Ep 117: Ainsley Harriott

James, huge news from the world of off-menu and indeed the world of the world.

Yes.

Ever heard of the Royal Albert Hall?

I have.

We've done live shows there.

And guess what?

We're doing more live shows there next year.

Sure, a lot of them are sold out already.

But we thought, hey, throw these guys a bone.

Let's put on one final Royal Albert Hall show in that run.

The show will be on Monday, the 16th of March.

It's going to be a tasting menu, a returning guest coming back, receiving the menu of another previous guest.

Those shows have been a lot of fun.

We cannot wait to do them live.

Who will we pull out of our little magic bag?

You'll have to come along on the 16th of March to find out.

If I'm correct in thinking, presale tickets go on pre-sale on the 10th of September.

Pre-sale tickets are 10th of September at 10 a.m.

And then the general sale is 12th of September at 10 a.m.

So if you miss out on the pre-sale, don't forget general sale is only two days later.

The day in between is for reflecting.

Get your tickets from royalalberthall.com Hall.com or offmenupodcast.co.uk.

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Suffs!

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Playing the Orpheum Orpheum Theater, October 22nd through November 9th.

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One shot of fun, one shot of chat, one shot of humor.

Add the ice cubes of good times, put it in the pot of the internet, and shake it all around until it's all mixed up.

And pour yourself a nice long glass of the off-menu podcast.

Merry Christmas!

You've ruined it.

Why are you saying Merry Christmas?

It's not Christmas.

This is not a Christmas episode.

It's currently July and it's baking.

Why are you saying Merry Christmas?

I thought I did quite a good intro, and then you've said Merry Christmas.

What does that add?

You know why I've said Merry Christmas, Ed.

Oh, because it's our Christmas in a way.

Yep.

Tidings of comfort and joy to you, Ed Gamble.

I take it back.

I do feel Christmassy now.

This is the big one.

The big one.

Our Santa Claus is here.

Yes.

On the Off Menu podcast, where we welcome a guest into the dream restaurant and ask them their favourite ever starter, main course, dessert, side dish, and drink.

Not in that order.

Not in that order, actually, especially at Christmas time.

And our special guest today, our very special guest, the guest we've been trying to get since the beginning of this podcast is

Ainsley Harriet.

Ainsley Harriet, an absolute legend, a British institution of cooking, of entertainment television.

He is a huge part of both of our childhoods, I think, James.

Massive.

Firm fixture on the TV, and what a guy.

What a personality.

No disrespect to any of the other guests that we've had on this podcast, but you were all just ways to get to Ainsley.

That's all you ever were.

We butched you on the podcast just so we could show Ainsley Harriet that we had a good format and that we could talk to any old idiot.

And now we've got Ainsley Harriet harriot on and it's christmas time

we quit we quit now we've got ainsley we audi bonito you're fired

we're hiring ainsley as the producer yeah and we quit as well so i hope you enjoy ainsley's podcast next week he's not on it he just produces it yeah he just produces a podcast so who knows what this is going to be next week but there you go however Maybe he won't be the producer if we have to kick him out the dream restaurant.

James, if we have to kick Ainsley out the dream restaurant, I'm going to be so upset.

I'll cry a thousand Christmas tears.

It will be the worst Christmas ever if we have to kick Ainsley Harriet out of the dream restaurant.

But hey, if he says the secret ingredient, which is an ingredient that we deem to be gross, then we have to kick him out.

That's what we did to Jade Addams.

And the secret ingredient this week is Sammy Sardines.

Sammy sardines.

Sammy sardines.

We've, of course, done it in the style of Ainslie.

Yes.

Of Susie Salt, Percy Pepper, Sammy Sardines.

Yes, sardines.

The

the sharks of the sea.

The sharks of the sea, that's what everyone's saying.

So many bones in those things.

It's not right, is it?

What how can something so small have so many bones?

Yeah, you shouldn't be allowed that many bones if you're small.

And what are we doing trying to eat them?

It's too much faff.

I don't get anyone who doesn't have a problem with bones in fish and just doesn't doesn't mind it.

Eats around them.

I hate that.

Ugh.

The whole thing is just such a pain.

I hate the feeling of fish bones in my mouth.

Joe, what?

We've never talked about it on the podcast, really, because no one, rightly, no one's ever chosen

fish with bones in it and their dream meal.

There's some fish that it works okay for you can like, they come off the bone quite easily.

But those, like sardines and all that.

I had bonito once.

Do you know bonito is a fish?

What?

Let me say, it's not great.

Oh, no surprise.

Small and bony?

No, it's massive.

They're massive.

They're a bit like tuna, but then the meat's not very good.

And then there's so many little thin bones in there.

In fact, it's exactly what it would be like to eat the grape bonito.

It would, wouldn't it?

The meat's no good, and he's full of little thin bones.

Well, if Ainsley says Sammy Sardine, and I'm looking for specifically that.

I don't know about you, Ed.

Oh, if it's Sammy Sardine, he's out.

If it's sardines, we can talk about it.

We can talk about it with him.

We can just let him know, look.

We said we'd kick you out if you said Sammy Sardine.

Yeah.

You've said sardine.

Did you mean to say Sammy Sardine, be honest?

And he'll say yes and then we'll get it.

Okay, I'll admit it.

Yeah, I did.

I forgot.

Ainslie has a new book out that we will tell you a little bit more during the episode, I'm sure.

And then we'll mention it again afterwards.

Good mud food.

Good mud food.

I pronounce it Good Mood Food.

I'm in the whole thing.

You're writing the whole thing.

Yeah, I suppose.

Okay, Good Mood Food then.

Yeah, either Good Mood Food or Good Mud Food.

Yeah.

I mean, it looks great.

It looks great fun.

Absolutely.

Looks brilliant.

It's Ainsley Harriet, mate, my hero.

Yeah.

It's out next week.

I'm excited.

Yeah, Good Mud Food is out next week.

I mean, there's loads of fun, tasty recipes in there.

I'm reading the thing now.

There's things like beer-battered fish and triple-cooked chips.

Lovely.

Chicken kia with tarragon and lemony beans.

You know, this is all good home-cooking stuff.

It truly is good mood food.

Yeah, it absolutely is good mood food.

I can't wait to eat all that good mood food and put myself in a good mood.

So, let's all get in a good mood and welcome to the Off Menu podcast.

Ain't Harriet!

Welcome, Ainsley Harriet, to the Dream Restaurant.

What a place to be.

Oh, look at the genie.

Look what he's got.

Welcome, Ainsley Harriet, to the Dream Restaurant.

We've been expecting you for some time.

Well, I didn't even rub the lamp and you popped out.

Eager.

Eager, impetuous, and eager.

He's a very premature genie.

Oh, I love it, love it, love it, genie.

You can literally, anything, anything that I command, you can deliver.

I can deliver it.

And it's a good point.

No one's ever pointed out before.

No one ever rubs the lamp.

I just covers it straight out.

No one ever rubs it.

Well,

if you rub it, it's kind of, it's more of a personal thing, isn't it?

It's a real kind of, as you rub it, it's your, you own it, if you know what I mean.

That sounds a bit twisted, really, doesn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah, so I guess

it's this genie.

It's not a case if you rub it, you own it.

Because this genie lives in the lamp and is not owned by anyone, but chooses to live in the lamp and pops out out when he feels like it.

Ah, right.

If you rub it, it's just for fun.

Is it really?

Yeah.

I'm tempered to the restaurant.

It's not your rubber, you own it.

If you rub it, it's just for fun.

Yeah.

Makes me want to go to bed, really.

I dream of genie.

Is that your favourite genie when you think of genies?

Yeah.

Did I dream of genie number one or as a lad in genie?

Kind of, because I'm

of that generation where we did fantasise a lot more, do you know?

And literally you read books and you fantasized about what you were reading and you put your imagination would run wild.

