Ep 181: Cariad Lloyd

James, huge news from the world of off-menu and indeed the world of the world.

Yes.

Ever heard of the Royal Albert Hall?

I have.

We've done live shows there.

And guess what?

We're doing more live shows there next year.

Sure, a lot of them are sold out already.

But we thought, hey, throw these guys a bone.

Let's put on one final Royal Albert Hall show in that run.

The show will be on Monday, the 16th of March.

It's going to be a tasting menu, a returning guest coming back, receiving the menu of another previous guest.

Those shows have been a lot of fun.

We cannot wait to do them live.

Who will we pull out of our little magic bag?

You'll have to come along on the 16th of March to find out.

If I'm correct in thinking, presale tickets go on pre-sale on the 10th of September.

Pre-sale tickets are 10th of September at 10 a.m.

And then the general sale is 12th of September at 10 a.m.

So if you miss out on the pre-sale, don't forget general sale is only two days later.

The day in between is for reflecting.

Get your tickets from royalalberthall.com Hall.com or offmenupodcast.co.uk.

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Welcome to the Off Menu podcast, taking the pizza base of the internet, pouring on the tomato sauce of good times, adding the mozzarella of humor and sprinkling on liberally the pepperoni of friendship that's what i call a pizza baby that is ed gamble my name is james acaster we own a dream restaurant and we invite a guest in every week and ask them their favorite ever start a main course dessert side dish and drink and this week our guest is

Carrie

Lloyd Lloyd.

Carriead Lloyd, a wonderful comedian, writer, podcaster, improviser, extraordinaire.

Absolutely fantastic.

We love Carrie Ad Lloyd.

For a long time, we wanted to get her on this podcast.

We're excited that we've got her on this week.

She's got a new book out.

She's got a new book out.

You are not alone.

You are not alone.

If you're familiar with Carrie Add's work with the griefcast, so it talks a lot about grief and there's a lot of stories in there, a lot of maybe

helpful tips.

Yes, I think so.

She speaks very openly about that sort of stuff.

Yes.

So I'm like, I can't even say what she talks about.

That's how repressed I am.

Yeah, yeah.

Ed's not going to die, though.

yes

uh fans of the podcast uh will know that james thinks i'm not going to die yes i do know that right well maybe maybe that'll come up with carriad maybe you can explain that to carriead and she'll bring you back down to earth gently

uh gladly and i'll bring her back down to earth gently do go and buy carriad's new book you are not alone uh it's fantastic you will love it out now But if Carriead has a secret ingredient that we have decided upon in advance, we will kick her out the restaurant and she will be grieving her experience.

Oh, very good.

Bless you.

And this week, the secret ingredient is

Andouette.

Anduillette.

Andouillette, of course, came up in the Stanley Tucci episode of the podcast.

A big old stinky French innards sausage.

Loads of intestines.

On the outside, it might look like a sausage, but inside, it's loads of folded-up intestines.

Apparently, it smells revolting.

It is

inedible is what Tucci said.

Yeah, the Tooch ate it with the streep and said it was absolutely disgusting.

Imagine

the streepster on one day.

We'd love to get the streepster on, ask her about her experience with the stinky poo sausage.

Yeah, I mean, unlikely it will come up on anyone's menu ever, but just after that story from the tooch, I would say that we would be remiss.

It'd be remiss of us

as a secret ingredient.

So hopefully it doesn't come up.

But this is the off-menu menu of Carrie Adloy.

Welcome Carrie Ad to the Dream Restaurant.

It's so beautiful.

Welcome Cavead Lloyd to the dream restaurant.

Been expecting you for some time.

It's still quite scary even though I expected it.

Yeah,

that's my whole life, I think.

That was a big, a big explosion there for Carrie Ad?

Yeah.

Oh, I knew Carrie was expecting it, so I have to up the ante.

Yeah.

A bit of glitter.

Bit of showers.

Yeah, thank you.

Oh, you deserve it.

You deserve a bit more glitter, right?

I think so.

Yeah, thank you.

There's not enough glitter with most genies, I'd say.

What?

They're full of glitter.

That's their thing.

Is it?

Yeah, genie scene.

I would just imagine smoke.

I wouldn't imagine glitter coming in.

If you have small children and you're involved in that kind of magical cartoon world, there's a lot of sparkly glitter genie.

You're on the genie scene.

Yeah, yeah, I'm on the genie scene.

It's widely discussed in the genie community.

Yeah.

Is how much smoke versus glitter.

Yeah.

It's controversial, of course, the carbon footprint of the smoke had to be dealt with, but the glitter equally, if you're not using sustainable glitter.

Yeah, yeah, some genies use sustainable glitter, some genies don't.

Yeah, and I'm a sustainable guy.

Yeah, and a lot of it's been appropriated from the drag scene.

So it's about time genies gave their due to whether they're doing it.

Did genies appropriate from drag, or did drag appropriate from genies?

This is chicken and egg, this.

Yeah.

Yeah, well, genies are around since Aladdin times.

Ancient Aladdin times.

Just before Mesopotamia.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So I don't know.

When did drag start?

Well, drag's always been there yeah yeah so there you go so really we took it from the yeah

okay yeah yeah yeah that makes sense yeah yeah well joe what may i be the first genie to say that uh i acknowledge that and uh

i personally will try and do better thank you genie thank you you need to say that to the drag community i think yes that's to the drag community we had bimini bamboo lash on once i should have said it then yes you should have done yeah that's what i should have said it bimini if you're listening i'm sorry

you said the dream restaurant was beautiful It is beautiful.

Before the genie appeared.

What are you seeing in the dream restaurant?

It's just light, it's airy, lots of lovely fresh air.

It's unusual for a podcast restaurant to be so light and airy and friendly and welcoming and not damp.

There's normally a patch of damp in the podcast restaurant dream situation.

Is there?

Yeah.

What's the dampest podcast restaurant dream situation you've been in?

I think where I originally started recording Griefcast, which was above a pub, where someone had thought, yeah, yeah, there's a room, we could do this.

And they just like stapled random bits of foam.

Like not even like, oh, you know, this is soundproof foam, just random.

And yeah, I was interviewing Buckles, Adam Buxton, and he was like, this is just like a horrible six-form craft coffin that we are sitting in.

Perfect.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you could hear the police sirens as well, even.

even with the crap phone.

Yeah, that foam's doing nothing.

It did absolutely nothing, but sometimes you could touch it and that felt quite nice, you know?

Just through like, yeah.

Damp sponge.

Damp sponge.

damp sponge lovely how long have you been in griefcast for now as well it's a long time yeah long time in the podcast game since 2016.

so it's nearly six years old yeah about to be six years old actually nearly its birthday wow yeah and uh have you ever thought about you know incorporating a genie into that

do you know what i um some of the guests might like that if the genie was also using his medium skills yeah i mean like if you can then bring the dead back to talk that would be good I get a lot of mediums getting in touch wanting to come on the show.

And I'm like, have you ever seen that?

Not really the vibe.

Not really the vibe, guys.

No, I, well, without getting like too grief serious, like, obviously, you know, grieving people are quite vulnerable.

And if mediums work for you, that's fine.

Although I do believe some of them prey on vulnerable people and offer them hope that doesn't exist.

So I'm a bit wary.

of getting it.

I'm going to get shit from the medium community now.

Well, I mean, I'm not sure how many, how many mediums listen to this.

Yeah, I don't know how many.

I mean, we've never had them contact we've ever had a medium contact the podcast

yeah they don't tend to contact the living no so maybe they'll get in contact

when we die they'll get in contact to go love the podcast man

good to know

with your podcast it's whenever people say to me i want to start a podcast what should it be about i say you've got to go with something that you can keep talking about that's never going to stop grief or food yeah we've both done well yeah i think so and i don't know about you mine wasn't conscious i wasn't like oh this will last for six years i was just like oh I could definitely talk about that forever because that's my like specialist subject.

And then when it did become a job, I was like, oh, that's lucky that I chose this and not like episodes of Red Dwarf that I like because

that would have run out pretty quick season five.

So

yeah, it was unintentional.

Good luck.

Question I've always wanted to ask

is, so, you know, with our pod, if we think, oh, that person would be a good guest, we contact them, we ask them to come on.

I think what people always think about Griefcast is, at what point has Carrier decide enough time has passed that she can contact them and ask will you come on my podcast?

Yes.

Once the chortal article is out.

Hi,

how are you?

So sorry to hear about

would you like to?

It's such a difficult show to book.

Yeah.

Like I think every other podcast, like, you know, like obviously agents are involved or people like you like or you think, oh, they'd be fun.

With Griefcast, it's like, oh, I like that person or they're really eloquent at like speaking about things do they have a story that they want to share so either that's yes or no sometimes people are like no just one of those people don't know anyone who's really died and i think fuck you

um but great for you congratulations and then if they do have a story then they might not want to talk about it yeah so then i get a lot of tweets people like oh you should talk to at so-and-so and i'm like they might not

yeah don't at them don't at them because like they might not want to think about it today or they might not want to share their story so um yeah it's quite difficult often people approach me to be honest that's what happens people approach me and say

this has happened i'd like to talk about it yeah i think you you you asked me maybe to do a live one or something yeah the live one's different yeah and i sort of you know i don't have that much to talk about in terms of that but i felt like it's a good that's a good tactic you got in early with a request yeah so now you're just holding out waiting for a big one to happen yeah

i asked you before i asked you before so it's not like i've just been waiting for that yeah that has happened yeah i asked agree grief.

So Agreed Pass Live is me and three comedians, and it's not talking about like a person.

It's just like we plan a funeral, their funerals.

So it's very silly, but we're just talking about death in a light way.

And yeah, I asked someone to do Greed Pass Live, and then a couple of years later, they were like, so

I can now come and talk to you about someone.

And I was like, oh, sorry.

But also, great, when can you do it?

April?

Yeah, and it's really difficult.

I don't want to be an ambulance chaser as well.

So, you know what I mean?

I don't think anyone thinks you are.

No, but you do.

It's like, it's difficult.

And sometimes people don't want to talk about it which you have to be respectful of because obviously it's very much a show like i'm

people have cancelled on me like an hour before because i've just gone i walk to the studio and i'm in tears and i can't do it and i've had to go that's absolutely fine don't worry about it like you can it's just like it's amazing an episode happens i'm always like well it you chose to come and talk about something so personal and so difficult thank you like that's do you have a rivalry with um josh and rob because they do the opposite of your podcast yeah good point i do get jealous of the comedy ones yeah i get jealous like you go like you can just it's just you know that's going to be i know sometimes people cancel an hour before they're like i'm too full

i walk into the studio i'm so good i feel sick i feel sick i can't talk about it

yeah parenting hell is very but they cover grief actually this is what's interesting since i've started doing griefcast oh everybody wants to talk about grief yeah which is good it's a good thing but it's funny that i then hear on other podcasts being talked about like just freely And I'm like, wow, that wouldn't have happened.

It was like such a thing of like, oh, you don't, you don't talk about it.

There has to be a special room for it.

So it's quite nice now.

