Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 36: Live from LA Podcast Festival

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Now this one.

Speaker 1 Oh, this one's so long. Why didn't we make those two episodes? Why in God's name would we have Dave do his own whole fucking story? I don't.

Speaker 1 Or why wasn't it just Dave doing his own whole story right like what the were we thinking

Speaker 1 Hello

Speaker 1 and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. That's right.
It is Wend's Day. So we are recapping one of our old shows with all new commentary and case updates and emotional reveals.

Speaker 1 Now, this one is crazy. We're recapping episode 36,

Speaker 1 which we named Live from the LA Podcast Festival because it was our first live show. Our first live show.

Speaker 1 Amazing.

Speaker 1 I can still remember driving to that live show from work,

Speaker 1 trying to put on makeup in the car as I go to this, our first live show. And it was like,

Speaker 1 why can't I like like nothing in my life is set up so that the things I should be prioritizing are prioritized.

Speaker 1 For example, first and foremost, my appearance or you and yourself and your own, like any

Speaker 1 ambitions.

Speaker 1 Nope.

Speaker 1 Pay those bills. Oh, anyway.
So on this episode, we're joined by our very first guest, a comedian and fellow podcaster, co-host of the doll-up, Dave Anthony. And even he tells a story as we were

Speaker 1 complaining earlier. Everyone gets an hour.

Speaker 1 So get comfy and join us as we take you back to September 29th, 2016, which of course would also have been the 258th birthday of British naval hero Admiral Nelson. We must celebrate Admiral Nelson.

Speaker 1 He joined the Navy when he was 12 years old.

Speaker 1 Is that Alison Agassiz putting that in there?

Speaker 1 She originally put in, it was the birthday, whatever birthday of Kevin Durant. And I was like, George and I don't really follow basketball.

Speaker 1 And then we look, she goes, I know, but nobody else was born on this day. And we look, it's Halsey and it's Kevin Durant and it's Admiral Nelson.

Speaker 1 And everybody else is like a YouTube star that you and I have not heard of. But I've never heard of Admiral Nelson.
So

Speaker 1 it's fine. But he joined the Navy when he was 12.
Oh, well, baby. All right.
Let's do this. It's time for the intro of episode 36, which, which is the first live anything we've ever done.

Speaker 1 Let's see how we do.

Speaker 2 All right, we did this wrong. All right, there's trash.
Just don't worry about the trash. Glamorous,

Speaker 3 classy, professional.

Speaker 3 Hi, welcome to my favorite murder live, everybody.

Speaker 2 We had them recreate my apartment

Speaker 2 on stage.

Speaker 3 Georgia's blue curtains are gorgeous.

Speaker 2 Oh my God, can we talk about this?

Speaker 3 Yes, can we please?

Speaker 2 Karen, tell me everything.

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 3 last week when we were talking about how we are going to come and do a live podcast and we were talking about all the things we needed to do and bring and have to recreate the same environment that we have in Georgia's hot, hot apartment when we record every week.

Speaker 3 And Georgia made a joke and said, I guess I'll buy a cage to bring Elvis. And I said, or you could just have him stuffed.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 3 her heart broke in front of me.

Speaker 3 And now I'm that friend. So I've been trying to think for like six days, trying to think like, you got to make good on that piece of bullshit.

Speaker 3 And then I remembered that I'm a compulsive vintage thrift store shopper.

Speaker 3 And I got shit like this laying around by the dozens.

Speaker 3 And I was like, excuse me, don't you have some sixth grade teacher hand-knit a Siamese cat?

Speaker 3 And it's just been sitting in a closet for like fucking seven years.

Speaker 2 And they're like, Elvis is here.

Speaker 2 When I saw that backstage, I was like, I'm not supposed to see that. And if I look at it, I'm going to cry.
So I didn't, because it's so sweet. And so I didn't look at it.

Speaker 2 What happened? I'm just trying to move my, Okay.

Speaker 3 There we go. Have you gotten a good look at it? Because there's truly about four years of dust right on the top.

Speaker 2 You guys can see that. That meant a lot.
Karen, thank you so much.

Speaker 3 And I would have dusted it off, but I was running late.

Speaker 2 And if you know my apartment, you don't know my apartment. This is the most perfect thing for my apartment.

Speaker 3 It's going to match everything.

Speaker 2 It's like a grandma, and there's like sea foam happening.

Speaker 3 It's a sea foamy apartment.

Speaker 2 Everything. It makes me so.
Thank you so much, Karen.

Speaker 3 You're welcome.

Speaker 2 I got you a nothing.

Speaker 3 I'm going to catch a moonbeam in my pocket.

Speaker 2 Save it to

Speaker 2 our first live show. Look at it.

Speaker 2 Thank you. You guys.
I'm nervous.

Speaker 3 I'm nervous. Are you nervous? I'm nervous.
Let's talk it through. Okay.

Speaker 3 What do you think it could happen that's nerve-wracking?

Speaker 2 It already happened. Off the what?

Speaker 3 No, nothing. Dusty cat picture.

Speaker 2 No, nothing, nothing. Everything's good.

Speaker 3 This is great. But what's your, we're just working from worst fears.
Like

Speaker 3 Martin comes to my ex-boyfriend right there where you can't stop making eye contact.

Speaker 2 Well, that's his fault, not yours.

Speaker 3 Good one.

Speaker 2 You know?

Speaker 3 What's yours?

Speaker 2 Mine is saying something so stupid and then like silence. You know what I mean? Everyone laugh at that.

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 2 Wow, Jeb Bush.

Speaker 2 That can't have felt good. Everybody laughed at that.

Speaker 2 Because when we're doing it in my apartment, it's like we're just talking to each other. I know.
Let's just, I'm going to pretend we're talking to each other.

Speaker 3 Good plan. Okay.
Because you still have to talk to them.

Speaker 2 I insist. Okay.

Speaker 3 Yeah, we're very excited. It's obviously we can't do our normal house cleaning.

Speaker 3 I mean, housekeeping. Oops, I messed up my line already.

Speaker 2 Housekeeping.

Speaker 3 Housekeeping. Housekeeping.

Speaker 2 Do you have any? I don't. Oh, yes.

Speaker 3 I have one, but it's like heartfelt. I'm touching housekeeping.

Speaker 2 Go, go, go. I love it.

Speaker 3 It has nothing to do with me not knowing the capital of Norway or whatever the fuck ignorance is exposed on this goddamn podcast every week. I used to think I was super smart.

Speaker 3 You should have seen me in the 90s fucking

Speaker 3 playing Jeopardy at home and shit.

Speaker 3 Now I'm like a shell of a woman.

Speaker 2 So, um,

Speaker 3 uh, Dustin the head of Feral Audio, forwarded this email to us the other day.

Speaker 2 He also brought us fucking flowers.

Speaker 3 And he brought us double roses.

Speaker 2 There you go. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 That's fucking exactly how you do it.

Speaker 3 Who's that character?

Speaker 3 So this is the email he sent, and it says,

Speaker 3 some of you will recognize this if you've listened to the podcast recently.

Speaker 3 Hi, Karen in Georgia. Oh my God, just heard your podcast about me.
You two made me cry and feel so honored.

Speaker 3 While my attack was horrible, hearing you two reminded me that my story might help other women. Thank you for this gift tonight.
It's been 21 years.

Speaker 3 I'm raising my son and daughter, trying to prepare them for a crazy world. My attack is now part of my DNA, just who I am.
But you honored me by reminding me,

Speaker 3 even me, that stories of survival remind us all of the gift of life and challenge of our survival. Call me.
And she gave us her phone number. It's Jennifer Maury.

Speaker 3 The chick who, yeah, the woman who got attacked by the security guard story.

Speaker 3 Who held her open neck, open, closed with a towel.

Speaker 2 She doesn't hate us. She wants us to call her.
She

Speaker 2 is super into it. What the fuck?

Speaker 2 We're gonna fucking call her.

Speaker 3 Dude, we can't do it now. That'd be

Speaker 3 an invasion of privacy.

Speaker 2 Jennifer.

Speaker 2 We're all here. Hey.

Speaker 3 Jennifer, what color towel held your neck together?

Speaker 2 That's bananas because, like, I feel like we're both always afraid that we're like, you know,

Speaker 2 we don't want to make any victims feel that we're just like exploiting them.

Speaker 3 There's so many, there's so many potholes to fall into.

Speaker 2 Sure. So this is just like, I know you were really happy to get this like nice fucking email from someone that we talked about.
Like, that's bananas.

Speaker 3 Well, also, I'm so obsessed with the show I Survived that Jennifer.

Speaker 2 Right, that's true. That too.

Speaker 3 Jennifer, but Jennifer Maury is like one of my my real housewives. Only she did something way fucking cooler.

Speaker 2 She's way fucking cooler.

Speaker 3 Like, she's a badass. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Also, probably a housewife.

Speaker 2 So, yeah. She deserves to be a housewife at this point.
I mean, like, take your fucking day off.

Speaker 3 Well, that's the cool thing is she's an attorney and she's a victims' rights advocate. So she's going for it.
We have no excuse.

Speaker 3 We have to leave this podcast festival right now and help someone. Let's go.

Speaker 2 All of us.

Speaker 2 Can we just make everyone leave leave the park and become victims' rights advocates tonight? Children?

Speaker 3 Tonight. Tonight near the Beverly Center.

Speaker 2 There's a van outside, and it's signing everyone up. And we'll know if you don't do it.

Speaker 3 I feel like there was another thing that we were supposed to mention.

Speaker 2 You guys, you're used to this already.

Speaker 2 Except Stephen edits this part out. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 Stephen's going to get pulled.

Speaker 2 On the podcast.

Speaker 3 Drink it in.

Speaker 3 All right. I guess we'll just bring out our guests.

Speaker 2 No, let's just do it. We only have 90 minutes.

Speaker 3 So, after we interview each and every one of you, I think then we're going to go to the cards.

Speaker 3 Well, our guest tonight, excitingly enough, is

Speaker 3 one of the hosts of the Dollop,

Speaker 3 and he's my first comedy boyfriend. So, please welcome the stage, Dave Anthony.

Speaker 3 Yay!

Speaker 3 Oh, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 Hi. Hi.

Speaker 2 You guys are at a table and I'm over here. I know.

Speaker 3 Get in here. Let's scoot it on over.

Speaker 2 I can't get on Charlie Rose this thing. I know.
Charlie Rose this is. Sciatica.
How is that, by the way? I had a friend in New York who had the sciatica

Speaker 2 thing.

Speaker 2 How did she cure it? Oh, she didn't make it. Oh!

Speaker 2 That's awful news. I probably shouldn't have brought that up.

Speaker 2 Sake.

Speaker 2 Uh, you know what? I don't remember how she uh,

Speaker 2 but you're probably getting a lot of suggestions. I'm getting so many, but very nice ones.
Thank you, everyone. That's good.
Because that's a terrible. She, I remember her going through it.

Speaker 2 It was, it was terrible. Sucks.
What are you gonna do? Yeah, I had a little uh

Speaker 2 back thing. You know, some people have a war in their country, so it's hard to complain about sighting.

Speaker 2 You know what? Don't complain about your own pain because uh, people have been to war. Yeah, sighting.
So, uh,

Speaker 1 Oh, we are back. I mean, what a strong start.
I remember everything about that live show. It's like the last one I truly remember on its own.

Speaker 1 The other ones that we've done since then are all kind of like a mishmash of moments. Yeah.
But maybe because I was so nervous. Yep.
But you also gave me that Siamese cat knit art. Yep.
That was.

Speaker 1 So unexpected and incredible. Well, and because I had basically threatened Elvis' life, you could interpret it that way if you chose to.
So I did need to do a little makeup.

Speaker 1 But I also knew that like it's like, oh, we're so nervous and we're so kind of concerned with what's going on that we're, I was afraid we weren't going to do any of our normal stuff at the top. Right.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? That it was just. We had no idea.
We didn't discuss. And also we were in this conference room.

