Ep 50: Joe Thomas

James, huge news from the world of off-menu and indeed the world of the world.

Yes.

Ever heard of the Royal Albert Hall?

I have.

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We're doing more live shows there next year.

Sure, a lot of them are sold out already.

But we thought, hey, throw these guys a bone.

Let's put on one final Royal Albert Hall show in that run.

The show will be on Monday, the 16th of March.

It's going to be a tasting menu, a returning guest coming back, receiving the menu of another previous guest.

Those shows have been a lot of fun.

We cannot wait to do them live.

Who will we pull out of our little magic bag?

You'll have to come along on the 16th of March to find out.

If I'm correct in thinking, presale tickets go on pre-sale on the 10th of September.

Pre-sale tickets are 10th of September at 10 a.m.

And then the general sale is 12th of September at 10 a.m.

So if you miss out on the pre-sale, don't forget general sale is only two days later.

The day in between is for reflecting.

Get your tickets from royalalberthall.com or offmenupodcast.co.uk.

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Hello, it's Ed here.

Just before we play out the episode, just wanted to let you know that obviously this was recorded before the coronavirus pandemic.

Now, I know a lot of you are tuning into this to get away from hearing anything about that, which is cool.

Don't worry, it doesn't get mentioned again because this was recorded before all of that happened.

And we're letting you know because there's quite a lot of chat in this episode about Joe's play that he's in.

He was in to promote a play and obviously given the announcement about avoiding theatres, etc.,

it's just a bit weird.

But to be honest, a lot of this episode is a bit weird for various reasons.

It's an absolutely belting episode.

Hall of Fame, I'd say.

You're really going to enjoy it.

And I just want to reassure everyone who's worried that the pandemic is going to affect the podcast.

It is not.

We are very good boys who do our homework.

We have recorded a lot in advance.

The pandemic will not affect the dream restaurant.

The dream restaurant does not count as a mass gathering or a social situation.

So you are welcome anytime.

With that, enjoy the episode.

It's a great one.

And if you just dash in some humour and then put that in a bowl, pop a whack tea towel over it, leave that to rise, you've got yourself the beginnings of a lovely podcast.

Wonderful, Ed.

You alright with that?

Oh, I like it, Eddie.

I don't really cook bread.

You looked unsure when you were saying it, but I liked it.

I liked it.

I'm getting back into the swing of them, James.

But hey, the message remained clear throughout that intro.

Welcome to Off Menu.

It's like it was yeast.

It was like the

humour was yeast.

Yes.

And the podcast was the dough.

You're the

gamble?

Yeah.

You're James A.

Caster.

And then you've got to put the podcast in the oven as well.

So I didn't think it through.

But welcome.

It's food-based, essentially, is what it is.

Yeah, it's food-based.

We asked the guests their favourite ever start and main course dessert side dish and drink.

It's food-based.

Simple as that.

We have a special guest every week in the Dream Restaurant, and this week the special guest is Joe Thomas, a wonderful actor, comedian, writer.

Yes.

You may recognise him from the in-betweeners, from Taskmaster, from Fresh Meat, from many, many many things.

Well, how exciting.

But, hey, I like him, sure.

But Ed, listen, if he mentions our secret ingredient, I'm chucking him out of the restaurant.

I know you will.

Them's the rules.

I want to see you do it one day.

But hopefully not today.

Hopefully not today.

But hey, if he mentions kidneys, he's out.

Who wants kidneys?

We're not in a war.

I hate the texture of them.

Horrible.

Horrible texture.

And you know, I like liver.

See, liver's got a bad rap.

I like liver.

Not me.

There's a way of cooking liver nicely.

Kidneys, always awful.

Sorry.

Always awful.

And they look like kidneys.

Yeah.

Why would you want it?

Why would you want him if he says kidneys is out on his lily ass?

He is indeed.

So let's hear the off-menu menu of

Joe Thomas.

Welcome, Joe.

Thanks.

To the Dream Restaurant.

Thanks.

Well, well.

Joe Thomas, welcome to the dream restaurant.

That's the biggest pause you've left before you've emerged as a genie.

I had to let all the fizz settle.

There was a lot more fizz that time.

Was there?

So a lot of fizz.

And I wanted it all to settle before.

I didn't know if Joe could hear me over the fizz.

Yeah, actually, I couldn't.

It was just a white noise.

Yeah, yeah, a lot of fizz and foam, actually.

Yeah.

There's not normally foam.

What's happened?

I just, just, you know.

Phone party.

There's a foam party.

Speak of the 90s.

Yeah, before we started recording, you two were talking about university.

I didn't go to uni, so I'm like, phone parties, right?

That's what uni is.

That is basically what it was, yeah.

I don't think I ever, I think I was too shy to go to a phone party.

Phone party, I wouldn't have got within a mile of a phone party.

I mean, really, yeah, the level of confidence needed to go to that was just mental.

Like, I...

Why are they a thing?

I don't know.

I mean,

is it so people can just all get off with each other in the phone?

yeah it is yeah but also i mean

i

the idea that that foam would immediately lead to me getting off with someone seems so wild yeah just like no absolutely absolutely not do people get like really like wet with the phone soaking like a wet teeth

i think there's probably there's probably a little bit of that as well um

as i say the 90s yeah

and um yeah but yeah i know i am I didn't even know where you were meant to encounter them at phone parties.

I guess they're advertised as foam parties, aren't they?

Yeah.

You don't just have it as a real normal party and then you get there and there's foam.

How do they, how's it

arranged?

Where do you get the phone from?

What is it?

Do you must

phone a certain place and go, we need a lot of foam, we've got like this many freshers in, and we need enough foam to kind of like douse them.

Is it foam per fresher?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

It's 12.50 per head.

Yeah.

And that gets you this much detergent too much foam they they drown yeah yeah or too much water and not enough bubbles because bubbles is air and

bubbles is air bubbles is air bubbles is air and air is bubbles okay that's i did um a science degree

um

and uh if there's one thing i'll really take away from my year at university My year at university, it's that bubbles is air.

That's what they say.

Did you encounter Ed Gamble a lot at university?

Well, we were different, different universities, but very much we were

both in comedy and, you know, it was a hot student sketch scene.

Yeah.

Head at Durham.

Yeah.

The Durham Review.

Yeah.

You were at Cambridge.

Me at Cambridge.

Footlights.

Yep, the Footlights.

And then

the third...

Well,

better known and more highly revered and respected.

Well, I mean, not

through our

work, but

possibly.

Who was your Footlights group?

Me,

Johnny Sweet, Simon Bird,

Nick Mohammed?

Nick Mohammed.

Tom now Will Sharp, who wrote Flowers.

Tiani Ghosh.

Who?

I was just millionaires establishing that it was a lady.

Because until then, I was like, what a sausage fest.

Tin is a lady.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it was a sausage fest.

Yeah, it was a bit of a sausage fest.

And that was a bit of a shame, really.

I mean, this one was just like him and Nish, I think.

Tom Neenan?

Tom Neenan was there.

Yeah.

Jez?

Jez Schaff?

Now, you can't imagine us being cool, can you, James?

No.

But I remember.

They were cool.

Tom Williams, who was in Footlights,

told me that the first time he saw all of us arrive, because we all had long hair and ripped jeans on, he said it looked like we were in a band.

Fucking hell.

What?

That is cool.

Not the three of you.

I've seen folks of the three of you.