Where I remember that great hit video, Kill the Radio Star?

As soon as people started putting pictures and animation or real-life acting into something, you lose something because they're telling you how you should think as opposed to your imagination grasping it and thinking, now this is where it takes me.

This is what that song does for me.

And I think it's the same with you when you rub the old lamp and the genie pops out.

We have different imaginations of what we like.

Did you come out in a puff of smoke or do you just come out?

However you like really actually.

This is your dream restaurant.

This is your dream meal.

So if you don't want any smoke at the meal, I can tone the smoke down and make sure it doesn't come out the lamp.

There's no smoke without fire, is there?

Yeah, exactly.

Slime in the lamp.

Gene, Genie, let yourself go.

Now I know we were talking about the power of the imagination being better than actually seeing what's going on, but I really wish everyone listening could see what happened there because Ainsley really went for a little old dance.

I did.

I loved that little bit of shake of the shoulder.

Lovely Velvet Zoo!

I'm very excited about it.

How are you visualising the dream restaurant, actually?

Like

what is your dream restaurant setup?

I think the dream restaurant setup is

kind of something which is quite colourful.

I think, you know, we are in the heart of Brixton just off Electric Avenue.

This is Electric Lane and it's got a nice vibe around here.

Lots of colour, lots of diversity and kind of makes you think, yeah, this is a time, it's relaxed, relaxing on the eye.

Because I think what it is, it's about you can tell by the way people sort of paint their living rooms and stuff now.

And, you know, we are moving into an era of

colour.

You know, we like a bit of vibrancy.

And you can see when you watch TV commercials about food, my new book is all about colour in the food.

Getting colour in the food, it kind of, it gives you, it's kind of, it's, it's almost, we talk about titillating the tongue, it's all about titillating the eyes a little bit, if the colour's right.

You know, I don't like too dark.

I don't like when you get in some, you know those, when you get into a lift in New York and you can't even see how to press the button what floor

dark.

Do you know what I mean?

It is so dark in there.

If you want to get in and have a snog, that bloody CCT cap was not going to pick up a bloody thing if you start getting a bit fruity you start rubbing it you get the old genie out

you rub it your own

do not incur my displeasure

you mentioned your book as well just there um good mood food uh good mood food yeah happy about that happy about good mood food because uh i think all what we've gone through it's uh it is about giving stuff you know or doing stuff that just reminds you a little bit makes you put or put more importantly just put you in a good mood you know i think food can do that.

I think sometimes we can get very sort of bored with it, but if you're putting a little imagination into it, and we have so much choice now, don't we?

When you walk out there or when you pick up your phone and you want to get one of your delivery people, and we are sport for choice.

It's not just an Indian and a Chinese now.

It's every conceivable nation's cuisine.

He gave me grapes early, and I keep coughing up bits of skin.

Benito gave Ainsley a plate of grapes.

Yes.

And I think they were...

Were they seeded, Ainsley?

No, they're seedless, but they've seen better days.

So what happens is the juice starts to dry out a little bit in the grape.

You can see that.

And it's a little bit brown.

It's still delicious and juicy.

Sure.

But

notice I'm squeezing it instead of rubbing it.

So would you...

Would you...

What do you like?

Don't rub the grape.

Just eat it.

You don't own it?

You don't own it.

Would you describe this plate of food that Benito gave you as good mood food?

Be honest.

Be honest.

I'll be perfectly honest.

I think looking at

our producer, I think he's probably got a few healthy bones in his body.

Because look what he's bought me.

He's bought me a plum.

He's bought me some rather nice cherries, grapes.

Yeah.

I think it's...

Coffee.

The thing is, is that you were saying you're still getting bits of grape when you ate it earlier and then you put a grape to it.

Well, I was just showing you the juice and once I saw the extraction of juice, I couldn't help but eat it.

I had to.

Yeah, I had had to.

Oh, and coffee's pretty crap too, but we don't care.

It's bad coffee.

We don't care.

Do you know what?

We've become snobs, haven't we?

We've become snobs.

Do you know if I went down to my mates as a kid and someone gave me a cup?

I'd be happy just to get a cup of coffee.

Now we've become complete snobs.

Yeah.

You know, we're all sort of turning into that kind of Australian barista people.

Do you know what I mean?

Just say, oh my God, the milk's far too hot.

You know, they've got to have the perfect temperature.

It's got to be ground and everything's just got to absolutely come out the way

it should to make the ideal cup of coffee.

I'm not entirely sure.

I think sometimes you're just in a hurry.

Life is just about, you know, whisking it together.

Was it Mr.

Bean who did that thing where he got the

ball on this podcast?

Really?

Yeah.

Did he give you nightmares as a child then?

As an adult.

Did he not rub your lap hard enough?

Like, no.

Was that his lap that he was rubbing?

We always start off still or sparkling water, Ainslie.

Do you know what?

I don't really mind, but I will say that I'd probably go down the still route, but what I will absolutely insist on is no lemon or no cucumber.

I mean, I just can't understand.

If I want a finger bowl, I'll ask for one.

You know what I mean?

I do not need the acidity or anything in my water.

I just want water.

And if people really know about water, I've been with some people at water connoisseurs.

I don't you know water's water to me you know but when you are with them and you start going through there and you you haven't got plaster from the night before you haven't got tobacco breath or something like that

you can actually taste the difference you know there is a it's it's quite subtle but it's there so why would you ruin it with lemon and if you go especially if you go a bit of fine dining we are talking about going to the proper restaurant for proper food

you you know you just want water I don't want anything with it cucumber loads of slices of cucumber and mint floating in it.

Why?

It's horrible.

Just plain old water, glass of water, beautiful glass.

You know, that makes that really starts off the meal properly of the glass.

They call it spa water, that.

Have you had that before where they put, even in like the big water cooler, they'll put cucumber in it and mint and call it spa water.

It makes me think of it's like all the water that's run off from the baths.

You know what I mean?

Like you're drinking all the water come down from someone being sluiced down.

Horrible.

Just to ruin it even further for you.

I just imagine I just like to think where you go to.

The grubby little boy.

I know he is.

He likes a bit of sleuth water.

What would you like, sir?

Some sleuth things.

What sleuth?

You said beautiful glass.

Yeah.

What you're imagining there when you imagine a beautiful glass.

I'm just imagining the correct weight.

I can't stand things which are just flimsy or just...

Glass should be...

It's the first thing you actually do when they arrive.

you arrive in a restaurant they normally come isn't it before you drink you might have had a cocktail before but if you get a beautiful glass that's put down I don't mind a little bit of colour in the glass just a sort of tinge but just a nice glass good weight it just sets you up just like resets you ready for the meal like you're ready yeah it would it's almost like buying a house and walking in there and they're baking potatoes you go

it just gives you that oh what a lovely home you haven't seen that the best way to sell a house is bake a potato well it used to be i don't know i've done it now i've been doing it for a while.

But apparently, if you go in there and something's cooking, it gives it that homely feel.

Yeah,

I've heard that with bread.

I've never heard it with potatoes.

But with baked potatoes.

But that would work for me, I think.

Yeah, well, you know, yeah,

baked potatoes worked.

Bread would have worked, but I suppose when I was at my peak, when I was probably in that way when you kind of think, right, buy and sell.

Do you know when you get obsessed with buying and selling?

Yeah.

You buy it and then you kind of do it up and put paint over that, you know, cover that up.

But water for me is, yeah,

that's how things start off.

And then we move on to the...

Pop it up as our bread.

Pop it up as a bread, Ainsley Harriet.

Pop it observed bread.

Pop it up, boom.

Pop it up as old bread.

I'm a sucker for the bread, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm a sucker for the bread.

And the worst thing is, is when the bread is warm.

God, you know.

The worst thing being the best thing.

Yeah, the what?

Yeah, because when it's warm, it's just, you just, you just want more of it.

It really is.

