Episode 610: Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell - The Doomsday Murders Part II - Ticking Time Bomb

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From the cocoon To your room There's no place to escape to This is the last hot ass On the left That's when the cannibalism started. Who's that? I just want to kind of maybe open up today's episode.
First of all, talking about how you guys are handling your own demonic attacks inside of your home. Yeah, right.
Yeah, absolutely. How has it been? Like, have you been able to sleep? I was trying to sleep

last night, but demons kept jumping inside

of my penis and making it

big. Big? Like,

too big.

And I was scared at first.

I was scared. Natalie was curious.

Then she was scared. Then we were both

delighted. Then we were confused.

Then we went to sleep.

Because I fell back asleep, my penis deflated. Yeah, so it's fine back to normal today smaller than yesterday interesting which i also don't like that i feel like in a way it's like if we wear too small of shirt have you tried rubbing it and rubbing it rubbing it and rubbing it and rubbing it and rubbing it rubbing it and rubbing it and rubbing it all morning and then i called my neighbor and he came by and he says have you been talking about chad dabel and Lori Vallow? And I said, yes.
He's like, I had a demon come into my house last night and make my wife's clitoris five inches long. And I was like, is that good or bad? And he just gave me two thumbs up.
And I realized he wasn't wearing any pants. So I actually, in a way, in that way, it's kind of helping the neighborhood.

Have you guys seen anything kind of the same

or different? Well, I learned how to bless

my own urine. Wow.
Yeah, and

so it's really, so I got

holy water coming out of me all day.

I'm doing great.

Can you actually, would you like me to

give me some?

Can you give me some, please, Daddy?

I want to be your hope urinal. Is that why you were laying down next to the toilet earlier yes welcome to the last podcast on the left ladies and gentlemen i'm free of demons marcus park you're free of i'm totally free of demons oh no no i i sold my soul many a year ago so they don't bother me anymore well yeah you know what my problem is you know what i never did when i was doing all that paperwork because obviously i'd have no need for it.
As a matter of fact, I could lose it. I could lose the weight.
Whoa. Yeah.
You know what my problem is? You know what I never did when I was doing all that paperwork? Because obviously

I'd have no need for it. As a matter of fact, I could

lose it. I could lose the weight.
Sure.

But I forgot to click finish

on the docusign. Ah, yeah.

That's how the devil

gets you again.

No dimitrixies.

You didn't finish complete. And we have the

technologically impaired Henry Zebrowski.

It's not me who's technologically impaired. Honestly, how am I supposed to know? It's always like at the end of some blank page.
I can't believe we all just agreed to just sign through the internet. Yeah.
It's like we just cut that, like the one thing that like really kept it real, which is make up my signature. Whatever.
I want to say my signature is just like a scribbled drawing of a flower. Print.
And we have Longin' for the Old Days. It's Ed Larson.
X. That's what I sign.
I like a good old-fashioned X. Oh, yeah, that's right.
You still haven't learned to read or write. No, no, no.
But I did learn that X is called X and not line-line. Wow.
Yeah. Wow.
Man, you're really growing up. Yeah, man.
Now I'm learning how to play the line line on the phone. I mean, the xylophone.
Get better. Learn.
I need you to learn letters. And here we are for Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow, part two.
Yay. So when last we left the story, Chad Daybell had finally gained a following of sorts

in the Mormon neo-fundamentalist doomsday community.

By appearing on Mormon Prepper podcasts

and giving talks at New Age seminars about the impending apocalypse,

Chad had gathered a small group of apocalypse-minded Mormons

who were on the same near-death experience trip as him.

His followers, however, were mostly women.

And amongst his biggest fans was his eventual partner in crime, Lori Vallow. Yep.
We're meeting her today. Oh, sweet, sweet Lori.
Finally my life is complete. She's gonna ruin us all.
You know, Chad Daybell, what I do find is interesting is that I actually, I watched a really good in-depth interview with Heather Daybell, his sister-in-law. One thing in common with all of these ex-mos, they all got that Connie Britton Yellowstone hair.
Everybody's got the big hair that looks like, kind of looks like a Tina Turner wig. It's got a bunch of four different flavors.
Oh, you mean Friday Night Lights hair. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's got that sort of like four different kinds of blondes in it.
You know what I mean? It's very big. They all got also crazy fakies.
Yeah. But why not? Big old crazy bing bongs.
After you're out of the Mormon church, go ahead. Have at it.
Strap them on, man. It's more man.
It is. But now you're more woman, right? But Chad Daybell, he was like, weirdly, the way she talked about it, it finally nailed something in the head for me.
He was so pompous. He thought that he was so cool.
And the worst thing ever was that when he pulled into Rexburg with sad Tammy Daybell in tow. Yeah, when he's here for the new Jerusalem.
Oh, yeah. When he showed up, the worst part was that everybody loved it.

Yeah.

They became, like, very popular.

Yeah, I said that last episode.

And they keep walking around and telling other people how their land is eventually going to be theirs.

That is also wild, to go into somebody's house and be like—

In Idaho it lit, no less.

Oh, yeah, and they're like, oh, yeah, all of this we'll be in this year for the... That'll be for the lazy river in the post-apocalypse.
And they're like, what? But most of the people are like, yep, yeah, oh, yeah, see you too, Chad. Well, that's because he looks like a peeled potato.
Yeah. Yeah, who's going to take him seriously? He's never going to get this off the ground.
I do think there was some of that being like, ah, it's fun for now. Yeah, and almost like a little bit of Mormon politeness as well.
Like, where it's like, I'm not going to tell this guy to fuck off. Just like, yes, encourage him, smile, and just let it go.
You also joke. We talked a little bit about this.
I'm not joking. I'm being 100% serious.
Mormon politeness is a weapon. Yeah.
Much like their arrogance. Just like Southern Charms.
Their arrogance is what is going to kill this family. Yeah.
Now, we spent the majority of the last episode telling the life story of Chad Daybell. And while his life story is extremely interesting, it's pretty damn tame for the most part because of Chad's extreme Mormon demeanor.
Extreme Mormon! Line, line Mormon. Yeah.
But, you know, Chad, he didn't really go off the rails completely until he met Lori Vallow. So today, we'll be covering the story of the person who pushed Chad over the edge.
A story filled with death, sex, betrayal, religion, and lies. Hee hee hee.
This is the life lived by everyone's favorite Idahoan, Lori Vallow. But Lori is only part of the picture here.
As we cover her, we'll also be covering her family in detail, because none of us would have ever known Lori Vallow's name had it not been for the influence of her parents. And conversely, the influence Lori was able to exert on other members of her family.
Like Patrick Schwarzenegger. Yeah.
Particularly, we're going to be covering Lori's brother, Alex Cox, who would in time become directly responsible for two attempted murders and three actual murders. Alex was just as, if not more, psychopathic than Lori Vallow herself.
And that's not even to mention the fact that Alex was also an open mic stand-up comedian. And which is worse? His credits include killing men, girls, and boys.
Please welcome to the stage, Alex Cox! Thank you, thank you. Thank you, everybody.
Kill my sister's kids, please. If you could.
Anybody? I'm just so lazy. Anybody here ever kill a man in fake self-defense for their sister and then she doesn't even have the good grace to sleep with you?

No worries. Still hard thinking about it.
Anyways, those Utah Jazz, more like the Utah As. We'll take you make sure to hit your waitress, folks.
So Lori Vallow

Came into this world as Lori Cox

In Loma Linda, California On June 26, 1973 The fourth of five children Born to two massive Mormon Pains in the ass Named Janice and Barry Cox Barry Cox is truly Extreme Mormon This is the most extreme Mormon that you could meet. This triple X.
Also, the horniest name of all time, Barry Cox. Oh, yeah.
I didn't even get it. Yeah, Barry Cox.
And guess what? He might have a bit of the fritzel in him as well. Oh, really? Yeah, just name.
He truly was. He put the cocks in his family.
See, unlike Chad Daybell's family, Lori's brood was far more relaxed when it came to mixing the secular world with the Mormon world. Janice Cox, Lori's mother, she wore high heels, tight leopard skin pants, short tight tops.
She loved to bleach blonde her hair. And Lori's father, Barry, he was a gambler who liked to sometimes bring Lori along as a good luck charm.
In the doc, Lori looks like a fucking iguana with a wig on. Oh, you're talking about Janice? Janice.
Yeah. Janice, yeah.
Oh, God, yes. Janice is burnt.
She looks like... I saw her lick her eyeball once.
You know when somebody looks like their sins? Yeah. You know, like they look like the thing that they did bad? That's like what she did.
Because she really is. She's like a little like...
She's a Stephen King character. Yes.
Yes. But, you know, they were the fun family.
Yeah. They were considered the fun Mormon group because her cousin Megan went to go stay with them several times.
And she said Barry Cox took them all to see Rambo and she said obviously in the Mormon community that's an extreme big no-no but Barry Cox overrated by being like that's the kind of way we're going to be living soon in the forest fighting the police one by one but he was ready to go and he loved prostitutes man? Oh, yeah. I didn't know that about him.
I loved them. I love them because it's not that you pay them to come and it's not that you pay them to leave.
You pay them to touch. That's the key.
And they don't come home with you. You're right.
Well, Barry and Janice Cox were also big fans of Hawaii. And they'd often abandon their children for weeks at a time for gambling trips out to the islands.
Who the fuck goes to Hawaii to gamble? It doesn't... I didn't even know you could gamble in Hawaii.
Apparently you can. I guess if you go on like a cruise ship or something.
I think maybe in Honolulu. Also, there is a giant Mormon stronghold in Hawaii as well.
Extremely so, and we're going to get to that later. But when Lori's parents went to Hawaii, they would leave Lori's eldest sister at home to take care of Lori and their other siblings.

As such, Barry and Janice were always somewhat on the outs with the LDS church, subscribing to the beliefs, but never really fitting in with the establishment.

For example, Barry once showed up at a church function after a particularly good trip to Hawaii and screamed aloha at the congregation. Aloha! Shake my hand! Shake my hand! Aloha! Shake my hand! I want to shake his hand! Come here, I want to shake your hand! Aloha! It's goodbye and aloha! He expected everyone in this Mormon congregation to shout aloha back, but he was of course met with total silence.

