Ep 68: Gok Wan

James, huge news from the world of off-menu and indeed the world of the world.

Yes.

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I have.

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The show will be on Monday, the 16th of March.

It's going to be a tasting menu, a returning guest coming back, receiving the menu of another previous guest.

Those shows have been a lot of fun.

We cannot wait to do them live.

Who will we pull out of our little magic bag?

You'll have to come along on the 16th of March to find out.

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Pre-sale tickets are 10th of September at 10 a.m.

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Get your tickets from royalalberthall.com or offmenupodcast.co.uk.

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Hello, it's Ed Gamble here from the podcast that you're currently listening to.

My name is James Acaster.

You are also currently listening to the podcast where I am from, is?

Yes, and we have merch.

How exciting.

Official off-menu merch.

We have four different t-shirts designed by four different brilliant artists.

They're all individual, wonderful pieces of art.

We also have tote bags.

We also have mugs.

I love them.

James?

Do we have tea towels?

We do have tea towels.

So you can be drinking a cup of tea out of an off-menu mug.

You can spill a bit of that tea.

You can mop it up with a tea towel.

Then you can

have a t-shirt on.

And then take it all off, put it in a bag.

Personally, I would use the tea towel to dry the mug up after I've washed it.

I wouldn't really be cleaning up spillages with the tea towel.

I mean, that's just in my household.

I don't want to.

People can use the tea towel for whatever they want.

I mean, it's fine.

Frame it.

Frame it.

Yeah.

Wear it.

Actually,

wear it.

Kiss it.

Kiss it.

So all our merch is kissable and you can buy it on offmenupodcast.co.uk.

Welcome to the Off Menu Podcast, the podcast that's been marinated for 24 hours in humour and good times.

My name is Ed Gamble.

Goku's Easy Asian coming to the food network.

Okay, James has got excited because we need to do a plug for our guests that we've got on today, but he's forgotten to do all the rest of the information.

Now, James, remember, you need to say who you are.

We need to say what the podcast is.

We need to say who our guest is, and then maybe what that sort of thing that they're going to be talking about.

So, should we try again?

My name's Ed Gamble.

My name is James Acaster.

Welcome to the Off Menu Podcast, where we ask a different guest their favourite ever, starter, main course, dessert, side dish, and drink.

And this week's guest is the magnificent Gokuan.

Gokuan.

Gokuan, of course, wonderful broadcaster,

chef,

fashion expert, all of these things.

He's been on our screens for many, many years.

And he actually has a brand new food show on the food network.

And it's called, James.

James?

Yes.

What's it called?

Gokuan's Easy Agent.

Easy Agent.

So that's very exciting.

He's got that coming up, but he has agreed to be a guest in the Dream Restaurant.

And this episode is one of our lockdown episodes.

Recorded over the net.

Unfortunately, however much we like Gokuan, if he says a secret ingredient, he will be removed from the restaurant, James.

And what is the secret ingredient this week?

It is sweet bread.

Sweet bread.

We don't know what they are, really.

I think they're like organy bits, maybe.

Bonito suggested it.

Bonito suggested it.

So we just went with Bonito's suggestion.

He said it was full of guts and stuff is what he said.

It's like offal, isn't it?

Is it offal?

Is it like an organ or something?

Well, I've had them before and I like them, but that doesn't say much because I would eat an entire animal, bones and all.

Yes, you do like that kind of stuff.

Ed orders brains and things like that from restaurants, but I think for me, the sweetbread might be a little bit too much.

So

I'm going to green light the sweetbread as the secret ingredient this week.

Okay, so if he says sweetbread, he's out on his ear.

Hopefully he won't because we're very excited to have him here.

This is the off-menu menu of Gokwan.

Gokwan!

Welcome, Gokuan, to the Dream Restaurant.

Very exciting.

Welcome, Gokuan.

We've been expecting you for some time.

Thank you.

I'm a bit gutted actually, because most restaurants that I go to, you at least get a bowl of nuts or a welcome drink.

I mean, nothing.

No one's taken my coat.

There was no matrix D at the door.

This place is smelling a bit musty.

Well, because it's the dream restaurant, Gok, so it is a sort of, it's a recreation of something that's coming from in your brain.

So if it smells musty, it's very much you who's created the smell, unfortunately.

There's a lot of psychology going on there, wasn't there?

I mean, I've already created this bad place for me to go and eat.

Bad place.

Well, thank you for having us in my dream restaurant.

We don't take people's coats here, Gok.

You may have noticed I put an extra coat on you.

So now you have two coats on.

Just layering me out nice and toasty for the dream meal

what kind of food do you like just before like if there's a little bit of complimentary stuff on the table what are you crossing your fingers for uh well i always got taught by dad because dad my dad owned restaurants i don't know if you're aware of this so i kind of grew up in catering and so we always knew that the saltier the good when you walk in the more alcohol people drink yeah to you know give them a lot of salty snacks and so i'm you know i'm no stranger to a salted peanut i'm no stranger to a chili cashew So I'm thinking something like that, something that's going to start the conversation in my mouth.

I don't want a flaccid, a placid conversation.

I want something that's going to start, you know, this is starch all evening.

So with a bit of spice.

I do love a poppadom, it has to be said.

I do love a poppadom.

I don't like the lime pickle.

I'm going to be very honest.

I'm a bit of a reiterator.

I like the reiterate.

I like the raw onion.

So yes, there's something like that, something very snackable.

So, you want something to start the conversation in your mouth, but what is it about the lime pickle chat that you don't want in there?

Oh, I mean, that's an argument before you've even started.

Before you've even met the guests that night, you've already had an argument in your mouth, way too much going on.

You know,

I still want to be the person leading the conversation, and so you know, the writer, even the onion, even she is, you know, she knows when she needs to speak, and so because of that, whereas the lime pickle is basically me, I am the lime pickle.

I see.

And I don't want to be having an argument with myself.

So if you think of all the little condiments in the sort of pop-adom tray

as guests in themselves,

the lime pickle is too similar to you for you to want to have dinner with.

Absolutely.

I wouldn't want to have dinner with me.

You know, loud,

eat too much, bossy, controlling, you know, all of that kind of thing.

I mean, my friends do come for dinner with me.

You know, they're forced to come.

I pay them to come for dinner with me.

But yeah, no,

it's a funny one, isn't it?

Because, you know, food is such a massive representation of our personalities.

And I do like big flavours and I do like big moments in cooking as well.

But actually, my preference to food would always be far more subtle, would be far blander.

You know, if I'm cooking for myself, etc.

Very interesting.

I had never considered that before.

What kind of restaurant did your dad own?

So it was very much the 80s.

So there were family run restaurants.

You know, it was the, you know, the slightly rounded wine glasses with the napkin that had been pointed and folded up and put inside.

You know, they were very, very small and family run in Leicester, but they were, you know, the nicest, most hospitable, the most caring, the funniest places you could go to.

Dad is an incredible host.

You know, he loves cooking, he loves food, but he's actually an incredible host as well.

So he always created a beautiful environment where everybody was welcome and he'd be smiling and laughing.

And, you know, he knew all the customers by their first names.

And in fact, he taught me

an incredible skill that I've used in every part of my life as a stylist and as a TV presenter, which is that he remembered ailments of people.

So we'd be standing at the front of the front reception to the restaurant.

And it was a converted Victorian house.

It was that small.

And the whole ground floor was the restaurant.

The first front room was turned into a bar.

Then two large rooms, and you can imagine a Victorian terrace, two large rooms were then knocked into the main dining area with probably a maximum of 10 or 11 tables in, and then a kitchen out the back with a store and everything else.

And so it was very intimate.

