South Beach Sessions - Max Greenfield

Speaker 1 We're listening to DraftKings Network.

Speaker 2 Usually I look at this camera and I welcome people into South Beach sessions, but Max Greenfield has requested that this be more intimate.

Speaker 2 So tell me how you want to do this so that there can be a maximum intimate conversation.

Speaker 3 I would have liked for you to have recorded everything we said for the last 20 minutes.

Speaker 2 Well, you're asking me a lot of questions. You're a sports dork.
You were asking me a lot of questions.

Speaker 2 I should tell the people when I'm introducing you that a man on the inside is what you're doing now with our friend Mike Scher on Netflix.

Speaker 3 Friend of the show.

Speaker 2 Yes, but you're not just here because, you know, you want to hang out. We're plugging something, so I've done my part here.
Now we can go intimate.

Speaker 3 Yes, Man on the Inside, season two from creator Mike Schur, starring Ted Danson.

Speaker 2 And you're in the mix.

Speaker 3 I'm in the mix.

Speaker 2 We'll get that. Well, but they've welcomed you into their family.

Speaker 2 They seem like really

Speaker 2 decent people. It seems very un-Hollywood, whatever Ted Danson and Mike Scher and their significant others have going on.

Speaker 3 It's incredible. Mike Schur is the greatest.
I've known him for a very long time. We've been friendly for ages, and he finally invited me to come work with him.
And it was

Speaker 3 spectacular, as you would imagine.

Speaker 2 Okay, well I want to hear more about it.

Speaker 2 Should I introduce you as New Girl, the neighborhood? This is your

Speaker 2 writer of children's books. Like if you want to be identified publicly by your work, what is it that you would put in front of people to talk about?

Speaker 3 All those things sounded great.

Speaker 2 Okay. All right.
Well, children's books, like that seems like something that's far afield from everything else you're doing.

Speaker 3 Right.

Speaker 3 It came about in a very strange way.

Speaker 3 A worldwide pandemic hit.

Speaker 3 My daughter, who, you know, was she was like entering fourth grade, and there was some

Speaker 3 academic struggles happening.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 we had put put what they call scaffolding around her and support. And she finally was really thriving and doing well.
And she had some wonderful teachers in fourth grade.

Speaker 3 And then the pandemic hit and we were she was at school on a Friday and then a Saturday there was n like everyone felt like, whoa, this is bad.

Speaker 3 Sunday everybody was just like, I guess we're home for ever. And then Monday, the school sent us a curriculum that I was

Speaker 3 now tasked on teaching her. And I'm not the sharpest.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 you famously dropped out of school, right?

Speaker 3 I don't know, famously, but

Speaker 2 you went to pursue your dreams is a better way of putting it.

Speaker 3 I don't know if my father would say famously. Yes.
Disappointingly.

Speaker 2 School wasn't your thing.

Speaker 3 School was very difficult for me. It was not something that ever quite made sense.
Still kind of doesn't make sense to me.

Speaker 3 But yeah, we were stuck in a room with a curriculum and we looked at each other and she knew my struggles. And I would say to her,

Speaker 3 dad couldn't read any of this stuff.

Speaker 3 And so I would come into her room every once in a while. Hey, did you do your homework? And she's like, well, you definitely couldn't do it.
So why should I?

Speaker 3 And I'm like, that wasn't the point of the story.

Speaker 2 No, that really wasn't why I was sharing with you.

Speaker 2 Again, not good at learning, not good at teaching.

Speaker 3 Not good at parenting.

Speaker 3 And so anyway, so we

Speaker 3 took to Instagram and took a picture because both of us were completely overwhelmed and frightened. And I think we captioned it, Professor Greenfield.

Speaker 3 We threw it out there and using social media in the way that I think it should be used, which is we're scared, we're overwhelmed, we feel very alone.

Speaker 3 We want to connect with other people and see, hopefully, that other people are feeling the same way as we are. And we got this tremendous response.

Speaker 3 And all these first responders called in or you know, wrote on the Instagram and said, oh, these are great. We miss our students so much.
I'm in the hospital.

Speaker 3 Our shift is, you know, God only knows how long. These, these, these pictures, these videos that we started to do are getting us through this.

Speaker 3 And so my daughter and I just started to break up the school day by making these videos. And within that, I had an agent call me and was like, you know, what can we do with this?

Speaker 3 And I was like, I don't know if we're doing anything.

Speaker 2 So wait, so the agent did jazz hands, all the whole thing. Like, I've arrived here.
Wait, you've got a sweet, pure thing. How do we commercialize it?

Speaker 2 Well, and so you're like, no, it's got a better soul than that. It shouldn't be quite that quick and dirty.

Speaker 3 Yes. And I said, we're not doing anything.
He goes, well, what if it's like,

Speaker 3 first he said, what if it was a podcast? And I said, I don't want to hear myself talk that long. I haven't done a podcast in a really long time.
I'm like, I love you and I love Mike. And I was like,

Speaker 3 I really want to be here.

Speaker 3 But I'm so sick of hearing myself talk.

Speaker 2 That's not usually the way that one goes in acting. I thought you were supposed to be really enraptured with the way that you talk.

Speaker 3 I did a podcast a while ago and it was one I listened to and wanted to be on. And as soon as I said yes to it and then was in the moment of

Speaker 3 participating in it, I thought, oh my God, I'm like the last person I want to hear on this show. And this was such a bad idea.

Speaker 2 This is such a good sales job, by the way, on the idea of you're going to find all of this interesting. I promise you.
It's just...

Speaker 2 He's not going to find it interesting because he's bored by the sound of his own voice. This, though, is an interesting playground for you.

Speaker 2 So you made something pure in collaboration with your daughter. It was artistic at a scared time.
Yes. It created community.
But on top of that, I found that a lot of actors, creative types, like

Speaker 2 I've talked to a number of people in this setting.

Speaker 2 Let me see who was,

Speaker 2 I'm trying to think of, oh, Lewis Black

Speaker 2 is home for a day alone in the pandemic and starts looking at his life and doesn't like what it is that he's seeing and needs to start creating immediately because creatives have to create.

Speaker 2 So you do this with your daughter, though, but it's organic.

Speaker 3 very organic and also we were receiving all of this really positive Feedback from people who were on the front lines of something that was happening that felt very that was very very intense so community the power of community the power of not alone and we thought if we could continue to bring joy to people's lives through Instagram like great we'll do it so we we we did it and and and it was nice and people it just the comments were so positive and sweet and I think they were really uplifting for her during that time you the first person ever to have a positive experience with social media.

Speaker 3 And so, and so, um, they said, what if it's a podcast? I go, please, God, I can't do a podcast. Uh, and they said, what if it's a book?

Speaker 2 I go, a real book?

Speaker 3 And he goes, no, no, no, no. And he knew me.

Speaker 3 And he goes, well, what if it's a picture book, like a children's book? And I love children's books. And I read them to both my kids.
And

Speaker 3 they were about the right length for me.

