Footnotes: Dan Levy

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Hi, who here loves when their nails are perfectly done?

Me, I'm Sarah Gibson Tuttle, and I started Olive in June because let's be real, we all deserve to have gorgeous nails, but who wants to spend a fortune or half their day at the salon?

And that's why I created the Mani system.

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Hi, guys, and welcome to My Dad Rotor Porner, the Footnotes.

Now, today we are very, very lucky because we're joined by the creator and star of the biggest TV show on the planet right now, Shit's Creek.

It's Dan Levy.

Hi, Dan.

Hi, everybody.

What an honor and a thrill this is for me.

The honor is all ours.

I'm going to preface this by saying I just bought a house and I am for the first time in my new house.

And I'm more excited about what we're about to do than actually being in my new home.

What a house it will make.

So are you in America or Canada?

And where do you normally listen to the podcast?

I'm currently in Los Angeles, where I have been listening to it nightly.

And it's been a wonderful thing.

And I will say, like an intense binge of these books is I'm very concerned for my mental health.

Sure.

I mean, you know, I'm sort of in the process of figuring out what I'm doing next.

And I will say that having this as sort of a companion in the early stages of developing new ideas is a wonderful thing for any writer or creator.

It really makes you think you have real trust in your own abilities next to dad.

You're like, I could write anything.

Oh, my God.

The confidence, the sheer confidence exuded in his work is something that we can all learn from.

Totally.

So yeah, let's talk about it because how are you finding book five?

It's getting quite complicated, isn't it?

Here's why I talk about it being a sort of intellectual and psychological challenge because I don't think I'll ever be able to keep up with just the sheer complexity of this piece of art.

Oh, no, Dan, do not call it art.

I will say.

that every time that I am confused, you are confused, and that makes me feel comforted.

Okay.

Okay.

Good.

Do you know what I mean?

Like, it moves at a pace that's a lot faster than anything I'm used to in my life.

I'm just barely keeping up.

Well, I feel like dad's finally found plot.

I mean, shit plot, but you know, the stuff is happening for the first time ever in this book, and it's happening at a rate of knots.

You're right.

It is completely cinematic at this point.

And also, there is a murder.

Like, people have been murdered.

Yeah.

It's true.

You know what I mean?

Like, before it was, like, office place sex.

Now Now we're actually dealing with dead bodies.

I mean, Bish is sort of what I would call like an international criminal at this point.

I think when you bomb something,

that's an act of terrorism.

And

it sort of went away quite quickly.

Yeah.

And the consequences never really landed.

And then we actually meet the person.

who is orchestrating all of this and nobody decided to really put an end to his life.

Yeah, they just kind of let Bish go.

I mean, they, what they like, went for dinner with him and then just escaped themselves.

It was rubbish.

But I feel like to let him live is letting him suffer enough.

The man's not well.

But he lives in a cell.

Well, that's true.

I'm not sure we want to be at the vanguard of a new genre of porn, terrorotica.

Terrorotica is absolutely what it is.

And I have learned so many descriptives in the process of listening and reading this book.

I mean, rememberable

is a word that I hope to involve in my own work at some point.

I mean, I think there's some really profound contributions to the English language, and I plan on celebrating them.

What I love about the writing is that it can be, on one hand, completely descriptive.

We know everything about a person.

And then on the other hand, there's like a lot of use of like and stuff.

And I'm like, well, wait a minute.

I know literally the fabric that is being unbuttoned on Belinda's shirt, but I also don't know where they are.

Or when they are.

Or when they are, or who's in the room.

The addition of people to a room is also a really great thing.

If this were ever turned into a television show, the sheer mania of it all, like it would be like a Twilight Zone episode.

Is that how you would see it, Dan?

Would you see it as a kind of hybrid?

It would be a sort of horror meets, I mean, is it comedy?

Because some of it's kind of slapstick there's definitely some slapstick there's definitely some terror high intrigue thriller i could see it living on like fx

here in america i don't know whether there's like an effects version of whatever that would be in the uk we'd have been happy with straight to dvd so yeah sure fx is great It's a VHS tape that you just have to see.

Where do you think it's all going?

How do you think it's going to end?

Where do you think Rocky's going to take the the plot from here?

I mean, I know it's hard to predict, but if you were going to take charge of the direction,

what would you say?

I will say this.

Giselle is one of my favorite characters.

And I feel like she is, and would be if this were a TV show or a film, would be sort of who I would lean on in terms of driving a lot of story.

Because Belinda, I mean,

What I will say about Belinda that I find to be, I guess, a wonderful attribute is that she's so even keel that even when she's enthusiastic about something, it still plays as incredibly laissez-faire.

Yeah, she doesn't really have extremes of emotion.

No, which essentially, like, when I listen to it, in my mind, I'm picturing sort of like a lifeless rag doll that sort of gets tossed about.

and maybe smiles from time to time, but is okay generally with it.

Yeah, she's sort of like driftwood, pretty driftwood.

Exactly.

You can sort of like place her anywhere and she'd be fing.

Hi, who here loves when their nails are perfectly done?

Me, I'm Sarah Gibson Tuttle, and I started Olive in June because let's be real, we all deserve to have gorgeous nails, but who wants to spend a fortune or half their day at the salon?

And that's why I created the Manny system.

So you can have that salon perfect manicure right at home.

And guess what?

The best part?

Each Manny only costs $2.

Yup, you heard me, $2.

No more $30, $40, $50 salon trips that eat up your day.

Now you can paint your nails whenever you want, wherever you want.

And trust me, you're going to be obsessed with your nails, and everyone is going to ask you, where did you get your nails done?

And here's a little something extra: head over to olive and june.com and get 20% off your first Manny system with code perfectmanni20 at olivinjune.com/slash perfectmani20.

That's code perfectmanni20 for 20% off at olive and june.com/slash slash perfectmanny20.

You're all set for a nail glow-up.

Let's get those nails looking fabulous, shall we?

Fine.

People will be shouting with their headphones in that they feel like she's a much more developed, well-rounded, you know, feminist icon of a character.

I mean, I would obviously shout over them and tell them they were wrong, but Dan, you are, you're not necessarily making friends for yourself here.

No, I know.

And just don't get me wrong.

I am not saying that she isn't completely complicated and that someone in some sort of academic facility should be writing a dissertation on her and what she represents.

Sure.

I just feel like I'm really fascinated by the Giselle of the whole situation because I do feel like they are polar opposites that sort of create the magnetic energy of the show.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, Markover de Klotz versus Blumenthal is going to be one of those discussions that will carry on for years.

The fact that these names are the most unmemorable, memorable names.

it's like if you were pitching a tv show and you came in with these names some network executive would be like well nobody would be able to figure this out yeah i am still unclear on giselle's last name don't know how to spell it still difficult to say mars charge of the class

did that help i i rest my case yeah exactly

We've never proven a point so accurately ever.

It is truly a masterpiece.

It's a combination.

I mean, you know, you're selling out arenas at this point, so I don't need to tell you why it works.

You guys do live shows as well, right?

We do, yeah.

And they're, don't you have so much fun?

Yes.

They're mad.

They're so mad.

We start our second world tour next year.

We can't wait.

I know.

Well, I have to come to one of the dates.

Yeah, you got to.

You're coming to Los Angeles.

Yeah, of course.

Okay.

Well, then I will be there in the audience watching.

Come to Helsinki.

And

Helsinki not selling so well.

I'll fly to New Zealand.

I'll go wherever you are.

I'll do a full Rhodi band tour and just slowly have you hire someone to keep me away.

Yeah, to test your fandom, we're like, LA would be way too easy.

I'll just document the journey to Helsinki.

I never actually made it there, but I heard the show was great.

We might not make it there either, to be honest.

No, we will, Helsinki just.

There's always one that's nicer to have more intimate, isn't it?

So, if Giselle's your favorite character, who would you play?

Obviously, there's been a lot of talk about the movie version of Belinda Blink.

So, this is your opportunity.

Get on your knees, start begging.

Who would you like to play?

If nothing, then just a physical descriptor, I guess, thick-rimmed glasses.

Oh,

as soon as that descriptor came up, I was like, Well, this is me.

And then I guess it was a very flattering depiction of my body, if that were the case.

Thick-rimmed by name, thick-rimmed by nature, then.

Exactly.

My question to you is, when is this movie actually happening?

Well, that is the question.

I mean, we are having, you know, Spielberg's interested, Cameron's interested.

He said, after Avatar, he's going to do Belinda Blink.

Jick James on Diaz, that is.

You have a cast of actors that would...

You would have funding for this movie in a heartbeat.

So we'll talk after this is all done.

But I really want to help this get made.

But who would write the screenplay?

Like, Rocky would have to adapt his own book to the screen, screen, like E.L.

James did, I guess, with 50 Shades.

And that worked so well.

So, you know,

history can just repeat itself, right?

How about this, though?

I'm throwing something out there.

I feel like Rocky and David Lynch.

Oh, yeah.

Writing something together.

I feel like David Lynch's films exist in that strange space of like, what is happening?

What did I just look at?

It would be artful if we like brought in a David Lynch type figure to really help, how do I describe this, refine maybe some of the rougher edges of Rocky's writing and really

sort of raise the bar in terms of what we could actually do or say with this.

I would just love to be a fly on the wall in that room where Rocky and David Lynch are brainstorming.

Yeah.

That's the documentary that's sort of supplementary content for all of this.

Oh my God.

David Lynch is like, Rocky, we need to be more mainstream.

Has there been sort of a common actress that people have pitched for Belinda that is sort of at the forefront of our casting search?

That's the one role we no one wants to play Belinda.

I don't know why.

I will say this.

The characters' faces from the artwork on the books, at least from the ones that you can purchase in America.

It is, I'm not going to lie, there's a lot of people in Los Angeles that look like those characters.

You You can find many Belindas in the city of Los Angeles, not so shockingly.

Dan, it would be remiss to get you on and not ask you, for Jamie's benefit, really, how you deal with the father-son dynamic, because obviously you work with your dad.

In ways it's quite similar and in ways it's quite different.

I don't really have to deal with the reality of you know, my dad describing the inner folds of a woman's vagina.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Not for a living anyway, no.

You are lucky there, Daniel.

So in my mind, I have the sort of safety and security of just pretending like that doesn't exist to him.

Although you say that, he was in maybe the most iconic scene about a father and a son kind of having a sexual moment in American Pie.

I mean, was that, how old were you when that came out?

I was right in high school.

So key demographic.

So you basically could have been Jason Biggs in that movie.

I mean, there was a chapter of my life growing up where people used to ask me whether the show was a biography of my life, and I would say I would kill to have had an interesting life like that.

I was not fucking pies,

unfortunately.

I'm glad we got that on the record.

After the movie came out, I'm sure it was an epidemic of just people fucking pies.

That was not me.

He did not walk in on me having sex with a pie.

The movie was not about my life, sadly.

Dan, stop saying it.

We get it.

It wasn't you.

I also heard, Dan, that you were doing a sex scene on Shit's Creek in season one that your dad was present for.

My dad has become very sort of proud of me and my sister because my sister's on the show as well.

And really likes to, in all the scenes that he's not in, he really likes to sort of cheer from the sidelines.

And there was a scene in season one where I was in bed with the character of Stevie.

And I got to a point where I was like, can someone just tell my dad to leave?

I don't think he needs to be here for this.

I don't think it's benefiting him.

It's definitely not benefiting me.

And, like, I don't need the stage dad happening right now.

I love the idea of someone being like, Um, Eugene, uh, there's just something that's required of you in the hair and makeup right now.

So we could just borrow you.

Some squeaky-voiced intern coming up, being like, Oh, Mr.

Lovey, can you come with me for a second, please?

The actors have asked if you wouldn't stare.

I have an overarching question for you.

Okay.

I have tried and I've thought about it and I've made notes about it.

Belinda blinking, is there more to it?

Does she blink at a particular moment in her life?

Is there any connective tissue to why and when she blinks?

There's no connective tissue between her ears, Dan.

No, I think there is.

I think she always blinks when she's surprised.

Yes.

And when something hasn't gone the way that she perceived it to.

Interesting.

Okay.

Because Rocky is so good at keeping track of characters and throwing them in the mix when you least expect them, I feel like there has to be some sort of order to when he selects to write Belinda Blink.

Because also other people blink, don't they, as well?

And that always seems to be pertinent.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Usually it's also at an end of the chapter.

So it might just be like a narrative device.

A flourish.

But I was curious to know whether there was something deeper there.

Yeah, there are some fan theories, right, that when she blinks, it's something to do, it's something temporal.

It's something to do with time travel.

Wow.

Yeah, I think it was Rachel rachel bloom who said that every time she blinks she takes a mental photograph that is then sent to rocky in the past or future oh i can't remember well rachel thought that she was from the future she was like an alien right i think that's what rachel right right right right that would explain a lot yeah because the other thing is she doesn't do it very often which would suggest she's not human because she blinks like once a day or something like that so which is odd very dry eyes her eyes are sort of robotically self-lubricating she just is able to see but what an incredible humanoid if she is because she's lubricated in other departments that's true maybe it's all channeled to one area so it's maybe it's just what there's only one hose listen these sex robots are getting more and more evolved it is a whole new industry who's to say yeah we've seen ex machina they can do terrible and wonderful things

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Oh my god, what if everyone in Belinda Blinked is in an alternate universe where they're all sex robots and that's why their emotions are weird and their

go on holiday to Tokyo in 2014.

Oh, no.

It's actually.

No, I'm joking.

You didn't really.

I'm buying into this theory.

It sounds very good.

Yeah, it does.

You're kind of selling, isn't it?

It explains why there's so much sex.

I mean, she once had sex like, what, eight times in one day?

And granted, that day was felt like a full year, but it was multiple partners, which, you know, live your life.

But, you know, it would explain the like constant

need and

finding herself in these precarious situations where she just sort of slips into a sexual scenario.

To convey a belt of sex, yeah.

Yeah.

Dan, you said who you would like to play potentially.

Do you feel like Belinda Blink is accidentally maybe the most contemporary and sort of feminist pornography ever?

I don't want to put words in your mouth.

Like short answer, absolutely.

Because, you know, I feel like we're conditioned in today's society to be so aware of consent and when there's not consent.

And I'm always, every time I listen, she is consensually engaged in all of these scenarios.

Yeah.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

No, she is.

Absolutely.

Very empowered woman.

And that is, I think,

a necessary message to send out there.

I mean, she is never in a compromised situation and she's not opening herself up, so to speak.

to people that she does not want.

No, and she's in control of every single sexual liaison she has, I think.

And we've talked a lot about there being no shame in Belinda Blink, about wanting lots of sex and who you want sex with.

There's no discussion about labels, about, you know, am I gay?

Am I bisexual?

It's just like, I want to have sex with who I want to have sex with.

That's really freeing.

And on another note, like, everyone just loves having sex.

I mean, it's promoting something in a safe and free and lovely space.

And I'm not going to lie, I felt empowered and inspired by way of it.

Dan,

is this getting you horny?

Yeah.

I'm saying I need to have sex more, basically.

You're honestly the only person we've found that this turns on.

I'm sure there's more people that share my sentiment.

I agree.

A worrying amount of couples listen to this show in bed to go to sleep.

They're trying things.

They're doing role play.

Absolutely.

The amount of role play that this has inspired, I'm sure is culture defining.

There are couples all over the world that say, right, we're listening listening to the episode and whatever Belinda does we have to do tonight oh that's a fun I think that's a great game it is a good game what a Russian roulette of sexy time it could be anything it could be mistake sweet juice with all that cream and

because your character in Chit's Creek is pansexual yes yes we have a very similar approach on our show you know we we don't discuss really sexuality and it's not a conversation it's how it should be yeah sleep with whoever you want to sleep with no questions asked no shame attached.

And ultimately, we're all better for it.

I mean, the more open and free we can be with each other and the less shame that's attached, the better and safer we'll be.

So thank you, Belinda Blinked.

The only exception to that rule, Dan, I would say, is doing it in a conference room at work just off reception.

Well, who's to say, really?

Well, I'm going to say.

I'm going to say.

Don't location shame.

There's a worrying amount of similarities between your show and Belinda Blink's, Dan.

They're growing by the second.

We are often compared to Belinda Blink.

And to me, that is the greatest compliment I could get.

We have to say, the show has done phenomenally well.

It's massive.

Thanks.

Considering it's a very small sort of show that we make up in Canada.

We're stunned.

And, you know, we were all at the Emmys this year and looking around, sort of like deer caught in the headlights.

None of us quite knew why we were there or how we got there but we were really

really pumped to be to be there probably more than anyone else because everyone plays it really cool at those things well i think you're i mean you're gonna win next year right for the final season it's kind of a done deal so by you saying that that sort of means that it's happening right yeah for sure exactly okay then yes we are yeah as long as phoebe wallabridge doesn't write something it's like phoebe stay out of this i will say this i have never been more happy to lose to anyone or anything in my life than that show and and her.

No, it's a good one.

It's a good one to bow to.

So what are you doing for your, like, you're obviously coming to the end of your show.

How, how are you ending it?

Can you give us any exclusive little tidbits?

You know, it was really sad.

We shot the last episode in June, at the end of June.

And we've all been really close.

And I think when you go through something as life-changing as this with a group of people that you really love, it's...

always sad to say goodbye.

But fortunately, we've done something as you all have that's made people smile.

And that's quite an amazing thing and a rare sort of privilege.

So we're just excited about it.

I think the show is going to give the fans what they want.

I think the last season is really, you know, a marriage between servicing our characters, which I can't say on this podcast, servicing our characters.

No, I'm going to say, you know, giving the characters what they want and giving the fans what they want.

And it was the hardest season to write, obviously, because the expectations are high.

But I think we did a really nice job of wrapping it all up.

And hopefully, people enjoy it.

And it's coming out in January.

And, you know, we'll see.

Oh, I can't wait.

Do you think you'll stay in touch with like your dad and your sister, or will it be like once it's done, it's done?

Oh, oh, God, no.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

No, no, we're good.

You've got what you needed out of them.

Yeah, it's through.

I understand.

Exactly.

The contract was a seven-year deal, and we're working on it.

Oh, well, Dan, it's been so, so great having you on the show.

And thanks for being such a Balinka.

You're really outing yourself as an Uber fan here.

Well, thank you so much for having me.

And carry on, and I'll see you on tour.

Yes.

Yes.

See you in LA.