience these people have. Oh my God.
You say patience. You see, this is what I find interesting because I don't think it's patience.

Speaker 2 I think it's ego. I think that there is a hidden ego in some of these people.
We're saving this woman. Yes.
We're doing this. We are the only ones capable.

Speaker 2 We're the ones that are standing between society and the devil. We are the, and they are just little old ladies and little, like, just normal church people.

Speaker 2 But there's also like a fair amount of people in their 20s. Oh, yes, but they believe wholeheartedly they are in a one-on-one

Speaker 2 match versus the devil himself.

Speaker 2 And guess what? If that was true, they'd fucking lose. Okay?

Speaker 2 I'm sick of these fuckers. You think that Satans could be put down that easily? I'm just so angry.

Speaker 2 And that idea that you would even be, could think that you guys would all just get together and just fucking with your dumpy ass Capri pants. You think you're going to fucking shut down the devil?

Speaker 2 Yeah. You think the Pope can't.

Speaker 2 No one can.

Speaker 2 That's the whole point. Yeah, man.
If the devil's after you, you got to go where it isn't. Sausalito.

Speaker 2 Why is he not on the devil? Why is he in Sausalito? He's beautiful. Have you ever been? I thought the devil would love to go.
That's my vacation.

Speaker 2 Well, Cecilia said that her multiple personalities were a result of her occult programming, which started when her father, the villainous Mr.

Speaker 2 Bran, buried her alive in a coffin with a small pipe sticking out of the ground for air. She also claimed that he tied her up with the dogs and made her live like a dog for three weeks.

Speaker 2 Honestly, I could live like Carpenter for three weeks. Oh, yeah.
She does get quite taken care of. Get the little blankets set out.
That's actually kind of nice.

Speaker 2 You know, he puts it out being like, you see, I made chicken.

Speaker 2 Oh, it looks like my little puppy wants some chicken as well.

Speaker 2 They take her to the spa. Carmen goes to the spa.
Carmy gets all that shit taken care of. She's lucky, little girl.
I could live like Rambo for a little while. Oh, yeah, get care.
Stop walking.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, that'd be great.

Speaker 2 Now, as far as Cecilia's so-called biological mother went, the satanic witch Elise, Cecilia said that she had control over her hundreds of personalities, which helped keep them all in check.

Speaker 2 This, Cecilia said, was Elise's maternal right.

Speaker 2 But out of the blue one day, Cecilia told Rhea that the satanic church had decided to ritually sacrifice her witch mother Elise because they really wanted to sacrifice Cecilia, but couldn't get to her for some reason.

Speaker 2 So they were going to sacrifice her mother in her place. This is like what's going on in Ukraine.

Speaker 2 Proxy war. No.

Speaker 2 But nothing. Elise is fine.
Well, Elise doesn't exist. No, Elise is not real.
It never was. Remember Elise is the pic.
Remember, she showed the picture of the woman from Blade and said, this is Elise?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, Elise doesn't exist at all. Ever.
Oh, that's right. That's right.
And her actual mother.

Speaker 2 Barbecue. Normal lady.
Yeah. Hang out.
Literally cuts back to the two of them. He's on the gutter.
She's making a quilt, just being like, oh, she always had such a colorful imagination.

Speaker 2 This was her favorite color, blood red. She loved it.
She always said that we were the devil's parents. I always thought it was just a slang term.
But either way, tell her we say hi.

Speaker 2 She's coming home for Christmas.

Speaker 2 Now, while the so-called execution was taking place, burnt at the stake, by the way, Cecilia writhed on the floor while crying and convulsing because she said that her soul had astral traveled to witness Elise's execution.

Speaker 2 This gave Cecilia's story a little dramatic give and take because she could then say that she should have never left the church, which required Rhea to console her and tell her that, no, no, no, you did the right thing by coming to me and I can save you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because Rhea's like, this is all. Rhea has the biggest fucking God complex, a biggest savior complex of any person I've ever come across.

Speaker 2 I know that she was heavily embarrassed and she does actually view herself as the truly like the source of all of the problems here.

Speaker 2 She was like betrayed by all of these people, but Rhea really

Speaker 2 didn't help. No.
Rhea really went in there and

Speaker 2 at her beck and call. She made her feel exactly fine and correct about all of her decisions and put aside her entire life to help Cecilia.

Speaker 2 And I do believe the reason why is because she thought at the end she'd get a big old book out of it. I think that she thought that she'd looked at Sybil and she looked at these other things.

Speaker 2 And I'm pretty certain she viewed herself as like the other big Christian celebrities that were coming out about at that like earlier, but she would be one of them where she would be almost like, like, I'm trying to think of an Ed and Lorraine Warren

Speaker 2 style. Yeah.
yes, but for Christ. Yeah,

Speaker 2 it seems, however, that the ultimate goal here, when you know, when it comes to killing off the mother and saying that, you know, all of the maternal rights over all of Cecilia's personalities have now been given to Rhea, it seems like this is like a transfer of a little authority to Rhea.

Speaker 2 Because it seems like Cecilia was very aware of the need to give Rhea just a little bit of power.

Speaker 2 She knows how to play each person in this circle. She knew that like Rhea needed to have like the tiniest bit of control over what was happening here.

Speaker 2 So, Cecilia's like, okay, you can have this over me. But the thing is that she's not giving her any control at all because she's just giving her control over something that doesn't exist.

Speaker 2 Cecilia told Rhea that when a satanic witch is sacrificed, she is able to bequeath her powers to someone else. And Elise had given Rhea matriarchal rights over Cecilia's multiple personalities.

Speaker 2 After that, all of Cecilia's personalities would call Rhea mama. And Rhea had a bit of control.

Speaker 2 And she loved it. She just loved this feeling.
Like they all like, this is,

Speaker 2 you got to be careful about setting yourself up for,

Speaker 2 they asked for it and it came.

Speaker 2 They wanted a witch to come that they could fix and it came. Yeah.
And this is the problem is that it

Speaker 2 completes the cycle of their own delusion. Yeah, but it's, yeah, that's the problem is that the person who shows up is going to be fucked up and extremely chaotic.

Speaker 2 And because they're also, because you're asking for a certain parameter of thing, that con person can then completely fit their personality to fit whatever it is that you're talking about.

Speaker 2 Like, this is, I know that most of our listeners are not into this area of belief. So that's what's hard to believe.

Speaker 2 All of us, especially like, and we're listening to Candace, because she's always like, it's the details that Cecilia would use that would convince her that it was real.

Speaker 2 And every one of the details was from a 1980s horror movie.

Speaker 2 They were not even made up by her. She was making shit up.

Speaker 2 Man, and it's just like if she tried this shit like 10 years earlier, even in Africa, they would have just killed her. They would have just literally killed her.

Speaker 2 She waited. That's why I also feel like, in a way, it works because it's now we're in this heat quote unquote healing time.

Speaker 2 Well, everything that Rhea was doing for Cecilia, especially financially, eventually caught up with her. Rhea lost her apartment in Florida, the town.
The town. Yeah.

Speaker 2 and had to move in with the aforementioned school teacher, Mirinda Stain, in Krugersdorp.

Speaker 2 If you'll remember, Mirinda had experienced a spiritual awakening at one of Rhea's enrichment weeks and had, in the time since, become one of the most ardent believers in Cecilia's tales of Satanism.

Speaker 2 Now, Mirinda had already been married and divorced twice by the time she joined Overcomers Through Christ and had come out of her marriages with a girl named Marcel and a boy named LaRue.

Speaker 2 They were both children when Rhea Grunwald and Cecilia Stain, no relation, no relation, came stomping into their lives.

Speaker 2 La Rue,

Speaker 2 let's just say that's one of the best names for a goon. I've heard a lot of the time.

Speaker 2 Like, Larue Rue! LaRue,

Speaker 2 take this man away. Like, that's like, that's great.
I can see him with, like, slanted hat, like a ceremony. Short team, boss.
I'll take her down.

Speaker 2 You don't want me to take her down to the basement there, boss? Pushes his bowler half. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, I'll take her, boss. You want to go down on a swamp down?

Speaker 2 Now, as far as Cecilia's children went, she'd been pregnant with her second child when she met Rhea.

Speaker 2 And in January of 2008, Cecilia gave birth, bragging that her child was descended from the werewolf bloodline of the satanic church and would eventually be taught to walk on all fours and eat from a bowl like a dog.

Speaker 2 This is completely real. So she said to get her used to the wolf/slash dog lifestyle that she's got to get used to, which is first of all, you have to go,

Speaker 2 but like that's werewolf lifestyle. That's how you know when you do, when you meet another werewolf, wolf life,

Speaker 2 my protein's low.

Speaker 2 It's hard to cross your pop heads like that. It is.
So it's so hard. My little, my, I'll get my little middles.
It's the middle is over.

Speaker 2 But she used to, because when her protein low, she turned into a werewolf.

Speaker 2 So whenever her protein was low, they had to run out and get her meat, like jerky or whatever, so that she would then not turn into a werewolf. Doesn't really make sense.
I don't mean to poke holes.

Speaker 2 I guess maybe she, that's the thing, is that if her protein was low, she would become a werewolf

Speaker 2 protein. So she would be forced to go get protein.
Yeah, so there's a logic behind all this. Sort of.
And also, making your kid walk on all fours and eat out of a bowl on the ground, that's bad.

Speaker 2 No, it's fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 No, Eddie, not at all.

Speaker 2 Most kids are crazy. Yeah, because I love my parents.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Andrew, do you want to talk about

Speaker 2 where they got their werewolf ideas from?

Speaker 2 This is the part of me that, this is when I literally almost threw my iPhone across the room. As I was listening to the show, and Candace does this big roll-up where she's like,

Speaker 2 so soon after her child was born, she showed us

Speaker 2 one of the most terrifying movies we had seen up into that point.