Speaker 3 And I had always had an idea about a children's book that I would have liked to have written, written, but obviously was never motivated to do.

Speaker 3 And I said, well, if I was ever going to write a children's book, it would be called, I don't want to read this book.

Speaker 3 And it would be all the reasons why a kid doesn't want to read a book, but by the end of the book, they will have read a book. And so he said, can I pitch that? And I go, go for it.

Speaker 3 And then like two days later, I remember thinking, that was actually a really good idea. And I would like to write that book.
It's a shame nothing will ever happen with it.

Speaker 3 And then I think a day after that, he called me. He goes, we've sold it to Penguin.
And I go, you got to be kidding me.

Speaker 2 So it was just an idea, really. Totally.
And it doesn't have much of anything to do

Speaker 2 with what we were just talking about, right?

Speaker 2 Like, it's like there's no, you're writing an anti-learning book that's funny for kids from an adult perspective that treats them like adults by speaking to their language.

Speaker 2 Nobody actually wants to be doing this.

Speaker 3 Yes. And also, like.

Speaker 3 the struggles that one has with it or that a child has with it or that I had with it or that a parent has with it trying to get their chill their child who has problems with it.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 it articulates a lot of those feelings and

Speaker 3 insecurities and hopefully creates a conversation for a child and a teacher, a librarian, whatever it is,

Speaker 3 a parent. And

Speaker 3 it was so relevant and present and part of my experience that writing it was

Speaker 2 a piece of cake. Well, when you say part of your experience, you're talking about your troubles with school, right? Or whatever the the whatever the norm was on how you were supposed to learn.

Speaker 3 Yes, for sh for sure.

Speaker 3 It it you know times are a lot different now and and I think if you if if you have the resources which you know we do you you you and I feel very grateful to have those resources but not a lot of people do actually.

Speaker 3 You know

Speaker 3 you can identify

Speaker 3 real differences that kids have in their learning experience.

Speaker 3 I grew up in a a situation where we did not have those resources and no one identified those differences. And it wasn't until much later that I was like, oh yeah, there's some real issues here.

Speaker 3 And so, you know,

Speaker 3 the books, and there's been multiple books since then, but

Speaker 3 they they're not like solving child like childhood literacy in our country, but it's another tool for teachers. And I just got back from the Indiana

Speaker 3 Youth Institute conference and spoke to a bunch of, like, they have this beautiful conference they do. It was there Monday

Speaker 3 with all educators and youth workers and everybody and spoke to them about these books.

Speaker 3 And it's just all adding to the conversation and trying to get kids to open up and talk about what's going on with them and what struggles they might be having in a classroom that they're unable to articulate.

Speaker 2 It's interesting that you're sort of...

Speaker 2 framing it in a wonderful nobility when really there's just all the bleep you in you of I was someone who didn't like write to read books, now I write them.

Speaker 2 I was somebody who didn't do well in school, now I'm part of a lecture series at the school after I have dropped out. Like this is an undercurrent in your life, right?

Speaker 2 Make something out of taking a different path.

Speaker 3 Yes, and also just, I can't believe I'm here.

Speaker 3 I was on stage at this thing.

Speaker 3 I was on stage and I read, I was reading, well, who have you guys had before this who spoke at this conference? And they they were like, well, you know, we had Bill Nye a couple years ago.

Speaker 3 And Maya Angelou came and spoke, LeVar Burton. And I go, wow, you really.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they exhausted all of the

Speaker 2 good guests. I'm like, I'm so sorry.
That's good company. Yeah, that you're keeping good company.
I know.

Speaker 3 It has been a wild, wild experience.

Speaker 2 All right. Well, take me back to why are you dropping out of school and why don't you believe in school? And how does that go over with the family?

Speaker 3 I shouldn't say that I don't believe in school. I just,

Speaker 3 I couldn't do it.

Speaker 2 I, you know, there was a party said you don't understand school.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think there was a part of me for a really long time that thought, you know, probably in my 20s and 30s, like, if I wanted to go back and I really tried,

Speaker 3 I could probably do it. And

Speaker 3 at some point, I got to a place where I realized I actually don't think I

Speaker 3 can.

Speaker 3 I think there's

Speaker 3 requirements

Speaker 2 for

Speaker 3 graduating a university or college that I really think I'm incapable of doing.

Speaker 2 What is it? It's not a lack of discipline. What is it? Scatter mind? Your brain works differently than the customized ways of learning?

Speaker 3 I get distracted very easily.

Speaker 3 And if I find that I'm just not interested in something or that I've exhausted all areas of interest, and this is not for me.

Speaker 3 I don't, it's very hard for me to stick with it.

Speaker 2 So, you follow your heart? Like, you're well aware of what your intuitions are, what you like and what you don't like.

Speaker 2 And so, you were strong enough at whatever was, you were 17 years old to tell your dad or whoever you'd be disappointing here, I'm not doing this anymore. It's not for me.

Speaker 3 I would say strength was not what I would call it.

Speaker 3 I would probably

Speaker 3 lean more into fear at that point.

Speaker 3 I

Speaker 3 was just so overwhelmed and terrified of

Speaker 3 engaging

Speaker 3 in any type of

Speaker 3 education.

Speaker 3 And it just didn't feel like this is where, I can't really articulate it, but it just, I had a, I guess, a gut feeling where this is not the place for me.

Speaker 3 organized learning being in a university or a college is not the place for me and then you know I had I get I whatever it took to have the conversation with my father about I'm not going to continue this which he was like oh my god

Speaker 3 and then

Speaker 3 found an acting class

Speaker 2 how does this go how does this go over though with the family you're basically not well not not well um I mean you're quitting on what their idea was a life of discipline or safety, and you're not their responsibility anymore.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think as a parent, you know,

Speaker 3 you can get a vibe on your kid and see what they're going through.

Speaker 3 And I think

Speaker 3 there must have been some sort of understanding that this is a real struggle for my son here.

Speaker 3 And he

Speaker 3 at least has an alternative path, which maybe is not one that I agree with or that scares me as a parent.

Speaker 3 But God bless my parents. They both, you know, reluctantly, I think, against their better judgment, supported an alternative.

Speaker 2 My father didn't speak to me for a while when I was in college, like, because like you keep in mind, he comes in and he's an exile, and all he's trying to do is make sure that I get to a safe path.

Speaker 2 Engineering seems like a safe path. And I tell him I want to be a writer when I am.
And so I got a lot of silence after that. It wasn't a lot of support and I wasn't strong enough.

Speaker 2 Like you say you're not strong, but there is absolutely strength in that age of saying, you know what, I'm not going to do what you want. My body's recoiling against this.

Speaker 2 I'm going to go do what I want.

Speaker 2 That's absolutely grown up.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. But I will say, and I have a question, though, because the 20 minutes you cut out of this interview in the beginning was a beautiful sort of discussion we were having about your father.