And so we would stand at the front of the Victorian entrance, and there was a pathway that walked into the house.

And as we'd be standing there, both of us, hands behind our backs, and I still walk like that now.

If I'm going out shopping, I still walk with my hands behind my back,

a little bit like a wise ninja as I'm going around the shops.

And as a customer would walk up, he'd say to me, John, just got divorced, bad back.

And as soon as

he walked in, he would go, Hey, John, how are you?

Coping all right, how's the back?

It was just the most incredible business technique that he did.

You know, because if you think about it, you're going out for supper and somebody sometimes says, Do you need an extra cushion for your back?

You're like, You're there all night drinking, getting hammered the whole night.

And so, yeah, so they were incredible spaces, these restaurants were.

And I have such fond memories, not only of the food, but the customers and the staff.

And, you know, they were our safe place growing up.

Ed, as our maitre D at this restaurant, do you have a similar technique for remembering business names?

What's my name, Ed?

Yeah, yeah.

But all I can do is whisper to James, this is Gok.

He doesn't like lime pickle.

That's all I've got.

He's in my pocket.

Yeah.

You don't know any of your ailments, unfortunately, Gok, so

bad back.

Gout,

always a good one.

Everyone's got some form of gout, so if he's going to hazard a guess, just generally

Sophie, gout.

Also, because each episode, the dream restaurant is whatever the guest wants it to be, whatever their dream is.

And earlier, you mentioned a conversation happening in your mouth.

Would you like the dream restaurant to take place inside your mouth?

And our conversation, but we're having right now is we're literally sitting on your tongue and having a big chat inside your own mouth.

I don't know where this conversation is going to, but I like it.

That's the honest truth.

Yes.

I'm just going to say yes to all of that.

You kind of went on to,

you went into a little space of imagining there, didn't you?

Yes.

I mean, you were there.

You were invested.

That's going to happen.

Yeah.

So, do you know what?

Just because I don't want to take the delight out of your eyes, I'm going to say yes to all of that.

Yes, we're going to make that happen.

It's more of a fever dream restaurant now.

Well, I imagine sitting on Gok's tongue.

Yeah, but we can do that.

How's Gock going to sit in his own mouth?

Yeah.

Hard.

That's tricky, isn't it?

but i'm still i i i mean you know i i've only known you for a few minutes got but already i've got in my head that you're you're a scraper you're a tongue scraper i can tell you think sitting on this tongue it looks so clean do you know i am actually a tongue i am a scraper a tongue scraper yeah it's true it's very cleanest restaurant you ever sit in yes it will be sparkling although if we are in gock's mouth head then while gock is eating are we going to be covered in the food um well we have to you should have thought this through really, Ed.

But here's my other problem with it.

We have to make the food in Gok's mouth and then

feed it to Gok, or do we give it to Gok and then Little Gok puts the food in his mouth?

Oh, there's a Little Gok now, then.

Well,

you're in your own mouth.

I mean, the thing is, you're just now creating characters in my restaurant, and that's kind of not allowed.

Yeah, it doesn't seem fair.

Yeah, it doesn't seem fair.

Okay, I'll get rid of Little Gok.

I think we should just take dinner out of my mouth.

I'm I'm regretting ever saying that I want a conversation with the lime pickle or not.

But though, just for the sake of argument, if we were sitting in your mouth having this conversation and you're eating, if we're making the food there, me and Ed have made the food in your mouth and we serve it to you, are you gonna put it in your little gock mouth or are you gonna just chuck it down the throat?

So not even put it in your are you just gonna throw the plate down the down your own throat because you're in there anyway, or are you gonna eat it in your mouth there?

So before i answer that question i'm going to ask you a question yes have you had much human contact in the last four months no i've just a question yeah in the last few years i haven't got i mean

james has been in lockdown for about a decade yeah

for everyone's good um do you know what in my mind i mean we are creating this slightly psychedelic hallucinate hallucinogenic dream aren't we i mean it's kind of there i i'm kind of imagining actually the blue meanies and the and the beatles i'm kind of i'm seeing the yellow submarine right now.

This is this kind of weird space.

That meets Tim Burton, modern day.

And so I'm thinking probably little Gok would be

a,

I can't believe I'm saying that.

Would probably be able to taste the food is all I'm saying.

So, Gok, also, we'd like to mention that

you've got a brand new series on the food network called Goku.

Easy Asian.

Absolutely, which is very exciting.

It's the, I think, my third or my fourth cooking show that I've made.

And it's pretty much what it says on the tin.

It is me teaching you in my kitchen how to make delicious, really, really simple Asian food, but kind of all Southeast Asian foods.

We dip into Malaysia.

We've got some piranha dishes in there.

We've got some, you know, Chinese, Cantonese, Sechuan.

And so lots and lots and lots of different flavours.

And it's a really lovely series.

And we actually made it in lockdown as well.

And so it was all scheduled to happen.

And then, of course, lockdown happened, which I thought then maybe it's not going to happen.

Maybe we won't be able to do it.

But the producers, a woman called Karen, who is incredible, managed to follow all the guidelines.

And we spent a few weeks in my house during lockdown just cooking vast amounts of Asian food.

And it's a really, really lovely series, I have to say.

I mean, it's pure cookery.

It's all cookery and absolutely packed full of stories.

Now, I know you probably find this hard to believe, but I do like to talk.

I do like a chat.

So, there's lots and lots of very funny stories of growing up in the restaurant and stuff that my dad's done over the years, and you know, kind of where food comes from.

It allowed me to show off a little bit and not necessarily show off about stuff that I know, stuff that I feel.

So, I get to show off about my family, which was really important.

If you're cooking just at home for people and it's not part of a TV show, do you like them coming and chatting to you while you're cooking, or do you need peace and quiet?

It depends on the type of dinner party.

So,

I'm a bit of a dinner party addict.

So when we're not in lockdown and we're not living in, I call it COVID soup.

So we're not swinging around in COVID soup.

Then

I throw probably two or three dinner parties a week for different friends.

I often have clients over as well and kind of entertaining and stuff.

And so it depends on the party.

If I'm doing it with friends that I've spent a lot of time chatting to already or we've been for drinks and I kind of know what's going on in their world, they can just come for dinner because I don't need to have all of those chats again.

We're absolutely fine if it's clients i have a very sneaky trick that i do which is i often set up food stations in the kitchen where they can start they'll make their starter before we cook it or they'll add they'll contribute to the food because it kind of breaks the ice a little bit you know that awkward moment when you've got people over and you know you you know you're going to have a wonderful evening but you've got to kickstart it somewhere often the preparation of food will help that and because you're instructing them and you're showing them something then i feel that that's that's quite good so it depends on the party, really, and also depends on the amount of guests.

So, I normally on a Sunday, I'll have between 30 and 40 people over for lunch, and it's a well, it's a standing party.

I know this is the honest truth.

In fact, on Instagram, I posted quite a few pictures off of some of the parties we've had, and I often do a bring-a-dish party.

So, I'll cook six or seven dishes, everyone else brings a dish, I'll design a whole menu so people know whether they're dipping into savoury, into sweet, starter, or main course.

They can kind of choose from that.

They then let me know, I then issue the menu out, they then arrive with their dish, and we set it up like a massive, almost Harry Potter-style platter room.

And you're so excited!

Sounds incredible!

I'm so impressed.

It is.

Check Instagram, and you'll see you'll see one of the last ones that I did.

And they're very messy, they get very drunk.

And also, I'm a DJ, and I've got all my decks in the kitchen.

So, I literally, it just turns into this kind of like slight Glastonbury kind of food, kind of festival in the kitchen.

They're lots of fun, Ed.

Yes.

