Ep 141: Asma Khan

Hello, it's Ed Gamble here from the Off Menu Podcast.

Hello, it's James A.

Caster here from the Off Menu Podcast.

And before the episode starts, we'd like to talk to you about All Our Relations, a non-profit co-founded by your friend of mine, comedian Jen Brister, and Georgia Takax.

Yes, All Our Relations was originally started to support 15 families in Gaza when the genocide started, but now supports 21 families and funds several mutual aid projects, including two seven-day food kitchens and two mobile food parcel delivery schemes, as well, feeding hundreds of families in Gaza every single day.

They've created an absolutely amazing thing.

And we feel like, you know, it's the off-menu podcast.

We talk about food and we are very lucky to eat wonderful food and have access to absolutely brilliant food all of the time.

And I think we need to talk about people who have access to no food, James.

Absolutely.

So if people would like to donate, please go to allourrelations.co.uk or look at the links in Jen Brister's bio on Instagram.

Every penny raised go to supporting people in Gaza.

Thank you so much and enjoy the episode.

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Welcome to the Off-Menu podcast, taking the bacon of humor, frying it in the oil of the internet, and then removing the rind of bad vibes.

Hello, James.

Oh, you take your rind off the bacon, do you?

Well, if it's that horrible chewy rind of good bacon, when there's like a really hard bit of rind, you do need to take that off.

But I like the soft fat, of course.

Oh, I like the crispy.

Crispy rind, mate.

I love the crispy rind, yeah.

I love the crispy rind, very nice, but sometimes you get that little gelatinous bit around the outside that's impossible to crisp up and impossible to eat because it's too chewy.

That's what we don't have here.

We don't have chewy rind.

No chewy rinds here.

This is the off-menu podcast with Ed Gamble and James A.

Caster.

Quite often we do have chewy rinds, but Benito edits them out, doesn't he?

Yeah, and he'd chews them himself on his own in a little room.

He'd chews them all up.

And Texas going, oh, I'm chewing this bit of rind.

Chewing the rind.

And we go, right, block this number as well.

And we block a different number from him every single week.

He's got a bucket full of burner phones, that boy.

Yep.

This is the off-menu podcast.

We are inviting a guest into our dream restaurant and asking them their favorite ss.

Their favourite what?

My brain stopped.

well I know that you know it's only theoretical that you've been cast as the snake in the live action remake of Robin Hood but it's nice to know you're going into it

but I might still do it yes I think I'm proven that I can do it favourite ever starter main course dessert side of shand drink not in that order and this week our guest is Asma Khan

Asma Khan uh wonderful chef we always love having chefs on don't we James love having chefs on feel very lucky boys whenever we have a chef on always a bit nervous when we have a restaurateur in as well though Yes,

because we might mention restaurants we like and maybe they'll be back.

Well no I just mean we've run the dream restaurant and the asthma's going to be able to see that we don't really know.

No I hadn't even thought about that.

Great.

Luckily we've built in a format point that means we can kick asthma out of

if she mentions a secret ingredient so then we can get off the hook easier.

Yes.

An ingredient which we don't like.

Or the listeners don't like, depending on who suggested it.

And this week, the secret ingredient is supermarket market sushi.

Supermarket sushi.

Supermarket sushi.

Sushi?

Suzi eats supermarket sushi in the shard.

Yep, as everyone knows.

JP McMunnam.

I guess maybe McNamara is the full name.

This is just a Twitter handle.

McMannamon.

Oh, yeah.

Well, it's JP McMun on Twitter.

And JP has suggested,

which I agree.

I agree too.

Not sure it'll come up in the episode.

I think we might be safe with this one.

But supermarket sushi, awful, fridge-cold, rock-hard rice.

No flavor.

I believe legally they're not even allowed to sell raw fish, so it's always cooked fish quite often.

The one that's like mackerel or whatever.

Yeah.

That's the worst.

The little, the brown fish that's like cooked on the top of the rice in Mars and Spencer.

That.

For me, it's the tuna roll, the cooked tuna, the tinned tuna roll.

Yeah, really bad stuff.

Probably bowl of a bit of cucumber if you're lucky in there.

Oh, you need the soy sauce to moisten up the rice.

Yeah.

You know, not super, yeah, all supermarket sushi, you know, I feel like we're gunning for M ⁇ S here, but they do have a specific thing with that tuna one, which is yeah, yeah, yeah, it is bad.

But also, for balance, Marks and Spencer's has revolutionized the service station games.

So, yeah, hey, look, I'm not complaining about it.

I just worry that I'm going to be banned from there.

And I'm currently doing my UK tour electric.

And every day I'm having the cut-up apple with peanut butter dip.

Well, you deserve it then because you're a Granny Smith lover and you know how it feels.

Only in that context, only in the peanut butter context.

I love Marks and Spencer's Cut Up Granny Smith with peanut butter dip and also the prawns you can dip in the cocktail sauce.

Yes.

Yeah.

That is

good.

I like that.

Every day on tour.

Yeah, yeah.

Tickets available edgamble.co.uk.

Very nicely done this week.

Mercy.

Also, people can pre-order my book, James Acaster's Guide to Quitting Social Media, Being the Best You You Can Be.

and curing yourself of loneliness, volume one.

They can do that.

Yeah.

James.

James's struggling to remember the title of his own book.

It's too long.

He did a really long title for a laugh, and now you know,

worried about that.

Also, Asma's got a wonderful book out.

Yes, she does.

Before we even speak to her, we're going to mention this book because we've got it sitting here, and it looks incredible.

It's called Amu, Indian Home Cooking to Nourish Your Soul, Asma Khan of Darjeeling Express, which is her wonderful restaurant.

And I cannot wait to make some of this stuff slash read this book when I'm sat in the kitchen and ordering a deliveroo.

But it looks beautiful.

Yeah, I think there's a big story behind it of Asma's mother, but we'll ask her about it.

We're looking through it.

Every single recipe sounds delicious.

Oh, man.

All the pictures of the food as well make my mouth water.

So hungry.

And there's a big, also, you know, there's a huge personal story behind it and a very universal story all the way through that people can relate to.

So not just a cookbook in my eyes.

There's even more to it.

Oh, I can't wait.

Right.

So without further ado, this is the off-menu menu of Asthma Khan.

Welcome, Asthma, to the Dream Restaurant.

Thank you.

I'm very excited.

Welcome, Asthma Khan, to the Dream Restaurant.

We've been expecting you for some time.

Here he is.

Pretty good?

Yeah, that was good.

That was the genie entrance there, actually.

I worked that one out.

Yeah, yeah.

You knew which one was the genie immediately, right?

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah.

Which greeting did you prefer out of me and Ed there?

Yours.

Yeah, thank you.

Yeah, yeah.

It's very dramatic.

It was dramatic.

It was very

ceremonial, would you say?

I always worry, though, now, now we're in a sort of pandemic era of the genie entrance being quite spit-based

when we're in the room with people.

Yeah, I can't believe people used to blow out candles on the cake and then everyone eat it.

Because now we don't do all of this in the restaurant before.

We used to always have candles and singing and everyone's singing.

And now we're terrified.

No candles at all.

What happens if there's there's people in the restaurant and they start singing or they start playing out candles?

They do.

Do you shut it down?

I'm very, very mean.

I have a very mean streak to me.

I come back and say, we are still in the pandemic.

Although we have an absolute idiot running the country, so you no longer can say that after Thursday, that we're still in a pandemic because all rules are being removed.

But yeah.

Yeah, you can, you know, it's your restaurant, your rules, right?

You can still ban happy birthday.

No, no, we are banning happy birthday for not just the candle reasons, but that's that's a long story and I won't bore you.

I don't know.

I think we want to hear that.

No, because the thing is that people bring in one cake and then we have to give them cutlery and cut and if anyone has an allergy, it's all very stressful.

There's a legal side of me which I hate.

And this is a bit that comes in of what if they have a nut allergy, it's in the cake, it's not on the food because we've got everything marked.

Also, I mean, just on a on a it hits the bottom bottom line because no one has dessert and someone gets some cheapo cake from somewhere and they all have cake and you know we've got to wash all those plates and cut and I feel bad taking you know cake age as it's called sounds really weird thing to do but you know some restaurants do I've lost the argument won the argument with my GM and my accountant on this one so yeah we don't do cake for lots of reasons I'm on your side with that yeah I love that they bring their own cake to a restaurant

it's it's I mean it's it's awkward you know and it's awkward to say no to people and people can get very emotional but it's it's a hard one and I think a lot of restaurants do struggle with this because you don't want to come across as mean.

