Ep. #448: Richard Haass, Anthony Scaramucci

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Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO Late Month series, Real Time with Bill Ma.

Start the clock.

All right.

Thank you very much.

Hey!

Okay.

Thank you, folks.

Thank you very much.

Wow, this is

a holiday.

I know why, no, I know why, I know.

I get the excitement because it's a holiday crowd.

It's Groundhog Day.

But it is, it's Groundhog Day.

And, you know, this year, because the Groundhog is brown and it gets pulled from its home, ice is involved.

So

But forget Groundhog Day, the only large rat-like creature I'm concerned about is Devin Nunes.

This guy,

and his memo got released today, and of course it's not fair to single him out.

All the Republicans these days are treasonous rats.

And

they're all together.

They're on a retreat in West Virginia.

And the people of that town are onto them because the banner said, welcome banana Republicans.

Which is what we're turning into.

I mean,

this slow-moving coup that I've been talking about since before the election,

you know, kind of picked up speed this week.

Trump declassified this Nunes memo, which is supposed to make us think that our own top law enforcement people are crooked, so Trump can get away with his Russia crimes.

Problem is, the Republicans talk about this memo, you know, like it's some smoking gun piece of evidence that they uncovered.

No, they wrote it.

They uncovered it in their printer.

It's not an intelligence document.

It's a Facebook post that you'd briefly skim before before a clicking unfriend.

But, you know,

the Republican, they did not like what the FBI was finding out about Trump.

So like the true patriots they are of Russia.

They attacked the FBI and the Justice Department because they're biased.

Yes, because they're in law enforcement and the Trump crime family commits crimes.

So that's what they're supposed to do.

It's like saying the exterminator is biased against the termites.

Paced myself.

I know I get pissed off too early.

Right?

But don't you, I mean, this Republican delusion that Robert Mueller, a Republican who's there because of Trump, is conspiring with Rod Rosenstein, the acting attorney general, a Republican who's there because of Trump, and of course, Mueller's old buddy, Jim Comey, another Republican appointed by Trump.

And Trump's attitude is, geez,

what a bunch of idiots.

Who put them in charge?

But okay, smearing the FBI and the Justice Department is not the only thing that fat Nixon was up to this week.

It was also State of the Union time here in America.

The address was delivered by Trump's alter ego, teleprompter Trump.

I'm not going to say the President of the United States can't read,

But it's obvious he doesn't get a lot of practice at it.

Not great at the teleprompter.

First of all, during rehearsals, he kept referring to it as Surrey.

And he read it so

slow.

He looked like a guy taking an eye exam.

At one point, Stormy Daniels pretended to come just to make him stop.

But did you watch this speech?

He mentioned all the floods, you know, the wildfires, the storms we've had.

Never once linked them to climate change.

Yes, probably the work of the deep state, wouldn't you imagine?

And he dragged, of course, about, you know, the biggest tax cuts in history.

No.

Like the eighth biggest.

For finally seeing wages going up.

They've been going up for years.

Car companies are building again and expanding.

No, that's been going on for years.

Where's the guy at the State of the Union who yells, you lie when you need him?

And

as with all State of the Unions, you know, it was the gallery.

You know, they have the people up in the gallery, what they call the stunt casting.

They do.

They have the people who tug at your heartstrings, and there were.

I mean, there were parents of victims of the MS-13 crime gang, and there was a blind double amputee Marine and then there was one that

I must say really got to me.

There was a woman in the gallery who has been forced to be married to Donald Trump for 13 years.

And oh

did you see Melania?

She was all decked out, all white outfit from Dior, Dolce and Gabbana blouse, Louboutin heels, and a shock collar in case she made a run for it.

And if you have any doubts that Melania is very pissed and humiliated by the Stormy Daniels thing, she broke all precedent, did not travel to the speech, to the Capitol with the president.

She came separately, as usual.

Anyway, we have a great show.

Donna Brazil and David Trum are here.

And a little later, we'll be speaking with former White House Communications Director Ethan Scaramucci.

The mooch is here, ladies and gentlemen.

the mooch

but first up he's the president of the Council on Foreign Relations I never believe he's doing our show but he is whose latest book a world in disarray is now on paperback please welcome Richard Haas

there he is

okay great to see you

Richard

Great to have you here your annual yes every year you have to kind of catch us up on what's going on in the world

I just want to know first of all what does the world think when they see,

you know, they know what's going on in America, they read the papers, and they see a president who's at war with his own law enforcement agencies.

What does that say to that?

What are they saying in those foreign capitals?

Well, U.S.

standing has plummeted in most of the capitals.

It's probably worse in Europe and Latin America.

You mentioned climate change, that's the reason.

They see what's going on.

President attacking the courts, attacking the media, doesn't play well in places like Europe where democracy is is robust i think in the president's popular in say saudi arabia israel and places like china and russia they are baffled i should have a nickel for every time people from those countries say uh what do we make of this guy and how should we you know how do we read what's going on in the united states well but they have kind of caught on that you flatter them right i mean didn't isn't wasn't that the trick that the chinese used and the saudi arabians they put his face on a building i mean it's not that hard to figure it out uh yeah the president cares too much about personal relationships and cares too much about how he's treated.

So I mean you say democracy is robust in Europe, not all of Europe.

Poland is tinging.

Eastern Europe, Hungary.

You know, I read this term, you know, populist leaders

say the same thing about Trump as if it's

you could you could say this, as if it means authoritarianism.

And it doesn't, does it?

I mean, a populist leader, Trump is not a populist leader.