Although, obviously I get jealous when they talk about it.

And I think, why didn't you talk to me?

You're grieving the loss of your original format.

Yes, exactly.

Every time we see a podcast that is dream something, we're like, oh, hello.

Hello there.

As if we're claiming the format of having a conversation and dreams.

Yeah, I am.

I do, I do a lot of improv and I do a show called Ostentatious.

And there are, the same thing happens when we're not bothered, but sometimes other improv formats come out and people are like, aren't you annoyed?

And like, we didn't invent making stuff up.

Yeah.

In which case, ban all children in every playground in the country for pretending.

Like, we didn't invent that.

So you go make things up.

The Tories probably will try and bloody ban that anyway.

We'll try and ban that at some point.

Children having imaginations and dreams.

They already have.

Yeah, they already have.

Thatcher did it.

Yeah, Thatcher already did that shit.

Milk.

Yeah, she's dead.

Are you a fan of food?

I am a fan of food.

Certain foods.

I am a fan of food.

I'm not a foodie.

My husband is a massive foodie.

Oh, yeah.

So I'm like

a bad student who's had to like learn.

I grew up in like Finder's Krispie Pancakes.

He grew up in a world of like homegrown organic food.

So he has like helped me understand what that what I was eating was shit.

But have you also had a chance to introduce him to the wonderful world of Finder's Krispie pancakes?

No, he won't accept that world.

He's not.

Because there's something to be said for high-low though, right?

You've got to enjoy, you can enjoy a broad spectrum of things.

But if you've been brought up in the way that he was brought up with like proper homegrown, healthy cooking, you have no nostalgia for the plastic.

I guess so.

So I still get nostalgia for like that plastic cheese occasionally or like barbecue sauce on things.

It's just like meat mixed with barbecue, that kind of like, it's not right, but oh yeah.

And he bought this like pulled pork the other day, which had like homemade butt because he was like I know you'll like this it's so it's so cheap I know you'll like this yeah disgusting and he was right and I was like but he will cook like amazing things but the thing I've gone on about most is like oh that pulled pork with that sauce is so good but I am not a foodie I am and this might become obvious I am a sugar addict a major

major sugar addict so like food fine sugar essential James just breathed a sigh of relief yeah you you know the whole episode and we'll be happy as Larry yeah you are so I introduced sugar he wasn't really a sugar fiend until

yeah we got to get you get him addicted yeah I've got him completely addicted completely to the point where now he's like why isn't there any chocolate what what do you mean and I'm like well I was just trying to have a day where we didn't eat another bar of tony's why'd you do that why would you have a day

yeah where'd you put it where'd you hide it um yeah so i've made that quite bad which is annoying because now i have to share the pudding i didn't used to have to do that yeah i didn't think that through no i didn't early days yeah yeah focused on bonded and stuff yeah i should have just said it's not what don't eat it it's not very nice yeah that's what i do to my kids i go it's very dark chocolate you won't like it

spicy it's very spicy

and she'll go it just looks like chocolate cake no very spicy it's got chilies in it it's for grown up it's for grown-ups it's for grown-ups yeah

still my my dad's greatest achievement of his life was just hiding that he was a sugar addict during our childhood when we were all absolutely fell for it and wanted ice cream and he was like

very much like you should be able to control yourselves and only have it every now and again well and then he was just like as soon as our backs were turned he was his head in the freezer just snaffling a whole tub of like i do that's what i do i had a bag of like christmas tony bites you know like they do the mini love them and i'd given her one my daughter one as a like just to deal with a very bad mood and then she was like well can i have another one i was like no uh no you've already had one and this is when she wasn't looking i had snaffled four into my mouth with back turned different flavours hazelnut milk, and a white one, and maybe had another milk one.

And I was like, You can't, one a day, come on, come on,

you've had a lot today.

And then she was like, Okay.

And I was like,

All the more for me.

Yeah.

I think I've mentioned this in the podcast before, but I distinctly remember when I was a little kid, I got given some chocolates by someone, and my mum ate all of them one night.

And then

a couple of days later, I was like, I'd love some more chocolate.

And then my mum was like,

There aren't any any left i'm very sorry and the next day she'd brought she brought me to replace it brought me a chocolate monkey

like a hollow chocolate monkey but i went down the next day and she'd eaten the whole body

oh dear good on her it was just the head it was just the head in the box it was like seven yeah but parenting is awful so she deserved that more than yeah yeah yeah fair enough 100 didn't feel like that at the time no

well i guess parenting is awful

it's hard to feel like you're still yourself Why did I just buy two monkeys?

I would have shared the monkey with you, if you know.

She intended it to be for you, but then life made her make another choice.

Yeah, but there's something sad about a fully grown woman eating a chocolate monkey's body by herself.

That's not sad, that's motherhood.

That is just every mother listening will be like, Yes, that's what happens after a day of awful children.

You think, you know, I'm going to fucking eat your chocolate monkey.

There's only one of me.

She would have

eaten like a, she's gone, just I just have a foot.

Yeah, you know,

we've started.

You won't even notice

each part of the monkey.

Yes.

Before she gets to the head, I can't eat the head.

Yeah.

I eat the party sweets that come back.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

And then she'll go, once she was like, I never, you know, those lollies we get at parties.

I never eat them.

They're always gone.

I was like,

yeah, they disappear.

They disappear.

Actually, I chuck the lollies because they're gross.

Yeah, sure.

Yeah.

Not that.

What kind of lollies are they?

Oh, they're like the chubba chub or that like chalky one.

I hate the chalky one.

I hate the chalky one.

The Fuck is the chalky one.

I don't know how to swear on this.

Yeah, yeah.

Especially.

Is that the sort of thing that's still coming back in party bags?

Is it still the same as when we were kids?

The Swizzle Matthews or whatever.

Oh, what the Swizzle dip.

Yeah, like all of that stuff.

No, not that, but they do chuck a lolly in.

Yeah, because I that's too much sugar for it.

I did a gig in Guildford once, Comedy Club for Kids in Guildford.

And there was a birthday party in Comedy Club for Kids, wasn't it?

They all had party bags.

And I was like, give me that.

I want to have a look.

It was Hotel Chocolate.

Were you in Guildford?

Yeah.

And they'd done a party at Comedy Club for Kids.

Hotel Chocolate and a bath bomb.

Yeah, that's Guilford.

I went on a big rant, which you shouldn't do at Comedy Club for Kids.

Going, what are you relaxing from?

Why do you need to get home after a long day of being a kid and have a bath bomb?

Get off.

Yo, I'm just catching you up.

You're a poop head.

If we may return to grief for a second, please always do it.

Talk about you are not alone.

Yes.

Your book.

My book.

A new way to grieve.

Comedy, comedy.

Good loads of comedy here.

This is very exciting.

Thank you.

Did you write it during lockdown?

Yeah, I had a very...

odd experience.

I got the book deal in 2019.

Then I found out I was pregnant with my second child.

So I was like, well, that's a bit stressful, but it's all right.

You know, my daughter will be in nursery and I can get some help.

And then my son was born five days before the lockdown.

So I had two small children, the global pandemic and i was writing a book about my own dead father so it was fun times at my house it was like there's not enough chocolate monkeys in the world to deal with that

the chocolate addiction during that time was unreal every day i was like i mean i deserve more i deserve more chocolate i just yeah it was hardcore once i just it sounds like i'm sponsored by tony's and i'm not but it is my absolute when i found out in the pandemic you could order it online and they would oh just

it was a good day when five bars turned up i was like like, that's the next week's writing done.

The little like library of bars where they send all the.

I don't like the library because there's some flavours in there that are not okay.

So, I would make my own library.

Don't like the is it the dark one that you're not?

No, I'm fine with the dark one.

It's the white because it contains no cocoa.

Sure, it's not chocolate.

What are you doing?

And it's got popping candy.

And it's got popping candy.

Get out.

Get out.

I saw Jimmy Fallon feeding the rock popping candy.

Did you?

Yeah, because the rock doesn't eat sweets.

He has a cheat day once a week where he goes absolutely ballistic

and has like

mountains of pancakes and loads of sushi.

Everything.

Sushi, apparently, which I didn't know that was bad for you.

Great.

Well, it is in the volumes that he's eating.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

He's eating like entire whales.

But like

a whale on a paddy field.

You said he hadn't had candy since like he was a little kid.

Wow.

Can't remember what it tastes like.

And Jimmy Fannin was like, Johnson, popping candy and emptied it into the rock's mouth.

Wow.

And the rock had to say it was nice, but I thought, there's no way you think that's nice.

No, there's no way.

Like, we're sugar addicts.

Yeah.

And we don't even like it.

No, no, no, exactly.

Yeah.

But it's not,

it's the experience.

It's not sugar.

You're not getting a sugar hit from that.

You're just like, oh, my mouth is on fire and it's exploding.

Where's my sugar?

Yeah, that's the actual.

Yeah.

Anyway, grief.

The book, the book.

Yeah, the book.

Yeah, I wrote it during the pandemic, which was fairly depressing.

But like the griefcast, it is uplifting a read, I hope.

And it's a book that you can read in your grief and not feel completely like, oh, God, this is awful.

Which is always my intention to talk about grief in a way that's how I deal with grief, which is occasionally making some jokes about other things.

Yeah, it's supposed to be a helpful guide for anyone who is like, oh, shit, I just joined the club.

Or even like me, they're 20 plus years into this experience.

It's cheerier than it sounds is what I'm trying to convey to a comedy audience.

Also, when you talk about the pandemic, I think like a lot of people, like during the pandemic and now, like, you know, in this weird,

I don't know, I don't, I can't even call it a post-pandemic because it's still going on, but

where we we are now, I think there's been increased levels of people thinking about death, mortality, just even the future of

the entire human race.

I think this is a subject for,

even if people aren't currently grieving, a lot of people are thinking about this stuff at the minute.

And it's good to talk about, read about, you know.

Yeah, and that's what I intended it to be, that it's not like, oh, you have to be in the throes of like the worst grief of your life and pick this up.

Like, it's, we're all, sorry, spoiler alert, we're all going to die.

it's yep it's gonna happen and someone you know is gonna die and some maybe a very close friend that you love may be experiencing a grief so there's lots of advice for how to help people who've joined the club how to support them why we grieve like we do like what's the history of all these expectations that we have so yeah it's like a

a quick not quick it's not quick it's quite it's a normal size length book about grief that i promise you is not as depressing as you think that might be just to be clear though ed's not gonna die no this is james's theory that i'm not gonna die oh okay so that sounds like you need to know that james not ed

okay okay give that a little read buddy

you might be in here ed as the only person not going to die but that's the that's the end that's a footnote yeah you're all going to die it's going to be okay grief is something that never leaves you but you grow your life around it subnote ed gamble never die yeah ed gamble never die never died but what do we mean by death there you go what do we mean by death oh man he will always live in these podcasts that's true that's true actually immortal In your heart and your memories, and memories are a really important way to keep someone present.

Yes, which is why global warming and the end of the whole entire human race scares me because I think then people aren't around to listen to our podcasts anymore.

Yeah, that's true.

