#591: No More Favors!

That's the goal at the end of the day.

It's not to

put something out that people don't like, but that's it.

That's the

How did Uncle Fred go?

He's had a at a great white show.

Once Bitten, twice shy.

You're not familiar with it.

But he was an aquarium?

You've seen sharks?

Yeah, not quite.

Not quite.

Some shitty metal band from the 80s.

Tell him, Steve, Dave.

Hello, and welcome to this week's edition of Tell him Steve Dave.

I'm here with Waltz.

Hello.

I'm not here with BQ, though.

No BQ this week.

We are here, however, with the man, the myth, the Maverick,

Ming Chen.

Hello, everybody.

Round of applause from Ming Chen.

Wow, what a turn of events.

Yeah.

How so?

I mean,

rarely, I wasn't applauded in, you know, not for the 31 and 33 and the third.

Episode 200.

Like, yeah.

Well, you're a rack's the richest story, and you really are.

I mean, you, you

most unlikely podcasting guru.

Yeah, I guess so.

When you think about it, it all started with an offhand suggestion from you, right?

You were like, you and Mike should do it.

Like, I want to see you and Mike do a podcast.

And then, you know, that suggestion goes on to, you know, his own studio, multiple studios, multiple podcasts, awards.

Yeah.

You know, podcasting on

all seven continents?

Yeah.

I mean, I'm sure it has.

Has it happened yet?

I'm sure it has, yeah.

You podcasted on all seven continents.

Not

yet.

On seven continents.

How many continents are there?

There's seven, yeah.

Yeah.

So how many have you podcasted on?

Like maybe three.

All right.

So you're halfway there.

Okay, yeah.

I'm getting there, yeah.

So

let's back it up, though.

So North America.

Right.

Well, okay, North America.

That's it.

I think I'm.

Oh, no, I podcasted in Dubai.

So that's

too.

That's Asia, right?

That's, I mean, that's the Middle East.

Yeah.

But I think it's considered, is it considered Asia?

I don't know.

I'm too ignorant.

If only we had somebody

who knows, you know, but unfortunately, he's not allowed to talk.

Yeah.

He would tell us.

That's because of some Debbie Downers.

Yeah.

And then there are people out there that are like, you should know this.

This is basic knowledge.

You shouldn't have to go to get them.

Hey, I knew there were seven continents.

That's pretty good.

You know?

Yeah.

And then podcast podcasts in Scotland one.

So that's three.

I believe that's three.

That's true.

So what's left?

South America?

That's Africa.

Africa.

Antarctica.

Australia.

Any cons scheduled in the Congo?

None in the Congo.

No, there are no.

Amy, you want pod?

Taken by rebel forces.

Ernie Hudson has kidnapped me.

And we're looking for jewels and podcasts in the Congo.

Why Ernie Hudson?

That movie Congo.

Oh, okay.

We're not the one I have to edit that.

I feel like Gorilla's name is Amy, right?

Yeah, yeah, Amy.

What my pod.

So, what have you been up to, Ming?

We don't often catch up with you.

Yeah, no, it's been a busy year so far.

Two cruises.

Two cruises.

Yeah, we never caught up on the View of Skew Cruise.

How'd you do on that one?

Because I know on

the Joker's cruise, you had a good time.

I had a great time.

Yeah, big smiles on our faces.

Both of ours, man.

I've never seen you so happy.

It was great, man.

Had a good time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's a a shame that it's only like five days out of every four years that I get to smile like that.

I mean, it's beat zero.

Like before it was zero.

Yeah, zero would suck.

Yeah.

Yeah, the View Scoot Cruise was good.

It was different for sure.

Yeah.

And yeah, it was fun though.

But, you know, no one, true, threes, no rap, no rap battles, no Jimmy the Hair guy.

Why not, though?

Why couldn't you just get a rap battle going?

Just grab somebody in the, you know, maybe Dante

and be like, I'm challenging you to a rap duel right now.

Let's go.

I'm not even supposed to be here today.

Yeah, I don't, it wouldn't have been as exciting as me versus Jimmy the Hair guy.

Did you perform at all or were you just on the cruise?

I had one job.

They did a Mauritz 2 script reading, and I was given a part on page 47 of the script,

the part of Podcaster, podcaster in the movie.

And they were under a strict time limit.

They ended at page 43.

I think it might be typecast.

Really?

Yeah.

I think it might be typecast as a podcaster at this point.

That's fine with me.

Fine with me.

But yeah, the script reading ended before I got to my lions.

Really?

So

you had to do anything?

You got that free?

I got a free cruise to do, and I had to do nothing.

Yeah, it was free.

You can't beat that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Everything's coming up.

Ming.

It is.

It is.

You commandeered the ship and took it to Africa so you can

take off one of the continents that you need to pot on.

Check all right.

We're going to Antarctica.

Check.

Let's go to Australia.

Like the D.B.

Cooper of cruise ships.

Not as exciting as a cruise, but I went to another Blue October concert yesterday.

Oh, really?

Where is this one at?

This one was in Englewood, which is so fucking far away from where we live.

Like, I thought, like, when I heard Englewood, I thought for some reason it was like probably up around like exit like 150 or something.

I was wrong.

It's it's almost like the exit before the George Washington Bridge.

Oh, so it's up there.

A lot of traffic.

Yeah, there was traffic

both ways, even though we got out at midnight.

What, Mr.

Heavy Breather over here?

Oh, he sounds like someone's putting their marathon over there.

You don't sound good.

People are going to be complaining that they can hear him off now.

There's no way you can hear him off now.

How many total is this for you?

I think it's like five.

Five Blue October concerts?

I've seen Blue October more than any band that I actually like.

Wow.

Yeah.

So, like, at 10, do you get like a bathrobe or something, or like a challenge coin?

You better get something, man.

And he pointed out the beard again because we're close enough.

Right.

And she was like, because I said to Mary Beth, I was like, come on, man, I don't want to be that close.

I don't want any attention.

It's just weird.

You know, it's just weird like every time.

And

she was like, no, no, we're in row B.

There's row like A, A, B, B.

And then, you know, it goes to B.

But like AABC, that was it.

And then it was A, B.

So like, I'm

from

there.

I think, though, those guys, there's no way they think it's weird.

They're just happy that someone's willing to pay that often to receive them prices, you know, to sit that close.

they're grateful they're not they're not weirded out they're just like thank god yeah thank god they're still coming out is it the same set list every time no no they just came out with a new album and uh i really thought i was not gonna like the opening band they're called the veers

and and uh I was like, I'm not, because I don't like opening bands generally.

Like, I'm not a live music kind of guy unless I know the band.

Like, if I know the band, then I'm into it.

But if it's like

music that I'm not familiar with, I just, I can't get into it.

I'm not like one of these people that dance around.

Well,

that's very telling, though.

You are unwilling to

give something a try.

There's a lot about like, you know, like, you know, there's a, like, you're not even willing to give it a shot.

You're just like, I'm not into it.

And you don't even know.

You haven't even heard a note.

And you're just like, nope, it's not for me.

Yeah, it's not for me.

I got a guy right over here.

Complete opposite.

There's not a chance on the planet.

You'll give anything a try, right?

It's for me.

Almost anything, yeah.

How do you know you're going to like it or not if you don't give it a try?

Exactly.

Well, you can say that about a lot of stuff.

You don't give everything a try.

No, no.

Some stuff you're pretty sure you're not going to like.

According to you, I do.

You're going to put

everything in my mouth.

And

there was a moment of.

I have to say, I'm almost a little ashamed.

That I was, because Mary Beth is so into this band.

It's like when I'm like, because I sit down at certain points because I'm like, I'm not standing the whole fucking time.

And I'm watching her, and she's just has the biggest smile on her face, and she's dancing, and she's singing, and she knows all the words, and she's having a fucking great time.

And all of a sudden, like, you notice that, like, the fire alarm things are flashing, you know, like the alarms for a smoke alarm or whatever.

And

when there's a lull in the music, you're like, the fucking fire alarm's going off.

And nobody's.

So so no one can hear it but there's a noise

nobody can hear it because the music's so loud yeah

and um yeah but it flashes so you can at least it flashes but yeah it wasn't really that bright like it didn't like flash that bright like i didn't notice it at first and then i was like wait what's that why is that blinking like that and then i heard i heard the noise and i was like holy shit the fire alarm's going off everybody's still dancing and singing and having a great time the band's playing but then their mics got cut because they had to get everybody out of the theater oh my god and there was a part of me that's like there's no way they're gonna just get everybody out of the theater

and then

come and say everything's good.

That's what I thought.

And in that moment, I was like, we're going to get to leave early.

It was like, it was about like half over, and I was so happy.

And so we're standing outside, standing outside.

It's fucking freezing.

Nobody's saying anything.

It was probably like 10 minutes or so.

And then they're like, all right, everybody can come back in.

Fire department never came.

Like, I don't know.

Like, it's, it wasn't, it was like as nice as the Basie, I would say.

It was a nice theater.

But the first thing I noticed when we walked in, no metal detectors, no wanding, nothing of any kind.

Really?

So you could have walked in

concealing.

I could have had a concealed gun on me because it is New Jersey, so you can conceal carry.

I could have walked in.

It is unusual.

I was almost like, and

it was also.

The whitest concert I've ever been to.

Because at a certain point, I was looking around, I was just like looking at the demographics, seeing what was what.

and I'm like, there's no, there's, there are absolutely no minorities here at all.

Everybody

concert you went to the fucker was what I don't know.

I think I saw at least one or two black male heads there.

Here I was like, this is like, if you said, if you thought you wandered into a clan rally or something, you'd be like, all right, every, everybody's white.

I get it.

The soundtrack by Blue October.

Yeah.

I'm sure Blue October isn't liking this.

Oh, this is how their audience is being described.

They want a little bit of a Klan rally.

It was an orderly dismissal from the fire alarm.

There wasn't no, like, it wasn't like great white concerts.

It wasn't a great white concert.

Like, can you imagine that's how you meet your doom?

Like, you're trampled under

at a bloketover concert.

I brought that up to Mary Beth.

For those of you who aren't familiar with the story that Make's talking about in Rhode Island years ago, in early 2000s, I believe,

there was a great white concert, and they used pyrotechnics

against the club rules.

And the insulation in the ceiling caught on fire.

And it wasn't really the fire, I think, that killed everybody, but the fumes from the burning insulation went down and just immediately knocked people out and killed them.

You know, yeah, it was like 100 brutals.

Yeah, it was like 112 people or something like that.

Yeah, it was nuts.

But I thought people got stuck trying to get out though and burned alive.

They did because it was only one exit.

Yeah, a lot of them burned alive.

It was brutal.

Like,

if you're going to go see in a band,

at least make it a band that's like, you know, a once-in-a-lifetime concert, not some band that like nobody even knows.

Like,

who was it again?

Great White.

Yeah, so I'm saying, like, most people are going to be like, well, how did Uncle Fred go?

He's at a Great White show.

Once Bitten, Twice Shy.

You're not familiar with that.

He was in Aquarium?

You see him sharks?

Yeah, not quite.

Not quite.

Some shitty metal band from the 80s.

Yeah.

Not even the real lead singer anymore, I'm sure.

I'm sure it was one original band member.

Yeah.

Well, I'm glad glad you survived.

Yeah, we survived.

Also

met a 13%er there, Lauren.

Yeah.

Yeah, who

told me privately that she's hoping Gidem gets back after this big court case.

Yeah, I feel the tide is a turning.

Really?

Yeah, I don't know if you've kept up with

TSD, but

there has been a vocal portion of the audience who have threatened financial repercussions.

Yes.

Withdrawing their patron subscription.

If

you were the wallet.

If Giddam wasn't silenced on Mike.

So we are going with a little

trial basis here for a while.

And then

actually, we're going to find out once and for all,

someone's going to make their case to keep him off.

And we have a sexy lawyer now.

I don't know if you've heard.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

I've listened to every episode now.

And he is going to defend Gidham and see if he can make the case to win over the listeners who are stuck.

I hope to be in the gallery on that that fateful day.

I'm sure you might be a character witness.

Oh, wow, okay.

I mean,

not since the OJ trial.

What if the prosecution calls you as a witness?

Will you testify for the prosecution or will you?

I might have a few things to say.

To keep him off?

Not completely.

Not completely.

I don't think he's completely useless.

Was he butting in one too many times?

Maybe.

There's a cranky portion of the audience.

What else is new?

I feel like

I have seen far more requests for his return.

So, like, absence makes the heart grow fonder.

And it is starting to happen.

I see it.

And I knew it would happen.

Okay.

I knew it would happen.

Okay.

I mean, we'll find out soon.

We will.

I don't know what avenues you've been checking for this.

I've got a private email that blows up after every episode with, you know, like, please bring Get him back on.

Please.

Wow.

Enough's enough.

Steve D.

Wow.

Yeah, I hope this shakes out in somebody's favor.

Yeah, the question is, though, because you have people who are threatening to cancel Patreon if he stays.

You have people who are threatening to cancel if he goes.

So

whatever side, you know, quote unquote, wins,

will the other side follow the letter of the law and not cancel Patreon?

Law and tell them Steve Dave Town anyway.

It's hard to say.

Wow.

I don't know how we can enforce that ruling.

If, like, if

we could go after their credit card company and charge them for months that they're not on, that they, you know, they say they.

We'll just dox them.

You want to give away all your information?

Fine.

Oh, how do we get these people back?

Do we all do puck nuts?

People say they want puck nuts, but then when we give them puck nuts and it's pure sports talk, then you're like, I don't listen to sports.

I don't like this.

This is not like the old puck nuts.

And people forget the old puck nuts became

listenable because we weren't even talking about hockey because the devil sucked.

We were talking about anything but hockey.

Yeah, the indoor league.

Yeah, and that's what happened.

And that's why it became

a podcast that people, you know, put on a pedestal for whatever reason is because we weren't talking about sports.

Right.

Those were my favorite times on Puck Nuts when we weren't talking about sports.

Well, I mean, usually sports-related stuff is okay.

Like if there was some sort of criminal NFL player

or somebody got caught doing something they should have done.

That's why we had you on there.

You usually steered us toward that way.

And yeah, it worked out.

It worked out.

Well, I mean, yeah,

I hope everybody comes back.

We'll sing.

I see you work your hands to the bone with all this content.

And all you want is people to love it.

And

not everybody does it.

So that's the goal at the end of the day.

It's not to

put something out that people don't like.

But that's the rub, though.

Some people like something and some people don't.

And it's hard to find that

perfect combination that pleases everybody.

It doesn't exist.

That's why.

It did, though.

There was

on other forms of entertainment.

I've seen it.

I think that you see monster successes out there.

So

that's what you're looking for.

You're looking for monster success.

I've just never seen you guys like cater to the monster success, so what do you mean?

You know,

you guys are more about you.

I do whatever I want, and if it's good, if we love it, then it's great.

I think we talk through, we talk the big game and that's all bullshit.

Do what we want, but then really, at the end of the day, it's just like, I can't believe everyone didn't like

third eye radio.

Fuck those guys.

It's tough.

You know,

your content.

People don't like you.

No, no, but you're a content creator.

Does every video you put out opening up a box?

No, not at all.

Not at all.

No.

I've known that since 2009 when we started this.

Even when I didn't even want to be on here, when I was forced to be on here.

Who forced you?

Well, nobody forced me.

Nobody forced me.

Was I blindsided a couple times?

Sure.

That made it more fun.

I was thinking about that the other day, the emergency pod with Susan and all that.

And I was like, God, I miss those days.

When Ming was in the, was right around the

had easy access at all times.

Yeah.

This is a rarity to have Ming at the table.

Yeah.

It's a blessing.

Absolutely.

A fucking Maverick.

The second time we've had him since he was named, right?

Yeah, I guess so.

Do you go to the cons with the Maverick trophy?

No, I don't bring the Maverick trophy.

You don't bring it?

It's too fragile.

It's too fragile.

Oh, you got to get a replica that you can bring.

Hey,

can you talk to the guy who made the skulls for you and see if we can get Minnie Maverick broke?

All you got to do is get a 3D 3D printer.

Yeah, I guess so.

If anyone can help me out,

we have plenty of listeners who can help you out.

Though they hit you up at Twitter,

MinkChen37.

Okay.

Yeah, we'll get it.

Maybe not 20,000.

No, no, you only want one, right?

Well, no, no.

I can make like, you know, like 500 or something.

What do you got to do with them?

I'll sell my cons.

You too could be a Maverick, like Mink Chen with a mini replica version.

I learned from that, I learned.

That's a great idea.

Yeah.

Yeah.

People will definitely buy it.

Yeah.

I also learned, yeah, I'm not going to make like $25,000 a little bit.

That's the first eight years.

You don't make too many.

Like Funko.

Don't overestimate the demand.

Right.

Yeah.

But you can, yeah, you can sign it at the bottom of it.

I could present it to people.

Yeah,

that's a great idea.

Yeah, Maverick Jr.

is all out there.

Yeah.

Maverick Jr.

Yeah.

You get them a little certificate, Maverick, and training.

Right.

Yeah, endorsed by Ming Chen.

I put it out there on social media that we had a Maverick and a guru, podcasting guru coming on the show, and I asked for questions about people ask questions?

Not to you, just about podcasts, and the art and business side of it.

Okay, sure, sure.

And I have some questions unless you have

a question.

Okay, let's get into something, Brian?

No, I don't have anything to get into.

Except that I guess, well, I guess by the time this comes out, we'll know about the overkill.

Who won the poll?

Who won, yeah.

So far, it's not looking too good for

Will Rogers.

No?

No.

Looks like a landslide

from where I see it.

Yeah.

A lot of people, it seemed like, we're reading the comments, it seemed a lot of people, they like his voice and they enjoyed some of the stuff he brought, but Tom seemed to get it more than Will did.

And then there are people who are like,

why don't you split it and let them both share duties?

It's possible, you know, the night before the end of the poll that, you know, Tom is sitting there looking pretty

all of a sudden, and then, you know, there's some

chicanery

or not.

Possibly, probably.

I heard the word arrogant douchebag thrown on her own.

Oh,

we're not going to talk about Mike.

We're not going to do it.

So let's see.

Yeah, what do you got here?

Okay.

So these are some of the questions.

And they didn't know it was for you.

Okay.

Because I didn't want them to treat it as a joke.

I said that we have somebody coming in.

First question.

How does Mike taste?

Right.

But I want you to treat it seriously.

I think people are looking for real answers.

This is not something that you're trying to

make people laugh.

First question to the Maverick.

What's going to make a new podcast stand out in the sea of new podcasts and popular established ones?

Wow.

Wow.

Is this too hard?

That's a good question.

Because

he actually goes to schools and stuff, and you lecture on podcasts.

I do, yeah.

I go to school every time.

So somebody posted that question on you, which you're like, whoa, wow.

Start sweating.

Yeah.

I don't know, man.

There sure are a lot of podcasts out there.

Yeah.

You know what the tough part is?

You know,

because everyone wants to get popular right away, right?

Yeah.

Overnight success.

Overnight wants one.

And yeah, the only way you're going to do that is if you're already fucking famous already.

So, you know, the big ones that get famous real quick, like Kevin and fucking Joe Rogan or anything.

Office ladies.

Office ladies.

Anyone who's any actor who starts one usually takes off pretty big.

Unless you're Amanda Bynes.

I mean, if she kept at it.

I don't know.

If she kept at it.

Yeah.

Poor Amanda Bynes.

Poor Amanda.

You're telling me.

Yeah.

So, yeah, other than that, you got to keep going, man.

It could take years.

Could take years.

Okay, but that's not an answer.

That's not even the question.

Yeah.

What's going to make a new podcast stand out in the sea of new podcasts and popular established ones?

You're just saying, all you've said is it's going to take time.

It is good.

Yeah.

Okay, but that's, but what is it?

What's the secret sauce?

Come on.

Oh, for Christ's sake.

Fire alarms.

Don't make it.

Oh, it's Blue October all over Amber Alert.

Get out of here.

Yeah, it turned out I think it was their smoke, their fog effects and shit like that.

Oh, really?

I think that's what did it.

There was so much like you could, like, you know how you can sort of like taste it in the air sometimes when there's too much?

Yeah, that's the way it was.

Yeah, I mean, other than bigger.

What's something that you can point to?

I mean, you got to do something vastly different from everybody else.

But

I can't really pinpoint pinpoint one podcast that started in like the first three, five episodes, like they got big that came out of nowhere.

Well, I think you're right.

I think people want it to be big right away, and they want to make merchandise right away.

A lot of people are like real into making their merch.

Right.

Yeah, but that's just, you know, they think if you make merch, it makes you look bigger.

Okay.

Yeah.

I mean, you got to come up with something like super different from everybody else.

I'm going to, I'm going to ask it one more time.

Okay.

What's going to make a new podcast stand out in the CPU podcast and popular style podcasts?

I think, like, if you launch a podcast and I know who shot JFK and it comes true, like, that'll, that'll, that'll make you famous right away.

You got to have some kind of bombshaw.

Okay, so you need to have something

like that.

So, yeah, or like, get picked up on or trend.

Yes.

Well,

I think you're answering the question, too, in as much as if you're not already famous or well-known,

it's probably not going to happen.

Like, people, people have asked me many times, how do I get to, like,

Mr.

Johnson, your campaign seems to have the the steam of a runaway freight train or whatever the fuck lisa said yeah um no they're like you know how how how do you do it and i and i i tell them i'm like i don't know i don't know how to get listeners because we were very uh lucky to have the kevin bump right away yeah so it's like it we had that initial bump which was a lot of people and then we built it from there and and you're right it took years yeah so are you saying that like it's not going to happen though i mean because if i took your class it's not going to happen

it would be ever going to happen.

It's not going to happen right now.

It's unlikely it's going to happen.

It's not like it's going to happen right away.

Yes.

I tell everybody that.

I think that's an okay answer because it's like if you're

like a guitarist and you go to like a guitar clinic and it's like, how do I, you know,

Eddie Van Halen right away.

Yeah, I want to be these people right away.

Yeah.

It's like you would have to practice and it's going to take years and you can't expect like unless you're extremely lucky to jump into anything and be a success at it immediately.

Yeah, I'm honest with people who come like, am I going to get get famous right away?

No, probably not.

I'm pretty honest.

All right.

All right.

Questions?

I'm not happy with this answer.

I did have a pod come in.

They've been recording for about a year.

And they're like, hey, we need to talk.

They came in really serious.

They asked you that.

They said to you, we need to talk.

Yeah, we need to talk.

So they came in, we sat down.

They're like, hey, so we've been doing this for a year.

So we're not famous yet.

We want our money back.

Really?

Did you put in the contract that you would promise them that they didn't would be famous?

I'll make you famous, baby.

And the fine prayer.

Yeah, they're like, yeah,

yeah.

Fame guaranteed.

Yeah, they're like, well, we haven't really taken it up yet.

I'm like, well, shared universe promises.

You will be famous within one year.

You're like, go really fast.

You like to speed it up.

You may have a retail dysfunction and

you may have loose stools.

Yeah, and I'm like, well, okay, well,

what did you say?

Yeah, I was like, well,

have you done any marketing?

Have you told anybody about it?

I was like, well, we thought, you know, we thought we'd be famous by now.

We thought you were going to help out with that.

And I'm like, yeah, they thought I was going to help them make them famous.

Wow.

Talk about how could you be that deluded for a year, though?

Yeah, no, they were.

Well, did they expect your name to carry more weight in terms of getting subscribers?

I think that was.

Did you imply that?

I did not.

Be honest.

Absolutely not.

Did you want it?

Come on.

For an extra charge, I can say produced by Ming Chen.

Do you charge?

I thought they thought part of the package was I was going to make them famous within a year.

And I was like, dude, that's not.

I'm like, listen, you know, my analogy was like, listen, you know, Mariah Carey uses a studio to record.

Like, our my job is to make you sound good, you know, vocally, but my job isn't to make you like famous.

That's on you.

Like, you know, Mariah Carey, it's not the studio's job to make Mariah Carey famous.

It's her job.

Caveat Mtor.

Yes.

Exactly.

So, yeah, they didn't come back.

So let's go.

They never never came back after that.

They never came back.

And thank God.

So, yeah, I don't want to deal with that.

That's an unrealistic expectation.

How old were they?

Oh, they're old.

They're in their 50s.

Really?

Yeah.

Wow.

But can they have stars in their eyes, though?

Ming Chen,

TV star, podcast star.

Yeah, look at them.

Look at them.

Could you have given them the wrong idea?

Could you have implied and you didn't even realize it?

No.

No.

Absolutely not.

I did not

mislead them.

I don't know if I believed them that they were going to be as famous as forgetting.

Maybe nudged them a little bit in that direction in the beginning, you know.

Like, we'll do social media, we'll do this, we'll do that, which I did, but yeah, but you know, it's not my

you did their social media, I didn't do that.

No, no, if they released an episode, I would promote it, stuff like that.

But I did.

How did you promote it?

I was like, hey, you know, these guys have a new episode.

Check it out.

Are we famous yet?

Yeah.

You guys probably want to hire private security because I just retweeted that you released an episode.

Yeah, I was like, maybe you should change up your strategy.

Like, do you guys have a top five?

No.

Well, maybe you should try that.

Okay.

All right.

So listen, yeah, it's talking about it.

Also,

you should preface it by saying, like, you shouldn't go into anything with the expectation that you're going to be famous.

Right.

Like, who do these guys think they were going to be?

Like, Joe Rogan or something?

Yeah, that's what everybody thinks we're going to be.

That's

in, yeah, right now.

Again, this question's kind of similar to the first one.

How do you attract listeners outside of any following slash friends slash family you already have?

Well, I mean, you got a couple of strategies.

You can guest on other podcasts, you know, cross over your audience with other podcasts, have that podcast promote yours.

You know, and you got to go in the real world.

If you go to like, you know, networking events or cons, you know, you got to tell people you have a podcast, man.

A lot of people release these things.

They don't tell anybody.

Well, the reason is because nobody wants to hear it.

It's like, I got a podcast.

It's like, yeah, join the fucking club.

Everybody does.

Yeah, so you got to have some kind of hook.

But yeah, if you want an audience outside of whatever you have, you got to go to that.

You got to go to those people, man.

So you got to promote outside of that through

social media.

I go to like network events.

I hand out cards and shit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

All right.

That's a better answer.

Or the cons, yeah.

Than the first one, which is like, I don't know.

Yeah, but yeah.

I go to a lot of cons, so, you know, promote at the cons and and shit.

We do panels, so

promote out the panels.

But these are avenues that are not really available to other people.

Yeah, they can't be like, oh, I'm going to go moderate a panel at a Comic-Con.

They don't have the juice you got.

What little juice I have.

I've staggered these

so the questions get a little bit more meatier or thought provider.

Well, we're getting there.

Not yet.

Where do you see the medium going in the next one to three years?

Wow.

You know, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

As soon as you hear wow, he's wowing.

He's scrambling immediately.

He's on his heels immediately as soon as you hear.

That was both phrases.

You see the eyes start to start looking in every direction?

And he looks up.

He tilts his head up and he goes, oh, wow.

If I really knew, I'd probably be working on it right now instead of sitting here with you, you assholes.

No, if you look at the trend, and

you guys have done it too.

You swore for years you were going to do video, right?

It's going toward video, man.

Everything is.

You think it's not there already?

You think what in three years it's not your end?

It's more video.

It's going to be more video.

Yeah, it's going to be more video.

I think it's already.

I think video is already at the.

They're looking for more, I think, a more like Nostradamus-like answer here.

Oh, you want me to predict the future?

Like more than video?

Where do you see it going more than just like video?

Well, I think that, yeah, because they're talking about like podcasting sort of took over radio, right?

Right.

You know, and the and the streaming and shit all took over radio, so now nobody cares about radio anymore.

So what's the next, what's the next big thing?

Yeah, that's what we're at looking for.

Like, you could just

throw it out there.

What you really think it could be the next big thing, you know?

And then if it hits, you could be like, fuck.

Oh, yeah.

I called it.

You called it.

I called it.

Well, it's video, then it was live streaming.

Now it's not even the whole podcast.

People are just taking one-minute clips, and that's your podcast.

I actually, I do that a lot on YouTube.

There's several podcasts that I like, but it's like sometimes it's or don't like.

Yeah.

And sometimes it's difficult to slog through.

You just watch the shorts, right?

You just watch the highlights.

You just watch the shorts.

And sometimes, you know, like anywhere from 15 to 30 minutes.

Yeah.

You know, it's not too much.

Yeah.

It's actually, yeah, these three-hour podcasts are being shortened down to 15 seconds now.

So, yeah,

it's just best ofs now, best of clips.

Yeah, do you have any recommendations as to length of a podcast?

I mean, do you tell people?

I try to keep it under an hour.

After that, it's way too much.

If you see it's going two hours, I'm not going to listen to it.

There's no way I'll say

that.

Our audience used to love

to have long episodes.

You guys are different.

You guys are so funny that I never want you guys to end.

Thank you, Ming.

All right, I got some more here for you, though.

Some more blindsiding questions.

Would you recommend holding a mock trial to determine whether or not a divisive member should be kept off microphone?

And is this commonly used by other podcasts?

Wow.

I think the only trial I've heard is, I think Stern did a trial, right?

He's done a couple trials back in the day.

Maybe.

I don't really recall.

But other than you, other than you guys not heard any trials.

I like your trials, though.

The trial by fire ants,

always a huge hit on Tell Home Steve Dave.

Okay, so

would you recommend that, though, for other podcasts to have like

other members?

Yeah, I don't know.

How much do you listen to the people versus your own gut instinct?

I mean, you guys have never listened to the people, and it's worked out pretty well for you guys.

Again, though, I think, again, we talk a big game.

We say we got these big nuts, but at the end of the day, you don't, you know, I don't recommend you don't want to alienate, you know, a large segment of the audience if they're not liking or not digging something.

Right.

But that's a high wire act, man.

You love the high wire.

Nope.

He hates the high wire more than anybody I know.

You're right.

What am I talking about?

All right.

You like watching watching the other guy?

Your eyes are rolling.

You're looking all over the room.

Wow.

You're like looking at the high wire and watching the guy fall off the high wire.

All right, what about this one?

Okay.

Okay.

No, I don't, but no, I don't recommend any other podcast.

Attempt this highly volatile trial and steal it from tell him Steve Dave.

No, not going to work.

What are your thoughts on merchandising?

What, in your opinion, is crossing the line of quote-unquote selling out when it comes to merch?

Wow.

Okay.

What a question.

What a question.

You know, some

I've seen you guys put out stuff that people need right away.

They buy all of it.

The hats, your hats have been great.

A lot of the shirts, the skulls, not so much.

Not so much, but they're gone now.

Yeah.

They are gone now.

You know, I've seen your

$10 bargain bin during Black Friday.

So I see what doesn't move.

Mugs, 8 tracks,

clocks, Frank Five clocks.

I don't know what those are.

They're not going to be any extras of those.

They're all.

Okay.

Yeah, I like the way you do it where

they're pre-bought already on Patreon.

They're pre-sold.

That's smart.

Yeah, that is definitely something that is beneficial to the bottom line because you're not creating something like,

look, we learned hard lessons.

We created all those skulls, those mini skulls, and we thought they were going to set the world on fire.

And they did.

They're different.

And a lot of people were like, yeah, you know what?

I like the podcast, but I don't need a fucking little trinket.

You can't win them all.

Yeah.

And there are other people who are like, that's so fucking cool.

I want one.

And they love it.

And they still love it.

So, yeah.

But what is your opinion?

When does someone cross the line?

I mean,

you can see some of the other shitty podcasts put out like the same old bullshit, like tumblers, like the metal, the fucking metal.

Coffee mugs are a big one.

Oh, yeah, the coffee mugs are the metal, like the Stanley cups or the

Stanley mugs that everybody else.

Oh, so they meant the real cups.

Yeah, not the stanza.

Not the real one.

You put out one version of that with your names engraved on that?

I'm all over it.

I'll buy that.

Those thermal cups are expensive, though, because we looked into it and it was like cost-prohibitive.

Yeah, yeah, they're like $30, $40, $50.

But is there a line?

Oh, does Mink Chen have a line that you want to do?

Oh, yeah.

So there's a merchant.

There's definitely merchandise people put out.

I was like, this is bullshit.

Who needs a fucking keychain?

A keychain?

You think keychain is crossing the line?

Why?

According to some people, when we put out our zone, yeah, we figured that we crossed the line.

And they're still floating around out there.

All right.

This one's a little long.

This one came at V.

If I ever see the Televisivity polo shirt, yeah, then I think it's all over.

Well, with a little, like, instead of the alligator, like a little

kissing devil or four-color demon or something, that would be fucking pretty cool.

Eugene Iguana.

Dude, Eugene Iguana?

That's old school.

All right, maybe I'd take it back.

Yeah.

Maybe I'll take it back.

Polo shirts.

Sell it all.

You don't want to be known as like the you know the podcast version of kiss though where you have so much merch oh if only you could be the podcast version of kiss if we made the amount of money that kissed it i would not care about that i'd be like let's pay the tum steve dave coffin let's do it I've been doing a podcast with a friend for a while, and I feel like we will never get to the next level with my current partner.

He's lacking in charisma and refuses to work at it.

I'm not sure what to do.

Keep quiet and keep my friendship and do a pod that has plateaued or let my friend go, ruin our friendship, and bring in a a co-host who can possibly help achieve a higher profile for the podcast.

Sign Ming Chen.

We think we know you made the right decision.

This is a tough, this is a tough one.

My partner's completely devoid of charisma.

This is a tough one.

Sometimes that happens.

I think it's common.

Sure.

I think it's all the time.

I think it's common.

Of course, would never reveal names, but I think there's a lot of people who are like, Scotty's an anchor.

He's Wayne's down.

He won't, you know, he thinks he's funny.

He's brutal.

It happens all the time.

Now, most of those pods fade out after 10 episodes, not like 300.

But it happens to every podcast, man.

You see so many podcasts fizzle because

the co-hosts don't line up or

one is not as dedicated as the other one.

And

it stinks.

What do you recommend?

Like, is that that's a that's a Sophie's choice.

You know, do you want to keep your friendship or do you want to take a chance on ruining a friendship and then you get a new co-host and does it even work then?

What if it doesn't work?

Keep going then and keep trying, or yeah, but no, no,

then you but you also lost a friend, though.

That's that's the tough part.

That's the tough part.

But if it's not fun anymore, if it if it's torture,

these are your words, right?

At least this guy did not say that.

This is just generating a lot of things.

This is a therapy

particular i'm just saying you know if it's a torture and you you wake up and you dread recording and you don't then then yeah it's probably time to stop then so and some feelings might get hurt but ultimately i think it's good for the both of you so right but what happens though if he makes that decision to like tell his friend hey look you know i'm gonna move it on with a different partner yeah

and

that person then is like you're dead to me and then you get that new partner and doesn't do anything anyway.

And you're still, you know, and still getting the same numbers.

And then you fucked over a friendship over that.

That's that was fucking crazy that this person was thinking that I thought.

And you gave the friend the upper hand, too, to be like, ha ha, now look at you.

Yeah.

Yeah, but you wouldn't have known unless you tried.

So at least the future.

So

what's your recommendation?

No shits and giggles.

Is you know, maybe

record a couple more episodes if you still feel the same way.

If it's if you're not having fun doing it and you're dreading recording, then yeah, it's time to go.

But I think it feels like in my view.

You could put it more lightly, like, hey, listen, I, yeah, I'm not, I'm not into this anymore.

It's not you, it's me.

And uh, it's like any other relationship, you're trying to go in another direction.

Yeah, it happens all the time.

But what if

you know it still gets the same numbers?

And then, like, you gave him

the same numbers, but you're having fun doing it, then it was worth it.

It feels like this guy really just wants to get to a different level than he's at.

And it's

not about fun.

It's about it seemed to me, it feels like he wants to achieve a

number.

Tell him Steve Dave like audiences.

And he didn't say that.

Yeah.

Well, again, if it's not happening with that, that co-host, then yes, you got to move on.

And if it doesn't happen with the next one, keep moving on until it works.

Wow, that's cold.

Yeah.

That's cold.

It's a cutthroat.

Sure, but

are broadcasting really that cutthroat?

It can be, yeah.

But it's like if you're moving on to a second and third person partner, maybe it's you.

Is it that cutthroat we're going to like fucking trials and shit now?

Yes, it's that cutthroat, ladies and gentlemen.

It is.

People are picketing, making signs, protesting.

Yeah,

we're at that level, everybody.

Yeah, I'm sorry to say it, but

I am surprised that you would give that,

you know, that that is cold.

That is just like.

I mean, you know, believing in blind-sided, just listen to me.

Sit down and listen, I'm not.

Mentality.

I'm sorry I had to end this way, but

we had a great run.

But

I'm going to move on.

It happens at every podcast, bands, whatever.

I got a couple, two more.

TV co-hosts.

Yeah, like Metallica.

Like, had Metallica not moved on without Dave Mustaine.

They're like, look, we can't do this

anymore.

Yeah.

And now, look, Dave Mustaine moved on to Megadeth.

Metallica moved on to Metallica.

Yeah, it worked out for everybody.

Yeah, it worked out out for everyone pretty much.

Yeah.

Yeah, but there's plenty of other

side note situations where that doesn't happen.

In fact, it probably usually doesn't happen.

Would you rather play it safe for a larger audience or be true to the style of show you want?

Maybe resulting in less listeners, but ones who are there really enjoy the ride.

Yeah, you got to do the latter.

The whole point in starting a podcast is so you can say whatever the hell you want.

So,

yeah, I'm not here to win.

That's what I thought.

I'm not here to win friends.

I'm here to say whatever the hell I want to say.

So, I tell everybody that there's no rules in this.

So, you, you, you,

you have, but you're full of shit.

You are full of shit.

So, you know, you can't say whatever you want right now.

You know, you can't.

On my own show, I can, yes.

You can say whatever.

You know, you can't say whatever you want on any mic.

You can say whatever you want, but then you're going to deal with the repercussion.

Sure.

It's not 2012 anymore.

Holy shit, is it it not that's true i don't want nj.com coming after me yeah

one little thing

one little thing yeah and i don't i don't want bleeding cool coming after me either saying i i up a panel so

yeah so i i could if i wanted to that's the point that's the point but you choose not to though well i yeah because you want a larger audience

the ming the ming chen i know i think you know people would be shocked to hear off mic the way you fucking the way you drag people oh cavaliers

you know you keep that you you keep that ming-chen persona on the mic and when you're out in public and i try to be diplomatic i know uh i know where my bread is buttered but but uh yeah if you if you have something you want to say or you need something to you got to rail against somebody then do it then do it this is uh you know it's your it's your show you say whatever you want to say

And damned the consequences?

Well, I mean, no, you're going to, if you put your foot in your mouth, you got to get your own foot out, man.

Yeah, but you also got to mention that, too.

Like, you just can't tell the guy, do say whatever you want, and then he'll lose his job, his real job.

Right.

And then young, you told me to say whatever I wanted.

Yeah.

I just lost my job.

I was a teacher for 10 years.

Plus, I'm not famous.

And I'm not, atop that, I'm not even famous.

Yeah, fuck you.

It's all your fault.

Yeah, sorry.

You didn't tell me that if I said whatever I wanted, I didn't tell you.

That, you know, that I could lose my job.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Would you give somebody that advice?

Like, you know what?

Don't even, if you think you're going to go on there and be like a hardcore, like, you know, conservative or hardcore lib, whichever, and you have a regular job yeah you probably shouldn't just start a podcast

yeah but you i mean you could you just lose your job but you could you could say

you could say

that's that's not for me to say not for me to say

but i maverick people i i say if you wake up maverick himself giving you laying giving you fuck i i say if you wake up you want to you want some lessons that you can't hear anywhere else yeah exactly if you wake up you want to reel into fucking sonic because they put onion on your burger, then you do it, man.

You do it.

That's what I say.

All right.

Last one.

Okay.

It's definitely the, I'm going to give you one softball.

Okay.

How do you decide what tags to use to drive engagement?

Tags?

Hashtags.

Yes, I know.

All right.

I know.

This is what we're talking about.

I think even hashtags aren't a thing anymore, right?

They are.

They are.

I don't know how they affect whether or not people are.

But I gave you weighty ones.

You fucking went, wow.

And you're like, you're ready to run out the door.

It felt like.

Yeah, I'm like, I gave you the

halfway off the chair.

Yeah.

There are after you can you can find out what the popular hashtags are and just throw them on there and see if it works.

There's apps for that?

Yeah.

Like you see what's trending and shit.

Like on a date?

Yeah.

Like right to the moment.

Yeah, they'll tell you whether.

And do you find that disingenuous, though, or almost like it can be, yeah, which is why I'm.

I'm going to date and switch.

Yeah.

Which is, yeah, I don't, I don't like that.

You know, and you don't hashtag a lot of

releases.

Yeah.

Do you feel it could be hurting you?

It could be, yeah.

I don't, I don't, Yeah.

I don't care.

What would you hashtag this episode?

This, you know, Train Wreck, fucking Maverick.

Why is it a Trainwreck?

Why is it a Trainwreck when I'm here?

That's what people love, though, right?

Hashtag Maverick.

Yeah, hashtag Maverick.

That one always works.

Train wreck.

Hashtag broken friendship.

Hashtag not famous.

Hashtag bring back comic book men.

Yeah, was there ever a time when you thought about like, maybe I need to drop the zero and get with a hero?

Like when you were podcasting?

Or did you just accept like, no, we're a team?

Yeah, no, this is my lot.

Yeah.

Like fucking C-3PO and shit when

he's like trapped in the desert.

No, I'm a pretty loyal guy.

So

no, never, never any thought.

Some things happen.

Sometimes things happen.

So

life is full of strange and wondrous turns.

Yes, it is.

I'm here for all of it.

But you got to stay on the road.

Yeah.

The

people that expected to get famous by podcasting, it's like it's no different than, like I said, if you're a rock star or you're a writer, you're an author and you're like, why am I not famous?

I wrote a book.

Why am I not famous?

Yeah, yeah.

Or I put a comic book.

How come it's, you know, how come I'm not Jim Lee and Chris Claremont and X-Men yet?

It's like, well, because it sucks.

That's why.

I hope that's not the way you're talking to your students.

No,

you're giving your seminars.

No, not at all.

Not at all.

But, you know, I try to put some realistic in it.

You're a little bit more easy and a little bit, you know, a little bit more.

Try to be more rough around the edges.

A little bit more realistic.

But, yeah, I'll break it to them gently.

Okay.

Yeah.

Can't all be telling, Steve Dave.

The Maverick people, the Maverick.

Drop in knowledge.

Yeah.

Yeah, even as he does.

Even took you guys years.

Years.

It took years.

Years.

And people, remember early on, people got angry at us because we didn't make shirts.

We didn't make merchandise.

We were just focused on the podcast.

And people got annoyed and started making their own stuff.

Yeah.

Until we eventually got caught up and

cracked down on that shit, man.

Yeah.

Bootleg t-shirts.

Leave those to me, man.

Leave me to the

bootleg shit.

All right.

Let's see.

I'll let you, as a professional podcast expert, I'll let you judge my spot reading.

Oh, we got ads.

Yeah, we got some ads here.

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Wait, hold on a second.

Okay.

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Do you use Express VPN, Ming?

I don't.

No.

I do.

I've used it for a little while now, prior to us getting them as an advertiser.

And it's mostly for this reason.

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So if you want to go on there, like let's say Ming Chen's at home, right?

He's using the family computer because he left his laptop.

Right, he's actually at home.

Imagine that.

Somehow you got into the house.

They left the back door open or something because the locks have been changed.

He's just in the parking lot trying to access

his car.

Oh, is he?

Yeah, just using the Wi-Fi.

Tucky fried chicken.

Fucking they changed the password again.

God damn it.

I need expression.

I got to go to the library now.

Rick and Morty is a show that I watch from.

you know, other countries because they don't have all the episodes that I'm looking for.

There's some episodes that are too

risque or too.

No, they just just don't have them on the streaming services that I have.

Yeah, the U.S.

version.

So he's got to go to Australia or Denmark or something.

It's as easy as opening the app, selecting the country name, and tapping one button to connect, and then you refresh the page, and there it is.

Wow.

So you use this with ease.

Oh, it's very easy.

Look, I use it.

Yeah.

That says a lot.

I proposed to that company, Zoom, it makes us our mixing boards.

Your tagline should be so easy that Brian Johnson didn't fuck it up and they didn't go for it.

They didn't go go with it.

But ExpressVPN should.

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I have a second spot I got to read.

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So he bets on sports?

Well, this isn't betting.

This is fantasy sports.

So this is not like a betting tour.

Oh, okay, okay.

It's just for fun.

Yeah.

Well, he can win money, so I don't know.

Go to prizepicks.com slash T-E-S-D and use code T-E-S-D for a first deposit match up to $100.

That's go to prizepicks.com, T-E-S-D slash T-E-S-D, and use code T-E-S D for a first deposit match up to $100.

Pick more, pick less.

It's that easy.

I watch a lot of the murder porn type stuff on TV, Ming.

Okay, anything good lately?

There was something

that

I was wondering, like, as you know, you're married, Walt, you're married.

If you discovered that your wife had taken out a million-dollar life insurance policy on you without letting you know, or even half a million, whatever.

Yeah.

Without letting you know, what's the reaction?

I mean, it's a little suspect.

Yeah.

That, yeah, I was like, wait,

why wouldn't she tell you?

Why wouldn't she tell you?

And,

I mean, that can only lead to one thing, right?

Murder.

Yeah.

Or attempted murder, anyway.

Yeah.

Start checking for arsenic, cyanide.

That was the bleach in your coffee.

Yeah, this was a lady who was,

it was, it was arsenic, as a matter of fact.

And she was, she was, and this is a thing.

It's like, she was a preacher's wife who was doing it.

I guess it was his,

it was her second marriage or something, his first marriage, but he was a preacher.

And this lady was poisoning him with arsenic over the course of a year.

They were able to tell later on because of the hair, the hair follicles.

And

he went to the hospital and he was getting worse, and they couldn't figure out why.

And they're like, well, what is it that he's ingesting?

Because they looked at, you know, again, they look at the hair and they see that it's still happening when he's in the hospital.

And his wife had been bringing in

home cooked meals and shit like that.

And then once she stopped, he started getting a little better and a little better.

And that's how they figured out that she had taken out the insurance policy and all the other shit.

Wow.

It's amazing

criminals who are like,

you're not going to be smarter than everybody else.

Right.

Because it's not just you versus one guy or one cop or one detective.

It's you versus like the forensic people, the homicide detectives, the fucking, the looky-loos that are just like the church people who are like, you know, talk to the cops and are like, I don't know.

She acts acts a little weird, man.

You might want to talk to her.

Yeah.

No, they're like, there are podcasts out there investigating shit like this.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

True crime podcast going,

was it the arsenic?

Yeah, you're screwed.

Yeah, you're done.

But I did, I wondered myself, like, what would I do?

This is what I wrote down because it was a good idea.

Are you suspecting?

No, no, just because I was watching that show.

I wrote it.

I'd hit that pussy one last time and take a bow and say, sorry, bitch, I'm outie.

I mean, what, if you found out she took out a life insurance policy?

A million dollars?

See, because I would be, yeah, there's so much

my wife does, you know, financials and takes care of things that I would not, like, it wouldn't even bat an eyelash.

I would just be like, oh, okay.

She's done all the

details of our life anyway.

Yeah, same with Mary Beth, but that would be suspect.

Like, she's younger, I'm older.

She doesn't need to fucking,

she's just patient.

She's going to get it all in not that long anyway.

Look how old we are compared to her.

Is she that impatient?

She might be.

I don't know.

I mean, I think it's good if

the longer you stay alive, right?

You get all that Patreon money.

You're up to 10,000 subscribers and growing.

Yeah, you don't want to kill the golden goose.

Well, she's got the insurance policy.

It's way more lucrative than what they're doing.

Yeah, than waiting for Patreon.

Yeah, I guess so.

I guess so.

That's ongoing, though, man, and growing.

That is good, though.

Like you say, she's going to get it all anyway.

Like, all the shit that I don't want to deal with will eventually be hers to deal with.

Like, all my stuff and all the crap that, like,

look around the house.

I've never seen anyone order as much shit as she orders.

Like, stupid stuff from, like,

there's this,

I guess it's an Asian website called Timu.

She gets stuff from Timu?

Yeah, she gets stuffed.

All that cheap bullshit?

Yeah, all that cheap crap.

It's so cheap.

Even I won't buy it.

All that cheap Chinese shit.

It's like all cheap Chinese stuff and stuff that I'm like, do we really fucking need this?

And then she's like, it was only a couple of dollars.

And it's like this, you know, like how we use a washer.

And like, you know, if you close the door after you wash your clothes, sometimes it starts to get a little bit like musty and stale.

So you want to like make sure it's dry or at least keep it open.

So it's this like magnetic thing that sticks on the washer and it has like a little hook that holds the door open.

Right.

And I'm like, why don't you just open the door all the way?

Right.

It stays open by itself.

Yeah.

But it's not good enough.

I don't get it.

You're going to be crushed under the weight of like Hello Kitty rice cookers and shit.

Those are the ads I see, right?

Like fucking rice steamers and little mini irons or whatever.

Like chopstick holders.

Wow, man, she got sucked to my T-move.

Yes.

But when she has to deal with your stuff,

my guess is that she's just going to call in

just haul it out.

Just haul it out.

Like garbage?

I got stuff that's worth money.

It's not everything I own is shit.

Well, I mean, you have to, I guess, beat it into her brain that it's not garbage then because, you know, most people are not going to look up every fucking Blu-ray.

I saw your Blu-ray collection.

Right.

They're not all out of print.

Yeah, I'm not making money off my Blu-rays.

But I do a lot of action figures and stuff like that.

Like, I have

a San Diego Comic-Con exclusive of Pamela Voorhees,

and it's worth like $500.

She's going to have to

have to do the homework then to look it all up on eBay and be like, and then when she looks up one

exclusive, like, you know, not the Pamela Voorhees, but maybe something else is like, 25 bucks.

This isn't worth it.

And the next one she looks up, 15 bucks?

Fuck this shit.

You're right.

Like, that's, it's that.

And I have a couple books that are worth a lot of money.

And then other than that, it's just like you're just general average shit.

You know,

that's like Funko Pop.

That's fucking trash.

It's all, and then you're, and then somebody's going to have, you know, a whole bunch of Brian Johnson merch on their flea market table at Collingwood in Englishtown.

Of all these companies that do,

what's it called, cleanouts?

That's what all that shit is trucked to then.

Dude, that would be,

you talk about karma.

I remember when Kevin and I were really young, we were like

19, 20.

We worked for these guys that his mom knew and we went around to different estates.

Like, you know, they would have estate sales.

And they would sell all the shit and the stuff that people didn't want was left behind.

And we would go in there and take this stuff and throw it into a dumpster, like just clean out the house so that they could sell the house.

And I mean, I remember throwing away stuff that I'm like, this meant something to people.

Like this lady, this one lady, I'll never forget her.

Her name was Marge, and she had like

photo albums.

And it was like New Year's Eve, 1969.

A great time was had by all was written on the back.

And she had like a whole bunch of teacups, like little fragile teacups that I guess she got from different states she went to or whatever.

I was just hucking them into the fucking dumpster, like listening to them shatter.

Almost everybody,

everybody's stuff, a portion of it is going to be treated like that.

All the things that you cherish are going to be treated like shitty little teacups.

Right.

Yeah.

By somebody.

Like, look at this garbage.

My master.

I've told everybody in the house, I was like, these are not garbage.

Oh, really?

These go for money.

These are out of print.

Do not just assume that you're not going to get something.

Don't like it.

The first book you look up may not go for money, but I'm telling you, there's other ones that will.

You know, you've got to, if you maximize what's in on these shelves, or else you're just throwing money away.

Right.

Yeah.

Don't treat it like teacups.

Yeah, those teacups.

I remember

we took a sewing machine.

We tried to sell this sewing machine to like five different antique shops.

People are like, it's not an antique.

It's just, it's garbage.

So we just left it on the side of the road.

But yeah, it was like we would try to like scavenge for stuff that was actually worth money.

She had a whole big TV guide collection, like in retrospect, I wish we kept that that out.

You could have used that, man.

TV guide.

You could have used that.

Yeah, I don't know.

That show might be on the chopping block.

Oh, no.

Really?

All the catalog shows.

Wait, it's going to get canceled?

How ironic if it gets canceled?

That's ironic.

Because it's like a TV show.

It gets canceled, man.

Wow.

What about it?

Too far?

Oh, okay.

What was I going to say, though?

Oh, me and Giddam went to Goodwill.

We're looking for a suit for him for a project

for a new Patreon show.

And I went into the Goodwill, went to three Goodwills over the course of last week, and I saw so many things in that Goodwill that I know are just were

that someone cleaned out a house and somehow it found its way to this Goodwill.

But it's like there's frames with the photos still in them.

Oh, really?

Like these old, old photos of this somebody's, this was on somebody's mantle or somebody's desk at some point, and now it's in a Goodwill store that, and there's really, I think, little to no chance that it'll ever sell, like some of this shit that was around it.

But yeah, it's it all goes there, though.

It all goes somewhere, and most of it doesn't find a new home for somebody who to cherish it after you're gone or we're gone.

Right.

That's sad the way it is.

That's a photo, though.

If that person's house was on fire, they would have ran back in and got it.

It is sad, but at the end of the day, it's not realistic, though, to think that, like, you know, that this shit that you're like

my teacups no one gives a fuck about your teacups no my blu-rays

no one gives a fuck about your swarm blu-rays oh come on all your beam all your horror beam like your be about bees

yeah i have like four or five movies about bees

i got a ton i know because i know i could say that because i have over a hundred dvds that no one gives a fuck about right including me well at this point yeah like like dvds like forget blu-rays dvds are I tried to play a DVD on my big TV.

It's like, it doesn't translate anymore.

Like,

the quality was about as bad as VHS.

Really?

Yeah, I couldn't believe it.

Why?

I don't know.

I thought it would, like, upscale it or something.

It's digital.

It doesn't work like that.

It was coded in a different format, though, man.

Plus,

it's like trying to, like, you know, it's like blowing up a photo of the post-its jam up to up into a poster.

Oh, because your TV is too big.

The TV is too big.

Oh, yeah.

Well, Brian Big TV Johnson.

I told her not to buy the TV.

I was like, I'm not Brian Big TV Johnson.

Do not buy it.

It's too big.

She fucking bought it anyway.

She doesn't listen.

Yeah, it sounds like, yeah, you can't get a fucking,

you can't get a control over there at the Johnson manner.

Everybody's buying fucking shit they don't need, including big TVs.

Big TVs.

She can't watch your DVDs now.

Although, I know.

I'm like, buy a smaller TV so I can watch my shit.

She's like, your shit's old.

It's stale.

It doesn't work.

Sure.

It's a policy billion dollars.

I'd have to hand it to her, though, if she really was like working on something to try to kill me for a million bucks.

I'm like, wow, I did not see that coming.

She's very loving, she's very sweet.

Right.

Wow,

had you fooled, man?

Yeah.

I don't know.

Yeah, first it's glass and your ice cream, and now like

whatever you're eating now.

Yeah, see, you wouldn't, you, it wouldn't work on you.

You would taste the arsenic and your pizza or chicken fingers right away, man.

You wouldn't even have to taste it.

He'd smell it.

Yeah, you would smell it from a mile away.

I was like, what is that?

He's like, that's almonds, isn't it?

Is that what rice is smelling?

Like, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, what's going on with Ming Chen?

What do you got coming up?

Anything you want to pimp?

Bunch of conventions.

Yeah, where are you heading off?

Non-stop and a couple cool places at Boise, Idaho.

Wow.

Who the fuck goes to Boise?

But Ming Chen does.

Yeah, me and fucking Sean Aston are going up there from The Goonies and Lord of the Rings.

You'll go places that a lot of people won't go, right?

Because

for all your fans to make third-world countries and shit.

You'll go where a lot of celebs just are like, you know, it ain't worth it.

But you find the, you know, within you, that's cool.

You're trying to explore the world.

That's a flight, too.

Boise.

Boise.

Oh my God.

That's a lot of people.

Yeah, I go to,

I think, Seattle first and then over to Boise.

Go back to Anchorage.

I went to Anchorage last year.

They invited me back.

That's great.

Yeah, that's cool.

Is it still nighttime, like 30 days out of the day?

It's more daytime.

There's a light on until about 10.30, 11 at night.

It's pretty cool.

You would love it.

Yeah.

You would love it.

You would love to be late.

Yeah, that would be cool.

Yeah.

But everywhere I go,

and I see, though, like

you're partying hardy wherever you go.

I try to, yeah.

Do you feel like

you may be putting

partying at like a younger man?

I'm starting to feel

it.

Yeah, yeah, big time.

Really?

Yeah, you maybe let it slow down on the partying.

I don't know.

I don't know if I'll be able to do it.

You can't, right?

It's impossible.

It's hard.

It's hard.

Naming, you were recently in Texas, and you showed, I'm not going to expose the content, but you showed me a video that really made me laugh.

Yes.

And I'm wondering, I feel it's one of those videos that with the right attention could go viral.

Yeah, why didn't you post that?

Why did you not post it yet?

I don't know yet.

I think I wanted to send it to a sex few people first to see if it was funny.

I mean, it's pretty funny, but dude, it's hysterical.

What's even funnier than what you do is what you say.

Yeah.

If you're listening to this, it will have been posted.

Posted by now?

Yeah, it'll be posted by now.

Okay, where should they go to say that?

Go to Twitter.

It'll be ever at Twitter, Instagram, Facebook.

Will you hashtag it too?

I'll hashtag it.

Hashtag it

funny.

Hashtag T-E-S-T-Pizza, I guess.

Hashtag Maverick.

Hashtag Maverick, yeah.

Hashtag asshole.

Big touch.

Yeah, we can talk about it.

It would be posted by now.

Oh, that's true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, you sent it to me, and it's you, and I assume you're lit.

I'm pretty lit, yeah.

Yeah, you're drunk.

And it's not a recent video.

That's That's why I even brought this up because you look like you got that thousand-mile stair going.

Oh, yeah.

I'm lit.

Yeah.

You're like, you can't even, like, you're seeing into other universes, it looks like you.

This happened

in Austin, Texas, in 2015.

Oh, that was that long ago.

That was that long ago.

Dude, you haven't really aged that much.

I thought it was recently.

I definitely am.

I'm a svelter.

I'm definitely thinner and younger, but yeah, and stupider, apparently.

Well, I mean, it was a total accident.

It was.

Yeah.

It was.

When you say,

no, no, it wasn't.

It's a leading account.

I believe it was 1,000% an accident.

Yeah.

But yeah,

if you watch the video, I'm lit.

I'm drunk.

I'm making a video where I'm holding a slice of pizza.

And

a friend is asking me to

disparage the pizza because it's Texas pizza, not Jersey pizza.

And I end up throwing it.

And it ends up hitting a dude in the side of the face.

It's passing by is innocent, probably having a bad day.

And I just hate it.

I was having a bad day.

It looked like every day is a bad day for this guy.

Yeah, I believe he was homeless.

Oh.

And I believe

you could have left that out.

No, no, no, I'm not leaving that out.

It makes it even worse that I slapped him in the face with a piece of pizza.

And I think he was lit as well, which is why he didn't try to retaliate or anything.

He just kind of.

Yeah, his reaction.

I don't know.

How would you have reacted?

Walt, if like some young punk is on the side of it.

I would have been angry, but I mean, Ming, it's diffused it immediately.

Right.

I apologize.

It was just like.

You diffused it.

Yeah.

You were like, you apologize immediately.

You didn't mean it.

It was definitely one of those wrong time, wrong place.

Yeah.

Type situations.

It couldn't have been, you know, one in a million shot that hit him that square in the face.

Fucking hysterical.

Yeah, I felt bad.

I really felt bad.

Did you?

Yeah.

And then afterwards, he was like, hey, man, can I get a dollar?

And I gave him five bucks.

I was like, you got it.

I gave him five bucks.

Yeah.

I genuinely felt bad.

It's lucky that's left off the video because then it makes it

as funny.

No, I guess that's but yeah, the reason I sent it to you now, and I forgot she had taken the video and I saw the person who shot it recently.

I'm like, hey,

did you, was that on video?

And she looked back and she still had it.

So

we had a good laugh.

And I was like, I know a guy who would enjoy this.

I'd send it right over to you.

Yeah, I immediately showed it to Mary Beth.

I was like, you got to watch this.

So it'll be, yeah, go to Twitter and definitely check it out.

And

yeah, hopefully I don't lose my Maverick status after that.

You think that could hurt you?

And like in

there are some audiences out there that

are as insensitive.

Even saying homeless instead of unhoused.

I'm going to have to cut that.

He's on record as saying, I say what I want.

Yeah, it's true.

He is a maverick.

Well, he was always unhoused, whatever the difference is.

None.

Yeah.

None.

For some reason, the word unhoused makes some people feel better

about other people being homeless.

I think homeless people are probably like, I don't have a home, motherfucker.

Call me whatever you want.

Just get me a home.

Right.

Yeah.

Or a dollar.

Yeah, or a dollar.

Or a dollar.

Just don't throw pizza on me.

Yeah.

Yeah, I did feel bad.

So, and, you know, it's no excuse, but I was pretty drunk.

Good as excuses, Annie.

Yeah, not an excuse.

So, well, I'm glad you found it funny and not like, what an asshole.

I saw it as complete and utter accident.

It was, yeah.

It was.

Yeah.

So go to Ming Chen's social media and check out that video.

It's pretty funny.

Listen to what he says because that really made me laugh.

Yeah, turn the sound up, I guess.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, you actually hear the pizza smacking the guy's face, too, which is crazy that it caught that.

Not my best moment.

I'm going to have to jump on

some of these cons with Ming.

My wife wants a new bathroom.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Did you ever try to price a new bathroom?

Anything

Improvement area is going to be pricey.

Yeah, there's

no cheap renovations.

A lot of hidden costs.

I'm thinking about having to get an insurance policy on me and fighting my death.

Well, she's taking a dump.

She's like, yeah, the bathroom that Brian's death built me.

I think my best bathroom renovation story was: I was at a con once.

I saw Jason Muse walking in from the front door of the hotel.

I remember that.

Bags of Legos, just just bags.

It looks like he bought all the toys for us.

He's like, Holy crap, man, where'd you get all those?

Like, yeah, I went and I bought everything I didn't have, and he kept going.

So I texted his wife.

