474 - It Cleans Ducks

Speaker 1 This is exactly right.

Speaker 1 This podcast is sponsored by PayPal.

Speaker 2 Okay, let's talk holiday shopping.

Speaker 1 From now through December 8th, you can get 20% cash back when you pay in four with PayPal. No fees, no interest.

Speaker 2 This limited time offer is perfect for the Black Friday and Cyber Monday deals you've been eyeing. Save the offer in the app now.

Speaker 1 So, whether you're buying tickets to an improv show or a whodunit board game, PayPal helps you make the most of your money this holiday.

Speaker 2 Expires December 8th. See PayPal.com/slash promo terms subject to approval.

Speaker 1 Learn more at paypal.com/slash payin4, PayPal Inc. NMLS 910-457.

Speaker 2 Goodbye. Goodbye.

Speaker 1 No one brings out your inner monster like a bad neighbor.

Speaker 1 Claire Danes and Matthew Reese find that out for themselves in The Beast in Me, a new eight-episode drama from the team that brought you homeland.

Speaker 2 Danes plays Aggie Wiggs, a grieving writer. Reese plays Niall Jarvis, her new neighbor and possible murderer.

Speaker 1 But who's the monster and who's the bad neighbor? That's another story.

Speaker 2 It's a game of cat and mouse that sets them on a collision course with fatal consequences.

Speaker 1 The Beast and Me, now playing only on Netflix.

Speaker 2 You will not want to miss this. Goodbye.
Goodbye. The holidays are here, which means long days, festive nights, and plenty of outfits to pull together.

Speaker 1 And if your bra isn't keeping up with the season, it's time for an upgrade.

Speaker 2 Most bras are uncomfortable and come off the minute you get home, but Honey Love is different.

Speaker 2 Treat yourself or someone special to the most comfortable and innovative bras on earth this holiday season.

Speaker 1 Save 20% off site-wide at honeylove.com/slash MFM.

Speaker 2 Use our exclusive link to get 20% off. That's honeylove.com/slash MFM.

Speaker 1 After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you.

Speaker 2 Celebrate this season feeling confident and comfortable with Honey Love. Goodbye.

Speaker 2 Hello and welcome. To my favorite murder.
That's Georgia Hardstar. That's Karen Kilgareth.

Speaker 1 We're just here to talk about a couple personal things. Then we're going to get right into crime.

Speaker 2 We are. You guys love true crime.

Speaker 1 You love hearing about it vis-a-vis our POVs.

Speaker 2 Hey, OMG. That was LOL.

Speaker 1 It's GBG.

Speaker 2 Okay, you were just telling me something and I told you to hold it for the podcast because I can't believe it.

Speaker 1 So we have a senior accountant, HR person, kind of like office guru, Jovanna. And she came to me the other day because we get to go to Chicago with our friends at iHeartRadio for the podcast movement.

Speaker 1 And it's like kind of a podcast weekend that we get to go to. And Giovanna came in and said,

Speaker 1 I don't like that you and Georgia fly on the same plane.

Speaker 2 That is so banana.

Speaker 1 And I go, no, no, that's how we do it. It's like, and then she goes, no, no, no.
You should not be on the same plane.

Speaker 2 Co-owners of a business, probably, right? And co-owners, co-hosts of a podcast. That's like next level, though.

Speaker 1 We've level up.

Speaker 2 Made it. We've made it.

Speaker 1 We've made it, my friend.

Speaker 2 Deet. Who's it going to be?

Speaker 2 Whose plane's going? Oh my God.

Speaker 1 Isn't that crazy? I was like, because at first I was like, that's so dark. And then I was like,

Speaker 1 that's for the C-suite.

Speaker 2 That's for the execs. Hey, hey, that's so, I just can't, that boggles my mind.
So who's changing flights?

Speaker 1 So see you later. Well, what I said is George and Vince love to go on like the first flight out often.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So that's no problem for me.

Speaker 2 There's a later flight you could totally take. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I sometimes have had to because I missed the flight you guys were on.

Speaker 2 That's happened before.

Speaker 1 Also, the last time when we flew to Austin, I walked on and you literally had to reach out to touch me to say hi.

Speaker 2 Because walking past me and you like wouldn't even.

Speaker 1 I'd have to go into my airport tube. Yeah.
Or I'd like really lose it. Yeah.
It's like I was in the tube from wherever I was sitting near the Guy Fieti Cafe or whatever.

Speaker 1 Like I get myself mentally to walk up, shit, give my ticket, walk on, find my seat. And I'm like, I'm not here to make friends.
Right.

Speaker 2 Otherwise, you'll end up like on the wrong plane. sitting next to fucking Guy Fieri himself.

Speaker 1 Or like making eye contact with a guy that looks like Guy Fieri. And then I'm in a silent fight and I don't know why.

Speaker 2 Oh my gosh, do you know what I did? That reminds me. So then you're like, hey, hi, you know me.

Speaker 2 Do you know what I did? So over the weekend, Vince and I went to Vegas really quickly just for a thing. And then we were going back.

Speaker 1 Say what you were doing.

Speaker 2 We went with his niece, who's in the FBI, to a hockey game, like Detroit Red Wings hockey game.

Speaker 1 To arrest the star forward. Yes.

Speaker 2 And we were, okay, we took Jet Sweet X, which is like a quick trip from Birmingham. It's like really easy.
And like, fucking, yeah, she, she, pinkies out, brag.

Speaker 2 but but not crazy not crazy it's really not it's not no and it's yeah

Speaker 2 fucking lisa vanderpump was on my flight oh in the fucking waiting area and i was like freaking out because i love that show and so i did this thing that later my friends told me every fucking celebrity knows about, which is I pretended to take a selfie and just took a photo of her instead.

Speaker 2 And they were like, she knew what you were doing. I was like, no, no, I was so subtle.
And like, I was smiling and doing a piece sign. Like I was taking a selfie.
And they were like, no, yeah.

Speaker 2 She hates you.

Speaker 2 Yeah. She hates you forever.
Yeah. She had a dog with her.
It was just the whole experience was amazing. I think she like owns shares in JSX.
So probably.

Speaker 1 She has to show up once a month to like get the selfies out there. There's no way she doesn't like having her picture taken that way.

Speaker 2 I mean, she looked incredible at like 11 a.m. on a Sunday.

Speaker 1 What is she originally like from? Why would she get a reality show?

Speaker 2 Real Housewives. She's OG Real Housewives of LA, I think, which I never watched, but then I started watching Vanderpump Rules, and I'm just obsessed.
Yeah. So, yeah.

Speaker 1 Some crazy stuff happens in the later season.

Speaker 2 She's actually like not a piece of shit, which is like, you know, you'd see in Real Housewives. Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's kind of nice. No, I've seen a couple clips of her.
She seems really smart and really, well, she's a British lady.

Speaker 1 Make it it in America. Can I just really quickly explain? Because we are on video.
Listeners, you don't have to worry about this. Viewers, my apologies.
I dyed my roots this morning.

Speaker 1 And then only when I'd mixed up the color and was about to apply it did I realize I don't have any plastic gloves. So

Speaker 1 it looks a little wild.

Speaker 2 It looks like you've been gardening, which is nice.

Speaker 1 Yeah, except for that I haven't.

Speaker 2 Just say you've been gardening. Yeah.
Because that sounds like classy. It does.
It doesn't look classy. Have you ever tried taking plastic like zip bags, like sandwich bags?

Speaker 2 I've done that. It works a little bit.
You just put your hands in plastic baggies.

Speaker 1 Yeah, at least it's something. It's something.
I just didn't even think about it at all because I was like, I just need to get this shit on my roots and get out of of here.

Speaker 2 Hairspray sometimes helps a little. Cover your hands in hairspray.
Because I've done that many times, including with pink.

Speaker 2 So I had bright pink fucking hands that I was supposed to be on video that day. Oh, shit.
Yeah. Okay.
So you spray the shit out of your hands with hairspray and then wipe it off. Okay.
I'll try that.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I was also thinking because I have Dawn dish detergent, which seems to be a part of every recipe of getting stamped.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It cleans oil off ducks.
It's got to clean fucking dye off your hands.

Speaker 1 Ducks. I can clean these shit hands.

Speaker 2 I have a book

Speaker 2 that I'm so excited about. So, my friend Jane Borden wrote a book about cults.
Oh, yes. Yeah.
You know her? I'm so impressed in a way that was like, oh, no, I can't hang out with her again.

Speaker 2 Oh, no, she's great. She's too smart for me.

Speaker 1 You gotta, you gotta aim high. You gotta get those people around you that get you going.

Speaker 2 Like, I think about all the things I've said in front of her, and I'm like, oh, no. It's called Cults Like Us.
Why Doomsday Thinking Drives America. I fucking love it.
Wow.

Speaker 2 It is basically about cult thinking and how it drives America, starting with the original American or U.S. cult, the Puritans.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So impressed. I think it's going to be really good for people who grew up very religious and are questioning it or have, you know, transitioned out of it and kind of want some.

Speaker 1 Somewhere to go.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And like something to show them that they were right about it.
Like, so if you have a friend or a sister like that, I highly recommend. But Cults Like Us by Jane Borden.

Speaker 2 It's going to make you smarter. I'm definitely going to read it.

Speaker 2 It's a fucking hot take.

Speaker 1 And just a little insider information, I basically inserted myself into when Kurt Broneler and Scotty Landis were writing the pilot for one of Kurt's old pilots. And Jane was one of the writers.

Speaker 1 I didn't have a job at the time. So I was like, well, I'll swing by and just like kind of like went and wrote along with them.
It's really hilarious. But she was actually the other official writer.

Speaker 2 Yeah, she's awesome. Yeah.

Speaker 1 What do you got anything? No, I think let's just get into business.

Speaker 2 Let's do it. We have a podcast network that's just growing every day in every possible way.

Speaker 1 Every way. We launched the knife.
I'm so excited.

Speaker 2 Last week. It's so exciting.

Speaker 1 It's so great. It's doing so great.
Yeah. Those guys really roll.
Please listen to it. Please do.

Speaker 2 So here's some highlights from our network. Over on Dear Movies, I love you, Millie and Casey are diving into the brilliant brain of Bong Joon-ho from his past work, like Parasite and the Host.

Speaker 2 Like, come on.

Speaker 1 If you haven't seen the movie The Host, it's so great. It's like an adventure monster movie from Korea.
Yeah. So good.

Speaker 2 To his brand new film, Mickey 17. And they're joined by comedian and film obsessive.
This guy is the best. Unsung.
He's one of the funniest fucking comedians I've ever seen and a friend, Josh Fadham.

Speaker 1 Josh Fadam should be more famous than all the comics.

Speaker 2 He was in Better Call Sol as like the weird videographer guy. And he was also the lawyer in 30 Rock.
And it's like fucking star term. He's just, he's so good.

Speaker 2 So check out Dear Movies.

Speaker 1 I love you. And also Josh Vadam's on TikTok now.
He has like a, he put together like this talk show that he's doing. Yeah, he's out there.
I love him.

Speaker 1 Then over on Ghosted by Roz Hernandez, Roz stumbles through a secret trapdoor and lands directly in the presence of Bridger Weiniger, the writer, actor, and host of I Said No Gifts.

Speaker 1 They talk about the legendary 90s pseudo-doc alien autopsy. Remember that when they were like, we've got a body and we're going to do an autopsy on it.
It was all fake.

Speaker 1 And a bunch of other spooky stuff. They're just a couple pals getting spooky.

Speaker 2 I love it. I love the ERM crossover.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 This week on the Knife's companion show off record, it's like their mini, they take you behind the scenes of making a true crime podcast and Patia shares the details.

Speaker 2 This is fucking such a great episode of a missing person's case in Tennessee. If you are like me and you like cold cases getting solved and you have a theory about it, I'm not going to give it away.

Speaker 2 Oh my God, this episode's so fucking good. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it's something Patia researched and like discovered on her own.

Speaker 2 I'm so glad they got to put it out. Like, yeah.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 And it's really great because the knife is the main episode are those, you know, deep dive interview shows. It takes a long time to assemble.
It's like, it's a lot of work.

