Creator Chats w/ Joe & Eleanor - Midnight Burger X World Gone Wrong

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So

I got asked by a little college in Florida

to be a guest lecturer for their audio drama class.

Ooh, fun.

Okay.

Yeah.

To which I responded, there are audio drama classes?

And as it turns out, there were, which I was not aware of,

which had me thinking, should I maybe enroll in this class after I am the guest lecturer

for it?

And then I had this amazing vision of all of us taking the class, you, me, like all of Fable and Folly taking the class, all of us failing.

You know what I mean?

Like all of us just like, you know, the class, the teacher basically saying, you know,

this is not how you make audio dramas, sir.

You're out of your mind.

And we'd all be like, too bad I did it anyway.

Psych.

But we are here now,

us two.

Not too proud to say aloud.

I want just this and nothing more to do.

I'll make a bed with you and I'll rest my head on you.

We'll go sleep in a better way.

Pretend that nothing matters but today.

Joe, I don't know if you want to do any kind of like introduction of like who we both are.

No, that's fantastic.

So what happened?

What happened was, is that we were talking about doing a feed swap for our shows.

Yes, that is what happened.

And then we said, what if we like chatted before the feed drop so that our feed drops are not this like alien object that suddenly lands in the middle of the feed.

Maybe there's like some explanation and some introduction and things like that.

That is as far as the planning went.

Yeah.

And now here we are.

And here we are.

So since I think we're going to cross-post this on both of our feeds,

that's the plan.

Do you want to go first or should I go first on a little like, this is who I am?

Okay, I'll go.

My name's Joe Fisher and I created Midnight Burger.

Midnight Burger is the adventures, is an audio drama, first of all, and it's the adventures of a time-traveling dimension spanning diner.

Amazing.

Right?

And now you go.

Okay, great.

My name is Eleanor Hyde.

And

I am

the producer and showrunner on the show World Gone Wrong,

which is a fictional chat show about two best friends living through the apocalypse, which is not at all based on my real life.

I don't know why you would ask that.

But Jamie and Malik, the apocalypse that they are living through and talking about, is one that involves aliens and werewolves and like weird time distortions and pretty much everything out of an episode of Supernatural or X-Files that you can think of all in one show.

Right.

So that's, that's where I've gone wrong.

I'm also one of the producers behind the show Unwell, a Midwestern Gothic Mystery, which I'll probably mention at some point in the rest of this conversation.

But that's a that's a show that ran for five years.

It's all out now.

You can listen to the whole thing.

And it's about a small town in Ohio with a ghost problem.

A ghost problem is one way of putting it.

Yes.

To put it lightly.

Yes.

It's a head got a ghost problem.

Yeah.

Fantastic show.

If you're on the Midnight Burger side and you have not listened to Unwell, please do that as well.

We're giving you a long list of things to do in this recording, which is how it should be.

So yeah, so that's who we are.

And we're also like friends in the podcasting space, which is part of why this felt like a fun thing to do.

Right.

It is not show business.

It is show friends in the podcast.

Very much.

Very much so.

And we are.

So, okay, so

the question I have about World Gone Wrong.

Yes.

Was that, so World Gone Wrong in

many, many ways just resembles a podcast that is very standard, like two friends talking about things.

Right.

And it has the vibe of like one of those pop culture shows about these two best friends who want to talk about, you know, some sort of show about housewives.

Yeah, totally.

Right.

But instead, what they're talking about is, you know,

zombie horses.

Excuse me, Welsh zombie horses.

Yes, that is an episode we've done.

That is an episode that you have done.

And it is kind of like the show is kind of like, if Pandora's box opened,

this is what your daily life would be.

Everything came out.

And then you have to do it.

Everything came out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You got a kaiju in one of the Great Lakes.

You've got all of these things.

And it's, and, and through it all are these two friends who who are kind of doing this chat show talking about the various things that are happening in the world.

Right.

And I guess my question is like, looking back, because like if you look at Unwell, Unwell, huge cast,

complicated story,

ghosts, massive sound design, huge sound design complexity.

Yeah.

And, you know, original music.

Yep.

All this stuff.

And then you go to this show, which is pretending to be a podcast.

Yeah.

These things from a production production standpoint could not be more different.

Right, right, could not be more different.

And I guess my question is: like,

what was easier in that you were in the pretending to be a podcast, what was easier?

You know, because like in those moments when you need to

make an announcement about please go here for the show, yeah, like the characters just do it.

Yeah, exactly.

The characters just do it in world, yeah, which is amazing because

and it's so

simple and amazing because you are just doing a podcast.

Yeah,

we sometimes talk about it as like

they're like Kfab moments inside of it where it's like wink, wink, we all, even though the show pretends that Jamie and Malik are making this podcast by themselves, like wink, wink, we know there's a team behind this show making it.

And like,

you could go check out our merch on their website.

Yeah, yeah, it's, it's great.

It is interesting because it does feel like the bridge to the, it is like a, it's, it's like you're breaking the fourth wall, but also

you're not exactly, you're not breaking it, you're just like making it transparent for a second.

Yeah.

You know, it's like you're sort of the two worlds kind of joined together.

It's like, you know, Halloween night when the spirit, when the spirit world joins the other world together.