I'm like, hey, you know, we're here at the con, just saw Jay.

Man, he had a lot of Legos with him.

She's like, oh, really?

Oh,

I'm like, yeah, she's okay.

Did it go a little well for old Muse?

Three hours later, I saw me come.

He runs over to me, starts yelling in my face, like, dude, what the fuck, man?

Why'd you rap me out like that?

That wasn't cool.

I'm like, what are you talking about?

He's He's yelling at me as if I caught him with another woman.

I told his wife.

And he said,

my wife said you texted her and said I had a bunch of Legos.

Why'd you go do that?

Yeah, why did you?

I just thought it was, I was making a comment.

It was a lot of, it was so many that I had to make a comment.

I remember when I was talking to her.

She was like, he has a renovation to pay for.

He can't be buying that shit.

Yeah, yeah.

So, yeah, he yelled at her.

She yelled at him.

She was like, Jay, you can't be buying these Legos at you.

We can't renovate our bathroom with Legos.

and I was I was kind of like actually you could if you wanted now what about the bathroom why did you say bathroom oh because he was that's she wanted she she wanted him to save the money for the bathroom renovation oh okay I thought you said he was in the bathroom with the bags no no no no no no it's really weird like you came out of the stall and he was

no it was a hotel he was walking the front

cut these legos

speaking of cons and bathrooms though I mean have you guys smoothed it over when you got that joke you made about

I have not you still haven't done it no I have not what did he do he made the and you know the joke the pooping joke the pooping joke about about somebody who's on the conference

smooth it over and i haven't and he still hasn't smoothed it over

what's what's uh is it pride it's not pride i just don't want to deal with it

i think that's what it is doesn't care enough no i care

don't if you care you would just you could send a text

i could send a text i'd rather just go in and be like dude listen i'm sorry i i offended you online i took all the posts down, so that's step one.

You're laughing at me.

I'm trying.

It's small.

You deleted the posts.

I deleted them all, yeah.

They were classic, man.

Yeah.

Classic Mike Shitten on the Com 4.

Yeah.

Well, listen, it's going to be hard to apologize when they're still up there.

Yeah, that's true.

I don't even know that they've been deleted.

No.

He does not.

He will, though.

He will when I get off my mess and go with it.

When you eventually go and apologize.

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

All right.

What a touchy motherfucker.

What a touchy guy.

But he's been talking about apologizing for

a while.

I know.

I shouldn't wait this long.

No.

You can do it right now on Mike.

No.

Would you like to make a public apology on Telling Steve Dave?

I am right now.

Yes.

Mike, I'm sorry I offended you online.

I didn't think you were going to get this upset.

And it was not my intention to upset you this bad.

And I hope you accept my apology.

We've done a lot of great things.

And I hope it can continue.

But yeah,

if I know Mike, he is definitely going to accept that.

Oh, really?

Yeah, he's a listener.

Yeah.

Somebody's going to hit him that you apologize.

Yeah, somebody let him know that Manipula.

No, I feel

if he feels bad, then yeah, I apologize for sure.

But I should be a man.

Well, you know we feel face-to-face.

You see, you don't feel like coming at him from a different angle, like, dude, stop being such a fucking pussy.

Everybody knows you didn't shit on the con floor.

That's a Brian Johnson apology, and that usually doesn't go over much.

Gasoline on the fire.

Yeah, okay.

Although, I remember my analogy is the last time I was really mad at you, like, we made up in two weeks.

Like, it was so stupid.

So, me and you?

We were mad at each other?

I don't know.

Yeah, yeah, I was mad because you didn't show up to a con in New Orleans.

Oh, I remember.

In New Orleans, yeah, I remember that.

I was getting the brunt of that, too.

Yeah, he was.

I don't even go to any cons.

At two o'clock in the morning, I just get a text.

No more fucking favors.

No more fucking favors.

And I was like, I came for for i go is this for is this intended for me fuck yeah it was intended for you and i was just like what is going on he's like brian johnson didn't show up and i'm like what does that do with fucking me okay

i was texting you and q at the same time you're probably saying the same thing

to be fair i was in new orleans it was two in the morning you couldn't imagine what at what at what state i was in by then

mad and drama you know you could you could i mean i think i mode an apology if you want to do if you're you're on a you're on an apology role right now If you want to do an issue one for texting me at two o'clock in the morning.

Well, yeah, I apologize that I woke you up.

You're probably awake, but yeah, apologize for

involving you in something that you were not, you probably, you weren't even involved in.

I just were aware if I was there or not.

I just needed to vent to somebody who I thought might understand my frustration.

And I think, you know, you would, you had been frustrated.

But you had threatened me, though, with like.

Oh, no more favors?

Yeah, with like that I was going to pay the price.

I was like, it wasn't you per se.

I don't know.

You know, it was a blanket.

Like

at the time, I was like, man,

all the shit I've done

for that guy.

Like, no more.

It was more aimed at him.

But I didn't mean to

imply

that

you were going to suffer as well.

And you didn't.

Ultimately,

I didn't.

But I was scared.

I was.

You were scared?

Yeah.

It was going to happen.

I know.

No, that somehow there were going to be like

there was going to be

a big fallout.

We wouldn't talk to each other for two years.

years yeah no two weeks two weeks two weeks that's two weeks and i made it right you did i made it right yeah see you learned an important lesson though you have to give a druggie wider latitude than the regular guy yes like if it were today you know i'd show up oh sure there's no doubt about it yeah yeah yeah

yeah i i'll yes i did learn that harsh harsh lesson that uh yeah this was roxy's real reared its ugly head yeah yeah not fun yeah i was uh i was uh very

reluctant to get sage was sick recently i wrote her to urgent care and they gave her this uh syrup this cough syrup the it's a promothalazine or something like that and it's the shit that they use to make lean or purple drank you know it's a codeine syrup uh and what it does is it tricks your brain into not coughing and

i don't know if you remember but like remember on comic book man there was one summer where i was like i could not stop fucking coughing yep it was like there was a tickle in my throat and i was taking that shit all summer yeah in addition to the fucking rock season stuff Wow, you're on a roll, man.

Yeah, yeah.

What does it do?

The syrup?

Yeah.

I don't know.

There's some kind of, I don't know if it's, it must be the codeine.

So that syrup is no longer used in soda any longer?

No, no.

The purple drink is like a

concoction that a lot of like

rappers and gangsters and stuff.

Yeah, they invented it in Houston, I think.

It's you know, it's supposed to get you drunk and high and shit.

But it's cough syrup.

It's cough syrup, but it has codeine in it.

Oh, gosh.

Which is not legal without a prescription in this country.

Yeah, like right-aids, right?

I saw a sign at Rite Aid the other day when I was picking up my medication.

They're like, we're not even going to carry it anymore.

Because people don't want to deal with opiates.

Yeah, they just don't want to deal with opium.

Oh,

it fucks you.

Oh, it gets you high.

It makes you feel good.

All right.

I thought it was just basically all it did was make you stop coffee.

And you know how I'm cured?

There's still a full bottle of it in my house.

Wow.

I didn't drink it.

You're like chugging it down.

I didn't mix it up with some sprite.

That purple drink.

A little purple drink.

And your tongue's all purple.

Hey, guys.

Yeah, they put like Jolly Ranchers in it to make it sweeter.

So it doesn't taste like coffee.

You've never heard of it.

Yep.

Yeah.

It's a new thing, man.

All the kids are doing it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The high school kids, if you're going to.

You can get done to clutch it.

If you can get a hold of that shit.

Drink some purple drink, man.

And you're a lowrider.

Yeah.

Well, thank you, Ming.

We appreciate you coming out.

Oh, yeah.

We broke one of his rules, though.

He's like, don't go over an hour.

And we went.

Oh, come on.

Hour and 20 minutes.

Oh,

wow.

Yeah, this is your show, not mine.

So

yeah,

you guys operate by your own rules.

That's why you guys have gone over 600 episodes.

You keep throwing it out there, like

you're trying like that we play like our own rules and we do what we want.

I was just like,

is that the aura that we put out there?

And I believe so, yeah.

We're kind of like rebel.

I believe so, yeah.

Really?

I like that.

There was, um, there was a strip that came out recently on TSD Comics on Instagram, and it's,

you were asking who's the bad boy of podcasts.

And I said, if you're talking about bad at it, it's probably Mike and me.

So I think maybe we could be the bad boys of podcasting, right?

Right.

I mean, do you know anybody else who's as rebellious as we are?

No, not really.

Definitely.

Wait, in 2024?

Like, I think of you.

I think of freaking, like, like Bill Lambert,

like,

the bad boys with pistons in 1989, like, won the championships.

Like, you know, this guy throwing elbows at the podcast.

I had no idea you held us in that regard.

Sure.

Really?

Like, To me, it feels more like clown shoes.

Clown shoes.

Still, people are laughing, man.

Maybe five bucks a month for those clown shoes.

Continue to do it.

Patreon.com/slash T-E-S T, man.

Wow, look at this motherfucker.

It's a promotion machine.

Yeah, man.

Hashtag fucking five bucks.

Hashtag Patreon.

Heck yeah, man.

Hashtag, tell them, Steve, Dave.