What do you think?

Do you ever think about when, you know, like people are like, oh, it's hard to listen to vinyl now?

Like, it's, I have a record book, but it's a bit for fa.

Will there be a time when you can't listen to a podcast?

I'd be like, oh, I've got to get the podcast player.

Yeah, I hope not.

And like, grandkids will be like, oh, don't bother.

Just press the button in your brain.

Yeah, it will be that way.

But I feel like if, you know, all these podcasts are on MP3 or whatever,

it feels like, it feels like whatever the button in the brain is,

we'd probably be able to transfer that into the brain button.

You'd hope so, wouldn't you?

Quite easily.

It's not like mashing a record into the brain, is it?

I hope not.

I feel that would be all right on people's brain buttons.

You reckon?

Yeah.

When society is just brains in freezers,

with

entertainment being played on a loop.

With an app, a podcast app still going, still like not quite working.

Is it bad that when you said everyone's brains in freezers and they're having entertainment played on a loop, I thought, oh, that sounds fucking great.

Of course, you can't wait.

I would absolutely love that.

Well, you're not going to die, so you're going to be there with the freezers.

I'm going to be out the guy putting the brains in the freezer.

Yeah, you'll be able to

do that.

Mind the chips and the peas.

There's James's brain.

Welcome to Off Menu.

It's still happening.

James is still with us.

Be bad.

Yeah, be good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I love that brain in a a freezer.

That sounds like girlfriend in a coma.

Follow up.

We always start with still or sparkling water, Carrie.

Do you have a preference?

I do.

And it's still, because I don't understand why you would add more gas to any situation of a body.

It doesn't need more gas.

I don't need more gas.

Very burpee.

Been quite good so far.

Really?

And the sparkling, when people, have you ever had a meeting when they only order sparkling?

And it's like everyone's like, yeah, sparkling, sparkling.

Why would you have still?

And then you have to to sip sparkling water being like

excuse me excuse me so surely in that scenario you should be going like still to make sure they remember you

yeah

I guess I'm just so terrified of the meeting in itself that I'm afraid to be my true self Ed which is still water which is still water yeah I'm a bit bad sometimes at those meetings of being like I don't want that I don't drink caffeine and so often that is quite a that gets upsets everybody they're like oh do you want a coffee and you're like oh can i have a hot chocolate

Which is what I go for because I'm like, I need some sugar.

That'll make them remember you.

They do, and they think, what is this strange child who wants to make comedy about deaths?

And you're like, I just needed some sugar.

I just needed a sugar here.

You needed a coffee here.

I need a sugar.

Why am I judged?

Sure.

Sorry.

Yeah, you shouldn't be judged.

How many marshmallows do you have in those situations?

It depends.

Is it homemade marshmallow or is it those cheap fuckers?

Oh, homemade marshmallow.

You know, you go to a posh place and they've got like homemade marshmallow.

Yeah.

I mean, I don't like those cheap pink and white ones.

That's just adding colouring.

See, for me, that's my Finders Krispy pancakes.

Right.

Or those little marshmallows.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's the A Caster house.

Yeah.

I love the idea of you being in a meeting and going,

would you like a coffee?

No, I have a hot chocolate, please.

And some of those marshmallows if you've got them.

Yeah, yeah.

Homemade.

It's taken me a long time to realise that some of my behavior is odd.

And that's the sort of thing I would have done and then gone, why did that meeting go bad?

I was fine.

And now I'm getting to the age I'm like, oh, I see.

That isn't what they expected you to do.

And that's what I'm learning.

That's not always.

I don't see you as a gassy person.

Oh, that is such a complicated.

That was surprising to me as well.

Well, people who know me closely will laugh because I'm extremely gassy.

My family is gassy.

I write about this in the book.

My dad, absolutely infamous for his gas levels.

Awful.

The family stories are unbelievable.

Cleared a lift, cleared a lift.

The whole lift got off.

Nice.

Whole lift got off.

Like a packed, you know, businessmen lift, secretaries in the 80s, 25 people.

And they all got off and they all just stared at him as the doors closed and he went sorry

so in that situation if that was me dropping the egg on the lift yeah i would get off with everyone

so they don't know who who it is right yeah yeah my dad again your dad just did that

i would trip someone as i was going off so that they even remain in the lift yeah or my dad a bit like me

you know odd an odd man and so he would he was very like well yeah that's who that's who it was it was me okay

but yeah anyway still water still tap water Absolutely fine.

There's nothing wrong with it.

Delicious.

I drink loads of water all the time.

I'm someone who, because I've listened to your show.

Yes.

I don't know why people go, oh, it doesn't taste it.

It tastes of water.

It's nice.

It refreshes you.

Your body needs it.

Why is everyone so weird about it?

I don't understand.

Ice and a slice?

I wouldn't mind.

I get quite cold.

So, you know, when sometimes there's too much ice, I'm very fussy.

You're picking that up.

They give you too much ice and then as you touch it, you're cold.

And you think, I'm so cold now so just a little bit of ice a little bit of lemon yes all your farts and burps coming out like ice pickles

i can't bear it when it's like oh well now i'm freezing just drinking this water is like no hot chocolate warms you up and someone gives you something ice ice cold and you're like god i'm so cold now look

we've come back to hot chocolate again yeah

If you don't want still sparkling water, you can choose hot chocolate.

Yeah, we won't stop you from having to watch it.

No, because I do, because you need, because if you're a sugar fiend, I don't know about you, you need that constant supply of water to deal with how much sugar you're drinking.

yeah yeah the other day it's probably only like two days ago or whatever but i had a glass of water in the evening and i hadn't realized that all day i had not had any water

and when i had it in the evening i literally said out loud oh god water's so delicious

i actually love this i said to whoever i was with i said i actually i love this i love it and they were like what I was like, I love this water.

Every time you start a story about your life, me and Benita always look at each other.

Yeah, yeah, always.

Yeah, always.

Like, here he goes.

We're going to get some other insight into it.

There's a weird guy's alive.

I once had a really bad day with my daughter and I honestly thought, I'm a bad mum.

This is like, this is, I'm a bad mother.

And then I downed a pint of water and I was like, no, I'm dehydrated.

And that's what I often say to parents.

You don't get a chance to drink the water because you're so busy and running after someone else.

And you do that pint and you're like, fuck, I'm, I'm a good mum.

I'm a good person doing my best.

I'm thirsty.

Yeah.

It's a big difference.

Yeah.

Right now at Disney, Disney World, Florida, they're doing cold hot chocolates.

Yes, I've heard of this.

Are you guys getting the same magazines?

It's like a martini glass.

Oh, okay, yeah.

It's like a Sunday, but like a hot chocolate, a bit boozy, I think, as well.

Chocolate milk.

No, no, no.

Frozen hot chocolates, they're calling them.

It's slightly different.

Frozen hot chocolates, and they've got some booze in them.

Okay.

And apparently they're added as well, they're out of sight.

There's a place in London that does like hot chocolate milkshake.

It makes it like properly with the melted chocolate.

The key is you can't be having the powdered chocolate.

It's like you need the melted chocolate mix with the milk and then they spin it with ice.

Oh, yeah.

It's really good.

Great.

Yeah, I had that in the summer and I was like, that has absolutely ticked that hot chocolate box in a cold fashion.

Thank you.

That's what they I don't think this is gonna make you probably a little bit

spin-off.

No, I'll be honest, I feel pretty left out of this conversation.

Yeah, well I'd like a mortal boy.

You can console yourself if you have a laughing life.

Had a day at the Hotel Chocolat kitchens.

Oh, God, I really want to do that so badly.

Well, yeah, it was good.

Surely that will happen for you now.

Okay.

You've said hot chocolate enough.

We did made hot chocolate there.

With their velvetiser.

With a velvetiser.

But then put it in

a cocktail shaker with both of ice cubes.

Oh, yes.

So there's immediately chilling it.

And

that was great.

Still got the little sachets you bought me, actually.

Oh, yeah.

I made eggs some hot chocolate.

But I guess you haven't drunk it yet.

Because you don't care about hot chocolate, it seems.

Waste.

I know who I'll be giving it to next time.

Yes, thank you, please.

Pop knobs or bread.

Pop logs or bread.

Carry out, Lloyd.

Pop knobs or bread.

I've got a request.

Yep.

Can I have a pan of chocolate?

Oh, my God.

Who saw that coming?

All right.

I'm strapped in for this episode.

Ed, what is your impression of a pan of chocolate?

No, you can come see me live if you want to see the closing of my show.

It's disgusting.

Yeah, what?

Is it anti-panna chocolate?

It gives it little chocolate nipples.

It does have little chocolate nipples.

Where?

At the front.

The little little chocolate bits at the front.

The sloth size.

Oh, don't tell me the material doesn't work.

I see when you've sliced it in half.

Sorry.

I was thinking of it that way, and I was like, what eyes do you want?

You're like a lizard.

At the front, it's got a lot of stuff.

I don't even fucking know either.

But are you laughing at Pana Chocola?

It's the first time anyone's picked a Panachakala for the bread course.

Yeah.

I do like it.

And I do respect it.

And I, I, I, what's the word?

I'm Dinard.

What's a better word than that?

I ruminated about this.

I like I'm Dinard.

Thanks.

I think that's more fitting to the situation.

Thank you.

I'm Dinard.

Because I've had some amazing bread in some very good restaurants.

But then the thought of not having a pana chocolate in my, because I

almost every day pana chocolate or cinnamon bun.

But to me, I thought the cinnamon bun is.

I could have had it.

It just felt like the pana chocolate almost sneaks into the bread category easier than the cinnamon bun.

Yeah, I agree with that.

So I was like, okay, cinnamon bun, it's hedging towards puddings, isn't it?

So the panachoc from a specific place,

meal, I don't know if that's how you say it, M-I-E-L.

It's the French word for honey, so I might not be saying it right.

Mille, mill, mill, mill, mille, it's just near Warren Street, and it's one of the best bakery patisseries in London.

Everything from that shop is incredible, but they do a very good Panachock and they do a

gandujo, however you say that one, Nutella type Panachock, a special one with like chocolate lines all over it.

That is very good, but it's almost too much for the breadcrumbs.

Yeah, not like a normal panachock.

No, that's like a normal, just easy pana shock.

So I'm like a panachock for my breadcrumb.

It's too much for the breadcourse.

What I'm obviously going to pick up on that I'm surprised Ed hasn't picked up on yet is Panachock.

Panachock?

Because if you're saying that is how much you're saying Panachocola in your life, that you have to shorten it to Pana Shock.

Panachock.

I've never met anyone before who's called it Panachock because they're normally.

Who calls it Panachakala?

Oh, people who have only one a year.

Yeah.

Panachakola.

I say.

Can you shorten it even more than that?

Some people call it a pack, PAC.

Who calls it that?

Oh, like

no, like bad station bakeries.

Because I've been looking before and I've gone, what's a BAC?

I want a Panachock.

And I've gone, oh, they've caught it.

Yeah, Pana Shock.

That might be, I have a lot of bad verbal habits with my mums from Essex.

