"Marc Maron"

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Speaker 1 I got a good dad joke for the day.

Speaker 2 You're going to start us with a dad joke today instead of of ending this.

Speaker 1 I'm going to start the cold open.

Speaker 1 This is the beginning? Okay, so this is okay.

Speaker 1 Let's try

Speaker 2 the format switch here, listener.

Speaker 1 Let's hear it. How much room is needed for fungi to grow? Oh, boy.

Speaker 1 You tell me. As much room as possible.

Speaker 1 Welcome.

Speaker 1 Welcome, Miss Marbury.

Speaker 1 Smart.

Speaker 1 Smart.

Speaker 1 Smart.

Speaker 1 List.

Speaker 2 Sean, you have any opening bits?

Speaker 1 I do. I do have something to share.
What happened today? Consult your sheet. I have no sheets.
Really? I have no sheets.

Speaker 2 You give no sheet?

Speaker 1 I give no sheet.

Speaker 2 I don't give no sheet.

Speaker 1 But first of all, Jason, you are, well, I can't wait for you to come visit, but you are so lucky, Jason. Today in London and tomorrow, it's like

Speaker 1 no exaggeration, like 100 degrees. Right.
And then the day I get there. And then they get there, it's 72.

Speaker 2 I literally just looked at that on the way to this.

Speaker 1 And you're so lucky. It's 70.

Speaker 1 How many days are you spending over there with Sean in London? Sean? Just three. Just three.
Just three. I love that.
Jason doesn't even know. I know.

Speaker 2 I go where I'm fucking told. In fact, I'm waiting for my wife to

Speaker 2 help give me notes on packing.

Speaker 1 Does she make you a list of what you should pack like you're tapping?

Speaker 2 She tries, but her big move always is to just kind of walk up behind me while I'm starting to pack and say pleasantly, hey, would you like some help? And I say, no, no, I'm set. Thank you.
I got it.

Speaker 2 And then she'll just stand there and she'll watch me.

Speaker 2 Say, I don't need any help. No, no, I know.
I'm just checking. And then she'll just start to like lob, quote, suggestions.

Speaker 2 And so she ends up packing and controlling what is she worried about, do you think?

Speaker 1 Is she worried that you're not going to have the right thing for the right city?

Speaker 2 I don't think she's ever ever worried about anything.

Speaker 2 I think just her happy place is having just kind of like a

Speaker 2 hand on all sorry hand on things.

Speaker 2 You both know this better than I do. She talks to both of you more than she talks to me.

Speaker 1 That's true. That's true.
So

Speaker 1 it's true. I actually know more about your trip than you do.
I do. Yes.

Speaker 1 So tell me, when am I leaving? I don't know. I knew

Speaker 2 you're leaving tomorrow?

Speaker 1 Tomorrow night. Yeah, tomorrow night.
Tomorrow night.

Speaker 1 How do you feel about it, Jason? Do you get excited about traveling?

Speaker 2 I can't stand it.

Speaker 2 I don't understand the concept of leaving the nest that you have deliberately created with all your favorite things to the extent you can get them right around you and in the right space.

Speaker 1 I'm super excited to see you too. I just don't know.

Speaker 2 I mean, but like the concept of leaving a place that you're comfortable to go to a place that's completely foreign to you, I get the whole cultural reach and

Speaker 1 other things. But But I mean, there's

Speaker 1 tons of stuff to do here. No, there's a tons of stuff to do in London, but not in the South.

Speaker 1 This is what makes you, this is kind of should feed your brain and feed your soul and go to different places and see different things from that's look, I don't want to get into it, but it's kind of the problem with America a little bit.

Speaker 2 Listen, East Hampton, tell us about what

Speaker 1 fucking.

Speaker 1 I go to Sag Harbor. I was there this morning.

Speaker 1 Can I do it? Were you really?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I rode my bike to the hardware store.

Speaker 2 Wait, you rode your bike from East Hampton to Sag Harbor?

Speaker 1 No, I did not. I didn't do that.
It's too hard. That sounds too much.
It was too much.

Speaker 1 I felt very chory today. Like, I rode my bike into town.
I talked to some police officers, said hi to them. They were dealing with an issue.
Apparently, there was a dog issue.

Speaker 1 Was a dog stuck in a tree? No, like somebody complaining that somebody else had left their dog outside, but it was in a sunny area and was mad and called the East Hampton police.

Speaker 1 There's not proper shade for this animal. Yeah.
And these cops were so diplomatic about it because they're just like,

Speaker 1 what are we doing? What are we talking about? You know what I mean? So they were nice about it.

Speaker 2 What would that be like getting

Speaker 2 no, no, no, no shade, pun intended being thrown on Hampton cops. But when you decide you want to be a police officer, what is that?

Speaker 2 Do you say, well, I want to be a police officer in the Hamptons because you love the town or because you just don't want, you don't want the heat? You don't want the nonsense.

Speaker 1 You don't want a lot of crime? I think a lot of them grow.

Speaker 1 A lot of the officers i've talked to are local like grew up here and i gotta say i honestly to a person every one of them that i've ever talked to and met has been super super nice and that's not shocking yeah yeah no they've been really really nice and they yeah and and that's kind of the consensus they're super responsive and imagine the personalities they have to deal with out here each

Speaker 2 and they're trying to they're trying to nab those little girls running lemonade stands that are skimming right they got to watch out for them

Speaker 1 um

Speaker 1 like what what's their beat Skinny. Their beat is they do everything.
You know, they deal with a lot of, unfortunately, there are a lot of issues that happen here.

Speaker 1 People come on vacation here, so a lot of people feel like no rules. A lot of people drink and drive, which is a terrible thing.

Speaker 1 It's my worst, honestly, kind of, if it's not to get too dark, but the thing I like, the sound I like the least is the sound of, obviously, an ambulance at night.

Speaker 1 And you'll hear it late at night, because especially if it was somewhere way down the, you know, way

Speaker 1 at the end of the island, and that you know that there's been some terrible accident. You read about it in the local local paper the next day, and it's just absolutely heartbreaking.
It's absolutely

Speaker 1 absolutely heartbreaking. It breaks my heart.
So it's such a small town. Everybody knows everything.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But also just like, you know, because people feel like, oh, well, I'm just going to have four glasses of wine and get behind the wheel of my fucking rolls or whatever.

Speaker 1 You know, and it's sad. It's really, really sad.
But also,

Speaker 2 has there been festivities for the Big Jaws anniversary out there? Isn't that

Speaker 2 where they supposedly shot the the film?

Speaker 1 No, that was Martha's Vineyard, though. Well, that's close, though.
Oh, right, right, right. But

Speaker 1 I did see

Speaker 1 a couple days ago a whale breach about 100 yards off the beach. It was unbelievable.

Speaker 2 Wait, does that mean jump up and slam down to a belly flop?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Like a massive, like just.

Speaker 1 Are you sure that wasn't fill-in-the-blank joke here?

Speaker 2 What fat person you want to take a run at, Sean?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, who?

Speaker 1 Go ahead. You can fill in the blank.
God bless, no.

Speaker 1 Oh, God. But I did have something.
Sean, you talk about breaching every time you have Sloppy Joe, don't you? You're always like, when you're making a run for it.

Speaker 1 We got a breach.

Speaker 1 Wait, but I do have a really quick medical thing happening, or do you want me to wait till later? No, give us some of your coffee chat stuff.

Speaker 1 So today, because I'm not feeling well, and so I woke with a sore throat and whatever. So I went to the.

Speaker 2 Wait, maybe there's something wrong with your C-PAP.

Speaker 1 No, I didn't bring it. What? I didn't bring it.
What? Truly?

Speaker 1 Truly. Wait, I don't understand.
Hold on a second. Don't you.
Because I'm going to sleep on my side or I sleep up now.

Speaker 1 I can't deal with it. And what do you do? Just get like duct taped into position?

Speaker 2 Hey, but wait, I've seen a commercial for a guy.

Speaker 2 He's in a

Speaker 2 downtime.

Speaker 2 Yeah, there's a guy that's in like a circle, like a support group for CPAP dudes, and they're all wearing different flavors of CPAPs, and they come to him

Speaker 1 and he's just got a clicker. He's got a flavor.

Speaker 1 Is yours flavored?

Speaker 2 He's just got a clicker in his hand and he doesn't have to wear the hose. And so what is that? Have you looked into that?

Speaker 1 No, I'm not. I have no idea what you just said.

Speaker 2 The dude looks pretty great and you can avoid the duct tape.

Speaker 1 Anyway,

Speaker 1 you have it flavored like a watermelon flavor. You know what I mean? Just like a little I would, well, that would be, yeah, that would be, that would make it better.
Anyway, anyway,

Speaker 1 my voice is. So you're sweet.

Speaker 1 So I go to this doctor at this this place, and that was recommended. She was fantastic.
And she, so I go in, and I've never, it must be an English thing.

Speaker 1 I go in, she's like, okay, take your clothes off. And Scotty's sitting there with me.
And I was like, sorry? And she goes, well, I got to check. I got to check you out.

Speaker 1 And I was like, wait, sorry, this is. You go, did you just take my shirt off?

Speaker 2 This is for CPAPing?

Speaker 1 No, this is just, I have a sore throat. Sore throat.
This is just like, yeah. She just wanted to check out.

Speaker 2 A sore throat after one night, you go to the doctor?

Speaker 1 Well, because they're going to go in the other way to make sure that it's not that

Speaker 1 they got to make sure both ends.

Speaker 2 Does this person have an office or is it something with wheels?

Speaker 1 This is in the park. Sorry, one more time.

Speaker 1 Carry on.

Speaker 1 It's next to the ice cream truck. So

Speaker 1 I go in there and she needed to check me out because I have a new patient, right, in England, right? And she was sure. So I go in there.
She asks me, I go, you want me to take my shirt off?

Speaker 1 She's like, yeah, and I go my pants too. She goes, yeah.
So I was like, this is so weird. And so I lay down flat.
Frankly, it's just a drawstring at all times, so you keep going.

Speaker 1 So, I lay down, yeah, and she's you know, she's the tap on the thing and the tap on the chest and everything. She's checking my thing, and then she's fully clothed right now, right?

Speaker 1 She's totally fully clothed.

Speaker 1 She lifts up my underwear and just goes, All right, I just need to chuck out a testicle. She grabs my balls and I was like, Under your underwear, she doesn't yes, she grabs them with her bare hands.

Speaker 1 And I was like, Wow, what? Was she able to see through the dust?

Speaker 2 Did she snap a glove on at least?

Speaker 1 I don't remember. I think she

Speaker 1 went into a blackout. Yeah, I did.
I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe it.

Speaker 2 And so what was the prognosis?

Speaker 1 No, it's fine. I'm just

Speaker 2 oh, Scotty, heartbroken.

Speaker 1 I'm straight. Yeah.

Speaker 3 The prognosis.

Speaker 2 So just a sore throat, you'll be fine?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm on antibiotics now.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 okay. Why does she have to feel my ball? Old story.
Anyway, go ahead.

Speaker 1 I just thought that was really odd. Like, I've never had a hey, Jay, listen.
You got something to look forward to tomorrow night. You're going to get a sore throat when you get to London.

Speaker 1 I'll be doctor. I'll play the doctor.

Speaker 1 Oh, you know the

Speaker 1 drill now. So don't be surprised.

Speaker 2 Did you get like a bulk visit type of thing? Is there a punch card that I can use one of those?

Speaker 1 You know, one of your free visits? Yeah, I'm practically going tomorrow again.

Speaker 2 All right. Guys, today, our guest.

Speaker 1 Oh, it's

Speaker 1 guest. Yes, sir.

Speaker 2 Today our guest is an actor, a comedian, a radio host, and a pioneer in podcasting. In fact, without him, we wouldn't be here.
Having released over 1,600 episodes, 600 million downloads to

Speaker 2 a 16-year run, he has decided to put it to rest to move it onto WTF. WTF.
Here to tell us how he did it and hopefully how we can suck a little bit less is the goat himself, Mr.

Speaker 1 Will? Mark Marin. Mark Marin.
Please, Mark, reveal yourself.

Speaker 1 So we didn't need to send you a microphone.

Speaker 2 Is that right?

Speaker 1 When you said we wouldn't be here without, I was immediately, I was like, it's Mark Maron.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's not Dak Shepard, although we appreciate.

Speaker 3 You mean Dak Shepard Marin?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wait, you're the dad? We found him.

Speaker 3 On some level, I'm the dad. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You are the dad.
I'm the goat.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 This is awesome.

Speaker 3 I'm using my own microphone, but thank you for sending me the one I'll never use.

Speaker 2 Did we really send you one?

Speaker 3 Yeah, they sent me one. They were panicked, I guess.
They were like, no, no, no. Mark doesn't seem to know what he's doing.

Speaker 1 Well, they heard you were done with your podcast, so they sent it. Yeah, so they sent me one of these.
Of all these. Which I'll give to you.
Hey, Bennett.

Speaker 2 Bennett, Rob, turn your mics on. What are you doing?

Speaker 1 Why are you sending a microphone? I'll send one to Mark Merritt. You were giving misinformation.
It's like sending a hockey stick to Wayne Gretzky. Like, what are you doing?

Speaker 1 When I got it, I was like, are you fucking kidding me?

Speaker 3 What am I going to?

Speaker 2 I guess I'll use this. You know what it is?

Speaker 3 It's our start gift.

Speaker 1 I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 We used to send them out during COVID, but

Speaker 3 we weren't as generous. We'd put them in a self-you could send it back to us when you were done using it.

Speaker 1 Sure. Well, we're just silly over here.
Well,

Speaker 3 it's been great. I was listening to the opening.
It's, you know, exploring the dark side of luxury problems.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Super relatable.
That's what we are. We try to stay as unrelatable as possible, and I think we're doing swimmingly.

Speaker 3 Exciting medical story. I enjoyed that.

Speaker 3 It reminded me of when I was coming up as a comic, you always had to do morning radio.

Speaker 3 And you'd be sitting there, you know, waiting for a break before you'd go in with this morning crew, just figuring out a way in, you know, hearing what they're talking about and just panicking.

Speaker 1 Like, I got a story on that.

Speaker 3 I'm going to start with that.

Speaker 2 That is the thing that I worry about with this, with this silly thing, whatever we're fucking doing.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 it's like morning zoo or whatever, like whack.

Speaker 3 Even when we get into the questions and the stuff, like, I don't want to be like a guy who's like obnoxious and always just waiting for an answer that i can make fun of ship is safe sorry buddy supposed to be a conversation oh no morning zoo i think that's what uh you know the medium has uh sort of uh birthed you know just you know a hundred thousand mediocre afternoon drive time radio hosts i mean right it's true anytime i scroll on my phone on instagram reels it's like three or four white guys talking about the last time they shit their pants as adults

Speaker 1 i listen to that i listen to that Mark, talking about it. So true.
I know.

Speaker 2 In fact, I think I've told that story, maybe it's either on yours or on Dax's. But great, talk to us about that.
Like,

Speaker 2 can you reflect? And we'll probably ask you a few times during this about that. Like,

Speaker 2 what you started is

Speaker 2 obviously it's an enormous

Speaker 2 business and

Speaker 2 path to employment for a lot of folks nowadays. So we collectively can thank you for that.

Speaker 2 But how do you feel that it's are you proud of this sort of industry that you've created?

Speaker 1 Or is there blood on your hands? Yeah, I don't think that's it. I don't think,

Speaker 3 well, you know, it's once you create the bomb, you know, you kind of wash your hands of it.

Speaker 1 Like,

Speaker 1 you're Oppenheimer, man. You're Robert Oppenheimer.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Yeah, you know, but it's morphed away from something that was really,

Speaker 2 you know, this one-hour conversation or longer. That, I mean, obviously, Rogan still does that.
Dax does it, but it's

Speaker 1 like three hours. Jesus.
I don't know what to do. It's hard.
It's watching

Speaker 2 It's hard to do that really well.

Speaker 3 Well, of course, how? I don't think that there was a single way to do this.

Speaker 3 The only thing that I know in terms of starting it the way I did, I did it specifically the only way really I knew how and the way that my emotions guided me to do it.

Speaker 3 And when we started it, there was no real podcast medium. There was a few of them around.
It had been around a while.

Speaker 3 And the way I did it, the way it evolved, was just my style and kind of this idea of candid, authentic, vulnerable interviews.

Speaker 3 You know, I think it created a zone through which some people could do that.

Speaker 3 But I mean, it got more interesting when people were doing, you know, full-scale radio shows or crime shows or multi-miced guys. It was never, there was never a format other than a mic.

Speaker 3 So because I did it the way I did it, even when you guys, or at least two of you, sorry, Sean, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 Just pile on.

Speaker 3 But, you know, when people were coming to my house, it was like, you know, where am I? What neighborhood is this? What are we doing? Is there a camera?

Speaker 3 And it was really, there was nothing binding me to any sort of style or context. But I think because of the reason my timing was good cosmically for once in my life, that it took off.

Speaker 3 So this was one way to do it. And I think if anything, my particular way of doing it made a lot of people think, you know, like if that idiot can do it, you know, I'm getting mics.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 1 but also you have to, well, first of all, you brought up, I mean, you, you, you're a comic and you've been a comic for a long time.

Speaker 1 You've been doing it, you know, at the highest level for a long time. So you know what you're doing.
You're a funny dude and you have to be able to move it along.

Speaker 1 We're, we're lucky it took three of us to do what you did by yourself. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 I guess, but the one thing that I was excited about was I wasn't beholden to that.

Speaker 3 You know, I'd done some time on radio, and once I learned how to talk on a mic by myself for long periods of time, that was a pretty big breakthrough. So that kind of served me in the podcast realm.

Speaker 3 But a lot of my monologues are not really funny. They're pretty honest and they're pretty, you know, visceral and they are directly related to my life.

Speaker 3 And it gets, you know, deeper and sometimes and others. But I wasn't beholden to comedy.

Speaker 3 So what for me, what it really became was engaging with a person without a real plan to see if we could get a conversation going and figure out where we met in terms of our issues, our problems, our lives and whatnot.

Speaker 3 So what I was really sort of hoping for was connection. And that's really what I think made what I do kind of different.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 There is no situation.

Speaker 1 But you did so many firsts. I remember a couple of things that stick out that I remember.
I remember hearing before I listened, hearing that you got Obama on was really huge.

Speaker 1 I remember everybody was freaking out about like, that was the first time somebody had done something like that, gotten a president to come on the thing.

Speaker 1 And then you did the live shows too, of which I did one of them actually in Brooklyn at the Bell

Speaker 1 as well, in addition to the going to your house.

Speaker 1 And that was like, I was like, I remember you getting the call saying like, Mark's doing this thing at the bell of this live in the pie. I was like, what could that be? Oh, it was different.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and it was different. It was cool.
I was like, oh, okay.

Speaker 3 But the reason for that really was, you know, Obama was later, but the live ones, there was no way to make money doing this, you know, at the beginning. There was literally no way.
I mean,

Speaker 3 advertisers weren't forthcoming. You know, we were using kind of old terrestrial radio middlemen to get like sex toy ads and and audible.

Speaker 3 Yeah, our first ads were like Adam and Eve. You know, you'd get a free package of God knows what.

Speaker 3 And you had this other advertiser from an older show we did, Just Coffee, but there was no way to generate income.

Speaker 3 And unless you wanted to sort of do a, you know, pay to listen kind of thing, but then you wouldn't build an audience.

Speaker 3 So the live shows were things we did separately and we created a different website so people would pay for them. There's no way to make money.

Speaker 3 So the live shows were kind of an income generating thing. I mean, at the beginning of this thing, at my old house, house, we were just doing a tiered donation thing.
This was before,

Speaker 3 you know, what's that platform where everyone you get paid on?

Speaker 1 GoFundMe?

Speaker 3 Yeah, not GoFundMe, the other one where you have a site where people can pay, whatever.

Speaker 3 Everyone has a Patreon OnlyFans? Yeah, Patreon. So there was no Patreon.
So at the beginning, we just offered tiered donations.

Speaker 3 And if you gave a certain amount of money, I'd send you a t-shirt and some stickers.

Speaker 2 And my house was filled with a thousand envelopes, you know, stuffing t-shirts because because there's no way to make money oh my god i remember that i remember your assistant there working at a table just fucking stuffing envelopes yeah yeah that's right that's right it was it was crazy but the obama thing that was a whole other thing but i mean that was crazy in terms of the medium that kind of put it on the map yeah it kind of uh and how did that come about was it was legitimized and that was a result of your numbers being such that his team took notice of you and and suggested recommended to him that this might be a good spot for him to hit.

Speaker 3 I don't know if it was numbers per se as much as it was profile. And I think that really it came down to then that there was a fan in the Ovo office.
I mean, an intern. I don't know who it was.

Speaker 3 Got it.

Speaker 3 But they thought it would be good.

Speaker 3 It was his last year, second term.

Speaker 3 He didn't want to be a lame duck, I don't think. And he thought it would be, or someone in his world thought it would be a good look to kind of do this.

Speaker 3 And I remember when my producer, Brendan McDonald, was like, Obama wants to come on. And I'm like, so what?

Speaker 3 I'm going to the White House? And he said, no, he's coming to Highland Park.

Speaker 1 I'm like, that's fucking crazy.

Speaker 1 Walk us through that project. I always wanted to know that.

Speaker 1 Because we had the opportunity of doing it with Biden.

Speaker 1 But what was that like? But we went to him and we went through all the protocols and stuff. What was that like them coming to your neighborhood, to your house?

Speaker 1 Completely unsecured. It was crazy.

Speaker 3 Well, at first, I had a trip planned and I rarely take vacations. So I told my producer, I'm like, I don't know, you know, I'm supposed to go to Hawaii.
He goes, no, you're not going anywhere.

Speaker 3 Well, the thing was, you know, the first things we had to think about was the way we do the show, which is not a political show.

Speaker 3 I mean, I can do that, but we had, both of us had come out of Air America.

Speaker 3 And from the beginning of the podcast, we were like, we're not doing a political show because I don't want to carry that water.

Speaker 3 You can't really do politics with your own voice because you'll eventually end up just carrying whatever load it is of talking points for whatever party you're affiliated with.

Speaker 3 But the thing was, is I like, we got to make it a personal interview. You know, he did go to college down the street, at least for a couple of years.

Speaker 3 He knows the neighborhood and we had to really structure it more than we did. Which college did he go to around Highland Park? Yeah, at Occidental.

Speaker 1 Oh, right.

Speaker 3 So, you know, we had to structure it.

Speaker 1 Oh, so not on purpose.

Speaker 3 No, we had to structure it in a way.

Speaker 1 That was for Sean. That was for Sean.
Occidental. Sean loves that stuff.

Speaker 1 Sorry, Mark. Low-hanging fruit is still fruit for me.
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 throw the baby some candy every once in a while.

Speaker 1 We'll be right back.

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Speaker 2 And now back to the show.

Speaker 1 So they come two weeks before and they strip search or...

Speaker 3 Here's what happens. So I end up going to Hawaii

Speaker 3 and reading his book. And in the meantime, Brendan, who is in Brooklyn generally, flew out to meet the Secret Service to create a perimeter.
And so you get all these Secret Service guys at the house.

Speaker 3 And apparently, you know, Brendan was in the garage and he had a couple of guys on the roof jumping on it to figure out whether they could, you know, post guys up there.

Speaker 3 And Brendan was like, no, no, it's coming down.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 3 I had to ask my retired neighbor if we could put snipers on his roof. And it was like the greatest thing that ever happened to him.

Speaker 3 He was thrilled to be involved. But, you know, the sort of the day of the...
The one thing that was scary is they put some sort of weird, humming black box in the one spare bedroom.

Speaker 3 That That was a small house, if you remember. It's like less than a thousand square feet.

Speaker 1 I remember the black box too. Guys, remember when we tried to put our coffee on it? No.
And they said, don't touch that thing. Why?

Speaker 3 I remember when we were at the what it is, it's like if all communications break down, that thing has a line into some sort of, you know, a secret satellite network.

Speaker 1 Right. Oh, I see.

Speaker 3 Wow. So they got to put that in.
And that was kind of, that was kind of the most menacing thing. And I remember like the day of,

Speaker 3 wow. So the day of, there was like at least 15, you know, Secret Service people.
And then we'd set up tables on the deck there. It was my biggest fear was that that house had one toilet.

Speaker 3 And I'm like, where's he going to go to the bathroom? What if someone needs to go to the bathroom? You know, I got to clean the bathroom, whatever.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 3 we set up a table with listening stations for

Speaker 3 the White House people, for Brendan, for whoever else needed them. So there was like four or five sets of headphones out there.
And the amazing thing about Obama, that he, there was no pre-interview.

Speaker 3 We didn't have to get any approval of any questions. He was completely confident and lucid, and he knew what was, you know, he knew what he was getting into.

Speaker 3 But the funny thing was, is that the Secret Service is coming in with the dogs, and I got these cats. And I'm like, hey, is there any way you can skip the house? I got cats.

Speaker 3 I'm going to put them in the bedroom, but you trust me enough to leave the cats in the bedroom? Now,

Speaker 3 well, they said yes, and they let me off the hook, but I don't know if that's going to get them in trouble, but I think they're probably out of the game anyways. But anyway,

Speaker 3 so I'm, we're waiting now. You know, know, we're all in a waiting position.

Speaker 3 My producer, he wore a sports jacket. He's very proper food.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And they're in all the secret services there. And I'm waiting on outside.
And I said, how are we going to know they're coming? And we'll give you a heads up when he's 20 minutes out.

Speaker 3 So what he was doing, he was flying from Beverly Hills in the Air Force 2 or whatever, the helicopter.

Speaker 1 to the Rose Bowl to park there, which is about 10 minutes from my house.

Speaker 3 So they're like, well, that's better than stopping traffic in the entire fucking city of LA.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So they said... They'll go to Mark's garage.
Yeah,

Speaker 3 exactly. They cleared the street of all cars.

Speaker 3 Some neighbors were pissed.

Speaker 3 The Republicans were pissed, but

Speaker 3 the rational people were like, this is great. They're going to line the streets.

Speaker 3 So they said, 20 minutes out, we'll tell you. But then all of a sudden we see the helicopter.
It's two ospreys

Speaker 3 that kind of fly in front of the helicopter. And we could see them in the sky.
I'm like, all right, well, he's close. So

Speaker 3 I'm just waiting at the gate and

Speaker 3 the motorcade pulls up and there's this flurry of people coming up my driveway.

Speaker 3 I don't even see Obama. And then I see him and he just, he's in the middle of this crowd.
He waves like, Mark. And I'm like, Mr.
President.

Speaker 3 He walks up and he's like, are we going to have a good time? I'm like, I don't know.

Speaker 3 But then, you know, we go into the garage. They only had one Secret Service guy at the door behind me.
They had some sort of flack mat.

Speaker 3 That was another weird item that they actually left and I had to get back to them. That kind of like, if there's a, an attack or something, it kind of pops up and protects him.
Wow.

Speaker 1 But it was all, you know, it was intense.

Speaker 3 And I just tried to, we had to cover some politics up front because there were things unfolding. But then it was a fairly standard WTF interview.

Speaker 3 And the funniest part about it was that when he sat down, you know, you know, I said, so you nervous? And he said, you know, something like, if I was nervous about this, we'd all be in trouble.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 He was pretty forthcoming, though, yeah?

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah, forthcoming enough.
You know,

Speaker 3 he's a genuine person. What he was was very, very disarming and very candid seeming and

Speaker 3 willing and thoughtful. But what's interesting is that it was better to do a personal interview with him because he is kind of wonky.
And if you get into politics, it can get a little long.

Speaker 3 And we only had an hour.

Speaker 3 So we were able to kind of

Speaker 3 do it. And then for some reason, he chose, I'm sure, very deliberately, to say the N-word on my show.

Speaker 3 And that, and that, yeah, in relation to, you know, he was like, you know, racism isn't over just because you can't say the n-word. And he said it.

Speaker 3 So that guy, you know, a flurry of international news. So I had to deal with, you know, news crews in front of my house.

Speaker 1 But my yeah, there aren't enough t-shirts and stickers to handle that. Yeah.

Speaker 3 But my producer was very calculating in terms of the press we did. He's a very smart guy.
We, you know, we didn't engage with any of them.

Speaker 3 We just did, we did Chris Hayes and we did Terry Gross, and that was it. And I don't hear from Obama at all.
He's got my number, but

Speaker 1 I feel weird texting him.

Speaker 2 But, you know, I mean, look, the fact that you, A, were able to book him says a lot about

Speaker 2 the spirit and the content of your show.

Speaker 2 But your ability to get him to do a personal interview and to get him to be forthcoming really speaks to... sort of, I think, what makes you so great at what you do.

Speaker 2 And are you comfortable trying to maybe kind of speak to that and maybe dissect that a little bit? Because, you know, this one-hour conversation, you know,

Speaker 2 there needed to be at some point a confidence from you about me just freestyling and then having somebody sit down and me just kind of pop back and forth with them and have a conversation as opposed to being an investigative journalist

Speaker 2 needs to be compelling. And I need to assume that that's going to be entertaining.

Speaker 2 What made you think that

Speaker 2 your hot takes on things and your personal kind of the way in which you can drive a conversation would be something really compelling because it it is yeah what gave you the right to think you could do Westmark like when did that when did that happen for you just because I know you've spoken in the past about

Speaker 2 you know whatever the right words would be about you know

Speaker 2 your your degrees of social comfort and and what and what fuels your stand-up and your cynicism and stuff which I share with you like a lot of that doesn't lend itself to being a conversationalist.

Speaker 3 Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 I think

Speaker 3 how it evolved is that

Speaker 3 I am innately and almost immediately codependent with any personality that sits in front of me.

Speaker 1 So it's just by virtue of my upbringing, I don't know what.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 there was the way it sort of started, and this is one of the reasons why we're winding it down, is that I'm kind of all in no matter what I do.

Speaker 3 My stand-up is provocative and and personal and sometimes a little cringy. And just my basic demeanor in terms of

Speaker 3 what I want to talk about and what I feel comfortable talking about and my need to connect with people is sort of ingrained in me. And I'm willing to volunteer a lot of myself.

Speaker 3 And I think that the conversations that

Speaker 3 in the beginning, I was literally having comedians over to apologize to them.

Speaker 3 So I, you know, for being a dick or whatever I thought my problem, you know, my issues were or whether they were mad at me. So

Speaker 3 style unfolded with me trying to

Speaker 3 get resolution and make amends, and this and that. And also, I think the way I characterize it is generally the first 100 episodes were me having celebrities over to talk about my problems.

Speaker 1 So, right, right.

Speaker 3 And that became a way, you know, it's very disarming when you offer yourself.

Speaker 2 Yeah, when you pull your pants down, it's everybody feels kind of safe and like, okay, so I guess we're going to be honest.

Speaker 1 I love it. Yeah.
Yeah. Oh, when you pull your pants down, everybody feels safe.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Confident. Yeah.

Speaker 3 But so that's how it sort of evolved. And it's a need for me because I don't, like, my preparation is just getting a broad view of who people are, what they've done.

Speaker 3 And, you know, it's evolved over time in terms of how I handle certain interviews. If somebody has

Speaker 3 an amazing, if just an older person, with a large bulk of work, I'll forego

Speaker 3 the really personal stuff to really talk about the work, but you know, it all gets mixed in.

Speaker 1 Well, let me ask you,

Speaker 1 has it changed the way you

Speaker 1 I'll ask all of you guys, and I don't know if I have an answer.

Speaker 2 I'm going to say all y'all.

Speaker 1 All y'all.

Speaker 1 Has it changed?

Speaker 1 I'll speak for myself first. I think that doing this over the last five years, which is just

Speaker 1 kind of odd to me.

Speaker 1 Right, but think about that.

Speaker 2 We've only done 300 episodes. He's done 1,600.

Speaker 1 No, I know, I know. Amazing.

Speaker 1 But for sure.

Speaker 1 But for us, for the last five years, certainly for me, I can only speak for myself, that it has changed a little bit the way that I talk to people.

Speaker 1 I don't just mean people out in the world like, hey, I'm a fan. I mean just like people in general.
It has, this has shaped a little bit

Speaker 1 how I interact with people to a certain degree.

Speaker 1 It's not the driving, but it has become a big part of who I am now having these conversations and talking in this way for whatever reason, for better or for worse.

Speaker 3 Well, it's interesting because you guys are all actors and

Speaker 3 part of that craft, from what I understand,

Speaker 3 about 90% of it is being present and listening.

Speaker 3 So whether you were used to doing that in your real life or not, who knows? But I mean, it is a tool that you all have to be present and listen.

Speaker 1 That's applicable to this.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 And it's a real thing that, you know, because we're all kind of self-centered guys and, you know, you kind of, you want to get your word in.

Speaker 3 you want to you know you're kind of half listening but once you start to engage your your empathy and your ability to shut the fuck up uh you find that you you it it is the foundation of connection right yeah and and i think that does change i i think that i'm so afraid to talk now keep going no you go

Speaker 1 i'm kidding i'm kidding

Speaker 1 no you go

Speaker 3 but it for me it took a lot to do that and some people still are sort of like why don't you let the guests talk and i'm like because it's my show so

Speaker 3 and also, you know, over years, you've got to, you know, when someone's going into a public narrative. And some of those are deeper than you can imagine.

Speaker 3 There's ways that public people talk that, you know, there are sometimes I know like, well, I know this story has been told God knows how many times, but maybe my listeners, you know, haven't heard it.

Speaker 3 But if it's something that I'm like, well, he's, you know, or she's, you know, kind of autopiloting here, I'll interrupt until I can get them off of that and get them into some other place.

Speaker 1 Did you ever get that thing?

Speaker 1 Well, first of all, did you ever

Speaker 1 read comments

Speaker 1 when you put stuff out on social, like to promote the show?

Speaker 3 I try not to.

Speaker 3 But, you know, it's kind of addicting.

Speaker 3 I don't check the numbers. I don't know what the...

Speaker 3 When Twitter was a viable thing, I would look at those, and that would be upsetting. And it took me years to learn not to engage.
I have an email.

Speaker 1 I used to follow you on Twitter, and you would sometimes engage, and I would see the stuff that you would say. It's a nightmare.
Yeah, it's a nightmare.

Speaker 1 But would it change, would it alter the way, because I remember I haven't looked in forever.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it expanded my self-consciousness, you know, which is just what you need.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you know, exactly.

Speaker 3 You take in just random bullshit trolling and you're like, that guy kind of nailed it.

Speaker 1 I got to be aware of that.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, we used to have that, exactly.
And I used to have that early days. It would be like, and people I'm sure still do it.
They're like, I wish Arnett would shut the fuck up.

Speaker 1 Why is he talking or why is he interrupting? And they're like, well, by the way, the only thing I can remember. Yeah, turn it off.
And it's your show.

Speaker 3 As opposed to like, you know, honor Hawkwind 2's comments about you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 Some guy with four followers in the UK. You're like, oh, geez, I got to reassess my whole life.
Some idiot sitting at a computer.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 3 There is a sense for some reason, no matter how old you are,

Speaker 3 we're older, but you see one comment on a social media platform and some part of your brain goes, the entire internet thinks i suck yeah and it's like one idiot right but but but still if it's a bad morning you know you got to fight the urge you know hey so mark so when when you started wtf um you'd obviously had i used to listen to you on air america all the time and you you'd done a bunch of other things that what what made you

Speaker 2 take us back to what the landscape was for the medium yeah um of podcasting uh like what what made you think that there was even money there that there was an avenue there

Speaker 3 I'm not a money guy. For better or for worse, I ended up with some, but it's never been my driving motivation.

Speaker 3 My motivation with comedy and with this has always been like, I want to be seen and heard because I don't know who I am.

Speaker 1 Yeah. So

Speaker 3 I am building a sense of self here, and I want you all to be involved.

Speaker 3 But at the beginning, we had, Brendan and I, Air America collapsed.

Speaker 3 And, you know, and we, you know, I got pushed out, you know, to LA and I did an evening show that no one listened to for a while, but then it just went away. And, you know,

Speaker 3 like at the same time, I was going through kind of a miserable divorce and there was a outreach from Air America. They're like,

Speaker 3 we want to pull you back in to do a streaming show. And this is before streaming.
This is like 2007. No one knew what streaming was.
So I'm like, fine.

Speaker 3 And I said, can you give me this amount of money so I can pay her off so I can, you know, get my life back? So they gave me this money to pay her off.

Speaker 3 And then they gave me this job at Air America doing a streaming show with Sam Cedar that no one could really watch.

Speaker 1 Sam Cedar. Love Sam Cedar.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 I haven't seen him in so long, anyways.

Speaker 3 So it was me and Cedar doing this show that crapped out in a year and we knew it would. And I was like devastated and heartbroken.
So I was kind of useless.

Speaker 3 But we were at the studios at Air America that version of it, which was a very kind of broken down version. And once our contract was up,

Speaker 3 they fired us, but we still had like two months on the contract. And being good liberals, they're like, well, you guys can use the offices, which is unheard of when you do a radio job.

Speaker 3 They usually don't let him near the mics,

Speaker 3 take away his card and get him out. But they did.

Speaker 2 Didn't Jenny Garofilo have a show on Air America as well?

Speaker 3 Not then.

Speaker 3 No, that was the original one. But

Speaker 3 this was when they had like Montel Williams and it was a, and, and who's that other guy? Lionel, that weirdo. So, and we were just in this office doing a streaming show.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 And so we're out of a job. And I said to Brendan, my producer, I said, look, man, there are these podcasts.
There's a few of them.

Speaker 3 You know, Corolla had moved his radio show into the podcast form, but it was really just a radio show. I think who was around? Jimmy Pardo.

Speaker 1 Ricky was doing one like Jervis was like every once in a while.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, he was around, but there was only about five that had any profile, really, five or six. It was pre-Rogan.

Speaker 2 And it came, and you could only find it on the Apple iPod itself, which is where it gets its name, podcasting, right?

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 3 that's the thing is that, you know, Apple at that time, I said to Brendan,

Speaker 3 can you figure out how to do this? And

Speaker 3 maybe we should do it.

Speaker 3 And at that time, Apple just wanted anybody with a name to do them, and they'd get behind you because it's not a platform as much as it is just, you know, like it's not a server.

Speaker 1 It was also,

Speaker 2 it was part of the thing to like actually sell the hardware, the iPod itself. You could only get on this next example, this new device that they were launching.

Speaker 1 That's right. Wow.

Speaker 3 Wow. So they kind of got behind us and we were kind of.

Speaker 3 That's the first thing I've ever learned from jason yeah yeah joy wow it's all about that dude same with apple tv you know it's like that's just about getting people to get apple tv ultimate buy hardware yeah wow so

Speaker 3 so we started bringing you know kind of going in after hours we had cards we knew the night tech and we were bringing guests up the freight elevator and and it wasn't really the same show at the beginning but it was all just sort of i needed to keep doing something i thought my my comedy career was nowhere i certainly wasn't acting and i you know after i didn't you know i didn't know what to do with my life.

Speaker 3 So it was kind of a Hail Mary, but there was no way to make money.

Speaker 2 It must have been scary. Was it, was it a scary time or were you kind of comfortable with your, your, your set in life?

Speaker 3 Well, I knew, I knew that for whatever reason, I was good on these mics because I, you know, I knew that, and Brendan knew that as well, that there was a way, who knows why anyone's going to be good on these.

Speaker 3 Right. But there was a way I kind of approached it that was very sort of immediate and honest and sort of searching.

Speaker 2 Did it feel like your last shot, I guess, is my shot.

Speaker 3 Sure.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, like, I used to make a joke about it that I, you know, when I moved out to LA and I set the mics up in the garage, I was like, this is the same garage I thought about killing myself in.

Speaker 3 No, no, but I had no expectations. There was no money expectation.
It was just me trying to do something.

Speaker 3 And then, you know, through weird timing and just, you know, trying to focus on building a social media presence, getting people who have that on the show.

Speaker 3 And then because the celebrity press had become kind of anemic,

Speaker 3 you know, they people were locking in because I was doing their job for them. So Vulture was there.

Speaker 1 What was the moment? What was the moment where you looked at Brendan or looked at yourself and said, hey, we have something here?

Speaker 2 We have some traffic on social media. People are listening to the show.

Speaker 3 Well, that was starting to happen, you know, because Vulture picked up on it pretty early.

Speaker 3 And then I think when we had, you know, when I went up to the Bay Area to interview Robin Williams, you know, there was a couple of pretty big shows.

Speaker 3 I mean, and we had, you know, fairly big people social media-wise, but I think the Robin interview, because it had never been done before, you know, before that or after, I mean, when he passed, you know, a lot of people were using that pieces of that interview because it was a rare thing and it was hard to get him.

Speaker 3 And he was very protected and very insulated in terms of, you know, how we were going to do it. And ultimately, I ended up driving up there.

Speaker 3 I did a lot of those kind of interviews early on where I talk in the car on the way. But when I got up there, you know, it was just him and his house and an assistant.

Speaker 3 And I think that people didn't realize when if you're if if Robin is was in front of more than two people or two at least, it was going to be a show.

Speaker 3 So when it was just one guy and also a comic and also a guy willing to connect and talk, it was a completely different sort of Robin experience. But if there were one other person there,

Speaker 3 it would have been wrong because he would have just started jumping around and improvising. So I think that one really was a big interview in terms of,

Speaker 3 you know,

Speaker 2 because people were hearing a quality from him that they

Speaker 2 were not used to.

Speaker 3 Yeah, never. It was quite, it was, it was, it was pretty insane, man.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 We'll be right back.

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Speaker 2 All right, back to the show.

Speaker 1 And Mark, now that you've done it for so long, and I mean, it's so impressive. I think Jason said 1600 episodes or something like that.

Speaker 1 And it's become part of your identity and you're, you know, all you've done all these years. And now you're wrapping it up.
Talk about that. Like, is that, are you going to miss it?

Speaker 1 Are you going to think like, well, who am I now? And what do I do? And I think, I think so.

Speaker 3 You know,

Speaker 3 it's a weird thing with the ego in terms of the world we live in and what anyone considers relevance or irrelevance.

Speaker 3 I was talking to Owen Wilson the other day about it because I'm on that show with him and we were talking about stopping the podcast. And he quoted some Salinger quote that was like,

Speaker 3 I don't have the courage

Speaker 3 to be just

Speaker 3 unknown

Speaker 3 or just an average person.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 I think like

Speaker 3 what's happening is the show has always really been about the arc of my life. On the base level, it's been about me and you know, and I talk to people.

Speaker 3 And I think at this point, you know, because we put the amount of work we do, Brendan and I, it's just always been the two of us. And he's a very specific, very gifted audio producer.

Speaker 3 It takes a lot of time to put these shows together twice a week. And

Speaker 3 people don't know that. But sometimes he'll spend like hours with an interview, kind of finding a theme, trimming it,

Speaker 3 maybe moving things around. It's so funny how many people have listened to their interview and are like, God, I really nailed that thing.
It's like, it took Brendan four hours.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we feel the same way about Robin Bennett and the guys who Michael Terry who work with us.
They mean the same thing, and they're really good at it. They're the best in the biz.

Speaker 1 Let me answer that real quick, Will.

Speaker 3 Let me just answer Sean real quick.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 I apologize. I'm known for interrupting, of course.
That's okay, me too.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 the thing is, is like, yeah, I am nervous about the time,

Speaker 3 but viewing it as a piece of work as opposed to content and sort of really assessing the need to keep plowing along just because you can

Speaker 3 was sort of a conversation. We got a deal with a platform, ACAST, and that we were in that for years, and it kind of made us the money that I think we deserved after working on it so long.

Speaker 3 And now that's coming to an end. And we were talking before that about winding it down.
And our agreement has always been like, well, I'm going to go as long as you go.

Speaker 3 Whoever cries, Uncle, first, then we'll just honor that. But the truth is, I'm.

Speaker 3 There comes a point with me, because of the way I do it, where maybe I'd like to have a little bit of a private life.

Speaker 3 Maybe I'd like to not worry about which pieces and bits of my life or past I need to kind of bring up in order to satisfy what I do and the audience I've created

Speaker 3 who find a lot of comfort and a lot of,

Speaker 3 I've helped a lot of people unknowingly, you know, get sober, not commit suicide, deal with authoritarianism. You know, there was the way I do it, it was very comforting to a very specific audience.

Speaker 3 So there's part of me that thinks like, well,

Speaker 3 I owe them. And they kind of live in your head, and that gets a little emotionally exhausting.

Speaker 3 So I think that by viewing it as an amazing piece of work, you know, of 16 years of a thing that never diminished in its quality and always had the arc of me and

Speaker 3 always was always interesting and engaging every episode, that to sort of say, oh, we're done with this part of our lives kind of, it kind of is good for the legacy of the thing as opposed to being one of those people where it's like, is Marin still doing it?

Speaker 3 That's crazy. You don't want to be that guy.

Speaker 1 Right. You know, right, right.
But do you like what I was going to say was, you know, when you hear like

Speaker 1 an athlete retires and they say you're going to miss the game? And what's funny is they always say, you know, I'm going to miss the guys. I'm going to miss being in the locker room.

Speaker 1 I'm going to miss the people that are,

Speaker 1 you know, I don't know anything about your relationship with Brendan, other than you've mentioned him a bunch and he was obviously integral to your show.

Speaker 1 I mean, that relationship is now going to change. Have you guys talked about that, how that's going to shift?

Speaker 3 Well, you know, it's weird. I've been working with him since he was 24 and now he's 44.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 3 And, you know, we met at Air America and he was an associate producer. So, and the very odd thing about Brendan and I is that he's, he's actually, you know, part of my brain.

Speaker 3 Like, you know, I do these interviews and then I send them to him. And my memory of them is of whatever I remember that day, but he spends hours with all of them.
So I rely on him to remember things.

Speaker 3 And also, he's a very brilliant guy, you know, with politics and film. He's really the smartest guy I know.

Speaker 3 And he's a great producer because he helps me frame things that I'm thinking, you know, which is usually intuitive. And then, you know, he can give it depth.

Speaker 3 But over the years,

Speaker 3 it's always been a professional relationship. We're not really in each other's lives.
He's more in mine because he hears me talk about it all the time.

Speaker 3 But we have, you know, it's one of the only relationships where the boundaries are healthy. There's full respect there.
We're 50-50 partners, and I don't

Speaker 3 lean on him for personal stuff unless it's really pressing. So, and we've never had a fight

Speaker 3 since I've known him once. And it's just so that relationship, he'll be there for me

Speaker 3 if I need him, but he needs a break. But I just think, like,

Speaker 3 what you're saying is true, though. This show is a foundation.

Speaker 3 It's a big part of my social life.

Speaker 3 It's a big part of my spiritual and soul life in terms of engaging with other humans who are creative humans and really talking about life, which I think is important to do in one's life.

Speaker 3 But I was doing it also as my job and outlet. I am going to miss that.
And I imagine that I should really give a heads up to my two friends that it's going to be hard for them for a little while.

Speaker 1 Do you feel that you're leaving Mark Marin in a better place than where you found him when you started?

Speaker 3 I hope so because Mark Maron is going to be 62 years old in September. And

Speaker 3 I just did,

Speaker 3 it's weird. And I know you guys have got it.

Speaker 3 You guys seem to have

Speaker 3 probably a more expansive work ethic than I do.

Speaker 3 But I don't know. I just did a special, you know, that's going to premiere on HBO August 1st.
And it's really probably the best work I've done as a comic. Oh, that's great.

Speaker 3 I've done this thing for 16 years and I'm very proud of that as

Speaker 3 a singular thing.

Speaker 3 And, you know, I wouldn't say I'm tired, but I'd like to see where I am without these responsibilities a little bit or without them being pressing all the time. I don't know.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 it's an interesting thing.

Speaker 2 i mean yeah you you're you know you mentioned the that special in hbo and you you mentioned stick um with owen and the you know i love that film you were in that justin cruzel directed the order of the law it was just incredible and

Speaker 2 your your your career is

Speaker 2 uh interesting it's not even ascendant ascendant doesn't sound uh it doesn't sound as respectful as i mean it to be but you're you're on your things are great for you so you probably there's a part of there's a part of this while you're winding that down it's almost because you might not even have time for it anymore because like shifting

Speaker 2 yeah and this and also it seems like uh correct me if i'm wrong like you're kind of allowing yourself to be a little bit um

Speaker 2 more in a healthy way selfish with your life and you're you're you're saying well i don't want to lend my personal life out anymore and monetize it.

Speaker 2 I want to keep my power inside and kind of enjoy being me. And

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 3 It sounds like a really healthy place that you're that's that's where I'm trying to get, you know. You know, I don't know if panic will fit in.
You know, I'm not great alone.

Speaker 3 You know, I don't have a wife. I don't have kids.

Speaker 2 You know, you got cats, Mark.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I got a few cats, and that's that's a whole other thing, dude. You know, I don't know what I'm going to do with Charlie, but anyway,

Speaker 2 I got a real fuck of a cat.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 3 the hard thing about cats is like, at least kids grow up. The cats are like, they're just going to be that.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 3 you know, there's no teaching it new things or anything.

Speaker 3 But yeah, I think that's true, Jason.

Speaker 3 I think

Speaker 3 that is ultimately what is happening. And as you get older, you give less fucks about certain things.

Speaker 3 And the acting and that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 The way I see it is that, you know, I do, you know, I've been able to do everything I wanted to do only because I did this one thing on my own

Speaker 3 got me out in the world. And I've somehow managed to remain kind of under the radar.
I don't have like, you know, the, the weight of celebrity on me. You know, I'm kind of chipping away.

Speaker 2 But you're on top of the radar with those that you, I, I would imagine, uh, respect, admire, the audience you've actually been shooting for you have. And that's, that I think is really admirable.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I mean, like, I try not to, like, I know, I know, I kind of know exactly who I am and what my,

Speaker 3 not so much shortcomings are, but there is an element because I have friends who are big, big, you know, stars in comedy or whatever.

Speaker 3 And there's always that little party that's like, fuck, why am I not playing arenas? And it's just sort of like, dude, could you imagine the weirdness of doing what you do in an arena?

Speaker 3 I mean, I do a joke about it.

Speaker 3 I say, like, I think I could play one arena centrally located in the country somewhere, and I could bust my fans in, you know, like, you know, buses for Marin leaving out of Whole Foods parking lots in these cities.

Speaker 3 That's so funny. But so I do know who I am, and I do know

Speaker 3 the reason I am who I am has something to do with some fears, but maybe those are good. Maybe those are self-protecting, you know?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 So now the question is:

Speaker 1 what's day-to-day? Like, what are you going to, what do you want to do? Like, if you had your drothers, if it was like, hey, man, which you kind of do,

Speaker 1 what's the deal? Is it wake up?

Speaker 3 I'd like to try try to figure out how to enjoy myself. I mean, you guys seem to be able to do that.

Speaker 1 So, what's the path to that? Are you going to learn how to paint? Are you going to learn how to sing?

Speaker 3 Well, look, I do a lot of things.

Speaker 3 I've been playing guitar with people. I'm playing, you know, I get together and sometimes I do music shows.

Speaker 3 I've found the courage to sing in front of people, and that's sort of daunting and interesting. But you know what I really like to learn how to do?

Speaker 3 And I don't know how to do it. You know, like when I act, you know, I think I do okay with it.
You do.

Speaker 1 You're great. Well, that's nice.
You are good.

Speaker 3 And I just did a feature, an indie feature, where I'm the lead and I kind of, you know, I kind of manned up and pulled that off. We'll see if it gets out anywhere.
But nice.

Speaker 3 But, but there's this thing.

Speaker 2 Wait, is that is that the one with Judy Greer?

Speaker 3 She's in it. And

Speaker 3 Lily Gladstone's in it. Sharon Stone.
Awesome. Alan Ruck.

Speaker 1 Oh, awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 Michael McKean.

Speaker 2 That's called in Memoriam?

Speaker 3 Yeah, dude. It's funny.
And I watched a Final Cut. And let me ask you this, two questions about acting since we're here.

Speaker 3 when you watch yourself is it are you always sort of like the fuck like why'd I you know I could have you know

Speaker 1 like

Speaker 3 I mean you can watch the whole movie but you're some part of you is really focused on like why'd I do that with my eye you know like

Speaker 2 I will I will say that the fact that you're doing that, that you're watching and you're, and you're, and you're, you're, you're being honest with yourself and you're just, that's, you, that will make you an incredible actor.

Speaker 2 I, I've learned so much from seeing how bad I am on things and adjusting for the next challenge.

Speaker 1 But don't people say you're good, though?

Speaker 3 Aren't they telling you that it's good?

Speaker 2 Yeah, but you know. It doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 But are we right?

Speaker 2 Yes, I'm saying you need to, I think you need to watch yourself. And there's so many talented actors that I work with that never watch themselves because

Speaker 2 they're afraid that they're bad, yet they're so good. And I keep saying, you're denying yourself like this, this great treat.

Speaker 1 But Jason, I think that you have a unique ability.

Speaker 1 I really mean this. And I don't know if it's because you've been doing it since you were a little kid.
So it's just so ingrained into who you are.

Speaker 1 But you have a really good ability to separate and be objective. You really, really do.

Speaker 1 It's an honor. It's a memory.

Speaker 1 It's a great quality.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so you're able to go and look at stuff. And now also because you have that,

Speaker 1 because you direct. So

Speaker 1 your ability to be objective about

Speaker 1 your place in the story, understanding where you are is, I think, unique. I don't think everybody has that.

Speaker 3 I know, just thinking about what Jason does, like with the, with the directing and then with the act, like I'm getting anxiety thinking about his career.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 3 like I can't even fucking wrap my brain around it. You know, like,

Speaker 3 but here's the question that is kind of eating at me. It's like, I was sitting with Judy at some junket for Stick because she's got a part in that too.
Oh, wow.

Speaker 3 And she said to me, she said, you know, the way you handle that character was very unique because most people would have went broad with it.

Speaker 3 And I said to her, I said, I don't think I know how to go broad. And she goes, I don't think you do either.
So some part of my brain is like, I got to figure out how to get broad. You know,

Speaker 3 how do I become a broad comic actor? I don't have any. It's so funny.

Speaker 1 By the way, I was just thinking, I saw a video on social media this morning.

Speaker 1 Sean, I don't know who, I think the play posted it of you just playing piano. Oh, yeah, I saw that.
Within the last couple of days, the Gershwin.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the Gershwin thing. And Sean, and Sean's about, he's in London.
He's about to do his show in the West End.

Speaker 1 Good night, Oscar. At the Tabasco or the

Speaker 1 barbecue. At the barbecue, sorry.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 Sean, and you're just sitting down.

Speaker 1 You're playing. You're not playing in front of anybody.
And you just start playing. And honestly, God, and not to embarrass you, I thought, this fucking guy is so fucking talented.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, it's true. And I thought, like, I couldn't do that if you gave me a million tries.
Yeah. Yeah.
And you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 And I'm just thinking, like, god damn it, like, what am I doing? I'm fixing my bike in the garage.

Speaker 3 I'm going to order a piano on Amazon, right?

Speaker 1 I literally went to get a new wrench at the hardware store and then rode back and couldn't figure out how to use it. And was trying to get them to raise my handlebars.

Speaker 3 Yeah, for a half hour before you called the guy to fix it, right?

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 I did it. I got the scars to bring.
I did it wrong, and then my seat kept going down. Anyway, and Sean's there playing, making beautiful art.
And I was like, oh, goddamn it.

Speaker 1 That's really nice.

Speaker 2 I think we all have gifts, and we've all lucky we're all lucky enough to be able to share them yeah it is pretty great mark you know like you you whatever your innate talent is you have found uh a lane for it a platform for it right um you know a place to apply it and and and doing such good for so many that listen to you and i'm i'm very happy for you that you are deciding to

Speaker 2 you know spend a little of that on yourself and reinvesting and you know and leave on your term and leave on your terms and also

Speaker 1 And I reject the idea, just before, I also reject the idea.

Speaker 1 And I know you say it because it's kind of a funny one-line, like, you know, that people, you inspired, that people thought, well, if Mark can do it, I can do it. That's not true at all.

Speaker 1 I think the opposite is true. I think that you inspired people.
Oh, that's nice. It's true.
And you grew this medium so that dumb-dums like us could do it.

Speaker 2 And that your tone and your quality and your honesty and your vulnerability

Speaker 2 was a viable format.

Speaker 3 But I think

Speaker 3 the other thing I want to know is because comedy, look, I watched my new special and I like it. I have complete control

Speaker 3 out of that of that craft. And it's the best work I've done.
I know that. That's great.
And with this thing, but with comedy and with podcasting,

Speaker 3 it's all driven improvisationally.

Speaker 3 It's all going to create itself in real time.

Speaker 3 And with acting, that's different. So then all of a sudden you got a script and you make choices and all that stuff.

Speaker 3 But I don't know really where, none of my imagination goes into creating fiction or creating things outside of myself. Everything I do is impulsive and comes from, you know, the need to connect.

Speaker 3 So I'm kind of curious, do I have creativity that is more disciplined that I can apply in another way? That's the big mystery.

Speaker 3 Can I apply my talents to something that isn't essentially marketing?

Speaker 1 Have you ever sat down and written? Have you ever? Yeah, I write every week.

Speaker 3 I don't love writing.

Speaker 3 It's exhausting. But I write a thing every week, reflections that are sort of poetic, and I put that out into the world.

Speaker 3 And I've done the writing, but my comedy is sort of formed on stage and in real time until it sort of sets. And then I leave room for new things to happen.

Speaker 3 Like I did the special. And

Speaker 3 I usually start with like an hour and 45 minutes that I tour with for a year and a half. And then three weeks before I got to shoot, I got to get it.

Speaker 3 down to like 70 minutes and and figure out what the callbacks are and then I leave a little open space for things to drop in the days before or even that night. So it keeps it alive.

Speaker 3 But I'm very confident in that craft. And I'm very confident in this talking on the mic thing.
But like with acting, or

Speaker 3 I've set in motion,

Speaker 3 I'm going to direct a film based on my buddy Sam Lipsight's book.

Speaker 1 And hopefully

Speaker 3 that'll happen.

Speaker 3 But that's a little daunting and scary, but I guess I'm not afraid to take the chances.

Speaker 1 It sounds like,

Speaker 1 of course, you've got creativity. What are you talking about? You're doing it all.

Speaker 2 Yeah, in answer to what I think your question is about the application of what you heretofore have been doing, which is basically freestyling, improvising.

Speaker 2 You are coming first and then the words follow, right? That's your writing for stand-up. You're freestyling on the microphone, your podcast.

Speaker 2 How do you apply that same level of

Speaker 2 accuracy, authenticity

Speaker 2 into something that is, by its own definition, pre-written, right? A movie, a script.

Speaker 1 Or outside of myself, yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah, how do you find that level

Speaker 2 of Mark Maron in acting? I will say that you are allowed when you take on a character to make that character simply just another part of who Mark Maron is. You know,

Speaker 1 there are goalposts.

Speaker 2 You're far right, far left of who Mark Maron is. And then you just find whatever version that character is closest to you inside of those goalposts.
So you're still being Mark Maron.

Speaker 2 It's just the words are written beforehand, and you got to find the version of you that fits those words. And so you're still kind of

Speaker 2 you're still

Speaker 2 exhibiting who you are

Speaker 2 and should still be able to find some enjoyment.

Speaker 3 Right. Yeah, I get that part where you kind of turn things off or turn things on within you.
I get that with the acting.

Speaker 3 My question is, like, can I do something like if I direct, you know, I don't have a vocabulary for that. I don't have a style.
So that's completely outside of me.

Speaker 3 And I'm just going to have to figure out what that is.

Speaker 2 Can I could I don't need to do that on the first one, just just exercise taste and just sit there and watch the results of other people's work and say yes to this, no to that, a little more of this, a little more of that.

Speaker 2 It is the one person on the set that doesn't have a job, so you don't really actually need to do anything.

Speaker 2 I'm not suggesting that's the right way to be a director, but I've worked with a million that work that way. It's very common, so you need not be overwhelmed with I got to do a bunch of shit.

Speaker 1 Walk before you run and just sit there and just be the arbiter of taste you know right okay well i can i i i will do that yeah and you can do that you've got great taste i've learned a lot from jason today yeah i'm pushing some amazing

Speaker 2 who's this guy i'm starting my own podcast next week i wanted to tell you guys about

Speaker 1 i'm listening to it are you kidding me i can't wait holy it took us 300 episodes to get through to you i've arrived

Speaker 2 wait if it wasn't for mark you know that name how about this this is the first interview, a first guest I've ever had, that I didn't get to one single question. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And we're already six minutes over one hour. So that is a testament to you, Mr.
Mark Marin, knowing the gift of Gab, knowing what you're doing, keeping the conversation going.

Speaker 3 Can I share one story, though, for Sean?

Speaker 1 Please. Yes, please.

Speaker 2 Wait, Sean, are you still here? Yep.

Speaker 1 There he is. I took a bathroom break.
I'm back.

Speaker 3 Well, he talked about the doctor that did the full examination for the sword.

Speaker 3 I went into one of my old guy physicals, you know, I guess it was probably last year. And now

Speaker 3 for the prostate test,

Speaker 3 they only do the blood test. And like, so, you know, I.

Speaker 2 Finger's gone?

Speaker 3 Right. Well, that's, I didn't know that.
So the guy said, I said, well, are we going to do the...

Speaker 3 the finger thing?

Speaker 1 Not for me.

Speaker 3 And then he goes, he says, no, no, we don't do that anymore. You know, they do it with the blood.
I'm like, well, is that effective?

Speaker 3 I mean, you find that the results, he's like, yeah, no, we just do the blood tests. He says, I can do the other thing if you want.

Speaker 1 So I'm like, well, I would feel better.

Speaker 1 I would feel better if you did.

Speaker 3 So I requested a finger bang from the doctor.

Speaker 3 And he did that. He did.
And my diagnosis is it's not clear.

Speaker 1 He needed to go back in.

Speaker 1 You said, go ahead. Why don't you go ahead and toss a ring on, too, before you get in there?

Speaker 2 He said he'd like to see you again next week.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. He's here.

Speaker 1 You're a little bit of a hypochondriac, though, like I am a little bit.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah.
Well,

Speaker 3 I grew up with a doctor father, so it was a real way to get attention. Like, you know, I think I have cancer.
So

Speaker 3 but yeah, I've got, I, I, you know, I got a, you know,

Speaker 3 I got a handle on it. You know, it doesn't happen as much.
And when it does happen, it runs pretty deep. Like, you know, like, I can usually say, like, just wait a couple of days.

Speaker 3 It'll probably go away, that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 But if I really lock into, I think I have cancer,

Speaker 3 I'll go all the way through it and I'll sit in my bed and just sweat, you know,

Speaker 1 man, me too.

Speaker 3 Anticipating the nothingness.

Speaker 2 That's called intelligence and

Speaker 2 being creative,

Speaker 2 the ability to sort of like create these scenarios in your brain that are.

Speaker 3 That's how I use my imagination, just all driven by panic and fear. I'd really like to free it up.

Speaker 2 You know who doesn't have panic? Dummies.

Speaker 2 You know, it takes a lot of intelligence to like create this like funny thing.

Speaker 3 No, but don't they seem to be a little more happier than we are when they're not talking about it?

Speaker 1 Oh, that's blissful ignorance.

Speaker 3 When they're not talking about Q and I.

Speaker 1 The happiness is not as profound. How much? No.
Okay.

Speaker 3 Well, that's a projection, but hold on to it.

Speaker 1 Mark,

Speaker 2 we love you and we thank you.

Speaker 1 Incredible.

Speaker 1 You're the greatest.

Speaker 3 Thanks, guys. I really appreciate it.
And you guys are doing great.

Speaker 1 Thank you, Mark. Well, thank you.

Speaker 2 You please keep on jamming. And

Speaker 2 will you consider at least maybe doing a special once a year or something, just to,

Speaker 2 and I don't mean the incredible specials on, yeah, yeah,

Speaker 2 come back.

Speaker 2 Well, that seems to be

Speaker 3 people updates. Well, I have to figure out, like, I think there's other ways to do it.

Speaker 1 You know, maybe it's the podcast version of the Letterman Show. You know what I mean? Where he does like,

Speaker 3 I could do that, but then you're kind of like, who's, you know, my, my producer, and I don't really do much without him, but I think there is a world where, you know, I could at least, you know, maybe

Speaker 3 after a little time off, you know, get on the mic, you know, once a week just to talk without people.

Speaker 3 That might happen. I don't know.
know.

Speaker 2 We want it. We need it.
Please do it.

Speaker 1 Thanks, man. Yeah.
All right.

Speaker 1 Okay. Thanks.
All right. Thanks.

Speaker 2 Best of luck to you, my friend. Thanks for coming.

Speaker 1 Thanks, Mark. Take care, you guys.

Speaker 3 Good luck with the show, Sean. Break a link.

Speaker 1 Thank you, pal. Thank you.
Appreciate it. Bye.

Speaker 2 Bye, Mark.

Speaker 2 Boy, that Mark Maron.

Speaker 2 I mean, like, you know, so Willie, Sean, unfortunately, you never did a show, but Willie, doesn't it sort of, you just sit there, you listen to him, and he just kind of rocks you into this place of like,

Speaker 2 oh, I just want to tell you everything about me.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
You know, he's just like, well, he just almost like a therapist, you know?

Speaker 2 Yeah, but without being solicitous, he's just, right, he just kind of goes first, and there's just like this nice quality.

Speaker 1 He just starts talking, and you're just having a conversation. You forget that you're doing it, and all of a sudden, you're telling him stuff that you haven't ever talked about in that way before.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's a really talk about gifts, though. Like, that's his gift.
Is like, you know, like it was very nice of you to say that, Willie, but like, we all really do have gifts.

Speaker 1 And his gift is to just be able to constantly keep a conversation going, be interesting, never not be curious.

Speaker 1 He's always curious about every single person, and it's really an intelligent conversation. You get sucked in.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm glad that at least he will always have

Speaker 2 his stand-up to sort of just just.

Speaker 1 I'm excited for his new stand-up special. That's going to be great.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is, he mentioned it earlier, but just to make sure,

Speaker 2 it's called Panicked, and it's going to be on HBO August 1st.

Speaker 2 And then it'll stream on the Max after that.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 I'm such a big fan of his. Yeah, same here.
Michael's always been such a good dude. And I figured, you know, Sean, you're mentioning the gifts.
And, you know, he has that.

Speaker 1 And Jason, we talked about your gifts. And Sean,

Speaker 1 you have your gifts.

Speaker 1 And I don't know.

Speaker 1 I wasn't given any gifts, but you know what? Hopefully, one day I'll be in a position where I'll be able to buy one.

Speaker 2 That was pretty good.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Bye.

Speaker 1 Bye.

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