Speaker 1 Listener, let us describe it for you now because we were in the Softil Hotel, which is in right downtown Hollywood, essentially. Yeah.
Up in a conference room. A beautiful fancy hotel.
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 A conference room that was fully lit. I could look into and probably describe to you the faces of the audience members that were there that night.
Yeah. And we didn't know.

Speaker 1 Like we were, that was part of LA Podcast Fest. So I was like, oh, these people were just already here and they're just like, oh, we'll go see them too.
Right. There's a break.

Speaker 1 Let's go see this podcast. It was like, do you think it was like 150 or 300 people? What do you think? I mean, somewhere around there.
It was a pretty big conference room.

Speaker 1 I would say somewhere between two and and 300 people. Yeah.
Because that sounds right. It was a nice big, you know, ovation.

Speaker 1 It didn't feel like there was like sparse seats, you know, empty seats or anything like that. It really did feel like we had a nice kind of thing going.

Speaker 1 But I do definitely remember beforehand when we were backstage, I turned to you and I was like, do you have the theme song? And you literally kind of like... kind of like smiled at me and walked away.

Speaker 1 Like I think you were going into nerves or going into some sort of personal space of like we're about to walk on stage. And me.

Speaker 1 me you know where i was going into is a fucking glass of champagne that's where i was going into you're like i got to get in here because i was like i should have thought about this but now that we're standing here like when they say our name we should go on to the theme song because that's going to help us a lot you know whatever and thank god stephen was backstage stephen yes stephen saved the day as he's done a million times yes where he was kind of like i got it he's like i think i have it i don't know and i'm like will you just go find the person and make this happen you know what we need and he was like yes And he did it.

Speaker 1 That's pretty good. Thank you, Stephen.
All right. So for some reason, we thought it'd be a great idea that night to let each one of us, you, me, and Dave, tell an entire fucking story.

Speaker 1 Like, why didn't we have Dave do one? Why didn't you or I do one? I don't know. Really strange.
I think we were just kind of like, well, this is what he does on his podcast. Right.

Speaker 1 We'll all do it together. Yeah.
With no, no concern about time. No, this could have been two episodes.
Like, why did we, why did we do this to ourselves? Also, I think this was a very early

Speaker 1 us talking about the trailside killer and like the kind of stuff we were doing in this is probably the height of the bad combination of comedy and true crime.

Speaker 1 Whereas really being casual and jokey about some of the

Speaker 1 trailside killer, well, at least personally, because I lived through it and like watched it on TV, was a very, very traumatizing thing for kids in the North Bay to go through.

Speaker 1 And I think that's what Dave and I were kind of processing was just like

Speaker 1 this and kind of being able to retell it, you know, whatever it was 50 years later with that distance, but it also just really cringy. Some of these jokes are horrible.
Totally, totally.

Speaker 1 I mean, and all three of the cases that we cover are terrible and could stand alone. But let's get into Dave's story.
He's first. Yeah.
Here's his story about the trailside killer.

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Speaker 1 Goodbye.

Speaker 3 Dave, will you please tell us

Speaker 2 about your favorite murder? Oh my god. David,

Speaker 3 this is our first guest.

Speaker 2 I went back and I was like, well, they've had to have a guest on, and you guys had to.

Speaker 3 Oh, no, we don't. Very first.
We expressly do not.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Elvis and Stephen are the only people we've had in the podcast.

Speaker 2 So my uh favorite murderer

Speaker 2 by the way I took a really great picture of us

Speaker 2 and I just posted it

Speaker 2 I think uh

Speaker 3 did we know

Speaker 2 it's gross it's me and it's me and Georgia am I picking my nose it's me and Georgia backstage

Speaker 2 She uh is my favorite ghost

Speaker 2 Georgina hubostank oh there's that's Georgina Hobostank

Speaker 2 Spin off. Oh, I turned off my bag.

Speaker 2 I never called you a fucking asshole for that.

Speaker 2 So I grew up near Karen.

Speaker 2 I grew up

Speaker 2 just south of her in a place called Morin County.

Speaker 2 And in Morin County, we have a place called Mount Tamil Pias.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Just the one.

Speaker 2 Been there. Some really fucking great things happen.
I'm at Tamil Pius. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, this says shark attacks.

Speaker 2 So let's bring up the actual

Speaker 2 one.

Speaker 2 No, I've got to go to my email. Oh, we didn't tell you.
I didn't tell you there's no notes.

Speaker 2 No, you guys have been

Speaker 2 reading.

Speaker 2 You guys have been reading Wikipedia. I've been listening.

Speaker 2 It's not as fluid and as crazy as it used to be.

Speaker 2 Right. And then you get Correction Corner.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 It's made us millions of dollars.

Speaker 2 I do a carefully crafted podcast, which makes us much less money than that. Okay.
That sounds boring. But it's.

Speaker 2 Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 Some guy one time on Twitter all of a sudden he comes out of nowhere and he goes, you stupid podcast. You just re-Wikipedia.
You talk about it. I was like,

Speaker 2 yeah, I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 2 That's your new Wikipedia. That's what I'm doing.
Right.

Speaker 2 That's it. But then I got in trouble, so I don't do that anymore.

Speaker 2 Okay, so I put a date on May 6, 1930.

Speaker 2 Yes!

Speaker 2 I can't. That's called a crossover.
I can't not do that.

Speaker 3 It's called a mashup.

Speaker 2 It's called a crossover. It's called a mixtape.
Okay,

Speaker 2 so David Carpenter, and you obviously know I was doing this one, because who else would I do from Marin? Yeah. So he's born in San Francisco.

Speaker 2 Raised by very strict and aggressive parents, alcoholic father, beat him up, neglected him. His mother was very domineering and nearly blind.

Speaker 2 Whoa. So that's like...
How to make a murderer. I mean,

Speaker 2 101. I mean, how did you not murder at three? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Wait, blind and aggressive.

Speaker 3 What does that look like?

Speaker 3 It's messy alike.

Speaker 2 It's messy. There's a lot of punching of you and then like a wall.

Speaker 2 A lot of lamps broken in that house.

Speaker 2 Not a flower stayed in a vase through his whole childhood.

Speaker 2 Get over here. I'm punching things.

Speaker 2 So when he was seven, he was stuttering so badly. He had a difficult time in any social situation.
See, what she just did, I just told her backstage.

Speaker 2 That's why we don't do terrible, really, really terrible murders on the dollar because neither I or Gareth would go, oh.

Speaker 2 Ever. And then it's a different show where you're like, what the fuck are these guys doing?

Speaker 2 It's called a humanity. Oh, look, empathy helps.
Empathy?

Speaker 2 So he's stuttering horribly. Then he was being ridiculed,

Speaker 2 which made him painfully reclusive. And to get him over this, his parents forced him into extracurricular activities.
I've been there. Such as

Speaker 2 piano and ballet. Oh,

Speaker 2 dude.

Speaker 3 That old blind bitch.

Speaker 2 Fuck her. Seriously.

Speaker 2 That is passive aggression, if not overt aggression. She can't even see him doing ballet.
I know.

Speaker 2 How does she enjoy that?

Speaker 2 Purely for the humiliation. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So oddly, that did not help his crippling stutter.

Speaker 2 He then began to take out his frustrations on animals

Speaker 2 and he became a bedwetter.

Speaker 3 Ding-dong. We've got two.

Speaker 2 We've got two so far.

Speaker 3 When does he hit his head in ballet class

Speaker 3 to give us the majestic trifecta of serial killing?

Speaker 2 Then when he became a teenager, he started molesting children.

Speaker 2 He was arrested for molesting his two cousins, three and eight. He served a year for that crime.
Good. Oh, as you do.

Speaker 2 You're going to enjoy the sentences.

Speaker 2 And this one.

Speaker 2 And then he was released. He became even more of a predator, continued molesting until he met a woman, Ellen Headle, who had no sense of anything, and they got married.

Speaker 2 She's like, you seem so fucking weird, and your family is crazy. Let's get married.

Speaker 3 I want to lock this down.

Speaker 2 He worked at different jobs. He was a ship's purser.

Speaker 2 My dad was a ship's purser. He is.
I have no idea what it is. Who's that? I think you run around giving ladies purses.
No.

Speaker 3 It's

Speaker 3 gopher from the love boat. You just carry bags and stuff.

Speaker 2 That's it. So you're like a bellboy on a ship.
Right, exactly. Okay.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I wasn't sure what it was. I just, I assumed someone here would know.
Karen.

Speaker 2 It's Karen.

Speaker 2 He was also a salesman and a printer. He had a very serious need for sex and was very demanding.
He needed to have sex three times a night.

Speaker 3 He waved it, he saved it all till the night. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He wouldn't sprinkle it throughout.

Speaker 2 One morning, one afternoon. Like, come on, everyone.
Come on. He needed it at night.
The night hours.

Speaker 2 He's a night fucker.

Speaker 2 Trying to read a book over here.

Speaker 2 Well, you do what you do, and I'll do what I do. Come on.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 I always find the build-up to people fascinating how they got there.

Speaker 2 In the dollop, it's always,

Speaker 2 and then their mother or father died when they were three. Every story.
Yes. Everyone.
And then I assume you guys get a lot of bedwetters. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. Heading heads all the time.

Speaker 3 Mean dads, bedwetters.

Speaker 2 Jesus fucking Christ.

Speaker 2 So he had three children with her.

Speaker 2 And then he began prowling again. In 1960, he became friends with a woman, Lois DiAndre.

Speaker 2 No, DiAndrade, and he invited her to meet his wife and started including her in their lives.

Speaker 2 Then one day he took her to work, but instead of doing that, he drove her to a wooded area of the Presidio, which at that time was an army base, and pretended like he was lost.

Speaker 2 At some point, he grabbed her, straddled her, bound her with a clothesline, and using a knife, he threatened her and forced her to be sill.

Speaker 2 He said he had, still, he said he had a funny quirk that needed to be satisfied. Real funny.

Speaker 3 It's not ballet right. It's not.

Speaker 2 It's not.

Speaker 2 And then he put on a tutor.

Speaker 2 This is terrible.

Speaker 2 She then tried to get away, and so he hit her several times with a hammer. Oh, fuck.

Speaker 2 Now, before and during the incident, he completely lost his stutter. His speech was slow and deliberate and angry.
Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Thankfully, there was an MP on the base, and he was was very suspicious watching the car. Watching a woman getting hit in the fucking

Speaker 3 light. Look at that knife.

Speaker 2 I don't know. Why would we do?

Speaker 3 She seems to be crying near the knife.

Speaker 2 So he hurt, and then he heard the cries for help, and he was near. So he came over, and Carpenter got out of the car and shot at him and missed.

Speaker 2 And then the MP shot back and hit Carpenter in the leg and I think the back.

Speaker 2 Carpenter was arrested, but he said his excuse was that he blacked out during the whole attack, which is solid. Yeah, let him go.
It's a solid excuse. Oops.
I don't remember hitting her with a hammer.

Speaker 3 I think I was napping.

Speaker 2 He was given a 14-year sentence.

Speaker 2 That's it. That's the story.
Yeah. Oh, well, thanks for being here today.

Speaker 2 And then for some reason, his wife divorced him. I don't know why.

Speaker 2 During his stay stay in prison, psychiatrists reported that Carpenter has a quote sociopathic personality disorder and an IQ of 125.

Speaker 2 That's too many IQs.

Speaker 3 Your sad amount makes me nervous.

Speaker 2 That many. That's more than me, for sure.
More than I.

Speaker 2 In 1969, he was freed after nine years. Being a catch, he remarried four months after getting out.

Speaker 3 No, but look, he had been doing push-ups, and he got that one tattoo, and he was like, I'm going to put a cigarette in the corner of my mouth and stuff.

Speaker 2 You think it sounds bad, but then if you see prison trim, like just a trim dude,

Speaker 2 you're like, all right, well,

Speaker 2 the other stuff, the stutter, the killing of animals, the molestation,

Speaker 2 the beating of a woman with a hammer. Like that's the toe shoes.
He looks good.

