Ep 8: Tom Kerridge

James, huge news from the world of off-menu and indeed the world of the world.

Yes.

Ever heard of the Royal Albert Hall?

I have.

We've done live shows there.

And guess what?

We're doing more live shows there next year.

Sure, a lot of them are sold out already.

But we thought, hey, throw these guys a bone.

Let's put on one final Royal Albert Hall show in that run.

The show will be on Monday, the 16th of March.

It's going to be a tasting menu, a returning guest coming back, receiving the menu of another previous guest.

Those shows have been a lot of fun.

We cannot wait to do them live.

Who will we pull out of our little magic bag?

You'll have to come along on the 16th of March to find out.

If I'm correct in thinking, presale tickets go on pre-sale on the 10th of September.

Pre-sale tickets are 10th of September at 10 a.m.

And then the general sale is 12th of September at 10 a.m.

So if you miss out on the pre-sale, don't forget general sale is only two days later.

The day in between is for reflecting.

Get your tickets from royalalberthall.com or offmenupodcast.co.uk.

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You check your feed and your account.

You check the score and the restaurant reviews.

You check your hair and reflective surfaces and the world around you for recession indicators.

So you check all that, but you don't check to see what your ride options are.

In this economy, next time, check Lyft.

Oh,

no.

It's the off-menu podcast.

We have James A.

Caster.

That's you saying that, and Ed Gamble, that's me saying that.

Hello, James.

Hello, Ed.

How are you?

I'm good, mate.

Good to see you.

You can find Fettle.

Thank you.

What does that mean?

Nice cap.

That's definitely good.

Thanks very much.

Hey, great episode today.

Oh, such a great episode.

We're very excited.

Very excited because it's our first ever chef, Tom Kerridge.

And if you're here because you're a fan of Tom and you've never listened to the podcast before, what is it, James?

We are going to ask Tom Kerridge what the best ever, or just his favourite starter, main, side, drink, and dessert are.

He can order whatever he likes in our magical restaurant, and I'm a genie.

And James is a genie, but we'll come to that.

That actually, there's more depths to the genie revealed today that even I didn't know about, James.

Or me.

Or you.

So it's very exciting.

Are you telling me you were riffing that off the top of your head?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I just noticed them for the first time.

I noticed those details for the first time.

I see, I see.

Yes.

Hey, I tell you what, finally, this podcast is paying off.

This is very exciting.

Right.

We have been sent some chocolate for free.

Oh, yes.

From Brooklyn, America.

Is that your impression of someone from Brooklyn?

I think so.

Yeah.

9-9.

It's like posh, proper chocolate.

A lady called Sarah contacted me on Instagram and said, Would you like some chocolate from the company that I work for?

It's called Raka

chocolate, R-double-A-K-A.

It's unroasted dark chocolate, and it comes in like, it's come in this posh box.

Box looks good.

It's so cool and hipster, and I love it.

There's like a booklet about how they make it.

There's all these different flavours, like pink sea salt, and bourbon, and bananas foster.

Bananas Foster.

Now we've got to divvy this up fairly.

Okay.

What flavours do you want?

Well, that's a fun game.

You can try and guess what flavours I want because I think you'd be able to get the pretty.

Well you want bananas foster.

Yeah, or they gave the game away there, didn't they?

And ain't no way I'm having bananas foster.

Thank you.

Sure, it's delicious, Sarah.

I think you might want bourbon, but also I want bourbon.

Yes, I would like that.

Thank you very much, Sarah, for sending us that chocolate.

And if you work for a cool artisan food company and you think, well, I won't send them anything because surely they won't mention the company just for some samples.

We fucking will.

Yes, we will.

We do not care when it comes to getting free food.

We did this podcast for a reason.

We love food.

And so, therefore, if you send us food, we're going to talk about it.

And if you're into chocolate, we're going to stick some photos up of this.

We really will.

We're really going the whole hog with this.

Yeah.

I think it's great.

If I followed this podcast on Twitter and stuff, I'd want to see the photos of the chocolate and then buy the chocolate, eat it.

This is great.

This is exactly what I don't even know if anyone's listening to this thing.

We're a couple of sellouts.

You can go ram yourself.

Right, so great episode today.

Such great episode.

Tom Kevidge, though, he will be in trouble if he says he wants quinoa in his food.

Every week we have a secret ingredient that if the guests mentions the secret ingredient in their dream meal, they're out on their ear.

They get kicked out of the restaurant, banned for life.

The secret ingredient this week, as James said, is quinoa.

I just don't get it.

I'm going to hold my hands up.

I don't mind a bit of quinoa.

Yeah, sure.

I don't mind it.

No one's eating quinoa since it's delicious, though.

No, but I like the texture.

I like the nutty flavour.

I don't like the texture.

It annoys me.

Right, well, I'm willing to go with you on this one.

If Kerridge mentions quinoa, he's out.

Kevins mentions quinoa.

More difficult to say than I'd imagine, that.

Quite fun to say, though.

Kevin's mentions quinoa.

But you're saying Menshaj.

Menshensch.

This is not the cleanest intro we've ever done, but Kevin's Menshosh Kinoir.

Kevin Smensch Kinois.

If Kevin Mentions Kiwa, he's got a bit in trouble.

Oh, and this week, keep listening until the end because we've got some bonus content, right?

That's the bonus content noise, as is tradition in the world of podcasting.

So keep listening towards the end for some bonus content.

Follow us on social media at Off Menu Official on Twitter and Instagram.

Subscribe, like, review, all that stuff.

I'll be saying that at the end as well.

But here, finally, we've battled through this intro.

The brilliant Tom Kerridge.

We're here with Tom Kerridge.

Hello, Tom.

Hello, how are you?

Good.

Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

We feel very honored to have our first chef guest here.

Thanks very much for having me.

Chef number one.

Now, I don't know if you're aware of the podcast, Tom, but James is a genie in this.

Yeah,

actually, I've done a bit of research.

I listened to one on the way on the car this morning.

Absolutely perfect.

That's what we like to hear.

I like the genie's arrival.

Thank you very much.

Well,

you just got to see it for real there.

Yeah, was it?

It was a person to see me coming out of the lamp.

Yeah.

Yeah, we don't know.

Not many people expect.

I come out feet first.

You're a very off-beat genie.

Yeah, yeah.

Feet first, I'll land at my head.

With odd socks on.

Yeah, yeah, with odd socks.

And people don't know, ooh, there's two people coming out the lamp.

I know.

It was one guy with odd socks on.

Keep everyone guessing.

Unlike most genies, James wears socks.

Yes,

that's true.

Because I don't know if you've seen genies before, but they don't tend to have feet normally.

They're socks.

And only socks.

I cover cover my modesty with a rubber ring, like from a swimming pool.

That's what I'm wearing.

So much being added to the genie lore today.

Yeah, well, it's about time.

People needed a bit of an update on what my life is like.

Socks and a rubber ring.

Yeah.

And that's it?

Yeah.

But when we said odd socks, one of them is a big old football sock, and one of them is one of those half socks that people wear to make it look like they've got no socks when they're hipsters.

Trainer socks.

Yeah, trainer socks.

That's what I'm wearing.

That's what I'm wearing.

Well, welcome.

You've really come into the deep end here, Tom.

I'll be honest.

Yes.

It's first thing in the morning, and James hasn't had a coffee or anything.

Worry about being in the deep end.

I can lend you my rubber ring, if you'd like.

No, I'm not.

I can see where it's been.

I'd rather not.

What's your kitchen like in the lamp, James?

Oh, it's...

Are you cooking in the lamp?

Well, yeah, let's face it.

I'm a magical genie.

I can make people whatever food they want.

