Rewind with Karen & Georgia - Episode 36: Live from LA Podcast Festival

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This one.

Oh, this one's so long.

Why did we make

this two episodes?

Why in God's name

would we have Dave

do his own

whole fucking story?

I don't,

or why wasn't it

just Dave

doing his own

whole story?

Like, what the fuck

were we thinking? My savior Hello. Hello.
And welcome. To Rewind with Karen and Georgia.
That's right. It is when it's day.
So we are recapping one of our old shows with all new commentary and case updates and emotional reveals.

Now, this one is crazy. We're recapping episode 36, which we named live from the L.A.
Podcast Festival because it was our first live show. First live show.
Amazing. Oh, my God.
I can still remember driving to that live show from work, trying to put on makeup in the car as I go to this, our first live show. And it was like, why can't I? Like, nothing in my life is set up so that the things I should be prioritizing are prioritized.
First and foremost, my appearance. You and yourself and your own ambitions.
Nope. I'd pay those bills.
Oh, anyway, so on this episode, we're joined by our very first guest, a comedian and fellow podcaster, co-host of The Dollop, Dave Anthony. And even he tells a story as we were complaining earlier.
Everyone gets an hour. So get comfy and join us as we take you back to September 29th, 2016, which of course would also have been the 258th birthday of British naval hero Admiral Nelson.
We must celebrate Admiral Nelson. He joined the Navy when he was 12 years old.
Is that Alison Agassi putting that in there? She originally put in, it was the birthday, whatever birthday of Kevin Durant. And I was like, George and I don't really follow basketball.
And then she goes, I know, but nobody else was born on this day. And we look, it's Halsey and it's Kevin Durant and it's Admiral Nelson.
And everybody else is like a YouTube star that you and I have not heard of.

I've never heard of Admiral Nelson, so it's fine.

But he joined the Navy when he was 12.

Oh, well, baby.

All right, let's do this.

It's time for the intro of episode 36, which is the first live anything we've ever done.

Let's see how we do.

All right.

We did this wrong.

All right.

There's trash.

Just don't worry about the trash.

Glamorous.

Classy.

Professional.

Hi.

Welcome to My Favorite Murder Live, everybody. What? We had them recreate my apartment on stage.
George's blue curtains are gorgeous. Oh my God, can we talk about this? Yes, can we please? Fuck.
Karen, tell me everything. Well, last week when we were talking about how we are going to come and do a live podcast, we were talking about all the things we needed to do and bring and have to recreate the same environment that we have in Georgia's hot, hot apartment when we record every week.
And Georgia made a joke and said, I guess I'll buy a cage to bring elvis and i said or you could just have him stuffed and her heart broke in front of me and now i'm that friend so i've been trying to think for like six days turning things like you got to make good on that piece of bullshit um and then i remembered that i'm a compulsive vintage thrift store shopper and i got shit like this laying around by the dozens and i was like excuse me don't you have a some sixth grade teacher hand knit a siamese cat and it's just been sitting in a closet for like fucking seven years and the answer is yes Elvis is here when I saw that backstage I was like I'm not supposed to see that and if I look at it I'm going to cry so I didn't because it's so sweet and so I didn't look at it. Ow! What happened? I'm just trying to move my...
Okay. There we go.
Have you gotten a good look at it? Because there's truly about four years of dust right on the top. You guys can see that.
It meant a lot. Karen, thank you so much.
And I would have dusted it off but I was running late. And if you know my apartment...
You don't know my apartment. This is the most perfect thing for my apartment.

It's going to match everything. It's like a grandma and there's like seafoam happening.

It's a seafoamy apartment.

Everything.

It makes me so.

Thank you so much, Karen.

You're welcome.

I got you a nothing.

I'm going to catch a moonbeam in my pocket.

Save it. This is our first live show look at it thank you you guys i'm nervous i'm nervous are you nervous i'm nervous let's talk it through okay um what do you think it could happen that's nerve-wracking uh it already happened What? nothing dusty cat picture no nothing nothing everything's good this is great but what's your we're just working through worst fears like farting comes to mind oh ex-boyfriend right there where you can't stop making eye contact well that's his fault not yours good one you know what's yours mine is saying something so stupid and then like silence.
You know what I mean? Everyone laugh at that. Thank you.
Wow, Jeb Bush. That can't have felt good.
Everybody laugh at that. Because when we're doing it in my apartment, it's like we're just talking to each other.
I know. I'm going to pretend we're talking to each other.

Good plan.

Okay.

Because you still have to talk to me.

I insist.

Okay.

Yeah, we're very excited.

It's obviously we can't do our normal house cleaning.

I mean, housekeeping.

Oops, I messed up my line already.

Housekeeping.

Housekeeping.

Housekeeping.

Do you have any?

I don't.

Oh, yes.

I have one, but it's like heartfelt and touching housekeeping.

Go, go, go.

It has nothing to do with me not knowing the capital of Norway or whatever the fuck ignorance is exposed on this goddamn podcast every week.

I used to think I was super smart.

You should have seen me in the 90s fucking playing Jeopardy at home and shit. Now, now I'm like a shell of a woman.
So, um, uh, Dustin, the head of feral audio forwarded this email to us the other day. He also brought us fucking flowers.
He brought us double roses. Yeah, that's right.
That's exactly how you do it. Who's who's that character um so this is the email he sent and it says um some of you will recognize this if you've listened to the podcast recently uh hi karen and georgia oh my god just heard your podcast about me you two made me cry and feel so honored while attack was horrible, hearing you two reminded me that my story might help other women.
Thank you for this gift tonight. It's been 21 years.
I'm raising my son and daughter, trying to prepare them for a crazy world. My attack is now part of my DNA, just who I am.
But you honored me by reminding me, even me, that stories of survival remind us all of the gift of life and challenge of our survival. Call me.
And she gave us her phone number. It's Jennifer Morey.
The chick who, yeah. The woman who got attacked by the security guard story.
Who held her open neck, closed with a towel. She doesn't hate us.
She wants us to call her. She is super into it.
What the fuck? We're going to fucking call her. Dude.
We can't do it now. That'd be an invasion of privacy.
Jennifer, we're all here. Jennifer, what color towel held your neck together? That's bananas.
I feel like we're both always afraid that we're like you know we don't want to make any victims feel that we're just like exploiting them there's so many there's so many potholes to fall into I know you were really happy to get this like nice fucking email from someone that we talked like that's bananas well also i'm so obsessed with the show i survived that jennifer right that too but jennifer maury is like one of my real housewives only she did something way fucking cooler like she's a badass yeah also probably a housewife um so yeah she deserves to be I mean, like, take your fucking day off, man. Well, that's the cool thing is she's an attorney.
And she's a victim's rights advocate. So she's going for it.
We have no excuse. We have to leave this podcast festival right now and help someone.
Let's go. All of us.
We just make everyone leave the pocket. And become victims' rights advocates.
Tonight. Tonight near the Beverly Center.
There's a van outside signing everyone up and we'll know if you don't do it. I feel like there was another thing that we were supposed to mention.
You guys, you're used to this already. Except Stephen edits this part out.
Yeah, that's right. This is all going to get pulled.
On the podcast. Drink it in.
All right, I guess we just bring out our guests. No, let's just do it.
We only have 90 minutes. So after we interview each and every one of you,

I think then we're going to go to the cards.

Well, our guest tonight, excitingly enough,

is one of the hosts of The Dollop.

And he was my first comedy boyfriend.

So please welcome to the stage, Dave Anthony.

Yay! comedy boyfriend. So please welcome the stage.
Dave Anthony. That's awesome.
You guys are at a table and I'm over here. Let's scoot it on over.
I can't get out Charlie Rose this thing. How is that, by the way? I had a friend in New York who had the sciatica thing.

Did he? How did she cure it?

Oh, she didn't make it.

Oh!

That's awful news.

I probably shouldn't have brought that up.

For fuck's sake.

You know what? I don't remember how she

cured it, but you probably get a lot of suggestions.

I'm getting so many, but very nice ones.

Thank you, everyone. I remember her going through it.
It was terrible. It sucks.
What are you going to do? I had a little back thing. Some people have war in their country so it's hard to complain about.
You know what? Don't complain about your own pain because people have been to war. Yeah.
So. Oh, we are back.
I mean, what a strong start. I remember everything about that live show.
It's like the last one I truly remember on its own. The other ones that we've done since then are all kind of like a mishmash of moments.
Yeah. But maybe because I was so nervous.
Yeah. But you also gave me that Siamese cat knit art.
Yep. That was so unexpected and incredible.