Speaker 2 He looks good. You can look past it.

Speaker 3 You can look past it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But in under a year, he returned to his ways and the marriage was over.

Speaker 2 Then he hit a woman with his... So he drive.
So there's a woman driving and he hits her car.

Speaker 2 And then he pulls her out of it and starts ripping her clothes off in the middle of the road. I'm terrified of this.
I think about this all the time. What? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Like someone intentionally hitting your car

Speaker 2 so they can pull all your clothes off. Oh, I mean, but who doesn't?

Speaker 2 They, they, like, I was at State Farm Insurance the other day and they brought that up.

Speaker 3 What a common accident situation.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they're like, have you, have you? I know you've been any vendor vendors, but has anybody ripped your clothes off? And I was like, no. Have you been? Thankfully, not yet.

Speaker 3 There was a vendor pulley offer.

Speaker 2 What? Where are you?

Speaker 2 I'm going to describe that as a unique anxiety that you have.

Speaker 2 So she fought him, and then he stabbed her.

Speaker 3 She somehow managed. Anxiety about that.

Speaker 2 Weirdo that way.

Speaker 2 She managed to get back in her car and get away. And she got his license plate.
Fuck yeah. That kind of shit fucking amazing.

Speaker 2 Can she email us and tell her to talk to us?

Speaker 3 She's like, she probably had like crazy, like 30-20 vision, and she was just like, this is just like blowing people up with her mind.

Speaker 2 Just like, you're gonna fucking, you're gonna pull my clothes off.

Speaker 3 I'll fucking memorize every letter on your license plate.

Speaker 2 Amazing. His license plate was like a vanity plate of like, kill, I'm a killer.

Speaker 3 Love to kill.

Speaker 3 One.

Speaker 2 So figuring that he was probably up Shitt's Creek at this point, he broke into a home, kidnapped and raped a woman, and stole her car.

Speaker 2 Two days later, he snatched Sharon O'Donnell and held her with a shotgun. But when he tried to switch

Speaker 2 license plates on his car, she escaped. He then stole another car.
Later that day, he kidnapped and raped another woman, and he was arrested later that day. This is February 3rd, 1970.

Speaker 3 He was going for it.

Speaker 2 Top day.

Speaker 2 We have those days where, like, I'm going to fucking tick every check mark on my to-do list.

Speaker 3 I'm going to get shit done today. I'm sick of it.
I will go to Home Depot. I will drop those clothes off at the Goodwill.

Speaker 3 I will rape a ton of people.

Speaker 3 I just have to do it.

Speaker 3 Oh, no.

Speaker 2 This is the podcast where we get fucking thrown because we're just like being so mean right now. Too bad.

Speaker 3 I can't live that way.

Speaker 2 I can't live under that pressure.

Speaker 3 I've got to be me.

Speaker 3 That's why this works. That's why this works.

Speaker 2 So he was sentenced to seven years for kidnap and robbery, and he pled out. He also received two more years for his parole violations.

Speaker 2 He got out in May 1979, but was not listed as a sex offender.

Speaker 2 No. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean, why would you? No. He didn't do anything.
I mean, he offended, but it wasn't sexual.

Speaker 2 He took up hiking as a hobby.

Speaker 2 Alone in the woods.

Speaker 2 Perfect.

Speaker 2 Not like other people. He liked the seclusion of the wilderness.

Speaker 2 To dress like a clown.

Speaker 2 He was the clown hiker.

Speaker 2 He liked to grab women, so that's the perfect place. Just three months after being released, while living at a halfway house, he committed his first murder.

Speaker 2 On August 19th, 1979, Etta Kane, 44, was walking on the trails of Mount Tamil Pious, which overlooks Golden Gate Bridge, which is also where I grew up riding mountain bikes, right next to my house, which is also where I asked my wife to marry me.

Speaker 2 I didn't tell her this part.

Speaker 2 That's why it works.

Speaker 2 Oh, man, I love you, and there's some other stuff we'll get to by you or something.

Speaker 2 I like a week. We'll talk about it.

Speaker 2 But this is a weird spot.

Speaker 2 So Etta was alone.

Speaker 2 Wagging, she was attacked from behind, forced to get on her knees and beg for her life.

Speaker 2 And then he shot her in the back of the head, execution style. Fucking dick.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Her body was found the next day. He had taken $10 from her wallet, credit cards, and her glasses, and left very little evidence.
Witnesses said they saw two two lone men.

Speaker 2 One was blonde and acting strange. The other had on a dark blue jacket that made him sweat and he hid his face.
Which one is it?

Speaker 2 I mean, clearly, the guy walking around acting strange is smoking pot, and the guy hiding his face is the fucking killer. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, there's one guy acting weird when he's blonde, and there's another guy that's like,

Speaker 3 also, wearing a jacket when it's hot, it creaks me out so bad.

Speaker 3 That immediately gave me a stomachache to think about that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, the only the fucked up people wear jackets. It's just like a weird jacket.
No, you're a murderer.

Speaker 2 They should be able to just arrest people who are wearing jackets on the bottom. You're a murderer or you're anorexic and you're fucking cold all the time.
Yeah. Seek some help.

Speaker 3 Either way, they should arrest them both. Totally.

Speaker 2 I just spit on my iPad.

Speaker 2 Said from us.

Speaker 2 So this guy was clearly a carpenter. For a brief time, people living in the area were freaked out, including young Dave Anthony.

Speaker 2 But then things went back to normal. Like nothing happened.
Everything went by. And then everyone started walking the trails again.

Speaker 2 He was released from the halfway house he was living in. So when he did that, he was living in a halfway house and he went to live with his parents.

Speaker 2 Remember? You're going to be proud of him.

Speaker 3 Old blind bitch. Right.
And whoever the dad was.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Why would you? Okay.

Speaker 3 Got to go to the source.

Speaker 2 She's like, you can live here again, but you have to do ballet more.

Speaker 2 Put on this apron.

Speaker 2 He somehow found a way to pass as a normal, productive citizen. He took courses in computer printing at a trade school and graduated with a degree.
Then in spring, he went back to killing. In March,

Speaker 2 it's boring. Right? You get stuff done and then you're like, I got to get back to my hobby.

Speaker 3 This computer printing is really stressing me out.

Speaker 2 I got to relax.

Speaker 2 In March,

Speaker 2 23-year-old Barbara Schwartz was walking on Mount Tam when a thin athletic man walked up to Schwartz and her dog started started barking at him. He had dark hair and wore hiking boots.

Speaker 2 She, uh, he quickly just started stabbing her with his 10-inch knife. Fuck, ma'am.
She was stabbed 12 times. She collapsed and he ran off and she was dead.

Speaker 2 Now, the reason we know this is because this was all seen by a woman who was standing in the trees. Wait, what? Watching.
So, some woman just was sitting there standing in the window.

Speaker 2 Standing in the trees? I mean, look, everybody's a weirdo.

Speaker 2 That was a misprint in the fucking newspaper. I just promise you.

Speaker 3 What they didn't say is she had a wet nightgown on.

Speaker 3 Ma'am, are you alright?

Speaker 2 There haven't been women around here in 25 years.

Speaker 2 No woman on the tree.

Speaker 3 What a terrible story this is.

Speaker 2 And that's the tag on her podcast. What a terrible story.
What a terrible story. It's not a great one.

Speaker 2 I never thought I'd be reading this in in front of 400 people. This is not 400 people.

Speaker 2 Now that's your anxiety talking.

Speaker 2 So, right, seen by a woman in the trees. Unfortunately, she described

Speaker 2 Carpenter horribly, and the investigation would be misled for years because of her terrible description.

Speaker 2 Shocking. She's crazy.

Speaker 2 Other people in the area said they saw a man wearing glasses who looked about 40. That was Carpenter.
The knife was found days later. Could that woman have been like an egret or something?

Speaker 2 They were just like

Speaker 3 a bird standing in the forest.

Speaker 2 That's a terrible description.

Speaker 3 So, mustache, yes? I don't.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So the knife was found days later and a TV reporter handled it, destroying the fingerprints.

Speaker 2 No. Is this 1970?

Speaker 2 This is 79. The guy's like

Speaker 2 touching, touching. He's just like super into touching things.
What a story.

Speaker 3 They're going to love this across the bay.

Speaker 3 1979 is not that long ago. No.

Speaker 2 This isn't Jack the Rover.

Speaker 2 We totally had fingerprints figured out at that point.

Speaker 3 But other than that, just touch away.

Speaker 3 Whoever gets there first.

Speaker 2 Carpenter also lost his prison-issued glasses during the attack. And what's so crazy as a child from the sketches, I totally remember the glasses.
Yes.

Speaker 2 They're wearing them right now.

Speaker 2 I mean, weird time to bring up. This is my hero.

Speaker 2 So the next day he went to an optometrist,

Speaker 2 Barbara Schwartz optometrist, the woman he had killed, to get new glasses. No.
On purpose? No.

Speaker 2 No. Total just happen sense.
What the fuck?

Speaker 2 Now he had a very unique prescription. And had the optometrist, who was questioned by police, been told about his unique prescription,

Speaker 2 he probably wouldn't have been able to finger Carpenter right there And then,

Speaker 2 and they had the glasses because the glasses came off. So, the cops had the prescription, but they never thought to be like, What do you think about a 70-30?

Speaker 2 Oh my gosh. So, now again, people living around the area are totally freaked out,

Speaker 2 not going near Mount Tam again. And then, again, time goes by, and people start going back to Mount Tam.
The flowers are so pretty. It's hard to stay away.

Speaker 2 There's great trees, and there's a woman standing

Speaker 2 and a grit-like woman standing with a wet robe. Wet robe.
It's fine.

Speaker 2 So on October 15th, 26-year-old Ann Alderson was sitting alone watching the sunset. Don't do it.

Speaker 2 A witness saw her and also saw a weird 50-year-old man, but decided against warning her. Who will? The francophone.

Speaker 2 But I'm sure he led a fine life with just him and his bottle of whiskey. Just sitting there going,

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's horrifying.

Speaker 2 You would never forgive yourself. You were that person.
Of course not.

Speaker 2 It's awful.

Speaker 3 That's the thing:

Speaker 3 just be rude. Go up to people and be like, Hi, I know this makes me the weirdo, but there's a weirdo over there.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 You know, you make the call.

Speaker 2 Who you hate or run away from. But as a dude, as a dude, you walk over and go, Hey, there's a really weird guy right there.

Speaker 2 Come in close

Speaker 3 while I describe the guy.

Speaker 2 Can I drive you home?

Speaker 3 Let me drive you away from the crib.

Speaker 2 He's got curly hair and glasses and like gray pants and a maroon jacket.

Speaker 2 I totally understand why you wouldn't say it, but I also just, ugh.

Speaker 2 What are the fucking chances, man?

Speaker 2 Like, I see a weirdo multiple times a day. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Looking in the mirror.

Speaker 2 Okay, so

Speaker 2 Anne was in escalation.

Speaker 2 She was raped and then allowed to dress again and then shot with a single bullet through the head.

Speaker 2 He took her right earring and then propped her up to make it look like she was sitting against a rock. She also appeared to have been shot while begging for her life.

Speaker 2 And he was just getting rolling. Shauna May was supposed to meet friends on November 28th in Point Reyes National Seashore to go hiking.
She was found two days later.

Speaker 2 She was nude and had been raped and bound with picture frame wire, shot three times in the head and dumped into a trench. Right besides her body was a second young woman, 22-year-old Diane O'Connell.

Speaker 2 She had also gone missing, uh, this time

Speaker 2 while hiking with friends. What, what, what, what, what? Oh, this is the worst.
One of her friends

Speaker 2 was faster and got ahead of her on the path,

Speaker 2 and her other friend.

Speaker 2 Am I wrong? She was kind of cunt. You're not wrong.

Speaker 2 You're not wrong. You're not.
I had total empathy for that person. I was like, man, she just wanted to get at the top.

Speaker 2 No, congratulations.

Speaker 3 You're up there.