People have chosen to come to your place to celebrate a birthday.

And then they whip out this two-pound cake, which 18 people are going to have slices of.

And you think, ooh, this is like a tough one.

Have you thought about keeping some Colin the Caterpillars in the kitchen just and then real big markup, like a wine markup?

Yeah, we could do that.

That would really make us popular.

60 quid Colin.

Yeah.

Do your own version of Colin the Caterpillar.

I think I would love.

That's That's still my favorite cake.

The first time I saw it, I thought it was just so incredible.

And for, you know, I grew up in India where we don't get cakes with shapes and things like that.

You got a very basic cake and you should be grateful you got a cake.

And I just blew my mind, you know, I said you could get a shape cake for nothing.

You could buy a universe.

It was on your birthday.

You could get a caterpillar.

Yeah.

I just loved it.

It almost tastes better when it's not your birthday, a calling the caterpillar cake.

Just go and buy a colin the caterpillar.

I'm not that brave.

No?

I've thought about it.

I've thought about buying a colin the Caterpillar cake for no reason.

And then I'm like, be brave, be brave.

Life is too short.

Yeah.

I did that as a teenager.

I'm not surprised you did it.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I didn't buy a Colin the Caterpillar cake.

MNS had bought out these limited edition Shrek cakes that were the size of like a face.

And it was, I've just realized what I've said and that you're going to try and team me up for an accent, but I'm not going to do the Shrek accent in front of Asma.

James does a really good Shrek account.

Now you have to do it.

You raised it.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I knew that he was going to do it.

As soon as I said Shrek, could you be Shrek finding out that you've got your own cake?

He's gone so shy.

Well, yeah.

Shy?

Can I please?

Because people can't see his face, he's also turned quite red.

Yeah, yeah, which isn't good for a Shrek impression.

It ought to be as green as possible.

Oh!

Oh,

I can't believe

Mark Suspension's done me a cake.

It looks like my face.

Don't get it.

Don't get handed slides in this cake.

It's a thick fondant.

The fondant is so thick.

And

they've got jam and cream in the middle and two layers of sponge.

And that was what I ate.

Yeah.

And did you, was it nice?

Yeah, really nice.

I ate the whole thing.

And you live to tell the tale too.

I live to tell the tale and do an impression of Shrek.

But like, yeah, it was, it was,

I had been planning it for quite a while.

Yeah.

I'd seen it in Mark Suspensor's and I thought, man, I'd love to eat that whole thing.

And then my brain went, you can't eat a whole cake.

That's illegal.

You're not allowed to eat a whole cake.

And then as the days went on, I thought, actually,

you know, 15, that's the age where you start to think for yourself a bit more.

And I was like, I think I can eat a whole cake.

So good for you.

I bought it and ate a whole Shrek face.

So growing up in India, you say there was no shaped cakes.

Just round or square?

Were they the options?

Usually just square.

Just square.

Just Just square.

And we didn't have a huge cake culture, you know, but birthday cakes was a big thing.

So like we don't have cakes in our wedding.

I think there's no space.

People are dying in any case after seven days of dancing and singing.

But

I have this obsession with cakes.

And I asked my mother very gently when I was getting married that could I have a, what I then called the English style.

you know, three-layered cake.

And she passed out.

She said, like,

no way.

So if I get married again, it's just for that opportunity to cut the cake.

And it is something that you see when you grow up.

It's very hard for you all because of the age that everyone is around this table.

There was a time when there was no internet, you didn't see images.

And I grew up in a socialist

Bengal where all Hollywood films were banned.

So we didn't get to see a lot of films as well.

So if you wanted to see images or pictures, you went to the library and you looked at an encyclopedia.

There was no television at all.

You had television for two hours in black and white.

So it was that time that you imagined how amazing these cakes were.

It didn't taste as great as it looks.

I have to admit.

A bit disappointing, my first experience of fancy cakes in this country.

But then, you know, that was 1990s.

Things have improved a lot.

The first time you saw a Colin and Caterpillar was in black and white in an encyclopedia.

Almost, almost, yes.

Let's talk about your wonderful book that's come out, Amu.

Is that, have I pronounced that wrong?

Yes, you pronounced it correctly.

It looks beautiful as well, like the cover and stuff, but you can't show it to people.

It's a very personal book.

I think I always had this book in me.

I wanted to write about a very special relationship.

She taught me how to cook, but also she was someone who I learned a lot from.

I only figured this out once I left.

And I was eating Colin the Caterpillar Cake in this country.

I realized how much she had actually really taught me how to think, you know, the the whole idea of equality deeply entrenched in her.

And she was very progressive for the kind of person she was.

You know, she didn't go to college.

She came from a royal family.

She set up a food business.

And she was fiercely, you know, very committed to equality.

People who had, you know, emotional problems, women who were abandoned by...

So those who...

Society was sidelining, women who were abandoned by the husband, of course the shame is theirs because the husband walked off.

Remember, I was so scared.

She used to go into very difficult slums and tell everybody, she works for me from tomorrow.

I don't want any man to walk in there.

And she should tell her, you don't have to sell yourself or your daughters.

You come and you work for me.

And the next morning, we used to hate Amu at that point because there were like four snotty kids sitting outside.

But that was remarkable.

And she did it in such a kind of casual way.

No one would dare tell her that what she was doing was wrong.

And she was unafraid to speak up.

And I think, although she's never admitted it, I mean I can say it now, she was uncelebrated too.

She's one of five daughters.

She was the middle daughter.

And she understands that what it is not to be wanted.

And the pressure of, you know, you know, having another son and I was not the son, she spent her entire life trying to be very fair to me.

and my brother.

And I realized that, you know, if all you needed was someone to tell you you're equal.

And it was harder for her because Indian society is very shallow.

My sister, very, very beautiful, still looks 10 years younger than me, looks like a model, and very fair-skinned, very slim, long hair.

And the comparisons were brutal.

So not only was I not a boy, I...

didn't look pretty.

I was fat.

I was dark.

It was constantly being told all of this.

And my mother was just incredible.

She never made either of us feel different.

She raised us to understand that we're equal.

And I learned this very young.

This is why this book is so important.

Because you understand the equality and food is a great leveler.

She cooked for us.

She sat down and fed us and made us feel we were equal.

And she made me feel very powerful.

She always said, you will change the world.

I know it.

I, in my lifetime, I want to see.

How could I not write a book to her?

Because she taught me how to live.

It's amazing.

Yeah, it's absolutely incredible.

I feel a bit silly asking popped ons or bread veggies

and

still a sparkling water after that.

Are there any highlights or recipes in here that mean the most to you that you're most excited to put in the book?

I think the biryani.

And the thing is that, you know, the biryani is a very complicated, usually for large numbers.

For those who've come to my supper club will know, like, you know, it's a massive pot of biryani that is opened.

This is a biryani my mother made, usually when I failed in maths.

Or I got into trouble or I bunk school and I was caught.

My mother would make this biryani and I knew why.

It was to tell me it was okay.

So when my brother lost a cricket match or when I failed in usually maths, sometimes science papers, and I would send this report home that, you know, I'm a really stupid child, she would do this kind of thing.

And the biryani is that, I love that.

So the biryani is one of the dishes that

I've got in there.

And it's very doable and it's for a small house, sort of six people.

And you, you can eat it in one go.

Yeah.

The man who eats the shred cake in one go.

You can eat that biryani for six in one sitting.

Mold that biryani into the shape of an ogre, and I'll eat it.

Yeah, James can't eat anything that's not Shrek themed and for one.

It can be made Shrek thing.

I'm sure that's very easy to do.

So you were saying just before we started recording that your menu that you're going to choose today is not necessarily going to come from the book.

Yeah, because that would be just plugging the book.

The book is fabulous.

You should just go and get it for all the reasons, right reasons.

But as I have the two of you, I thought it would be fun to to also uh i just think that there is this kind of huge uh anger with british people in india we hate the british they stayed too long yes and uh far far far too long yes and they they did some good stuff but i've always

i've never been i just want to make it clear i've not stayed too long i've never had the opportunity you can go now as long as you stay for a short time it's fine yeah i won't stay

but the thing is that there's the fabulous impact of the british staying in india which was the food which was the Anglo-Indian food, which a lot of people don't know.

And Indians, like,

I wrote in my first cookbook, people were so angry that cauliflower was got to India by the British in 1930s.

Very, very new.

And Alu Gobi Matar, which is in the book, in Amuda book, and it's a great recipe, is a British combination because they even got the potatoes to Bengal.

The Portuguese got potatoes to Bombay.

The British got...