Speaker 2 She'd shown us hundreds of horror films, and I hated each one.

Speaker 2 But this was the worst, because she said, I want to show you the only time that Hollywood has allowed a real werewolf transformation to be filmed with one of their sacred members of the occult.

Speaker 2 The lead actor is a member of the occult and he is himself a werewolf. And this is exactly what she goes through when she goes into the other bedroom.
to change into her werewolf status at night.

Speaker 2 And she sat down and she showed us... I shudder even thinking about it to this day.

Speaker 2 It was the 2010 film The Wolfman

Speaker 2 with Benicio del Toro.

Speaker 2 And that movie to this day

Speaker 2 makes me shudder if I see the cover of it. And when she said that, I was like,

Speaker 2 what?

Speaker 2 This is what...

Speaker 2 And she says, yes, that that was in her Cecilia was like, right here,

Speaker 2 this is the first time anyone's ever filmed My Transformation, and it's happening right now. And the Benicio del Toro is a werewolf.
And they all sat and watched it together, and they all cried.

Speaker 2 They all cried in fear, being like, you go through this each time. And she's like, each time.

Speaker 2 Each time I do this. Do you think they watched the whole movie? Because it's awful.

Speaker 2 The worst Wolfman movie ever made. I guess that's also what makes it infuriating.

Speaker 2 This is Halloween. This is the Halloween time.
It's 31 for 31. I wouldn't even think of putting the Benicio del Toro Wolfman on a single 31 for 31.

Speaker 2 Why in the living fuck would you waste your time like that? Why did they make the film? Yeah, use him an American Werewolf in London. There are so many other ones.
Ginger snaps, even Wolfin,

Speaker 2 fucking Silver Bullet. I'd say even the Jack Wolf.
The Howling. Yeah.
There's so many others.

Speaker 2 I just get angry thinking about it because I love the Wolfman. She would show them like an endless amount of horror movies and tell them that these are

Speaker 2 coded. These are the Hollywood, it's the same shit that they say now.
It's like Hollywood is showing you what they really do, they're taunting you with what they really do.

Speaker 2 And it was, yeah, and they so they watch her movies and think they were fucking real. And guess what, ladies and gentlemen? It's true.

Speaker 2 So, Henry, you think you're ever going to get one of those? A horror movie?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 You know, someone actually reached out to me this weekend and asked me if you'd be willing to do their horror movie for free. That's my favorite.

Speaker 2 I was in a movie. I was in a movie called Something Else directed by Jeremy Gardner.
So I was in one horror film. Uh-huh.
And did you get any of that like Hollywood feeling from all the Satanism?

Speaker 2 We shot him for.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I was in a trauma movie.

Speaker 2 I was actually in a trauma movie, too. Yeah, you were in Nash X-Brick Schutznor.
I was. Oh, yeah.
Same.

Speaker 2 Same as well. I was also, well, I was in the other one.
I was in Return to Newcomb High, too. That's cool.
Return to Return. Return to Return High.

Speaker 2 My wife is also, and Caroline was also in Return to Newcomb High, too. Yeah.
Wow. Yeah.
She kept her clothes on. Yeah, she did.
That's respectable.

Speaker 2 Well, in reality, Cecilia barely interacted with her children at all. She never played with them and mostly bought them toys and candy to get her to leave her alone so she could cosplay as a Satanist.

Speaker 2 It's just, it cannot be expressed enough that she was just like a white trash.

Speaker 2 Like, that's the only way to really describe her. At the center of all this, she really is just this like piece of shit.
Yeah. Bad parent, bump, mooch on all of these people.

Speaker 2 She is, I would say, honestly, close to worst roommate of all time. Jerry Bruno's maybe the top one.

Speaker 2 Worst roommate of all time. Didn't Ilson's going to be pretty bad? Yeah, pretty much.
Jeffrey Dahmer's going to be real bad. Real bad.
He had a roommate? No. I'm not.
I'm just saying if. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 I think trying to think who's the worst who had roommates.

Speaker 2 Because she had roommates. Yes.
She did. I thought it was all they're all living together.
Well, we're getting to that. We'll get to that here in a second.
Okay, okay.

Speaker 2 But that cosplaying was about to truly get out of hand, and it would take the combined efforts of Cecilia, Rhea, and the school teacher Marinda Stain to take this mess to the next level.

Speaker 2 Together, the three of them developed a training course as a sort of spin-off from Overcomers Through Christ.

Speaker 2 This course, which was an even more fundamentalist version of the occult training courses rhea had been doing with her enrichment weeks was called know your enemy made up mostly of what cecilia had told rhea about the supposed inner workings of the satanic church know your enemy was supplemented with verses from the satanic bible a copy of which that cecilia just happened to own which you can buy on amazon

Speaker 2 it's not a it's not a forbidden tome you can just buy it yeah it's not an evil it's not a particularly evil book either secular humanism mixed with edgelord humor. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, the course was also informed by Cecilia's encyclopedic knowledge of serial killers like Dahmer, Gacy, Bundy, and, of course, David Berkowitz.

Speaker 2 And Berkowitz, of course, been conducted to all sorts of satanic activity thanks to conspiracy theorist Maury Terry. She probably dogs.
Oh, yes.

Speaker 2 She probably read that book.

Speaker 2 The ultimate evil, absolutely. I'm more than certain she read that book.
This is directly.

Speaker 2 Just remember that each all of these, because it's later on, each one of them has been helped. Each one of these pieces of material helped Cecilia do this.

Speaker 2 While developing the Know Your Enemy course, Rhea spent most of her days with Cecilia, and eventually Rhea moved into Cecilia's apartment.

Speaker 2 Rhea slept in the main bedroom, again, giving her a little bit of power, while Cecilia slept in one of her kids' beds. But Cecilia's husband just slept in the guest bedroom, stayed the fuck out of it.

Speaker 2 That man is the power of a man to ignore things.

Speaker 2 I just cannot state just how deeply powerful that is. How a man doesn't have to engage.
And he will, the whole apartment is going to burn down.

Speaker 2 This is my space.

Speaker 2 There's a cube. A man can build a cube around their head in which nothing enters.
It's incredible. Later tonight, I will put the dishes outside the door.
You will grab them.

Speaker 2 Now, the first know your enemy seminars were held in Krugersdorf within the boundaries that Cecilia said were set by the malicious malicious Mr. Bran.
Whose house is it?

Speaker 2 God's house!

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's how it always started, you know.

Speaker 2 Well, at first, each one attracted about 25 people, and eventually the Know Your Enemy course grew to become 13 weeks long with weekly meetings lasting two hours each.

Speaker 2 But to attract the rubes, Know Your Enemy had to start off with a bang.

Speaker 2 In the first presentation, in which Cecilia was going to give all her inside knowledge as a former Satanist, she feigned an attack from satanic forces and had to be escorted off stage by Miranda.

Speaker 2 So, James Brown. Yeah,

Speaker 2 throw the fucking like cape over her, being like, What you had?

Speaker 2 But since Know Your Enemy was short on funds in the beginning, because Cecilia was such a financial drain on Rhea, they held their meetings at any place that wouldn't charge them money, including, bafflingly, AA meetings.

Speaker 2 Dude, no, man, trap it right on there, man.

Speaker 2 I will say, though, I feel like once you do the AA meeting and then you go to Know your enemy meeting, I feel like you're going to want to drink. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because if you're fighting the devil, you got to be kind of half-sauced. Yeah, a little bit.
Cecilia took care of that herself. Oh, yeah.
But

Speaker 2 I don't think fighting the devil is a fucking force over people.

Speaker 2 Most good priests, they got to get a little tipple in them. Yeah, there's

Speaker 2 all those movies, yeah. The priest always does bring up the little flask and takes a little hit before he goes in.
You got to, man. You got to get it loosened up.

Speaker 2 Devil, fucking, devil's fucking tricky, man. Yeah, old Father McNally needs his go-go juice.

Speaker 2 That's what I say to myself every Monday morning.

Speaker 2 But when Know Your Enemy began receiving a fair amount of donations from the Kruger's Dorp Fundamentalists, Rhea was able to get her own apartment again, although it was still just 200 meters from Cecilia's apartment.

Speaker 2 And Rhea's like, thank you, Lord. And all the 200 people are like, oh, what about the weed gave that?

Speaker 2 Now, obviously, everything Cecilia told Rhea, it's wildly fascinating, even knowing that it's fake.

Speaker 2 But to the people who thought it was real, the information imparted during know your enemy meetings was confirmation of everything they'd feared.

Speaker 2 And since Cecilia was telling a damn good story, Know Your Enemy quickly grew in size.

Speaker 2 Well, it's kind of like a hate rally or like a Trump rally where you go because it feels good to go hate on a bunch of things because, you know, like this,

Speaker 2 it's on the offense. You know what I mean? Going against the devil.
So, like, that's very inspiring. Like, you go and it gives you something to do.

Speaker 2 Well, it's like, makes you feel like you're a part of an army. Well, you get to also, that's the thing, you get to hate something and you get to that.
Well, that's the thing.

Speaker 2 You get to ignore the rest of your life. Of course.
Like, you know, I can't go to the gym today. I gotta go fight the battle.
Fight the devil. The devil's out there.

Speaker 2 He's not on the treadmill. Yeah.
That is what he is. Yes, he is.

Speaker 2 We know that. We know that as bigger boys.
We know for a fact that the devil is, he's in that chocolate cake.

Speaker 2 Once people really started showing up, Rhea began putting together a comprehensive training manual on how to resist satanic forces.

Speaker 2 Rhea, however, felt that Cecilia was more qualified to write it, so she passed the work on to her. This fucking bitch, because she thinks that legitimately, she thinks that she's in control.

Speaker 2 Rhea thinks she's in control. Oh, yeah.
And but at the same time, like, then you think that you could just off-source your work. Lots of things.
Not surprisingly, Cecilia didn't feel like doing it.