And that is what my mum calls them, Pana Shock.

Do you want a Pana Shock?

Let's get two Pana Shocks.

I'll have a Pana Shock.

Oh, you've having another one.

You eat so much sugar

while ordering me sugary based.

So I think that might be a slightly Essex thing rather than me.

Like amazing croissants, an amazing croissant dough is as good as amazing bread.

Yes, and that's what makes like proper, proper me.

It's French pedisserie, but the person who runs it is not French, but they've trained there.

And it is that kind of like, I used to live in Paris very briefly, and it is that, it is as good.

as the panachock.

Loads of layers.

Loads of layers and good chocolate.

Those two eyes you're talking about.

Nipples.

Yeah.

Nipples.

That's a bar.

That's when the cheap bar, you know, know, they just put this is like you, you know, like, it's like they put chocolate inside it.

Yeah.

You are getting chocolate.

But that's what people think of when they think pana chocolate, which is why the material works.

Yeah, yeah.

To be fair anywhere, in context, he's talking about a breakfast buffet, a pan of chocolate, you get the breakfast buffet, and it's all there and no shock.

And those little nipples make you think that there's shock in there.

Oh, that is the worst.

There's no shock in there.

Because that's a machine putting the bars down and the machine chopping off the end of a bar.

And I've worked that out by by being upset by this happening to me.

So I've gone, what the fuck?

That had two big nipples.

I was going to get big butt chocolate.

And this is all pastry.

No, no, I didn't buy a croissant.

I bought a pan of shock.

Yeah.

I need the shock to deal with it.

Where's the shock?

Where's the shock?

I'm in shock at this pan of shock.

Oh, yes.

I might go to this meal place because

I don't get pan of shocks ever.

Because when I was younger, my mum did homemade pan of shocks and they are the best I've ever had

anywhere.

Full of chocolate.

So much chocolate.

oh just so much chocolate it was nuts

loads of butter really like uh flake it was like dirty yeah that's if a dirty pan of chocolate if a petissier looked at your mum's pan of chocolate people would probably be disgusted yeah they were like this is so greasy and dirty and gross and why are you doing this like have a bite of it mate and then shut up

that is delicious they should be greasy this is what annoys me when they're like oh it's greasy like it's butter the bag should be going see-through it's not doing that it's not a good when i was in paris the bags went see-through that was pride of place to have

any bags left after my panic shops

disintegrate in your hand i really want one now like that they were

straight out the oven

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and we're back live during a flex alert dialed in on the thermostat oh we're pre-cooling before 4 p.m folks and that's the end of the third time to set it back to 78 for 4 to 9 p.m Clutch move by the home team.

What's the game plan from here on out?

Laundry?

Not today.

Dishwasher?

Sidelined.

What a performance by Team California.

The power truly is ours.

During a flex alert, pre-cool, power down, and let's beat the heat together.

Panoraisan for starter?

Yeah, but something a bit more safe.

Panoraisan.

I mean, no, come on.

It's not if you're desperate.

So I...

I have a recording of someone saying this should I play that what yeah because um

what do you mean so it's it's a Japanese dish

and my sister-in-law is Japanese and so I asked her to say it properly

yeah an okonomiyaki pancake is what I want for starter so yeah not I've gone I've love it come to savory an okonomiyaki pancake please from Osaka That's where they are from.

Yeah.

But you can get them here, but they're not as good as they were in Osaka.

Okonomiyaki is so good.

They're so good.

Yeah.

So it's cabbage?

Well, it's all sorts.

It can be, yeah, it's like, it's kind of like an omelette to me, is what it seems like.

But yeah, it's like cabbage and sometimes it's fish, sometimes it's shredded meat and like cooked in this specific round way.

And then it's served.

This is with the Japanese mayonnaise, which is sweet.

Yeah.

And then a kind of barbecue sauce.

And then

it's got your barbecue sauce in it.

Yeah.

And as you know, you top it with bonito flakes.

Yes.

The great bonito flakes.

Bonito flakes.

There is another word.

Katsubushi.

Katsubushi, they're called.

Or bonito flakes is what I'm calling them, which is like flake tuna.

And sometimes, because they put like other stuff on there as well.

Sometimes you can have, you can paste anything.

You can have almost anything, yeah.

But the diet.

Like chunks of batter as well go in there.

I haven't seen the chunks of batter.

Oh my god, they're crazy.

It's so good.

It's sort of almost like an omelette and bubble and squeak.

And that's sort of because the cabbage is in there, like the shredded white cabbage.

And I don't know why they call it pancake, because it isn't really, but it's referred to as like Japanese pancake.

But yeah, it's more of an omelette, bubble and squeak.

But it's just like, like, the way that bubble and squeak, I think, is like, it's all right.

Yeah.

You don't really want it.

But it's there.

Whereas this is like they've gone, oh, we see your bubble and squeak and we're going to add better things to it

and make this really palatable and in this nice little circle, which they can cut up and they put the bonito flakes on and it just and they all like melts.

It's like fish and barbecue and mayonnaise.

And oh, I'm, I want one so badly now.

That's so good.

It's so good.

That Kewpie Mayo

is the best thing in the world.

But it's so weird because it isn't mayonnaise like we would know.

It's very different, the QP may and the Japanese mayonnaise.

Little baby on the bottle?

Yep.

Is there a little baby on the bottle?

Yeah, their logo of the QP is like a little weird sort of baby clown.

Weird thing.

Baby weird clown.

Baby weird clown.

But my sister and I was from Osaka and they got married out there.

They had many weddings, but one of the weddings was out there.

And that's when I first had it.

She took us to like the local and she was very like oh this is just yeah we'll just grab some okonomiaki before we go and do this wedding thing and all of the english people like this is so good this is amazing and we like lost our mind and i didn't know the bonito flakes were fish for ages i just kept adding them because i thought they were just delicious pink flakes yeah and someone was like that is like flaked tuna basically added to your pork okonami it's a bit weird

those things works because when they go on a hot thing they yeah they just smelt they're like just float down like yeah all bobbling around yeah like those fish you put on your hand.

Yeah, yeah.

See if you're sexy.

That's what the great Bonito does.

He moves around like that.

Yeah, he floats around.

If you look at him, he's never completely still.

If you put Bonito on your palm, the way he curls up tells you how sexy you are.

I do know what those lucky red fish didn't just tell you how sexy you were.

There was a bit of that, though.

That sucked.

They repurchased them for Valentine's quite a lot as like love.

When I was a kid, yeah, it wasn't those ones.

Yeah, as far as I knew, it's got nothing to do with it.

I think it was just told you if you were fickle.

You probably ate it because you thought it was a sweet.

Yes.

No regrets.

No regrets.

Well, apart from the fact that it wasn't sweet.

Yeah, it wasn't a sweet.

That was annoying.

But hey, Swedish fish.

Is that that?

Swedish fish?

Are they sweet?

You're going to love them.

Are they sweet, sweet?

Yeah, they're really delicious.

Okay, but are they licorice?

Is there any licorice?

Okay, because Swedish, any scan named Norman made chocolate.

I'll never steer you towards licorice.

Thank you so much.

It's disgusting.

It's gross.

Yeah.

People eat it.

Swedish fish you'd love.

Okay.

Although I feel like that about licorice.

It's disgusting.

Yeah.

But I went to Iceland recently.

Oh, did you have good licorice?

And they love salted licorice and chocolate-covered salted licorice.

And I brought some back, and I was like, I brought it back because it's like a traditional thing or whatever.

Next thing you know, I was up and down to the cupboard about eight times, whole pot gone.

Well, it's the salt and the sugar bringing you back.

We just needed some heroin in there to really make it slightly adult.

Yeah, I grew up with a lot of licorice because my mum's best friend is Danish.

So it was like all the time, no, try some.

No, you will like it.

You're wrong.

And then I would always eat it.

And if you've got that sweet palette, it's like it's the antithesis of that, isn't it?

And I'd always be like, It looks like it's sweet, but it's not.

Yeah, awful.

Like, licorice all sorts.

So upsetting if all they had is licorice all sorts.

Just, I wouldn't then know.

This has been discussed on the pod before.

I like the pink bit, but it's not.

It's not what you need.

How would you go about beating up or keeping it in grief, killing Bertie Bassett?

How would I kill Bertie Bassett?

Yes.

I like the way you think that's keep it in grief.

Because there's like true crime podcasts and there's grief podcasts and we don't really mix because like I don't want to hear about true crime because I'm dealing with the aftermath of grief.

How would I comfort someone who had lost Bertie Bassett?

Oh yeah, maybe that's more.

I would ask them his name and I'd be not afraid to say it.

I remember the anniversary of his death.

Try and remember the six-month anniversary, the year anniversary, put a note on my diary so I could say, hey, I know it's about a year ago, wasn't it, that Bertie died.

Just wondering, how are you feeling?

Are you okay today?

Don't ask, how are you?

It's too big a question, but how are you today?

It's a really easy question for someone grieving to answer.

So that's how I would help with that.

Would you be able to put to one side your hatred for licorice, though?

Yeah, because grief, it doesn't matter.

If someone is grieving, you can be there for them.

Whether you hated that person, whether you're estranged, if you hadn't spoken to for years, if they made disgusting licorice, you can still be there.

Also, I'd feel weird.

I'd feel more weird talking about the death of Bertie Bassett if I'd spent a lot of my time eating licorice.

Yes, true.

Because Bertie Bassett is made of licorice.

Yeah.

Sure.

So that's like the last person they want to hear.

Yeah.

Just to be clear.

Yeah.

I shouldn't contact you about your podcast if I've killed someone.

No.

There's different podcasts.

True Crime.

I would go for an American True Crime podcast because they would like a 14-part series

hunting you down.

Even then I wouldn't go straight to a true crime podcast or if you have murdered someone.

I don't know.

Good deals, good tie-in deals, exclusive.

Look at the end.

If you're on the lamb, I'd keep it quiet for now.

If I'm on the lamb, I can run a food podcast.

Am I?

I'm sticking on off-menu.

That's good.

We should do some spin-off specials with Prisoners on the Roan called On the Lamb.

The Lamb.

That is a delicious beginning.

And I'm very glad that that's made an appearance.

Every now and again, there's something that has not made an appearance on the pod before that I'm

delighted gets a shout out on the pod.

And that is something that for a long time, I think maybe we steered close to it.

Maybe people have said something similar.

And I've been like, oh, that would be good.

And that makes me very happy that that's on there.

So this is a great start.

Good.

I'm glad.

And I can eat things that don't have sugar as long as there's some

condiments.

Yeah.

Your dream main course.

Yeah, my dream main course.

Look, it's a bit, it's not exciting, but it's my dream main course.

And that is because you do need to have something that doesn't have sugar in to appreciate the sugar so I am someone that if I go to a restaurant the first thing I do is scan puddings and then work out what I need to have to make sure I've got room for the pudding

so thank you James I feel like I'm I'm at least I'm not alone as the book says you are not alone

yeah you should read it so My main course is a bit is simple because my pudding is more complicated because obviously I was like, well, I need room.