If you did a party around your house and you got to to invite 40 people, who would they be?

Go.

I can only think of about six people I'd want to invite to my house.

Sure,

40 people.

You can't like all of them, Gok.

There must be like at least 10 of them.

You're like, oh, I wish they weren't coming.

Oh, do you know?

I adore all of them.

I collect my friends like action figures.

You know, I literally like...

Always, they're also in a glass cabinet from the 70s, just in a room.

No, I'm very, very lucky.

I'm very blessed.

I've got the most incredible set of friends, and we're all friends together.

And we all, you know, everyone knows each other independently as well.

And so, yeah, they're quite legendary, these, these, these parties, I have to say.

So, they're very good friends as well.

I have a lot of close friends who I like very much, but I reckon if I invited them around my house for a meal and then I started DJing, they would just make fun of me.

I've got a lot of friends who are kind of bullies.

Yeah, like Nish and Ed would just like make fun of me if I just started DJing at my house, wouldn't you?

Yeah, because that would be madness.

I wouldn't make fun of you.

Yeah, no, I'd take it from Gok, for sure.

Absolutely.

If you go to Goku's house and he's cooking and there's 40 dishes and he starts spinning some vinyl, I'd be like, I'm on board with that.

If I went to James Acaster's flat and he started playing his weird music off his iPod, I'm not having that.

That's true, actually.

James, I would support you.

I'm going to say it.

You know what?

I'd probably even clear up as well.

So I'd support you.

I'd be the perfect guest.

You're welcome over any time for a can of cookies.

Thank you very much.

still a sparkling water cock definitely definitely still i like spark i've got a soda stream that i love by the way i'm a bit of a soda stream fan and i and my drink of choice is uh sparkling water vodka and lime cordial so that is my drink of choice and so that so that comes in very handy there um but at dinner definitely still water and always tap water oh i've got working class roots and i kind of think to myself do you know what actually that's and that's good enough.

I don't need big bottles of fancy water and all that kind of thing.

I'm quite happy with tap water.

I like the taste of tap water.

I don't mind it either.

When people are like, oh, you live in a hardwater area or it ruins the taste, it's like, no, that tastes good to me.

I can take the title.

Here's a question for you, Ed.

Cool.

Is there a directory to tell you where the hardwater areas are, or are they just assuming you live in a hardwater area?

I think

you can log on to a website and you can put your postcode in, and it tells you if you live in a hard water area.

And that is true.

I did it the other day.

Don't you?

Have you not had very much human contact either?

Absolutely not.

I'm really scraping the barrel for entertainment now.

I was checking to see how hard my water is.

Lovely.

Dr.

was saying earlier, your new TV show is you're at home cooking.

You just said you would like some tap water.

What kind of taps you got in your kitchen?

A bug standard mixer tap.

It's a deep white basin double sink with a mixer tap in the centre.

I'm picturing a handle for the mixer tap, or is it like two different ones and you get it balanced?

It's a handle.

It's a mixer tap handle.

One handle and you can move it left and right.

Up and down, up for hot, down for cold.

And then the pressure is when you pull it away from yourself.

So say that we are making you a glass of water for your dream meal.

Making me a glass of water.

You don't use very much, do you, James?

i'm gonna get it right and

we're cooking you a lovely water yeah and i'm using your mixer tap yeah where exactly do you want me to be to get the perfect temperature of water for you whereabouts if you're picturing the tap what am i doing you're all the way down so you're all the way down you are pulling the lever downwards yeah then you're pulling it out and that would be the perfect yeah perfect it's quite a high pressure tap so be careful don't get wet oh i tell you what i've got a similar situation here in my flat, and I'm still not very good at pouring myself for water without it going everywhere.

I always do too much pressure, and it just goes straight in and out again, and I'm soaked.

In it completely out again.

Who do you live with, James?

My girlfriend.

And does she ever help you with your water?

No,

I actually

keep it a secret from her.

Do you?

She doesn't know that I struggle with the water tap.

Are you afraid that she may dump you if she finds out that you can't work the mixer tap?

I've been dumped for less.

How have you?

Oh, yeah.

James, just so you know, I would never dump you.

Thank you, Gock.

Just so you know.

I'm just throwing it out there.

I mean, already in this show, Gok's like the best friend I've ever had.

He would let me DJ.

Yeah.

He'd never dumped me.

Ever.

I think she knows that you struggle with the water, James, because every time you nip out to get a glass of water, you come back and you're absolutely soaked head to toe.

I just make out I've been outside and it's raining.

Don't look out the window.

It's raining out there.

Cats and dogs.

Poppadums or bread.

Poppadums or bread.

Gokuan.

Poppadums or bread, even though you've already said popadums out there.

Yeah, interesting.

You're the first guest to ever pip us to the post with that question and get in beforehand.

Good.

Depends on what I'm eating, actually.

So are we talking naan bread?

Any type of bread.

That's a general question.

That's like asking a parent to choose their favourite child because they're both carved based food and I'm a car based person

so i uh

popadom's or i'm not gonna answer and you can't have that in my restaurant i'm so sorry i'm stopping answer it's just too difficult confusing to answer first time that's easy

yeah first time that's ever happened that's great i mean i'm completely happy to roll with that as well yeah

not answering

i'm not i'm i refuse to choose which child i love the most yes that's fair enough so does that mean you're having both or you're having neither because you don't want to make the choice or both, you're having both, right?

Okay, yeah, I'm having both, but I would never choose.

I'd never say to Poppadom, oh, I actually am preferring the bread tonight.

I'd never say to bread, actually, Poppadom's literally killing it tonight.

And so, I'd never be like that.

I mean, I would give them equal love and adoration.

With the poppadoms, do you want us to put them on your decks and they spin around, and you can take little hats off as they spin around?

Yeah, 100%.

And you know, as soon as I get off of this podcast, I'm going to try that.

Just so you can see that if you see a picture suddenly arrive on Instagram at the moment of me literally like sitting out of Scooby-Doo catching a poppadong from the air, you know exactly what the setup is.

I know you don't want to choose between pop-doms or bread, but if you're having both, is there a certain type of bread you would like?

Okay, it's just getting awkward now.

Yeah.

It's getting a bit inappropriate.

And these questions are a bit inappropriate for me.

I do like a mini roll.

I have to say, can't decide which one I want when they offer you whether you want poppy seed, normal seed, plain or onion, all four.

I'll have one of each of these.

I'm not going to decide here.

Maybe an onion bread maybe maybe it has to be an onion bread oh yeah i'm there now and it has to be a roasted onion bread and it has to come with salted butter

and i also put a little pepper a bit bit of pepper on the butter as well it's very nice you've proper seasoned the butter properly yeah yeah you do a little bit of salt rock salt and a tiny bit of black pepper on your onion bread with your butter there you go When you said mini roll, for a minute, I thought you were talking about a Cadbury's mini roll.

And I thought you were trying to sneak in a cake with the breads.

I have been known to take my own food to restaurants just in case there's a delay.

Have you?

That is no word of a lie.

What would you take?

A spring roll, what's your problem?

Before any of us have even vocalized a problem.

Yeah.

Doesn't even know what's wrong with you.

It's a small portion of Charmaine, just a small one.

How would you package it?

Would you conceal it in something so the restaurants don't know you had it?

Absolutely with pride.

So my father, so my father, who is the funniest man I've ever met in my entire life and literally doesn't give two shits about anything.

So they live close to a carvery restaurant where they live in Leicestershire.

And my dad likes a carvery.

He likes the choice of five different meats.

You know, it kind of does it for him.

But he'll always take his very own carton of rice with him to have with his meal.

And he very proudly places it on the table.

