Ep 17: Victoria Coren Mitchell

James, huge news from the world of off-menu and indeed the world of the world.

Yes.

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It's going to be a tasting menu, a returning guest coming back, receiving the menu of another previous guest.

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Who will we pull out of our little magic bag?

You'll have to come along on the 16th of March to find out.

If I'm correct in thinking, presale tickets go on pre-sale on the 10th of September.

Pre-sale tickets are 10th of September at 10 a.m.

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Diggaling a ligga-ling!

That's the dinner bell.

Welcome to the Off Menu Podcast.

Hello, Ed.

Hello, James.

How are you doing?

Very good, thank you.

My name is James Acaster.

My name is Ed Gamble.

Welcome to the Off Menu podcast, where we speak to a special, special guest every week and get them to tell us their dream meal.

Their favourite ever.

Starter, main course, dessert, side, and drink.

And today's guest is Victoria Corrin Mitchell.

Ah, you've seen her host in OnlyConnect.

She pops up on every panel show going, and she used to be a poker player professionally.

Now, I don't know if I'm going to get to ask her about OnlyConnect,

but I've got a theory that it's all made up.

You think all the answers are made up?

Yeah, it's not a thing.

Not a thing, it's not a thing.

All of the people on it are actors.

Mm-hmm.

All of the answers are made up.

They're not proper questions.

I love it.

I've watch it, I'd say, almost every episode.

Right.

But I've never got one right, so it can't be true.

That would be good, actually.

If someone did just write a scripted game show that it's all made up and just as an experiment to see when people will call it out and go, this is not, none of this is true.

Yes.

That'd be good.

Like a Devin Brown experiment.

Well, they've done it.

It's called Only Connect.

So

the end round is like letters and you have to fill it in.

Yes.

You know that round.

Yes.

They've cut out all the vowels or whatever.

Infuriating cause of arguments.

My girlfriend/slash fiancé person will just shout the first thing that comes into head, even if it's not a word.

Yeah.

She'll be like, oh, I've met her.

But just keep talking until she gets it right.

And it's, you can't think.

Oh, yes.

Oh, I would hate to be around her head.

Well, now I've got that off my chest.

We can get on with

the business of podcast.

Yes.

Also, very important, if Victoria says a certain ingredient, we're going to kick her out of the restaurant.

The secret ingredient this week is...

Quail's eggs.

A quail's eggs.

Because I think Victoria, she's a well-travelled lady.

She travelled playing poker.

You know, I think she's got expensive tastes and I think she's got fancy tastes.

You're laying a gauntlet here.

You're laying a little trap.

Yeah, I bet she's...

I hate quail's eggs.

What is the point of a quail's egg?

Yeah, you don't like them either.

Have a normal egg.

Have a normal egg?

Yeah, why are we taking eggs from the quails as well?

Leave them alone.

You probably pay as much for a quail's egg as you do for a normal egg, and it's not like it tastes any better.

Nope, tiny, no, not much difference in taste.

Leave them alone, have a normal chicken's egg.

The only place where a quail's egg should be is if you're making a hilariously small full English.

Yeah, like a comically

small full English.

Like a little baby.

For a little baby or a little squirrel.

Yeah.

But anyway, if it's on her menu, she's out the bloody restaurant.

That sounds fair to me.

Oh, oh, I can hear a car pulling up outside it.

We better take our places.

Victoria!

Welcome.

Victoria to the Dream Restaurant.

Thank you.

This is the Dreamers.

Oh!

James, would you like to explain what's happened there hello victoria i'm a genie i've just appeared from a lamp oh hello good to see you uh i'll be your waiter for the evening this is the dream restaurant we can order whatever food you want from any point in your life any time in your life whatever your heart desires even if it's food that you can't even buy anymore i can get it for you that sounds absolutely lovely I felt like I really had to justify the genie there more than I've ever had to.

Victoria looked at me in a way that was like...

Do you know what?

Because

I was distracted by thinking, have you got solid hands?

Because I was imagining you appearing as a sort of gas.

You know how they do, and then the plates would fall through onto the floor.

I know, I've got solid hands, like the guy, like the Aladdin genie, for example.

Okay.

He can hold stuff.

But does he have solid hands or can he just...

Because he turns into anything, doesn't he?

He could turn into like a car.

He doesn't have hands.

They're not solid.

I can turn into a car if you want me to.

I'm all about the practicalities.

I don't know if you ever see the genie in Aladdin carrying a tray of things.

I'm not sure.

I've seen him carry a tray.

Yeah, there's one, there's a scene where he's a waiter

carrying a tray.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I've actually just ordered Aladdin, weirdly, on DVD.

This is, I'm not a very techno person.

If we want to watch a film,

I buy it on DVD and it comes in the post.

Yes.

But it's because we were going to watch Zootropolis the other day, and I thought...

I was in a world where all cartoons are fine for children because they're just cartoons.

Yes.

And this one started.

It's about a rabbit that joins the post.

Oh, you've seen seen it, is right?

Have you seen it?

I love it.

But it's quite dark.

It started, and I thought, oh, do you know what?

My daughter's only three.

This is going to be, I didn't realize there was such a thing as a cartoon that might be a bit dark in theme.

Well, let me tell you how that film played out in our house.

About seven minutes in, the rabbit joins the police.

And we went, wasn't that lovely?

What a nice story.

The rabbit joined the police.

And then we all watched 101 Dalmatians.

I realized it was just going to be too dark for our little daughter.

Anyways, I've ordered Aladdin on the internet thinking, the you actually means something.

You don't realise that.

Yes, right, yeah.

You know, your whole life you think you, PG, it doesn't, it's either an, you know, 18 or it's not.

And then you put in.

What certificate is Zootropolis?

18.

I think, no, no, well, it's PG.

But actually, if you're three,

that's a bit hardcore.

Yeah, you need some parental guidance, really.

There was quite a frightening fox came in.

Right.

It was quite nasty, the fox.

It was a bit violent.

Got a bit upsetting.

But you thought, we're not watching this, we're going to stop watching this, and and we'll go on to the lovely 101 Dalmatians, which is about an evil woman trying to kill a load of dogs.

Yeah, literally, kill them and skin them and wear them as coats.

Wear them as coats, yeah.

But it's sort of

it's said in a nice way.

I don't think it ever was, actually.

No, she's quite explicit.

She really, really spells out what she's going to do with that badly.

She's horrible.

We got that one through.

It felt quite charming.

Yeah.

Yeah, we maybe slightly talked loudly during the

skinning.

The skinning references.

Yeah.

Moved on to watching American History X after that.

Fine.

Are you a foodie, Victoria?

No.

No, okay, straight to the point.

Depends what you mean by a foodie.

I like food.

I'm constantly eating.

I mean, like everyone with a small child, I have maybe 11 meals a day.

Right.

Because I didn't used to have breakfast, but they have breakfast.

You think, well, I'll join her in a spot of ready breakfast.

Yeah, she's in the middle.

The season will eat alone.

And then they need a snack.

That's because they're so small.

They run around all the time.

You've got to have to give them snacks, like putting batteries in.

And you think, oh, I have a bit of that snack.

Then you have lunch together.

Then they have their main meal in the middle of the afternoon.

So you have a bit of that.

Then you have your dinner after they've gone to bed.

So I definitely eat a lot of food, but I'm not very concerned about what it is.

What's your favourite baby snack?

Good question.

Yeah, good question, right?

I tell you what, they love muffins, which it was not a thing, not muffins as in cakes.

They're like, it's like a fat bread bread roll and you cut it in half and anything on that.

Okay.

Cheese, peanut butter, that's absolutely lovely.

Most things that babies eat,

I don't have a very challenging palate.

My brother is a food critic.

I'll tell you his favourite food, chicken feet.

That's who you should have on.

All disgusting things.

Intestine.

Because he eats, first of all, he's got a very sophisticated palate, which I don't have.

But also,

he has so many meals in restaurants, He thinks how what you and I might want in a restaurant, which is maybe a steak in a nicely lit room, he thinks how boring.

Yes, whereas if he goes in somewhere and you have to sit on a spike and someone brings you chicken feet and sort of spits at you while you have it, what an interesting new concept.

And he's really happy and he likes that kind of thing.

It's the same with all critics from across.

And it is the same with like comedy critics at Edinburgh.

Yeah.

If they go and see eight shows a day, they want the thing where it's like, I need someone to come on stage and be naked at the beginning and kick kick me full in the face.

Yeah, I would like no jokes in there, please.

No, exactly.

And you just want to go, listen, I'm a mainstream audience, I've paid £12.

I want difference between cats and dogs.

Bye, girlfriend.

Good night.

That's what I want.

But I'm not, I don't, I'm frightened of eating in people's houses because they might have made you something interesting.

Right, okay.

Yeah, I went to

my mother's boyfriend, who's quite a sophisticated person, was saying the other day about how they had some people for lunch, and he he'd just he'd made oxtongue and they just didn't wouldn't have it

and i just and i had to kind of nod along how rude how rude picky picky but i don't i take sandwiches in a bag because there's so there's just a lot of things which people

yeah because people think if you've got guests you should impress them with something quirky and different.