So it is just a really sundae roast chicken yeah like a roast chicken and i know that's a bit boring but it is like i was not expecting this oh right yeah yeah yeah because what you said was you check the puddings to make sure you have room for the plate

and now you've gone with a sundae roast which has got to be top three most filling meals on the planet yeah

but i would i'm careful with my sundae roast i'm not someone who piles on like i make sure the plate is i don't like it when there's when then it's like there's no plate yeah i'm like come on and there's specific obviously very specific bits of the roast that I would have that I would like.

Take us through.

Okay, so a roast.

You know what I think isn't going to make an appearance prediction?

I don't think you're going to have parsnips on this.

Bold, why?

But you know what you can do with parsnips?

Oh, yeah.

Roast them in honey.

Oh, yeah.

But parsnips are sweet.

That's why I was so shocked.

I was like, parsnips are basically sugar.

I said, I thought maybe not.

The sprout.

No, thank you.

I'm already gassy and it has a very bitter flavour.

I had sprouts for lunch.

Did you?

Just for lunch?

Yeah.

I'm just not sure.

I'm okay with all this new

stuff.

Roast sprouts.

I know.

My husband says this all the time.

He like pan-fries them with pancetta and walnuts.

Ugh, I know.

Your husband's an absolute G.

He is.

He's a really good cook.

Yesterday, cooked by the person who won Bake Off.

Oh.

The person who won the latest series of Bake Off C, so I don't know people's names, but she made these sprouts.

I thought you're very delicately not giving a spoiler warning for people who might not have seen it.

And then you just went, I don't remember her name.

I don't know her name.

Did you like to say thank you when she gave me the sprouts?

yes i did say thank you thank you zingy

thank you bake off thank you bake off lady very tasty also but do you want sprouts from a bake off winner or do you want cake yeah i would i was hoping for cake yeah like that i'd be really disappointed if that happened what yeah i'd be like i came to this for cake if it was an event where they're like the bake off person i'd be like oh my god cake yeah don't diversify now just give me the cake seemed odd yeah that is it

was a tv show and they were like we're going to make you eat some disgusting food first and then bring out our two bake off contestants on to give you some nice food.

So I was like, here comes the cake.

Here comes cake, amazing.

And they're like, we made you Brussels sprouts and turkey.

And I was like, oh, well, this is nice.

But

is it going to be like, you know, it looks like turkey and Brussels sprouts, but it's actually cake when I cut into it?

No.

Oh, that's really annoying.

Yeah.

The lack of cake when you think there's going to be cake is one of my biggest, like, I can't.

You know,

when's that happen?

Oh, like in events or parties when like the cake, oh, wedding.

Yeah.

Fucking cheese.

no when there's a cheese pile we didn't want a cake fuck you

because everybody here wanted a cake everybody here came a cake when they do like that you know like a tower of cheese there you go tower better name for it it's a pile came

i'm not doing any marketing for the cheese people okay cheese pile that's what it looks like to me need to be marketed disgusting cheese pile awful cake you need cake or sometimes you know when people are polite and no one's cut the cake yeah i i can't i can't concentrate well what happens often at weddings as well, which will really annoy you, is they'll cut the cake and then sort of whisk it away.

Or it goes away to be cut.

Not for people who hang around the cake.

Yeah, but what if it gets taken in the back?

Are you then waiting by the door?

No, you hang around and you loiter.

They go, oh, do you want a bit?

Oh, yes, please.

Thank you.

Are you invited to this wedding?

None of your business.

I am such a loiterer of cake.

Like, I'll just make it awkward until someone, until people are like, kids' parties, you hang around that cake.

And then this is the best.

You've got kids.

Oh, I need two.

Yeah, one for the kids.

Sorry.

And then straight one into your gob.

Yeah.

And then pass the child, but obviously eat some of the.

Yeah.

Are there

loads of families who think you've got triplets?

Yeah.

One time we didn't, I tried to not let my daughter have sugar at first because I think I was worried about me and it would happen.

So for her like first couple of years, we tried to just easy, like, not do it.

Son, second one, iwi, like, he's having Kit Kats for breakfast is fine.

And she gave her this big slice of cake and it had chocolate icing on the top.

And she hadn't had icing and I was like, oh shit, if she finds out icing exists, we're fucked.

She can't know.

We used to just do cook plain chocolate cupcake and she'd be like, wow.

And you're like, yeah, that's the sugar.

That's it.

And so they gave it to me.

And I just bit off the icing straight away because I was thinking that immediately I'm going to hand it to her.

And

so she can't even see icing exists.

But it was in front of like four parents who didn't know me very well.

And they just really thought I had just taken it from my child and they they just looked yeah I had but the reasoning was I didn't know them well enough and it was when you're first when you're like first round parenting it's quite difficult you have really awkward social situations all the time and I tried to say oh we don't want her to have too much sugar obviously I was covered in chocolate yeah you'd just eaten it it's not like you

like putting it spitting it back onto a paw patrol plate and then being like there you go there you go

No, no, it's because it's it's for her

but it was quite a large amount of buttercream so I'd eaten most of of it so it really looked like like I was some evil mother that was like she can't have all the cake I'll have half yeah anyway roast chicken roast chicken so roast chicken cooked by my husband he was an amazing amazing amazing amazing cook incredible like I am really spoiled over lockdown it was insane like I actually said can we just not have roast duck with puy lentils and a jou today I'm fed up of it like

That's the kind of thing, kind of bullshit I was coming out with.

And he was like, oh, okay, what do you want?

I was like, just want a ham sandwich, something simple.

He got so into it, and obviously he had so much time to cook that it was like eating at a restaurant every night.

And I just couldn't cope.

I got really stressed.

I got really stressed.

That sounds tough, mate.

Yeah, it was really.

But I was writing a book about death.

So that was tough.

The death book was tough.

So, and obviously I was a bit stressy about writing a book and wasn't.

Especially with your gas.

You can't mean having lentils every night.

Exactly.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Sometimes he serves things.

And I think, I say, well, you're going to have to deal with this.

Not me.

I don't care.

I don't have the embarrassment.

I'm supposed to sleep in the other room if you you give me lentils.

Yeah.

You've already had your cabbage starter here.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, terrible.

Or they go, if you go to a dinner party and they give you onion soup or onion tart.

Oh, my God.

Do you know what?

I was gas for the whole.

That's it.

I'm in trouble.

Yeah.

Why can't you just go to a dinner party and they're like a normal place and give you a pan of chocolate at the beginning?

Yeah, a pan of shock.

Absolute dream.

Absolute dream.

Pana shock, but in a rock.

What they say at the start of the dining room.

I wish I still did Edinburgh and that would be my title.

Yeah, that's good.

Paradise.

Pana shock.

In for the title.

Rose chicken cooked by him and then roast potatoes which he does in goose fat.

Apologies vegans but they are so fucking good.

Well you've got a chicken on there already.

But that seems fair enough.

Carrots honey roasted.

Yeah.

With oh what's he does a nice herb with them.

Any old herb.

There's one.

As long as the honey's there.

Yeah honey roasted.

with some fresh herbs.

A Yorkshire pud, small one.

I'm not going crazy.

Now, we'll come back to that.

Okay.

Parsnips, just plain fashion roasted.

But then my mum has to cook the carrot and broccoli because my mum has a particular ability to not cook it that well.

But I like it the way because then my husband would be like, this isn't, and I'm like, no, no, but it's like childhood.

Yeah.

Bit crunchy, a bit not quite cooked.

Lovely.

Yeah.

That's just like.

You like it more on the crunchy side than the soggy side.

Oh, soggy broccoli.

If that, if you've got little bits of green going all over your plate, mixing with the gravy, no, the broccoli is a whole, it shouldn't disseminate.

No.

I really got into doing roast roast broccoli

in the lockdowns and like roasting it with loads of garlic,

chili, and then like when it comes out of the oven, like mixing it with loads of parmesan and lemon.

That sounds amazing.

It was great.

That was like

really nice.

I got into my own style of brock.

Yeah.

Pana brock.

Pana pana brock.

I did it in a pan.

So it's pana brock.

Pana brock.

Pana brock.

Where did the rock?

Here we go.

Griddle pan.

Matt Tebbitt told me how to do it.

Who?

Matt Tebbitt, host of Saturday Kitchen.

Yes.

Griddle pan, really hot.

Yeah.

Long stem broccoli.

Oh, yeah.

That's fancy broccoli for me, but yeah.

Down in the pan, listen, listen to the recipe.

Down in the pan, another heavy pan on top of the brock.

Oh, yeah.

Top of the brock.

And then just hit that for like three minutes, just have it like really charring, flip them, do that for two more minutes.

It's cooked through as much as you want it to be, and it's like charred and like a bit smoky.

That sounds really nice.

You got your your salt and pepper on, though, and everything?

No, just after.

You do need a good griddle pan, don't you?

That's the chicken for cooking.

That's what I've discovered for my husband.

Like, you actually need

some good stuff.

Well, you need some basics.

Yeah, you do, and it's expensive.

It's expensive, guys.

That's what I've discovered.

But for roast, for me, I don't want long stem.

Like, when long stem turns up, I'm like,

no, come on.

No, I want the short, stubby trees.

Carrots and brog.

Traditional brog.

Yeah, traditional, just boiled.

Bit of salt and water, not very much.

Just boiled nicely, kept their shape.

Good work.

I don't know how my mum does it.

She boils them together.

Even though the carrots take longer and they're all, well, that's why, because everything's not cooked.

I don't know how she does it.

She boils it together and it shouldn't work.

And she fucks it up with food.

But it tastes, it tastes lovely.

And then I have to say, gravy, proper gravy.

Properly proper gravy.

Because I grew up, I grew up Bisto World and it wasn't since I got...

married I understood that you could actually make gravy.

The worst time, the worst example of my upbringing versus his is that he said one time, why don't I just make a pasta sauce?

And I laughed and said, Who are you, Lloyd Graceman?

And he was like, What?

I was like, You can't make pasta sauce

in a jar.

What do you mean?

I had no concept that's like he, that we could make sauce because I grew up with you just putting

the perfect reference.

Yeah, I was just like, so confused.

And he looked at me and he was like, You know, like, I could make that jar and I could make it nicer.

i was like oh

big talk

big talk so what you make it and then you pour it in a jar and seal it up and then you take it out and pour it onto the yeah and i've since learned obviously i've learned you can make pasta sauce but that for me is a like the pinnacle example of what we both grew up with i did not know so now i know you're about real gravy yeah i'm i'm on board of real gravy see i i'm almost maybe the opposite i i do love real gravy gravy but i was brought up with like real gravy

so to me it seemed like a treat

to have the bisto stuff, to have the really salty

kind of like that kind of like, I remember having that around a friend's house and being like going insane for it as a kid.

Like, this is amazing.

I did make him, like, I still keep it in the cupboard because I'm like, occasionally you do want a bit of bisto.

Occasionally, you just want that bisto hit.

Yeah.

And he is so pained because he will like roast, you know, then cook the pan over the hob and like get all the fat and juices and then add it and add the flour.