It's, you you know, there you are talking about, I mean, okay, I'm talking about bread coming.

You know, when you walk into a house, can you imagine being given that bread?

My mum used to make her a little hard-dough bread or something, and she'd take it out of the oven and

just put the butter straight on it.

It was the most wonderful, luscious thing ever.

So when you go to a restaurant, you get those warm rolls or something like that, or just a nice selection, you know, you go to one of those posh places and they have proper bread.

Proper, you know, you get a bit of sourdough.

It's been souring up for three or four days.

It's really got the flavor.

it's sour, and you put it in your mouth and

sweeter.

What are you imagining on this selection at the dream restaurant?

You've got a bit of that sourdough.

What else is on there, warm bread one?

Warm bread.

Do you know what?

If the bread is right,

you know, I know you can get lots of fancy butters with lots of bits of rock salt in it and some with a bit of chili and some with this and that and then we can go on and on and on.

If the bread is right, do you need much?

You know, it's kind of, there's so much flavor getting in there.

And I think this is sometimes what spoils it.

And why, even when I think of my favourite foods, it's kind of straight down the line.

There's not too much going on because you interfere with it too much.

There's too, you know, it's a lovely piece of bread, maybe a lovely olive oil or something like that, and just a little bit more rock salt because, as my

late father would say, like misalt.

And, you know, when you just put a little bit more salt in there, you know.

Fuck the arteries.

I'm sorry, but it's true.

Yeah, it's that if you like something like that and it gives you that much pleasure, well, go for it.

Now, famously, you always referred to salt as Susie salt,

but when it's rock salt, does the first name change?

Is it Robbie Rock?

Robbie Rock Salt, Reginald Rock Salt, Robbie Rock.

It doesn't feel good to call rock salt Susie salt.

That doesn't feel right to me.

Rock, rock, rock, robin, rock, rock, rock, rock, rock, robin, rock, rock, rock, rock, rock, robin, rock, rock, rock, rock, robin, Susie, sling your hook.

Oh, yeah, Susie, go away.

We don't want you no more.

Me already, we're robbing and rocking some more.

Oh, rock and salt.

It makes you feel so good.

Woo, woo, woo.

I said a rock and salt.

Susie, you ain't no good.

Perfect.

Absolutely perfect.

Poor Susie.

That's a great answer.

Poor old Susie.

Poor poor Poor Susie's salt.

It's all about it.

Well, yeah, but what goes on top of Susie's salt?

Perfect.

I need to pass the proper week.

Good education, that's all right.

Every afternoon when I got home from school, Ready Steady Cooks right on the TV.

Right straight on.

Love it.

And Can't Cook Won't Cook.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I used to love a bit of Can't Can't Cook Won't Cook too.

I think these nostalgic programmes,

they really identified, they touched the nerve with people, you know, they connected with people because especially Ready, Steady, Cook, that came along when

I remember the Fern Britton, who was the most wonderful presenter.

She's now busy away writing children's books.

I'm not even sure if they're children's books, but she's brilliant at anything like that.

And

they wanted her to do something on ITV.

She said, well, I'm just doing this little programme on the BBC at the moment called Ready, Steady, something, Ready Steady Cooking or something.

And I think

it'll probably go away in two or three weeks because nobody wanted any cooking programme in those days, unless your name was Floyd or Franny or Fanny or something like that, you just didn't get the gig.

And of course, Ready Steady Cook came along, and you know, there we were, sixteen years later, still kicking ass.

You know,

it was really, it was really something.

And Fern was there for the first seven or eight years presenting it, then I came over and came back from the States and took over and loved every minute of it.

It's a bit hard.

I felt a bit like Kenny Dole Gleash having played for Liverpool, then become a manager.

And you've got to be, you know, suddenly.

More responsibility.

Well, I know what, more responsibility.

You're holding it all together.

You just want to have a great laugh with your mates, cooking food and frying it up, adding a bit of Susie salt and

purse pepper.

And of course, you're then having to kind of massage the whole show, you know, keep everything going.

It's a different skill, I guess.

It's a totally different skill, different set of skills.

Very, very different, but great.

You know,

what a buzz, what an energy.

It's almost like us going to work and think,

what's going to happen today?

And we'd like a little bit of that.

Do you know what I mean?

Did you take any souvenirs from the show?

I'd have been tempted to take home, like, you know, one of the devatu boards, one of the, I don't know, and get them framed in my house.

Yeah, I might have one or two.

I might have a little ready, study, cook mug.

You know,

you're a mug, one of those.

I've got a few of those at home because you didn't win.

Yeah, I've got a I've got a f few bits of

memorabilia.

I wonder what happened to those off.

Because, you know, when a programme ends, you wonder what happens.

All the equipment.

You know, you have your van or whatever it is full of all your equipment.

And then the team come along and they bring everything out and get everything ready for the show.

And then it's all packed away again.

You know, you work solid for three weeks, making three or four shows a day and crack on.

Were you doing three or four of those a day?

Yeah.

You must have been knackered by the end of the day.

Absolutely.

Because you threw yourself into every show energy-wise.

Yeah, well, you do, because it's a 4.30 in the afternoon, is what people want to see.

They want energy.

You get home, you're feeling a little bit flat,

a little bit flat from school, or everyone's feeling a little bit.

So to have that kind of energy and that magnetism

and the fun and then giving you ideas about what you're gonna what you're gonna nosh that night.

How exciting is it?

You know, thinking, yeah, I'll have some of that.

You know, beautiful.

Four a day, though.

Did you start to regret the decision to go high energy when you realized you had to do four a day?

Have you ever done anything four a day?

Why are you laughing?

Why are you conread?

Get back in, you are f ⁇ ing louder.

Finally, someone said it.

Did I regret four a day?

No, you know, it was the gig.

Yeah.

And it was,

and we could do it and we'd got pretty slick.

But, you know,

when you're in the zone and when we're all cooks and we've known each other for a long time, that show's well established.

You just get into it, right?

Here we go again.

Hey, good afternoon.

Welcome to Really City Cooks.

Joining me, Sean Walter Thompson, and Brian Turner.

You know, and then we go in, we interview, the guests would come along and people were genuinely excited.

And I actually missed, I think that we all became a little bit obsessed with having celebrities you know on the program whether it's ABC or D grade celebrities didn't matter yeah they were on the program they're enthusiastic about cooking I used to love the general public I used to love when people used to come from a little town in Devon and start talking about their gooseberries or something like that you know and then you could find out some information real people yeah and there was something really wonderful about it because there's something about the public something really quiet and that's when I think I was, or still am, because I'm still making programs at my best when you're just meeting people.

They've got less

guard up, I guess.

Less worried about their

image, yeah.

You know, you've got to

bring them out.

There's something, there's something really human about that.

We all are, to start with.

You know, you're a little bit guarded.

Oh my God, a camera's pointing at me.

And look at us now, you know, we are, but you think about our parents petrified.

Oh, am I looking all right?

Now there's a camera everywhere.

Yeah.

You know, while we're doing this, as cameras, it's part of our life, you know, and we just accept it.

We get on with it.

Well, let's get on to your dream meal.

Yeah,

do we have to?

Your dream starter to begin with.

Is this from a specific place or is it a general dish?

I don't know.

Do you know?

It's kind of

food.

It's so seasonal, so peopleish.

I thought that was your choice for a second.

Yeah,

well,

it could have been.

But,

you know, it's about company and stuff like that.

There's so many different elements that make your meal a happy meal.

When I think back, you know, what do I love?

I certainly love the idea of beautiful soups.

I think, you know, as a starter, a fantastic soup is great, but it does encourage you to tuck into all that lovely bread.

You know, but I think one of my favourites of all time was a tuna tartare with a citra caviar sat on top.

Wow.

A little sprinkling of diced avocado and chive around it.

And I think there was some caramelized kind of chili rings just placed delicately around.