So it's basically all the, if you can imagine all the kitchens in the world in one, that's what it is.

All state-of-the-art equipment.

But I know you like to look after other people and cook them whatever they want, but what are you cooking for yourself in the lamp?

I mean, I'm a humble genie.

I'm not eating anything, I'm not cooking anything for myself.

Yeah, but we've got Tom here now.

He's just got a new book out.

Oh, yeah.

About cooking for yourself.

And that's what you were trying to get me around to.

Yeah.

I want a chance to talk about his book.

And you're so within the genie character now.

I was too in the character of the genie.

You've got to remember, Ed.

It doesn't make sense for genies to do that.

But yeah, yeah, okay, yeah.

I'm cooking myself some food from tom kill just fresh start

thanks ed that's all we do

we got there eventually

i'm doing more promo for socks on i am for tomorrow's book

um james told me before you arrived that he can't cook in his flat at the moment because he doesn't have an extractor fan it's uh it's a bit of a nightmare yeah there's uh the smoke alarms uh are hooked up to like pretty much every room in the flat so if i set the smoke alarm off i'll wake everybody up in the whole building that's bad times like everyone knows that noise the smoke the toast burial the toast smoke alarm feeling i did it first day of uh university in the halls of residence i set off the fire alarm with the toaster at like one in the morning and everyone had to go outside in their dressing gowns oh boy it was really embarrassing well well you have bad dressing gowns but awful dressing gowns and they all knew it was me with

black crumbs around my mouth

stuff in his face yeah

well that's a fair reason to not cook no extraction But I'm sorting it out.

I'm getting an extractor fan.

It's important to me, Tom, as it should be to everyone, right?

Yeah, extraction fans are very.

And you actually want one that actually extracts, not the ones that just turn on and make a noise.

They just make a noise out.

They're pretending to extract.

You want a real one that actually sucks stuff out.

Because those ones will trick people like me, early doors.

Yeah.

Here it's like that's working.

No, you do want something that extracts proper.

Yeah.

But we're, me and you, Tom, we're brothers in brothers in weight loss.

Yeah, I've also lost a lot of weight in my life and changed my lifestyle.

Six, six stone, that's pretty massive.

Six stone is still a huge, and it's a huge amount, so it's like a big child, big child, yeah, yeah, that's

yeah, yeah, or a very small adult.

How many did you?

Well, I lost, I probably lost, I mean, the best part of 12 stone originally.

Then I've started going to the gym a lot.

So, probably overall, around about 11 stone, 10, 11 stone.

Absolute shame.

Yeah, but I'm a lot bigger.

I'm a lot taller.

And I was a lot bigger.

I mean, I was like a massive lump.

A massive lump.

So, yeah, I've shifted some timber, but I'm still like a massive lump.

There was some time on the circuit where all anyone was talking about was: have you seen Ed Gamble lately?

That is not, that's not even a lie.

Everything got turned up at.

First person who walked in, have you seen Ed Gamble?

It doesn't look like Ed Gamble anymore.

He looks fit.

He looks fucking sexy.

Everyone thought he was so sexy.

It was so funny.

Because I mean, it's true.

That's funny to you, was it?

It was funny that everyone was saying how sexy you were.

Yeah.

I didn't disagree with him, Med, but it was really funny that all of a sudden, all anyone could talk about was how sexy you were.

See, Daddy said you're sexy though.

True, though.

It is very true.

I think...

cooking at home is you'd learn more about food and you have more of an appreciation for it right you well yeah i mean when you put the ingredients in you learn a lot about it i mean food is i mean food i mean the most amazing thing about it is you can go around the world with food it doesn't matter where you're at in your kitchen with no extraction you could still be cooking a dish from thailand you know you could like that's the most beautiful thing about it and it's great for kids as well the fact that there's so many things there's taste texture color flavor variety history geography that all comes into food so it's a great learning curve for family so that's why food ticks a lot of boxes yeah you know and at the end of the day when you make something and you get to eat it, like it's quite a nice reward,

yeah, it really is.

You feel so chuffed with yourself, I think.

Sometimes, if I if I'm going out to eat and I don't like the meal very much, I try and imagine that I've cooked it because then uh, I like it more.

You're one of the oddest people I've ever met in my life, no, but it's true because I'm like, actually, it's pretty good for me,

you know,

but that works, yeah.

I've done all right here, actually, but then you you have to give somebody else money.

Yeah, yeah, or pay someone else for the fantasy.

Yeah, sure.

But you know.

Tom, today you don't have to cook.

No, because you're at the dream restaurant.

Yeah.

The waiter's already appeared.

And now he's just shot some guns for no reason.

Oh, just kill some people outside.

This episode's going to be very tense.

The cops are coming.

So, first of all, can I get you some water, Tom?

Would you like still or sparkling water?

I quite like

sparkling, actually.

Sparkling is pretty.

I mean, either.

Either way, it doesn't really matter.

But whatever's easiest,

I always say whatever's easiest to the waiter.

And this is sometimes it confuses them halfway through a meal because then I might have sparkling water in a glass.

And when they top it up, they put still.

All that goes the other way around.

They end up with half and half water.

So I don't, I like, and I'll just drink it.

I'm not bothered.

Because they're just giving you whatever is easiest, which means exactly.

Whatever is what, nearby, I mean, supply yeah so that's what's through yeah yeah exactly well that'll do it's still clear and wet that's fine i mean yeah if i was a waiter and you said whatever's easiest which i am a waiter and you have to you're a genie you're a genie waiter um i am gonna at some point give you a bit of half and a half because i want to i've never seen someone drink some half and a half before

i've never seen someone drink half still half sparkling i'd want to see what that's a maverick move it's kind of like it's like really boring sparkling water right yeah yeah yeah just a hint yeah it's like if you've opened a bottle of sparkling water you've drank drank it and then you've left it in the fridge for five days and then you drink it again that's what it's like

that's what that's what top chef tom care is

that's your first choice tom what do you go to

old sparkling water

very specific

aged very well what year is this water

so that's uh sparkling water that's a good good good choice

half and half that's the first half and half we've had first half and half sparkling

a little bit of Starkling.

Yeah.

Pop it up to bread.

Pop it up to bread, Tom.

I've got to be honest, so I try and do low carbs, so neither.

I'm going to give them both a swerve.

Oh, that's the first time anyone swerved it.

Are you going to go rogue and go prawn crackers?

Because that's a secret one.

You can go for that if you want to.

Well, I'll also throw another one out there.

I've got a shellfish allergy, so I'll swerve those as well.

It's not getting off to a great start at at this restaurant.

I love it.

I absolutely love it.

I never expected anyone to swerve pop-adoms or bread.

No.

So you

not want either of them.

I will be firm on this and go, I'll be able to get a lot of time.

I don't want both of them.

Yes.

But I go, actually, no, I'm going to have neither.

So.

When's the last time you had a pop-a-dom?

I don't know.

It would have been some point towards the end of last year, I would have thought.

Oh, I'd be at some point.

Like, it's not, it's sometimes every now and then you you fall off the wagon, but most of the time, I'm pretty good.

So, yeah, it's not.

So, what's the most tempting one?

Pop or bread, bread, yeah, bread, bread, bread, every freshly baked, amazing, crusty bread with loads of salty butter on, like, amazing.

That would be delicious.

Yeah, so now you've talked me into it.

I'll have bread, please.

Did you talk me into that?

I don't know.

When you listen back to that, we didn't say anything for about 20 minutes, Tommy.

Describing the bread and the smells.

Yeah, you spoke like someone freshly baked wonderful baguette crusty on there so still warm in the middle with loads of like freshly churned salted butter and delicious yeah that that please have you so when you say freshly churned because i reckon you're probably one of the only guests we've had on the podcast you've probably had some pretty fresh butter Yeah.