And you know how I constantly talk about what you, Nish, and Tom used to look like at university?

The three farmers from Fantastic Mr.

Fox.

So

imagine how dweeby the footlights were if we looked like we were in a band.

We were very, very uncool, I think.

There was a look, there was a way that people dressed that came before.

I was like, this is so bad.

Like, it was fleece and jeans.

Right.

I was like, come on, guys.

Come on.

Blazer with everything as well.

That was the other thing.

Blazer is sort of somehow becoming in a sort of weird way.

But I used to wear...

Increasingly, my friends now tell me how poorly I was, how poorly I dressed at university.

Here's one, a hoodie with a blazer over the top.

That was was a kind of

days here.

Oh, just really bad.

None of this was big on the catman scene.

I mean, so, I mean, we were starting from a very lowly place in terms of like

what's cool.

But to be honest, I thought they were cool.

We were the bad boys of the streets.

They were the bad boys, yeah.

And then

the third group was Dublin, right?

Yeah, I think that was just before I started the Dublin crew, but that was Ashling B was in the Dublin sketch crew.

And their thing was called H-Bam.

H-BAM, yeah.

Which stood for how babies are made.

Correct.

But I don't know what that means really as a thing.

Like, I don't...

You don't need to do it.

Why have they approached it?

That's a very funny name.

Well, I like it.

How are the funny things?

Sketch comedy?

I don't know.

That's what they're implying.

They're like, well, we're a sketch comedy group, or to put it another way, the method by which babies are made.

I really don't know,

like, it doesn't appear to be referential in any way to the fact that

they're a group.

What are the footlights about?

What type of footlights are?

From the 1890s or something.

The footlights is a type of light that you have at the front of the stage and looks back at it.

It's hilarious.

Well, it's not hilarious.

I'm not saying it's hilarious.

I'm not, I don't want light joke.

I don't want things to be funny.

I want them to make sense.

That's what I'm saying.

I'm not.

As long as they could be called any, they could be called like the potatoes.

That's fine.

That's

well, maybe not.

But like, like i you know sometimes you get

was it you get stand-up nights that are called things like what's the name for stand-up night like um yeah uh surprisingly cheap is that one

see that's a self-referential it's funny it makes it's like here's our stand-up night or as i call it surprisingly cheap funny here's a sketch night or as i call it how babies are made

just i just don't know that means and also they've turned it into a kind of acronym as well so it's like an even further level of like that's even better now because people have to go what's h-bam stand for they'd be told it stands for how babies are made and they're like funny you see yeah it's a funny reveal it's funny it's a bit funny it's funny in the way it's funny in the way that the band biffy cliro are funny because they used to have a band pen that had cliff richard on it which was known as the cliffy biro yeah and then they started calling it the biffy cliro yes and so it's kind of like

i didn't know that that is funny i'd say it's i'd say it's like

it it's it's it's diverting i mean i i'm not you know, I'm not having a go at HB.

It sounds like you're having a go.

I'm not sure I'm having a go.

I'm not sure they're a going concern.

I think you can observe them.

Yeah, well, as you would have observed, I'm staying then moved on.

If you want to know your student sketch company, they then moved on and turned into a group called Los Albatros.

Oh, okay.

See, that's

yeah, that's okay.

You prefer it?

I prefer that.

Doesn't have anything to do with what they're doing, though.

It does.

I can't remember what that stands for, but it's a really long thing.

But there's something

about

how babies are made implies that it does have something to do with something, whereas Los Albatross obviously

is just a name that's been put across in a creative way.

Like it could be.

I think if you had...

But if how babies are made is sex.

So they're making out like what they're doing is akin to sex.

That's how good they're creating.

I just thought, I always assumed how babies are made, sex, that's funny.

I think, yes, I suppose

sex is funny.

You might be doing it at a phone party.

Yeah.

Well, exactly.

I suppose

if you had a PR agency and it was called Los Albatross, I'd be like, yeah, okay, I get that.

Like, who's doing your advertising campaign?

Oh, these new cool kids, Los Albatross, fine.

Who's your advertising company?

How babies are made?

Yes, whatever.

It just isn't really.

It's just not the name of anything.

Why are you changing what they are?

To make your point.

I'm trying to get a handle on.

I'm just trying to get a handle on why it's irritating me so much.

The people that you guys all thought were cool weren't how babies are made it was the dummy the durham review what i think

it is a bit we were cool the dummy movie apparently you were cool i thought they were

to the hoodie blazer brigade you were

yeah we were we were cool the the years before us they were a bit a bit disgusting the durham review okay they used to pride themselves on being disgusting disgusting they used to play a game called it's the food podcast we can talk about this yeah they used to play a game they're very proud of called upy uppi tomato tomato i don't know if you ever witnessed that happen no upi uppi tomato tomato Yeah, so they'd all coming tomatoes like your ass?

I mean not far, not far off, just pop around the front.

So there was a, what they'd do is they'd,

one person would take a bite of a tomato and rub it on their testicles, and then they'd throw it in the air and shout, uppi-uppie, tomato, tomato.

And the next person had to catch it, take a bite and rub it on their balls and they'd throw it in the air.

I'm sorry,

I don't get the point of that game, but Joe absolutely loves it.

Oh, I love it.

Absolutely.

He's gone from this mouth.

Oh, that's fantastic.

He demands logic and sense in the world.

Uppy, uppi, tomato, tomato, and being absolutely in his element.

Who's handling your PR this season?

Uppy, up, tomato, tomato.

Fine.

No questions asked.

The PR company's joke.

Does it work as the name of a PR company?

If it does, it can be the name of something else.

If it doesn't, it can't be the name of anything.

Okay, okay.

Fairly done.

So if you had a PR company called The Beatles, that'd be fine.

That's so interesting.

okay well the Beatles is yeah I mean actually when you think about it an appalling name this is I mean really really really appalling it's because all the bands at that time were doing puns on the word beat they were called things like the mersey beats and it took me

just this doesn't matter but it took me realize what it took me years

to realize that it was a pun What is how do you how do you win a PRP tomato tomato I don't think it's not

there's no winners.

Longer they're just being disgusting.

The more you're eating each other's balls.

Yeah, I think so.

Oh, my God.

So that's your starter covered.

That's it.

Happy Appy Tomato Tomato.

Oh, yeah, you're in the

in the footlights.

Still spanking the planks, still treading the boards?

Very much so.

And in other news,

not only am I treading the boards, but I'm also in a play.

Oh,

it's

happy tomato, tomato.

It's happy up, tomato, tomato.

It's funny, isn't it?

We've been talking a lot about how you don't like the names of all these things.

But yeah, wait a minute.

What's the name of my play?

I would ask you, Jonas, what's in a name?

What's in a name?

What is in a name?

Well,

if you want to know

the name of the play,

it's not my People Go What's Play called?

What's in a Name?

Well, I don't know why you've been so funny.

Can't you just tell me what the play is called?

Yeah, so it's what's in a name.

And

it is really funny.

It's about names.

It's about what names you call your.

To be honest, I would say it is quite like sketch comedy.

Like, it is kind of like, it begins as an argument about whether you can call your baby Adolph,

which would, you know, you wouldn't be out of place at a little sketch night as a sort of idea for sketch, I don't think.

And

it kind of carries on from there.

I mean,

it is genuine.

It's quite short.

So that's a tick.

That's a tick, as far as I'm concerned.