Yes.

I'm frightened of things that are quirky and different.

I think things like making something like oxtongue is a bit

is showing off really, isn't it?

That's more like

I would text a head.

Yeah.

Just so you know, everyone, I'm making oxtongue.

If anyone has a problem with that,

or does anyone know?

Does any yeah, yeah, I'm making oxtongue.

Is that okay?

Does anyone object?

I'd give them some options.

Yeah.

Well, it depends.

People, you see, if somebody writes to me because you're going for dinner and they go, is there anything you don't eat?

What they get back is an essay.

I don't mind, I will take sandwiches in a bag.

Yes.

Because if it's something, you don't want people to feel awkward and you just stuff them in and and go.

Do you feel fine with saying to them, I'm not going to eat this tongue, I'm going to eat these sandwiches I brought with me?

Or do you go into the bathroom to eat them?

Yeah, where do these sandwiches come in to be?

Luckily, it usually, on most social occasions, my husband is there, who is the politest person in the world.

He's so much more well-mannered than me.

So he would honestly, he would eat the fork if you said it was part of the meal.

Anything rather than put someone out, he would literally do it.

So I can be there going, oh, his picky wife.

Because if you've got both of us, at least one of us is going to have had the meal and gone, thank you, that was absolutely lovely.

I mean, he would, as he was stretched to the ambulance, he'd be shouting, that was lovely

as he went out.

So I feel like there's, I can kind of balance it.

So you're eating sandwiches at the table with everyone else.

No, I'd eat the sandwiches in the loop because I'd be hungry.

No, I wouldn't eat my own food in front of people.

I would go, oh, that's really cool.

I'm actually weirdly completely full already.

I've had two bites, that was amazing.

Yeah.

I'm just popping to the loo and then I quickly have a sandwich.

Popping to the loo for at least 10 to 15 minutes.

It's just a bit of peanut butter on some plain bread.

Making a panini in the toilet.

Yeah, it's like

the smell of that.

Yeah, sort of scooby-doo sandwich.

I'm slicing that out.

Scooby-doo sandwich.

Oh, those scooby-doo sandwiches look like the best, didn't they?

I haven't thought about scooby-doo sandwiches in a while.

The huge, are they like sub sub-sandwiches?

All the meat looks really kind of like

that meat when you were a kid, which was the

the floppy floppy meat floppy meat yeah the whole you know you could flap it around and it wouldn't break but like you know it just lulls out the side of the sandwich

floppy that that meat that was a teddy bear's face

does anyone know what i'm talking about bear meat is it called bear meat might even be called bear meat but it's not actual bear victoria yeah don't worry yeah yeah but like it's uh you've been safe

if we put bear meat on a dinner menu you could you don't need to bring your own sandwiches it's not a tongue situation Yeah, yeah.

There's no, yeah, there's no.

There's no...

I don't remember one that looked like a teddy bear's face.

Yes, there's a teddy bear's face.

There's different shades of it.

There it is.

Benito's got it up on the thing there.

There's three different shades.

That's what the meat looks like there.

Victoria's looking at it now.

Okay, I'm going to get my glasses because from here, it looks like you've googled some sort of skin disease.

Yeah.

Yeah, where you put the glasses on, I don't think your opinion's going to change much, but.

Oh, I get it.

It's sort of sideways.

The eyes are there, and those are the ears.

Yeah, yeah.

Skin disease, mate.

Yeah, I mean, to be fair, I mean, I absolutely loved it as a kid, but looking at it now, I don't know what my parents were thinking buying us that.

That does look pretty horrific.

You don't question it though, do you?

What you're beginning to eat as a kid.

No.

My grandma, who came from Eastern Europe, used to make a soup where the eggs

had been boiled inside the carcass of the chicken.

Oh.

I think it's probably illegal to buy that now because it would have so many things wrong with it.

But it was a very traditional dish where chicken did not yet laid the egg.

So if you boiled it, you could then cut it open again.

And these very small, they look like pink on walls.

They're very hard, solid eggs.

And, you know, very chewy.

But I don't, I mean, I was just small.

You'd be like, oh, okay, that's food.

You were just, and then I've went in.

I'm beginning to see why some of your

favorite.

When I've told people since the faces that all three of you are doing, that's exactly what happens if you haven't, if you discover it later and if you go, oh, sort of weird, hard, unhatched eggs that were boiled inside a chicken corpse.

That sounds nice, but you just think it's completely normal.

Well, there's an episode of that

final table,

which is a me and Ed Watch the

competition show on Netflix.

And one of the pairs, they cook, they have a chicken that's got loads of like embryos in it.

And they're just like, oh, there's loads of yolks, but they're like, and they're really happy that they've found this chicken with loads of yolks in it.

And they're like fishing them all out, but it does look pretty gross.

fellow vegans

i do think that's basically what this was yeah yeah it sounds like it oh holy moly i'd eat i have to say i'd eat a sandwich in the loo if that was on the menu i don't know

with the embryos in the in the middle of it wasn't it i think i would be the polite i think i would just end up doing it i'd end up eating i think i always say when they say is there anything you don't eat i say no it's fine even though some things i don't like but like i say it's fine and they'll just eat whatever i'm given i have to would there there be anything that would make you have a toilet sandwich?

Uh,

like, maybe like the head of an animal, and you can just see all the features still

if they serve me that.

It's the features that are the issue, yeah.

If they serve me like an otter's head, yeah, or whatever, and I can just see

it all boiled or whatever looking at me, I'll probably go, I can't bite into that.

Fair enough, mate.

Go and get a toilet sandwich.

That's where you get them from, like.

You have the responsibility.

You see, when you've got your own child, you realize that responsibility that you're giving them things that they will think is normal food.

Yeah.

I'll tell you what, my daughter has a lot of venison.

So,

who has venison outside books about Robin Hood?

But the reason is, they used to, she hasn't had a lot lately, but they sell it in the supermarket, minstrel, in a pack.

And it's got this really long sell-by date.

So, on the sell-by date on mince, you'll have your lamb mints, which may a couple of days, beef six days, venison, be like two weeks.

So you could get this venison and you can make all the things you would use beef.

You could do bolognese, risotto, all sorts of stews.

You can do it all with venison and it costs about the same and it lasts for ages.

And I thought, well, I just sort of bought it a lot.

And then I heard her saying to somebody at nursery, I think, we're having venison for tea.

I thought, this is just ridiculous, making her sound like some sort of of 18th century nobleman.

Yeah, that's the thing she goes over to a friend's to eat.

I prefer venison bolognese.

Oh, is this beef?

Can we get you some still sparkling water to begin with?

Tap, tap.

Oh, oh, very assertive on the tone.

Why always tap?

Because sparkling water...

tastes like the devil's jism

and still is just tap but you've paid for for it and it comes in a bottle, which is stupid.

So, I would think, you know, there are a few good things left about living in Britain, but one of them is

you can just drink the water out of the tap, so that is fine.

You can drink tap water.

Ed likes heavy metal, so the uh the devil's jism sounds like a band I would like, yeah.

You would love it, wouldn't you?

Yeah, somebody said to me, Cup of the devil's jism.

I don't feel like a sparkling water is like the devil, the devil's water.

It's so disgusting, and you know, the interesting thing is people treat it like it's normal.

It didn't used to be, I'm sure when I was a child, nobody had sparkling water.

And now they'll put it in your glass and I forget people think it's normal.

So I'll reach for a glass of water and have a big gulp and it's all kind of soapy and fizzy and just disgusting.

Like you would think water could go off but it's like it's off.

You have to try not to spray it all over the floor.

Soapy water.

It's really horrible.

It tastes about like soapy water actually.

I wouldn't want to drink soapy water.

Now that Victoria's put it like that, I think it's the devil's jism.

I think the devil's, I mean, let's not get too far into it, but I think the devil's jism will be spicier.

Yeah, it'd be hotter.

Yeah.

Oh, actually, it's got a good point.

I'm kind of going to and fro with this one.

I bet that's the title of the autobiography of one of the Rolling Stones.

Yeah.

Which is the kind of thing it would be.

Very good for

Sherard's.

But tap water is absolutely fine.

Maybe ginger beer, like fiery ginger beer, would be more like the devil's jism.

That's nice, though.

That is nice.

But then people like sin.

Yeah, they do.

They love sin.

So, you know, I think it might taste quite nice.

Yeah.

But, you know, oh, yeah.

Who am I to say?

Yeah, you'll never taste the devil's jism.

You're a lovely lad.

Yeah, exactly.

Poplums or bread, Victoria.

Poplums or bread.

What?

I mean, is it...

Am I having a curry?

This is what you

choose.

Poplums or bread.

That's what happens in this restaurant.

Yeah.

Bread, although my brother, who, as I say, is a more sophisticated diner than me, says it's terrible to have bread because you get really full.

This is the kind of thing that my husband and brother...

Fight about.

We're not like the roonies.

There's not a lot of you know whatever.