Do you even understand that the national dance of Hawaii involves hips and tits? Do you know? But it's still sacred to the crabs. Aloha! Well, as far as the Cox children went,

most LDS members from their origin point in California

claim that they barely remember Barry and Janice's kids. The siblings were also thought to be strange and off-putting by their peers, to the point where their house was a near-constant target for a good old-fashioned toilet papering.
Well, they already looked like a flaming pile of... Fuck shit was the ultimate Mormon kid, like, naughty thing.
Yeah, that was the big rebellion was TPing. Yeah.
Now, when you're talking childhoods, Lori Vallow's is a special case in the pantheon of true crime. There are no stories of extreme childhood abuse like you'd get with other psychopaths, nor do you really see anything in her childhood behavior that would give any indication that she'd eventually do what she did.
In fact, the Cox family was wealthy when Lori was said to be a spoiled child who was given anything she wanted. The hitch in Lori's childhood, however, was that there was somewhat of a subconscious battle between her parents for who would be the bigger influence.
But it must be said that both influences were absolutely fucking terrible. Yep.
same image. See, Lori was somewhat of a chubby kid, so when she was in sixth grade, her mother put her on a strict diet so Lori could be put on the cheerleader track.
And when Janice Cox was the coach for Lori's childhood softball team, Janice would make fun of Lori's weight in front of the other girls. As such, by the time Lori was in high school, she had finally met her mother's expectations.
She had indeed lost weight, and she had indeed become a cheerleader. She kind of morphed herself into a sort of like friendly and popular Barbie doll type.
It's fucked up because softball is like the one sport fat people can play. It's really true because I was always taught as a chubby baseball player that you got to get in front of the ball.
You got to and that's the only thing that counts. You got to block the ball with your body.
Doesn't matter if you use the glove or not. You just got to stop to stop the ball.
And that requires extra mass. And Jackie also was a softball player, and a lot of the girls were of that persuasion as well.
Sure. And there's nothing to do about that, okay? It's a sport.
You've got to build up the muscle. Fat turns into muscle if you work it, right? That's what my father told me.
My father told me, you're fat, son, and that means you're strong naturally. And you've got to use it.
That's how we talk. Yeah, my father also told me I was big and I should beat up people.
That is literally what he said. And Janice, she did the thing.
I was small and disappointing. You're not like your brothers.
Here's a spiral notebook. But Janice taught them all the trick of, which I also thought was real and then i found out that apparently it's is a massive eating disorder where she's like yeah lori you never have to eat anything you wanted at all you don't have to swallow it you just chew it lori you chew it and you spit it out j Jesus Christ.
Yeah, that's what she did.

So she would full,

and she also,

because it's Mormon,

you have to keep up all appearances.

So again,

if you're at any potluck or anything,

you got to heat that plate up.

So it would just be filled with chewed food,

but it would be at the end of the meal.

Oh, God.

What a horrible family.

Oh, that I go and I leave it for the birds.

Get out. They like it.
Laurie's not a natural surprise surprise. Well, okay, bitch.
She does look like a natural two-tone. She began wearing skimpy clothes.
And soon enough, she'd taken a non-Mormon bad boy as her boyfriend. Oh, yeah.
After graduating, Lori moved in with her high school sweetheart sweetheart and the two of them were married in las vegas by 1992 after less than a year though lori was divorced following allegations that her husband abused her this made her high school beau the first of three divorces and five marriages that lori would have over the course of her life if i ever have a second marriage the, the only way to be with somebody like that is that they have to have, like,

I say three times the marriages you've already had

and several attempted homicides.

Because that's how you know somebody's got stories.

Because, you know, after a while...

You're interesting.

Wow.

Oh, cool. Yeah, say another one.

Lori, however, would not be the only one in her family

to marry and divorce young. Her older brother, Alex, also married and divorced his high school sweetheart.
But that wasn't the only thing Lori and Alex had in common. See, Lori and Alex's relationship was what you'd call too close.
Supposedly, Lori told her junior high best friend that Alex had made sexual moves on Lori when they were kids. But by the time Lori was a little

older, it seemed like Lori

had decided she was into it.

Maybe.

From what Alex's

first wife said, Alex would quite

often talk about how hot his

sister was. It's just science.

It's just hot girl science. It's not about

being subjective. Yeah, I mean, she's

related to me. Yeah, but that's the difference is that, that's in end.
That's just what's kind of legally keeping me from being inside of her. But otherwise, objectively, of course, I'd fuck her mouth and I'd play with her butt.
This was in addition to frequently groping Lori. And this was with Lori's permission.
But the worst was when Alex would sometimes lift Lori by her waist and put her in his lap, and Lori would respond by enthusiastically bouncing up and down on her brother's crotch. See, that's what Eddie missed out on, on being a single child and being an only child, is that it's just so much fun to play Clydesdale with all your brothers and sisters.
You guys, you used to play the earthworm game with your brothers, right, where you used to crawl between their legs, then they'd ride you around, right? You would do that. So you and Jackie, what did you guys, you played like the elephant game.
Was that what it was called? Like where she would grab your penis, right? It's not sexual. It's not sexual.
Pull it down to see how long the trunk could go. It's familiar.
Take the balls and you pull them out so they're ears. We were close, okay? And some people are jealous are jealous of that scenario.
And just because I was an only child didn't mean I didn't have this relationship with my bishop. Yeah, I know.
That's what's so nice. That's what the church is really great for.
It helps fill in those gaps. You're a fucking asshole.
You know, the family, too, is funny. Because I said this to you as a little allegorical thought in mind.
But in the beginning, so like Lori, you hear the story about how her cousin and her went on a double date. And this is before everybody really knew that she was already kind of sleeping around.
She wanted to make out with her boyfriend. They went joyriding all night.
And one of the big famous stories, I guess, of her childhood was that they saw a cat going going across the street and her boyfriend was laughing and trying to get it. And then they ran over the cat.
Right. And Megan started crying and shit.
And they stopped the car and double backed over it to kill it, make sure it was dead. And Lori was laughing and all of this shit.
And this image hit in my mind of Laura Palmer. Yeah.
Like, this is literally the beginning of this cycle cycle she's living a double life because mormonism is forcing all people within the religion to live a double life but actually in the end she was bob all along yes is it bad for mormons to kill cats because probably doesn't seem like it's against their beliefs i'm gonna look it up i mean do you really know any religion specifically killing cats is forbidden? Yeah, I don't think so. So go ahead, buddy.
Go ahead. Or probably Jewish because it's not kosher.
According to the super old man that looks like he's made out of frozen cum, he says that they're supposed to respect animals. Okay.
All right. Okay, good.
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Restrictions apply. Now, after Lori's first divorce, she moved to Austin, Texas to join her oldest brother, Adam.
But while Laurie got a nice Mormon job as a hairstylist, Adam had delved fully into the secular world

And had gotten a job as a shock jock radio DJ using the name Bo Nasty on KHFI FM Oh that's awesome I really like that Bo Nasty Interestingly though Lori's, Adam, and this is different from Alex. This is not the open mic guy.
Okay. Adam would actually be the first member of the Cox family to be responsible for the death of another person.
Because in 2007, Adam Cox was one of three morning zoo radio DJs who hosted a stunt infamous in the radio world called Hold Your Wee

for a wee.

Keep on holding that urine. I can't see that

yellow pearl come out of the top of that

little snake you got there.

Or you're not going to get the wee.

We all love wee tennis.

Hold that pee.

It's true, though.

No, this is absolutely true.

So what happened?

You could die from that?

Yes, you can.

Well, during the on-air contest,

18 people drank as much water as they could,

as fast as they could,

and tried to see who could go the longest

without urinating or vomiting.

And the grand prize was a brand new Nintendo Wii,

which was brand new at the time and quite rare.

And it sold out everywhere.

Yeah.

And, you know, and a lot of these people, these 18 people, a lot of these were like parents trying to get a wee for their kids. Yeah.
But drinking a large amount of water in a short period of time can cause acute water intoxication, which is a fatal condition. And one of the contestants, tragically, the runner up.
Man! I know. She didn't win? She didn't win.
No. And she actually died hours after she lost the contest.
That's what they mean by second place is first loser. Hold on.
So, did she lose because she died? No. No, she lost because she wasn't able to hold the water longest.
And she peed and she still died? She still died, yeah. Man.
That other guy could drink a drink a lot of water. Yeah, that other guy's like, how fucking tough is my dick? But before you say this is an innocent prank gone wrong, Adam Cox and the other DJs, during the contest, they discussed a frat boy who had died doing this same stunt, I think like a year or two earlier.
And a nurse actually called the station during the contest to tell them if these people do this, they will die. Adam and the other DJs, however, said on air that they were well aware that these people could die.
You have to do it in the voice, though. Oh, we're well aware.
Oh, we are well aware that these people could die here on KHFIFM. Get in every Monday morning.
We're going to be guaranteeing that there's going to be one person dying every single week. Get the let out.
Bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam, bam. Welcome our new Get the Let Out competition where we shoot you in the head and see if you survive.
And tomorrow's Tuesday, and that's our poo for Tuesday. Hold your poo.
Hold your poo. Poo for Tuesday.
We're going to see if these people can eat as much feces as human being possible, and we're going to see just who is going to be the champion and who's going to win two tickets to Seven Mary Three. I could have guessed it.
It's Stinky Pete. That's enough.
You've won too many contests now. But yeah yeah they said they were well aware these people could die but no they weren't worried about it because the contestants had all signed waivers and they even took the opportunity to make jokes about the eventual victim's distended belly while she was obviously in distress so like oh wow she looks like she's a three- there.
What do you think about that, Adam? I hope that she can get some kind of water-based abortion. I'm sorry I ain't been getting a letter from my producer here.
I'm off the air. They said one more abortion comment and you're out of here, Adam.
All right. You knew about it.
You got the memo. I guess I won't talk about what I know from about the program director, but Adam and nine other employees were fired after the death.
And while Adam never faced criminal charges, he still maintains that he did nothing wrong. Adam Cox actually tried the Nuremberg defense.
He said he was just following orders and he actually saw himself as the victim here. But really, all this is just to prove that just about everyone in the Cox family, not just Lori, is absolutely fucking awful.
They are a bad set of fuckers. Adam does sort of get lifted up as the good one.
Yeah, because he wasn't a direct murderer.

If that's the bar, you're the one sibling that either was, well, Stacy.

I don't know what happened with Stacy, but it's like this whole, that's all, you ought

to be better than.

Yeah, well, he did show up to the wake with a wee.

This is just so that the body has something to play while it's resting in hell.

Heaven. Heaven.
Heaven. Well, you know, it depends while it's resting in hell.
Heaven.

Heaven.

Heaven.

Heaven.

Well, you know, it depends if it was Mormon or not.

That's true.

Now, from what one of Lori's friends from her younger days said, Lori was always unsatisfied with her life and was constantly on the lookout for something to fill the void.

I will not live a life I do not deserve.