Joe, this is the worst drama I've ever heard.

Short in any way.

I know what people think of the theatre, and they think, oh, for fuck's sake,

I don't want to go and see that.

It's so boring.

It's the waste of an evening.

I can't go for dinner.

I'd rather watch television.

What I'm saying is, this is a bit like television because it's genuinely funny and a bit like sketch comedy.

And it's short.

Yes.

And it's got people in it who have been on the television.

So you can be a bit like, oh, it's a bit like television after all.

Who's the rest of the cast?

Okay, two of them are dropped out.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Great.

Should I do them?

Yeah,

it's dropped out.

Laura Patch, she's in afterlife.

It's really funny.

Yeah, yeah.

Bit of a plug for that.

Yeah.

Still in afterlife, no longer in my play.

Yeah.

Summer Strallin.

Yeah.

Still a big Western star, no longer in my play.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Bo Porre

in Miranda.

Okay.

Still in the play.

Still in the play.

Good.

What a bow.

Joe Thomas.

That's you.

In-betweeners, etc.

Still in the play.

Yes.

Are you in the in-betweeners?

Don't mind a bit of it, mate.

Pretty cool.

Yeah.

Would you encourage people?

You probably rarely get people shouting catchphrases to you

from the show.

Is that what you'd like at that point?

That's what I'd like.

Pre-im during and after the show?

That's what I'd like.

And if they could never call me Joe.

Yeah.

Never call me Joe.

Only call me Simon.

That's why I did it.

I wanted to lose my sense of who I am.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Congrats.

That's.

I doesn't, you know, know, it doesn't matter.

Yeah.

It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter what they call you.

I had this idea of who I was.

Doesn't matter.

I'm someone else now in everyone else's eyes.

So just go with that.

Cool.

And where's the picture?

And

I was going to say Alex Gomond, who again, big West End star.

Alex and Summer, big Western stars.

As I say, Summer not in it anymore.

Yeah, sure.

Not in any way.

Me, Beau, Laura, three big TV stars.

Laura not in it anymore.

Yeah.

It is honestly really funny.

And I was going to say that because I know that a lot of people think the plays are shit and they're not funny.

But this play

actually,

not everyone thinks that.

And in a way, it's weird that I should suggest that that is a prevailing opinion.

I've never heard a promo contain the word honestly so many times before.

So

it's short, not shit, and has got the remnants of a really excellent cast.

So you've done 60

performances already.

Already.

At what point did the two people drop out?

They dropped out after 60.

60, yes.

Yes, that's fine.

So you've done those performance.

It's a recasting.

It's an extension of a tour.

Yes.

Because it was successful.

This is going to need some editing, to be honest.

No.

Still on sparkling water, Joe?

Sparkling.

Sparkling water.

Publums on bread.

Publums on bread, Joe.

Poplums on bread.

Bread, please.

Why?

It's more versatile.

I haven't made Indian choices, so I just understand about popping.

They are really not.

I mean, sure, they are lovely, but I just think it's a bit bonkers having at the beginning of a meal that isn't, you know, an Indian meal.

So I, I, much as I am with you on,

you know, always offering them, I would say

I would say bread.

What?

Bread.

What type of bread, Joe?

I quite like

almost like quite sweet, cakey bread.

Okay.

Like that really dark bread that's almost maybe got a bit of malts in it or something.

That's really nice.

Like a dark rye bread or a drink.

A dark rye bread but with a bit of almost with a bit of sweetness in it as well.

The other one I love is

a chia batter.

Just that one with all the oil that's like salty.

That's lovely.

And also, I have to say, I genuinely, this is, I've for a long time, said

these two things: my favourite food is butter and my favourite taste is salt.

Yes, well, I'm completely.

And I am, and I think there was a Netflix show on recently called Salt, Fat, Acid, Heat, which is basically saying that I'm right on two of those things.

And the only reason I'm not right on the other two is because I haven't bothered to turn my mind to those other two categories yet.

Salt, fat,

bosh.

So I was right.

And that

was one of the few things that I left university being like I know that that's something I know that you like butter I love butter

so with bread the reason I would the reason I would say bread is really an opportunity to eat a lot of butter sure

and I think that

I don't think we'll ever see butter disappear completely because I just think it's just too good.

It's too damn nice.

Yeah.

Do you feel the same about other sort of dairy products, or do you think butter is the king of the dairy?

Because I think

milk's on the way out, I think milk is on the way out.

Also, I know quite a lot of vegetarians quite a bit.

I drink a pint of milk last night, did you?

Yeah, oh, just a just a pint of milk for me then.

Yeah,

I remember it was a menu night, I'd forgotten it was in the fridge.

That is a lot of pint of milk, yeah, yeah.

Drank the whole thing, well, in one go, you're down.

Yeah, well, here's the thing: it was actually a two-pinter and it was half full.

That's half-okay, and I thought I'm gonna polish this off.

I don't know, yeah.

i think milk i think milk is on the way out i also think i know i actually i know quite a lot of vegetarians and vegans um and i'm still a completely like like unenlightened carnivore basically but meat i've started eating a lot less meat i got that ottolenghi book yeah that he uses yogurt all the time eggs I just don't miss it.

I could see me not having meat.

I really can see me not having meat.

Cheese, I think, is a problem area.

I know vegan cheese has got a lot better.

Probably butter is the king of dairy.

I do think, because you can't, it's the base for other things.

You don't, why are scrambled eggs so nice?

Butter.

Yeah.

Why are even something random?

Snails.

Why are snails so nice?

Butter, basically.

Why is roast chicken nice?

Because you put fucking butter under the breast, didn't you?

Yeah.

Didn't you.

Joe?

Is that to you?

Is that to me?

Yeah.

Weirdly self-hating attitude.

So

when you're cooking a roast chicken, you say, you'll say, why is is that so nice?

Yeah, I go.

Because you put the butter under the breast, didn't you?

Joe?

Yeah, I go.

Why did you say that?

I mean, what was it?

I go,

I see you.

Yes.

Don't try and seduce me.

Is that you've seen yourself in the oven door there?

I saw myself in the oven door.

When you said, why is that chicken toastized?

Because you put a bunch of butter under the breast, didn't you?

I didn't think, who's he addressing?

Yeah, yeah.

And then you seem to think, there was a look in your face that was like, oh, no.

I've not done this properly.

I think it's a third party addressing me

i think that's the that's the truth

somebody yeah yeah it's some kind of so you're playing a character puritan somebody saying

i you you little fucker you little like you disgusting little worm you disgusting little eating just uh butter is it yeah yeah that'll be good for you you'll regret it tomorrow i don't know but also i have to say i think i mean skin under the skin on top of the breast top of the breast under the skin.

That's nice.

Not under the breast.

On the carcass.

Yeah, under the breast.

That's just on the bones.

That's just, yeah.

Over the breast.

Butter in the bones.

Butter the bones?

I tell you what, I wouldn't put it past butter to even improve bones.

Yeah.

Would you like it?

I wouldn't.

I think there is a guy who can do anything.

Yeah.

For your bread course, do you even want bread?

We can bring you out loads of butter.

Yeah, frankly, I mean, that's a good question.

Have you ever eaten straight butter?

No, but I've got to the point where I've had a cheese where I've been like, that's so close to butter.

You know, if you'd have said to me,

upon bringing out some butter, here's a new cheese,

I would have said, yeah, that's fine.