Speaker 2 We're talking about like my new boy I'm dating. And you're just like, bye-bye.
Bye.

Speaker 2 Fuck you.

Speaker 3 Watch my calves.

Speaker 2 R-E-I.

Speaker 2 Fuck you. Okay.

Speaker 2 Then what about her other friend who was slower that was behind her? Oh, no.

Speaker 2 Who's the cunt now?

Speaker 3 I can't choose anymore. There's so so many to pick from.

Speaker 2 It's a weird thing to go hiking with your friends and then you all split up.

Speaker 3 We don't do that. That's why I don't hike.

Speaker 2 Or have friends.

Speaker 2 It's not worth it.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 she also disappeared.

Speaker 2 Her friends saw nothing because they were so far ahead and behind.

Speaker 3 So either friend,

Speaker 3 it was as if they were all going and then the middle of the front.

Speaker 2 And they got to the top and they're like, where is she?

Speaker 3 That's horrifying.

Speaker 2 Yoink, like off the trail.

Speaker 3 And it was supposed to be horrifying. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Diana had been shot twice in the head. A nearby, a hiker nearby heard all the shots and it appears Carpenter had killed them, both the girls at the same time.

Speaker 2 Wait, the, the, so the two girls are sitting side by side in a trench and he had

Speaker 2 killed them both at once. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Um

Speaker 2 uh Diana had also been strangled and raped. The police concluded one of the women had interrupted Carpenter attacking the other woman, So he killed them both.
Yep.

Speaker 3 Just really quick,

Speaker 3 I wish I could, we had a slideshow of Mount Tam right now because it is the most gorgeous

Speaker 2 place. It's so beautiful.
The place where they take all the pictures of San Francisco where you of the Golden Gate Bridge and then you see San Francisco behind it, that's Mount Tam. Yeah.
Wow.

Speaker 3 It's got redwood trees. It's like, it's got, it's the most,

Speaker 3 for natural,

Speaker 3 you know, whatever wonder. I mean, it's just the most incredible.
And like, we would go on field trips there all the time in grammar school.

Speaker 2 Mountain bikes were invented there. Yeah, really? So, yeah, mountain bikes are invented.

Speaker 3 So, the idea that this man is that fucking like angry that he's going to like God's most perfect place and fucking hiding and picking people off.

Speaker 2 And we all were just like, hey, you want to go to Mount Tam for the day? And you would just go walking and hiking out.

Speaker 2 Like, everybody would just be like Mount Tam was just, you'd go there for the day and just walk around. Yeah.
Yeah. Crazy.
It's crazy. Yeah.
It's scary.

Speaker 2 Okay. So that same day, two more bodies were found a half mile away.
Jesus. Most had been shot in the head.

Speaker 3 What the fuck? He's in his berserker mode. Yeah.

Speaker 2 He's going crazy. Creep up bananas, I think they call it in court.

Speaker 2 You're a circuit court judge?

Speaker 2 I am a circuit court judge.

Speaker 2 This was my case.

Speaker 2 This might be unethical.

Speaker 2 But for the first time, one of them was was male. Richard Stowers was 18.
His fiancé, Cynthia Moreland, was 18. Also, they had been missing for quite some time since October 11th.

Speaker 2 Ballistic now tied the murders together, and suddenly everyone realized there was a serial killer on the loose on Mount Tam. Police were told to avoid the area alone.

Speaker 2 Wait, what?

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's I have a problem with that one. Wait, police were told to.

Speaker 2 There we go. But also,

Speaker 2 also, I assume police also.

Speaker 2 You know what? I just want to say this. Police are people.

Speaker 3 There's all these hiking cops that are like, I got to go up there, man.

Speaker 3 No, please. I have to warn you.

Speaker 2 But also, like,

Speaker 2 they just found two

Speaker 2 people who were killed together. And then another girl who was with two other of her friends.
So not even alone.

Speaker 3 No, but his system is not going to help.

Speaker 2 Also, he has a gun. Like, if it's like a knife, one of you can get like skedaddled.
But, like, if there's a gun, you're both fucked. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So the press named him the trailside killer. Police, local police reached out to the FBI for help.
Okay. The FBI came up with a profile.

Speaker 2 It said he was shy, reclusive, and probably had a speech impediment.

Speaker 2 And was unsure of himself in social situations. He had no victim type.
It was about opportunity. He was like a spider waiting for a fly to come to his web.

Speaker 2 He was white, intelligent, blue-collar, and had been in prison. prison.
He would have also had a, uh,

Speaker 2 oh boy, that's a, that's a word that corrected itself on this thing.

Speaker 2 It would have would have had two or three boyhood indicators of starting a fire, bedwetting, and animal cruelty. Yes.
So he had two of the three.

Speaker 2 The

Speaker 2 profiler concluded he had a speech impediment because of the locations of the attacks, quote, he has some kind of defect that really bothers him.

Speaker 2 How do they know they're so good? Because they're so good. When I read, I was just like, how do you do that?

Speaker 3 They just knew it.

Speaker 2 They were like sitting at a table across from him and they were like,

Speaker 2 tell us about yourself.

Speaker 3 Yeah, that's what they do. They just interview all the criminals that come through on that like high level.
There's like a whole department at the FBI that's just all about it.

Speaker 2 And it's like, because he's killing in the woods, you're like, well, the guy's got a list.

Speaker 2 Isn't that awesome? Isn't that amazing? Amazing.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 the FBI guy did this and the local cop like, he's a partier. He likes going on on boats.
Like, it was totally not even remotely close. He's my brother-in-law.
I'm positive. Wears a backwards hat.

Speaker 2 Listen to a lot of Sammy Hagar. He's got a truck, boat, truck.

Speaker 2 On March

Speaker 2 29th, 1981, Ellen Marie Hansen and Stephen Hertel, students at UC Davis, were hiking in Santa Cruz. Now, this is about 80 miles south of Mount Tam.

Speaker 2 Carpenter walked up to them and threatened them with a gun, demanding Ellen let him rape her. She was not down with the plan.

Speaker 2 Steve begged to be let go, and then Carpenter shot Ellen point-blank twice in the head. Steve ran away, and he was shot in the neck, but he did not die.
Wow.

Speaker 2 Steve gave police a great description of Carpenter, unlike the fucking woman in the woods who was like, He looks like a hawk.

Speaker 3 Oh, no. She had seen someone be stabbed 12 times.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 fuck it up. She squint.

Speaker 3 And then you can't get anybody's facial features correct.

Speaker 2 And she was in a tree the whole fucking time.

Speaker 2 Oh, did I not mention she had grown into the tree? Oh. Yeah, she was part of the tree.

Speaker 3 Oh, she was some kind of an orc thing.

Speaker 3 Was she from Middle Earth?

Speaker 2 She was an ant.

Speaker 2 Oh, is it ants? I got deep into it.

Speaker 2 Others came forward and said they had seen Carpenter in the area and fleeing in a foreign car. Someone said the foreign car was a fiat, which is hilarious because it's a very popular marina.

Speaker 2 Do you remember that? Fiats. Yeah.

Speaker 2 A composite was placed in newspapers and were on TVs, right? So now they have his drawing out there. It's running everywhere.

Speaker 2 The woman then called police and said she had met that man on a cruise to Japan 26 years earlier.

Speaker 3 And that was the woman in the forest.

Speaker 3 You doubted her, but she came back hard.

Speaker 2 She's back,

Speaker 3 she's making right

Speaker 2 on her wrong.

Speaker 2 And she said that the man had been bothering her and her daughter with inappropriate behavior, and he had a stutter, and he was a ship's purser.

Speaker 3 And it was my dad.

Speaker 2 And he used to be a fireman. What?

Speaker 2 Mr. Karen Karen.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 she had his signature in a book, which she still had. Why did that happen? How did that happen?

Speaker 3 They used to love to get serial killer signatures before

Speaker 3 they really kicked it off.

Speaker 3 That was a thing in the 60s.

Speaker 2 This is the point when you're writing a script and you go, let's just hustle it along.

Speaker 2 What about a lady on a Chinese cruise that met the guy 26 or yeah, yeah, yeah, people don't go after Chinese anymore.

Speaker 3 No, no, no, no, just have him do it.

Speaker 2 Okay, but there were a lot of men named David Carpenter in Northern California. So Carpenter then grew a beard.
On May 2nd, Heather Roxanne Skaggs told her boyfriend, she's 20.

Speaker 2 What's going on over there?

Speaker 2 Oh, I thought you guys were up to something. Oh, I'm ANL, man.
I saw it in the corner of my eye. I don't know.
You were looking at each other. Okay.

Speaker 3 Yeah, we're going to jump on your back.

Speaker 2 But not right now.

Speaker 3 We're planning it for later.

Speaker 2 Don't worry about it.

Speaker 2 I'm going to move my chair.

Speaker 2 So, Heather Roxanne Skaggs, 20, tells her boyfriend she's going to see David Carpenter to buy a used car.

Speaker 2 She was a student at a place where Carpenter taught people how to use computer typesetting machines. What the fuck kind of crazy time is this?

Speaker 2 Before leaving, she gave her boyfriend the number and that address of David Carpenter and when she expected to return. Who the fuck does that? Unless they're creeped out by the guy, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 I mean, you're never like.

Speaker 2 Here's all the information of this person you're going to meet. She did not return.

Speaker 2 The boyfriend went and confronted Carpenter, which is fucking ballsy beyond words. Except for him.
Did you kill my girlfriend?

Speaker 2 Carpenter said she had never come, and then the boyfriend called police. Carpenter's name raised a flag, as did Heather being Lord, and Carpenter looked exactly like the composite drawing.

Speaker 2 Police then contacted his parole officer, who immediately realized Carpenter fit into everything police were saying. But just then, when they called on the phone.
Not at any point earlier.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. You're talking about murdering David? Please!

Speaker 2 He kept it. Fuck, that guy creeps me out.

Speaker 2 Shoot, you know what? I should have thought of this before. I'm sorry.
I stopped watching the news because it depresses me, but now I realize. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 You know, he came in Wednesday covered in blood, and I was like, this seems.

Speaker 3 But then I had my book club, and I don't know it all just kind of slipped my mind

Speaker 2 I don't care about anything anymore

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 2 so unfortunately

Speaker 2 this is where it's fucked up unfortunately

Speaker 2 I mean this is where government records you're like really guys so unfortunately Carpenter had not shown up in the records of released inmates when they initially looked due to a technicality

Speaker 2 he'd been released by California prisons to serve a federal sentence. So he was technically in federal custody.
So they didn't count him as a released prisoner.

Speaker 2 So they could have, with the records, found him. Because that first woman he killed, he left his prison issue glasses, and they could have tracked him down right there.

Speaker 3 This is just like a Three's company I saw once.

Speaker 2 This insane misunderstanding.

Speaker 3 Except for.

Speaker 2 Oh, you ropers.

Speaker 2 Come on, I come on us.

Speaker 2 So the multi-agency task force started following him. Then one day they saw him carrying a bag, and they approached him, and they told him he was under arrest.

Speaker 2 And at first, he was confused, and then he said, please don't hurt me.

Speaker 3 I bet they punched him right in the face.

Speaker 2 The pieces quickly fell into place.

Speaker 2 There was tons of evidence. Everyone

Speaker 2 who saw him was brought in to identify him. Stephen Hurdle, who had been shot in the neck, ID'd him out of a lineup.
Six out of seven witnesses did the same.

Speaker 2 Carpenter was formally charged in the murder and attempted murder in Santa Cruz.

Speaker 2 At his arraignment, he stuttered so badly he had a difficult time answering the judges' questions, which was simply to agree that his name was as stated.

Speaker 2 Heather Scogg's body was found a couple of weeks later. His total number of murder victims was nine.
He was tried in San Diego because of you could not do it in Marin.

Speaker 2 He was convicted and sentenced to to die in the gas chamber and he was he's still on death row in San Quentin. Is he still alive? He's still alive.

Speaker 2 And he's our next guest. Everyone,

Speaker 2 Davey, get out here.

