Ep 265: Rick Astley

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Welcome to the off-menu podcast, taking the lasagna sheets of conversation, the bolognese of humor.

You've done this one, surely.

All right.

Just that, then.

Yeah, see, I've not done that, have I?

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No, you've not, to be fair.

So, so, haha.

Just lasagna sheets and bolognese and the lasagna sheets are raw.

So, enjoy that.

Enjoy that.

That's a gamble.

My name is James Agaster.

Together, we're in a dream restaurant, and every single week we invite the guests and ask them their favourite, ever started main course dessert, side dish, and drink, not in that order.

And this week, our guest is Rick Astley.

Rick Astley, of course it is.

Legendary singer,

musical artiste.

Yes, absolutely.

Everyone knows Rick Astley.

I mean, obviously, he's a massive hit.

Never going to give you up.

Yeah.

But also...

A recent, like, lovely, like, collective memory of all the people who went to Glastonbury, went to see Rick and Blossoms do a set where they covered Smith's songs.

Yes.

He is well loved across the nation, James.

Extremely well loved.

He's also got one toe dipped in the world of food and drink as well, which might come up.

So, yeah.

Is that so?

Yeah.

Rick's book, Never, is out on the 10th of October.

That is published by Macmillan, and it is, as it describes, James, the autobiography of Rick Astley.

Yes, covers struggles with fame and everything in between.

Absolutely.

Looking forward to reading that.

Looking forward to meeting Rick.

But we will kick him out of the restaurant.

If he picks a secret ingredient that we have previously agreed upon, he will not be allowed to rick roll our podcast.

Yes.

True.

And the secret ingredient this week is seven up because we're never going to give him seven up.

We're never going to give you seven up, Rick.

Is that good?

I think that's great.

I think it's good.

One of the best ones we've come up with.

Yeah, I think so, yeah.

Because if he says seven up.

Yeah.

And we go, never going to give you seven up.

He'll go, oh, right.

And then we'll go, no, get out.

Yeah, no, really.

We're not ever going to.

Yeah, we're never going to.

We'll be pre-disgusting.

Yeah, yeah.

I get you out.

I think that would be funny.

I personally don't mind 7-up.

Yeah.

Or Sprite.

You know, I don't have a preference between the two.

7-up.

7-Up.

I think it's softer.

I think Sprite is more aggressive with the bubbles.

Yeah, and you've got a soft mouth.

I've got a soft mouth, and you ought to treat it softly.

Yeah.

You've got a baby in your mouth, haven't you?

Yeah, absolutely.

Little baby mouth.

Find O Dido.

Looking forward to meeting Rick.

This is the off-menu menu of Rick Astley.

Welcome, Rick, to the Dream Restaurant.

Thank you.

It's nice to be here.

Welcome, Rick Ashley to the Dream Restaurant.

We've been expecting you for some time.

Some time.

Okay.

Now's the right time.

Let's do it.

Now, it's always the right time when it happens, right?

Exactly.

Sorry to get philosophical so quickly off the side.

I like seeing this deeper side of you.

Thank you very much.

This is the way you're putting it philosophical, mate.

It's always right at the right time when it happens.

Indeed.

I'll go with that.

I'll go with that.

Sounds like the title of an album, doesn't it?

Yeah, we could do an album together.

We could.

You play drums, don't you?

I play drums.

Yes, yes.

I've just played.

Ed plays the bassoon.

Grade two bassoon.

So

if you want that on there, do you think you could ever use a bassoon in your album?

Bassoon's the long.

It's like the one, but it's got the

very thin mouthpiece.

It's got the thin mouthpiece.

It's like a massive oboe, basically.

Massive oboe.

Wow.

Quite a massive oboe.

That's another album.

Your experimental Rick Astley's massive oboe album.

You're in the dream restaurant.

Yes.

What does it look like to you, your dream restaurant?

Well, it's actually on a beach.

My family and I have spent quite a bit of time in Italy on holidays over the years.

And I love, you know, anywhere to go on holiday, to be honest.

I'm just happy to be on holiday.

But when I think about holidays, we went to Sardinia a lot for 10 years straight kind of thing.

My wife and I have been to Puglia quite a few times now.

And I just, there's something about Italy and being on a beach in Italy and eating that really makes me happy.

Nice.

I think because also I know it's a it's a well-trodden thing to say that you can eat well anywhere in Italy but there is some truth to it.

I've eaten badly in Italy as well by the way over the over the years but but generally speaking you can go in a like a petrol station on the motorway and eat well in Italy you know so yeah it's on a beach and we're looking at could be the Adriatic, could be the Med.

I don't mind.

I'll go either way.

And yeah, I think that's that gives me a real sense of lovely comfort and kind of like relaxation i think is a good way of putting it as well so is it is it like a sort of restaurant set up on the beach or are you talking about no it is a restaurant yeah it's definitely a restaurant with tables and chairs and the whole thing and yeah yeah for sure um you're not sitting on the sand no it could even be in a little harbor actually there's a little place that we've been to a couple of times down in puglia and the food's just amazing and even though it's like this little tiny bit touristy but not you know most of the time it is italians in there and again that's the dream isn't it it you want to go where you know you want to feel like you found the spot kind of yeah and it's totally unpretentious but the food's amazing and yeah I kind of feel that's my comfort zone I think you know when you're on holiday on the beach reclining you might want to read a book indeed you might

absolutely incredible James yeah pretty good you know we're only what 12 series in and I think you're getting the hang of this interviewing stuff finally started to understand segues

and how promo works the need to actually promote the thing that the person's here to

often vick you have no idea how many times we'll be like i start going so still a spark of the morning and then bennett will go excuse me sorry

remember james we have to i get it i do get it but it is also a weird thing i think because the the the world of podcasts has changed things so much you know like you go and you you know we're having a chat right now and obviously there's a focus to it because of the the the food side of it and everything but it's also very often i think I've kind of like meandered through podcasts a few times where you think, what was that for?

And why are we doing it?

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

You're one stage removed from having a pint in the pub and chatting to people.

And once in a blue moon, you actually know the people as well.

You know, you mentioned Rob Bridman before.

And I've met Rob a bunch of times and stuff.

And I did his podcast.

And it was kind of a bit like, we should have just done it in a bar.

And do you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That would be weird if you were having a drink with your friend in a bar and he just pulled your book out and went.

So let's talk some more about this.

Yeah, well, true.

But I think, but it has, i think it's kind of taken some of the kind of like just the thing about when you do interviews for stuff and you're basically selling something you can dress it up any way you like but you've got a new record or you've done an autobiography and it's like i'm here to sell it and it's like it is a bit weird that yeah you know on a human level that is a bit weird and i think that podcasts have sort of taken the edge off that a tiny bit because you're talking about a lot of stuff and you meander and you get you know but i am here to sell a book yeah

i i remember as a kid getting disillusioned just suddenly realizing that everyone on Parkinson happened to be on there when they're about to sell something I was like hold on a second so like the person last week started talking about their new album

they're interesting people it is weird but then again like I say you you it's a process I think it's like you've made a record you won't be able to hear it you know I don't think anybody's ever walked out of a studio going great I hope no one is that

it's just not what you know and the only way of doing that is letting the wider world know so and vice vice versa.

If you're going on a chat show, you need something to talk about.

Yeah.

You just rock up.

How you been?

Not doing much.

Just knocking about the house.

Yeah.

A bit of painting.

Yeah.

So never is the autobiography.

Yes, it is.

Yeah.

And I think the publishing world loves an autobiography with a one-word title.

There it is.

And obviously because of Never Going to Give You Up, which is my biggest song, my first song, my blah, blah, blah, and it's sort of, it's got this place in my life that just totally dwarfs everything else, really.