I probably would have eaten it.

So, yeah, I mean,

I think just eating butter on its own is that's getting a little bit too weird.

There's something

prurient and perverse about that.

But if it was like

if someone's got their head in this room now, I'm just like, the world's going to end in five minutes.

Oh, I see.

No, to be honest,

if we have to.

I think what I will do is put an amount of butter onto a crumpet or toast that is just way too high.

But I mean, I really don't think there's an upper limit to how much.

But I do that

behind closed doors.

Behind closed doors.

I'm slamming on huge pats of butter.

Like, there's no.

It's also, I mean, I think if you, you know, to go to

a Michelin-styled restaurant,

I think a lot of the secret of that is just a fuckload of butter with everything.

Yeah, butter's the gift.

You can see it's just everywhere.

Why is that meat so nice?

Butter.

Yeah.

So, I mean, I think it's like.

I mean, I could go on, but I'm only thinking that one.

All sentence.

Are you saying that to her?

Butter.

Okay.

When you said crumpets, then it made me just think how much.

I think for me, my favourite thing to have butter on is crumpets.

I think I would rather have crumpets than bread.

How do you like that, Ed?

You have your choice.

Fine.

But here's why I don't think a crumpet is a good thing to put butter on because it leaches butter.

It does leach butter.

It wastes butter.

It goes straight through, and then you've got pulls of butter on the plate.

But I think it's almost a kind of inbuilt, like, you're never going to kill yourself because it will get rid of any butter it can't hold.

It'll reach saturation point.

And then the bit beyond that.

Or do you think it's like...

I think that's why they're designed like that i think it's uh it's an inbuilt so it's like when you know when you have a baroca and what it does is it puts your calcium levels up to the highest they can be and then you piss and your vitamin c's yeah so if you have a vitamin c tablet it gives you like a 10 times as much vitamin c as you need but you just and you just piss it all out like your your your so the crumpet is the bloody is there's a kidney among breads

by me you can have a crumpet if you want in the dream restaurant as your break to be honest i'm i the problem with this is that i know i have honestly, I've had this conversation many times, my dream meal.

And the problem is, is like, I take it, I do take food very seriously, and I was aware, so I've tried to make my choices

divertingly amusing.

But the truth is,

there is another whole side where I would just take it incredibly seriously and be like, well, no, I'm not going to fuck around.

And I would just bosh it out.

But I mean, I think...

Crumpers is one thing that hadn't.

I mean, breakfast, I over.

The point is you overlook breakfast as well when you say like final meal.

I suppose some people might have said an English breakfast.

Have you ever had that?

You had breakfast?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

Jess Phillips did breakfast for dinner.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

So, I mean, within that, I mean, there are, you know, there's a multiplicity of options.

And

with

a crumpet,

another thing I would recommend is that,

and I mean, this is something that

I discussed with my partner recently where she said, it's just like a big bleenie, isn't it?

And I was like,

you know, my god, darling, you're right.

And

as a result of that, I would argue a bleanie is a mini crumpet.

Yeah, okay.

But a really nice thing to have on a crumpet, and this is something you might like for breakfast anyway.

You know, cream, cheese, and salmon.

Yes.

Have that on a fucking crumpet, mate.

Have that on a fucking crumpet.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, yeah.

Jesus Christ.

Yeah.

Come on.

Yeah, yeah.

Have a cream, cheese, and salmon on a crumpet.

Come on.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I mean, for fuck's sake, do you want me to hold your fucking hand?

Yeah.

Don't shit yourself.

Have on a fucking crumpet.

Yeah.

Well, you're scared.

What are you thinking is going to fucking happen?

Yeah.

We need to narrow down this bread course, Joe.

So you're having bread.

Cheer batter.

Chia batter.

I'll have the batter as well, thanks, despite the oil.

Yeah, okay, yeah, fine.

I'll have the dark multi-rie bread, and I'll have...

Why not?

A lovely, just the springy, classic, white doughy bread.

There you go.

All in a little basket.

All in the basket, please.

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So we're coming to your starter.

Okay, so I'm going to sub this in if I may.

I don't know whether I'm allowed to, but you know, in Italian restaurants, you get a you get premium secondi.

I never do that.

I don't know.

Okay, what's weird?

Whenever a British person goes to an Italian restaurant, they never have any of the secondi.

They never have a second dough,

if I may.

And also at this point, I would say I have a friend who, you know, when you go to Cafe Cafe Nero and you get a panini,

what panini is plural, mate, you get a panino, uh-huh.

Okay, so that's just that's just for my

mate, um,

uh, who told me that, and I just think that's never really got enough credit.

I don't know if it's not that's not that fucking hard.

If you go to

heart, if you go to Cafe Nero, do you still have a panino?

Yeah, yeah, I do.

Um, yeah, and if a great panino, yeah, how does that go down?

Uh, they

I think they respect me.

I think so.

Yeah.

So in an Italian restaurant, a premium second, there'd be like starters and then like, is it the second?

So no, no, yeah, so exactly.

So

to Brit,

you know, pasta is a meal, and rightly so.

But in Italian restaurants, they always want you to have a pasta first and then something else.

Veal,

which no one ever gets.

But if this really is my last meal, I mean, I don't know.

is not your last meal.

We've never implied it's your last meal, okay?

Okay, I think I'm muddling it up with uh

another conversation I had.

Yeah, sure, sure, that's fine.

Which is that is that understandable?

Yes, it is, yeah.

We're not your last meal.

And maybe even in that, it wasn't my last meal.

Well, let's say that it's my, it's my, it's my last meal.

And for the, for the purposes of introducing a

dish that means something to me,

I'm going to go for pasta as a starter pasta.

I love it.

And you know, this is boring.

This is boring.

But I am just going to say, because I've had, if you added together all the times I've had this meal,

it would be the same number as every other type of meal I've had added together.

The name of that meal.

Spaghetti magnets.

When I left university and I lived with Simon Bird and Johnny Sweet, Happy years of my life.

I don't know why that had to end.

I don't know why that had to end.

Yes, they've got wives and children.

Why can't we all still live in Lambeth North together?

Yeah.

I love that.

Yeah.

I fucking love those.

Those two have started a company together.

They have, yeah.

Still?

Yeah, etc.

and so on.

Oh, they're still close.

Yeah.

What happened to the spaghetti barnetts boys?

That gang.

Why does anything have to change?

Yeah.

Why is the 90s four decades ago?

No, it's not.

It's not, is it?

Not really.

It is actually isn't, to be fair.

I mean, it's um.

Yeah.

don't let this disrupt your flow.

Yeah, why

it's not, it's 20, 20, 20 something.

You know, it's like it's 20, 20 within with within 21 years in either direction, in well, only in one direction.

It's 2020 now, it is, isn't it?

Yeah, so how many, how many years have you got to go back to get to that?

20 years ago is 20, isn't it?

Does that help him?

Well, because also, the year 2000 was a year, so depends what year.

2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009.

By the end of of 2009, that's 10 years since the millennium.

By the end of 2019,

that's 20 years since the millennium.

So yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah, so now we're now in 20 years.

So yeah, so it's

20 years plus whatever we've had of this year,

plus however far back you want to go into the 90s.

One day,

you're in the 90s.

You're in the 90s.

One day back.

One day back.

New Year's Eve.

New Year's Eve.

Yeah, beginning of New Year's Eve.