Speaker 2 Get out here.

Speaker 2 You fucking scamp. You son of a bitch.

Speaker 2 What is your problem?

Speaker 2 Fuck.

Speaker 2 So that's fucked up. That was

Speaker 2 between that one and the, I mean, I'm sure you guys had the Richard Ramirez. Were you here then? That was fucking terrifying.
Yeah, Avie. I've never heard that one before.
That was amazing.

Speaker 2 But no one knows about that.

Speaker 2 I've never heard of it. Do you want to hear something really weird?

Speaker 2 When the Hillside Stranglers were, you know, out in L.A., I was like, how the fuck can they call him that? We got our trailside time. Like, I literally had a moment of, you can't do that.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 It's our thing.

Speaker 2 It's your property. It's your property.
But yeah, that, that was like, like, so for like a year and a half, we didn't go near the place that we all hung out on. That's cool.

Speaker 2 Because Because we were terrified of being. We drank a lot less beer that summer.

Speaker 2 Well, I mean,

Speaker 2 a year and a half is a.

Speaker 2 What?

Speaker 2 Some long summer.

Speaker 2 That's bananas. I've never heard of that before.

Speaker 1 Okay, we're back. dealing with true crime in a in a live show format.
In a live and inappropriate format. Here we are.
Yeah. So that's Dave's story.
Do we have any case updates for this one?

Speaker 1 Oh, we do. So a minor update.
David Carpenter is 94 years old and remains on death row in San Quentin State Prison. Isn't that, but now he's one of the oldest inmates there.

Speaker 1 So crazy. I mean,

Speaker 1 yeah, the fact that you can last that long in prison, because I do think people talk about how prison kind of just ages you quickly for obvious reasons. I mean, is he thriving in there?

Speaker 1 That would be terrifying.

Speaker 1 It's just so wild. Just the whole, and, and this man like terrorized the entire, all of Northern California for a long time.
So it's, he truly was a zodiac type for, yeah, for everybody.

Speaker 1 And like listening to that story and like he got away with so much for so long. Yes.

Speaker 1 And how frustrating, like all those stories from the 70s and 80s always are where it's like, you know, they got out of prison in nine months. They didn't serve their full sentence.
They got out.

Speaker 1 They got away with it. It's just,

Speaker 1 and also his whole kind of plan where he is up in this place, you know, like, especially like, I always just imagine Mount Tam, but that idea that it's just like you are basically, it's 19, say, 77, and you're just kind of out in the wilderness that all these people enjoy and go to every single day.

Speaker 1 Like it's a real thing up there. And you're just hiding out, waiting to be a monster.
Totally. That, like,

Speaker 1 yeah, it's just worst case scenario in the serial killer kind of story world. He's horrifying.
All right, now let's get into your story. This one is a classic and it's epic.
This is Karen's story.

Speaker 1 It's the Wineville Chicken Coop Murders.

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Goodbye.

Speaker 3 Well, I chose to, I wanted to do someone,

Speaker 3 I wanted to do someone really local. And so I Googled Beverly Center Serial Killer as it's as it

Speaker 3 was my dream.

Speaker 2 I just decided to shoot for the stars.

Speaker 2 That's what I wanted.

Speaker 2 You can't. It's just a guy stock in the Armani store.
Yes.

Speaker 3 He's just pulling a piano wire around guys that come out of the Armani store.

Speaker 2 Too much cologne.

Speaker 3 There isn't one.

Speaker 2 There isn't one. I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 I just thought maybe if there was like it was an old location of something from old Los Angeles, whatever.

Speaker 3 So, but then I remembered one that's semi-local and really awesome: are the Wineville chicken coop murders. Do you guys know those?

Speaker 3 It's what the Clinice Wood movie The Changeling was based on.

Speaker 3 If you don't know if you saw that or not, let me reenact Angelina Jolie's star turn as playing Christine Collins in The Changeling. My son!

Speaker 2 That was it. She did that.
Oh, that's all right.

Speaker 3 That's all right. Don't clap.

Speaker 3 It was much too loud. But that's exactly how she did it in the movie 50 times.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Can we get the My Son for you again?

Speaker 2 Can we hear that four more times?

Speaker 2 She was in that movie. I remember watching it and we're going, she's distractingly beautiful.

Speaker 3 We were like, why would she be?

Speaker 2 You're like, nothing bad ever happened. No, nothing bad ever happens to this person.
She's a person.

Speaker 2 The woman who was the mother wasn't that hot. Like, it wasn't like

Speaker 2 a hot mom. Yeah,

Speaker 2 she was not a hot mom. No.
And that's all you wanted.

Speaker 2 So when you hear the...

Speaker 3 He didn't say it like it was hot.

Speaker 2 But when you hear this story,

Speaker 2 at the end of the story, you'll think, oh, I wish the mom had been hotter. But go ahead.

Speaker 3 After you hear about this horrible child murder and death,

Speaker 3 you're going to be like, is the mom an eight or above you know because if this if we're in a butterface situation

Speaker 2 you know what i mean turn this bug out i just shame the out of her the only way we could have sympathy for her is if she was angelina joely hot i just

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 3 there is a book by a man named anthony flacco uh called the road out of hell sanford clark and the true story of the wineville chicken murders it's got very good reviews on amazon i don't have time to read it but if you want to

Speaker 2 if you're looking for facts Do you like murders or chickens? Yeah.

Speaker 3 Chickens are murdered every day in this country.

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no.

Speaker 3 This isn't my vegan podcast festival.

Speaker 3 This is just to give you a sense. This was such a horrible crime and such a stain on the community that Wineville permanently changed its name.
It's now called Mira Loma.

Speaker 2 Oh, shit.

Speaker 3 That's how huge this was and bad it was. It was

Speaker 3 1926.

Speaker 2 Changed all the signs and and everything.

Speaker 3 Yo, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 The two signs they have.

Speaker 3 They use the same letters. I just kind of rearranged them into Maraloma.

Speaker 2 What can we turn this into? Can we have a we need a town with a

Speaker 2 flip the W upside down?

Speaker 2 A mirror.

Speaker 3 Wait.

Speaker 3 No, is it?

Speaker 3 Yep, yep, it's just upside down, Wandaville.

Speaker 3 I can see it right here.

Speaker 3 This is great.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 3 Gordon Northcott was 17 years old when he moved to Los Angeles from Canada with his parents. And when he was 19, he asked his dad to buy him a chicken ranch in Wineville.

Speaker 2 As you do when you're 19. Because you're like,

Speaker 2 how am I punk rock? Chickens.

Speaker 3 That's how I'm going to do it. I'll feed them and water them,

Speaker 2 take care of the land.

Speaker 3 So two years later, he went back up to Canada and convinced his sister who still lived there to let him take her son, his 13-year-old nephew, Sanford Clark, back down to California to help him work on the chicken ranch and raise the chickens.

Speaker 2 What?

Speaker 2 Yeah. Like, hey, I need some labor.
What's your kid doing? Yes.

Speaker 3 It was the 20s, and so it was kind of common for young boys to have jobs and work and help the family.

Speaker 2 In any other situation, when your uncle isn't a fucking creep-ass murderer, it would be like good for the kid right but like but they're everyone's in a while everyone's in a blue yeah so is that one time

Speaker 3 um as i wrote here the problem was gordon northcote was the bad kind of uncle oh no

Speaker 3 oh get used to it this is dark as

Speaker 2 that was an uncle

Speaker 3 brace yourself uh as a teen in canada he was accused of molesting a very young boy but his mother claimed that he was innocent and would never be able to do anything like that.

Speaker 3 So the police did not charge him.

Speaker 2 Oh,

Speaker 2 God, what? Mommy was like, nope.

Speaker 3 I mean,

Speaker 3 which, you know, I used to be very bitter that my mother didn't participate in my life enough. Like, she'd come to my plays and stuff, and she was never at like a softball game.

Speaker 3 And then I read this story of Gordon and his mother, and I'm like, I think it's for the best.

Speaker 3 The rest of the family knew that he was volatile, and he he once even beat up his own father.

Speaker 2 Jesus. And for that, he got a chicken ranch.
You know what? I get that.

Speaker 2 That's something I get.

Speaker 3 I mean, no, I know.

Speaker 3 His father actually ended up spending the back half of his life in an insane asylum. So the family had a lot of mental illness and a lot of criminals.

Speaker 3 He had two, Gordon had two uncles that were also in San Quentin. So not the greatest group from Canada.

Speaker 3 Usually, you people are so lovely and polite with your delicious chocolate, but this guy was a fucking lunatic.

Speaker 3 All right.

Speaker 3 So he brought Sanford back down to work on the chicken ranch and immediately began abusing and raping him.

Speaker 3 They would also, together, he would make Sanford drive into Los Angeles with him.

Speaker 3 And so then they would drive around neighborhoods and he would ask boys if they needed extra money, if they wanted to take a job, if they needed extra money.

Speaker 3 And the boys would get in the car because Sanford, the young young boy, was already in the car. No, no.

Speaker 3 Yeah, this was back, this was before Stranger Danger wasn't even on anyone's mind. They were like, yay, strangers back then.

Speaker 2 Go meet yourself a stranger, young America, was the posters on every bus stop. All right.

Speaker 3 So he did that so much that he realized he would go into either Riverside County or LA and pick up boys, molest them, attack them, and then bring them back to their neighborhood. Whoa.

Speaker 2 And he just dropped them off. Catch a release.
Yes.

Speaker 3 So, but he

Speaker 2 slowly started to

Speaker 3 realize that that was incredibly dangerous. And that's when, which is how it always goes with serial killers.

Speaker 2 It always is.

Speaker 3 That's when it escalates.

Speaker 2 Get rid of the evidence.

Speaker 2 Don't leave a fucking witness. Yeah.

Speaker 3 So he also did a thing where he put a help wanted out in the paper asking

Speaker 3 young boys to come and work on his chicken ramp.

Speaker 2 And no one was like, uh, that's a fucking issue. Yeah.

Speaker 3 Everyone's like, no, I think young boys love chickens.

Speaker 2 I think it would be, it's probably bad. Hey, dad, there's a man with a bunch of chickens.
Can I go? Go on, son. Yippee.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I wrote here like a sort of murder postmates.

Speaker 2 That's awful. Boo, boo, Karen.

Speaker 2 Well, it's just, it's just Craigslist.

Speaker 2 Karen's turning on the audience till this other.

Speaker 3 Oh, it's how I feel my most comfortable.

Speaker 3 So he did this for two years. Jesus.
And boys were disappearing without a trace. So

Speaker 2 do we know how many boys?

Speaker 3 Well, yes, eventually.

Speaker 3 But they don't know like the exact number because he was so fucking crazy that when he finally went to court, he kept admitting to all the murders, then saying he didn't do it, then saying he did four, then saying he did 50.

Speaker 3 And the problem was he was so incredibly thorough.

Speaker 3 What he did was he would

Speaker 3 kill them, take their bodies out to the desert and burn them, and then take the bones from whatever, wherever he burned them, and then dispose of them on the ranch.

Speaker 3 So they had to, when the cops were finally raided the ranch and were looking, they were just fine, they were having to piece together tiny shards of bone from all different people.

Speaker 3 This thing is a fucking crazy nightmare. There's tons of buttons out in the lobby if you need any.
Yeah,

Speaker 2 I was going to say I was about to release some balloons.

Speaker 2 I'm not going to do that now.

Speaker 3 So they found a decapitated

Speaker 3 teenager's body in a burlap sack on the side of the road in La Puente.

Speaker 2 Why did he leave him there?

Speaker 2 Why did he leave a decapitated boy?

Speaker 3 They think that happened because he

Speaker 3 found him, attacked him, killed him in all one spot, and then decapitated him thinking if they don't have the head, they won't ever find out who it is.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah, interesting. Um,

Speaker 2 it's crazy, though, considering how thorough he is. Yeah, escalating.