Like some, probably you've probably been to a dairy farm and had some like...

Straight out of the cow.

I tell you what, one of the most amazing meals I've had was in a restaurant called Fransen, which is in Stockholm.

and they made the bread and the butter in front of you.

It was honestly mind-blowing.

So when you got to the table instead of it being a vase with flowers in or whatever the table like decoration in front of you was a block with a wooden block with a bread dough proving in front of you with a glass lid on it.

And then you had a couple of courses in and then they take the bread away to bake it to what because it's proved up in front of you.

Then they go and bake it and whilst they're baking it the waiter comes to the table with raw cream and beats the cream so it separates, pours the milk away and turns it into butter in front of you and serves the butter just freshly made with salt and then the bread comes back fresh from the oven.

It was like a mind-blowing.

And it's the simplest thing that made it outstanding.

And then you had to say to them, I don't do carbs.

Yeah.

I mean, what are...

I've got to be honest,

that was before my life-changing epiphany.

By that point, I probably had three bottles of wine and seven gin and tonics.

And I was like, this is amazing bread.

I actually ordered it again.

I was like, give us more bread.

It was a weekend away with a couple of chefs, and it was, yeah, it was Chaos and Mayhem.

So we were like, get me more of that bread, which actually threw them a little bit because there wasn't any more proving in front of the team.

So I think they probably had to steal somebody else's bread.

Because that's all about the sort of theatre of it, really, isn't it?

And that's like going to a play and then going, first half again.

I loved it.

That was so good.

Do it all again.

And then, what?

Come on.

I'll pay you.

That sounds absolutely incredible.

Yeah, that was brilliant.

So, I've had very that's very fresh butter.

That is, yeah.

Oh, I want some right now on its own.

I eat that butter on its own, I reckon.

No, I'm not letting my mouth off.

How strong were the waiters?

They must have been really strong waiters, like just beating butter all day in front of me.

Well, it was just one guy with one massive arm.

Oh, yeah,

yeah, living that tortured existence.

Yeah, poor man

For your starter, sir.

Yeah.

Well, I kind of

been very fortunate.

I've travelled like loads, and food has been part of my life.

Like, I've been a chef for 27 years, but some of the simplest things are the best.

So, I quite like calamari, please, with some very simply made fresh mayonnaise.

That would be delicious.

Now, a lot of plates here, I reckon

most of the time when I go out to eat and I haven't been there before, I'll look for the calamari.

You're a proper squid boy, yeah.

I'm a squeaky.

I had squid with you yesterday.

Yeah, you You saw me order it.

I'm not lying just to impress Kerridge.

It's a good safety option as well.

If you're in a new restaurant and you don't know what it is and you're a little bit unsure, squid is a

calamara is a good safety option, although there is a little bit of a downfall that I don't think a lot of people know that quite often those squid rings, they're reformed.

Yeah, quite often they're like processed squid meat that's then piped.

You'll be able to tell the ones that are almost circular rather than just flat.

Do you know what I mean?

So if they're they're reformed yeah and then fresh so it's it's not fresh squid rings so it's got to be fresh squid rings not the reformed ones that i don't know where you ate yesterday but you know

somewhere in camden it was uh our friend took us to a place in camden yeah but that was i mean to be fair that was baby squid yeah you did yeah yeah so you can't go baby squid there

fair play to them yeah

that would be more hassle than it's worth really wouldn't it that would be hours of craft absolute artist yeah

and you polished it off in seconds yeah yeah

it didn't even bat an eye did where's the place you've had the best calamari grease like i i love grease as a holiday it's an amazing space sat sat on a on a kind of like just one of those taverna like things on the front of the beach

watching the sun go down eating calamari amazing like i love it is that important to you setting

well i think

from a restaurant's point of view it is quite they're the things that make restaurants work is the whole environment it's not just the food because you can have amazing food in places, but it's not always necessarily served well.

I mean, not like the standard of waiter that we have here, and

definitely not in an environment like

I mean, this is outstanding, but you know,

when you tick all of those boxes, that does make some of the best, some of the best meals you can ever have are with the company that you've got and the place it is, as well as the food being good.

So, it does, yeah, it does make a difference.

It does make a difference.

My dad has a theory that I think this is specifically when you go on holiday, though.

If the restaurant has a lovely view or an amazing surrounding, the worse the food's going to be.

And you have to find the place, like say you're in Greece, you have to find the place that's like down a side street and there's like a...

like mangy old dog walking past and they're going to have the best food because they have to to get people in.

Yeah, that's a fair theory, particularly in holiday resorts.

I remember once we went to a place in Cyprus with

my wife and my little man and we went and

we were driving, I got a taxi driver to take us into town and it it does take us to somewhere nice at Twerna Place.

And as he drove into town, there was this place on the right-hand side.

And he goes, That's where I go.

That's where all the taxi drivers go.

Yeah.

And then, but I'll drop you in town at the front.

And we went to the front, and they're just these packed tourist places.

The bloke at the front going, come on in, very nice.

Come on in.

And he's like, hold on a minute.

Let's go back to where the taxi drives are.

And we went back there.

And it was amazing.

It was an incredible meal.

Cooked by...

Three lovely old ladies in the kitchen doing beautiful stews and stuff.

So yeah, your dad's theory definitely worked in Cyprus then.

Yeah.

The closer to a landmark something is the worse it is

i'd agree with that

yeah it's close to a landmark

or just we'll just get the stragglers doesn't matter you just get all the tourists who are walking around going often like i went to paris last year for one day because my sister's family were there and they got little kids so we went to the eiffel tower and then it's like we need to eat you can't walk around paris fades with little kids on your phone going no i've googled the best place

so you just got to go to the nearest place and then you're sitting there going going, We are absolute mugs.

Spending 20 euros on a really bad credit.

On like a really bad burger, it was so bad.

I mean, we all, we all, the company was nice, sure,

but not good enough to

be great.

Company, always good enough.

I'll eat anything with my family head, and you know it.

Big wedge of lemon with the calamari, yeah.

I quite like a big wedge of lemon, give it a good squeeze on it, definitely.

Yeah, I think

you need that acidity, it is really good.

I mean, it's only only a little bit like putting malt vinegar on fish and chips and it's like that acidity that brings it to life so yeah it's a big moment though when you start doing that as a kid you're not doing it no

that is very you won't never see the kid squeezing a wedge of lemon over

never happens what's going on what you eating olives as well you little punk

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As an adult, I remember the first time I ordered some fish and chips and went, I'm actually going to use that lemon and squeeze it over my battered cod.

Absolute game changer.

And then tartar sauce as well.

You're not doing that as a kid.

No, no kids having tartar sauce, are they?

No, you're not any of that.

Too sharp for a kid's palate.

But as soon as I started doing that, oh, what a game changer.

Well, I'll tell you what, because it's funny, because that is my main course, is fish and chips.

Is it?

It is my main course is fish and chips.

That's what I've chosen.

We are having a day by the sea with Tom Kevin.

We are having a day by the sea.

Although, this fish and chips doesn't necessarily have to be by the sea.

I mean, like in an idyllic sort of situation, you're sat on a beach somewhere having fish and chips.

But

fish and chips are really special.

Like, you remember their childhood memories.

And like I say, it's a game changer when you put

tartar sauce or lemon juice on it because actually, as Mission Star chefs, what you're always looking for, any chef, is looking for a balance of texture, crunch, acidity, all of those sort of things that come into line.

So lemon or capers or gherkins that are in tartar sauce is about bringing everything into balance.

And it's the same sort of thing as a full English breakfast, which was a close second to my men call.

But the idea of going all of those flavours that are salty and kind of protein-led and starchy, that then you need something to balance it up.

And

this is where I think brown sauce and red sauce, that, all right, there's loads of sugar and salt in them.

But what you think about, they're a balance of acidity.

They're quite, they're sugar and vinegar that's reduced out and mixed together so when you put when people are putting red sauce on stuff and brown sauce all they're doing is bringing in a natural balance of cooking they're almost becoming michigan star chefs it's your mouth that's bringing it all together you want it all together so so what's your ideal like

is there somewhere you've had the best fish and chips you've ever had yeah well i mean it's such See, it sounds so simple, doesn't it?

Fish and chips, but there's nothing simple about it.

Like, some of the best fish and chips you'll have is, you know, when their chips are like really soggy and a bit rubbish because it's the summertime and there's too much, see, there's too much sugar in a potato in the summertime, there's not enough starch, and that's why new potatoes don't make great, they're not very good at chipping.

But you know, and then you, when you put malt vinegar on it and the paper is stuck to the chips and all that, actually, that's not that's quite a nice thing, yeah.

But I couldn't serve soggy chips with paper stuck to them in a restaurant, so you go, okay, so then we have to go down the triple cook chip route, which is kind of like, I mean, I mean, the whole science of it is boring, and I won't tell you on the on the on the podcast because like it will go on forever.

But you triple cook them to make sure they're lovely and crispy.

You go, well, then all of a sudden, like, you don't give as many chips, and it's the process costs too much money.

So, it's a very fine balance between the best chips in the world or soggy, wet ones covered in paper.

Yeah, and then that's it.

And then, also, you've got the fish.

Up north is haddock.

Everyone loves haddock.

Down south, it's cod.

Up north, they like to cook more often than not in beef dripping.

Down south, it's in veg oil.

So, like, it's it's a very like

political

massive, yeah.

And you don't know what would you have?

Would you have haddock?

See, would you have haddock cooked in veg oil?

That would spin everyone out.

That that that's like that's like the northern fish cooked the cooked the southern way.

Classic Kevin's half and half.

Yeah,

you're doing it again.

It is.

It's gonna go lovely with your glass of starkling.

He's splitting them immediately.

Yeah, so I mean, triple-cooked soggy chips, probably.

Yeah,

that's a nice idea.

Triple, I can have triple-cooked soggy chips with haddock from up north cooked in veg oil down south and served with and fishy, it's got to have mushy peas with it, undatedly.

And then,

and I'm never sure, right?

So, curry sauce or gravy, chips and gravy is amazing, right?

Fish and curry sauce, delicious.

Yeah.

So probably all of it.

You would want all of it.

Yeah, everything.

Also, right, have you always liked mushy peas?

Always liked mushy peas.

Always.

Always liked mushy peas.

Does this fit in with your theory that no kid has mushy peas?

No.

But as a kid, I did not like mushy peas.

But it's basically like baby food consistency, isn't it?

So you would have thought babies would be into mushy peas.

I did not like them.

And I used to work in a kitchen.

Worked in a few kitchens, actually, Tom.

And...

By the way, in the last kitchen he worked in, he was known as the Mash King.

That's true.

I love that.

Because I made the best mash.

Is that actually your name, the Mash King?

People would call me that.

Yeah.

I love that.

Some people think that maybe I was called that because no one else wanted to make the mash.

And they thought if they called me the Mash King, I'd want to do it.

But I don't think that's true.

Kitchen nicknames are quite good, there's a lot of them going around.

And they're not always complimentary, kitchen nicknames.

No, I have to be honest.

I work with a guy not in our kitchen, but he has a story of when he worked for a very famous chef.

And I won't tell you his, but he worked for him for six months.

And for the whole six months, he was known as Nob.

That was it.

No one actually knew his name.

He turned up on day one and he said, What's your name?

And he said, Doug.

And they went, and the head chef went, No, it's Nob.

And you're known as Nob from now on.

So for six months,

he was called Nob until he left.

Was that because it was his job to put the Nob of butter in the mash?

Exactly that, yeah.

Yeah, he would have worked quite well with you as the mash king.

Mash king and knob.

Mash king and knob and milky joe.

Milky Joe.

But it did then.

I actually use cream a lot of the time in the mash.

That's what I used to do.

That was my secret.

Yeah.

Shouldn't have told that to a chef.

No, no.

He's going to use it.

He's going to steal my secrets from me.

Take your throne.

Cream in mash.

Did he just write that down?

No, no.

Oh, no.

Oh, dear me.

I will no longer be the mash king.

Kevin just taking taking my crown.

And can I say, Tom, fish and chips are your main.

It's admirable how quickly the low-carb thing

out the window.

No, completely.

We've stuffed it right up here.

I've gone for freshly made bread, butter, fish and chips, calamar.

I'm like, but this is kind of like, I'm trying to view this.

Is this like my last meal, or is this the ultimate meal that doesn't matter?

Any way you want to view it, really.

But you've just got the best stuff you've had in your life, the thing you've got.

Yeah, I'm going to go to the fish and chips, don't worry.

We'll call it an off date and

we'll have fish and chips yeah definitely fish and chips if i'd like to return briefly uh to your recipes yeah because i've got a bone to pick with you okay um you're responsible for quite a um traumatic event in my life

um

so uh recently me and uh i was gonna say offended the podcast but everyone hates him joel dominant um we uh

We were a team on pointless, pointless comedians.

Yeah.

And

you've seen Pointless, you know how it works.

I know how it works, yeah.

So one of the rounds, second round in the show, was

five dishes by famous chefs.

And we had to name, all pasta dishes, and we had to name just an ingredient that was in any of those dishes.

One of them was Tom Kevidge's spaghetti bolognese.

That was one of the ones.

Joel Dommit.

He on his one he guessed a different dish by someone else.

Can't remember what it was.

He guessed capers.

It wasn't in any of the dishes.

We got 100 points.

Love that comes to me yeah i've got to save us now yeah we're going out if i don't get a low one

yeah

i'm looking at him i think ah someone told me that to plump up the beef sometimes in spaghetti bolognese people put dark chocolate in spaghetti bolognese i've got to get a low score i took a swing said dark chocolate and you already know tom that is not in your spaghetti bolognese and we went crashing out on 200 points

you be the epy on live.

And the reason we've asked you here today, Tom, is that James is going to settle some scores.

Well, no, but hold on a minute.

I might just start the train.

Dark chocolate.

Girl, come even more.

I love it here.

Any more recipes?

Oh, my God.

The next book's going to be creamy mash and chocolatey bolognese.

Chocolate cream mash.

Although, I mean, to be fair, I do put dark chocolate in a chili.

Oh, goddammit.

There you go.

you go.

She's very similar.

That stinks even more,

knowing that you do do it.

Do do it, but not in the bolognese.

What are in your bolognese?

What ingredient do you reckon would be a pointless answer?

Would be the least amount of people.

What is the most left-field ingredient in your spiritual body?

Well, I'll be honest, it's the one that I argue about most with my wife is whether carrots should be in it or not.

I mean, this is that.

There's always a household argument, right?

And in everybody's house about certain random things in ours, it's about carrots in bolognese.

Yeah, I think they should be in there.

Right.

My wife, Beth, definitely not.

No carrots.

So that would have been a no-pointer.

It depends who's made the bolognese.

How are you cutting them with carrots?

Perfectly diced, obviously.

That's what you say, obviously.

I'm a fan of a carrot in bolognese, I think.

Because you dice them small and they just sweeten it up, right?

Exactly, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've tried this argument, it doesn't work very well.

I understand you.

If you met my wife, you just go, yeah, yeah, fine, all right.

We just won't put carrots in it.

I'll show her, I'll put sweet potato.

That brings us back to Joel Domit, though, for mentioning sweet potatoes.

He had that as his side after having chicks as his main.

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Well, talking about side dishes, what would be your side dish, Tom?

Well,

so now it doesn't quite go with anything, right?

So we've gone aflo, we've gone through calamari, and now we're going for fish at it.

But

I've gone for an aubergine dish that I've had, that I had in Singapore.

Like, and it was, it was, like, it was amazing, like it was one of the most amazing meals I've ever had.

And I've had, like, I've been very fortunate, you know, you've been over the world and cooking in lots of different places and been shown.

And when you're in the food scene, you turn up in different places and they and they take you around.

Journalists and other chefs take you to the nightlife and see.

I don't know if you guys have been to to Singapore or not but there's

there's an amazing nightlife in Singapore it goes on all night it's a 24-hour city and there's also like it's it has a

very abundant and very busy red light area but in between the red light area it's very it's it's very well organized Singapore so there's a street of which is a red light area then there's a street of

food street food then there's a street of red light area then a street street food and like it's it's just like goes down like that so we went out after work work and obviously went to the street food.

Yeah.

And we sat there as a bunch of chefs until about four or five in the morning with this one guy cooking food and just bringing out loads and loads of different dishes.

And it was an aubergine dish.

And we were sat in something, it was called Rat Alley.

We were sat on tiny little plastic seats.

And we ate, it just brought out everything.

And it was amazing.

It was this little fried aubergine dish with lots of chilies on it and lots of like Singaporean Chinese style flavours.

And I couldn't tell you how we made it, but it was just delicious.

Doesn't really go with fish and chips, but I quite liked it.

I liked it.

Backs up your dad's theory.

Yeah, there you go.

Yeah.

Yeah, sitting in a little alleyway.

That's what the

rat alley.

It's not, it's definitely not like a tourist space.

Did the man have a big chef's hat on?

And is it possible there's a little rat there pulling his hair and making him make the

so that's how he's making all the food?

There may well have been, actually.

It was that.

It could have been rattatoury either.

It could have been ratatouille.

It could have been rattatouille.

It could have been ratatouille.

But yeah, that was um, that was yeah so that was a singer portrait which was incredible like and it is an amazing food scene it's a if you love food singapore as a city is fantastic because we've got everything from like street food for a pound through to like free mission star chefs cooking in posh hotels like there's everything that you want there but yeah but definitely an aubergine dish at four o'clock in the morning in rat alley next to a load of hookers was brilliant

it was a brilliant way to end the evening

and you were there with loads of different chefs yes and what was the was were you all there working or was it like a...

No, we were there working.

We were cooking, showcasing what we do, British food and stuff out there in a different space.

But then the hotel that we were working in, all the chefs that were there then said, come on, come on out with us.

So like when chefs get together, I mean, chefs are like pirates is the best way of describing it.

Kitchens are like pirate ships.

They're full of people that have been hit over the head and woke up one morning.

Yeah.

on a boat going somewhere and it's like they're amazing places there's also it's it's a hugely eclectic mix of people in a kitchen but they're all there for one reason most of them, when they're in their early 20s, is to get laid, drunk, and cook stuff.

So basically, like kitchens are like mental places.

So all of these chefs were out in Singapore in this crazy environment.

It was brilliant.

It was such a good space.

And as far as I remember, because those were still in my drinking days.

So I kind of like, I remember to the aubergine after that.

And who knows what?

Can you have an even better side dish after the aubergine?

Yeah.

And we will never know.

But the aubergine is so good.

Who knows what dessert was?

Yeah.

The aubergine is so good, it punches through like the fog of that night.

Yeah, it does.

It does.

And they also have something called stinky fruit.

I don't know if you've heard of it, durian fruit.

Oh, I have actually.

Oh, yeah.

There is nothing so smelly and bad as durian fruit.

It is the worst thing.

Like, oh my God, they have massive stores of it.

And they like great big green things that look about the size of a watermelon.

But

they...

they hum.

They smell.

The whole of the area where they smell.

And you cut them out.

And it's kind of like custody, custody,

like rotten custody in a friend.

But it's seen as a huge speciality, but it's they're not allowed in hotels, they're not allowed on planes, they're not, but they are, they are, they're, that's wrong, right?

That's that's

I have eaten it, yeah, I have eaten it.

Does it taste as bad as it smells?

It tastes worse, it was so bad.

But actually, one of the chefs that was with us, Chris, who's my head chef of one of the places, we were out there.

And Chris is too polite.

I had the first bit.

I was like, I'm not fucking eating anymore.

And And there was another two of our head chefs that day, and they were like, we're not doing that.

But Chris, because he felt so polite that someone had taken us to this place, Chris ate all of us.

You can see him repeating.

And then about 20 minutes later, we were in a cab so and we had to stop.

He had hot sweats.

It was just so bad.

It was like the fact watching him chunder on the side of the road after eating stinky fruit for real.

Just out of politeness.

Yeah, out of politeness, yeah.

He's been called stinky fruit, for God's sakes.

Do they call it stinky fruit?

No, I'm sure I might have offended a load of Singaporeans then, but you know,

they call it a guff apple.

As a chef, do you think, like,

when someone offers you anything to eat, even something that smells that bad, you think, well, I've got to try it?

Yeah, yeah, I try everything.

Like, I'm up for trying everything.

Like, because, you know, food is amazing, and you never know what you come across, because it might be fantastic, but, you know, know, also there is some there's some pretty rogue stuff out there.

But I'm quite happy to eat something like fermented shark.

I've had

whale, I've had

these off-herrings that they do in

Sweden, where they've salt these herrings and they leave them until they're rotten, and then they put them in a tin.

And they leave it, and the tin is warped where they've fermented so much that the gas comes out of it.

And you're supposed to open the tin in a bucket of water so that the smell doesn't come out.

And we did it, I've eaten some of that, and we did it.

we did it in a big TV studio, funny enough.

We opened the tin, but not in water.

And the studio was, I mean, it was huge.

Like, everyone had to evacuate.

The smell was so bad.

It was so bad.

So I've tried, I've eaten that.

I've eaten Sentury Egg, you know, the Chinese thing where they're

the black egg that's been cured with horse urine

originally.

It's not anymore.

They use a different type of

acid now.

But I've eaten that as well.

And that's like, I mean, yeah, that's not great neither.

Are they the ones with the

you get ones with the actual like chick still in the middle of it?

Have you seen that?

Oh yeah, I have seen those.

No, I have not eaten that.

That would be maybe a step too far for me.

I think like peeling the egg with the chick still in the middle.

I think that would be...

I don't think I could do that.

On Life in a Day, I saw that.

It's a documentary film.

So YouTube made it.

And they got people from all over the world just to film their life on it.

It's all the same day of the year.

And they all just sent in the footage.

And then YouTube cut it up and made one long film.

But one of the clips is a guy eating that.

And all you see of that guy guy is that he eats that egg.

And I absolutely hate him.

I've never hated someone so much.

I've seen such a small glimpse into his life.

Do you think that is his life, or do you think he was thinking, I want to make the edit here?

Yeah, probably showing off a bit.

No, he was really proud.

He was showboating it a bit because he was like, first we peeled this and then the salt.

And he's like, and then he puts his finger in the air, like he's testing the wind and goes.

So everything can start.

And then he puts it in his mouth.

Absolutely gross.

Does he eat it all in one?

Yeah, all in one.

He goes.

He pops it in in one.

I think you've got to go all in one with that, to be honest.

Yeah.

I wouldn't want to see the inside of it.

No.

I won't want to bite it in half and then be like, no, no.

You lose your appetite halfway through.

You've got to go for it, yeah.

Like I'm a celebrity.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But that's not your side dish.

Let's not get side dishes.

No, no.

The aubergine is the same dish.

You know, the aubergine is the side dish, but now I'm thinking, you know, I'm up for trying everything.

Maybe a half-baked

unborn chick from an egg.

You know, I mean, it might go with fish and chips better than Obiji.

Who knows?

Yeah,

you haven't tried it yet?

Yeah, it's like the ultimate pickled egg to have with fish and chips, right?

Yeah, exactly.

And I've got curry sauce, mushy peas, and gravy to take the taste away if I don't like it.

Cover it up.

Right.

Yeah, it's no problem.

That guy might have been teeing himself up for some fish and chips in life in a day.

I don't know.

YouTube man.

Might have just ate that little chick and then

they cut it.

At that point, but he might have just gone around the corner to a chippy.

Yeah, very true.

I used to live on the corner from a chip shop.

And it it backed onto my garden so when we were out playing football in the back garden we could always smell the fish and chips it drove us crazy

uh i set up a i had a stand-up gig in durham uh set it up ourselves and uh it was above a fish and chip shop it was a nightclub above a fish and chip shop called fish tank uh and it was only seated about 30 people but it just stunk of chip oil i love that Where was that up north?

Yeah, in Durham, yeah.

So was that beef fat chip oil or was that veggie?

Oh, that would have been that would have been beef fat chip oil, I'd imagine.

That's what you got the audience to shout with the kids.

Yeah.

Buffer.

When you were

getting the crowd warmed up.

That was also my nickname back then.

Yeah.

Fat shaving.

Hence why we both went on dieting our six stones.

Yeah.

And now everyone calls him beef sexy.

Sexy beef boy.

Sexy beef.

Sexy beef boy.

The sexy beef boy.

Shout out to that chip shop, actually, that I live, because that's still my favourite fish and chips in the whole of the world, is Nick's Fish and Chip Shop in Kettering.

It's still there.

Yeah, still there.

Also, the guy there called Dustin used to work there, who my dad used to teach when back in the day.

And then I remember once we were walking past the fish and chip shop, and we looked in, and Dustin was sitting there eating some chips.

And my dad went, Dustin stuffing his face with some chips.

And I laughed for so long

that he said, Dustin, and I still think of it.

It still makes me want to laugh now.

Dustin's stuffing his face with some chips.

Dustin's stuffing his face with some chips still makes me laugh.

There we go

To drink, sir.

Well, also, he's probably going to be half and half again.

Half coke zero, half diet coke?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Half wine, half beer.

Well, no, well, it's very difficult this because I'm trying to work out.

So I knocked booze on the head six about nearly six years ago, right?

So I've become

quite a huge part of my life, is the best way of describing it.

So I'm like, if this is a one-off thing, like, and it's just one-off, and it'll never affect my brain cells again, and it won't take me.

I might go for 24 cans of Stella.

I might go for 24 cans of Stella.

Alternatively,

I'd absolutely love that.

Why are you trying to skip over that?

Yeah, alternatively,

a can of diet lilt.

I love diet lilt with fish and chips, you know, can of lilt.

I haven't seen it in a well, I have had it actually.

That's what I was going to say.

I haven't seen it in ages.

I had some yesterday, so exactly.

But it's one of the so you know, it's it's it depends on how bad we've been.

I mean, I've gone for fish and chips.

If I'm going, if I'm going all in and it's one day only and it's not going to take me down the route that I went down,

maybe a whole slab of Stella.

Yeah.

That would, yeah, that would be a good thing.

Why Stella?

Of all of the beers?

Well, I think when you have an issue with alcohol, you look for the ones that hit the spot quicker.

Right.

Stella.

Stella was just

straight there.

Yeah.

Specifically 24 cans of it.

Yeah, well, like, you load up with 24 and then you see where the evening goes.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that's such a pretty.

I think the fact that

24 cans of Stella probably shows that you're right to knock it on the head, Tom.

That's your go-to.

Do you want them as separate cans?

Or, because I can do whatever you want here, I can do it as one big guzzler can for you that's like 24 cans

with a little straw maybe.

Well, actually, well, if we're going for it and we're in a restaurant and it's like, I wouldn't mind one of those like really comedy hats that have cans in that you can sit in.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

And then a straw.

Do you want one of those that can fit 24 cans?

Yeah, 12 each side would be

Statson.

Yeah, that would be great.

Yeah, I'm up for that.

Yeah, that would be great.

Can you arrange that, Mr.

Ginny?

I'll sort that out for you.

There we are.

No worries.

One Stetson beardome coming right up.

24 cans of Stella.

Yeah.

Oh, Lilt's good, don't you?

Did they still only do one flavour of Lilt?

Because for a while they did another one and it was.

They did, didn't they?

They did another one that was

a little bit more.

Yeah, mango y apricoty.

It was mango.

It was too tropical for me, I think.

Yeah.

Yeah, a bit too tropical and mango.

And Lilt's already totally tropical.

It is totally tropical.

Yeah.

What is it?

Punaffin grapefruit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, I want one now.

Also, and you know what?

If you've got the hat, and as it's you, you're allowed the hat with 24 cans of stella, and then at the top of the hat, there's a Lilt as well with a separate straw.

I love that.

I love that.

Yeah, that's great.

Does that, that make, that probably makes the worst shandy.

Yeah.

Lilt and Stella.

I'd like a Stella Lilt top, please.

Oh, God.

Diet Lilt.

Does Diet Lilt now...

Well, that's because I've gone, you know, because if I was going really good, I'd go low sugar.

So I'd go low sugar.

In like real world now, it would be diet lilt.

Yes.

No sugar.

But

if we're going in...

There's a dream restaurant.

There's a dream restaurant and the chaos and mayhem, the part of drinking that I loved.

The bits that you go, yeah, this is great.

Yeah.

That I would, I would go with Estella.

But then I, see, a diet.

So I stopped drinking.

cola or brands of cola uh like five years ago about five oh maybe a bit longer than that and just didn't drink anything like that for ages and then started drinking Diet Coke again about a year ago.

And now this is the most boring thing I

say this to people all the time.

It's the most boring thing I say to anyone.

It just tastes like normal coke.

That's pretty boring.

Because I haven't had full fat Coke in so many years.

And I didn't even drink Diet Coke at that time.

So then when I went back to Diet Coke,

I was like, this tastes like a a normal Coca-Cola.

And you established it was boring and you said it, and we all agreed with our eyes that it was boring.

And then you thought, I'm going to explain it again.

Here's the thing, even though I know it's boring, I still love telling people about it

because

genuinely, I feel like it's my biggest life hack.

Yeah.

Stop drinking all color products for five years.

Five years.

Yeah, what a life hack.

And then go in again, but just the diet range.

And then everything will taste like it did before.

So it's like you're having having a naughty drink, but you're not.

Now we come to the dessert.

Speaking of being naughty, this is where most people can be quite naughty.

Yes.

And I think, I mean, you've been pretty naughty so far.

Yeah.

I have, yeah, so I'm going full on for, I'm going to go for a Knickerbocker glory from the Bernie Inns circa 1982.

That's a trouble for a time.

That's like the dream.

Bernie Inns, I don't know Bernie Inns, I'm not familiar.

You're not old enough.

That'd be why.

yeah so burning inns were like the first kind of um not gastro pubs but they were like a they were a

i suppose a a a brand a themed pub that was a bit like beefe eaters it was just like that before them and they used to do like half a roast chicken with fries and peas that had been left under the hot lamps for ages so they were like all little dried up things

and they would do it would have like um doughnuts as a dessert and it was one of those places that used to used to have you have to have fruit juice as a starter that was on the starter yeah like richard osmond talked about this yeah so there you go so it's back to that that sort of era but they used to do knickerbocker glories i think these great big tall glasses and there's like a 1982 i'd have been like nine yeah so like as a chubby nine-year-old you're like this is the dream yeah like like with chocolate sauce and strawberry sauce and like everything about it there was probably no real ice cream in it it's all that synthetic so it was just like i mean yeah amaz like amazing places they were they were the first part they were the first gastro pubs, Bernie Inns.

Bernie Inns.

When you mined that then, the Knickerbocker Glory, you did it from a child's perspective, because I doubt they were as big as you showed us.

Yeah, I'm thinking, yeah, my speaker.

What's that the size of them just saying?

What's that?

I mean, that's like two foot.

That's a small cabinet.

Yeah.

You just mind that.

I remember when I was like, it's nine, looking up at it with, oh, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

That's my memory of my first banana split.

was that it was the size of an actual boat

that I had and it was like humongous and uh and it was still the best banana split I've ever had.

I remember it was a meal that we went for.

I don't know where it was, but my cousins were there.

I remember that.

And we all all do these banana splits.

They're massive.

One of the scoops of ice cream in there was pistachio, which at that age I definitely didn't like.

Yeah.

But I ate the whole thing.

Everyone was really impressed I ate the whole thing and then I went around polishing off other people's ones.

That's how much I love that banana split.

It's your finest moment.

And since then...

Well, basically I haven't had a banana split for years and now I'm going to go and diet banana splits or tastes exactly the same.

No.

Just bananas, yeah.

Just bananas.

That's a diet.

Diet bananas, but it's just a banana.

Just a banana.

Little lip hack.

Cut a banana in half, ain't that?

Little sneaky.

So take us through layer by layer in the Knickerbocker Glory.

You've got to have like crunchy, crispy bits at the bottom, and that's the bit that you always want to get to.

So you have special spoons, don't you?

Like you have special knickerbockers.

Yeah, and that's the bit you want to get to.

So it's trying to get to the crunchy bits at the bottom whilst not getting your knuckles covered in the top of the cream and

the like bright luminous red kind of clear strawberry sauce.

So you've got different layers of ice cream, different layers of crunch texture.

I mean, it's just layer upon layer of cream, ice cream, sauce, broken biscuits, basically.

So is that the crunch, broken biscuits?

Broken biscuits.

I imagine it was broken biscuits.

I mean, you know, it's not.

You can ask for what you want.

You can broken biscuits.

What kind of biscuits do I want me to break up in this Nuka Boca Glory?

Well, I don't know.

I mean, I'm partial to a hobnob.

Quite like a hobnob.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're quite good.

It's a crunchy biscuit as well.

It is a crunchy biscuit, and it's got that lovely little salty kind of autet thing to it.

And

that's the thing that takes biscuits to an ex level, pinch of salt.

Oh, yeah, salty biscuits.

I'm a big fan of salt and sweet.

You know that.

Yeah.

Don't know why I'm telling you.

Should be telling Tom.

He's the one who doesn't know.

Everyone loves salt and caramel, don't they?

Yeah, well, you think some people don't.

And those people, who doesn't like salty?

They really get to me when they say they don't like it.

Yeah.

I've met a few people who say they don't like it.

They really make a point of it as well, like they're better than me.

Very annoying.

Talk to us about the flavours of ice cream.

What's going into it?

Well, you've got to have vanilla, right?

But we've got to a point.

So, where we cook now, vanilla ice cream tastes of vanilla and not too sugary.

But in those days, vanilla ice cream didn't taste of vanilla, it tasted of sugar.

So you just go.

So it's got to have just have this white, like white, sweet, cold ice cream.

You've got to have chocolate in there.

Chocolate ice cream would be amazing.

Got to have strawberry in there.

Uh, pistachio would be quite nice, but that's a little bit, I think that's a little bit too left field for a proper 1982 knickerbocker.

No, I think, I think you've got to have chocolate, vanilla, strawberry.

But the thing is, when I remember and look back at it, I don't think any of them tasted of chocolate, vanilla, and strawberry.

I think they're just all just different colours of the same ice cream.

Just cold, yeah, cold, sweet.

But I'll go for that.

Yeah, you know, we've gone for it.

I mean, I've drunk 24 cans of cellar by by now.

I don't remember.

I mean, you're not remembering this course, are you?

Yeah.

So maybe that's what I had in Singapore.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You could have a pickup and more.

Cherry on top.

Oh, definitely.

Yeah, glass Hero.

And do you know what?

Let's put sparklers in it.

So let's have sparklers going on the top as well.

Yeah, first bites with the eye.

Yeah.

I was saying I picked up in the chef industry.

Tom.

I used to work in the kitchen, Mr.

Sage.

I'm not writing that one.

First bites with the eye.

It's not literal.

I don't want you getting mistaken there, Tom.

It means it has to look good, okay?

The cover of your next book is just you with loads of mashed potato in your eyes.

I worked at,

well,

now I'm thinking if I should mention the establishments, because I've definitely mentioned one of them in a negative light in the past, and not named it for legal reasons.

But I worked at the

and I worked at the Star in Geddington.

So the Star was like a family-run place,

very nice little village pub,

all home-cooked stuff.

And the

was part of a chain of, you know, it had a soft play area in it.

Does that give you a good idea of what kind of a place it is?

I love that place.

I love that.

Other places have got soft play areas, no, but I'm thinking it might be a way forward.

You know, like, why not?

Let's have them.

Have a Michigan Star restaurant with a soft play area in it.

I think that's a great idea.

And were you the mash king at both places?

No, I was mash king king at the village pub.

Right.

We weren't making mash at

the other one.

I mean, maybe people were making mash there, but I can't remember people doing it.

I was mainly putting stuff in microwaves.

And I did do desserts there, actually.

I did make the Sundays there.

That was quite a...

I enjoyed that.

Once we had this gingerbread ice cream, which was like, I loved it.

And we didn't have it for very long.

It was like a limited Sunday.

It was this gingerbread Sunday.

It was gingerbread and chocolate ice cream.

And

on the last day of that they would say this is the last day we're doing the gingerbread Sundays now and there was like one tub left and I was like said to my friend Graeme whatever's left in that tub at the end of the day I'm eating it it was a full tub I was like so I really was hoping all day that people didn't order the gingerbread Sunday

probably about two people did the rest of it is still in there and because I was so honest at that point I was like I should probably buy it off of them I can't just eat it before they throw it so I went to the manager and said can I buy this off you?

It was a little tub.

He went, yeah, I'll just work it out.

And he basically worked out how many scoops were in there roughly, how many Sundays they would have sold for that amount of money and charged me for that many Sundays.

So I paid about 40 quid

for a tub of ice cream and sat there eating it before it melts.

So I was like, it'll melt by the time I get home.

I can see this is where the floor in your chefing career went.

Every chef that I know, the best, they steal everything.

They rob the whole.

They'd have eaten the ice cream fruit server.

They'd have eaten it before the customers have ordered it.

They'd go, it's the last one.

Anyway, I'm eating it.

And the check came on and said, I have a gingerbread setting.

They've gone, nah, nah.

All gone.

All gone.

Very popular.

It wasn't your cooking ability that let you down.

No, it was your ability to rob stuff.

That's what it's doing.

It's too honest to be a chef.

Yeah, mate.

Really regret doing it.

But such good ice cream.

Oh, my God.

And we were talking about the gingerbread spice ice cream that came out at Christmas, the Ben and Jerry's one.

Yeah.

Off.

I mean, you probably didn't have that because you're a good boy now.