It's the morning of December 31st,

1999.

Yep.

Is that when you would like the meal to be set?

I wouldn't mind the meal.

I mean, my food for me is about,

you know, specific.

Well, actually, is it?

No, I mean, well, no, there's two.

Obviously, like...

I've never met you before, Joe.

You are.

I didn't know you'd not met Joe before.

It's an absolute mess.

If I'd known you'd not met Joe before,

I would have been so excited for this meeting.

But I'm so happy I'm watching it all and

having a very nice time.

There was a nostalgia to the period of my life where, I mean, it's a when I lived with Sony Johnny and we lived in a flat in Lambeth North in London, years which, as I say, I don't believe ever had to end.

We would have, I'd cook them, so we get barnetts four nights a week.

Two nights a week, we'd also get a Caminara, and then on the seventh night, we'd have

bangers and mash.

Yeah.

And then, in addition to that,

we would have, I think basically every night,

two bottles of red wine for a Fiverr.

I mean, it was a Franner.

It was like a Fiverr.

But anyway, it was perfectly serviceable, like Val Policella, like Plonk.

So we get like fairly hammered every night and eat this vast meal of

one days.

And I

basically think

that was like a glorious...

That's just a glorious thing.

Like it was...

We'd just be the whole...

We'd all be like sweating.

i mean that thing where you just got to the point in the meal we are just like

kind of can't even really speak anymore every night pretty much every night it was it was uh it was uh yeah like um i mean it was just you know that was that's how you should eat it's amazing how the young body can handle pasta you can just complete you can just handle it you just burn i used to just i used to eat pans and pans of pasta i couldn't eat a bowl of pasta now without feeling it in the next two days yeah yeah yeah feel Feel it straight away.

Yeah.

So spaghetti bolognese to start, made by your own fair hand?

I would say probably made by me, yeah.

Yeah.

Were you the bolognese king?

I was, yeah.

I mean, I would never order a spaghetti bolognese because I know that I can make it to within like, I don't know, a percentile of...

Normally it's worse if I order it.

Normally it's worse than what I can do.

And even if it's...

a tiny bit better, I'm like, well, there are many things that, you know, this chef could do much better than I can do.

This is the only thing.

You've got him, Mario.

Yeah, I've got it.

So it's the only thing that I and

So I suppose I yeah, I would I guess I would I would make I mean I should have said I like I like cooking so I suppose if I was to have a dream meal I might be

Maybe involved in the cooking.

Yeah, as well

Were you the cook out the three?

Oh, very much so.

I was the cook.

I can't

I was I was the cookie

and the bangers and mash as well.

I did all the carbon and the bangers of mash, yeah.

I did.

And this.

So the reason why the menu was just those those three things over and over again.

Because you're just saying.

It was up to me, yeah.

I think the reason they moved out is because, like, I do know, I think Johnny was genuinely worried about, like, heart stuff and, like, sort of.

I mean, it was actually like, we can't go on eating like this.

We can't, we, you can't do this.

Um, like, he'd changed physically.

His family, he went back to his family.

They were like, you've physically changed.

And he was like, this Joe.

I will say this as well.

Here's maybe where Johnny was.

This might explain some of Johnny's worries by the end of that period living in the house the bolognese also contained as one of its ingredients cream

so

which I liked

because

I think

I think I

I think I remember that when I was

a kid, we used to have bolognese made for us by like

by some friends of our family.

And I think that had cream in it.

I just think it did.

It turns it a kind of duskier brown, and it makes it smoother and a bit milder.

And actually,

tomatoes do have

tomatoes need a bit of balancing.

Quite often in a tomato dish, it will tell you to add sugar.

That's That's we mentioned Osolenghi.

There's often a bit of sugar in there or something sweet.

Just tomatoey, it's quite acidy.

It's quite you do actually want it's quite a kind of high-acidy flavor, so you do want something sometimes to mellow out a bit.

We all know that bonnets often has a tiny bit of sugar in it or something sweet.

Should it also have cream in?

Yes.

So you would like your starter to be your cream.

For old time's sake.

For obviously a small portion, a primo portion.

Primo Crimo.

Primo Crimo.

Primo Cremo Bolognese.

Yeah.

Weirdly made by me.

Made by you.

Yeah.

And we're back in the year is...

99?

No, I'm not that old.

I'm not quite that old.

But I guess

2006, 7.

I suppose what I'm really referring to is the long 90s,

the era that maybe we'd say came to an end with the financial pre-financial crash.

Pre-financial crash.

There was still, I feel like there was an era where it was just generally a more hedonistic era, which I think is now definitely fucking over.

No one's creaming their bolognese.

No one's creaming their bolognese now.

They're not even making boganaise, which is fine, because to be fair, I'm aware that the meat thing

is a bit of a disaster.

So, you know, probably stop burning down the Amazon and then blaming it on Leonardo DiCaprio, I guess.

That's also addressed to me.

I mean, I guess we're going to ask you what your main course is now.

Yeah, probably just for the reasons of time.

Yeah, but

I'm enjoying this.

I do, to be honest, I don't...

I do spend quite a lot of time on my own.

So, I mean, it's just nice to

see you guys.

That's why the main person you address is yourself, I don't know.

It's had a bit of an impact, yeah.

That's why I've seen to have split myself into

a sort of interrogator and interrogatee.

Main course, right?

This is another meat option.

This is also a dish that I'm going to prepare.

Okay.

There's something that I call 24-hour lamb.

24-hour lamb.

And this is a lamb that you cook by burying it with a a fire in a hole.

And I did this

burying it with a fire in a hole.

With it, initially with a fire.

So that it's in there with the fire.

Okay, you light a fire.

Yep.

You put the lamb in.

Yes.

Okay.

Then you bury it.

Great.

Okay, basically, that's how you do it.

Now, I did this about 10 years ago.

There was one summer where I was

living with my parents, and I sort of really became really just like this, just for like one time, like really genuinely quite good friends with like one of the local dads who lives in the village.

So he was like my mate's dad.

He's called Neil.

But it was a bit like, that's my mate Neil.

So I suppose he's about, I suppose, about 50, I was about 25.

But it was a nice...

It was the gent, it was a, there was nothing, you know, I wasn't like a toy boy.

Like, it was, it was a, it was a perfectly lovely friendship.

Just friends with your mate's dad.

Just friends with my mate's dad.

And I'm my remain friends with Neil now.

And

he's a good.

it's not as weird as being in love with someone.

No.

No.

We'd be quite nice, actually.

Yeah, but

completely mates with your mate's dad.

So basically, he'd wanted to do this for a while.

And I'd seen, or it's whose idea was it?

It was perhaps even my idea, but I certainly remember seeing a program on television.

I'm just starting to laugh because I'm just remembering that this story is clearly building towards you and your mate's dad digging a hole

in the garden and cooking a lamb in it or whatever.

It was um

yeah yeah yeah um it was um as I say, you know, it was in fact it wasn't summer, it was Christmas time because we went to

it was some sort of romantic time of year.

Yeah.

I'd seen a programme on television that was called uh Willie's Perfect Chocolate Christmas.

Now the thing is in which this lamb thing had been done now the thing is it wasn't really a recipe program.

What's Willie's Perfect chocolate program?

Okay, I'll tell you what it was like.

It was like, you know, Kirstie, like Kirstie's Christmas.

You know Phil and Kirstie, you do like the property stuff.