Speaker 3 And I wonder if when you told him that you were going to be a writer, was there any fear on his part about you expressing ideas and being public with your thoughts?

Speaker 2 That sounds good, but it was just who's going to pay you to do that? Right.

Speaker 2 I came to this country,

Speaker 2 sacrificed everything so that you can go to a private school. You need to be an engineer.

Speaker 2 You need to do something that's serious.

Speaker 2 So your heart sending you or your fear, you're classifying as fear, is chasing the arts. You felt like you had to do something creative.

Speaker 3 I think there was like a lack of understanding, too, because my father was

Speaker 3 and very successful, but was in finance.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 3 it's a different brain. The arts were not, you know, a part of his experience.

Speaker 2 And his experience.

Speaker 2 The arts. My father's an engineer.
He's coming from Cuba.

Speaker 2 Expression's not an expression's not a thing. Never mind the arts.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 He actually,

Speaker 3 so my dad worked,

Speaker 3 he was in the finance department at several different record labels. So he would work with

Speaker 3 artists, musicians,

Speaker 3 and they would come in, you know, they'd ask him for money because they'd be like, we need to do this.

Speaker 3 And I remember his last job was at Warner Brothers Records. And KRS1 was like, do you remember KRS1?

Speaker 2 You were so eager to have the recognition in my eyes that said, yes, I know.

Speaker 2 For a second, I was like, maybe this one's going to be a little bit more. No, we're over now.
We're together here. We're together.
You're a little young for this, it feels like.

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 3 KRS-1 came in, and we're from New York. So KRS-1 came in, and he was working at War Brothers at the time.

Speaker 3 And he was, I think, heading up their hip-hop

Speaker 3 label. And he was having like this discussion with my father.
My father comes in. He's like, and I walked in and he's like, Max, Max, come in.
He goes, I'd like you to introduce.

Speaker 3 You don't have to introduce me to anybody.

Speaker 3 And then Garrison is having like this intense conversation with my father,

Speaker 3 but a good one,

Speaker 3 turns around and then immediately realizes, like, oh, this kid knows my music a little bit. And then gives me like a few bars from some song.
And I was just like, oh, my God.

Speaker 3 And my dad was like, okay, please, can we continue this?

Speaker 3 But so he had experience with artists and that side of what we do and being in it.

Speaker 3 But I also think he was very aware of how difficult it was.

Speaker 3 And you just, I think you don't want to see, as a parent myself, like you don't want to see your children in harm's way or struggle or anything. But

Speaker 3 it takes a lot of love on

Speaker 3 and it did on his part and my mother's part

Speaker 3 for them to sort of put that aside.

Speaker 3 At least understand that they really didn't have a choice in this.

Speaker 2 So what did the climb look like after that, though? Because you came to success pretty early, didn't you? No.

Speaker 3 No, there was 10 years of.

Speaker 2 There was 10 to 11.

Speaker 3 Actually, it was more than that. It was about 12 years of really just

Speaker 3 slamming my head into a wall.

Speaker 3 Probably both literally and figuratively.

Speaker 3 It was a tough run.

Speaker 3 It was a really

Speaker 3 challenging run.

Speaker 2 So hold on. So give it up.
So you've got these dreams that everyone here has, right? And And you don't have any of the disciplines

Speaker 2 that would be learned traditionally in school, but you don't necessarily need them for what it is that you're trying to do. But you also don't know very much about what you're doing.

Speaker 3 Right, right. But I had some wonderful teachers who

Speaker 2 were

Speaker 3 able to show me how to do this.

Speaker 3 showed me who to look at, who did this best, and really started to study what it is I feel like I do now.

Speaker 3 And by the way, way, I was attracted to all the people who are nowhere near doing the things that I ended up doing.

Speaker 3 And,

Speaker 3 but I felt like I was on a path and learning and just totally inspired and had moments. Because you don't always have these, like, especially with acting, it's like, you know, you're up on it.

Speaker 3 It's always like, this didn't go well. Or that, that felt weird.
And every once in a while, you get a moment where you, especially early on, where it drops in and it works. And you go, whoa.

Speaker 2 This is why I'm doing it.

Speaker 3 This is what i'm chasing yeah and like that's it and i was totally out of my head and i wasn't thinking about the thing and i did enough work where you drop into it and you're in it and it's great um

Speaker 3 And so it gave me enough of fuel to be like, this is what I want.

Speaker 2 But that's all you need for learning, right? That for you. Like that, this is the learning that you want where you're inspired to do it.
Don't have me learn the way that you teach everybody else.

Speaker 3 Well, also, like, I just never was, I never had that experience with anything else in my life where I was like, I want to do this.

Speaker 3 This fills me in a way that I, this connects with me in a way that nothing else does.

Speaker 3 And so

Speaker 3 went out and chased it as hard as I could.

Speaker 3 And,

Speaker 3 you know, was fortunate, I guess, for a while,

Speaker 3 probably like in my mid-20s, where I started to

Speaker 3 actually audition for things. And there was a run towards the end of my 20s where I was just getting really close on everything.

Speaker 3 Where

Speaker 3 I would, it would be like down to me and another guy, or just the producers would be like, We only want him, and it was, and it just kept happening over and over and over and over again, but not working out.

Speaker 2 So, but 10 to 12 years, you're just getting bit parts, or you're not even getting bit parts, a few bit parts here and there,

Speaker 3 and then just just never connecting on anything that felt you know substantial or real like you never you want to be a part of the show as opposed to you know you come in for a day on the show and I was doing like a day here and there or a few days here and there and had some like really wonderful advocates early on but it just doesn't it didn't feel like it was ever gonna click

Speaker 1 Hey Chris. Hey Jeremy.
I've got kind of an open secret, but I want to tell you what it is here because Mike's not here right now. You better whisper.

Speaker 2 I really like it when the hurricanes lose and it gives me a reason to celebrate when I'm watching college football. Well, let's open a Miller Light in cheers.
Yeah, do you know? Exactly.

Speaker 2 That's what I was going to ask you. Do you know how I do that?

Speaker 2 There's nothing quite like it.

Speaker 2 It's really a spectacular thing to have for your college football Sunday.

Speaker 3 It's so good.

Speaker 2 Game day, it's different with Miller Light in your hand. You don't have to whisper the whole time.
I can't stop.

Speaker 1 From jaw-dropping touchdowns to fantasy heartbreaks, it's the beer that's been there for every moment. 50 years of great taste.

Speaker 1 Symbol ingredients and that iconic golden color that you can spot from across the room. I see one right now.
I'm looking across the room. I like the way that you flirt with Miller Light.

Speaker 1 I mean, it looks, look at it.

Speaker 2 It looks great. It's looking at me.
Do you want to know why?

Speaker 1 I'm looking at it. It's looking at me.
It's probably because it's just 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. It's the original light beer since 1975, which means, it's that Bob Ryan age.

Speaker 1 Still hitting different five decades later. Miller Light, great taste, 96 calories.
Go to millerlight.com slash beach to find delivery options near you.

Speaker 1 Or you can pick up some Miller Light pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time.
Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Speaker 1 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. Miller Light, I want you in me.

Speaker 2 So a decade of on the side, you're also working in a retirement home or you're also doing spin classes, you're teaching spin classes?

Speaker 3 There's a lot of jobs.

Speaker 2 And a lot of bad jobs or a lot of okay jobs or a lot of jobs that you were like, okay, I want to make sure that I get out of doing this job. I need to stop doubting and have some success.

Speaker 3 I was kind of messing around for a really long time. The spin classes were great because it was my friend Andrea's gym, and she allowed me to use the gym for free if I taught the spin classes.

Speaker 3 So I didn't even get paid for those, but I was like, she'd let me come to the gym.

Speaker 2 Okay, so it wasn't even work.

Speaker 2 She let me come to the gym.

Speaker 2 So it's not a job. You're still not earning money.
The retirement home,

Speaker 2 the selling of drugs to old people, that was a really good job.

Speaker 3 That was not selling drugs to old people. That was delivering them.

Speaker 2 Pharmaceuticals in a retirement home. You were running an opioids game on old people, right? You were digging

Speaker 3 old people, too. I was not aware that they were opioids.
It was a box,

Speaker 3 and I would take that. It may not have been opioids.
I don't know what it was.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you don't know. It was a box, and that's the end of your life.

Speaker 3 I worked for the delivery service.

Speaker 3 Oh, man, you'd end up in these.

Speaker 2 God damn it. Tell me.
I want to hear about the retirement homes. So you're drifting.

Speaker 3 You're dreaming of acting and you're drifting through retirement homes with a box of pills well like so most actors get jobs as waiters but i was too scared to be a waiter because i didn't think i could remember people's orders and i just thought the the environment was too stressful for me and i needed to just be on my own and so i had gotten a job i had gotten a job and i was like i can drive and so I got this job delivering pharmaceuticals

Speaker 3 to old age homes. And you would go to like, you know, some warehouse where they go, okay, this is going to such and such.

Speaker 3 And they give you the boxes, you put them in your car, and then you drive them out to like, you know, Oxnard or whatever, where there's an old age home, and you would deliver these forms, and they'd have signed for it and whatever.

Speaker 3 But some of these homes, it was a really eye-opening experience.

Speaker 2 Just, I mean, that's going to be sad, sure. It's going to be hard.
You're going to be surrounded by mortality and age and sickness. No, this sounds like not a great job.

Speaker 3 It was so awful. And then at some point, I was like, this is too intense for me.

Speaker 3 I can't go into another old age home. But the same company referred me then to a different company, which was at that time called the Go-Between, which doesn't exist anymore, but it was like for

Speaker 3 everybody in the business. And so if an agency had like a package that they had to like to deliver to Brad Pitt, they would give you like a pack.

Speaker 3 You'd go to the agency, pick it up, and then you'd drive it over to Brad Pitt.

Speaker 3 And so that was really fun, but also super depressing, too, because you were like, I was like driving to all these places and a part of this world that I so badly wanted to be in.

Speaker 3 And I was like, I'm just, I'm dropping off

Speaker 3 this, I'm dropping off the pangs.

Speaker 2 So the closest you're getting to the fragrance of Bread Pitt is dropping off a pharmaceutical bag to his assistant.

Speaker 3 I did have to drop off. He was dating Jennifer Anderson at the time, and they had like

Speaker 3 some sort of alias name on there but somebody at the company was like hey man that's brad and jen's house and i was like oh shit

Speaker 2 this is this is just terrible so this is how you spend 10 to 12 years 10 to 12 years not slumming

Speaker 2 slumming around the gutters of hollywood trying to figure it out i i disrespected you by saying you came to success pretty early you're like no it was shitty for 12 years it was it was shitty and there's some personal issues that i was trying to deal with and and uh

Speaker 3 and i i was able to sort of find some sort of you were a child when you got to Hollywood, right?

Speaker 2 You're a bit of a little bit reckless, immature, whatever. You want to live a Hollywood life, but you are not an adult yet.

Speaker 3 I don't know that I wanted to live a Hollywood life, but

Speaker 3 I don't truly know what I wanted. I think now with,

Speaker 3 you know, I wanted to be doing what I'm doing now and have been doing for the last couple years,

Speaker 3 which is working and doing what I love.

Speaker 3 And I just, I wasn't able to, I didn't know what that was yet.

Speaker 3 And I also, like,

Speaker 3 for sure wasn't capable of doing that when I was that age.

Speaker 3 And then, you know,

Speaker 3 what really happened was I had met my wife

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 she had gotten pregnant with our first child, Lily, our daughter.

Speaker 3 And I was running around on audition. to auditions and I thought, I don't want to be the guy who's like, you know, bringing the car seat into an audition, be like, listen, man,

Speaker 3 I'm just going to, like, my voice is probably, I just don't want to make the baby, but like, I can obviously do this at a higher volume.

Speaker 3 It just felt like a very selfish,

Speaker 3 it felt like a selfish choice at that point to put this career ahead of what was so obviously now important. And I thought, I've got to try to find employment elsewhere.

Speaker 3 And so I really started looking.

Speaker 3 And luckily, no one hired me.

Speaker 2 Oh, so you were looking to quit.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 I was looking at other,

Speaker 3 but I had no education and no experience. And I couldn't go back to selling for a while.

Speaker 2 Oh, so you were that close to quitting. You have a child.
You don't know. You need to make a good living to raise the child.
Your wife is a casting director as well.

Speaker 2 So she's from the business and she's telling you go find a different job or she's encouraging

Speaker 3 no, she, you know, she has her own story. She just had a beautiful book that came out last year called We've Decided to Go in a Different Direction.

Speaker 2 I thought, by the way, when I researched this, they told me that your relationship is covered a lot in there.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, what an odd title for happily married people to have a book about their relationship. We've decided to go in a different direction.

Speaker 3 And then I realized it was just about I was promoting it at one point and had a conversation just like this before it came out. And I was like, the book is great.
It's called We've Decided.

Speaker 3 And they said, is it about your divorce? I go, we're not divorced.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 it's about her losing her job at the beginning of the pandemic and

Speaker 3 her father at the end of the pandemic. And

Speaker 3 she goes back and forth between those.

Speaker 3 Those are sort of like the goalposts of the story, but there's a lot of, she pulls our relationship into it.

Speaker 3 I think it's the best book I've ever read.

Speaker 3 And I'm not very good at reading.

Speaker 3 But she did this beautiful job on the book.

Speaker 3 But so she had lost, she was at the WB,

Speaker 3 the original WB for forever and was the casting executive there. And

Speaker 3 then eventually moved,

Speaker 3 and then when the WB exploded or the CW, whatever it was,

Speaker 3 it took her a while to get back on her feet and find a new job. And it was sort of around the same time I was looking for work.

Speaker 2 Oh, shit. So this is real turmoil.
Like you, you're, you've got the fear of responsibility in a child when both of you are in total career upheaval.