Speaker 1 So off record is basically their rest in between shows where they're like, you can write in, ask questions,

Speaker 1 make comments, say, hey, that was my aunt's neighbor type of stuff. And it's like a talk back show.
But then they get to talk about the stories that are too short to be a full episode. Right.

Speaker 2 Which they are still obsessed with. I mean, I'm so fucking happy they're on our knife.
I know. Knife.
Very proud.

Speaker 1 Please follow.

Speaker 2 We're proud of all of our podcasts.

Speaker 1 And especially this podcast will kill you.

Speaker 1 They have had this amazing four-part pregnancy series, and they're wrapping it up this week with a big picture look at how childbirth has changed over the past century. Fascinating.

Speaker 1 And what those changes mean for new parents. They explore the fourth trimester, which is one of the most common, least discussed postpartum conditions, which is postpartum depression.

Speaker 2 So true.

Speaker 1 You can listen wherever you get your podcast, or you can watch that entire series on our YouTube channel over at youtube.com/slash exactly exactly right media.

Speaker 2 Please follow that as well. And while you're on YouTube, don't forget to check out I Send No Gifts Bridger's five-year anniversary special.
It's now up.

Speaker 2 It's featuring the delightfully chaotic Chris Fleming. He's so funny.
It's two hours of betrayal, celebration, and special surprises. Watch it at your desk while you're being paid to work.

Speaker 2 That's right. I dare you.
Available now at, that's right, youtube.com slash exactly right media.

Speaker 1 It's such a delightful episode. I watched a couple minutes, and Bridger's wearing the most insane outfit and his white gift gloves.
I love it.

Speaker 1 And Chris Fleming is just sitting over there being the ultimate talk show guest. It's really a delight.

Speaker 1 And finally, doo-doo-doo, we have a merch update, our iconic Ga fuck yourself mug, which listeners, just so you know, in real life, we're holding up right now for the viewer.

Speaker 2 So if you go to YouTube, you can see us holding our adorable GaFuck Yourself mug.

Speaker 1 Go fuck yourself. And old-fashioned Las Vegas.

Speaker 2 It's so old-fashioned Las Vegas. I love it.

Speaker 1 So we re-released it for episode 11 of Rewind, and we're going to do it again because you loved it so much that I think they sold out. So we're re-releasing it.

Speaker 1 This was designed by the amazing Ginny and Tonic, J-I-N-I-N-Tonic, and they're available now at the exactlyrightstore.com.

Speaker 2 A sleek, professional website makes you look very put together, even when you're wearing sweatpants and eating cereal out of a mug.

Speaker 1 And that's where Squarespace comes in.

Speaker 2 Squarespace gives you everything you need to offer your services and get paid all in one place.

Speaker 1 From consultations to experiences, showcase your services with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business.

Speaker 2 And managing those payments is a breeze. In just a few clicks, you'll be able to accept payments with options like Klarna, Apple Pay, Afterpay, and more.

Speaker 1 You'll get paid on time with professional on-brand invoices and online payments. Plus, streamline your workflow with built-in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools.

Speaker 2 And get discovered faster with Squarespace's built-in SEO tools. With meta descriptions and auto- generated site maps, you'll rank higher in search results globally.

Speaker 1 Go to squarespace.com slash murder for a free trial and when you're ready to launch use offer code murder to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

Speaker 2 That's squarespace.com slash murder code murder. Google.
Go by.

Speaker 1 It's spooky season, but your home should feel lived in, not haunted.

Speaker 2 Article has everything you need to create a stylish home at an unbeatable price.

Speaker 1 They offer a curated range of mid-century modern, coastal, and scandy-inspired pieces that not only shine on their own, but also pair seamlessly with other article products.

Speaker 2 Article takes great care in curating its collection, focusing solely on high-quality, meaningful pieces that will stand the test of time. There's no filler.

Speaker 2 Every item is chosen for its craftsmanship, design, and lasting value.

Speaker 1 And Article provides fast and affordable shipping across the U.S. and Canada.
You get to choose your delivery time, and they'll keep you in the loop with updates along the way.

Speaker 1 I know I've mentioned already how much I love my entryway table, but I swear to God, because the path that it's on, like you have to walk out of the front of my house to walk to the bathroom.

Speaker 1 So I pass it four times a day and I love it more every time. It's like perfectly made, stylish, all these things that I needed and wanted.
And it was under $100.

Speaker 2 I've seen it and I will vouch for it. It was freaking adorable.
And it fits so well with your house. Yes.

Speaker 2 So if you're in the market for a beautiful new sofa, dining table or bed, head over to article.com. Goodbye.
Goodbye. Every holiday season, it's the same.

Speaker 2 You've got one person who's impossible to shop for and another who, quote, doesn't need anything. anything.

Speaker 1 Great, then they're going to get my macaroni art.

Speaker 2 Or go to Quince. They have timeless pieces that make perfect gifts, soft sweaters, silk tops, and outerwear that's built to last.

Speaker 1 Quince has all the elevated essentials you need. Think Mongolian cashmere from $50, premium denim that fits like a dream, and silk tops and skirts that add polish.

Speaker 1 I just got my key piece for the season, which is a plain black Mongolian. sweater.

Speaker 2 You love those Quince sweaters.

Speaker 1 Right? It just came out of the bag. I think I put it on and walked directly to a record with you.
There's just nothing like a beautiful cashmere sweater when the weather turns cold and it's $50.

Speaker 2 Well, I got some underwear from them, but I also got a second pair, my second pair of their Italian leather bow ballet flats. I have one in black now and one in almond because I'm obsessed with them.

Speaker 1 Step into the holiday season with layers made to feel good, look polished, and last from Quince.

Speaker 2 Perfect for gifting or keeping for yourself.

Speaker 1 Go to quince.com/slash MFM to get free shipping on your order and 365-day day returns. Now available in Canada too.

Speaker 2 That's quince.com slash mfm to get free shipping and 365 day returns.

Speaker 1 Quince.com slash mfm.

Speaker 2 Goodbye.

Speaker 2 Okay, this is one of those stories that I just kept adding stuff to and wanting to research more until like I literally had to stop to go and get in the shower to get ready for this recording. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Cause I am so like this case is, ah, it gives me chills. It has been burning in my head since I saw it 20-something fucking years ago on Forensic Files.
Yeah. And you'll probably remember it too.

Speaker 2 Today's story is a SoCal hometown that I remember from my childhood as well as at Forensic Files.

Speaker 2 It's a chilling case from the 1980s, one that could have easily slipped through the cracks, turning into a cold case. But instead, something incredible happened.

Speaker 2 Dozens of women, trusting their instincts, came forward and they brought the truth to light and helped bring down a monster and take a potential serial killer off the streets.

Speaker 2 This is the story of the murder of Kara Knott, K-N-O-T-T.

Speaker 2 The main sources for the story are a 2004 episode of Forensic Viles and reporting from the Escondido Daily Times Advocate by David Ogle. And the rest can be found in the show notes.

Speaker 2 So it's December 1986. We're in the San Diego area.
Kara Knott is 20 years old and she's a junior at San Diego State University. She's super smart.
She graduated with honors from high school.

Speaker 2 She runs tracks. She's studying to be a teacher.
Just a fucking good person.

Speaker 2 Kara has been with her boyfriend Wayne since they were in high school. They're very much in love.
Wayne also goes to San Diego State and everyone who knows them say they're a beautiful couple.

Speaker 2 Over the school's winter break, Kara and Wayne each go home to their families in Southern California in the San Diego area. But Wayne comes down with the flu.

Speaker 2 And so on December 26th, Kara goes to visit him in Escondido driving from her family's home in El Cajon.

Speaker 2 It's about a 40-minute drive. And while she's at Wayne's, Kara repeatedly calls her mother for advice about how to take care of a sick person.

Speaker 2 Oh, which is so like, I'm 20 and I'm still learning about life kind of a thing.

Speaker 1 It just immediately made me think of this time, my parents were on vacation. I had to call my aunt Jean and ask her how long you thaw a turkey.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 Because we were trying to do a like friends. giving yeah and my friend had like a 25 pound turkey and she was like oh you should probably take that out about 12 hours before.

Speaker 1 And we were like, Oh, we're supposed to serve it in four hours.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 you just don't know a life yet.

Speaker 1 You just don't know what you're doing.

Speaker 2 Like, the first time I went to like pump my own gas, I was like, fuck, I don't know how to fucking do this. Like, I just realized I don't know how to do this.

Speaker 1 Where's the button?

Speaker 2 So, it's just like this little detail that like kind of breaks your heart.

Speaker 1 And also puts you in this time, you know, 1986, I was 16 years old. And so, Kara was at college, not new to college, like, but

Speaker 1 right. So she's a little bit more adult than the average.

Speaker 2 Yeah, she's been in a long-term relationship. So she's not like probably partying or anything like that.

Speaker 1 But also, like, so many people from Northern California, you go to San Diego State, and that's like you're really busting out and you're on your own. Totally.

Speaker 1 Everything about her is very California in the 80s. Exactly.

Speaker 2 She stays over that night and hangs out with Wayne all day the next day. And it's his family home as well.
So she takes care of him. And by the evening of the 27th, Wayne is starting to feel better.

Speaker 2 and Kara decides to head home to her family house. She calls her parents at about 8 p.m.
and tells them she's about to hit the road.

Speaker 2 That time of night with light traffic, she should be home before 9 p.m., not more than an hour.

Speaker 2 But by 10 p.m., the normally punctual Kara still isn't home and her father, Sam, Sam not, has a horrible feeling that something is very wrong. Kara's parents call Wayne.

Speaker 2 He says he hasn't heard from her since she left at 8.

Speaker 2 And so the dad gets in the car to drive the whole freeway between his home and Wayne's house and Escondido to look for Kara. You know, maybe she just ran out of gas or something happened to her car.

Speaker 2 There's no cell phone, so it's possible. Right.

Speaker 2 At the same time, Kara's mother starts calling every hospital and police station along the route to see if there had been an accident, which has to be every parent's fucking nightmare. Absolutely is.

Speaker 2 Friends and family join in the search with Sam, the father. And as the police say, they can't do anything at the moment, which is one of those, you have to wait 24 hours.

Speaker 2 And I feel like nowadays, a missing 20-year-old college student driving, hopefully that doesn't happen anymore. But we don't know.
I don't think it's, I don't think so.

Speaker 1 Hopefully it's gone the way of they're just a runaway

Speaker 2 waited out. Right.
Right holding. Or she'll come home when she's ready.
Yeah. Yeah.
That kind of thing. The family and friends search team check every exit for over eight hours.

Speaker 2 Right around dawn, they find Kara's car. It's a white VW bug, and the picture of it sitting in this desolate area was seared into my mind in this forensic files.

Speaker 2 The car is at a bottom of an off-ramp off the I-15, which is pretty desolate. It's just about the midway point between Escondido and El Cajon, about 20 miles from each.

Speaker 2 The freeway at that point runs over an overpass, and the off-ramp leads down to a sparsely wooded area. There's nothing around.
It's not like there's gas stations and stuff. It's kind of very remote.

Speaker 2 It's a desolate spot, and her white beetle looks completely out of place in the photo.

Speaker 2 Back then, I'm sure it's all built up in the area now, but there were some desolate spots along the road in California, in Southern California.

Speaker 2 Kara's car is found with the driver's seat window rolled halfway down. Her purse is on the front seat.
Her keys are in the ignition, which is super suspicious.

Speaker 2 There's also a receipt from a gas station about 15 miles further north on the freeway, so not far from where she had left in Escondido.

Speaker 2 At this point, with her car car being found, San Diego police and California highway patrol officers arrive at the scene and they begin searching the area.

Speaker 2 About two hours later, they make a devastating discovery.

Speaker 2 In a dry, dusty creekbed at the bottom of a 70-foot bridge, not far from where her car had been left, Kara's body has been found seemingly tossed over the bridge.

Speaker 2 The photo of the bridge has stuck in my mind. It's one of those beautiful arching bridges, like super desolate.

Speaker 2 It doesn't it look like the place where in the 80s you would have gone in high school with your friends to go drink? Yes. Like it's one of those places.
Right.