She does programmes at Christmas where it's like, it's a bit of cookery, but it's not really like, it's not really a cookie.

They're not that specific about the recipes.

It's more like tips and at the same time it's like her just like making a house look nice and like making

decorations.

So it was the recipe was at sort of that level of distance from like specifically what he was actually doing.

And also I kind of, it was one of those frames that you kind of like catch where i was like oh yeah i think he i think he was doing something like and sort of this is me so neil now yeah

he dug a pit he put a fire in it and then he got a load of hay that he'd kind of kind of made a bit damp yeah and he put that on top of the fire so the fire wasn't too harsh yeah then he put the lamb which i think he'd seasoned or something i remember them putting some herbs and stuff in Again, I sort of seen it.

I was like, I don't know what's that?

It could be rosemary.

It could be anything.

And in a way, it's not really a beta with his family really yeah

um

um so um who's willie

well okay so this is the thing so having watched this program

i really identified with willie yeah to a certain extent i was like i think i'm i'm a sort of willie yeah you're a willie i'm i'm a willie figure yeah yeah like i'm i'm i'm i'm a guy like that i'm a guy who is he i'm an affable guy yeah okay he was a guy who i think this might be totally wrong i think he might have been a sort of chocolate entrepreneur.

I think he might have owned

Willie's Perfect Chocolate Christmas.

Willie's Perfect Chocolate Christmas.

I think what you'll find is that he said

he said

The point is, he was a nice guy.

And he was having a big party for his friends and family.

And also,

does it even exist?

Willie Harcourt Coos.

Yeah, there you go.

Here it is.

About the show.

Chocolate enthusiast Willie Harcourt Coos is back to show everyone that when it comes to chocolate, consumers deserve the best.

Yeah.

And it doesn't say anything about lamb.

Well, and when it comes to lamb,

some people deserve a standard of lamb.

Anyway, so basically,

fire in the hole, dampe, lamb, seasoned in a Hessian sack, on top of that, fill it in.

Everyone basically,

in fact, actually, that is done the night before.

The next day, 24 hours later, people are starting to arrive.

There's a lot of anticipation.

And Willie, who's like an eccentric, but but like, it's like, oh, what's he done now?

This is

mental.

And his wife was like, oh, there was a bit.

So the neighbours called the police because it looked like he was disposing of a body.

So I was like, that's cool.

So he's like a cookie, cookie cool guy.

And

then the neighbours came around and basically the lamb was dug up.

It was quite sort of triumphant.

And it was, I'm almost certain the phrase falling off the bone would have been used.

And this, like, it was fucking nice.

Basically, it was fucking nice.

And it looked nice.

It looked nice.

Was it actually nice?

No way of knowing.

Was that the focus of the show?

No.

Did he really tell you how to do it?

No.

Had I briefly caught part of that show?

Yes.

Did I know Neil?

Yes.

Did Neil's sister live on a farm and could get us a lamb?

Yes.

Did we drive to the farm?

Yes.

Was it snowing when we drove to the farm?

Yes.

It was that night.

It was about 2009.

Uh-huh.

2009.

Yeah.

Three decades ago, if we're using that fucking football podcast rubric.

Yeah, I mean, don't get tricky about it.

You're the one who introduced that.

Well, I just think it's bollocks.

I mean, I just, it's not.

In the 90s, it's not four decades ago.

It's just over two decades ago.

Yeah, we've established that.

It's 20 years ago.

Okay, 28.

So it's just stupid.

It's depending on how long it's going to be.

It's a stupid, tricky thing to go.

It's like somebody going to me, like, next year you'll turn 38.

You don't need to say that.

Okay.

I know it's true.

I'm 36 now.

Sure.

Okay, so you're basically

getting another year.

37 this year and then you're speaking in two.

You're using a year in a different way.

Yeah, you're using year.

Yes, exactly.

Yes, exactly.

Thank you.

You're using year as a marker rather than a

exactly you're saying, yeah, like in a there's a there's a point of the year that comes after this one numerically where you'll actually be two years older.

But you, in you know, if people might think you were two years older than you are now, even that isn't true, sure, okay, yeah, yeah.

I mean, decades and time and age doesn't matter, you can deal with a 50-year-old man.

Yeah, yeah, well, as I say, the point is, as I say, are you drunk?

Are you 50?

Yes, good.

Do I know your son?

Yes.

Do you want to mates with the son?

No, only mates with you.

How old's your son?

My age.

Yeah.

I still choose you.

You chose him.

I chose him.

I didn't know it was a choice.

I was a situation.

Yeah.

Place an advert.

I didn't.

He's genuinely like, genuinely a good man.

A good man.

Yeah.

And

anyway, so we drive.

So

we were driving.

It was this snowstorm.

You know, it was a year.

It was probably 2009.

It was snowing so badly that the rate we were moving at, this was the year where, I don't even remember, like, people were having to like overnight in their cars because they were getting stuck, stuck, even on quite big roads, like the M2.

Yeah.

For example.

For example.

It's the biggest road I can think of.

Yeah.

Can't think of one bigger than that.

If you don't know what a big road is, and me saying like the M2 also hasn't helped you, I'm just going to have to not understand that.

Sure.

Okay, fine.

We were driving to Neil's sister's farm.

But the road we were going.

It was just you.

It was me, Neil, and also.

A 50-year-old man.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, dead of night in the snow towards a farm.

I think his his daughter

and also

maybe

her mate

of the people in the car had been briefed and told about Willie's perfect chocolate cook

one one Neil Neil

Neil

the other two were

I think I think they're both there anyway So you got the lamb as well?

We got the lamb.

So this was a fucking mission.

So basically we were moving at the speed that, because it was so snowy, we're moving at the speed that like henry viih moves at in wolf hall when he's like on horseback so like we got from essex to milton keynes in about like five or six hours like it was a day's it was like a day's ride yeah you know wolf hall where it's like after a hard day's riding they'd made it from kent up to lunch i don't know what you're on about i don't know what wolf hall is

oh

Not interested in the Book of Prize.

Your reference points are all over the place, Joe.

We've had the Premier League, Wolf Hall, and Willie's Perfect Chocolate Christmas.

But also, as I've established, I'm only addressing myself.

Yeah, so I know.

I know.

So basically, we were going at a kind of medieval pace, the pace where you'd have to stop to get fresh horses.

So that added an element to it that, for me, made it better.

You love it.

Time with Neil, basically.

Yeah, yeah.

Time your best mate.

Time's your best friend.

Got there, got the lamb.

Point is about a lamb is that it's not really a lamb, it's a massive, dead, young sheep.

Yes.

Okay,

so that goes in the back of the car.

Did it smell?

Yes.

What did it smell of?

Blood.

Yeah.

Did it kick up a bit?

Yes.

I can't remember whether it was...

We overnighted.

I'm going to keep using the verb overnight.

We overnighted at his sister's farm.

Then we drove out the next day.

I think it was probably a bit of an easier journey back.

Now it came to bury the lamb.

The garden we chose to bury it in was not my parents' back garden.

Garden.

We buried it in a garden.

In a garden.

I thought you were doing it on the farm.

No, no, that was together.

No, no, no, no.

Because the point about Willie is he's a village character.

So we had to come back to our village so we could invite...

Well, you had to be like Willie.

Yes.

You couldn't just eat the light.

You wanted the party like Willie.

I mainly wanted to be like Willie.

I wanted to party like it's

like it's 1999.

Like I'm Willie and it's 1999.

Yeah.

You don't just want to eat this.

You see it go on.

It's not only about the fun.

I'd love to tell you.

It turns out I'm more interested in preparing for it to other people, actually.

It's about the display.

It's about the display.

It's about me having friends near.

So whose garden did you bury it in?

We buried it in the...

So, as I say, not my back garden, not the back garden house that Neil,

he was literally a homeowner, lived in, but just the back garden of one of the other local mums who was like known to be a bit of a soft touch.

Like she was, she was the

mum where

whenever there was a party with like,

when we were at school, where it was just like 20 adolescent boys, no girls, which was the only part I ever went to, it was always at her house.

Because it was like...

You don't even need to make a comparison.

I think we all know the old phrase.

You know her.

She'd let you bury a laminar back

Exactly.

Exactly.

A 50-year-old man and his childfriend buried a lamb in her back.

Because they saw, well, he's perfect.

So basically, we

could see, I mean, when we arrived with the lamb, I think we were basically late with the lamb because of the snow.

We got there.

My brother was there.

Giles was there.

Giles is the son of

the woman who was like, his mum was like...

Soft, soft touch.

Soft touch.

He was,

yeah.

um soft touch she's yeah so they're there ready to help you back

so greg and giles is there and we arrive and they're the the fire's lit the the the the pit is ready

they dug the pit the pit for us really would dig his own pit

i wasn't great i was pissed off i wanted to get the pit as well i wanted to like i was because we were late backward from the from the snow and everything and like They dug the pit, they lit the fire, and then they were putting the hay on.

It seemed a bit wet, but it was like there was a steam coming up.

But I said, put that in.

Then we put the lamb in, buried it.

In a sack?

I think we did have a Hessian sack.

I think we genuinely have a Hessian sack.

And it, you know, we'd put bits of rosemary in it and all the rest of it.

Um, probably garlic.

Yeah.

I mean,

just definitely, we would have done.

Yeah.

Um,

fucking definitely.

Yeah.

Um, buried it, came out the next day.

Uh, so now there's um Charles's mum, soft touch, soft touch,

soft touch is there, soft touch lamb lady, yeah.

Um, my mum's there, Neil's wife is there,

probably thinking you're spending a bit too much time

with

his

young friend.

They're burying it out.

Um, my dad's a little bit of a girl.

You're jealous of Neil's wife, of course.

Yeah, I'm like, what the fuck's she doing?

Why aren't you standing next to me?

I thought this was

why are you standing next to her?

Why are you standing next to her at the lamb funeral?

Yeah, sorry, what's this conversation about?

Yeah.

Sorry, no, I don't mean to butt in, just what are you talking about?

Yeah.

Veg has been prepared, roasted veg.

Yeah.

A lot of anticipation.

I am basically like, I'm Willie.

Out we go.

Shout out to the lamb.

So Willie.

Like,

I can't see like obvious smoke or steam, but like, it's fine.

We dig it up, peel back the Hessian sacking.

It's exactly the same.

It's exactly, it's just raw.

I mean, it's exactly the fucking same.

It's just like, hasn't changed.

It hasn't changed.

So, anyway, we

get it out.

Neil is in pieces.

Neil's just literally like, we get it back into Elaine's kitchen.

Sorry, Elaine is soft touch.

Soft touch.

So

in a way, I was like, I won't use her name, but then in a way, we just stopped calling her soft touch.

Anyway, I think Elaine went away.

So weirdly, Elaine's also a vet, which is odd.

So it's weird having this thing on the table, this dead animal.

What I would say is that what's the difference between the lamb we got from the farm and the lamb that we've now dug up?

I'll tell you the difference.

Bits of the lamb we've now dug up literally stink of shit.

That is the difference between the lamb.

So basically, in hindsight, there's three things I would suggest.

First of all, when they put the hay on, I was like, that hay isn't damp.

That's like what you'd put on a fire to put it out.

It was just

wet hay, yeah.

Sweat hay.

Basically.

So they just put the fire.

Essentially, dug a fire, put it out.

Essentially, it was like, how do you raise the chicken?

Turn the oven on, heat up the oven to 200.

Actually, it'd probably 180.

Yeah.

Turn the oven off, put the chicken in.

That was basically what had happened.

Fire put out, lamb buried.

Two other facts.

Soft touch told us that

either the night before or maybe the following morning, quite a lot of the local squirrels and local pigeons had been just on the area immediately above the lamb being like

there's something going on here.

What is it?

There's something near that we're interested in.

What is it?

There's food somewhere.

What is it?

And then the third fact I'd say is that when we dug it up, one of Neil's sons said, it smells like museums.

Which I assume means it smells like a mummy.

It smells bad.

Smells bad.

Did Neil's son also then say, Dad, please come home?

Dad, please come home.

When you finish hanging out with the Thomas boys.

He said, first of all, Dad, I'm glad you're still alive.

Can you just.

We just want to know that you're safe.

So is that your main course?

So, sorry.

That's the main course.

A better version of that.

Is there a version of that that works...

Maybe Willie?

Willie's one.

Surely Willie's one.

Okay, Willie's making it.

Willie's making Willie.

That's what I'm doing.

We can't have your lamb zombie as well.

No.

No.

We can't.

No.

Well, you can't have something

that literally stinks of shit probably yeah

so uh so main course rose lamb 24-hour lamb long story short you want a rose lamb you make

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Side dish.

Ideally in three to four words.

I did have some problems with this, but I'm just going to say this because I think this is an under- I don't understand why people don't cook this for themselves more.

It's really nice.

Celeriac mash or cream celeriac.

Why don't people make that for themselves?

Okay.

It's fucking nice.

It's not you can't get celeriac, it's right there.

Yeah.

I think it's a very ugly vegetable and people find it quite thorough.

Yeah, it is a bit ugly.

But I mean...

Item in a soup the other day made a celeriac and parsnip soup.

I think it's bloody nice.

And also celery, to which it's sort of distantly related, is a good seasoning.

Famously in your kind of

what's the base of Italian sauces where you have carrot, etc., onion.

What's the five?

The five thing, onion, leek,

garlic, celery, carrot.

Is that it?

I think that's it.

And that tends to make up the fritto.

I think that's what I mean.

Sometimes it's three, sometimes it's five.

Celery is always in there, and I think people overlook it.

Celery, salt as well.

Why are we putting this with salt if it's not an interesting flavor?

Answer, because it is an interesting flavour.

Joe.

Joe.

Yeah.

Solariac, an opportunity to get basically a vegetable that's already got its own interesting seasoning.

You probably would still put some butter with it and some salt.

As we know from that Netflix series,

fat and salt are often at the cornerstone of almost anything.

But yeah, that's all I'd say.

I'm sorry, it's less imaginative.

No, no, no.

Is it made by yourself?

I'm not going to.

Well, actually, I've insisted that people should make them, so I would make it myself, yeah.

So I'm making it making it all myself.

Yeah.

I'm not making the bread.

No, Willie's making the bread.

Willie making the lamb.

Willie's making the lamb.

So it's bread first butter.

I'm making Spag Bowl.

Willie's making the lamb.

You're making the spaghet.

I'm very master.

I forgot about the spag bowl.

It's because it was about four hours ago.

Your drink.

Okay, again, unimaginative, but I think probably

just a big gouty red wine.