Speaker 3 Well, this was his first one, so you know, he's just getting warmed up. Okay, so don't you worry.
Um, so then in March, that's when he, um, Walter Collins was going to the movies.

Speaker 3 His mom had given him some money. She went to work.
He was walking down to the movies, and he pulled his old, do you want to, do you need extra money thing? Yeah, chickens get in the car, and he did.

Speaker 3 So he disappeared, um, like without a trace. And because his mom was coming back from work like really soon.
She was, it wasn't like some long thing that he was by himself.

Speaker 3 And that story, his disappearance, and the manhunt that happened after that was just blew up. It was huge and it was a nationwide story.

Speaker 3 Then in May, two brothers, Lewis and Nelson Winslow, age 10 and 12, disappeared on their walk home from their model yacht club meeting in Pomona.

Speaker 2 Man, it was a great meeting. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Different yachts that were discussed.

Speaker 3 When you think of yacht clubs, you think Kimona.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You know?

Speaker 2 You do. Yeah.

Speaker 3 For sure. The rich, the elite.

Speaker 3 So, Walter Collins, the Walter Collins story is the one that gets focused on in the changeling.

Speaker 3 And it is the most fascinating because these things that happen in it are so fucking crazy, aside from the kidnapping and murder itself.

Speaker 3 So basically, the LAPD at this same time was under investigation for mass corruption. So they were already had really bad press.
They were, you know, they were really doing badly.

Speaker 3 And then Walter Collins' disappearance, it was five months, and they still hadn't found him or any trace. They had no clues whatsoever.

Speaker 2 So this is when

Speaker 2 the mayor and the police chief were selling. You could buy to become a cop.
And once you were a cop, then you could buy your way up.

Speaker 2 so there were no like actual guys who were doing law enforcement you just paid and then you become a detective yeah now they pay you thirty thousand dollars a year and everyone's happy

Speaker 2 what just happened sorry

Speaker 2 go ahead and take it

Speaker 3 um but yeah there were well actually you know what's funny is that's how my my mother's great-grandfather i don't know how many far away that is from me but that's how he got into the oakland police department Yeah, he's a super crooked cop.

Speaker 3 I come from a long line of crooked cops.

Speaker 3 Well, yeah, they were just, they were already doing bad. So, but this is now this is an example of the LAPD.
Like, they already, you know, they've had a hard time with it.

Speaker 3 They've done, they've done, they've mishandled many, many things, as we all know. This one is unbelievable.
So, after five months, they don't have a body, they don't have clues, they have nothing.

Speaker 3 So, they get a phone call that they have found a boy in DeKalb, Illinois, who is claiming to be Walter Collins. Okay, we're in.
So they're like, this is amazing.

Speaker 3 So they're, they make, do phone calls and they, so the police department orchestrates this huge press conference at the train station when he's going to show up and it's going to be like, and the happy reunion and the cops are the ones that did it.

Speaker 3 So when the boy walks off, everyone's seen the movie, or if you have the boy walks off the train and Christine Collins is standing there and she's like, that's not my son

Speaker 3 because it wasn't her son.

Speaker 2 But he was in Illinois.

Speaker 3 So the cop says, why don't you take him home and try him out for a couple weeks?

Speaker 2 She's like,

Speaker 2 what does that even mean? Yeah, it's so crazy.

Speaker 3 What it's basically saying is politics is more important than anything. Move out of the picture for a while.

Speaker 2 Maybe women are so crazy. No, they're like,

Speaker 2 but they must have been like, look, no, no, he's not your boy. We need this one.

Speaker 2 We need a win. What's the diff, man? Just take one.
Please, the LA Weekly's here. We're going to get our picture in every paper.
Meanwhile, where did that boy come from? Like,

Speaker 2 I tell you. Well, here we go.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 3 of course, three weeks later, when she's living in a house with a boy who's pretending to be her son, which can you imagine how creepy that is?

Speaker 3 He's pretending and he won't drop it. And she's sitting in the other room, like, um,

Speaker 3 okay.

Speaker 2 Uh,

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 2 she goes back-you future killer, yeah, in the house, also.

Speaker 3 He's up to no good. So, she goes back to Captain J.J.
Jones, who's the man in charge at the time, J.J., yeah,

Speaker 3 and she has Walter's dental records. She has signed affidavits from witnesses who have met the son and say, This is not Walter Collins.
Um, she's got a big stack of evidence, it's not him. And so, um,

Speaker 3 the police chief did what any good civil servant would do in a situation like that. He threw her in a mental institution.

Speaker 2 Well, she was cuckoo. I mean,

Speaker 2 for justice.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 3 finally, they get it out.

Speaker 3 And this, the only reason that any of this got brought to light is because she, when Walter first went missing, there was this,

Speaker 3 it's a... priest or he was like a pastor and I'm not going to be able to say his name because it's crazy.
It looks like someone had a stroke as they were typing on murderpedia.

Speaker 3 It's like that's not Polish and it's not Czech. Like, there's a lot of V's and E's and Z's.
So, I was like, I'm not even going to cut and paste that.

Speaker 3 That's how much I can't handle that name.

Speaker 2 I support that.

Speaker 3 But he basically was the one that got it on all the radio shows and stuff. Like, on, he made it because he had a every Sunday, he had a radio show.

Speaker 3 And so he talked about finding Walter Collins all the time. So then, when she was put into the mental institution, he was like advocating for her and trying to get her out.

Speaker 3 So, eventually, they get out of the boy

Speaker 3 that he had run away from home because he had a really mean stepmother. And he had been on the road for like three weeks by himself, a nine-year-old kid.
And he was somewhere.

Speaker 3 There was like basically, he was in a restaurant in DeKalb. And

Speaker 3 like an old hobo that was in the restaurant with him was like, you look like that boy that's missing in California.

Speaker 3 And then the little boy hears California and goes, I'm going to go to Cal, I'm going to say I'm him and go to California and meet Tom Mix, my favorite cowboy from the movies.

Speaker 3 And so he tells the guy, I am Walter Collins. And so he calls the cops and they, Christine paid for his train ticket to Tom Os.

Speaker 2 He's smarter than all of us. Yes, for sure.

Speaker 2 The kid got what he wanted. Everyone else is fucked, right? Yeah, yes.

Speaker 2 Did he meet the cowboy?

Speaker 3 He got to be in four Tom Mix films.

Speaker 2 Oh.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 Karen, we believed you.

Speaker 2 He really did believe me. I believed you.
You did?

Speaker 2 Karen's always lying.

Speaker 3 Now I want to lie more.

Speaker 2 Fucking thing.

Speaker 3 All right. So

Speaker 3 anyway, simultaneously,

Speaker 3 Sanford Clark's sister, Jesse, had been getting letters from him, but not that often. He told her he would write her all the time, but he wasn't writing her all the time.

Speaker 3 And the things that he was writing in the letters did not sound like him at all. It was like very vague information.
He wouldn't say, like, if he was okay.

Speaker 3 It was, so she was getting worried up in Canada. So she decided, I'm going to go down and pay them a visit.
And when she shows up, she's like, this is bad news. Something is terribly wrong.

Speaker 2 Because it smelled like dead boy everywhere.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 There was kind of.

Speaker 2 Imagine how fucked up the place must have been if he's scattering boy bones.

Speaker 3 I mean, well, no, it's it's yeah, it's gonna be like a Texas chainsaw massacre-esque situation inside inside the house.

Speaker 3 She was horrified by their house living conditions and by the fact that clearly this, at this time, probably 14-year-old boy was like made to work like hard labor every day and looked terrible, like was shaken and whatever.

Speaker 3 So she, one night when the bad uncle was asleep, she gets him to tell her what's going on. And the story that he tells her is so horrifying, she cannot believe it.
But they realize

Speaker 3 they can't do anything while she's still there because he'll probably just kill both of them. So she acted like nothing happened.
She didn't know anything. Then she went back to Canada and

Speaker 3 they went to the American consulate.

Speaker 2 Did she take the boy with her? No.

Speaker 3 No.

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 3 this was the two of their, it was Jesse and Sanford's plan that they couldn't act like anything happened because she would kill them.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 2 But why?

Speaker 3 I can't justify her choices.

Speaker 3 Karen. I wish I could.
I believe in them. Karen, god damn it.

Speaker 2 Tell us.

Speaker 3 I know. So

Speaker 3 I wish I could. So

Speaker 3 they contact the American Consulate. The American Consulate calls the LAPD.

Speaker 3 Something else comes up about immigration. So they end up sending two immigration officers out to the ranch.

Speaker 3 And as they are heading out, it's a big long driveway to get to the house. So Sanford, so Gordon sees the cars coming and tells Sanford, stall them.
I'm running for the tree line.

Speaker 3 And if you don't stall them, I'll shoot you from the tree line. And then he takes off running and he ends up getting, escaping, um, meeting up with his mother and escaping to Canada.

Speaker 3 Then the cops get Sanford and they're holding him, and he starts telling them everything. And he, I mean, the stories are horrifying.
It's little boys held in chicken coops,

Speaker 3 him making Sanford either kill the little boys with him

Speaker 3 or do it himself so that he would also be complicit and not tell. So basically, he had this little boy convinced that if he said anything, he was the one that was going to go to jail.

Speaker 3 It's super crazy.

Speaker 2 We have an audience. This is so fucked up.

Speaker 2 I just realized. Well, this, this is, I mean, what are we going to do?

Speaker 2 This is what we do. No, I know.

Speaker 3 They know.

Speaker 3 They're just making noises.

Speaker 2 Sometimes they laugh at home, and sometimes they just groan and they fall on the floor. Fuck you guys.

Speaker 2 You just have to deal with all of it.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 3 when the police raided the farm, they found axes covered in blood and farm equipment that was coated in blood and human hair.

Speaker 3 There were bone fragments in several shallow graves around the ranch, and almost all of them were linked to male children.

Speaker 3 It was later proven that the unidentified Mexican boy whose head had been chopped off was one of Northcott's first victims, and police later identified him as Alvin Gothia.

Speaker 3 Sanford testified that Gordon made him burn the head and crush the skull and scatter the bones.

Speaker 3 Inside the house, they found a book that was believed to belong to the Winslow brothers and several letters the boys tried to write to their parents, which is a horrifying idea that he's keeping them long enough that he's going in and going, like, you can write a letter to your parents if you want to.

Speaker 3 While nothing of Walter Collins was discovered, Sanford Clark remained adamant that he had been one of the boys kept hostage on the farm. And according to the,

Speaker 3 oh, sorry, the police could only have enough evidence to prove three murders, which were the Winslow Brothers and Alvin Gothia. But they believe at one point, Gordon admitted to 20.

Speaker 3 They believe that there could be many, many more because he basically.

Speaker 2 Well, how long did this go on? For two years. I mean, there's tons more.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And they just can't, it's, they're, they're they're scattered it's like they basically built it for to hide bodies this ranch it's crazy um so

Speaker 2 i know right

Speaker 2 uh

Speaker 3 so his mother sarah was convicted of killing walter collins so it turns out when they go up to extradite him from canada he's caught with his mother and the mother says i killed Walter Collins and I killed a bunch of guys.

Speaker 3 That's a great mom.

Speaker 3 Yes, it turns out it's a mom that cares about her kids it's a mom who is willing to participate right um she

Speaker 2 we're saying the same thing right she yes i think so

Speaker 2 she this is why i can't be a mom i'd be like take this psycho

Speaker 3 you know what you do you're murdering out in the chicken coop i don't want to be a partner no i will not take the blame

Speaker 3 no she she was one of the ones who said who encouraged him to kill his victims. She was there from the beginning.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 3 This is what, according to Sanford,

Speaker 3 she was in from the beginning and was participating the whole time. When they were on trial, she came out and said that she and Gordon were lovers.

Speaker 3 She said that Gordon was the incestuous son of her husband and her daughter.

Speaker 3 I mean, it was the apparently the trial was in total insanity and total chaos. And every day there were like different horrifying headlines.

Speaker 3 And she ended up, she was sentenced to life imprisonment, but she was paroled after 12 years.

Speaker 2 Let's get her back. What? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Fucking.

Speaker 3 It was what I thought was proper at the time.

Speaker 3 That was a joke where I'm the judge now.

Speaker 2 I feel like my story was like an explosion of glitter compared to yours.

Speaker 2 That's right.

Speaker 3 During his trial, Gordon demanded to represent himself. So his two lawyers quit, and then he cross-examined himself.

Speaker 2 Oh my God.

Speaker 3 Because he's insane.

Speaker 2 And probably like grill at himself. Why did you kill the boys? I didn't kill the boys.

Speaker 3 He was found guilty, and he was hanged at San Quentin in February of 1929.

Speaker 2 Oh, they got that done fast. Hang, yeah.

Speaker 3 Yeah, they were like, goodbye.

Speaker 3 And as we've all seen, but Walter Collins' mother did go to San Quentin on the day he was being hanged to beg him to please tell her if he killed her son or not.

Speaker 3 And he fucked with her until they put the bag on his head and walked him up the stairs. So she believed for the rest of her life there was a possibility that her son was alive.

Speaker 2 Poor baby.

Speaker 3 I decided to end on the downest note I possibly could.

Speaker 2 You know what?

Speaker 2 He went out strong. Right?

Speaker 2 That strongest. He got a little bit of credit.

Speaker 2 He went out. He's like, you know what? I'm going to stay true to myself.

Speaker 2 I'm a fucking total asshole. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm taking it all the way to the chair. Kanye over here.

Speaker 3 What's yours, Georgia? Okay, that was great.

Speaker 2 Is great the right word?

Speaker 1 Okay, we are back in. Oh, what a fucking, what a, like, it sounds like a Stephen King book, you know? It's every parent's nightmare.
It is the wildest. Like, no, no, we're not going to look into this.

Speaker 1 We're going to put a woman into a mental institution instead of just trying to help her in any way. You insisting that that is not your son and other people agreeing with you.
Well, too bad.

Speaker 1 You're wrong. And then they put her in a fucking mental institution.

Speaker 1 What the fuck? So crazy. So there's no updates for this story.
It's, it's been over for a long time.

Speaker 1 Although I do definitely recommend watching The Changeling because that movie, even though I was, you know, making a lot of jokes about Angelina Jolie's performance, you know, in certain parts, it really kind of like the idea that you could watch and as a true crime like listener kind of followed that thing of like, oh, these are children getting picked off the street.

Speaker 1 Yeah. The timing of it,

Speaker 1 everything about it

Speaker 1 is so

Speaker 1 the corruption of the LAPD, everything going on. It's like almost like they're working in tandem, but they're not.

Speaker 1 They're just like the perfect thing for a serial killer to be working in that environment.

Speaker 1 So it's like, oh yeah, I can just drive out to my unincorporated city where my farm is and put yet one more boy into a barn where these children are waiting.

Speaker 1 I mean, that's just like the scariest thing. While you're watching The Changeling, keep an eye out for a cameo by comedian Ricky Lindholm as well.
Oh, what's she in?

Speaker 1 She's in the, she's a nurse in the mental institution. Oh, I'm not sure.
I just remember.

Speaker 1 Wow. I know.
All right. Well, now we're going on to story number three for this episode.
Story number three. Horrible story number three.

Speaker 1 We didn't yet know the pattern of tell a good, like a somewhat uplifting story at the end for everyone. Yes.
We didn't.

Speaker 1 And we won't have that for many hundreds of episodes. Well,

Speaker 1 especially for live. Yes.

Speaker 1 This being the kickoff of our live journey where, first of all, like, and first and foremost, it's like, it was like, yeah, we have to now go do live shows, which I, of course, was at least used to in terms of like what that might feel like, what we might have to be doing.

Speaker 1 But like,

Speaker 1 we can all podcast, but like when you invite 300 people to watch you, it changes the chemistry of any conversation, obviously. Then we invite a guest.

Speaker 1 Like there couldn't be more variables coming at us that night. It was wild.
I am glad though that this was our first live show instead of like the Chicago 2000 seat theater

Speaker 1 like standing ovation thing because like for me who's like I'm not a stand-up comedian I'm not used to performing in front of you know a fucking conference room full of people like having you and Dave there like I could count on you guys I could let you guys take over and I could rely on you guys and it was the crowd was kind of smallish so it was like friends yes and it felt it felt a lot less um like there was a lot less pressure yes for sure I'm really I'm glad that this was my first live show with me too and I think it's like I think it was the perfect one because ultimately we don't don't, we're not stand-ups.

Speaker 1 We are there to do a live podcast. So we're supposed to like our conversation is the most important thing.

Speaker 1 Our combined, what we do together is what people want to see, not like individual people doing a little show. It's like, it's, it's like how we engage.

Speaker 1 I also think Dave Anthony was the perfect guest because

Speaker 1 he gets all of that. He also knows me really well.
Exactly. And he kind of was just like, here's, how are we going to support any,

Speaker 1 He's been doing podcasts so long. He's just there, like, how are we going to make this a good podcast? Ultimately, and he knows.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I do remember talking with Vince on the way over and just being like, I'm going to let these two professional comedians like do their thing.

Speaker 1 I'm not going to, I hate it when you, I'm not going to try to get in there with them and, you know, have the last word and get in there.

Speaker 1 I'm just like, I'm going to rely on them and I'm going to be myself. And you did great.
I mean, Allison, when Alison and I were just kind of going over this, she's like, Georgia was so funny.

Speaker 1 And like, you would have never known known that it was her first, like, or both of your first anything.

Speaker 1 And I was just like, yeah, because I think that's the thing is that like, I think you are a natural.

Speaker 1 I think I've always told you that, where it's like all of these, you have, you have amazing, and I'm sorry to say trauma instincts where you're like, what do, how do I need to adapt?

Speaker 1 How do I need to change? I can do this. And you're

Speaker 1 so individual. Yeah.
Thank you. Yeah.
So, so essentially you're just like, how do I hang? And how do I, and you know how to be funny, especially conversationally funny.

Speaker 1 So like you didn't have anything to worry about. But

Speaker 1 it was a great relief to be like, oh, this is something, of course, I absolutely want to do. But for some people, is pure torture.
Totally. Totally.
Yeah. I miss it.

Speaker 1 Well, we still have another 45 hours, 45 hours of this episode to go. So now it's time for George's story about Mark Aaron Rust.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 2 I'm going back to Australia. Okay.
Because

Speaker 2 you did research there about the last one. And by the way, that one was fucking awesome.
Just throwing that out there. Thank you.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Australia, you got some fucked up shit going on over there, man. So, Mark Aaron Rust,

Speaker 2 fucking murderer. He was born.

Speaker 2 I mean,

Speaker 2 you're not going to believe it.

Speaker 2 Don't ease into it.

Speaker 2 All right. Don't creep up on that story.

Speaker 2 Do you know the theme of this podcast?

Speaker 2 No. Fuck it.

Speaker 2 So he was born in 1965.

Speaker 2 He is a self-described loner. He was 13 when he started following girls while fascinating about having sex with them.
And he started exposing himself to women as a teen.

Speaker 2 And he really liked the reaction of the women that he would expose. Like, it was so creepy.
Like, he would masturbate in front of them and be and, like, love that they were shocked and horrified.

Speaker 3 That's the, yeah, that's the whole thing.

Speaker 2 That's fucked up, man. Yeah.
All right. Uh, he's described it as an obese, disheveled, odorous man who expressed

Speaker 2 his limited vocabulary in a, in a, in a monotone. He's like a creepy, creepy creep.

Speaker 2 Uh,

Speaker 3 was this written by a high school cheerleader?

Speaker 2 No, mean. Georgia Hardstark.

Speaker 2 So he was charged seven seven times with indecency offenses, but was only fined, never convicted.

Speaker 2 What year is this?

Speaker 2 Well, he was born in 65. It's probably like mid to late 70s, early 80s.
I mean, everything was cool in the 70s. I get it.
Yeah. They just were like, go ahead.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So he was creepy. He was weird.

Speaker 2 He married twice because.

Speaker 2 They always do. They always fucking do.

Speaker 3 He must be great at small talk.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? But he's like, he's like mummy. I can't hear you.
He's like a smelly. He's like a.

Speaker 2 Works.

Speaker 3 It's about pheromones.

Speaker 2 Okay, so after his

Speaker 2 first second marriage ended,

Speaker 2 his wife at the time's daughter, his stepdaughter, claimed claimed he had sexually assaulted her. He was never charged, but had to attend sessions with a sex offenders treatment program.

Speaker 2 But he left halfway through the first session because he thought the program was stupid.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but that's probably. I mean, let's not judge it until we know.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, until we take the program.

Speaker 2 So he was working as a taxi driver in, so this is April 1999. And so Maya Jackic, she's 30, and she's walking in the neighborhood where he's driving a taxi.
Don't look at my notes.

Speaker 3 It's too late. I've read them all upside down.

Speaker 2 All right.

Speaker 2 She's a fucking sweet angel. She's born in Croatia in 1969.
And she grew up. In 1990, she fled the country due to the civil war with Serbia.
So she's like getting a better start in Australia.

Speaker 2 She's a sales assistant in a clothing store.

Speaker 2 And she's in this neighborhood for some fucking reason. It's an upper-class neighborhood.

Speaker 2 He sees her. I like the details.
And he says to her, he says, Wanna lift? in an Australian accent.

Speaker 2 I want it.

Speaker 2 Do it. I can't do that.
Come on, do it. You want to lift, mate? There it is.
There we go. That was peaky blinders.

Speaker 2 And she says, she, you know, she's, she's a fucking, she's staying sexy. And she's like, fuck yourself.
And he says, how about a root? Which I guess in Australian means like. Root means fuck.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she says, no, and keeps walking.
He drives after her and parks in a spot she had to walk by he exposes herself to him

Speaker 2 and wanting to see her horrified face and this amazing person scoffed at him oh

Speaker 2 not not what the guy not what he wants to have happen no oh she was fine no he does uh

Speaker 2 he snaps grabs her pulls her into this like bushy area and tries to rape her

Speaker 2 and it escalated to murder when he chokes her to death. Then he covers her body.
She's like in the bushes. He covers her, but he wanted her to be found in a creepy, fucked-up way.

Speaker 2 And it's like an abandoned building. So he calls from a payphone nearby to the

Speaker 2 911 in this country. 000.

Speaker 2 Thank you. And

Speaker 2 says, he says, hey, I was just walking by and there's a body. I see a body.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 two of these things happened, and the cops didn't find her body. And so finally, he fucking, five days later,

Speaker 2 he fucking,

Speaker 2 after him calling multiple times,

Speaker 2 he puts a note like under a cop's windshield that says, like, hi,

Speaker 2 there's a

Speaker 2 he says,

Speaker 2 there's a dead girl's body in the he's like, like puts an arrow basically pointing to her at. He literally, the last phone call, he's like, do I have to draw you a map?

Speaker 2 And he's like, I'm drawing a map. Yes.

Speaker 3 I've now engraved an invitation for you to come and see the body.

Speaker 2 So sad. Yes.
And then they finally

Speaker 2 find her. But they realize that the calls and the fucking note has to do.
Like, clearly it's not. They just hear from across the street.
Finally.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 they're released to the public. Nobody fucking identifies the note or the voice, the calls.

Speaker 2 It's six days later, the body's found.

Speaker 2 So he's in jail in late 1999 for trespassing, released on parole in 2001. 10 days later, after that,

Speaker 2 he grabs a woman and

Speaker 2 rapes her and sexually assaults her. And then,

Speaker 2 but she got out. So she got away from him?

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 So,

Speaker 2 so Megumi

Speaker 2 Suzuki, she's an 18-year-old, smart, wonderful Japanese exchange student attending college in Adelaide in 2001. She's going to be a counselor for internet.
Like, she's a good fucking person, you know?

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 on August 3rd, she leaves class and she's waiting at a bus stop and Rust fucking spots her.