And I just think that, you know, in this kind of xenophobic hatred, which works both ways, of the outsider and the other, I thought I was going to send you on a journey of discovery and make you get things where there is a very strong British influence and an Indian influence.

And these are not so well-known dishes, but I just thought, let me make it more interesting.

And also it's a shared heritage, our shared heritage.

We always start with still a sparkling water.

Sparkling.

Very, very boring.

Straight.

No, that's not...

But still is a the boring choice, right?

Yeah.

Sparkling is the exciting choice.

That's the jazzy water.

Yeah, it's the jazzy water.

Would you agree?

Yes.

A bit more jazzy, a bit more fun.

Why would you prefer sparkling over still each time?

Because this is still something new to me.

I mean, in India, if your water had bubbles in it, you run.

There's something live at the bottom of the glass breathing through that water.

You see bubbles, you don't drink it.

And it's been 30 years, but in my heart, there's still stuff I take joy out of.

And yeah, to see bubbles and you know that it's not an animal breathing at the bottom of the glass.

I'm going to think that every time I see sparkling water now, I'm going to have to check the bottom of the glass and go, there's something breathing down there.

I'll be quite excited.

Yeah, if I had a little creature in my glass.

Go and live in India.

I am so scared of all creepy crawlies.

I've had a snake coming out of my shoe.

And I know that there's this kind of horrible impression that people have here, we're the land of lions and snake charmers.

But there are snakes.

There are snakes and they live in your school shoe in some places well i've tried to invite myself along our mutual friend uh nish kumar he he goes to india sometimes and i try and invite myself along to those trips and he always says i can't go well i think he's going on like a family thing mate i don't think

but i would like to go and hang out i don't want to go on my own nish's family they know all the hot spots yeah they know where all the good food is his grandma makes good fish curry yeah that's what i want i want to go with nish's family and then they always say i can't go well you have the book in front of you.

This is all home food.

India, you should go where you can eat in people's homes.

The food in the restaurant is not our food.

Same as the food in the restaurant here is not our food.

But yeah, you're absolutely right.

Wait, hold on, and hang on.

Otherwise, I'll take you to my home food.

Thank you.

Well, that's something.

To be honest, I think that works out better for me, food-wise.

You should go and eat home food.

Yeah, I will do.

I'm going to get that fish curry one day for delicious now.

You will.

Publubs or bread.

Publubs or bread, that's my card.

Pop-lubs or bread.

Bread.

What kind of bread?

Not naan bread.

Now, why specifically not naan bread?

No one eats.

No, because no one eats that in India.

Your bloody house will catch fire if you have a tandoor.

You know, this idea, people ask me, do you have non-naan bread?

First of all, it's like saying, you know, do you have bread, bread?

Naan is bread.

Bread.

I mean, how stupid are you?

Like, chai tea.

I kill myself.

Do not say naan bread.

Do not say chai tea.

There are lots of lists of things that you should not be saying, especially not to Indians, because we die.

A little bit of us dies every time we hear this.

Yeah, so please don't kill us so early in our lives.

But Papadham, just for all you other folks who don't know this, is never eaten at the beginning of the meal.

Somebody worked this out that because you know, mainly white folks have starters, let's give them something which we eat at the end of the meal just to mess it up.

So Papadam is given at the end of the meal to wipe up all the sources that are left behind.

And the chutney is a digestive to help you break down all the fatty food you've eaten.

Ta-da!

Oh my god.

So no papadum.

And bread, no non-bread either.

I just want any, any kind of bread.

But you just turned my whole world upside down.

Yeah, yeah.

We've been saying papa dums of bread to people on this podcast every episode.

I've ruined it.

We should have been saying it at the end.

We should have been saying bread.

You just shouted popping.

Would you like the bread?

Yeah.

And then at the end, shouted papadum.

So would you like a pop-adam at the end?

I'm so sorry.

No, just you have to.

Just, we'll do my episode in the right order.

Yes.

And then you can go back to doing it the other way.

Because everywhere around here, it's being done the wrong way.

So fine.

You're just fitting in with the society you're living.

Yeah, yeah.

We've been duped, right?

Not our fault.

Yeah, no, no, no, no.

It's not your fault.

This is what you've been told happens in India.

It doesn't.

It's all bullshit.

Who started that?

Even though I've just criticized this whole idea of the...

It's really started in the 60s.

It's some even earlier.

So there were Siletis, they're not even Indians.

They're from one little village mainly in Bangladesh.

And they got off the boats and they didn't want to go back and they'd be working on the ships, you know, merchant ships and other ships.

And they opened restaurants of what they thought was Indian food.

And they created a cuisine to make white folks happy.

So lots of cream and made-up dishes and messing up the order of how food is served.

But I actually think that, you know, it's incredible.

1960s Britain, no Irish, no dogs, no blacks, and no Asian person was going to be given money to open a business.

They didn't want to go and get benefits.

And this is what they did.

They created

make-believe cuisine.

And I think that this is fine because, and unlike a lot of Indian chefs who are very critical of the curry house, I will never criticize them because I know I stand on the shoulders of giants.

I don't know what it was like to be in the 60s in England, you know, people throwing stones through your restaurant window, people running away without paying, a lot of aggression with drunk people.

They changed the palate of a nation.

I am where I am.

I'm absolutely sure of that because I had first advantage, my cuisine.

Whatever happens, you know, your parents, you know, and y'all are young enough, you know, will remember their first curry as the first exotic dish they had.

And you will remember going with your family.

Maybe you're a bit too young still for that, but, you know, a little bit older than you, going to a restaurant to have, you know, a family meal in a curry house.

This is a huge advantage we have because it allowed us to to actually be part of the fabric of this nation.

And that is a massive advantage for all of us who are now serving the same food.

Different version, but I hesitate despite pointing out about the papara papadam as you call it, you call it papar,

that there is a difference.

So yeah, it's incredible that they did this, that they came in and they were in every village and all over the place.

I'm sure if you go and inspect Mars carefully, you'll find someone who

has a curry shop up there.

That's quite incredible, coming to another country and just really like analyzing the market, what people would like to eat and just coming up with something that will work and it actually working.

And it's pretty depressing that you take one look at British people and go, we're going to have to just dump a load of cream in here.

Bring the cream in.

Get the creamy.

Because we don't, you know, India is so hot.

You put so much cream in your food, it'll split your food.

And then after that, you will be sick for having eaten split food.

So So yeah, this is just something that was done for...

First time I saw an Indian restaurant was in Cambridge.

I almost died.

I couldn't believe.

I was trying to figure out what is this.

And everyone was eating it like so happy.

I was thinking,

I don't understand.

You know, where's the food going to come?

I thought this is just things to play with, you know,

till actual food turned up.

So what bread would you like?

I would like chapati.

And chapati is what we eat every day.

It's the most standard bread.

It's made on a taba, which is like a flat iron plate.

It's very basic, doesn't have any fat in it.

It's just, you know, chapati flour.

And it's, it's a basic bread that people will eat every day.

I mean, can't go wrong with it.

No, yeah, delicious.

And I think that, you know,

people still don't understand our food, but I think we're getting there.

We're getting there.

And it's exciting.

And you should say papadum and bread to your next guest, please, because

that makes sense.

I will.

And you know what?

If they don't pick me up on it, I'm going to educate them.

Anyone from now on who picks papadums, we're going to go, oh, right, I see.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah, at the end of the meal.

Is there a place you've had the best chapati bread?

Is there someone who makes the best that you've ever had?

One of the girls in my kitchen here, but no restaurant.

Restaurant is run by men.

They don't know how to cook.

They've learned to cook in culinary school.

If you look at all the, every chef who's working in this country at a certain level, mid-level,

upper end, their CVs are identical.

They all went to the same culinary school.

They learned to cook there.

And they worked in five-star hotels, fancy five-star hotels in India.

That's how they learned to mass cook.

We had one fridge and we had power cuts for eight hours.

You ate anything out of the fridge, you were bloody dead.

Yeah, everything looked like Shek inside.

It was green and things were growing in it.

Yeah, and you would speak just like Sheikh after you ate that because you're green, like absolutely dead.

So we didn't grow up, you couldn't mass cook, you couldn't cook in advance.

Yeah, it's a hot country.

It's very hot and very humid.

And half the time there was no power when I was there.

Now all the industries are closed, so we have power the whole time.

They shut all the factories.

So now people in the homes have electricity.

So you were saying to us before, you've got an all-female kitchen, Argentina Express.

And that was obviously, that's the deliberate thing when you set out to make the restaurant, put the restaurant together.

You were like, I will seek an all-female kitchen.

No.

No, it's just happened.

I can lie, just to impress people saying that this is what I planned.