And the real beauty of a starter like that is that it's slowly consumed.

You get a few of them.

Do you remember the old Barth Oliver biscuits?

I don't think you see them very much.

Oh, there was something called Barth Oliver, and they had a real crispy crunch to them.

And they were just weighed enough too.

They didn't sort of disintegrate when you put them on a plate and you spread something on it.

You know, a lot of crackers just crack away.

And it's quite delicate.

And I remember just eating that because it's a slow process and you're putting a bit on, then you put a little bit of that on, then

you eat it.

See what I mean?

It's almost like normally with a start or so, everything

and just eat, eat, eat.

But when you slow everything down and you bite in, and then you've got to go back again, the whole enjoyment just goes

up, up, up, up and up because

it's so pleasurable.

You keep going, but

a little bit more of that, a little bit more of that.

Instead of that one big hit that you get.

And of course, and you know,

I prefer beluga's great, beluga's also more expensive.

But when you get it right, when you can get the right caviar and the right blend and everything else, because it's so real, you know, I haven't had caviar, certainly with lots.

I don't think I've had caviar in a couple of three or four years now.

But when you tear sit,

when that sturgeon licks your tongue,

and when you get your tongue and you push it onto the roof of your mouth and you burst those little pockets, those little balls and

then it just sort of just kind of spreads around your mouth and all the different flows.

Oh, I just love it.

I love the bursting thing.

Some people can't bear it.

My fiancé, she's like, I can't, it's horrible.

Why would you want to burst something in your mouth?

Definitely do.

I love the Japanese, like the tobiko, the really big orange balls.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

You get those and

they're like basketballs basically yeah push them to the roof of your mouth and blamo

done it's quite nice explosion blamo blamo i love it i like blamo i love blamo yeah i love uh i love blamo yeah

maybe he's going out with the wrong person

he might be he might be

orange balls yeah yeah well

blamo blamo

where did you have this dish my first uh experience of it was at the four seasons in new york York.

Oh, lovely.

And it was very, very beautiful.

And me and my agent have this wonderful connection because the worst thing you could do to Ainsley is hand him the wine list.

And I was out there and they were kind of, you know, trying to make me feel good because I was going to do a programme out there, which I did.

And lived out there for a while.

And we had this fantastic Pinot Noir that I ordered.

And it was just...

blew us away.

It was fantastic.

You don't get that opportunity very often.

People want to show off and you can really really try something.

Because we often see a bit of expensive wine on the menu.

You don't go for it.

You normally turn it and I say, look how much they're charging for that.

Fuck me, if there's a £500 bottle of wine on it.

Do you know what I mean?

You have those type of situations, but to

kind of say, God, that would just be brilliant.

And you've had it at some tastings before.

You know, when I was involved and worked in the hotels, used to go and meet the Semelier and stuff like that.

They used to have these tastings down in the cellar.

And some of them, you know, they'd buy wine down there.

They'd say, well, no won't be ready for four or five years but they buy it yeah and just put it and lay it down but sometimes you get the little connection you taste oh and I'm not a connoisseur I'd love to be I'd love to be able to have that palate that being able to identify with something and I'm pretty good you know I know a cheap bottle of wine now it's really good medium up to about medium up to about 15 20 pound in your your store Beyond that, I'm not very good.

It's hard to really, really.

I mean, there's so much to learn, isn't there?

It's like crazy amounts of grape varieties and all of that.

Yeah, and I puff a bit late at night, play me back gamma and a few scotches with me, mate, or take out a

bottle of rum, say, young man, I need some of that.

Yes, or them cigarettes, straight.

Don't any of that.

Anyway,

and

it's so lovely because, you know,

you can appreciate it, but when you get to that other level, as I said, I don't understand it.

I just, I really would love to be able to because it's

beautiful, isn't it?

Something that's you never

regret your extravagances.

Do you know when you go and you bought something, you never regret it?

You might talk about it, you might look at your bank account and go,

but the reality is you never really regret it because it's your pleasure.

Yeah, something that you've given you, you know.

Anyway, so this meal's taking a bloody long time.

It's perfect.

We're loving it.

We've got the tuna, the tuna.

Yeah, the tuna and that's the four seasons in New York.

And

beautiful.

I love the decor.

I loved everything about it.

I love the company that I was with, a guy called Gelman, who was

one of those people that nod a lot before they answer.

How are you?

I'm fine.

How are you?

Do you know those people?

Tell us about Gelman.

I want to hear more about Gelman.

Gelman's biggest frustration was that he had the most wonderful view over New York because he lived on the 48th floor of an apartment in New York up on the west side.

But the only drawback is that unless you got out early in the morning, like you left at six, it could take you half an hour to get down because the lift would stop on every floor.

People don't realize that.

Do you know what I mean?

So you have this fantastic view when you get out there.

He said, gotta get your timing right.

Otherwise, your whole day's fucked up.

And you can imagine.

Yeah, that was a nod.

That was a nervous twitch twitch from being in a lift too long can you imagine i mean i'm i'm terrible when someone jumps in the last minute but the doors are closing and they put their arm there

you feel like monthly don't you're really pissed off that the doors have opened again and then suddenly you know uh it takes a little bit longer because they stop on another floor and you have to wait

standing at the back of an elevator and waiting for all that time yeah i mean it's like uh i don't know would you take the stairs 48 flights I mean it's down I'd do down.

I wouldn't do up.

I'd try it.

You need to try it at least once yell on that takes you, right?

Gelman must have tried that.

I don't know if he did.

He was quite fit though.

You know, he's quite fit.

I sent once said to him that I needed a massage.

He goes

I know the I'm nodding here.

I know a good guy.

Right.

And he sent me around this guy and he turned up fucking muscles out here.

He was carrying a bag.

You know, they walk in with their bag and they put everything out and they've got the lovely super soft towels but then he started on me oh my god it was so strong so powerful you know when they push down yeah and you feel every bit i mean i was much fitter then but you just feel your muscles and everything and when he left i could hardly see him out the door i kind of walked really slowly and closed the door and just lie there like that he just stretches everything they're so powerful their hands are just so that's all they do you know i mean they're fantastic at kneading a a bit of dough or something like that.

They're just their hands were just amazing.

Angie, this is the dream restaurant.

So, if you want the bread that we've already brought you to have been kneaded by a masseuse,

very well.

A Gelman's masseuse, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, done, done.

GMB, Gelman's masseuse.

Come to GMB, Gelman's masseuse bread.

We need it the way you like it.

Your dream main course.

Do you know what?

I looked at this when you guys crossed me and said, you know, your favourite main.

And I went back and forward and I thought, God, I've had some amazing things.

But you know, the thing that kind of identifies with me more than anything else is food that is really succulent and luscious and you want to go back.

And that's my slow-cooked lamb.

Yes.

Lamb.

We're talking about you know getting some nice big flavours here and one of the things I love to do is I like to get crush up the garlic with a bit of anchovy and people think it's going to taste really fishy.

You know when you push it into those you make little pockets and you're beautiful and it's all about the quality of the of the lamb.

You know spend a little bit more get something and the fact that you're slow cooking you might be able to get away with a cheaper cut here actually but I like the idea of the leg and I just make these little pockets a little knife make these little incisions with the garlic and the crushed up and you make it into kind of a paste and you put it in with the anchovy and you push it in there you know and you get that everyone thinks you're gonna push it in it's gonna be really sort of fishy tasting but it's not it just melts into the meat and you're cooking it for at least four hours you know and then when you've done that and you know that it's cooked you remove the foil we've got loads of other flavours going on there too you know when i we're not we're not just stopping on the garlic and anchovy and then you pull off the your your fork covering because you also cook it with stock.

That's the secret of a slow cook.

You must keep introducing a little bit of moisture into it, it kind of steams away.

Then you remove the fork, pop it back into the oven, and just let it kind of crispen up.