But my brother says it's really bad to have bread before a meal because then it all falls before the nice things come, you've filled up on sausage.

But my husband says there's literally nothing in the world that's nicer than bread and butter.

So what are you saving yourself for?

You're going without the best thing.

All his politeness goes out the window when it comes to a bread debate.

Well, if he was served it, he would eat it.

Definitely bread.

Bread with lots of butter.

I love barley butter just neat with a spoon.

On its own?

Yeah.

Have you done that?

You've done that in the past?

Yes.

You've got a brand you like, a favourite brand actually if it's allowed to say i mean i we have lerpak you got lerpack i like a bit of lerpac stuff so you'll eat i mean i suppose butter's just a thick thick yoghurt isn't it really you can eat that with a spoon yeah but it's sort of salty i mean it's really good you want to put it really thickly on things oh dear there's a little bit left on the knife well it's not nice to put it back in the tub is it so i'll just i'll just worry that down would you eat the little lerpak man the trombone player i would would you eat him straight in on his own

Yeah, I mean, butter is, you know, it's just, that's the greatest thing.

I'd take his trombone first and spread that on so you could see his face when you take away everything that he loves.

And then, and then I'd be like, oh, yeah, you really want to die now, don't you?

Yeah, please take me.

And then I'll spread him on when

he begs to die.

If we can say, yeah, please take me, too.

Yeah, please take me.

Yeah, please.

I've got nothing to live for anymore.

You take my trombone.

That would be a PG, wouldn't it?

Yeah, that would definitely be a PG.

You wouldn't show that to your daughter, that horrible scene where the little herb hat man got everything

he wouldn't love to take it away from them, begged for a death.

That's pitiful.

But I'm interested that you offer bread or poppadums as a choice, because that's never occurred to me.

I think of poppadums as you have it with chutney, don't you?

That's like a starter, not a side thing.

But it would is the middle ground because you wouldn't be too full, would you?

You'd have the.

I think both of them used to have them at the same point in the meal.

You have them before you have the proper starters.

You know, you have those first and then you might have some you know pakoras after that or something yeah i would never have poppadums is not a good enough starter i think i'd always go poppadums and then if i was having a curry like a sheet kebab or something like that yeah and then and then the full curry but you don't have them on your own you have them with jam on don't you yeah poppadums and jam yeah then well the mango is basically jam big spoonfuls of lovely mango jam yeah yeah it is it is mango jam yeah

who are we kidding yeah it is it's like a uh like a mince pie.

Any particular bread?

Oh,

well, I mean, I'd have a sort of a whole meal thing.

Yeah.

But no, I don't think so.

If you go to a very smart restaurant, they bring you a basket with, it's all different sorts of bread, isn't it?

And I quite like the ones that have stuff in.

You know, you sometimes get one that's got raisins in or rosemary.

Right.

Oh, but I'm in a restaurant.

I'm not at home, am I?

Yeah, oh, definitely.

Oh, yes,

whatever you would want from each other.

In that case, I'd have a sort of warm wholemeal bread roll with some raisins in.

Nice.

Oh yeah.

Sounds nice.

Like a fresh.

My mum used to, yeah, I think my mum's made bread with raisins in for a while, but now you've said that, remembering that fresh out the

recently out the oven bread with raisins and it's delicious with some with a lot of butter on it.

Oh, I would like that actually, Ed.

Can you get me some as well?

No, you're getting it.

Oh, yes.

You're the genie.

Oh, sorry.

I'm the genie.

Yes.

I often think people, I find myself when I'm spreading butter publicly

in a restaurant scenario, I feel the glare of people.

Yeah, well, that's because...

I feel like, oh, because I'm spreading it on quite thickly, people are like, what's this guy doing?

That's because when you do it, you're like,

I've taken everything away from you.

You beg for it.

You beg for it.

You take a little drop of bone.

But also, they never give you enough.

You tell me like one one often straight out of the fridge so you can't spread it and

you have to go awkward would you could you think would it be oh would you

get some more butter yeah and then they bring one more pack so you have to do it again and it's really humiliating

i hate having it when it's the uh having to unwrap it like a little packet but like actually so what's weird is i would say so now i'm imagining how when i've got to unwrap a pack of butter and I like I don't like it when it is too soft and I've got to unwrap it because then all the paper is like getting into the butter and I'm having a scoop and it's all overlapping and getting in a messy.

So I would like it that when I unwrap it, it's solid.

But then as soon as it's unwrapped, it goes soft.

So you've invented a new type of butter.

Yeah.

You've got to put those ideas out there and then scientists can hear them and work on it.

But that is really, because that's sort of spreadable butter, isn't it?

But that doesn't come in a...

wrapped in paper.

But spreadable butter is a thing.

It probably has something evil in it.

because it is just butter but magically yeah lerpak it's it's good stuff yeah we have lerpak at home as well tell you what i do at a hotel buffet if you get the little wrapped paper packs open it a little bit get your toast put the butter under the hot toast for 10 seconds or so and that makes it soft enough to spread you're an amateur i'll tell you what i do right here we go take a huge handful yeah

eight or ten pats yeah put them in my handbag, ready for the next morning.

Then they're room temperature by the time you have breakfast the following day you walk around all day with 10 packs of butter in your hand oh yes well it depends if it's in a hot country yeah i'll leave them in the room because otherwise it's just silly isn't it they're just gonna they're gonna

but your your classic british holiday yeah yeah

big old handful put them in your handbag and then you hope nobody's looking when you fish them out because it doesn't

make your own toilet sandwiches from scratch yeah

you've got a whole business to run

well you're coming to your starter now yes uh this is uh so the big guns come out.

Is this from a certain time of your life or you had it at a certain place?

Yes and no.

I'll tell you what I like as a starter.

An avocado.

Okay.

Oh, yes.

Yes.

It could be vinaigrette.

It could be with prawns.

Yes.

But I like an avocado.

And that's, because I was thinking, what would I always be pleased to see?

Yeah.

And it would be that.

But I did when I when I was but I did, but when I was small, I used to, I just have it.

If we went to a restaurant, I have an avocado as as a starter, but just with nothing on it, just chopped up.

And it used to make my dad very sad because he would say you could have that at home.

You see,

my brother, I think, is cut from the same cloth.

He would think, once you're in a restaurant, why don't you have something that you couldn't have at home that you couldn't cook?

Sort of thing.

Maybe not chicken feet, but something very complicated with a lot of sauces, soufflés, difficult things.

Why would you just have an avocado that you could chop up?

But I thought that was just silly.

Why not just have the thing that you most want?

Sure.

Why not have that?

That's an endless conundrum there, isn't

Yeah,

I guess they don't want that.

They wouldn't want, that's not what they want.

If they want to go to a restaurant, they need that flair, that sort of thing.

I think people tell themselves that's what they want, right?

Okay.

So they want to go and tuck into an anecdote.

But actually, if it's something you'd never have, probably because you don't like it.

Cooking's not that difficult.

Yeah.

So if you really liked something, you'd have it a lot anyway.

I don't, I don't, I, I fear the new.

Well, the other the avocado at some point was new that must have been a big step for you well I think I had it too young to because they give it to kids'cause it's it's a good texture, it's in between you know your puree and your solid food.

So it's that we don't go abroad very much because I feel like

you know that's that's paying a lot of money to go somewhere with

food you don't eat and language you don't speak and people you don't know.

Why would you do that?

Because I think you can't see any appeal in it.

But before but before we move on before we move move on

from this point,

you can't see any appeal in going abroad at all.

Well,

I can see when you come back now you've been there.

That's what it is.

You can just say you want.

You don't need to go.

It's frightening, isn't it?

We found one or two hotels that we quite like.

And we usually just go there.

Every time you go on Honda, you just go there, and then they just know.

Oh, it's the Mitchells.

Get the butter ready.

Put the avocado in the kitchen.

One of these hotels at the bottom of the street?

No, no, abroad.

So there's there's one in Italy.

There's one in Italy, basically, I'm thinking of that we've just we go quite often'cause it's quite nice.

They're a nice spaghetti.

But most of the time, we have holidays in the UK.

It's lovely.

You take the car, you can just put everything in there.

You can get all almost everything you own.

You stick it in the back.

Stick it in the back of the car.

You go somewhere you know you're going.

Everything's nice and familiar.

That's what you want to get away for, right?

Just get away and just lose yourself in the familiarity of life.

Yes, if there's one phrase I really disagree with, it's a change is as good as a rest.

Right, absolutely is not.

There's nothing less restful than change.

It's stressful and frightening.

You don't know what it's going to be.

What if you're allergic to it?

What if it's poisonous?

This is what you don't know.

When you say you're taking almost everything you own, what's the biggest thing that you take with you from your house?

Do you take like...

I we do take a portable fridge correct yes I'm just thinking about the things we've got a portable fridge we we take a DVD player because

often you're just staying in aren't you in the in the hotel in the evening you're just staying

that they're like no most people on holiday go out in the evening and do local stuff

go take things in like what you want to do and do something in the i don't know that most go on holidays stay and watch a dvd every day well we do because if you go out, you might get mugged, you might get lost,

you know, or you'll just go and have a meal that you don't understand.

But if you just stay in the hotel,

that's lovely.

But

how would you watch a, you know, you switch the television is going to be in a language you don't understand.

Yes.

So what you want is to watch a nice film.

You're younger than me.

You probably understand how to make a film play off your computer onto the television or your phone or that kind of thing.

Yeah, we don't understand that.

So but if you take

a DVD and a couple of Scart leads, a DVD player, usually you can sort of plug that in.

So we take DVDs and DVD players, that's nice.

And

a little fridge.

And that way,

if the room service menu is daunting, you can just buy something, can't you?

Could you buy something?

You can't buy some avocados.

But it can be daunting.

If you can, you know, something, everything's all sort of spicy.

So you put it in your little fridge and you're all set up.

I know what you're thinking.

Why not stay at home?

Yep.

Because you feel like you ought to go on holiday.

Right.

So you're going on holiday because you feel there's societal pressure to go on holiday yeah yeah because you do otherwise you feel regret you look back and go oh we never went on holiday yeah but now you'll look back and go i'm glad we travelled there and ate our own food and watched our own tvds watch the first seven minutes the first seven minutes of a zootropolis in italy yeah

but you don't often we don't usually go to normally we go to wales or Cornwall or somewhere you just I think there's a lot to be said for UK travel as well I don't I don't think I do enough of it holidays-wise.

You know what you're gonna get?

I traveled a lot before I was married because I was a professional poker player for a long time.

That life is slightly disappearing over the horizon, but I traveled a lot.

Then I went to a lot of different places, but you were always in the casino, so it was always the same.

Wherever you were in the world,

you know what you're getting: 24-hour cocktails, a lot of jangly slots, and people trying to cheat you out of your money.

And casino food menus are they pretty much the same worldwide then?

Pretty much the same worldwide.

It's a lot of toasted sandwiches and usually

a Chinese menu and an Arabic menu because of the cultures that love gambling.

Right.

They love gambling.

So

you want everything to feel nice and lucky.

All of Chinese culture is lucky.

So we borrow a lot from it in the casino world.

There's a lot of red lanterns and noodles and sort of for a vaguely lucky feel.

And you might go and do a bit of of sightseeing, but you can always go back to the casino 24 hours.

You work there, yeah.

And the food is, well, it's like it depends.

It depends whether they think you might play something other than poker.

If they think you might give them a spin on the

blackjack or the roulette or the dice or something, now

you're giving them the action.

So they will bring out great platters of swan.

It's like this.

If you're a high roller and you're playing the proper gambling table games, it's like this.

Genies appear and go, what's your favorite thing in the world that does Bring that for you?

Um, if they think you're only going to play poker, they don't care if you dig something out of the bin.

I mean, they're just because poker player, you're not playing against the house, you're playing against each other.

They give you the table space, but not gambling in the same way.

It's kind of a skill game with a bit of luck involved, and you they don't they sort of resent you.

Did you ever go outside of poker then, or did you always stick to poker?

I don't know, I'm very leaky.

I

played roulette for years, uh, terribly.

I'd have I absolutely don't recommend it.

And I play a bit of blackjack, but only in Vegas.

That was my rule to myself.

I'm allowed to play blackjack when I'm in Vegas.

But you can't play everywhere because otherwise

it's too because I was in too many casinos.

I travel too much.

And if you play those things, there's just

you're having to...

you know, sell yourself on the street to get home again.

And

the amount people will pay at my age, frankly, I couldn't get back from a lot of those places.

So I tended not to.

I just stood at the airport with a mini fridge and a DVD player going, how am I going to get home?

No, but that was before.

It's odd because people think

how very glamorous and brave.

Yeah, you go off to somewhere you've never been completely unknown and you're gambling with strange.

But it's not like that at all because actually

it's it's very it's it's very safe because it's very predictable and familiar.

You know what you're going to get, you know what the casino will be like, you know what the players will be like.

It's a way of socializing what you actually don't have to speak at all.

Yeah, you look at some of my closest friends, I have sat with them for 10 hours at a time at a table, we've not exchanged two words.

And so it was actually

a very safe life in a way.

So that's what you're trying to recreate now with your holidays with your family.

Well, I married somebody who's very like me.

So he sort of shares the idea that you don't be completely jumping into the unknown.

Anything could happen.

There might be tigers.

Yeah.

And you sit next to each other all the time, but you've never spoken, right?

Yeah.

I speak to him.

But yeah, that conversation is still, or we do a crossword.

So we're going with an avocado to start.

Do you want prawns?

Do you want vinaigrette?

I think vinaigrette.

Vinaigrette.

Avocado vinaigrette.

Yeah.

Lovely.

Lovely.

Lovely start.

Lovely starting.

Fresh start.

Yeah.

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Main course?

Well, this is difficult to narrow down.

My main thing is, is this something I'm only ever I'm going to have once?

or is this the meal of my dreams, or what would I always want it to be?

Do you see what I mean?

It's however you feel like you want to interpret it.

I would say

towards the side of this is the dream restaurant, so you can have whatever you want, you're never going to be in the dream restaurant again.

Yeah, this is like

the best meal if it was like yo, a really big but important birthday, and everyone was like, You're gonna have

yo, whatever you want to eat, a great meal,

maybe a plowman's

no because you want to know that it's going to be nice if you if it's an important birthday

because it's all very well

i did not foresee any of this no because if it's your special birthday and everyone's come and you've looked forward to it i've only just for the listener yeah since victoria said plowman's i've only just taken my hands away from my face

i love that you really set us up as well by going is it like a big meal that you can only have once we're like yeah it can be like okay plowman's plowman's.

That's right.

I love a plowman's.

I love but because you don't want to go, I tell you what, I'll have.

I'll have a lobster pasta with a bit of grated truffle on the top.

And then it's your disappointment.

No, because it's sort of a disappointment.

I mean, the meals that I remember as being very special are often you were sitting in a lovely place.

Yeah.

You know, we once, we had a meal in a restaurant of a hotel.

where you could see Mount Etna.

It was this incredible view and these are there were these ancient ruins.

I mean, it was absolutely amazing.

Well, I don't remember what we ate.

Probably spaghetti.

I probably went, oh, I probably looked at the spaghetti and went, oh, can you do just one, just like a plain one with a bolognese.

But applowments, you're never disappointed, are you?

You're never disappointed.

But if it's the dream restaurant, you can definitely have two sorts of cheese.

So if I'm designing.

Go wild.

So you could have a cheddar and a Stilton.

Yes.

So then it's not that you wouldn't have variety.

I tell you another thing, no celery.

No celery.

That's always a disappointment.

You know, when you water about, you're really looking forward to it.

You've got somewhere and you, because the thing about a plowman's, here's the thing people don't know.

Where do you think the phrase plowman's lunch comes from?

I would assume it's people who used to work on plows.

That's what they used to have for lunch, right?

Yeah.

Now, I know that, however, obviously, I know that we're being set up here.

Yeah.

So I'm going to say that it was the lunch of an assassin.

And when would you, then where would you think it dates from?

When do you think would be the earliest use of the phrase plan was lunch?

2013?

A little bit earlier.

No, it was invented in 1963 by the Milk Marketing Board.

Oh, yes, I was going to say like 18th century or something.

No, it was a ploy to sell more cheese.

It was invented.

It was literally a meeting

where they went, we need to come up with some sort of special meal that has a dairy product as the central focus, which isn't that's going to be about cheese.

And they came up with this idea of plan was lunch, and it was really devised and they made adverts for it and everything.

I'm very annoyed that they that's what they came up with, but you couldn't, you could

always get one because if you if you're in a nice pub, especially a nice gastro pub, they'll always do you'll always have it on the menu.

But even if somebody doesn't have it on the menu, they can usually rustle it up, and it's never a disappointment.

But if you think it's going to be a good one, you don't want to see celery on the plate.

I agree with that, with that totally.

I hate celery.

Celery is one of the few things that I genuinely hate.

I quite like celery.

How?

It tastes horrible.

I quite like it.

It tastes simultaneously of nothing and horrible.

I like some juicy celery.

That's exactly it.

It simultaneously tastes of nothing and horrible.

How have they done that?

I don't know how they've managed it.

It was quite impressive in a way, but get it away from my mouth.

I like it if it's juicy.

Juicy celery that's like watery and I dip it in stuff.

Yeah, see, you dip it in stuff.

You dip it in stuff.

That's the thing.

It's a vehicle for other flavours.

You've made it taste of Philadelphia.

That's cheating.

Yeah.

You should just have a fork full of Philadelphia.

Yeah, no, it's horrible.

It's the fizzy water of vegetables.

Really?

It's disgusting.

I'd like to do some fizzy celery.

Would you like that?

Yeah.

No, you don't.

I want to dig into it's never a disappointment because I would say it's never a plowman's lunch is never a disappointment because the bar is very low.

It's not low.

Because it's not that great.

So you were saying about truffles and lobster and a nice sauce and that there's a risk of being disappointed because you think, oh, this will be amazing.

So obviously, but with a plowman's lunch, you think, it's just a plowman's lunch.

It can't be.

It won't be.

It may not be.

I'm not messing this up.

It may not be disappointing, but it's never amazing, is it?

You never go.

It's amazing.

Don't be ridiculous.

Who's ever looked over across the table to their friend and gone, try this?

With a plowman's lunch.

Stop what you're doing.

Get a foot full of this pickle.

Yeah, have some of this.

The reason they haven't done that is because they know the other person will have had that at some point in their life because it's the best meal.

No, I'm I'm sorry, a bit of crusty, warm bread, a smear of Stilton, a bit of apple, maybe.

Look, it's somebody.

Some Branston.

It's amazing.

So it's start sun didn't.

So

take us through all the components of your dream plowman.

Good.

I'm glad you said that.

So I'd like triangles of bread, wedges of triangular bread, most of it sort of slightly nutty brown bread, but maybe a white, maybe like a bap, a flowery, you know, lovely.

You could have both sorts of bread.

Your cheddar, your Stilton.

Are there particular cheddars and Stiltons that you're into?

No, they're all good.

But mature.

Mature.

Mature.

Very mature.

Mature.

Cheddar.

And quite, you don't want a hot, you want not fridge-cold Stilton.

That would be disgusting.

I quite like the kind you get at Christmas in a jar.

You spoon it out.

Yeah, love that.

Soft Stilton.

Then you need something sweet.

I would say grapes.

Yep.

A bit of apple is nice.

Yeah.

And some Branston pickle.

There is a con, right, that I can see that you've fallen for is that people, for a meal to be special, it's got to be very fancy.

Right.

And that isn't true.

That isn't true.

That's not what I'm saying.

You've misinterpreted my problem with your

lunch here.

No, I definitely,

I don't think meals have to be fancy, to be enough, but that is

salty, it's sweet, it's nourishing.

You've got a range of flavours on the plate.

Different colours are there.

I think James has got an issue with cheese in general

here's the thing on the podcast in the past i've got angry uh about people having cheese and biscuits for dessert that really winds me up and i'd swear to god if you're going that way i'm gonna no no i'm not

it's not a dessert you did i will flip this table because like if you're having a plowman's lunch and cheese and biscuits for dessert i will not be held responsible for it especially when you had bread and popped on saw bread as well

a lot of bread involved there i'm gonna get very angry but i've got a history of getting angry at Ed likes cheese and biscuits as a dessert.

Love it.

He's insane.

What do you mean as a dessert?

It's as well.

No,

it's a different course.

So we went.

Oh, we went to the business.

Oh, going into this.

I bet you thought you'd got me outnumbered, didn't you, you little worm?

But now,

Victoria's on my side.

Yeah, it's nice.

We went for a meal the other day, and the dessert menu came, and there was a choice of four or five desserts or cheese and biscuits.

What kind of cut-price clip joint was this?

It was Tom Carriage's restaurant at the Caruthea Hotel.

As a matter of fact, I've eaten at that restaurant and Tom Carridge was there.

It was lovely to see him when he came and shook hands.

So I'm not.

No,

I wouldn't say it was too noisy.

Other than that, it's a fantastic place.

So no, you know, I don't mean to, but also, here's the thing with Tom Carridge, he's all about the weight loss, which is lovely.

I understand that's nice for people.

Oh, why don't you just have some salmon and onions in a tray?

That's nice because it's delicious and also you get thin.

But I don't believe in being thin.

I don't like it.

I associate it with misery.

So I've only ever been thin when I'm really unhappy.

Yeah.

So I don't really like that.

And I know it makes people very happy, and Tom Kerry just lost lots of weight cooking, what is no doubt, delicious food.

So, this is nothing, but so he would be a person that would go dessert or cheese.

Kerrig has been on this podcast.

Oh, has he?

Yeah, and yeah, well, I mean, his dessert was a massive ice cream sundae, and

his drink was 24 cans of stellar.

So, you know, he would probably agree with you.

But it's interesting, well, maybe because his books lately have been very much low-calorie.

Really good, healthy meat.

Fuck-filling stuff delicious but i'm disappointed that i didn't notice that on the menu and if i had i might have refused i'm sure you could have i'm sure you could have had both i don't think there's you know i just i felt bad about asking for two things when these guys were just having their pudding pudding and cheese and you know what you're meant to have the cheese first people get it wrong in this country right you're meant to have your main course and then the cheese because you carry on drinking the red wine through and it goes really well with the cheese

and then you have the pudding afterwards yeah then have a pudding afterwards like a normal person yeah and on a pudding all right.

I'll do that next time, but if you don't like cheese, then obviously you're not going to understand what's going on.

I do like cheese, but I would just have it-you know, I'll maybe have it of an evening on its own or a lunch, like

around Christmas time or something with my family.

We'll have a little lunch and have some cheese and biscuits and bread and stuff like that.

But it would never, never, as my option for my dream meal, oh, a plowman.

If you know what, because we know each other quite well, but not well enough, I'm really holding back here.

You're very shy.

Yeah, we can tell, by the way, you just looked at your fingernail and sort of violently picked away it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Inflict pain upon myself.

I mean, if you were Joel Dobbitt, you'd be getting both barrels right now.

But also, it's the fact that you've already had bread as well.

You've had bread already.

Well, I didn't.

You offered.

I wouldn't have had it as well, did you?

I understand.

That's on us.

I wouldn't have.

Victoria knew that she was she was heading to the plowmans.

I offered her pop a dubs or bread.

Yeah, but I'm not very self-disciplined.

Yes.

You know,

I agree that you shouldn't have a lot of bread before a meal because it spoils it, especially if your main course is bread.

But if you come around with a basket of fresh bread.

Yeah.

Yeah, sure.

Okay.

But you can set some of the bread aside and wait for the plowmans to arrive.

You know, that could...

You could be spreading the avocado starter on it.

Oh, that would be very nice.

You've had a lovely fresh green starter.

Yes.

Now a nice bit of carb.

I tell you, when I agree with the lovely plowmans, if you've been for a long walk or something, that sounds nice, a long walk in the country, and then you go to a lovely pub and have a plowman's.

Yeah, that just feels like the right sort of thing.

Yeah, and you know, when it's even nicer without the walk,

you just go in the pub and have the plowman's.

You know, that's just drive to the pub.

That's lovely.

I mean, no, and I like other things.

I'm not saying I only eat bread and cheese, but if you're saying what is the nicest thing,

but if I'm just going to be absolutely honest,

if you get away from just trying to be elegant or thinking, what ought I to think, if you

just strip it all away and you're totally honest with yourself, what is the nicest thing?

A bit of cheese on toast.

I just feel like I've been, I mean, because it is like a long-standing thing on this podcast that I get angry at cheese and biscuits for dessert, I just feel like I've been ambushed and didn't expect it during a different course with this.

That's

what it feels like.

I always expected this attack now during the mains.

But do you expect

that any of the okay, listen, if you're going to give me a hard time about the cheese, you know what my problem is?

People that say main when they mean main main course.

It's not a noun.

Give me your mains.

Your mains.

Your mains.

Absolutely takes the joy out of it.

Plonk it down and then here's your mains.

What do you want as a main?

Awful.

Main course.

Main course.

Not mains.

Do you accept that any good main course is going to involve cheese?

If I hadn't said a planet, I might have said a lovely pasta with some parmesan grated on it.

A cheeseburger is always lovely.

I think the cheese is...

Of all the elements, the cheese is I have the least problem with maybe.

I think the biscuits I have more of a problem with when you have your cheese and biscuits for dessert because it's that they're more plain and just boring.

They look nice in Kerridge's place, didn't they?

They did look nice, yeah, in Kerridge's place, but like still, most of the time, cheese and biscuits, the biscuit part is just so dull that like I get very angry.

I like the hovis ones.

They're basically digestive.

Yeah, awful.

I love them.

Digestive with a bit of Stilton on the top.

Absolutely love it.

Yes, please.

Cheese is the best.

This is why I would really struggle to be vegan.

And the truth is, the dairy industry is more cruel and horrible than the meat industry.

It's worse.

but I couldn't I couldn't give up milk you know when they ask you when you do interviews for things they often ask you you know this like when it's just a one-off interview for a magazine or something what's your guilty pleasure and it's infuriating because people say things oh it's watching downtown Abbey why would you feel guilty about that yeah why

don't be ridiculous it's part of the same thing which says your best meal has to be you know crab grated onto a rare precious stone rather than just something nice what's your guilty pleasure so it doesn't really have me they asked my husband what's your guilty pleasure and he said I do like to fuck a prostitute I don't know if you could put that on it.

But, you know, it's got to be something you would actually have a reason to feel guilty about.

So, for me,

it's dairy products.

I was a vegetarian, and then I kind of fell off the wagon.

And now I try and have a bit less meat.

But dairy, I mean, it's truly a pleasure, and I really feel guilty.

Yeah, yes.

And cheese.