And my mum will go to the carvery carvery and she'll get whatever she wants and then my father will go and he'll leave the rice in front of him and then he'll take the lid off of it and he'll place the rice on and he'll mash it all together and he'll do that and I'm a little bit like that if I take my own hors d'oeuvre very proud of it have no problem with it at all how warm is the chow mein

are you putting it in the further doesn't matter it doesn't matter it depends if you've been for a drink before it depends if i found it in the bottom of my bag and it's been there for a while it doesn't matter but the whole point here is is that i'm not going to wait for the food to arrive so if i'm hungry i need to eat does it matter matter what sort of restaurant you're in?

If it's like a really high-end restaurant, would you whip out your chao mein and just go for it?

That's a very personal question, but yes.

Life's messy.

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So we come to your starter, which I don't know, but I hope it comes on time because otherwise you're going to have a starter of your own.

What would be your dream starter?

Probably yuk sung.

which is the minced chicken with the vermicelli, with the water chestnuts and bamboo shoots.

It's been fried with an obscene amount of garlic, and then it's with fried crispy white vermicelli on top, and then it's wrapped in a crisp iceberg lettuce leaf and then dipped into some chili vinegar.

Oh, yes.

There you go.

It's light as well as being filling.

Absolutely.

And also as well,

I like sharing food.

I'm not particularly good.

And so if I go for dinner with friends, which I do a lot,

then I will never order first because I need to see what everyone else is eating.

So to make make sure that I know that I'm gonna have a mouthful of that a mouthful of that a mouthful of that so I'm not gonna order so if everyone's gonna order the burger I'm not gonna order the burger because I'm gonna have a whole burger by the time I've got everyone around everyone anyway and so and there's there's something about yuk sung which is because it's served at the center of the table and it's got lots of lettuce leaves that actually it's more like a main course than a starter because if you get in quickly and I can I can literally not chew and still appreciate the food and so therefore I can get through quite a quite a few of them at the same time.

That's very clever.

Do you make it on your show?

We didn't make the yucksang, actually.

It was one of the recipes that I had here.

We had three recipes per episode, which isn't that many at all.

And what did I do instead?

I made incredible half-moon rice balls, which is almost like a deconstructed sushi hand roll, which was made with tuna, with a wasabi and mustard mayonnaise in a tiny half moon, and they were beautiful.

So that was replaced.

My local sushi place has started delivering again for the first time since lockdown.

And I am having a lovely time with the salmon skin rolls.

Oh, I love a salmon skin roll.

I really like a salmon skin roll.

Yeah, and then also one of the cheapest things on the menu.

Yeah, absolutely.

Essentially, it's scrap.

Yeah,

it is.

Which is, yeah, which is delicious.

Do you know what?

If they called it that on the menu, I'd still order it.

I wish you would.

I'd love some scraps, please.

Do you remember scraps in the chip shop?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, my God.

Weren't they the best parts?

That was great.

All the leftover batter and the tiny little bits of really crispy potato.

They were the best things.

We used to have a portion of scraps to go alongside our meal.

Yeah, anyway, you just reminded me.

Broken biscuits as well.

Broken biscuits.

Oh, I love a broken biscuit.

But everything tasted like the vanilla wafers because they were such a dominant flavour that even if it was a custard cream or sometimes a strawberry cream, depending on what factory you went to, then it would have still taste like one of the wafer fingers.

Do you remember bottles of pop from the milkman?

No.

No.

I don't think we ever had a milkman, you know.

Oh, you didn't have a milkman?

I'm speaking for myself.

Me and James didn't grow up together.

Sadly.

Sadly, yeah, I would love that.

If I could go back in time, Ed, I'd make sure we did.

How would you do that?

I'd move to Wimbledon

and I'd make sure we grew up together.

So that's a great starter.

And also, it sounds like it would be a good icebreaker for one of your dinner parties.

Exactly, because you'd have to make your own, you see.

So you're kind of serving.

Also,

there's a really beautiful tradition

that a lot of Asian families still do, which is the youngest of the family, regardless of, you know, I'm now 45, 46 this year, but I am the youngest of my nuclear family.

So when I have dinner with all of them, it's my responsibility to serve the family.

So I will serve the rice.

I will then,

you know, if we're sat at the dinner table, then I will serve my mum loves shiitake mushrooms.

So I will then find the shiitake mushrooms in the meal in the six or seven dishes.

And I'll constantly be, you know, replenishing her bowl with shiitake mushrooms.

I know that my brother loves crispy roast soy sauce ducks, so I'll be looking for

the most tender piece to put into his bowl.

And so there's something lovely about sharing.

And so if I was to have the Yuk Sung, because I'm not necessarily the youngest of my friends, I am probably the person that's organised the evening and the bossiest, and I would have ordered the meal.

So I would then be making all of the Yuk Sung wraps for all of my friends.

So it's a nice moment of letting everyone feel very welcome.

for the meal they're about to have.

What happens if the youngest member of the family is a tiny baby?

Yep.

Then they will have to wear gloves so that

it's probably

the most able of the youngest of the family.

You wouldn't just put a spoon in the baby's hand just to see how it gets on.

It's a very, very good question.

I'm going to call my dad after this and find out and tell me what he thinks.

Little Ali McBeal baby doing all the work for everybody.

Oh my God, Ali McBeal.

What a great show that was.

I was going to say one of the best moments in my house growing up.

And I thought, that sounds sad, but then it probably was actually

when

my mum and sister were watching loads of Ali McBeal, and my dad would always be like, Oh man,

he's always watching Ali McBeal.

I want to sit in the living room as well.

You've got Ali McBeal on, and then he just started just having to put up with it.

And then eventually, he was like, clearly getting into it silently.

And then, after one of them, you know, they have the bit at the beginning, and then they have the opening titles.

By the time the opening titles came on, he turned to my sister and went, This is the best episode of Ali McBeal ever.

He was totally, he was completely into it.

Every time I have a water chestnut, I'm surprised.

Every time I'm surprised by the texture of it, they're like magic.

Are they chestnuts?

I don't really understand what they are.

Good question.

They're kind of chestnuts.

I mean,

I think they are found in water.

I don't know actually the answer to this.

I mean, maybe I should Google and make myself look really intelligent, but

I think they are found in water.

I think

they look like a chestnut, but of course they taste nothing like a chestnut and they stay crunchy regardless of what you do to them.

They're a delicious ingredient.

I use a lot of them actually.

I'd like to see Mythbusters do an episode on that.

There you go.

Do they stay crunchy no matter what you do to them?

I think they well I well I kind of know since I've cooked them which has been for 45 years they've never ever gone soggy not once and so

so yes and they're they're a really good ingredient.

They're delicious actually.

I love them.

I love them.

I really really like them.

I like a lot of them if you you stir-fry some king crawls just with some chili oil, lots of garlic and ginger and spring onion, and throw a load of those in at the last minute and scorch them.

It's a really beautiful.

Just serve that with some bread.

It's amazing.

Oh, that sounds amazing.

And it's doable.

Not too intimidating, I think I could try that.

James, you know, you'll like this series because I literally have debunked all the myths of

Asian cookery and I've made it really, really simple.

I've made quite a few dishes using very Western ingredients, like I made a canton beef dish with um

with tomato ketchup which is a real which is incredible the minute you mix tomato ketchup with oyster sauce you get this fusion flavour which is so dynamic and delicious and simple and you get the saltiness and the sweetie and sweetness from the tomato ketchup and then that with the charred beef and fresh plum tomatoes and lots of onions it's delicious I've got tomato ketchup in the fridge right now.

You should try that dish.

You should try it.

I will.

I'll tell you how to make it.