Turn the oven up to about 220, so nice high heat, and just finish it off 15-20 minutes, take it out, let that rest.

Boy, that's so good.

Bring on the colours lower cheese.

That's what we say.

Yes, mum, pushed punde.

And I just love it.

I love food like that because I just keep going back again and again and again, you know, I don't want it too delicate.

I'm talking about one's favorite food here, one that you sit down and you rub your belly and you look at your shirt.

There's a few drips on your shirt just to remind you of how succulent that was and how hungry you were to get it into your gob, you know, the few

drips down your chin.

It's my favorite way to cook as well, proper slow cooking, where you can put something on in the morning and the smell fills the house for the whole day leading up to it.

Isn't it just perfect?

Isn't it just perfect?

And people know it too.

And it's so comforting.

I think that's what it is.

It really is comforting.

My mum used to do a lot of it.

She used to do more than so much slow cooking.

She used to do a lot of marinading.

So I can remember every time we opened up our fridge, one of those fridges with the big handles used to clunk like this.

You know,

it was almost like an old card door handle.

Anybody of any age would understand what I'm talking about.

And every time I opened it up, this fridge, it was just, even though she was covered it with no cling film in those days, it was wet, wet grease-proof paper or wet damp cloth that went on top of it.

You know, and the smell.

And, you know, and this is, this is why I kind of, I love it, that kind of, you know, always all spice was always in there, you know, that wonderful combination of cinnamon and nutmeg and clove and black pepper, all of those kind of things.

And it's no surprise, you know, that I've grown up with wanting to kind of add introduce flavours to things because food can be a little bit bland, but when you get it right.

Boy, it feels so good.

I went down to Ed's house recently and he was making pizzas all day

for everyone.

And he made a pizza where the topping was slow-cooked lamb and anchovy.

Oh, wow.

It was.

Yeah, it worked out pretty well, actually.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's a bit like the old Paul Pork or something.

Yeah, exactly.

Because I did the lamb the day before for six hours, shoulder, and then it just pulls apart like pulled pork and

stuff.

You strip it and you put it down, and people really enjoy it, don't they?

Yeah, there's something about it, and you know, it's a bit

caveman-y, really.

Perhaps it takes us back to how we used to cook really, really slowly.

You know, when you go out to sort of Oz and they, you know, how they'd take the roux, the kangaroo, people

out in the wild, used to dig this pit, and then they fill it with bits of wood and stuff like that, set fire to it, and those hot flames, then they'd put the roux, kangaroo on top, take all the, burn off all the fur

and something, and they'd be able to strip that off.

And then when those embers died down, all the fire and everything really died down, they would then take the meat, throw it on top, and if they did have salt or anything, they'd just throw handfuls of this stuff.

Then they'd take the soil and put the soil back on the top.

And they'd go away for two days.

And they'd come back.

and they'd dig it up and that thing would be so cooked tender Can you imagine that?

It would just be.

But you can't, because the only other time we've heard about that was a previous guest on this podcast called Joe Thomas, who tried to do that with a lamb and absolutely fucked it, Ainsley.

It was really awful.

He ruined it.

He ruined it.

I think what it is is that you've got to get the embers right.

And so you've got to have enough of that.

These are, you know, we are talking about one of the oldest civilizations and they probably knew how to do it.

I think your mate probably put it in his back garden.

Well, the thing's really doing it, you know, outside in the bush in the correct environment for it.

And they're super dry and like you say, generations of doing it, knowing how to do it.

Yeah,

Joe Thomas did it in Soft Touch's back garden.

Yeah, yeah.

A local mum called Soft Touch, and

she let them do it in the back garden, and him and his best friend, who at the time was

someone's dad that he knew, so a much older man, buried this lamb in the back garden.

And then when it came out, it...

It was raw.

It came out exactly as it went in, but it smelt of blood.

Oh, my God.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's pretty disgusting.

Was there any embers in there?

Was there any fire in there?

Was there any embedded bread?

Yeah, but they put some wet Hessian sap in there and that basically put the fire out.

So basically what they did is just buried the lamb in a hole and then dug it out again and it was very disappointing.

Yeah, they exhumed a lamb, basically.

They wouldn't give him a job in my restaurant.

I wouldn't.

I wouldn't.

He wouldn't get a gig.

It was like to wash the pots.

No, that doesn't sound very good.

No, no, no.

If you want to bury a roux or something like that, we can put you in touch with Soft Touch.

Yeah.

Really?

Yeah, yeah.

She'd let you do it in her garden.

Would you want to bury a Roo in Soft Touch's garden?

I'd turn into Gelman then.

Nodding my head, thinking about it, then would I like to bury something in Soft Touch's garden?

Yeah.

I've got to meet Soft Touch first.

I would love it if you met Soft Touch.

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That lamb sounds absolutely amazing.

Yeah, lovely, absolutely lovely.

And as I said, I do like a bit of

cauliflower cheese.

Is that going to be your dream side dish?

I'd probably say that is my dream side dish.

Bring on the cauliflower cheese.

You know, cauliflower cheese.

It's one of those that even my son's girlfriend who you know is not sort of that fond of dairy.

Uh-huh.

No.

The way they went to that.

Not that fond of me.

I love her, I love her to death.

I I really like all my kids' uh partners actually.

Uh-huh.

Which is really it's a cool thing, isn't it?

Yeah.

I kind of really, really like them.

Even though my um my my Maddie's uh boyfriend is the Spurs and I'm an Arsenal fan.

It doesn't matter.

I like Trist.

I like the bloke, Do you know what I mean?

And the fact that he loves my daughter, loves up my daughter, that's okay.

You know what I mean?

That's okay.

Yeah.

I did tell him the first time I met him that I said, if you mess with my daughter,

you're not going to be our role.

Yeah, you're right, right, right, right.

You know, they've been five years.

What a weird day in that guy's life.

Angela Harriet just said, if I mess with his daughter, I'm not going to be around.

No, no, no, no, no.

Think about it.

He loves going up to the gym.

He's got all the

and he's as big as a.

yeah, yeah, he'll probably take me out in one.

Yeah, you'd need to be packing like a ha a hat a Harry Hammer or something.

No, no,

but you would keep coming back if you're the dad, wouldn't you?

Didn't matter how many times I'm gonna knock you down.

Yeah, you're gonna get it up again.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you see four shows a day

and a rest, yeah, get home and do the cooking and do the gardening, yeah,

and I've got to rub the lamp after that.

Ginger, let's

go,

Oh, lovely.

So the cauliflower cheese.

Cauliflower, yeah.

Cauliflower cheese.

I do like a bit of chouffle polonaise, which is the cauliflower with all that sort of, you know, that crumb and the garlic and the pasty and everything.

I think with the polonise, if I'm not mistaken, I think you actually chop up the egg.

You've got some egg, boiled egg, hard-boiled egg, and you kind of chop it up fine or you grate it, and it comes and it's lovely and it's all all mixed in and that goes on top and there's a lot of buttery crunchiness which I like.

I love textures.

I think textures are really really important.

So I do like that.

But cauliflower cheese as I said it's just just works isn't it and people people just love it and if it's baked right and it comes out and the cauliflower you know you don't want it too hard though.

I don't like when you go to a place the cauliflower is too too firm, too cr it should just be able to go into your mouth and it goes along with your beautiful slow roast lamb and some of those tray juices just drizzled on the top there.

Isn't it lovely?

It's done a lot for cauliflower as well, cauliflower cheese.

People who don't like cauliflower will eat cauliflower cheese.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Huge.

Even a good soup, creme duberry,

my old French training, creme du barry, it's a cauliflower, like a cream cauliflower soup.

Barry's cream.

Dubarry.

All right.

Dubari, creme du barry.

And it's, and it's lovely.

I love it.

I love the texture of it.

I love the flavour of it.

I mean, it is that kind of slightly bitterness, isn't it?

There's a little bit of bitterness in there.