He's a wannabe dictator.

But he is populist in the sense that he's tapping into economic insecurity.

Okay, what's the difference

between a populist and an authoritarian?

I think populist leaders are really good at reading the people.

And they sense their insecurity, whether it's over immigration, say, in Europe or over economics.

And what they do is they often then are willing to almost make a deal with the people.

We'll take care of your insecurities, but you're going to lose a little bit of your freedom.

I think in places like Russia or China, there's no deal with the people.

They've just decided they are going to be strong men, top-down.

They are not going to allow any sort of openness to,

they don't want the virus of freedom to break out.

I mean, I see places like the Philippines and Turkey,

which we thought, you know, went into our column.

I don't know what our column is anymore, actually.

But the old view of our column, Western democracy, rule of law, and now they're not, which shows you can go back and forth, and that could happen here, too.

I mean, Trump definitely does not understand what this country was founded on.

Because when you see him say things like we've had three examples of him saying to Comey, he said, I need loyalty.

And he meant personal loyalty.

Are you on my team?

He said to Rosenstein, to McCabe, who did you vote for?

This is not someone who understands how this country works.

He was born in the wrong age.

He should have been a king.

That's what he could have been.

He's Henry VIII.

Fat.

A lot of wives, lot of beheading, right?

You know, what makes a democracy a democracy is you have the distribution of political power, checks and balances and all that.

I think that's foreign to someone like Donald Trump who comes into politics, not from politics, but from business, a family office, where you control things.

What makes a democracy, like our DNA, is no one person, no one institution controls things.

And I think he's having difficulty with that.

And do you see any good he's done overseas?

I mean, is it all bad?

That's not all bad.

A couple of things I'd mentioned.

We've made progress against ISIS, clearly in Iraq and Syria.

I think that's been good.

Well, that was going on before he

saw it.

But he continued the same

strategy and took credit.

Greater sanctions.

Fair enough.

Greater sanctions against North Korea.

I think they're going to get the Chinese and the Russians again.

Yeah, they're doing the Olympics together.

We get such mixed signals.

One minute, the bomb is overhead.

And I'm kissing my ass goodbye.

And then I'm reading that they're going to be doing the Olympics.

The two are not mutually exclusive in the sense that a North-South dialogue in Korea is a different agenda than our agenda, which is to really focus on the North Korean nuclear and missile arsenal.

It's one of the reasons that this conversation is not one that necessarily should fill us with real comfort.

Well, what about something like Pakistan?

Now, for years, I've heard people

in both parties say, Pakistan is double-dealing us.

They're not really our ally.

Why are we giving them all this aid?

They're really in league with the Taliban.

All true.

And Trump now called them on it and he's not giving them aid.

Either way we get screwed.

Look, Pakistan has the world's fastest growing nuclear arsenal.

It's got the world's greatest collection of terrorists.

When we give them aid, they do things we don't like.

They give sanctuary to the Taliban who are killing Americans.

When we don't give them aid, they do things we don't like.

Either way,

it's probably the single biggest problem for American foreign policy.

We spend all this time talking about North Korea or Iran.

I actually worry as much about Pakistan as any country.

What about moving the capital to Jerusalem and Israel?

We talked about that on the show last week.

My enthusiasm for that was limited.

Don't get me wrong,

I understand.

Well, you are a diplomat.

There are not a lot of them anymore either.

Yeah, I guess so.

But the,

look, the reason is I want, in 50 years or 100 years, I want Israel to be a secure, prosperous, democratic Jewish country.

It's that now.

I want to keep it that way.

Oh, yeah, I believe it.

But in order to do that, I actually think Israel needs a Palestinian state, not as a favor to the Palestinians,

as a favor to itself.

So when I see unilateral moves like this, I worry this makes an almost impossible situation even more difficult.

What about a country like Saudi Arabia?

Germany took in a million Syrian refugees, and as far as I know, Saudi Arabia didn't take in any or very, very few.

How does that make sense?

Why did they get a pass on that?

That's my thing with Israel.

It's like it seems like they play by a different standard.

It seems like if a country like Saudi Arabia, which is rich and closer to Syria, and they have a lot more in common than the Syrians have in Germany, it would behoove them to take in their brethren.

It would.

The Saudi policy was more obviously to try to shape the civil war in Syria.

It didn't work out so well.

But you make a decent point.

The United States, historically, not now, has been one of the great recipients of refugees and obviously immigrants.

Israel has, it's part of Israel's DNA.

But there's double standards, there's triple standards out there.

Okay, finally, we're going to get attacked again in the election we have this year by Russia, our electoral process.

That's for sure.

Even Pompeo, the CIA director, who's a Trump ally, admits that.

The president is a wall on this, first president ever not to defend the country during a time of attack, really, when you think about it.

Can the U.S., do you think, defend itself without the president leading it?

Well, something like elections, you know, up to really every state, city, you know, voting machines.

In a funny sort of way, we don't really want to be as networked as we often are.

We can also push back against the Russians.

I don't understand why we've unilaterally disarmed.

Why aren't we publishing things, say, about Putin's finances?

You've got people rioting in the streets of Moscow.

They just arrested political opponents who can't run against Putin.

Why is the White House spokesperson not every day saying, hey,

what are you worried about, Mr.

Putin?

What are you afraid of?

Why aren't we going after them?

Why are we only playing defense and not a very good job of defense with the Russians?

And why aren't we playing offense against them?

So, yeah, you ought to be worried about that.

Richard, I hope we're here in a year so I can talk to you again.

But I wouldn't bet on it.

Richard Haas, thank you very much, as always, for enlightening us.

Okay, let's beat our panel.

Okay.

Hi.

You know what I am?

I know you're going to call me that.

Okay.

Please welcome.

He is a senior editor at The Atlantic and author of Trumpocracy, The Corruption of the American Republic, David Frum.

And

she is the former chairwoman of the Democratic National Committee and the author of Hacks, The Inside Story of the Break-Ins and Breakdowns That Put Donald Trump in the White House.

Donna Brazil.

Yeah, dude.

Looking ever younger since you're out of politics.

Happy Black History Month.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

You're looking so black today.

What's going on with you?

What's going on?

You got your curl on?

You know, whatever I say, I'll get in trouble.

Look.

Okay.

Join the party.

Yeah, okay.

So,

you know, I'm of two minds.

minds.

There is people out there watching right now who are saying, what is this Devin Nuna's memo?

Who's Carter Page?

What's the Steele memo?

We do a show that has a broad audience.

I want to explain it all to them.

It's a little in the weeds.

And I don't want to

also, you know, bore the people who know what this stuff is.

Let me just start with this and maybe we'll get into the weeds.

The fact that they are fighting this on this level at this stage of the game with this memo tells me that they're very worried, that they must know that Bob Mueller has a lot.

And of course, I would say he does.

This is Donald Trump.

Think about Donald Trump.

It's always worse than you could have imagined.

Absolutely.

And you imagine the worst.

Right, right, right.

Right?

When you look at this memo, what you see is this really is the C-team.

I mean, America, I think, is entitled at this point to expect high-quality, artisanal obstruction of justice.

That's true.

It is getting this kind of mass-produced junk.

Maybe, I mean, if they could just get like a higher quality of obstructor,

I think we could have a higher quality of discussion.

Okay.

Bill, I asked your staff to print it out because I thought maybe something was wrong with my internet.

This is all bullshit.

Is this the memo itself that you have here?

Bill, don't read this.

Get a People magazine.

Get Style.

In fact, get Ebony and go to the bathroom.

This will leave you...

I've been in the bathroom with Ebony, but go ahead.

Well,

if you go with Imani, I'll be worried.

Look, this is weaponization of classified information.

It stinks.

That's all you need to know.

Okay, so let's get into the weeds a little.

There's around the summer of 2016, the campaign was well underway, but not over.

There were two investigations basically going on at the same time that didn't know they were starting.

There was the FBI investigation when Comey was still there.

That's right.

Christopher Steele is a British spy.

Mm-hmm.

who was also looking into Trump's relations with Russia.

They were looking into the same thing.

The reason Christopher Steele was doing it is because when someone runs for president, as Trump was doing,

opposition research starts.

That's correct.

The people who first hired Christopher Steele were Republicans.

Correct.

Then Hillary's people took it over after the Republicans were out.

That is what.

It's a business.

Correct.

And Christopher Steele, very reliable British spy, that was his turf.

Correct.

Russia.

Okay.

So because his,

at some point, Christopher Steele calls his friends at the FBI, because law enforcement across the pond, they know each other, they work together.

That's right.

We're allies.

And he says, listen, I've been looking into this.

You got a problem on your hands.

Donald Trump is crooked, and Russia is trying to steal your election.

So this memo was trying to say that because that was involved in the FBI investigation, it's tainted.

This memo,

the FISA investigation was opened more than two weeks after the second WikiLeaks dump, in which Russia dumped into the American election a lot of weaponized stolen emails welcomed by Donald Trump after the Trump campaign attempted to coordinate with WikiLeaks in the use of this information.

The idea that it took some one piece of paper to pursue, I mean, everyone who cared about Russian involvement in the affairs of Western democracy in the United States was screaming about this from the time at least of the Republican Convention when the Republican platform was altered, rewritten in order in a pro-Russia direction, and really from months before that.

Donald Trump's connections with Russia have been known for years.

This was from the very get-go something that people were concerned by.

And so what is happening here is I don't think this memo is an attempt actually, this brochure, this, as you called it, a Facebook post,

is an attempt actually to win an argument.

It's not trying to convince anybody.

What it is, it's a stone thrown in the pond to create a splash, to get ready for

something bad that is happening very soon.

President Trump has gone to Mar-a-Lago again this weekend.

It's Shabbat, so he's unpoliced by Ivanka.

Right?

And he, however ludicrous everybody...

Everybody, including many of the Republicans in Congress themselves, find this document, it has revved up the president, according to all reports.

He is getting ready to do something.

And he is an instinctive actor.

And the thing he understands above all, as he's demonstrated with his campaign, is that his will to power is stronger than that of anyone who's trying to check him.

And the system is breaking.

It doesn't have to be credible.

It just has to be forceful.

And it's forceful enough to drag the Republicans after him and to launch the attack on justice that seems to be coming.

And that's what we need to talk about.

I mean, there is a fine line between being an enemy of the deep state and just an enemy of the state.

And it

no question.

No question.

I never thought I'd be at the point where I'd be saying these things about Republicans.

I never thought I would be defending the FBI in the 21st century.

I mean, these are 37,000 employees doing their job, and President Trump is going after them.

Oh, I see what you're saying.

Tweet by tweet by tweet by tweet.

He's undermining their effectiveness.

Remember, the FBI is not only there to protect us against criminals here in the United States, but also terrorists.

He's weakening them at a time in which we need our federal agencies.

The NBC is a standard.

I was saying in the the monologue, Mueller a Republican, Comey a Republican, Rosenstein a Republican, 80% of this FISA court Republicans, and law enforcement itself.

Since when have they been a hotbed of liberals?

The reason I was slow-moving coup back before the election is because the FBI back then was Trump Landia.

Remember?

Right.

Comey was the one who threw the election to Hillary.

11 days out.

So

the FBI agent against whom the president is tweeting the most vociferously was the FBI agent who the FBI itself just, because you never get into a leak war against the FBI, that's unwise.

They just released two days ago, the FBI agent whom Donald Trump most blames is the FBI agent who wrote the first draft of the Comey memo reopening, reopening the investigation Hillary Clinton's emails.

Right, and this guy, we have to, one more weeds point.

Carter Page.

Carter Page is a guy who was on the Trump campaign.

Correct.

He's very much in this memo.

They're kind of hanging their hat on him because he is under investigation.

He was in to see Robert Mueller, I think, already, right?

Okay, but even before Trump thought about running for president, Carter Page

was on the radar of the FBI.

Because they thought he was a Russian spy then.

Donald Trump himself named five advisors.

He only had five foreign policy.

Normal campaigns have hundreds.

Because you have to keep people busy.

But he named five.

Two of the five turned out to be persons of interest with connection to Russian espionage.

That's a pretty high percentage.

So the Christopher Steele memo came way after that.

I mean British spies are good, but they can't go back in time.

Several months.

This is not a document to, as I said, it's not a document to convince.

It's not an document that's meant for you.

It's not an document meant for your viewers.

It's not a document meant to persuade judges or FBI men.

It is a document...

It's written so that Hannity can hold it up and say it's a piece of paper with words on it.

That's exactly right.

That's it.

It's a piece of paper.

I was saying the same thing to my friends.

I said, you know, for years, especially before marijuana was legal in a lot of states, I got, as many people have had, you know, you go to a quack, I mean a serious doctor,

and you get a license to buy medical marijuana to treat whatever it is I told them I had.

And I've always brought it with me because I've been in Texas or someplace that's very dry.

I have a piece of paper.

It can say, look, I have a piece of paper.

A lawyer can hold up a piece of paper in court.

Look, a piece of paper.

That's all this is.

It's just, it's the cops planting drugs on you.

It's that version of it with paper.

Bill, today, John McCain said that this memo and what happened is,

in effect, is the Republicans are doing Putin's job.

This is to discredit the investigation.

This is to also undermine faith in the intelligence agencies.

Look, it's been over a year now since the intelligence agencies have concluded that the Russians interfered.

What are we doing to protect our elections from future hacking?

What are we doing to protect ourselves from any additional meddling?

This is part of the Russians' action.

So how does it end?

Everybody thinks this is released so he can fire Rosenstein, who's the acting attorney general, who's Bob Mueller's boss, and if he gets rid of him,

then what happens?

Then he can appoint, in a recent appointment, a more compliant person.

And the compliant person, he will hope, will do the dirty work of firing Mueller and shutting down the investment.

What happens?

Do we get to a point where somebody is in the Oval Office saying we've been looking for an adult for a long time?

We are the adults.

Right.

We're the adults.

But this is.

What do the Democrats do?

Well, first of all, we should release the Democratic memo.

At least

the American people deserve to see what the Democratic staff, maybe the A team, can finally follow up to what the C team did and we can get some truth out there.

Secondly, we have to figure out a way to protect Mr.

Mueller.

There's no question that they're going to

win the election.

Win the election?

That's how you do it.

And 276 days, but I do believe that there is a need to bring forward some bipartisan legislation to protect him in this investigation, because if we don't, we know what Trump is trying to do.

The systems are cracking.

And

I think a lot of people are very focused on the outsized personality of the president.

And they talk about this, as your first interview of the show did, as if we're having sort of a normal political process and they're reds and blues and they have their different points of view.

The systems are cracking.

And the Republicans in Congress,

they're complicit, but they're not the principles in this case.

They are being dragged along like hostages

in this

attack that is driven, not because Donald Trump has a plan, not because he's got some ideology, but because in sheer self-protection, he cannot, you're either going to have the Trump presidency or the rule of law in this country.

There can't be both because he can't abide both.

But he's vulnerable and he can't.

I always heard you know what?

If you fuck with the deep state, if you fuck with the intelligence agencies, if you fuck with the CIA, you will never win.

And now I don't know.

All I can say is, deep state, please win.

Please,

please be those people you can't fuck with.

Well, yeah.

And

don't screw up or fuck up our democracy.

Because if we, the pillars of our democracy is being weakened by a president who only looks out for himself and his own political goal.

And look, the Republicans need to get in,

this is a co-equal branch of government.

The legislative branch have no reason to follow the executive branch.

They should do what the Constitution gives them power to do and provide oversight and accountability.

They have lost interest in doing that.

I'm sorry, I just got to move along because this is very important to talk about

the fact that Donald Trump is so in the doghouse with his wife.

Oh, please.

And well, you know, again, first it was the Hollywood access tape, then it was 19 accusers, and now the Stormy Daniels affair.

And if you saw the State of the Union, I mean, she's not going near him.

She's very angry.

And Hallmark does not make cards

for anyone as SCSI as Donald Trump.

He's been trying to make it up to Millennia, so we've suggested a few if you'd like to see them.

These are the cards that...

Donald would like to have to be able to send to his wife.

We had a good thing, but I had to spoil it.

Now I cry to myself when I tweet on the toilet.

He's trying to get back.

I didn't wear a condom, I know that was wrong, but you know me, I wasn't in her long.

You know, he's trying.

I made a mistake, I lost my head, but this one I didn't make pee on the bed.

Words cannot express how much I love you.

So here's $14,000 in cash.

I'm sincerely sorry, and I'm not just blabbing.

Your pussy's the only one I want to be grabbing.

I'm begging forgiveness.

I'm down on one knee.

Stormy's like the Constitution.

She means nothing to me.

I know you're angry, and it's me that you're blaming, but you can't leave.

I threw out the crate that you came in.

All right.

He is President Trump's former White House Communications Director, Anthony Scaramucci, the moose.

Oh, come on.

How are you, Anthony?

No.

Thank you for coming.

Thank you for coming.

No, thank you for coming.

I always thank the Republicans because it is a hard place to come.

I always give them...

I thought this was like a Trump fan club meeting in the city.

No, it's not, and it never is.

But Republicans have more balls to come here when they disagree with me 90% of the time than a lot of Democrats who agree with me 90% of the time, and they won't come.

So I will give the Republicans that.

They've got bigger stones.

And I wish you could lend us some.

It's an honor to be here.

President Cupid.

Yes, I have to tell you, you know, Don and I go back a long time, Republicans and Democrats.

We can get along.

We can be disagreeable, but also try to be agreeable while we're doing it or be

cordial.

I mean, I don't have your jokes or your talents.

Here's what I would say about some of the things you said.

Is that okay?

Can I just press it?

So here's the thing I would say, and I would say this both to David and also to Donna, is that

there's a lot going on.

I'm not going to nitpick on the memo.

But when I read the memo today, my reaction to the memo is that there's something wrong with the spirit of the situation.

You know, when you're in law school, and I was in law school with Rod Rosenstein, he was actually in my section at Harvard.

So I've known him for 32 years.

Harvard.

And I like him.

I mean,

he's a great guy.

No, no, that's very impressive.

Just to let you know, I was there with the guy.

He was in my section.

And I have a lot of respect for him.

I hope the president does not fire him, by the way, because I think he's a very ethical and I think he's a very decent guy.

And so, but when I read the stuff, and I, no, no offense to anybody here at the table, but there's something wrong with the spirit in my mind of what is going on right now.

And if the president, not that he would take my advice because I was only there for 11 days, but if the president.

It could be 954,000 seconds too, by the way, if you look at it that way.

But here's what I would say to you.

He would be well served to put a bipartisan group of people together.

and to look at the processes that we have in place to make sure that these agencies are shielded from the accusations of the politicization on either side.

You're dreaming.

That's not what he does.

You know that better than I do.

Why even say that?

It's just, well, it's just, and I want a pony.

I mean,

that's not going to happen, and that's not who he is.

But I'm that.

But I'm saying it for a reason because I want it out there in the airspace.

Well, I don't want him watching this show.

I'm saying.

You're not going to

tell me he watches your show.

No, I don't want him being aware.

He sued me once.

Do you know this?

It was like a $5 million.

That was one of your funniest YouTubable moments.

I watched that whole thing.

Yes.

You had the orange orangutan and the

ball.

Exactly.

I remember the whole fight.

9 out of 11.

Why is he so nuts-oh like that?

I mean, does he understand what he's done to the country?

It's not New York anymore.

Comey is not a building inspector.

You know,

this is America.

So I know you guys, you've got the pin on.

You're thinking yourself as patriots.

But time out a second, okay.

There were two candidates last year that saw what is really going on in the country.

It was Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump.

And people that know me know I grew up in a middle-class town.

My parents didn't go to college.

You went to Harvard.

And I did.

But that's because I grew up in an aspirational working-class family.

Right.

The aspirational working class has shifted into the desperational working class.

And I got to tell you something.

Because of who?

Democrats?

No, no, I don't really think it's anybody's specific blame.

It's a globalization.

But more Republicans.

Okay, well.

More Republicans were more for the 1%

and giving...

The tax cut you just gave away to the 1%.

But the tax cut is actually being downloaded into wages.

There's over 300 companies now that have downloaded the tax cuts.

You know better.

You know where most of the money is going to be.

You know where most of the money is going.

You guys are going to be able to get the best.

And where is most of the money going?

Those are being unfair.

Where's most of the money going?

I showed up.

Give me the two minutes.

give me the two minutes give me the two minutes i showed up when i went to albuquerque new mexico on the campaign and i crossed the secret service line i took my day pin off and i went to talk to the people that were there it was like an epiphany for me because i was like oh my god he's talking and messaging to the people i grew up with if you price my dad's wages his mid 70s wages 1970 they're down about 35 percent in real economic terms you can blame the the Republicans if you want, but I don't really think it's just the Republicans.

It's not a problem.

It's what happened.

It would happen in the globalization.

To get us focused on something, because one of the things we're very concerned about, and you make some good points of what's happening to the economy, but we're concerned about what is happening to our institutions and our government.

So I have a question for you.

Before you went into government, where you served as communications advisor, you received an enormous offer from a Chinese group for the purchase of your company for about $90 million

before you went in.

After you came out, the purchasers lost lost interest.

That's not true.

How am I to understand that?

The purchasers did not lose.

David, that's a factually incorrect statement.

Did they buy the company?

They didn't buy the company because the company needs CIFIA's approval.

And that's an intergovernmental agency.

Okay, this is a different show.

No, no, but hold on.

We're not doing it.

This is a different employee anyway.

David, you're making an accusation that's completely untrue.

I want to understand something.

Well, you should call the Treasury Department.

You're making an accusation that's completely untrue.

And we can't check any of this.

I signed the purchase and sale agreement.

Nobody knows what we're we're talking about.

No one cares.

This is, I know, I'm telling him.

It's very difficult.

It's a little bit of like a set-up question because he's trying to suggest that they were bumping.

I'm with you on this, though.

Take yes for an answer.

You know, I mean, I don't, you know, by the way, I curse a lot, but I don't curse on TV.

That's a little BS, actually.

I'm going to call you out on that because you don't know the facts.

You don't curse.

I don't curse on TV.

You curse to reporters.

You're the one who said Steve Bannon sucks his own car.

You did.

And you were right.

He does.

Hold on a second.

Hold on a second.

I mean,

I'm sort of surprised that that didn't win the fake news award.

Okay, I'm sort of surprised about that.

Oh, so you didn't say that?

No, I don't think he's anatomically capable of it.

I mean,

we took it as a metaphor.

You didn't say it as a metaphor.

I said it.

I own the car.

I own the case.

Right.

And it's a.

But what David's trying to say is that the Chinese company bought my business.

Why are we going back to this?

Okay.

I don't care about you and China.

The sale agreement still stands.

Call the Treasury, ask them

why it's a national security issue to sell a $200 million.

I don't get it already.

I see why you and Trump.

I'm a set of questions.

No, but I see why you and Trump get along.

Well, New Yorkers are...

You actually would get along with him.

I hope so.

You would, because you got a tough personality.

You know how to give it as well as take it, and that's what his personality is.

But I'll give you this about Donald Trump.

He has an almost inhuman ability to withstand pressure.

I've never seen anybody do it like him.

He never, resilient, he never moves.

This is, no, really, no matter what comes at him, he sleeps, well, probably like a baby, drooling and

don't go there, Bill.

Don't go there.

I'm not going to go there.

Don't go there.

But like, no matter, he never.

He doesn't really sleep that much, to be honest.

I know.

And it shows.

And it shows, thank you.

Took the words out of it.

But, you know, he is the son, and he makes everyone slowly, because he's a ball of gas and dust

and he slowly makes these all republicans a year ago we were saying like how many of these republicans are going to come over slowly or everybody falls into the orbit of the sun king and he does it by just staying exactly right where he is he doesn't move he's like a guy at a party some people go to a party and they circulate some people sit well let the party come to him he lets everybody come to him and i would ask this question of not just you but everybody is he winning Because he may be.

No,

I think he's winning.

But let me ask you a question.

Why did he win the election?

Well, Russia helped.

There were reasons.

We're going to disagree on that.

You don't think Russia helped?

That's suggesting that he colluded with the Russians.

Well, even if he did,

he totally did.

But even if he didn't,

but even if he didn't, Anthony, you know that

all 17 of our intelligence agencies said Russia meddled in our election.

That's

what I'm saying.

Well, then I just said they helped.

Okay, but that's one reason why

they were helping him or

creating a disruption in the process.

As a Republican,

they favored him.

I've spent more time in a Republican administration than you.

As a Republican, does it not?

David's coming across pretty angry.

I am angry, really.

Does it not stick in your craw that Vladimir Putin wanted to help your guy so much?

Oh, I didn't see.

See, you brought up the Wikileaks thing.

The Wikileaks guy said.

Doesn't it bother you?

Don't you ask the question, why did my guy tell me?

Why did my guy win the primary?

Why are you talking about the Russians?

Okay, I didn't hear you.

Your level of anger and sanctimony is not coming across great.

No, but I think

it's a good question.

I have not enough.

We can have an eye, but for me, it's not a show.

It's not a performance.

No, no, no.

It's the country that is in danger, and you help to engage with it.

I'm going to tell you what you're doing.

You're making a very big mistake.

No, no, no, no.

We need to have this conversation.

You're turning a deaf ear to what's actually really going on out there.

This is real.

You're going to play that card or you're going to name drop Harvard, one or the other.

Look, guys.

Let me ask you, I'm going to be able to do both, David.

Isn't that shooting me?

If y'all going to start a fight, I'm going to get Harvard.

I actually came from nowhere and went to Harvard.

How about that?

Okay, good for you.

I'm able to do both.

I went to LSU, all right?

I only brought it up because Rosenstein is a good guy, and I have no problem with Senate Rosenstein.

But I've known him for 32 years.

But you mentioned that the president,

why hasn't the president called for an independent commission?

away from Congress, away from the partisanship to investigate what happened.

And what do we do?

He just suggested that, and I told him it was silly.

Well, no.

It's not silly.

But he's not going to do it.

So let's not pretend.

All right.

So let's move on to to the next step.

He's not going to do it.

He's being complicit.

If he's not going to do it, then he is complicit.

Okay.

Because he's not doing anything to stop it from happening again.

So how about this?

So the B,

David Franklin

Carterson.

It is part of what rattles the American people.

How do we prevent this from happening?

It's happening in Mexico.

What are we going to do?

He's not going to do anything.

Okay, but since we don't have a waterboarding operation,

we're not going to get him to admit that point.

So let's move on.

That's what I'm saying.

That's all I'm saying.

I'm happy.

Listen, I'm

the objective guy.

I'm happy to have you.

And you're being so cool, baby.

But he is.

Exactly.

I'm made of.

Exactly.

And that is a red volleys of blue.

I don't want Putin in my election.

Do you?

I don't, but

you're losing the.

What do you think of the state of the union?

You're taking a normative approach.

What'd you think of the state of the projectile democracy.

And what about the response?

What about the Kennedy kids?

What do you think about him?

You came from nowhere.

He came from everything.

I might not have any problem with Joe Kennedy.

I thought, hey, hey, listen, there is a problem in the country, okay?

You guys may not see it, but I see it.

The president saw it.

Bernie Sanders saw it.

Maybe David sees it.

I don't know.

But I can take him to places where he could see it.

There is a problem in the country.

The people have less disposable income.

Yeah, okay.

With an opioid crisis.

We got there.

Okay.

I know, but not.

Okay, so he's going to win again.

When he wins re-election, you're going to be able to get away from the winner.

Yeah, he might.

He might.

When he wins

election in 2020, who are you going to put up, Donald?

Who's your person?

Joe candidates.

Look, there's

people who want to run.

One person that's going to beat him.

Hell.

Don't you worry.

We got more than enough firepower on the Democratic side.

Because I'm not here to support you.

I have many candidates.

Maybe five.

I'll give you my entire list of 50 in the back room.

15.

Okay.

And you're saying that that of those 15 candidates, one of them is going to beat Donald Trump.

Oh, let me tell you what.

He's sitting president in a rising economy.

He picked the lock in 2016.

He won by less than 78,000 votes in three states.

This time, we will not allow it to happen.

That's not actually happening.

We will not allow it to actually happen.

That's a very good emotional applause line, but that's not what happened.

This is all for America.

The rise of Trumpism is concomitant to the decline of Clintonism, okay?

The rigging of that primary situation that you wrote about.

I did not know that

you didn't read my book.

You did not read my book.

I'll make sure I'll personalize a copy because I have a copy of your book.

Personalize a copy.

I'll personalize a copy.

The rise of Trumpism is a global phenomenon.

It's happening across the developed world, and it's a sign of the weakening of Democratic institutions, and it is a crisis.

And it is a crisis that is bigger than one party.

And Democrats, unfortunately, do not understand what has happened.

They are still searching.

Republicans do not understand what has happened.

There are so many people in the Republican world who are aghast and yet they're being dragged along like prisoners to

an outcome that may well re-elect President

President Trump.

Because we're not guaranteed any happy answers.

I can offer one more answer because we left that a long time ago about why he won and I said Russia was one reason.

Another reason is, well, it's certainly one of the reasons.

It's one of the...

How many times did Secretary can't go to Wisconsin?

No, Western Race, let one thing go.

Just can somebody on this panel let one thing go?

Just so we can go.

I'm letting so much go.

I know, but this guy, this one.

I mean, this guy.

I don't let anything go.

I know, I know.

Two up for 76 days to the midterm.

I'm letting it go.

I'm ready.

Okay.

I'm ready.

Here's another reason why: is because there are two sets of rules for the two parties.

Sure.

We saw this this week when Steve Wynn, who got caught up in the Me Too movement.

Apparently, he's been not doing the right thing there in Las Vegas.

Okay.

So he was the RNC chair.

He had to step down.

Now, when Al Franken stepped down, the head of the RNC said, well, he's got to give back every cent.

And many central

nickel.

And Harvey Weinstein, all that money had to go back.

Steve Wynne has given a lot of money.

You know what the RNC said?

We accept his resignation.

In other words, different rules for us.

There's different rules for the Supreme Court.

There's different rules for voter fraud.

There's different rules for gerrymandering.

Am I allowed to react to it?

You are.

I'm just laying it out.

I'm just saying.

And this is, I'm not blaming the Republicans entirely.

The Democrats should not be letting that happen.

Okay, so let me react to it.

Okay, I think that this thing was obviously the explosion that took place in the Me Too movement, and I have a beautiful daughter and a wife and a lot of women in my family.

I want them to have a safe space.

That explosion is bipartisan.

It's a cross-category.

It's a cross-industry.

And so I think that people are making a mistake.

so many mistakes in this situation.

But if they're going to give back the money or say that other people should get back the money, then they should do the same thing and get back the money.

But I'm going to tell you something right now.

I'm going to tell you something right now, we have to also address this as a society because, as bad as actors as these people are,

you and I both believe in prison recidivism, you know, the reform of the

prison situation.

Koch families alongside of Valerie Jarrett and President Obama.

You mentioned your kids.

You don't want to have a professional life-death sentence for these people.

72% of Republicans say he's a good role model, Trump is for children.

Would you say he's a good role model for children?

Do I think he's a good one?

I think he's been a good dad.

That's not the same thing.

He has.

You can't fake good kids.

He's got very good kids.

Well, we don't know that, but

I wouldn't say he has good.

I don't think he has good kids.

Well, I do.

I know them personally, and I think they're good.

I want to say something, Bill.

You made a good point.

We need to have one standard.

We need to have one standard on sexual harassment.

We shouldn't be telling John Conyers and Al Franken to go to hell, resign their positions.

Blake Farento is still there in Congress to rule taxpayer money after the taxpayers settle his case.

We shouldn't have different rules.

We should have one rule, one standard.

We shouldn't be telling Democrats to turn the money back and the Republicans, well, we'll wait for due process.

We're going to have to have a path to redemption.

But there must be.

There must be some things when your kids are a little older, your young ones, for example, when they come to you and they say, Daddy, I just found out you worked for Donald Trump in 2017.

And then they ask you about the Hollywood access technology.

I say to them, I watched my dad get up at 4 a.m.

with a lunch pail, and I was able to live an amazing middle-class life.

And the next generation, when the whole society shifted, they weren't able to do that.

And so I was thinking about that.

But the kids asking about the pussy grabbing.

What are you talking about?

Well, I'm not.

If you ask me about that, I'll be, depending on his age, I'll be very honest with him.

I'll say, you know what?

There's a lot of flawed people in the world.

Your daddy's got a whole phone book of flaws, probably half a phone book just in the 11 days in the White House.

And I would say to them that I'm not going to judge him the way

Bill Clinton's not judged, Donald Trump's not judged, or this whole thing.

And see if we go back to Bill Clinton.

What about Clarence Thomas?

I mean,

we constantly...

I'm not really even trying to say that.

All right, I'm going to hear you go again.

I'm not trying to say that.

Well, it's time for new rules, everybody.

Sorry, I have to for fun.

It's a live show.

All right.

You'll like these rules.

They're kind of fun.

I'll keep watching them.

Or you'll hate them.

New rules.

Stop saying.

The only time Sean's face will be on this show.

Stop saying...

Yeah, even

welcome aboard.

Stop saying Sean Hannity's Twitter account, getting briefly shut down, was part of some deep state conspiracy.

Maybe he was just so far up Trump's ass he lost service.

He is kind of far up Trump's ass.

Come on.

Never mind.

He's gone.

That's good.

I like it.

New rule on Sunday, someone has to beat these Patriots.

I'm sorry, but I...

I just want to live to see the day when the pure unbridled joy gets wiped off Bill Belichick's face

and is replaced with this.

Neural, stop saying that giving explicit verbal consent ruins the mood.

You just have to make consent sexy with useful phrases like, I want to fulfill the terms of our agreement so hard.

Or,

I'm going to come, I'm going to come, I'm going to come in the designated location per our conversation of January 12th.

New rules, someone has to explain to me the difference between Bitcoin and me saying, this hunk of foil I just rolled up into a ball is worth a million dollars.

Bitcoin, it's more than just a cryptocurrency, it's beanie babies.

And I did that one for you.

I thought it's a currency you'd like to.

That's great.

Neurolog.

When you're in front of me in the supermarket checkout, don't be so quick to slap down that divider between your food and mine.

It's my lunch, not the Korean demilitarized zone.

And what would happen?

What would happen if your kale touched my ding-dong?

If you care so much about personal space, how come you're parked like this?

And finally, new world Trump fans have to admit that of all the lies he vomits on a daily basis,

the one that makes you look the dumbest is this.

On day one,

we will begin working on an impenetrable, physical, tall, powerful, beautiful southern border wall.

You can believe anything else, but give me this one.

Just admit you got conned when you actually thought that Blob the Builder was going

was going to erect the eighth wonder of the world for free and Mexico would pick up the check.

If you don't want to say it out loud, you can mow it into the corn.

come on man we've all been there you bought weed in the park and when you got home it was pine needles and oregano

even general kelly had to admit a couple of weeks ago that trump's idea the wall was uninformed and had evolved.

Ooh, that pissed Trump off.

He quickly lie-tweeted, the wall is the wall.

It has never changed or evolved from the first day I conceived of it.

Yes, conceived.

He's the Leonardo da Vinci of walls.

His drawings of walls and his notebooks were years ahead of their time.

And don't ever confuse it with a fence.

Oh, during the campaign, Trump tweeted to Jeb Bush, it's not a fence, Jeb.

It's a wall.

There's a big difference.

Except now it's a fence.

Problem is, Trump fans don't want a fence or a river or a virtual barrier.

They want a fucking wall.

Because a wall represents an impregnable barrier that keeps out not just Mexicans, but everything that makes them feel antsy about the old America that's slipping away.

The wall, it's like one of those prescription drugs that blocks the causes of your discomfort.

Yes, now there's Mexigon.

Mexicon.

Mexigon has been clinically proven to reduce the pain caused by foreigners entering the country illegally.

Mexicon works with your natural gull ability to construct a wall that keeps immigrants from shithole countries out

and good paying jobs in so you can get back to cleaning your guns and sending out Facebook memes of Hillary getting hit with a golf ball.

Except it doesn't work that way.

Most illegals don't even cross the border.

They come here the same way you came back from Cabo.

They catch a flight, and then they just stay.

Like that Australian on your couch.

Even Trump admitted the wall was bogus when he was caught on tape in a call to Mexico's president saying the wall is the least important thing we are talking about.

It was always just an applause line that got out of hand.

So there you have it.

The wall will not help with employment.

It's not feasible to build.

And even Trump knows it's bullshit.

And if all that isn't enough to deter you, let me add this, Trumpsters.

You don't need it.

Because everything that wall represents, the bigotry, the racism, the ignorance, the paranoia, is already in your heart.

Yes,

the wall has been inside you the whole time.

Trump just brought it out because He's the jackass whisperer.

But you don't need it.

every time you vote for a child molester because the other choice is a Democrat the wall is there

every time you feel rage because a voice recording says for Spanish press too

the wall is there

it's there whenever you begin a Facebook post with I'm not a racist but

And it's there every time a unisex bathroom makes you hold it till you get home.

It's there when snow makes you deny global warming.

And it's there at the ball game when two gays on the kiss can make you throw up in your mouth.

Every time you use air quotes when you say the word college,

the wall is there.

It's there when you use Jew as a verb.

and it's there every time you're Tucker Carlson so you don't need a wall because you see even without it you're still the grumpy asshole who ruins Thanksgiving.

All right, that's our show.

I want to thank my guest David Flum, Donner Brisk,

and Anthony Scarabukti the Mooch and Richard Haas is coming back for overtime.

We'll see you on YouTube.

Thank you.

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10, or watch him anytime on HBO On Demand.

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