James, do you want the recipe now very quickly he's only got tomato ketchup though

yeah

have you got any protein in your fridge uh chicken chicken that'll do okay so you're gonna boil your chicken however it comes with its breast or thigh let me get my notes up up boil

we're gonna do this chicken do you have any soy sauce yeah okay so you're gonna put a bit of soy sauce in the water and it will colour the chicken but also add some salt to it as well and then after you've boiled it you're gonna let it go cool and then you're just gonna shred it with your fingers.

Just put it apart.

Yeah.

Then what you're going to do is you're going to fry off some garlic.

Have you got ginger?

Fingers.

Yes.

Fry garlic.

And if you've got any ginger, okay, you're going to put in two cloves of garlic.

You're going to put half a centimeter of ginger.

Half a centimetre?

Yeah.

If you're really posh, you'll grate the ginger.

If you're not really posh, you'll cut it up as small as you can go, James.

But watch your fingers.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Then if you've got any spring onions.

Yeah, I have actually.

Okay, so you're going to chop your spring onions up.

You're going to chop up the green bits into three centimetre strips, and then the white part of the onion you're going to chop into smaller bits.

And that's because a spring onion tastes differently.

So the green bit is less acidic, and the white bit is very acidic.

Okay?

Got it.

And then so what you're going to do is you're going to fry your spring onion, your ginger, and your garlic.

And then you're going to put in your chicken in a tiny bit of oil, not very much at all.

And then you're going to put a squeeze, a good squeeze of tomato ketchup.

Have fun with that, James.

Yeah.

Fun.

And then you're going to put in.

Yeah.

And then you're going to put in about half of what you've done with the tomato ketchup with oyster sauce.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then at the very end of it, you're going to serve it on fluffy rice just with a tiny, tiny dash of sesame oil.

And that's your most basic Cantonese dish.

That is great.

And at no point do I have to use.

Oh, no, you did say water.

So I'm going to

at the beginning, I'm going to be absolutely sucked.

Unfortunately, you're not going to be able to get the water into the pan to boil the chicken in the season.

Yeah, and that's the first hurdle.

I will be drowned before the first.

But I've written all that down.

Thank you very much, God.

That sounds delicious.

Do some cooking.

Have 40 people round.

All for one dish.

Yeah, all for one dish.

I learned a new dish, everyone.

All 40 of you come over.

I don't know all of you, but.

How many spoons do you have?

Just the one.

We're living in COVID times, James.

You can't share cutlery.

COVID times, and I share it.

We all share it in the flat.

Me, my girlfriend, oh, Jason Mackenzie.

And we all share the spoon together.

Who's Jason McKenzie?

He lives in the flat as well.

He's my pen pal, and he visited just before lockdown was announced, and now he's living here.

Had you met him before that?

No, never met him.

He's been my pen pal since I was in primary school.

And it's the first time that I met him.

And now he's had to stay here all the way through lockdown.

Wow.

Have you got on?

Not really.

His views are a bit outdated.

He's about 20 years older than me.

And

he's a little bit stuck in his ways.

And I don't...

It's been a bit...

James, how did you get assigned this person as your pen pal was it through a pen pal society was it was

in in primary school and there was a class another class of kids so we were going to be pen pals with them but the amount of kids didn't line up though I was like a spare kid so I just got the teacher uh and that's Joseph Mackenzie and this is a teacher from another school yes all right okay so genuinely you've not met him until lockdown Didn't meet him before lockdown he came just to visit me for the first time lockdown was announced now he's staying in

Doesn't get on with me, doesn't get on with my girlfriend.

He spends most of his time locked in the spare room working on his arts and crafts website.

I'm sure I've dated him.

Yeah, probably.

Your main course, Gock.

Yes.

What are we having?

Oh.

Am I deciding?

Yeah.

Oh, it's the first time anyone's ever thrown it back at us, which would make sense because it is a restaurant.

Okay, so we're going to have a salt fish or a dried fish rendang curry, which is non-ya food, so it's Peranakan food.

So it's a cross between Cantonese and Malaysian and comes originally from the peninsula of Malaysia in a very small, beautiful seaside town called Malacca.

And so we're going to have that dish, which is made with a hrampa, which traditionally has over 100 ingredients in, which is basically a curry paste with everything from candle nuts, kafia, lime leaves, lemongrass, chili, garlic.

I mean, it's incredible.

So, we're going to have that, but that's going to be in a big pot in the center.

And that's going to have salt fish.

I'll probably put some eggs in it as well.

So, I quite like eggs and curry.

I think it works.

So, we're going to have a we're going to have that.

Then, I'm going to do a whole sea bass, and it's going to be steamed with ginger and spring onion and a light soy.

So, very simple, very fragrant, just with some fresh lemon squeezed on afterwards.

And, but then I'll serve that.

But what I'll do is I'll fill up the fish with my chopsticks because it's a bit of a party piece.

So, you know, none of you are messing around just with a single pair of chopsticks.

I'm going to take that fish apart.

Then I'm probably going to do chili and salt pork chops, maybe.

So some pork chops.

Chili and salt.

I was thinking about that then.

How many dishes are it?

Well, it depends on how many people.

Considering it's my dream, my mouth, my restaurant, I'm kind of thinking.

Yeah, fair enough.

It is your mouth.

Yeah, exactly.

12 of us, it's definitely my mouth.

There's 12 of us at dinner.

And so there's probably going to be about eight dishes.

I'm on my third now, am I?

Yeah.

Okay.

So then I'm going to do tofu with mashed prawn that's been stir-fried with black bean sauce because I love that dish.

Then I'm going to do mapo tofu, which is another vegetarian dish with a really hot chili sauce over silky soft tofu.

Then I'm going to do some morning glory with some preserved bean curd.

And then I'm going to do bok choy with shiitake mushrooms and hair vegetable in an oyster sauce.

And I'm going to serve it with a really, really,

really beautiful, clear broth and plain fluffy rice with sesame seeds.

So, you are cooking all this as well?

Apparently, because you can't even use the tap.

Looks as if I'm doing all of this.

That's fair enough.

I mean, the idea is that James is a genie, he can just magic these things up, but the genie can't use the tap.

So, you're cooking, unfortunately, got some.

Clearly, I'm cooking.

I don't mind.

I quite enjoy it.

I'm happy with that.

I'm all good.

Of all those dishes, dishes, what would you say is the star of the table there?

Probably the rendang.

A rendang curry is, it's a little bit like,

I'm not going to say, I was going to say like your KFC secret recipe, but that kind of doesn't do the rendang curry any favours at all.

But it's every single family and every single cook or chef has got their own version of making the rendang.

And,

you know,

I made a cooking show out in Malaysia a few years ago, and I was lucky enough to go and work with one of Malaysia's top cooks.

She's incredible, and we made her rampa, and we couldn't film the whole process because there was no way that she wanted all of her ingredients put onto camera or for anybody else.

But she gave me the liberty of making it with her.

And so, the rendang's there because there's so many wonderful stories that you can talk about at rendang, and it kind of is unlike any other curry you'd ever tasted in your entire life.

And it's somewhere between a curry and a stew, and it's spicy, but it's also sweet, and it's incredible.

And it's probably the dish I cook most for dinner parties because I like my dinner parties to go on quite a while.

And then you get to three or four o'clock in the morning and people are falling around, you know, with their drinks and whatever.

The rendang comes back out just with a massive loaf of bread, and people are into the rendang with these hunks of bread that they're ripping off.

And it's just

the meal that keeps on giving.

I mean, your dinner parties sound absolutely incredible.

I put a lot of effort into them.

Better than any birthday I've ever had.

But boys, you're more than welcome welcome to come over if you want.

I mean, they are, it's, they are, it's a bit of an open house.

It has been known I've thrown at a kitchen party, and halfway through the night, I've said to somebody, who are you?

And

I have no idea at all who you are.

And they've just walked in from the street.

I'm Eamon Holmes.

No, Eamon's always, Eamon's always welcome.

He's adorable.

You'd leave him alone.

I don't think I've ever been at a dinner party and still been there at four in the morning.

I get sleepy at like 10.30, so I don't know if I'd last the course at

dinner parties.

I'd have to take some Ren Dang home for the next morning.

Yeah, you could do that.

I've got a good friend of mine, Scott, who is one of the most intelligent and politically wise people I've ever met in my entire life.

But the minute that he smells a shandy, he just turns into this complete drunken mess.

And you can guarantee he will just find the hottest place in the house.

And when he's had enough, he'll just be standing and then collapse into sleep.

And it's like, it's,

it's like the reverse of like when you finish your gymnastics, when you go over the horse and you stand proud, he does the opposite of that.

Just crumple.

He does, yeah, exactly.

He does crumbles on the floor.

And so you could always join Scott for a cuddle in the warmest part of the house.

And then I'll bring some rendang over.

Yeah, perfect.

That's nice.

Ed absolutely loves leaving early.

I do.

He loves being the first one to go.

No,

he absolutely relishes it.

What is it about leaving early you like, Ed?

I'm just, I'm, I, I make cameos.

I make impact cameos on parties.

I'm in.

I'm there for an hour.

I chatted.

Have you heard yourself?

I'm just going to...

What are you doing on Saturday?

I'm just making an impact cameo.

You may miss me, but it's only a cameo.

I'm in.

I have loads to drink very quickly, and then by 11pm, I'm gone.

Really?

I think I still drink like I used to drink when I was a teenager, where you're just, you can't believe you've got booze, so you just drink it really quickly.

And I think I still do that, so I'm always burnt out by about 11pm.

No, no, no, what you wouldn't do here, we'd pace you, we'd look after you, we'd be very concerned about your longevity.

Yeah.

And

we'd want you to stay, so we would pace you.

You'd be fine.

I just don't think you've been to the right parties, Ed.

Yeah, I think that's probably.

And that's what it is.

I think it's down to the environment.

Usually at parties,

usually one of the last people who go to sleep, it's just at the end of the party, it's just me and Nish Kumar sitting up together talking about our friendship.

Talking about

recalling the first time we met each other,

we've been over it like a million times.

It's always like, when I first met you, I wasn't so keen.

I remember when I decided that you were my friend.

I like to get those chats done at 7 p.m.

so I know I can leave in a couple of hours' time.

Like, quickly talk about the friendships, lovely to see you.

I'm not taking my coat off.

Yeah, I think I'm the opposite, actually, Ed.

I think that I'm, I, if I, if I, I rare, I rarely go to other people's homes, um, like rarely at all.

I like people to come here

because I'm far more in control of them that way.

And, um, but if I do go over to someone's house, and then I'm the kind of person that you bit like, Gok, it's time to go now.

We're all exhausted.

I'm like that.

And so, yeah, it's the complete opposite.

I just don't know when to stop.

Oh, I'd love it if you visited Ed's house.

You've got to visit Ed.

Ed's doing those at barbecues lately.

Go over there for a barbecue.

Come over for a barbecue, Gok.

Who do you live with, Ed?

We know about Jane.

I live with my fiancée, and she's upstairs.

Oh, lovely.

And that's it.

That's all you need to know about her.

You know, this isn't a job application, Ed.

We know that, don't you?

No pen pals for Ed because Ed doesn't like talking about friendship too much.

She's a fan of the results of the barbecue, but doesn't like me talking about the barbecue all the time and thinking about having barbecues because I think I only bought it like a month ago.

We were having about three or four barbecues a week when I first bought it.

And I talk about it all the time.

And one time she caught me hugging the barbecue.

Was it was it on?

It was heating up, so it was warm.

Semi-warm.

Semi-warm, lovely for a hug.

Nice.

And do you impose the same personal restrictions on yourself when you're doing your own barbecue?

So will you then suddenly vanish halfway through the barbecue having made an impactful cameo?

Yeah,

I make my impact cameo.

I eat very fast as well.

So normally she's...

Even though it's your food.

Yeah, it's my food.

Wolf it down

and then

start to clean up while she's still eating.

That's normally how I do things.

You know what?

You're a delight of a fiancé.

God, she lucked out.

Yeah, she really did.

In F-defense, when it comes to hugging the barbecue, and this is true, God, weirdly, his fiancé has started deliberately dressing like the barbecue.

That's not true.

And so that's true.

That is true.

You sent me a photo.

No, I sent you a photo of the barbecue, and then you saw a picture where she was also dressed similarly to the barbecue, but I've not made her dress like the barbecue.

Okay.

So just for the purposes of this part of the interview, stroke chat, stroke, weirdest moment of my life.

Yes.

I'm now going to take off my chef's hat and put my styling hat on.

Go for it.

And I'm going to say, let's not ever say to anybody, regardless of whether you are about to marry them or whether you don't like them or whether you love them dearly, you may not even know them, that they look like a barbecue.

We're just not going to do that.

Okay, that, boys?

We're never, ever going to do that.

No.

And we don't even need to discuss it, really.

We're just never, ever.

It's a very pretty barbecue, though, Gok.

No, I don't care.

I don't care.

Just does the word barbecue doesn't sum up the words couture, beautiful, chic, elegant, stunning.

None of those things go with barbecue.

Okay, fair enough.

Okay, yeah, fair enough.

Look, I put my chef's hat back on, so no longer a stylist.

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A side dish, can we go dumplings?

Who doesn't love a dumpling?

For sure.

I'd probably do water dumplings, which are slightly different to a Japanese gyoza.

And they would have five folds in the top, which are very important.

Each one of those folds represents something.

It can be anything you want.

It can be five of your pen pals, James, if you want it to.

It can be five.

Mine represents my five members of my family.

So whenever I make a dumpling, it always has to have five folds on, respectful of my family.

Mine represents the time I'm going to go home.

One.

On 1 p.m.

was one fold.

It's closing it.

And I'd probably serve inside water chestnuts, actually, go well in a dumpling because they hold their density.

So I'd probably go water chestnuts, scallops,

dill, and bamboo shoots.

And I would serve it with a vinaigrette.

I've been eating a lot of dumplings recently.

We live quite near to a Chinese supermarket.

We've just been filling the freezer up with dumplings and having a lot of them.

They're quite good, I have to say.

The frozen ones are quite good.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with them at all.

Have you ever tried to make your own dumplings?

No,

I made bow once.

Bow's good.

Bow's tough to make.

Yeah, it was quite difficult.

It was quite difficult.

It came out alright, though.

I mean, probably, you know, not to any exacting standard, but it was a thing and it looked sort of like the thing I wanted it to look like.

It was a thing and it looked like a thing.

It looked like a thing, but it didn't matter because I ate it.

It's a cheerwriter.

It didn't matter anyway, because I ate it within two minutes.

So it didn't make it look nice.

Just about consumption.

Push it down and go to bed.

Oh, I was a bit unsettled when I find out about Ed cooking stuff I didn't know he'd cooked.

Oh, sorry, James.

Well, normally you send me photos when you've cooked something.

Yeah.

And I didn't know about the bar.

Did you two meet in a restaurant?

Actually, we probably did because we met on the comedy circuit and we're probably doing a gig at a restaurant.

Yeah.

Yeah, that Hawaiian restaurant.

Yeah, well, it was a Hawaiian bar, wasn't it?

But

it was a gig called Ha Ha Ha at the Hawaiian, and it cost two pounds to get in, and you got an all-you-can-eat Chinese buffet as well.

For two quid for two quid in Cardiff, yeah, and you guys, and

I don't know what's cheaper.

You or the food.

I can't quite work it out.

I don't know.

The world names we are now got.

Nowadays, that would be three quid minimum.

Okay, so drinks are quite important, aren't they?

Because

drinks are a different conversation,

a different narrative.

So, and also as well, drinks are a great way of bringing people together, especially if some of your friends aren't necessarily proper foodies that want to sit and talk about the process of doing the cucumber, you know, so so you can talk to them about the booze.

And so, I'd probably start with an elder flower,

an elderflower cocktail to bring begin with, because it's quite sweet but refreshing, probably with a champagne base.

I'm thinking probably with blackberries.

Then, I would, then definitely an Afrol Spritz.

Let's think about an Afrol Spritz that springs everyone together, but not a Negrone.

An Afrol has to be an Afrol Spritz, lighter, fresher, far more universal.

And then, and I drink beer, I like lager, so I will then go on to bottled lager when everyone else goes on to wine.

I like that juxtaposition.

And then it would be finishing on then spirits.

And I don't like dark spirits, so I'd get the whiskey and the brandy out and everything else for everyone else, if they wanted after their dinner with their chocolates.

And I would then start pouring my vodka, but my vodka has to be served in a fish jug.

A fish jug?

Yes.

What's that?

So in so in Stoke-on-Trent, there's a very famous jug called a guggle jug, and it's shaped like a fish in its tail.

And as you pour out of the jug, because of the vacuum of the air where the air can get contained, it makes a

clugging sound.

And so it's called a guggle jug.

And I have one that's my favourite thing.

And I don't see, I can't really drink vodka out of anything else.

It has to be out of this jug.

I mean, into a glass.

Yeah, not directly from the fish into your mouth.

Straight from the gluggle jug.

And it has been known when I've DJed at festivals and in nightclubs to take my gugg jug and just get it refilled.

It has to be said.

I know it's odd.

It just happens.

It's good.

I like a DJ who's got a recognisable prop or gimmick or a mascot or whatever.

That's good.

He's got a goggle jug up there.

Dead mouse has got the fake head.

I've got my goggle jug.

Yeah.

That's all you need.

So for your drink, you've sort of just picked every booze, really, haven't you?

Yeah, pretty much.

Yeah, bit of a drinker.

Yeah.

Bit of a drinker.

Like a drink.

Yeah,

but not wine.

Not wine.

And champagne gives me wind.

So we steer away.

Just fake.

But bottled lager doesn't.

No, it does as well, but I'm normally too pissed to care.

So, you know.

That's fine.

You mentioned Elderflower.

Is it just every...

I think it is no.

I'm having loads of conversations lately where people are saying they're getting into Elderflower stuff again.

Is it something that is being consciously pushed back into the public consciousness?

Or is it just a coincidence that I've had a lot of conversations with people lately where elderflower has been bought up?

Well, if you hang around at the Elderflower Society, then you're probably going to talk about Elderflower quite a lot.

I'm thinking, James.

Probably where you put yourself.

It's geography.

That's what it is.

Yes.

Who are these people you're having conversations with about Elderflower recently?

Again, I've not told you about some food I've been cooking.

You've not been telling me about these Elderflower freaks you've been hanging out with.

Yeah, good point.

Oh, they're freaks now.

Wow.

Elderflower.

This flower is deep, quick.

But my girlfriend's been getting into it.

Rose Johnson

was telling me the other day that she really likes Elderflower lately.

She's been having more Elderflower.

My mum was saying that she's been having...

These are the only people I talk to during lockdown.

Bus three people in the last week have bought a bald flower.

There could be a resurgence.

I mean, there often is, isn't there?

You know, it's food is food is trend related.

It goes and it also depends on where we are our time.

And so there could be a moment.

And then, you know, I remember not so long ago, it was all about honey in cocktails, wasn't it?

It couldn't go anywhere without having a honey cocktail.

And so it could be this is a resurgence.

Elderflower resurgence.

I love a honey cocktail.

Honey, a lemon and whiskey.

Oh, delicious.

Shake that up.

Yeah, really good with a hangover, actually, they are.

They're good for the day after.

Yeah, really good.

A hot toddy.

Really good for the day after.

If you're feeling really particularly, you know that Sunday where you've gone to the party, for some reason you're out and it's in the countryside somewhere and you are literally hanging off of your stilettos.

You're that rough the next day.

And then you hit the pub lunch and you're one of the first in the pub.

You sit down.

If you just have a hot toddy before you do anything else, completely levels you.

There's something incredible about it.

We have very, very rarely have guests who come in confidently and say, I want all of these drinks.

Normally, people feel forced into picking one, but you've just absolutely done the right thing and gone, I want all of these at different points of the evening.

And I've planned out how pissed we're going to get at each point.

In my world, we call that a lush.

Yeah.

Just being a total fucking lush.

That's all it is.

Such a nice word.

Yeah, isn't it?

Lush.

Yeah.

Just sounds nice phonetically.

but i always get too giddy i'd love i'd love to have all that booze across the evening but like yesterday we had a barbecue here and had some friends over and i was so excited i had a beer while i was doing the barbecue and then uh our friends arrived and i had some uh sparkling wine and then some wine and then i was just done i was done for the night yeah i just needed to go i think that's that just goes back to your impactful cameo

already giving yourself a time limit And so what you're doing is you're trying to intensify all of your experiences for everyone, actually.

Yeah.

Which is very generous of you, Ed.

I take big sips as well, Gok.

I really take

such big sips.

They should call me the gluggle drug.

They should, absolutely.

You're a big sipper.

But, but honestly, no matter whatever you're imagining in your head now, Gok, it doesn't do it justice.

His big sips are insane.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

It is mad.

It's like an actual proper Hoover setting.

Like, it just, because

it doesn't look like he's taken much.

You know, just a little tip of the glass and like already over half gone in one.

But I don't understand why people sip beer, like do little sips.

I want like on a hot day, if I have a cold beer, I want to take one sip and for half of it to be gone.

Refreshing.

Yeah.

Maybe I'm just trying to think, how do I consume my alcohol

large quantities quickly as well?

Yeah.

But maybe, but then I'm just kind of, but I'm there for the duration.

Ah, but do you drink water whilst you're drinking?

Sometimes, and sometimes I forget, and that's always the worst.

yeah okay so that's that's that's my top tip see for your excitement and for your big sippage i think that you need to uh definitely start consuming the the water as well the tap water don't ask james to get it for you yeah but then you just have to go to the loo so much and if you're hosting you don't want to be in the loo the whole night oh it's a nice break it's a nice break and then just think about all those impactful cameos you can make every time you come back yeah i mean this has got so many pluses or just hold it all in and then wet yourself and that's the ultimate impact cameo isn't it okay that's a different type of party.

Yes.

Just so we're aware.

Different type of party.

Your dessert, Scott.

Very exciting.

For me, this is my favourite of all the courses.

Ed's a starter boy.

I like starters.

I'm a dessert boy.

What are you having?

Nothing.

I don't like them.

Yes, yes, yes.

Okay.

Don't like desserts.

I think desserts are a waste of time.

Are you winding me up?

Just saying it for a laugh, aren't you?

Because I said it it was my favourite.

No, no.

Nothing.

No, there's absolutely zero dessert going on.

Are you kidding me?

Don't swear on me.

I've just served you 15 courses.

Yes.

We've never had anyone skip dessert before.

This is a triumph.

No, we're just going to go straight to the boobies.

You know, if you want half an old marshmallow in the cupboard, have yourself.