Totally.

And I was kind of envious, but also like

I was wondering like if it ever got confusing

in the telling of the story.

So like for you guys, did you ever get turned around?

Oh, yeah.

So, you know, it's funny.

I,

it doesn't so much become confusing,

but like there are a couple of rules that we've set for ourselves that I think help a little bit.

Like,

I think the place where I sometimes get the most nervous about it is when we do

like behind the scenes content, right?

Where I invite, so Michael and Hillary, who play the characters of Malik and Jamie,

bring a lot of themselves to those characters

so there's a way in which like they are playing heightened fictionalized versions of themselves like they Michael and Hillary are best friends in real life you know like like there's all of this sort of truth under the fiction and so I do sometimes worry about it in the context of like we're doing um

behind the scenes stuff and I invite Hillary to have a conversation with me, which is different than inviting Jamie to have a conversation with me

and

trying to make sure that that is very clear.

Right.

So, like, I don't know, there's some sort of rules that we've set that I hope make that easier and clearer.

Like,

I, Eleanor the producer, will never be on the pot on the fiction, the fiction side of this, of this line.

Right.

But I, Eleanor, the producer, will host like

backstage conversations with the actors.

Right.

And so, like, we have set up some kind of like, um,

I don't know, signals for your brain and your ear when you're listening to know, like, are we in world or out of world?

Um, okay, interesting.

Yeah, but like, I don't know, it is, it, it's interesting.

Um,

it's not so much that I worry about it being confusing and more that I feel like I get to revel in

I think there's a delightful safety net

in fictionalizing stuff that feels really personal and real.

Right.

So like coming up later this year, Michael Turrentine, who is one of our actors, is also writing

a bunch of episodes.

And so I've been having all these conversations with Michael about like, what do you want to put in your episodes and like what topics do you want to explore and what do you want to do?

And I'm like, you get to write this and perform it.

And so you get to make these decisions about like, how much of me goes in this?

How personal does this want to be?

And then can take these topics that are like, um,

really personal.

Like, like, we're having these conversations where I'm like, do you want to just do a thing that's about like loneliness in your, you know, early adulthood?

I feel like that's what you actually want to talk talk about.

And Michael's like, yeah, I do.

I want to get into that, but it doesn't have to be me.

It gets to be this character.

And you can kind of like,

I don't know, a lot of times on our show, we

do things that if this was an actual chat show and I was the producer, I would say, you should cut that.

You should not put something that vulnerable out in the world.

It's your real life.

But this isn't real.

It's fictional.

And so there gets to, there are these things that it's like, well, this is fake.

So you can put that out there there and be that vulnerable and that sort of like raw.

Right.

And I love that about it.

I love that

in a weird way, it feels safer to do hard stuff than I think I would be able to do if it was an actual chat podcast.

It's really great that fiction works that way.

You know, you can, you can engage with material in a better way because it's quote unquote fake.

What else should we talk about here in this?

The thing I wanted to ask you was I was thinking about the way in which I feel like

both you and I were making

shows

during the pandemic, like during 2020 and 2021.

Right.

And the sort of like

most brutal parts of lockdown.

And

like we were, we were writing the third season of Unwell when the whole world shut down.

And

very much World Gone Wrong is a response to the pandemic and like a response to what the world did to our brains over the last five years.

But I was so curious, I wanted to ask you kind of how you feel like that shows up in your work, because I know that you also were building Midnight Burger and your storytelling in that context.

And like, I don't know, how, do you think about the show as being a piece of like pandemic art or in some way engaging with that?

Yeah, I do.

I mean, I think that,

so, you know, it was like our first episode was October of 2020, right?

I had this experience where,

you know, in March when it all started coming down,

you know, I had the same experience everybody else did where, you know, you had that, you go into the grocery store and you realize that everybody's freaking out at the same level you are.

Totally.

Right.

Yeah.

And like all of the stuff is gone.

You're getting, you grab like the last peanut butter right off of the shelf and uh get all the stuff that you can and you head back to the apartment and i i walked into my apartment and i closed the door and i turned to my apartment and i thought oh boy yeah it's just gonna be you and me for a really long time yeah and the thing about it for me was that there was this part of me

that was excited

right because the pandemic was kind of springtime for misanthropes yeah Because you didn't, you didn't really have to talk to anyone if you didn't want to.

You could hide forever, it felt like, right.

Now, I am not a misanthrope, but I do remember that there was

a surprising kind of optimism right at the beginning of like, this is a thing that will only happen once in my life, and I am going to make the most of it.

Right.

Well, see, that's what, that's the thing is that I wasn't at the make the most of it.

Like where I was, where I was was like,

this is bad.

Not bad in terms of, you know, globally, but I mean, for me personally,

it was playing to the wrong parts of my personality.

Right.

And so

I did something that I never do, which is I reached out to other people

and I got in contact with like old friends who were actors and I knew they were at home.

And so we started doing

Midnight Burger.

And Midnight Burger, you know,

because that particular period of time, the pandemic, was,

you know, we didn't know if there was going to be a vaccine.

Totally.

We didn't know what the world was going to look like for the next several years.

And so, everything seemed very out of control,

but also very quiet.