But like,

holy mackerel.

Good?

Yes.

Holy mackerel was a more disappointing Benedictine flavour.

They got too experimental.

Yeah.

Pull in stinky fruit.

Flavour of ice cream.

Did not go well.

I think that's a great meal.

Yes.

I'll just read it back to you, Tom, so we make sure we've got it right.

Water, you would like half and half?

Well, not like, but I'll go with it.

Yeah.

I'm just happy whatever.

Whatever's easiest.

Whatever's easiest.

Whatever's easiest.

I'll tell you what's going to happen every time I come over.

I'm going to pour both in at once.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So it's actually, I'm doing the most hard thing, and that'll really annoy you.

You want bread?

You want a proper, warm, crispy, crunchy baguette soft on the other side with loads of freshly made butter.

Do we specifically want the bread from Franson?

Do you just want that bread for it sounds like you should have the bread from that restaurant?

I'd like the bread from Fransen, please, which is a three mesh in-star restaurant in Stockholm.

Yeah, you can have the bread like that.

The Franson bread.

You would like calamari and mayo for your starter, maybe the one that you had in Greece.

Yeah, definitely, but not the reformed one, like

proper fresh squid.

Proper red, yeah.

Fish and chips as your main.

You didn't specify a place for the fish and chips.

No, because I think you can have it anyway.

You can have it like in posh restaurants, or you can have it.

Let's have it on a beach sat on the North Kent coast.

But you wanted everything on there, didn't you?

Everything from all over the country on there.

Yeah.

Gravy, mushy peas, and curry sauce.

Rat ali aubergine?

Yeah, a bit of rat ali aubergine, that's it.

Yeah, yeah.

Definitely.

Drink, you would like Stetson Beer Dome with 24 cans of Stella in a diet lint with a step at straw.

Yes, please.

You deserve Drink a Buck of Glory from Bernie's Inn, soca 1982.

Great meal.

That's perfect.

Yeah.

Delicious meal.

Thank you very much, Tom.

Thank you very much.

Thank you so much, Tom.

Tom Carriage.

What a meal.

What a meal.

What a guy.

What a guy.

Always, I think it's when we have someone that we don't know on or that we haven't met before, we're always a bit more like, okay, we need to make sure this goes well because we're going to look at like a couple of punks in front of someone we don't know.

And you know what?

He was such a lovely, relaxed man.

I think it all went fine.

We felt at ease immediately.

Yeah.

What a meal as well.

I didn't expect it.

No?

Didn't expect...

I mean...

I guess, you know, you kind of think people who are mission star chefs, maybe they just like, you know, they just crave crave fish and chips, sure.

Yeah, but you know, I didn't expect it.

Nice.

I liked it.

It's good.

Good stories as well.

Yeah, great stories.

And he didn't mention quinoa.

He didn't, that's the crucial thing.

He did not mention quinoa.

I was, I thought he might mention quinoa because there is a recipe that looks very delicious

that has quinoa in it in his new book, Tom Carriage's Fresh Start.

Yes, that is true.

There's a lot of great recipes in there.

Do we have a flick-through earlier?

We're having a little flick-through.

It's accessible stuff that you can cook at home that looks fresh, healthy, and impressive.

Yeah.

Well done, Tom.

Good book.

You can put that on the cover of the next one.

Well done, Tom.

Good book.

James A.

Caster.

Yeah, Genie.

Genie wearing on socks.

Thank you very much for listening.

As always, like, subscribe, review.

All of that stuff.

Follow us on social media, Artoff Menu Official.

And just keep, but we've been, I'll be honest, James, James.

I've been quite overwhelmed by the response to the podcast so far.

It's been lovely.

Please keep on harassing Joel Dommit, all the listeners.

Please keep on trolling him and having a go at him for his meal.

We're really enjoying seeing that.

Hey, guys, I'm on tour.

Ed is on tour during the show Blizzard, aren't you?

I am, mate.

Yeah.

Starts at the end of January.

Starts at the end of January.

All through the months of 2019.

Come and give it a watch.

Lovely stuff, Ed.

It's a funny old show, guys.

feel free uh to approach me if you see me and ask me pop a doms or bread yes uh what am i doing on tour also

uh and uh i'm looking forward to mine more than james by the sounds of it no i'm looking forward to it sure and the episode of pointless that i mentioned in the episode that would have gone out by the time yeah this podcast is out so both find that an iPlayer yeah watch that see how me and Joel do but you know you've heard Joel's off menu I'm teamed with an absolute pig shit

So, how am I meant to do?

Bad luck, Joel.

It's not even your episode anymore.

You're getting called a pig shit.

Yeah, deservingly so, Joel.

I had to

throw myself down on the line with you and say, dark chocolate in a spag bowl.

And it was in his chili.

That is the biggest sting.

The fact that he does actually put it in one of his dishes and it's in his chili.

So close that he would have done it to plump up the beef as well.

That is so annoying.

Well, guys, thank you for listening to another wonderful episode.

Uh, we'll see you next week.

Goodbye.

Goodbye.

Bye, Nepet.

Oh, I didn't get to say what I wanted to say.

I wanted to embarrass Ed at one point.

Me and Ed were playing a game once with some friends.

Oh, yeah, this is true, actually.

This is good fun.

We're playing a game.

It's quite a complicated game to try and describe actually.

But the game was basically you've got an island, you've got your own island.

And it was just like, first of all, it's like you're allowed five animals on the island.

We were to choose what five animals we would have on our island.

And then it was you have like

five films you can watch on the island and like dishes and all stuff.

And one time it was five celebrities you can have on your island and we were to choose.

And Ed chose Tom Kerrich.

You were in as five people he would have on the island because you wanted someone to cook for him.

And it seems like you'd be a laugh on an island.

Yeah, no, I'd be well up for that.

Right.

Yeah, I'm

yeah.

When are we going?

We can go right now.

I love that.

Honestly, I'm honoured.

That's made me feel warm inside.

Well, do you want to hear what company you're in?

Oh, yeah.

You were my first choice, and then I panicked.

He got us to such a flyer, and then watch this.

Get ready to go rapidly descend downhill with your company.

You're probably sharing a little, a little

building with me.

I'm trying to remember.

Sandy from Gogglebox.

Sandra from Gogglebox, yeah.

Do you see it's like a proper laugh?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, so she's coming.

That's good.

Good fun.

Good fun.

Snoop Dogg.

Snoop Dogg?

Yeah.

Snoop Dogg's got a cookbook.

Has he?

Yeah, we could be cooking hip-hop food from Snoop Dogg's cookbook.

This is, I think, this is so funny.

All right, it's actually working out pretty well.

Yeah, this is cool.

Cue rappers have cookbooks.

Mirio's got Miriam Margolis.

Did I have Miriam Margolis?

You might have had Miriam Margolis.

I think so, so right.

Right, right, Rose Gallery of People, you got hanging out.

I did panic a little bit.

But you're very welcome on the island.

Thank you.

I quite happily light fires and cook stuff all day long.

Someone's got to catch it, though.

Hopefully we all get on well.

It doesn't end with you desperately trying to build a raft out of empty stellar cans.

We get it.

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Hello, I'm Carrie Add.

I'm Sarah.

And we are the Weirdos Book Club Podcast.

We are doing a very special live show as part of the London Podcast Festival.

The date is Thursday, 11th of September, the time is 7 p.m., and our special guest is the brilliant Alan Davies.

Tickets from kingsplace.co.uk.

Single ladies is coming to London.

True on Saturday, the 13th of September.

At the London Podcast Festival.

The rumours are true.

Saturday, the 13th of September.

At King's Place.

Oh, that sounds like a date to me, Harriet.