Couldn't find a man who knew how to cook the way I did.

That's the main problem.

Because they have learned through instructions and batch cooking.

I learned to cook with my mother.

It's amazing that I've written this cookbook, considering that her instructions are so bloody random.

I burnt something in this while I was making, trying to make the recipe.

She only put one cup of water.

I put one cup of the whole bloody thing burnt.

I said, what is this?

One cup of water?

It burnt.

She said, yeah, it did.

So then I asked her, which cup?

Her cup is a bloody jug, huge thing on her windowsill.

I said, what do you say, one cup?

She says, my cup.

I said, yeah.

It's not.

So I, you know, this is the thing.

You ask any South Asian, also East Asian, the randomness of which mothers, when they give me instructions.

So we can't verbalize it.

It's intuitive.

It's through watching.

That's how you learn how to cook.

So all the women who worked with me in the beginning from my house and my supper clubs, they just watched me.

Some of them don't even eat meat, but they've learned to make it.

And also meat is expensive.

Many of them came from very deprived backgrounds.

So it's a luxury to have eaten meat.

People once sometimes ate meat once a year.

They just watched me, they learned.

and they're great and they cook just like my mom or my grandmother because I've been able to teach them not by telling them instructions like put one cup of this and that.

They just watch me.

And men don't cook that way in my culture because they never learned through their mothers.

We are deeply patriarchal.

It's a deeply feudal society.

And if people say that my brother was in the kitchen, I'd be impressed if they did.

I never saw a young boy in a kitchen.

In our culture, boys and men eat first.

Mothers and girls eat last.

The leftovers.

This is true in also other cultures.

All these agrarian societies where the men had worked in the fields and come back.

They were served the food, the best pieces of meat.

Still happens today in all our societies.

It's not just an Indian thing.

But you go there and see the choicest cuts of meat are given to the men.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

That's fine.

But when he has not been actually you know, harvesting the wheat the whole day, don't think he deserves that big piece of meat.

But that's still our culture.

We take it for granted.

It's internalized in us.

But that is how women cook differently from men in my culture.

Because we were in the kitchen.

We served.

We never got served the food complete.

We helped to make it.

And it's, you know, even chapati that I was talking about, it tastes like your shoe, my shoe, it tastes like my shoe within 10 minutes because it's hard and rubbery.

It's made fresh.

Who is making that bread?

Who is making that bread fresh and hot and ready to serve?

In my book, I write about this.

I tell you a way to keep it warm.

I tell you, please make sure that the girls and the women eat together.

Because it wasn't just that we were given food last.

It often was burnt.

The ones that didn't make it to the table is what we got.

You just thought you were unlucky because your roti was burnt.

And now when you talk about it, and for everyone who's listening to me, they will suddenly make that connection.

It's done in such a kind of casual way, you don't even pick it up.

That your chapati is burnt.

Your chapati is dry.

You are eating last.

The hot, fresh, fluffy ones go to the men on the table and the boys.

So I'm not going to get any guy to cook for me because I don't think they've understood it.

They've not understood what it is to serve.

I'm not cooking to impress.

I'm not your Michelin star chef.

I'm not doing poof and puff and putting edible flour and micro herbs and making it look fancy like a garden.

I'm cooking to heal you.

If you eat things what I cook, you will feel it.

What you will feel is my love and my time.

For me, the two valuable things in a cook is patience and generosity.

And that is why our food is what it is.

It is about serving and watching someone eat.

So it's not an easy place to be a woman.

And this is why we are at the price point we are, in the location we are, the only all-female Indian restaurant in the world.

And I couldn't have done this in India because we would not have been allowed to.

It had to be London.

And this is why I love the city.

This is the greatest city in the world.

It accepts you.

It gives you space.

It gives you shelter.

And under its umbrella, you can be anything you want to be.

I have a kitchen full of immigrant women.

Our identity is London.

We're Londoners.

We're not British, we're not Nepali, Indian, anything.

We feel a love for the city and because we know the city made us

like all your other guests.

I've got you on the show.

That's great.

I'm so sorry.

No, this is why it's good.

We're just really enthralled with what you're saying.

I went to your restaurant and you spoke a number of times during the evening and I said we've got to get you on the podcast.

This is all us, right?

This is why you're here because we like you talking about it.

So you know the thing is that you know it is storytelling.

It's a restaurant you know but the bottom line is not about the fact that you've come here.

I'm going to extract the most out of you you know and charge you extra for your papa dums especially because you don't know when which order it should come in.

No no we don't do that.

It's about storytelling.

I am trying to hold your hand and take you through a journey.

I'm not just trying to feed you.

I'm trying to immerse you in my culture.

This is why this restaurant is so different.

We want to embrace you.

It is an extremely intimate thing.

When you cook for someone, you know, my fingerprints are unique.

I touch something, I roll it.

Even if you were next to me and we were both following the same recipe from the book, this has nothing to do with the fact that you're not from my culture or you're a different gender.

Your sensibility is different.

Your senses, your idea of what you are cooking with your whole being.

So when you give something to me, you're giving part of yourself to me.

I must honor it and I want to know who you are.

I will not just take your food and pay and walk off.

People shouldn't do that.

They need to know who are you.

You've made this stuff for me, but I won't sit them down, ask them who they are.

You can't do that in a restaurant's environment, and that's why I come up and I talk.

Because I'm talking so that you know.

And I talk about my women, the ones that are cooking, not just about me or the food.

I tell the stories because it's very important.

When you separate culture and food, This is where all the mess happens.

You know, this whole thing of appropriation, people using food.

And also, I deeply feel this as an immigrant, as a Muslim.

I won't let you take my food and not take me.

You don't have the right to eat my food and get up from my table and walk away, listen to my music, wear the clothes inspired by my culture, and then call me names.

That you're not allowed to do.

Please sit down with me and eat with me, break bread.

You want to hate me after that.

I forgive you because at least I got a chance to talk to you.

This is very important.

This is why food is a bridge between host communities, immigrant communities.

London is a great place.

We have lots of different varieties of food.

But we do not have the storytelling because too many men are cooking who don't know the stories from the kitchen because they never learned.

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Your dream starter.

Yes.

I'm going to be very difficult.

I want prawn cocktail.

Oh, yeah.

Yes.

In India, that is in Calcutta, this is like the height of sophistication.

A hangover from the 60s, you know, when the British left, this is what they left behind.

And prawn cocktail, I still absolutely love it.

I went to Balthazar and ordered it that day.

It was just like, wherever I go and I see the menu,

people are horrified because they think, you know, what is wrong with you?

But yes, prawn cocktail is my ultimate starter.

What is it that you love about it?

Is it that it's still back in India, it's still like the height of sophistication?

Is that and that you can't shake that?

Yes.

Yes.

Even though you're now in London, you know, it feels like it's fashion.

And in India, you know, of course, we are all, you know, anything that has got eyes on all, you kind of avoid, you take the heads off things.

But you always had, because that was what they did in the times when the British were there, you still have a whole prawn with a head hanging on the side.

You've got lettuce, which is a huge luxury.

You know, everything bloody wilts.

Human beings are wilting in the heat of Calcutta.

But somehow there's always this this crunchy lettuce at the bottom.

And yeah, it's so exciting.

I'm still, probably about a week ago, I ordered a prawn cocktail and I don't normally, but it looked delicious on the menu, how it's described, king prawns.

So I ordered it and it did not come with king prawns.

It came with the tiny little ones.

Little shrimps.

And I got about five of them.

And I was very...

I don't complain ever at restaurants.

So I just ate it, but I was very sad.

No, no.

So you bringing up the prawn cocktail makes me feel

still too recent.

Especially bringing up the big guy hanging on the side.

The big guy hanging on the side.

I thought the biggest guy.

I wish the big guy was there.

Sometimes it helps to look at the price.

Although that's also not true anymore in lots of restaurants, they charge you and they give you complete garbage.

But if you look at it, it's a bit expensive.

You think, yeah, maybe it's going to be really nice.

But anyway, I love the one I had.

Is there a particular place we're getting it from, this prawn cocktail?

Well, I've had it at Balthazar, but I usually get friends to make it for me.

I want to risk in the restaurant.

I don't want to have the same experience as you.

Teeny, tiny prawns, not my fun.

I want big, big ones and I want it to look really fancy and the glass has to be really nice.

That'll kill me if it comes in some ordinary glass.

Because in India, they come in martini glasses.

And it's always a silver spoon.

with a square edge to it.

Very nice.

I love you.

You just lit up talking about this fancy prawn cocktail.

So excited.

Yeah.