It's a weird thing to not even admit that because i can admit it easily but it's just i guess to own it that you've got this song that's a bit of a kind of a i don't know i don't want to be negative about it because it's been amazing to me that song but it's kind of like it's just overshadowed everything

so it i kind of and it was my idea to call it never and i just kind of thought you know i said it's my idea it could have been my wife's idea actually yeah it's not our idea let's say yeah yeah yeah yeah um and again it's come up quite a few times about do you want to do a book and i've kind of said nope and for years i've said no and i think so the title isn't what you use to respond to people yeah well yeah never um no but I have sort of shied away from it really um for a lot of reasons I'm 58 now and I have lived a bit I've got a 32 year old daughter who just got married and stuff and I kind of feel that it it's not just a I was in pop music for a few years here's a book I feel there's a bit more of a life to tell kind of thing I think a lot of it was partly doing like some of the things that happened last year when we played Glastonbury and stuff like that that I kind of just walked away and thought, wow, that was an amazing moment for me personally.

But also, I think in the space of a career and sort of go, you're 58 and they're now letting you play Glastonbury.

That's a weird, I wouldn't say it's a bookend because I'm not finished just yet, hopefully.

But it's a weird, there's just a lot of weird things gone on in the last few years, I think.

that have made me think, wow, I bet people might actually have an interest to read my side of that rather than just see it in the Daily Mail or whatever, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I mean, like, i mean a couple of things there like for one like the song i don't want to hear someone who's just released that song do a book about what it was like to have a hit single like that yeah but you must have had such a change in relationship to it totally over those decades that i do want to hear about that because i think that's a way more interesting thing to like yeah to be told about and to learn about yeah i think i think obviously that song came out in 1987 if we just think there wasn't even the internet at that point.

And ironically, it's had another life on the internet.

It's just made me me think sometimes to own being grateful.

And also, and this might seem a bit pompous, I don't know, but to just sort of like try and enjoy life a bit more.

Because I think when it was happening, when I was young, 21, and what having the first couple of records and stuff, you do, I don't take it for granted, but you do take it a bit more in your stride because you've got nothing to judge it against.

So you just, everything's normal, even though it's completely abnormal.

because you don't know anything else.

But once you get some distance away from it, you can kind of go, my God, god how lucky you were and how amazing that certain people you met and certain situations you found yourself in and where i am right now being 58 i'm pretty happy to be honest i have my moments obviously like everyone does i'm only human but i'm kind of happy i have to be grateful for that i think you know there's something to be said though i think for that attitude when it's all based on this one big hit single that happened so early in your career yeah i think there's that's happened to a lot of other people who've really resisted that yeah and have sort sort of almost thrown their toys out the prime a little bit and gone, no, please stop, please stop talking about that.

You've taken it all in your stride and you have this aspect of it.

Yeah, but I think also partly because I had quite a long gap away from it all.

And so I kind of packed it all in.

We're in my late 20s.

Our daughter had just been born.

And I don't know, I kind of, I'd say I hated the music business.

It's a bit strong.

But I kind of hated the music business really because it's a freaking business, you know, and I hadn't really started perhaps in the way that I really, truly wanted to but you can get disillusioned when something happens yeah yeah yeah and maybe not want to be around it yeah and i just think the business itself talking about selling stuff jesus christ i mean i used to go to do a tv show in whatever country and it would usually be a different country every day for months on end on the one hand that sounds exciting but you guys have been around stuff like that it isn't And you can fool yourself and pretend it is.

And you can smile in a smash it's photograph for so long before you just want to kill someone.

And I don't want that to come across as ungrateful because I'm not.

I'm extremely grateful.

But I also think just on a human level, you know, some people are more cut out.

I'm a miserable northerner.

Do you know what I mean?

It's really hard to pretend that I was happy.

Do you know what I mean?

And

I've seen other people, you know, and around that time as well, just manage it really, really well.

And I don't know whether they're just really good at pretending or they just love it.

Yeah.

And they like being famous and they like all that sort of side of it.

But I think having a break, and it was a very long break, I kind of, I never thought I'd do anything again in music, to be honest, that I'm done.

I think that really, really helped.

And it's helped me appreciate even those times a lot more and remember them fondly rather than, you know, being miserable about it.

So was it, was it the second life that the song got on the internet that almost sort of brought you back to stuff?

It was weird because the timing was a weird thing.

I actually, I met a guy in a pub.

It was actually the half moon in Putney where it's a band venue, really.

Yeah, gig venue, yeah.

And I went there because some friends of mine had started a record label and the first artist that they signed was Natasha Beddingfield.

She was doing like a showcase or what have you.

So there's a few different people.

And this guy is a massive promoter.

And he got...

talking to me and we got chatting and he kind of basically said why don't you go out and sing anymore and i said well i just don't want to do it really i'm done with that and i think it's done with me and you know he said no no no you should go out and sing you know you should just I said anyway he not convinced me but kind of laid it out for me he said look go and sing anything you want it doesn't have to be your old songs if you don't want you sing anything you want we don't have to make money we don't have to do anything just go and sing and if you don't like it we'll shake hands and forget it and if you do we'll talk about it so that's a well-trodden path but I ended up singing a lot of like Frank Sinatra songs because that's what my dad used to sing around the house and I knew them all and I kind of have always loved them and I just went and did it sort of under the radar in tiny little venues and I loved it.

I absolutely loved it.

And I loved being on stage again because there was no record to promote and I didn't do any interviews and I didn't do anything for it.

I just went out and sang with a great band.

I did sing Never Going to Give You Up at the end because I'd get lynched if I didn't.

But it was like, but I didn't, it wasn't about that.

And then I did a couple of other things.

I had an offer to go to Japan and sing my old songs kind of thing.

And my wife and daughter made me do it.

because they wanted to go to Japan.

And we stayed in like an amazing hotel and it was looked after and you know, know we had a week's holiday there afterwards and everything.

So after doing that as well, I just kind of thought, this isn't painful.

It's actually quite enjoyable because no one sort of knows I'm doing it other than the people who came to the gigs.

And it's like, it's, I wasn't being a pop star.

Do you know what I mean?

I wasn't doing anything really.

You're just remembering what you actually liked about it in the first place.

Kind of, yeah.

It was just, it was just different.

It was just very, very different.

And there wasn't.

any connection to, well, like I say, like selling something.

I didn't feel like, you know, I've said it loads of times actually that I could have been selling paint in the 80s i could have been selling anything i just felt like i was going around going buy this yeah it didn't feel that attached to music even because most of the time they didn't want you to sing live either so you're going miming in germany spain italy norway what have you and america eventually and australia and all the rest of it you're just going miming on a tv show my brother could have done it

do you know what i mean it's like there's no relevance to anything that i ever started to do as a teenager to what i'm I'm actually doing.

Willie would have been a better promo stunt to send your brother.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And just have him walk out of retirement and have them all go, hold on a second.

That's a different guy than a dad.

He's very tall, isn't he?

Turns out it's your brother.

Hang on.

It does sound like him.

And also, it's down to me.

If I want to play a cover of something, that's what we're doing.

Yeah.

If you want to go to the bathroom, off you go.

But you must have it that people quite like, because

you did two sets at Glastonbury last year.

And one of them was you and Blossoms doing the Smiths covers.

Yeah, which is...

And that was a huge hit

as well.

I mean,

it's quite rare that someone has the kind of Glastonbury you had last year, where they had two sets that everyone was talking about all the time.

It was 100% bonkers.

And yeah, I mean, for first half of the festival, everyone was just saying, did you see Rick Castle?

It was amazing.

And then the second half, everyone was saying, did you see Rick Castle?

And for Blossoms, it was amazing.

But people must surely also be quite up for hearing covers from you now as well.

Yeah, I guess.