Well, and because I had basically threatened Elvis's life, you could interpret it that way if you chose to. So I did need to do a little makeup.
But I also knew that like, it's like, oh, we're so nervous and we're so kind of concerned with what's going on that we're, I was afraid we weren't going to do any of our normal stuff at the top. You know what I mean? That it was just...
We had no idea. We didn't discuss.
And also we were in this conference room. Listener, let us describe it for you now because we were in the Softil Hotel, which is in right downtown Hollywood, essentially.
Yeah. Beautiful, fancy hotel.
Yeah. A conference room that was fully lit.
I could look into and probably describe to you the faces of the audience members that were there that night. And we didn't know, like we were, that was part of LA Podcast Fest.
So I was like, oh, these people were just already here. And they're just like, oh, we'll go see them too.
Right. There's a break.
Let's go see this podcast. Do you think it was like 150 or 300 people? What do you think? I mean, somewhere around there.
It was a pretty big conference room. I would say somewhere between 200 and 300 people.
Yeah, that sounds right. It was a nice big, you know, ovation.
It didn't feel like there was like sparse seats, you know, empty seats or anything like that. that it really did feel like we had a nice kind of thing going but I do definitely remember beforehand

when we were backstage I turned to you and I was like do you have the theme song and you literally

kind of like kind of like smiled at me and walked away like I think you were going into nerves or

going into some sort of personal space of like we're about to walk on stage and me you know I

was going into is a fucking glass of champagne oh yeah where's where i was going into you're like i gotta get in here because i was like i should have thought about this but now that we're standing here like when they say our name we should go on to the theme song because that's going to help us a lot you know whatever and thank god steven was backstage steven yes steven saved the day as he's done a million times. Yeah.
Where he was kind of like, I got it. He's like, I think I have it.
I don't know. And I'm like, will you just go find the person and make this happen? You know what we need? And he was like, yes.
And he did it. He did.
Thank you, Stephen. All right.
So for some reason, we thought it'd be a great idea that night to let each one of us, you, me and Dave, tell an entire fucking story. Like, why didn't we have Dave do one? Why didn't you or I do one? I don't know.
Really strange. I think we were just kind of like, well, this is what he does on his podcast.
Right. We'll all do it together.
Yeah. With no concern about time.
No. This could have been two episodes.
Like, why did we do this to ourselves? Also, I think this was a very early, us talking about the trailside killer. And, like, the kind of stuff we were doing in this is probably the height of the bad combination of comedy and true crime.
Right. We're really being casual and jokey about some of the...
The Trailside Killer, well, at least personally, because I lived through it and watched it on TV, was a very, very traumatizing thing for kids in the North Bay to go through. And I think that's what Dave and I were kind of processing, was just like this and kind of being able to retell it, you know,

whatever it was 50 years later with that distance. But it also just really cringy.
Some of these jokes are horrible. Totally.
I mean, and all three of the cases that we cover are terrible and could stand alone. But let's get into Dave's story.
He's first. Yeah.
Here's his story about the trailside killer.

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Dave, will you please tell us about your favorite murder? Oh my God. David, this is our first guest favorite murder.
I went back and I was like, well, they've had to have a guest on and you guys had no guest on. Very first.
We expressly do not.

Yeah. Elvis and Steven are the only

people we've had in the podcast.

So my favorite murder

by the way, I took a really great

picture of us

and I just posted it.

I think...

Did we know?

That's gross.

It's me and Georgia. Am I picking my nose? It's me and Georgia backstage.
She is my favorite ghost. Georgina Hubostank? Oh, there she is.
That's Georgina Hubostank. Hubostank.
Spin on. Oh, I turned off my...
Fucking asshole. I never called you a fucking asshole for that.
So I grew up near Karen. I grew up just south of her in a place called Marin County.
And in Marin County, we have a place called Mount Tamalpais. Just the one.
And some really fucking great things happened on Mount Tam Phil Pius. Oh, this says shark attacks.

So let's bring up the actual one.

I've got to go to my email.

I didn't tell you there's no notes.

No, you guys have been reading Wikipedia.

I've been listening.

It's not as fluid and as crazy it used to be. Right, and then you get Cratchin' Corner.
Yeah. It's made us millions of dollars.
I do a carefully crafted podcast, which makes us much less money than that. That sounds boring.
But it's... Oh, I'm sorry.
I'm's oh I'm sorry I'm sorry some guy one time on Twitter all of a sudden he comes out of nowhere and he goes you get a stupid podcast you just read Wikipedia you talk about it and I was like yeah I mean I don't know that's your new tagline that's what I'm doing but then I got in trouble I mean, I don't know. That's your new tagline.
That's what I'm doing. That's fun.
That's it. But then I got in trouble, so you don't do that anymore.
Okay, so I put a date on May 6, 1930. Yay! I can't.
That's called a crossover. I can't not do that.
It's called a mashup. It's called a crossover.
It's called a mixtape. Okay, so David Carpenter, and you obviously know I was doing this one, because who else would I do for Marin? So he's born in San Francisco, raised by very strict and aggressive parents.
Alcoholic father, beat him up, neglected him. His mother was very domineering and nearly blind.
So that So that's like... How to make a murderer.
I mean... 101.
I mean, how did he not murder at three? Yeah. Wait, blind and aggressive.
What does that look like? What does it feel like? It's messy. There's a lot of punching of you and then like a wall.
A lot of lamps broken in that house. Not a flower stayed in a vase through his whole childhood.
Get over here, I'm punching things. So when he was seven, he was stuttering so badly he had a difficult time in any social situation.
See, what she just did, I just told her backstage, that's why we don't do terrible, really, really terrible murders on the dollar, because neither I or Gareth would go, oh. Ever.
And then it's a different show, where you're like, what the fuck are these guys doing? It's called the Humanity. Oh, look, empathy helps.
Empathy? So he's stuttering horribly. Then he was being ridiculed, which made him painfully reclusive.
And to get him over this, his parents forced him into extracurricular activities. Oh, been there.
Such as? Piano and ballet. Oh, dude.
That old blind bitch. Fuck her.
Seriously. That is passive aggression, if not overt aggression.
She can't even see him doing ballet. I know.
How does she enjoy that? Purely for the humiliation. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So oddly, that did not help his crippling stutter. He then began to take out his frustrations on animals, and he became a bedwetter.
Ding dong. We've got two.
Yeah. We've got two so far.
When does he hit his head in

ballet class

to give us the majestic

trifecta

of serial killing?

Then when he

became a teenager, he

started molesting children.

He was arrested for

molesting his two cousins, three and eight.

He served a year for that crime. Good.
Perfect. Oh, as you do.
You're going to enjoy the sentences in this one. And then he was released.
He became even more of a predator, continued molesting until he met a woman, Ellen Heatl, who had no sense of anything and got married. She's like, you seem so fucking weird and your family is crazy.
Let's get married. I want to lock this down.
He worked at different jobs. He was a ship's purser.
My dad was a ship's purser. I have no idea what it is.
What the fuck is that? I think you run around giving ladies purses. No.
It's gopher from the love boat. You just carry bags and stuff.
That's it. So you're like a bellboy on a ship.
Right, exactly. It's a bellboy.
Yeah. I wasn't sure what it was.
I just assumed someone here would know. Karen.
It's Karen. He was also a salesman and a printer.
He had a very serious need for sex and was very demanding. He needed to have sex three times a night.
He saved it all until the night time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He wouldn't sprinkle it throughout? One morning, one after. Come on, everyone.
He needed it at night. Night hours.
he's a night fucker trying to read a book over here when you do what you do and I'll do what I do come on so I always find the build up to people fascinating how they got there. And in the dollop, it's always and then their mother, father died when they were three.
Every story. Yes.
Everyone. And then I assume you guys get a lot of bedwetters.
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Heading heads all the time. Mean dads, bedwetters.
Stepdads. Jesus fucking Christ.
So he had three children with her, and then he began prowling again. In 1960, he became friends with a woman, Lois D'Andre, no, D'Andrade, and he invited her to meet his wife and started including her in their lives.
Then one day he took her to work, but instead of doing that, he drove her to a wooded area of the Presidio, which at that time was an army base,

and pretended like he was lost.

At some point he grabbed her, straddled her,

bound her with a clothesline, and using a knife,

he threatened her and forced her to be still.

He said he had a funny quirk that needed to be satisfied.

Real funny.

It's not ballet, right?

It's not.

And then he put on a tutu.

This is terrible.

She then tried to get away,

and so he hit her several times with a hammer.

Oh, fuck.

Now, before and during the incident,

he completely lost his stutter.

His speech was slow and deliberate and angry.

Wow. Yeah.
Thankfully, there was an mp on the base and he was very suspicious watching the car watching a woman getting hit in the fucking he's like i don't i don't like the light look to that knife i don't know she seems to be crying near the knife. So he hurt, and then he heard the cries for help, and he was near, so he came over, and Carpenter got out of the car and shot at him and missed, and then the MP shot back and hit Carpenter in the leg and I think the back.
Carpenter was arrested, but he said his excuse was that he blacked out during the whole attack, which is solid. Yeah, let him go.
It's a solid excuse. I don't remember hitting her with a hammer.
I think I was napping. He was given a 14-year sentence.
That's it. That's the story.
Oh, well, thanks for being here, Dan. And then for some reason, his wife divorced him.

I don't know why.

During his stay in prison,

psychiatrists reported that Carpenter has a, quote,

sociopathic personality disorder and an IQ of 125.

That's too many IQs.

That amount makes me nervous.

That many? That's more than me

for sure more than I

in 1969 he was freed after

nine years being a catch

he remarried

four months after getting out

no but look he had been

doing push-ups and he got that one

Thank you. nine years.
Being a catch, he remarried four months after getting out. No, but look, he had been doing push-ups, and he got that one tattoo, and he was like, I'm going to put a cigarette in the corner of my mouth and stuff.
You think it sounds bad, but then if you see prison trim, like just a trim, you're like, all right, well, the other stuff, the stutter, the killing of animals, the molestation, the beating of a woman with a hammer. The toe shoes.
He looks good. He looks.
You can look past it. You can look past it.
Yeah. But in under a year, he returned to his ways and the marriage was was over.
Then, he hit a woman with his... So there's a woman driving, and he hits her car, and then he pulls her out of it and starts ripping her clothes off in the middle of the road.
I'm terrified of this. I think about this all the time.
What? Yeah. Someone intentionally hitting your car so they can pull all your clothes off.
Oh, I mean, but who doesn't? They, they, like I was at State Farm Insurance the other day and they brought that up. What a common accident situation.
Yeah, they're like, have you, I know you've been any fender benders, but has anybody ripped your clothes off? And I was like, no. Thankfully, not yet.
There was a bender pulley offer.