You'd have to be careful if your mum was making you one and said, you know, make it in a glass.

It could give you a massive jerk, right?

No, no, she's not.

never knows you never know what but my mom it would could go all go pear-shaped but because she ran a business for a long time uh this was one of the big things that she would do in her catering business people would have biryani but their startup would be prawn cocktail yeah no it's it's it's the ultimate sophisticated thing to have in in calcutta so you say you you get your friends to make it for you yeah out of all your friends who makes the best prawn cocktail yeah

no not getting into that because this will happen

because they're all going to listen to this and then others will never make it for me.

And even though there's some of them make it really badly, at least they make it for me.

I'm not going to burn my bridges.

So this is a known thing.

Everyone knows that you like prawn cocktail.

It's a well-known thing.

So anyone who's friends of yours, before we even ask you the question, they knew what you were going to say.

Yeah.

Yeah.

This is very,

I'm very predictable.

Which is very sad because, you know, you want to be kind of mysterious.

Well, it took me by surprise, if I'm honest.

Yeah.

I wasn't expecting prawn cocktail to come out.

Yeah, because if people who know I'm from Calcutta would have completely expected me to say prawn cocktail.

It's a big thing.

I sent Richard Wines, who was at that time working for Bloomberg, to my favorite restaurant in Calcutta.

And the first thing he wrote about the prawn cocktail was amazing.

So, you know, it doesn't matter that people have eaten in all kinds of sophisticated restaurants around the world.

Sure.

Calcutta does it so bloody well, really well.

Do you find that like food critics,

I don't know like how

you know, friendly you are with a lot of food critics or how well you get to know them, but are they more easily won over by sending them to places that aren't that fancy, that are like, you know, more like homely dishes or very simple dishes?

If you send them to a chip shop to get some fish and chips, are they more likely to be like, that was brilliant, than they are at like a Michigan-style restaurant or somewhere like that?

Well, my experience is that they don't ask me about fancy restaurants because they know I've not gone to one.

So the food critics who are my friends, and I'm friends with quite a few, have always asked me, where can we go?

And one of the places where I really regret sending Tom Parker Bowls was to an incredible place run by Afghans in the border of Azeristan.

They have a hook higher than this and they hang the naan on it.

The naan is this big.

It's the best chapli kewab, naan and karai gosh I've had in my life.

And I told this to Tom Parker Poles.

He's ruined it because that place is now packed.

He wrote a review on that.

Yeah, those kinds of food are really fabulous to get.

And it's, this is like the middle of bloody nowhere next to, I'm sorry if you live there, but next to East Hounslow.

So it's quite a hike.

And then from there, it's quite a hike from the station as well.

But fabulous food.

I think it's important because, you know, people's palates are probably jaded from having food that is more or less similar, even though there is now more variety.

But these kinds of little gems, which are very small and very niche and make just four things, are still incredible.

More and more now.

The fewer items on a menu, the more I'm quite excited about that place.

Yeah, because it's bullsy.

It's a bullsy on the part of a restaurant if they're terrible at four things and they put them on the like

four things on the menu and they can't cook any of them.

I have not thought of it that way, but yes, that's true.

That's true.

We have four things on our menu, and yeah, it's uh we cook fresh.

We don't use fridge, and none of the girls in my kitchen had a fridge in the house when they were growing up.

I never saw a freezer.

I thought bloody it was a coffin.

The first time I saw a freezer, someone opened it.

I thought some human beings were gonna jump out of it.

I saw a coffin, it was like a coffin in college, the first kitchen I'd been to, a big kitchen.

When they opened it, I thought, my God, there's a human being inside there.

Because, you know, what are they going to put inside there?

It was huge.

Yeah.

Your dream main course now.

Is this one that your friends would guess as well?

Is it something that you're known for liking?

No.

No.

It's actually something that is bastardized in this country a lot.

It's Jhal Farezi.

Oh, yeah.

I love Jhal Farezi.

It's made properly in Calcutta.

But a lot of people don't know this is actually leftover Sunday roast that they used to make for the Saab, the the Maim Saab, the English people who the cooks were making it for.

And then all the rest of the roast chicken that was left over and potatoes, they would shred with their hand and stir-fry it with chilies and onions for themselves.

But soon the main people in the house noticed there was this lovely aroma coming of chilies.

But this is made with leftover chicken.

And in Calcutta, they do it beautifully.

We have a very big Anglo-Indian community.

And Chalfarezi is so good, but I have it in a very strange way.

I have it with bread and butter.

What kind of bread?

White bread.

White bread.

We don't do brown bread.

White bread with lots of salted butter and jhalfaraisi on top with tomato ketchup.

That for me is my ultimate mains.

Ah, that's like a proper leftover street.

I didn't see the ketchup cut in the air.

Yeah, so I know.

I'm probably blown my entire reputation of being this authentic Indian chef talking about all this kind of cold cocktail and

jhal for

ketchup on on top with butter and toast.

No, but the thing is, you know, I can't fake it.

This is what I love.

Have you always had it like that?

Have you always had it with the bread and butter and the ketchup?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Of course.

Because that's how, I mean, it tastes the best.

Yeah.

I know, I know.

I do it the right way.

What is it about the ketchup that we're?

Because I'd think the ketchup might get a bit lost in it.

No, no.

Cold ketchup on the hot.

Cold ketchup.

Cold ketchup on the hot chalfarezi.

Yeah.

See?

You're so.

Yeah.

You can get it.

You got it.

He got it.

You didn't get it.

He's smart.

I understand.

That's the dynamo.

Yeah, so it just is a great combination.

You know, toast is crispy, you know, all the masalas going through.

Now you're going to obsess about this till you make it.

I probably am.

Yeah.

Yeah, it does sound like, because especially because it's toasted.

Yeah.

I'm going to roast the chicken and leave it until the next day so I can make it properly.

Yeah.

Jow Frazier is like my normal order in a curry house because I've found it's the one that between curry houses is the most similar wherever you order it.

It's very hard for them to mess it up.

Yeah.

I mean, they don't tell the story of what it is.

It's a leftover meal.

And very much like yoga that was rediscovered by the West, even though we've done it in the East forever.

And also, we had a meat-free day in Calcutta.

We've always had in India one day we'd meet free.

And now you guys have meat-free Monday.

So a lot of stuff that has been done for a long time in the East is now being done in the West.

But this whole idea of no waste.

You know, people die of hunger in my country.

People don't throw food.

We don't throw food.

Even my restaurant, if you have leftovers, we beg people to take it.

We pack it.

And then I've seen that depending, I try to figure out what kind of person is this.

Do I use the emotional argument or do you use the financial one?

Because I use the financial one for those who look like they may not take it.

I say, you paid for it.

You're going to throw away your money.

Take it.

Give it to someone.

And then there are those who are these kind of

tree-hugging, soft-hearted people.

There you talk about hunger and take the food and it'll be really good for you.

So we do all of that, but we don't throw away food.

Because the bad bit is my entire staff are horrible.

All the leftover food that has been thrown, I have to throw it because they have memories of hunger.

They say it's cursed.

If you throw food, you will be hungry your whole life.

So who do they get to throw food me?

Because they were saying like, you know, it might be good for you.

You need to lose weight.

And I was like, you know, this is so bad.

So yeah, so when you come to a restaurant, please, for God's sake, take all your food and go.

So they're happy to curse you.

Yeah.

Because they were saying you won't be cursed because you don't know what hunger is.

And somebody, it's true.

I don't know what hunger is.

And they do.

So these are women with very large hearts, but this is deep superstition.

You know, it's about throwing salt and kissing the bread when it falls on the floor.

There are these kinds of things.

I don't know that one, right?

Kissing the bread when it falls on the floor.

Yeah.

I didn't know that.

Yeah.

I know they're throwing salt over the shoulder.

Yeah, but in Eastern Europe culture, people drop bread, they will pick it up and they will kiss it because bread, same like we do with rice.

In India, in my part of India, if you drop rice, you kiss it.

Right.

This is life.

The grain of rice, piece of bread, is about living.

Between life and death, that grain of rice can make a difference.

So when we drop it on the floor, we kiss it.

You're learning a lot.

Yeah, learning an awful lot.

Do you kiss each grain?

Yeah, because we drop loads of rice.

So it's only the pain that people drop, especially kids when they drop a lot of rice.

We do then just gather it together.

Oh, yeah, big pile.

It's really about just showing respect.

Showing respect for food.

And I don't mind.

I try and get my kids to do it.

They don't do it.

They're born here.

They have no understanding of what it it is.

Although, I have to say, serves them bloody right over lockdown when there was no egg and no flowers.