Speaker 3 Yes, she, yes, yes.

Speaker 3 We,

Speaker 3 Tess was pregnant and we both didn't really have work.

Speaker 3 It was only a few, like literally within the same week, she.

Speaker 2 That's Gallows humor, you laughing at that, right? Yes.

Speaker 2 You're laughing at how

Speaker 2 terrifying it would be to be bringing a child into the world with neither one of you having real work or feeling like feeling you're lost at sea occupationally yes i remember going to i remember um

Speaker 3 going to a doctor's appointment with her um

Speaker 3 and having to pay for the doctor and this is while we were trying to figure out if

Speaker 3 we were gonna

Speaker 3 try to have a child and I remember thinking like paying the bill and going

Speaker 3 I think and I didn't tell her we were married at the time but I was like I think I have about $240 left in my bank account oh wow that's lonely I was like man

Speaker 3 maybe we put the put the kid thing off for

Speaker 2 put it on layaway put the child on layaway

Speaker 3 but yeah but anyway so she she had Within the same week that that

Speaker 3 we had found out Tess was pregnant,

Speaker 3 she

Speaker 3 found out she was being hired at Fox as a casting executive. And so that was a big deal.
And we really wanted to allow, I really wanted to allow her to have that experience fully.

Speaker 3 Because the first nine months of that experience for her was she was pregnant.

Speaker 3 And it only progressed and got more intense, the pregnancy, and took her sort of focus off the job. And then once Lily was born, I was like, go

Speaker 2 do it.

Speaker 3 You be there. I'll take care of our child.

Speaker 3 It's not like I'm working.

Speaker 2 Oh, but this part is hard to confront, though. Now you're making the decision and you're at the crossroads of the abyss.
On I don't want to be the man who brings the baby carriage to the audition.

Speaker 2 So do I need to let go of my dreams?

Speaker 3 Yeah, and at that point,

Speaker 3 I think what was interesting about it was I was like, oh, I don't know that my dreams were

Speaker 2 the

Speaker 3 I don't know that my dreams were ever going to fulfill me in the way that this child has.

Speaker 3 Those all seem futile now.

Speaker 2 Nice.

Speaker 2 What a lovely thing to see.

Speaker 3 And so I, yeah, and I sort of was like, oh, this other thing is not that important. And so I started to look for employment elsewhere.

Speaker 3 And meanwhile, Tess was having this incredible experience at work and really shining.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 it was probably because of that shift in perspective that I was able to approach what I was doing in a different way.

Speaker 3 And then was very lucky and New Girl came out.

Speaker 2 Approach it in a different way. How? You were just sort of come what may.
My life has been altered now. I have different priorities.
And

Speaker 3 I don't need this job anymore. I don't need this thing anymore.
And I'm only doing it. And really with that one specifically, with New Girl, it was written so well.

Speaker 3 Liz Merriweather, who wrote The Pilot, who created the series and wrote most of the episodes, she's such a phenomenal writer. And that material was so good.

Speaker 3 And I thought, well, I'm surely never going to get this. But I wanted to just perform

Speaker 2 the

Speaker 3 material that they had given me. And so I just took the joy of doing that.

Speaker 3 And then the next thing you know, they were like, you're the guy we want to hire. And then I thought, well, I'll never get it.

Speaker 3 And, you know, the rest sort of thing.

Speaker 2 And does that, you would qualify that as your big break? Oh, for sure.

Speaker 3 Without question.

Speaker 2 So, but so everything before that is hustle, grind, hope, but not feel like you're actually making it. I'm coming in second place all the time.
And if new girl doesn't happen,

Speaker 2 you're probably not long for the job?

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 Like, you're

Speaker 3 really done.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I was for sure done.

Speaker 3 I almost didn't want to do it anymore.

Speaker 2 And then everything changed.

Speaker 2 Because being a dad changed you that much instantaneously?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I was kind of embarrassed. I sort of had to look at this.
I was like,

Speaker 3 I don't want to be doing this anymore.

Speaker 3 I don't want to be running.

Speaker 3 This feels self. It felt selfish to me.

Speaker 2 Small and selfish comparatively.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. And I didn't want to participate in that anymore.
I was like, let me find a way to... And again,

Speaker 3 not only as a parent, but as a husband to my wife who was doing so well, I was like, I can be of service to our family in a much different way and more effective way than running around and doing this thing.

Speaker 2 So you don't then graduate to what many people graduate to with what is perceived as success, which is you neglect family in pursuit of fame, glory, money, and vanity.

Speaker 3 That was not my experience. I did not choose that.

Speaker 2 But I'm saying that

Speaker 2 many people in this field have to choose themselves selfishly, often with an imbalance that neglects family, right? And the conquering hunt of, like, this is a cutthroat business.

Speaker 2 Like, it's really, it's really hard to succeed.

Speaker 3 It's very hard. And I think people are put in that position to make really challenging.

Speaker 3 You know, if you're lucky enough to have those challenging decisions to make where am I, and I think you always have them, but it's to what it's really, some of them are to a great extent.

Speaker 3 Um, am I going to leave my family and go run after this thing? Um,

Speaker 3 and you get to sort of do the calculus on it of like, well, how much is this going to affect my family? How long am I going to be away?

Speaker 3 And so, you know, you put all that into the

Speaker 2 so you've you've arrived at a life perspective now that has put the proper balance, or you've always been there between career and family?

Speaker 3 At that moment,

Speaker 3 yeah, and I think leading up to that moment, I think I always had

Speaker 3 when I decided that I was done,

Speaker 3 it really

Speaker 3 felt very clear to me what was important in my life.

Speaker 3 And since New Girl, and there's been some incredible moments since then,

Speaker 3 I'd say for the very most part, it has felt very clear to me like what my priorities are and what's important.

Speaker 2 But you can't believe you're here? Like that's not, you don't feel like an imposter. You don't feel like it's unearned.
You don't feel like you've worked hard enough to

Speaker 3 no, I just can't believe it continues.

Speaker 3 And some of the places that like it's taken me

Speaker 3 It's been it's been what none of this has been planned.

Speaker 2 Well because you've worked well what do you you mean, though? You're working for 12 years.

Speaker 2 Perhaps it doesn't have the structure or scaffolding that you want, but you're working for 12 years planning something, planning to get to something.

Speaker 3 Well, I don't know.

Speaker 3 Did you have a plan?

Speaker 2 I was only good at one thing. I was writing.
And so they told me in high school I was good at writing. I didn't have a lot of confidence elsewhere.
That seemed like a fun and different thing.

Speaker 2 And so that was the thing. I didn't like science.
I didn't like math. I was decent at school.

Speaker 2 I was good at school because I was responsible, but the act of learning wasn't, I liked writing and I was told I was good at it. And so I kept doing that.
Right.

Speaker 2 And then along the path, there were lonely outposts on career achievement where I'm like, I need to do something different here that's more communal because this place that's supposed to be the mountaintop is still a little bit empty.