What?

Where are you?

I'm going to describe that as a unique anxiety that you have.

So she fought him

and then he stabbed her.

I have an anxiety about that. I'm a weirdo that way.
She managed to get back in her car and get away and she got his license plate. Fuck yeah.
That kind of shit fucking amazes me. Can she email us and tell her to call us? She's like...
She probably had crazy 30-20 vision and she was just like just like blowing people up with her mind just like you're gonna fucking you're gonna pull my clothes off i'll fucking memorize every letter on your license plate amazing his license plate was like a vanity plate of like i'm a killer love to kill one so figuring that he was probably up shit's creek at this point he broke into a home kidnapped and raped a woman and stole her car two days later he snatched Sharon O'Donnell and held her with a shotgun.

But when he tried to switch license plates on his car,

she escaped.

He then stole another car.

Later that day, he kidnapped and raped another woman,

and he was arrested later that day.

This was February 3rd, 1970.

He was going for it.

Top day.

We have those days where like, I'm going to fucking tick every checkmark on my to-do list. I'm going to get shit done today.
I'm sick of it. I will go to Home Depot.
I will drop those clothes off at the Goodwill. I will rape a ton of people.
I just have to do it. Oh no.
This is the podcast where we get fucking thrown because we're just being so mean right now. Too bad.
Okay. I can't live that way.
I can't live under that pressure. I've got to be me.
That's why this works. That's why this works.
So he was sentenced to seven years for kidnapping and robber and he pled out he also received two more years for his parole violations he got out in may 1979 but was not listed as a sex offender no I mean why would you he mean. He offended, but it wasn't sexual.
He took up hiking as a hobby. Alone in the woods.
Perfect. But not like other people, he liked the seclusion of the wilderness because it helped him grab a woman.
He was a clown hiker. He liked to grab women, so that's the perfect place.

Just three months after being released, while living at a halfway house, he committed his first murder.

On August 19th, 1979, Etta Kane, 44, was walking on the trails of Mount Tamal Pius, which overlooks Golden Gate Bridge,

which is also where I grew up riding mountain bikes right next to my house. It's also where I asked my wife to marry me.

I didn't tell her this part.

That's why it works.

I mean, I love you.

And there's some other stuff we'll get to later.

Like a week we'll talk about it.

But this is a weird spot.

So Etta was alone. She was attacked from behind, forced to get on her knees, and begged for her life.
And then he shot her in the back of the head, execution style. Fucking dick.
Yeah. Her body was found the next day.
He had taken $10 from her wallet credit cards and her glasses and left very little evidence

witnesses said they saw two lone men

one was blonde and acting strange the other had on a

dark blue jacket that made him sweat and he

hid his face

I mean clearly the guy walking around

acting strange smoking pot

and the guy hiding his face

is the fucking killer

there's one guy acting weird which is blonde and there's another guy that's like Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee people wear jackets when it's hot. Just like a weird jacket.
No, you're a murderer. They should be able to just arrest people wearing jackets on hot days.
You're a murderer or you're anorexic and you're fucking cold all the time. Yeah, that's right.
Seek some help, man. Either way, they should arrest them both.
Totally. I just spit on my iPad.
Said from us. So this guy was clearly a carpenter.
For a brief time, people living there were freaked out, including young Dave Anthony. But then things went back to normal.
Like, nothing happened, everything went by, and then everyone started walking the trails again. He was released from the halfway house he was living in.
So when he did that, he was living in a halfway house, and he went to live with his parents. Remember? I'd be proud of him.
Old blind bitch. Right.
And whoever the dad was. Yeah, why would you? Okay.
Gotta go you okay gotta go to the source like you can live here again but you have to do ballet more put on this apron he somehow found a way to pass as a normal productive citizen he took courses in computer printing at a trade school and graduated with a degree. Then in spring, he went back to killing.
In March... Like pressing prints is boring.
Right? You get stuff done and then you're like, I gotta get back to my hobby. This computer printing is really stressing me out.
I gotta relax. In March, 23-year-old Barbara Schwartz was walking on Mount Tam when a thin athletic man walked up to Schwartz and her dog started barking at him.
He had dark hair and wore hiking boots. He quickly just started stabbing her with his 10-inch knife.
Fuck, man! She was stabbed 12 times. She collapsed and he ran off and she was dead.
Now, the reason we know this is because this was all seen by

a woman who was standing in the trees.

Wait, what? Watching. So, some woman

just was sitting there standing in the trees.

Standing in the trees? I mean, look, everybody's a

weirdo.

That was a misprint

in the fucking newspaper, I promise you.

What they didn't say is she had a wet nightgown

on.

Ma'am, are you alright? There haven't been women around here in 25 years. There's no woman in the tree.
What a terrible story this is. That's the tag on of our podcast.
What a terrible story. What a terrible story.
It's not a great one. I never thought I'd be reading this in front of 400 people.
This is not 400 people. No.
Now that's your anxiety talking. So, right.
Seen by a woman in the trees. Unfortunately, she described Carpenter horribly and the investigation would be misled for years because of her terrible description.
Shocking. She's crazy.
Other people in the area said they saw a man wearing glasses who looked about 40.

That was Carpenter.

The knife was on days later.

Could that woman have been like an egret or something?

They were just like a bird standing in the forest.

That's a terrible description.

So mustache, yes?

Okay. So the knife was found days later and a TV reporter handled it destroying the fingerprints.
No. This is 1970? This is 79.
The guy's like touching, touching touching he's just like super into touching things what a story they're gonna love this across the bay uh 1979 is not that long ago no we're not this isn't jack the river we totally had fingerprints figured out at that point But other than that, just touch away. Whoever gets there first.

Carpenter also lost his prison. We totally had fingerprints figured out at that point.
But other than that, just touch away.

Whoever gets there first.

Carpenter also lost his prison-issued glasses during the attack.

And it's so crazy as a child from the sketches.

I totally remember the glasses.

Yes.

You're wearing them, right?

Yes.

I mean, weird time to bring up.

This is my hero. So the next day he went to an optometrist.

Barbara Schwartz optometrist,

the woman he had killed,

to get new glasses.

No.

On purpose?

No.

No.

Total just happenstance.

What the fuck?

Now, he had a very unique prescription and had the optometrist who was questioned by police been told about his unique prescription.

Shut up.

He probably wouldn't have been able to finger Carpenter right there and then.

And they had the glasses because the glasses came off.

So the cops had the prescription, but they never thought to to be like what do you think about a 70 30. oh my god so now again people living around the area totally freaked out um not going near mount tam again and then again time goes by and people start going back to mount tam the flowers are pretty.
It's hard to stay away.

There's great trees and there's a woman standing... And a grit-like woman standing with a wet robe.
Wet robe. It's fine.
So on October 15th, 26-year-old Ann Alderson was sitting alone watching the sunset. Don't do it.
A witness... A witness saw her and also saw a weird 50-year-old man, but decided against warning her.
Oh, well. Wrong call.
Wrong call. But I'm sure he led a fine life with just him and his bottle of whiskey.
Just sitting there going, yeah, that's horrifying.

You would never forgive yourself. Of course not.

It's awful. That's the thing.

Just be rude. Go up to people

and be like, hi, I know this makes me

the weirdo, but there's a weirdo over there.

You know,

you make the call who you hate

or run away from.

As a dude, you walk over and go, hey, there's a really

weird guy right there. Come in close while I describe the guy.
Can I drive you home? Let me drive you away from the creek. He's got curly hair and glasses and gray pants and a maroon.
I totally understand why you wouldn't say it, but I also just... What fucking chances man that you see a weirdo multiple times a day looking in the mirror okay so Anne was an escalation she was raped and then allowed to dress again and then shot with a single bullet through the head.

He took her right earring and then propped her up to make it look like she was sitting against a rock. She also appeared to have been shot while begging for her life.
And he was just getting rolling. Shauna May was supposed to meet friends on November 28th in Point Reyes National Seashore to go hiking.
She was found two days later. she was nude and had been raped and bound with picture frame wire, shot three times in the head, and dumped into a trench.
Right besides her body was a second young woman, 22-year-old Diane O'Connell. She had also gone missing, this time, while hiking with friends.
What, what, what? Oh, this is the worst. One of her friends was faster

and got ahead of her on the path.

Cunt.

And her other friend...

Am I wrong?

She was kind of a cunt.

You're not wrong.

You're not wrong.

You're not?

Because I had total empathy for that person.

I was like, man, she just wanted to get up the top. And you guys were like, what? No, no, congratulations.
You're up there. Yeah.
We're talking about, like, my new boy I'm dating. And you're just like, bye.
Bye. Fuck you.
Watch my calves. R.E.I.
Fuck you. Okay.
Then what about her other friend who was slower that was behind her? Oh, no.

Who's the cunt now?

I can't choose anymore.

There's so many to pick from.

It's a weird thing to go hiking with your friends

and then you all split up.