It would, however, take a while for Lori to realize that her mother's plan for her life was not going to do the trick. Now, Lori certainly tried her mother's way of existing in the world for many years, a life of marriage, kids, diets, Hawaiian vacations, and shopping.
But in the end, Lori found that her father lived life in a far more satisfying way, as Barry Cox lived a very fundamentalist Mormon life of arrogance, selfishness, and extreme delusion. Extreme Mormon activity! You, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, extreme Mormon! I will not have a cup of coffee! I will kill your child! Yeah, that's the problem with being too extreme in the Mormon world.
No energy drink sponsorships. None.
None. No, actually, they can't have energy drinks.
It's really just coffee. So you can have caffeine and gory and all, but it's coffee that's evil.
This is the thing about the... I thought Coca-Cola was bad.
Yeah, you can't have sodas. You can't have soda.
You absolutely can. You can have caffeine.
I've got many emails about this. You absolutely can.
It is just coffee. That's how stupid it is, Marcus.
That's what I mean. It's fucking arbitrary.
It's fake. The whole thing is fucking fake.
As soon as you hear a series of ornate rules from a thousand years ago, it's not fucking real. Well, the rules about coffee and tobacco, if I remember correctly from our Mormon series, I believe that came as a revelation because it was either one of Joseph Smith's wives or one of Brigham Young's wives who didn't like people drinking coffee and didn't like people smoking in her house.
Yes. So she complained and complained and complained until there was a revelation.
It's like, ah, God told me we can't have coffee and fucking cigarettes in here anymore.

Yeah.

And it's continued to this day. That is very much the arbitrary nature of Mormon revelations.
Oh, I thought they didn't want coffee because they just liked having sex with people while they were asleep. Is that wrong? No.
See, while Chad Daybell was more influenced by the near-death experience slash end-time side of fringe Mormonism, Lori Vallow came from a household deeply steeped in a particularly Mormon flavor of right-wing extremism that informed the way Lori's father lived his entire life. But perhaps what most influenced Laurie's idea that she could bend the world to her will

and make things true just by saying them out loud

was the fact that her father was also that most egotistical and fantastical of American creations.

Barry Cox was a sovereign citizen.

I'm a private nation.

I am the governor of a private continent.

I am not a sovereign citizen. That is a reduction of my power.
And he has been waging an ongoing one-man war against the IRS since the 80s. I throw a calculator into a river every day.
And so let's spend a little bit of time on Barry's sovereign citizenship and the particularly Mormon brand of right-wing extremism he subscribed to. Because it really is these two things together that explain the incredible arrogance and the magical thinking that led Lori Vallow down her eventual path.
Now, a sovereign citizen is basically a person who doesn't want to pay taxes. But they justify it by saying that the United States government is illegitimate, and they therefore claim that they are not subject to any government statutes unless they consent to them personally.
You're also leaving out the people that have expired licenses that they don't want to complete, expired registrations that they don't want to complete, people that don't want to deal with child... Oh, government statutes.
Jenny, any form of what they believe to be arbitrary government statutes like the regulations that keep us

safe on the roads. Basically, anything

that requires an errand, they don't

like. They don't want to do it.
They don't want to run errands.

That keeps them from drinking while driving.

They're not a fan of.

And guess what? But you know what? Much like an NDA,

no law can really keep you from

drinking and driving. You can still express

that liberty yourself with just

your hands and beer in your mouth.

And just remember that that's the last thing they can take

Thank you. no law can really keep you from drinking and driving, you can still express that liberty yourself with just your hands and beer in your mouth.
And just remember that that's the last thing they can take from us until the police shoot you in the head. Well, sovereign citizenship is actually a relatively new concept, and its origins lie in a conspiracy-focused white supremacist movement from the 60s called Posse Comitatus.
Posse Comitatus began as a reaction to the civil rights movement,

which they saw as government overreach and proof that America as they knew it was dead.

Consequently, the movement was mostly focused on not paying state or federal taxes because they believed the government had been taken over by the Jews.

Hello.

You always pointed him.

I think JFK was fucking president at the time. That's fine.
It's already, you know, they're all Protestants. So it's fine.
Yeah. See, this movement subscribed to the Christian identity belief that Jewish people are the descendants of Satan and that white Europeans are the real lost tribes of Israel, the ones who will one day build, hint, hint, a new Jerusalem.
If this sounds familiar, this is pretty much the same thing Chad Daybell believed. Just substitute white for Mormon, and it's the same thing.
It's the same thing anyway. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the religion that didn't let black people in until 1978.
Yeah, now they always have, they'll always have one. Naomi Perogen, a really funny comedian, said that bit the other day.
It's like she always lasers in on the one black person that is in every one of these scenarios and always like, how did you get there? Yeah. And, you know, it's not a coincidence that the Christian identity movement is big in Idaho, which is where Chad Daybell, of course, decided to build his own New Jerusalem.
Now, the Posse Comitatus movement faded in the 80s after a member got

into an inevitable shootout with federal law enforcement. Happens quite a bit with these guys.
But Barry Cox, Lori Vallow's father, nevertheless joined this highly racist right-wing movement and declared himself a sovereign citizen that same decade. I saw a group of people, delusional, racist

anti-government

and my first thought was

finally decade. I saw a group of people, delusional, racist, anti-government, and my first thought was, finally, my people.
But just as Barry's daughter Lori is now defending herself in court for her second murder trial, Barry Cox took one law class and believed that he could, acting as his own attorney, validly argue in court against the United States government

that he had no tax liability.

Therefore, he stopped paying taxes in the 1980s.

So how'd that work out?

Badly. We're going to get to that here in a bit.

Let's just say I'm going to do, according to Lee,

I'm looking at several of these old statutes here,

like not going to give it.

I saw this is called go fuck yourself versus suck my dick.

Thank you. several of these old statutes here, like, not gonna give it.
I saw this is called Go Fuck Yourself versus Suck My Dick, chapter 9 through 14 I'm going to reference, where I'm gonna say, you can take my tax money, good sir, and shove it in my own cock and balls. Fuck you, you fucking pieces of shit.
That's all software citizens do. Yeah.

Well, more punctuation. You're right.
Well, eventually, Barry also became an author who released his very own e-book in 2019 called How the American Public Can Dismantle the IRS. Here's the IRS's address.
Get a pickaxe. All you have to do is start from the bottom.
Eventually, the top of will topple. Well, over 421 indecipherable pages.
Barry mixes all the modern conspiracy keywords like cabal, deep state, and Satanism with passages from both the Bible and the Book of Mormon. And all this is to argue about why paying taxes makes you what else? Here's another keyword.
A zombie. Oh, shit.
The Z word. First time we're going to hear it today.
I fucking hate when people suck so much that make you root for the IRS. Isn't that sad? Yeah, it is sad.
It is sad. Yeah, the NSA are suffering right now.
They're really scared for their jobs. And honestly, it's just nice to be here as an open member of the NSA to say thanks again, guys.
And go Russia. We're coming for you, America.
Yeah, you've gone from shill to straight up member, right? That's amazing. I'm out now, dude.
It's really good. I'm proud of you.
It feels good. Yeah, I don't have to keep the secret anymore.
It's been driving me nuts for years. It's so nice to finally just be proud.
You got your espionage badge, right? Yes. Yes.
Yes. You'll see.
This fable is known as the White Horse Prophecy, and it is key to the understanding of this entire story to know that Lori Vallow was raised believing that everything I'm about to say is 100% the truth. Now, the White Horse Prophecy is a sort of Mormon urban legend, a piece of apocrypha not officially recognized by the LDS church as canon.
But it is said to be a prophecy made by none other than Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism. Now, the story goes that Joseph Smith revealed this prophecy to only one man.
This man claimed that Smith told him that the Mormon people will eventually go to the Rocky Mountains, where they will establish a society of great and mighty people. These people will collectively be known as the White Horse of Peace and Safety.
Joseph Smith continued the prophecy, saying that the enemies of the Mormon people, i.e. the United States government, would continue to impose their will on the Mormon people by making, quote-unquote unquote obnoxious laws in order to destroy the white horse of peace and safety.
Laws like no polygamy and no more marrying underage girls. How am I supposed to get a girl? Only girls under 13 understand me.
Mormons are so impatient. Just wait for them to be old.
No, that's the worst Eddie because then they're old. Yeah.
And you've missed the chance to indoctrinate them and train them and mold them to be exactly what you want. You also don't get to experience their sweet, precious bud of youth.
Hey, white horse, nay means nay. Now, to protect the white horse, and just, it's important to know, the white horse is the Mormon people.
It's like like imagine a trojan horse and all the mormon people are inside kind of okay yeah smith said that the mormons must continue to petition congress constantly but congress will refuse to give mormons their rights and will instead govern them from the outside now this might sound like the mormons wanted to break away from the united states yeah marcus but they actually very much want to be a part of our country. They kind of have a have your cake and eat it too type of situation going on.
I think they want to own the bakery, Marcus. Yes, I think so too.
Basically, the Mormons were hiding behind the concept of religious freedom in order to do whatever they wanted to do. Mormons are therefore big proponents of the Constitution because the Freedom of Religion Clause in the First Amendment works as a sort of loophole for all the nefarious shit they get up to.
According to them, thinking that if you make it a religious right, then it should be protected by those laws. So you could make having a child bride a religious right.
You could make killing people because they're unsavable a right. You can make these things because, and then their real goal, in the end, let's face it, their real goal is total subjugation of all of us and a complete theocracy of the United States of America.
But we're not there yet. Mainly just because we're just, everybody really likes tits.
And I really think that's the main thing keeping us from a full theocracy is that we really like tits and we like pussy and we like dicks and we like having a good time with like Budweiser commercials.

Like we like it too much.

Yeah. And that's the problem.

That's what the Mormons don't understand.

Well, and I also think that the Mormons, their goal for the rest of us is not subjugation, but straight up murder.

Oh, they very much just like all of us to be dead.

Well, the Mormon idea is they'll just close their eyes and have a peaceful sleep and wake up and we'll be gone and not have to really deal with the fact that we all were murdered by God. So they're so lazy they won't even kill us themselves? Oh, they still do.
That's why we have Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell. That's a change.
Be the change you want to see. But didn't they just kill their own? Yeah, well, that was a beginning.
That was a start. They stopped being their own because they became zombies.
Now, according to the White Horse Prophecy, the Mormons would live to see a day sometime in the future in which the Constitution would be nearly destroyed, that it would, quote, hang like a thread as fine as silk fiber. And by the way, hanging by a thread, that's a Mormon dog whistle.
If you hear someone say, this country is hanging by a thread, that usually means they're a follower of the White Horse Prophecy. It's a little code so people know what you're talking about.
Glenn Beck used to say it all the time. Glenn Beck, big Mormon.
It's really, it's true. Converted.
Like, when you click these things, it's completely real. All of these are like, the hanging by a thread thing, you think that that's silly until you start to hear prophets say it.
Yeah. They talk about it.
They use it as a term. We had senators say it.
Orrin Hatch used to say it. Senator Orrin Hatch out of Utah used to say, hanging by a thread all the time.
See, when I hear something's hanging by a thread, my instinct is to, like, help it. The way they think to help it is to tear the thread.
Well, once the Constitution... Well, kind of, sort of.
Well, eventually. Well, once the Constitution is, quote, hanging by a thread, that would be a signal for the Mormons, a.k.a.
the White Horse of Peace and Safety, to rise up and save the United States from the rest of us sinners. Save the United States.
Most importantly, though, the rising up of the White Horse. You can't do air quotes on fucking radio.
I do. I do.
That's for me. The majority of the people who consume the show are listening to it in an audio-only format.
This is for me. If you want to know what Henry's air quoting, please join the Patreon and watch more video content.
Video episodes of every single episode of the last podcast on the left. But most importantly, though, the rising up of the white horse would be a sign that Armageddon was imminent, as the white horse is what else but a direct reference to the four horsemen of the apocalypse from the book of Revelation.
Behold, a pale horse and all that. But that's all to say that the white horse prophecy directly ties the policies of the United States government to the end of the world.
And it makes the Mormons the central characters in both the end times and in the story of America at large.

And the goal is to bring the end of the world here. They want it.
They're really excited for

it because the tribulations are going to kill all of us and then they get to go live in their

Mormon paradise. If the four horsemen ever came to America, they'd have to race in the Kentucky

Derby. That would be what a delight, what a get.
And it's pestilence by a nose. And the nose has fallen off.
Enjoy your mint juleps, everybody. We'll be your last one.
Now, Lori Vallow grew up believing that the White Horse Prophecy was totally real, and that belief only got stronger throughout her life. See, the White Horse Prophecy creates a sort of alternate universe for Mormonism's more fringe members to live within, a world where Mormons are exceptional beings who sort of but don't really have to live by the same rules as the rest of us.
In addition to the White Horse Prophecy, Lori Vallow was also raised with the narcissistic delusion of sovereign citizenship, a world of magical thinking where she can live by her own rules and beliefs simply by stubbornly forging ahead. This is also a world of right-wing extremism, because while the followers of the White Horse Prophecy say they want to protect the Constitution, it's really the amendments that they have a big problem with.
Which is like half the Constitution. It's a lot of it.
For them, the abolition of slavery, the implementation of federal income tax, and giving the women the right to vote, those were the real assaults on the Constitution. And the less conservative America gets, the more these people freak out in increasingly destructive and dangerous ways.
Like, say, I don't know, killing your own children. But hey, the killing of their own children Was supposed to be for all of our good Marcus And that was in the original constitution right? Yeah kill a child Yeah if you want to vote kill a child That's a great way to do it I feel like the only way you should be able to vote Is if you have received an abortion I think those are the only people who should vote Okay I thought you meant like you had to bring like a child's corpse to the polling booth.

If you can, yeah.

Please.

Like that's going to be one of the big, that's going to be one of the big new changes.

No, I've paid for an abortion that had nothing to do with me.

Does that make, I can vote?

Was it for fun?

No, it was for one of my-

Did you just hang out outside of the clinic?

Is this how you met Julie?

Is this how you meet women? Back in the day, one of my cooks knocked up a waitress, and I needed them both at work. You're disgusting.
You're literally Tom Harrison. That's disgusting, Eddie.
You did it for the most evil reasons. That's like William Randolph Hearst.
Yeah. Sorry.
Just get it done and be here by 4.30. Wrap it up, all right? There's no time for crying.
All right. We'll all once just to make, we'll get past this.
Just listen to Ben Fold's brick one time just for the faith because we'll get through this once. I put the petty in petty cash.
Also, Barry Cox believed in the concept of the lower 95. Yeah.
That was a thing that he used to say all the time. What's that mean? So he said that they were in the top 5% of humankind.
The whole Cox family. Lori, Adam, Alex, all of them.
They were better than everybody. They were powerful.
They were hotter, more fashionable. They were better than everybody.
Oh, that's why Barry only slept with them. Yes.
Exactly. Why would you go out and get steak when you have hamburger at home? He literally is a...
But he would say that all the time. Anybody did something dumb in front of him, he would always be like, that's the lower 95 for you.
That was what he'd say. And so he kind of also this idea that there are expendables here.
But again, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. And let's rejoin Lori Vallow in the mid 90s in Austin, Texas.
Now, within a few years, Lori had gotten together with the man who would become her second husband. And in April of 1996, she gave birth to her first son, Colby.
As it was with her first husband, Lori also claimed that her second was abusive, saying that he physically and drunkenly assaulted her multiple times, even going so far as to threaten to kill her when she was pregnant, which he very well may have. But in the end, Lori's second marriage was only a little longer than the first, and she was divorced again by 1998.
Lori, however, wasn't the only person in the Cox family having troubles, as it seems like the Coxes were in a near constant state of crisis throughout the mid to late 90s. They love drama.
Yes. The Coxes love drama and everybody around them.
I also feel like I'm just going to go out and say a big old blanket statement. Mormons love drama.
Yeah. Because their lives are fucking boring.
They have a very popular reality show. Yeah.
Very fucking true. Yeah.
The easiest way to inject drama into your life is polygamy. And fucking.
Yeah. Just literally fucking.
And these guys all would fuck, inner fuck. The ward drama sounds so fucking exhausting and so stupid.
and the way that they talk about their wards as if they were mystically placed in Rexburg. Oh, you were mystically placed in Clarkston, Idaho.
The only people that were mystically placed in our Clarkson, Idaho were the fucking Robbins, like literally the birds. You are not, you just were born there.
Yeah. And then they're like, well, it's our ward, so we have to stay here.
And so they all have to inter-fight and take it super seriously and everybody's upped their own fucking ass. Now, where do the Mormons stand on divorce? Cannot be divorced.
That's why they kill so many of their wives. That's why they kill them.
It's because the stakes are so high. Those are the things, too.
Remember is that, that's also also what's horrible is that your entire family lives in the ward. That's where your home is.
It's the only thing you've ever known. The religious family that you've surrounded by, that's the only group you've ever known.
And every single one of these sins, every single one of them involves some form of excommunication slash extreme punishment slash extreme way to get your penance. I read a book called The Miracle of Forgiveness, which is a horrendous book, which is the one of the things.
But let's not get too far off. I'm sorry.
Basically, they say that homosexuality is bestiality, and it's just a black mark on the whole thing. Well, you are an animal.
I'll tear you up. Excuse me.
Let me get my lube. I just have my anal jelly here waiting for me anytime I need it.
Swiss Navy brand with clove oil. There's nothing better and there's nothing slipperier than a sailor from Switzerland.
You want to poke some holes in a man, join the Swiss Navy. We didn't get paid for this.
Someone just sent this in the mail. Yeah, someone sent us a big, extra-large

bottle of Swiss Navy anal

lube. Yes, they sent it in the mail.

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Let's get into some of the dramas of the Cox family in the mid to late 90s. First, Lori's brother Alex got excommunicated from the LDS church after his ex-wife made claims of sexual promiscuity, which put Alex on the ounce with the Mormon establishment for good.
And I think how Lori Vallow and Alex got around this, correct me if I'm wrong, how they got around divorce is that until Chad Daybell, every man that Lori Vallow married was a non-Mormon. Like they were all, they all, not all of them did, most of them converted, but not all.
So I think because she was not married within the church and was not like sealed within the church to another like lifelong Mormon,

there's all kinds of fucking loopholes and, you know, ways around it.

And it's not like, you know, they're in a sort of like FLDS community, like a fundamentalist community where, you know, they could be murdered for doing something like divorce.

They're kind of living with one foot in the secular world and one foot in the Mormon world. So there's no Mormon chapels in Vegas.
There is. There is.
Really? Oh, yeah. There must be a temple in Nevada.
Yeah. There's definitely a temple somewhere in there.
Well, a temple, I'm saying like an all-night wedding chapel. They don't do it like that.
No. They don't do it like that.
I mean, I wish it'd be fun. But Lori Vallow did get married in Vegas twice.
But she's, I also feel like with Lori specifically, see Mormons again, they're so obsessed with their parents and they're so obsessed with it that like I think sometimes they let people slide that are really quote unquote good looking Mormons. Could be.
Well, around the same time that Alex was excommunicated, Lori's older sister Stacy was also going through a divorce In addition to a custody battle with her husband And a rapidly deteriorating mental state And that mental state was incurred by growing up In what her husband called the psychological hornet's nest That was the Cox family Well concerning Stacy Cox Because of Janice's constant fat shaming of her children Stacy developed an eating an eating disorder, and had declared after having her only child that all food was poison. As a result of Stacey's delusion and the lifestyle that went with it, her daughter's teeth grew in without enamel because of a lack of calcium, and her husband would be given custody because of Stacey's instability and neglect.
But as we'll see time and again, the Cox family does not take kindly to one of their own being crossed. At one point during the breakup, Barry Cox showed up at Stacey's husband's place of work.
He slammed him against a wall, screamed Mormon scripture into his face, and stuffed divorce papers down his shirt. The whole Stacey saga only ended when Stacey fell into a coma and died in May of 1998 at the age of 31, after years of being in and out of the hospital because of her eating disorder and because of complications from type 1 diabetes.
Type 1 diabetes, you need food. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. It's a major part of it.
It is. Yeah.
Yeah. It's the main part.
Yeah. Now, soon after Stacey's death, the government finally camery cox after years of so-called paper terrorism in which sovereign citizens like barry clog up the courts with frivolous lawsuits and endless paperwork barry was finally sentenced to a year in prison for tax evasion and was ordered to pay a quarter million in back taxes i do not have this money.
What happens if I do not have

the money available at any point in my natural life? I would like to have anybody who's ever not said that to a creditor to do it once. It's really fun.
You've done it. You taught me.
Sometimes you just, I used to pick it up and eventually be like, I have nothing. I remember one time talking to a credit card like debtor and I was like, so if I, if I pay you, I can't pay my rent or buy food.
But then I just have paid you. And they were like, exactly.
And I was like, conversation's over. Lori, however, was still attempting to live the life of her mother's world

because at 27 years old, Lori met and married her third husband,

a man 16 years her senior named Joe Ryan,

who converted to Mormonism for Lori.

Soon after his conversion, Lori was pregnant again,

and she gave birth to her daughter Tylee in 2002.

Tylee, of course, would be one of the two children that Lori would one day come to murder. Now, Lori's third husband, Joe Ryan, was said to be quick to anger, and the marriage fell apart fast.
He was again abusive, but instead of leaving her husband like she did the other two, Lori began to inch closer into the world of her father. She threw herself into Mormonism completely and got real weird with it real fast.
During the early 2000s, Lori could be found dancing by herself in an empty room filled with mirrors while listening to religious music, which Lori said was her form of meditation and her way of getting closer to God. Now that's a Laura Palmer scene right there if I ever fucking heard one.
Oh yeah, her just like Oh Jesus got your hands on my teeth Oh Jesus got your finger on my pussy It's too bad Instagram Live wasn't around yet Do you think, question, TikTok saves the kids or gets them to the grave faster? What do you think? Podcasting certainly didn't help. No, podcasting accelerated the whole thing.
Yeah, podcasting made it way worse. No, I think we're talking about a zero-sum thing here.
I don't think TikTok helps or hurts. But the thing about TikTok, you can see that she's hot.
Yeah, I guess so. Yeah.
Periscope. But she's not hot.
She's not that hot. She's not hot.
Keep calling her so hot. Well, just because it's in Idaho and she's standing next to Chad Daybell.
Yeah. Anyone looks hot when you're standing next to an uncooked pancake.
Like... A dollop of a man he is.
He's a dollop. Well, even stranger than the dancing was Lori's increasingly bizarre beliefs about the dead, such as her belief that her daughter Tylee was the reincarnation of Laurie's recently deceased sister Stacy.
Laurie also began edging into the more esoteric side of Mormonism, Daybell Territory, when she claimed that spirits from beyond the veil were giving her daily instructions on how to live every aspect of her life. Now, this really goes to show you, you never really know what the people you see on TV are thinking.
You never do. Because it was around this time that Lori Vallow appeared as a contestant on Wheel of Fortune.
She placed second and won over $17,000. She solved one puzzle, named four characters on the love boat.
I can't do it. Doc.
The captain, Gilligan. Mr.
Pete. Yeah, Mr.
Pete. Who's the guy that checks vaginas to see if they've been disturbed? Oh, Snapper Jake.
Yeah. Love Snapper Jake.
God, he's great. God, he was great.
I wonder if she got along with Vanna Whitehorse. Whoa.
That's a good burlesque name. You know, you joke about that,

but I would imagine that she saw some sort of sign in that,

in Vanna White's name.

You know, like she probably did.

These people see signs in everything.

They see their own worldview reflected back to them,

and, you know, Vanna White just has to deal with it

when she goes and shakes her hand.

Do you think that anyone ever met Pat Sajak,

and he was like, hi, I'm Pat Sajak,

and then they would be like, Jack. And then he decks him in the face.
Don't you fucking disrespect me. All right, I deal.
People come to me with nothing. You spin a wheel and walk away millionaires.
Yeah, that's the little known fact about Pat Sajak. Massive bare-knuckle boxer.
Oh, right. One of those, like, Irish guys with the upward fist.
That's how he got the job. It seems like Lori was enjoying the attention she was getting.
As a few months after being on wheel, she entered the Miss Hayes County Beauty Pageant and she won, which made her eligible for the Miss Texas Pageant. When Lori was interviewed by the judges, though, she made a statement that at the time was somewhat innocent, but in hindsight is fucking chilling.

When Lori Vallow was asked what made her tick, she said, quote,

Being a good mom is very important to me and a good wife and a good worker.

Being all those things together is not easy.

So basically, I'm a ticking time bomb.

I feel like

there's so many game show contestants

that have killed somebody.

A lot.

We talked about one like a month ago.

A few weeks ago.

It happens a fair amount.

You take any sample

from anything and there's going to be a fair amount of

murderers in it.

Plumbers.

Rob. He won't even give it up.
Well, of course, being a ticking time bomb, that's not a winning answer for the Miss Texas patch. No, it's frightening.
Now, because of the frequent physical abuse and some alleged sexual abuse committed by Lori's third husband, Lori filed for divorce from Joe Ryan in August of 2004 and engaged in a lengthy custody battle for her daughter, Tylee.

Now, Lori's son, Colby, did say years later,

he said it very clearly in the Netflix documentary,

that Joe Ryan was sexually abusive and physically abusive.

But Lori Vallow took these allegations to the next level

during the custody fight,

telling investigators that she would rather kill her children than give Ryan custody. But after multiple investigations found that not only had there been no sexual abuse, but that Lori had been coaching her kids to tell abuse stories, it was decreed that Joe and Lori share custody of Tylee when the two of them were finally divorced in 2005.
There is a very disturbing, like, line through, which is, obviously, we believe everybody. You want to believe people when they say they're getting abused, right? But Lori Vallow, you can't take away the end result of all this away from the way she treated people her whole life.
Yeah. She used people as tools, and she really did, I want to say, get a kick out of ruining people's lives.
She did it several times. It is not just within this context.
She used to lie. I guess that's what it is.
I'm steeped in all the other side stories about Lori. You start to see this whole picture that she really would turn people against each other all the time.
And she'd lie all the time. She was probably close to a pathological liar.
Everybody got a different story about what she was doing and who did what at all times. So at some point, I think that Lori is, I think bad things happen to her, but I also think she's massively full of shit.
So I think that you just, it throws doubt on all the stuff that she talks about. Well, I think, I mean, if you talk to Colby Ryan, you know, like his dad was not a nice man.
Yeah, he said clearly, like, he was physically abusive. He also said he was sexually abusive.
So I think she had a pattern. Like, I think she definitely, like, did have, like, three abusive men, like, in a row.
But her fourth husband, Charles Vallow, I don't know if she always made up stories about all these guys because she, you know, didn't do that with Charles. She did, though.
But not in the abuse way. She did.
She said that he molested Tylee. Did she say that? Yes.
He throws it around. She kept throwing it around.
And it's just like, when you drop it three, that's when it just gets to a point where now you're trying to hurt something. Like weaponizing.
You're weaponizing something. I don't know what it is, but you're doing something.
I don't know what the fuck it is. And again, if she didn't kill her kids, it'd be different.
Colby seems on the level, though, after watching the doc. Yeah, he does seem on the level, yeah.
He has a whole podcast where he talks about this. Yeah.
Well, not too long after her divorce, Lori filed for bankruptcy, owing three quarters of a million dollars to creditors, including, like father, like daughter, a hundred grand in back taxes. Wow, proud! Yeah.
All that was fixed, however, when Lori met her fourth husband, the long-suffering Charles Vallow. At 49 years old, Charles was another older man.
As such, he already had two sons of his own and had just divorced from his first wife when he met Lori. Described as tall and strikingly handsome, Charles Vallow seemed to just be, I don't know, normal dude, middle-of-the-road guy, a financial planner, earned about $250,000 a year.
But that big salary meant that Lori had solved her debt problems. And the two of them frequently joked about her being a gold digger.
Now I could see how people could make that assumption because Lori and Charles were married within just a few months of meeting each other. They'd like met in the fall of 2005, married in the spring of 2006.
By then, Lori Vallow had her fourth husband, whom she married in her second Vegas wedding. The fourth wedding is a Reno wedding.
Yeah. We've talked about this.
No, fourth wedding's Provo wedding. First wedding's always gotta be a big deal, obviously.
Second wedding, you should probably kind of keep quiet about it. I think the second wedding is the quietest one.
Third wedding is secretly, that's done inside of one of those places where you stop and you just get the form. And then I think fourth, you could do it again, Big, being like, no, this one.
I think the third one is the one when you make the big statement. I think that the third one has to be bigger than the first one because you've got to prove that you really love this one more than the other two.
The fourth one's Circa Circus. You're right.
That's it. I think that the third one has to be bigger than the first one because you've got to prove that you love that you really love this one more than the other two.
The fourth one's Circa Circus. You're right.
I'm sorry. I can't wait till my third one's officiated by a chimp.
How fun is this? How nice is this? You got the banana? You got the banana for the pastor? Charles Vallow's ex-wife more or less said that Charles could be a bit of a bastard.

But in the ex-wife's view, Lori was just as unstable.

It's still an ex-wife's point of view, unfortunately.

Yes.

The ex-wife never felt safe having her two sons around Lori,

and claimed that Lori would drug her kids with NyQuil and sleeping pills

just so she wouldn't have to deal with them.

Even so, Lori and Charles were exactly what each other wanted.

Charles Vallow wanted a young trophy wife, and as a 32-year-old beauty queen, Lori fit the bill. Charles, meanwhile, paid for Lori to go to Hawaii whenever she wanted, and she finally had a daddy who would succumb to her every whim.
Okay, you just made it jump. You know, you said it too, like, you notice what you just said? What? The idea that she'd make it a habit to drug the kids with NyQuil and sleeping pills? Yeah.
And how do you think they fucking Tylee and JJ went down in the beginning? I think that you can immediately see a line through. Oh, like a Casey Anthony Zanny the Nanny type thing? Yeah.
And I also think that their separation, I wouldn't even call them gold diggers because he's handsome. If he was big and fat, it's different.
Charles Vallow was handsome. I don't think Lori Vallow was necessarily a gold digger.
I think she just liked someone to take care of her. And Charles Vallow, by all accounts, truly loved Lori Vallow.
I mean, unfortunately, he truly loved Lori Vallow. And he was, you know, more or less a fine man.
Yeah, he wasn't like the best guy,

but he was alright.

He was just a guy. He was just a guy.

I think at the end of the day, that's what Charles Vallow

was just some fucking guy.

And as much as dudes love bomb, women love

bomb too. Why don't we go in there?

Because you'd be surprised

what a well-placed piece of lingerie

and a fucking 20-minute blowjob can do

to a man's psyche. It's like, I know it's ridiculous,

but it really can break a man down.

Now, life was good for Lori,

and Charles Vallow even enthusiastically

converted to the LDS church.

But while Lori could have just settled

into her new life,

it seems like she was addicted to the drama.

She very much had it out

for her ex-husband, Joe Ryan,

and in 2006, she made an official report that Ryan had sexually abused her children. Now again, detectives and social workers found no evidence of molestation.
And social worker reports noted that Lori appeared to be coaching Tylee to make accusations. But that was not the only thing the social workers noticed.
Lori Vallow was quite obviously feeding

her children fanatical Mormon dogma, in addition to telling them stories about ghosts being real. And she even told government officials that she consulted with a dead lawyer about her custody case when the spirit came to visit her in the night.
It's me, your representation, Abraham I'm Lincoln.

And I'm here to tell you, don't go out to see a play.

That's my first piece of advice. My second piece of advice is suck him while you got him because he's gay.
Yes, yes, I know I know, I'm well aware he was gay. Yeah, I'm sorry no but also, this is not really fringe Mormon dogma, man.

You know, like, I did not realize how— No, I said fanatical. I did not say fringe.
Is it crazy? I did not know that they actually literally believed in reincarnation. Well, it's—the reincarnation thing is—I looked this up, and it's a gray area where the church doesn't officially say that you are reincarnated, but you can take the idea of

pre-mortality. And it's a gray area where the church doesn't officially say that you are reincarnated,

but you can take the idea of premortality, which, you know, we're going to talk about

premortality a little bit later, but you can take this Mormon idea that you existed before

you were born, that you existed in the presence of the Heavenly Father before you were born,

and you return to the Heavenly Father.

And so some of these things can be interpreted by saying that you kind of go back and forth

between earth and heavenly father, even though it doesn't clearly say that. That's certainly how Chad Daybell

interpreted it, and that's definitely how Laurie Vallow interpreted it.

And they certainly don't believe that you just become dirt.

No.

No, no, no.

No, because that would be a waste.

Yeah, there's a lot of it, but with Mormonism, there's just a million ways to interpret everything. And every ward's different.
Yeah. But just like it happened when Barry Cox assaulted Stacy Cox's husband, there was something about the Cox family that inspired violence when one of them was seemingly threatened.
And it was around this time that Laurie's brother Alex stepped into the ring. But while Alex was definitely a psychopath, he was also an absolutely ridiculous person.

See, radio DJ Adam Cox was not the only member of the family to try his hand at entertainment.

By 2007, Alex Cox was living in Phoenix, Arizona, working a day job installing porta-potties.

But at night, he was also one of the worst open-mic stand-up comedians in town. God, in Phoenix.
I mean, imagine the worst open-mic stand-up in Phoenix. As per the memory of one of Alex's friends back in Phoenix, Alex was a bit of an impressionist.
Ran the gamut of impressions, both baffling and hacky. Not me! From cartoon characters like Bugs Bunny, Daffy

Duck, and Homer Simpson, to movie

icons like Hannibal Lecter

and weirdly Mrs. Doubtfire.

And everyone knows the best stand-up sets

are always repeated phrases

for movies you've seen. Yes!

And doing weird... Movies and TV shows.

That's the way to do it, because then people go,

Oh, yeah! Yeah.

I remember that! Try by fruiting! Yeah baby! Yeah baby! She's mine baby! That's Holden's bit. Alright don't steal that from you.
That's Holden's stolen bit. Can't steal the stealing.
But Alex's friend in Phoenix also said that Alex was always a little off mentally and very easy to manipulate. Particularly, this friend said that Alex was easily manipulated by his sister, Lori.
Yes. In a display that was described as both awkward and weird, this friend said that Lori would parade around Alex in a bikini, obviously trying to titillate him.
It's just nice to see all you other brothers look around. You don't got a sister built like that.
That's what I like. I look at her and stumbling around knowing that she's representing me everywhere I go.
My hot, big-titted sister. Hi, Alex.
Does this thong right up my ass? Actually, let me adjust it. Let me adjust it.
Now, as I mentioned earlier, Alex would be directly responsible for many of the deaths that occurred around Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow's orbit. But it seems like Lori had been going to Alex to do her dirty work for decades.
Did you ever hear the story about him getting a head injury? No. It's just fucking obvious.
Is it short? No, it's just he had a car accident and he came back never the same. That's what they all said.
And it was that there was a thing in here where he was in a coma for two days after a car accident and he came out and he was fucking just a shell of himself. So after his NDE, he didn't become a god? No, unfortunately he wasn't shown the preview of the rest of the world by God.
Nope. Well, in 2007, Lori Vallow manipulated her brother into driving from Phoenix to Austin to attack her ex-husband, Joe Ryan, although it's said that what Lori originally had planned was far more sinister.
See, Lori had been firing up Alex for months by telling him that Joe Ryan had been molesting her children, so Alex became obsessed with taking vengeance without Lori ever having to convince him to actually do it. So after Joe had a supervised visit with Tylee at a facility one day, Alex Cox suddenly appeared before Joe in a parking lot as Joe was walking to his car.
Alex began yelling, then pulled out a taser and buried it deep into Joe's chest as a sharp crackle filled the air. After being tased, Joe fell to the ground but quickly got up and started running and calling for help, while Alex got in his Pontiac Grand Prix and drove away.
But this had not been the plan. Lori Vallow and her daughter Tylee were actually watching the whole thing unfold from Alex's car because Lori had orchestrated the entire attack.
According to Adam Cox, aka DJ Bo Nasty, the plan was to kill Joe Ryan that day by tasing him, throwing him in the trunk of the Pontiac, driving him out to a field, shooting him and burying him. What is it about Pontiacs and murderers? Casey Anthony, also with the Pontiac Sunfire.
I just think it's got a fun look. It's got a vibe.
It's kind of like a, it's vibey. Nice big trunk.
Yeah. In the end, though, Joe still came away from the incident with a broken wrist and severe chest pains.
The tasing caused him to suffer heart problems for the rest of his life, and he soon after developed a nasty drinking problem to deal with the horrible shambles that his life had become. Now, this is just, it's fascinating that she watched the whole thing, and she kind of orchestrated it.
I'm so jealous of this relationship. I want to commit a crime with Jackie.
I want to commit a crime with my sister. I bet you guys have committed like five felonies together already and don't even know it.
In. In college? Yeah.
In Tallahassee? No. I want to kill my sister.
It's fun to do. Look how close they were.
They were fixing each other's underwear. Henry was innocent in college.
Jackie, not so much. Yeah.
She was the one that did the dirty things. I was making art.
You know, it was probably easy. So if Barry Cox most likely molested all these kids, it was probably really easy for her to convince Adam, or was it Alex? Alex.
Alex to fucking go after this guy for molesting her kids. Possibly.
They had a very open sexual relationship. Barry Cox and Janice Cox used to talk about their fucking with their kids.
The kids used to repeat it to the rest of the family as funny little jokes. They all were always inappropriately touching each other as a family.
And so it came from up top. And then Alex also said in his stand-up that he did it in the nuts, not in the chest.
Yeah. Yeah.
Don't exaggerate. What are you talking about? Every stand-up says, like, you know, I was on my way to the veterinarian today.
It's never real. Stand-ups are fucking lying to you guys.
Not all of them. I mean, you know, I mean, Hasan Minhaj is a truthful man.
Got him! Now later, Lori admitted that she had searched the Book of Mormon for some justification to kill her ex-husband without guilt or retribution from God. And she believed that she'd found it in a compilation of Joseph Smith revelations called Doctrine and Covenants.
Was that recorded live? Is that a bootleg? It was in the index. Doctrine and Covenants, live at Red Rocks, yeah.
The passage said, quote, And then, if he shall come upon you or your children, or your children's children into the third and fourth generation, I have delivered thine enemy into thine hands. This line, Lori Vallow believed, was the Book of Mormon telling her that it was not only morally fine to murder her ex-husband, but religiously sound as well.
And it's written down. Yeah.
Now, Alex Cox was naturally arrested for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon for attacking Joe Ryan. He was given a paltry sentence of 90 days.
But even that, Alex thought, was too harsh. He thought that he should have been hailed as a hero, and he even worked his nearly fatal assault into a bit for his stand-up comedy routine.
You gotta write what you know. Sure.
You know what I mean? Vile massively almost killed... He should have wrote all about what it was like to almost kill your sister.
There's some funny shit in that, I bet. Oh, man, he must have missed at least eight minutes.
God, I wish he was on The Moth. Oh! It's a fucking terrible routine.
Like, it's out there. see it.
It's just him warbling on about it. I thought I was going to get a medal.
Apparently it's a felony in Texas to tase a pedophile. I am surprised that it is.
Do you want to play it at all? Do you want to play any new stand-up? No, I don't want to give him a single bit of fucking air. Well, he's at least not getting paid for it now.
No, he's not. Now, this incident seemed to bring Lori and her brother Alex even closer, because soon after, Lori convinced her husband Charles to move the whole family to a suburb of Phoenix, just a few miles from where Alex lived.
Life, however, was relatively uneventful for the next few years. But in 2012, Charles Vallow's nephew

fathered a baby who was born premature.

The nephew and the mother were both addicts,

so social services put the baby in the care

of Charles Vallow's sister, Kay Woodcock.

By addict, do you mean like chocoholic?

I mean like heroinaholic.

Oh, that's so much worse than chocolate.

Way less delicious. Maybe methaholic.
I'm not sure. They were never truly, like, they were never that clear about it.
That's going to be my sitcom, methaholic. If it's 2012, that's still kind of like that in-between time between meth and heroin.
Yeah, you're right. Yeah, yeah.
So, could be either. Could be both.
Well, the child was Joshua Jackson, better known as JJ. Now's sister Kay was too old to raise a baby.
So a few months after gaining custody, Charles and Lori adopted JJ. And as a result, JJ Vallow would be the other child to die under Lori Vallow's care.
Now, two years after they adopted JJ, Lori finally realized the Cox family dream when she convinced her husband to move the family to Hawaii, which was also a bit of a fuck you to Joe Ryan, because Joe Ryan had actually moved to Phoenix to be closer to his daughter. But it was in Hawaii that Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell's paths first began to cross.
I can feel the vibes. Yeah.
I can feel the waves. I can feel it.
Ooh, God, just fucking those little, you got those Mormon underwear getting wet from how human it is. Getting really wet.
Gotta peel that off to get to that fucking geish. Mahalo! Aloha! You will address me at church! You will follow the island regulation! I just want to say aloha.
I just want to say aloha to him. Well, in Hawaii, Lori discovered the world of Mormon near-death experience books, and she became a particular fan of the ribbon-twirling author we mentioned last week, Julie Rowe, who was published by Chad Daybell's company.
Lori Vallow also became a huge fan of Julie Rowe's podcast, which led her directly to the Avow message board that originally gave Chad Daybell his first big boost. From there, Lori Vallow discovered Chad Daybell's books and his podcast appearances.
And Lori had soon read every book Chad ever wrote, including all of his awful fiction. The members of the Avow message board, by the way, were also big believers in the white horse prophecy.
And it's likely that this website was where Lori Vallow discovered the story about the 144,000 Mormons who would survive the apocalypse to witness the second coming of Jesus Christ. Dude, Julie Rowe is fucking insane.
Yeah. She's crazy, man.
Have you seen her TikToks? I have not. I have fallen into that hole, man.
Julie Rowe is absolutely apeshit. Looking great.
Yeah. I mean it.
She's tight as hell. And she says- You love all these women.
There's something about these dangerous ass women. Julie Rowe

kind of looks like the woman who plays Callie on Grey's Anatomy.

She does.

But the earthquake's still coming.

Yeah. Earthquake's still coming.

It's so weird because she seems so rational

in the doc and then she'll just say the craziest

shit out of nowhere. Dude, you should

watch this interview I did with the East Idaho

News with

her an hour, unadulterated, uncut Julie Rowe, and she is fucking nuts. But she puts forward, too, that Chad might have been kind of angling for her to be the number one wife before he met Lori Vallow.
Well, she's not blonde enough. Nope.
But at the same time that Lori was starting to fall completely into the highly attractive world of fantasy, her real life was getting more complicated. It soon became clear that the child she and Charles adopted, J.J.
Vallow, soon became clear he was severely autistic and he had to be constantly watched lest he sneak out of the house and wander the neighborhood. Charles Vallow worked all the time.
He traveled a lot for work. So it became Lori's responsibility.

Lori's son, Colby, also got married in 2018, and his new wife soon noticed the strange relationship Lori had with her son. Lori was terribly jealous and was said to have treated Colby more like a boyfriend than her own child.
After Colby got married, Lori became distant as if her son had left her for another woman.

It's not like my mom at all.

Not at all not at all she was never like that she never called anybody i was with a whore she never just said being like they're trying to take they're just trying to take my son from me it is like i remember the first when uh my i broke up with my long-term girlfriend and it was the first christmas with my mom. She's like, now that you don't have your girlfriend, it's nice that I get more presents.
Thanks, Mom. She's crying next to the Christmas tree.
Additionally, Charles and Lori's marriage was starting to show some wear. When Charles' mother died, Lori refused to go to the funeral, saying that she was somehow too busy.

There's stuff floating around, man.

It's hard for her to go, right? You can't just be like,

you just dropped this funeral on me.

Okay, if you really wanted me

to go, you would have told me two weeks

ago when I had already not done

because I have to get my belly frozen.

You've seen that?

No. It's some kind of process where you get your belly frozen.
Wow. It hurts, apparently.
I bet. That's it? But the one piece of good news from Lori's perspective was the objectively depressing death of Joe Ryan.
His decomposing corpse was found in a Phoenix apartment after he'd been dead for weeks. But when Lori was informed of the death, she couldn't have been happier, telling her sister-in-law that Joe was evil and needed to die.
Now, because of... He's the guy who got tased, correct? Yeah.
Now, if he got chest problems after that, they could have tied that to them, probably. It's almost certain that Joe Ryan died of a heart attacklex cox tased him now why was like 58 or something now why wouldn't he get arrested for that then because they would have to press charges in the first place yeah it's hard to prove that man and i never went for the yeah well yeah but i i knew immediately well but that's the other thing too is that at this point joe ryan's just a corpse in a fucking apartment in phoenix you know he's a he's as far as the police are concerned he's a divorced man with a bunch of pictures of his daughter around his apartment bunch of liquor bottles around who died of a heart attack and no one cared about joe ryan no one gave a shit i just gotta say i'm looking at this whole crime scene and i gotta say what a life.
Can't wait to do this myself.

Amazing.

Something to look forward to.

But you'll

notice this is a running theme with

Lori. She likes to deal out

death. She likes to say who needs

to die and who deserves to live.

And she did this for a long

time before she met Chad Daybell. That sort of thinking was already in her fucking brain.
Oh, they were just ready to meet. They were ready to be together.
They're almost there. Now, by 2018, Lori Vallow was 45 years old and had become absolutely obsessed with the Mormon near-death experience world.
Besides the works of Chad Daybell and Julie Rowe, Laurie was also a fan of a book called The Second Comforter, written by a man with the unlikely name of Denver C. Snuffer Jr.
Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That was the guy that molested Big Bird, actually.
It was very sad episode of Sesame Street. That was really rough.
I remember when Denver C. Snuffer Jr.
molested Big Red. He was Oscar the Grouch's roommate, right? Yeah, drifter.
Yeah, he was a drifter. He lived in the trash can next to it.
And the second comforter is also what saved my marriage. You know, me as well.
Get that second comforter, ladies and gentlemen. It's a game changer.
It really does make your life a lot better. I also do the second comforter.
I have to. Fantastic.
But in the Mormon world, you can't be into the near-death experience trip without also falling into the end times obsession, because these two subjects were intrinsically linked by the time Laurie arrived on the scene. So after the Vallow family moved back to Arizona,

they don't live in Hawaii anymore,

they're back in Arizona,

Lori joined so many other neo-fundamentalist Mormons

in becoming a doomsday prepper.

Makes sense,

because Arizona already looks like the set of Mad Max.

True.

Now, by October of 2018,

Lori Vallow had found her way

to a Mormon end times class

taught by a writer and so-called life coach,

a woman named Melanie Gibb.

I hate Melanie Gibb.

Gibb, you may remember, had been inspired

by Chad Daybell, and had opened a local

branch of the Doomsday Prepper organization

Preparing a People in Arizona.

That's Preparing a People.

He made them know them better as

Pap. Pap!

God, you fucking ass, you fucking idiot!

I knew it was coming! You fucking piece of shit!

I knew it was coming! You fucking piece of shit! I knew it was coming! I'm a fucking piss on you while you sleep! I'm a prank in your house, I'm gonna watch you sleep! No, that's getting me! That's getting me! That's how I'm gonna get you! That's how I'm gonna get you! If you do that, I'll say, you got me. Well, before long, Lori was a committed member PAP as well.
And with a receptive audience, her bullshit very quickly took off to the next level. At PAP meetings, Lori would claim that she no longer needed to sleep because angels would wake her up throughout the night to instruct her on how best to do God's work.
She lived on angel energy. That's cool.
You know, I mean, if you're going to live on anything,

might as well make it angel energy.

It sounds cool.

No, it doesn't.

I mean, this is Charlie Sheen talk.

Yeah, it is.

You know, like the idea of like,

Tiger blood, man.

Angels, I don't need to sleep.

Angels, they do sleep before me.

Yeah.

And it makes sense that Melanie Gibb

would make it past the apocalypse

because everyone knows that Gibbs are great at staying alive.

Whoa!

Yay!

Thank you, thank you.

Except for the one that died of AIDS.

Yes!

He died of AIDS?

He didn't die of AIDS?

Yeah, he died of AIDS.

No, he didn't.

Yeah!

No, one of the BGs.

Three of them died of AIDS.

Three of them died of AIDS.

What are you talking about?

Three of the BGs did not die of AIDS.

No.

I thought Barry Gibb died of AIDS. Barry Gibb didn't die of AIDS.
No, he did not die of AIDS. Yeah, he was crucified by an AIDS victim.
Yes, that's right. No, no, no, no.
I remember now, Jimmy Carter ran him over with a car. That's a visual joke.
You guys can't see my act out of him. Him driving the car, that's Jimmy Carter.
It's a surprise that I'm going to die face.

Obviously influenced by Chad Daybell,

Lori also claimed to be a personal witness of the resurrected Jesus Christ.

And she said that she was regularly visited by the dead spirits of family members.

God, she said, had also given her so-called pre-mortal memories.

Pre-mortal, as I said earlier, that's a Mormon term. For the time people live in the presence of Heavenly Father before we're born on this earth.
But in Lori's premortal life, she claimed that she'd been a warrior for Christ, fighting the forces of darkness in the premortal world for millennia. And by the way, also, every time Lori, it fucking drives me nuts, every time Lori Vallow says the word millennia, she extends it into four staccato syllables.
Millennia. Yeah, it's fair.
God. But when Lori said all this crazy shit to a gathering of PAP members, she got not blank stares or polite nodding, but raucous applause.
It's like when I do shows in Florida instead of LA. And so the week after Lori was completely and totally validated for her extraordinarily arrogant beliefs, Melanie Gibb took Lori to a PAP conference in St.
George, Utah. 15 guest speakers were on the bill, but the one that Lori Vallow wanted to meet more than any of them was her favorite near-death experience author and podcaster, Chad Daybell.
Yummy yum. And as soon as she saw him, the first thing she thought in my head was, man, oh man, I want a slice of that more man.
Yeah, I want that bowl of yogurt of a man. Nothing I want better.
To gargle the pouch of fat underneath his belly button. So that I can properly serve.
Ooh, Chad. I bet he comes oatmeal.
Oh, I hope he does. Because that's the only thing I can eat according to my religion.
Tammy, are you ready for my cream of wheat? Yeah. Now, I saw the Mormon Girls website, and I feel like some of it is different there because it seems there they really want to make sure none of the seed is wasted.
Do you think that normal Mormon ladies, do they, is it like doctrine to swallow? I don't know if blowjobs are necessarily Mormon friendly. Side stories, lpotl at gmail.com.
I would actually really like to know. I bet they are.
They're probably fine. I mean, I guess it's between a consenting father and son, then it should be fine.
I imagine if they're not using the vagina, it should be all good to go. I feel like it's the opposite.
Yeah, because the big Mormon thing is soaking. Yes.
But I just don't know if you swallow if it makes it illegal because then it's food. Because then you're making food.
Oh. That's choking.
Yeah. I mean gagging.
Yeah. We done talking about cum? Yep.
Okay. But Chad claimed that right before this conference in St.
George, his so-called spiritual voice, the one that supposedly guided him in his everyday life, this voice told him that he would meet an extraordinary woman at the conference that day, a woman who would change his life forever. One day you meet your Deborah Dearest Chad No Chad, Deborah will make you happy She will Ramona Yoda Well conveniently Chad had made himself totally free To meet whoever he wanted that weekend As he'd left his wife and five children back home in Rexburg, Idaho, a.k.a.
New Jerusalem, for this particular conference. And there ain't no such thing as cheating at a PAP conference, because what happens at a PAP conference stays at the PAP conference, and then it gets out, and it kills your children.
But But the pap conference does sound like a bunch of women in their feet in a bunch of fucking the big pap smear conference. Oh, there it is.
You know what I mean? Yeah. I guess it sounds like that.
Guy going in there with, don't they use a hook? Yeah, they use a hook. What else do you think about pap smears? What else do you think happens down there? I love them in the germs.
Yes, the Pat smear, yeah. Germs, Nirvana, all that.
Goes good on a everything bagel. I love the Pat smear.
That's my favorite. Mmm, yum.
So after Chad went before the Pap conference and gave his halting, awkward speech about the end times, he sat down at his table to meet his fans and sign his books. There was tens of them.
And who else should saunter up to Chad's sit down with a big smile and a lot of adulation but Lori Vallow. Hi.
Lori told Chad that she'd read all of his books. And from what Melanie Gibbs said, Chad and Lori had instant chemistry, as if a lightning bolt had hit both of them.
And indeed, it does seem like Chad and Lori went from zero to a hundred almost instantly. Well, Chad and Lori were inseparable for the rest of the conference.
And before the weekend was over, Chad was telling Lori that his spiritual gifts had revealed that they had been married seven times before in previous lives. Lori chad said was one of the chosen ones and together they would change the world chad also told lori that she had spiritual powers that only chad could unleash in full so they exchanged numbers at the end of the conference and continued communicating after they parted ways that's just how you flirt at an end times conference.
Yeah, you got, you know, we've been married seven times. Also, if anyone's going to commit adultery at a conference, it's the end times conference.
Yeah. They're not expecting to live much longer.
Well, that's the whole thing, right? Is that they all now believe that every single thing is the end justifies the means. Is that it's all careening towards everybody's going to be dead anyway.
And it does, it adds a sense of urgency to everything you do. Absolutely everything.
So it does tend to make you make bad decisions. Decisions like, hey, why don't we kill our spouses? Or, hey, why don't we kill my children? You know, because you just think, not a lot of time left.
We got to get this shit kick-started, and it's not really going to matter anyway. They also believe that there is no pause between this life and the next life.
Yeah. They believe the next life is as real and is as concurrent as this life, so you won't miss anything.
Death is not anything. Yeah.
Now, as we said, Chad was a bit of a dud in both personality and looks. Or at least that's the case by non-Mormon standards.
Me? I'm the human version of Parcheesi. Everybody's favorite sit-down game.
Good, quiet, long game. Lori, however, couldn't stop talking about Chad on the way back from the conference, saying that she was attracted to him, quote, on a spiritual level.
Now, as what attracted her, Lori was obviously a very black and white person, and in addition to pumping her up, Chad had also given Lori a very simple way of slotting black and white thinking into her belief system. Chad claimed that he'd come up with a system to tell if people were dark spirits or light spirits, which was yet another concept he'd stolen from the controversial controversial NDE book Visions of Glory.
In Visions of Glory, Tom Harrison had said that during one of his NDEs, he was shown people whose only purpose on Earth was to commit evil deeds, people he unimaginatively called evils. Everyone, Harrison claimed, has levels of light and dark within them, and we all have to ascend above the dark in order to gain light levels.
What I don't understand is, and I know I'm trying to make sense of something very, very stupid. Yes.
So if you are light and you die, does that mean that the number's down to 143,999 people that are saved? See, the 144,000 only happen after the rest of us are dead. And that's even still debated as to whether or not what that number means.
So if I'm light and you're dark and I die, does that mean that you have a chance to take my light? It makes no sense. No.
You're killing me, sir. Well, the big lesson with this, honestly, that visions of glory, like the real hidden thing is the idea that when you do bad things, you allow these evil spirits to gain agency over you.
Yeah. So it is your fault.
That's the key here is that no dark. See, light is like in his world if you're a Mormon already, in a capital M Mormon, you are a light.
But a dark person has allowed dark energies to enter them through the top of their head. Yeah, like that's the thing.
If you watch pornography and you masturbate, at the moment of ejaculation, the top of your head opens up and a dark spirit comes in. So they're all edgy.
Yes. Demons want experience

coming because they're disembodied. They never had

bodies. They're disembodied spirits.
And so

they have to jump into you the moment you

come. And this is all real.

According to them, then when you come,

the devil gets to be

like come and go wee

out of your dick. And it gets you

experience the whole thing because devils

love coming out from the inside of balls. Cool.
So does that answer your question? No. Come here.
I want to shake your head. Oh, sir.
So I assume that after reading about the light-dark system in Visions of Glory, Chad developed his own system to classify people into light or dark categories. The more light you were, the more aligned with God, and the more dark, the more you were aligned with Satan.
But as we said in the first episode, Chad really did turn Mormonism into a tabletop RPG, and he quantified how light or dark someone was by giving them a number between 4.3 and negative 4.3, or 4.3 light and 4.3 dark. Now, Chad had chose the number 4.3 because it added up to 7.
And 7 is extremely important in both Christianity and Mormonism. 7 days of creation, 7 tribes of Israel, so on and so forth.
Also, him and Lori have been married 7 times. 4.3, though, does not add up to 7.
No, it's a number in and of itself. 4.3.
4 and a 3 add up to 7 if you add them. If it's just 4.3, that's just a number.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But if you take the 4 and you take the 3, then you add that together, then that makes you, that's the thing.
In Chad's, that's the thing. Hey, fuck me.
In Chad's world of, like, fucking New Age numerology and making shit up as you go along, the four and the three represented heaven and earth So if you are 4.3 light That meant that you're spiritually perfect You have an equal amount of heaven and earth in you But if you're 4.3 dark Then you're perfectly spiritually imperfect, I suppose Although it would have been a fuck of a lot cooler if like the most dark you could be was 6.66

dark. Yeah.
That's called branding.

Yes it is. If he was actually making

this into a tabletop RPG, which I actually

think you should do at home. Sure.

I think the Lori Vallow, Chad Daybell at home

game would be really fun.

And that's how you do it.

You'd probably roll for it.

Yeah. But I think 6.66 has

to be the end of dark. Yeah, it has to be.

But then that's the thing is that you can't

It's Grayskull. What's his name?

Yeah, but you can't. But if you were 6.66

Dark, that makes you like a bigger

number than like 4.3 Light.

But that's because the evil is always more

powerful than good in the beginning, but in the

end they always lose. It's easy.
You could just make

it 7 Light and 6.66

Dark. So that way there's no equality there.
Let me call Chad. I actually have some numbers through my bosses.
Now, all of this, again, sounds very stupid. Yes.
And it only gets dumber from here. To tell who was a light or dark spirit, Chad used a magical artifact, a golden owl necklace that he believed was a gift from God.
Chad would ask the necklace questions, and it would swing one way or another to suss out the light or dark tone of a spirit. Sussing out tones, however, was only part of the owl necklace's power.
Chad would also bring it out during those gatherings he'd host at his home, and he would use it to tell people things about themselves and their past lives, things that made Chad appear to be very spiritually connected in the Mormon world. The owl would swing back and forth for a yes or swing in a circle for a no.
But according to one of Chad's former friends, Chad would find out who was coming to his gatherings beforehand and Google everything that he could find out about him then he would pretend that

information that he gathered on google came from the necklace and the worst part about asking the owl is that all the hours of like now tell me magical owl is tiley dark who tiley who timely

magical owl

hours of this. It's very cute.

Yes, thank you. It only did involve the deaths of all these children.
It would be entirely cute. I wonder what he did when he went to Hooters.
Oh, yeah, he was like, owls everywhere. But I do think that Chad did actually believe in his own bullshit, because after Chad got back to Rexburg after meeting Lori, he immediately took his owl necklace and began a detailed light and dark spirit analysis of Lori's whole family, including her ex-husbands and her dead relatives.
Not surprisingly, Lori Valley herself was 4.3 light. Spiritually perfect.
Guess what, Chad Daybell? 4.3 light. Wow! Spiritually perfect.
Of course he was! Yes! They're so blessed. They really are.
Both of Lori's parents and her dead sister Stacy, three light on Earth. But Stacy, since she'd gone to heaven, she was now 4.1 light.
That's like your survival rating in Naked and Afraid. Yeah.
It doesn't really make sense either, that one either. No.

It's very arbitrary. Yeah.

Also not surprising was Chad's appraisal of

Lori's ex-husbands. Her

second husband was too dark,

while Joe Ryan was on the totally opposite

side of Lori's spectrum, at 4.3 dark.

He's dead! Yeah.

He's still 4.3 dark. Well, he was

4.3 dark when he was on Earth. Wow.

Wow! Chad's awesome! He's so smart! You're cool. Also, guess what that is? Folk magic.
Yeah. It's fucking the same thing that Joseph Smith did.
It's another fake bullshit like, it's literal old-timey con man shit. Magical objects play a massive role in Mormonism.
And they continue to this day. can just say, oh yeah, I have a magical object because Joseph Smith had magical objects.
And you can just say whatever the fuck you want. And as long as you kind of talk a good game and stay within the bounds that everybody's expecting you to stay within, then you can get a long fucking way in Mormonism with a magical owl necklace.
Oh wow wow. God, we got to do it.
Sure. We can get one.
Yeah. Interestingly, though, Chad was all over the place in the beginning when it came to quantifying the people who would end up dead as a result of his and Lori's beliefs.
Charles Vallow, Lori's then current husband, started at three light, and their adopted son, JJ, was even better. He was a 4.2.
Damn near perfect. Tylee, however, Lori's daughter, she was 4.1 dark.
And I believe that this negative rating may have been where the first seed of getting rid of everyone keeping Chad and Lori apart was planted. See, almost immediately, Chad began blowing copious amounts of spiritual New Age Mormon smoke up Lori's ass, and Lori's ass was just about as wide open as it could possibly be to welcome it in.
As wide as a Swiss sailor. Lori's brother Alex soon joined his sister as a follower of Chad Daybell, and within nine months of Chad and Lori's first meeting, Lori's fourth husband, Charles, would be dead by Alex Cox's hand.
Charles would be just the first of four people to die as a result of the fantasy world Lori and Chad would soon create together. And it's with the creation of that world that we'll pick back up next week for Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow Part 3.
Wow. Man.
Man, I just fucking love this whole goddamn story so fucking much. It's incredible.
It's a crazy story, but the four-point thing, it just makes me so, like, insane with anger. Yeah, you don't like D&D.
You don't like it when it results in child's death. But it's just, it's just, it's as judgy as you can possibly get.
And it's stupid. It's really stupid.
It doesn't make any sense. It's just like, pulls it out of his ass, and everyone's like, yeah, that sounds great.
And whoever said before was completely incorrect, Andy Gibb died of a drug addiction. And Barry Gibb's still alive.
And there's also a... Whoever said all this before? Whoever said that, and Maurice died of untwisted intestines I don't even know how that happens I guess this comes from fucking Saturday Night Fever go to patreon.com slash last podcast on the left to watch video episodes of every single episode we do.
And don't forget to go watch side stories for free over on YouTube. And once you got those apps open, go on over to TikTok and Instagram and follow us at LP on the left.
And if you still want more from the last podcast network, go over to twitch.tv slash LPN TV to see us perform bullshit live and go back to our YouTube page to check out everything after the fact VOD. And don't forget to come out and see us on tour.
That's right, man. We're going to be in Nashville soon.
That is March 14th. We're doing the fricking rhyming, dude.
Can't wait. I'm so excited for this.
The rhyme is the most beautiful venue in the entire country. It's incredible.
I can't wait to be there in their weird Confederate church.

And then we'll be in Huntsville.

Right after that, on the 16th, that's Sunday, we're going to be in Huntsville.

And Henry and I, we're coming for you, NASA.

We're coming for you, NASA.

I also told there are several competing German restaurants,

and there's an entire German town that we can go to that is just outside of Huntsville as well. Well, if they are competing, they need to hit us up and compete for our business because we're big, and we buy lots of sausage.
I can't wait. So this NASA headquarters, not headquarters, but...
They had a sudden influx of German population around 1945 for some reason. 1945 or so for some reason, yeah.
And they just had to find a bunch of different, and it different things. They were a very demanding clientele.
Particular. And they just seemed to create a lot of they found a way for them to be really comfortable in Alabama.
Now that I think about it, the Nazis were quite fussy. You know, they really, really were.
I call them pains in the asses. Maybe they were just upset because they're all the cuckoo clocks driving them crazy yeah I can never sleep I cannot sleep well hail Satan everyone because Satan actually won't kill your kids he wants nothing to do with your fucking kids yeah hail Gein he never killed a single child yes and hail Gein Hackman well we don't know yet what you mean? We don't know whether it sounds like carbon monoxide poisoning.
No, it's all that completely got debunked. No, carbon monoxide poisoning is actually highly suspicious.
They have no idea what happened inside the house. Well, I'm still hailing him while I can.
Yeah. Do it while you can.
But please, let's not get into a Chris Benoit situation here. With Gene Hackman? With a kid with a wife? He was 95!

The wife was found mummified.

She'd been dead for days.

And they found him.

They might have followed.

It looks like either she died suddenly,

and then he fell,

and then he had pills,

and then the dog ate the pills is why the dog died.

That is like one thing that they're saying.

But otherwise, they don't know

because the doors were,

the front door was open.

That was what's also weird.

So somebody could have went in there.

For days, the door was open?

Apparently.

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