And it takes him like, oh my God, he'll like, he, he, when he makes the roast potatoes, he peels the potatoes and keeps the potato skins and then boils that to get this kind of potatoey water that you add to the gravy because it's really starchy and gives

absolutely I know he should be here.

He's really upset.

I genuinely, when he found out, he was like, it's outrageous that you are going to talk about food.

I feel like you've given him enough of a shout.

And I said, yeah, he was like, you better fucking potato skin.

You better tell him about the potato skin water.

Well, that, obviously, I was like, why are you fucking boiling potato skins?

What a waste.

Oh, I'm not kidding.

And he was like, no, can't you taste that real, like, which potatoey background in the gravy it's like snow bisto

but i do now appreciate so just a simple like roast chicken with all the good stuff because i think if ever you're sad obviously not if you're a vegetarian but for me if i'm sad or things are rubbish like just that home comfort yeah a proper roast roast chicken and my mum is a vegetarian so that's all we ever grew up she would that's the only thing she would cook is chicken she would like anything else so i again me and my brother didn't eat steak until we we went to other people's home.

We were like, what's this?

This is amazing.

So yeah, roast chicken, just done really well.

And I have the leg.

Thank you.

Yeah.

You like the leg?

I like that always.

Since a child.

Now still.

Me too.

That was always...

It felt more grown up.

I don't know why I'd be like, I'll have to.

Can I have the leg, please?

Ben's argument, my husband's argument, is that you should have the chicken breast because the leg will be nicer cold.

So he's like, you get your chicken breast when that, because actually that will be quite dry.

So you have it warm when it's out of the oven and then have that be your lovely chicken roast and then the leg will be all lovely and cold and you can have that with like cold meat and chutney and cheese but I'm still like no give me the leg.

I've got no time for that chicken.

I know in a sandwich yes

I think when you're a kid the chicken leg appeals to you because that's how that's what cartoon characters are in.

Yeah, true.

Same here now.

Yeah yeah yeah.

Yeah.

I was roasting chickens during lockdown against another lockdown thing I started doing, roasting chickens, eating the chicken, but it's just me and my girlfriend.

So we would kind of like, we'd eat most of it, but all a bit of carcass left with some like meat on it.

There's a lot of foxes around where we lived.

So I'd always want to make sure putting it out for the foxes.

Got bag it up, double bag.

No, I wanted them to have it.

Oh, you wanted them?

Okay.

I was like, oh, I don't want to just chuck away this meat.

You should be making a stock, mate.

So you were attracting foxes to where you used to live with chicken.

Well, we were told explicitly not to by the people here.

It's kind of weird, weird that, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They would say, don't leave any food out.

I wonder why you moved out in a hurry.

They would say, don't leave any food out for the animals.

So I was like, I've got to find a way around this.

So there was a very good blind spot you could find behind one of the buildings where you could have, but you had to climb up this bank and then you'd leave it in every single one.

You are sounding like a murderer now.

Yeah, yeah.

You knew where the blind spot was.

So I'd like walk up there and I'd put the carcass in the head and then that'd be great.

And then that'd be great.

That'd be great because everyone wins.

I'm not with him on this.

I want you to know

sugar, yes, but

foxes eat it.

And I feel like a good guy.

You know you don't win.

Well, I don't know.

Because you've just described the saddest thing I've ever heard.

Well, it gets sadder.

I really didn't win the last time I did it because it was raining, but I was still like, I've just got to put it out there.

And I was walking up the bank and I had this tray of like all chicken and grease.

And then I just slipped and I fell down the bank and all the grease went all over me.

and the chicken carcass and I was just laying there at the bottom of the bank just covered in grease and oil and chicken.

How have you never told me this?

It hasn't come up before.

And I knew that you wouldn't approve of it.

I mean, it hasn't come up before.

I thought that you would text me if that happens.

I knew you wouldn't approve of me leaving the chicken out for the foxes.

Look, because foxes are fucking awful.

Yeah, so I didn't tell you about that.

But this had just come up.

But I thought, we've had most chicken on the podcast before.

We talked about,

I thought, I've used up all my other most chicken

little facts and anecdotes.

It's time for the bank grease.

I haven't mentioned that I once felt that.

Let me tell you, James, none of your other chicken facts were any good.

You come out with that first.

You lead with the falling down the slope with the cover covered in a chicken grease and carcass.

That isn't a story.

That is an ancient Greek myth

of the man who carried the chicken carcass and then one day he slipped down and it covered himself in grease and the gods laughed at him.

Yeah, it's only missing some grain

and a bushel.

Wow.

I hate foxes, man.

Can I just say, look, I don't do this, but I have someone who likes cooking that I've now discovered chicken stock that you boil the carcass and make a stock with it.

And that is incredible.

You You can add that to anything, it improves all things, including homemade pasta sauce, which I now can make.

I should have done that.

Yeah, make chicken stock.

Yeah, I'm not the good guy at that story.

Why did you want the foxes to like the foxes?

I like them.

I think they're nice.

I think I like them.

I don't mind them.

I don't hate them.

During lockdown, it went mad on our street.

The foxes were just out and about

ripping the bins up with our neighbours because they leave the bin hanging out of the top.

Oh, no.

Ripping that open.

Probably some idiot left a chicken carcass in a hedge.

It'd be a missing me not to bring this up.

The listeners will be annoyed if we don't address it.

Ed hates Yorkshire puddings.

Yes, I know that.

But you know what you said?

Yeah.

A small Yorkshire pudding.

Yeah, a small one.

I'm not one of these like make it a bowl people.

Like it's moderation.

The roast, I'm not like you, you want, it's going to be filling, yes, but you don't want to be, I don't want to be stuffed.

I don't want to be like, oh God, I feel sick.

That's not enjoyable.

So a small one that's like good, crunchy, bit soft in the middle, a little bit gravy, just one.

I don't see I mind that less because what's my main issue with the Yorkshire puddings, James?

Takes up too much real estate on the plate.

Yes, yes.

I've heard you said that.

And I remember thinking at the time, not necessarily.

For me, your plate's full of your roast and then the Yorkshire's just a little, a cherry on the cake.

It's just plopping over there.

It's not taking up any real estate.

Plop it on.

It's just over, probably between the potatoes and the carrots.

It's getting a little bit of gravy, not too much, so it's soggy, but nothing is displaced.

It is not displacing people.

I'm happy with that.

I'm happy to roll with that.

A little one.

Yeah.

I think because my mum used to make them in like the cupcake thing.

So then you're not making a massive one yes my mum couldn't make a massive one she did make the ready-made ones you know came in the packing

yeah they're

so good not the not the pre-made oh right the powder

so you get a bit more feeling like you're cooking

you'd feel good i'd have met an aunt bessie yeah

i've never met an aunt bessie in real life

i guess it's died out since since the company right no one names their babies bessie now in case they become aunties yeah

also the tray flipped flipped and bonked me in the head.

When I fell down the bank, mate.

I mean, of course it did.

Yeah.

Big metal.

It wasn't a story, it was a message

for other people.

I was so shocked by that story that I couldn't laugh at it as much as obviously I should be.

Yeah, I felt like you had to take it in.

And let me tell you, the next time he tells that story on the podcast, because he will, I'm going to scream laughing.

Yeah, I'll tell it again.

Yeah, that's going to be an old passing.

In case it doesn't get in.

Well, no, no, no.

Oh, no, you don't care.

Your listeners don't care.

They just lap up these James stories.

Give us a story.

They're like hearing it them on repeat.

Like an old-fashioned stand-up.

Just keeps doing so.

And they're like, Yeah, do that one.

Do your bit.

Trying to bring that back.

Yeah.

Tell the bit about the fence and your wife.

We should remake that film, The Aristocrats, but it's just James telling the chicken carcass story over and over again.

Yeah.

Loads of different people telling it.

Yeah.

And then the train flips up.

I box him in the head.

I'm covered in grease.

The foxes were laughing.

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Dream side dish.

Oh, do you know what?

Can I have some miso soup?

Yeah.

But again, probably made by my sister-in-law who makes, obviously, what she considers very basic Japanese cooking, but to all of us, it's like, this is so nice.

But just like really nice miso soup.

And she does it with a paste, makes it herself, but she adds in seaweed and carrots.

Really, really finely sliced.

And then whatever she has lying, like other bits lying around.

But it's just like that really good,

when you drink it, again, it's comfort, you drink it, you think, I feel better.

Yeah.

That's how I feel about really good miso soup.

This all feels like, it definitely feels, if you hadn't told us you were building up to the dessert, this is now very obvious because you've got the miso soup almost, it feels like you're cleansing

from everything that's happened before, and then you're just sort of ready for this dessert to hit.

Yeah.

Also, miso soup is one of those things that I always like, I'm thinking about deliveroo here or even going into a place and ordering like sushi and whatever and then like it's an afterthought for me I never think of it straight away and then when I think about miso soup I get quite excited that oh I could have a miso soup and it comes all double cling filmed yeah and it's still good and then it's all cloudy at the bottom you stir it and you're like this is good miso soup I didn't used to until I met my sister-in-law she'd married into our family and then when I saw how good again I was like oh I see because I'd always had that kind of slightly I don't know what we used to get here in like 90s takeaway for stuff where you were like it's like this brown warm liquid you don't really know what it is you could get powder I remember having powder

but now I feel like it's improved so much yeah so now I always order me and it's a good test of a of a restaurant doing that sort of food if their miso is good then you're like well okay everything's gonna be good but if it's like crappy miso soup I'm like oh prepare yourself guys big trend for miso and desserts at the moment oh gosh

no oh you don't I love it no I love it depends depends you've got to be have if it's like miso pannicotta

is there a raspberry coolie or something to like make me come back for the sweetness?

If it's just savoury puddings.

Yeah.

Might have been that savoury in a pudding.

It's quite a nice like.

It adds a little savoury edge, maybe like a salty edge.

Yeah.

But you need to have sweet.

You've got to have something.

Have you had the white chocolate and miso cookies from creme?

Oh.

If I was going to creme, I just wouldn't waste it on that.

Like because I'm only going to get one cookie.

I wouldn't waste that flavour.

I'd be getting the chocolate.

Next time.

Get ready for this.

Okay.

You might be about to switch agents.

Okay.

When I had COVID, my agent sent me a box of creme cookies.

Oh, well, kind, kind of shit tons.

Yeah.

Kind, but also cruel because I'd lost my sense of taste.

It didn't stop me eating them.

Yeah, yeah, sure.

You know, still get the texture of them.

Still, yeah, going for it.

But those miso white chocolate ones were the best.

Well, okay.

Well, then I will try them.

I will try them.

No, James has said it.

I will try them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, fair enough.

Sugar fiend has recommended them.

Because for me, if I saw it, I'd be sad.

You know, when you don't get the chocolatey thing in a pudding and then you see someone, I think, oh, I should have just gone for a fucking brownie.

What am I thinking?

Yeah.

What am I thinking that I wanted a crumble?

I wanted a brownie.

I went mad on creme in lockdown.

And I saw

they were doing delivery.

They put on their Instagram.

We would do delivery now.

I was like, great.

