Episode 610: Lori Vallow and Chad Daybell - The Doomsday Murders Part II - Ticking Time Bomb

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Speaker 1 From the boogie-down streets of Queens to a pile of beans,

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Speaker 1 to your room.

Speaker 1 There's no place to escape to. This is the last time.

Speaker 1 On the left.

Speaker 1 That's when the cannibalism started.

Speaker 1 Who was that?

Speaker 1 I just want to kind of maybe open up today's episode, first of all, talking about how you guys are handling your own demonic attacks inside of your home. Yeah, right.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 How has it been? Like, have you been able to sleep? I was trying to sleep last night, but demons kept jumping inside of my penis and making it big. Big? Like, too big.

Speaker 1 And I was scared of at first. I was scared.
Natalie was curious. Yeah.
Then she was scared. Then we were both delighted.
Then we were confused. And we went to sleep.

Speaker 1 But then I, because I fell back asleep, my penis deflated. Yeah.
And so it's fine back to normal today. Smaller than yesterday.
Interesting.

Speaker 1 which i also don't like that i feel like in a way it's like if we wear a too small of shirt have you tried rubbing it and rubbing it and rubbing it and rubbing it and rubbing it and rubbing it and rubbing it and rubbing it and rubbing it and rubbing it all morning and then i called my neighbor and he came by and he says have you been talking about chad debel and lori vallo and i said yes he's like i had a demon come into my house last night and make my wife's clitoris five inches long.

Speaker 1 And I was like, is that good or bad? And he just gave me two thumbs up and I realized he wasn't wearing any pants and i was like

Speaker 1 so i actually in a way in that way it's kind of helping the neighborhood but have you guys seen anything kind of the same or different well i learned how to bless my own urine wow yeah and so it's really and so i got holy water coming out of me all day so

Speaker 1 i'm doing great can you actually would you like me to can you give me some

Speaker 1 can you give me some please daddy i want to be your hope urinal well is that why you were laying down next to the toilet earlier yes

Speaker 1 welcome to the last last podcast on the left, ladies and gentlemen. I'm free of demons, Marcus Parks.
You're free of demons? I'm totally free of demons. Oh, no, no, no.

Speaker 1 I sold my soul many a year ago, so they don't bother me anymore. Whoa.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know what my problem is? You know what I never did when I was doing all that paperwork? Because obviously I'd have no need for it. As a matter of fact, I could lose it.
I could lose the weight.

Speaker 1 Sure. But I forgot to click finish on the docu sign.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's how the devil gets you again.

Speaker 1 No, Dimitri.

Speaker 1 You didn't finish complete and we have the technologically impaired henry zabrowski it's not me who's technologically impaired honestly how am i supposed to know it's it's always like at the end of some blank page

Speaker 1 i can't believe we all just agreed to just sign through the internet yeah you know it's all it's like we just cut that like the one thing that like really kept it real we just say i make up my signature

Speaker 1 i want to say my signature is just like a scribbled drawing of a flower you know that we just hit print

Speaker 1 and we have longing for the old days it's It's Ed Larson. X.
That's what I sign. Yeah.
I like a good old-fashioned X. Oh, yeah, that's right.
You still haven't learned to read or write. No, no, no.

Speaker 1 But I did learn that X is called X and not Line Line.

Speaker 1 Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 Man, you're really growing up. Yeah, man.
Now I'm learning how to play the Line Line the phone. I mean, the

Speaker 1 signal phone?

Speaker 1 Get better.

Speaker 1 Learn. I need you to learn letters.
And here we are for Chad Daybell and Lori Vallo, part two. Yay.

Speaker 1 So when last we left the story, Chad Daybell had finally gained a following of sorts in the Mormon neo-fundamentalist doomsday community.

Speaker 1 By appearing on Mormon Prepper podcasts and giving talks at New Age seminars about the impending apocalypse, Chad had gathered a small group of apocalypse-minded Mormons who were on the same near-death experience trip as him.

Speaker 1 These followers, however, were mostly women, and amongst his biggest fans was his eventual partner in crime, Lori Vallow. Yep, we're meeting her her today.
Oh, sweet, sweet Lori.

Speaker 1 Finally, my life is complete.

Speaker 1 She's gonna ruin us all. You know, Chad Daybell, what I do find is interesting is that I actually watched a really good in-depth interview with Heather Daybell, his sister-in-law.

Speaker 1 One thing in common with all of these ex-Mos, they all got that Connie Britton Yellowstone hair. Yeah, everybody's got the big hair that looks like, kind of looks like a Tina Turner wig.

Speaker 1 It's got a bunch of four different kinds of

Speaker 1 friday night lights hair yeah yeah yeah it's got right sort of like four different kinds of blondes in it you know what i mean it's very big they all got also crazy fakies yeah but why not big old crazy bing bong after you're out of the mormon church go ahead have at it strap them on man it's more man it is boy but now you're more woman right but chad dabel he was like weirdly the way she talked about it it it finally nailed something in the head for me he was so pompous he thought that he was so cool.

Speaker 1 And the worst thing ever was that when he pulled into Rexburg with sad Tammy Daybell in tow. Yeah, when he's here to, he's here for the new, the new Jerusalem.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 When he showed up, the worst part was that everybody loved it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 They became like... Very popular.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I said that last episode. And they keep walking around and telling other people how their land is eventually going to be theirs.
That is also wild.

Speaker 1 To go into somebody's house and be like, in Idaho at lit, no less. Oh yeah, they're like, oh yeah, all of this, we'll be using this here for the, that'll be for the lazy river in the post-apocalypse.

Speaker 1 And they're all like, what? But most of the people are like, yep, yeah, oh yeah, see you too, Chad. Well, that's because he looks like a peeled potato.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, who's going to take him seriously? He's never going to get this off the ground.

Speaker 1 I do think there was some of that being like, ah, it's fun for now. Yeah, and almost like a little bit of Mormon politeness as well.
Like where it's like, I'm not going to tell this guy to fuck off.

Speaker 1 Just like, yes, encourage him, smile, and just let it go. You also joke.
We talked a little bit about this. I'm not joking.
I'm being 100% serious. Mormon politeness is a weapon.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Much like their and their arrogance. Just like Southern Charms.
Same. It's like their arrogance is what is going to kill this family.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Now, we spent the majority of the last episode telling the life story of Chad Daybell.

Speaker 1 And while his life story is extremely interesting, it's pretty damn tame for the most part because of Chad's extreme Mormon demeanor. Extreme Mormon.

Speaker 1 Line line Mormon.

Speaker 1 But, you know, Chad, he didn't really go off the rails completely until he met Lori Vallow. So today, we'll be covering the story of the person who pushed Chad over the edge.

Speaker 1 A story filled with death, sex, betrayal, religion, and lies.

Speaker 1 This is the life lived by everyone's favorite Idahoan, Lori Vallow. But Lori is only part of the picture here.

Speaker 1 As we cover her, we'll also be covering her family in detail, because none of us would have ever known Lori Vallo's name had it not been for the influence of her parents, and conversely, the influence Lori was able to exert on other members of her family.

Speaker 1 Like Patrick Schwarzenegger. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Particularly, we're going to be covering Lori's brother, Alex Cox, who would in time become directly responsible for two attempted murders and three actual murders.

Speaker 1 Alex was just as, if not more, psychopathic than Lori Vallo herself. And that's not even to mention the fact that Alex was also an open mic stand-up comedian.
And which is worse.

Speaker 1 His credits include killing men, girls, and boys. Please welcome to the stage, Alex Conner.
Yes, thank you, thank you. Thank you, everybody.
Kill my sister's kids, please.

Speaker 1 Anybody? I'm just so lazy. Anybody here ever kill a man in fake self-defense for their sister and then she doesn't even have the good grace to sleep with you? The worst.
Still hard thinking about it.

Speaker 1 Anyways, those Utah Jazz, more like the Utah As.

Speaker 1 Well, thank you, make sure to hit your waitress, folks.

Speaker 1 So Lori Vallo came into this world as Lori Cox in Loma Linda, California on June 26, 1973. The fourth of five children born to two massive Mormon pains in the ass named Janice and Barry Cox.

Speaker 1 Barry Cox is truly extreme Mormon. Yeah, this is the most extreme Mormon that you could meet.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 XXX. The horniest name of all time, Barry Cox.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 I didn't even get it, dude. Oh, yeah, Barry Cox.

Speaker 1 And guess what? He might have a bit of the Fritzel in him as well. Oh, definitely.

Speaker 1 He truly was. He put the Cox in his family.

Speaker 1 See, unlike Chad Daybell's family, Lori's brood was far more relaxed when it came to mixing the secular world with the Mormon world.

Speaker 1 Janice Cox, Lori's mother, she wore high heels, tight leopard skin pants, short, tight tops. She loved to bleach blonde her hair.

Speaker 1 And Lori's father, Barry, he was a gambler who liked to sometimes bring Lori along as a good luck charm. You know, in the dock, Lori looks like a fucking iguana with a wig on.

Speaker 1 Oh, you turn the gas to Janice? Yeah,

Speaker 1 Janice. Yeah.
Oh, God, yes. Janice is burnt.
She looks like. I saw a liquor eyeball once.

Speaker 1 You know, when somebody looks like their sins,

Speaker 1 you know, like they look like the thing that they did bad? That's like what she did because she really is. She's like a little like.
She's a Stephen King character.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Yes. But, you know, they were the fun family.
Yeah. They were considered the fun Mormon group because her cousin Megan went to go stay with them several times.

Speaker 1 And she said that Barry Cox took them all to see Rambo. And she said, obviously, in the Mormon community, that's an extreme big no-no.

Speaker 1 But Barry Cox overrid it by being like, that's the kind of way we're going to be living soon in the forest, fighting the police one by one.

Speaker 1 He was ready to go. And he loved prostitutes, man.
Did he? Oh, yeah. Hmm.
I didn't know that about him. Love them.

Speaker 1 I love them because it's not that you pay them to come and it's not that you pay them to leave. You pay them to touch.

Speaker 1 That's the key. And they don't come home with you.
Yeah, you're right.

Speaker 1 Well, Barry and Janice Cox were also big fans of Hawaii, and they'd often abandon their children for weeks at a time for gambling trips out to the islands. Who the fuck goes to Hawaii to gamble?

Speaker 1 It doesn't, I didn't even know you could gamble in Hawaii.

Speaker 1 Apparently, you can. I guess if you go on like a cruise ship or something.
I think maybe in Honolulu. Also, there is a giant Mormon stronghold in Hawaii as well.

Speaker 1 Extremely so, and we're going to get to that later. But when Lori's parents went to Hawaii, they would leave Lori's eldest sister at home to take care of Lori and their other siblings.

Speaker 1 As such, Barry and Janice were always somewhat on the outs with the LDS church, subscribing to the beliefs, but never really fitting in with the establishment.

Speaker 1 For example, Barry once showed up at a church function after a particularly good trip to Hawaii and screamed, Aloha, at the congregation. Aloha!

Speaker 1 Shake my hand! Shake my hand! Aloha! Shake my hand! I'm gonna shake his hand! Come here! I want to shake my hand! Aloha! Goodbye, and Aloha!

Speaker 1 He expected everyone in this Mormon congregation to shout aloha back, but he was, of course, met with total silence. Do you even understand that the national dance of Hawaii involves hips and tits?

Speaker 1 You know, but it's still sacred to the crabs.

Speaker 1 Aloha!

Speaker 1 Well, as far as the Cox children went, most LDS members from their origin point in California claimed that they barely remember Barry and Janice's kids.

Speaker 1 The siblings were also thought to be strange and off-putting by their peers, to the point where their house was a near constant target for a good old-fashioned toilet papering.

Speaker 1 Well, they already looked like a flaming pile of

Speaker 1 fuck shit.

Speaker 1 That was the ultimate Mormon kid, like, naughty thing. Yeah, that was the big rebellion, was TPing.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Now, when you're talking childhoods, Lori Vallows is a special case in the pantheon of true crime.

Speaker 1 There are no stories of extreme childhood abuse like you'd get with other psychopaths, nor do you really see anything in her childhood behavior that would give any indication that she'd eventually do what she did.

Speaker 1 In fact, the Cox family was wealthy, when Lori was said to be a spoiled child who was given anything she wanted.

Speaker 1 The hitch in Lori's childhood, however, was that there was somewhat of a subconscious battle between her parents for who would be the bigger influence.

Speaker 1 But it must be said that both influences were absolutely fucking terrible. Yep.
Lori's mother, Janice, for example, was essentially a vapid trophy wife obsessed with being beautiful and staying thin.

Speaker 1 Totally surface level stuff. And she attempted to shape Lori Vallo in that same image.

Speaker 1 See, Lori was somewhat of a chubby kid, so when she was in sixth grade, her mother put her on a strict diet so Lori could be put on the cheerleader track.

Speaker 1 And when Janice Cox was the coach for Lori's childhood softball team, Janice would make fun of Lori's weight in front of the other girls.

Speaker 1 As such, by the time Lori was in high school, she had finally met her mother's expectations. She had indeed lost weight, and she had indeed become a cheerleader.

Speaker 1 She kind of morphed herself into a sort of like friendly and popular Barbie doll type. It's fucked up because softball is like the one sport fat people can play.

Speaker 1 It really should.

Speaker 1 Because I was always taught as a chubby baseball player that you got to get in front of the ball. And that's the only thing that counts.
You've got to block the ball with your body.

Speaker 1 It doesn't matter if you use the glove or not. You just got to stop the ball.
And that requires extra mass.

Speaker 1 And Jackie also was a softball player, and a lot of the girls were of that persuasion as as well. Sure.
And that's nothing to do about that, okay? It's a sport, you got to build up the muscle for it.

Speaker 1 Fat turns into muscle if you work it, right? That's what my father told me. My father told me, Yeah, you're fat, son, and that means you're strong naturally and you got to use it.

Speaker 1 That's how we talked it. Yeah, my father also told me I was big and I should beat up people.
That is literally what he said.

Speaker 1 But Janice, she did the thing. I was small and disappointing.

Speaker 1 You're not lacking, brothers. Here's a spiral notebook.

Speaker 1 But Janice taught them all the trick of, which I also thought was real. And then I found out that apparently it is a massive eating disorder.
She's like,

Speaker 1 Laurie, you never have to eat anything you wanted at all. You don't have to swallow it.
You just chew it, Laurie. You chew it and you spit it out.
Jesus Christ. Yep, that's what she did.

Speaker 1 So she would full, and she also, because it's Mormon, you have to keep up all appearances. So again, if you're at any potluck or anything, you got to heat that plate up.

Speaker 1 So it would just be filled with chewed food, but it would be at the end of the meal. Oh, yeah.
Oh, God.

Speaker 1 What a horrible family.

Speaker 1 Oh, God. I go and I leave it for the birds.
Look at how they like it. That's how a mother feeds its child.

Speaker 1 But it also must be noted that even though Lori's family leaned more towards the secular in their lifestyle, Lori was also a committed Mormon who attended LDS seminary classes every morning before school, drinking in the indoctrination at every opportunity.

Speaker 1 But by Lori's senior year, she had begun bleaching her hair blonde. Lori's not a natural surprise, surprise.
Okay, bitch. She doesn't feel like a natural two-tone.

Speaker 1 She began wearing skimpy clothes, and soon enough, she'd taken a non-Mormon bad boy as her boyfriend. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 After graduating, Lori moved in with her high school sweetheart, and the two of them were married in Las Vegas by 1992.

Speaker 1 After less than a year, though, Lori was divorced following allegations that her husband abused her.

Speaker 1 This made her high school bow the first of three divorces and five marriages that Lori would have over the course of her life.

Speaker 1 If I ever have a second marriage, the only way to be with somebody with something like that is that they have to have, like, I say three times the marriages you've already had and several attempted homicides.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Because that's how you know somebody's gut stories.
Yeah. I mean, because, you know, after a while.
You're interesting. Wow.
Oh, cool. Yeah.
Say another one.

Speaker 1 Lori, however, would not be the only one in her family to marry and divorce young. Her older brother, Alex, also married and divorced his high school sweetheart.

Speaker 1 But that wasn't the only thing Lori and Alex had in common. See, Lori and Alex's relationship was what you'd call too close.

Speaker 1 Supposedly, Lori told her junior high best friend that Alex had made sexual moves on Lori when they were kids. But by the time Lori was a little older, it seems like Lori had decided she was into it.

Speaker 1 Maybe.

Speaker 1 From what Alex's first wife said, Alex would quite often talk about how hot his sister was. It's just science.
It's just hot girl science. It's not about being subjective.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, she's related to me.

Speaker 1 That's the difference. Is that that's in the end? That's just what's kind of legally keeping me from being inside of her.

Speaker 1 But otherwise, objectively, yeah, of course, I'd fuck her mouth and I'd play with her butt.

Speaker 1 This was in addition to frequently groping Lori, and this was with Lori's permission. But the the worst was when Alex would sometimes lift Lori by her waist and put her in his lap.

Speaker 1 And Lori would respond by enthusiastically bouncing up and down on her brother's crotch.

Speaker 1 See, that's what Eddie missed out on on being a single child and being an only child is that it's just so much fun to play Clydesdale with all your brothers and sisters.

Speaker 1 You used to play the earthworm game with your brothers, right? Where you used to crawl between their legs and then they'd ride you around, right? They would do that.

Speaker 1 So you and Jackie, what did you guys, do you played like the elephant game? Was Was that what it was called? Like where she would grab your penis, right? It's not sexual. It's not sexual.

Speaker 1 Pull it down to see how long the trunk could go. It's familiar.

Speaker 1 Then you pull them out, so they're ears. We were close, okay? And some people are jealous of that scenario.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And just because like I was an only child didn't mean I didn't have this relationship with my bishop. Yeah, I know.
And that's so nice. Is that that's what the church is really great for.

Speaker 1 It helps fill in those gaps.

Speaker 1 Ha ha, you're fucking asshole. You know, the family too is funny because I said this to you as a little allegorical thought in mind.

Speaker 1 But in the beginning, so like Lori go there, you hear the story about how her cousin and her went on a double date.

Speaker 1 And this is before everybody really knew that she was already kind of sleeping around. And she wanted to make out with her boyfriend.
They went joyriding all night.

Speaker 1 And they, one of the big famous stories, I guess, of her childhood was that they were, they saw a cat going across the street, and her boyfriend was laughing and trying to get it.

Speaker 1 And then they ran over the cat, right? And Megan started crying and shit. And they stopped the car and double backed over it to kill it, make sure it was dead.

Speaker 1 And Lori was laughing and all of this shit. And this image hit in my mind of Laura Palmer.
Yeah. Like this is Laura.
This is literally the beginning of this cycle.

Speaker 1 She's living a double life because Mormonism is forcing all people within the religion to live a double life. But actually in the end, she was Bob,

Speaker 1 yes. Is it bad for Mormons to kill cats? Because probably it doesn't seem like it's against their beliefs.
I'm going to look it up.

Speaker 1 I mean, do you really know of any religion where specifically killing cats is forbidden? Yeah, I don't think so. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So go ahead and buddy.

Speaker 1 Or probably Jewish.

Speaker 1 According to the super old man that looks like he's made out of frozen cum, he says that they're supposed to respect animals. Okay.
All right. Okay, good.

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Speaker 1 Now, after Lori's first divorce, she moved to Austin, Texas to join her oldest brother, Adam.

Speaker 1 But while Lori got a nice Mormon job as a hairstylist, Adam had delved fully into the secular world and had gotten a job as a shock jock radio DJ using the name Bo Nasty on KHFI, FM.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's awesome. I mean, I really like that.

Speaker 1 Bo Nasty. Bo Nasty.

Speaker 1 Interestingly, though, Lori's oldest brother, Adam, and this is different from Alex. This is not the open mic guy.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Adam would actually be the first member of the Cox family to be responsible for the death of another person.

Speaker 1 Because in 2007, Adam Cox was one of three Morning Zoo radio DJs who hosted a stunt infamous in the radio world called Hold Your Wii for a Wii. Keep on holding that urine.

Speaker 1 I can't see that yellow pearl come out of the top of that little snake you got there, or you're not going to get the we are. We all love Wii tennis.

Speaker 1 Oh, that means.

Speaker 1 It's true, though. No, this is absolutely true.
This story is. So what happened?

Speaker 1 You could die from that? Yes, you can.

Speaker 1 Well, during the on-air contest, 18 people drank as much water as they could, as fast as they could, and tried to see who could go the longest without urinating or vomiting.

Speaker 1 And the grand prize was a brand new Nintendo Wii, which was brand new at the time and quite rare. And it sold out everywhere.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And, you know, and a lot of these people, these 18 people, a lot of these were like parents trying to get a weed for their kids. Yeah.

Speaker 1 But drinking a large amount of water in a short period of time can cause acute water intoxication, which is a fatal condition. And one of the contestants, tragically, the runner-up,

Speaker 1 I know. She didn't win.
She didn't win. No.
And she actually died hours after she lost the contest. That's what they mean by second place as first loser.

Speaker 1 Hold on. So did she lose because she died? No.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 she lost because she wasn't able to hold the water longer. And she peed and she still died? She still died, yeah.

Speaker 1 That other guy could drink a lot of water. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that other guy's like, how fucking tough is my dick?

Speaker 1 But before you say this is an innocent prank gone wrong, Adam Cox and the other DJs during the contest, they discussed a frat boy who had died doing this same stunt.

Speaker 1 I think like a year or two earlier. And a nurse actually called the station during the contest to tell them: if these people do this, they will die.

Speaker 1 Adam and the other DJs, however, said on air that they were well aware that these people could die. You have to do it in the voice, though.
Oh, we're well aware.

Speaker 1 Oh, we are well aware that these people could die here on KHFIFM.

Speaker 1 And every Monday morning, we're going to be guaranteed that there's going to be one person dying every single week. Get the let-out!

Speaker 1 Welcome to our new Get the Let Out competition where we shoot you in the head and see if you survive. And coming tomorrow's Tuesday, and that's our Boo for Tuesday.

Speaker 1 Hold your poo. Hold your poo.
Boo for Tuesday. We're going to see if these people can eat as much feces as human beings possible.

Speaker 1 And we're going to see just who is going to be the champion and who's going to win two tickets to Seven Mary Three. I could have guessed it.
It's Stinky Pete.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 that's enough. You've won won too many contests now.

Speaker 1 But yeah, they said they were well aware these people could die, but no, they weren't worried about it because the contestants had all signed waivers.

Speaker 1 And they even took the opportunity to make jokes about the eventual victim's distended belly while she was obviously in distress.

Speaker 1 So they're like, oh, wow, she looks like she's a three-month pregnant over there. What do you think about that, Adam? I hope that she could get some kind of water-based abortion.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry, I ain't be getting a letter from my producer here. I'm off the edge.

Speaker 1 They said, one more abortion comment, and you're out of here, Adam.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, if you knew about it, you got the memo.
I guess I won't talk about what I know about the program director.

Speaker 1 But Adam and nine other employees were fired after the death. And while Adam never faced criminal charges, he still maintains that he did nothing wrong.
Adam Cox actually tried the Nuremberg defense.

Speaker 1 He said he was just following orders, and he actually actually saw himself as the victim here.

Speaker 1 But really all this is just to prove that just about everyone in the Cox family, not just Lori, is absolutely fucking awful. They are a bad set.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Adam always, Adam does sort of get like lifted up as like the good one. Yeah, because he wasn't a direct murderer.

Speaker 1 If that's the bar,

Speaker 1 you're the one sibling that either was, well, Stacy. Yeah.
I don't know what happened with Stacy, but it's like this whole, like, that's all you ought to be better than.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, he did show up to the wake with a we.

Speaker 1 This is just so that the body has something to play while it's resting in hell.

Speaker 1 Heaven, heaven, heaven. Heaven, well, you know, it depends if it was Mormon or not.
That's true.

Speaker 1 Now, from what one of Lori's friends from her younger days said, Lori was always unsatisfied with her life and was constantly on the lookout for something to fill the void.

Speaker 1 I will not live a life I do not deserve.

Speaker 1 It would, however, take a while for Lori to realize that her mother's plan for her life was not going to do the trick.

Speaker 1 Now, Lori certainly tried her mother's way of existing in the world for many years: a life of marriage, kids, diets, Hawaiian vacations, and shopping.

Speaker 1 But in the end, Lori found that her father lived life in a far more satisfying way, as Barry Cox lived a very fundamentalist Mormon life of arrogance, selfishness, and extreme delusion.

Speaker 1 Extreme Mormon activity!

Speaker 1 Extreme Mormon. I will not have a cup of coffee.
I will kill your child.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's the problem with being too extreme in the Mormon world. No energy drink sponsorships.
None. None.
No, actually, they can't have energy drinks. It's really just coffee.

Speaker 1 You can't you so you can have caffeine and gorionol, but it's coffee that's evil. This is the thing about the.

Speaker 1 I thought Coca-Cola was bad. No, you can't have sodas.
You can have soda. You absolutely can.
You can have caffeine. I've got many emails about this.
You absolutely can. It is just coffee.

Speaker 1 That's how stupid it is, Marcus. That's what I mean.
It's fucking arbitrary. Yeah.
It's fake. The whole thing is fucking fake.

Speaker 1 As soon as you hear a series of ornate rules from a thousand years ago, it's not fucking real.

Speaker 1 Well, the rules about coffee and tobacco, if I remember correctly from our Mormon series, I believe that came as a revelation because it was either one of Joseph Smith's wives or one of Brigham Young's wives who didn't like people drinking coffee and didn't like people smoking in her house.

Speaker 1 Yes. So she complained and complained and complained

Speaker 1 until there was a revelation. It's like, oh, yeah, God told me we can't have coffee and fucking cigarettes in here anymore.
Yeah. And it's continued to this day.

Speaker 1 That is very much the arbitrary nature of Mormon revelations. Oh, I thought they didn't want coffee because they just liked having sex with people while they were asleep.

Speaker 1 Is that wrong? No.

Speaker 1 See, while Chad Daybell was more influenced by the near-death experience/slash end-time side of fringe Mormonism, Lori Vallow came from a household deeply steeped in a particularly Mormon flavor of right-wing extremism that informed the way Lori's father lived his entire life.

Speaker 1 But perhaps what most influenced Lori's idea that she could bend the world to her will and make things true just by saying them out loud was the fact that her father was also that most egotistical and fantastical of American creations.

Speaker 1 Barry Cox was a sovereign citizen. I'm a private nation.

Speaker 1 I am the governor of a private continent. I am not a sovereign citizen.
That is a reduction of my power.

Speaker 1 And he has been waging an ongoing one-man war against the IRS since the 80s. I throw a calculator into a river every day.

Speaker 1 And so let's spend a little bit of time on Barry's sovereign citizenship and the particularly Mormon brand of right-wing extremism he subscribed to, because it really is these two things together that explain the incredible arrogance and the magical thinking that led Lori Vallo down her eventual path.

Speaker 1 Now, a sovereign citizen is basically a person who doesn't want to pay taxes, but they justify it by saying that the United States government is illegitimate, and they therefore claim that they are not subject to any government statutes unless they consent to them personally.

Speaker 1 You're also leaving out the people that have expired licenses, that they don't want to complete expired registrations that they don't want to complete, people that don't want to deal with government statutes.

Speaker 1 Any form of what they believe to be arbitrary government statutes, like the regulations that keep us safe on the roads. Basically, anything that requires an errand, they don't like.

Speaker 1 They don't want to do it. They don't want to run errands.
It keeps them from drinking while driving. They're not a fan of it.

Speaker 1 I guess what? But you know what? Much like an NDA, no law can really keep you from drinking and driving. You can still express that liberty yourself with just your hands and beer in your mouth.

Speaker 1 And just remember that that's the last thing they can take from us until the police shoot you in the head.

Speaker 1 Well, sovereign citizenship is actually a relatively new concept, and its origins lie in a conspiracy-focused white supremacist movement from the 60s called posse comitatis.

Speaker 1 Posse comitatus began as a reaction to the civil rights movement, which they saw as government overreach and proof that America as they knew it was dead.

Speaker 1 Consequently, the movement was mostly focused on not paying state or federal taxes because they believed the government had been taken over by the Jews. Hello.

Speaker 1 You always point it out there.

Speaker 1 I think JFK was fucking president at the time, but it's fine.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 See, this movement subscribed to the Christian identity belief that Jewish people are the descendants of Satan and that white Europeans are the real lost tribes of Israel, the ones who will one day build, hint, a new Jerusalem.

Speaker 1 If this sounds familiar, this is pretty much the same thing Chad Daybell believed. Just substitute white for Mormon, and it's the same thing.
It's the same thing anyway. And

Speaker 1 yeah, yeah, the religion that didn't let black people in until 1978. Yeah, now they always have, they'll always have one.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Naomi Perrigan, a really funny comedian, said that bit the other day.

Speaker 1 It's like she always lasers in on the one black person that is in every one of these scenarios and always like, how did you get there? Yeah.

Speaker 1 And, you know, it's not a coincidence that the Christian identity movement is big in Idaho, which is where Chad Daybell, of course, decided to build his own New Jerusalem.

Speaker 1 Now, the posse comitatus movement faded in the 80s after a member got into an inevitable shootout with federal law enforcement. Happens quite a bit with these guys.
But Barry Cox. Good ones.

Speaker 1 But Barry Cox, Lori Vallo's father, nevertheless joined this highly racist right-wing movement and declared himself a sovereign citizen that same decade.

Speaker 1 I saw a group of people, delusional, racist, anti-government, and my first thought was, finally, my people.

Speaker 1 Just as Barry's daughter Lori is now defending herself in court for her second murder trial, Barry Cox took one law class and believed that he could, acting as his own attorney, validly argue in court against the United States government that he had no tax liability.

Speaker 1 Therefore, he stopped paying taxes in the 1980s. So, how'd that work out? Badly.
We're going to get to that here in a bit.

Speaker 1 What's your say I'm going to do? According to the, I'm looking at several of these old statutes here, like not going to give it.

Speaker 1 And here called, I saw this is called Go Fuck Yourself versus Suck My Dick.

Speaker 1 chapter 9 through 14 I'm going to reference where I'm going to say you can take my tax money concern and shove it in my own cock and box.

Speaker 1 Fuck you, you fucking pieces of shit.

Speaker 1 That's all software citizens do. Yep.
Well, more punctuation. You're right.

Speaker 1 Well, eventually, Barry also became an author who released his very own e-book in 2019 called How the American Public Can Dismantle the IRS. Here's the IRS's address.
Get a pickaxe.

Speaker 1 All you have to do is start from the bottom. Eventually, the top of the building will topple.

Speaker 1 Over 421 indecipherable pages, Barry mixes all the modern conspiracy keywords like cabal, deep state, and Satanism with passages from both the Bible and the Book of Mormon.

Speaker 1 And all this is to argue about why paying taxes makes you what else? Here's another keyword. A zombie.
Oh, shit, the Z word. First time we're going to hear it today.

Speaker 1 I fucking hate when people suck so much. They make you root for the IRS.
Isn't that sad? Yeah, it is sad. It is sad.
Yeah, the NSA are suffering right now. They're really scared for their jobs.

Speaker 1 And honestly, it's just nice to be here as an open member of the NSA to say thanks again, guys, and go, Russia.

Speaker 1 We're coming for you, America. Yeah, you've gone from shill to straight up member.

Speaker 1 That's amazing.

Speaker 1 I'm out now, dude. It's really good.
I'm proud of you. It feels good.
Yeah, I don't have to keep the secret anymore. It's been driving me nuts for years.
It's so nice to finally just be proud.

Speaker 1 You got your espionage badge, right? Yes. Yes.
Yes. You'll see.

Speaker 1 This fable is known as the White Horse Prophecy, and it is key to the understanding of this entire story to know that Lori Vallo was raised raised believing that everything I'm about to say is 100% the truth.

Speaker 1 Now the White Horse prophecy is a sort of Mormon urban legend, a piece of apocrypha not officially recognized by the LDS Church as canon, but it is said to be a prophecy made by none other than Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism.

Speaker 1 Now the story goes that Joseph Smith revealed this prophecy to only one man.

Speaker 1 This man claimed that Smith told him that the Mormon people will eventually go to the Rocky Mountains, where they will establish a society of great and mighty people.

Speaker 1 These people will collectively be known as the White Horse of Peace and Safety. Joseph Smith continued the prophecy, saying that the enemies of the Mormon people, i.e.

Speaker 1 the United States government, would continue to impose their will on the Mormon people by making quote-unquote obnoxious laws in order to destroy the White Horse of Peace and Safety.

Speaker 1 Laws like no polygamy and no more marrying underage girls. But how am I supposed to get a girl? Only girls under 13 understand me.

Speaker 1 Mormons are so impatient. Just wait for them to be old.
No, that's the worst, Eddie, because then they're old. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And you've missed the chance to indoctrinate them and train them and mold them to be exactly what you want. You also don't get to experience their sweet, precious bud of youth.

Speaker 1 Hey, white horse, nay means nay.

Speaker 1 Now to protect the white horse, and just it's important to know the white horse is the Mormon people. It's like, imagine a Trojan horse, and all the Mormon people are inside.

Speaker 1 Kind of. Okay, sure.
Smith said that the Mormons must continue to petition Congress constantly, but Congress will refuse to give Mormons their rights and will instead govern them from the outside.

Speaker 1 Now, this might sound like the Mormons wanted to break away from the United States. Yeah, Marcus.
But they actually very much want to be a part of our country.

Speaker 1 They kind of have a have your cake and eat it too type of situation going on. I think they want to own the bakery, Marcus.
Yes, I think so too.

Speaker 1 Basically, the Mormons were hiding behind the concept of religious freedom in order to do whatever they wanted to do.

Speaker 1 Mormons are therefore big proponents of the Constitution because the freedom of religion clause in the First Amendment works as a sort of loophole for all the nefarious shit they get up to.

Speaker 1 According to them, thinking that just if you make it a religious right, then it should be protected by those laws. So you could make having a child bride a religious right.

Speaker 1 You could make killing people. people because they're unsavable a right.

Speaker 1 You can make these things because, and then their real goal, in the end let's face it their real goal is total subjugation of all of us and a complete theocracy of the united states of america but we're not there yet because only mainly just because we're just we everybody really likes tits and i really think that's the main thing keeping us from a full theocracy is that we really like tits and we like pussy and we like dicks and we like having a good time we like budweiser commercials like we like it too much yeah and that's the problem that's what the mormons don't understand well and i also think that the mormons their goal for the rest of us is not subjugation, but straight-up murder.

Speaker 1 Oh, this one's just a matter of time. They'd very much just like all of us to be dead.

Speaker 1 Well, the Mormon idea is they'll just close their eyes and have a peaceful sleep and wake up and we'll be gone and not have to really deal with the fact that we all were murdered by God.

Speaker 1 So they're so lazy they won't even kill us themselves? Oh, they should too. That's why we have Lori Vallo and Chad Dayball.
It's a change, be the change you want to see.

Speaker 1 But didn't they just kill their own? Yeah, well, that was... a beginning.
That was a start. They stopped being their own because they became zombies.

Speaker 1 Now, according to the White Horse prophecy, the Mormons would live to see a day sometime in the future in which the Constitution would be nearly destroyed, that it would, quote, hang like a thread as fine as silk fiber.

Speaker 1 And by the way, hanging by a thread, that's a Mormon dog whistle. If you hear someone say, this country is hanging by a thread, that usually means they're a follower of the White Horse prophecy.

Speaker 1 It's kind of a little code so people know what you're talking about. Glenn Beck used to say it all the time.
Glenn Beck, big Mormon. It's really, it's true.
Converted.

Speaker 1 Like, when you click these things, it's completely real. All of these are are like the hanging by a thread thing.
You think that that's silly until you start to hear prophets say it.

Speaker 1 They talk about it. They use it as a term.
We had senators say it. Orrin Hatch used to say it.
Senator Orrin Hatch out of Utah used to say hanging by a thread all the time.

Speaker 1 See, when I hear something's hanging by a thread, my instinct is to like, help it.

Speaker 1 You know, no. The way they think to help it is to tear the thread.

Speaker 1 Well, once the constitution, well, kind of, sort of. Well, I mean, that's not silly, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, once the Constitution is, quote, hanging by a thread, that would be a signal for the Mormons, aka the White Horse of Peace and Safety, to rise up and save the United States from the rest of us sinners.

Speaker 1 Save the United States.

Speaker 1 Most importantly, though, the rising up of the White Horse. You can't do air quotes on fucking radio.
I do

Speaker 1 video. That's for me.
The majority of the people who consume this show are listening to it in audio form-only format. It's for me.

Speaker 1 If you want to know what Henry's air quoting, please join the Patreon and watch

Speaker 1 for video content. Video episodes of every single episode of Last Podcast on the left.

Speaker 1 But most importantly, though, the rising up of the white horse would be a sign that Armageddon was imminent, as the white horse is what else but a direct reference to the four horsemen of the apocalypse from the book of Revelation, behold a pale horse, and all that.

Speaker 1 But that's all to say that the white horse prophecy directly ties the policies of the United States government to the end of the world, and it makes the Mormons the central characters in both the end times and in the story of America at large.

Speaker 1 And the goal is to bring the end of the world here.

Speaker 1 They want it, they're really excited for it because the tribulations are going to kill all of us, and then they get to go live in their Mormon paradise.

Speaker 1 If the four horsemen ever came to America, they'd have to race in the Kentucky Derby. That would be what a delight, what a get.
And it's pestilence by a nose. Oh, yeah, everybody.

Speaker 1 And the nose has fallen off.

Speaker 1 Enjoy your mint juleps, everybody. everybody.
We'll be your last one.

Speaker 1 Now, Lori Vallow grew up believing that the White Horse prophecy was totally real, and that belief only got stronger throughout her life.

Speaker 1 See, the White Horse Prophecy creates a sort of alternate universe for Mormonism's more fringe members to live within, a world where Mormons are exceptional beings who sort of but don't really have to live by the same rules as the rest of us.

Speaker 1 In addition to the White Horse Prophecy, Lori Vallow was also raised with the narcissistic delusion of sovereign citizenship, a world of magical thinking, where she can live by her own rules and beliefs simply by stubbornly forging ahead.

Speaker 1 This is also a world of right-wing extremism, because while the followers of the White Horse Prophecy say they want to protect the Constitution, it's really the amendments that they have a big problem with.

Speaker 1 Which is like half the Constitution. It's a lot of it.

Speaker 1 For them, the abolition of slavery, the implementation of federal income tax, and giving the women the right to vote, those were the real assaults on the Constitution.

Speaker 1 And the the less conservative America gets, the more these people freak out in increasingly destructive and dangerous ways. Like, say, I don't know, killing your own children.

Speaker 1 But hey, the killing of their own children was supposed to be for all of our good, Marcus.

Speaker 1 And that wasn't the original Constitution, right? Yeah, kill a child. Yeah, if you want to vote, kill a child.
That's a great way to do it.

Speaker 1 I feel like the only way you should be able to vote is if you have received an abortion. I think those are the only people who should vote.
Okay. Yep.
All right.

Speaker 1 I thought you meant like you had to bring bring like a child's corpse to the polling booth. If you can, yeah.

Speaker 1 Please. Like that's going to be one of the big, that's going to be one of the big new changes.
No, I've paid for an abortion that had nothing to do with me. Does that mean I can vote? Was it for fun?

Speaker 1 No, it was for whatever. Did you just hang out outside of the clinic?

Speaker 1 Is that the how you met Julie?

Speaker 1 Is this how you meet women? Back in the day, one of my cooks knocked up a waitress and I needed them both at work.

Speaker 1 You're disgusting. You're literally Tom Harrison.
Like that is a that's disgusting, Eddie. You did it for the most evil reasons.
It's like William Randolph Hearst.

Speaker 1 Hell,

Speaker 1 get it down to the be here by 4.30. Wrap it up, all right?

Speaker 1 There's no time for crying. All right, we'll all once just to make, we'll get it past this.
Let's just listen to Ben Fold's brick one time just for the fake because we'll get through this once.

Speaker 1 I put the petty in petty cash.

Speaker 1 Also, Barry Cox believed in the concept of the lower 95. Yeah.
That was a thing that he used to say all the time. What's that mean? So he said that they were in the top 5% of humankind.

Speaker 1 The whole Cox family. The whole Cox family.
Laurie, Adam, Alex, all of them. They were better than everybody.
They were powerful. They were hotter, more fashionable.
They were better than everybody.

Speaker 1 So that's why Barry only slept with them. Yes.

Speaker 1 Exactly. Why would you, how would you go out and get steak when you have hamburger at home?

Speaker 1 He literally is a. he, but he would say that all the time.
Anybody did something dumb in front of him, he would always be like, that's the lower 95 for you. That was what he'd say.

Speaker 1 And so he kind of also, this idea that there are expendables here. But again, let's not get too far ahead of ourselves and let's rejoin Lori Vallo in the mid-90s in Austin, Texas.

Speaker 1 Now, within a few years, Lori had gotten together with the man who would become her second husband. And in April of 1996, she gave birth to her first son, Colby.

Speaker 1 As it was with her first husband, Lori also claimed that her second was abusive, saying that he physically and drunkenly assaulted her multiple times, even going so far as to threaten to kill her when she was pregnant, which he very well may have.

Speaker 1 But in the end, Lori's second marriage was only a little longer than the first, and she was divorced again by 1998.

Speaker 1 Lori, however, wasn't the only person in the Cox family having troubles, as it seems like the Coxes were in a near constant state of crisis throughout the mid to late 90s. They love drama.

Speaker 1 The Coxes love drama. And everybody around them.
I also feel like I'm just going to go out and say, big old blanket statement. Mormons love drama.
Yeah. Because their lives are fucking boring.

Speaker 1 They have a very popular

Speaker 1 reality show. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Very, very fucking true. Yeah.
And the easiest way to inject drama into your life is polygamy. And fucking.
Yeah. Just literally fucking.
And these guys all would fuck interfuck.

Speaker 1 These the ward drama sounds so fucking exhausting and so stupid.

Speaker 1 and the way that they talk about their wards as if they were mystically placed in Rexburg oh you were mystically placed in Clarkston Idaho

Speaker 1 the only people that were mystically placed in our Clarkston Idaho were the fucking Robins like literally the birds you are not you just were born there yeah and then they're like well it's our ward so we have to stay here and so they all have to interfight and say take it super seriously and everybody's up their own fucking ass now where do the mormons stand on divorce?

Speaker 1 Cannot be divorced. That's why they kill so many of their wives.
That's why they kill them. Wow, okay.
It's because the stakes are so high. Those are the things, too.

Speaker 1 Remember, is that that's also what's horrible: your entire family lives in the ward. That's where your home is.
That's the only thing you've ever known.

Speaker 1 The religious family that you've surrounded by, that's the only group you've ever known.

Speaker 1 And every single one of these sins, every single one of them, involves some form of excommunication, slash, extreme punishment, slash extreme way to get your penance.

Speaker 1 I read a book called The Miracle of Forgiveness, which is a horrendous book, which is the one of the... But let's not get too far off.

Speaker 1 Sorry.

Speaker 1 I mean here now. Basically, they say the homosexuality is bestiality, and it's just a black mark on the whole.
They're the fucking worst. Well, you are an animal.

Speaker 1 Tear you in.

Speaker 1 Excuse me. Let me get my lube.
I just have my anal jelly here waiting for me anytime I need it. Swiss Navy Bram with clove oil.

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Join the Swiss Navy. We didn't get paid for this.

Speaker 1 Someone just sent this in the mail. Yeah, someone sent us a big, extra large bottle of Swiss Navy anal lube.
Yes, they sent it in the mail. M-A-L-A-N-E-T.

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Speaker 1 Let's get into some of the dramas. of the Cox family in the mid-late 90s.

Speaker 1 First, Lori's brother Alex got excommunicated from the LDS church after his ex-wife made claims of sexual promiscuity, which put put Alex on the ounce with the Mormon establishment for good.

Speaker 1 And I think how Lori Vallo and Alex got around this, correct me if I'm wrong, how they got around divorce is that until Chad Daybell, every man that Lori Vallo married was a non-Mormon.

Speaker 1 Like they were all, they all, not all of them did, most of them converted, but not all.

Speaker 1 So I think because she was not married within the church and was not like sealed within the church to another like lifelong Mormon, there's all kinds of fucking loopholes and ways around it.

Speaker 1 And it's not like they're in a sort of like FLDS community, like a fundamentalist community where they could be murdered for doing something like divorce.

Speaker 1 They're kind of living with one foot in the secular world and one foot in the Mormon world. Well, so there's no Mormon chapels in Vegas.
There is. There is.
Really? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 There must be a temple in Nevada. Yeah, there's definitely a temple somewhere.
Well, a temple. I'm saying like an all-night wedding chapel.
They don't do it like that. No.
They don't do it like that.

Speaker 1 I mean, I wish it'd be fun.

Speaker 1 But Lori Vallo did get married in Vegas twice.

Speaker 1 But she's, I also feel like with Lori specifically, see, Mormons, again, they're so obsessed with their parents and they're so obsessed with it that like, I think sometimes they let people slide that are really quote unquote good looking Mormons.

Speaker 1 Could be.

Speaker 1 Well, around the same time that Alex was excommunicated, Lori's older sister, Stacey, was also going through a divorce in addition to a custody battle with her husband and a rapidly deteriorating mental state.

Speaker 1 And that mental state was incurred by growing up in what her husband called the psychological hornet's nest that was the Cox family.

Speaker 1 Well, concerning Stacy Cox, because of Janice's constant fat shaming of her children, Stacy developed an eating disorder and had declared after having her only child that all food was poison.

Speaker 1 As a result of Stacy's delusion and the lifestyle that went with it, her daughter's teeth grew in without enamel because of a lack of calcium, and her husband would be given custody because of Stacy's instability and neglect.

Speaker 1 But as we'll see time and again, the Cox family does not take kindly to one of their own being crossed. At one point during the breakup, Barry Cox showed up at Stacy's husband's place of work.

Speaker 1 He slammed him against a wall, screamed Mormon scripture into his face, and stuffed divorce papers down his shirt.

Speaker 1 The whole Stacy saga only ended when Stacy fell into a coma and died in May of 1998 at the age of 31 after years of being in and out of the hospital because of her eating disorder and because of complications from type 1 diabetes.

Speaker 1 Type 1 diabetes, you need food. Yes.
Oh, yeah. It's a major part of it.

Speaker 1 It is. Yeah, yeah.
It's the main part. Yeah.
Now, soon after Stacey's death, the government finally came for Barry Cox.

Speaker 1 After years of so-called paper terrorism, in which sovereign citizens like Barry clog up the courts with frivolous lawsuits and endless paperwork, Barry was finally sentenced to a year in prison for tax evasion and was ordered to pay a quarter million in back taxes.

Speaker 1 I do not have

Speaker 1 this money.

Speaker 1 What happens if I do not have the money available at any point in my natural life? I would like to have anybody who's ever not said that to a creditor to do it once.

Speaker 1 It's really fun. You've done it.
You taught me. Like, sometimes you just, I used to pick it up and eventually be like, I have nothing.

Speaker 1 I remember one time talking to a credit card debtor, and I was like, so if if I pay you, I can't pay my rent or buy food, but then I just have paid you. And they were like, exactly.

Speaker 1 And I was like, conversation's over.

Speaker 1 Lori, however, was still attempting to live the life of her mother's world because at 27 years old, Lori met and married her third husband, a man 16 years her senior named Joe Ryan, who converted to Mormonism for Lori.

Speaker 1 Soon after his conversion, Lori was pregnant again, and she gave birth to her daughter, Tylee, in 2002. Tylee, of course, would be one of the two children that Lori would one day come to murder.

Speaker 1 Now, Lori's third husband, Joe Ryan, was said to be quick to anger, and the marriage fell apart fast.

Speaker 1 He was again abusive, but instead of leaving her husband like she did the other two, Lori began to inch closer into the world of her father.

Speaker 1 She threw herself into Mormonism completely and got real weird with it real fast.

Speaker 1 During the early 2000s, Lori could be found dancing by herself in an empty room filled with mirrors while listening to religious music, which Lori said was her form of meditation and her way of getting closer to God.

Speaker 1 Now, that's a Laura Palmer scene right there, if I ever fucking heard one. Oh, you heard just like

Speaker 1 oh, Jesus, got your hands on my face.

Speaker 1 Oh, Jesus, got your finger in my pussy.

Speaker 1 It's too bad Instagram Live wasn't around yet.

Speaker 1 What do you think? Question: TikTok saves the kids or

Speaker 1 gets them to the grave faster?

Speaker 1 What do you think?

Speaker 1 Podcasting certainly didn't help. No,

Speaker 1 it accelerated the whole thing. Yeah, podcasting made it way worse.
No,

Speaker 1 I think we're talking about a zero-sum thing here. I don't think TikTok helps or hurts.
But the thing about TikTok, you could see that she's hot. Yeah, I guess so.
Yeah. Paris.
But she's not hot.

Speaker 1 She's not that hot.

Speaker 1 I keep calling her so hot. Well, just because it's in Idaho and she's standing next to Chad Daybell.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, anyone looks hot when you're standing next to an uncooked pancake. Like

Speaker 1 a dollop of a man, he is. He's a dollop.

Speaker 1 Well, even stranger than the dancing was Lori's increasingly bizarre beliefs about the dead, such as her belief that her daughter Tylie was the reincarnation of Lori's recently deceased sister, Stacey.

Speaker 1 Lori also began edging into the more esoteric side of Mormonism, Daybell territory, when she claimed that spirits from beyond the veil were giving her daily instructions on how to live every aspect of her life.

Speaker 1 Now, this really goes to show you, you never really know what the people you see on TV are thinking. You never do.

Speaker 1 Because it was around this time that Lori Vallo appeared as a contestant on Wheel of Fortune. She placed second and won over $17,000.
She solved one puzzle, named four characters on the love boat.

Speaker 1 The captain

Speaker 1 captain.

Speaker 1 Mr. Pete.
Yeah, Mr. Pete.

Speaker 1 Who's the guy that checks vaginas to see if they've been disturbed? Oh, Snapper Jake. Yeah.
Yeah. Love Snapper Jake.
Miss. God, he's great.
God, he was great.

Speaker 1 I wonder if she got along with Vanna Whitehorse. Whoa,

Speaker 1 that's a good burlesque name.

Speaker 1 You know, you joke about that, but I would imagine that she saw some sort of sign in that and Vanna White's name. You know, like she probably did.
These people see signs in everything.

Speaker 1 They see their own worldview reflected back to them. And, you know, Vanna White just has to deal with it when she goes and shakes her hand.

Speaker 1 Do you think that anyone ever met Pat Sajak and he was like, hi, I'm Pat Sajak. And then they would be like, Jack.

Speaker 1 And then he jacks them in the face. Just fucking disrespect me.
All right. I do.
People come to me with nothing. You spin a wheel and walk away millionaires.

Speaker 1 Yep, that's the little known fact about Pat Sajak, massive bare knuckle boxer. Oh,

Speaker 1 one of those like Irish guys.

Speaker 1 That's how he got the job. Now, it seems like Lori was enjoying the attention she was getting.

Speaker 1 As a few months after being on Wheel, she entered the Miss Hayes County Beauty Pageant and she won, which made her eligible for the Miss Texas pageant.

Speaker 1 When Lori was interviewed by the judges, though, she made a statement that at the time was somewhat innocent, but in hindsight is fucking chilling.

Speaker 1 When Lori Vallo was asked what made her tick, she said, quote, Being a good mom is very important to me, and a good wife and a good worker. Being all those things together is not easy.

Speaker 1 So basically, I'm a ticking time bomb.

Speaker 1 I feel like there's so many game show contestants that have killed somebody.

Speaker 1 We talked about one like a month ago.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. A few weeks ago.
Yeah, newly went murders. It happens a fair amount.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's just you take any sample from anything, and there's going to be a fair amount of murderers in it. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Plumbers. Yeah.
Rob.

Speaker 1 I don't know. He won't enough.
He won't even give it up.

Speaker 1 Well, of course, being a ticking time bomb, that's not a winning answer to the Miss Texas patch. No, it's frightening.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Now, because of the frequent physical abuse and some alleged sexual abuse committed by Lori's third husband, Lori filed for divorce from Joe Ryan in August of 2004 and engaged in a lengthy custody battle for her daughter, Tylee.

Speaker 1 Now, Lori's son, Colby, did say years later, he said it. Very clearly in the Netflix documentary, that Joe Ryan was sexually abusive and physically abusive.

Speaker 1 But Lori Vallo took these allegations to the next level during the custody fight, telling investigators that she would rather kill her children than give Ryan custody.

Speaker 1 But after multiple investigations found that not only had there been no sexual abuse, but that Lori had been coaching her kids to tell abuse stories, it was decreed that Joe and Lori share custody of Tylee when the two of them were finally divorced in 2005.

Speaker 1 There is a very disturbing

Speaker 1 line through,

Speaker 1 which is obviously we believe everybody. You want to believe people when they say they're getting abused, right?

Speaker 1 And but Lori Vallo, you can't take away the end result of all this away from the way she treated people her whole life.

Speaker 1 She used people as tools and she really did, I want to say, get a kick. out of ruining people's lives.
She did it several times. It is not just within this context.
She used to lie.

Speaker 1 I guess that's what it is. I'm steeped in all the other side stories about Lori.
You start to see this whole picture that she

Speaker 1 really would turn people against each other all the time. And she'd lie all the time.
She was probably close to a pathological liar.

Speaker 1 Everybody got a different story about what she was doing and who did what and what at all times. So at some point,

Speaker 1 I think that Lori is, I think bad things happen to her, but I also think she's massively full of shit. So I think that you just, it throws doubt on all the stuff that she talks about.

Speaker 1 Well, I think, I mean, if you talk to

Speaker 1 Colby Ryan,

Speaker 1 Dad was not a nice yeah, he said clearly, like, he was physically abusive. He also said he was sexually abusive.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 I think she had a pattern. Like, I think she definitely, like, did have like three abusive men, like, in a row.

Speaker 1 But her fourth husband, Charles Vallo, I don't know if she always made up stories about all these guys because she, you know, didn't do that with Charles. She did, though.
But not in the abuse way.

Speaker 1 She did. She said that he molested Tylie.

Speaker 1 Did she say that? Yes. She throws it around.
She threw it. She kept throwing it around.
And it's just like when you drop it three times,

Speaker 1 that's when it just gets to a point where like now you're fucking, you're trying to hurt. Like I'm weaponizing.
So like weaponizing something. You're weaponizing something.

Speaker 1 I don't know what it is, but you're doing something. I don't know what the fuck it is.
And again, if she didn't kill her kids, it'd be different.

Speaker 1 Colby seems on the level, though, after watching the dog. He does.
Yeah, he does seem on the level. Yeah.
He has a whole podcast where he talks about this. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, not too long after her divorce, Lori filed for bankruptcy, owing three-quarters of a million dollars to creditors, including, like father-like daughter, a hundred grand in back taxes.

Speaker 1 Wow, proud. Yeah.
All that was fixed, however, when Lori met her fourth husband, the long-suffering Charles Vallow. At 49 years old, Charles was another older man.

Speaker 1 As such, he already had two sons of his own and had just divorced from his first wife when he met Lori.

Speaker 1 Described as tall and strikingly handsome, Charles Vallow seemed to just be, well, normal dude, middle-of-the-road guy, a financial planner, earned about $250,000 a year.

Speaker 1 But that big salary meant that Lori had solved her debt problems, and the two of them frequently joked about her being a gold digger.

Speaker 1 Now, I could see how people could make that assumption because Lori and Charles were married within just a few months of meeting each other.

Speaker 1 They'd like met in the fall of 2005, married in the spring of 2006. By then, Lori Vallo had her fourth husband, whom she married in her second Vegas wedding.
The fourth wedding is a Reno wedding.

Speaker 1 We've done no fourth wedding's provo weddings.

Speaker 1 First wedding's always got to be a big deal, obviously. Second wedding, you should probably kind of keep quiet about it.
I think the second wedding is the quietest one.

Speaker 1 Third wedding is secretly, that's done inside of one of those places where you stop and you just get the form. Yeah.
And then I think fourth, you could do it again, big, being like, no, this one.

Speaker 1 I think the third one is the one when you make the big statement.

Speaker 1 I think that the third one has to be bigger than the first one because you've got to prove that you love that you really love this one more than the other two. The fourth one's circus circus.

Speaker 1 You're right.

Speaker 1 I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
I can't wait till my third one. It's officiated by a chimp.

Speaker 1 How fun is this? How nice is this? You got the banana? You got the banana for the pastor?

Speaker 1 Now, Charles Vallow's ex-wife more or less said that Charles could be a bit of a bastard. But in the ex-wife's view, Lori was just as unstable.
It's still an ex-wife's point of view, unfortunately.

Speaker 1 Yes. The ex-wife never felt safe having her two sons around Lori and claimed that Lori would drug her kids with Nyquil and sleeping pills just so she wouldn't have to deal with them.

Speaker 1 Even so, Lori and Charles were exactly what each other wanted. Charles Vallow wanted a young trophy wife, and as a 32-year-old beauty queen, Lori fit the bill.

Speaker 1 Charles, meanwhile, paid for Lori to go to Hawaii whenever she wanted, and she finally had a daddy who would succumb to her every whim. Okay, you just made it jump.
You know, you said it too.

Speaker 1 Like, you notice what you just said? What? The idea that she'd make it a habit to drug the kids with Nyquil and sleeping pills? Yeah.

Speaker 1 And how do you think they fucking Tylee and JJ went down in the beginning? I think that you can immediately see a line through. And, you know, more like a Casey Anthony's Annie the Nanny type thing.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I also think that their separation, I wouldn't even call him gold diggers because he's handsome.
If he was

Speaker 1 big and fat, it's different. Charles Vallo is handsome.
Oh, no. I don't think Lori Vallo was necessarily a gold digger.
I think she just liked someone to take care of her.

Speaker 1 And Charles Vallo, by all accounts.

Speaker 1 Charles Vallo, by all accounts, like truly loved Lori Vallo. I mean, fucking, unfortunately, he truly loved Lori Vallo.

Speaker 1 And he was, you know, more or less a fine man.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he wasn't like the best guy, but you know, he was all right. He was just a guy.
He was just a guy. Like, that's, I think at the end of the day, that's what Charles Vallo.

Speaker 1 Charles Vallo was just some fucking guy. And as much as dudes love bomb, women love bomb too.
A woman can go in there because like you'd be surprised what

Speaker 1 a well-placed piece of lingerie and a fucking a blowjob can do to a man's psyche. It's like I know it's ridiculous, but it really can break a man down.

Speaker 1 Now life was good for Lori and Charles Vallow even enthusiastically converted to the LDS church. But while Lori could have just settled into her new life, it seems like she was addicted to the drama.

Speaker 1 She very much had it out for her ex-husband Joe Ryan. And in 2006, she made an official report that Ryan had sexually abused her children.

Speaker 1 Now again, detectives and social workers found no evidence of molestation, and social worker reports noted that Lori appeared to be coaching Tylee to make accusations.

Speaker 1 But that was not the only thing the social workers noticed. Lori Vallo was quite obviously feeding her children fanatical Mormon dogma, in addition to telling them stories about ghosts being real.

Speaker 1 And she even told government officials that she consulted with a dead lawyer about her custody case when the spirit came to visit her in the night. It's me, your representation, Abraham Lincoln.

Speaker 1 I'm here to tell you: don't go out to see a play.

Speaker 1 That's my first piece of advice. My second piece of advice is: suck him while you got him.

Speaker 1 Because he's gay. Yes, yes, I know.
I know you know. Well aware.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm sorry. No, but also, this is not really fringe Mormon dogma, man.
You know, like, I did not realize how. No, I said fanatical.
I did not say fringe. Is this crazy?

Speaker 1 I did not know that they actually literally believed in reincarnation. Well, it's

Speaker 1 the reincarnation thing is, I looked this up and it's a

Speaker 1 gray area where the church doesn't officially say that you are reincarnated, but you can take the idea of pre-mortality, which, you know, we're going to talk about pre-mortality a little bit later, but you can take this Mormon idea that you existed before you were born, that you existed in the presence of the Heavenly Father before you were born, and you return to the Heavenly Father.

Speaker 1 And so, some of these things can be interpreted by saying that you kind of go back and forth between earth and heavenly father, even though it doesn't clearly say that.

Speaker 1 That's certainly how Chad Daybell interpreted it, and that's definitely how Laurie Vallo interpreted it.

Speaker 1 It certainly don't believe that you just become dirt. No, no, no, no.
No, because that would be a waste. Yeah, there's a lot of it, but there's just with Mormonism, there's just a million ways to

Speaker 1 interpret everything. And every ward's different.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But just like it happened when Barry Cox assaulted Stacey Cox's husband, there was something about the Cox family that inspired violence when one of them was seemingly threatened.

Speaker 1 And it was around this time that Lori's brother Alex stepped into the ring. But while Alex was definitely a psychopath, he was also an absolutely ridiculous person.

Speaker 1 See, radio DJ Adam Cox was not the only member of the family to try his hand at entertainment. By 2007, Alex Cox was living in Phoenix, Arizona, working a day job installing port-a-potties.

Speaker 1 But But at night, he was also one of the worst open-mic stand-up comedians in town. God, in Phoenix.

Speaker 1 You can imagine the worst open mic stand-up in Phoenix.

Speaker 1 As per the memory of one of Alex's friends back in Phoenix, Alex was a bit of an impressionist. Ran the gamut of impressions, both baffling and hacky.
Not me.

Speaker 1 From cartoon characters like Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, and Homer Simpson, to movie icons like Hannibal Lecter and weirdly Mrs. Doubtfire.

Speaker 1 And everyone knows the best stand-up sets are always repeated phrases for movies you've seen. Yes.
And doing movies and TV shows.

Speaker 1 That's the way to do it because then people go, oh yeah, yeah, I remember that. Tried by fruiting.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, baby.
Yeah, baby. She's a mad baby.
That's Holden's bit. All right, don't steal that.

Speaker 1 That's Holden's stolen.

Speaker 1 Can't steal the stealing.

Speaker 1 But Alex's friend in Phoenix also said that Alex was always always a little off mentally and very easy to manipulate.

Speaker 1 Particularly, this friend said that Alex was easily manipulated by his sister, Lori. Yes.

Speaker 1 In a display that was described as both awkward and weird, this friend said that Lori would parade around Alex in a bikini, obviously trying to titillate him.

Speaker 1 It's just nice to see all you other brothers look around. You don't got a sister built like that.

Speaker 1 And so I'm like, I look at her and sounding around, knowing that she's representing me everywhere I go. My heart, big-titted sister hi alex does this thong right up my ass actually let me adjust it

Speaker 1 let me adjust it

Speaker 1 now as i mentioned earlier alex would be directly responsible for many of the deaths that occurred around chad dayll and lori valo's orbit but it seems like lori had been going to alex to do her dirty work for decades did you ever hear the story about him getting a head injury No, big cat.

Speaker 1 It's just fucking obvious. Is it short? No, it's just he had a car accident and and he came back never the same.
That's what they all said.

Speaker 1 It was that there was a thing in here where he was in a coma for two days after a car accident and he came out and he was fucking just a shell of himself. So after his NBE, he didn't become a god?

Speaker 1 No, unfortunately, he wasn't shown the preview of the rest of the world by God. Nope.

Speaker 1 Well, in 2007, Lori Vallo manipulated her brother into driving from Phoenix to Austin to attack her ex-husband, Joe Ryan.

Speaker 1 Although it's said that what Lori originally had planned was far more sinister. See, Lori had been firing up Alex for months by telling him that Joe Ryan had been molesting her children.

Speaker 1 So Alex became obsessed with taking vengeance without Lori ever having to convince him to actually do it.

Speaker 1 So, after Joe had a supervised visit with Tylee at a facility one day, Alex Cox suddenly appeared before Joe in a parking lot as Joe was walking to his car.

Speaker 1 Alex began yelling, then pulled out a taser and buried it deep into Joe's chest as a sharp crackle filled the air.

Speaker 1 After being tased, Joe fell to the ground, but quickly got up and started running and calling for help, while Alex got in his Pontiac Grand Prix and drove away. But this had not been the plan.

Speaker 1 Lori Vallo and her daughter Tylie were actually watching the whole thing unfold from Alex's car because Lori had orchestrated the entire attack.

Speaker 1 According to Adam Cox, aka DJ Bo Nasty, the plan was to kill Joe Ryan that day by tasing him, throwing him in the trunk of the Pontiac, driving him out to a field, shooting him, and burying him.

Speaker 1 What is it about Pontiacs and murderers? Casey Anthony, also with the Pontiac Sunfire. I just think it's got a fun look.
It's got a vibe. It's kind of like it's vibe-y.
It's getting drunk. Yeah.

Speaker 1 In the end, though, Joe still came away from the incident with a broken wrist and severe chest pains.

Speaker 1 The tasing caused him to suffer heart problems for the rest of his life, and he soon after developed developed a nasty drinking problem to deal with the horrible shambles that his life had become.

Speaker 1 Now, this is just, it's fascinating that she watched the whole thing and she kind of orchestrated it.

Speaker 1 I'm so jealous of this relationship. I want to commit a crime with Jackie.

Speaker 1 I want to commit a crime with my sister.

Speaker 1 I bet you guys have committed like five felonies together already. You don't even know it.

Speaker 1 In college, yeah, in Tallahassee. Oh, I want to kill my sister.
It's fun to do.

Speaker 1 Fucking look how close they were. They were fixing each other's underwear.

Speaker 1 Henry was innocent in college. Jackie, not so much.
Yeah, she was the one that did the dirty things. I was making art.

Speaker 1 You know, it was probably easy. So if Barry Cox most likely molested all these kids, it was probably really easy for her to convince.
Adam or was it Alex to

Speaker 1 Alex to fucking go after this guy for molesting her kids. Possibly.
They had a very open sexual relationship. Barry Cox and Janice Cox used to talk about their fucking with their kids.

Speaker 1 The kids used to repeat it to the rest of the family as a funny little jokes. They all were always inappropriately touching each other as a family.
And so it came from the up top. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then Alex also said in his stand-up that he did it in the nuts, not in the chest. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Don't exaggerate.

Speaker 1 Nah, every stand-up says, like, you know, I was on my way to the veterinarian today. It's never real.
Stand-ups are fucking lying to you guys.

Speaker 1 Not all of them. I mean, you know, only, you know, I mean, mean, Hassan Minaj is a truthful man.

Speaker 1 Got him.

Speaker 1 Now, later, Lori admitted that she had searched the Book of Mormon for some justification to kill her ex-husband without guilt or retribution from God.

Speaker 1 And she believed that she'd found it in a compilation of Joseph Smith revelations called Doctrine and Covenants. Was that recorded live? Is that a bootleg?

Speaker 1 It was in the index.

Speaker 1 Doctrine and Covenants, live at Red Rocks. Yeah.

Speaker 1 The passage said, quote, And then, if he shall come upon you or your children or your children's children into the third and fourth generation, I have delivered thine enemy into thine hands.

Speaker 1 This line, Lori Vallo believed, was the Book of Mormon telling her that it was not only morally fine to murder her ex-husband, but religiously sound as well. And it's written down.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Now, Alex Cox was naturally arrested for aggravated assault with a deadly weapon for attacking Joe Ryan. He was given a paltry sentence of 90 days, but even that, Alex thought, was too harsh.

Speaker 1 He thought that he should have been hailed as a hero, and he even worked his nearly fatal assault into a bit for a stand-up comedy routine. You got to write what you know.
Sure. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Violet massively almost killed. He should have written all about what it was like to almost kill your sister.
There's some funny shit in that, I bet.

Speaker 1 Oh, man, he must have missed at least eight minutes. God, I wish he was on the moth.

Speaker 1 It's a fucking terrible routine. Like, it's out there.
You know, you can see it.

Speaker 1 But yeah, it's just him warbling on about it. I thought I was going to get a medal.

Speaker 1 Yeah, apparently it's a felony in Texas to tase a pedophile.

Speaker 1 I am surprised that it is. Do you want to play it at all?

Speaker 1 Do you want to play any name stand-up? No, I don't want to give him a single bit of fucking air.

Speaker 1 And he's at least not getting paid for it now. No, he's not.

Speaker 1 Now, this incident seemed to bring Lori and her brother Alex even closer because soon after, Lori convinced her husband Charles to move the whole family to a suburb of Phoenix, just a few miles from where Alex lived.

Speaker 1 Life, however, was relatively uneventful for the next few years. But in 2012, Charles Vallow's nephew fathered a baby who was born premature.

Speaker 1 The nephew and the mother were both addicts, so social services put the baby in the care of Charles Vallow's sister, Kay Woodcock. By addict, do you mean like chocoholic? I mean like heroinaholic.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's so much worse than chocolate. Way less delicious.
Maybe methaholic. I'm not sure.
They were never truly, like, they were never that clear about it. That's maybe my sitcom, Methaholic.

Speaker 1 If it's 2012,

Speaker 1 that's still kind of like that in-between time between meth and heroin. Yeah, you're right.
Yeah, yeah. So could be either.
Could be both.

Speaker 1 Well, the child was Joshua Jackson, better known as JJ.

Speaker 1 Now, Charles' sister, Kay, was too old to raise a baby. So a few months after gaining custody, Charles and Lori adopted JJ.
And as a result, J.J.

Speaker 1 Vallo would be the other child to die under Lori Vallo's care.

Speaker 1 Now, two years after they adopted JJ, Lori finally realized the Cox family dream when she convinced her husband to move the family to Hawaii, which was also a bit of a fuck you to Joe Ryan, because Joe Ryan had actually moved to Phoenix to be closer to his daughter.

Speaker 1 But it was in Hawaii that Lori Vallo and Chad Daybell's paths first began to cross. I can feel the vibes.
Yeah. I can feel the waves.
I can feel it.

Speaker 1 Ooh, God, just fucking those little, you got those Mormon underwear getting wet from how humid it is. It's getting really wet.
Gotta peel that off to get to that fucking geish, dude. Mahalo.

Speaker 1 Aloha! You will,

Speaker 1 you will address me as such.

Speaker 1 You will, you will follow the island regulation. I just want to say aloha.
I just want to say aloha to him.

Speaker 1 Well, in Hawaii, Lori discovered the world of Mormon near-death experience books, and she became a particular fan of the ribbon-twirling author we mentioned last week, Julie Rowe, who was published by Chad Daybell's company.

Speaker 1 Lori Vallo also became a huge fan of Julie Rowe's podcast, which led her directly to the avow message board that originally gave Chad Daybell his first big boost.

Speaker 1 From there, Lori Vallo discovered Chad Daybell's books and his podcast appearances. And Lori had soon read every book Chad ever wrote, including all of his awful fiction.

Speaker 1 The members of the Avow Message Board, by the way, were also big believers in the White Horse prophecy.

Speaker 1 And it's likely that this website was where Lori Vallo discovered the story about the 144,000 Mormons who would survive the apocalypse to witness the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 Dude, Julie Rowe is fucking insane. Yeah, she's crazy, man.
She's have you seen her TikToks? I have not. I have fallen into that hole, man.
Julie Rowe is absolutely ape shit. Looking great.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean it. She's tight as hell.
And she's. You love all these women.
There's something about these dangerous ass women. Julie Rowe kind of looks like the woman who plays Callie on Grey's Anatomy.

Speaker 1 She does. Yeah.
She does. And she's, but the earthquake's still coming.
Yeah. Earthquake's still coming.
Any day now. Any day now.

Speaker 1 It's so weird because she seems so rational in the dock, and then she'll just say the craziest shit out of nowhere. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Dude, you should watch this interview I did with the East Idaho New East East Idaho News with her an hour, unadulterated, uncut Julie Rowe, and she is fucking nuts.

Speaker 1 But she puts it forward too, that Chad might have been kind of angling for her to be the number one wife before he met Lori Vallo. Well, she's not blonde enough.
Nope.

Speaker 1 But at the same time that Lori was starting to fall completely into the highly attractive world of fantasy, her real life was getting more complicated.

Speaker 1 It soon became clear that the child she and Charles adopted, J.J.

Speaker 1 Vallow, soon became clear he was severely autistic, and he had to be constantly watched lest he sneak out of the house and wander the neighborhood.

Speaker 1 Charles Vallow worked all the time, he traveled a lot for work, so it became Lori's responsibility.

Speaker 1 Lori's son Colby also got married in 2018, and his new wife soon noticed the strange relationship Lori had with her son.

Speaker 1 Lori was terribly jealous and was said to have treated Colby more like a boyfriend than her own child. After Colby got married, Lori became distant as if her son had left her for another woman.

Speaker 1 It's not like my mom at all.

Speaker 1 Not at all.

Speaker 1 She was never like that. She never called anybody.
It was with a whore.

Speaker 1 She never just said me in like they're trying to take, they're just trying to take my son from me.

Speaker 1 It is like, I remember when my I broke up with my long-term girlfriend and it was the first Christmas with my mom afterwards.

Speaker 1 She's like, now that you don't have your girlfriend, it's nice that I get more presents.

Speaker 1 Thanks, mom. He's like, she's crying

Speaker 1 for the Christmas tree. Well, additionally, Charles and Lori's marriage was starting to show some wear.

Speaker 1 When Charles's mother died, Lori refused to go to the funeral, saying that she was somehow too busy. There's stuff floating around, man.

Speaker 1 It's hard for her to go, right? You can't just be like, you just dropped this funeral on me.

Speaker 1 Okay, if you really wanted me to go, you would have told me two weeks ago when I had already not done, because I have to get my belly frozen. Have you seen seen that?

Speaker 1 No, it's some kind of process where you get your belly frozen. Wow.
It hurts, apparently. I bet.

Speaker 1 But the one piece of good news from Lori's perspective was the objectively depressing death of Joe Ryan. His decomposing corpse was found in a Phoenix apartment after he'd been dead for weeks.

Speaker 1 But when Lori was informed of the death, she couldn't have been happier, telling her sister-in-law that Joe was evil and needed to die.

Speaker 1 Now, because of he's the guy who got tased, correct? Yeah. Now,

Speaker 1 if he got chest problems after that, they could have tied that to them. Probably.

Speaker 1 It's almost certain that Joe Ryan died of a heart attack because

Speaker 1 Alex Cox tased him. Now, why wouldn't he like 58 or something? Now, why wouldn't he get arrested for that then? Because they hard to press charges in the first place.

Speaker 1 He never went for the

Speaker 1 proof, but I knew immediately. Well, but that's the other thing, too, is that at this point, Joe Ryan's just a corpse in a fucking apartment in Phoenix.

Speaker 1 You know, he's a, he's, as far as the police are concerned, he's a divorced man with a bunch of pictures of his daughter around his apartment, a bunch of liquor bottles around who died of a heart attack.

Speaker 1 And no one cared about Joe Ryan. No one gave a shit.
I just got to say, I'm looking at this whole crime scene, and I got to say, what a life.

Speaker 1 Can't wait to do this myself.

Speaker 1 Amazing.

Speaker 1 Ah, something to look forward to.

Speaker 1 But you'll notice this is a running theme with Lori, is she likes to deal out death. She likes to say who needs to die and who deserves to live.

Speaker 1 And she's been doing, and she did this for a long time before she met Chad Daybell. That sort of thinking was already in her fucking brain.
Oh, they were just ready to meet.

Speaker 1 They were ready to be together. They're almost there.

Speaker 1 Now, by 2018, Lori Vallo was 45 years old and had become absolutely obsessed with the Mormon near-death experience world.

Speaker 1 Besides the works of Chad Daybell and Julie Rowe, Lori was also a fan of a book called The Second Comforter, written by a man with the unlikely name of Denver C. Snuffer Jr.

Speaker 1 Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That was the guy that molested Big Bird, actually, in this very sad episode of Sesame Street.

Speaker 1 That was really rough. I remember when Denver C.
Snuffer Jr. molested Big Bird.

Speaker 1 I do write. He was Oscar the Grouch's roommate, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Drifter.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he was a drifter. He lived in the trash can next to it.

Speaker 1 And the second comforter is also what saved my marriage.

Speaker 1 You know, me as well. Yep.
Get that second comforter, ladies and gentlemen. It's a game changer.
It really does make your life a lot better.

Speaker 1 I also did the second comforter. You have to.

Speaker 1 Fantastic.

Speaker 1 But in the Mormon world, you can't be into the near-death experience trip without also falling into the end times obsession because these two subjects were intrinsically linked by the time Lori arrived on the scene.

Speaker 1 So after the Vallo family moved back to Arizona, they don't live in Hawaii anymore, they're back in Arizona, Lori joined so many other neo-fundamentalist Mormons in becoming a doomsday prepper.

Speaker 1 Well, it makes sense because Arizona already looks like the set of Mad Max. True.

Speaker 1 Now by October of 2018, Lori Vallo had found her way to a Mormon end times class taught by a writer and so-called life coach, woman named Melanie Gibb. I hate Melanie Gibb.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Gibb, you may remember, had been inspired by Chad Daybell and had opened a local branch of the Doomsday Prepper Organization, Preparing of People in Arizona. It's preparing people.

Speaker 1 He made them know them better as Pap. Pap.

Speaker 1 Got your fucking house. You fucking idiot.
I knew it was coming. You fucking shit.
I knew I knew it was coming. I'm fucking

Speaker 1 on you while you sleep. I'm going to bring you your house.
I'm going to watch you sleep. No, that's getting me.
That's getting me. That's how I'm going to get you.
That's how I'm going to get you.

Speaker 1 If you do that, I'll say, you got me.

Speaker 1 Well, before long, Lori was a committed member of PAP as well. And with a receptive audience, her bullshit very quickly took off to the next level.

Speaker 1 At PAP meetings, Lori would claim that she no longer needed to sleep because angels would wake her up throughout the night to instruct her on how best to do God's work. She lived on angel energy.

Speaker 1 That's cool. You know, I mean, if you're going to live on anything, might as well make it angel energy.
It sounds cool. No, it doesn't.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's this is Charlie Sheen talk. Yeah, it is.
You know, like the idea of like angels. Tiger Blood.

Speaker 1 Like, Angels, I don't need to sleep. Angels, they just sleep before me.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it makes sense that Melanie Gibb would make it past the apocalypse because everyone knows that Gibbs are great at staying alive. Whoa.
Whoa!

Speaker 1 Yay! Thank you. Thank you.
Except for the one that died at AIDS. Yes.
Would he die at AIDS? He didn't die of AIDS. Yeah, he did.
No, he didn't. Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, one of the three of them died at AIDS. Three of them died of AIDS.

Speaker 1 Three of the DGs did not die of AIDS. No.
I thought Barry Gibb died of AIDS. Barry Gibb didn't die of AIDS.
No, she was crucified.

Speaker 1 He was crucified.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 No. That's right.
No, no, no, no. I remember now Jimmy Carter ran him over with a car.

Speaker 1 It's a visual joke you guys can't see my act out of.

Speaker 1 If I'm driving the car, that's Jimmy Carter. He's surprised that I'm going to die face.

Speaker 1 Obviously, influenced by Chad Daybell, Lori also claimed to be a personal witness of the resurrected Jesus Christ. And she said that she was regularly visited by the dead spirits of family members.

Speaker 1 God, she said, had also given her so-called pre-mortal memories.

Speaker 1 Premortal, as I said earlier, that's a Mormon term for the time people live in the presence of Heavenly Father before we're born on this earth.

Speaker 1 But in Laurie's premortal life, she claimed that she'd been a warrior for Christ fighting the forces of darkness in the pre-mortal world for millennia.

Speaker 1 And by the way, also, every time Lori, it fucking drives me nuts, every time Lori Vallo says the word millennia, she extends it into four staccato syllables. Millennia.
Yeah, it's fair. God.

Speaker 1 But when Lori said all this crazy shit to a gathering of PAP members, she got not blank stares or polite nodding, but raucous applause. It's like when I do shows in Florida instead of LA.

Speaker 1 And so the week after Lori was completely and totally validated for her extraordinarily arrogant beliefs, Melanie Gibb took Lori to a PAT conference in St. George, Utah.

Speaker 1 15 guest speakers were on the bill, but the one that Lori Vallo wanted to meet more than any of them was her favorite near-death experience author and podcaster, Chad Daybell. Mm-hmm, yummy, yum.

Speaker 1 And as soon as she saw him, the first thing she thought in my head was, man, oh man, I want a slice of that more man.

Speaker 1 I want that bowl of yogurt of a man. Nothing I want better

Speaker 1 to gargle the pouch of fat underneath his belly button

Speaker 1 so that I can properly serve ooh.

Speaker 1 I bet he comes oatmeal. Oh, I hope he does, because that's the only thing I can eat according to my religion.

Speaker 1 Damny, are you ready for my cream of wheat?

Speaker 1 Yes. Now, I saw the Mormon Girls website, and I feel like some of it is different there because it seems there they really want to make sure none of the seed is wasted.

Speaker 1 Do you think that normal Mormon ladies, do they, is it like doctrine to swallow?

Speaker 1 I don't know if blowjobs are necessarily Mormon-friendly. Side stories, L-P-O-T L at gmail.com.
I would actually really like to know.

Speaker 1 I bet they are. They're probably fine.
I mean, I guess it's between a consenting father and son, then it should be fine. I imagine if they're not using the vagina, it should be all good to go.

Speaker 1 I feel like it's the opposite. No, yeah, because the big Mormon thing is soaking.
Yes. But I just don't know if you swallow if it makes it legal because then it's food.

Speaker 1 Because then you're making food. Oh, and you're just, yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, gagging. Yeah.
We're done talking about cum? Yep. Okay.

Speaker 1 But Chad claimed that right before this conference in St. George, his so-called spiritual voice, the one that supposedly guided him in his everyday life.

Speaker 1 This voice told him that he would meet an extraordinary woman at the conference that day, a woman who would change his life forever. One day you will meet your Deborah.

Speaker 1 Dearest Chad.

Speaker 1 No, Chad, Deborah will make you happy. She will.

Speaker 1 Ramona Yoda.

Speaker 1 Well, conveniently, Chad had made himself totally free to meet whoever he wanted that weekend, as he'd left his wife and five children back home in Rexburg, Idaho, aka New Jerusalem, for this particular conference.

Speaker 1 And there ain't no such thing as cheating at a PAP conference, because what happens at a PAP conference stays at the PAP conference, and then it gets out. Yeah.
And it kills your children.

Speaker 1 But a PAP conference does sound like a bunch of women in their feet in a bunch of fucking the

Speaker 1 big, like a big PAP smear conference.

Speaker 1 Oh, there it is you know what I mean yeah I guess it sounds like that guy going in there with don't they use a hook yeah they use a hook what else do you think about pap smears what do you what else do you think happens down there I love them in the germs

Speaker 1 yes pat smear yeah

Speaker 1 germs

Speaker 1 all that

Speaker 1 goes good on a everything bagel I love a smear

Speaker 1 that's my favorite

Speaker 1 yum so after Chad went before the Pap conference and gave his halting awkward speech about the end times he sat down at his table to meet his fans and sign his books. There was tens of them.

Speaker 1 And who else should saunter up to Chad's sit-down with a big smile and a lot of adulation, but Lori Vallo? Hi.

Speaker 1 Lori told Chad that she'd read all of his books. And from what Melanie Gibbs said, Chad and Lori had instant chemistry, as if a lightning bolt had hit both of them.

Speaker 1 And indeed, it does seem like Chad and Lori went from zero to a hundred almost instantly.

Speaker 1 Well, Chad and Lori were inseparable for the rest of the conference, and before the weekend was over, Chad was telling Lori that his spiritual gifts had revealed that they had been married seven times before in previous lives.

Speaker 1 Lori, Chad said, was one of the chosen ones, and together they would change the world. Chad also told Lori that she had spiritual powers that only Chad could unleash in full.

Speaker 1 So they exchanged numbers at the end of the conference and continued communicating after they parted ways. That's just how you flirt at an end times conference.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you got, you know, we've been married seven times. Also, if like anyone's gonna commit adultery at a conference, it's the end times conference.
Yeah, they're not expecting to live much longer.

Speaker 1 Well, that's the whole thing, right? Is that they all they all now believe every single thing is the end justifies the means, is that it's all careening towards everybody's gonna be dead anyway.

Speaker 1 And it does, it adds a sense of urgency to everything you do, absolutely everything.

Speaker 1 Uh, so it does tend to make you make um bad decisions decisions like hey why don't we kill our spouses or hey why don't we kill my children you know because you just think not a lot of time left we got to get this shit kick started and it's not really going to matter anyway and they also believe that there is no

Speaker 1 pause between this life and the next life. Yeah.
They believe the next life is as real and is as concurrent as this life. So you won't miss anything.
Death is not anything. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Now, as we said, Chad was was a bit of a dud in both personality and looks. Or at least that's the case by non-Mormon standards.
Me? I'm the human version of Park Cheesy.

Speaker 1 Everybody's favorite sit-down game. Good, quiet, long game.

Speaker 1 Lori, however, couldn't stop talking about Chad on the way back from the conference, saying that she was attracted to him, quote, on a spiritual level.

Speaker 1 Now, as far as what attracted her, Lori was obviously a very black and white person.

Speaker 1 And in addition to pumping her up, Chad had also given Lori a very simple way of slotting black and white thinking into her belief system.

Speaker 1 Chad claimed that he'd come up with a system to tell if people were dark spirits or light spirits, which was yet another concept he'd stolen from the controversial NDE book Visions of Glory.

Speaker 1 In Visions of Glory, Tom Harrison had said that during one of his NDEs, he was shown people whose only purpose on earth was to commit evil deeds, people he unimaginatively called evils.

Speaker 1 Everyone, Harrison claimed, has levels of light and dark within them. And we all have to ascend above the dark in order to gain light levels.

Speaker 1 What I don't understand is, and I know I'm trying to make sense of something very, very stupid. Yes.

Speaker 1 So if you are light and you die, does that mean that the number's down to 143,999 people that are saved? See, the 144,000 only happen after the rest of us are dead.

Speaker 1 And that's even still debated as to whether or not what that number means. So if I'm light and you're dark and I die, does that mean that you have a chance to take my light?

Speaker 1 It makes no sense. No, it may

Speaker 1 be. You're killing me, sir.

Speaker 1 Well, the big lesson with this, honestly, the visions of glory, like the real hidden thing is the idea that when you do bad things, you allow these evil spirits to gain agency over you.

Speaker 1 So it is your fault.

Speaker 1 That's the key here is that no dark see light is like in his world if you're a Mormon already in a capital Mormon Mormon you are a light, but a dark person has allowed dark energies to enter them through the top of their head.

Speaker 1 Yeah, if you like that's the thing if you if you watch pornography and you masturbate at the moment of ejaculation the top of your head opens up and a dark spirit comes in because people weren't all edging.

Speaker 1 Yes, well they demons want experience coming because they're disembodied. They never had bodies.
They're disembodied spirits.

Speaker 1 And so they have to jump into you the moment you come and then this is all real according to them then when you come the devil gets to be like come and go we

Speaker 1 out of your dick and it gets to experience the whole thing because devils love coming out from the inside of balls

Speaker 1 cool so does that answer your question no

Speaker 1 come here i want to i want to shake your head

Speaker 1 so i assume that after reading about the light dark system and visions of glory chad developed his own system to classify people into light or dark dark categories.

Speaker 1 The more light you were, the more aligned with God. And the more dark, the more you were aligned with Satan.
But as we said in the first episode, Chad really did turn Mormonism into a tabletop RPG.

Speaker 1 And he quantified how light or dark someone was by giving them a number between 4.3 and negative 4.3, or 4.3 light and 4.3 dark. Now, Chad had chose the number 4.3 because it added up to 7.

Speaker 1 And 7 is extremely important in both Christianity and Mormonism. 7 Days of creation, seven tribes of Israel, so on and so forth.
Also, him and Lori have been married seven times.

Speaker 1 4.3, though, does not add up to 7. No, it's a number in and of itself.
4.3. A four and a three add up to seven.
If you add them, if it's just four point three, that's his number. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 But if you take the four and you take the three, then you add that together, then that makes you

Speaker 1 think.

Speaker 1 And Chad's

Speaker 1 fuck me.

Speaker 1 In Chad's world of like fucking new new age numerology and making shit up as you go along, like the four and the three represented heaven and earth.

Speaker 1 So if you are 4.3 light, that meant that you're spiritually perfect. You have an equal amount of heaven and earth in you.

Speaker 1 But if you're 4.3 dark, then you're perfectly, spiritually imperfect, I suppose. Although it would have been a fuck of a lot cooler if like the most like dark you could be was 6.66 dark.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's called branding. Yes, it is.

Speaker 1 If he was actually making this into a tabletop RPG, which I actually think you should do at home, I think the Lori Vallo Chad Daybell at home game would be really fun.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 that's how you do it. You'd probably roll for it.
Yeah. But I think 6.66 has to be the end of dark.
Yeah, it has to be. But then that's the thing is that you can't.

Speaker 1 It's Grayskull. What's his name? Yeah, but you can't.
But if you were 6.66 dark, that makes you a bigger number than 4.3 light. But that's because even

Speaker 1 was more powerful than good in the beginning, but in the end, they always lose. It's easy.
You could just make it 7 light and 6.66 dark. So that way there's no equality there.
Let me call Chad.

Speaker 1 I actually have some numbers through my bosses.

Speaker 1 Now, all of this, again, sounds very stupid. Yes.
And it only gets dumber from here.

Speaker 1 To tell who was a light or dark spirit, Chad used a magical artifact, a golden owl necklace that he believed was a gift from God.

Speaker 1 Chad would ask the necklace questions, and it would swing one way or another to suss out the light or dark tone of a spirit. Sussing out tones, however, was only part of the owl necklace's power.

Speaker 1 Chad would also bring it out during those gatherings he'd host at his home, and he would use it to tell people things about themselves and their past lives, things that made Chad appear to be very spiritually connected in the Mormon world.

Speaker 1 The owl would swing back and forth for a yes or swing in a circle for a no.

Speaker 1 But according to one of Chad's former friends, Chad would find out who was coming to his gatherings beforehand and Google everything that he could find out about him.

Speaker 1 Then he would pretend that that information that he gathered on Google came from the necklace.

Speaker 1 The worst part about asking the owl is that all the hours of like, now tell me, magical owl, is tiley dark?

Speaker 1 Who?

Speaker 1 Tylie.

Speaker 1 Who?

Speaker 1 Tylie, magical owl.

Speaker 1 Hours of this. It's very cute.
Yes, thank you. If it only did it involve the deaths of all these children,

Speaker 1 It would be entirely cute.

Speaker 1 I wonder what he did when he went to Hooters. Oh, yeah, he was like, owls everywhere.

Speaker 1 But I do think that Chad did actually believe in his own bullshit.

Speaker 1 Because after Chad got back to Rexburg after meeting Lori, he immediately took his owl necklace and began a detailed light and dark spirit analysis of Lori's whole family, including her ex-husbands and her dead relatives.

Speaker 1 Not surprisingly, Lori Valley herself was 4.3 light, spiritually perfect. Whoa.
Guess what, Chad Daybell? 4.3 light. Whoa.
Spiritually perfect.

Speaker 1 Yes. They're so blessed.
They really are. Both of Lori's parents and her dead sister, Stacey, three light on earth.
But Stacey, since she'd gone to heaven, she was now 4.1 light.

Speaker 1 That's like your survival rating in Naked and Afraid. Yeah.
It doesn't really make sense either, that one either. No.
Please make up those numbers. Very arbitrary.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Also not surprising was Chad's appraisal of Lori's ex-husbands. Her second husband was too dark, while Joe Ryan was on the totally opposite side of Lori's spectrum at 4.3 dark.
He's dead.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's still 4.3 dark. He was 4.3 dark when he was on Earth.
Wow. Wow.
Chad's awesome.

Speaker 1 He was so smart. You're cool.
Also, guess what that is? Folk magic. Yeah.
It's fucking the same thing that Joseph Smith did. Yes.
It's another fake bullshit, like,

Speaker 1 it's literal old-timey

Speaker 1 town man shit. Magical objects play a massive role in Mormonism.
And they continue to this day. Like you can just say like, oh yeah, I have a magical object because Joseph Smith had magical objects.

Speaker 1 And you can just say whatever the fuck you want. And

Speaker 1 as long as you kind of talk a good game and stay within the bounds that everybody is expecting you to stay within, then you can get a long fucking way in Mormonism with a magical owl necklace.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow. God, we got to do it.
Sure. We can get one.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Interestingly, though, Chad was all over the place in the beginning when it came to quantifying the people who would end up dead as a result of his and lori's beliefs charles vallow lori's then current husband started at three light and their adopted son jj was even better he was a four point two damn near perfect tylee however lori's daughter she was four point one dark

Speaker 1 and i believe that this negative rating may have been where the first seed of getting rid of everyone keeping chad and lori apart was planted see almost immediately Chad began blowing copious amounts of spiritual New Age Mormon smoke up Lori's ass, and Lori's ass was just about as wide open as it could possibly be to welcome it in.

Speaker 1 As wide as a Swiss sailor.

Speaker 1 Lori's brother Alex soon joined his sister as a follower of Chad Daybell, and within nine months of Chad and Lori's first meeting, Lori's fourth husband, Charles, would be dead by Alex Cox's hand.

Speaker 1 Charles would be just the first of four people to die as a result of the fantasy world Lori and Chad would soon create together.

Speaker 1 And it's with the creation of that world that we'll pick back up next week for Chad Daybell and Lori Vallo, part three. Wow.
Man. Man, I just fucking love this whole goddamn story so fucking much.

Speaker 1 Incredible. It's a crazy story, but the four-point thing, it just makes me so insane with anger.
Yeah, you don't like DD. You don't like it when it results in a child's death.

Speaker 1 But it's just, it's just, it's as judgy as you can possibly get. And it's stupid.
It's really stupid. It doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 1 It's just like it pulls it out of his ass, and everyone's like, yeah, that sounds great. And whoever said before was completely incorrect.
Andy Gibb died of a drug addiction.

Speaker 1 And Barry Gibbs's still alive.

Speaker 1 And there's also

Speaker 1 whoever said all this before. Whoever said that.
And Maurice died of twisted intestines. Yeah.
I don't even know how that happens. I guess this comes from fucking Saturday night fever.

Speaker 1 Go to patreon.com slash last podcast on the left to watch video episodes of every single episode we do. And don't forget to go watch side stories for free over on YouTube.

Speaker 1 And once you got those apps open, go on over to TikTok and Instagram and follow us at LP on the left.

Speaker 1 And if you still want more from the Last Podcast Network, go over to twitch.tv/slash LPNTV to see us perform bullshit live and go back to our YouTube page to check out everything after the fact vod.

Speaker 1 And don't forget to come out and see us on tour. That's right, man.
We're going to be in Nashville soon. That is March 14th.
We're doing the freaking rhyming, dude. Can't wait.

Speaker 1 I am so excited for this. The rhyme is the most beautiful venue in the entire country.
It's incredible. I can't wait to be there in that weird Confederate church.

Speaker 1 And then we'll be in Huntsville. Right after that, on the 16th, that's Sunday.
We're going to be in Huntsville. And Henry and I,

Speaker 1 we're coming for you, NASA. We're coming for you, NASA.

Speaker 1 I also told there are several competing German restaurants, and there's an entire German town that we can go to that is just outside of Huntsville as well.

Speaker 1 And if they are competing, they need to hit us up and compete for our business because we're big. We buy lots of sausage.
I can't wait. So this NASA headquarters, not headquarters, but...

Speaker 1 They had a sudden influx of German population around 1945 or 1990. 1945 or so.
For some some reason, yeah.

Speaker 1 And they just had to find a bunch of different, it seemed to be they were a very demanding clientele.

Speaker 1 In particular. Oh, yes.
And they just seemed to create a lot of, they found a way for them to be really comfortable in Alabama. You know, now that I think about it, the Nazis were quite fussy.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. You know, they really, really were.
Yeah. Really? I call them pains in the asses.
Maybe they were just upset because they're all the cuckoo clocks driving them crazy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I can never sleep. I cannot sleep.

Speaker 1 All right. Well, hail Satan, everyone, because Satan actually won't kill your kids.
He has nothing to do with your fucking kids. Yeah, Hail Gein.
He never killed a single child.

Speaker 1 Yes, and Hail Gein Hackman.

Speaker 1 Well, we don't know yet. What do you mean? We don't know whether

Speaker 1 it was carbon monoxide poisoning. No, it's all that completely got debunked.
No, carbon monoxide poisoning is actually highly suspicious. They have no idea what happened inside the house.

Speaker 1 Well, I'm still hailing a blind cat. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well, you can.

Speaker 1 But please, let's not get into a Chris Benoit situation here. Would you broaden with a kid? With a crazy

Speaker 1 95, the wife was found mummified. She'd been dead for days, and they found him.
They might have followed.

Speaker 1 It looks like either she died suddenly and then he fell and then he had pills, and then the dog ate the pills, is why the dog died.

Speaker 1 That is like one thing that they're saying, but otherwise, they don't know because the doors were the front door was open. That was what's also weird.
So, somebody could have gone in there for days.

Speaker 1 The door was open. Apparently, they were in the open.
Stay tuned for science.

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