I mean, well, it's weird because

I just really like doing it and like when we rehearse my band are amazing by the way and they can play everything without even thinking about it they're all super annoying in that respect i just throw them a song and they go yeah whatever and play it i'm like okay right but what's amazing about that also is that i have no fear about so sometimes we'll just sit there and jam through songs for like 40 minutes and then i'll suddenly realize we've gone a bit far slipknot we've gone a bit far so don't please do that it's ed's favorite band literally ed's favourite band oh is it oh yeah he would love it if he did slip knot okay rick i'd lose my mind play it's hard to play yeah so you'd need nine people really you need nine people and you need some like oil drums and you need all that yeah all of that what's the one i push my fingers into my yeah that is just i'd watch you sing an acoustic version that is the well yeah could do i think uh what was nice and i know we should get on with the menu bonito I know we should get on with it.

But I think what was nice, what was particularly nice about that Glastonomy one is that there's a lot of us who really enjoy those Smith songs and grew up with them.

And then Morrissey became the man he is now and we would never want to go and see him live.

But this was a way of seeing those songs live and enjoyed it, be able to sing along to him again.

It was like the beyond meat burger to use to use a reference that Morrissey would probably appreciate actually.

It was like, oh, this tastes just like it, but without any of the inhumane stuff I don't agree with.

That was what was nice about it, I felt.

I felt there was a lot of people going, I've really wanted to see these songs live and sing along with a feel for the people but i've made my peace with the fact that's never going to happen yeah and then it was a way of doing it you don't have to comment on it rick no no

we always start with still or sparkling water yes

yes uh it's got to be still for me i don't mind sparkling but i just if it's sparkling i'd rather it was something else if it's fizzy i don't want water do you know what i'm saying yeah yeah So

yeah, and I'm easy.

I'll go tap.

Not in every country in the world, but I'll go tap.

Not in every, also I'd imagine.

So you're from Lancashire, right?

I am indeed.

So the tap water there is very good.

I mean, Mr.

Steve Coogan, my God, has he got a bee in his bonnet about northern water?

I mean, come on.

Yes, yes.

But it's good water.

Yeah, I'm not denying that.

Yeah, but I mean...

No, you don't have local pride for your water?

Yeah, I probably do, but I mean, I'm not going to.

I'm aware of being a professional northerner at times.

And I haven't lived up there for like 30 odd years.

My wife's Danish.

You know, I've spent more time in copenhagen than i have you know in the town that i'm from do you know what i mean so it's kind of like so i'm always still to be honest as well it there's something about the carbonation of water if you like that is a bit i don't think that helps with food to me because it fills you up or it's just something about it and some of them are quite they've got a taste to them i think a very definite sort of something and i don't want that when i'm eating the the water is to perhaps cleanse your palate a bit but also just to keep you hydrated with the lovely wine we're about to drink.

Yeah, yeah, a little sneak preview.

So the tap water wouldn't be from anywhere in particular, then?

Because sometimes it's fun if the...

I mean, what's Copenhagen tap water like if you've been?

I mean, yeah, you can drink tap water there 100%.

I wouldn't think twice about it in most places.

I think, to be honest, it's to do with it's when you're working, especially.

You're like, I'm very sensitive to not eating shellfish and stuff when I'm working.

I've only cancelled one gig in my life, and it was in Australia.

I had the wildest, and I've had food poisoning a few times, the wildest food poisoning ever.

And talk us through it indeed.

Well, I was, I was, I started to, we did sound check and we all ate chicken salad, right?

And then I did not feel very well.

And the room was like moving and everything was going really kind of like, it was going into a very strange place.

And I went outside and found a metal lamppost and was hugging it.

And I thought, there's something very wrong with me right now.

And then I just started throwing up like there was no tomorrow, like really bad.

And if I could have sensed this was about to happen, I would have done something about it.

But I thought, I'll be fine.

I'm going to throw up a few times and I'll get through it.

Might have a couple of vodkas and I'll be fine.

Right.

And then I really wasn't.

I was beginning to get worried.

And then the audience was already in by this point and they made a bit of an announcement and said, I don't like, is there a doctor in the house or whatever?

But somebody quietly, you know, found a nurse and she came out to see me and she said, I think he should go to hospital.

And at that point, I started to get, because I was off my tits at this point.

I was like, I hadn't been drinking anything.

I was just hallucinating.

I was full on, you know, I really wasn't very well.

And they called for an ambulance.

And in the end, the ambulance said, look, we just, we can't do it.

We're not going to come for someone who's got food poisoning.

They were and then they weren't and then they were and they weren't.

So they got a doctor, private doctor,

and he injected me in the bum region with something.

sent me to the hotel and uh immediately went to sleep for like 12 hours you know so i don't know what it was he gave me or what have you, but I was really, really ill.

And that's the only gig I've ever cancelled.

Yeah.

And so, and obviously it was chicken salad.

So what can you do?

You know what I mean?

You can't avoid chicken salad.

It's quite a regular thing.

But I think ever since that day, because that's pretty good going, only cancelling one gig in my life.

Absolutely.

And I've been really ill doing gigs, by the way, like really ill.

But that was something else.

That was like, that was on the edge, that one.

I know what you mean about like

suddenly getting paranoid about food if you've got a show that night as well.

Yeah.

like if there's like an an oyster kicking around or something you're like i'm not doing that no i'm not the case as we're going to get into i like seafood of any description and pretty much any description and i always you know i do love oysters and i love lots of things but if you're gigging it's just like

you know i will say it's rare that i'm doing a gig and there's an oyster kicking around come on you had gamble well that also sounds really dodgy just an oyster yeah an oyster around there's oyster just on the road yeah so i'm never worried about that normally like if i'm if i'm not working,

I'm like, yeah, I'm sure it's absolutely fine.

But I just know one day it's going to happen.

Absolutely.

Bite you on the ass.

Pop-doms or bread, Vicasley.

Pop-ad-doms or bread.

Oh, my God.

I still can't get used to that.

There is no need for a pop-adom in what we're about to, you know.

And like most people say on this thing, yes, I like poppadoms and I like them when I'm going to have an Indian or a takeaway or what have you.

But no.

we're going to have bread.

And also because we're going pretty full on Italian in this place, because remember, we're on an Italian beach beach somewhere overlooking one of the seas, whichever one you want.

So if we're going to have bread at all, it's going to be something Italian, something nice.

Yeah.

Which particular Italian bread do you think?

I don't really mind, really.

Italy's weird, as we know.

It's got lots of different kinds of bread.

Some of it's awful and unedible.

And I don't know why they even put it out in a restaurant.

It makes no sense whatsoever.

It's just, yeah, it's awful.

I think a lot of it's in the north, actually.

It's just white bread with no anything in it.

It's just, it's just awful.

And they do that in English Italian restaurants or Italian English, you know, whatever.

And it's like, yeah, yeah, but we don't want that.

That's not the Italy we want.

We don't want like proper rustic Italian bread.

No, well, not the rustic.

We want the rustic that is a certain part of Italy's rustic.

We don't want that white bread with nothing in it.

It doesn't mean anything to us.

I'd rather have the sticks in the plastic paper that, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the breadsticks.

So you're more more thinking maybe a nice foca yeah something like that yeah possibly with even a herb in it you know what I mean

we just gotta have good olive oil yeah that's the thing if you've got even reasonable bread and good old olive oil you're away aren't you you know so it's one of the things that I actually oh it's gonna sound like a right snob now but my wife and I do this all the time where when they pour you some olive oil and we just look at it and we go

That's disappointing, isn't it?

You know what I mean?

Because it doesn't look rich enough and and strong enough.

You know what I mean?

And then you taste it and you go, yeah, I knew that was going to be disappointing.

Early at the top of the episode, Rick, you described yourself as a miserable northerner.

Yeah.

And it's the idea of you looking at olive oil being poured out and going, oh, that's disappointing.

No, but come on, that's, that's, I mean, we've all kind of stepped up our game with food, I think.

Yeah.

And obviously, some of your listeners perhaps are of an age where they've never known.

any other time where you couldn't just get everything all the freaking time.

You You just sat on the couch and sort of go, I want Thai.

Well, I want this.

Well, I want Korean, but obviously I want North Korean.

Yeah.

But I want not even, you know what I mean?