So I pre-ordered them for delivery.

And what I didn't realize is the delivery was just someone biking them over.

It was like a 25 quid delivery.

Oh, that's what happened with meal.

They were doing the same.

They were like delivery.

And I literally put everything in.

I was like, yeah, bread and the chocolate tart with salt and the apple chasson and the fan of shock and then they were like 20 pound delivery and I had to delete it all because I was like I can't justify that and that's where we part ways yeah

yeah Ed's already in yeah

52 pots of cookies yeah it's too much and then you can't you can't enjoy it because you're thinking that's one pound fifty yeah that's five pounds I think Ed enjoys it even more in that situation

I think he goes I spent this money and that means fully enjoy the holy sit there like a kid

sit in the bath and eat them and if I don't enjoy it then it's ruined so you've got this miso soup.

Miso soup is not going to go anywhere near.

I'm very, very wary and protective of the puddings and when people fuck around with them.

And it has to be worth it and it has to be okay.

Like, don't just come in there and start dicking around for the sake of, oh, I'm doing this to be new.

Yeah.

And a lot of restaurants do that.

And then it's like,

it's so funny to go out for like romantic meal and like, oh, this food's amazing.

They get to pudding.

And I'm so grumpy because I'm like, they don't care about puddings.

And I just feel affronted.

Yeah.

And then, yeah, he's like, it was really expensive, and it's Michelin style.

And I'm like, well, so what?

I need to go and get a Panachock now.

Yeah.

Even from Prep.

I need to go and get a Prep Panashock just to get the sugar in that I didn't get.

Yeah.

During the lockdown, James would leave his Miso soup remains out for the crow.

I'd go to the top of a hill to

put them on there.

Top of the highest hill to put them on a bird table.

Then you fell over, didn't you?

Yes, all the way down, broke my crown.

Your dream drink.

Oh, dream drink.

Well, this is a bit again, I don't really, I do drink alcohol, but not very much.

Like, I genuinely, genuinely am absolutely wasted after half a glass of white wine.

Absolutely.

No one believes it until they see it, and then they go, oh my god, it's true.

They always think I'm being like, oh, no, me, I can't drink.

And then I've had half a glass and I'm like trying to get on a table and start dancing and swearing.

And people go, actually, it's not funny.

They think it's going to be funny.

So I have like a non-alcoholic drink.

And I am big into elderflower okay elderflower spritz and if it comes with some shaved cucumber you know they do the big yeah they like peel a cucumber oh i'm so happy i'm so happy but a fresh mint spritz not a bit dangerous with your gas yeah you're right but it tends to be not so gassy when it's elderflower yeah do you know what i mean it doesn't seem to be quite maybe it's mixed it with the elderflower cordial and then they mix it with like a tonic or something I don't know, it doesn't seem too gassy.

I can coke.

Coke, too fizzy.

Way too fizzy.

Oh my god.

No way.

I just both

died nowhere near.

And caffeine in the past.

Well, yeah, I don't drink caffeine because it makes me hyper.

So I don't need any more.

The sugar is enough.

What would happen if you had half a glass of white wine topped up with Coke?

Fuck.

Ask Sarah Pasco because she's seen it.

And it's still dancing at two in the morning.

Yeah, it's yeah.

I just don't need that much.

Some people need it, some people don't.

And I learned that really quickly.

Social situations taught me.

And if just too bad, because then everyone will have a glass of wine and you're wasted.

So by the time you think, oh, I need to stop drinking, I'm so drunk.

And then everyone else has like five glasses and they're drunk and you're sober because you're like, I had to stop because it was so bad.

And now you're really drunk.

And I'm like, I need to go home.

You can catch up pretty quickly, surely.

No, you've gone back round.

You've gone back round.

Yeah, yeah.

I used to have, when we were in Pesco at university, I used to have one smurn off ice all night and that would see me through the entire night.

Yeah.

Would you drink it quickly or would you be nursing that all night?

I wouldn't be nursing it all night, but I wouldn't down it.

Yeah.

It's too gassy.

And I was like obsessed with dancing, so I'd be up on a podium dancing.

And then, you know,

you can't be sloshing that around.

It's too much.

So I would go, we'd get into the club and she would buy like two blue terby AKDs and I'd get my one Smurn off ice.

And then we'd go, because I went to uni with Pasco, that's what I'm talking about.

And then she'd be like, oh, I'm going to get another one.

I'd be like, no, I'm fine.

I'm fine.

So I'd dance me probably about half an hour.

I wasn't cool.

I wasn't nursing.

And then I wouldn't need another one.

Yeah.

It was wasted.

Yeah.

Cheap date.

Pasco fighting everyone in the room.

with a blue tongue with a blue tongue yeah

well no no she wouldn't have got any backup from me too busy dancing we were too busy dancing we were not fighters yeah yeah you were dancers not fighting you wouldn't you wouldn't mess with her actually that's what i think

to be fair that does sound good i think that's you know and again for me the elder flower is very good at taking away all the sugar even though it's made of cordial sure like because it's like it's refreshing and so because i'm eating so much sugar, I sometimes need something to cut through all that.

If I had a Coke, it was just more sugar.

I mean, I think, I think Elderflower Cordle is really, really sweet.

Yeah, yeah.

It's not as sweet as Coke.

Well, it depends how.

I'm not drinking it neat.

I'm not doing shots of cordial.

What levels are you putting in?

Oh, light, light levels.

Yeah, yeah.

I want it to be like a hint of elderflower.

I don't want like, oh, this is pure cordial.

Yeah, you don't want to feel it sort of more syrupy.

Yeah.

Or like when they do homemade lemonade and elderflower.

Oh, that's, I'm so excited.

Have you had a elderflower corsam press?

yes obviously it's brilliant great great absolutely one of the best one of the while since you brought causten press up well we love causten press really that's one of my things brought it up yeah similar things for a while and um the elderflower one is the yo that's an unsung hero that's what i i haven't taught i i rhobarb's my favorite caulston press everyone no i don't i i i don't mind it but i'd always go for elderflower fair enough it was because sweeter elderflower one's sweeter yeah i find the rhubarb sometimes gives you a bit of a yeah that's what i like or you like the tang a bit yeah like sour fat like tang fastics thing going on.

Yeah, I love that.

I'd love it.

That's why you like it.

I'd love a tang fastic drink.

Yeah, no, that's too tangled.

Yeah,

I like the tartness of the rhubarb caust and press, but the sweetness of the elderflower is a

full range of Courston Press is exceptional.

I like Courston Press.

Huh?

You've run out of it.

Yes, yeah.

I want to just move on to this dessert because I'm excited about it.

Pumped.

I'm trying to guess what it's going to be.

This is from a connoisseur, from someone who values dessert above all else, judges restaurants on whether their dessert is good or not.

Doesn't like salty things in the dessert, doesn't like licorice.

So we're talking a classic sweet dessert here.

Requested some Raspberry Coulee on something earlier.

Maybe it's going to be fruity.

But then said, I wish I just had a brownie earlier as an example of things that she gets.

food envy over.

So maybe it's going to be chocolatey.

I'll make a small prediction.

I think this might be an invented dessert, dessert, which we have now and again.

Like a frankenfund.

That it might just be like every chocolate bar in the world crushed up into a bowl of custard.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

It could be like a frankenfood.

And you said it was going to be complicated.

And I'm worried you're not going to let me do what I need to do.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Let's see.

Okay.

I require.

Oh, boy.

This is already like you're doing some sort of spell.

I require a pudding trolley because I have

one, two, three, four puddings.

Wow.

Now, I'm happy to talk through them.

Yeah.

And I'm happy for you to understand why all four are required.

Okay.

Yes.

Because it's a dream restaurant.

Yes.

And so

it was impossible for me to choose one pudding because as a pudding connoisseur, it depends on your mood.

Am I feeling chockty?

Am I feeling fruity?

Am I feeling like custody creamy?

So that's an interesting point.

So you're saying it's a dream restaurant.

Yeah.

And one pudding is not your dream.

In many ways, that's your nightmare.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yes.

You know, I'll go with that logic.

Yeah.

One pudding would be, yeah, I'd be like, oh, well, whose dream is this?

It's not mine.

Yeah, sure.

This is Ed's dream.

Let's hear him.

Okay.

I'm going to start with the most recent one I had.

Okay, because it's fresh in my memory.

So it's a good place to start.

So we recently went to Copenhagen and we went to a restaurant called Amass, which is, I think, has a Misslin style set.

Anyway, it's very, very partial.

I've not been there, but I've heard of it.

You might have heard of it.

Yeah, yeah.

We only went because my husband researches these things.

I was like, we've got to go to Amass.

But you check the website to see if they had puddings.

They didn't even have information because that kind of restaurant, it was like, you're just going to get 10 courses of things.

But I trusted him.

And we had to drive very far out of Copenhagen to an industrial estate and go somewhere which I felt immediately a bit unsafe.

I was like, not quite sure where we are.

Left my children in a hotel with my mum, a bit worried.

And then it was all like concrete blocks.

That's the vibe they're doing at the moment.

Anyway, it was incredible, incredible.

The food was incredible.

But the pudding, they gave two puddings.

One of the first puddings was, I'll describe it to you, a marigold custard with wild Swedish blueberries, bee pollen and lavender honey.

It was very small, small pot went into my small pot, with this custard, then the blueberries on top.

I fucking hell, I can't tell.

I can't.

The pollen, the honey.

You dipped into it.

First of all, I'm a bit disappointed.

I see it.

It's quite small.

There's no chocolate.

I'm okay.

Oh, fuck, fuck, fuck.

How's this going to go?

And then I'm a bit into it.

It was like, and I know this sounds awful.

I sound like Jilly Gordon on the food show many years ago.

It was like summer.

Like someone had made summer

into a pudding and put it in your mouth.

Like the blueberries were the most blueberry blueberry I've ever tasted.

The lavender honey was so subtle.

The pollen just a little bit crunch.

And then marigold custard.

And the marigold's grown outside this industrial, like they grow all the food there.

So it's like light and custardy and creamy, but also the blueberry, but also that sweet, like really good honey.

Like this is not your essential waitrose, sugar syrup.

and it was incredible and it was very small.

This is my justification with these puddings.

They're all not huge.

So that would be my first pitch.

That sounds great.

Sounds amazing.

Also, if you're ever in Copenhagen again, I have to recommend this place to you because it is the best cheesecake

I've ever had.

I wish I'd known.

I went with Henry Whitticomb, who you will know.

Yeah.

And he said to me, he wasn't bothered because cheesecake, he said, I had a really, my mum used to make this really good one when we were kids, the strawberry one, nothing's ever been as good.

He got the strawberry one at this place, and he looked at me really seriously and he went, This is what I've been chasing

my whole life.

That's my kind of person, yes, chasing that pudding.

I'm very happy about it.

It's called Burtell's Salon.

Oh, okay.

Just incredible.

Are you ready for next pudding?

Yeah, yeah, of course.

I'm sorry, I feel like I'm being such a fucking geek about puddings.

We went to a place called The Sportsman, which is like a gastro pub, but it's Kent, is it?