I think I've got a little bit of a

nut brittle from 72 hanging around somewhere.

By all means.

I will eat that.

Those are my only options.

Yeah.

If you carry on shopping, you're leaving.

That's it.

Oh, my God.

I love this.

It's such a bad thing.

I can't believe what I'm here.

But Gox already.

Gox served so much for the mains and the sides.

And there's so much lovely booze.

Yeah, but then, right, straight to the booze.

Get into the serious drinking.

The music's come on.

We've changed the lighting.

The chairs have been pushed away.

You know, the dishwasher's full.

You know, we're pouring the drinks now.

We're all having a chat, we're all a bit full, you know, anybody that wants a dessert we've got rid of, you know, the party has, the party has really started.

And I can see why, because I can see why your parties go on for a long time, because dessert

draws a line under the meal, doesn't it?

It sort of says that's the end.

Whereas you want to just carry on.

All of those things.

I'm not too sure what that noise is.

James.

It pains.

James.

It pains.

Me trying to contain my anger, Gok.

You've been a very nice guest, and I don't want to get too angry with you at the end of the episode, but it is not the end of the meal where you have dessert.

It's the start of the party, if anything else.

No, it starts a line.

It draws a line.

Yeah.

It draws a line.

It draws a line under the evening.

It says, oh, everyone's going home now because you've had dessert.

Whereas the wonderful thing that Gok said about later on, then the curry might come back out.

You can't do that if you've had a dessert, can you?

Thank you.

What?

The curry comes back.

Yeah.

Oh, my, my God.

That'd be even worse for me.

I'll be sitting there thinking, oh, oh, Gok's bringing a pot out.

This must be the dessert because it was weird that we didn't have one's fucking curry again.

Gok,

when you do the dinner parties where 40 people come over, do you ever ask any of them to bring a dessert?

I mean, if they want it, they can have it.

I mean, I give it no attention, really.

It doesn't go pride of place on the table.

I mean, it doesn't, sometimes it doesn't even go in the same room.

That's how much I, that's, that's.

What living Christ?

Where would you put, what room do you put the dessert in?

Just like the toilets.

The outside toilet.

Yeah.

The outside toilet.

This is disrespectful.

I cannot believe this.

I cannot believe what I'm hearing.

You're telling me

you're having 40 people over to your house and not one of them wants a dessert.

Yeah.

And also, surprisingly, nobody raises their voice, James, either.

I mean,

it's a nice dinner party.

We all get off.

Who are these people?

You know, they're grateful people.

You know, grateful that they're they're coming over to a nice house and that somebody's put the effort in to organize a menu and to cook for them.

And, you know, we're having great conversation.

We're all getting on.

We're talking about where our friendship started, where our friendship's going to.

I'll tell you what.

I'll be talking about where our friendship ends if there's no dessert at the party.

Oh, God.

I cannot believe we've had our first pass on the dessert.

Sometimes people choose cheese and biscuits and that gets me angry enough.

But

a pass yeah i'm i'm all for it i think that's great i'd be so i'd be so full from all that all the wonderful main courses no

exactly exactly and also is why you want to save some room for you know for midnight curry you know there's all of that stuff happening you know i could i i would be able to eat dessert and still have midnight curry later i'd be able to do it i'm gonna go on the record and say that james you what so so this so this love affair that you've got with the dessert

yes yeah where does that come from the fact that it's the best thing in the world.

Oh, sorry.

Oh, sorry.

Am I not allowed to like the best thing in the world?

I would say that I come from a sweet-toothed family.

My father

has a sweet tooth.

Me and my brother and sister do.

It's not just a sweet tooth, it is a full mouth of sweet teeth.

Okay, so I did actually make a dessert on the cooking show.

I made one dessert on the cooking show.

Okay.

And I made a cardamom rice pudding.

Lovely.

And I did it with a brulee top.

And so I put the, you know, and I also put, um, I also did chopped macadamian nuts on top, which are similar to a candle nut that you would get in Malaysia.

And it means that you can actually use them as fuel so you can burn them as a candle for days.

And so what I did is I then chopped up the macadamian nuts and I put them on top of the dessert and then I grilled them and then they kind of went crunchy and a little bit burnt and lovely and sugary.

And so, do you know what?

Just for you, James, don't do it, Gok.

Don't do it.

Don't do it, Gok.

Don't pander to him.

You've done so much work.

Come home, Gok.

Come home.

You don't need to pay.

This is your house.

This is your dream restaurant.

We're in your mouth.

You can't pander to him.

Oh, little devil on your shoulder.

This is like watching my parents argue.

I want to love both of you equally.

This is not fair on me.

So, Ed, I know you don't want me to, but I feel for James here.

He's passionate.

You know, he loves his dessert.

I'm going to give him the cardamom rice pudding with the chopped macadamian nuts, with the brulee, brown sugar.

Well, you know what?

That sounds very nice, so I'm happy with that as well.

Yes.

I'm going to read your menu back to you now, Gok, and tell me how you feel about it.

Okay.

Water, you would like still water.

Still water from the tap.

Problems of bread?

You refuse to answer.

And then you decided both.

And the bread would have to be roasted onion bread with salted butter.

Starter, Yuk Sun.

Main course.

Yeah.

Deep breath.

Saltfish red down curry whole sea bass which the phone has corrected to sea bags, but I'm sure you would like sea bass.

Chili and soft pork chops, tofu with mashed prawn, mapu tofu, morning glory, bok choy, clear broth with fluffy rice.

Side dish, water dumplings, drink, an entire bar.

Dessert, originally nothing, but then you decided on rice pudding with cardamom, brulee on the top and macadamia nuts.

Lovely, lovely dessert.

Do you know what I would date, Ming?

I mean,

that's a substantial, handsome menu, I think.

That's a phenomenal menu.

That's really good.

That's a whole evening as well.

You've planned the whole night.

Thank you so much for coming to the Dream Restaurant.

Not a problem.

That was lots of fun.

Thank you, Sam.

Well, there we have it.

That was the off-menu menu of the brilliant Gokuan.

What a wonderful guest he was, James.

A wonderful guest.

And thank you, Goku.

I will never forget your kindness in adding the dessert just for me at the end of the day.

That annoyed me.

Oh, so gracious.

Not many guests have ever done that, gone out their way to appease me like that.

So I will never forget it.

I'm annoyed because we've had people pass on the starter before.

Greg Davis passed on the starter, and he didn't appease me, did he?

Nope, because it's a bullshit course, and he knew that there was no point even.

I can't believe it is time with it.

He's still this arrogant about it, even though you know it's possible now that people might pass on dessert.

It's not possible because their conscience will get the better of them.

No.

No, I'm not.

Well, anyway, it did sound like quite a nice dessert.

And the most important thing, of course, is that Gok did not say sweetbreads.

Oh, thank you, Gok, for not saying sweetbread.

Although, you know, I would have liked to have heard the word sweet out of your mouth a little bit more if you know what I'm saying.

Desserts.

Desserts.

We knew what you were saying.

So, thank you, Gok,

for not saying sweetbreads and for appeasing James.

We will now plug your show, which is called Gok One's Easy Asian.

It's on the Food Network.

It's on Mondays from the 10th of August, and it's also available on D-Play.

D-Play!

Me and Ed both do music podcasts now, and you can listen to them.

Listen to Lifers by Ed Gamble on Spotify and Perfect Sounds with James Acaster, also on Spotify, but also on BBC Sounds.

We both do music podcasts now because music is the food of love.

We also, we're going to start doing love podcasts, aren't we?

Yes, because love is the food of music.

Food.

Thank you very much for listening.

We will see you again next week, probably, at Keep On Eating.

Don't don't go

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