So you need to enhance it.

You need to add something to it.

But boy, lovely.

Love it.

Love it.

Love it.

Ed told me before you got here something that I didn't know about you.

Is it the Calypso twins?

You told me a double up.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, because still, I don't know if I didn't know this, Ainsley.

Still on the wall of the comedy store and I think up the creek there is framed your old publicity shot of you putting your finger all the way through the double up.

They're still up there.

Oh, so every comic he starts like is that is that Adelie Harrow?

Was he in a double up?

I know, but fantastic.

I first started doing that when I went to, oh, I think we went on a train journey, me and my friend Charles, an old school buddy that I'd known since, still one of my greatest friends, lives out in Australia now.

We went on this tour,

Eurorail, I think they called it.

Do you know Eurorail?

And you go around there and we were playing all the, well, every time we went into these

kind of squares and stuff like that.

And we're talking about a time when there was no Euros then.

Everybody, you know, the Austrian had the the austrian shillings the italians had the liro and the french had the franc you know i mean and there was a swiss franc it wasn't like euros for everybody right across the board we went off and did this kind of performing in these squares and of course we'd get all this money in a hat and then we'd go and sit down in these fine restaurants we loved our food and then we pay with all this change

stacks and stacks of coins you know pennies and what have you and a bloody you can see the weight of people looking at us throwing the eyes in the air but um it gave us an opportunity to kind of perfect our skills a little bit and we came back we went and uh did an audition down in covent garden uh he was teaching at the time being a school teacher and there's me working in uh one of the nice hotels in the west end and we'd come together on a saturday afternoon at 2 30 3 o'clock to perform on the cobblestones of covent garden and get you know the equivalent of the money that we got there which I'd have to work all week for that and we did it in half an hour.

What was the act?

What was the Calypso Twins act?

The Calypso Twins Act was a great act.

We'd used to sing.

He was from, he was Greek, and of course, I was Jamaican.

And so we'd write,

well, here we are again.

Oh,

we come to sing, and we don't

really know why.

Looks like time again, no, oh,

the rhythm music will have made you feel so fine.

I am a Greek man, he's Jamaican, cultural differences stood in our way.

I can remember when we both used to say,

Where's my mango?

Where's my musaka?

I like a liquor, rum and meadrich.

Bab Mali, nana maskuri, complications and a constant fury.

Well, here we are.

Oh, it's great that you still remember it.

I can see you click into muscle memory there.

I know, I know.

I'll do the Gelman.

Yeah, yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Full Gelman.

You're absolutely Gelman.

So did you do the comedy clubs as well?

Oh, God, yeah.

Yeah, we did the

comedy store.

We did lots of Jongleurs.

Yeah.

Because Jongleurs was the big club at the time.

And we used to go down to the, oh, what was the one that Malcolm Hardy did?

The Tunnel Club was before.

Tunnel Club.

The Tunnel Club was Malcolm Club.

He had a tragic death, wasn't it?

Fantastic the way he went there.

He used to get a boat and he used to live across the lake.

And he got so pissed one night, he got in the boat, fell in the river, and that was the end of it.

And all the comics that got together was just the humour and everything, the way we embraced the love of Malcolm Hardy.

And only Malcolm could have done that.

Falling in the water, you know, sadly, no one was there.

I remember Joe Brand telling a story about him in Edinburgh and he was doing his show.

And there was a reviewer in who'd given him a really bad review.

And he said he was going to do a magic trick.

He asked the guy to get on stage and chose the reviewer and said, Sir, would you join me on stage?

and gave him a plank of wood to hold.

He said, Right, just hold that with both hands, and then he kicked him in the balls.

My favorite bit is he used to say, In or out, and we'd say, in or out, and of course, he'd take out his uh, take do the joke with his testicles out, yeah, or in.

So, but it

they were massive, they looked like eggs, you know,

In or out, he'd say, in or out, or in or out, in or out, or again, get him out, get him out, and he'd take them out, and he'd play a harmonica with his

just like, my God.

And it's so bizarre, so weird.

And this really is

what comedy was all about.

People talk about alternative comedy.

That's what made alternative comedy.

It was the bizarreness of it.

You didn't know what was going to happen.

Yeah.

So when you did Calypso Twins, Ed there, he really loved it when you said the,

was it he like a mango and me and Musaka?

Yes, yes.

I love that.

Was that always the big first big laugh of the set?

Would that always get a big

I kind of I think there was loads of different things.

There was sometimes we just walk out onto stage and every crowd was different.

And so you walk out there and you just have a bit of bit of fun.

You wanted that first laugh.

It's like everybody.

It's like, you know, it's like a footballer wanting that first touch to be assured and then to lay it off.

Or that rugby player to catch the ball perfectly and be able to lay it off.

Just little things, the first thing that you do, then you kind of feel a little bit all right, I'm up for this now.

So that first laugh was important.

And I used to do various things.

I'd walk out there, and in the time, everybody was still sort of putting the old gel or, you know,

or the brilliant cream or something.

And I'd go back and I'd look at her, going,

I see you found more than one use for KY jelly.

And he was,

you know, and they'd be a little bit shocked, but it'd get a little bit of a laugh.

And it'd get us into the rhythm.

Dream drink.

Yes.

Dream drink.

You've already hinted that you like

a bit of wine, but you've rum's got a mention as well.

I do like a Pinot Noir.

Yeah,

my whiskey.

If I'm out with me agent, it's going to be a martini, gin martini,

extra dry.

And I didn't know what extra dry meant, you know, but what they actually do is they put the vermouth on top of the ice and they shake it and then they pour the vermouth on, and then they put the gin onto the ice then, and then they pour it out.

You know, so it's it's see, it's really, really dry, it's just a hint of it, it's just touched it.

Yeah, I don't know what happens to that vermouth, but it doesn't matter.

And it goes in there, four olives, no twist of lemon or anything, no lemon.

That again, lemon is a killer, yeah.

Lemon, were there lemonade?

You like lemon.

No, I love it.

It's in the right custody, you've slain it off twice.

You know, you talk about like a strawberry daiquiri or something like that.

Yeah.

Strawberry dack.

What do you got?

You've got your loads of ice, you've got your strawberry on top, you've got your lime juice, you know, two limes, one lemon squeezed on there, you've got your sugar on there, you've got your rum on there, little bit of

soda water.

And you pour it out.

My God.

Oh, was that the blender?

I thought Donald Duck was making it.

I'll give you Donald Duck.

I'll give you.

Keeky boy.

Oh, no way.

Bucks him, bucks him, lick him one.

Anyway, um.

Martini's a great choice, though.

Martini is, I think, when you walk in and you want it, it's

there's something very clean about a spirit drink.

People who really like a drink, they're normally the spiriters.

They're not the beer and stuff like that.

You can do loads of pints and and he's just, you know, you're just swelling up and you're going to loo all the time and you don't know what you're we in really, quite frankly.

But it's,

and nothing, nothing wrong with that, but the real drinkers, the spirit drinkers, very steady.

And quite often, they don't get completely plastered, if you know what I mean.

They're just, they're very steady with it.

And I think there's,

I know a few people like that, even some family members.

My

uncle Alan, who's still alive.

Uncle Alan used to come around all Christmas and birthdays and stuff.

What would you like to drink?

said vodka and orange, don't tell the wife.

And he put me, she thought he was drinking orange all the time.

Vodka and Orange, don't tell the wife.

And Aunt Penny would go, oh, I'm loving orange juice.

Oh, yes, my Alan is drinking orange juice.

No wonder him so fit.

Don't tell the wife.

The amount of vodka was in there.

It was unbelievable.

But talk about that generation and

old people.

I don't want to really let you go today without talking about Hello Jill.

Why, hello, Jill.

I know.

What?

Oh, poor Jill's checked out now.

You know, lesser.

Oh, okay.

Well, I didn't know that.

And there was me and, of course, Alison.

And then this little lady sitting in between us on the sofa.

Do you remember that?

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

Craig James just wet himself last night.

Not only do we remember it, Ainsley, we talk about it, I'd say, at least three times a week.

We love watching it.

My favourite thing to watch on YouTube.

I love the way that you come into the room.

Really?

Yep, and you sneak past the door like that, and you close the door behind you.

That's funny.

Hello, James.

I do remember that.

And they gave her a brand new TV.

She was so small, wouldn't she?

Yeah.

And she was there, and there's me out in the kitchen, in Jewel's kitchen, and trying to make her this surprise meal and stuff.

And I'm going for it.

And every drawer that I open up, there's a packet of of fags.

Or,

more importantly, there's about three or four packets that are empty.

You know, those people just keep them, they think, I might be, might find something in there one day.

And they've got these empty packs.

Every time I'm looking for something, oh, god, no, no, no, no, go this one.

I'll go to the bottom one, open it like that, and it would be like something like sobrani or something like that.

You know, weird fags that you only smoke at Christmas.

You know, I mean,

bless her.

I love an old lady who smokes.

Yeah, great.

My great-grandma, we bought her a 90 for her birthday once.

And the next time we went over there, the nightie was on her bed and had a massive fag hole burn in her.

And we didn't know she smoked.

She's like, oh, yeah, she took it out when she was 75 because I have a cigarette

every night.

Terrifying, the most dangerous time to have a cigarette.

The only thing that would have made Hello Jill better is if she was smoking when you came in and the fan was so much smell.

She did sneak off for her fan.

She did.

Yeah, bless us.

She liked her little fan.

She went off and they're gone when, you know, when there was a break, you know, we'll be, you know, you send it back to Eamon and Rooms in the studio.

She's off having her a little fag and little brownie fingers.

Fantastic.

Why, hello, Jill.

She had no idea.

Let's talk about that moment, actually, because like...

Talk about that moment because you're outside of Jill's, you're waiting to come into Jill's living room.

they've handed you a frying pan.

Did you know that you were going to deliver it like that?

Was it?

I had no idea.

I had no idea because they're standing there now, and then they're going,

wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Go, go, like that.

All the signs, you know, you have all the kind of people standing on the side.

Then you go in because they're now the camera's in the right position.

Yeah.

And I think Alison has got Jill to sit down.

Yeah.

So it's kind of, it gives me an entrance.

Yeah.

And when I walk it, I want to piss myself laughing laughing

because Allison's about four times the size of Jill.

She's nearly disappearing.

Like,

why, hello, Jill?

And Alison's looking at me and I'm looking at Alwyn like,

you know, this is a good kick.

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Let's get on to this.

It says dream dessert.

We've rounded off the meal.

What are you thinking?

Do you know hard to get to dessert because I'm so

as we've explained throughout this it's when you have all these interesting little bits that come with everything and more importantly if you get the correct type of bread at the beginning of the meal it really does it's just it's it's it's seduction time isn't it you just give yourself over to it because it's so so beautiful Um, but if you do have room for a dessert, even though I'm a I do like a little bit of cheese, but we've already done the cracker thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Feel free if you want cheese,

I don't want cheese.

I do like a little bit of cheese.

Normally, cheese is one of those things that I nick from somebody else's plate, or just have a little bit of a clean.

You know, that little bit of something that a little nuggets.

I know you're miming that, but I'm just going to move my cheese away.

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

That's why I love a little bit nibble or I love a little cheese nibble.

And I think for me, it's probably bread and butter pudding.

Oh, lovely.

Now,

the late, great Gary Rhodes probably did the finest bread and butter pudding ever.

It was unique.

I think he was

one of the early chefs that cooked it in a bath.

So it was, you know, it's a bath of water, so you sit down in it.

That's not what James was imagining.

Yeah, obviously I was imagining a bathtub.

Also, I'm pretty sure I saw on TV Gary Rhodes making a bread and butter pudding.

Like when you said that just then, it really triggered quite a vivid memory of watching it on TV

and it looking so good that I could taste it watching it.

I remember it being a really, like, Gary Rose, one of the first TV chefs

and, like, really found engaging.

I love the way he used to speak and, like, just the tone of his voice.

The ASMRI, actually, in a way, in Gary Rhodes.

But, like, yeah, bread and butter pudding.

Don't reduce it to your

stuff.

And he had hand.

and you should put that in there and the flavour and all that and he should give it all that

yeah

and he kind of uh he released he gave the uh

it i think it's one of the first sort of young chefs that came onto tv that just inspired the youth out there think oh i look like i've got spiky hair i can do that do you know what i mean it wasn't that set thing and he didn't have that straight chef's hat on he kind of just took us in another direction and uh he was enormous and um his agent borrow who's a friend of mine you know we often talk about him and um you know it was gary just set standards is unbelievable.

I think just towards the end, it became a little bit like food started to change so much, and people became a lot more relaxed.

It wasn't all about that ideal presentation, it was the casualness of it.

But if the produce was good and the flavours were right, it really didn't matter.

But his bread and butter pudding was to absolutely die for.

A little bit of creme anglaise.

I don't mind if it's just straightforward old British custard, but creme on glaise kind of complemented it, I think.

Lovely infusion of vanilla going through it, and you know, just a nice, creamy, rich texture.

Did you need it?

I don't know if you needed it because that bread and butter pudding with a little bit of slight brush of apricot glaze on top of it was just like it was just sublime.

I don't know about you, I find it really satisfying that the idea of a hot pud, don't you?

I remember when I was doing my

Food We Love series, and I one of the most popular things on there was my strawberry coconut sponge.

You know how you got at school, you've got that sponge, and

they put the strawberry jam on top of it, excuse me, and then they sprinkled it with the coconut.

And you just have a wedge of that with a bit of custard.

And it's just so satisfying, especially in winter.

Do you know what I mean?

But Gary's BB pudding was just like,

it's just like.

You've gone somewhere else while you're thinking about it.

Yeah, because it was,

I'm getting emotional now.

He was amazing.

mate, you know, and he was

and he was a bloody fine chef.

And he had, uh, yeah, we kind of miss him.

And he went too early.

And the company that I'm working for now were actually filming with him at the time when he checked out.

I went to his hotel room and had that tragedy.

And I did the lovely

thing, you know, the farewell, that lovely, I voiced over the, you know, I narrated that show just to say thanks, mate, because he was special.

Special, even though he supported Man United.

Yeah, I'm a goona.

I know you play better football than us.

I don't care.

With those TV chefs at the time, would you go around each other's houses for meals then?

Occasionally, it's quite difficult because, you know, the industry, especially when we're all at our POM, let's ready, study, cook stuff, running restaurants.

We're doing stuff.

We're going from one place to another.

When do you have it?

The only time you do it is when you go to their restaurant.

And at the the end they come out and they sit round with you when most people have gone home.

I remember something like when I go down to Reigate to see my mate, the dining room, Tony Tobin, who was a mate, still a pal of mine.

And we'd go there, and I remember George Best being in the corner because he lived in the area having his thing, and he'd be the last one staying in there.

And we'd go over and have drinks with him and late, late, late.

And

that's the time you got to see them.

That's the time they could actually switch off.

Yeah.

But to actually go to their homes, I think I,

one occasion I went to Gino's house Gino DiCampo's house I

even though

Gordon Ramsey's my neighbour he literally lives across the road I don't think Gordon's there very much he's made such a success of his life in the States that he goes out there no I went out for meals with Gary and when he okay we went out

You know, you're used to cooking all the time.

You want to go out and let somebody else do it.

So did Gary make you the bread and butter pudding ever himself or you got it from his restaurant?

No, you have to, no, i have to go to his restaurant yeah yeah have to go to the restaurant it's uh i never actually went round to his amazing house in kent yeah he had this fantastic house in kent but then he went to went to live in dubai

but uh anyway so uh let's on a positive note yes his his dessert was his food was fantastic i'm just trying to think yeah i do there was a few chefs i go to their house but some of them you wouldn't probably know uh i did go to anthony war thompson's house oh yeah I did go to his house on many, many of occasions.

Yeah, I imagine that to me.

When he's dining in a small house like a hobbit.

He's a circular door.

Yeah.

And Ainsley's got to stoop to get in, like Gandalf.

Here's a question.

Who's bigger?

Anthony Warrell Thompson or Jill?

Yes.

Good question.

Very good question.

Bigger is definitely AWT.

Yeah.

AWT.

She's bigger than Jill.

Oh, he's bigger than Jill.

I mean, Jill was tiny, wouldn't she?

She really never was bigger.

She was tiny, but...

Two of these six foot four black people sitting on the the sofa with her.

She just disappeared.

Do you know what I mean?

It was, it was like a,

what's that?

I think it's a commercial on TV, but it was based on a film where you just go down the back of the sofa.

You disappeared down the back of the sofa.

Yes, Ainsley, there is an advert where someone slides down the back of the sofa, and it's for a second-hand car app called Kazoo.

Don't need to be stars for Ainsley, but I do the voiceover for that app.

And say it for Ainsley.

Kazoo, yeah, you can.

We love you.

I really love you.

I really love you.

I do recognise you.

There you go.

You're welcome.

Kazoo, you can.

Kazoo, you can.

In your face, eh?

I love me.

Get that van in there.

Kazoo, you can.

Don't say it too much, Ainsley, otherwise it'll hire you instead.

I know, no, I know, I know, I know, I know.

Ainsley, I'm going to read your menu back to you, see how you feel about it.

Okay.

You want still water in a beautiful glass, no lemon, no cucumber, no nothing in it.

Popping on some bread with like a warm bread selection with olive oil and rock salt.

Starter.

Robin Rock Salt.

Robin Rock Salt.

Rock, rock, rock, rock.

I'm just doing a Gelman.

Gelmut?

Starter, tuna tartare, caviar, diced avocado, caramel rice, chili ring from the four seasons.

Main, slow cooked lamb.

And you gotta get the anchovies and the garlic in there.

Side, cauliflower cheese.

Drink, a gin martini, four olives, extra dry, and dessert, Gary Rhodes, bread and butter pudding.

Oh yes, that sounds fantastic.

Ainsley, look,

we've been doing this podcast for a while now.

We've done like over 100 episodes.

We've been interviewed about it every now and again and people ask us who our dream guest is.

Every time we've said you and

every single time we have said Ainsley Harriet is our dream guest.

I think I can speak for all three of us.

We were quite nervous going into this because we were like, this is the big one and we

really built it And also, here's the alarm.

Now, go, go, go, go.

Have we imagined it to

have we overbuilt it?

You have exceeded our expectations.

This has been exactly what we always hoped it would be.

And thank you so much for that because we've really enjoyed ourselves.

Oh, that's so nice of you guys.

But

coffee's still shit.

Well, there we are.

The off-menu menu of Ainsley Harriet.

Everything we could have hoped for, James.

Oh, man.

I mean,

talk about all your Christmases coming at once.

Yeah.

I feel so happy.

I got everything that I wanted out of that.

Absolutely everything.

He was brilliant.

He was wonderful.

He was really good fun.

He talked to us for ages.

What a guy.

It was in person for the first time in a year and a bit.

In person, as per his request.

Yeah.

And, you know, I was a little nervous boy going into it.

Hadn't seen anyone in person for 10 years.

And he was so great.

He bullied Benito immediately, said his food was shit.

And I was like, this guy.

This guy gets it.

I knew it.

Yeah, this guy gets it.

He really did get it.

He didn't say Sammy Sardines.

We didn't have to kick him out of the dream restaurant.

He said anchovies.

Yeah.

Close.

Anchovies are fine because those bones melt.

Yeah, those bones melt.

And that's what I like.

What an episode.

It's up there for me.

When we recorded it afterwards, I thought, ah, that's up there for me.

Oh, I was giddy.

It's up there for me, too.

There's a few that are up there on the Mount Rushmore off-menu.

Yeah, get the chisel.

We're putting a new face on.

Yeah, I'm trying to think what the Mount Rushmore's made of.

Meringue?

Cheese.

Chisel meringue is just going to shatter, isn't it?

Cheese.

Cheese.

Yes, cheese.

Yes.

I actually let you have that one.

Ainsley's book, Good Mood Food or Good Mood Food or Good Mood Food, depending on how you pronounce it, out on September the 9th.

Go and get it.

That guy's a legend.

Go and get it.

You've got to go and get it.

And listen to this episode every time you cook something from it.

Yes.

Listen to all the songs.

Yeah.

All of the songs.

Oh, man.

Oh, the songs.

The stories of

Ready Steady Cook.

Hello, Jill.

I feel like we should start doing the old Calypso Twins double act, but...

replace things with like, I like cheese and he likes desserts.

It's not as good as Musaka Mango, is it?

Yeah, let's just keep the original lyrics.

Yeah, okay.

They make less sense.

Yeah.

Or, I did think afterwards, the only person I know who is of Jamaican and Greek descent is Jamali Maddox.

So I think we could contact Jamali and ask him if he would just like that song and just sing on his own.

He could just do it himself.

Yes.

Well, I like Musaka and I like mango.

Yeah, I like both of them.

They're nice.

I actually do like both of them, but there's no...

Yeah, I like both of them from Kevin.

there's no sort of heritage reasons for me to sing about it, really.

Yeah, I don't have a way into it, material-wise.

It wouldn't really make sense for you to go on.

Well, actually, people would definitely buy that off you.

You could go on.

I love mango and I love Musaka.

People will be like, he's a genius.

This guy's a genius.

Called Musaka, Hate Myself, 1999.

No, no.

Cold Musaka, Hate Myself, mango, mango, mango.

Um, That's not a show that James is touring, but I am touring a show called Electric.

And who knows, I may do that song at the end.

Come and see me.

Check out my website, edgamble.co.uk, for tickets.

It starts in February 2022.

Amazing.

We've got merch, off-menu, merch, on the off-menu website, which is off-menupodcast.co.uk.

Yes, it is.

Well done, James.

Yeah, go and grab yourself a little tea, a little tote bag.

So thanks for listening today.

We had such a blast.

Do come back next week for another episode of The Off-Menu Pod K-Sed.

See you later.

Keep your tums full and your mouths open.

If you enjoyed this podcast, can I interest you in a totally different podcast that's not about food and doesn't have James A Caster or Ed Gamble, but I would say is quite fun.

No, thank you.

Oh, okay, not to worry.

If you change your mind at a later date, it's called Nobody Panic.

Right.

It's hosted by me, Tessa Coates, and my friend Stevie Martin.

Which is weirdly me.

And we tackle all kinds of how-tos from big things to small things.

How to stop saying sorry, how to poo, how to break up with someone, how to quit your job, how to relax, how to have a conversation, how to deal with unrequited love.

A smorgasbord of thing.

Absolutely.

We have a nice time.

People seem to like it.

If you like, you can come and see what all the fuss is about.

All that fuss.

What's it called?

Nobody panic.

You can find it on all of the podcast apps that you would imagine it would be on.

Please have a listen.

Oh, hello, it's Amy Gladhill here.

Hello, I'm Harriet Kemsley.

Single ladies is coming to London.

Well, we're already in London, I suppose, in a way, but we're doing a live show, aren't we?

It's true on Saturday, the 13th of September at 7 p.m.

at King's Place.

So we've got your Saturday night sorted.

We've done all the organising for you.

Come along, have some drinks, alcoholic or non-alcoholic, both are available.

And you can get your tickets from plursive.co.uk.

Or just head to the link in our Instagram bio and just clickety click click.

London, we're coming.