Yeah, but it, um, and they did, again, quite small, a Brambly apple souffle with salted caramel ice cream yep yep yep and it was green and it came out and they put the ice cream on top so it melted when you dug it in it tasted of bonfires and autumn wow so I've got summer and autumn there oh i like this i like where this is going and there's four of these yeah you know she's absolutely bullshitted her way into getting four puddings there's nothing this is working this is this is the four seasons of puddings where you just

put those pick those two puddings and then went i know the way i can get around this now This is great.

Winter and spring.

How am I going to fucking crowbart that?

One of us will be cold.

This is fucking great.

They say, grief, you have to go through all the seasons to maybe feel it.

And that's, this is, this is what's happening.

I actually haven't done it that well for the rest of them.

Sorry, I realised.

It was so delicious.

Dessert souffle is absolutely.

And that brandy apple.

I'd never had apple souffle.

So when that came up, I was like, oh, my God.

I still have a problem with souffle.

And all I can really taste is the background of egg.

Yes, in bad souffle.

I agree with you, but I have to tell you, like, this was the best souffle I've ever had.

I had an amazing souffle at the Hannon Flowers, a blackberry souffle that was not eggy.

So I'm well on board with this.

I think if you've done well and it's got a good fruit, and it's normally not apple, because apple's quite hard to capture.

Like, it's quite, you know, you don't, it doesn't, we don't have apple jam.

Like, you do, but you know what I mean?

Like, it's not something you really get that sense of.

And it was this green, light green souffle.

I can still see it.

With this brown salty caramel, like melty in the middle.

And you know, we just stopped talking, we just didn't speak.

Yeah.

And afterwards, we still didn't speak we were just silent like for ages like my gosh what was that i haven't managed to make the seasons that would have been sensible i'll help you well that's got ice cream in so maybe that's autumn and winter okay next is my pavlova because i make fucking amazing pavlova what season were you born in

summer

i know it's knowing

i make a really good pavlova because i love pavlova so i perfected the recipe of pavlova and i just like good pavlova cream bit of icing sugar in that cream, just make chantilly cream, then raspberries, a little bit maybe if you feel like adding some passion fruit, tiny bit of passion fruit, mint leaves, that's all you need.

It's very simple, very simple.

White, isn't it?

Looks like snow.

Send the snowy man if you can if you feel like it.

Yeah, I haven't thought, that would have been really clever.

I've just thought about puddings I liked.

I'm sorry.

Yeah.

Oh, I know.

Yeah.

That's coming across.

Yeah.

But you have to make, if you mix, you have to mix.

Do you know this about Pavlova?

You have to mix cornflour and vinegar.

No, I didn't know.

Really?

You know, right.

So you know, you get dry pavlova, like the meringue, but it's really dry.

Yeah.

And they sometimes sell them like otelengi, but you bite them and you're like, this is so dry and powdery.

That's just meringue.

But to make pavlova, to get the squidgy bit, you add, I'm sure someone will correct me, but this is how I make it, cornflower and vinegar and make a paste.

And then you very carefully add that to your egg whites.

And that's how you get that chewy bit in the middle.

Right.

Odd.

Genuine vinegar.

I'm making chewy.

I'm making this big.

It's crusty here, and then that is all chewy.

Yeah, yeah.

All soft.

Absolutely.

You can't see it, but it's a big chunk.

Yeah, yeah, it's a big chunk, as it should be.

Yeah.

No powdery meringues, please.

No, I hate those.

And people who go, oh, just buy a ready-made meringue.

What?

Yeah, what are you talking about?

It's so, it's easy.

It's easy to make a Pavlova.

It's simple, it's quick, and it impresses everyone.

It's a good one to turn up with.

Everyone's like, wow, you made a Pavlova.

There's a restaurant, I don't know if it's still there, a cafe in Paris called Mummy Gatto, which was run by, I think, a Japanese woman who'd perfected French patisserie.

And they used to make a raspberry and pistachio frangipan, which was just,

oh yeah.

They did a pear and chocolate one and a raspberry and pistachio and they cooked them fresh every day and we lived opposite it and I went there a lot.

I went there every day and every day.

Almost every day, yeah.

To get a hot choc and get my pan chocolate from around the corner.

Pan and chocolate and a hot chocolate.

Yeah, yeah.

Short for choice in Paris for panchock.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So that is, it's just frangipan.

I just, I just think it's underrated.

It's really delicious.

That with a bit vanilla ice cream, they're winter.

And I also want...

There's ice cream on about three of these things

i also want a really good hot chocolate from an italian hot chocolate okay like one you stand your spoon up in yeah one that is basically melted

because then when i went to italy for the first time after i left school i went into railing and i went to italy and i discovered and i was like having drunk cabwey's water hot chocolate all my life i was like what what is going on and now i'm just searching for the hot chocolate that's all i keep going for

i've got a good one at the moment from a brand called like Pump Street or something like that.

Yeah, Pump Street chocolate.

Yeah, that's about that.

That's a massive brand for a gassy person.

Won't take it to Pump Street, please.

Yeah.

I try and I've kept it hidden.

Then I also have a request for like petifors after this, but I know it might not be accepted.

Absolutely.

I love it whenever I've been at a fancy restaurant and I'm having the desserts.

And in the back of my head, I'm like if they don't bring out petifors yeah they can go themselves yeah it's amazing because you think i can take more sugar yeah they're gonna bring them out yeah

well then i'd like the homemade rollos from hawksmoor have you had them oh wow no but they are fantastic so good yeah they're like big flat rollos and they put a little bit of salt on top and normally if you eat them you feel sick yeah but this is dream restaurant so i'm not going to feel sick after all those puddings and i can then have a rollo because every time i eat one i think damn it this is too much after the steak yeah i feel sick but dream restaurant to have four of those by myself they're like i don't know how they do it it's like it's like what you want a rollo to be but a rollo isn't we talk about this moment a lot on the podcast and i think i might have mentioned that it was with this but that first moment where you're in a restaurant and you realize you're an adult and you're paying for it so you can just order something again make and i was with some friends and i was like

it was more of those rollos please

brilliant that's how i feel about all puddings because obviously my whole life was like no you can't have another one yeah no that's enough no carry out stop stop adding ice cream to the ice cream factory enough oh man ice cream factory dangerous stuff so dangerous oh i won an ice cream factory in competition once but at what cost i was i was i was in the it wasn't an official competition

well i was just me and my friend sean yeah at catman pizza hut

so homemade rollos from hawksmore and then some pier hermie macarons oh hello yeah i think that was gonna be it and then yeah good macarons they're the best macarons passion fruit and chocolate particularly

they've got a branch here now and they bring them over in the morning on the Eurostar.

Yeah, that's what I heard.

That's what they told me in the shop.

Wow.

My wife lived in Paris for a bit as well, so whenever I'd go and visit, it was just like Pierre Ma, just straight down the whole.

Oh, yeah, I'm saying it wrong.

I'll let Pierre Ma.

Sorry, I'm saying Pierre Hermie because

my mom's from Essex.

Panachocana, Pierre Hermie, please.

Yeah, toe, toe macarons.

Right, I'm gonna read your menu batch now, see how you feel about it.

Okay, water, still water from a tap, poplars or bread.

You want panachock a la for meal, starter, konamiyaki from a saka.

Main course, roast chicken cooked by your husband, roast potatoes, honey roast carrots, short ship hood, gravy, mum's boiled carrots and broccoli.

Side dish, miso soup made by your sister-in-law.

Drink, elderflower spritz with peeled cucumber and mint.

Dessert.

Marigold custard, blueberries, pollen and honey from Amas in Copenhagen.

Brambly apple souffle, salted caramel and ice cream from The Sportsman.

Your own homemade pavlova.

raspberry and pistachio Fanjapan from Mami Gateau in Paris.

You would like an Italian hot chocolate as well, and petit fours of the homemade Rolos from Hawksmoor and the Pierre Hermé macarons.

I'm so ashamed.

I have never been prouder of a guest.

I don't think you need to be ashamed.

Extremely proud of you.

That dessert course

sounds like

a description on a script of a French Regency party.

Oh, perfect.

That's my dream.

Medkley.

Your dessert course is, with all due respect, the length of most people's full menus.

Yeah, correct.

And you see what I was like, that's how you feel about it.

You've just got to get through some other stuff to get to the dessert.

Yeah, but you said that, and that's bullshit because the rest of it is massive as well.

Because

the roast chicken, you've got all the roast chicken and sides, plus another side.

But it's dream restaurant.

I would have, no, no, I would have thought, I did think, should I just do a sandwich?

So just that you don't need to justify the menu.

What is Tammy and Tammy had through that roast dinner is the Panachala she had earlier.

So don't worry.

Thank you very much for coming to the dream restaurant, Carrie Add.

Thank you so much for everyone.

Thank you, Carrie Ad.

You're my hero.

What a wonderful episode.

Yes, very, very nice.

Good for you, an Acaster Special, I'd say.

Oh, I feel very happy at the end of that.

I would have happily just skipped from Panachala all the way to dessert and had a lovely time listening to it.

I mean, so many shout-outs.

Even when we were talking about some of the savories, we ended up on tangents into dessert.

Yes, we did.

And look, sometimes that's not my sort of thing.

But the desserts that Carrie had picked all sound is so delicious that you can't really argue with it.

It's not a Magliano situation.

Sure, sure.

Or a Rosie Jones situation where it was just loads of bad stuff.

Yeah, and, you know, almost there was some trolling going on in those episodes.

I would say that's aimed towards you.

Yes, yes.

I don't think Carrie Ed was trying to do that at all.

No,

the place she went to, just emotionally, when she was talking about those desserts, especially that first one, I thought she was going to take off.

Yeah, yeah, it was very emotional.

I nearly shed a tear for the taste of summer.

You should get Carrie Ed's new book, You Are Not Alone.

Not alone.

It's available now.

Also, listen to The Griefcast, of course.

Also, listen to The Griefcast, a wonderful podcast talking to special guests about grief and their experiences with grief.

An important podcast.

An important podcast.

This one.

This is very important.

Oh, yes.

Apologies.

Don't do yourself down, James.

And she did not say Andouillette, of course.

Thank you for not saying Andouiette.

Carriad,

I mean, look, unless they make a dessert version of that.

Yeah.

Can't go nowhere near it.

Yeah.

Maybe they will one day.

Maybe one day they will feed whatever animal it is, I'm guessing a pig, loads of loads of chocolate.

then get its chocolatey intestines and put it into a sausage.

And would you eat that?

Yes.

Thank you very much for listening.

We will see you sometime soon.

Bye-bye.

Bye.

Popsicles, sprinklers, a cool breeze.

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Hello, I'm Carrie Add.

I'm Sarah.

And we are the Weirdos Book Club Podcast.

We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival.

The date is Thursday, 11th 11th of September.

The time is 7pm, and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies.

Tickets from kingsplace.co.uk.

Single ladies is coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September.

At the London Podcast Festival.

The rumours are true.

Saturday, the 13th of September.

At King's Place.

Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet.