Ep. #434: Al Franken, Penn Jillette

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Welcome to an HBO podcast from the HBO Late Night Series, Real Time with Bill Ma.

Start the clock.

Thank you very much.

Thank you.

Thank you, people.

Oh, I appreciate it.

Thank you very much.

Okay, all right.

We've got a big show, a lot of people, I think.

Thank you very much.

I love you too.

I think I know why you're happy.

Trump's vacation

not going well.

He is about as popular right now as a neurovirus on a cruise ship.

Wow.

Trump supporters?

Well, if there are any here, they're welcome.

Tired of winning?

I'm asking.

Because

I feel like the question of the week is, how can we get tired of winning if the South won't shut up about losing?

And

that's not.

All right.

Look.

I travel in the South.

There are a lot of gigs down there.

That's not the whole South.

There are many fine people

in the South, but not the ones who go to Klan marches.

Here's a.

Here's a hint.

You're not a fine person.

If the guy next to you has a swastika flag.

That's a hint.

If the party you want to go to looks like Comic-Con for sociopaths,

you are not a fine person.

But look, I would never say that Donald Trump could not go lower because he's the king of low.

But to watch what went on this week in Charlottesville and then to come out with, Nazis, they're just like us.

He

kept saying this, violence on both sides.

Okay, first of all, there wasn't.

Sorry, but liberals don't form militias, they form drum circles.

And even if there was, which there wasn't, you know what?

There was violence on both sides in World War II.

We were still the good guys.

I didn't agree with everything George Bush did after 9-11, but he didn't side with al-Qaeda.

He didn't say some of the hijackers were fine people.

I thought it was so fitting that the lowest point in this lowly administration was Tuesday, the one day he was back at Trump Tower,

where the horror all began, where he was fuming that the day before he had to denounce racists.

And you know, as he launched into his defense of neo-Nazis who were chanting, Jews will not replace us.

Standing beside him was his Jewish Treasury Secretary, Steve Mnuchin, and his Jewish Economic Council head, Gary Cohen.

Now, neither one of them has plans to quit, but if they do, Jews will replace them.

So right now, you know, the right wig is all pretending that this is about, this is just about Civil War monuments.

You know, that's what the big thing.

They were at races.

They were just not wanting these monuments to come down of Robert E.

Lee and Stonewall Jackson.

Trump said this week, who's next?

Washington?

Jefferson?

Yeah, but you know, we put up statues of Washington and Jefferson despite the fact that they owned slaves.

For them, slavery was a bug.

For Robert E.

Lee, it was a feature.

And

speaking of getting rid of racist eyesores, Steve Bannon is out.

Oh yeah.

Yeah that was that was the big news today.

Trump told him this bunker is not big enough for the both of us.

No, because Bannon, come on, never got along with Jared Kushner, who will probably take over some of his duties.

So again,

to the people chanting Jews will not replace us.

Yeah, they kind of did it again.

But boy,

I tell you, the bodies are piling up outside the White House.

I mean, the number of people who have been General Flynn,

Reince Priebus, Sean Spicer, LaMooch,

Steve Badden.

I mean, this is going to sound a little racist, but why can't lazy white people keep a job?

So the question now is who is still with Trump?

Because even his buddies on the right are all, the Manufacturing Council has resigned.

The Strategic Policy Forum has resigned.

The Advisory Council on Infrastructure won't take his calls anymore.

Mitt Romney, both Bushes denounced him.

Conservative senators like Bob Corker denounced him.

And perhaps the harshest blow of all, last night Ivanka made him sleep on the couch.

So, I know, but you know, so he's a little blue, so, of course, what do they do with the president's dial?

They have a big rally planned, they're going to go to Phoenix, big rally in Phoenix, and his handlers want to cheer him up.

And they're going to wait till the you know, the eclipse is coming.

They're going to wait till the eclipse happens and then tell him there were three million people there.

And this is amazing.

By sheer coincidence, 92% of the eclipse is going to be going over what they call the path of totality, where the sun will be completely obscured, and it falls over 92% of it over counties that voted for Trump.

Just what we need, these people even more in the dark.

All right, we got a great show.

Gavin Newsom is here, our Lieutenant Governor Amy Holmes, and a little later we'll be speaking with Penn Gillette.

Wow.

But first up, he is the best-selling author of Giant of the Senate and the junior senator from Minnesota.

A great American, Al Franken.

Al Franken, you are a great American.

Thank you.

Al Franken, great American, giant of the Senate.

It's so great to be able to see you put out a book like that that where there's irony right on the cover.

Yes.

You're allowed to.

Thanks for realizing that.

Many don't.

No, there are some

people who don't.

Right.

But irony.

Yeah, I know.

But

I want to ask you, because you are a senator, and this week Bob Corker, among others, have made statements that we were waiting for them to make for a long time.

What took people like Bob Corker and other Republicans so long?

Exactly.

I mean,

what took them so long?

I've known for weeks that Trump is a terrible president.

You're always out ahead, Al.

I've known.

All right, so is this a turning point, do you think?

I mean, we've said this before, this

year.

No, I asked the question.

I mean it, is this a turning point with how people view and treat Trump, even on the right, or will this be just sewn into his horror quilt?

And in a month, we have forgotten it, and we've moved past it like we moved past pussy grabbing and everything else.

I just, you know, a lot of people say now Bannon's going, is that going to make a difference?

The problem with this administration is Trump.

And it's going to continue.

So, and we've heard this, we've heard this, you know, when Kelly comes in, there'll be, you know, that'll, everything will be fine.

And then,

boom, he threatens nuclear war.

Right.

You know,

so, and, you know, that was last week, Al.

That was, I know, that was

last week.

But

I'm talking about Kelly.

But I'm asking him about Kelly.

But this week was

unbelievably

horrible.

This was a tragic week.

And,

you know, and Bannon on his way out was saying like, well, you know, Democrats can talk about blocks all they want.

I mean, just sickening.

It was just a sickening week.

Three people lost their lives.

This is,

but I don't...

I don't think he changes.

This was Trump in all.

I'm not asking about him.

We know he won't change.

You're a senator.

You know these senators.

You've made friends with

a difference in the Senate.

Yes, will will the people who enable him that I mean he's nothing without his enablers well here's my there are a number of Republican senators who have been saying from the beginning that

they have a lot of doubts about him

but who won't go public with that because he still has 80-some percent of his base behind him and that's their base.

So politically, they're unwilling to go public.

And there are some people that said, you know, neo-Nazis, there's nothing good about neo-Nazis, et cetera, but wouldn't blame Trump.

So no, I don't, we are going to work in bipartisan ways.

We're going to do it.

Thank God.

Their health care

repeal and replace or whatever that skinny thing was all went down.

And we are going to work in a bipartisan way.

Lamar Alexander,

chairman of the Health Committee, Health, Education, Labor, and Pension Committee, I'm on that committee.

Patty Murray, the ranking member from Washington.

We're going to work together to shore up the exchanges so that we can make premiums, bring down premiums and

bring down co-pays and cover people like they should be covered.

And that's what we're going to do.

It's really going to be a bipartisan.

And we're going to

be addressing pharmaceutical prices.

Everybody here, everybody in the country knows

I have I use only street drugs, though.

I never go near pharmaceuticals.

I know you're very healthy and just

and don't need the pharmaceuticals, but I see people here who do.

But

we pay more than any other country pays.

I have a comprehensive bill to bring down the cost of pharmaceuticals, as the ideas of a lot of senators, and we will work together in the Help Committee to address that.

And it's so interesting, reading your book, I mean, you are friendly with a lot of these people who are, you know, obviously politically on another planet from you.

Well, they're just different.

than me.

I mean,

that's, we

represent different parts of the country.

They tend to be...

We're cut from the same stripe.

You know, it's funny, you said something about, you used the word a pill.

If you're a pill, people are not going to work with you.

I was like, Did I use that word?

Absolutely.

But my mom used to do that.

My mom used to say that.

That's why I was like, I've never heard that word except in your book and from my mother.

That's the only argument.

Yeah.

Well, and you're, and you see, this is you're like the anti-Trump.

He, even the people who agree with him politically now they hate him because he's such a hateful person.

Yes, where they don't agree.

You say Mitch McConnell, Jeff Sessions, you

like these people when you're.

You say when you're friendly with them.

Friendly, well, that's what, how is that different than you like them?

When you're off the clock.

Now, I agree with you.

Politics, I've always said, is an extension of morality.

That's why I can't really quite understand the Republican mindset.

But you have to work together.

Of course you do.

And there are Republicans that are very good to work with.

And I've done,

and you look, you're a small town.

You're 100 people, 100 senators.

You've got to get along with everybody in a small town.

And so if I want to get legislation

on railroad regulation with David Vitter, I did a bill with.

But to make friends,

the diaper guy?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that didn't figure into this legislation at all.

When I first got there, I did a bill to get service dogs to veterans with invisible wounds.

And I did that with

Johnny Isaacson of Georgia.

And he was my first co-sponsor.

The bill got done.

We got dogs to the veterans.

About a month later, we were at Teddy Kennedy's funeral.

We were during this August recess.

He said to me, I've been getting great feedback on this dog bill.

Al, if you want me to co-sponsor anything, just let me know.

And I said, well, I got a bill.

It's a marriage equality

abortion on demand bill.

And he said, I'll get back to you.

But you have to be able to.

Yes, as they always have.

Talk to the other side, even when you don't like their politics.

Of course.

And if they like you.

My point is, like when they like you, when you have those dinners, where you said you can make milk.

That was a joke.

I say in the book that, you know, when we're, I'm not going to write things like when I'm,

you know, after,

you know, squabbling on the floor, Mitch and I will go out to dinner and he'll laugh so hard that milk shoots out his nose.

I didn't think.

That was a joke.

Yes, I didn't think it really shot out his nose.

I've never gone out to dinner with Mitch.

Okay.

Are you happy?

Why are you so sensitive about this?

Well, I'm trying to give you a compliment and plug your book.

And you're like, oh, okay.

Oh, I never did those things.

Well, do it directly.

Did you like the book?

I really did.

It's so great to see you funny again.

So great to see you being able to be funny again because...

Well, there was a period.

There was a period.

But, you know, when you see...

And of course, the reason why you couldn't is because you had worried that, oh, something in the past I said was politically incorrect.

Now that Trump has broken all those barriers,

it must look like, why, what was I worried about?

Obviously, you can do what you're doing.

Well, it was a different time.

And

when I I ran in 2008, the Republicans built this $15 million machine called the dehumorizer.

And it was built with state-of-the-art Israeli technology to take all the humor out of anything I'd ever done in comedy and just leave an offensive thing.

And so I had to, I thought being a comedian would be helpful.

I thought people liked comedy.

I thought that my career, yeah.

But I had to, once I got to the Senate, having won by 312 votes, I wanted to show the people of Minnesota that I was serious, that I was going to be a workhorse.

That's what I did.

Yes.

Next time I won by over 200,000 votes.

Absolutely.

And

absolutely.

And

when you and Gavin Newson are the ticket for 2020 for president and vice president, I'm not saying which one.

You're going to do even better.

Al Franken, everybody.

Al Franken.

See you at dinner.

Let's lead our panel.

Hi, everybody.

Okay.

I'm telling you, we got the ticket right here for 2020.

All right, so here they are.

He is California's lieutenant governor.

He'll be running for governor of this state in 2018.

I'm supporting him, Gavin Newsom.

And she's a political analyst for Rastlusson Reports, one of our best and oldest, not oldest in life, but on the show.

Friends, Amy Holmes is here.

Amy Holmes.

Don't

forget to send us your questions for tonight's overtime so you can answer them after the show on YouTube.

Okay, so there was international news yesterday, and we're not going to address it.

It was Barcelona.

It was a terrible terrorist attack.

Two.

Yes.

It was the second one.

And we are certainly thinking of the victims and everything there, but I just want to say radical Islamic terrorists have had many a moment on this show.

This week is about homegrown American terrorism.

God bless you.

That's what we need to talk about.

And I want to, Ivanka Trump tweeted, there should be no place in society for racism, white supremacy, and neo-Nazis.

But there is.

The Republican Party.

I'm sorry to say that, but

as I was saying to to Al, Trump may come and go, but 67% of Republicans approved of his reaction to the events in Charlottesville.

68%

said that when he blamed both sides, he was being accurate.

I think that's way too high, and I know a lot about being way too high.

But hold on.

NPR, PBS also did polling that found support for neo-Nazis, white supremacist, whatever you want to call them, the alt-right.

I mean, these are the same people that beat up Geraldo all those years ago.

Do you remember where they threw the chair at his face?

They might wear white shirts and khakis, but they're the same old poison in a new bottle, the neo-Nazis.

And NPR, PBS, found that the support among Republicans and the general public was like single digits, 2%, 3%.

They do not have the support of the American people.

No, but this

67% approved of Trump's reaction to them.

So this is a little bit about the enabler thing again.

Yeah, and I mean, look, and symbols of that kind of racism and white supremacy are everywhere.

There are over 100 public schools in this country venerating the failed leadership of military leaders of the Confederacy.

And 10 military bases, 80 cities and counties that reference these same folks.

And so these symbols of hate, not heritage, are everywhere.

And until those issues are resolved and those symbols are disposed of, we're not going to ultimately get to the place where we can kind of have the conversations or advance the conversations that ultimately will address these issues.

What responsibility?

You're someone who works with Glenn Beck at the Blaze, and now Steve Bannon is going back to Breitbart, so you know this world intimately well.

Well I knew Andrew Breitbart very well.

He was on this show a lot.

Absolutely.

And he would have been appalled by the alt-right co-opting the Breitbart platform.

Andrew himself was Jewish.

He had an adopted Asian sister.

This was not at all in the tradition that Andrew was trying to create.

Okay, but I was going to ask about Fox News, because I truly believe Fox News,

as much as we blame them all the time, it's not enough.

They are the Jurassic Park

that took the DNA of the Nazis and reanimated it.

I absolutely believe that.

I believe that that without Fox News for years giving the kind of poison they give over their airwaves, putting it into people's heads, and then the internet, I think, which people say they're radicalized on the internet.

Before, if you were a neo-Nazi,

unless you found somebody in your town at the coffee shop, now you can find them on the internet.

And then the president gave permission to them.

So Fox News, the Internet, Donald Trump, that's the perfect storm that has,

you know, put something that used to be only, I mean, a week ago, we were making fun of this row.

We called it Cracker Cella, and everybody was laughing about it.

And now I don't know how many people are out there like this.

Right.

Well,

with the neo-Nazis finding one another on social media, communicating, organizing, it sort of reminds me of pedophiles, actually.

Before social media, you had to lurk in your basement and around

playgrounds.

And now they can find each other online and try to create some political movement out of it and normalize it.

That social media really is magnifying this, which is why the president had a special responsibility to denounce it.

And he had a special responsibility

He had a special responsibility as President of the United States to speak to the concerns and the values of his fellow Americans, which in vast numbers

opposes this ugliness and this disgracefulness that we saw on the streets.

I agreed that he needed to name it and shame it the way we do, radical Islamic terrorism.

And let's face it, if they had been marching down those streets with ISIS flags, I don't think we'd be having the same kind of conversation.

Of course not.

And Amy, I agree with everything you just said, but how does any of the fact that he didn't surprise anybody?

I mean, he ran,

this is who Donald Trump is.

And this is, I mean,

for me, the reaction of people being appalled, including Senator Corker and others, is rather disingenuous.

Did they not pay attention to this last election?

Have they not paid attention to Donald Trump's entire career, going back 44 years and discrimination lawsuits he was up against?

Did they not pay attention to what he said about refugees and

animals?

What's really strange here is that Donald Trump did used to know these things.

That he gave interviews where he did denounce David Duke.

No, he wasn't.

But then bizarrely, no, no, no, no, that was when he was running.

So I'm saying when he went into politics,

that is when he started to equivocate

his whole life.

His whole life.

I mean, it's his whole life.

I can't agree with that.

But

I mean, he's been involved in

racially charged lawsuits, not just as it relates to housing discrimination, but also in the cassette.

But

he's said it consistently.

I'll answer your question.

Of being a bigot and a racist.

Certainly, I mean,

I'm sure you saw that National Review dedicated an entire issue to trying to derail Donald Trump's candidacy.

There were plenty of conservatives who were

critical of him throughout the campaign.

I think the surprise here was that the answer was so easy and it would have been so politically beneficial to him.

I mean,

to try to say that there are fine people who march along neo-Nazis, I don't care if they were doing a march for tax cuts.

You wouldn't stand next to them.

That's ridiculous.

And so I think for a lot of Republicans, politically, they say, But this would have been such a ridiculous thing.

If I could just one more thing about Fox News, because the Washington Post put up a really interesting video the other day, which showed that the talking points that Trump said in his Tuesday press conference were the exact things that were on.

Not just Sean Hennedty, but he watches Fox News all the verbatim.

Verbatim.

Almost verbatim.

And like, listen, over the last 20 years, I have encountered so many people, usually older people, older white men, who I thought were normal people, and they suddenly were saying things at Hollywood cocktail parties like Obama purposely ruined America purposely I mean the fact that he didn't ruin America he actually saved it from a depression forget it but they and okay all right okay

but I thought oh Fox got another one and now your crazy right-wing uncle who ruins Thanksgiving

is the president yeah he

I mean Roger Ailes did not live to see the promised land.

He's like a douchebag Moses.

He just never

saw how powerful Fox News is, that this is all the president does all day is watch this shit and then parrot it.

But Bill, I can tell you, having been on Fox News many times, talking with different hosts who are critical of the president, guests who are consistently, Charles Krauthammer, you have folks on Fox and Friends, they have this conversation both on television and in the green room.

Are there hosts that seem to be defending Trump

no matter what he does?

Yes, but there are plenty like Martha McCallum who don't.

But it's not just Trump, it's points.

It's the points they give him.

I mean, literally, they give him talking points.

They gave him the talking points on the alt left.

All of a sudden, he starts parodying these things.

He literally picked, I mean, Fox and Friends, please.

I mean, of all places.

I mean, that's the ultimate manifestation of Bill's point.

So, no, it's become Russian television for the Trump administration.

There's no damn difference.

So,

the question now

that a lot of people are asking, I hear it all the time this week, is should people around him quit?

I mean, he's obviously shown his cards that he's not just a racist adjacent, but he is this horrible person.

What do you think?

Because when it comes to like the generals,

no.

I say

get the generals where they are, because if he does something super crazy,

you're going to need those generals to get on the phone to the base commander and say, he's nuts, don't fire the missiles.

And they'll listen to a general.

And they've showed remarkable independence on the transgender ban.

They showed remarkable independence on North Korea and all

and Charlotte's bill itself.

So I give them a lot of credit.

But when it comes to these advisory committees and when it comes to these photo op type committees, absolutely, if they have any dignity and self-respect, they will resign.

But I agree with you in terms of that framework, that foundation of the national security team, those folks should stick around.

But it's beyond me that Cohen and all these others are sticking around at this stage of this administration, going down with the ship.

Beyond me.

Right.

We need people, good, decent, accomplished people serving in government.

And it would not advance America's interests for the people that you just named to resign.

And I would also say we need them there to hem in some of the president's most destructive impulses.

That's why I was so glad to see that Steve Bannon was out.

When I saw that news, when I landed in LA and I saw the dredge headline, Bannon is out, I was like, Jesus, if I believed in you, I would praise you right now.

Okay?

Getting rid of this guy that

you talked about him being an enabler.

We had reporting from the New York Times that Steve Bannon was whispering in Donald Trump's ear about the response to Charlottesville.

It was not only bad politics, it was bad for our country.

He then went on to say that he wants to continue having this sort of warfare.

That is not appropriate advice to be giving the president of the United States.

No,

and when you look at this list

who have been shown the door, Bannon, Flynn, Comey, Yates,

Gorca, if we can add those to the list, they're

respecting.

That's my worry, is that the people who replace these people are only Stephen Millers.

Only the people who...

I'm not so sure about that because you have to remember who Donald Trump is now, who his chief of staff is now.

And that's General Kelly.

And I've written about Mr.

Kelly, General Kelly.

He's actually apolitical.

Oh, wow.

He's kept his

refuses to say who he voted for in November, which I think tells us.

He's had a rough couple weeks.

All right, so I want to ask about these statues, but first, you know, when you look at these statues of Civil War generals on the southern side, I always wonder, like, what happened to southern hospitality?

Just the idea of, well, this offends some people.

I won't do it.

And you serve them some sweet tea?

Yeah, it seems like the people who walk by these statues every day never ask themselves a simple question, what does this mean to other people who are offended by that?

So we thought we would come up with our own statues to show them a little bit.

To show these heritage people what it would be like if you had to walk by a statue you didn't like every day.

So, say they replaced the Robert E.

Lee of the Stonewall Jackson with Colin Kaeperdick taking a knee during the national anthem.

How would they like that one?

Then there could be the War on Christmas Memorial, where they're

pulling down the Christmas.

The evolution of Jesus would probably piss off.

The Jamal Washington Monument would be very

which in many cities would be across the park from the tribute to jungle fever.

That would definitely piss them off.

This is Trump surrounded by Russian hookers.

You see, there they are,

just like many fountains with their beautiful waterfalls.

This commemorates a moment that made every racist shout never again, magic dunking on bird.

I'd love to see that.

Okay, and finally, I'm honored to be a part of this magnificent edifice carved into rock along with Woody Harrelson, Snoop Dogg, and Willie Nelson.

Mount Cushmore, everybody.

Okay.

All right, he's the star of CW's pet and seller, Fool Us and author of the bestseller, Presto, How I Made Over 100 Pounds Disappear, and Other Magical Tales.

Pendillette!

There he is.

Smelt.

Smelt and running.

Wow.

You have lost a lot of weight.

If you want a statue, win the goddamn war.

Yeah, there you go.

Actually, rather.

I was going to say, I'm rather glad they didn't.

I don't know.

That's a black person.

Also, when he says, does this lead to George Washington's statue being brought down?

Sure.

Take them all down.

I don't know why there should be statues of men on public property.

I mean, Jefferson was against that.

We're not supposed to be kings and people we look up to.

Let's all be equal.

Tear them all down.

All of them.

And if

they had slaves, tear down their state on the statues.

I'm fine with that.

Not even Gandhi, if we had a statue of him.

I'm okay with Gandhi and John Coltrane.

End of the list.

He's from North Carolina.

Why not?

Well, that's, you know what?

You're a shy man.

I've always been fascinated by your politics.

You know, I commend you because I know you didn't like Hillary Clinton.

I did.

You're a libertarian, but you voted for it.

That's what a mature person does.

A mature person

learns the lesson that they taught me at the SATs, choose the best answer.

There is not a perfect answer.

And I have said a million times, if you keep voting for the lesser of two evils, things just keep getting more evil.

And I believe that very, very strongly.

But when it finally came down to the actual moment, I know Donald Trump.

And whatever you think about Donald Trump, he's worse than him.

But wait, you're, you're.

You're

actually wrong.

When you vote for the lesser of two evils, things get less evil.

Well, yeah, but in the long run, they get more evil.

But, you know, the thing that I've done.

Glad I proved that point.

Okay.

The thing that really struck me is listening to Al Franken, listening to everybody out here, a year ago, I would have had a zillion things to disagree with Al Franken about.

Now that we're here in Trump, I don't think Al and I could talk for three hours before we got to one point we disagreed on.

It's changed everything.

Are you not a libertarian anymore?

I am, but still, there's so many, there's a triage thing happening.

Trump is so terrible.

You know, I was with Glenn, you know, Glenn Beck's a buddy of mine, and we always argue.

I disagree with Glenn Beck on everything.

After Trump was elected, I saw Glenn, I sat down with him and said, do we disagree with anything now?

He said, no, we don't disagree on anything.

Trump is terrible.

It's the end of the world.

We're done.

But, you know, as someone who has been, I guess in 1994 or something, I said something about libertarianism.

And ever since they've been, Bill, you're not a real libertarian.

I'm like, you're right.

I'm not a real libertarian.

I believe in smoking pot, and that's about it.

But you are a real libertarian.

And I believe in not smoking pot, but I believe you should be able to.

Well, thanks so much.

Now that it's legal.

Yeah.

He was out for it before Ed Borough was poor.

He was

in gay marriage, too.

I am the only person who has never, ever had a puff of marijuana who's been on the cover of High Times Magazine.

That was true, because I was so in favor of it the whole time.

That's because they're very high over there, High Times Magazine.

You can know the difference.

I don't know what they're doing.

But libertarianism.

Okay.

My problem with it is it goes too far.

I know you hosted the debate at the 2016 Libertarian Convention.

Look, I was against suing the tobacco company, so I go with you that far.

Like, people have to be responsible.

But when it comes to lead in the water, pesticides in the food, I mean, look at all the weight you lost.

You probably ate good food.

I did.

Okay, well, without government help, you're not going to be able to even know what good food is.

Libertarian

is not an anarchist, not against all government.

I think that it has to be done on a case-by-case basis.

And I have one basic question I ask, which is any problem that you have, I like to ask the question, is there any way we can solve this

with more freedom instead of less?

And sometimes the answer is no.

Sometimes the answer is no.

And I also think when, as soon as you say you're a libertarian, the first thing they say is, you want to get rid of all public schools schools and you want

no food being regulated whatsoever, no water being regulated.

No, the first thing you want to get rid of is crony capitalism.

The first thing you want to get rid of is those kinds of payoffs.

The first thing you want to get rid of is the bloated government where people like Trump are finding ways to game the system.

And once we get all of that out of the way, then we can discuss is there a better way to maybe make the government a little leaner?

That's it.

But it's not starting.

That all sounds like common sense.

I guess, yeah.

But we're getting to get, you know, there's a lot.

Now I'm going to say something that you may actually hit me for.

There's a lot of good.

He's not a violent guy.

He's not a violent guy.

There's a lot of good that's going to come out of Trump being president.

One thing is we will rein in the power of the president.

We have an absolute full-blown, dangerous whack job.

And now we're learning how to give less power.

The other thing is we have now proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there's no Illuminati, there's no elders of Zion, there's no Area 51.

That's very true.

Because if any of those people were in charge, they would stop this motherfucker.

Right, that's so true.

That's right.

There are the elders of Zion.

Right.

Where's the trilateral connection?

They're not there.

I was sure that he became president.

Yes.

Somebody would say, listen, you became president.

Right.

Here's what we're really going to do, or you're going to need an embolism in your sleep.

Right.

It's a simplified.

But now it turns out you've got to be president.

There's nobody stopping you.

And that's a good thing to find out.

And that is a great thing to find out.

That's actual freedom.

Isn't that good?

Yeah, we have to find it out this week.

Yes, I mean, I hope you're right about something good will come out of the Trump presidency.

And I hope

soon.

And Gavin,

we're talking about Russia.

This is what all the liberals are hoping for, is that the Russia investigation is going to be the thing that ousts this president.

But you said it's a loser as an issue.

As an issue for the Democratic Party.

Look,

and let me explain why.

That bothers me.

No,

look, I think it's the issue of cyber security, the issue of the sanctity of our elections.

This is very serious, and this investigation is extraordinarily serious.

And without the confidence of Mueller, I have zero confidence that these five independent committees in Congress would actually get the job done.

So absolutely unequivocally, we need to get to the bottom of it.

What I was saying, and it's an important point, is if you game this thing out and you get rid of Trump, you're left with a problem.

And that's Mike Pence, who actually can actually

consult.

Number two, even if this thing goes down...

Do you really believe that Mike Pence is as bad as Trump?

Well,

from a legislative perspective of actually accomplishing so many of these quote-unquote conservative goals and ends.

But Bill, here's my bigger point.

My bigger point is not that.

We have to have absolute accountability on Russia, but the bigger point is Democratic Party right now.

We're in trouble.

And with all due respect, being in opposition of Donald Trump and focusing on emollients and focusing on Russia may be important, but we also have to have a positive alternative agenda.

Before the Russian issue, we lost close to a thousand state legislative seats.

We're now at the lowest point we've been since 2001.

What's the positive Democratic agenda?

What's the bottom-up agenda?

You have 196 people suing Trump on emollients.

That's great, but you only have 116 supporting Medicare for all.

That's not so good.

So we we need an aggressive, positive alternative.

So from a bottom-up perspective, a Democratic Party getting back to majority and getting back on top, this can't consume us as profoundly significant, as important as it may be.

Gavin, I would have to agree with you and

know if he persuades the Democratic Party that Republicans will be in trouble if the Democrats start focusing on economic issues, which was the number one issue.

What would the Republicans be saying if it was a Democrat in office who would allow the Russians to be able to do it?

You're right about that.

You're right about that.

Well, and the question is.

No, no, no, no, no, no.

But you're not wrong about that.

No, but hold on.

The fact that the Democrats have not been able to prosecute this case against a president who's friendly with Nazis and Russians.

But hold on.

Hold on, let me ask you this.

You asked, what would Republicans be doing?

Well, I remember when back in the old politically incorrect days, we saw what Republicans were doing.

They were trying to impeach Bill Bill Clinton.

And what happened?

They lost the majority, or they lost seats rather, in the House.

New Cangaris ceased being Speaker of the House.

You're equating a blowjob with treason.

No, no.

No, hold on, let me make sure he answered.

What I am equating is that when one party goes down this obsessive partisan road, goes down.

I get it.

Oh, boy.

I get it.

Unbelievable.

Very good.

Finish your thought.

Go ahead.

I see what you're doing.

Uh-huh.

Yeah.

Right.

When they focus

on a narrow partisan issue that seems to be trying to overturn the results of an election, that voters don't like it.

And I don't think it's good for the Democrats to be doing it.

And it certainly was not good for the Republicans.

It depends on what the guy did.

We are but, Bill, but the point is: hold on, we have a special prosecutor,

we have a grand jury that's being convened, we do have five at least committed, they're all Republican-controlled, so that's why I've come to the process.

I'm just talking about the process.

But that's the process, I'm talking about the political side.

I'm talking about what the

I said this last week: the Republicans wouldn't be waiting for what Robert Mueller says officially.

They would be saying,

This guy is a traitor, he let our lifelong adversary into our system, and also, also, what's the plan?

What's the plan?

And it's an ongoing thing.

What is the demand?

What is the plan?

You're telling me you don't think the Democrats are talking about this?

It's all they talk about.

Oh, please.

Max Lee Waters is talking about impeachment.

They're not constantly

Democrats who are trying to draft articles of impeachment.

If they were talking about it the right way, they would be saying, by the way, Trump and his son are traitors who are trying to take away your health.

You don't want to political

side of the lie.

We know that's true, but let's get the investigation and get the proof.

Also, we're seeing issues.

Again, not what the Republicans would do.

Let's wait for the final vote to come in.

No.

Is that what they did with Benghazi?

But as a power.

Let's wait for all the facts.

No, they made it an issue for four years, and it was a non-issue.

Are you actually advising the Democratic Party to focus on this as their winning issue for the midterm in 2018?

Absolutely.

There is no bigger issue than Russia, Russia, coming into our election.

I get it.

Yeah, Bill, no, no, I get it.

The difference between walk and chew gum.

We can do both things.

Look, I'll tell you, I just did two town halls this week.

I've done a dozen of them.

I've met with thousands of folks.

God is my witness, not one human being anywhere I've gone has asked me about this.

You know what?

But they're asking me about this.

And that's the difference between Republicans and Democrats.

It could be.

Democrats follow the polls and Republicans change them.

Republicans go, oh,

you thought John Kerry was a war hero because he was a hero in a war?

No, he wasn't.

Oh, you thought Russia was our enemy?

No, they're our friend.

They changed the polling.

You're right about that.

Well, if you were to actually look at the polling right now, I'm sure Republicans would dream of trying to change the polling.

I mean, their approvals are low, the president's approvals are low, Congress is even lower.

I mean, I'm not sure where this magical power you're talking about that Republicans have, when they look at the polls, they actually see a big disaster in front of them.

Somebody once said to Dick Cheney in an interview, the Iraq war is not very popular, and he said, so.

That's their attitude.

Well, that was his attitude toward governance.

We're going to make these decisions.

These guys know how to win at all costs.

What you're suggesting is a separate issue, and I completely agree with it.

These guys don't screw around.

They know how to use money.

They know how to use the media, as you pointed out.

They know how to use gerrymandering.

They know how to win at all costs.

They're not about noble defeats.

I agree with that.

At the same time, it's an and, not an or.

And I dare, I promise you, if we exclusively focus on that, we're in real trouble because the party's already in trouble

for this last election.

But I'm talking to a guy who was for gay marriage and pot legalization before it was popular.

I appreciate that.

Yeah.

No, I appreciate that.

I appreciate that.

So does my gay lover, Pen Jack, let me tell you.

And I'm about accountability.

And if there's any collusion, we've got to hold them accountable.

We've got to impeach them.

And you've got to lean in on that.

You've got to make sure this prosecution goes forward and the grand jury is convened and we've got to make sure we get all the facts.

I couldn't agree with you more.

Can I just say that Mike Pence is not worse than Donald Trump?

Mike Pence is not a Russian spy.

Mike Pence doesn't poop tweet at 3 in the morning.

He also knows a little bit more about how to do things.

And the only good thing about Trump is

the pathological optimist,

the only good thing about Trump is he's getting really nothing done.

He's saying horrible things and filling people with hate, but he's not getting much done.

And that is actually

if he knew what he was doing, it would be terrible.

Hold on, that's not great news.

That's not great news.

Great news, maybe we're overstating it.

Right.

When you have Obamacare

running into trouble, it does need to be performed.

Even Democrats agree with that.

So it is not great news when we're not tackling the problems that are in front of us.

And I think that's part of where

Republicans and conservatives are with Donald Trump.

Whatever their disagreements, they don't think that

being frozen in place is great for this.

No, no, but I was saying for those who didn't agree with the Republicans, it's great he's not getting something done.

What I'm afraid about is that Pence might get things done.

We've lived through Mike Pence.

It was called George Bush.

Okay, it's not good, but...

Right, it wasn't good.

But if you think it's the same, if you think it's the same as a completely insane narcissist who might fire nuclear weapons, it's a difference.

I mean, this is a guy who supports conversion therapy.

He wants to pray away the game to conserve.

Like, that's going to be a law.

But I'm just going to say, well, it could be.

But let me back to nuclear weapons.

Let me challenge, though, another paradigm here, which I think we have to be very careful.

That Trump hasn't been effective because we're not, I think, keeping our eye on the ball.

What comes up in every town hall I talk about is the effectiveness of Jeff Sessions as it relates to reconstituting the war on drugs, asset forfeiture, seizures, issues of the Department of Justice as it relates to voter suppression, the Texas ID laws, voter purges as it relates to what's happening in Ohio.

There's There's a lot of things happening in Ohio.

I got it, I got it.

We've got to be careful.

Those aren't things that Pennsylvania's serious things.

Those aren't things Peters would be.

Very serious.

Very serious.

Got to be careful.

All true.

And the president is a Nazi.

Anyway, time for new rules.

That's my fight.

All true, but the president's a Nazi.

That's all I've got.

When you've ever said that, and it's probably true.

All right.

New rule, white nationals have to explain why their Tinder profile pictures look like this.

But when they they show up, they look like this.

Neural, now that Amazon is pioneering instant pickup, a service that allows customers to go out and physically get the things they buy, someone has to tell them that they just invented the store.

Neural, guys who figured out how to send women unsolicited dick pics using iPhone.

You getting a lot of them, Amy?

Of course.

Using iPhone.

Okay, fine.

Using, shut up, everybody.

This is my part of the show.

Sorry.

Go back to the beginning of this one.

New rule, guys who figured out how to send women unsolicited dick pics using iPhone's airdrop feature must tell us if that ever worked once.

Then they must man up, buy a raincoat, and do it for real.

Exactly.

People flashing people.

We are losing a sense of human contact.

Not everything is taking place on a screen.

Doesn't anyone have the balls to show their balls anymore?

New role to raise money.

America must hold a national lottery to see who gets to tell this asshole that he's about to go live with a whole bunch of black people.

New rule, remember to flush.

This guy didn't after taking a dump at a home he burglarized.

So police got a DNA sample, looked it up in the database, and then went to his house and arrested him.

And he asked them, how'd you get me?

Fingerprints?

Security camera?

And they told him, no.

Shit, Sherlock.

And finally, new rules, sometimes bipartisanship isn't the solution.

It's the problem.

You might be surprised at how many times the far left and the far right, otherwise known as the right,

actually work together to make a problem worse.

For example, they both resist globalization.

The far left because it can exploit workers, the far right because their country music station switched to Mexican.

Right and left have bonded in believing 9-11 was an inside job.

Somehow a leftist like Oliver Stone and a wannabe dictator like Trump both think Putin is a great guy.

And then there's something I like to call the bipartisan pro-fat movement.

Despite the fact that obesity accounts for 18% of the deaths in America and a huge huge chunk of our health care bill, and is the main reason people wear sweatpants in public.

I love sweatpants.

I'm working now.

Shut the fuck up, everybody.

Also makes it easy for dick kids.

Gone.

Sweatpants make it easy.

In liberal circles, the worst thing anyone can ever do is mention weight, because that's fat shaming.

And to conservatives, any attempt to even offer guidelines about what to eat, well, that smells like social social engineering, as opposed to freedom, which smells like bacon.

Now, you remember, the right was infuriated back when First Lady Michelle Obama was trying to impose her radical Black Panther agenda of

encouraging kids to eat healthy.

Sarah Palin went so far as to defiantly show up at a school with plates of sugar cookies.

That'll teach you kids to eat a carrot.

How did vegetables get to be un-American?

Okay, super patriots, eat what you want, but

let's get real.

These colors don't run because these colors can't run.

But

the rotund right is not alone in promoting tolerance of a national health crisis.

Back when they both had jobs, Steve Bannon was asked why Sean Spicer was spending less time in front of the camera, and he joked, oh, well, Sean got fatter.

Okay, not the greatest joke ever, but a joke.

Not to Chelsea Clinton, it wasn't.

She tweeted, fat shaming isn't a joke I find funny ever.

Oh, Christ, even your mom knew when to fake a laugh.

I'm sorry, but pretending everyone is beautiful at any size is not helping them, it's enabling them.

But among the shaming police, the most important message you can ever send an obese person is that your body is perfect just the way it is, prone on a gurney.

You know I'm right, fuckers.

You see headlines on liberal websites like body positivity has no size limit.

Really?

No limit at all?

There's no middle ground between shaming and shamu?

But wait, it gets worse.

Not only are left and right united on what goes in your mouth, they've also declared open season on the words that come out of it.

Free speech is under attack from both sides.

You have Trump, who says fake news so many times a day, it's like he has totalitarian Tourette's.

A president, an American president, calling the fourth estate the enemy.

He's also called them scum, disgusting, really bad people.

And he wants to change libel laws so he can go after people who insult him and, in his words, sue them and win lots of money.

He tried it with me.

four years ago to the tune of five million dollars simply because I demanded he produce, you remember this, his birth certificate and prove he wasn't part orange-haired orangutan.

I mean

a lot of people was saying it.

A lot of people was saying it.

And then there's what's going on on the left.

Oh, we have our own anti-free speech brigade, which you might know by their other name, College,

where the most popular major these days is Outrage, with a minor in canceling speaking engagements.

Berkeley was the home of the free speech movement, now it's enforcing speaking bans.

That's like the Catholic Church enforcing an age of consent.

So there you have it.

Next time someone pines for bipartisanship, just remember, when people of goodwill come together across the aisle, we can fuck up anything.

All right, that's our show.

I'll be at the Mirage in Vegas September 8th and 9th.

I want to thank Gavin Newsom, Amy Holmes, Penjilana, and Al Flake.

And join us now on Overtime on YouTube.

Thank you, folks.

Catch all new episodes of Real Time with Bill Maher every Friday night at 10, or watch him anytime on HBO On Demand.

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