And so, I started to

imagine a safe place with friends

and

a place that was unassailable,

a place where they couldn't catch you, right?

Unfortunately, even when the pandemic sort of quote-unquote ended,

the world decided to continue to be a really hot mess.

Yeah,

it feels like thematically that continues to be really relevant.

Yeah, it continues to be really, really relevant.

And so, you know, that it so it can, even though it sort of began in that sort of

quiet anxiety of the pandemic, it,

you know, it picked up everything else that started happening as well, you know.

That is

also

so present in the, in our World Gone Wrong story, where I was like, this is great.

We're going to do this thing that's going to process my feelings about the pandemic and like kind of metabolize all this stuff that is emotionally still living in me and like, whatever, it's going to be great.

And then

almost immediately, I mean, so we launched the show about a year ago in March 2024.

Right.

And almost immediately, all of the feedback we were getting was not looking backwards.

It was all looking forwards towards like, oh my gosh, this show is helping me think about what's happening today or tomorrow or next week or my uncertainty about the election or what have you.

And I was like, oh,

didn't predict that, but that works anyway.

Sure, great.

Let's go.

Yeah.

For sure.

It turns out the inbox was continuing, you know, to fill up as you were making it.

You know what I mean?

With more stuff to freak out about, yeah.

Yeah, more stuff.

So, yeah, I mean,

I think it started as a reaction to the pandemic, but

that anxiety has not gone away really about anything.

So I guess it just kind of turned from one thing to the next, I guess.

Well, and I appreciate, I feel like you and I both have this sort of experience as creatives of being like,

I don't know if you feel this way, but I really feel like part of my job as a creative and a storyteller is supposed to be about like looking at the world and digesting it and then telling stories that help people understand their own lives better.

Yeah.

And this past five years has been a lot of being like, look, I don't have time to digest it.

I just have to run through it.

Right.

Like we're all, we all just have to keep showing up every day.

So I'm doing my best and I hope, I hope it's working.

Yeah.

And I don't know.

I, I, it's been,

it's been, it's been sort of joyful, I feel like, to have a place to put all that.

And yeah.

And you know what else is

interesting about it is that, you know, as when you're doing audio drama, it's not, you know, you wouldn't consider yourself part of the mainstream, you know?

And so

you're in that sort of,

you're in that sort of weird outside space looking in.

And so, you know, these sort of huge, like the,

you know, huge upsets in some sort of marketplace doesn't really affect what you're doing.

So you're kind of just sitting there watching a huge train wreck.

And it's like continuing to do your thing and continuing to tell the story

while things are just crashing around you, you know?

So it gives you this,

it's a really interesting perspective to have on events because you do kind of feel like I, anyway, felt like I was just kind of watching it from afar, not really able to do anything about it, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So yeah, it's been, it's been a, it's been a wild experience for sure.

Yeah.

Though I also feel like very,

I don't know, there's something really wonderful about being just outside and going like, like, I'm still going to be here making my thing and the people who are excited about it are going to come hang out with me and it's going to be great.

And like, I don't, I don't need, I don't know that I would have gained a lot by being all wrapped up in like the, you know, the big industry blowouts of the last five years.

It sounds very stressful.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, it sounds very stressful.

It sounds very stressful to like worry about what an entertainment company does on the stock market.

You know what I mean?

Totally.

Yeah.

Which is so disconnected from, am I telling a good story

to these people?

You know?

Yeah.

For sure.

Am I going to be able to tell the story even when the stock market is going up and down?

You know, I don't know.

Right.

It's, it's, you know, being disconnected from that.

I mean, and coming as someone who like did a lot of sort of, you know, corporate writing in my life to like be completely disconnected from that.

Fantastic place to be.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, yeah, I feel really lucky to get to do it, frankly.

Okay.

So what, what are you going to be putting on our feed?

Oh, yeah.

So, I think the plan is to share with you the very first episode of World Gone Wrong,

which is

Jamie and Malik starting their podcast and

taking trying to answer a letter that one of them found on Reddit, like a question somebody found on Reddit, one of them found on Reddit about

my pecanese got bit by a werewolf.

What should I do about it?

That's great.

I mean, this is information everyone needs.

I think so.

Jeffrey, who's my co-producer on the show,

has a Pekinese in their life.

And

so

in part, this was of great amusement of all of us, the idea of trying to put a muzzle on a Pekinese who has the flattest face

in all the land.

So much room in that muzzle.

Yeah, exactly.

So that's our very first episode, followed by, I think the second one's an episode about alien body snatchers, and the third one about a new hour of the day appearing between noon and one o'clock and what

does that do to your life and your job when you are paid hourly.

There's a new hour in the day.

Yeah.

And a lot lot of people.

Sometimes that would be like so great, and sometimes that would be the worst thing in the world.

Yes, exactly.

And there's a lot of discussion about what they're going to call it.

So yeah, so we're going to share with you our very first episode.

And then if you're excited about that, you can go on to the body snatching aliens and the episode about thrune, the new hour in the day.

Right.

Thrune.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's thrune.

Yeah.

See you there.

Yep.

So yes, that's what we were going to share.

That's amazing.

And what about you, Joe?