Yeah, exactly.

Something where other people would go, that's a bit much that.

It just tastes like blood.

That's what I want.

I want the red wine that a vampire would drink.

You want the red wine to taste like the lamb smelt in the boot.

Yes, exactly.

Exactly.

I want to get, I want to drink the red wine that a vampire would drink if he...

was having like blood withdrawal symptoms but just needed something to stop him twitching so like a very like a heavy high alcohol yeah 15 even Yeah.

Like a

Barolo or something, a heavy Italian wine.

Yeah, like a heavy Italian would be great.

Something like that.

In fact, a Barolo is often a medium body, but I almost, I actually think

I'd probably, I might go for a Bordeaux, to be honest.

But basically just something that tastes like blood, basically.

Is anyone else just replaying the lamb story in their head?

Yeah.

I'm imagining.

So I was thinking about so much, even though you gave us so many details, there's so much I don't understand.

Yeah.

For some reason, in my head now, the whole meal's being cooked underground.

Yeah.

The spaghetti got their noses under there, isn't it?

Yeah, the wine underground?

The wine could be underground, yeah.

So,

it's been an emotional journey.

We now arrive at your dessert.

Yeah.

Are you big on desserts?

Big on sweets?

Okay, I have to say...

I'm actually not massively into desserts.

And I know that this is

a prickly area.

To me, you're hungriest when you have the starter.

starter.

I'm not sure you would have, you've heard all this.

You're hungriest when you have the starter.

Hunger is the best source, as I have heard someone say recently.

Source spelt how?

S.

Oh, interesting.

Because it could be the best source of.

They mean S-A-U-C-E.

Source.

But it could be the best source of

pleasure.

Pleasure with you.

I mean,

obviously, you're hungriest when you have

a starter.

So

for me, the

dessert is almost just like also.

I've eaten so much in this mood already,

so I'm probably just gonna go for something like a lemon sorbet.

And the reason for that is that I always

used to want that when we were on holiday.

When I was a this isn't funny, this is just not funny anymore.

When I was a

well, you might you might reply, what do you mean anymore?

but

uh

i always wanted those little coupes of

uh lemon sorbet i know exactly what you mean at a french cafe outside on a hot day they always seem to be like elegant ladies having them and like we couldn't have them as kids because it was like too extravagant and it just looked so nice in there there was nothing else in there but somehow because you saw it through the kind of the glass it made it look like there was something in there other than the sorbet it was just it was beautifully presented, and I just can't think of anything more refreshing.

And I always remember just really wanting that.

And

it's nice when there's something that you couldn't have before.

You're going to need to be refreshed because you're going to be

knacked.

You'd be hands are covered in mud from digging up the lamb.

Yeah.

I've eaten

a huge portion of Spag Bowl.

Yeah, with cream in it.

Whipped cream in it.

Then I've had presumably quite a lot of that lamb.

Well, yeah.

With

a whole piece of celeriac mash for sort of, as far as I can tell, sort of sociological reasons.

And,

you know, I think you'd be lucky to get anything more into it at all.

Sorbet's a good choice in that situation.

It's just a great choice.

Lovely choice.

Yeah.

Nothing wrong with a bit of sorbet.

You know, if you're from France.

Yeah, and I'm sorry there's not more, you know, narrative to go along with that.

Oh, no.

No, that's fine.

But, you know, there's...

I think we're good for narrative.

You're probably good for narrative.

A lot happened

around the main course of this

podcast, and I think that Edwin, I think I speak for myself and Ed, Benito, and the listeners, that we just needed to cool down afterwards.

Yeah, and the sorbet does that literally and roll the car into the garage.

Yeah.

I'm genuinely quite sort of tired, actually.

Yeah, you've really...

Well, I mean, you know.

I'll read your order back to you.

See how you feel about it.

Go on.

And make sure we know who's doing all of it.

Yeah, who's cooking all of it?

Yes, absolutely.

Spark the mortar to begin with.

You would like bread with lots of butter, king of king butter, king butter, chia but

geo batter,

chi butter,

geo batter,

dark dry bread, classic white bread, all in the thing.

Starter.

Primo, cremo, spaghetti bolognese, homemade 2006 to 2007.

Yeah.

In fact, maybe it was made then and frozen.

Two decades ago.

Yeah.

Main course.

Don't say that.

Willie's 24-hour lamb.

We want Willie to come around and cook you a 24-hour lamb.

If he's still alive.

Yep.

Side-silivatte mash made by yourself.

Yes, please.

Drink a big gouty red wine.

Yeah.

French cafe lemon sorbet.

Yeah.

Feel good?

I'm very happy with that.

It's

a surprise myself, really.

It's not really what I want, but thank you.

Thanks very much for coming in, Joe.

Thank you, Joe.

It was a pleasure to meet you.

Thank you.

Well, there we are.

What a journey we went on.

Well, well, well.

Never met Joe before, and what an experience it was.

I wish I'd known that you'd never met him before.

I would have been much more excited for this first meeting.

I loved it.

Love the stories and love the fact that he didn't mention the secret ingredient as well.

No kidneys.

Thank you, Joe.

Thank you, Joe.

Although he did have sort of dug up lamb.

A full lamb.

Yeah.

Because I guess we would might have kidneys in it, but.

Yeah.

Well, he'd probably leave them in by accident.

Yeah, yeah.

Hopefully he'd take the kidneys out of the lamb.

But yeah.

Hey, thank you, Joe.

Thank you, Thank you, Joe, and good luck with your play.

What's in a name?

And you can find out more about What's in a Name on what'sinaNameplay.com.

That's how easy it is to promote that play.

So easy to promote it.

Well, hey, Ed, have we been sent any free stuff lately?

Always, baby.

We got sent some Ruby's Rubble Ketchup and Mayo.

Oh, I love the name.

Haven't tasted it yet, but Ruby's Rubble is a good name.

It is indeed.

Good name's the hard to come by.

We got sent some Neil's Yard Dairy Cheeses.

Neil's Yard?

Neil's Yard.

They have wonderful cheeses at Neil's Neil's Yard.

Absolutely incredible.

I'll tell you what you'd find in Neil's Yard.

A lamb buried in a hole.

I mean, I'm so annoyed I didn't spot that.

And the small beer brew company, who I'd noticed on the shelves of my local supermarket before, and I was intrigued.

And it was lovely to try.

It's very low ABV beer.

Oh, yeah.

We're talking 1%.

1%?

And it was very...

It's like lemonade.

Yeah, but lemonade with a little something cheeky.

A little cheeky lemonade.

Little cheeky lemonade.

But

it was delicious.

So thank you very much for sending us those things.

Go on the off-menu website,

which is offmenupodcast.co.uk.

There's a restaurant list on there.

Every single restaurant that has ever been mentioned on the off-menu podcast is on our website.

Don't ask us.

It's on the website offmenupodcast.co.uk.

Check out the Instagram.

Check out the Twitter.

We love you.

Goodbye.

If you forget that email, if you forget that website address,

just ask the details.

Hello, I'm Carrie Add.

I'm Sarah.

And we are the Weirdos Book Club podcast.

We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival.

The date is Thursday, 11th of September.

The time is 7pm, and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies.

Tickets from kingsplace.co.uk.

Single ladies is coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September.

At the London Podcast Festival.

The rumours are true Saturday, the 13th of September at King's Place.

Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet.