"Marc Maron"

When you want the group trip to make it out-of-the-group chat, you'd be surprised at the unexpected stays Hilton has to offer.

Imagine stargazing from the comfort of a customized airstream with Hilton's auto camp partnership, unwinding in a rainforest retreat with their small luxury hotels of the world partnership, appreciating the artistry of Nomad London, or reliving your college days with Graduate by Hilton.

Hilton brings you new, unforgettable stays with your favorite people.

Explore all the new ways to stay at Hilton.com.

Hilton for the stay.

Nature's Bounty is the life hack we've all been needing.

Nature's Bounty has a bounty of solutions to supplement your health and wellness.

High absorption magnesium glycinate supports your whole body health, including muscle relaxation and heart and bone health.

New beets and CoQ10 gummies support healthy circulation and heart function.

And new probiotic gummies contain prebiotics and postbiotics for gut health, regularity, and immune health in just one gummy per day.

All the biotics.

Nature's Bounty.

It's in your nature.

Learn more at naturesbounty.com.

These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration.

These products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.

Today's episode is sponsored by Ashley.

They don't just sell incredible furniture, they're also making an impact in vulnerable communities.

Here's a tough fact.

Over 7 million kids are affected by the welfare system and over 368,000 are currently in foster care.

So, together with Ashley and SiriusXM, we made a donation to four others, an organization working to end the child welfare crisis in America.

You know, partnering with Ashley in our live show, first of all, they just made our set look really good.

They made us really comfortable.

And they kind of made us look legit because otherwise it would have been, you know, milk crates and, you know, cardboard boxes.

And Ashley made it look like a real, kind of looked like a living room, made it really comfortable, made our guest, John Mayer, really comfortable.

And then he thought that maybe we were professional.

We're not just a bunch of clowns.

To be honest, there was a point where I got so comfortable, I forgot that I was in front of an audience.

I was sitting back on that nice Ashley couch and I was just hanging out with my buds in my living room.

Anyway, Ashley offers timeless, well-crafted furniture with white glove delivery right to your door.

Visit your local Ashley store or head to Ashley.com to find your style.

I got a good dad joke for the day.

You're going to start us with a dad joke today instead of ending the job.

Yeah, I just had a cold open.

This is the beginning.

Okay.

this is okay.

Let's try

the format switch here, listener.

Let's hear it.

How much room is needed for fungi to grow?

Oh boy, you tell me.

As much room as possible.

Welcome.

Welcome, Lisman.

Smart.

Sean, you have any opening bits?

I do.

I do have something to share.

What happened today?

Consult your sheet.

I have no sheets.

Really?

I have no sheets.

You give no sheet?

I give no sheet.

I don't give no sheet.

But first of all, Jason, you are, well, I can't wait for you to come visit, but you are so lucky, Jason.

Today in London and tomorrow, it's like the hottest.

No exaggeration, like 100 degrees.

Right.

right and then the day I get there and then they get there it's 72.

I literally just looked at that on the on the way to this you're so lucky it's now how many days are you how many days are you guys are you spending over there with Sean in in London Sean just three just three just three I love that Jason doesn't even know I know I go where I'm fucking told in fact I'm waiting for my wife to

help give me notes on packing yeah you know does she make you a list of what you should pack like you're taxed she tries but her big her big move always is to just kind of walk walk up behind me while I'm starting to pack and say pleasantly, hey, would you like some help?

And I say, no, no, I'm set.

Thank you.

I got it.

And then she'll just stand there and she'll watch me.

Say, I don't need any help.

No, no, I know.

I'm just checking.

And then she'll just start to like lob, quote, suggestions.

And so she ends up packing and controlling.

What is she worried about, do you think?

Is she worried that you're not going to have the right thing for the right city?

I don't think she's ever worried about anything.

I think just her happy place is having just kind of like a

hand on all sorry hand on things.

So you both know this better than I do.

She talks to both of you more than she talks to me.

That's true.

That's true.

So

I actually know more about your trip than you do.

Yes.

So tell me, when am I leaving?

I don't know.

I know

you're leaving tomorrow?

Tomorrow night.

Yeah.

Tomorrow night.

Tomorrow night.

Tomorrow.

How do you feel about it, Jason?

Do you get excited about traveling?

I can't stand it.

I don't understand the concept of leaving the nest that you have deliberately created with all your favorite things to the extent you can get them right around you and in the right sense.

I'm super excited to see you too.

Yeah.

I just don't understand.

I mean, but you know, like the concept of leaving a place that you're comfortable to go to a place that's completely foreign to you, I get the whole cultural reach and

exposure to

the things.

But yeah, I mean, there's we mean it.

There's tons of stuff to do here.

No, there's tons of stuff stuff to do in London, but not in the city.

This is what makes you, this is kind of, should feed your brain and feed your soul and go to different places and see different things from.

That's, look, I don't want to get into it.

It's kind of the problem with America a little bit.

Listen, East Hampton, tell us about what

fucking thing.

I go to Sag Harbor.

I was there this morning.

Can I, were you really?

Yeah, I rode my bike to the hardware store.

Wait, you rode your bike from East Hampton to Sag Harbor.

No, I did not.

I didn't do that.

It was too hard.

That sounds too too hard.

I felt very chory today.

Like, I rode my bike into town.

I talked to some police officers, said hi to them.

They were dealing with an issue.

Apparently, there was a dog issue.

Not kidding.

Was a dog stuck in a tree?

No, like somebody complaining that somebody else had left their dog outside, but it was in a sunny area and was mad and called the East Hampton police.

And there's not proper shade for this animal.

Yeah.

And these cops were so diplomatic about it because they're just like,

what are we dealing with?

What are we talking about?

You know what I mean?

So they were nice about it.

What would that be like getting

no, no, no, no shade, pun intended being thrown on Hampton cops.

But

when you decide you want to be a police officer, what is that?

Do you say, oh, I want to be a police officer in the Hamptons because you love the town or because you just don't want, you don't want the heat?

You don't want the nonsense.

You don't want a lot of crime?

I think a lot of them grow.

A lot of the officers I've talked to are local, like grew up here.

And I gotta say i honestly to a person every one of them that i've ever talked to and met has been super super nice and that's not shocking yeah yeah no they've been really really nice and they yeah and and that's kind of the consensus they're super responsive and imagine the personalities they have to deal with out here oh yes imagine and they're trying to they're trying to nab those little girls running lemonade stands that are skimming right they got to watch out for them

um

like what what's their beat skimming their beat is they do everything you know they deal with a lot of of, unfortunately, there are a lot of issues that happen here.

People come on vacation here, so a lot of people feel like no rules.

A lot of people drink and drive, which is a terrible thing.

It's my worst, honestly, kind of, if it's not to get too dark, but the thing I like, the sound I like the least is the sound of, obviously, an ambulance at night.

And you'll hear it late at night, because especially if it was somewhere way down the, you know, way.

at the end of the island and that you know that there's been some terrible accident.

You read about it in the local paper the next day.

And it's just absolutely heartbreaking.

It's

terrible.

terrible absolutely heartbreaking it breaks my heart so it's such a small town everybody knows everything yeah and but also just like you know because people feel like oh well um i'm just gonna have four glasses of wine and get behind the wheel of my fucking rolls or whatever

you know and it's sad it's really really sad but also you know has there been festivities for the uh the big jaws anniversary out there isn't that where where they were where they supposedly shot the film no that was martha's vineyard though well that's close though right right right But

I did see

a couple days ago a whale breach about 100 yards off the beach.

It was unbelievable.

Wait, does that mean jump up and slam down to a belly flop?

Yeah.

Like a massive, like just

a moment.

Are you sure that wasn't fill-in-the-blank joke here?

What fat person you want to take a run at, Sean?

Yeah, I mean, who.

Go ahead.

You can fill in the blank.

God bless, no.

Oh, God.

But I did assume that.

Sean, you talk about breaching every time you have Sloppy Joe, don't you?

You always like when you're making a run for it.

We got a breach.

Wait, but I do have a really quick medical thing happening.

Or do you want me to wait till later?

No, give us some of your coffee chat stuff.

So today, because I'm not feeling well, and so I woke with a sore throat and whatever.

So I went to the...

Wait, maybe there's something wrong with your C-PAP.

No, I didn't bring it.

What?

I didn't bring it.

What?

Truly?

No.

Truly.

Wait, I don't understand.

Hold on a second.

Don't you.

Because I'm going to sleep on my side or I sleep up now.

I can't deal with it.

And what do you do?

Just get like duct taped into position?

Hey, but wait, I've seen a commercial for a guy.

He's in a sleep.

Let's lock him up.

It's downtime.

Yeah, there's a guy that's in a circle, like a support group for CPAP dudes, and they're all wearing different flavors of CPAPs.

And they come to him.

And he's just got a clicker.

He's got a clap.

flavored.

Is yours flavored?

He's just got a clicker in his hand and he doesn't have to wear the hose.

And so what is that?

Have you looked into that?

No, I'm not.

I have no idea what you just said.

The dude looks pretty great and you can avoid the duct tape.

Anyway,

you have it flavored like a watermelon flavor.

You know what I mean?

Just like a little bit, well, that would be, yeah, that would be, that would make it better.

Anyway, anyway, all of my voices.

So you're saying that.

So I go to this doctor at this place and that was recommended.

She was fantastic.

And she, so I go in, and I've never, it must be an English thing.

I go and she's like, Okay, take your clothes off.

And Scotty's sitting there with me.

And I was like, Sorry?

And she goes, Well, I got to check.

I got to check you out.

And I was like, Wait, sorry, this is what you just take my shirt off.

This is for CPAPing.

No, this is just, I'm, I have a sore throat.

So it's just like, yeah, she just wants to check out.

Sore throat after one night, you go to the doctor.

Well, because they're going to go in the other way to make sure that it's not, that it doesn't go.

They got to make sure both ends are.

Does this person have an office or is it something with wheels?

This is in the park.

Sorry, one more time.

Carry on.

It's next to the ice cream truck.

So

I go in there and she needed to check me out because I'm a new patient, right, in England, right?

And she was sure.

So I go in there.

She asked me, I go, you want me to take my shirt off?

She's like, yeah, and I go, my pants too.

She goes, yeah.

So I was like, this is so weird.

And so I lay down flat.

Frankly, it's just a drawstring at all times.

So I lay down and she's, you know, she's the tap on the thing and the tap on the chest and everything.

She's checking my thing.

And then she's fully clothed right now, right?

She's totally fully clothed.

She lifts up my underwear and just goes, all right, I just need to chuck out a testicle.

She grabs my balls

under your underwear.

She does, yes.

She grabs them with her bare hands.

And I was like, wow, what?

Was she able to see through the dust?

Did she snap a glove on, at least?

I don't remember.

I think she had.

You went into a blackout.

Yeah, I did.

I couldn't believe it.

I couldn't believe it.

And so what was the prognosis?

No, it's fine.

I'm just on antibiotics.

Oh, Scotty, heartbroken.

I'm straight.

Yeah.

That's the prognosis.

So just a sore throat, you'll be fine?

Yeah, I'm on antibiotics now.

I mean, wow.

Okay.

Why does she have to feel my ball?

That's a story.

Anyway, go ahead.

I just thought that was really odd.

Like, I've never had a Hey Jay, listen.

You got something to look forward to tomorrow night.

You're going to get a sore throat when you get to London.

I'll be doctor.

I'll play the doctor.

Oh, you know the

drill now.

So don't be surprised.

Did you get like a bulk visit type of thing?

Is there a punch card that I can use one of those?

You know, for your free visits?

Yeah, I'm practically going tomorrow again.

All right.

Guys, today, our guest.

Oh, it's Jason.

Your guest.

Yes, sir.

Today, our guest is an an actor, a comedian, a radio host, and a pioneer in podcasting.

In fact, without him, we wouldn't be here.

Having released over 1,600 episodes, 600 million downloads.

It's a 16-year run.

He has decided to put it to rest to move it onto WTF.

WTF.

Here to tell us how he did it and hopefully how we can suck a little bit less is the goat himself, Mr.

Will?

Mark Maron.

Mark Marin.

Please, Mark, reveal yourself.

So we didn't need to send you a microphone.

Is Is that right?

When you said we wouldn't be here without, I was immediately, I was like, it's Mark Marin.

Yeah.

It's not Dak Shepard, although we appreciate.

You mean Dak Shepard Marin?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Wait, are you the dad?

We found him.

On some level, I'm the dad.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You are the dad.

I'm the goat.

Yes.

This is awesome.

This is awesome.

I'm using my own microphone, but thank you for sending me the one I'll never use.

Did we really send you one?

Yeah, they sent me one.

They were panicked, I guess.

They were like, no, no, no.

Mark doesn't seem to know what he's doing.

Well, they heard you were done with your podcast, so they sent him.

Yeah, so they sent me one of these.

Of all these gifts,

Bennett, Rob, turn your mics on.

What are you doing?

Why are you sending a microphone?

I'll send one to Mark Merritt.

You were giving misinformation.

It's like sending a hockey stick to Wayne Gretzky.

Like, what are you doing?

When I got it, I was like, are you fucking kidding me?

What am I going to?

I guess I'll use this.

You know what it is?

It's our start gift.

I appreciate it.

We used to send them out during COVID, but

we weren't as generous.

We'd put them in a self, you know, you could send it back to us when you were done using it.

Sure.

Well, we're just silly over here.

Well,

it's been great.

I was listening to the opening.

It's, you know, exploring the dark side of luxury problems.

Oh, yeah.

Super relatable.

That's what we are.

We try to stay as unrelatable as possible, and I think we're doing swimmingly.

Exciting medical story.

I enjoyed that.

It reminded me of when I was coming up as a comic, you always had to do morning radio and you'd be sitting there, you know, waiting for a break before you'd go in with this morning crew just figuring out a way in, you know, hearing what they're talking about and just panicking.

Like, I got a story on that.

I'm going to start with that.

That is the thing that I worry about with this, with this.

silly thing, whatever we're fucking doing, is that it's too...

But

it's like morning zoo or whatever, like whack.

Even when we get into the questions and the stuff, like, I don't want to be like a guy who's like obnoxious and always just waiting for the answer that I can make fun of.

That ship is sailing.

Sorry, buddy.

It's supposed to be a conversation.

Oh, no.

Morning zoo.

I think that's what the medium has sort of birthed

just 100,000 mediocre afternoon drive-time radio hosts.

I mean, right?

It's true.

Anytime I scroll on my phone on Instagram reels, it's like three or four white guys talking about the last time they shit their pants as adults.

That's us.

I'll listen to that.

I listen to that.

Mark, Todd.

Totally true.

I know.

In fact, I think I've told that story, maybe it's either on yours or on Dax's.

But great, talk to us about that.

Like,

can you reflect?

And we'll probably ask you a few times during this about that.

Like

what you started is

obviously it's an enormous business and

path to employment for a lot of folks nowadays.

So we collectively can thank you for that.

But how do you feel that it's, are you proud of this sort of industry that you've created or is there blood on your hands yeah well i don't think i don't think uh well you know it's once you create the bomb you know you kind of wash your hands of it like

you're you're oppenheimer man you're rubber oppenhead you know what i mean yeah but it's morphed away from something that was really uh uh uh you know this one-hour conversation or longer that i mean obviously rogan still does that dax does it but it's oh they do like three hours jesus i don't know it's hard in that shit but um it's hard to do that really well well of course how I don't think that there was a single way to do this.

The only thing that I know in terms of starting it the way I did, I did it specifically the only way really I knew how and the way that my emotions guided me to do it.

And when we started it, there was no real podcast medium.

There was a few of them around.

It had been around a while.

And the way I did it, the way it evolved was just my style and kind of this idea of candid, authentic, vulnerable interviews.

I think it created a zone through which some people could do that.

But I mean, it got more interesting when people were doing full-scale radio shows or crime shows or multi-miced guys.

There was never a format other than a mic.

So because I did it the way I did it, even when you guys, or at least two of you, sorry, Sean, I'm sorry.

Joint, just pile on.

But, you know, when people were coming to my house, it was like, you know, where am I?

What neighborhood is this?

What are we doing?

Is there a camera?

And it was really, there was nothing binding me to any sort of style or context.

But I think because of the reason my timing was good cosmically for once in my life, that it took off.

So this was one way to do it.

And I think if anything, my particular way of doing it made a lot of people think, you know, like if that idiot can do it, you know, I'm getting mics.

So

but also you have to, well, first of all, you brought up, I mean,

you're a comic and you've been a comic for a long time.

You've been doing it at the highest level for a long time.

So you know what you're doing.

You're a funny dude and you have to be able to move it along.

We're lucky it took three of us to do what you did by yourself.

True.

Yeah, exactly.

I guess, but the one thing that I was excited about was I wasn't beholden to that.

You know, I'd done some time on radio, and once I learned how to talk on a mic by myself for long periods of time, that was a pretty big breakthrough.

So that kind of served me.

in the podcast realm.

But a lot of my monologues are not really funny.

They're pretty honest and they're pretty visceral and they are directly related to my life and it gets deeper and sometimes and others.

But I wasn't beholden to comedy.

So what for me, what it really became was engaging with a person without a real plan to see if we could get a conversation going and figure out where we met in terms of our issues, our problems, our lives and whatnot.

So what I was really sort of hoping for was connection.

And that's really what I think made what I do kind of different.

Yeah.

That there, there is no situation.

But you did so many firsts.

I remember a couple of things that stick out that I remember.

I remember hearing before I listened, hearing that you got Obama on was really huge.

I remember everybody was freaking out about it.

Like that was the first time somebody had done something like that, gotten a president to come on the thing.

And then you did the live shows, too, of which I did one of them actually in Brooklyn at the Bell

as well.

In addition to the going to your house.

And that was like, I was like, I remember you getting the call saying like, Mark's doing this thing at the bell of this live in the pie.

I was like, what could that be?

It was different.

Yeah, and it was different.

It was cool.

I was like, oh, okay.

But the reason for that really was, you know, Obama was later, but the live ones, there was no way to make money doing this, you know, at the beginning.

There was literally no way.

I mean, there, you know, advertisers weren't forthcoming.

You know, we were using kind of old terrestrial radio middlemen to get like sex toy ads and Audible.

Yeah, our first ads were like Adam and Eve.

You know, you'd get a free package of God knows what.

And you had this other advertiser from an older show we did, Just Coffee, but there was no way to generate income.

And unless you wanted to sort of do a, you know, pay to listen kind of thing, but then you wouldn't build an audience.

So the live shows were things we did separately and we created a different website so people would pay for them.

There's no way to make money.

So the live shows were kind of an income generating thing.

thing.

I mean, at the beginning of this thing, in my old house, we were just doing a tiered donation thing.

This was before, uh wow you know what's that platform where everyone you you get paid on uh go fund meers uh yeah it would not go fund me the other one where you have a site where people can pay whatever

everyone has them patreon only fans yeah patreon so there was no patreon yeah so at the beginning we just offered tiered donations and if you you gave a certain amount of money i'd send you a t-shirt and some stickers and my house was filled with a thousand envelopes you know stuffing t-shirts because there's no way to make money oh my god i remember

i remember your assistant there working at a table just fucking stuffing envelopes yeah yeah that's right that's right it was it was crazy but the obama thing that was a whole other thing but i mean that was crazy in terms of the medium that kind of put it on the map yeah it kind of uh and how did that come about was

legitimized and that was a result of your numbers being such that his team took notice of you and and suggested recommended to him that this might be a good spot for him to hit i don't know if it was numbers per se as much as it was profile.

And I think that really it came down to then that there was a fan in the Ovo office.

I mean, an intern.

I don't know who it was.

Got it.

Right.

But they thought it would be good.

It was his last year, second term.

He didn't want to be a lame duck, I don't think.

And he thought it would be, or someone in his world thought it would be a good look to kind of do this.

And I remember when my producer, Brendan McDonald, was like, Obama wants to come on.

And I'm like, so what?

I'm going to the White House.

And he said, no, he's coming to Highland Park.

I'm like, that's fucking crazy.

Walk us through that project.

I always wanted to know that.

Because we had the opportunity of doing it with Biden.

But what was that like?

But we went to him and we went through all the protocols and stuff.

What was that like them coming to your neighborhood, to your house?

Completely unsecured.

It was crazy.

Well, at first, I had a trip planned and I rarely take vacations.

So I told my producer, I'm like, I don't know.

I'm supposed to go go to Hawaii.

He goes, no, you're not going anywhere.

So,

well, the thing was, you know, the first things we had to think about was the way we do the show, which is not a political show.

I mean, I can do that, but we had, we had, both of us had come out of Air America.

And from the beginning of the podcast, we were like, we're not doing a political show because I don't want to carry that water.

You can't really do politics with your own voice because you'll eventually end up just carrying whatever load it is of talking points for whatever party you're affiliated with.

But the thing was, is I like, we got to make it a personal interview.

You know, he did go to college down the street, at least for a couple of years.

He knows the neighborhood.

And we had to really structure it more than we did.

Which college did he go to around Highland Park?

Yeah, at Occidental.

Oh, right.

So, you know, we had to structure it.

Oh, so not on purpose.

No, we had to structure it in a way.

That was for Sean.

That was for Sean.

Occidental.

Sean loves that stuff.

Sorry, Mark.

Sorry, Mark.

Low-hanging fruit is still fruit for me.

I'm so sorry.

Okay.

Throw the baby some candy every once in a while.

We'll be right back.

Did you know skincare can start in the laundry room?

The first step of a sensitive skincare routine is choosing the right laundry detergent.

All-free clear is the number one detergent brand recommended by dermatologists for sensitive skin.

All-free clear is 100% free of dyes and fragrance allergens.

It provides an effective clean that's gentle on skin while removing impurities like dirt and body oil that can irritate your skin.

Made to fight stains and be gentle on your skin.

So for me, I didn't even know I had that sensitive of skin with my bed sheets.

I would get up in the middle of the night and be like, kind of scratchy, kind of itchy.

No idea why.

I used all-free clear.

It was awesome.

For an effective, skin-friendly clean, wash with all-free clear.

This show is sponsored by Liquid IV.

Summer's coming to an end, and I'm looking looking for different ways that I can soak up the last remaining rays of this beautiful summer.

And whether you're soaking up the last bits of summer like me or gearing up for those, you know, back to routine vibes, you got to capture sun-drenched memories with the Orange Vanilla Dream Hydration Multiplier from Liquid IV.

This nostalgic vanilla flavor with notes of candied orange, yeah, it can help you keep hydrated better than water alone.

It's powered by LIV HydroScience, an optimized ratio of electrolytes, essential vitamins, and clinically tested nutrients that turn ordinary water into extraordinary hydration.

I like stuff that's easy to do.

And guess what?

Liquid IV is super easy and convenient to just tear, pour, and enjoy.

And also knowing that I'm boosting my hydration when I do it makes me feel good even before the effects of it kind of kick in.

For me, I love that they're doing this orange vanilla dream because it reminds me of, it just gives me that sort of like summer vibes, like reminds me of being a kid again.

Save for the last bits of summer with Liquid IV.

Terra Poor, Live More.

Go to liquidiv.com and get 20% off your first order with code SMARTLIS at checkout.

That's 20% off your first order with code SMARTLIST at liquidiv.com.

This is an ad by BetterHelp.

Hmm.

Like a lot of people, I'm always on the lookout for

wellness and health content.

I'm looking for ways to better myself.

I don't know.

I think that I've had moments in my life where I've been, I felt overwhelmed and that has kind of, you know, overshadowed my decision making or clouded it potentially or just impacted in a certain way.

And

these days, it feels like there's advice for everything, cold plunges and gratitude journals, screen detoxes.

But how do you know what actually works for you?

With the internet and information overload about mental health and wellness, it can be a struggle to know what's true and what actions to take these days.

Using trusted resources and talking to live therapists can get you personalized recommendations and help you break through the noise.

With over 30,000 therapists worldwide, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally.

It's convenient too.

You can join a session with a therapist at the click of a button, plus, switch therapists at any time.

As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of expertise.

Talk it out with BetterHelp.

Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/slash Smartless.

That's better H-E-L-P.com/slash Smartless.

And now back to the show.

So, they come two weeks before, and they strip searching.

Here's what happens.

So, I end up going to Hawaii and

reading his book.

And in the meantime, Brendan, who is in Brooklyn generally, flew out to meet the Secret Service to create a perimeter.

And so, you get all these Secret Service guys at the house.

And apparently, you know, Brendan was in the garage and he had a couple of guys on the roof jumping on it to figure out whether they could, you know, post guys up there.

And Brendan was like, No, no, it's it's coming down.

Wow.

So

I had to ask my retired neighbor if we could put snipers on his roof.

And it was like the greatest thing that ever happened to him.

He was thrilled to be involved.

But, you know, the sort of the day of the one thing that was scary is they'd put some sort of weird humming black box in the one spare bedroom.

That was a small house, if you remember.

It was like less than a thousand square feet.

Do you remember the black box?

I remember the black box too.

Guys, remember when we tried to put our coffee on it?

And they said, don't touch that thing.

Why?

I don't remember.

when we were at the what it is, it's like if all communications break down, that thing has a line-in to some sort of, you know, a secret satellite network.

Right.

Oh, I see.

Wow.

So they got to put that in.

And

that was kind of the most menacing thing.

And I remember like the day of.

Wow.

So the day of, there was like at least 15, you know, Secret Service people.

And then we'd set up tables on the deck there.

It was my biggest fear was that that house had one toilet.

And I'm like, where's he going to go to the bathroom?

What if someone needs to go to the bathroom?

You know, I got to clean the bath, whatever.

So

we set up a table with listening stations for the

White House people, for Brendan, for whoever else needed them.

So there was like four or five sets of headphones out there.

And the amazing thing about Obama that he, there was no pre-interview.

We didn't have to get any approval of any questions.

He was completely confident and lucid, and he knew what was, you know, he knew what he was getting into.

But the funny thing was, is that the Secret Service is coming in with the dogs, and I got these cats.

And I'm like, hey, is there any way you can skip the house?

I got cats.

I'm going to put them in the bedroom.

But you trust me enough to leave the cats in the bedroom?

Now,

well, they said yes.

And they let me off the hook, but I don't know if that's going to get them in trouble, but I think they're probably out of the game anyways.

But anyway,

so we're waiting now.

And we're all in a waiting position.

My producer, he wore a sports jacket.

He's very proper food.

Yeah.

And all the Secret Service is there.

And I'm waiting outside.

And I say, how are we going to know they're coming?

And we'll give you a heads up when he's 20 minutes out.

So what he was doing, he was flying from Beverly Hills in the Air Force 2 or whatever, the helicopter, to the Rose Bowl to park there, which is about 10 minutes from my house.

So

they're like, well, that's better than stopping traffic in the entire fucking city of L.A.

So they said...

They'll go to Mark's garage.

Yeah, exactly.

They cleared the street of all cars.

Some neighbors were pissed.

The Republicans were pissed, but

the rational people were like, this is great.

They're going to line the streets.

So

they said, 20 minutes out, we'll tell you.

But then all of a sudden we see the helicopter.

There's two ospreys

that kind of fly in front of the helicopter.

And we could see them in the sky.

I'm like, all right, well, he's close.

So.

So I'm just waiting at the gate and

the motorcade pulls up and there's this flurry of people coming up my driveway.

I don't even see Obama.

And then I see him and he just, he's in the middle of this crowd.

He He waves like, Mark.

And I'm like, Mr.

President.

He walks up and he's like, are we going to have a good time?

I'm like, I don't know.

But then, you know, we go into the garage.

They only had one Secret Service guy, you know, at the door behind me.

They had some sort of flack mat.

That was another weird item that they actually left and I had to get back to them.

That kind of like, if there's an attack or something, it kind of pops up and protects him.

Wow.

But it was all, you know, it was intense.

And I just tried to, we had to cover some politics up front because there were things unfolding.

But then it was a fairly standard WTF interview.

And the funniest part about it was that when he sat down, you know,

I said, so you nervous?

And he said, you know, something like, if I was nervous about this, we'd all be in trouble.

Yeah.

He was pretty forthcoming, though, yeah?

Yeah.

Yeah, forthcoming enough.

You know,

he's a genuine person.

What he was was very, very disarming and very candid seeming and

willing and thoughtful.

But what's interesting is that it was better to do a personal interview with him because he is kind of wonky.

And if you get into politics, it can get a little long.

And we only had an hour.

So we were able to kind of

do it.

And then for some reason, he chose, I'm sure, very deliberately to say the N-word on my show.

And that, and that, yeah, in relation to, you know, he was like, you know, racism isn't over just because he can't say the N-word.

And he said it.

So that got, you know, a flurry of international news.

So I had to deal with, you know, news crews in front of my house.

But my, yeah, there aren't enough t-shirts and stickers to handle that.

Yeah.

But, but, but my producer was very calculating in terms of the press we did.

He's a very smart guy.

We, you know, we didn't engage with any of them.

We just did

Chris Hayes and we did Terry Gross, and that was it.

And I don't hear from Obama at all.

He's got my number, but, you know, I feel weird texting him.

But, you know, I mean, look, the fact that you, A, were able to book him says a lot about

the spirit and the content of your show.

But your ability to get him to do a personal interview and to get him to be forthcoming really speaks to sort of, I think, what makes you so great at what you do.

And are you comfortable trying to maybe kind of speak to that and maybe dissect that a little bit?

Because, you know, this one-hour conversation, you know,

there needed to be at some point a confidence from you about me just freestyling freestyling and then having somebody sit down and me just kind of pop back and forth with them and have a conversation as opposed to being an investigative journalist needs to be compelling and I need to assume that that's going to be entertaining.

What made you think that

your

your hot takes on things and your personal kind of the way in which you can drive a conversation would be something really compelling because it is.

Yeah, what gave you the right to think you could do Westmark?

When did that happen for you?

Just because I know you've spoken in the past about

whatever the right words would be about

your degrees of social comfort and

what fuels your stand-up and your cynicism and stuff, which I share with you.

Like a lot of that doesn't lend itself to being a conversationalist.

Do you know what I mean?

I think

how it evolved is that, you know, I am innately and almost immediately codependent with any personality that sits in front of me.

So it's just by virtue of my upbringing, I don't know what.

But

there was the way it sort of started, and this is one of the reasons why we're winding it down, is that I'm kind of all in no matter what I do.

My stand-up is provocative and personal and sometimes a little cringy.

And just my basic demeanor in terms of

what I want to talk about and what I feel comfortable talking about and my need to connect with people is sort of ingrained in me.

And I'm willing to volunteer a lot of myself.

And I think that the conversations that

in the beginning, I was literally having comedians over to apologize to them.

So I, you know, for being a dick or whatever I thought my problem, you know, my issues were or whether they were mad at me.

So

the style unfolded with me trying to get resolution and make amends and this and that.

And also I think the way I characterize it is generally the first 100 episodes were me having celebrities over to talk about my problems.

So,

and that became a way, you know, it's very disarming when you offer yourself.

Yeah, when you pull your pants down, it's everybody feels kind of safe and like, okay, so I guess we're going to be honest.

I love that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, when you pull your pants down, everybody feels safe.

Yeah.

Confident.

Yeah.

But so that's how it sort of evolved.

And it's a need for me because I don't, like, my preparation is just getting a broad view of who people are, what they've done.

And, you know, it's evolved over time in terms of how I handle certain interviews.

If somebody has

an amazing, if it's an older person with a large bulk of work, I'll forego the really personal stuff to really talk about the work.

But, you know, it all gets mixed in.

Well, let me ask you,

has it changed the way you

I'll ask all of you guys, and I don't know if I have an

of y'all.

All y'all.

Has it changed?

I'll speak for myself first.

I think that doing this over the last five years, which is just

kind of odd to me.

Right, but think about that.

We've only done 300 episodes.

He's done 1,600.

No, I know, I know.

Amazing.

But for sure.

But for us, for the last five years, certainly for me, I can only speak for myself, that it has changed a little bit the way that I talk to people.

I don't just mean people out in the world like, hey, I'm a fan.

I mean just like people in general it has this has shaped a little bit um how i how i interact with people to a certain degree it is not the driving but it has become a big part of who i am now uh having these conversations and talking in this way i for whatever reason for for better or for worse well it's interesting because you guys you know are all actors and you know part of that craft from what i what i understand you know about 90 of it is being present and listening.

So whether you were used to doing that in your real life or not, who knows?

But I mean, it is a tool that you all have to be present and listen.

That's applicable to this.

Yeah.

And it's a real thing that, you know, because we're all kind of self-centered guys and, you know, you kind of, you want to get your word in.

You want to, you know, you're kind of half listening.

But once you start to engage your empathy and your ability to shut the fuck up,

you find that

it is the foundation of connection.

And I think that does change.

I think that I'm.

I'm so afraid to talk now.

Keep going.

No, you go.

I'm kidding.

I'm kidding.

Oh, you know, you go.

But for me, it took a lot to do that.

And some people still are sort of like, why don't you let the guests talk?

And I'm like, because it's my show.

So

and also, you know, over years, you've got to, you know, when someone's going into a public narrative.

And some of those are deeper than you can imagine.

There's ways that public people talk that, you know, there are sometimes I know, like, well, I know this story has been told God knows how many times, but maybe my listeners, you know, haven't heard it.

But if it's something that I'm like, well, he's, you know, or she's, you know, kind of autopiloting here, I'll interrupt until I can get them off of that and get them into some other place.

Aaron Trevor Brandon, did you ever get that thing?

Well, first of all, did you ever

read comments

when you put stuff out on social, like to promote the show?

I try not to.

But, you know, it's it's kind of addicting.

I don't check the numbers.

I don't know what the...

When Twitter was

a viable thing, I would look at those, and that would be upsetting.

And it took me years to learn not to engage.

I have an email.

I used to follow you on Twitter, and you would sometimes engage, and I would see the stuff that you would say.

It's a nightmare.

Yeah, it's a nightmare.

But would it change, would it alter the way, because I remember I haven't looked in forever.

Yeah, it expanded my self-consciousness, which is just what you need.

Exactly.

You take in just random bullshit trolling, and you're like, that guy kind of nailed it.

I got to be aware of that.

You know, yeah.

Well, we used to have that, exactly.

And I used to have that early days.

It would be like, and people, I'm sure, still do it.

They're like, I wish Arnett would shut the fuck up.

Why is he talking?

Why is he interrupting?

And I'm like, well, by the way,

I can remember.

Yeah, true enough.

As opposed to like, you know, honor Hawkwind 2's comments about you.

Yeah.

You know,

some guy with four followers in the UK.

You're like, oh, geez, I got to reassess my whole life for some idiot sitting at a computer.

Exactly.

There is a sense for some reason, no matter how old you are,

we're older, but

you see one comment on a social media platform, and some part of your brain goes, the entire internet thinks I suck.

And it's like, one idiot.

But still, if it's a bad morning, you got to fight the urge.

So, Mark, so when you started WTF, you'd obviously had, I used to listen to you on Air America all the time, and you'd done a bunch of other things.

What made you

take us back to what the landscape was for the medium

of podcasting?

Like, what made you think that there was even money there, that there was an avenue there?

I'm not a money guy.

For better or for worse, I ended up with some, but it's never been my driving motivation.

My motivation with comedy and with this has always been like, I want to be seen and heard because I don't know who I am.

So

I am building a sense of self here and I want you all to be involved.

But at the beginning,

Brendan and I, Air America collapsed.

And, you know, and we, you know, I got pushed out to LA and I did an evening show that no one listened to for a while, but then it just went away.

And, you know,

like at the same time, I was going through kind of a miserable divorce and there was a outreach from Air America.

They're like,

we want to pull you back in to do a streaming show.

And this is before streaming.

This is like 2007.

No one knew what streaming was.

So I'm like, fine.

And I said, can you give me this amount of money so I can pay her off so I can get my life back?

So they gave me this money to pay her off.

And then they gave me this job at Air America doing a streaming show with Sam Cedar that no one could really watch.

Sam Cedar.

Love Sam Cedar.

Yeah, yeah.

I haven't seen him in so long anyways.

So it was me me and Cedar doing this show that crapped out in a year, and we knew it would.

And I was like devastated and heartbroken.

So I was kind of useless.

But we were at the studios at Air America that version of it, which was a very kind of broken down version.

And once our contract was up,

they fired us, but we still had like two months on the contract.

And being good liberals, they're like, well, you guys can use the offices, which is unheard of when you do a radio job.

They're usually like, don't let him near the mics.

Give him his, take away his card and get him out.

But they did.

Didn't Janine Garofilo Garofilo have a show on Air America as well?

Not then.

No, that was the original one.

But this was like, this was when they had like Montel Williams and it was a, and, and who's that other guy?

Lionel, that weirdo.

So, and we were just in this office doing a streaming show.

Yeah.

And so we're out of a job.

And I said to Brendan, my producer, I said, look, man, there are these podcasts.

There's a few of them.

You know, Carolla had moved his radio show into the podcast form, but it was really just a radio show.

I think who was around, Jimmy Pardo did it Ricky Ricky was doing one like Gervais was like every once in a while yeah yeah he was around but there was only about five that had any profile really five or six it was pre-Rogan and it came from and you could only find it on the Apple iPod itself which is where it gets its name podcasting right well that's what they that's the thing is that you know Apple at that time I said to Brendan know that either can you figure out how to do this and and and maybe we should do it and at that time Apple just wanted anybody with a name to do do them, and they'd get behind you because it's not a platform as much as it is just,

like it's not a server.

It was also, it was part of the thing to actually sell the hardware, the iPod itself.

You could only get it on this network.

That's exactly the same device that they were launching.

That's right.

Wow.

Wow.

So they kind of got behind us, and we were kind of.

That's the first thing I've ever learned from Jason.

Yeah, yeah.

Joy.

Wow.

It's all about that, dude.

Same with Apple TV.

You know, it's like that's just about getting people to get Apple TV ultimately.

Buy hardware, yeah.

Wow.

So

we started, you know, kind of going in after hours.

We had cards.

We knew the night tech, and we were bringing guests up the freight elevator.

And it wasn't really the same show at the beginning, but it was all just sort of, I needed to keep doing something.

I thought my comedy career was nowhere.

I certainly wasn't acting.

And I, you know, after, I didn't, you know, I didn't know what to do with my life.

So it was kind of a Hail Mary, but there was no way to make money.

It must have been scary.

Was it, was it a scary time, or were you kind of comfortable with

your set in life?

Well,

I knew that for whatever reason, I was good on these mics because I knew that and Brendan knew that as well, that there was a way, who knows why anyone's going to be good on these.

But there was a way I kind of approached it that was very sort of immediate and honest and sort of searching.

Did it feel like your last shot?

I guess is my shit.

Yeah, I mean, like, I used to make a joke about it that I, you know, when I moved out to L.A.

and I set the mics up in the garage, I was like, this is the same garage I thought about killing myself in.

But I had no expectations.

There was no money expectation.

It was just me trying to do something.

And then, you know, through weird timing and just, you know, trying to focus on building a social media presence, getting people who have that on the show.

And then because the celebrity press had become kind of anemic,

you know, people were locking in because I was doing their job for them.

So Vulture was there.

What was the moment?

What was the moment where you looked at Brendan or looked at yourself and said, hey, we have something here?

We have some traffic on social media.

People are listening to the show.

Well, that was starting to happen, you know, because Vulture picked up on it pretty early.

And then I think when we had, you know, when I went up to the Bay Area to interview Robin Williams, you know, there was a couple of pretty big shows.

I mean, we had

fairly big people social media-wise, but I think the Robin interview, because it had never been done before, you know, before that or after, I mean, when he passed, you know, a lot of people were using that pieces of that interview because it was a rare thing and it was hard to get him.

And he was very protected and very insulated in terms of, you know, how we were going to do it.

And ultimately, I ended up driving up there.

I did a lot of those kind of interviews early on where I talk in the car on the way.

But when I got up there, you know, it was just him and his house and an assistant.

And I think that people didn't realize when if you're, if, if Robin was in front of more than two people or two at least, it was going to be a show.

So, when it was just one guy and also a comic and also a guy willing to connect and talk, it was a completely different sort of Robin experience.

But if there were one other person there,

it would have been wrong because he would have just started jumping around and improvising.

So, I think that one really was a big interview in terms of

people.

Because people were hearing a quality from him that they

were not used to.

Yeah, never.

It was quite,

It was pretty insane, man.

Yeah.

We'll be right back.

Theater News Alert.

Actors and real life buds Kiana Reeves and Alex Winter are coming to Broadway, starring in the greatest play ever written about nothing, waiting for Godot.

Don't miss the exhilarating, hilarious, and deeply human new production of Samuel Beckett's absurdest masterpiece, directed by Tony and Olivier Award winner Jamie Lloyd.

It's a 16-week, limited run starting September 13th, so don't wait.

Unless, of course, you ready?

Unless you're waiting for Godot.

Get tickets now at GodotBroadway.com.

That's G-O-D-O-TBroadway.com.

Waiting for Godot.

Hey, guys, can you remember a time when you took a big risk and it actually paid off?

For me, you know, in high school, the first time I ever did a play, I was like, boy, this is a roll of the dice.

I don't know how this is going to turn out.

And it just left me feeling more confident and more like the ability to take on new things and like I could achieve anything.

And even the boldest adventures start somewhere.

And if you're looking to take on new challenges, whether it's uncharted territory or just a weekend getaway that feels epic, the Defender 110.

is ready to go there with you.

This isn't just a vehicle.

It's a tool for the modern explorer.

Purpose-built and courage-driven.

The the Defender 110 is naturally capable, expedition-ready, and designed to handle the extremes.

With on-road presence and serious off-road prowess, the Defender 110 looks tough because it is tough.

From its raised hood and sculpted grill to its durable exterior and rich interior finishes, it seats five with room for up to seven, so comfort meets capability every step of the way.

And the Tech, a next-gen-gen Pivi Pro infotainment system, 3D surround cameras with clear-sight ground view, and driver aid features that help you anticipate, adapt, and stay in control wherever your trail leads.

Explore the Defender 110 at Landroverusa.com.

Hey guys, I'm going to talk to you about a protein bar that I just ate, and it's so good.

RX Bar is all about simple ingredients and honest nutrition.

They said no to artificial ingredients and yes to simple ones that serve a purpose.

As the proud sponsor of No BS, RX Bar encourages you to say no to the BS that gets in the way.

They've got options and flavors to match your lifestyle.

Original 12 gram protein bar made with simple core ingredients like dates, egg whites, almonds, and cashews.

Nut butter and oat bar, soft, crispy, and made with oats and creamy nut butter plus 10 grams of protein.

Minis, 100 calorie bars with 6 grams of protein, perfect for in between moments.

I inhaled the nut butter oat dark chocolate peanut butter.

It is so yummy.

I had two in a row and I'm proud of it.

Visit rxbar.com to learn more.

RxBar, a proud sponsor of NoBS.

All right, back to the show.

And Mark, now that you've done it for so long, and I mean, it's so impressive.

I think Jason said 1600 episodes or something like that.

And it's become part of your identity and you're, you know, all you've done all these years.

And now you're wrapping it up.

Talk about that.

Like, is that, are you going to miss it?

Are you going to think like, well, who am I now?

And what do I do?

I think so.

You know,

it's a weird thing with the ego in terms of the world we live in and, you know, what anyone considers relevance or irrelevance.

I was talking to Owen Wilson the other day about it because I'm on that show with him.

And we were talking about, you know, stopping the podcast.

And he quoted some Salinger quote that was like, you know, I don't have the courage to

be, you know, just

unknown

or just an average person.

But

I think like

what's happening is the show has always really been about the arc of my life.

On the base level, it's been about me and, you know, and I talk to people.

And I think at this point, you know, because we put the amount of work we do, Brendan and I, it's just always been the two of us.

And he's a very specific, very gifted audio producer.

It takes a lot of time to put these shows together twice a week.

And

people don't know that.

But, you know, sometimes he'll spend like hours with an interview, you know, kind of, you know, finding a theme, trimming it, you know, maybe moving things around.

It's so funny how many people have listened to their interview and are like, God, I really nailed that thing.

It's like, it took Brendan four hours.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, we feel the same way about Robin Bennett and the guys who Michael Terry who work with us, they mean the same thing and they're really good at

the best in the biz.

Let me answer that real quick, Will.

Will let me let me just answer Sean real quick.

Okay.

I apologize.

I'm known for interrupting, of course.

That's okay, me too.

That guy from England.

But

the thing is, is like, yeah, I am nervous about the time, but it's, but viewing it as a piece of work as opposed to content and sort of really assessing the need to keep plowing along just because you can,

you know, was sort of a conversation.

We got a deal with a platform, ACAST, and that we were in that for years, and it kind of made us, you know, the money that I think we deserved after working on it so long.

And now that's coming to an end.

And we were talking before that about winding it down.

And our agreement has always been like, well, I'm going to go as long as you go.

Whoever cries, Uncle, first, then we'll just honor that.

But the truth is,

there comes a point with me, because of the way I do it, where maybe I'd like to have a little bit of a private life.

Maybe I'd like to not worry about which pieces and bits of my life or past I need to kind of bring up in order to satisfy what I do and the audience I've created

who find a lot of comfort and a lot of,

I've helped a lot of people unknowingly, you know, get sober, not commit suicide, deal with authoritarianism.

You know, there is the way I do it, it was very comforting to a very specific audience.

So there's part of me that thinks like, well,

I owe them.

And they kind of live in your head.

And that gets a little emotionally exhausting.

So I think that by viewing it as an amazing piece of work.

you know, of 16 years of a thing that never diminished in its quality and always had the arc of me and

always was always interesting and engaging every episode, that to sort of say, oh, we're done with this part of our lives,

it kind of is good for the legacy of the thing as opposed to being one of those people where it's like, is Marin still doing it?

That's crazy.

You don't want to be that guy.

Right.

You know, right, right.

But do you like what I was going to say was, you know, when you hear like

an athlete retires and they say you're going to miss the game?

And what's funny is they always say, you know, I'm going to miss the guys.

I'm going to miss being in the locker room.

I'm going to miss the people that are,

you know, I don't know anything about your relationship with Brendan, other than you've mentioned him a bunch, and he was obviously integral to your show.

I mean, that relationship is now going to change.

Have you guys talked about that, how that's going to shift?

Well, you know, it's weird.

I've been working with him since he was 24, and now he's 44.

Wow.

And, you know, we met at Air America, and he was an associate producer.

So, and the very odd thing about Brendan and I is that he's actually, you know, part of my brain.

Like, you know, I do these interviews and then I send them to him.

And my memory of them is of whatever I remember that day, but he spends hours with all of them.

So I rely on him to remember things.

And also, he's a very brilliant guy, you know, with politics and film.

He's really really the smartest guy I know.

And he's a great producer because he helps me frame things that I'm thinking, you know, which is usually intuitive.

And then, you know, he can give it depth.

And, but, but over the years,

it's always been a professional relationship.

We're not really in each other's lives.

He's more in mine because he hears me talk about it all the time.

But we have, you know, it's one of the only relationships where the boundaries are healthy.

There's full respect there.

We're 50-50 partners, and I don't

lean on him for personal stuff unless it's really pressing.

And we've never had a fight

since I've known him once.

And it's just, so that relationship, he'll be there for me

if I need him, but he needs a break.

But I just think, like

what you're saying is true, though.

This show is a foundation.

It's a big part of my social life.

It's a big part of my spiritual and soul life in terms of engaging with other humans who are creative humans and really talking about life, which I think is important to do in one's life, but I was doing it also as my job and outlet.

I am going to miss that.

And I imagine that I should really give a heads up to my two friends that it's going to be hard for them for a little while.

Do you feel that you're leaving Mark Marin in a better place than where you found him?

when you started?

I hope so because Mark Maron is going to be 62 years old in September.

And

I just did,

it's weird.

And I know you guys have got it,

you guys seem to have

probably a more expansive work ethic than I do.

But

I don't know.

I just did a special, you know, that's going to premiere on HBO August 1st.

And it's really probably the best work I've done as a comic.

Oh, that's great.

I've done this thing for 16 years, and I'm very proud of that as

a singular thing.

And, you know, I wouldn't say I'm tired, but I'd like to see where I am without these responsibilities a little bit or without them being pressing all the time.

I don't know.

Yeah, it is.

It is an interesting thing.

I mean, yeah,

you mentioned the special in HBO and you mentioned Stick with Owen.

And, you know, I love that film you were in that Justin Cruzel directed, The Order of the Law.

It was just incredible.

And

your career is

not even ascendant.

Ascendant doesn't sound

sound as respectful as I mean it to be, but

things are great for you.

So you probably, there's a part of, there's a part of this while you're winding that down, it's almost because you might not even have time for it anymore.

Shifting.

Yeah, and this, and also it seems like,

correct me if I'm wrong, like you're kind of allowing yourself to be a little bit

more in a healthy way selfish with your life.

And you're saying, well, I don't want to lend my personal life out anymore and monetize it.

I want to keep my power inside and kind of enjoy being me.

And

I don't know.

It sounds like a really healthy place that you're.

That's where I'm trying to get.

I don't know if panic will fit in.

I'm not great alone.

I don't have a wife.

I don't have kids.

You got cats, Mark.

Yeah, I got a few cats.

And that's a whole other thing, dude.

You know, I don't know what I'm going to do with Charlie.

But anyway,

i got a i got a real fuck of a cat so

and the the this the fucking the hard thing about cats is like at least kids grow up the cats are like they're just gonna be that and

you know there's no teaching it new things or anything but uh but yeah i think that's true jason i think it i think that is that is ultimately what is happening and as you get older you give less fucks about certain things yeah uh and and the acting and that kind of stuff

The way I see it is that, you know, I do, you know, I've been able to do everything I wanted to do only because I did this one thing on my own that got me out in the world.

And I've somehow managed to remain kind of under the radar.

I don't have like, you know, the weight of celebrity on me.

You know, I'm kind of chipping away.

But you're on top of the radar with those that you, I, I would imagine, respect, admire, at the audience you've actually been shooting for, you have.

And that's, that, I think, is really admirable.

Yeah, I mean, like, I try not to, like, I know, I know, I kind of know exactly who I am and what my,

not so much shortcomings are, but there is an element, like, because I have friends who are big, big, you know, stars in comedy or whatever.

And there's always that little party that's like, fuck, why am I not playing arenas?

And it's just sort of like, dude, could you imagine the weirdness of doing what you do in an arena?

I mean, I do a joke about it.

I say, like, I think I could play one arena centrally located in the country somewhere and I could bust my fans in, you know, like, you know, buses for Marin leaving out of Whole Foods parking lots in these cities.

That's so funny.

But so I do know who I am, and I do know

the reason I am who I am has something to do with some fears, but maybe those are good.

Maybe those are self-protecting, you know?

Yeah.

So now the question is.

Yeah.

What do you, what do what do you, what's day-to-day?

Like, what are you going to, what do you want to do?

Like, if you had your drothers, if it was like, hey, man, and which you kind of do,

what's the deal?

Is it wake up?

I'd like to try to figure out how to enjoy myself.

I mean, you guys seem to have to do that.

So what's the path to that?

Are you going to learn how to, are you going to paint?

Are you going to learn how to sing?

Well, look, I do, I do a lot of things.

You know, I've been playing guitar with people.

I'm playing, you know, I get together and sometimes I do music shows.

I've found the courage to sing in front of people, and that's sort of daunting and interesting.

But you know what?

I really like to learn how to do, and I don't know how to do it.

You know, like when I, when I act, you know, I think I do okay with it.

You do, you're great.

Well, that's nice.

You are good.

And I just did a feature, an indie feature, where I'm the lead, and I kind of, you know, I kind of manned up and pulled that off.

We'll see if it gets out anywhere.

But nice.

But there's this thing.

Wait, is that the one with Judy Greer?

She's in it.

And

Lily Gladstone's in it.

Sharon Stone.

Awesome.

Alan Ruck.

Oh, awesome.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Michael McKean.

That's called in Memoriam?

Yeah, dude.

It's funny.

And I watched a Final Cut.

And let me ask you this: two questions about acting since we're here.

When you watch yourself,

are you always sort of like, the fuck?

Why'd I, you know, I could have, you know,

like,

I mean, you can watch the whole movie, but you're, some part of you is really focused on like, why'd I do that with my eye?

You know, like, I will, I will say that the fact that you're doing that, that you're watching and

you're being honest with yourself and you're just,

that will make you an incredible actor.

I've learned so much from seeing how bad I am on things and adjusting for the next challenge.

But don't people say you're good, though?

Aren't they telling you that it's good?

Yeah, but you know.

It doesn't matter.

But are we right?

Yes, I'm saying you need to, I think you need to watch yourself.

And there's so many talented actors that I work with that never watch themselves because

they're afraid that they're bad, yet they're so good.

And I keep saying, you're denying yourself like this, this great treat.

But Jason, I think that you have a unique ability.

I really mean this.

And I don't know if it's because you've been doing it since you were a little kid.

So it's just so like ingrained into who you are, but you have a really good ability to separate and be objective.

You really, really do.

It's an honor.

It's a memory.

It's a great quality.

Yeah.

And so you're able to go and look at stuff.

And now because also because you have that,

because you you direct.

So

your ability to be objective about your place in the story, understanding where you are is, I think, unique.

I don't think everybody has that.

I know.

Just thinking about what Jason does, like with the directing and then with the act, like I'm getting anxiety thinking about his career.

So

like I can't even fucking wrap my brain around it.

You know, like,

but here's the question that is kind of eating at me.

It's like, I was sitting with Judy at some junket for Stick because she's got a part in that too.

Oh, wow.

And she said to me, she said, you know, the way you handle that character was very unique because most people would have went broad with it.

And I said to her, I said, I don't think I know how to go broad.

And she goes, I don't think you do either.

So some part of my brain is like, I got to figure out how to get broad.

You know,

how do I become a broad comic actor?

I don't have it in there.

It's so funny.

By the way, I was just thinking, I saw a video on social media this morning.

Sean, I don't know who, I think the play posted it of you just playing piano

within the last couple of days.

Yeah, the Gershwin.

Yeah, the Gershwin thing.

And Sean, and Sean's about to, he's in London.

He's about to do his show in the West End.

Good night, Oscar.

At the Tabasco or the

barbecue.

At the barbecue, sorry.

And

you're just sitting down.

You're playing.

You're not playing in front of anybody.

And you just start playing.

And honestly, God, and not to embarrass you, I thought, this fucking guy is so fucking talented.

Yeah.

No, it's true.

And I thought, like, I couldn't do that if you gave me a million tries.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And you know what I mean?

And I'm just thinking, like, God damn it.

Like, what am I doing?

I'm fixing my bike in the garage.

I'm going to order a piano on Amazon, right?

I literally went to get a new wrench at the hardware store and then rode back.

And couldn't figure out how to use it.

And was trying to get them to raise my handlebars.

Yeah, for a half hour before you called the guy to fix it, right?

No,

I did it.

I got the scars to bring.

I did it wrong.

And then my seat kept going down.

Anyway, and Sean's there playing, making beautiful art.

And I was like, oh, God damn it.

You know, that's really nice.

I think we all have gifts and we've all lucky, we're all lucky enough to be able to share them.

Yeah, it is pretty great, Mark.

You know, like you, you, whatever your innate talent is, you have found a lane for it, a platform for it,

you know, a place to apply it and

doing such good for so many that listen to you.

And I'm very happy for you that you are deciding to,

you know, spend a little of that on yourself and reinvesting and, you know,

leave on your terms.

And I reject the idea, just before, I also reject the idea.

And I know you say it because it's kind of a funny one line, like, you know, that people, you inspired, that people thought, well, if Mark can do it, I can do it.

That's not true at all.

I think the opposite is true.

I think that you inspired people.

Oh, that's nice.

It's true.

And you grew this medium so that dumb-dums dumbs like us could do it.

And that your tone and your quality and your honesty and your vulnerability

was a viable format.

But I think

the other thing I want to know is because comedy, look, I watched my new special and I like it.

I have complete control

out of that of that craft.

And it's the best work I've done.

I know that.

That's great.

And with this thing, but with comedy and with podcasting,

it's all driven improvisationally.

It's all going to create itself in real time.

And with acting, that's different.

So then all of a sudden you got a script and you make choices and all that stuff.

But I don't know really where none of my imagination goes into creating fiction or creating things outside of myself.

Everything I do is impulsive and comes from the need to connect.

So I'm kind of curious, do I have creativity that is more disciplined?

disciplined that I can apply in another way.

That's the big mystery.

Can I apply my talents to something that isn't essentially market?

Have you ever sat down and written?

Have you ever?

Yeah, I write every week.

I don't love writing.

It's exhausting.

But I write a thing every week, but reflections that are sort of poetic, and I put that out into the world.

And I've done the writing, but my comedy is sort of formed on stage and in real time until it sort of sets.

And then I leave room for new things.

to happen for for like I did the special and I you know I usually start with like an hour and 45 minutes that I tour with for a year and a half.

And then, you know, three weeks before I got to shoot, I got to get it down to like 70 minutes and figure out what the callbacks are.

And then I leave a little open space for things to drop in the days before or even that night.

So it keeps it alive.

And, you know, but I'm very confident in that craft.

And I'm very confident in this talking on the mic thing.

But like with acting or I, you know, I've set in motion,

I'm going to direct a film based on my buddy Sam Lipsight's book.

And hopefully

that'll happen, you know.

But that's a little daunting and scary, but I guess I'm not afraid to take the chances.

It sounds like it's, of course, you've got creativity.

What are you talking about?

You're doing it all.

Yeah, in answer to what I think your question is about the application of

what you heretofore have been doing, which is basically freestyling, improvising.

You are coming first, and then the words follow, right?

That's your writing for stand-up, you're freestyling on the microphone, your podcast.

How do you apply that same level of

accuracy, authenticity

into something that is, by its own definition, pre-written, right?

A movie, a script.

Or outside of myself, yeah.

Yeah.

How do you find that level of

Mark Maron in acting?

I will say that you are allowed when you take on a character to make that character simply just another part of who Mark Maron is.

You know,

there are goalposts.

You're far right, far left of who Mark Maron is.

And then you just find whatever version that character is closest to you inside of those goalposts.

So you're still being Mark Maron.

It's just the words are written beforehand, and you got to find the version of you that fits those words.

And so you're still kind of

exhibiting who you are.

And should still be able to find some enjoyment.

Yeah, I get that part where you kind of turn things off or turn things on within you.

I get that with the acting.

My question is, like, can I do something like, like, if I direct, you know, I don't have a vocabulary for that.

I don't have a style.

So that's completely outside of me.

And I'm just going to have to figure out what that is.

Can I, could I?

You don't need to do that on the first one.

Just exercise taste and just sit there and watch the results of other people's work and say, yes to this, no to that, a little more of this, a little more of that.

It is the one person on the set that doesn't have a job.

So you don't really actually need to do anything.

I'm not suggesting that's the right way to be a director, but I've worked with a million that work that way.

It's very common.

So you need not be overwhelmed with I got to do a bunch of shit.

Yeah.

Walk before you run and just sit there and just be the arbiter of taste.

You know?

Right.

Okay.

Well, I can, I will do that.

Yeah.

And you can do that.

You've got great taste.

Fuck, I've learned a lot from Jason today.

Yeah, I'm pushing him.

Who's this guy?

I'm starting my own podcast next week.

I wanted to tell you guys about it.

I'm listening to it.

Are you kidding me?

I can't wait.

Holy shit.

It took us 300 episodes to get through to you.

I've arrived.

Wait, if it wasn't for Mark, you know what I mean?

How about this?

This is the first interview, a first guest I've ever had that I didn't get to one single question.

Yeah.

And we're already six minutes over one hour.

So that is a testament to you, Mr.

Mark Marin, knowing the gift of Gab, knowing what you're doing, keeping the conversation going.

Can I share one story, though, for Sean?

Please.

Yes, please.

Wait, Sean, are you still here?

Yep.

There he is.

I took a bathroom break.

I'm back.

Well, he talked about the doctor that did the full examination for the sore throat.

Like,

I went into one of my old guy physicals, you know, I guess it was probably last year.

And now

for the prostate test,

they only do the blood test.

And like, so, you know, I...

Finger's gone?

Right.

Well, that's, I didn't know that.

So the guy said, I said, well, are we going to do the

finger thing?

Not for me.

And then

he says, no, no, we don't do that anymore.

You know, they do it with the blood.

I'm like, well, is that effective?

I mean, you find that the results, he's like, yeah, no, we just do the blood test.

He says, I can do the other thing if you want.

So I'm like, well, I would feel better.

I would feel better if you did.

So I requested a finger bang from the doctor.

And he did that.

He did.

And

my diagnosis is it's not clear.

He needed to go back in.

You said, go ahead.

Why don't you go ahead and toss a ring on, too, before you get in there?

He said he'd like to see you again next week.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's here.

You're a little bit of a hypochondriac, though, like I am a little bit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well,

I grew up with a doctor father, so it was a real way to get attention.

Like, you know, I think I have cancer.

So,

but yeah, I've got, you know, I got a, you know,

I got a handle on it.

You know, it doesn't happen as much.

And when it does happen, it runs pretty deep.

Like, you know, like, I can usually say, like, just wait a couple of days.

It'll probably go away, that kind of stuff.

But if I really lock into, I think I have cancer,

I'll go all the way through it and I'll sit in my bed and just sweat, you know,

man, me too.

Anticipating the nothingness.

That's called intelligence

and being creative,

the ability to sort of like create these scenarios in your brain.

That's how I use my imagination, just all driven by panic and fear.

I'd really like to free it up.

You know who doesn't have panic?

Dummies.

It takes a lot of intelligence to create this funny

thing.

They're a little more happier than we are when they're not talking about that.

That's blissful ignorance.

When they're not talking about QAnon.

The happiness is not as profound.

How much?

No.

Okay.

Well, that's a projection, but hold on to it.

Mark,

we love you and we thank you.

Incredible.

You're the greatest.

Thanks, guys.

I really appreciate it.

And you guys are doing great.

Thank you, Mark.

Well, thank you.

You please keep on jamming.

And

will you consider at least maybe doing a special once a year or something, just to,

and I don't mean the incredible specials on, yeah, yeah,

come back.

Well, I think that's because I give people updates.

Well, I have to figure out, like, I think there's other ways to do it.

You know, maybe it's the podcast version of the Letterman Show.

You know what I mean?

Where he does like six years.

You know, I could do that, but then you're kind of like, who's, you know, my, my producer, and I don't really do much without him, but I think there is a world where, you know, I could at least, you maybe

after a little time off,

get on the mic, you know, once a week just to talk without people.

That might happen.

I don't know.

We want it.

We need it.

Please do it.

Thanks, man.

Yeah.

All right.

Okay.

All right.

Thanks.

Best of luck to you, my friend.

Thanks for doing it.

Thanks, Mark.

Take care of you guys.

Good luck with the show, Sean.

Break a leg.

Thank you, pal.

Thank you.

Appreciate it.

Bye.

Bye, Mark.

Boy, that Mark Maron.

I mean, like, you know, so Willie, Sean, unfortunately, you never did a show, but Willie, doesn't it sort of you just sit there, you listen to him, and you just, he just kind of rocks you into this place of like,

oh, I just want to tell you everything about me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, he's just like, well, he just

like a therapist, you know?

Yeah, but without being solicitous, he's just, right, he just kind of goes first.

And there's just like this nice quality.

He just starts talking and you're just having a conversation.

You forget that you're doing it.

And all of a sudden, you're telling him stuff that you haven't ever talked about in that way before.

Yeah, it's a really talk about gifts, though.

Like, that's his gift is like, you know, like it was very nice of you to say that, Willie, but like we all really do have gifts.

And his gift is to just be able to constantly keep a conversation going, be interesting, never not be curious.

He's always curious about every single person.

And it's really an intelligent conversation.

You get sucked in.

Yeah, I'm glad that at least he will always have his

stand-up to sort of just just.

Yeah, I'm excited for his new stand-up special.

That's going to be great.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That is, he mentioned it earlier, but just to make sure,

it's called Panicked, and it's going to be on HBO August 1st.

And then it'll stream on the Max after that.

But that's great.

I'm such a big fan of his.

Yeah, same here.

He's always been such a good dude.

And I figured, you know, Sean, you're mentioning the gifts.

And, you know, he has that.

And Jason, we talked about your gifts.

And Sean,

you have your gifts.

And I don't know.

Yeah.

I wasn't given any gifts, but you know what?

Hopefully, one day I'll be in a position where I'll be able to buy one.

And that was pretty good.

Yeah, bye.

Bye.

Bye.

Smart

Less.

Smart

Less.

Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Michael Grant Terry, Rob Armjarve, and Bennett Barbico.

Smart Less.

From the creator of Bo Jack Horseman comes a new comedy that blends humor and heartbreak.

Long story short.

It's all about family and all of the ups and downs that come with it.

It brings the same sharp, heartfelt storytelling that will hit a little too close to home.

If you've ever had a family or tried to escape one, this show, it's for you.

Watch Long Story Short, August 22nd, only on Netflix.

Introducing Searchlight Pictures' new movie, The Roses, starring Benedict Cumberbatch and Olivia Coleman.

Perfect couple, Ivy and Theo Rose, have it all.

But when Theo's career comes crashing down, just as Ivy's fame starts to skyrocket, a tinderbox of fierce competition and growing resentment threatens to destroy everything they've built if they don't destroy each other first.

Directed by Jay Roach of Meet the Parents, written by Tony McNamara of Poor Things, and also starring Andy Samberg, Allison Jani, Shutigatwa, and Kate McKinnon.

All's fair when love is war.

The Roses in theaters everywhere, August 29th.

Get tickets now.