No, we don't do that.

That's why I don't hike.

Or have friends.

It's not worth it.

So, she also disappeared their friends saw nothing because they were so far ahead and behind so either friend it was as if they were all going and then the middle person that's so scary and it was supposed to be Yeah. Diana had been shot twice in the head.
A nearby, a hiker nearby heard all the shots and it appears Carpenter had killed them. Both the girls at the same time.
Wait. So the two girls are sitting side by side in a trench and he had killed them both at once.
Yeah. Diana had also been strangled and raped.
The police concluded one of the women had interrupted Carpenter attacking the other woman. So he killed them both.
Just really quick. I wish I could.
We had a slideshow of Mount Tam right now because it is the most gorgeous place. It's amazing.
It's so beautiful. The place where they take all the pictures of San Francisco, of the Golden Gate Bridge, and then you see San Francisco behind it, that's Mount Tam.
Yeah. Wow.
It's got redwood trees. It's like, it's got, it's the most, for natural, you know, wonder.
I mean, it's just the most incredible. Like, we would go on field trips there all the time in grammar school.
Mountain bikes were invented there. Yeah.
Really? Yeah, mountain bikes were invented. So the idea that this man is that fucking angry that he's going to God's most perfect place and fucking hiding and picking people off.
And we all were just like, hey, you want to go to Mount Tam for the day? And you would just go walking and hiking. Mount Tam would just go there for the day and just hike and cruise.
Yeah.

Crazy.

It's crazy.

Yeah.

Scary.

Okay.

So that same day, two more bodies were found a half mile away.

Jesus.

Both had been shot in the head.

What the fuck?

He's in his berserker mode.

Yeah.

He's going crazy.

Creep of bananas.

I think they call it in court.

You're a circuit court judge?

I am a circuit court judge.

This was my case.

This might be unethical.

But for the first time, one of them was male.

Richard Stowers was 18.

His fiance, Cynthia Moreland, was 18. Also, they had been missing for quite some time, since October 11th.
Ballistic now tied the murders together, and suddenly everyone realized there was a serial killer on the loose on Mount Tam. Police were told to avoid the area alone.
Wait, what? Yeah, I have a problem with that one. Wait, police were told to avoid...
No, sorry, people. There we go.
But also... Also, I assume police also.
You know what? I just want to say this. Police are people.
There's all these hiking cops that are like, I gotta go up there, man. No, please.
I have to warn you.

But also, like,

they just found two

people who were killed together.

And then another girl,

it was two other friends.

So not even alone.

No, but his system is not going to help you.

Also, he has a gun.

If it's like a knife, one of you can skedaddle.

But if there's a gun, you're both fucked. Yeah.
So the press named him the trailside killer. Local police reached out to the FBI for help.
The FBI came up with a profile. It said he was shy, reclusive, and probably had a speech impediment.
What? And was unsure of himself in social situations. He had no victim type.
It was about opportunity. He was like a spider waiting for a fly to come to his web.
He was white, intelligent, blue collar, and had been in prison. He would have also had a...
Oh boy, that's a word that corrected itself on this thing. It would have had two or three boyhood indicators of starting a fire, bedwetting, and animal cruelty.
So he had two of the three. The profiler concluded he had a speech impediment because of the locations of the attacks.
He has some kind of defect that really bothers him. How do they know that? They're so good.
I was just like, how do you do that? They were like sitting at a table across from him and they were like, tell us about yourself. Yeah, that's what they do.
They just interview all the criminals that come through on that high level. There's a whole department at the FBI that's just all about it.
Because he's killing in the woods. The guy's got a lisp.
Isn't that awesome? Isn't that amazing? The FBI guy did this and the local cop had been like, he's a partier. He likes going out on boats.
It was totally not even remotely close. He's my brother-in-law.
I'm positive. Wears a backwards hat.
Listen to a lot of Sammy Hagar. He's got a truck boat truck.
On March 29th, 1981, Ellen Marie Hansen and Stephen Hertel, students at UC Davis, were hiking in Santa Cruz. Now, this is about 80 miles south of Mount Tam.
Carpenter walked up to them and threatened them with a gun, demanding Ellen let him rape her. She was not down with the plan.
Steve begged to be let go, and then Carpenter shot Ellen point-blank twice in the head. Steve ran away, and he was shot in the neck, but he did not die.
Steve gave police a great description of Carpenter, unlike the fucking woman in the woods who was like, he looks like a hawk. Oh no.
She had seen someone be stabbed 12 times. Yeah.
That'll fuck it up. Makes you squint.
And then you can't get anybody's facial features correct. And she was in a tree the whole fucking time.
Oh, did I not mention she had grown into the tree? Oh. Yeah, she was part of the tree.
Oh, she was some kind of an orc thing? Was she from Middle Earth? She was an ant. Oh, was it ant? I got deep into it.
Others came forward and said they had seen Carpenter in the area and fleeing in a foreign car. Someone said

the foreign car was a Fiat.

Which is hilarious because it's a very popular Marin.

Do you remember that? Fiat.

A composite was

placed in newspapers and run on TVs.

So now they have this drawing out there. It's running everywhere.

The woman then called police and said

she had met that man

on a cruise to Japan

26 years

earlier. What?

And that was the woman in the forest.

You doubted her

that she came back hard.

She's back.

She's making right.

On her own.

And she said that the man had been

bothering her and her daughter with inappropriate behavior and he had a stutter and he was a ship's purser. And it was my dad.
And he used to be a fireman. What? Mr.
Gargarit. And she had his signature in a book, which she still had.

Why did that happen?

I don't know.

They used to love to get serial killer signatures

before they really kicked it off.

That was this thing in the 60s.

This is the point when you're writing a script

and you go, let's just hustle along.

What about a lady on a Chinese cruise

that met the guy 26 years old? Yeah, yeah, yeah. People don't go on cruises the guy 26 years yeah yeah yeah no no no just have him do it okay but there were a lot of men named David Carpenter in Northern California so Carpenter then grew a beard on May 2nd Heather Roxanne Skaggs told her boyfriend she's 20 what's going on over there oh I thought you guys were up something.
I saw it in the corner of my eye. I don't know.
You were looking at each other. Yeah, we're going to jump on your back.
But not right now. We're planning it for later.
Don't worry about it. I'm going to move my chair.
So Heather Roxanne Skaggs, 20, tells her boyfriend she's going to see David Carpenter to buy a used car she was a student at a place where Carpenter taught people how to use computer typesetting machines what the fuck kind of crazy time is this before leaving she gave her boyfriend the number and the address of David Carpenter and when she to return. Who the fuck does that unless they're creeped out by the guy, right? Yeah.
I mean, you're never like... Here's all the information of this person.
She did not return. The boyfriend went and confronted Carpenter, which is fucking ballsy beyond words.
Good for him. Did you kill my girlfriend? Carpenter said she had never come

and then the boyfriend called police. Carpenter's

name raised a flag, as did Heather

being Lord, and Carpenter looked

exactly like the composite drawing.

Police then contacted

his parole officer, who immediately realized

Carpenter fit into everything

police were saying. But just then,

when they called on the phone, and not at any

point earlier.

Oh my god!

You talking about Murdery David?

Wait a second!

He kept inviting me. Fuck, that guy creeps me out!

Shoot, you know what?

I should have thought of this before. I'm sorry.

I stopped watching the news because it

depresses me, but now I realize.

I didn't want to take it in all the time.

You know, he came in Wednesday covered in blood, and I was like, this seems... But then I had my book club.
And I don't know. It all just kind of slipped my mind.
I don't care about anything anymore. So, unfortunately...
This is where it's fucked up. Unfortunately, Carpenter...
This is where it's fucked up. I mean, this is where government records are like, really guys? Unfortunately, Carpenter had not shown up in the records of released inmates when they initially looked due to a technicality.
He'd been released by California prisons to serve a federal sentence, so he was technically in federal custody, so they didn't count him as a released prisoner. So they could have, with the records, found him.
Because that first woman he killed, he left his prison-issued glasses and they could have tracked him down right there. This is just like a Three's Company I saw once.
This insane misunderstanding. Except for...
Oh, you Ropers. Am I not? except for oh you ropers

so

the multi-agency task force

started following him

then one day they saw him carrying a bag and they approached him

and they told him he was under arrest

and at first he was confused and then he said

please don't hurt me

I bet they punched him right in the face. Oh, God.
The pieces quickly fell into place. There was tons of evidence.
Everyone who saw him was brought in to identify him. Stephen Hurdle, who had been shot in the neck, ID'd him out of a lineup.
Six out of seven witnesses did the same. Carpenter was formally charged in the murder and attempted murder in Santa Cruz.
At his arraignment, he stuttered so badly he had a difficult time answering the judge's questions, which was simply to agree that his name was as stated. Heather Scog's body was found a couple of weeks later.
His total number of murder victims was nine. He was tried in San Diego because of, you could not do it in Marin.
He was convicted and sentenced to die in the gas chamber. And he's still on death row in San Quentin.
Is he still alive? Still alive. And he's our next guest, everyone? Davey, get out here.
Get out here. You fucking scamp! You son of a bitch! What is your problem? Fuck! That's fucked up, man.
That was... Between that one and...
I mean, I'm sure you guys had the... Richard Ramirez...
Were you here then? That was fucking terrifying. No, I'm a baby.
I've never heard that one before. That was amazing.

No one knows about that one.