Speaker 2 And he grabs her, tries to rape her, and he couldn't get an erection, which you know pisses people like this off, right?

Speaker 2 Pisses me.

Speaker 2 I feel like that's across the board.

Speaker 2 Tell us, tell us everything.

Speaker 2 So he tries to strangle her, but he can't. And so he bashed her head with a fucking rock.

Speaker 2 I know, baby angel. And then he wraps her body in sheets.
And so he puts her in a rubbish bin, in a trash bin for everyone here, nearby.

Speaker 2 And she's reported missing. Her parents, who are like so sweet, fly from Japan to look for her.
Her purse is found like shortly after, but her body's not fine.

Speaker 2 And her, like, poor boyfriend is like suspected of the whole thing and is like freaking out. Um, they search for her, and at that point, on August 16th,

Speaker 2 he cuts the power to an office building and he goes in. There's one female alone in the office building.
Oh, my God. I know.
He went full fucking Halloween.

Speaker 2 Yeah, don't work late, is the fucking secret. Wow.

Speaker 3 I don't like this at all.

Speaker 2 No, she's not dead, though. Okay, okay.
Okay, okay. She's

Speaker 2 his last victim. She's raped.

Speaker 2 He, he,

Speaker 2 he, like,

Speaker 2 he, like, fucking overcame her. And at one point, he hands her the knife that he has to hold while he like does his unbuttoned stuff.

Speaker 2 Because he was getting, he was, he was like, can you hold this while I take off my

Speaker 2 shirt? Yes. She was like, okay.

Speaker 2 But the only reason she's alive is because she was like, she went along with it. She didn't look at his face.
She didn't stab him with it? No. Okay.

Speaker 2 I know. It's bananas.
It's this whole thing of like, do you, do you, like, fight for your life and do anything you can? Or do you like go along with it? She made the right choice.

Speaker 2 But, but who knows what that would have been? It's so fucking insane to me. I, I can't.
So

Speaker 2 he didn't harm her. He,

Speaker 2 and I do, and I have insomnia. So

Speaker 2 so this is how he gets caught. Is so, so he, so that crime happens and then he leaves her and just leaves.
Goes. Doesn't kill kill her.
Doesn't kill her. She's alive.

Speaker 2 And then on the news, that they're like, they keep playing his recording of his voice over and over again and showing the note to like, to see the handwriting, his Rusk's brother fucking hears it and sees it.

Speaker 2 From the handwriting? Yeah.

Speaker 2 He hears

Speaker 2 the voice and he's like, I listened to it like 10 times. I went in the other room and played it so I could like, like, he just was like freaking out about it.
It's Rusky, mate. That's Rusky.
Rusky.

Speaker 2 Rusty. Yeah, but he was like, but he knew his brother had like maybe molested.
But it's also like I have a cousin.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And if I heard this story, I'd be like, yeah.

Speaker 2 Like, like there are people in your family who are like, oh, Cam, I got my eye on you. Yeah.
But the secret,

Speaker 2 the secret is it's never who you think it is, which makes me suspect everyone who I don't think it is.

Speaker 2 But this guy is that, he, like, that, that, that guy who talks in the monotone voice and that weirdness like i literally have a cousin like this and i'm like okay okay

Speaker 2 yeah you're i wouldn't be surprised if they were like yeah 40 bodies

Speaker 2 come on and his brother is like interviewed in one of these like id shows and he's like a normal sweet dude and he's like i i was out of town for a long time and then i came back and the news was playing this shit and i was like oh fuck like he knows it's his brother And then he sees the writing sample.

Speaker 2 He like goes to the police and brings like a letter that his brother had written him and they like matched it up. But this is only for the murder, the first murder.

Speaker 2 But fucking good for him because most

Speaker 2 no, but most people in a family would be like, it's not him, and convince themselves it's not him. Yeah,

Speaker 2 like, do you turn your family member in if you thought it was them? Yeah, oh, yeah, fuck yeah, yeah, yeah,

Speaker 2 a fucking murderer. Yeah, I don't, you would,

Speaker 3 yes, I would,

Speaker 2 I would,

Speaker 2 like, Laura, like, Laura, take this question, yes, I absolutely would,

Speaker 3 Because here's the thing, when you, it's like what you're saying.

Speaker 3 I think everybody at least knows a person or has a relative or whatever where you're just like, I it's just like there's something going on.

Speaker 3 So it's not like you'd be, you know, calling in all the time or whatever.

Speaker 3 But if there was something where it's like undeniable evidence A and undeniable evidence B and terrible result, you have to get those people off the street.

Speaker 2 And even if you do it and you turn them in and it's not them and it's fine, it's like at least you tried something. Yeah, I mean, Christmas is weird, but otherwise.
It's so hard.

Speaker 2 There's a lot to talk about.

Speaker 2 I got you a really big gift.

Speaker 2 Freedom.

Speaker 2 Exoneration. All right.
So he goes to, they figure out it's him. They fucking arrest him.
And while he's in prison,

Speaker 2 he confesses to a cellmate about Megumi's murder because he can't fucking, he needs to tell someone about it.

Speaker 2 Also, he had her, this is the second woman because he's convicted on the first woman because of her, of the calls. The second woman, they didn't even know it was, it was

Speaker 2 connected. And they, and he has her CD player in his cell.

Speaker 2 In his cell? What? In his cell.

Speaker 2 But no, I mean, I'm going to.

Speaker 2 What?

Speaker 2 Supposedly they let CD players into fucking prisoner cells. Well, but now

Speaker 2 I'm like, it's a good idea because he brought her

Speaker 2 possessions into his cell.

Speaker 2 And her parents were like, here's the receipt with the fucking number on it. Oh my God.
And they were able to match it up.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 3 That's some good. Somebody did some good work there.
Seriously. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So what, so he had put her in a rubbish bin and then they tracked the rubbish bin down. They figured out when that bin had gone to the dump.

Speaker 2 They, the cops fucking went through like bail by bail till they found the like the area where she had been in the dump. So

Speaker 2 let's see, 11 days after they started searching, after 10,000 tons, but it's T-O-N-N-E-S. So I don't know if this is the same thing as tons.

Speaker 2 How many is that?

Speaker 2 I mean, if I was just in Australia, but if I know correctly, that's about eight teaspoons.

Speaker 2 After all of that,

Speaker 2 under all that rubbish, they fucking find her. That's poor baby.

Speaker 2 That's amazing.

Speaker 2 Not to disparage American cops, but I also think there's a financial aspect where they just go, all right.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Go ahead and not look in the garbage. Lost cause.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Totally.

Speaker 2 They find her, all of this stuff.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 when they asked her why he killed her, he says, because I did.

Speaker 2 Piece of shit, clearly. Yeah.
He's sentenced to two concurrent life sentences without parole. He pled guilty to the murders of both the women,

Speaker 2 Maya, Jackie, and Megumi Suzuki. He filed an application seeking the imposition of a non-parole period for killing them.

Speaker 2 But everyone's like, everyone in Australia is like, fuck you, that's never going to happen. So he's in prison forever.
Fuck him.

Speaker 2 Fuck him.

Speaker 2 When you did your last Australia story, did someone go, you got to know about this Australian guy?

Speaker 2 No. They didn't? No.
I just, I have insomnia and I search murders constantly. Maybe that's why you have insomnia.

Speaker 2 Oh, I'm sure it's not. Wait, what?

Speaker 2 I never thought about that.

Speaker 2 Have you seen all the date lines? All of them.

Speaker 3 Are you you in love with Keith Morrison?

Speaker 2 Oh my God. Keith Leans on Things.

Speaker 2 Did you know this?

Speaker 3 He really loves to lean.

Speaker 2 There's an Instagram called Keith Leans on Things and it's just Keith Morris leaning on things.

Speaker 2 That's so bad.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 he came to the woman's house who made that Instagram and they lean on each other and they're just like,

Speaker 2 she's my hero. My hero.

Speaker 2 That's pretty weird.

Speaker 3 I don't know how we're doing on the other side.

Speaker 2 I think we're getting getting this.

Speaker 2 Oh, that light means getting

Speaker 2 super dirty.

Speaker 3 I know, I know, I know.

Speaker 2 You're apologize again. Tony.

Speaker 2 And the last dollop we put up,

Speaker 2 there were approximately a million penguins turned into oil.

Speaker 2 What's this? Yeah, it's a story I did.

Speaker 2 And I took me two days to get over that. It might have took me longer to get over this.

Speaker 2 Yeah. We exonerate you.

Speaker 2 Don't you feel good right now? Like, you're doing good.

Speaker 2 You know what's funny is years ago, I was talking to Karen about comedy, and she was like,

Speaker 2 She was like, he just did a joke about child murder, and I just don't think it's funny, and I don't think people should talk about it. No, not our Karen.
But people change, obviously.

Speaker 2 This one? This is a lie.

Speaker 2 There is.

Speaker 2 No way I said that ever.

Speaker 3 Who was it, Ray James?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 I was not mad about the child murder.

Speaker 2 This is not the Karen I know.

Speaker 3 I was using that topic as an excuse to hate a person.

Speaker 3 It's what we do. It's what we do.
I don't do it anymore.

Speaker 2 Can I say thank you for coming to the podcast festival and supporting

Speaker 2 and supporting this podcast?

Speaker 2 Thank you.

Speaker 2 Because we

Speaker 2 booked these guys really early on when

Speaker 2 they started popping up. And I was like, I feel like something's happening here.
And sure enough, a lot of people are fucking crazy. And now we want to.

Speaker 2 My wife is a total murderer. I know.
We've talked about it. She's all about the murders.
So

Speaker 3 it makes me so happy.

Speaker 2 I know. Thank you guys so much for fucking.

Speaker 2 Right?

Speaker 2 You guys are, thank you so much. This is our first live show.
This is so fucking exciting today. It's really all having us.
Of many, of many.

Speaker 2 I hope so. Yes, I'm praying.
You're Dave Anthony. You're being a great first guest, a perfect first guest.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I guess now we tell you to stay sexy and don't get murdered. But I have Elvis on the wait, hold on.
Here we go. Here we go.
Here, wait, do it again. Stay sexy.
And don't get

Speaker 2 murdered.

Speaker 2 This is what she tried. She tried to play it for Gareth backstage.

Speaker 1 Okay, we're back. Any case updates on the third story of the live of the first live show? If you're still awake and with us, thank you.
There's no updates on the case.

Speaker 1 Mark Aaron Rust remains incarcerated in Australia, serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole for the murders of Maya Jake and Megumi Suzuki. Well, so that's just, he's still alive too.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's so weird. And also this,

Speaker 1 because our naming structure that we just named the live shows live from wherever, to take a little work off our plate, there's really no need to rename this.

Speaker 1 It's like, if we renamed it anything, it'd be like our first live podcast. Look at us go.

Speaker 1 Do you remember though? And this is how well I remember it. We went to norms after on La Ciena Go.

Speaker 1 Did we? Do you remember? We all went to norms. You, me, and Vince, and probably Stephen went to Norm's.
Nice. And did you get a steak for $6.99?

Speaker 1 Probably with an onion ring on it. Yes, I love it.
Nice. That's definitely a place to visit if you come to LA.
Go to Norms. I love that.
All right.

Speaker 1 Well, thanks, you guys, for listening for three hours to that episode. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And stay sexy. And don't get murdered.

Speaker 1 Good.

Speaker 1 Elvis, do you want a cookie?

Speaker 1 No one brings out your inner monster like a bad neighbor.

Speaker 1 Claire Danes and Matthew Reese find that out for themselves in The Beast in Me, a new eight-episode drama from the team that brought you homeland. Danes plays Aggie Wiggs, a grieving writer.

Speaker 1 Reese plays Niall Jarvis, her new neighbor and possible murderer. But who's the monster and who's the bad neighbor? That's another story.

Speaker 1 It's a game of cat and mouse that sets them on a collision course with fatal consequences. The Beast in Me, now playing only on Netflix.
You will not want to miss this. Goodbye.
Goodbye.

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Goodbye. Goodbye.