What are you planning on sharing with our listeners?

Here's what I'm worried about.

I'm worried that we've done so many feed swaps with people that I think I'm worried that people are so sick of seeing our first episode show up on the feed of the other show that they listen to.

You know what I mean?

So I think what I'm going to do is

put up an episode of

Okay, so we have Midnight Burger, which is the main show, right?

And then a while back, we started simultaneously also producing a mini-series alongside the main show.

Oh, yeah.

That's a mini-series that takes place in the world of the show.

Great.

I love that.

So I think what I'm going to do is send you the first episode of the mini-series we just did called Welcome to the Horizon.

Great.

Which is basically about a small ski town on the side of Mount Hood in Oregon, where

because of something that has happened, very strange things just start happening.

And so I think that I'll do that just to kind of see what happens.

Great.

If someone is brand new and hasn't listened to other parts of Midnight Burger, is there anything you feel like we should know

headed in that will help us enjoy this?

I don't think so.

I think you're going to be fine.

Great.

I think you'll be fine.

And there will be questions that you would have about the rest of the show.

But when you have those questions, you know, you know what to do.

It's time to go back back to the beginning yeah you can go listen to the rest of it i mean i feel like that's sort of like coming at something from uh from the spin-off and like knowing that you won't have all the inside back you know background jokes but like sure the the story is still stands alone i'm sure there are people who started with better call saw totally exactly and then then went to breaking bad yeah you know what i mean i mean i was gonna i was gonna say frasier to cheers but you know yeah same idea

that's true that's probably a better example You're right.

So, yeah, that's what I'm going to do.

Great.

I love that.

And just as a fun experiment to see what happens.

Awesome.

Joe, this has been so fun.

And I'm so excited to

swap our stuff and share what you're up to with our people.

I'm excited as well.

I think it's going to be,

again, this will be a fun experiment to see, you know, if people like it, if we talk a little bit before the feed swap.

Yeah, I love that.

So you, okay, so you just started your new season, right?

Yes, though, I think it's worth saying that Rug on Wrong runs what I think of as mini seasons.

They're each six episodes long.

Right.

So yes, we just started our new season, but also we're starting a new season about once every three months.

So that I've often just started a new season.

Okay, great.

So

people should, you know, do some catching up then.

Yes.

And I will, and I, and I do think that ours is a show that if you just want to dip your toe in and see if you like it, you can start at the beginning of any of those seasons.

And

yeah, and you won't have missed anything so major that you can't jump in and have a good time.

Okay, cool.

Yeah.

I would say that we are the opposite of that.

Yeah, I mean,

working on Unwell for so many years, that show you really have to listen from the very beginning.

So

I relate.

Can't even imagine.

Yeah.

So, yes, but we just finished our fourth season, and we will be coming back in the fall.

So, you've got plenty of time.

If you're new to the show, plenty of time to catch up if you would like to.

Fantastic.

So, hello to anyone who hasn't

heard of us.

And

Eleanor, I'm so glad that I got to introduce you to anyone who hasn't heard you guys yet.

I know.

It's going to be great.

It's going to be great.

Trees are shaking, windows breaking.

You and I to tell them no.

But I wish that we had longer.

I wish that I was stronger.

I wish a million things before we have to go.

Thing is, it's not that hard.

Okay, but it's not straightforward either.

The calendar isn't really all.

You have to do is lie to a period track app one time and bam, there it is.

Never caught by surprise again.

Oh, hey.

Right.

It's called a cycle for a reason.

Not like it stops.

Yet.

Oh, no.

Yep.

Although, scientifically, how would that even happen?

How does anything happen these days?

Who are you recording?

I am.

Are you?

Hello, and welcome to episode one of World Gone Wrong with Malik and Jamie.

I'm Malik.

And this.

Jamie, I'm Jamie.

Someone on the radio said something about the sun going out forever in a month or so.

But we all knew the end was near.

Nothing to be done from here.

So I shook my head and off to bed I go.

So, like we said, this is World Gone Wrong.

And we are here to discuss and explain our ever-changing reality in ways that inform and entertain you, you know, the listener, who will hopefully exist at some point.

Fingers crossed.

My dad said he'd listen.

Ooh, then hello and welcome to Jamie's dad.

Hi, Dad.

Ooh, what if we narrow cast this?

Did a whole episode just for your dad?

Like, yeah, it'd be like IT jokes, gardening tips, recipes for squash, um, I don't know, how to hand-mend something.

I need to know that.

You know, listen, he's getting into it.

Maybe next episode.

Um, so we are here.

Yes, I am your dashing Chicago correspondent, and Jamie is your equally dashing co-host, broadcasting all the way from scenic small town, Colorado.

How is it out there, Jamie?

It's

have you seen the news about?

Yeah, are you guys okay?

I mean, I assumed when you didn't answer the call, like screaming, but we are.

And okay, answering your first question, it's weird.

Are you okay?

How's Chicago?

Fine.

And weird.

Yeah.

So the show.

I think we said we would look at the current moment, everything that's happening, and take it one catastrophe at a time.

And today's episode, we were starting simple with werewolves.

Werewolves.

But before we get into that, some quick background.

Like, who are these people in your ears right now?

Oh, that makes sense.

Yeah.

We are two younger millennials, which is to say, our world's been rushing down the drain basically since we've been aware of it.

When we first moved in together, we decided to throw a Halloween party.

While we were choosing the music, we realized each of us had a playlist of upbeat tunes about the end of the world.

And I think that outlook uniquely qualifies us to comment on everything happening now.

Okay, two things.

Never talk about that party again.

And second,

does that qualify us?

Have you heard the boomers try to make sense of this?

We are experts compared to them.

What else?

We met on Craigslist, which sounds like medium sketchy.

Only if you say it like that.

Yeah.

We're roommates.

Normally we're roommates.

Temporarily estranged roommates.

Once and future roommates.

Roommates, but right now the room in question is half the U.S.

Maybe a third.

There's a lot of West where I'm at.

Yeah.

Last month, Jamie decided to go stay with family for a while for, you know, the unpleasantness.

Now, that is a euphemism.

Okay, the great infucking, in which all was mercilessly infuckened.

Voice of a generation over here.

I'll take it.

And this show is our little project to keep from going stir crazy and also to stay in touch despite the many cruel miles of American geography that seeks to part us.

For the record, my idea was a group chat.

Yeah, but this way I get to hear your dulcet tones and we get to share our thoughts with the world, the world of your dad.

Plus, a group chat wouldn't be half as loud.

We have a whole, we have a range of decibels to explore.

We can whisper, we can shout, we can sing.

Ooh, that was good.

Thank you.

Yeah, was it A?

Sure.

So, what are we?

What's the

what do we want to talk about?

I actually have an advice question for us.

This is episode one.

How do you even,

where did you get a question from?

I may have scraped Reddit.

For future episodes, listeners, Jamie's dad, feel free to write in.

We can anonymize you if something's embarrassing.

We're here to help.

Is that the name of the segment?

Ooh, yeah.

Okay.

Welcome to We're Here to Help, our first ever segment.

It's not hard to tell the world is unwell, but we are here to help.

Ding.

That was incredible.

Did you write that ahead of time?

Oh, gosh, not at all.

That was me living in the moment.

So this is from R slash Dogs, which you'd think would be getting a lot more traffic since then.

I think most of that is in new subreddits.

R Diagnose Me.

That's a big one.

R near misses.

R, oh God, oh God, oh God, help.

Do we think these people are opening Reddit mid-wolf attack?

They really could be in shock.

Who wouldn't be?

Jamie, if you'd like to do the honors.

Cool.

So, my five-year-old dog, Pepper, got bitten last week.

We took him to the vet, and he's all patched up with minimal blood loss.

A real roller coaster of an opening there.

I told the vet it was a coyote just to be safe, and I think she believed me, but he's a Pekinese, so my main worry is that when he changes, he'll try getting into fights with much bigger animals.

He could really hurt himself.

Any suggestions?

Wow.

Okay.

It's a tough one, right?

I think we've all had to brush up on how to evade werewolves in the past couple of weeks, but I haven't heard anything on how to protect a werewolf or dog wolf in this case.

Last week, I would have said, hey, are we sure that a non-human animal can even catch lycanthropy?

Oh, he was so young.

So innocent.

But then Bloomfield Hills happened.

Bloomfield, which one was that?

You didn't hear about this?

It's all over the local news.

Oh, so Bloomfield Hills, very rich suburb of Detroit.

Some people out there have horses, not like cowboys, obviously.

Equestrians.

A horse got bitten?

Yeah, it was bad.

You don't always think about how big a horse is, how fast it can go.

Then you're staring down a supercharged horse wolf hybrid that wants your blood.

At first, the people there thought they were safe because it was like in a paddock.

Oh, but obviously the horse wolf knocked it down.

Like so much wet cardboard.

Even without the otherworldly strength, I think, oh, like a normal wolf wolf could have gotten out.

People just aren't prepared for that in the suburbs.

What's been bitten in your side of the woods?

We had a few bighorn sheep go wolf.

They injured some hunters.

Someone came back the next day and got them.

Also,

there was this raccoon in our yard last week, last full moon.

Uh-huh.

At first, my dad thought the raccoon had rabies.

It was so aggressive.

I mean, it could have still been rabies.

Are you going to tell me what this raccoon was doing, or do I have to rely on my finely honed imagination?

Dad said he saw it was definitely a raccoon.

It had the tail, but he saw it take down a wounded bat,

take down, and then eat.

So the upside is: no matter what, we don't have to contend with were bats.

Again, yet.

Yet.

It was moving faster than an animal should be able to move, so he didn't get a great line of sight, but he thought it had more of a snout than usual and longer legs, bigger teeth.

Ooh, your dad didn't get bit, did he?

Oh, he stayed in the house.

We both did.

Even if it was just rabies, there's no way we're tangling with that.

You know, I would have led with that if my dad had mysterious bite marks right now.

Yeah.

When I say fine, I mean fine.

Okay, nobody on the planet is actually doing fine.

You know what I mean.

We grade on a curve.

I know.

You have to trust me that things are, I don't know, adequate.

In that case, if nobody but the bat was hurt, not to get pedantic.

Yeah.

Uh, where bat, the thought is that where actually means man, a batman?

Oh wait, a batman would actually be a big help right now.

That depends on which run you're, you know what?

Okay, we're not going to get into that now.

Yeah, stakes are high.

Oops, stakes.

Wait, stakes are vampires.

That's not a pun.

Big relief.

Okay, so saving the life of Pepper the Pikinese.

Well, the good thing is they've got time.

They've got...

At the time of recording, we had a full moon a week ago.

Assuming this was posted today, they've got about three weeks.

Like I said, unlike werewolves themselves or pod people or...

anything else in that vein, the moon cycle doesn't sneak up on you.

Three weeks to do what?

Get your dog fitted for an extra strength muzzle.

Maybe that sounds harsh, but it beats the alternatives.

So I have a creeping suspicion you don't know what a Pekinese is.

Well, they're small, right?

I'm not saying it'd be easy to find one that fits.

It's just, you know.

Jamie, my sweet Jamie, what I need you to do right now is pause the show and Google image search one of these suckers.

Okay, hang on.

I.

Oh,

oh.

Yep.

That is one flat.

tiny little baby face.

And yeah, he'll have a snout once he changes, but I don't know how you'd find anything that would stay comfortable before and after.

Plus, do we even know if, okay, so a dog can get the bite and transform, but does that bite still, does that still spread it?

I don't know, but that is like, do not take that gamble.

Because like, I'm not saying I'm not worried about this Pekinese attempting to start something with a bigger werewolf.

Or even just an actual coyote.

Or like a large cat.

I mean, these guys really are the size of a lunchbox.

But my thing is, if a tiny dog wolf bites your ankle and that's enough to spread it, that feels maybe even more dangerous than a really big, even the horse wolf, like a fanged, muscled horse charging at you with murder in its eyes, you clear the area, but people don't see a Pekkanese and think, run.

It's like how more people die each year from falling flat screen TVs than shark attacks.

Really?

Yeah, I forget the actual number, but I think it's around twice as many.

We know to fear sharks.

We think about those pointy, toothy killing machines and we go, maybe a pool instead.

But there's no primal part of your brain whispering, hey, that TV is heavier than it looks.

Okay, in defensive TVs, sharks are also not that dangerous.

You know, in the time since you left, somehow I forgot you're a self-appointed shark lawyer.

I'm just saying.

Objection, Your Honor.

I'm just saying sharks have tiny prehistoric brains and they approach the world teeth first because that's how they are made.

Even if a shark tries to bite you, and it frankly is not a given that they will try to bite you, you can generally get out of it by swapping them on the nose.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.

You're telling me that if a wild shark sunk its many gigantic teeth into your one fragile human body, you, Jamie, would be be able to thwap?

You are so shark weak-pilled.

If I'm a shark lawyer, you're a shark prosecutor.

Oh, shark law, court of sharks.

I would watch that show.

Take a bite out of crime.

Wait, that's McGruff, the crime dog.

That's a separate issue.

Okay, wait, sorry.

Remember when we tried to explain about the whole cartoon trench coat snitch dog thing to Aditi?

So speaking of dogs, speaking of this poor, terrified pet owner, right, right.

There are two main problems.

A, pepper gets hurt.

B, pepper spreads lycanthropy either to other animals or to humans in his circle.

All of which is to say, I think step one is to just accept that once a month you have an indoor dog.

Wait, so to protect the neighborhood animals, we're locking the dog wolf in with a bunch of people.

I don't want to be chased by a squirrel wolf or a deer wolf any more than you do, but like people, Jamie?

First of all, if we want to minimize the spread, a bitten person knows how to take precautions and a bitten anything else does not.

So the dog owner surrenders to a lifetime of werewolfism?

There's a joke here about people looking like they're pets, but I won't go there.

Second of all, a pekinese looks like it's about as big as a very large loaf of bread.

All you have to do is lock it in whatever room you care about the least.

No amount of wolf is going to change the fact that it can't reach the doorknob.

What if the questioner lives in a studio?

Nobody with Pekinese money lacks multiple door money.

Doesn't mean they're spending it that way.

Also, the dog could be a gift or from when they had more money.

People come down in the world sometimes.

Touche.

And even if you have a two-bedroom, that's still basically destroying a huge chunk of your living space like 12 times a year.

Everything at Pekinese height only, and you take your valuables out before.

I hear you, but the floor.

Yeah.

You are never, ever getting your deposit back.

Do you usually get your deposit back?

Point.

Landlords, ugh, go figure, the one thing in the world that doesn't change.

You know what else though?

What?

We are assuming this little guy can't jump.

Probably not high with those tiny little lengths.

Every inch he can gain increases the zone of destruction.

There are drawbacks.

I think the solution is clear.

You do.

You drug the dog.

Okay.

You what?

I mean, according to what I've heard, that's already what the rich are doing when they get bitten.

Knock themselves out, wake up the next morning a little groggy.

So you go back to the vet, talk your way into some supplies, and then every four weeks you have a tiny, snoring little dog wolf by the side of your bed, safe and adorable talk your way

into the vet giving you animal tranquilizers yeah okay malik what does that sound like it sounds very charming because the safety of you and anyone you live with is on the line flirt with the veterinarian that's your plan do you also sweet talk them into describing the correct dosage for your dog maybe it's more of a bribe so we're relying on the vet being corrupt hey you've lived in Chicago for years.

You know how it is.

The fix is in.

And if you get the one honest vet in town, keep in mind, what it's actually going to sound like is not, oh, I'm protecting my living situation from the world's tiniest shapeshifter.

It's going to sound like you want to get high, high enough to knock out a pekinese, a small dog, height.

Okay, wait.

Compromise.

We marry your plan with my plan.

How?

I'm not saying it's a loving marriage.

It's more of a marriage of convenience.

Malik, what are the compromises?

I'll explain after this commercial break.

Wait, wait, we have commercials on okay, on episode one of this show.

How is this even possible?

Allow me to explain during our commercial break.

Ha ha!

Hello again, and we're back with my brilliant solution.

Jamie's plan merged with mine.

Okay, so you go to the vet, you don't try to seduce them, and you don't try to slip them a crisp 20.

You are only gonna bribe them with $20 for what?

A dog's lifetime worth of tranquilizer?

I would leave room to bargain.

If you start out high, they don't respect you.

And you crave the respect of a vet craven enough to sell.

No, I crave the savings.

Life is so expensive.

Okay, right.

Keep in mind, you've got to be able to afford to feed a pint-sized wolf once a month.

I really doubt he's going to settle for Kibble.

Also, the therapy bills for you and everyone you live with.

Also, that.

So, okay, the compromise.

You go back to the vet, who may be a wonderful person.

I don't know why we keep smearing this imaginary stranger's name.

You say, hey, I'm sorry, but my dog won't stop trying to bite at the spot you patched up.

Oh.

Yeah, you get a, you get a shame cone.

You, and this is very key, you put the cone on the dog before he transforms, and then you lock him in.

Oh, see, this part is, it's still a problem because not everyone has multiple rooms, but you get where I'm going.

You gain a layer of extra protection and your dog won't be able to chew through a door.

That would be a lot of chewing.

Hmm.

How much door could a wolf dog chaw if a wolf dog could chaw door?

I guess even if it can't get through, it could gradually weaken the door.

So not tonight, but six transformations from now.

That's right.

A wear dog is a pet for life.

Don't get one now because it's trendy, folks.

You're making a commitment to a whole lifestyle.

Until scientists figure out how to reverse lycanthropy.

You think there's going to be a cure?

You don't?

How could you undo changing into a different animal every month?

Just because I can't describe it doesn't mean it's impossible.

I haven't read enough about quantum physics to truly understand it, but we still have all these particles.

There's faith in science and then there's science zealotry.

Look, yeah, we don't really know.

We don't know if there's a way to undo this, but given that we don't know, let's say it's a coin flip on a coin we can't see.

An invisible coin.

All right, what do we gain by acting like we're all doomed forever?

Even if that's the answer, why live in that space right now when we don't have to?

It'll save you the disappointment later.

Is it worth living in fear?

Shit.

Yeah.

No, no, no, no.

I mean, I solved the door problem.

You have?

You put a cone on the dog and then lock him in the bathroom.

Even a studio generally has a bathroom door.

He's less likely to claw up a tile floor and what's he gonna do in there?

Bite your toilet?

Plus, when he feels the lupine need to mark the territory, that's a way easier mess to clean.

I swear, I am not trying to poke holes in this.

But?

Do your bathroom doors lock from the outside?

You barricade the door.

Barricade.

It worked in Le Miz.

It did not work in Le Miz.

That's like a huge part of Le Mez.

Wait, Jamie, remember the door doesn't need to lock.

Neither dogs nor wolves have hands.

Oh, we forgot about paws.

Okay, not our brightest memory.

In our defense, we're not working in our areas of expertise.

Next advice column, I'll find someone whose problem involves werewolves and cooking.

The Dewey Decimal System versus the Library of Congress.

Women's hockey and the drama surrounding women's hockey.

It's not my fault they keep marrying players from rival teams.

Or we can do one for me, like, help, I'm running from this wolf bear monster, and I also really need someone to analyze the themes in this stance up.

Okay, show off writing, teaching, studying, and performing your poetry Swiss Army knife.

A jack of several trades.

Okay, so back to it.

We shame cone Pepper, put him in the bathroom, and shut the door until it clicks.

Did we just solve it?

There's only one problem.

One?

Okay, good.

That's just one problem.

I think my sister said that dogs don't really like having those cones on.

You know, it doesn't get to be called of shame if the wearer actually has a good time.

The dog might not like it, but if that's do it, then it can't actually be harmful.

And I don't think any of us would like becoming a werewolf.

You're on Team Cone now?

Team Cone and Team Door.

You just, you post a sign over the knob so you don't forget.

Not Not to crack open the door behind which a furious loaf-sized wolf is going on a rampage.

You don't even need a sign.

But what?

What if you have to use the bathroom at you know any point during the night?

You visit the all-night diner across the street, buy a cup of coffee.

Do you know any 24-hour places that are still open every night of the moon cycle these days?

And what if they live in the suburbs or the middle of nowhere?

Yeah, right.

Or any other place where you don't want to be out at night.

Yeah, that's not ideal.

I guess you could have a designated bedpan.

Ugh, gross.

That's your line in the sand.

I think it is.

You know what else we're forgetting?

What?

A dog isn't a person.

You can kennel a dog.

Kennel!

Just put the dog in its cage for a night.

You don't even have to trank him or cone him.

Although.

What?

How strong is your average dog cage, and how strong is your average dog wolf?

Are we talking about a dog wolf or are we talking about a fuzzy basketball with legs?

I think we have to assume that even a normally defenseless animal can do a lot of damage if you give it preternatural strength and angry wolf thoughts.

That's why regular werewolves are dangerous in the first place, isn't it?

Did you see that video from Maine of that guy?

Of course.

I do think it was probably staged.

Based on what?

Oh, first of all, I don't like, I do not think of TikTok as the home of serious journalism.

It's the algorithm mathematically guessing what you're likely to stare at.

And second, real special effects people have put out videos explaining how you can fake those visuals.

I hope you're right because the way he rips it in too.

It could be a deep fake.

It could be a clip from some obscure movie.

I think we both would have said the same thing about werewolves a few months ago.

And look where we are now.

Look where we are.

Literally.

Look at the rest of it.

Like all the...

What did I say before?

The great buffucking.

These are exactly the scenarios where misinformation spreads the fastest.

Everyone's scared, and some people think they stand to gain from that.

It's part of the human condition, unfortunately.

The look on his face, though.

That's why I think it's a movie.

From what I read, the lighting makes no sense for the time of day.

Besides, who would film something like that and have the presence of mind to zoom in on his expression?

You'd think a bystander would be way more worried about the claws and the, I don't know, collateral damage.

You think?

Also, the sound quality is suspiciously good.

No wind?

No ambient noise?

Yeah.

It would be irresponsible of us to spread hysteria.

Plus, we still owe the questioner response.

They're just some Redditor.

They're not going to hear this.

They might.

I guess.

Then I guess we need an answer.

Thank you.

For what?

For providing this segue.

Okay, so you do everything.

First, and I cannot believe we didn't mention this yet.

You protect everyone else who lives there.

You invest in some steel-toed boots and leg armor.

Leg armor.

Jamie, if you think there isn't already, as we speak, a place on the internet where you can buy chainmail socks, then you and I are on very different internets.

Chainmail socks?

Chainmail pants?

Tell me you haven't seen some Renfair entrepreneur out there.

Okay, hold on.

The Renfair scene and the TTRPG scene are different.

Have you seriously never played DD?

I made a half a character sheet five years ago.

It was like doing taxes, but with elf magic, which somehow made it less fun.

There are all kinds of tools on the internet now.

That whole scene really feels like, to me, no offense, nerds out of college finding a way to keep getting homework.

Says the guy studying for a living.

Whoa, it is not for a living if you don't make any money doing it.

In fact, it's the opposite of doing something for a living.

I am waiting tables and tending bars so I'll have the money to spend on a PhD.

No sorcery to speak of, unless you count the power of words, and a cold brew coffee.

Naturally.

Potion of shake-a-lot and then poop weird.

Plus one to intelligence, minus one to constitution.

Minus one?

Have you had coffee before?

What were we talking about?

Leg armor.

Okay, yeah, probably that exists.

And if it didn't before, it could now, given the massive increase of bite injuries.

Right, and you get, I don't know, welder's gloves in case you need to use your hands.

And then you cone and kennel kennel your dog, specifically in the bathroom, door firmly shut.

And you wait, and you hope, and in the meantime, yeah, it's very gross, but you pee into a makeshift bedpan if you need to.

Every month?

For one night every month, because this is Pepper, your dog, who you love.

It's Pepper.

And if that's what it takes to keep him in your life, you do it one night at a time.

And you, I can't stress this enough, you label your pee pan so clearly.

So since I'm the only one of us that has a Reddit account, am I going to have to type all of this out?

Maybe just link link them to this episode.

They don't have any responses yet.

They might appreciate it.

Even the amount of verbal slapstick that it took us to get here.

It could make them feel like someone's at least along for the ride.

I feel like that's the main thing we can do right now.

It's part of what makes this slog worth it.

The way we can all reach to each other and even in the smallest ways, remind each other that for every stupid, sad, weird, ridiculous thing that happens to us, someone out there is dealing with some other situation just as buffucking.

You're saying no one is alone?

Everyone's alone.

It's one of the many things that we have in common.

I think that's as good as any place to leave off.

Yeah, this is Malik.

Oh, and hi, Jamie.

Signing out.

We know things are getting weirder every day, but we hope you're doing okay.

And we wish you all a better tomorrow.

Even when it's ashes, there'll be part of me that wishes we could stay.

Jamie and Malik are played by Hillary Williams and Michael Turrentine.

This episode was written by Jessica Best, directed and edited by Jeffrey Nills Gardner.

Our show art is by Carly Fairbanks.

And our bangin' theme song is Falling in Love at the End of the World by Olivia and the Lovers.

World Gone Wrong is produced and created by Jeffrey Nills Gardner and Eleanor Hyde.

This is a production of Audacious Machine Creative.

The Fable and Falling Network, where fiction producers flourish.

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