Speaker 2 So she passed on the work to Candace. Yes.

Speaker 2 As a result, most of the information in the Know Your Enemy training manuals came from Candace copying and pasting information about resisting satanic forces that had already been posted on the internet.

Speaker 2 And everybody knows that the devil doesn't like Subways tuna sandwiches. The battle of the worst sandwiches, and we all know that.
And we also know that the devil,

Speaker 2 not she, but the devil hates when they're late for their massages, so you better get her to their massages as fast as

Speaker 2 she needs to get there. And And the devil hates werewolves.
Which I didn't know. For a while, I thought that the werewolf and the devil will be on the same team, but then werewolves say they're not.

Speaker 2 Werewolves can't lie. To be honest, I'm not even sure how they can be.
Minute 46 of the podcast.

Speaker 2 Hours of it!

Speaker 2 Hours!

Speaker 2 What's so interesting about these courses, though, is that they weren't just attended by worry-warp Christians.

Speaker 2 They also attracted wannabe Satanists who wanted to learn how to become one of these infamous satanic high priests, which didn't exist in the first place. Yeah, dude.

Speaker 2 So, like, just we can fucking all these dumbass golf jeans in there being like, it's awesome.

Speaker 2 Each time they say something, fuck it.

Speaker 2 That was like me and Dare class. Yeah,

Speaker 2 what do the little green ones do?

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. How about the other? How about the blue ones? What do those do? Yeah, really? You're like writing them all down.
Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 So ironically, Rhea was actually helping to create the very thing she was trying to destroy. It's almost like it didn't exist in the first place.

Speaker 2 It's the only thing that ever fucking existed with the fake stuff of it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, although I'm pretty sure that after attending these meetings, these aspirant satanic high priests got bored and just moved on to something else. Dean Verd.

Speaker 2 But out of all the people who came, there were some who stayed to become a more active part of the organization.

Speaker 2 And it was these people who would make up the murderous cult that Cecilia would soon command. The two main members were 25-year-old Zach Valentine and his 21-year-old future wife, Michaela.

Speaker 2 Now, Zach and Michaela were extra-normal people when they joined Know Your Enemy, working respectively as an insurance broker and a travel agent.

Speaker 2 Cannot be stressed how fucking regular these people are. How can you...
Is there a term for being so boring that you can be weaponized?

Speaker 2 Like, what is the term for being like

Speaker 2 a you're such a blank slate that you've just been waiting for someone to come and tell you to do something something really fucked up.

Speaker 2 Well, you're waiting for someone to come along and make you interesting. Well, that's what all of this is.
Yeah. All of this is these guys all believing that.

Speaker 2 Like Snowtown, like I'm really looking at the differences between the two, right? Where Snowtown was never an official cult. It was more of like a loose grouping.

Speaker 2 And a lot of it was done socially for various reasons. But it's hard to really even describe what went on in Snowtown.
We're like, something like this. Like these guys were all waiting for a purpose.

Speaker 2 And I guess the Snowtown people were also, in a way, they believe that they were waiting for a purpose. Of course, you were a travel agent.
Who the fuck uses one of those?

Speaker 2 I actually feel like a travel agent has also got to be a job filled with jealousy. Because all you do is book people at your work.

Speaker 2 Like, they get to go to Cabo, and they get to go to southern France, and they go to Little Edward Island, and they go all these amazing places.

Speaker 2 They all take their big private planes from New York down to Little Edward Island.

Speaker 2 And it's wonderful, incredible people like Bill Clinton and Donald Trump and fucking Bill Nye the science guy, original Bill Johnson, and they're on the plane and this wonderful guy named Jeff.

Speaker 2 And he is the funniest guy.

Speaker 2 He's loose with the money.

Speaker 2 I like that guy.

Speaker 2 Well, just before Zach and Michaela got married in November of 2010, almost a year after they began attending Know Your Enemy courses, Rhea Grunwald suggested that before they bond their souls together, they should schedule a private appointment with Cecilia Stain to make sure they were both free from curses and demons.

Speaker 2 Yep.

Speaker 2 Coincidentally, Zach already knew Cecilia from a church they'd both attended in the past, which either didn't set off any alarm bells for the naive Zach Valentine, or it was explained away by Cecilia with a quick lie.

Speaker 2 Hey, last time I saw you, you were saying that the devil made you lactose intolerant. And she'd be like, Yes, he was for a while, but now it just does my hair.

Speaker 2 But the way zach and michaela valentine were quickly brought into cecilia's immediate sphere of influence these two people are so fucking gullible now after know your enemy became a success ria wanted to expand it to include a more positive but infinitely more boring course called know your savior who cares

Speaker 2 honestly it's jesus who cares right now he's a hair yeah she did not however consult with cecilia before doing so and this introduced the first crack in their relationship.

Speaker 2 See, Cecilia had been playing with Rhea for years by this point, and in order to fully manipulate her, she'd put tabs on her supposed protector.

Speaker 2 In addition to putting a tracking device on Rhea's car, Cecilia had also gained access to Rhea's email. These two tactics together allowed Cecilia to make the satanic church seem omnipotent.

Speaker 2 Well, one of the big factors that also doesn't come up in the book. I find that the book cut out stuff specifically because it it made the story less believable.
Like, even though it happened.

Speaker 2 Like, the werewolf stuff got cut out largely, and the astral projection stuff with Cecilia. Oh, the astral projection stuff.
There's a fair amount of that in the book.

Speaker 2 But that's all, that's mostly Candace's proof that she had powers, was that she would be able to say things that other people knew while she was astral projecting, but it seemed to largely have to do with

Speaker 2 having tracking devices and reading people's emails. Yeah.
And that was it. It makes you super psychic.

Speaker 2 It's pretty great. Rhea, however, wasn't the only person Cecilia played with.
Cecilia began catfishing her friends. Dude, this is also wild.

Speaker 2 This is a whole side question. Yeah, this is crazy.
She catfished Candace, Miranda, and Mirinda's two kids, LaRue and Marcel.

Speaker 2 She would use pictures of models, and these models would reach out to these people and claim that they were trapped in the satanic church and had no way out, lest both they and the person they were messaging with be killed.

Speaker 2 So these people just had no connection to the outside world at all.

Speaker 2 Their world is getting smaller and smaller all the time. Yes.

Speaker 2 Now, as with most catfishes, all these fake personalities made excuses as to why they could never talk on the phone or meet in person, usually by saying that satanic witches were trailing them and they couldn't risk blowing their cover by talking to Christians.

Speaker 2 And I can't make them know that I feel erotic feelings by kissing you in public, which is why we can only kiss in private.

Speaker 2 The most egregious catfish, however, involved the school teacher Mirinda, who believed that she was dating a Satanist named John, reluctant Satanist.

Speaker 2 After a few weeks of texting, Mirinda professed her love, and this fake relationship between Mirinda and Cecilia, posing as John, it continued for two fucking years.

Speaker 2 Two years. And this is alongside all the other games Cecilia's playing within this group.
Keep it all. It's like the one guy, the

Speaker 2 super stalker. Yeah, horrible superstalker from the worst roommates ever from that show, the first season.
Yes. Yes, it's because they have no job.
Yeah. And they have nothing to do all day.

Speaker 2 This is who you're up against on the internet. This is what we all have to remember with people like on Reddit and all this kind of stuff.
When you're up against somebody. The Tinder swindler.

Speaker 2 That's who I am. The Tinder swindler.
Exactly. When you're up against somebody that has literally nothing but time to sit and think about ways to fuck with you after they already have you on the hook,

Speaker 2 that's fucking you can't win. Well, she's all day literally her job because she's stealing from all these people.
Okay, so she's got, yeah, she's got fucking it isn't your, yeah,

Speaker 2 and that's why I feel like that's a hidden lesson here: is that treat things like your job if they're your job.

Speaker 2 She treated it like it was her job, she got every day, and she's like, How do I scam harder today? Yeah, I mean, she's in essence a criminal. Oh, yes, very much so.

Speaker 2 Well, finally, though, Cecilia got bored and killed off the John character just to watch Miranda suffer. And suffer she did so intensely that she had to be taken to a trauma ward.

Speaker 2 Privately, Cecilia laughed about how thoroughly she'd tricked her supposed friend. Who did she laugh to? Honestly,

Speaker 2 to myself, that's all I need. The bartender? I remember.

Speaker 2 There was no time I convinced her so hard that I could eat her pussy through the phone that she put the pussy, put her phone up against her pussy, right?

Speaker 2 That shit was fucking crazy, dog. Her clit almost popped off.
Yeah, I just called her over and over again. Yeah, I said, sit on it.
Like, I learned it from private parts.

Speaker 2 It's like, I thought you used to be an overcomer. I didn't know you still were.
More of an undercomer. Well, Cecilia would brag about it to Candace.

Speaker 2 Well, she wouldn't brag necessarily, but she would laugh at Mirinda being in pain. You know, she wouldn't laugh and say, like, I was the one who did it, but she would see Mirinda in pain.

Speaker 2 She'd be like,

Speaker 2 but then she could also blame it on, like, oh, that's one of my personalities. Or, oh, that's just because that's my satanic programming.

Speaker 2 And I forgot, Marcus, was because a thing that also came up that I forgot in the research was that what she would do is she would blame her multiple personalities.

Speaker 2 And every single time she had an issue, she would play the song, her favorite song of all time, Shaggy's It Wasn't Me.

Speaker 2 And she would play it.

Speaker 2 But apparently, she would have the chorus to It Wasn't Me.

Speaker 2 Like, she'd play it all the time, and she'd sing it all the time.

Speaker 2 So, whenever she fucking, any single time she ran into trouble, she'd act like a literally like a baby and go, no, no, me, just baby, baby. But then it turns into like, it wasn't me.

Speaker 2 I can read it.

Speaker 2 I can read the chorus for you.