When there were no eggs, my son was flipping completely.

You can't get a delivery slot and there are no eggs.

I was thinking, very good.

For God's sake, now you understand.

You know, you don't have the God-given right to eat whatever you want.

My son was like the end of the world.

How old is your son?

He's 22 now.

And he loves.

He loves eggs.

I've never known anyone to love eggs that much.

Oh, yeah, he's quite frightening because he trains as a boxer.

He also teaches boxing.

So he eats everything raw, cooked, uncooked, unsafe, safe in the fridge.

You leave him alone for a little while.

The whole house is eaten everything up.

So yeah, he's quite something.

It was quite a challenge when he came back during the lockdown.

We struggled to feed the boy.

I felt I was, you know, at some point, I felt I would rather feed 200 people in my restaurant than my two kids.

They were so ungrateful, so demanding.

so obsessed about things that I did not have in the house.

I was like, you know, why are you doing this?

Even if someone came to my restaurant, even if you're bloody poor rudder and said, I believe this, I said, no, it's not in my menu, he would not argue.

I mean, these kids, like, you know, why can't you get it?

Can you go and make it for us?

I'm like, you know, I had to learn how to make lasagna by looking on a YouTube tutorial.

Because they said, no, no, we don't.

I said, yeah, go and get lasagna from Max and Spencer's.

They were saying, no, you make it fresh.

You're a cook.

I was like, why am I doing this?

It was the worst thing in my life.

It took for bloody forever.

And I hated it.

I had to wash up so much afterwards.

It It tasted fine, but you know, it was just nightmare.

I think we both have the same point that we would like to go back to in that story.

Which point?

I've got a few.

Probably Paul Rudd.

Oh, yeah, Paul Rudd as an example immediately.

Yes.

Did Paul Rudd,

has he eaten in your restaurant?

Or was that just like heat?

No, Paul, he's so, I can't believe he's the same age as me.

Oh, my God.

He looks so young.

Look, we're all absolutely bowled over by Paul Rudd.

Yeah, and he's wonderful.

He's so nice.

You know, you really want someone who you look up to to be nice.

So Paul Rod, Danley, we're both incredibly sweet and kind and humble.

Oh yeah, there was the photo of them together.

My mother is like the ultimate.

She saw the photo and people were calling her.

Say, hey, Asmaz, I was then all everywhere.

She called me and said, I can see you.

Who are those two white guys?

When he was in the restaurant, did he eat many things with sauce in it?

How much sauce did he have?

No, he had everything that I gave him.

He was the most easy customer

to look after.

And then he knows this rice story of mine.

He packed all the leftovers and took it home, including five boxes of biryani.

So he picked up everything, scraped all the grain off, and took it.

We're told he's not a condiment guy.

He doesn't like ketchup and stuff like that.

If he had that Charles Frazier you were talking about, he's not putting ketchup on the bottom of the corner.

No, he didn't have Charles Frazier.

He had very different kind of food with very little sauce and loved the food.

It was really nice because he came back three times in three weeks.

That you know of.

He might have shrunk down to Ant-Man's size.

That's why you've got to always check your sparkling water, just in case it's Paul Rod curled up at the bottom of your glass.

He's

running around grieving.

So, those stairs are now called the Paul Rod stairs in my restaurant.

People come and take, and even people bring their pets.

So, they haven't eaten my restaurant, but they bring their pet to stand and pose on the stairs.

The little pet.

Oh, I love it.

Your dream side dish is peas.

Peas with butter and a bit of sugar and salt.

This menu, every single turn has surprised me.

Because

we don't get,

I've collapsed the first time I saw when I moved to Cambridge in 1991 that you got frozen peas in a bag.

In India, you only get peas in winter and you have to pop them.

And we don't do things by halves.

So, you know, family wedding, 5,000 people.

But what are they going to have?

Peace palau.

So who are the free labor that you can exploit?

Children.

So all the kids were lined up and bloody whole winter we were popping and then creepy crawlies would come out from some of them like little caterpillars.

Oh, horrible.

So you just kind of prayed and hoped that this one doesn't have an insect in it, this one doesn't have an insect in it.

And we had to pop the peas so that all the fancy you know, in-laws and important people ate peas pull out.

But I love peas because, you know, alugobi mutta is my favorite thing.

And I love peas, but you know, I didn't like popping them.

First time I saw peas, and my husband was very embarrassed.

My husband's typical, I mean, people look at us and think, you know, how are you guys still married?

He's very, he has no sense of humor.

He doesn't like food.

He's very, very boring.

He's very introverted.

And doesn't even like, he's just like, oh my god, he's a very boring person.

And he took me to the supermarket because I didn't know how to do anything.

I didn't know how to use a card.

I just come from India, fresh, you know, no idea.

I saw the peas.

I said, wow, frozen peas.

And there's a peas.

Can I open it?

I opened it in excitement.

Peace everywhere.

I could understand.

I could feel the peace from outside.

There were peace pictures.

And I didn't deliberately open them.

But there were peas everywhere.

And I mean, my husband just left me.

His land.

I was so embarrassed because it was just, I was super excited.

You're just super excited that it wasn't a body in the fridge.

Yeah,

I've had to learn a lot of things.

Now, when people come, you know, and I I have no sympathy for people who come from India now and say, you know, oh, I miss a family.

You can bloody WhatsApp your dog in Delhi.

When I came, you could do nothing.

You know, it was very expensive to fly.

It was very expensive to call.

You could see anyone in the family for a year and a half.

You couldn't call them, you know, more than twice a month.

It was very expensive.

I remember I couldn't use a CashPoint card.

I stood in the rain in Cambridge.

My husband had gone away and told me to take it out, but don't put in the wrong number.

Otherwise, the machine will eat the card.

That was enough to spook me.

The idea that the machine will eat the card and also probably eat me.

I was standing there in the rain watching people taking out cash.

I'm surprised I wasn't arrested, you know, person standing there looking at people.

It was a very different time and I'm glad I went through that because things still give me joy that people take for granted.

Living here, I watch my kids and I see that they are so privileged.

They don't understand.

And I came from a highly privileged background.

I had everything with me in India.

But I still find these things great.

Like you can get peas in a bag.

And this is why I love peas.

But I want it with butter, salted butter, and a little bit of sugar.

And if I want to be very posh, some mint on the top.

Oh, yeah.

Some mint.

Sugar on the peas.

I've never heard of it on the peas.

I can imagine it.

So just pinch, not a lot.

Just a pinch, yeah.

Just with sweet, a little bit more sweetness.

You won't do a pinch, though, will you?

Well, I probably will.

See, this is the thing.

I'm, you know, running theme on this podcast is I'm obsessed with desserts and sweets.

So you're going to have a peas dessert.

Yeah.

Pea brulee.

Pea brulee.

Pea brulee.

I would eat that, yeah.

But like, it's weird because like, because of that, because of how obsessed I am with that, for main courses and stuff, I don't often put, like, yesterday I made a curry and the recipe said to put sugar in it.

And I didn't do that because I was like, I can't put sugar in my main course.

And so I didn't do it.

But the recipe seems to be.

He's ignoring the recipe.

You will find put sugar in curries and quite a few of my recipes.

Yeah.

It's a very, it's this whole thing of balance of sweet and sweet and sour.

And this Ayurvedic idea that you know, seven, astringent, sour.

So all these balances, you know, spices don't are not complementary.

They're contradictory.

Indian food is the only cuisine that does this, where things work against each other.

Sugar acts to balance the thing.

So that pinch of sugar, add it next time.

Your food will not become dessert.

Believe me.

I know this.

I know this one.

That's what you're worried that you're having some of your sugar rations for the next course, right?

Yeah, yeah.

I'll be basically just having like a sugar fest.

Yeah, I'm having sugar main course.

It's just a pinch, though.

Yeah, yeah, just a pinch.

I should just do it.

I should do it.

I should do what it's going to do.

Be brave.

Be brave.

Yeah, I should be braver.

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Sucks!

The new musical has made Tony award-winning history on Broadway.

We demand to be home.

Winner, best score.

We demand to be seen.

Winner, best book.

We demand

It's a theatrical masterpiece that's thrilling, inspiring, dazzlingly entertaining, and unquestionably the most emotionally stirring musical this season.

Suffs.

Playing the Orpheum Theater, October 22nd through November 9th.

Tickets at BroadwaySF.com.

Your dream drink then?

Ah, this is a hard one.

Ginger beer.

Because I don't drink alcohol.

And you didn't get ginger beer in India.

And when I came here, someone told me that, you know, ginger beer is not alcoholic.

But I still want to have it just in case it was alcoholic.

I was like, what does it taste like?

It's really nice with Indian food.

I know people have lager and everything.

I don't know because I don't drink.

So I have no idea how it works.

But I think that...

you know it's the kind of the bubbles and the fizz and the sharpness it goes really well so sparkling water without ant-man in it yeah is nice.

And also then ginger beer.

How fiery are we going with the ginger beer?

Not very fiery.

By the way, I'm very excited that we've got ginger beer on this.

Yeah.

I don't like a super sharp.

But the problem is I still don't know which one is sharp and which one is not.

I never have the brains to work out and look at the label and say, for next time, remember, this one is very sharp.

So I then get stung again and ordered one that is very sharp.

So I don't know the names of it.

But no, I don't want it too sharp because I want to be able to taste the food with the ginger beer and not like have my head blown off.

So is there a particular brand that you would normally get or is it everybody?

No, it's the one that comes in a glass bottle.

I don't know what it's called.

The one that comes in tin is very sharp.

The one that comes in a glass bottle is not.

So I'm very thankful.

I know, I don't know.

The Fentamans on the Fentamans.

Yes, Fentamans.

Fentamans.

Fentamans?

Yes.

Fentamans, they're in the bottle.

Sure.

They're quite nice.

I mean,

I think I like the fiery ones.

Yeah, I like a fiery one.

I like a fiery ginger beer.

Most things that I consume, I want to be absolutely just kicked in the face by.

Yeah.

See, that's not my idea of fun.

Also, for me, ginger beer reminds me of the famous five.

Yes.

Yeah.

I knew that.

I knew about ginger beer before that because we all read Ennet Blightener like crazy.

That was for us.

And I was so disappointed when I came to this country and I saw that it's not quite like that.

I actually thought I'd see little pixies under toadstools.

So I saw,

and I remember the porter in the college.

telling me, don't go near that, that's poisonous.

I saw something that looked like a toadstool.

I was so excited.

yeah but you realize oh god she's come from india she has no idea she only picked that up i couldn't believe it the first time i saw one yeah with the red red cap yeah yeah like a real toadstool yeah very exciting well that's like it's irresponsible really of kids stories to make those toadstools out to be magical yeah uh nice and then actually they're some of the worst ones no no i i i now know that you can't just eat every kind of mushroom but i still it still is anabliton and it's still you know stories that i read in india so when i see you know, randomly fungus growing here and there, I still keep thinking, oh, someone lives under it.

Ant-Man.

Yeah, it could be Ant-Man again.

Your friend Paul Rudd there with his leftover.

Yeah, so Paul Rudd, I think that as he's had enough biryani and done enough PR for my restaurant, I think the last scene of the next Marvel film should be a biryani in my restaurant.

I think it was, was it, I don't know which one, but it was a Shwarma, was the last scene.

It was in the

first Avengers film, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I remember that.

So yeah,

the next generation of Avengers should be eating a biryani.

Yeah, it should be a biryani, yeah.

It should be a battle, one of the things that should be London as well.

Julian Express,

we should go there after this.

And then the post-credits is all of them there, with Ant Man leading it.

When I was in your restaurant, there was a

MCU star there as well.

Kamal was there.

Oh, oh, so now I know Vista Night you were there, yes.

Yeah, yeah.

You gave him some biryani.

I gave him biryani.

He came on this podcast and he had biryani as his main stream main.

I made that biryani only for him.

Yeah, I know.

Oh,

I was sitting there watching it.

Are you shitting me?

No, we all got to have some.

It was delicious.

Yeah, so because I remember seeing him in this crazy program where he was weeping and having chili sauce and talking about my biryani scene from Netflix.

Yeah, from Netflix.

And I thought, you know, when he contacted me, you know, I'm coming and I'm going to bring somebody, some friends and please get the table.

Trying to get a table for six in my restaurant is like asking for the moon.

But

I gave it to him.

And And then I also made the biryani because I was like, you know, he's just so incredible.

And, you know, in the big sick, that's also this last scene with the biryani and the potato that his father got him.

Biryani is something emotional for him.

It's a real privilege, you know, to...

It's exciting that they're famous people.

But for me, anyone who comes in with that story of wanting and yearning for food in that way, I feel such a blessing to be able to feed them.

And Kumal, for me, it was that.

You know, he could have been anyone.

I saw that and I knew that biryani was important for him.

It was a pain in the neck to make it because we were so busy.

But I thought, no, I'm going to

make the biryani for him.

Yeah.

Well, see, you're gradually racking up everyone from Marvel.

And that will be in a film soon enough.

Soon enough, you're going to be in there.

My dream is to have Samuel L.

Jackson.

That I really want to feel.

So I'm waiting for him.

Yeah, because

he's got a lot of iconic food scenes from films.

If you can make him a tasty burger, Royale with cheese cheese.

Yeah, he'd be happy.

I love that film.

And it's so bizarre because my kids are like, you know, it's such a violent film, Mama.

Why do you like it?

Also, before we move on, the other food thing that I think of with the famous five is cucumber sandwiches.

I'm wondering if you like cucumber sandwiches.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah, yeah.

All these English things that you think English people have.

I absolutely love.

And my kids, you know, hate them, but I tried to make it for their school lunch because they wouldn't eat school dinner.

So I had to give them back lunch.

And they were like, you know, cucumber sandwiches, no way.

I was like, you know, I would be so happy if my mother had given me cucumber sandwiches.

I sit down and think, I'm in the storybook.

Yeah.

I'm living that life.

But no.

Because it's sort of based on that inspiration of Enid Blyton.

Do you want lashings of ginger beer?

Oh, yes, it would be lashings.

It has to be lashings.

It has to be lashings, yes, absolutely.

I've forgotten that.

That sounds good.

That's good.

Lashings of ginger beer beer beer beer beer.

Yeah, it sounds way more.

I can't even imagine what a container it would be in.

It's just coming at us.

I know.

How would it work?

It just sounds so good.

It sounds so good.

If I had an empty glass and someone said to you, what, lashes of ginger beer?

If I said yes, I would expect my hand to be drenched

with all the ginger beer.

Yeah, they've just gone

all over it.

We arrive at the dessert.

As you know, my favourite course.

Excited.

I always get nervous.

I'm also now nervous because of the fact that you will not like my choice.

This is the thing, is I always get nervous that people are going to pick.

Oh, I have two options, and now I desperately want to pick the one that you like.

Yeah, well.

No, the one that that I'll like will be the one that he doesn't like.

So you're pleasing someone.

But, you know, my usual reaction for, I can't do that.

Oh, God, I'm so nervous.

But I'm just going to still say

English trifle.

Yeah,

that's good.

I'd be happy with it.

Love it.

Brilliant.

I was just so nervous.

What was your other option?

Baked Alaska.

Oh, come on.

I need both of those words.

Yeah, you'd be happy either way, wouldn't you?

They are both this kind of.

I was worried you were going to say a cheese board is what I was worried.

Oh, my God.

What is cheeseboard?

I never said.

Yeah, I know.

God, this is for people who are so tortured in their lives.

Yeah, yeah, you know, who really need to go into therapy.

Yep, yeah.

People need to go into therapy, those who have cheese boards.

Because after you've had a bloody meal,

you eat sweets.

What are you doing?

You're kind of.

I don't understand.

I like a cheese board as well.

He likes a cheese board.

He likes them.

I do.

Why?

What are delicious ways to end?

On a salty kind of

why?

Yum, yum.

I've put so much sugar in my peas.

You need some sweetness in your life.

Yeah.

Well, I get that.

This is a nice

chutney with the cheese.

But it's all salty.

On a poppadum?

Yeah, we have a poppadum at the end of the day.

We know that now.

Yes, allow that.

No, but you have poppadum and chutney and then you have dessert.

Oh, right, okay.

So the salty end is like...

Overall, I prefer a cheese board and then a dessert.

If I had to choose sometimes, I'd like a cheese board.

Awful, isn't it?

Yeah, he's a bad man.

Yeah.

But you're okay with trifle, me too.

Oh, very, very happy with Trifle, yeah.

Delicious.

I think you're a fourth trifle on the podcast.

I'm surprised more people haven't chosen.

I think I can remember who...

Jamie Oliver, Harry Hill.

This is incredible, James, that you remember this.

Yeah, well, because Harry Hill, we talked about the three layers of the trifle and who was who.

Yeah.

So it was Jamie Oliver, him, and it was someone else who Harry Hill really liked, I think.

But now I can't remember who it was.

Oh, Mamando Minucci.

Yeah, there you go.

So you're in good company here.

So the four of you

have blown my reputation of authentic Indian chef who's just written an Indian cookbook, dedicated her mother, and I've picked like the most bizarre things that for me would be.

But you gave us a heads up though.

You did tell us what you were going to do.

So I think it's fine.

I think it's a good thing.

Because I never play to the galleries.

Yeah.

Ever.

Because actually you can't sustain this whole thing.

I cannot fake anything.

So because Calcutta is still hung up on the Raj, the British left in the 40s.

Calcutta hasn't really moved that far in some ways.

We still have this kind of bubble of

what people think is sophisticated, what they think is beautiful.

And you will still go to very beautiful clubs,

gentlemen's club, there used to be, but now of course you could families there and get baked Alaska and get a trifle.

It's just wonderful.

Coming from a city like that, I don't think everyone in India could even relate to what I'm saying.

But Calcutta was the capital of the Raj, you you know, after London, hate it or difficult as it is,

at least you can look at the positives of it.

It's very uncomfortable for all of us to have lived like this and known that our history is, you know, with all that happened with colonialism.

But there are all these positive things that we got one cocktail and we got trifle.

And so, you know, I think there are always good and bad.

And, you know, we need to embrace things that happened and not hate.

So I refuse to hate anyone.

And for me, trifle and peace, yes, anything.

You're not together, like in friends.

No.

No, no.

No, your mom wouldn't understand that language.

That's good.

Would you try the trifle that Joey ate?

No.

You wouldn't even try it?

No.

I would not try anything that Joey ate because somehow Joey is just slightly frightening.

But we had David Schwimmer coming to Kingley Court, and I have never seen such chaos.

More chaotic than when Danny DeVito came.

Danny DeVito, we were able to hide.

David Schimmer came.

He was very small.

Because of his height or whatever, he just spoke, and that was chaos.

I mean, we were just like trying to protect him from everyone.

Danny DeVito, people just thought, was so,

he was so wonderful.

I think people just hesitated.

David Schima was mobbed.

We didn't know what to do.

We couldn't control anything.

It went out of control.

He was too tall, too tall.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it was just...

De DeVito's the perfect height for just sneaking in places, isn't he?

Him and Ant-Man.

Yeah,

Danny DeVito was like kind of fridge-size.

size

and so wonderful.

We didn't told him not to speak too much.

It was so loud.

Everybody outside the restaurant could hear him and would like stop.

Danny DeVito.

So yeah, it was just like, but I told him you should just keep low-key and then, you know, people won't see you.

Also, he's outside.

That's so brilliant.

That's so brilliant how much you run your restaurant that you're like, I've got to tell Danny DeVito to shut up.

No, because it became

unmanageable.

Because people would just queue outside.

Like even Kira Knightley, when she would leave, we would literally run her out because they had everyone chasing her down the stairs.

Get Kira Knightley to be quiet by just like, she just write down stuff and hold it up on boards.

Yeah.

And then no one will hear her.

You know, food should be about this.

It doesn't matter who you are.

You come to my door, you put your burden down outside.

I say this to everyone who comes, you know, leave your burden out and who you are is out.

You come inside, you sit down, and I will feed and feed.

That's what I want to do because that's the great equalizer food is my mother taught me this you know you feed with the same respect and honor you do not ask that person who they are unless they're samuel jackson samuel jackson i think i will i will just pass out

yes uh i'm gonna read your menu back to you now see how you feel about it uh sparkling water uh chapati bread starter prawn cocktail main course jal fraisy with toasted bread and butter ketchup on top side dish of peas with salted butter sugar and mint you want lashings of Fentaman's ginger beer and dessert, an English trifle.

Do I get to eat it now?

Ah.

You're a genie.

This is not how it works.

Huh?

It's not how it works.

You are the genie.

Yeah, you, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, you eat it.

What's all the sound effect of the biggie if you're not going to deliver now?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, you deliver.

I'm going to get, no one's ever called me out on this before.

I mean, that is.

No, it's just one of those all-sound and no-show.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So you go into no translations.

We ask you what you want, and then we just go, see you.

One of the difficulties of the perception people have that you are now successful as a chef or a cook or whatever.

No one invites me.

No, I hate it.

I really miss that.

My friends have stopped inviting me.

They invite themselves to the restaurant.

And I don't think I've ever been, anyone has cooked for me for a long time.

Well, if you're listening, Paul Rudd, sort it out.

Yeah, come on, Paul.

Also, I know how you feel.

No one ever tells me any jokes no more.

No,

no one ever jokes to me.

Oh, I haven't laughed in years.

Did I sound as bad as that?

No, no,

no, no, no, no, no.

I love my friends.

You know, it's easier for them to come because there's food in my place than for them to bother making prawn cocktails for me in their house.

Thank you so much.

I've really had a great time.

Oh, thank you very much, Esmond.

That was fantastic.

Thank you.

Well, there we are.

What a great great episode, James.

Wow.

Felt an honor.

An honor.

And

it's always so lovely on the rare occasion we feel like proper podcasters.

Yeah.

So it felt like a really good interview.

And that's mainly because asthma is very arresting.

And we, yeah.

We didn't talk as much, which is, I think, that's when I feel like a proper podcast.

Yeah.

When we don't trample over everything, I guess.

Yeah, we're not going like, what's up, America?

You know, actually remembering that they're the guests and directors.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, I like cheese.

Well, we did do that a bit, but we still wanted to get there.

Leopard can't change its spots.

You didn't offer a popadom at the end.

Oh, I feel a bit...

That's annoying, isn't it?

No, we fucked up.

Yeah.

But what a wonderful interview.

She did not say supermarket sushi.

Of course she did not.

Which means she's earned a full plug for her brilliant cookbook, Amu, Indian Home Cooking to Nourish Your Soul.

That is out now.

So go and buy it.

We've had a flick through and we're already very excited to cook some stuff from it.

Yeah.

if you've just listened to that episode and you don't want to buy it, then I think you won't listen to the episode properly.

Yeah, you're an idiot.

You're an idiot.

Um, but if you don't want to buy James's book, I do understand, but I'm sure it's going to be very good.

James, what is the name of your book?

Say it quickly and say it from memory.

James A.

Castle's Guide to Quitting Social Media, Being the Best You You Can Can Be, and Killing Yourself of Loneliness, Volume One.

So, make sure you go and get that book by Jean Z.

Castle.

What?

You said James.

That's how you started it.

Oh, oh, God.

My Tour Electric is My Tour Electric electric is currently happening all over the UK.

Go on to edgamble.co.uk for tickets.

Sure, I've been some places already, but there's a lot more places to go.

Yeah, if you missed the ones so far, make sure you catch them later on.

Yeah, uh-oh, my chair nearly just slid into Benito's little desk there.

James, I'm trying to plug my tour and you keep doing your slapstick.

Sorry, everybody.

I'll be back on stage one day.

Oh, James.

With the slapstick.

Thank you very much for listening.

We'll see you again next week.

Goodbye.

Goodbye.

Sucks!

The new musical has made Tony award-winning history on Broadway.

We demand to be heard!

Winner, best score!

We demand to be seen!

Winner, best book!

It's a theatrical masterpiece that's thrilling, inspiring, dazzlingly entertaining, and unquestionably the most emotionally stirring musical this season.

Suffs playing the Orpheum Theater, October 22nd through November 9th.

Tickets at BroadwaySF.com.

Oh, hi, James.

Have you heard the news?

Oh, yeah, go on.

You and I are modern boys because the Off Menu podcast is now on YouTube.

This is embarrassing.

Why is it embarrassing, man?

You love YouTube?

I love watching clips on YouTube.

Sure.

Now people can watch clips of Off Menu on YouTube and full episodes.

But it's embarrassing, man.

It's not embarrassing at all.

It's really cool.

We're on YouTube with the great and good.

The coolest people in the world are on YouTube.

Me, you, Logan Paul.

Who's Logan Paul, the dad from Succession?

At Off Menu Podcast.

That's what Benito's calling us now.

And we're on TikTok.

This is embarrassing, man.

It's not embarrassing, man.

We're cool.

We're like Olivia Rodrigo.

And Ed.

People have been asking us, battering us, bothering us, actually.

They want to watch the Stephen Graham supercut from the Stephen Graham episode so they can see all of his reactions to us, everything that he did.

Oh, Benito has bent to their whims.

And he's going to put it on YouTube.

He's going to do it.

Follow us at Off Menu Official on TikTok, at Off Menu Podcast, on YouTube.

You can watch clips from the podcast.

And on YouTube, you can watch full video episodes.

People have been asking for it.

And you're finally getting it.

Full video episodes.

So you can see every single nuance on our little faces.