Speaker 2 And then above on the road of the bridge, investigators see fresh tire marks and take impressions and photographs of those.

Speaker 2 So Kara's father, Sam, is on the scene when authorities discover his daughter's body, but he doesn't see her for himself. Good.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 He can tell, though, that something has happened, and he approaches the sheriff and asks if they found Kara.

Speaker 2 When the the sheriff tells him they have and that she's dead Sam says quote I wish you could have known her she was an angel end quote I know almost cried writing this what a horrible thing I know to be there obviously like I got to go out there and find my daughter and then it's like the worst possible worst possible so for the first couple of days after Kara's death police say they have some leads but no suspects of course Kara's boyfriend Wayne is looked into but he's quickly ruled out because he hadn't left his family's home.

Speaker 2 Later, Wayne will tell a reporter, quote, we've planned on being 90 years old together, 100 years old together, sitting in our little rocking chairs, two crotchetty old fogeies holding hands.

Speaker 2 I know.

Speaker 1 Every one of these stories is as heartbreaking as the last. Yeah.
It's just, I don't know. It's just so sad.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Totally.
When Kara's body is examined, there are no signs of sexual assault.

Speaker 2 There are ligature marks around her neck, and there are two bruises on her face, one on her eyebrow and one on her cheek. The medical examiner rules her cause of death to have been strangulation.

Speaker 2 There's a little bit of other physical evidence recovered from Kara's body. A single drop of blood is found on her shoe that doesn't belong to her.
It's 1986, so DNA isn't.

Speaker 2 you know, a thing that's available to everyone. But the blood type is tested and it's AB positive, which is not her blood type, and it's one of the rarest blood types as well.

Speaker 2 Additionally, a single gold fiber is pulled off of Kara's sweatshirt, and it's unique in that it's been colored gold with a pigment rather than a dye, which is so forensic files back then. Right.

Speaker 2 I can hear it narrated in my head.

Speaker 1 Also, that kind of thing where when another fascinating piece of like that kind of forensic investigation is that you think things are like, oh, if you're on the beach, it's just sand, it's just rocks.

Speaker 1 Right. And then it's like, no, no, no, because the only, you know, silica is here and not there.

Speaker 2 Totally.

Speaker 1 All that stuff.

Speaker 2 Like you learn about how investigable some areas can be yeah or like decomposition and bug life and stuff i mean it's fascinating it's amazing yeah and coloring fiber with this pigment is an antiquated technique that's very rarely used in 1986 so they know it's significant and then investigator visit the gas station kara had gone to the attendants remember seeing her pumping gas not long after 8 p.m they say she was alone they didn't see her speak to anyone and she drove off and she had a full tank of gas right so it wasn't that, you know.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 2 That was a little bit after Christmas, like December 27th, and then through the end of the year and into January of 1987, the police say publicly that they're at a loss and they ask the public for help in figuring out what happened to Kara.

Speaker 2 And a $10,000 reward is issued by the family for information leading to an arrest, which in today's money

Speaker 1 $50,000?

Speaker 2 $30,000.

Speaker 2 Close. San Diego police also asked the public to call either their office or the Crime Stoppers tip line with any information that might help.

Speaker 2 The community around San Diego is understandably on edge after the seemingly unexplained murder of a college student who was just driving home.

Speaker 2 And we got a lot of emails from murderinos in our email box of like my mom, my grandma, that everyone was just like, like San Diego was very quiet then and suburban. It still is, I think.

Speaker 2 So it was just like terrified. Yeah.
This is just unheard of.

Speaker 2 And then right after Kara's body is discovered, the local news runs a segment about what drivers can do to stay safe on the freeways at night.

Speaker 2 The reporter actually rides along with a California Highway Patrol officer who warns that drivers who have car trouble, especially at night, should stay in their car with the doors locked.

Speaker 2 He says, like, you know, women could get raped, men could get mugged, or, you know, everyone could get murdered. It's like very...
scary. You should stay in your car, even if to spend the night.

Speaker 2 Don't like, don't get out of your car.

Speaker 2 And then if someone approaches to help, the driver should ask that person to go get help rather than letting them help. And this is still to this day something you should absolutely

Speaker 2 do, right? That's good advice. Yeah.
He warns never to get in the car with someone else or to let another person in the car.

Speaker 1 Sorry, someone has a story of, oh, it was our family friend, Priscilla, who her car broke down. I think it was in the rain and she was like nine months pregnant or like eight months pregnant.

Speaker 1 And so this guy pulls up.

Speaker 2 No, no, no. The zodiac killer pulls up.

Speaker 2 Jesus Christ.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 it's the opposite. This guy's car has broken down in the rain.
She pulls up and gets out to help him. And he goes, what are you doing? Get back in that car.

Speaker 2 Why would you do that? And

Speaker 2 he screams at her, like, get out of here. He's so damn.
Yes, exactly. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 He was like, why would you ever risk your life? Like, don't help men like this. Don't do it.

Speaker 2 Stay in your car. Yeah.
And so this would all be very standard and unremarkable, this segment that this journalist made.

Speaker 2 But after this segment airs, something strange starts to happen over at the tip line that the police had opened up.

Speaker 2 People, especially women, start calling in and saying that that same highway patrolman who had been in the news segment had pulled them over at the exact same exit where Kara's car had been found.

Speaker 2 And they say that this highway patrolman had pulled them over for like mostly trivial things that didn't really warrant being pulled over off the freeway.

Speaker 2 For example, a murderino named Hannah had emailed in that her grandma had gotten a fix-it ticket from this highway patrolman for a missing license plate.

Speaker 2 And he tried to meet up with her after to like get signed off so that she wouldn't get have to pay the ticket. And she was like, no, thank you.
And got it signed by someone else.

Speaker 2 But like, he was like, it was him. Yes.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 He was like, this is like his strip of the highway.

Speaker 2 It seems

Speaker 1 like no men coming forward to say they also were pulled over. Right.
Just a bunch of women.

Speaker 2 Exactly. And this officer would direct them to exit the freeway at this place.
It was called Mercy Road.

Speaker 2 In one instance, even having the driver reverse on the freeway against traffic to get back to that exit and then told them to drive to the bottom of the secluded, unlit off-ramp where Kara's white beetle was found.

Speaker 1 Please tell me that in this modern day, everybody hearing Georgia say that recognizes the insanity and would not do it.

Speaker 2 And then he actually had been questioned about this behavior.

Speaker 2 Like people in the department were aware of it, but he had been commended on it because he said he did it to avoid a potentially dangerous stop on the freeway.

Speaker 2 So one woman actually came forward and told the Times Advocate newspaper, pretty much right after Kara's murder was reported, that based solely on the location where her body was found, she thought that the person responsible was a California highway patrolman who had pulled her over nine months earlier.

Speaker 2 She's like, fuck, you know, she didn't know his name at the time she told the story. She says that he flashed his lights and used his loudspeaker to direct her down that same remote off-ramp.

Speaker 2 And then once she was in that remote area, he started accusing her of driving a stolen vehicle. But she says his demeanor was strange, like he was like flirting with her, maybe, trying to ask her out.

Speaker 2 And she says that then he abruptly let her go after a San Diego police car passed that spot. So suddenly he fucking skedaddled.

Speaker 1 Man. I know.

Speaker 2 And this fucking badass chick was like.

Speaker 1 Hello. Excuse me.
I have a story to tell.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that happened to me. So she tells this story to the paper.
And then she sees the right-along footage on TV of this highway patrolman. And she's like, that is the fucking guy I told you about.

Speaker 1 That's that psychopathic tendency where they're smarter than everybody and they can't let it go. They have to be the face of the thing.
They have to be out in front playing this part.

Speaker 1 And they basically get themselves caught.

Speaker 2 He calmly was in this segment and you can watch it online.

Speaker 1 Playing the part of the kindly peace officer that's there to help.

Speaker 2 He's concerned about what's happening in his community.

Speaker 2 So creepy. And so, yeah, so she's sure it's the same guy.
Double checks. She's like, this is him.
So the man is 36-year-old Craig Pyr, a 13-year veteran of the California Highway Patrol.

Speaker 2 And all told, about 30 women come forward saying that Pyre had pulled them over in that same spot. 30.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Count to 30 right now. Feel how many women that is.
Right.

Speaker 2 It's wild. It's wild.
So bold.

Speaker 2 Many of the women said that he proceeded to get in the passenger seat and try to question them when he pulled them over, but that the questions he asked were inappropriate and he was actually just sexually harassing them.

Speaker 2 Good God.

Speaker 2 And then, this is the creepiest, like, is this a movie? What are you talking about thing?

Speaker 2 A bunch of people point out. that after a closer examination of the local news segment featuring Pyre, it appears that there are some scratches on his face.
Oh. And this is days after Kara's murder.

Speaker 2 This segment had been shot very shortly after Kara's murder, and people suspect that those scratches were from Kara trying to defend herself. In the video, you can see scratches on his face.

Speaker 1 Imagine the 1986 murderinos that know all these things, but that are

Speaker 1 still to that point, like by themselves, alone being like, I like a weird thing that I shouldn't be paying attention to.

Speaker 1 What we all used to believe. And they're recognizing all of these things that, like, you would have to be reading a Gavin DeBecker book or some Anne Rule stuff to really be aware of.

Speaker 2 Totally.

Speaker 1 And they're just like cold chills being like, oh my God. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm sure so many people called in and was like, why does he have scratches on his fucking face?

Speaker 1 Also, can we see the rest of the footage? What else can we see in the rest of the footage?

Speaker 1 Wow. So chilling.

Speaker 2 And then also Kara's mother, Joyce, comes forward to tell police that she and Kara had taken a self-defense class recently and one of the things they were taught was to scratch at an attacker's eyes and the scratchers are like right by his nose.

Speaker 2 Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I actually like text myself, sign up for a self-defense class.

Speaker 1 I want to do one here.

Speaker 2 Ooh, that's a great idea.

Speaker 1 Wouldn't it be cool? Yeah. Just like seven o'clock one night, everyone's done with work.

Speaker 2 If you want to stay for a self-defense course. Yep.

Speaker 1 Hell yeah. It's kind of weekly.
So it's kind of like working out a little bit. But then it's also like punching and kicking.

Speaker 2 Ooh, I want to do it. I'll be here.
Okay. If you can believe it.

Speaker 2 I'm never here. I don't even have an office.
Okay.

Speaker 2 So then on Friday, January 15th, Craig Pyre is arrested for Kara's murder, which actually there's a murderino who's like Pyre's wife was my mom's best friend and she was at the fucking house when the police arrested the husband.

Speaker 2 And then they asked her to be a character witness for him at his trial. And she was like, hell fucking no.
Really? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, what a nightmare. Like, you're living this life and you think you know exactly where everything's lined up and what's going on with everything.

Speaker 1 And just one day there's a knock on the door and everything gets ripped apart.

Speaker 2 Your husband,

Speaker 2 because he had children from multiple marriages and they have a young baby, your husband is a monster.

Speaker 1 Nightmare. Nightmare.

Speaker 2 His neighbors are all utterly shocked when this story comes out.

Speaker 2 People who know him say he was extremely proud to be a highway patrolman, which we know is like wanting to involve yourself in law enforcement.

Speaker 1 But actually passing the tests, which usually these stories are about people that want to do that, can't pass the tests. Right.

Speaker 2 And then right, right. Yeah.
I mean, those are the ones we know about, though. Yeah, I know.
How many we don't know about.

Speaker 2 And they said it was a huge part of his personality. And of course, the women who Pyre pulled over on the highway are not surprised or shocked at all to hear about him.
Right.

Speaker 2 You know, the neighbors are. These women are like, he gave me the ick.

Speaker 1 Well, and also, why do I have to say out loud that it gave me the ick to get pulled over off the highway down into a fucking ravine? Yeah. Like, it's like the first time that got reported.

Speaker 1 It should, he should have been removed from the entire area.

Speaker 2 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 What could you have been doing? Right. And then you did it 30, minimum 30 times.

Speaker 2 Right. Right.

Speaker 1 I'm yelling at you.

Speaker 1 So irritating. No, no, it's fine.