Speaker 2 You could read it in an A. Yeah.
Honey came in and she caught me red-handed, creeping with the girl next door. Picture this.
We were both butt naked, banging on the bathroom floor.

Speaker 2 How could I forget that I had given her an extra key? All this time she was standing there. She never took her eyes off me.
It wasn't me. It wasn't him,

Speaker 2 you idiot.

Speaker 2 Also, banging on the sofa and had her in the shower. Caught me on camera, marks on my shoulder.
Talented.

Speaker 2 I told her. The screams getting louder.
She stayed until it was over.

Speaker 2 It wasn't me.

Speaker 2 But still, like, that's just backs all scratched up. This is all circumstantial.
It's circumstantial evidence. It will not hold up in court.

Speaker 2 That's That's the only good joke from Naked Gum 33 and a third. I fell on a rake.

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Speaker 2 Now, pretty much everyone in Cecilia's orbit was texted either by a Satanist wanting to leave the church or a Satanist who was threatening them.

Speaker 2 Sometimes, Cecilia would even extort money from her friends while posing as a Satanist, even though both Rhea and Candace were still giving Cecilia most of their income.

Speaker 2 Eventually, though, Candace moved in with a mutual friend named Lucia, who saw through Cecilia's bullshit completely.

Speaker 2 Lucia told Candace that Cecilia was a liar, she was nowhere near as sick as she claimed, and she was just using Candace for her money.

Speaker 2 Candace refused to believe it at first, but she soon after get a text from her catfish Satanist, a character named Wesley, asking for money.

Speaker 2 Wesley said, as many catfishers do, that he needed money for clothes. Satan took my clothes, and I will need a new phone because Satan likes androids.
So he took my android. Yes.

Speaker 2 And I need new bedding. My bedding has been destroyed by Satan.
I need a new pillow. Satan took it and my towels.
So yeah, please. Please buy me towels.

Speaker 2 If I send you money, I'm going to send you $5,000. And what I'm going to need you to do is pay me back $10,000.
But then what I'm going to do then is pay you $25,000.

Speaker 2 But first of all, I'm going to need you to send me some towels.

Speaker 2 You know, Satan's really into lobster rolls. He's crazy into lobster rolls.
Satan actually really wanted to try the new Coke Zero Oreo flavored. If you could maybe leave some

Speaker 2 as well. Well, still believing the lie, Candace Candace gave Cecilia the money to pass on to the character Wesley, because Cecilia could apparently still talk to Satanists where no one else could.

Speaker 2 And sure enough, the next time Candace went over to Cecilia's apartment, she found that Cecilia suddenly had brand new expensive linens.

Speaker 2 And so, thanks to Lucia's persistence, Candace finally started distancing herself from Cecilia.

Speaker 2 Cecilia, of course, caught on and tried to get her back, saying that the satanic church was behind this attempt to pull them apart.

Speaker 2 Candace, however, fortunately for her, broke contact entirely in 2010 and avoided all of the awful things to come.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Candace goes on to say in her podcast that they never had a lesbian relationship, that all of that was conjured up by Cecilia. Same thing with the Rhea lesbian relationships.

Speaker 2 He said that was conjured up by Cecilia.

Speaker 2 She said that they were, honestly, and it kind of makes sense a little bit of why she didn't stay, because I do think if they were slapping clams, they would have maybe she would have had more of a reason to stay versus this, where they were still friends.

Speaker 2 And it was just the stupidest friendship of all time. And I think eventually she just needed to leave because it was like, according to her, it was a slow, very, very slow pullout.

Speaker 2 I mean, it was, they were four years. Four years that Candace put up with this ship with Cecilia.
Ah. Yeah.
But I think also like Candace, Candace seems

Speaker 2 a little

Speaker 2 bit more. She says she goes along to get along.
Yeah, that's that. Which is, can you do that that terminally?

Speaker 2 Yes, that's cool with an option. People do it every day.
Yes, because that's what she did. Millions of people die when people go along to get along.

Speaker 2 It's like she wants the fame from it, but wants the, you know, none of it to be true.

Speaker 2 I think that she was sort of like made to talk. She got into talking about it because she was trying to deal with her quote-unquote own trauma.

Speaker 2 But I actually find it interesting of like, it must feel extremely bad to be taken in by somebody

Speaker 2 in that level of being dumb. Oh, Candace is absolutely, I mean, she's very gullible, but she's also a victim.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, like, thankfully, she didn't commit any murders, which makes her a victim, technically. So, and she just got her money taken, so that way she can be thankful.

Speaker 2 But it's hard because I say one half of it's the sunken fallacy thing of like you mad at how much time you gave to this werewolf. But then on the other half, you thought she was a werewolf girl.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 That should have been first thing. Now, with Candace gone, Cecilia had another villain.

Speaker 2 Except now, for the first time, this was a person that everyone knew, which made everything feel that much more real. You could put a face to the fucking situation.

Speaker 2 One of their own had betrayed them, the first of many, and it was all because they'd fallen under the influence of the satanic church. Well, she did start wearing tighter shirts.

Speaker 2 Oh, yes. Yes, because Candace started wearing tighter shirts, because Cecilia would always wear very baggy shirts.
Oh, did she put weight on?

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no. She just said that her own personal preference was she started dressing, quote-unquote, normal again.
Oh, okay. So people thought that she was being sexual.

Speaker 2 Now about a month after Candace left, Rhea Grunwald's brother died from a terminal illness, and she began to reconnect with her family.

Speaker 2 And after seeing how much time and money Rhea was spending on Cecilia, her family convinced her that maybe this weird former Satanist wasn't a good person to have in her life.

Speaker 2 So Rhea decided to put more effort into her know-your enemy, know your savior courses.

Speaker 2 This, of course, meant less time and money going towards Cecilia's so-called health problems and her private battles with the satanic church.

Speaker 2 But just as Rhea was pulling away, Mirinda, the schoolteacher, was getting closer to Cecilia. And that was a feature, not a bug.
She purposely was setting up the next group.

Speaker 2 In 2011, Mirinda and her children, that's Marcel and LaRue, they moved into the apartment complex next to Cecilia's, and Cecilia convinced Mirinda to put her daughter Marcel in Cecilia's service.

Speaker 2 At just 14 years old, Marcel was put in charge of raising Cecilia's young children, aged three and five. She also would cook for Cecilia and clean her apartment.
This is awesome.

Speaker 2 Yeah, she was her servant. And since they were hanging out so much, Marcel and Cecilia, as well as Marcel's 16-year-old brother LaRue, they all started doing Coke together.
It's wild.

Speaker 2 Candace said something that also I found very illuminating was that it seemed that Cecilia during this time period was collecting people that could be useful to her. Yeah.
That people were outside.

Speaker 2 There were chefs, obviously. There were also people that were like, one of them was a, uh, worked in accountants.
The other was like, so she ended up like, one end of being a nurse.

Speaker 2 So what she did was use all of them as her own personal staff. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And that was kind of like, that's like the first thing, my first hook in of like, so that's the practical reason she wanted a cult, which she kind of wanted a bunch of people to wait on her hand and foot.

Speaker 2 Yes. Yeah, but if the cook's a 14-year-old, the food's got to be awful.
Hey, man, I saw Master Chefs Jr.

Speaker 2 You never know.

Speaker 2 Cecilia had also convinced Mirinda, as well as four other people close to her, to leave their various churches because Cecilia said that the leaders of large churches were all involved in the occult.

Speaker 2 And so, once Cecilia really dug her claws into a handful of overcomers, she decided it was time to start her own Christian ministry, especially after she lost control of Candace and Rhea.

Speaker 2 This ministry, Cecilia's own little boutique cult, was called Electus Perdeus, meaning chosen by God in Latin. And Cecilia elected herself as leader.
Oh, wow. Good for her.

Speaker 2 Among a few others, Electus Perdeus was made up of the naive Zach and Michaela Valentine, a couple named Juanita and Charles Truder, and three women named Amber Dupreez, Melanie Van der Merva, and Natasha Berger.

Speaker 2 Cecilia's most ardent follower, however, was Mirinda Stain, who isolated herself and her two teenage children from all their friends and family, And shit got weird and demanding almost immediately.

Speaker 2 Do you know, like, we talked about this the last time, where it's like that idea of being overly familiar. Why do some people react well to it and some people don't?

Speaker 2 Like why is this idea of having this busybody come in your life? Why does, why do some people... Because no one else gives a shit about them.
Is that what it is?

Speaker 2 But she did have people who cared about. Miranda had people who cared about her.
They had her own kids and she had family. She had people outside of this.
They had their own church.

Speaker 2 Like, what is it about people that

Speaker 2 like this, this type of highly needy like succubus thing, isn't it? Some kind of. I think what it is, it's like, it's the same sort of thing that you see with Trump, but with the genders reversed.

Speaker 2 It's the strongman thing. Yeah, sure.
It's like, it's someone's going to tell them what to do. And then life is easier that way.
That's what Candace said.

Speaker 2 Candace said it in her own way, where she was like, it was kind of a relief because she didn't have to choose how to,

Speaker 2 it was kind of nice because enough to think about what to wear in the morning.

Speaker 2 And you're like, that little simple thought you just just had is literally like, so you gave up your will to another human being, which is obviously what she's working all out of.

Speaker 2 Like, she's in therapy working on it. Really makes me miss the days of Yonker Donker.
I know.

Speaker 2 Sometimes I wonder, will they ever bring back pina colad or Donkey Yonkers? I don't know if they will.

Speaker 2 Well, while Know Your Enemy and Overcomers Through Christ had been more educational, Cecilia immediately made Electus Perdeus more action-oriented, focusing on the deliverance and rescue of victims of the occult.

Speaker 2 The problem was that the so-called victims didn't exist, and Cecilia had to keep raising the stake somehow.

Speaker 2 So it was only a matter of time before the focus of Alectus Perdeus would fall on the only other people they knew in the Satan game, Overcomers Through Christ.

Speaker 2 Now, most of the Electus Perdeus members got Electus Perdeus tattoos immediately. Cool.
With some just getting the words and other choosing a Celtic knot with the words tattooed inside the circle.

Speaker 2 Like Casey Anthony.

Speaker 2 I will say it's the best name so far. Electus Perdeus.
Yeah, it's out of Overcomers Through Christ and Know Your Enemy. Yeah.
Yeah, Electus Perdeus.

Speaker 2 I mean, that's the thing. Woman knows how to brand.
Yeah. The tattoos, however, were too much for some of the early members.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Melanie Vandermerve left almost immediately and I think got out of the whole anti-Satanist scene altogether. I think it's probably a good sign.
Just be like, I think I could go.

Speaker 2 I think I could just go get into rounded cupcakes or food trucks. Yeah.
I can just go to church every Sunday, and I think that'll be fine.

Speaker 2 But Natasha Berger returned to Rhea Grunwald and the Overcomers Through Christ. This would prove to be a fatal decision.

Speaker 2 Now, like Charles Manson, Cecilia fed her cult illicit drugs in order to better control them. But while Manson used acid, Cecilia used a much more unpredictable drug, meth.

Speaker 2 And the group would smoke about 400 bucks worth of meth every week. You ever see that? Do you ever read that allegorical story when Jesus turned meth?

Speaker 2 He turned the meth into powder, and then it was like baby powder, but then he turned it. Everyone got mad at him.
They're like, why'd you ruin the meth? So we turned it back into meth.

Speaker 2 And they all were like, yeah, you know what's wrong with me? That's awesome. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Now, if I remember correctly, wasn't Peter the Apostle like a huge meth ed? Oh, yeah, dude. Peter had fucking his whole thing was that he'd do anal for money to get meth.
He was gay for pay.

Speaker 2 And he'd get money for the meth. And then he would, and then Jesus would multiply it.
Yeah. And then he walked on whiskey.

Speaker 2 I've been wondering, honestly, I missed that little tidbit. I was like, what turned him into murder? And then it was like, yeah, meth.
Meth. We'll do it.
Yeah, we'll do it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't know if $400 a week is a lot of meth.

Speaker 2 It might not be a lot of meth. Besides stories, L-P-O-T L at gmail.com.
I wonder what the meth in Kruger Dorp is like as opposed to, you know, Boise of the Iowa. Yeah, I actually wonder.

Speaker 2 Do you think they got better meth in South Africa? I think america has the best meth in the world we have to we better have the fucking best meth i we're being very american centric

Speaker 2 we might be we might be i don't know i there could be the old country a great meth embodied you do meth in south africa please write in side stories lpo kl and gmail.com i hear the girls in the wall in the radio we are people i hear eastern europe has incredible method i hope so for their sake well after getting everyone good and paranoid cecilia continued using prepaid phones posing as various satanic satanic witch personalities, to scare every Electus Pradeus member into thinking they were in constant danger.

Speaker 2 And the best part about the meth is that you don't have to be as good at all the different voices. Yeah.
How did she keep the phones right? Because she must have like 15 phones. It was her only thing.

Speaker 2 It was the only thing she had to do all day long. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Cecilia, however, turned the messages into a positive, saying that if they were getting threatening messages, then that meant that they were on the right path. See?

Speaker 2 But even so, Electus Perdeus continued to shed members. And Charles and Juanita Truder left.
Charles Truder is the worst fucking name I've ever heard in my life. You leave me alone.

Speaker 2 You leave me alone. Yes, I will, I have a slug's head.

Speaker 2 But I still unfortunately have the blood and body of a man.

Speaker 2 I'm named after my gnarled vagina. Charles Truder.

Speaker 2 They left in June of 2011. See, Cecilia had officiated Charles and Juanita's wedding.
And the abrasive Cecilia had rubbed Charles' family the wrong way. Because it's just the way she acts.

Speaker 2 I could tell about this. She reminds me of someone we used to work with a long time ago, where they were just, they were just so brilliant.

Speaker 2 And all they did was like, I could just see her laughing and smoking and giving a werewolf ceremony where they're talking about fucking meat.

Speaker 2 I don't even know what you do in a werewolf wedding ceremony. Charles and Juanita is like Bonnie and Clyde if it was only in Whataburger Drive Seat.

Speaker 2 He's been sitting on it.

Speaker 2 Well, listening to family, just like Rhea had, Charles left with his wife and even tried getting Zach and Michaela to leave with them.

Speaker 2 They declined, mostly due to what Cecilia was telling them about people who left Alectus Perdeus.

Speaker 2 The exodus of so many people from this small group was not because of Cecilia or anything she did or how she acted, nothing like that, but because because of the incredible power of the demonic Mr.

Speaker 2 Brad. Yes!

Speaker 2 I created a group on where they all get tickets to have a wonderful bus tour of the central states of Canada. Yes!

Speaker 2 The most diabolical, most boring of vacations.

Speaker 2 You cannot resist a group bus ride through central Canada.

Speaker 2 Well, Cecilia said that Mr. Brad had brainwashed all of them into not only leaving, but into becoming murderers on his behalf.

Speaker 2 So everyone that left was not only now a Satanist, they were also a murderer, and they were very, very dangerous.

Speaker 2 That's what Cecilia is telling everyone, is that everything outside of this room that we're in right now is extremely dangerous and life-threatening.

Speaker 2 And even inside this room, they can also still get to me, so you have to protect me at all times.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but as soon as this meeting's over, everything's fine, and you're just going to go home, and nothing's going to happen. It is kind of like that.
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Speaker 2 But they're also on meth, and they're imagining that around every corner is a Satanist that's high. Every shadow, every car that might take the same route as them, all that.
It's all Satanists.

Speaker 2 And they're also getting text messages when they go home from Satanists, supposed Satanists, saying, I'm going to come kill you.

Speaker 2 You're dead. All that shit.

Speaker 2 They're on meth. Are they fucking all the time? No, they're family.
Well, they would have, according to Candace. Well, Candace left before the meth.

Speaker 2 But afterwards, she was saying that they were beginning to have sexual threesomes, that Miranda was having sex with Cecilia, and that they brought in another dude, and they were having threesomes.

Speaker 2 But I don't know. I see, I prefer, I wish the sex wouldn't get involved because I think it's kind of nice to have a family can do something together because it's so hard.

Speaker 2 You know, like if you're having a big methorgy and your son's there, it's not fucking that fun. No, I guess, unless everybody's on methamphetamine.
I've never done drugs with my mother. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I just wonder what that'd be like. We wouldn't do meth, but, you know, we would drink.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I've taken my mom's 500 MG motrons before. Hell yeah.

Speaker 2 That's fun. Now, by the end of 2011, Mirinda and her children were brought even further into Cecilia's orbit.
Mirinda moved into Cecilia's building, taking an apartment on the floor above.

Speaker 2 Mirinda then forbade her children, Larue and Marcel, from speaking to anyone outside of Alectus Perdeus because she truly believed that agents of Satan were constantly trying to get to Cecilia and, by extension, the rest of the cult.

Speaker 2 Cecilia then had Zach Valentine sign over all his income to Alectus Perdeus, partly because she just wanted the money, because remember, Cecilia and Candace, they're gone, and partly to bolster a lie that would eventually motivate the cult to commit their first murders.

Speaker 2 When do you think murder

Speaker 2 entered her mind? Beth.

Speaker 2 Just meth.

Speaker 2 I don't think until later. They realize, like, what? Oh, we're just going to murder now.
I think that this is going to give us purpose. We're about to start the escalation, but I think it didn't.

Speaker 2 I don't think murder entered her mind until she felt that murder was the only thing left to escalate to. Sure.
Yeah. Yeah.
No one has died yet. Not yet.
Not yet.

Speaker 2 Cecilia told Electus Perdeus that Zach's money was going towards an orphanage in America that housed 200 children who had been abandoned by Satanists who didn't want their children to suffer the indignities of being raised amidst satanic rituals and sacrifices.

Speaker 2 That's making sense.

Speaker 2 So the idea is, so it was self-hating Satanists? It was Satanists who didn't, they were Satanists, but because

Speaker 2 that was always the thing that she could say is that Satanists, all Satanists want to get out, but they can't get out.

Speaker 2 Because they're held in because of family bonds and because they are made a deal with the devil. Or no,

Speaker 2 if they leave, they'll die. Yes.
If they leave. For various reasons.
Yeah. If they leave, they'll be killed so every satanist can it's like schrodinger's satanist but she left yeah

Speaker 2 yeah because well she was you she was so powerful they allowed her to leave she's a 42nd generation satanic witch werewolf werewolves yeah so she you idiot yeah so she can leave but like lower satanists they're both that's the thing they're both but they are both evil satanists who want to kill you and also lost souls who want to leave all at the same time always it's all,

Speaker 2 I know it's probably, I know a lot of you listening might be like confused at times, but that's because Cecilia purposefully made it confusing. Yes.

Speaker 2 Like she wanted to make sure, she wanted to make sure everyone was off balance at all times. Well, it's also supposed to feel legitimate.
Yeah. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 So the idea is that we are slowly adding detail and doing all these things to make it legitimate. But also, again, meth.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And she could also, if she makes things confusing, that also allows her to be condescending towards people who ask her questions like haha you don't understand that's how she always was she's like turbo intact she honestly

Speaker 2 she is i think that's a massive word for her is she's fucking condescending she's so fucking annoying when you see her talking to these cops she's such a fucking annoying bitch you gotta hate her yeah she's awful well

Speaker 2 About the orphanage, because this orphanage lie, this is a very, very big part of what happens with Electus Perdeus.

Speaker 2 She said there's 200 kids that were held in this orphanage in America, but Electus Perdeus need not worry because Cecilia was communicating with these children through the astral plane.

Speaker 2 And with Zach's money, she would one day get them to safety. In reality, Cecilia was depositing all this money in her own bank account.
Where it was safe. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And over a period of three years, Zach would transfer over $100,000 to Cecilia. What are these people's jobs? Well, he's just all their money.
Everyone's spent, giving this lady so much fucking money.

Speaker 2 Well, it's a hundred grand over three years. And it's every dime that he made.
Oh, God. Now, it's debatable what Cecilia's motivations were for what she did next.

Speaker 2 But personally, I think she was just trying to start the fight with the overcomers through Christ so she'd have a reason to go after them.

Speaker 2 I think now she's just so high in her own fucking supply that all she wants to do is kill. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 See, Cecilia ostensibly tried getting back into Rio Grunwald's good graces by offering to buy Rhea a new car. Oh, wow.
Yeah, probably with Zach's money.

Speaker 2 Rhea declined the offer and also told Cecilia that she couldn't rejoin the know-your-enemy/slash savior courses, even after Cecilia begged her. How could she leave her out, Cecilia's the draw?

Speaker 2 But after Cecilia established a rift between herself and the overcomers through Christ because Rhea had rejected her, she accused Rhea of speaking with Satan and sent her this message: Playtime is over.

Speaker 2 This is war.

Speaker 2 Cecilia then went back to to Electus Perdeus and told them that Rhea Grunwald was now playing for Satan's team. Whoa.
And they all therefore needed to go to any links to help Cecilia say.

Speaker 2 Because if Satan can get to Rhea, she can get to anyone.

Speaker 2 Because Rhea is fucking, man.

Speaker 2 Her vagina was sealed shut by Mary.

Speaker 2 She can't have sex if she even wanted to. Her pussy was joint of.

Speaker 2 She was the daughter of Gina. She was the opposite of Moses.
She was the opposite of Moses.

Speaker 2 Starting small to roll her people into something bigger and to test their loyalty, Cecilia began her cult's road to murder with petty acts of vandalism.

Speaker 2 In February of 2012, Cecilia had her cult members smash and destroy the car of a local pastor named George Nell, who had worked closely with Rhea Grunwald and the Overcomers Through Christ.

Speaker 2 It's the only good thing she ever did. So far, this is fun.

Speaker 2 Again, all of this, if this was just shenanigans, if it all was just shenanigans, it'd be different. Not like Joseph Fritzel's shenanigans.
No. Oh, yeah.
But it'd be different. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, it's the thing is that, like, when you have shit like this that's just shenanigans, it's just a story that people tell in your small town. Yeah.
Like, you know, those wacky fellows.

Speaker 2 Like, you remember that shit that happened back in like 2012 when that fucking woman, Cecilia, convinced all those people to like make bombs and shit? Yeah. Yeah, that was funny.
Yeah. Cruk a door?

Speaker 2 Cruka's dope.

Speaker 2 Well, after that, Cecilia had her people slash the tires of cars belonging to overcomers during their meetings. Terrified, the overcomers changed venues.

Speaker 2 But Cecilia, acting as her eight-year-old spoiled child personality Lily, she was waiting for them.

Speaker 2 Rhea, separated from Cecilia, but still believing her story completely, she was alarmed because the meeting place was out of the bounds of Cecilia's so-called death boundaries that had been set by the heinous Mr.

Speaker 2 Bran. I just don't fucking get it because then you'd be like, well, then she'll die if she's the enemy and she's getting away.
But then you're like, oh my God, she's just so powerful. Yeah,

Speaker 2 that's the crazy thing about...

Speaker 2 Rhea is that even after she separated from Cecilia, she could never bring herself until everything, you know, fell apart, you know, and they were, she was fucking charged with 11 murders. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like, she was never able to bring herself to think, like, maybe Cecilia's lying. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 She had to believe that Cecilia Cecilia was real. Because it would discredit every single thing that she did with Rhea.
It seems like it's currently falling apart. Oh,

Speaker 2 it's gone further. Well, Cecilia's presence didn't stop Rhea and the Overcomers from continuing their fabricated mission, and some members were starting to stand out.

Speaker 2 Natasha Berger, who had returned to the Overcomers after a brief stint at Electus Perdeus, she had been impressing Rhea with her dedication to the cause.

Speaker 2 Somehow, the Overcomers had got word of the 200 fictitious American orphans, and they believed the story as well.

Speaker 2 So Natasha would use her lunch breaks to say prayers for the abandoned children of Satanists. People need shit to do.
They need other things to care about.

Speaker 2 We don't even have orphanages anymore, right? No, we throw them in the street. We kill them.
We grind them over the war machine. Okay? I get used to it.
You're dumb.

Speaker 2 At Rhea's request, Natasha then spoke about the orphans at the next know your enemy slash savior meetings and led the group in prayer so God could get the heads up that he needed to help some children in America.

Speaker 2 And what was God like, oh shit.

Speaker 2 Whoa, I didn't know that. Oh, let me look into that.
Oh, dude, kids, I should have done something. Whoa, gotta go over there.
There's a hurricane that came out of my butt. Snowy flow would not.

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 2 I was sleeping. Oh, shit.
I guess I could do something, but I fucking won't. There we go.
I just, all right, I made another baby with two heads. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I never got that fucking concept that, you know, the more people pray for something, the more God is likely to do something about it.

Speaker 2 Like, God is some unemployed asshole who needs to be asked a million times before he'll fucking get off his ass and do anything.

Speaker 2 Like God's a lame duck president who has to look at the polling to decide that he can do something about it.

Speaker 2 Now remember, Cecilia had complete access to Rhea's emails, so she knew about Natasha's speaking engagement.

Speaker 2 So Cecilia called Rhea the day after in a tizzy and said that she was in the hospital because Natasha's prayers had killed 171 of the 200 children.

Speaker 2 And that's how you know it's real because it's a weird number. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 What does that even mean? Yeah, she killed 171 and it disturbed Cecilia so much that she was now in the hospital. And Cecilia was screaming at Rhea.

Speaker 2 According to Cecilia, all the children carry death curses, and those curses had to be broken before the children could be prayed for. It makes me want to mash my head into the fucking table.

Speaker 2 If the curses weren't broken first, the prayers would trigger the curses and kill the kids on the spot. Yeah, sorry, everybody.
You think about me being God and all powerful and stuff like that?

Speaker 2 I just fucked shit up. Yeah, I fucked shit up.
Everybody got fucking dealt with it. Sorry.

Speaker 2 And the media refused to report on it.

Speaker 2 I'm sorry. He's got people.

Speaker 2 It's my bad. It's my bad.
Sorry, y'all.

Speaker 2 Well, Cecilia then said that the sickness parents of those children, they knew what the Overcomers had done, and they were coming for Natasha in particular to take their revenge.

Speaker 2 She's planting a seed of a story here.

Speaker 2 Now, interestingly, even though many members of Electus Perdeus had received hundreds of threatening text messages from so-called Satanists, they didn't bat an eye when Cecilia instructed all of them to text the Overcomers pretending to be Satanists.

Speaker 2 Yeah, she's like, well, they're all like, what? She's like, just don't worry about it. Yeah, yeah, don't worry about it.

Speaker 2 You thinking about it, don't think about it.

Speaker 2 And they all did Cecilia's bidding. They focused on the orphan angle, just texting everyone all the time.
You killed the orphans. We're coming for you.
We're coming for you.

Speaker 2 Rhea, meanwhile, she's finally fucking done with Celia. With Cecilia.

Speaker 2 One night, Cecilia called and said that she was about to die because a death curse had been activated, and only Rhea could save her. Rhea called Cecilia's bluff.

Speaker 2 and was probably not that surprised to hear that Cecilia was still alive the next day. After that, Rhea broke off all contact and ignored all of Cecilia's texts and calls.

Speaker 2 Rhea, however, still thought that the satanic church was texting the overcomers and never once thought that if Cecilia had been lying about the death curse, she might have lied about everything.

Speaker 2 Oh, God, it was just like this, when Candace breaks down about the, there was like some story. Same thing with the orphanages.
That's what she talked about.

Speaker 2 Was like the orphanages were like when she was like, there had to have been maybe of all the lies that's the silliest head. Hey, then this one story has a bit of a carnal of truth to it.

Speaker 2 And so he's like, shut the fuck up, Gandhi.

Speaker 2 She lied to you.

Speaker 2 And she never said a single true thing. It's fucked.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry it happened to you, Gandhi.
But you gotta fucking let go.

Speaker 2 There's just not cabals of Satanists ritualistically murdering people. It just doesn't exist.
We're going to Hollywood horror nights.

Speaker 2 We're yelling about putting the fucking Bavit statue next to the Ten Commandments and fucking in front of a courthouse. We're mostly not even talking.
Satanist, you mean? Satanist. Satanist.

Speaker 2 We're hanging out. We talk.
You know what? When I hang out with my Satanist friends, what's the last thing we talk about? Satan.

Speaker 2 We're just hanging out. It's just like a fuck you to the fucking square.
That's all pointed to be annoying.

Speaker 2 That's a point. I'm annoying on purpose.
I have honed this. Now, Cecilia was outraged that Rhea had finally rejected her for good.

Speaker 2 So she told the Electus Perdeus members that they had to provoke fear amongst the overcomers so they would stop the practices that brought death to 171 children in America.

Speaker 2 They had to stop praying for the children. Hey, um, Cecilia, what if we attack the Satanists?

Speaker 2 Too powerful. Too powerful.
But you're the most powerful Satanist-bitch werewolf that existed. What if you flip on them? It seems like that would be the ultimate coup.

Speaker 2 But I'm one Satanist against a whole world of Satanists. And even though I'm a powerful Satanist, I'm not powerful as all the Satanists put together.
You're a fucking idiot.

Speaker 2 I'm so stupid.

Speaker 2 Dumb, I'm stupid. Let me just.

Speaker 2 Yeah, let's fucking get him. I want to fucking crucify him.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I want to see blood. Let's kill the orphans.
Yeah, come on.

Speaker 2 Oh, I don't care. I don't care.
Let's go to morphins.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 at Cecilia. Do you think if we send them to war, they'd be warphons?

Speaker 2 That's cool. That's because we get your flip for them.
Yeah, you get rid of them and you kill their families, you know, and then you have morphins. Whoa, fun.

Speaker 2 Morphins needs to be the name of our daycare.

Speaker 2 Always accepting more children.

Speaker 2 Well, at Cecilia's command, the teenaged LaRue Stain learned how to make bombs off the internet.

Speaker 2 By the way, LaRue Stain is a name. That does not sound like a name.
It is a name. Yeah, LaRue Stain is like, I do say, it's a little mini Frenchman.
It's again, it's the same. It's a goon.

Speaker 2 building bombs and being like,

Speaker 2 I believe I can work something out like that, my friend.

Speaker 2 Now, the first bombing, held on July 4th, 2012, was an unqualified failure.

Speaker 2 That night, during an Overcomers meeting, Zach Valentine and Marcel Stain placed bombs somewhat like Molotov cocktails under the cars of a few members.

Speaker 2 But one of the overcomers smelled gas and saw Zach and Marcel planting the bombs, and they called on all the other overcomers to help chase them away.

Speaker 2 Rhea, however, didn't suspect Cecilia at all and announced that this was proof that the satanic church was finally coming for her. That's all she wanted.

Speaker 2 This is the problem, is that Rhea is getting what she wants out of this. Yes.
But while the first attempt was awas, Electus Perdeus's next bombs were far more successful.

Speaker 2 Using blank ammunition filled with shrapnel and firecrackers, sealed in soda cans, two Electus Perdeus members bombed Rhea's car and damaged it enough where it had to be towed away. No way!

Speaker 2 Not the tow truck!

Speaker 2 And they said they left some like bombs in the yard, like some holes in the yard. I mean, they were dangerous.
If they would have hit people, they would have killed them. Yeah, I gotta say it.

Speaker 2 I'm just saying that it's just funny

Speaker 2 how bad they could be at being supervillains. At first,

Speaker 2 a few days later, Cecilia convinced this group of Christians to burn down a fucking church.

Speaker 2 Using glass lanterns, Miranda, Zach, Michaela, and Marcel bombed the Lighthouse Gospel Church and left a note on the gate that read,

Speaker 2 Who is going to protect you now, Rhea?

Speaker 2 But then they're all like, so we're pretending to be Satanists.

Speaker 2 I'm like super confused in this whole

Speaker 2 bit. Yeah.
No, no, no. All the point is to keep you off balance.
Whoa, are you right? Wow.

Speaker 2 Let's piss on her.

Speaker 2 I saved my piss. Was I supposed to be doing that? Yes, my friend.
I think that you disappearing your piss is one of the nicest things I've heard a man do today.

Speaker 2 Good work. Let me see that piece.

Speaker 2 My favorite little girl of evermore.

Speaker 2 So the police did get involved here, and the investigators were able to pull a fingerprint from a newspaper wrapped around one of the bomb fragments.

Speaker 2 It belonged to Miranda Stain, the school teacher, and she was interrogated, but she was only issued a warning, and the court case was stricken from the records.

Speaker 2 See, this is where somebody had to be involved. She built a fucking bomb and set it off at a church.

Speaker 2 Now, it's unclear why or how Mirinda Stain was able to get out of this, but it's a pretty safe bet to say that Cecilia's police officer husband got involved and was able to make the whole thing go away.

Speaker 2 I just feel like fine, honey. Don't do it.
Okay. Oh, domestic terrorism, current.
or at least as long as it's not in the living room. I just don't understand.
We're like, that's huge.

Speaker 2 That's not a cops. Like, let's dispel some mysticism about some police officers.
Yeah, they do, they can fudge shit. But you're talking about like lifting cocaine out of an evidence room.

Speaker 2 You're talking about getting you off on a speeding ticket. You're talking about getting a hummer instead of fucking arresting him for DUI.
It's not like this. It's terrorism.

Speaker 2 Notoriously, one of the most corrupt police forces in the world. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You're talking American cops. Like, this is not, this is South African cops where they can absolutely sweep something like this under the rug.

Speaker 2 Now, fully emboldened, Cecilia told the members of Alectus Perdeus that Rhea and the Overcomers were actively working against them.

Speaker 2 The bombings had been an attempt to stop Natasha and the Overcomers from killing more children through prayer. But according to Cecilia's astral projections, they had not stopped praying.

Speaker 2 So, as Cecilia put it, Alectus Perdeus had two choices. Either Cecilia would surrender herself to the satanic church so she could stop the killing herself, or they could murder Natasha Berger.

Speaker 2 This was Cecilia's biggest gamble, the ultimate test of just how good her story really was.

Speaker 2 Unanimously and without question, the cult agreed to kill a fellow Christian, a person that had once been a member of their group and was known to each one of them personally.

Speaker 2 And I I do think that this is where, and maybe this is an inappropriate comment to make, but this was her ultimate triumph, which is she's got to them, these guys are really doing something that is against their very nature.

Speaker 2 Yeah. These people are not murderers, but I guess meth really does help.
Yeah. Put some pep in your step.
It can kind of get you in a bit of a paranoid way of thinking.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And they've been under Cecilia's, you know, influence for years.
Five years now. Yeah.
Yeah, for years at this point. And so it's uh

Speaker 2 slow roll up. Actually, um, Zach and uh Michaela Valentine, they've only been in it for about two years at this point.
They joined in 2010. It's a quick turnaround.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And everyone's ready to go, man. Yeah.
Now, Cecilia was admittedly quite clever when it came to planning this operation.

Speaker 2 She gleaned information from a former Electus Perdeus member about Natasha's work hours, who her neighbors were, and what security was like at her housing complex.

Speaker 2 Because, you know, in South Africa, you have a lot of complexes where they have fucking walls. Private security companies, all kinds of crazy shit.

Speaker 2 Yeah, this was under the auspice of protecting Natasha because Cecilia told the former member that she'd had visions that Natasha was going to be killed by Satanists.

Speaker 2 So Cecilia both got the information to plan the murder and she planned a story that drew attention away from her all in one fell swoop.

Speaker 2 And so when the cult was ready, they stole license plates and put them on their own cars so they wouldn't be caught if there were security cameras at Natasha's housing complex.

Speaker 2 It's a lot of steps to take people through, and I honestly think it does help the act of murder. Yeah, Barry, you have to slow roll.
You know, you can't just hand someone a knife and say, go do it.

Speaker 2 You have to make it an operation. You ever see that show where the magician convinces the people to go on the heist? No.
Dude, you should see it. I think they banned it.
BBC, you should look at this.

Speaker 2 It's wild. It's this guy basically proves you can drive people to do things against their will and is this famous sort of stunt magician, I forget his name, in the UK.

Speaker 2 And he does this thing where he essentially takes five strangers and he convinces them to rob a bank. My God.
It's odd, but it just shows it like it can happen. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Cecilia, however, when they finally went out to the Lancelot complex in the town of Weirda Park where Natasha lived, Cecilia hung back. She didn't go with them.
No.

Speaker 2 She hung back for every single murder. She would never be present for any of them.
She's got 20 diseases. She can't do anything.
She's got an oxygen tank. She can't be sitting there.

Speaker 2 Do you think she was even oxygen in the tank? No. I have no idea.
No, it was empty. That's how she got to carry it around so easily.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And they all, and also, remember, she is, she can't leave the borders, the satanic Mr. Brand borders.

Speaker 2 Now, the cult's first plan for killing Natasha Berger was to have the teenage girl, Marcel Stain, knock on Natasha's door and say that her cat was missing. That's like the beginning of a pornography.

Speaker 2 She would ask if she could check Natasha's backyard. Whoa.
And once inside, she would use a taser to knock Natasha out, and the rest of the cult would storm in and stab her to death. Jesus.

Speaker 2 But when Marcel knocked on Natasha's door and told her the cat story, Natasha got irritated and said, I ain't got no fucking cat in my yard. Get out of here.
Yeah. And she didn't recognize her?

Speaker 2 No, she didn't recognize her. The cult returned to Cecilia, and she decided, in a plan that's downright diabolical, to use Natasha's elderly neighbor, Joy Boonzayer, as bait.

Speaker 2 And so on July 26, 2012, Zach and Michaela Valentine, wearing wigs, left Kruger's Dorp. Beehive and Afro.

Speaker 2 Left Kruger's Dorf with knives, a hammer, and a gift wrap present. They arrived around 5 p.m.

Speaker 2 and knocked on the door of the elderly Joy Boonzayer and told her that they were friends of Natasha who wanted to surprise her for her birthday. I remember friends.

Speaker 2 They used to come by, and what I would do is I would strangle them and eat their meat again and again. And it's just nice to see some new young flesh.

Speaker 2 Well, Joy, thinking nothing was amiss, she invited them inside for tea. Please see me.

Speaker 2 Please be around me. I mean, honestly, that's what happened.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 But as soon as Zach and Michaela stepped inside, Zach pulled out his knife and ordered Joy to write an urgent note to Natasha, telling her to come see her as soon as she got home from work.

Speaker 2 Joy wrote the note, which Michaela slid underneath Natasha's door.

Speaker 2 Now, Cecilia added an extra level of manipulation to this murder by telling Zach that while he should kill Natasha, his wife Michaela needed to be the one to kill Joy Boonzayer because Michaela needed to learn how to murder a human being because there was going to be a lot of murder in their future.

Speaker 2 So for no other reason than just practice, they killed Joy. Well, to get rid of a witness.
Okay. Yeah.
And she.

Speaker 2 But they said it like this, like, this is all going to, this is under the auspices and the end of we're going to be be doing this for Christ. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But when it came time to slaughter the terrified, trembling old woman, Michaela couldn't do it. Instead, she ran out of the house, and Joy attempted to run after her.

Speaker 2 Zach, however, fully in Cecilia's thrall, had no problem killing the old lady himself. He wanted to kill.
He was probably the most ready and the most aggro to do it. Very him and Marinda.
Marinda.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Going all out on his first murder, Zach stabbed Joy in the neck six times, then smashed her with a hammer a further ten times. Fucking travel agents.

Speaker 2 So is them. His wife was the travel agent.
He was even worse, insurance broker.

Speaker 2 He was already killing people with his policies.

Speaker 2 And they had just left Florida.

Speaker 2 Well, finally, he took out another knife and slit Joy's throat. Joy was tough and managed to dial South Africa's emergency line, which is entirely too long.
10111. It's too many letters.

Speaker 2 It's too many numbers.

Speaker 2 And then Zack left the room. But it was too late for Joy.
She died in the entrance of her bedroom, trying to crawl to the front door.

Speaker 2 At that very moment, though, Natasha arrived and found the note that Michaela had slipped under her door. She quickly went next door to Joy's house, but it was Zack Valentine who answered the door.

Speaker 2 He grabbed her and pulled her inside, and while she did put up a struggle, Zack hit her in the head with a hammer before stabbing her in the neck, head, and arms several times as she tried to defend herself.

Speaker 2 Finally, he slit her throat, and Natasha died with Joey's note still crumpled in her hand. Now, this went as badly as it could have.
Essentially.

Speaker 2 Actually, I think it went about as well as it could have. I should mean in terms of like, it was all supposed to be, like, well done and neat and quiet and subtle.

Speaker 2 Well, how are they going to, they brought a hammer and a knife. It's not like they were chlorophyll.
I think that was, again, it was wrong tools.

Speaker 2 See, the thing is, I think that they wanted it to be brutal. To be this brutal? I think they wanted it to be this brutal.
I think it's sort of like Manson said, make it witchy. Make it witchy.

Speaker 2 You know, I could see that. Yeah, because...
Because of what would go on, they would go on to think of what happened with these people. Yeah, because remember, Cecilia's already planted the scene.

Speaker 2 This is from the perspective of Satanists. Yeah, Natasha is going to, Natasha is in danger of being killed by Satanists.
We have to kill them like Satanists would kill them. Exactly.
Got it.

Speaker 2 Now, the bodies were found almost immediately while Zach was still running to his car.

Speaker 2 His wife, Michaela, was waiting, and Michaela, understandably upset by her blood-covered husband, cried the whole way back to Kruger's door. You're messing up our seats.

Speaker 2 You're getting blood on the dashboard. It is hard to clean.
How was I supposed to know all that blood was going to be in their bodies? I don't know, but now you smell like old panties.

Speaker 2 Oh, I'm sorry. Next time when I cut someone's throat, there won't be any blood.
Are you sure? I wish you could promise that.

Speaker 2 We'll just have to talk to Sadie.

Speaker 2 Cecilia was, of course, disappointed that Michaela didn't fulfill her part of the mission, but she still gathered together all the Electus Perdeus members that night to celebrate a job well done.

Speaker 2 They celebrated these murders. And guess what they played? It wasn't me.

Speaker 2 That wasn't me. The Overcomers, meanwhile, were left to process the news that one of their own had been brutally murdered.

Speaker 2 They all assumed it was a Satanist who'd done the job, partly because of the savagery with which Natasha was killed, but partly because Cecilia had earlier told an overcomer that she'd had visions of Natasha being murdered by a Satanist.

Speaker 2 The overcomer that Cecilia had spoken to about all this was named Amber Dupreez.

Speaker 2 But instead of suspecting Cecilia, the murder of Natasha Berger pulled Amber further into Electus Perdeus, and she brought along her boyfriend, James Vermock.

Speaker 2 And what, they just had to keep this whole thing a secret from her? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because everyone else in the group knows what they did. There's a lot of moving parts here.
There's a lot of stuff going on here, buddy. You got to, you know, this is on them.

Speaker 2 And that's the thing is that they can also, once they bring her in and she's, you know, suitably brainwashed, they can say, actually, it was us that killed Natasha, but we killed Natasha

Speaker 2 for XYZ. Yeah, for XYZ, yes.
Now, as far as the police went, they couldn't have gotten this murder more wrong and they couldn't have been more confused.

Speaker 2 They immediately believe that the murder was a satanic sacrifice. Everybody gets what they want.

Speaker 2 But the know-your-enemy literature found in Natasha's apartment led the police to believe that she was the occultist.

Speaker 2 Fucking stupid.

Speaker 2 As far as Joy went, the nice old lady who invited them in for tea, the cops assumed that she was also an occultist because they found a bunch of half-burned candles around her house.

Speaker 2 And from what their training told them, candles equal occult rituals. Kind of be cool, even if it's retcon, if your grandma turned out to be a super evil like Satan.

Speaker 2 Like, you know, it's hard, but you go be like, whoa, grandma was fucking metal.

Speaker 2 That's awesome. I didn't know she was like that.

Speaker 2 Well, incredibly, because of the literature, the number one suspect in this murder was Rhea Grunwald. Yeah, that's the only good thing.
That's the only good thing.

Speaker 2 I would have been awesome if they arrested her. Because she was the know-your-enemy leader.
You know, all the literature, she was in charge of all that.

Speaker 2 In fact, when Rhea contacted the police to help solve Natasha's murder, the police took that as further proof that she was guilty. Rhea was interrogated and was told that she was going to be arrested.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we're out of border.

Speaker 2 But this actually made Rhea believe Cecilia more because she remembered Cecilia telling her that the satanic church would murder people than arrange for others to be accused.

Speaker 2 How fucking stupid are we? Why are we so fucking dumb?

Speaker 2 As far as Alectus Pradeus went, they sent even more taunting text messages to the overcomers, saying that Natasha didn't die praying, but it begged and squealed like a pig in the end.

Speaker 2 Ria had also pigs can't beg.

Speaker 2 And we know that pigs can't beg. Alright? Because we see those YouTubes.

Speaker 2 Rhea was also told that she could have prevented all of this if she hadn't sent away the one person who could have helped. That person was, of course, Cecilia.

Speaker 2 As a consequence, Rhea canceled all know your enemy and overcomers through Christ meetings to try and protect her people.

Speaker 2 But once the first two murders were committed, it was off to the races for Cecilia and her crew, and nine more people would die before it was all over.

Speaker 2 And that's where we'll pick back up next week, starting with the murder of a fucking priest

Speaker 2 for part three of the Krugersdorf cult murders. Dude, we just are getting to the gnarly shit.
It is going to be worse and worse as we go. It's going to get nuttier as we go.

Speaker 2 They don't get brighter. Nope.
Electus Perdeus. Also, it's just like there was a crazy murder.
Don't split up.

Speaker 2 Everyone, stay together. Now's the time to banned.
I think you're right. Yeah, you're right.
But no, that's what they decided to do. But that's why you weren't in Electus Per Deus, Eddie.

Speaker 2 Because you weren't an Electus Per Deus material. I was talking about the Overcomers.
Either way. Yeah.
I'm not a joiner. You're not an Overcomer.
You're not a joiner. Regular comer.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Just

Speaker 2 a comer. Standard cum.
That's

Speaker 2 Ed, just a Cummer. Oh, no.
They say it's Ed, just a Cummer Larson. To be honest, I'm a dribbler.

Speaker 2 We know this. I'm a Dribbler.
Justicumer actually

Speaker 2 sounds like a South African last name.

Speaker 2 Like, that's an Afrikaans name. Hello, my name is Gertz Justicumer.

Speaker 2 That's true. Great joke, Marcus.
Thank you. Really good work.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Wow, we really got him this time, huh? Yeah, we got him on the ropes.

Speaker 2 Patreon.com slash lastpodcast on the left is where you can go to watch video editions of every single episode we record. You can also follow us on the socials at LP LP on the left.

Speaker 2 We're on TikTok and Instagram. Check out all of our streams at twitch.tv slash LPNTV.
If you want to watch it live, go to our YouTube channel.

Speaker 2 If you want to watch it after the fact, and don't forget to go to lastpodcastontheft.com. Click on shows to see all the cities we're going to be coming to this year.
Los Angeles. November 2nd.

Speaker 2 Big one, man. The Wilton.
I can't fucking wait for that show. Fuck yeah.
And I can't wait for King's Theater in Brooklyn coming home to do a big ass fucking show. Cannot wait for that one.

Speaker 2 We're selling good. We just released some more tickets.
Go and get them. Yes.

Speaker 2 These shows are going to be fucking great. We're very, very excited because we have been honing our abilities.
I think we're better than ever, boys. I think so too.

Speaker 2 And we're about to announce a lot more dates for next year. So keep an eye out for your city.
When is next year? January 1st. It's a couple years.
Couple months.

Speaker 2 It's a couple of months. You'll know.
You'll know because a gale will get cold. Then it gets warm again.

Speaker 2 Thank you, fuckers and hail Satan the real Satan

Speaker 2 if we could and now game

Speaker 2 okay Yonker Donker hail Yonker Donker Yonker Donker was bad bad guy

Speaker 2 great name yeah you're allowed just the sounds he's allowed to hail just the sounds of yonker dunker sounds yonker dunker yeah

Speaker 5 Hi, I'm Jenny Slate. And believe it or not, someone is allowing us to have a podcast.

Speaker 2 I'm Gabe Weedman.

Speaker 4 I'm Max Silvestri. And we've been friends for 20 years and we like to reach out to kind of get advice on how to live our lives.
It's called I Need You Guys. Should I give my baby fresh vegetables?

Speaker 5 Can I drink the water at the hospital?

Speaker 6 My landlord plays the trombone and I can't ask him to stop.

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