The Downtown Abbey industry is actually very cruel as well.

Yes, my guilty pleasure is saying manes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mains.

Guilty pleasure.

Mains.

Before we move on as well, I mean,

but like, um.

I know you don't want to move on, James.

I know you want to keep going around the houses about the plowmans.

But the decisions, but you're not going to be able to do that.

I have two more questions.

Right, okay.

One is like, is there pickled onions on your plowmans?

What do you mean, on the plowmans?

Just on the plate.

Oh, on the plate.

Yes.

There is.

And I might have, but I thought, yeah, you might have a bit of a slice, a bit of a slice of pickled onion for the bit of crunch.

Okay.

Also,

there's other other sorts of these kind of things, isn't there?

There's plowmans.

Yes.

But isn't there other things that are named...

There's like other.

Like what?

Muns.

Muns.

There's other muns.

Is there?

You've got to name some of the muns because

you're in the dark here.

Hellman's mayonnaise.

Yeah.

But a Hellman is not really.

Plowman's, but I swear I've seen like other meals.

Vitamin.

That are like, you know.

This is what I find interesting.

Your scepticism about a plowman's lunch being the best thing.

This is what I find interesting.

Yes.

You're dressed today quite normally.

You've got a sort of jumper and trousers on.

Thank you very much.

Is your dream outfit a great ruffled Elizabethan gown with a sort of giant wig with a ship in it?

If I said, What's your absolute best thing to wear?

Would you go, well, it would be a lime green velvet cow costume?

No, it would be something, I mean, maybe it would.

But if it was a ball,

I don't know, not a ball, but like, if we're all,

If it was like wear whatever you like day,

yeah, what would you wear?

Yeah, I'd probably wear what was that lime green cow costume you said

If it was a ball you might wear a dinner jacket.

You'd wear a really nice version of something normal, wouldn't you?

I guess so, but then that's wearing stuff.

I wouldn't wear, yeah, I probably wouldn't dress like this.

This isn't my fan, this isn't my glad rad.

You wouldn't necessarily dress like that.

You made a bit of an effort, but

a nice version of the same thing.

When I say a plan was, I don't mean I've hacked a bit of old cheddar or something I found in the fridge and done it with a car's water biscuit.

It's a lovely, sumptuous version.

And people tell themselves that for special occasions, something's got to be,

you know, you've got to be in uncomfortable shoes, eating something weird.

You know, you just don't let yourself off the hook.

Do what you know is nice.

I'm also annoyed that they had to

think of a way to...

get milk into like a meal and they came up with the plowmans and they didn't just like go invent a milkshake pie pie or something.

I would have liked that.

Yeah, but that would have been too fast in the 60s.

I would have loved a milkshake pie if that was a normal thing that we all do, and it was a milkshake pie, but they called it like you know,

milkmaids.

Is it a solid or a liquid?

The milkshake pie, is it a solid or a liquid?

Like a.

You mean an ice cream pie, really, don't you?

Halfway between a solid and a liquid.

No, look, a milkshake, but that's like set a little bit, like

a cheesecake.

Okay, so you mean a cheesecake?

No, no, no, but but made of milkshake right a milkshake cheesecake yeah yeah so it's not a pie in a blender uh no no no so it's a pie yeah but like it's like made of milkshake flavoured with milkshake that does sound delicious i'd like that if that was like the thing a milkmaid's a milkmaid's delight a milkmaid's delight yeah

look james you can talk around the houses all you want the order's locked in victoria's having a palace i feel like i'm gonna yeah i mean

I feel like I'm gonna think, you know, when you come sometimes you have an argument and then you think of all the things you should have said afterwards I feel like that's gonna be me today I feel like on the way home and I think of all the things I should have said to Victoria I'd call it by its correct name which is lesprit Escalia but I don't want to scare Victoria with the language oh yeah yeah you wouldn't you wouldn't like those unfamiliar words

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Your side dish.

I've struggled, I would struggle to tell you about a side dish.

I want to say cucumber salad because it's quite unusual.

Yes.

It reflects my exotic European heritage, which is not reflected in my personality.

So that's quite interesting.

I mean, truthfully, obviously, my favourite side dish would be chips, but what kind of podcast would that be?

I mean,

everyone would just go, I'll have some chips.

That's obviously.

That's pretty much what's happened.

It's the best thing.

The best thing.

Half a guest.

So I would say cucumber salad, which is a sort of

it's thinly sliced cucumber, pickled in a kind of sweet and sour sauce,

which is absolutely lovely.

I cook it quite often, my mother's recipe.

And my husband likes it if I make that for guests because he can tell people it's my mother-in-law's recipe.

It's mainly acid.

He loves my mother.

But

it's very labor-intensive because you have to peel all these cucumbers.

You have to take all the skin off, then peel them very, very, very thinly.

And then you have to leave them salted for ages and then rinse it off.

And then you make a sort of sweet and sour pickling acid.

Because that draws moisture out, right?

It draws the moisture out, and then you put the moisture back in

with acetic acid and sugar.

Right.

And it's really good.

And it's very

green and crunchy and fresh tasting.

It does sound really good.

I really like pickled things.

And I think, yeah, pickled cucumbers are really good.

And that goes very well with the plowmans as well.

It would go well with this.

you had to bring it up again.

No, I'm just saying a lot of guests pick sort of disparate side dishes that don't necessarily go very well together.

No, it goes with everything.

It goes with everything.

Because when I was growing up, I had my mother's side of the family, who were you know, from abroad, as I like to call it, that my grandma was at a wonderful cooker.

There were all these amazing things,

including the eggs boiled inside the chicken.

But it was really delicious.

And everything sort of pickly and sweet and sour and nuts and rum and everything very kind of

Jewish East European, strong flavours, and she was a fantastic cook.

My grandma on the other side,

English,

I could best sum up her cooking by saying if you went round for a Sunday roast,

she'd have been so worried about it not being ready on time that she cooked it the day before and then heated it in the morning.

Yes.

All of it.

Roast potatoes, chicken, the lot cooked, and then heated up.

Really,

but I love that food as well.

But it was very, very badly done.

Dry and it's not, oh, you're told to do it, flowery and horrible.

So I definitely have a sense that the more exotic foods are the better ones, but it has to be ones that I know when I was a child.

I don't want it to be a surprise, but we had cucumber salad with everything.

It does go with a plowman's, but it goes with absolutely everything.

I mean, it would go with chocolate cake.

There is no food that isn't improved because it's sweet and sour, and the right flavour comes out according to what you're eating it with.

How old were you when the recipe was handed down and you were shown how to make the cucumber salad?

Do you know it was really recently?

Oh.

Yeah, and because I always knew if I went to my mum's house for a meal, there would always be cucumber salad.

It'll always just be on the side, whatever else you're having.

And

I don't think I thought to make it myself until genuinely about four years ago.

Right.

And now I've got the recipe.

It's scribbled on the back of a...

It's scribbled on the back of an envelope addressed to the Inland Revenue.

Which is obviously what I had to hand when I was on the phone to my my mom going how do you make it and it's just scribbled on there things like squeeze the salt out of the cucumber spoon and it's the kind of recipe you'll get from your mum which is just keep adding sugar till it tastes all right you know there's no measurements and I often think to myself when I look at the recipe it was only three or four years ago but I think did I did I pay any tax that year I mean

I clearly didn't send anything anywhere so maybe they'll catch up with me one day Yeah, but when I do pay, they'll get a bonus recipe, won't they?

Yeah, they'll be delighted when that comes up.

Yeah, you'll get a rebate when they start making that.

So your mum didn't show you how to make it she wrote the recipe down and sent you off to she showed me how to make something so some things i can make because i've watched my mother making them but no the the the the cucumber it's like her the her

sweet and sour tomato soup with stuffed pimentos

another thing that because it can be like a time machine food that you ate when you were a child if you haven't had it for a bit and you have a bite and i i remember making that based on a recipe that my mother had given me on the phone and it was really magical

oh wow this

takes you back to that.

Bitten my way into 1987.

This is amazing.

In Vatatouille, that's what happens, isn't it?

Is it?

Yeah, in Vatatouille, the food critic eats the Vatatouille and he gets taken back to when he was a little boy.

Oh.

That's the...

Yeah, the whole film is pretty much about that.

Well, no, it's about a rat who can cook.

I'd say that's the top line.

Is it a you?

Is it a you?

Good point.

Yeah, I think it's a you.

It's a wonderful film, right?

It's a you.

It's definitely a you.

Yeah, it must be a a you.

Oh, yeah.

There's no subtitles.

Well, I guess the dark element is that there's a rat in the kitchen, right?

Yeah, that's pulling his hair and making it.

No, but if you're three, that's pretty cool.

That's pretty cool, right?

Why would

there be no downside to that?

It's not an issue, yeah.

Brilliant.

Pretty happy about the rat in the kitchen.

Yeah.

PG.

Wow.

How is rat a two here?

PG.

Yeah, there'll be something.

There's nothing.

That's not scary fox in there or anything.

There's rats going around.

And to drink.

Well, I don't think, does it need to go with the Plowman's?

It doesn't need to go.

It's your drink.

Because if it had to go with the Plowman's, I'd just have a cup of tea.

But the best thing I ever drank was a salted caramel martini.

Oh.

Okay.

Absolutely amazing.

Well done for immediately getting James back on board with the menu.

Someone's putting on a green cow onesie.

Someone's come around.

Do you know why?

Because even though it's a very adventurous, exotic thing,

it appeals to a childish palate like mine.

Yeah.

Because it just sort of tastes of sort of salted fudge and alcohol.

It's absolutely amazing.

I didn't realise, this is quite a curious thing, until we went to New York, I was thinking when it was maybe

two years ago, maybe two years ago.

And I

hadn't realized until that trip that

you're going to think it's really odd that I didn't know this because I know quite a lot of things.

But that a cocktail was really supposed to contain more than one type of alcohol.

Right, okay, yeah.

So I had only ever drunk cocktails where it's an alcohol and a fruit juice.

Yes.

So it might be a vodka and orange, a Malibu and pineapple, a Bellini, that kind of thing, or a Bucks Fizz.

And I sort of understood that people drank these things that were different alcohols in a glass, but that just seemed absolutely disgusting.

And I'd never had it.

And then we were staying in this hotel and they had a cocktail bar.

And there was one, and I just tried it for the first time.

And I had a magnificent doorway to alcoholism, basically.

It sort of swum open.

It's amazing when you mix your tequila with Cointro.

And I'd just never done it.

It was incredible.

And I drank these things, cosmopolitans and sidecars, and they were all just absolutely delicious.

And the best of them.

was a salted caramel martini.

I mean, you couldn't stand up after two of them.

Right, yeah.

And yet it tasted like a child's pudding.

Yeah.

So I've never had an espresso martini because I just don't want to

find out.

Oh, they're the best.

Yeah, I don't want to find out that they're the best.

I just think sometimes I know myself and I think that that is not, that's, yeah, that's a door I'm leaping to.

They're crazy.

I mean, I've had nights where I've had like four or five espresso martinis.

Yeah.

And then I'm sat up at like four in the morning going, I don't really want to go to sleep.

I wonder why.

Oh, you've had a full pot of coffee on top of all that those.

Those are the same.

Absolutely the same thing to do.

Can you remember what was in the salted caramel martini?

I mean, no.

I don't know what's in a normal martini.

It was a closed world to me, the world of the proper cocktail.

We got, David gave me for Christmas last year, no, it was for my birthday, actually, a margarita kit.

So a bottle of tequila, a bottle of Cointro, some limes, and a cocktail shaker.

So that was amazing.

So I could just about make that now.

It's one part of one and two parts of the other, I think.

The martini, no, but whatever's in a normal normal martini, I suppose.

Would it be vodka or gin, I guess?

It'd probably be vodka, I guess.

No, it was definitely vodka.

Yeah, it was definitely vodka.

Salt and caramel, of course.

Salt and sugar.

Do you make a good margarita?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, either you put it.

I mean, it's hard to make a bad one.

Right.

You put in tequila and cointro and lime and salt on the glass.

Brilliant.

The problem with this podcast is

we always will do it in the day and then the three of us will text each other in the evening because we're eating or drinking whatever the person talked about.

So yeah, so we'll probably all be texted on to like going and got a margarita.

Yeah, I could really go for a margarita, actually.

I'm going out tonight.

I might have a margarita.

Yeah?

Yeah.

Where are you going?

Well, it's Valentine's.

Oh, yeah.

Of course.

For the listener, we're recording this on Valentine's Day.

Me and my fiancé are going to see Book of Mormon, then we're going for a late-night Chinese meal at Park Chinois.

Seriously?

Yes.

That is a brilliant Valentine's Day.

Yeah, right.

I'm really excited about it.

Yeah.

I think it'll be a good night out.

That's nice that you've got a fiancée.

Yeah, nice, right?

Being engaged is brilliant.

Yeah.

Join that bit.

You're saying the next bit's not good.

Yeah, being married is also.

There was way too much nostalgia in your voice there.

No, you know what it is.

Being married is also brilliant, but for me, being engaged was the big change.

Because once you're engaged, that's it.

I'm done.

This is it.

It's for life.

You sort of made the decision then.

So the marriage bit is also lovely, and you go, my husband, and that's all nice.

But the engaged thing is what felt like a completely different world.

Yes, yeah, that's how it came.

And that's so weird.

If we have a big row, we don't break up.

So

it doesn't really matter.

You just kind of...

Not that we do row, but you.

We come now to the dessert.

Obviously, I feel like I'm ready for this.

I mean, you know, I feel more optimistic now that you've chosen a pudding as your drink.

So, like, I feel okay.

Although Ed seems to be also eerily calm.

I'm calm.

Thinking that you're completely on his side with the pudding.

Well, I know you're not going to pick cheese and biscuits.

We know that.

I'm not going to pick the cheese and biscuits.

I think, well, a slight complication for me with dessert is always my favourite desserts have cream in, but I don't like cream.

Interesting sentence.

So at my dream restaurant.

Hold on a second.

Yeah.

James, you can't let that slide.

We will need to know why that is.

Why I don't like cream.

Why are things your favourite if a component of them you don't like?

I know, it's masochistic, isn't it?

I don't know.

But for example, a trifle.

Everything in it is delicious, and then, but it has cream in, and that ruins it.

But if it's my dream restaurant, I could have it without.

yes so now you have the sponge soaked in sherry and the tinned mandarin and maybe some jelly and a lot of custards

in the hundreds and thousands no cream yes absolutely you just take the top layer off yeah that's fine

or my mother's chestnut roulard delicious minced chestnut paste

wrapped around cream but you could have it without the cream totally yeah um

but if that's too complicated i would perhaps say rice pudding because that's very milky but not cream.

It's weird, isn't it?

I love dairy products, but not cream.

Are you all right, James?

You don't like rice pudding?

I haven't got a major issue with rice pudding.

Is it too like cheese?

But I think it's pretty bland.

And I may be

a little bit on the edge.

I think we should say rice pudding is the order then, if this is what it's doing to it.

What are you putting stuff in the rice pudding, though, surely?

Well,

some milk, some butter obviously you butter the dish lovely lots of lots of lovely rich butter around the dish put like a blob of jam in the rice pudding obviously or something oh um you know you're like

you can have jam

would you feel happy if i sprinkled some cinnamon on there

you don't want to ruin it

this simple like a bowl of porridge it's the oh lovely bowl of porridge is lovely but it's not a pudding thing i think no i think you don't want to mess with it you want some lovely butter in the dish milk, a bit of pudding rice, and maybe a sprinkle of sugar and cinnamon.

Yum, yum, yum, yum, yum.

Okay.

Pure.

Where?

Okay.

Where's the best place you've had?

I'm going to reserve judgment.

Yeah.

For now.

Well, you've not.

You're really angry, and you've clearly made your judgment already.

And I'm disappointed with myself, Victoria.

I don't want to behave like this during your episode.

It's not.

Sometimes it's when you go in with your guard down, and I've got into this episode with my guard down.

I'll hold my hand up.

I thought I was on the completely safe territory here, and I didn't think I was throwing so many curveballs.

Did I seem like someone who'd like really fancy food?

Not fancy, not fancy.

Like, Tom Kevin shows a big Knickerbocker Glory, and I was like, yep.

Yeah.

So not fancy.

No, but Knickerbocker Glory is covered in cream.

If it was just the ice cream and the cherry and the nuts,

fine.

Yes.

Okay, I can understand the cream thing.

I don't mind the rice pudding, but I agree it's got to have a dollar per jam or something on it.

But then I think I'm mainly just eating the jam.

Like with porridge as well, whatever's on the porridge, I would prefer to just eat the thing that's.

It's somewhat sweet and milky.

A little bit of nutmeg, maybe?

Where's the best one you've had?

The best one I've had.

The best rice pudding you've ever had.

Do you know what I love?

The tinned one.

But you couldn't ask for that.

No, Ambrosia.

You didn't ask for that.

Creamed rice.

I'm kind of a girl.

I wouldn't in a restaurant that would be rude.

I feel like Victoria's come here to troll me.

But this is your dream restaurant.

If you want the genie to go and open a can of Ambrosia rice pudding, you can totally do that.

You can't, don't feel bad about that.

Do you know what?

I'm having a flashback to a time when we were about seven

and my mum made rice pudding, and obviously that's the best one.

Obviously, if I could have it, I'd have it in our childhood house, and my mum's made it.

But I'm remembering my brother's friend Adam Rosen had come for tea and it was rice pudding, and he said, Can I have jam in it?

My mum said, No.

And at the time, I thought, quite right, no, you don't put jam in a rice pudding.

You know, when you're that age, you are absolutely certain that your parents are right about it.

Of course, you don't.

Then years later, I did feel sorry for him because I thought, well, obviously, I mean, in his house, they do have jam.

It would have been very disappointing.

He was quite politely asked for some jam, and he's like,

no.

No, no.

Shut up, Adam Rosalie.

No.

He doesn't have any jam.

Oh, poor Adam Rosalie.

He just wanted some jam in there.

That's all he wanted, wasn't it?

A bit of jam.

So you would like a tin of ambrosia rice pudding.

Or do you want your mother's rice pudding?

You asked what was my favourite one, and I

do love the ambrosium, but I think no, I don't think I'd have a tinned one because that would seem odd.

And also, you have that cold.

And I think after I've had a cold main course, haven't I?

I've had the plow ones and the cucumber salad.

So, I think you want a hot pudding.

Hot pudding.

So, I think my mother's

with no jam.

Lovely.

You would like plain rice pudding?

It's not plain.

It's got a bit of cinnamon.

A bit of cinnamon in the rice pudding.

A bit of nutmeg, maybe.

Cinnamon, a bit of nutmeg.

Lovely.

I tell you what, I won't have food poisoning.

Because I've chosen simple things.

You've chosen simple things.

It's a vegetarian meal, I think.

I don't think we've had any meat.

No meat.

It's all stuff I'm familiar with.

I'm not going to be up at five in the morning feeling ill.

No.

I'm going to be sated,

full, comforted.

You'll definitely be all of those things.

It's a very homely, comforting meal, I think.

However, I will be up at five in the morning feeling furious.

I'll be the one staying up all night, pacing them out and watching.

I don't know why she chose that space.

Let me tell you this.

When you publish the recipe book for this show,

I bet you any amount you like, my page is going to be the one that's covered in flecks of milk and flour, the edge bent over.

People scribbling in the margin, what's the best sort of Stilton to have, the recipe for the vinaigrette.

People are going to be flicking over your pages of, you know, whatever other people chicken feet stew.

Very interesting.

But they'll be eating my ones.

They'll be making your ones.

Right, now we come to the part of the show where I read your order back to you.

I cannot wait.

I don't know how I'm going to do this one.

I think, weirdly, this

has made me the angry stuff of all of us.

I don't think.

It definitely has.

It definitely has.

And I don't know how you've done it.

I don't know how you've done it, Victoria.

This is amazing.

I don't.

Do you know what's awful?

This is like my dad, you see, when I was little.

And we'd go to a restaurant and I go, can I have an avocado and a plain spaghetti with butter?

And my dad would say to the waiter, Spaghetti al burro, because he tried to make it sound more exotic.

And then he'd hiss at me.

It's not proper.

We'd come to a restaurant, you're not having a proper thing.

It's just like you're like him.

I do feel like your father,

but I'm in the position where, you know, not only is it a restaurant, it's a dream fantasy, whatever you like, limitless possibilities one.

And so I'm losing it even more.

Let's hear Victoria's dream meal, please.

Victoria, you would like tap water.

Here's the thing.

thing.

Here's the thing.

Tap water didn't annoy me the first time round, and now it is.

Now it's annoying.

In the bigger picture, it's very frustrating.

I'm imagining also it's tap water from your own home as well.

Why not?

From my house.

You would like for your dream meal, tap water.

Bread with lots of butter, warm wholemeal roll with raisins.

Ah, I'm nostalgic for those days.

That was when you made me want that.

I really want to go home and have that.

I'm genuinely going to eat that at some point soon.

Starter, just an avocado with some vinaigrettes.

Main, a plowman's with cheddar stilt and triangles of bread.

I'm actually genuinely digging my fingers into my leg.

I'm grabbing my leg so hard that I'm causing myself pain to get myself through the sentence because it's so long.

I think it sounds delicious.

Triangles of bread, grapes, apple, pickle, no celery.

Side, cucumber salad, the home.

I like sounding that very much.

Drink, salted caramel martini.

I'm going to just stare at that sentence for a bit longer so I don't have to move on.

Dessert.

Rice pudding with a little bit of cinnamon.

Mother's homemade rice pudding.

Yeah.

Lovely.

Lovely.

I don't know.

That sounds nice.

That's more of a amazing.

You know.

I mean, maybe I'm just wound up because it's Valentine's Day.

Maybe that's what it is.

Maybe it's not about Victoria.

I'm taking it out on it.

No, it's definitely about that menu.

Definitely about that menu, isn't it?

But you could eat that and you could get on with your day.

Yep, you could eat.

You could have that.

You're right.

If I have that for my Valentine's meal, I'll be having you tonight as you tuck into your badger enuiette with orange sauce.

It'll come back into your mind how delicious the simple pleasure of a plowman's.

Of a ploughman's.

Yeah, maybe, maybe.

Well,

thank you very much for coming to the Dream Restaurant, Victoria.

I feel like this episode will cause much discussion online.

Yeah, I mean,

I'll be honest, Victoria, I think

I'm going to come off as the bad guy on this one.

I really don't feel good about it.

Well, it's been a lovely visit.

I didn't expect to be harangued by the waiter.

I'm not leaving anything for service, but the meal was delicious.

Feel free to write whatever you like on TripAdvisor.

Yeah, yeah,

I could only apologize.

Okay, you're right, James.

That's the uh Victoria's gone now.

James is just getting, really getting some stuff out of his system.

I can't be, it's even weirder.

Now she's gone, it's even more infuriated.

I, I, I, I, I, the thing is, Ed, is that she's such a nice person, and so it just feels, I feel awful being this angry about it.

Yeah, but you're very angry.

Tap water, just an avocado, just an avocado to start, a plowman's lunch and rice pudding.

I tell you what,

I am not fully on board with the menu.

You know, it's not necessarily my sort of thing.

But I would have every guest pick a menu like that to see this reaction from you.

Oh,

I would have that lovely cucumber salad and salted caramel martini.

That all comes with the meal.

You need to have the whole meal if you want those things.

Lunch.

Plowman's.

A cold mane.

I'll just describe what James is doing now.

He's so frustrated.

He's put his hands backwards onto the side of his face.

He looks like

the dinosaur and Jurassic part that spits in Wayne Knight's face yes yeah that's exactly what yeah he probably was spitting all the time so he just heard about someone ordering a plowman

spitting out Bradston pickle disgusting yeah that's what it is in Wayne Knight's face is Bradston pickle going into his eyes because he's spitting out a plowman's this is disgusting look the reason we do this podcast is we like to investigate people's food tastes we like to talk about them about what they enjoy and of course it's going to be a spectrum of tastes James

I think that Victoria just knew that we were going to pick a quail's egg for her.

And then she was like, she's like, oh, they'll probably pick something fancy for me as the secret ingredient.

So I'll just go as bland as I possibly can

so that I won't fall into any traps.

I won't get kicked out of the restaurant.

Nowhere a quail's egg was popping up in that pub menu.

So, James, that's it for another week.

You're going to have to go and calm yourself down, mate.

Oh, somehow I will.

Maybe I'll calm myself down by eating some more Frankamanka pizza because they sent us loads of free pizza, didn't they, Ed?

They did.

I tell you, I'm glad it didn't arrive on the day we were doing an episode with Victoria.

I'd imagine she would have been straight in the toilet to eat a sandwich if she even saw an artichoke.

Eat a little plain bread and butter sandwich.

James West.

Can people come and see you be this angry live?

Oh, hopefully not.

Hopefully, I won't be this angry when you see me live.

But I don't know when I'm actually going to get over this.

So at the time of recording, who knows?

Yeah, I'm on tour.

All the dates are on my website.

Also, you know, just

loads of other, I've plugged up my stuff on this site.

Go on Netflix, watch my Netflix specials repertoire.

Yeah.

I've got a book out called classic scrapes please buy that they're all funny stories i i back all those things i want you to go and do all of those things uh i'm probably on tour if you go on edgamble.co.uk forward slash gigs check out my twitter at edgamble comedy instagram's the same check out the off menu social media yes twitter at off menu official same on instagram and check out our fancy website off menupodcast.co.uk.

All the episodes are on there, I imagine.

Yes, and please rate, subscribe, do all of that lovely stuff, spread the word, get it up to charts, and keep listening.

Okay, I'm gonna lay down now, Ed.

Go and take a breath, man.

Sucks!

The new musical has made Tony award-winning history on Broadway.

We the man to be home.

Winner, best score.

We the man to be seen.

Winner, best book.

We the man to be quality.

It's a theatrical masterpiece that's thrilling, inspiring, dazzlingly entertaining, and unquestionably the most emotionally stirring musical this season.

Suffs, playing the Orpheum Theater, October 22nd through November 9th.

Tickets at BroadwaySF.com.

Oh, hello, it's Amy Gladhill here.

Hello, I'm Harriet Kemsley.

Single ladies is coming to London.

Well, we're already in London, I suppose, in a way, but we're doing a live show, aren't we?

It's true on Saturday, the 13th of September at 7pm at King's Place.

So we've got your Saturday night sorted.

We've done all the organising for you.

Come along, have some drinks, alcoholic or non-alcoholic, both are available.

And you can get your tickets from plursive.co.uk.

Or just head to the the link in our Instagram bio and just clickity click click.

London, we're coming.