Speaker 2 You're exactly right. So Craig Pyre's log from the night of Kara's disappearance shows him making a traffic stop in a totally different area at the exact time Kara is killed, of course.

Speaker 2 But surprise, surprise, it's written in pencil and the entry has clearly been erased and rewritten.

Speaker 2 So, and the people who he did actually pull over at that time were like, that wasn't what time it was. And he was fucking disheveled and something was wrong.
Like, no. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 So, on examination of Pyre's patrol car, the distance, you know, the tires match up, essentially, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 Forensic investigators match the gold fiber on Kara's sweatshirt to the embroidery thread that was used to make the gold border on the California Highway Patrol shoulder patch on Pyre's uniform.

Speaker 2 I remember that part of the forensic files episode. Yeah.
Yeah. Craig Pyre's blood type is AB positive, same as the drop that was on Kara's shoe.
You know, it goes on and on. It's just clear.

Speaker 2 So police believe essentially that Pyre had seen Kara filling up her car with gas at the station near Escondido. And I bet that was his stalking point.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 Like you're a fucking lion and you're looking for your prey. Like, I bet he stayed there until at night, women alone in a car and then followed followed them to the spot.

Speaker 1 Well, because you get out, you have to pump the gas, you have to walk around. So it's just like they're on parade for him to be totally.

Speaker 2 It's just so chilling. And then that he followed her until they neared his preferred remote off-ramp.

Speaker 2 And then he likely did what he had done to all the other women, flashed his lights, used his loudspeaker to direct her off the ramp.

Speaker 2 And then they believed that Pyre tried to get in the car with Kara or harass her. Remember, her window is halfway down.
She's like, yes, officer.

Speaker 2 And she possibly refused to let him in or threatened to report him or some combination of that.

Speaker 2 And they believe that Pyre ordered Kara out of the car and Kara fought back after possibly he touched or threatened Kara in some way. And she fought, which is just incredible.

Speaker 2 And at that point, she scratched his face and the thought is that he hit her twice in the face with his flashlight and then killed her by strangling her with some rope he had in his his trunk.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 he did so to deny or cover up anything she could have said, which is, fuck you. Yeah.
Fuck you. Yep.
So Pyre is tried in 1988. His first trial results in a hung jury.
Don't fucking ask.

Speaker 2 He's retried, found guilty of first-degree murder and sentenced to life in prison. He has always maintained his innocence.

Speaker 2 He's still alive, but he's had opportunities to have his DNA tested against the DNA in the blood drop from Kara Shou, like by Innocence Project people,

Speaker 2 which matched his blood type, and he refuses to

Speaker 2 get good for me that day.

Speaker 1 I can't make it.

Speaker 2 Oh, my cheek hurts. You can't swab it.
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 1 It's inside where that one vein is. Right.
My vein hurts. You can't pluck my hair.

Speaker 2 Let's just keep going with DNA possibilities.

Speaker 1 Well, but also that to me, and I could be wrong about this, but by memory, psychopaths also never admit. That's the whole thing is that that idea is, oh, I'm not going to admit it.

Speaker 1 I'm going to continue to quote unquote trick you.

Speaker 2 Well, he's probably also like, no, you can't take my DNA because you'll plant it. You know what I mean? Like, he just will deny, deny, deny.
Yeah. Right.
Yep.

Speaker 2 He's had the opportunity to apply for parole, but each time has refused to answer why he won't give his DNA. And so far he's been denied each time.

Speaker 2 And he'll be eligible again in 2027 when he is 77 years old. So let's stop talking about him.
Okay.

Speaker 2 So Kara's father, Sam, lobbied to get the desolate area where his beloved daughter's body had been so callously discarded.

Speaker 2 He lobbied to have that area dedicated as the Kara Knott Memorial Oak Garden, which it was, and then he changed it to the San Diego Crime Victims Memorial Garden.

Speaker 2 This is fucking rough.

Speaker 2 His aim, according to findagrave.com, was to, quote, turn the bleak wasteland where Kara died into a flourishing nature preserve dedicated to Kara and fellow crime victims.

Speaker 2 He did succeed as the small garden has flourished into, according to hidden sandiego.com, quote, an oasis where the lives of dozens of victims of crime and violent death are commemorated, end quote.

Speaker 2 But tragically, in 2000, at the age of 63,

Speaker 2 Sam, Kara's father, suffers a fatal heart attack while he is at the memorial site attending a memorial for Kara.

Speaker 2 And it's not far from where she was killed 14 years earlier.

Speaker 1 So he dies there too.

Speaker 2 A heart attack, which is just a broken broken heart. Yeah.
Right. Right.

Speaker 2 Kara's family, including her mother Joyce and three siblings, continue to fight for victims' rights, including working with law enforcement to create better ways of keeping track of their officers while on duty.

Speaker 1 Very good idea.

Speaker 2 Huge. And also to keep her killer behind bars.

Speaker 2 They also donate the acorns from the native oaks that Sam had planted and dedicated to Kara at the flourishing memorial site to nonprofit groups to plant and grow their own memorial trees.

Speaker 2 So her trees are growing all over the country.

Speaker 2 I know. That's beautiful.
Yeah. And it's like this like beautiful, serene place where you can go as a memorial garden.
Yeah. Let's turn it into that.

Speaker 2 Sam is buried next to Kara at the Singing Hills Memorial Park in El Cajon, California. Her headstone reads, quote, you are our morning and evening star.

Speaker 2 Now you are Stardust and will live forever, end quote. And that is the story of the murder of Kara Knott.
Wow.

Speaker 1 Great job.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 1 That is a tough one.

Speaker 2 Like, I hadn't covered this, even though it's been in my head for so long because it just seems so small and simple and sad and awful.

Speaker 2 But I feel like this stuff at the end with her family and father just felt right to share. Yeah.
You know?

Speaker 1 No, I think you're so right. And I do think that it's sad.
There's 40 years of forensic files. We could be talking about a million cases.
That is, I think, why people talk through true crime.

Speaker 1 It's like there's the things that are the exact same, then there's the things of like listening and watching for how they catch people, listening and watching for what you should keep your eye out for.

Speaker 2 How many women have not pulled over on the side of the freeway or in a desolate spot or have known to get off the freeway, to go in a public place when getting pulled over or stayed in their car with their doors locked when they needed help because they watched this episode and because of Kara's story?

Speaker 2 I bet there are people who are alive today because they knew and know Cara's story and will forever. Yep.
You know?

Speaker 1 Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 This is the time of year when you want to feel warm and cozy in your home.

Speaker 1 And with Simply Safe, you can feel protected too.

Speaker 2 Unlike other systems that make you do the monitoring, Simply Safe's team handles it for you, even if you miss the alert.

Speaker 1 Simply Safe's monitoring agents can step in right away to stop a break-in before it even starts.

Speaker 2 There are no long-term contracts or hidden fees, and SimplySafe was named best home security system by U.S. News and and World Report for five years running.

Speaker 1 There's a 60-day money-back guarantee so you can try it and see the difference for yourself.

Speaker 2 I cannot tell you how much the cameras around my house have meant to me on our tour because we've been away so much and just to be able to like look in real quick make sure everything's okay you know when the gardener comes make sure they shut the door make sure everything just looks right in our neighborhood it's just kind of this peace of mind when you're far from home.

Speaker 1 What I like is that there's also a team standing by so if you see anything when you're checking that video, there are people there to take care of it.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 1 Don't miss out on Simply Safe's biggest sale of the year, 60% off.

Speaker 2 Right now, our listeners can save 60% off on a SimplySafe home security system at simplysafe.com slash fave.

Speaker 1 That's simply safe.com slash F-A-V.

Speaker 2 There's no safe like SimplySafe. Goodbye.
You know what's scary? Realizing you forgot your greens again. Groons makes it easy, no powders and no pills.

Speaker 2 Just eight daily delicious gummies packed with over 20 vitamins, minerals, and 60 whole food ingredients. They're vegan, gluten-free, and taste like fruit snacks.

Speaker 2 And they even make groons kids for the little ones in your life who think spinach is a personal attack. You've got nutrition gaps and groons fills them.

Speaker 2 This is the simplest health upgrade you'll ever make. No prep, no blender, no excuses.
Whether you're already into wellness or still figuring it out, Groons fits right into your routine.

Speaker 2 This is a habit that tastes so good, you'll actually want to keep it. Right now, you can get up to 45% off your first order with code MFM.
That's 45% off using code MFM.

Speaker 2 So skip skip the mess, skip the stress, just chew and go. Groons, get your daily greens the easiest way possible.
Goodbye.

Speaker 1 This show is sponsored by MIDI Health.

Speaker 2 If you've ever left a doctor's office feeling unheard, unseen, or somehow at fault, you're not alone. And you deserve better.

Speaker 1 That's where MIDI Health comes in.

Speaker 2 MIDI is a women's telehealth clinic built specifically for midlife care.

Speaker 1 For too long, women's serious midlife health issues have been trivialized, ignored, and met with a just deal with it attitude.

Speaker 2 Many of us have been made to feel ashamed or forgotten. In fact, even today, 75% of women seeking care for menopause and perimenopause issues are left entirely untreated.

Speaker 1 It's time for a change. It's time for MIDI.

Speaker 2 MIDI is not just a health care provider. It's a women's telehealth clinic founded and supported by world-class leaders in women's health.

Speaker 1 At MIDI, real clinicians listen to your symptoms and offer personalized, data-driven care, not one-size-fits-all advice.

Speaker 2 MIDI is backed by world-class experts in women's health and focuses on everything from hormone therapy to weight management and lifestyle coaching.

Speaker 2 Ready to feel your best and write your second act script?

Speaker 1 Visit joinmittie.com today to book your personalized insurance-covered virtual visit.

Speaker 2 That's joinmitty.com.

Speaker 1 MIDI, the care women deserve.

Speaker 2 Goodbye.

Speaker 1 Well, great job. That was really good.
Thank you. And really sad.
And then also really like, I do think it is interesting, like you naming old forensic files. And it's like, yep, I know that one.

Speaker 1 I have these stories in my head.

Speaker 2 They don't go anywhere, which is why we talk about them. I know.

Speaker 1 It's interesting. It's sad.
I'm going to to turn it around. Great.
I've got a 180.

Speaker 2 I would love a 180. Okay, good.

Speaker 1 Because Women's History Month just ended this week.

Speaker 1 And yet it feels to me like we should continue remembering women. Shouldn't we? In case we're wiped off the face of the planet here in America.
You know.

Speaker 2 In case we're handmaids-tailed.

Speaker 1 There's so much going on in the world. And I think.

Speaker 1 Talking about the women whose shoulders we all stand on is a good idea. Love it.
No matter what the story is. Definitely.

Speaker 1 And I like the idea that, you know, sometimes there's people who listen to our podcast and they do have, you know, their young daughters in the backseat. Here's a story you can let them listen to.

Speaker 1 We'll try not to say the F word very much.

Speaker 2 I'm going to try. Let's see if I can get through an entire story without cursing.

Speaker 2 Or without saying fuck.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 You just said it.

Speaker 1 So I'm going to tell you the story today of an American icon who, by boldly chasing her dreams, made an indelible imprint on our culture.

Speaker 1 But despite her extraordinary life, she's most famous for the mysterious circumstances surrounding her death. Oh.
arguably one of recent history's greatest unsolved mysteries.

Speaker 1 For nearly a century, searchers have tried to force a satisfying conclusion to her story, and they've always come up short.

Speaker 1 But because all the focus has been on how she died, the way she lived, including her many accomplishments and her advocacy, is often forgotten.

Speaker 1 So today, I'm going to tell you the story of pioneering aviator Amelia Earhart.

Speaker 2 Yes. Right?

Speaker 2 Oh my God. I've been like following the stories.
I just always click on the stories of they think they found this. They think they found that.
Right. Here's the next like, I cannot not click on those.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because it's fascinating. It's like they have to find something some someday that's conclusive.

Speaker 2 It's a legit mystery. Okay.
Tell me everything. Okay.

Speaker 1 So the sources for this story today are writer Doris L. Rich's book, A Biography, Amelia Earhart, which is a primary.

Speaker 1 There's also a PBS documentary series that's American Experience that's all about her.

Speaker 2 I fucking love American Experience.

Speaker 1 It's one of the best shows.

Speaker 1 If you're just looking for something, if like if you've an empty day and you're trying to feel enriched while still being completely entertained, American Experience will do the job for you.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't care if you don't give a shit about the fucking Dust Bowl. You'll be fascinated by the Dust Bowl while you do your nails.

Speaker 1 And I have to say, Home Gym,

Speaker 1 I was raised by my father forcing me to watch PBS material and so furious where he'd he'd be like, right after Happy Days would end, he'd be like, turn it over, let's see what's on PBS.

Speaker 1 And then we'd have to watch an opera. We'd have to watch Carl Sagan.

Speaker 2 And is it a coincidence that you're here owning your own fucking business today?

Speaker 1 Probably not. Probably not.
I think PBS enriched my life. Did my father ever give them a dime in donations? Not only not once, and I'm sure he'll do this.

Speaker 2 He sued them for money?

Speaker 2 Oh, no. He would have sued PBS

Speaker 2 for damages.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. But my mom would always like walk through and he'd be watching something and really enjoying it.
You know, like a documentary on the auto map or whatever.

Speaker 2 Had to watch that the last time I went home.

Speaker 1 Amazing. But my mom would always go, Jim, you have to give them money.
And he would go, bullshit, they're not getting a dime out of me. And that was like his proud stance.

Speaker 1 And he refused to give them money.

Speaker 2 PBS.

Speaker 1 It's the ultimate, like,

Speaker 1 he's going to finally rip somebody else. Right.

Speaker 2 You're fighting the wrong fight, bro.

Speaker 1 Meanwhile, he has absolutely given them money. And it was just a bit, basically, he's doing to piss my mom off.

Speaker 2 Phew. Right? Okay.

Speaker 1 He's not really a douchebag.

Speaker 1 Because truly, with the Kilgara family, he's gotten their absolute fill from

Speaker 2 free people. The top bags you guys have from them.
That's how you know. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 Oh, so anyway, there's also a two-part National Geographic podcast called Overheard. Did you know there was a National Geographic podcast?

Speaker 2 No, I love it.

Speaker 1 Oh, I also, sorry, this should go up into the top, but since we didn't do it, I'll just say it now.

Speaker 1 On TikTok this morning, I learned that the Southern Poverty Law Center has just launched their own podcast just at the beginning of this month.

Speaker 1 And it just covers all the stories, all of the things that they're like, basically them fighting for Americans in every way, the fact that they've been doing it for 100 years, all these things.

Speaker 2 I'm not giving them a fucking dime. No, get it.
Should we give them $10,000? Let's do it. Let's do it.
That's a great idea. I'll love it.

Speaker 1 We'll give them money on our side. Listener, you go listen to the Southern Poverty Law Center's podcast.
Get them some numbers. Share it with friends.
Get that thing going because it sounded great.

Speaker 1 The little like clip and what I heard, I was like so excited that they're starting that. Amazing.

Speaker 2 Great. That feels good.
Now let's start your story. Goodbye.

Speaker 2 Now to the story.

Speaker 1 Okay. Here's my writing when I go in and edit Marin's writing.
The story of Amelia Earhart's story begins in like July of 1897. Okay.

Speaker 1 She was born in the northeast corner of Kansas in a town called Acheson.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 It looks like it's, I would guess, two hours north of Kansas City. Okay.
Way up there in the corner, there's the AmeliaEarhart.org website.

Speaker 1 And they have a museum there that I think is built in her house.

Speaker 2 Oh, wow.

Speaker 1 But they have the best tote bags that I'm absolutely going to get.

Speaker 2 That's weird that just brought up tote bags. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 Cause I was just looking on the website and it's just a painting of the house and that's the tote bag. Okay.

Speaker 2 We all need those. Martarinos? Let's.

Speaker 1 Yeah, let's buy all the merch at the Amelia Earhart.

Speaker 2 You can see how you can spot a martarino in the wild at like the farmer's market? Is if she's a fucking oh, I said the F word. She's a random

Speaker 2 Amelia Earhart.

Speaker 1 I'm still on page one.

Speaker 2 I saw it. Stop it.
I've had too much fucking rosé. Let's go.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Let's really focus on what we're supposed to be doing.

Speaker 1 Okay, so. She's born in Atchison in July of 1897.
Her father, Edwin, is a lawyer from humble beginnings. Her mom, Amy, comes from a very prominent local family.

Speaker 1 And a fun fact, actually, like a badass fact, Amy Earhart was the first woman to hike to the top of Pike's Peak in Colorado.

Speaker 2 Cool.

Speaker 1 So she's from Adventuring DNA. Makes sense.
So

Speaker 1 things aren't always smooth sailing for the Earhart family. Edwin has good and bad years financially.
He takes job opportunities wherever they come.

Speaker 1 We later learned that it's because he's an alcoholic. And that's the way my mom grew up where it's like he does good for a little while.

Speaker 1 He's a lawyer and then he blows it and then has to and then goes off the wagon and then has to dry out again I can't say that that's exactly what happened in this family but I'm recognizing it from what my mom told me about when you have like the long-term alcoholic that then gets better for a long time and then goes back it's awful so they move around a ton and then when Amelia isn't moving around with her parents and they're just trying to go get him another job she stays for long stretches at her grandparents home so amelia does have a younger sister named muriel they're just about two years apart, so they're very, very close.

Speaker 1 And they're not your typical turn-of-the-century girls because, like, of course, at the time, girls had to wear long skirts.

Speaker 1 But Amelia and Muriel spend their weekends in bloomers because it's easier to play in them. Love it.
And these girls love playing.

Speaker 1 Amelia is the daring ringleader, and she can often be found with her little sister climbing over fences, shooting rifles, collecting bugs. Doris L.

Speaker 1 Rich, Amelia Earhart's biographer, writes about an incident when Amelia is seven years old and Muriel is four and they are going sledding. So Amelia is about to head down a big snowy hill.

Speaker 1 So she does something most little girls would be conditioned not to do. Instead of sitting up on the sled and holding like the string like that, she lays down on her stomach.

Speaker 1 She pushes off.

Speaker 2 Face first. You got to go face first.
Face first. Just do it.

Speaker 1 So she pushes off. She starts racing down the hill, flying down, and then she sees here comes a horse-drawn carriage that's coming directly down her path, across her path, I should say.

Speaker 1 She starts yelling out to the driver because she can't stop. So she's yelling, but he can't hear her.
He can't see her.

Speaker 1 So up on the top of the hill, Mural is watching her sister as she is about to crash in. So Amelia at the same time is like, I'm about to die.

Speaker 1 So instead of panicking, what she does is she puts her head down as low as she can.

Speaker 1 And somehow the timing works out perfectly.

Speaker 1 And she just goes right under the wagon like christmas vacation where they go under the fucking semi-truck yes exactly like that right or like when i was about six years old and i was riding my bike in front of my parents and their friends and i went up in the o'hera's big old gravel driveway that was like a quarter of a mile long and i was coming back down racing back down and my parents can hear a car that's going 80 miles an hour oh my gosh and they watch as i just go directly in front of the car like the car's going so fast it didn't have time to put on the brakes.

Speaker 1 So I just went

Speaker 1 like that. And as I came into our driveway, my dad just picked me up off my bike and slapped me on the ass.
And I ran into the house. They never spanked us.

Speaker 1 And he, like, basically, they all thought they were going to watch me die.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Amelia Earhart stuff.

Speaker 2 Pet cemetery shit. Right.
Oh, my God. For real.

Speaker 1 Okay, so.

Speaker 1 Basically, she goes under, she comes out unscathed. And when she finally comes to a stop, Amelia jumps up and smiles and waves at her sister.

Speaker 1 And years later, she looks back on this moment and she'll say, quote, that condemned tomboy method saved my life.

Speaker 1 Had I been sitting up, either my head or the horse's ribs would have suffered in contact, probably the horse's ribs.

Speaker 1 So by Amelia's teenage years, she's attended so many different schools that she basically doesn't have any friends at all.

Speaker 1 In one of her yearbooks, this makes me so sad, there's a photo of her and the caption reads, quote, AE, the girl in brown who walks alone.

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 1 Just like, because you have this fuck up dad. Right.
You're going to have to leave anyway, so you might as well not get to know people.

Speaker 1 At home, Amelia's father has developed a serious drinking problem. I spoiled that one, but he struggles to hold down any job.

Speaker 1 PBS reports, quote, Amelia adored her father, but he let her down so often she learned early on to be self-reliant.

Speaker 2 Yikes.

Speaker 1 So she starts keeping a scrapbook with cutouts of newspaper and magazine articles about women with successful careers that are in traditionally male-only fields.

Speaker 1 It's like she's proving to herself that she can find success without relying on a man and manifesting that future for herself, essentially.

Speaker 1 When she graduates high school, it's the thick of World War I. So she drops out of finishing school.
They sent her to finishing school.

Speaker 2 Finish what, dude?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Finish walking around with a book on your head.
Finish this.

Speaker 1 So she leaves to go tend to wounded soldiers in Canada, which is so badass. She's like,

Speaker 1 thanks for the manners lessons.

Speaker 1 I've got to actually go do something. How about

Speaker 2 yourself?

Speaker 1 Get fuck yourself. I'm going to work with the Red Cross.

Speaker 1 During this time, she briefly considers a career in medicine.

Speaker 1 And then one day, she goes to a flying exhibition in Toronto, and she watches a stunned pilot do their tricks in a colorful plane, and she's captivated.

Speaker 1 She'll later say, quote, I did not understand at the time, but I believe that little red airplane said something to me as it swished by.

Speaker 1 It's just such a cool, I never thought about this, and I'm sure that my sister has like books that she's read aloud to her class. That's like Amelia Earhart.

Speaker 1 I'm sure she knows all the details, but I've never like really thought about that fact of like when women are born early and they go through lives with like, say, an adventurer spirit in a time where they're like, you better put that skirt on and go to finishing school.

Speaker 1 It's almost luckier that she had to move around a bunch and had like an irregular family.

Speaker 2 Like her dad wasn't paying attention and enforcing rules, so she could kind of get away with a lot more.

Speaker 1 And it was kind of like, yeah, fuck it, because what am I going to do? Go to finishing school, find a man, and then have this happen to me? Right. Like, I'm going to go do my thing.

Speaker 2 Also, like, can we just props to the baby sister, the younger sister, who's always like, she doesn't get enough credit. Like, the older sister always gets credited.
Like, she showed her how to do it.

Speaker 2 But, like, if you didn't have someone to show how to do it, I'm clearly giving us

Speaker 2 props. It's about us.
It's us. It's about us.
But, like, if you didn't have someone to show off to,

Speaker 2 then what would you have done? You would have never had that adventure.

Speaker 1 Nothing. If you didn't have a baby crying and saying, I need to go to the bathroom all the time, there would be no, nothing to fight against.

Speaker 2 So you're welcome. You're welcome, Laura.
And Leah. And Lee.

Speaker 1 So by 1920, Amelia is 23 years old. She's living back with her parents again.
They're now in Southern California. So they really have moved all over the place.

Speaker 1 One day, her dad takes her to an event at a Long Beach airfield. Once again, Amelia is transfixed by by the stunt pilot.
So this was like a big thing that was happening at the time.

Speaker 1 She sees they're offering plane rides for the low price of $5 each.

Speaker 2 That's a lot of money.

Speaker 1 Worth about today. What year? 2020.
2020? Sorry, 20. Plain old 20.
1920? 1920 is what I should have said.

Speaker 2 Yep.

Speaker 2 And it's $5.19. Oh, that's a lot of money.
I'm going to go 60.

Speaker 1 80.

Speaker 2 Very close.

Speaker 1 But 80 bucks.

Speaker 2 That's a fuck ton of money. She somehow.
Oh, God, I did it again. again.
I'm so bad.

Speaker 1 It's just, it's a fudge, it's a fudge worth of money.

Speaker 1 So she somehow collects up and gets that money. A couple days later, she goes back to the airfield and she takes a ride for the first time in a plane.
And she will later say,

Speaker 1 As soon as we left the ground, I knew I had to fly. A little quote within the quote says, I think I'd like to fly.
I told my family casually that evening, knowing full well I'd die if I didn't.

Speaker 2 Oh, she's like, her dream. That's her passion.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's beautiful. So a year later, Amelia meets with a young female pilot named Netta Snook, the best name of all time.

Speaker 2 So good.

Speaker 1 Netta is an aviation pioneer in her own right, and she agrees to teach Amelia how to fly. She's charging a dollar a minute, which would be...
basically $16 a minute in today's money.

Speaker 1 So it would be like paying $960 for an hour's flying list.

Speaker 1 So it's very expensive.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Snookie's after it.

Speaker 1 Snookie's like, hey, then go find another woman to teach you how to fly a plane.

Speaker 2 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 So to pay for her lessons, Amelia takes on a bunch of odd jobs, including hauling gravel for a local trucking company and working as a stenographer. Okay.
She's like, anything I can do. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Within six months, she manages to buy her own small, bright yellow biplane that she names Canary.

Speaker 2 That is so wild. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 She's in it.

Speaker 2 I mean, I bought a Vespa when I was young because I was like, I got to stop writing on the back of douchebags, Vespas, and get your own. I need my own, or I'm going to keep dating assholes.

Speaker 2 So I got my own.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And then did you go see Quadrophinia at the Midnight Show? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, I was obsessed. Yeah.

Speaker 1 When the Vespa kids would come in for Quadrophenia, that was my very favorite. I'm like, I can't get these outfits together, but I would pick you of all the.

Speaker 2 So hot.

Speaker 1 I'm not picking Rocky Horror and I'm not picking heavy metal.

Speaker 2 I'm picking Quadrophenia. Hell yeah, you are.
Those acid wash jeans.

Speaker 1 So she gets her pilot's license in late 1921, and she begins flying in derbies and setting all kinds of records.

Speaker 2 How old is she?

Speaker 1 So she's 23 and 20. So she's 24.

Speaker 2 Okay, 24.

Speaker 1 I like the idea that they just start air derbies where it's like, can you fly a plane? Then come and do a race.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Hilarious.
It's so good.

Speaker 1 So she sets all kinds of records, like becoming the first woman to fly at an altitude of 14,000 feet.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 But actually, she wasn't trying to break that record. She just wanted to see how high the canary could go.

Speaker 1 Later, Later, she'll write quite modestly, quote, although my figure of 14,000 feet was not extraordinary, the performance of my engine was interesting.

Speaker 1 I had gone up much farther than some of the higher-powered planes, which should have been more efficient. So her and the Canary are like getting in there and they've got a vibe.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 In 1924, Amelia's life changes again. As her father continues to struggle with alcoholism, her parents get divorced.
Now she's 28.

Speaker 1 She and her mom moved from California to Massachusetts to move in with Muriel, who's studying to be a teacher there in Boston. So Amelia gets a job there as a social worker.

Speaker 1 She gets paid $60 a month, which is roughly how much in today's money?

Speaker 2 $690.

Speaker 1 $1,000 a month.

Speaker 2 Wow. Okay.

Speaker 1 So she's now supporting herself and her mother on this modest income. So basically, her expensive hobby of flying planes has to be paused.

Speaker 1 But she does find a local flying community and she's a vocal part of it. And local newspapers start writing about her fierce advocacy for women in aviation.

Speaker 2 Amazing.

Speaker 1 So even though she can't do it, she's still like, yeah, but we should get to do it. Yeah.
The good news is she loves her job as a social worker.

Speaker 1 She works with immigrant families and children, mostly from China and Syria.

Speaker 1 And she really feels like she's found her calling. Author Susan Butler tells National Geographic, quote, if anything, she was obsessed with being a social worker.

Speaker 1 She took it as her role in life to act as an agent for social change for women. Wow.
Yeah. That's amazing.
So I kind of like that, you know,

Speaker 1 she was pivoting, doing what she could when she could, and then also making a life doing other stuff that was also very important.

Speaker 2 Her moral compass was there no matter what she was doing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, she was like, I'm going to do good and make change and fight for women. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Very cool.

Speaker 1 So then in 1928, a man named George P. Putnam reaches out and that changes everything in her life once again.

Speaker 1 Putnam is a wildly successful publisher who is behind one of America's more notable fascists, Charles Lindbergh's smash hit autobiography, We.

Speaker 1 Of course, Lindbergh was a huge aviating star, very prominent. You covered his baby's kidnapping.

Speaker 2 I was going to say you covered that, but okay.

Speaker 1 With you in episode 119, Fingers Everywhere. Of course, you remember that episode.
So Putnam is now on the hunt for his next aviation superstar.

Speaker 1 He's been given a short list of female pilots, hoping one of them will have that elusive and lucrative it factor. So he sets up a meeting with now 31-year-old Amelia.

Speaker 1 And when he does, she walks in and he can't believe it. She looks a lot like Charles Lindbergh.
So he's immediately convinced that she's the one.

Speaker 1 So George pitches Amelia the opportunity of a lifetime. He wants her to take a transatlantic flight, not as the pilot, but as a passenger, and like it's all for publicity.

Speaker 1 But still, the trip would make her the first woman to fly across the Atlantic Ocean.

Speaker 2 Can you imagine?

Speaker 1 I get so nervous when we fly to like on tour to Europe and stuff because you're just like, or to Hawaii, when you're just like, so we're just going to be like on open ocean for like four or five hours.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but imagine being the first woman who gets to do that. And you're going to know that and it's never going to be changed.
Because you're the first woman to do it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know? And she's kind of like, look, I survived that sled. I'll be fine.

Speaker 2 I'm sure that kind of a part of it, right?

Speaker 1 She's like, get me out there. It'll be good if I do it.
Okay, so she's all in, of course. She thinks that Marin wrote, it sounds like a blast.

Speaker 1 But of course, she also knows there's risks. Writer Anthony Brandt notes, quote, it was still a very dangerous thing to fly the Atlantic Ocean.

Speaker 1 In the year after Charles Lindbergh flew the Atlantic, which was 1927, 18 planes made the attempt. Only three succeeded.

Speaker 2 Holy shit.

Speaker 1 Airplanes were a mere quarter of a century old. The North Atlantic is famously stormy.
Fog banks are common. Weather reports at the time were primitive, and navigation was often haphazard.

Speaker 1 The plane she flew in was made mostly of sheet metal. It rattled and roared like an old steam engine.
Oh my God, it was so loud.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 The cabin door had to be tied shut with a small rope.

Speaker 2 Oh my God, and the fucking farting.

Speaker 2 I was going to say meal service, but yeah.

Speaker 1 Because it's a tri-motor seaplane.

Speaker 2 It's a little guy

Speaker 1 with three people in it. Okay, so all that in mind, on June 17th, 1928, Amelia takes off in the seaplane, piloted by a man named Wilmer Stultz and co-piloted by a man named Lewis Gordon.

Speaker 1 But after 20 hours and 40 minutes of flight time, when they finally land in Wales, it's Amelia who steps off the plane and into instant celebrity.

Speaker 2 Hey, girl.

Speaker 1 Thousands of people are there waiting to catch a glimpse of the daring aviatrix is what they call her. Yes.
Amelia Earhart.

Speaker 2 Do you think she slept a moment of that 20 hours and 40 minutes?

Speaker 1 Probably. Well, no, probably not because she was probably thrilled out of her mind, scared shitless.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And it was super loud and cold and windy. And there was no bar cart.

Speaker 1 She just has a little flask that she's sipping out of from a straw. So newspapers run countless glowing features and newsreels declaring her the quote Lady Lindberg.

Speaker 1 It's the exact type of publicity George has worked so hard for because now he wants Amelia to write a memoir that he can then turn into the bestseller. So, it's this is my experience doing it.
Got it.

Speaker 1 George urges her to quit her job back in Boston, move into his New York home, and crank out this book. That's exactly how Lindbergh did it.
So, he wants her to do it the same way.

Speaker 1 Amelia knows that if she does that, she can parlay all the attention into some real money, which then she can use to support her family and pay for her expensive flying lessons.

Speaker 2 She's the original aviator influencer. Yes.
Hashtag.

Speaker 1 For sure. And also you see these, let me show you some of these early pictures.
She's a gorgeous young woman. She has freckles in her bob hair or whatever, but she's like, she's the cutest.

Speaker 1 She truly has that face card that they're all looking for.

Speaker 1 And on top of all that, it's going to give her a platform to share the message she's carried within her since childhood, which is that women can do anything men can do. Awesome.
In the 20s.

Speaker 1 When no one was trying to say shit, they were like, I'm going to smoke a cigarette.

Speaker 2 Jazz cigarette. Jazz.

Speaker 1 So Amelia upends her entire life in Boston and starts writing a book that will eventually be titled, quote, 20 Hours, 40 Minutes. In it, there's a section titled Women in Aviation.

Speaker 1 And in that, Amelia writes, quote, while this chapter is called Women in Aviation, just as appropriate a title might have been Women Outside of Aviation.

Speaker 1 There should be no line between men and women so far as piloting is concerned.

Speaker 2 Got it, like a female pilot. Nope, just a pilot.
Just a pilot. Yeah.
Yep.

Speaker 1 Amelia's sister Muriel will later say that Amelia was embarrassed that her claim to fame was being a passenger on that transatlantic flight, which seems backed up by Amelia's own words.

Speaker 1 She was quoted as saying, the boys did all the flying. Yeah.
That is embarrassing. Yeah.

Speaker 2 For her, who is a pilot? Yeah. Get your own Vespa.

Speaker 1 She also describes herself on that flight as, quote, just baggage like a sack of potatoes.

Speaker 2 Oh, God, that had a sting.

Speaker 1 Well, I think it's, she's the kind of person that's like, if you're going to applaud for me this much, just wait until you see me fly.

Speaker 2 Right. This is nothing.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 She also teases her dream of the future by saying, quote, maybe someday I'll try it alone.

Speaker 1 So now it's 1932. Amelia's in her mid-30s and America's in the throes of the Great Depression.
But Amelia has done extremely well for herself over the past few years.

Speaker 1 She's gotten paid endorsements from brands like Lucky Strike, and she's become the aviation editor of Cosmopolitan Magazine.

Speaker 2 That's made up. Yeah, that is.
But I love it.

Speaker 1 But that's how much of a trend flying was at the time, which is great.

Speaker 2 You got to get those sponsorships, man. That's right.
Me and podcasting understand.

Speaker 1 You're truly right about her being the original plane influencer.

Speaker 1 So at that point, she'd made enough money to buy herself a brand new plane, which is the now iconic Fire Engine Red Lockheed Vega.

Speaker 1 Amelia is also still devoted to empowering women. She is the founding member and the first president of a group called the 99s, which is the first ever organization for women in aviation.

Speaker 1 The 99 refers to the number of the group's charter members.

Speaker 2 Amazing. So good.
Yeah. What if it was like 23? The 23s.
It doesn't sound the same. The 99s is fucking almost 100.

Speaker 1 On a more personal level, Amelia's father, Edwin, has passed away of cancer, and George Putnam, her publisher, has divorced his wife. He professes his love for her

Speaker 1 and proposes.

Speaker 2 Oh, I wish I could have seen that.

Speaker 1 She says no.

Speaker 1 He asks again, and he ends up proposing to her six different times.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 2 Love him, love her. Love it.

Speaker 1 Amelia has been skeptical of marriage all her life for very good reason.

Speaker 1 Yeah. But she genuinely cares for George.
So she eventually accepts, but she has her conditions. She tells him she's going to keep her own name, which at that time was unheard of.

Speaker 2 I'm just, that's incredible.

Speaker 2 Someone who kept her own name, I want to thank her for fucking blazing the way.

Speaker 1 She blazed it. And then on her wedding day, she won't wear a traditional bridal gown.

Speaker 1 She wears a brown suit.

Speaker 2 What?

Speaker 1 Just like Fisk.

Speaker 2 She's like, Let me just go to work today.

Speaker 1 She's like, here's the thing. I'm not wearing your stupid fucking dress.

Speaker 1 And she also, the morning of their wedding, writes him a letter, which I really love, that says, quote, I may have to keep some place where I can go to be by myself now and then.

Speaker 1 I cannot guarantee to endure at all times the confinement of even an attractive cage.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. Like, he loved that about her, you know? It's like that's like why he loved her.
It's like, that's so incredible.

Speaker 1 I think so. This is my opinion.

Speaker 1 When you are raised feral, it's hard to even want to have anything traditional, even when the pressure to do it is so oppressive because it's like, it was literally, she had the kind of household where it's like, go outside and play for 18 hours because everything is so fucked in here.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And so then it's like, yeah, I don't want to go back.

Speaker 2 I tie myself back to this.

Speaker 1 That structure that I can't trust. If I couldn't trust my own father, how can I trust you?

Speaker 2 I completely identify with that.

Speaker 1 And George Putnam's like, I get it. I'll just keep asking you.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But also a brown suit on your wedding day is just like badass to a degree where she's like, that isn't just like, I'm not going to be traditional. She's like, fuck you, finishing school professor.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Apologies to anyone who thought they were actually going to play this for their children in the backseat of the car.
Like it was never going to happen.

Speaker 1 We were lying to you, but more importantly, we were lying directly to your children.

Speaker 2 And you were lying to yourself. We fucking thought.

Speaker 1 We screamed, fuck you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So around the same year she gets married, which is 1932, she publishes her second book. That one's called The Fun of It.
Cute.

Speaker 2 I love that one. Kiki.

Speaker 1 She also announces with that that she's going to fly across the Atlantic again, but this time as a pilot and this time by herself.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 1 At the time, no one, no man or woman, aside from Charles Lindbergh back in 1927, had ever completed a solo non-stop transatlantic flight, although 10 pilots had died trying.

Speaker 2 No. Yeah.
Don't like those odds.

Speaker 1 So she's like,

Speaker 2 10 male pilots.

Speaker 1 Step away. Yes, exactly.
So immediately, Amelia's inner circle, including her husband, George Putnam, start wondering if she's experienced enough to pull off this stunt.

Speaker 1 Her own mechanic gives her, quote, a one in 100 chance of surviving.

Speaker 2 Cool, dude. Way to fucking be supportive.

Speaker 1 It reminds me of when the fucking Eagles were like, we don't want to tour with Linda Ronstadt. We're going to start our own band.

Speaker 2 Like, fuck you. Go ahead.
See how it fucking goes.

Speaker 1 Good luck. She's selling out fucking stadiums.
Anyway,

Speaker 1 God, that documentary. I loved it so much, but it filled me with a fury that will never go away.

Speaker 2 That was the point.

Speaker 1 Yeah, she wasn't good enough. You need it.

Speaker 2 You need that theory. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So the idea of making a transatlantic flight alone makes Amelia Earhart feel alive.

Speaker 2 Oh, I was going to be like, take a beta blocker.

Speaker 1 She's like, I can't. This day-to-day bullshit isn't good enough.
I need to get up and over there.

Speaker 2 What did she do to hype herself up before?

Speaker 2 Because before I came in here to record, I put on Yes And by Ariana Grande, like just to record a podcast that I've done for fucking nine years, and I still need that. Like, I did a little show to

Speaker 2 secrets being revealed. Yeah.
Okay, go.

Speaker 1 Well, here's, I can tell you, she writes a poem that says, quote, courage is the price that life extracts for granting peace.

Speaker 2 Think about it. I can't.
You gotta pay. You must.

Speaker 1 So on a warm May morning, I added in warm, I don't know why. On a May morning in 1932, Amelia takes off from Canada's East Coast in her Lockheed Vega.

Speaker 1 From the start, it's an exhausting, difficult journey. Author Doris L.
Rich writes, quote, she was four hours out when she ran into a storm. She would go high and the plane would ice.

Speaker 1 Then she'd go down until she could see the waves to get the ice off.

Speaker 2 How fucking scary. Terrifying.

Speaker 1 She had no radio contact with anyone.

Speaker 1 The manifold on her engine broke and the flames from the backfire from it were coming out.

Speaker 1 There was a gas gauge over her head that began to leak and the gasoline was dripping down over her forehead and into one eye.

Speaker 2 End quote. Just crashed the whole thing into the sea.
Yeah, that's what I would do.

Speaker 1 I mean, well, after 15 grueling hours of flight time, Amelia Earhart lands her plane safely in Northern Ireland.

Speaker 2 Amazing.

Speaker 1 And this solo flight launches her to all new levels of worldwide stardom. She's mobbed by fans in London and Paris.
And when she comes back to the United States, her success is felt.

Speaker 1 as a much-needed moment of national joy because it's still the Great Depression.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 She even gets her own ticker tape parade in New York City. Influencer.
Have you ever seen ticker tape parade footage?

Speaker 2 It looks so messy. It looks so awesome.

Speaker 1 Like if you're down there and everyone's just throwing shit out the window and like, it's just such a true moment of glory. Yeah.
Everybody got to focus on that.

Speaker 2 Then the guy who has to clean it up. Yeah, true.
Why do I think that way? Go on.

Speaker 1 Some people like cleaning.

Speaker 2 Okay, so

Speaker 1 a few months later, she then becomes the first woman to fly across North America and back. Amelia is now a global icon through and through.

Speaker 1 I also wonder how much of that is like, I'm proving I'm not a passenger over and over again.

Speaker 2 For sure. That's like the best way to get yourself to do something for me.
It's like, oh, you don't think I can't do that? Yeah. Do you think I'm a passenger?

Speaker 1 Or to myself, of like, oh, you're really ashamed because you had that one comedy set that was terrible that you're remembering from seven years ago.

Speaker 2 Then I'm going to go out there. Be the best.

Speaker 1 I think shame works.

Speaker 2 Shame is a great motivator.

Speaker 1 But being a career aviator, even when you're a a famous one, takes a ton of money. So Amelia hits the lecture circuit.
She goes on tour making exhausting back-to-back town-by-town appearances.

Speaker 1 Tell me about it.

Speaker 2 TED Talks.

Speaker 2 OG TED Talks.

Speaker 1 She's got like the head mic, but it's not connected to anything.

Speaker 2 There's no 30.

Speaker 1 Like, what's that thing by her mouth? Sometimes she earned $2,400 in a single week in two days money.

Speaker 1 1932,

Speaker 1 how much would $2,400 a week be $76,000

Speaker 2 in the area $55,000 a week insane that's insane she's she started the first podcast yeah

Speaker 1 she's also using her platform to campaign for women's empowerment not only in aviation but she's trying to get the equal rights amendment passed girl like Don't rest.

Speaker 2 I love it.

Speaker 1 She's invited to the White House in 1933.

Speaker 1 She becomes tight with the Roosevelts, brag, brag, brag.

Speaker 2 So fucking cool.

Speaker 1 A not so fun fact about the Equal Rights Amendment, though, advocates have been fighting to ratify the Equal Rights Amendment since the 20s.

Speaker 1 Even though it's already met the required number of state ratifications, for some reason, it still has not been added to the U.S. Constitution.

Speaker 2 Imagine being invited to the White House and wanting to go and being proud to go. Yeah.
Can you, like the Roosevelts? Fuck yeah, I'd go. Imagine.

Speaker 1 It's just such the end of an era. Yeah.
But the, it's an end of an era. And what I'm talking about is democracy.

Speaker 2 Fucking

Speaker 1 Jesus.

Speaker 2 Oh, right. Oh, God.
Okay.

Speaker 1 1933 is a big year for Amelia, also because she breaks her own speed record on a second flight across North America. She's just getting it done.

Speaker 1 By 1935, 38-year-old Amelia has set records for solo flights from like Honolulu to Oakland, California, or LA to Mexico City. That's just a couple of them.

Speaker 2 I've done those. Right?

Speaker 1 And solo, you mean you just weren't talking events?

Speaker 1 She's also campaigning for FDR, and she launches her own fashion line called Amelia Fashions.

Speaker 2 Called Brown Suits.

Speaker 1 Called Brown Suits Only. She explains.

Speaker 2 Ooh, if you could find one of those in the vintage shop, if you're like doing vintage shopping, and then suddenly you see fucking Amelia Earhart Fashions. Buy Amelia.

Speaker 1 Dude. So the theory was that all flight clothing, of course, had been made for men up to that point.
So when you had your nice jodipers or your weird white shirt or whatever, leather jacket.

Speaker 2 Yeah, like horse writings.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So the idea was they were supposed to be, and of course she always preferred pants anyway.

Speaker 1 So I looked up on ameliaearhart.org and they had pictures from a newspaper of the ad of it and it said, sports clothes designed by Amelia Earhart.

Speaker 1 But then every single picture in that ad was models wearing dresses. There was not one pair of pants, which I was like.

Speaker 2 She never got a say in that. She sold her name.

Speaker 1 That's true. As busy as she is, Amelia still gets the itch to make another big flight.
So she writes to her friends saying,

Speaker 1 I have the feeling there's just one more good flight left in my system, and I hope this is it. It is my swan song as far as record flying is concerned, my frosting on the cake.

Speaker 2 Oh my God, rest on your beautiful laurels sometimes, guys.

Speaker 1 Sorry, I can't join adult children of alcoholics, so I'm going to go ahead and keep on flying across the system.

Speaker 2 Take a nice little nap on them laurels. Can't do it.

Speaker 1 So the next year, 1936, Amelia announces her plan to fly around the world. If successful, she'll be the first woman to ever do it, obviously.

Speaker 1 She and George fundraise for a brand new plane that's built specifically for this journey. They pay for it too, but it's so expensive.
It's $80,000. Wow.
So they need to fundraise.

Speaker 1 $80,000 back then is about how much in today's money?

Speaker 2 $350,000.

Speaker 1 $1.8 million.

Speaker 2 Dude, dude i've learned nothing

Speaker 1 your your scale just went like that a little bit i don't know what's happening so she calls this plane her flying laboratory because it's outfitted with all the latest technology but she never learns to use much of it doris l rich writes quote amelia did not like radio communication there's absolutely no doubt about it that's like me and emails it's such it's so bad for business she not only didn't bother to learn it she didn't really find it necessary.

Speaker 1 There's a hint here of the ego that all great explorers and adventurers have. They have a certain faith that they're going to make it.

Speaker 2 And when you spend one point something on a fucking plane, you hope it flies itself just a little bit.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you would hope there's an automated aspect to it.

Speaker 1 Amelia wants to do the trip by herself, but it's eventually decided she will need a team, being that she doesn't like radio communication and all.

Speaker 1 So she hires three men, a technical advisor named Paul Mance, a marine navigator with radio operation experience named Harry Manning, and a former Pan Am navigator named Fred Noonan.

Speaker 1 So on March 17th, 1937, they take off from Oakland, California. They land in Honolulu.
Then on March 20th, they take off for the second leg of this trip, but something goes wrong.

Speaker 1 The plane skids off course at the end of the runway and it crashes. It's a big enough accident that the plane has to be sent in for extensive repairs.

Speaker 1 So this is a deeply stressful moment for Amelia. She's basically gambled everything on this extraordinarily expensive flight during a national financial crisis.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So Doris L.

Speaker 1 Rich writes, quote, after she cracked up the plane in Honolulu, she felt fear for the first time. The immensity of this project suddenly hit her.

Speaker 1 She knew that if she lost that plane or failed in this, she and George were dead broke, both of them.

Speaker 1 End quote. You can tell Doris L.
Rich is writing from like, it's probably 1945 or something.

Speaker 2 Yeah. That's the vibe I get.
This is going to happen.

Speaker 1 They're dead broke, both of them.

Speaker 1 So the crash in Honolulu also rattles Amelia's loved ones. According to BBS, friends urge her to abandon this mission.
They also express concern over her exhausted and anxious mental state.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So it seems like she's kind of pushing it anyway, even though she's scared or she's worried. Totally.

Speaker 1 This includes her husband George, who writes her a letter promising that they'll figure things out should she abandon the flight. Yeah.

Speaker 2 There's time.

Speaker 1 It's okay, but Amelia won't give in.

Speaker 2 Give in and regroup a little bit and then come back stronger than ever.

Speaker 1 I feel like this is that kind of thing. You know, there are people who are like, if you're a serious workaholic, you just can't consider taking a nap during the day.

Speaker 2 That thing of like, rest is for the week. And it's like, actually,

Speaker 2 it's a beautiful thing to give to yourself and it's okay.

Speaker 1 It is okay, but sometimes you just can't because if you rest, that means like your momentum will slow, even if it's just your mental momentum.

Speaker 1 And clearly, she's still on that sled, still going under that horse-drawn carriage.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but then it won't go away. You can still come back after it.
And like, you're going to be more clear-headed, and you're going to be older and smarter.

Speaker 2 And, like, give yourself a fucking break sometimes.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 And that shows why Karen's CEO and I don't have a fucking office at exactly right media.

Speaker 1 It's not good.

Speaker 2 It's not. It is not good.
It's not. And she has two podcasts.
Good.

Speaker 1 And I'm going to start a third. And it's called, called, it's fine to do this to yourself.

Speaker 2 It's fine. It's fine.

Speaker 1 That actually would be funny. It's fine.
A podcast called It's Fine. And you just have people come on and talk about shit that is so not okay that they put themselves through.

Speaker 2 It's fine. It was fine.
I was fine.

Speaker 1 It was fine. No, I liked it.

Speaker 2 It was fine.

Speaker 1 By the time the plane is repaired, Amelia's team has shrunk. The technical advisor, Paul, and Harry, the marine navigator, the only guy with radio experience, both back out.

Speaker 2 They were like, later days.

Speaker 1 They're like, read the fates.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm going to go take a nap.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's nap time.

Speaker 2 Mercury is in retrograde.

Speaker 1 So now it's Amelia and Fred Noonan. Thanks to changing weather patterns, they're forced to come up with a whole new flight plan.

Speaker 1 So instead of leaving from Hawaii, they're now taking off from Miami, Florida. And on June 1st, 1937, they do just that, this time without a hitch.
And then they start on this 40-day,

Speaker 1 20,000-mile trip, making several stops to refuel along the way. They soar over Africa, through the Middle East, over Southeast Asia, on to New Guinea.

Speaker 1 They have another stop before a very long stretch over the Pacific Ocean.

Speaker 2 They're the first people who have ever seen this from the fucking air. Like, how

Speaker 2 believable?

Speaker 1 On July 2nd, 1937, Amelia and Fred take off from New Guinea.

Speaker 1 At this point, they've completed nearly three-quarters of this journey, and the goal is to now get to a tiny sliver of land called Howland Island, roughly halfway between Australia and Hawaii,

Speaker 1 truly out in the middle of the Pacific.

Speaker 1 And it's only about a mile and a half long island and a half a mile wide.

Speaker 2 That's a hard target.

Speaker 1 That's a little tiny one.

Speaker 1 Tragically, Amelia and Fred struggle to find Howland Island.

Speaker 1 We know they arrive in the general area because Amelia starts radioing the Coast Guard, who have a ship called Itasca nearby, and they're receiving her messages.

Speaker 1 Some of these transmissions are so crystal clear that the men on the Itasca rush to the decks thinking that the plane will be overhead.

Speaker 2 Wow.

Speaker 1 In one of her transmissions, Amelia says that she thinks she's close by, but she's lost, and she only has about half an hour of fuel left.

Speaker 1 But because she doesn't know much about radio transmission, she's sending these messages while on an improper frequency on the radio.

Speaker 1 So the Coast Guard is only able to respond to her with Morse code, which neither she nor Fred understands.

Speaker 2 That's an important one.

Speaker 1 A lot of crucial

Speaker 1 elements.

Speaker 2 Let's not criticize them. We're not.

Speaker 1 You know where the story goes from here. The messages stop coming in.
39-year-old Amelia Earhart and 44-year-old Fred Noonan and the plane that they're flying in together disappear.

Speaker 1 Almost immediately. FDR dispatches a huge crew to go look for them.
It's made up of 10 ships and 65 planes. Wow.
And that causes a a lot of controversy because it costs millions of dollars.

Speaker 1 It's still the depression. So after two weeks of combing a vast swath of the Pacific Ocean near Howland Island with no results, this search is called off.
But George Putnam has his own search going.

Speaker 2 I forgot that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay. He funds an independent search himself, and it goes until October of 1937.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 So he just kind of never stopped searching for her.

Speaker 1 That also turns up nothing. In January of 1939, two years after vanishing, Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan are legally declared dead.

Speaker 2 They turn up nothing, not a scrap. So they were like looking in the wrong area.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 we'll talk about that in one second. There are countless theories of what happened during those final moments of Amelia's last flight.
All have devoted supporters, as they usually do.

Speaker 1 Because of the disappearance happened in the lead up to World War II, some people think that Amelia and Fred were captured by the Japanese military after crash landing on a Japanese-controlled island, and they were either executed for being American spies or they were turned into spies for Japan and sent back to the U.S.

Speaker 1 with new identities.

Speaker 1 That one's a little wild.

Speaker 2 But what if?

Speaker 2 Now we write that movie.

Speaker 1 Another theory is that Amelia wound up on an island called Nicomoro.

Speaker 1 Sorry for that pronunciation, 400 miles south of Howland Island.

Speaker 2 Is this where they found her compact?

Speaker 2 Hold on. Wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 1 They think they might have lived as castaways there before dying of thirst or starvation.

Speaker 1 Some people believe this theory then take it one step further, suggesting that massive coconut crabs could have consumed their remains and scattered their bones, making their bodies harder to find.

Speaker 1 Okay, those fuckers are big. I mean, it's such a creepy idea.

Speaker 1 The island had been inhabited in the past, but it was uninhabited at the time of this flight.

Speaker 1 Despite this, intermittent intermittent radio signals were reported from that general area around the time they disappeared. Interesting.

Speaker 1 As if the plane's radio had remained intact and accessible, and they were calling for help.

Speaker 1 On top of that, in 1940, bones are found on Nakamororo. They have since been lost, so the DNA has never been tested.

Speaker 2 Come on.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 But again, that island had been inhabited, so they weren't necessarily there. Searchers have found on that island a single shoe, a piece of aluminum,

Speaker 1 and a jar of freckle cream. Freckle cream.
Which certainly points to a person and maybe a woman having been there.

Speaker 1 And for what it's worth, Amelia Earhart had freckles that she was reportedly very self-conscious about.

Speaker 2 Oh, first of all, it breaks my heart that she is so self-conscious that she brings freckle cream on this like adventure.

Speaker 2 But then I'm like, I wonder if that was like their SPF at the time, where it's like you had to cover your freckles with this cream and and maybe it wouldn't get worse.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it was maybe like two for one where she's like, I need moisture because this wind's going to whip around my face.

Speaker 2 It's like a sunscreen. It's an early sunscreen.
Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, yeah, it's her. It's theirs.
It's the same.

Speaker 1 Could you imagine you're just on this island? It's mostly coconut crabs. And then you're just like, pons.

Speaker 2 Pons.

Speaker 2 Cold cream. What if the cold cream was like a sponsor of the flight? Like, since we had to bring it.
Who's the sponsor of this podcast? Oh, my God. Freckle cream.
Freckle cream. Freckle clem.

Speaker 1 Amelia Earhart uses it and you can too. No, because now they love freckles so much that they have little freckle stamps.

Speaker 2 And they have tattoos of freckles on your fucking face.

Speaker 1 The kids these days with their big butts and their freckles and their attitudes.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 1 Those items are never confirmed as belonging to either Fred or Amelia, and modern-day efforts to search the surrounding ocean near that island have turned up nothing.

Speaker 1 Of course, many people think Amelia's plane simply ran out of fuel and crashed into the open ocean because of the sheer size and depth of the Pacific. It hasn't been found.

Speaker 1 Amelia's sister, Muriel, thinks this is what happened. Quote, I'm not happy with some of the dramas about Amelia where they went into fiction.

Speaker 1 So essentially, of course, that's how it always is.

Speaker 2 It's actually simple. It's like theorizing.

Speaker 1 The hard truth, which presumably was much harder for Muriel, Amelia's mother, Amy, and her husband, George, is that we simply do not know what happened to her.

Speaker 1 George Putnam died in 1950 at age 62 of kidney problems. Amy, Amelia's mother, died in 1962 at age 95.
And her sister Muriel passed away in 1998 at the age of 98.

Speaker 2 Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Searchers continue to hunt for any signs of Amelia Earhart or her plane.

Speaker 1 As recently as 2023, a deep sea exploration group released an underwater sonar image of what they thought was the plane, but in 2024, they discovered it was just a bunch of rocks.

Speaker 2 Oh no.

Speaker 1 Uh-huh. Plane-shaped rocks.
All that in mind, instead of focusing on the mysterious ending of Amelia's story, we can always relish in what we do know about her life and her bold approach to living it.

Speaker 1 As writer Anthony Brandt has said, quote, it wasn't that Amelia was willful, rather, that she was free. She was calm, fearless, cheerful in the face of life, and she attracted everybody.

Speaker 1 She believed that women should live lives rich in experience and have careers if they possibly could.

Speaker 2 Can you imagine?

Speaker 1 And she lived her belief. She was a remarkable human being, a historic figure, one of those people who skirting the farthermost edges of experience open up possibilities for us all.

Speaker 1 And that is the story of pioneering aviatrix Amelia Earhart.

Speaker 2 Boom.

Speaker 1 High five for Amelia Earhart.

Speaker 2 Good job. Thank you.
Wow. Had to be done.

Speaker 1 If you're in the fifth grade and you heard anything I said that was wrong, please write in at myfavorite murder at gmail.com because we know you all have done reports on her.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we're open to corrections.

Speaker 2 Always.

Speaker 1 Women should live free. It's insane.

Speaker 2 Can you imagine?

Speaker 1 But it really is the truth. It is.

Speaker 2 That was its own fucking hooray, I feel like. I do too.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That was pretty great.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Pretty great end. Still send us your fucking hoorays and comment them, but please.
That was it. Yes.
This week.

Speaker 1 We've done all the work we need to do. I agree.
Great. Then stay sexy.

Speaker 2 And don't get murdered. Goodbye.

Speaker 2 Elvis, do you want a cookie?

Speaker 1 This has been an Exactly Right production.

Speaker 2 Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.

Speaker 1 Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

Speaker 2 This episode was mixed by Liana Squalachi.

Speaker 1 Our researchers are Maren McGlashen and Allie Elkin.

Speaker 2 Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com.

Speaker 1 Follow the show on Instagram at myfavoritemurder.

Speaker 2 Listen to MyFavorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 1 And now you can watch us on Exactly Right's YouTube page. While you're there, please like and subscribe.

Speaker 2 Goodbye.

Speaker 3 Greetings for my bath, festive friends. The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money, getting 5% cash back when I pay in four.

Speaker 4 No fees, no interest.

Speaker 3 I used it to get this portable spa with jets.

Speaker 4 Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body. Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal.

Speaker 5 Save the offer in the app. NS1231, see paypal.com slash promo terms.
Points give you redeemed for cash and more paying for subject to terms and approval. PayPal Inc.
at MLS 910-457.

Speaker 6 AI agents are everywhere, automating tasks and making decisions at machine speed.

Speaker 7 But agents make mistakes.

Speaker 7 Just one rogue agent can do big damage before you even notice.

Speaker 6 Rubrik Agent Cloud is the only platform that helps you monitor agents, set guardrails, and rewind mistakes so you can unleash agents, not risk. Accelerate your AI transformation at rubric.com.

Speaker 6 That's R-U-B-R-I-K.com.

Speaker 8 Delta Airlines just turned 100 and is already shaping the next century of flight with the Delta Sustainable Skies Lab. Here, they're building the future of flight.

Speaker 8 Think electric air taxis and next-gen aircraft aiming to cut fuel burn significantly. And this isn't just future talk.

Speaker 8 Today their fleet of Boeing 737s have marine-like finlets designed to reshape airflow that reduces drag. The future of travel is more sustainable, and Delta's leading the way.

Speaker 8 Learn more at delta.com slash sustainability.