I think even, you know, I live in a good area for deliveroo.

I'd struggle to get North Korean cuisine, I think.

I don't know.

You're on the wrong delivery page, then love.

But you know what I mean?

You can, and obviously I'm 58 and I grew up in a small town in the north and it was like it was not exotic.

It really wasn't.

And I think it's not even mean spoil.

I sometimes feel it's spoiled.

I do, I don't worry about it.

I don't lose sleep over it.

But I do sometimes wonder about where it's led us that you can eat anything whenever you want.

You know, you can have blueberries from Chile.

You know what I mean?

And you're like, hang on a minute.

How did they get here?

Does that make any sense?

No, it doesn't.

But we've got used to it.

And I think at some point we're going to have to address that a little bit, you know?

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah, I think so.

But let's enjoy it while we can.

Let's enjoy it while we can.

Let's not think about it.

Let's just enjoy it.

Let's

ignore all of it.

But I think the olive oil oil thing, maybe it's an age thing as well.

I don't know.

But it's like, you just get into it, don't you, at some point?

You guys must be into all of that.

So what, yeah, what are you looking for when the olive oil is poured out?

What would make you and your wife go lovely?

Dark.

Yeah.

Like some kind of, you know, and like

a bit like, you know, like oily, like a proper, you know, I'll say oil in the sense of something you put in your car.

Viscosity, if that's the right word.

I mean, somewhere you can really see it's like, oh, hang on a minute, hold the phone.

And then when you actually taste it, you want that kind of kick in it, really kind of almost a bite in it.

and I just hate it when it's just nothing it's just like well that's just there's no point in putting my bread in that you know and what do you think I mean you're spending a lot of time imagine you saying that to a waiter there's no point in putting my bread in that

just not him doing it you spend a lot of time in Copenhagen I believe that's the origin of the place that's the first place where they started putting olive oil directly onto ice cream and Dresden.

Oh, really?

Is that in one of the norma-esque restaurants up there and all that?

Yeah, kind of like everywhere now.

I went last year for a couple of days

and every ice cream place would offer sea salt and olive oil and the chopper you wanted to.

I don't know if that started in Copenhagen, though.

I think that might be an Italian thing.

But it's very in.

Yes, it's very in.

It's olive oil and the chicken.

You must know, obviously, that Copenhagen is, in the last 10 years or whatever more, has just become this.

revolutionary food because obviously it had the best restaurant in the world number of years running all the rest of it and so many people who've gone through that restaurant, obviously, have started other places and da-da-da.

And it is, our daughter lives there, and we go there a lot, obviously.

I know my wife's there right now.

And it is pretty amazing for food.

It's pretty amazing for everything, to be honest.

You guys won't know this, but we have a couple of bars in London that we're involved with from one of the places called Michela.

I don't think you know that.

I knew that.

I knew you were involved in this.

Okay, okay.

So anyway, so that's like the whole everything with food and just drinking and everything has really changed, I think.

I mean, I like the old school Danish food as well, to be honest.

Like, open-faced sandwiches is still a big thing with me and stuff.

And the herrings and all of that.

We always have, at Christmas, we always have a Christmas, well, we have a styling around the food that's all very, very Danish.

You know, they're big in pork.

I'm not so big in pork, to be honest.

So Lean and my wife normally kind of makes me something else.

But anyway, but and the crackling that's on it and everything.

The Christmas potatoes we've heard about on this podcast before.

Well, did they call them Brunkartoffel, which is like Christmas potatoes.

Is this like with the really sweet?

It's basically sugar.

It's like white boiled potatoes, tiny ones, like little new potatoes almost.

And you literally, I mean, it's obscene when you see it.

You look at it and you just think that's a health problem right there.

It's just a pan full of sugar and you just melt that down, put the potatoes in, and they just become brown potatoes then.

And it is amazing.

That does sound amazing.

Your dream starter.

And my dream starter is swordfish, but done,

oh for god's sake when you just slice it really thin

capacha is what i'm after yeah and again i think i wouldn't i wouldn't say i would have that on every restaurant i've been to but i think if you go to a nice one and you get the feeling well the olive oil was really good so i might actually is it like a test testing thing like when yeah a little bit yeah i think that's true yeah yeah but you go with the olive oil if the olive oil is good you're ordering the swordfish kind of yeah and i would feel better about ordering the seafood as well and the everything do you know it's a marker they've set a marker of like this is we're a good place and we know what we're doing you know and that it doesn't have to be swanky and posh yeah it's just no we really care about the food in here and this is what we're doing you know is it our first swordfish on on the podcast good question it must be one of the few yeah we haven't had it come up much yeah well they they have um they put it in pasta a lot in italy or certain parts of italy anyway they did in sardinia a lot uh linguine della sparda i think it's called and it's just it's got a very fish taste but not to the point where it's because fish and pasta for me is a bit of a weird one.

You know, like salmon and spaghetti?

I'm not saying I've never eaten it, and I wouldn't eat, I would eat it tonight.

If someone's made it and I've gone around there, I'm going to eat that and I'm fine with it.

There's a bit of me going, are you sure?

No?

No, I see what you mean.

It doesn't feel like a match made in heaven, doesn't it?

It seems odd to me.

That seems like someone else's version of what should be going on, spaghetti.

Yeah.

Prawns, sure.

Yeah, prawns.

Clams, sure.

Yeah,

we're going to, oop, you've hit the nail on the head there.

But I mean, salmon and spaghetti.

I've definitely had it before and it was nice, but I think it really comes down to what sauce they have with it.

It's very creamy looking, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah, and then it's delicious, and they've got that right there.

But like, yeah, I know what you mean.

I think I actually made something during lockdown that was a salmon pasta.

Yeah, I mean, and it obviously flakes up quite nicely when you're stirring it and you're like, oh, this is great.

But yeah, on paper.

Like I say, if I saw it on a menu in the UK, especially, or possibly in Italy, I don't know, but it wouldn't be what I'd go to.

But seeing the swordfish thing in a pasta, and also I think perhaps I was thinking, I've never seen this before.

I've probably seen it since, but I hadn't seen it perhaps the first time we used to, because we used to have it a lot in the same restaurant in Sardinia.

I kind of thought, oh,

we're getting a bit of an insight to local, do you know what I mean?

But

this isn't inner pasta, this is not a distance.

No,

it's just it is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What goes over the top of it is there like oil.

Oh, it's olive oil.

Olive oil, yeah.

And sometimes

there might even be possibly a tiny bit of onion or maybe even a tiny bit of garlic and stuff.

But I think if it's nice enough, I think you can just eat it the way it is.

Super light starter just to get it ready.

Yeah.

And again, the thing with cappacho for me is that you've really got to be as thin as you can be, like you can almost see-through it kind of thing.

Yeah.

And then it's sort of, it just takes on another level of loveliness, I think.

When it's fat cappacho, who wants a fat ca patcho?

Do you know what I mean?

That's just wrong, isn't it?

Yeah, isn't it?

Yeah.

That's just sashimi at that point, isn't it?

Yeah, it's just weird.

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So your dream main course isn't too far from that?

No, no, because I've gone full Italian, to be honest.

We have a lot of memories being together in Italy.

And I kind of think, and I love Spain as well, by the way.

I think the food in Spain is just incredible.

I think we did definitely have more holidays.

We used to go on holiday with one particular family and we went to the same place 10 years running kind of thing.

And our kids kind of were on this little beach where

even if we weren't there, I know it sounds a bit weird now, but even if we weren't there, we felt they were safe.

It was that, it wasn't a big sort of you know what i mean it was just like it's okay i think there was always one of us there thinking about it i don't think we'd have left

but it had that feel of it almost like you're in a in your bite blighting book do you know what i mean it's like i mean those kids were always in danger

those kids were always having to face down criminals rick that's an awful it's a bad awful example those kids were in a lot of danger they should have they should have had supervision at all times yeah the inner blighting kids they probably did they probably did they're investigating crimes left right in the centre oh i thought you meant the in your blighting kids had supervision they didn't they never did you meant your you meant Unbelievable.

Unbelievable.

No level of a dog.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just very weird, all of that.

Very weird.

So, yeah, for a main,

I've gone for spaghetti vongoli.

Nice.

But with Bataga on top.

Are you aware of Bataga?

No, I'm not.

No.

I'm aware of the name.

I don't think I know what it is, Rick.

Well, I'm going to embarrass myself by not knowing what it is either, but I think what it is is it's eggs from a fish that somehow gets, I think, compacted and then they shave it.

Wow.

I'm just going to Google button.

No, I think.

Has anyone ever googled on the actual light?

Yes.

yes normally we might bend it normally we won't bend it but yeah because i'm always have you do it i've always got a couple of things i think i'm right exactly when i yeah bataga is is salted cured fish roe it is yeah i was pretty certain it was by the way but then when you just when you because when you're just telling a friend about it is one thing but when you're on yeah podcasts with two gentlemen like yourselves you think is that right yeah um and i've never really ever seen it other than in either an italian restaurant that has a sardinian owner or chef or connection there's lots of people in italy who don't eat it i don't think right and we just kept seeing it i just thought i'm having so i tried it i just went oh my god so what does it taste like what does it do it's very fishy yeah but but again you know this thing with fish and pasta and mixing the two things so it's spaghetti vongli yeah which is a very traditional and and if a good one of those i think it's just amazing i just love it

perfect yeah it's perfect on the water it just feels you're one with the sea and the whole you know but throwing the bataga on top just adds this other dimension to it and it just again i think it's fond memories i think it's happy memories of being on holidays with your kids when they're young and all the rest of it how do you feel about because we've talked about vongal a couple of times and how he hill chose it harry hill chose it all right how do you feel about the admin what do you mean the shell admin oh i think that's part of the joy yeah yeah well you like because i struggle with it i don't know if you could tell because when i get a meal yeah i'm ready to just want to eat it i'm going i'm going straight in well i do know what you mean and there are certain things i'll try and think of one there are certain things i think i just can't be bothered i can't be ass messing i just want to eat the bloody thing but with that I don't mind.

It's a bit like when you have

a clam.

It's a bit like when you have mussels, mural.

And do you do that thing where you use one of the shells to pluck out the meat of the...

No, I don't do that.

Do you not do that?

I don't do that.

No, I mean, I rarely get it.

And every time I do get it, I get frustrated with the admin.

And I splash myself with

the juice at some point because I'm so just trying to get it over and done with.

Yeah, the tongs using one of the shells

as the tongs to get the other one out.

Yeah.

I mean, it's quite cruel, really.

Because this guy,

you can see his mate ripping his tummy out.

Well, they're dead, though, aren't they?

Depends where you go.

So that just reminds me of something while we're on a food conversation here for the podcast.

Have you guys been to Japan?

Yes.

I have the first time.

I've just got back.

James is going next to me.

Oh, amazing.

Fantastic.

Well, I'm sure you're going to love it.

You must have loved it.

I'm sure.

Incredible.

Yeah.

So I've been a few times and back in the day in the 80s and stuff.

And I remember the second time we went, first time was just promo and stuff.

Second time we went for gigs.

and the promoter took us to this amazing restaurant in a town I think called Nagoya so you know it's still a massive city but one of the smaller cities as it were we went to this restaurant and I basically think he was just taking the piss because

we were given these bowls like a soup like a clear soup but something was still alive swimming around in it

but didn't have the whole of its body to do so yeah like tentacles have been cut away and things

and that was like a bit of a shock so i didn't and again i was 22 23 do you know what i mean i I'd travelled a bit by then and I'd eaten in a lot of places and stuff, but it was still...

It's not

a problem.

That's not old, but that's nothing compared to what happened next.

So they brought out these huge fish that were skewered so that they were in like a curve, an arc, you know, tail up and head up.

And the meat of the fish had been cut away from its body while it was alive and placed back on the fish.

So you were meant to eat it while it looked at you.

Oh my God.

i mean look i'm not squeamish but i think that would put me off i couldn't do that i mean like your theory about if the olive oil is good you know the rest of the meal is going to be nice when they brought you the little thing swimming around in the bowl

yeah yeah let alone when you have to make eye contact with the thing you're eating yeah get out of bloody marquee de sard restaurant now i don't know whether that might even be a thing anymore and whether they're legally allowed to do it you know i'm going back 35 years you know so it's it's a while ago or more even you know but i remember just thinking this is ridiculous yes yeah and i was kind of looking at all the other japanese people thinking are you going to to eat this?

Or is this...

Crazy prank on the...

Yeah.

I've seen prawns cooked on the, on like a teppanyakia hat, you know, where they're still alive.

Yeah.

They just put them on the thing in front of you.

You know, and I know lobsters go in the thing when you're not looking and they just put them in the, you know, oh, I don't like all that.

Listen, don't get me wrong, I love eating food.

I'm not vegetarian.

I think about it sometimes and I do think there's an issue, like I said, with us.

the way we are living at the moment can't really be sustained and all the rest of it.

And, but yeah, it's a, it's a there's a step there's a step too far isn't there a little bit yeah yeah I think we definitely have to at least stop making eye contact with the fish while we're eating it alive yeah

kind of that's it yeah let's at least take that step having said that this is a suspense this is just reminding me of something else and please this is this is not this is not about right here we go so yeah uh one of my passions in life has been skiing over the years and so I was on holiday skiing with some friends and it was a bit of an occasion and we needed to celebrate something so we went to this restaurant which again, I don't think is open anymore, not because of what I'm about to describe, I just think it's not open anymore.

And it was called my father's farm, on Firmdom on Pear, whatever, and massive reputation, you know, Michelin stars, all the rest of it.

So we went, it's like a 15-course blah-de-dah, whatever.

But you, you, the building is a farm, and animals, I'm not saying those animals necessarily, but in other words, pigs, ducks,

you know, geese, cows are on the other side of glass beneath you and on the side of you as you walk into the restaurant so it's basically like saying but there's but I don't think on the one hand there's nothing wrong with actually explaining especially to kids because if kids just think that a slab of meat in a is just something yeah you know they don't connect it to being an animal that's a whole other issue again so but that was pretty that was a bit you know I mean they weren't dragging animals out and butchering them and you know sure but it was still very

you've just ordered this and that's one of those over there beyond that glass.

It was a bit weird.

Yeah, it's quite confronting, isn't it?

It's good.

I mean, yeah, I'm all for it, but I think I wouldn't be able to hack it at the same time.

And maybe I should reflect on that.

Yeah, well, I'm not, I don't cook a lot.

My wife's an amazing cook, an incredible cook.

And it's one of the main ways that she relaxes.

And I don't really love it.

Does it stress you out?

Yeah, if it's for anybody else, yes.

You know, I'm not averse to making an omelette or making something for myself, cobbling something together.

But I was the reason I was mentioning this is that if someone said, right, there's a joint, there's an actual big piece of an animal, make it.

Or even a chicken.

Getting a chicken out of its packaging from the supermarket and putting it in the oven is a bit like,

wow.

Do you know what I mean?

Whereas when it's cooked and it's on your plate, it's just very different.

It is, yeah.

And don't get those mixed up, Rick.

Otherwise, you're going to have another one of those incidents.

You're going to be cancelling more gigs.

Yeah.

your dream side dish so yeah well i'm going really traditional again all the things i've chosen i think are pretty traditional in a beachside italian restaurant uh so i'm going rocket and parmesan which you know the thing with rocket as well um or rugla as the americans say is when it's good it's amazing it's almost breathtaking again it's back to that thing of the very peppery sort of thing about olive oil sometimes where you go, oh, and it literally goes to the back of your throat and goes, oh my God, you know, and you kind of forget sometimes just how amazing it is.

Like, you know, we've all been having that as a salad for years now.

But I remember as a kid, I say as a kid, a young man in an Italian restaurant and me thinking, oh, well, that's just some kind of leaf salad thing and eating it and going, Jesus, you know.

It is a shock the first time you have rocket.

Yeah.

It's mind-blowing.

And also, parmesan's a big thing in our house.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

My wife doesn't really eat desserts.

She doesn't eat sweet things particularly.

You should leave her.

But at the end of dinner in restaurants, she very often will say, can I have a,

I don't want a cheeseboard.

I don't want a whole selection of what.

Just give me a big block of Parmesan and a nice glass of red wine.

Well, that is, I mean, that is one of the ballsiest moods I've ever heard of, being in a restaurant.

My wife gives me a big chunk of Parmesan.

She is a ballsy woman, believe me.

She is.

That's a real curveball, isn't it, for the people working there?

Maybe, but I think there's an element of

It depends, doesn't it?

It depends what kind of a restaurant you're in.

Sometimes, and even some of the ones which do have like a Michelin star and they're like, well, they're not,

sometimes I think they are more accommodating than people would think they are.

Sometimes, not always.

Sometimes it's like, that's what we make.

Fuck off if you don't want it that way.

But sometimes they kind of get it that people go, you know what?

I just, is there any, you know, any chance?

I don't know.

Does she go through the like rigmarole of like looking at the dessert menu and go, hmm, actually?

I'll just have a big block of parmesan.

She'll kind of have a scan of it, and she will have a spoonful of mine or someone's, but she's not really, it's just not where she's at at all.

There's pretty much nothing in the world of dessert that she's interested in.

Wow.

It just doesn't do it for her.

Mind, mind-boggling.

Yeah, I would want to try that.

Yeah, I'm sure you will.

Because I love just a big block of parmesan.

True, right.

Glass of red wine with it, especially.

It's just like, yeah.

This is what we've learned today.

And I don't know what order these episodes are going to go out in that we've recorded today.

This will be big first.

Well, then this is a flash forward.

Yeah.

But a guest earlier said that, and if the listeners can figure out which guest this was, make sure you tweet the podcast and Benito will send you a signed chopping board.

Said that Christopher Walken said to always start a meal with Parmesan and red wine.

Christopher Walker wasn't our guest, by the way.

Oh,

that wasn't our guest.

Our last guest said that Christopher Walken said on an interview to always start a meal with just a block of Parmesan and red wine.

I mean, that's never come up in the podcast before.

And you're literally our next guest, and you said Parmesan Parmesan and red wine's great.

Weird.

That is very strange.

And I have Parmesan in the fridge at home.

And God knows I've got some red wine.

God knows.

I'm going to do that tonight.

Do it.

I went to a restaurant once called Beast.

I don't know if it's still there, but the starter was literally, it was quite early on in the life of this restaurant.

And there was only one starter.

And they brought you like a huge chunk of Parmesan that you could absolutely never finish and a knife.

And you just hacked off bits of Parmesan.

It's like here in London.

Yeah, yeah.

Right.

Okay.

It's run by the, you know, do you know Goodman Steakhouses?

I think it's one of their places.

It rings a bell that name, but I can't remember.

I think it's changed a bit now, but it was like Parmesan and then steak and like, I think lobster.

But it was like very ridiculously over-the-top restaurant.

But yeah, I loved it.

Well, your dream drink then.

So we got that nice salad.

It's a Chardonnay.

It's an Italian Chardonnay.

It's

antenori, basically.

And the reason I'm sort of like stumbling over saying that and everything is because of how expensive it is um

it's ludicrously expensive um and it wouldn't be an everyday you know but i'm in my favorite restaurant dream restaurant yeah you know all the rest of it why not um again you don't see it everywhere but when you see it and i had a very weird experience in italy recently and that was that it's a long story but i was picking i don't fly that often so i drive everywhere like you know i've driven to budapest a few times and southern Portugal, outer northern Norway and everywhere.

I've driven across America a few times and round Australia because I don't like flying that much.

I do do it, obviously, but I'm saying I cut it down.

And I like doing the drive as well.

And also, I think I've done an awful lot of traveling, especially when I was younger, where I was on planes all the freaking time.

And you arrive somewhere and you go, oh, okay.

I'm in the back of a car and I saw this and I saw that.

And then I've been to Rome, but I have got no...

freaking clue about Italy or what it's like or anything.

And driving there, you get a sense of it because you just stay in places and do stuff anyway on with the story so I'm gonna pick my wife and a friend up in the airport in Rome so the night before I just stayed outside of Rome on the coast actually funny enough in a little place not a fancy place at all it was just me and very often I'll just think I'm not gonna spend a fortune I'm only gonna be there to sleep so da da da and I go downstairs and I went into the little restaurant they had and it was it was like there was nothing it was lovely but there's nothing amazing about this place not what you're expecting I'm looking on the wine list and I see this wine and I sort of think no no no hang on a second and it has got a younger brother by the way yeah which is about half the price yeah but I kept reading it going I think what they've done is here they've it's the younger brother but they've written it like it's the big brother yeah right so I said can I have a look at that wine and he said yeah so over he goes or I think maybe I went to their wine cabinet and had a look at it they had like a glass you know I thought no that's pretty much that's you know and it was literally the big brother it was stupid the price of it it was like so much so that when I told my wife and her friend the day after they said well perhaps we should just go back and buy everything they've got It was too cheap.

And I felt guilty about it, actually.

And I kept thinking, no, no, I should have told them, should have told them.

And anyway, whatever.

It's been a dilemma ever since.

But it is phenomenal, this wine.

And my favourite wine anyway is Chardonnay.

And Chardonnay's got a bit of a bad repper thing over the last 15 years.

So I was like, Chardonnay, don't want to drink that.

Footballers call their kids Chardonnay.

I don't want to drink that nonsense, which is absolute bollocks.

because the finest white burgundy you can possibly have is Chardonnay.

People just don't call it that necessarily up front because it's sort of frightened everyone into thinking it's like, you know, do you know what I mean?

Well, there was that ABC thing for a long time, is it?

Yeah, and Chardonnay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's sort of got a bit of a bad rep.

And it sort of annoys me when I go into a restaurant and they don't have a Chardonnay by the glass.

It really annoys me because I'm like, you're reacting to that.

You're not reacting to whether it's good or not.

And we've traveled a lot in America and got a lot of American friends and some of their shardiness are just unbelievable.

My daughter and quite a few of her friends and family friends have this thing about me liking buttery Chardonnay.

Yeah.

So much so that it's almost become ridiculous.

So that like if we're having a glass of wine, like in Copenhagen and stuff, they're all looking at me, waiting for me to go,

that's buttery.

Is it buttery, Rick?

You know what I mean?

It's become like this sort of thing.

But anyway.

That is such a classic dad bullying thing.

Yeah.

You find the the thing.

You find the one bit of happiness your dad has.

Yeah.

And then destroy it.

And then you make it a thing of mopping.

It's buttery, is it?

Yeah.

But also, to be fair, I think she and some of the friends have been grateful the fact that, you know, I bring nice bottles of wine to drink and stuff.

Yeah, yeah.

And I've pushed them in certain directions and stuff.

And I think over the years, I love red wine, by the way.

I really do.

But obviously, with the things I've chosen, I wanted a white.

And this is just phenomenal.

It's just absolutely gorgeous.

And I thought beer might come up.

I thought we might be in for a beer because

i do love beer but i think i think for me beer is something i drink in a bar or a pub or at home but if i'm in a restaurant i i'm think the connection of food depending on what it is if you're having a burger or you're having something that's a bit more yeah i get it but if you're going to eat like swordfish and pasta and you know i'm going wine every day you know what i mean so that wine sounds absolutely delicious it is amazing i almost toyed with the idea of bringing one and then i thought oh you motherfucker.

Yeah, I know, but you see, why you don't want us now?

You didn't bring us the really expensive wine.

Well, damn it, Rick Asley.

I know, but I did think about it.

And then I thought, I thought, no, that's the last thing.

What are you going to want to do?

Because...

What?

Drink extremely nice wine.

Yeah.

Are you out of your tree?

Okay.

All right.

Well, next time.

Also, the next thought was probably, no, I'll just save that for myself and my family.

No, no, but I.

They have the little boy.

But one of the things about wine, and also the thing you mentioned, the beer thing, because of the Michela guys and everything is that when i grew up as a kid wine was not really a thing nobody i knew had wine at dinner you know i'm from a small northern town and blah blah and all the rest of it you know where we eat coal and all that um it's just it just wasn't on the you know yeah and i think i've loved the fact that i've been introduced to that from being about 21 really because the weird thing was when i had that first record out and everything and it was it was a really big hit at the time you know it's had its life and everything but so i got taken to restaurants that were just off the scale as a 21-year-old and probably didn't really appreciate it.

And also because we were kind of doing it a lot, because I think I came to realize that somebody at the record company would think, great, he's at a number one.

So I can take him to this restaurant

or whatever.

And we were going there because they wanted to, not because I wanted to.

I would have much rather gone out and had a burger and a few beers and hung out with younger people at the record label.

But obviously the CEO and and the God knows what will be taking you out because they're like, well, we can go to, you know, whatever.

The one upside of that, I think, was, and I wasn't a wine drinker at all.

And it took me quite a while, I think, to actually get into it.

And also, I would say, and this is a real knobby thing to say, but it's just the goddamn truth.

If you've got a bit of money, you can take that further.

And you can buy nice wine that's not that super expensive.

And we, you know, drink wine at home on a more regular basis that isn't super expensive for lots of reasons.

And that is, I think, one of the main ones is that if you find something that you like it's again it's a slightly different thing I mean I've got friends who drink certain kinds of wine I'm like I'm not drinking any of that muck I'd rather have a cup of tea I am not drinking that again I'm imagining all this happening in your actual life where you go to a friend's house and they're all drinking wine you're like put the kettle on yeah well I'm not drinking that shit and if you think I'm dipping my bread in that you're sort of mistaken no but wine is a really weird thing because you you become accustomed and it doesn't have to be super expensive and upscale and the rest of it you just sort of get a taste for what you like it's a bit like when you're on holiday and something locally tastes great and you bring it home and it doesn't.

And it's like, I think your taste buds are informed by other stuff.

It's not just, you know, and there's a Chardonnay we drink at home all the time.

It's about, I think it used to be about a 10 or it's probably 12 quid now from one of the big wine distributors that we all know.

And we drink gallons of this stuff.

Because it's just like, it's got this, it is French, it's a Chardonnay, blah, blah, blah.

But it's not produced in Burgundy.

It's, it's a long story.

How boring is this?

This is boring.

No, I love it.

Okay, whatever.

Anyway, so it was an experiment.

I read about it.

It was an experiment.

I think it's Louis Latour.

I'm pretty certain it is.

And he had an experiment.

I don't think he exists as a person anymore.

I think it's long gone.

He had an experiment to say, I'm going to own

this as a person.

And I'm going to produce it somewhere else.

I'm going to, you know, produce a Chardonnay, but not in this region.

And equivalent-wise, in other words, what I'm trying to say is for 12 quid, you're probably drinking £30 worth of wine.

Yeah.

But because it's slightly slightly

different they can't call it

because it's not from yeah and so it's like it's a bit a bit like the champagne thing right if you like your bubbly whatevers you don't have to drink champagne to drink a nice one anymore i mean england's making really good sparkling wine and everything i was going to call it um champagne you're not allowed to you're not allowed to fuck off you're not allowed to do you know what i mean god it bugs the ass off me that anyway there you go i definitely want to make a like a documentary about you at a dinner party yeah

Fucking coldly champagne.

Come on, fuck off.

Nobody's...

I am not eating that.

Yeah, quite often if you can buy wines produced near to some of the massive vineyards that are literally next door.

100%.

Literally all that separates them is a fence.

The terroir is exactly the same.

The weather's obviously exactly the same.

It's going to taste as good and is like a cause for the cost.

I would agree with that wholeheartedly, but I've had one or two experiences that have literally melted my mind, right?

And this is we have a couple of friends who we didn't know that well at the time, because I'm going back quite some years.

I'm going back 15, 16, maybe more years.

We're around at theirs for dinner.

And

Peter his name is, I can say Peter.

I'm going to tell you his last name, but Peter.

Seriously into wine.

And my God, you know, and I've been so embarrassed bringing other bottles to their house going like, oh, Jesus, I should have, you know, pushed the bar out a bit more.

But he's not like that at all.

He just wants people to taste it.

And he's been like collecting wine all his life kind of thing almost, if you like, and investing in it and all this it's again not mega wealthy not like sort of like just loves wine just loves wine and would rather drive a car that's older but drink this wine do you know what I mean or whatever it is and my wife and I have been at theirs for dinner and this other friend who's been around right and they have brought bottles of wine from burgundy white burgundy and I think I would imagine that's harder to do than red wine to be honest they've brought them and the other person has told them the year the vintage and what exactly it is and we're talking about the fields that when you go on one of those wine tours or one of those wine trips, as you say, well, it's that field over there that produces that and the field over there produces that.

And they are different and they're da-da-da-da and all the rest of it.

And those mothers have actually told the other one what they've served.

And I've just gone, what are you doing?

How have you done this?

Yeah.

How do you do that?

And they say, you have to drink an awful lot of wine.

Let's take a sip and go, it's

fun from that field.

Yeah.

And literally the field it came from because they've said, this is a Merceau, but it's it's a da da da and you're going off how have you done what yeah and then it sort of dawned on me eventually because i've been to bone for instance in that area where all you know loads of times actually not just for wine it's halfway to skiing yeah so you know i mean or halfway to the south of france and i drive everywhere so and when you are in one of those areas and you're thinking okay well i guess if this is what you drink a lot of especially when you're pushing the boat out a bit there's still quite a lot but you could get used to it you know what i mean you could sort of sort of go no i kind of know what this is it's not like you said oh well well actually i brought you some chili and chardonnay they probably have no clue whatsoever it's probably not on their radar as much well i'm saying that he knows about some of them as well because he bought me a really nice bottle of chili and chardonnay once as well i was like oh my god i love it i can do it with ben and jerry's yeah james can do it with ben and jerry's oh really tell you what sweet like a sweet who made it ben or jerry

every time

are you is that your thing then dessert and like sweet love dessert that's what this is a big moment coming up now yeah yeah well when you get to your dream dessert now and i swear to God, if you skip this, like your goddamn wife.

No, no,

I would never skip dessert.

And even if I'm not really in the mood for one, I'm definitely the person at the table.

When everyone's got a gone, no, no, I don't really want a dessert.

I'm like, fuck.

And I order something for the table.

Yeah, so we've got to order at least one or two.

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So what's your what's your choice?

I've gone for tiramisu and I know I can feel people at home going, how novel.

But I kind kind of think it's like a good turamisu.

Do you like dessert?

I do.

I really like dessert.

I'm more of a starter's guy.

Okay.

I'm more of a savory guy, but I will, you know, if I'm out with this guy, I'm having dessert.

Dessert.

Because we're all having dessert.

I'll find desserts.

A good turmass

is a pretty amazing, wonderful thing.

And again, that's probably one of the first desserts that I would have eaten.

I don't think I had it as a kid.

I don't think we, I don't think I went to many Italian restaurants before I was 21.

I might have done in London once or twice.

Do you know what I mean?

So tiramisu was a bit of a sort of like, what is that?

Yeah.

And then I think it's just become a good one.

It's amazing.

It really is amazing.

I had the best one of my life recently.

So did I.

So yeah, were you first?

At different places.

Oh, that's weird.

Bristol, a place called Core, C-O-R.

Oh, right.

Did a Sicilian style Turumasu where instead of Sponge Fingers, they use Panettone.

Oh.

I've said it on the podcast before.

I don't know what order it's going to come out in, but I'm going to keep saying it every time Turimasu comes up because it was like Christmas put in Turumasu.

It was incredible and it was only on the menu for one day as a special.

And I want to try and bully the restaurant into having it permanently on the menu.

So the more I say on the podcast, the more people are going to go in and ask for it.

That's right.

And hopefully I can throw my weight around and make that happen because it was one of the best desserts I've ever had anywhere.

Definitely the best Turin Masoo I've ever had.

Wow.

It drove me crazy.

Mine was in Manchester.

Oh, really?

New restaurant called Scoff.

Brilliant chef called Tom Barnes.

Just opened.

Insanely like wonderful tasting menu.

and at the end like you're so used to all of these beautifully put together things on a tasting menu they just serve you up like a big helping of this tiramisu that he used to make for his dad like just before his dad passed so it's like it means so much and he comes to the table and explains that and it's just like i think because i think the cream is infused with coffee as well like so it's just got that coffee hit oh my god i can't wait yeah one of the things i love and i kind of touched on it a little bit is when you go somewhere and they are incredible and they can do all the kind of like almost chemistry stuff but they can still relate to the fact that fish fingers are pretty good.

Yeah, so if we could invent the fish finger again, yeah, or you know, like Heston Blumato does mad things, doesn't you know what I mean?

But even you can go somewhere and they go, Well, it's a Tiramisu, but it's got that in it, or it's got that in it, you know what I mean?

Whichever one, either one we talked about just then, it's like it is that.

And maybe there are purists who say, No, a Tirimusu should only ever be this.

Yes, I get that as well.

But I just think you guys sound like you go to a lot of high-end now and again, but you know, not all of of the time.

I think yeah, but definitely more since doing this podcast

and

getting into that more.

But yeah, we're not going all the time.

But like when we do, it's

pretty much, especially because of doing this podcast, your brain's automatically on record.

Yeah.

And you're like, right, what am I eating?

What do I love?

Can't wait to talk about that.

And yeah, you remember it even more.

And I'm going to that place that Ed just said soon.

So I'm very

tonight.

Yeah.

Bringing my dad with me.

Oh, brilliant.

That's his favorite dessert, Tuima Su.

Oh, wow.

And that's, Ed says it's the best tiramisu he's ever had.

So

I'm very much looking forward to just watching my dad while he eats that and says it's buttery.

And he can't have the one in Bristol unless they put it back on the menu.

Yeah.

So unless I successfully bully them, which I will successfully bully you if you're listening to this, and I know you listened to this owner of core because you said when I went in to the restaurant that you listen to off-menu.

So I know that you're listening to this.

Put it on the menu.

I'm going to bully the hell out of you.

But your tiramisu that you want, classic tiramisu?

I think I'd just go, I mean, generally speaking, I may have had one bad tiramisu in Italy, but I can't even remember doing so.

Yeah.

It's something that people have done for their kids and their kids and their kids.

It's just forever, isn't it?

Yeah.

Someone's grand or granddad has always been making a tiramisu somewhere in Italy.

Yeah.

And it's just part of the fabric of...

Italian food and sort of Italian life to some degree.

A bit like an espresso.

And that's one thing I was going to say because you go in.

I mean, I can't finish today without having an espresso, you see.

Absolutely.

That's just not.

I mean, yeah, absolutely.

We'll all send you that.

I love coffee.

I do love coffee at the end of a meal.

Every now and again, if I've had a very special meal

and we've maybe added a few little bits and bobs here and that, you know, maybe if we started,

if someone has a good idea of starting with cocktails and you'll have a martini or whatever at the top, usually by the end, you've done a few special things.

And I think having the idea to have a coffee at the end is pretty great.

Yeah, I just love it.

I kind of think it's, there's just something about it, I think.

Rounds it off.

Puts a full stop on it.

It does.

And again, I think anyone who likes coffee has, you know, we've all gone past that thing of crap coffee kind of thing.

Do you know what I mean?

It does infuriate me a tiny bit sometimes how expensive a coffee can be.

And again, I don't know whether, again, whether they still do this, but in Italy, it always used to be you couldn't pay more than a Euro for one.

Right.

If you stood at the bar and order an espresso, they weren't legally allowed to charge you more than a Euro,

which I thought was pretty amazing, really.

You do have to like neck it and leave, right?

So is that true?

Is that like when people say people have to accept stamps as legal tender?

Is that a real thing?

No, it wasn't.

I wasn't allowed to charge you more than

it was a real thing.

So even if you went into even if you went into like, you know, a five-star hotel or what have you in Rome or wherever and went into the bar area and said, can I have an espresso and stood there?

I don't think they were allowed to charge you more than a Euro for it, I think.

We won't charge you anything for this espresso.

It's the dream.

Or we'll charge you one Euro if it makes you feel better.

I'm going to read your menu back to you now, see how you feel about it.

You would like still tap water.

You would like Italian bread bread with olive oil.

Starter, the

swordfish carpaccio.

That's

the one I struggled with, is the word swordfish.

Main course, spaghetti alvangelé with bataga.

Yeah.

Side dish of rocket and parmesan.

You drink, you'd like an antinois chardonnay.

And dessert, a tuamasu, followed by an espresso.

And, of course, I will send over a block of parmesan for your wife.

Thank you.

She'd appreciate that big time.

Thank you so much for coming to the Dream Restaurant.

Pleasure.

Thank you.

Thank you, Vic.

I've enjoyed it.

Thank you.

Well, there we are, James, the lovely Rick Astley.

Thank you so much, Rick, for coming in.

Thank you.

That was a pleasure.

What a lovely menu as well.

Lovely menu.

And that's what I meant when I said he dipped his toe into the world of food and drink.

Yes.

He has bars.

He has bars, as far as he has.

Mix that.

Nice bars as well, actually.

Yeah.

Yeah, very nice.

Get yourself along there.

Good bars.

Have a crisp pint.

Have a crisp pint, yes, please.

Yes.

Yes.

And

I would say never

walk past one of those bars.

Always go in.

And that reminds me of the book Never.

Yes, very good.

The autobiography of Rick Aston.

That was less good than in the actual interview.

That was less of a good link than it was in the actual interview.

I got my confidence up for segues.

See, that's when I was trying to do it.

That's when you're at your worst, when your confidence is up.

Never is out on the 10th of October, and he's doing a book tour.

as well so people can go in here rick read the book talk about the book maybe there'll be a q a who's to say i'm not in charge and all details of that are on Rick's social media get on it people exciting stuff and of course Rick did not say seven up thank you for not saying never gonna give him seven up we were never gonna give you seven up I'm back on tour doing my show hot diggity dog going to lots of different places at gamble.co.uk for tickets uh doing another big london show in november if you've not seen the show so far come and see me at the london palladium in november my boy my it's my favorite show of ed's thank you james absolutely loved it and um i i've consistently laughed my head off every time I see Ed Gamble.

So that is saying something.

Bless you.

Ghostbusters Frozen Empire is available on

to stream on demand.

But remember, if you are watching it online, don't cross the streams.

Don't cross the streams.

Oh, good.

Slimer's still advertising it.

I'm still seeing Slimer on billboards, posters.

That guy is at the grindstone.

Yeah, he really is.

He's like Rick Asserly after he released his first single.

The rest of us have moved on from that ages ago.

Slimer is absolutely.

Yeah, but what other projects has he got going on?

Yeah, to be fair to him, I've got to send him a little something.

What's he going to do?

Yeah, keep sliming people.

So I thought I better promote it.

Yeah, imagine Slimer in a different film.

Well, he goes for auditions, apparently.

Yeah.

Never gets it.

They always end in slime.

Always end in slime.

See you next week.

See you next week.

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Hello, I'm Harriet Kemsley.

Single ladies is coming to London.

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