I've never heard of it. Do you want to hear something really weird?

When the Hillside Stranglers

were out in LA,

I was like, how the fuck can they call

them? We got our trailside time.

I literally had a moment of, you can't do that.

It's our thing.

It's your property.

For a year and a half, we didn't go near the place that we all hung out on. It's our thing.
It's your property. But yeah, that was like,

so for like a year and a half, we didn't go near

the place that we all hung out on.

That's crazy.

I bet you drank a lot less beer that summer.

Is it a summer? I don't know.

Well, I mean, a year and a half

is a...

What?

It's a long summer.

That's bananas. I've never heard of that before.
Okay, we're back dealing with true crime in a live show format. In a live and inappropriate format.
Right. Here we are.
Yeah. So that's Dave's story.
Do we have any case updates for this one? Oh, we do. So a minor update.
David Carpenter is 94 years old and remains on death row in San Quentin State Prison. Isn't that, but now he's one of the oldest inmates there.
I. So crazy.
I mean, yeah, the fact that you can last that long in prison, because I do think people talk about how prison kind of just ages you quickly for obvious reasons. I mean, is he thriving in there? That would be terrifying.
It's just so wild. And this man terrorized all of Northern California for a long time.
So he truly was a Zodiac type for everybody.

And like listening to that story and like he got away with so much for so long and how frustrating and like all those stories from the 70s and 80s always are where it's like, you know, they got out of prison in nine months. They didn't serve their full sentence.
They got out, they got away with it. It's just.
And also his whole kind of plan where he is up in this place, you know, like, especially like, I always just imagine Mount Tam. But that idea that it's just like you are basically, it's 1977.
And you're just kind of out in the wilderness that all these people enjoy and go to every single day. Like, it real thing up there and you're just hiding out waiting to be a monster totally that like yeah it's just it's worst case scenario and the serial killer kind of story world he's horrifying all right now let's get into your story this one is a classic and it's epic.
This is Karen's story. It's the Wineville Chicken Coop Murders.
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Well, I chose to, I wanted to do someone, uh, I wanted to do something really local. And so I

Googled Beverly Center

serial killer.

That was my dream.

I decided to shoot for the stars.

That's what I wanted.

It's just a guy

stalking the Armani store.

He's just pulling a piano wire

around guys that come out of the Armani store too much cologne there isn't one there isn't one i'm sorry i just thought maybe if there was like it was an old location of something from old Los Angeles, whatever.

But then I remembered one that's semi-local

and really awesome are

the Wineville Chicken Coop murders.

Do you guys know those?

It's what the Clint Eastwood movie The Changeling was based on.

If you don't know

if you saw that or not, let me reenact

Angelina Jolie's star turn

as playing

Christine Collins in The Changeling. My son! That was it.
She did that. Oh, that's all right.
That's all right. Don't clap.
It was too, it was much too loud. But that's exactly how she did it in the movie 50 times.
Yeah. Denise was like, can we get the My Son for you again? Can we hear that four more times? She was in that movie.
I remember watching it and going, she's distractingly beautiful. We were like, why would she be? You're like, nothing bad ever happened to her.
No, nothing bad ever happens to this person. The woman who was the mother wasn't that hot.
It wasn't like a hot mom. She was not a hot mom.
No. And that's all you wanted.
It's fine. But when you hear the...
You didn't say it like it was funny. But when you hear this story at the...
Fair enough. At the end of the story, you'll think, oh, I wish the mom had been hotter.
But go ahead. After you hear about this horrible child murder and death, you're going to be like, is the mom an eight or above yeah because if this if we're in a butterface situation you know what i mean turn this bug out i just shamed the shit out of her the only way we could have sympathy for her is if she was angelina jolie hot i just um there is a book by a man named anthony flacco uh called the road out of hell, Sanford Clark and the True Story of the Wineville Chicken Murders.
It's got very good reviews on Amazon. I don't have time to read it, but if you want to, if you're looking for facts...
I feel like murders are chickens. Yeah.
Chickens are murdered every day in this country. No, no, no, no.
This isn't my vegan podcast festival.

This is, just to give you a sense,

this was such a horrible crime

and such a stain on the community

that Wineville permanently changed its name.

It's now called Mira Loma.

Oh, shit.

That's how huge this was and bad it was.

It was 1926.

Changed all the signs and everything. Yo, yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's how huge this was and bad it was. It was 1926.

Changed all the signs and everything.

Yo, yeah, yeah, yeah.

The two signs they have.

They use the same letters.

They just kind of rearranged them into Mira Loma.

What can we turn this into?

We need a town with a bunch of bells.

We can flip the W upside down.

Mira.

Wait. No, is it? Yep, it's just upside down wine bell.
I can see it right here. This is great.
All right. Gordon Northcutt was 17 years old when he moved to Los Angeles from Canada with his parents and when he was 19 he asked his dad to buy him a chicken ranch in Wineville as you do when you're 19 because you're like how am I punk rock chickens that's how I'm going to do it I'll feed them and and water them.
Take care of the land. So two years later, he went back up to Canada and convinced his sister, who still lived there, to let him take her son, his 13-year-old nephew, Sanford Clark, back down to California to help him work on the chicken ranch and raise the chickens.
What? Yeah. Like, hey, I need some labor.
What's your kid doing? Yes. It was the 20s, and so it was kind of common for young boys to have jobs and work and help the family out.
In any other situation, when your uncle isn't a fucking creep-ass murderer, it would be, like, good for the kid. Right.
But, like, but there's always that shit. Yeah.
There's always that one time. Motherfucker.

As I wrote here,

the problem was Gordon Northcutt

was the bad kind of uncle.

Oh, no.

Oh, get used to it.

This is fucking dark as shit.

That was an uncle joke.

Brace yourself.

As a teen in Canada,

he was accused of molesting

a very young boy,

but his mother claimed

that he was innocent

and would never be able to do anything like that,

so the police did not charge him.

Oh.

God, what?

Mommy was like, nope.

I mean, which, you know, I used to be very bitter

that my mother didn't participate in my life enough.

Like, she didn't come to my plays and stuff.

She was never at, like, a softball game.

And then I read this story of Gordon and his mother, and I'm like, I think it's for the best. The rest of the family knew that he was volatile and he once even beat up his own father.
And for that, he got a chicken ranch. You know what? I get that.
That's something I get. That's okay.
No, I know. His father actually ended up spending the back half of his life in an insane asylum.
So the family had a lot of mental illness and a lot of criminals. He had two.
Gordon had two uncles that were also in San Quentin. So not the greatest group from Canada.
Usually you people are so lovely and polite with your delicious chocolate but this guy was a fucking lunatic all right so he um brought sanford back down to work on the chicken ranch and immediately began abusing and raping him um they would also together he would make sanford drive into los angeles with. And so then they would drive around neighborhoods and he would ask boys if they needed extra money, if they wanted to take a job, if they needed extra money.
And the boys would get in the car because Sanford, the young boy, was already in the car. No, no, no.
Yeah, this was before. Stranger danger wasn't even on anyone's mind.
They were like strangers back then go meet yourself a stranger young america was the posters on every bus stop all right uh so he did that so much that he realized he would go into either riverside county or la and pick up boys molest them attack them and then bring them back to their neighborhood. And just drop them off? Catch and release, right? Yes.
But he slowly started to... Yeah.
But he slowly started to realize that that was incredibly dangerous. And that's when, which is how it always goes with serial killers, that's when itated get rid of the evidence yeah don't leave a fucking witness yeah um so he also did a thing where he put a help wanted out in the paper asking young boy young boys to come and work on his chicken ranch and no one was like uh that's a fucking issue yeah everyone's like no i think young boys love chickens i...
It's probably best. Hey, Dad, there's a man with a bunch of chickens.
Can I go? Go on, son! Yippee! Um, yeah, I wrote here like a sort of murder postmates. That's awful.
Boo! Boo, Karen! Well, it's just Craigslist. Karen's turning on the audience.
It's how I feel my most comfortable. So he did this for two years.
And boys were disappearing without a trace. Do we know how many boys? Well, yes, eventually.
But they don't know the exact number because he was so fucking crazy that when he finally went to court he kept admitting to all the murders then saying he didn't do it then saying he did four then saying he did 50 um and the problem was he was so incredibly thorough he what he did was he would kill kill them take their bodies out to the desert and burn them and then take the bones from whatever wherever he burned them and then dispose of them on the ranch. When the cops were finally raided the ranch and were looking, they were having to piece together tiny shards of bone from all different people.
This thing is a fucking crazy nightmare. There's tons of buttons out in the lobby if you need any.
Yeah, I was going to say, I was about to release some balloons. I'm not going to do that now.
So they found a decapitated teenager's body in a burlap sack on the side of the road in La Puente. Why did he leave him there? Why did he leave a decapitated boy? They think that happened because he found him, attacked him, killed him in all one spot and then decapitated him thinking if they don't have the head, they won't ever find out who it is.
Interesting. It's a little lazy though considering how thorough he is.
Yeah, escalating. Well, this was his first one.
So, you know, he's just getting warmed up. Okay.
So don't you worry. So then in March, that's when he, Walter Collins was going to the movies.
His mom had given him some money. She went to work.
He was walking down to the movies and he pulled his old, do you want to, do you need extra money thing? Yeah, chickens get in the car. And he did.
So he disappeared without a trace. Because his mom was coming back from work really soon.
It wasn't like some long thing that he was by himself. And that story, his disappearance, and the manhunt that happened after that just blew up.
It was huge. And it was a nationwide story.
Then in May, two brothers, Lewis and and nelson winslow age 10 and 12 disappeared on their walk home from uh their model yacht club meeting in pomona um i mean it was a great meeting yeah the different yachts that were discussed when you think of yacht clubs you think pomona yeah you know for know? For sure. You do.
Yeah. For sure.
The rich, the elite.

So the Walter Collins story is the one that gets focused on in The Changeling. And it is the most fascinating because these things that happen in it are so fucking crazy, aside from the kidnapping and murder itself.
So basically, the LAPD at this same time was under investigation for mass corruption. So they were already had really bad press.
They were, you know, they were really doing badly. And then Walter Collins disappearance, it was five months and they still hadn't found him or any trace.
They had no clues whatsoever. So this is when they were,

they were the,

the mayor and the police chief were selling.

You could buy to become a cop.

And,

and once you were a cop and you could buy your way up.

So there were no like actual guys who were doing law enforcement.

You just paid and then you become a detective.

Yeah.

Now they pay you $30,000 a year and everyone's happy. What just happened? I'm sorry.
Go ahead and take that. Bye.
Go on. Well, actually, you know, what's funny is that's how my mother's great-grandfather, I don't know how far away that is from me, but that's how he got into the Oakland Police Department.
Yeah, he's a super crooked cop. I come from a long line of crooked cops.
Well, yeah, they were already doing bad soap. Now, this is an example of the LAPD.
They've had a hard time with it. They've mishandled many many, many things as we all know.
This one is unbelievable. So after five months, they don't have a body.
They don't have clues. They have nothing.
So they get a phone call that they have found a boy in DeKalb, Illinois, who is claiming to be Walter Collins. Okay.
We're in. So they're like, this is amazing.
So they do phone calls and they... So the police department orchestrates this huge press conference at the train station when he's going to show up and it's going to be like, and the happy reunion and the cops are the ones that did it.
So when the boy walks off, everyone's seen the movie, or if you have, the boy walks off the train and Christine Collins is is staying there and she's like that's not my son uh because it wasn't her son but he was in illinois so the cop says why don't you take him home and try him out for a couple weeks she's like what does that even mean yeah it's so crazy what it's basically saying is politics is more important than anything move out of the picture frame and maybe women are so crazy but they must have been like no he's not your boy we need this one we need a win what's the diff man just take one the LA Weekly's here we're gonna get our picture in every paper mean lie where did that boy come from I'm like, it's all fucked one. Please, the LA Weekly's here.
We're going to get our picture in every paper.

Meanwhile, where did that boy come from?

Like, it's all fucked up. I tell you.

Well, here we go.

So, of course,

three weeks later, when she's living in a house

with a boy who's pretending to be her son,

which, can you imagine how creepy that is?

He's pretending, and he won't

drop it. And she's sitting in the other room

like, um, okay.

So,

she goes back. Future killer.
Yeah. In the house also.
He's up to no good. So she goes back to Captain J.J.
Jones, who was the man in charge at the time. Yeah.
And she has Walter's dental records. She has signed affidavits from witnesses who have met the son and say, this is not Walter Collins.
She's a big stack of evidence. It's not him.
And so the police chief did what any good civil servant would do in a situation like that. He threw her in a mental institution.
Well, she was cuckoo. I mean, for justice.
So finally, they get it out. And the only reason that any of this got brought to light is because she, when Walter first went missing, there was this, it's a priest, or he was like a pastor.
And I'm not going to be able to say his name because it's crazy. It looks like someone had a stroke as they were typing on Murderpedia.
It's like, that's not Polish and it's not Czech. There's a lot of V's and E's and Z's.
So I was like, I'm not even going to cut and paste that. That's how much I can't handle that name.
I support that. But he basically was the one that got it on all the radio shows and stuff.
He made it because every Sunday he had a radio show and so he talked about finding walter collins all the time so then when she was put into the mental institution he was like advocating for her and trying to get her out so eventually they get out of the boy um that he had run away from home because he had a really mean stepmother and he had been on the road for like three weeks by himself, a nine-year-old kid.

And he was somewhere,

there was like basically he was in a restaurant in DeKalb and like an old hobo that was in the restaurant with him

was like, you look like that boy that's missing in California.

And then the little boy hears California and goes,

I'm going to go to California.

I'm going to say I'm him and go to California

and meet Tom Mix, my favorite cowboy from the movies.

And so he tells the guy, I am Walter Collins.

And so he calls the cops and Christine paid for his train ticket

to come out.

This kid is smarter than all of us.

Yes, for sure.

The kid got what he wanted.

Everyone else is fucked, right?

Yes.

Did he meet the cowboy?

He got to be in four Tom Mix films.

No.

Karen, we

believed you.

It really did believe me.

I believed you. You did?

Karen's always lying,

as she says. Now I want to lie

more.

This fucking thing. All right.
So anyway, simultaneously, Sanford Clark's sister, Jessie, had been getting letters from him, but not that often. He told her he would write her all the time, but he wasn't writing her all the time, and the things that he was writing in the letters did not sound like him at all.
It was very vague information. He wouldn't say if he was okay.
So she was getting worried up in Canada. So she decided, I'm going to go down and pay them a visit.
And when she shows up, she's like, this is bad news. Something is terribly wrong.
Because it smelled like dead boy everywhere.

Yeah.

Imagine how fucked up the place must have been if he's scattering boy bones.

I mean, well, no, it's going to be like a Texas Chainsaw Massacre-esque situation inside the house.

She was horrified by their house living conditions and by the fact that clearly this, at this time 14 year old boy was like made to work like hard labor every day and looked terrible like was shaken and whatever so she one night when the bad uncle was asleep she gets him to tell her what's going on and the story that he tells her is so horrifying she cannot believe it but they realize they can't do anything while she's still there because he'll probably just kill both of them. So she acted like nothing happened.
She didn't know anything. Then she went back to Canada and they went to the American consulate.
Did she take the boy with her? No. No.
This was the two of their... It jesse and sanford's plan that they couldn't act like anything happened because he would kill them right but why i can't justify her choices karen i wish i could i believe in them karen god damn it tell us i know so I wish I could.
So they contact the American consulate. The American consulate calls the LAPD.
Something else comes up about immigration, so they end up sending two immigration officers out to the ranch. And as they're heading out, it's a big, long driveway to get to the house.
So Gordon sees the cars coming and tells Sanford,

start to go. it's a big long driveway to get to the house so Sanford so Gordon sees the cars coming and tells Sanford stall them I'm running for the tree line and if you don't stall them I'll shoot you from the tree line and then he takes off running and he ends up getting escaping meeting up with his mother and escaping to Canada then the cops get Sanford and they're holding him and he starts telling them everything.
I mean, the stories are horrifying. It's little boys held in chicken coops.
Him making Sanford either kill the little boys with him or do it himself so that he would also be complicit and not tell. So basically he had this little boy convinced that if he said anything he was the one that was going to go to jail.
It's super crazy. Fuck.
We have an audience. This is so fucked up.
I just realized that. Well this is, I mean, what are we going to do? This is what we do.
No, I know. They know.

They're just making noises.

Sometimes they laugh at home and sometimes they just groan

and they fall on the floor.

Fuck you guys.

We just have to deal with all of it.

So when the police raided the farm,

they found axes covered in blood

and farm equipment

that was coated in blood and human hair. There were bone fragments in several shallow graves around the ranch, and almost all of them were linked to male children.
It was later proven that the unidentified Mexican boy whose head had been chopped off was one of Northcott's first victims, and police later identified him as Alvin Gauthier. Sanford testified that Gordon made him burn the head and crush the skull and scatter the bones.
Inside the house, they found a book that was believed to belong to the Winslow brothers and several letters the boys tried to write to their parents, which is a horrifying idea that he's keeping them long enough that he's going in and going like, you can write a letter to your parents if you want to. While nothing of walter collins was discovered sanford clark remained adamant that he had been one of the boys kept hostage on the farm and according to the um i'm sorry the police could only only had enough evidence to prove three murders which were the winslow brothers and alvin gothea but they believe at one point, Gordon admitted to 20.
They believe that there could be many, many more. Because he basically...
Well, how long did this go on? For two years. I mean, there's tons more.
Yeah. And they just can't...
They're scattered. It's like they basically built it for two Hyde bodies, this ranch.
It's crazy. So, I know, right?

So his mother, Sarah,

was convicted of killing Walter Collins.

So it turns out when they go up to

extradite him from Canada, he's caught

with his mother. And the mother

says, I killed Walter Collins,

and I killed a bunch of them.

That's a great mom.

It's a mom that cares about her kids. It's a mom who is willing to participate.
Right. She...
We're saying the same thing, right? Yes, I think so. This is why I can't be a mom.
I'd be like, take this fucking psycho. You know what? You do your murdering out in the chicken coop.
I don't want to be a part of it. No, I will not take the blame.
No, she was one of the ones who said, who encouraged him to kill his victims. She was there from the beginning.
This is what, according to Sanford, she was in from the beginning and was participating the whole time. When they were on trial, she came out and said that she and she and gordon were lovers she said that she said that gordon was the incestuous son of her husband and her daughter and i mean it was the apparently the trial was in total insanity and total chaos and every day there were like different horrifying headlines and she ended up uh she was sentenced to life imprisonment, but she was paroled after 12 years.
Let's get her back. What? Fucking.
It was what I thought was proper at the time. That was a joke where I'm the judge now.
I feel like my story was like an explosion of glitter compared to yours. That's right.
During his trial, Gordon demanded to represent himself, so his two lawyers quit, and then he cross-examined himself. Oh, my God.
Because he's insane. And probably, like, grilling himself.
Why did you kill the boys? I didn't kill the boys! He was found guilty and he was hanged at San Quentin in February of 1929. They got that done fast.
They were like, goodbye. And as we've all seen, Walter Collins' mother did go to San Quentin on the day he was being hanged to beg him to please tell her if he killed her son or not.
And he fucked with her until they put the bag on his head and walked him up the stairs. So she believed for the rest of her life there was a possibility that her son was alive.
That poor baby. I decided to end on the downest note I possibly find.
He went out strong. Right? That strong is just as good as...

You got a little bit of credit.

Yeah.

He went out.

He's like, you know what?

I'm going to stay true to myself.

I'm a fucking total asshole.

Yeah.

I'm taking it all the way to the chair.

He's fucking Kanye over here.

What's yours, Georgia?

Okay, that was great.

It's great the right word.

Okay.

We are back in.

Oh, what a fucking.

What a.

Like, it sounds like a Stephen King book, you know.

It's every parent's nightmare.

It is the wildest.

Like, no, no, we're not going to look into this.

We're going to put a woman into a mental institution instead of just trying to help her in any way. You insisting that that is not your son and other people agreeing with you? Well, too bad.
You're wrong. And then they put her in a mental institution.
What the fuck? So crazy. So there's no updates for this story.

It's been over for a long time.

Although I do definitely recommend watching The Changeling because that movie, even though I was, you know, making a lot of jokes about Angelina Jolie's performance, you know, in certain parts. It really kind of like the idea that you could watch and as a true crime like listener kind of follow that thing of like, oh, these are children getting picked off the street.
Yeah. The timing of it, everything about it is so scary.
The corruption of the LAPD, everything going on. It's like almost like they're working in tandem, but they're not.
They're just like the perfect thing for a serial killer to be working in that environment.

So it's like, oh, yeah, I can just drive out to my unincorporated city where my farm is and put yet one more boy into a barn where these children are waiting.

I mean, that's just like the scariest thing.

While you're watching The Changeling, keep an eye out for a cameo by comedian Ricky Lindholm as well. Oh, what's she in? She's a nurse in the mental institution.
Oh my god. Wow.
I know. All right.
Well, now we're going on to story number three for this episode. Story number three.
Horrible story number three. We didn't yet know the pattern of tell a good, like a somewhat up end for everyone.
Yes. And we won't have that for many hundreds of episodes.
Well, especially for live. Yes.
This being the kickoff of our live journey where, first of all, and first and foremost, it was like, yeah, we have to now go do live shows, which I, of course, was at least used to in terms of like what that might feel like, what we might have to be doing. But like we can all podcast.
But like when you invite 300 people to watch you, it changes the chemistry of any conversation, obviously. Then we invite a guest like there couldn't be more variables coming at us that night.
It was wild. I am glad, though, that this was our first live show instead of, like, the Chicago 2000 theater, like, standing ovation thing.
Because, like, for me, who's, like, I'm not a stand-up comedian. I'm not used to performing in front of, you know, a fucking conference room full of people.
Like, having you and Dave there, like, I could count on you guys. I could let you guys take over and I could rely on you guys.
And it was the crowd was kind of smallish. So it was like friends.
Yes. And it felt a lot less like there was a lot less pressure.
Yes, for sure. I'm really I'm glad that this was my first live show.
Me too. And I think it's like, I think it was the perfect one because ultimately we don't, we're not standups.

We are there to do a live podcast.

So we're supposed to, like our conversation is the most important thing. Our combined, what we do together is what people want to see.

Not like individual people doing a little show.

It's like, it's like how we engage.

I also think Dave Anthony was the perfect guest because he gets all of that. He also knows me really well.
Exactly. And he kind of was just like, here's, how are we going to support any, he's been doing podcasts so long.
He's just there like, how are we going to make this a good podcast? And he knows. Yeah.
And I do remember talking with Vince on the way over and just being like, I'm going to let these two professional comedians like do their thing. I'm not going to, I hate it when you, I'm not going to try to get in there with them and, you know, have the last word and get in there.
I'm just like, I'm going to rely on them and I'm going to be myself. And you did great.
I mean, Alison, when Alison and I were just kind of going over this, she's like, Georgia was so funny. And like, you would have never known that it was her first, like, or both of your first anything.
And I was just like, yeah, because I think that's the thing. Is it like, I think you are a natural.
I think I've always told you that. Where it's like all of these, you have amazing, and I'm sorry to say trauma instincts, where you're like, how do I need to adapt? How do I need to change? I can do this.
And you're so good. Thank you.
Yeah. So essentially, you're just like, how do I hang? And you know how to be funny, especially conversationally funny.
So you didn't have anything to worry about. But it was a great relief to be like, oh, this of course i absolutely want to do but for some people is pure torture totally totally yeah i miss it well we still have another uh 45 hours 45 hours of this episode to go so so now it's time for georgia's story about mark aaron rust All right, I'm going fucking, I'm going back to Australia.
Okay. Because you did research here about the last one and by the way, that one was fucking awesome.
Just throwing that out there. Thank you.
Australia, you got some fucked up shit going on over there, man. So Mark Aaron Rust, fucking murderer.

He was born.

I mean.

You're not going to believe this.

Don't ease into it.

All right.

Don't creep up on that story. You know the theme of this podcast?

No?

So he was born in 1965.

He is a self-described loner.

He was 13 when he started following girls

while fascinating about having sex with them.

And he started exposing himself to women as a teen.

And he really liked the reaction of the women

that he would expose.

Like it's so creepy.

Like he would masturbate in front of them and be like,

love that they were shocked and horrified.

That's the,

yeah,

that's the whole thing.

That's fucked up,

man.

Yeah.

All right.

He's described it as obese,

disheveled,

odorous man who expressed his limited vocabulary in a,

in a,

in a monotone.

He was like a creepy,

creepy,

creepy. Was this written by a high school cheerleader? She's mean.
Georgia Hartstark. So he was charged seven times with indecency offenses but was only fined, never convicted.
What year is this? Well, he was born in 65. It's probably like mid to late 70s, early 80s.
I mean, everything was cool in the 70s. I get it.
Yeah. They just were like, go ahead.
So he was creepy. He was weird.
He married twice because... They always do.
They always fucking do. How? They must be great at small talk.
You know what I mean? He's like a smelly... He's like a...
I love bowling. It works.
It's about pheromones. Okay, so after his after his first his second marriage ended his his wife at the time's daughter his stepdaughter claimed he had sexually assaulted her he was never charged but had to attend sessions with a sex offenders treatment program but he left halfway through the first session because he thought the program was stupid yeah but that's i mean let's not judge it until we know yeah yeah until we take the program right so he was working as a taxi driver in so this is april 1999 and so maya jackick she's 30 and she's walking in the neighborhood where he's driving a taxi.
Don't look at my notes. It's too late.
I've read them all upside down. All right.
This is good. She's a fucking sweet angel.
She was born in Croatia in 69 and she grew up in 1990. She fled the country due to the civil war with Serbia.
So she's like getting a better start in Australia. She's a sales assistant in a clothing store.
And she's in this neighborhood for some fucking reason. It's an upper class neighborhood.
He sees her. I like the details.
And he says to her, he says, want a lift? In an Australian accent. Like a LL.
Do it. I can't do that.
Come on, do accent. You want a lift, mate? There it is.
There we go. That was Peaky Blinders.
And she's staying sexy and she's like, fuck yourself. And he says, how about a root? Which I guess in Australian means like...
Root means fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And she says no and keeps walking. He drives after her and parks in a spot she had to walk by.
He exposes herself to him and wanting to see her horrified face. And this fucking amazing person scoffed at him.
No. Not with the guy.
Not what he wants to have happen. No.
Oh, she was fine. No, he does.
He snaps, grabs her, pulls her into this like bushy area and tries to rape her. And it escalated to murder when he chokes her to death.
Then he covers her body. She's like in the bushes.
He covers her. But he wanted her to be found in a creepy, fucked up

way, and it's like an abandoned building.

So he calls from a payphone

nearby to

911

in this country.

Thank you.

And he says,

hey, I was just walking by, and there's a body.

I see a body.

And

two of these things happened, and the cops didn't find her body. And so finally, he fucking, five days later, he fucking, after him calling multiple times, he puts a note like under a cop's windshield that says like, hi, there's a...
He says, there's a dead girl's body in the... He puts an arrow basically pointing to where it is.
He literally, the last phone call, he's like, do I have to draw you a map? And he's like, I'm drawing a map. I've now engraved an invitation for you to come and see the body.
It's so sad. Yes.
And then they finally find her. But they realize that the calls and the fucking note has to do...
Clearly it's not. They just hear from across the street, finally! So the release to the public, nobody fucking identifies the note or the voice, the calls.
Six days later, the body's found. So he's in jail in late 1999 for trespassing, released on parole in 2001.
Ten days later after that, he grabs a woman and rapes her and sexually assaults her. And then, but she got out.
She got away from him? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Megumi Suzuki, she's an 18-year-old, smart, wonderful Japanese exchange student attending college in Adelaide in 2001.
She's going to be a counselor for internet. Like, she's a good fucking person, you know? And on August 3rd, she leaves class, and she's waiting at a bus stop, and Rust fucking spots her.
And he grabs her, tries to rape her, and he couldn't get an erection, which you know pisses people like this off, right? Pisses me. I feel like that's across the board.
Tell us. Tell us everything.
So he tries to strangle her, but he can't. And so he bashed her head with a fucking rock.
I know, baby angel. And then he wraps her body in sheets.
And so he puts her in a rubbish bin in a trash bin for everyone here nearby and she's reported missing her parents were like so sweet fly from japan to look for her her purse is found like shortly after but her body's not fine and her like poor boyfriend is like suspected of the whole thing and is like freaking out um they search for her And at that point on August 16th he cuts the power to an office building and he goes in and there's one female alone in the office building. Holy fuck.
He went full fucking Halloween. Yeah, don't work late is the fucking secret.
I don't like this at all. No.
She's not dead, though. Okay, okay, okay.
It's his last victim. She's raped.
He like fucking overcame her. And at one point, he hands her the knife that he has to hold while he does his unbuttoned stuff.
Because he was like, can you hold this while I take off my shirt? Yes. She was like, okay.
But the only reason she's alive is because she was like, she went along with it. She didn't look at his face.
She didn't stab him with it? No. Okay.
I know. It's bananas.
It's this whole thing of like, do you like fight for your life and do anything you can or do you like go along with it? Well, she made the right choice. But who knows what that would have been.
It's so fucking insane to me. I can't.
So he didn't harm her. And I do.
And I have insomnia. So this is how he gets caught.
So that crime happens and then he leaves her and just leaves? He goes.

Doesn't kill her. She's

alive. And then

on the news that they're like,

they keep playing his recording of

his voice over and over again and

showing the note to see

the handwriting. His

Rusk's brother fucking hears

it and sees it. From the handwriting?

Yeah.

He hears the voice.

And he's like, I listened to it like 10 times.

I went in the other room and played it.

So I could like, he just was like freaking out about it.

It's Rusky, mate.

That's what he said.

Yeah, but he was like, but he knew his brother had like maybe molested his

But also, like I have a cousin.

Yeah. And if I heard this story, I'd be like, yeah.
Like there are people in your family who are like, okay, I got my eye on you. But the secret, the secret is it's never who you think it is, which makes me suspect everyone who I don't think it is.
But this guy is that, that guy who talks in the monotone voice and that weirdness. I literally have a cousin like this and I'm like, okay.
I wouldn't be surprised if they were like 40 bodies. Come on.
And his brother is interviewed in one of these ID shows and he's like a normal sweet dude and he's like, I was out of town for a long time and then I came back and the news was playing this shit and I was like, oh fuck. He knows it's his brother.
And then he sees the writing sample. He goes to the police and brings a letter that his brother had written him and they match it up.
But this is only for the first murder. But fucking good for him because most...
What? No, but most people in a family

would be like, it's not him

and convince themselves it's not him.

Would you turn your family

member in if you thought it was them?

Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Fuck yeah.

A fucking murderer? Yeah, I don't.

You would.

Yes, I would.

I would.

I'll take this question. i absolutely would all right because here's the thing when you it's like what you're saying you we i think everybody at least knows a person or has a relative or whatever where you're just like i it's just like there's something going on so it's not like you'd be you know in all the time or whatever.
But if there was something where it's like

undeniable evidence A and undeniable

evidence B and terrible

result, you have to get those people

off the street. And even if you do

it and you turn them in and it's not them

and it's fine, it's like at least you tried something.

Yeah, I mean Christmas is weird. It's so hard.

There's a lot to talk about, you know.

I got you a really big gift freedom exoneration all right so he goes to they figure out it's him they fucking arrest him and while he's in prison uh he confesses to a cellmate about megumi's murder because he can't fucking he needs to tell someone about Also, he had her, this is the second woman because he's convicted on the first one because of her, of the calls. The second woman, they didn't even know it was connected.
And they, and he has her CD player in his cell. In his cell? What? I mean, I'm going to, I need What? What? His cell.
But no, I mean, I'm going to... I need...
What? Supposedly they let CD players into fucking prisoner cells. But now I'm like, it's a good idea because he brought her possessions into his cell.
And her parents were like, here's the receipt with the fucking number on it. Oh they were able to match it up.
Yeah. Somebody did some good work there.
Seriously. So he had put her in a rubbish bin and then they tracked the rubbish bin down.
They figured out when that bin had gone to the dump, the cops fucking went through

bail by bail until they found

the area where she had

been in the dump.

So,

let's see, 11 days after they started

searching, after

10,000 tons, but it's

T-O-N-N-E-S, so I don't know if it's the same thing

as tons. How many is that?

I mean, if I, I was just in Australia, but if I know correctly, that's about eight teaspoons. After all of that, under all that rubbish, they fucking find her.
That's pretty fucking amazing. It's amazing.
Not to disparage American cops, but I also think there's a financial aspect where they just go, all right. Yeah.
Lost cause. Go ahead and not look in the garbage dump.
Lost cause. Yeah.
Totally. They find her, all of this stuff.
And when they asked her why he killed her, he says, because I did. Piece of shit, clearly.

He's sentenced to two concurrent life

sentences without parole. He pled

guilty to the murders of both the women,

Maya Jackick

and Megumi Suzuki.

He filed an application seeking

the imposition of a

non-parole period

for killing them, but everyone's

like, everyone in Australia is like, fuck you, that's never going to happen. So he's in prison forever.
Fuck him. Fuck him.
When you did your last Australia story, did someone go, you got to know about this Australian guy?

No.

They didn't?

No.

I just, I have insomnia and I search murders constantly.

Maybe that's why you have insomnia.

Oh, I'm sure it's not.

Wait, what?

I never thought about that.

Have you seen all the datelines?

All of them.

Are you in love with Keith Morrison?

Oh my God.

Keith leans on things.

Did you know this?

He really loves to lean.

There's an Instagram called Keith leans on things

and it's just Keith Morris leaning on things.

That's so badass.

Like screen grabs.

And then he came to the woman's house

who made that Instagram

and they lean on each other.

She's my hero.

My hero.

That's pretty great.

I don't know how we're doing on time.

I think we're getting the...

Stop it.

Oh, that light means...

I feel super dirty.

I know, I know, I know.

Apologize again to all of us.

In the last dollop we put up, there were approximately a million penguins turned into oil. What's this? It's a story I did.
It took me two days to get over that. It might take me longer to get over this.
We exonerate you. Don't you feel good right now? You're doing good.
You know what's funny is years ago I was talking to Karen about comedy and she was like... She was like...
He just did a joke about child murder and I just don't think it's funny and I don't think people should talk about it. No, not our Karen.
People change, obviously. This one? This is a lie.
There's no way I said that ever. Who was it? Ray James? Yeah.
I was not mad about the child murder. This is not the Karen I know.
I was using that topic as an excuse to hate a person. It's what we do.
It's what we do. I don't do it anymore.
Can I say thank you for coming to the podcast festival and supporting this podcast? Thank you. Because we booked these guys really early on when they started popping up.
I was like, I feel like something's happening here. And sure enough, a lot of people are fucking crazy.
And now we want a lot of money. My wife is a total murderer.
I know, we've talked about it. She's all about the murders.
I love it. It makes me so happy.
I know, thank you guys so much for fucking... Right? Thank you so much.
This is our first live show. This is so fucking exciting.
It was really awesome. Of many, of many.
I hope so. Thank you Dave Anthony for being a great first guest.
A perfect first guest. Yeah.
And I guess now we tell you to stay sexy.

And don't get murdered.

But I have Elvis on the...

Wait, hold on.

Here we go.

Here we go.

Wait, do it again.

Stay sexy.

And don't get murdered.

This is what she tried to play for Gareth backstage.

Bye. This is what she tried.
She tried to play it for Gareth backstage. Bye! Okay, we're back.
Any case updates on the third story of the first live show? If you're still awake and with us, thank you. There's no updates on the case.
Mark Aaron Rust remains incarcerated in Australia, serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole for the murders of Maya Jake and Megumi Suzuki. Well, so that's just, he's still alive too.
Yeah, that's so weird. And also this, because our naming structure that we just named the live shows live from wherever to take a little work off our plate.
Yeah. There's really no need to rename this.
It's like if we renamed it anything, it'd be like our first live podcast. Look at us go.
Do you remember though? And this is how well I remember it. We went to Norm's after on La Cienega.
Did we really? Do you remember?

We all went to Norm's.

You, me, and Vince, and probably Stephen went to Norm's.

Nice.

And did you get a steak for $6.99?

Probably with an onion ring on it.

Yes.

I love it.

Nice one.

That's definitely a place to visit if you come to LA.

Go to Norm's.

I love that.

All right.

Well, thanks, you guys, for listening for three hours to that episode.

Yeah.

And stay sexy.

And don't get murdered.

Goodbye.

Elvis, do you want a cookie?

Me siento muy sola.

Me da vergüenza hablar de eso.

¿Cómo ayudaré a mis hijos si no puedo con mi vida? No recuerdo la vida sin estrés. ¿Cómo ayudaré a mis hijos sin estrés? Cuando tus pensamientos y tus emociones te sobrepasen, pide ayuda.
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