Speaker 2 It's not. It's not what I imagined it was going to be.
Writing is lonely. I'm not having interactions with people.

Speaker 2 I'm I'm creating things, but it's just obsessive, compulsive, and it's not a great process. So then I just, I start doing other things that are, that have more laughter in them.

Speaker 2 Even the radio show I was doing, I was, I did for 10 years a radio show by myself and didn't realize while I was doing it because I'm in my own head and in my own voice.

Speaker 2 I was never laughing because if you're doing a show by yourself,

Speaker 2 you're not quite so crazy unless you're Colin Cowherd.

Speaker 2 That

Speaker 2 you're going to be making yourself laugh. And so, whatever,

Speaker 2 I mean, I imagine the way that you're built, you're finding yourself either in places or choosing places where you're going to make sure you're laughing.

Speaker 3 Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 But again, to go back to what we were saying, you know,

Speaker 3 it felt like the plan was,

Speaker 3 I don't even, plan may be the wrong word. It's, I have this, I feel this pull to start writing.
And then all of a sudden

Speaker 3 it feels

Speaker 3 like I need like oh

Speaker 3 this wasn't fully it and there have been moments where it's it but it's run its course and now I feel lonely and I want to do it in a different way and now I feel pulled to do something else so I don't know that like the plan is maybe the wrong word but it's where I've been pulled and where I've ended up that has been surprising and I think just like you know we were talking about ending ending up doing that beautiful show on ESPN that you had with

Speaker 3 your dad and that whole group. When you talk about being lonely, you had such a wonderful group on that show

Speaker 3 and all the wonderful characters. And it was such a familial thing.
And so to go from a place where you return to realize, oh, what I want is community and

Speaker 3 to laugh. And to laugh within a group and be a part of.

Speaker 2 But all of that, when you phrase it that way, none of that is really planned, right? These are opportunities that present themselves and then you get pulled.

Speaker 2 But I did not plan to have a television show with my father on ESPN. That's something that sort of happened.

Speaker 3 Yeah, exactly. And so these things sort of happen.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 it isn't until you sort of

Speaker 3 maybe

Speaker 3 become

Speaker 3 settle into that and become really aware and conscious of where you are and experience experience it.

Speaker 3 It's at that point that you say to yourself, oh my God, I can't believe I'm here. And there's a tremendous gratitude that comes with that.

Speaker 2 Well, where have you felt it the most? Like, if I say to you,

Speaker 2 and I will tell you that I feel those moments all the time, I'm not kidding you that I can say I felt it walking over here. Just the idea.
So lucky.

Speaker 2 My parents are Cuban exiles who would have had no access to the idea of creating things artfully as an expression of freedom.

Speaker 2 To walk down the Sunset Strip in order to come over here so that I could be brought interesting people who are stimulating from the world of entertainment.

Speaker 2 Like what fills me with every step is gratitude because I didn't plan this. Like this is something that just grew out of

Speaker 2 what I kept feeding, like something, a cauldron that I kept feeding where I could follow my interests. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 And it's so beautiful that you can have those moments that you're aware enough to be able to sort of,

Speaker 3 you're aware enough of what's happening and within yourself to understand that, like, oh, I'm really feeling this. And let me not, like, throw it away and just disregard it.

Speaker 2 Well, you can walk past joy. You can walk right past it without noticing it.

Speaker 3 I know it. You can walk past gratitude.
You can walk past anything.

Speaker 3 And it's being able to stop and really experience it and let it pass through you. And so you're able to experience the next thing is where that's, that's that's the place I try to live in.

Speaker 2 Well, but where did you learn the idea of listening to the pull?

Speaker 2 Like you were, you're you're you're what you were doing physically there is you turned a pull into a claw and then sort of made it, I didn't have a choice. I got yanked in this direction by the nose.

Speaker 2 I don't even know enough to have my fear not follow it. Like I just clearly have to go there.
I feel it in my innards.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. And that's sort of where I've

Speaker 3 that's been since I since I started working and since

Speaker 3 my wife and I started our family, that's been

Speaker 3 for the most part that pull is has

Speaker 2 been

Speaker 3 when that pull comes, it's been pretty clear. And it's when I start to pull myself

Speaker 3 that I get myself in a lot of trouble. Things you think you want or yeah, yeah, somebody have some ideas that are really

Speaker 2 they immediately get.

Speaker 2 So, oh, I'm a big Hollywood star. Let me see if I can just birth this.
And then someone tells you it's a bad idea. Who's most likely to do that? Is it Tess?

Speaker 3 Oh, no, no, no. I usually have to experience it.

Speaker 2 Oh, you have to go and fail.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Or experience real anguish and go, why does this hurt so bad? And it's like, oh, this was your idea, you moron.

Speaker 2 Why does this hurt you so bad? This is what I chose. This is what choice.

Speaker 3 And it takes me a really long time to get to the bottom of this is what you chose. And once I get down to this is what I chose, then it settles and you go, oh, oh, oh, of course.
So

Speaker 2 you're an idiot. You're not speaking spiritually to the idea of when I listen to the universe, things work out well.
When I think I'm in control, it's when they fall apart. 100%.

Speaker 2 Really?

Speaker 2 So you prefer to walk through life pretending like you don't know anything or self-deprecating about like, I don't belong here.

Speaker 2 I don't read books, but, oh, and I also get to do the things that I want professionally.

Speaker 3 I understand what you're saying. I get like the self-deprecating thing and everything.

Speaker 3 Maybe again, maybe it's the wrong way to articulate it, but it's

Speaker 3 the thing that I enjoy most in life.

Speaker 3 And which I try to stay connected to

Speaker 3 always. I love that we're having this conversation.
It's really nice. I didn't think we were going to go down this route.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 3 the thing that I love the most in life is discovery.

Speaker 3 And it's, again, like, it can be as simple as walking down the Sunset Strip and discovering that in this moment, I feel really grateful.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 opening that up and understanding why I'm having that feeling.

Speaker 3 And again, then letting it go. But like,

Speaker 3 the moments that feel like discovery to me are the most fulfilling. And it's like discovering that I'm now,

Speaker 3 you know,

Speaker 3 with the books and discovering new moments as a parent and discovering new moments as a husband and discovering new moments in life. It's like, and about myself and how I react to those things.

Speaker 3 And sometimes

Speaker 3 how I can better react to those things. But all of that feels like the most fulfilling part of

Speaker 3 living.

Speaker 3 And that's where I'm really, that's where I'm at.

Speaker 2 Well, I see the smile on your face and also sort of the mischievous child in, I think of discovery and wonder as not uniquely childlike, but adulthood happens.

Speaker 2 And then somewhere in there, the child in you gets killed. It doesn't seem like you've lost your enthusiasms for that.

Speaker 2 It seems, my guess is that if I was talking to your wife right now, she'd be very frustrated by some of the childlike elements that you have, but she also would love that she gets to see the child that you are because what a great thing to share with somebody who's an adult, but is just delighted like a child would be about whatever has made him grateful that day.

Speaker 3 Yeah, totally. And I think, you know, like what we talk about, like some of the fears and the other things, I think really

Speaker 3 have a way of suffocating that child and suffocating the ability to have those moments of discovery.

Speaker 3 And so it's trying my best on a daily basis to sort of put that at at bay so i can be open to whatever's in front of me are you hard on yourself i'm trying to ease up i've been i've been so much better lately

Speaker 2 are you are you hard on yourself brutal brutal yeah brutal uh and it doesn't i'm not sure it serves me anymore like i'm not like what's the

Speaker 2 what is what is

Speaker 2 i or or that it ever served me right if it's going to be punishing of yourself but i've always sort of in my head rationalized that if I place my standard in such an unforgiving place for myself, then I'll meet everyone else's standards on whatever it is that I'm making.

Speaker 2 Like if I just, whether it's writing or anything else, like that's, that's the way I've rationalized away being mean to myself. That it produces success.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Or I shouldn't even say success, that it produces achievement because achievement without happiness probably doesn't, it's probably not actually success.

Speaker 3 I heard somebody say once, and I really liked it. It was about sort of forgiveness, and it was, they said, something,

Speaker 3 the extent to which you judge others is the extent to which you judge yourself.

Speaker 3 And I was like, oh,

Speaker 3 God. And so I immediately stopped judging people in my life.
And I was just very conscious of it. I was like, I'm not going to do this anymore.
But then I was like,

Speaker 3 I'm still judging myself on such a high level.

Speaker 3 And I'm still, again, like you said, so mean to myself. What is going on? And so I'm really, I'm really

Speaker 3 trying

Speaker 3 to

Speaker 3 be kind to myself.

Speaker 2 Well, the people who've been listening to this for a while know that I say that I have no greater task that I've had in therapy other than finding ways to be nicer to myself. Like

Speaker 2 to, and yeah, and being in a loving relationship has also helped in that someone who loves me makes me feel like the ugly parts of myself are also acceptable.

Speaker 2 Or the parts that I'd like to hide or keep unseen

Speaker 2 aren't unseen and are also loved.

Speaker 3 And what have you discovered?

Speaker 2 On which part? On therapy or on the relationship and the relationship to yourself and

Speaker 3 what are the things that you do

Speaker 3 to ensure that you are kinder to yourself.

Speaker 2 Well, it's an awareness of being above it when I like, I don't know that people are constantly sort of understanding that they're being cruel to themselves.

Speaker 2 You have to be watching what it is that you're doing. You have to be outside of yourself, sort of observing yourself, right? It takes a level of self-awareness.

Speaker 2 I don't know if people who are walking around the world feeling things always know that they're feeling them.

Speaker 2 Like, if they know the depths of their unhappiness, if they numb themselves, if they're just sort of used to what their life experience has been.

Speaker 2 But when I have found very much over the course of, I'm going to say the last five years, losing my brother, you know,

Speaker 2 needing to be held up by people

Speaker 2 that there are parts of joy that are a choice, that

Speaker 2 I've been my own worst. And I'm like, if I'm going to choose to punish myself, I'm going to get in the way of my own happiness, right?

Speaker 2 If I can't, if I can't let things go, if I can't be easier, more forgiving on myself.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 it's like discovering that I have so much power over, that I'm giving myself so much power over myself.

Speaker 2 It's weird. It's a weird thing to discover this late in life.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 But what my therapist says is many people go to the grave without ever discovering it at all, right?

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 3 But yes,

Speaker 3 it's good. It's good to, I guess you're right.
It's very good to, it's good to be aware of all of it.

Speaker 2 But you don't present to someone who's particularly hard on yourself. Like, I know you don't have, you don't have this kind of success.
It's not an accident. You can pretend it's a happy accident.

Speaker 2 It's not an accident.

Speaker 3 Dan, I'm a very good actor.

Speaker 2 You can't even say it with a strange face, but somewhere inside you, you must know. You must know that you're pretty good.
You must know.

Speaker 3 No, I do. I do.

Speaker 2 I do.

Speaker 2 I do. I mean,

Speaker 2 you're working with people who are at the top end of the scale. You might not believe that you belong with them,

Speaker 2 but some part of you wants to believe he should be the actor who can compete with them.

Speaker 3 Right. Well, I don't know that compete is the right word, but I think,

Speaker 3 you know,

Speaker 3 I've been really lucky and I've been around some

Speaker 3 real heavyweights, Mike Schur being one of them.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 being with those folks and being able to collaborate with them

Speaker 3 and not feel like

Speaker 3 and not feel scared and not I mean, where it where it takes away from what we're trying to do and have an understanding about what they're talking about and what they're asking from you.

Speaker 3 Being in that situation

Speaker 3 and feeling like you are adding to what they're doing, that's a really good feeling.

Speaker 2 Well, where'd you get to that confidence, though? Because that's a rare feeling as well. Usually, the only way to get there is to

Speaker 2 stack successes atop each other.

Speaker 3 Well, I go in terrified. So, for like Mike Show.

Speaker 2 Ted Danson's an accomplished actor.

Speaker 3 Ted Danson is an accomplished actor.

Speaker 2 Who's worked with Mike Shore a lot?

Speaker 3 So Ted and I had spent a little time during

Speaker 3 the previous summer together. So Ted was not, I wasn't terrified of Ted

Speaker 3 or getting to know him, I was like, oh, this is the nicest man on earth.

Speaker 3 Sure, I was a little scared of. And Mike, who I've known forever, going into work with Mike,

Speaker 3 I know that Mike is one of the rare breeds of humans who work in our industry.

Speaker 3 So usually you have someone who writes and creates a show, and then sometimes that person, I mean, and it would make sense, isn't great at running the show.

Speaker 3 And that means producing it and putting it all together.

Speaker 3 It's like sometimes that person is just, sometimes they feel like it's best for that person just to write the show, and then they bring in someone called a showrunner. Okay.

Speaker 3 Very rarely you get somebody who's excellent at both.

Speaker 3 Mike is one of those people. And so it's like having a general manager who is also coaching the team and has just put together a dynasty

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 understands it in a way that is beyond anything you could ever comprehend. And so when you're going into it, you're like, okay.
It's clear who's in charge here.

Speaker 3 All I have to do is think about like what it is that I have, like this little piece that I'm playing in it, and how do I best serve what he's trying to do on it?

Speaker 2 I don't think anybody has any idea, though, what you're talking about when you're describing the thicket of what it takes to make an excellent television show, to showrun,

Speaker 2 to be,

Speaker 2 when you're trying to articulate what is the genius of making Parks and Rec or The Office or any of these things.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't think people understand.

Speaker 2 They might like Mike Schur's work, but they don't understand the number of different qualities that someone like that has to have, including being a fundamentally decent human being.

Speaker 2 So, that all the people who work with him want to make sure that they're giving their maximum effort to not disappoint him because his standard is going to be as high as any of your standards.

Speaker 3 Yes. And so

Speaker 3 to give some sort of context, there's maybe four people who do it at the top, top level.

Speaker 3 And Mike is one of them. And so

Speaker 2 and his wife, by the way, it's not like JJ was a big crap.

Speaker 3 JJ was a writer on New Girl, and that's how we met and then became close with Mike later.

Speaker 3 And then our daughters were really close.

Speaker 2 You really muttered that one under your breath. You gave your

Speaker 2 bona fides, and then our daughters are really close too. You didn't put your heart in it.

Speaker 3 Well,

Speaker 3 that really was like

Speaker 2 you were bragging a little bit.

Speaker 3 Well, it's not that much.

Speaker 3 If I open up that, we'd then go for another 30 minutes.

Speaker 2 On really?

Speaker 2 No,

Speaker 2 no i don't want to hear any of that that's why i did it

Speaker 3 but so anyway so i show up on the first day and usually this has been my experience as i now understand it

Speaker 3 i show up i've done everything i can do um

Speaker 3 or i think that might benefit me when i'm actually in it and the first day is usually me getting punched in the face as hard as i can

Speaker 3 and so we were doing this mike had set up mike was directing the first first episode of the season, and it was my first day.

Speaker 3 And he had set up, I didn't realize how intricate he was going to be with the camera. And he was really trying to, he's really like, he did some beautiful stuff with this season

Speaker 3 to create suspense with the mystery. And, you know, Ted's now just like a full-on detective.

Speaker 3 And so he was doing this big, long shot where the camera's passing through, I want to say, maybe 10 different characters.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 he gets past like two or three people. It's like bends around Gary Cole and then passes me.
I have one line and then it bends around a corner.

Speaker 3 And this is always the worst case scenario because you're like, if you're the idiot who messes this up.

Speaker 2 The one line?

Speaker 3 The one line. It's like...

Speaker 2 In a conga line of 10, he's giving you an easy job.

Speaker 3 Yeah, it's, but you are such a small part of this, but if you screw it up, we have to do the whole thing again. And so the first take, we do it he's moving the camera's moving around

Speaker 3 it gets to me and i fully muff my line

Speaker 3 and i by the way if i could have

Speaker 3 if i could have bet in vegas if that was gonna happen i would a hundred percent put it against me and and so much so that and when it happened i started to laugh but it also

Speaker 3 You could have like it was like I mean I got the words out

Speaker 2 You could have used it you could have used it.

Speaker 3 So they do the whole thing. Cut.

Speaker 3 And finish the thing. Mike is giving notes to everybody.
He's like, you know, he's got, there's 10 people. He's like, one, two, three.
He passes me and he goes, first take, really?

Speaker 2 So that's the experience. The experience is you're going to take the beating the first day, get it over with.

Speaker 3 I've got to get a sense of what's going on. And within that,

Speaker 3 I know that I'm going to feel lost. And that's okay, as long as I don't get fired.
Right. And so

Speaker 3 we did.

Speaker 3 I started to pick up what was going on.

Speaker 3 Next thing you know, we're doing a scene. David Stretheran, who's so brilliant in the show this year, is doing a thing out in the audience.
And they're on his coverage first.

Speaker 3 And he's looking up at me, giving this like insane speech. I play the president of the university,

Speaker 3 who's wildly full of shit. And

Speaker 3 David, who plays this like fluffy, as he would describe it, fluffy professor,

Speaker 3 is looking at me and keeps going, oh, I just, this man is the worst. And I go, oh, I now know exactly what I need to be.
I need to be the worst version of what that guy thinks.

Speaker 3 And by the way, David Stretheran's a much better actor.

Speaker 2 So, but now you've got

Speaker 2 motivation. You've got your thing.
You know exactly who you are. I know what we're doing now.

Speaker 3 And from that point forward, we just ran.

Speaker 2 It's a playground after that, right? Like, you can just play to all your worst,

Speaker 2 all of the best parts of acting that allow you to turn up the volume on all those bad parts that are funny.

Speaker 3 Yeah, and Mike is so brilliant

Speaker 3 and so wonderful and, as you say, a wonderful human being, but also very funny

Speaker 3 and has a little bit of the child-like, you know,

Speaker 3 mischievous part of himself, too. But he doesn't show it often because he's got to be the adult in the room.

Speaker 3 And so what I would like to do, what I started to do on the the show is sort of needle him and go, Mike, what if we did this? And he would go, please don't.

Speaker 2 Just terrible ideas. You're just giving him bad ideas.
Telling him how to do his job.

Speaker 3 Well, no, because it's all within this thing that he's created. So it's not,

Speaker 3 it's not outside of what

Speaker 3 he's making. It's very much inside of it.
And he's just going,

Speaker 3 when he says, please don't do that, there's a little part of him that's saying,

Speaker 3 or just try it to see what it looks like because i'll laugh right like don't do it because i know i won't use it but if you do it i'm definitely gonna laugh right okay so you guys are playing some so you guys it became a full playground and there's stuff in the show that that i there's stuff this year that i

Speaker 3 may or may not have begged him to let me do which he then

Speaker 3 reluctantly allowed me to do.

Speaker 3 One of the things ended up in the show, and we had dinner the other night and he was like we got to like the ninth cut of the of this episode and he and Morgan who he produces second who he produces the show with they looked at each other and he goes how did he get this in

Speaker 2 is this the most fun you've had doing something like how does this compare in terms of the doing of things because some of these things can be merciless they can seem like they might be fun and then not be fun even with success uh sure there's been a lot of stuff that has been a drag.

Speaker 3 I'd say for the most part, I'd say 90% of the jobs I've been on have been so much fun.

Speaker 3 This was especially great because you have a prior relationship with someone who you love, who you know is such a wonderful person, and you all of a sudden find yourself in a working environment with them.

Speaker 3 And you're like, ooh, I hope this doesn't take away from our friendship, or if this goes bad,

Speaker 3 I hope this doesn't affect us in any way. And once we sort of discovered, oh, we like what each other, like he, I shouldn't say we like,

Speaker 3 as soon as we figured out the dynamic

Speaker 3 and

Speaker 3 Mike

Speaker 3 was into what I was doing and we had an agreement of like, oh, this is going to work throughout and it then becoming so much fun.

Speaker 3 It only I mean, I've never felt closer to him and it only enhanced our relationship. And

Speaker 3 that, to me, was the best part of the experience.

Speaker 2 That would have been moving if I hadn't been distracted by the sheer number of burps that you were stifling while you told that story. Was I?

Speaker 2 You're lacking in self-awareness. You were not aware.
They were not burps.

Speaker 3 Maybe they were just like saliva things.

Speaker 2 No,

Speaker 2 it was a recurring stifling of burps that was accompanying some really genuine,

Speaker 2 moving

Speaker 2 articulation of

Speaker 2 your love of Mike Shore and his talent. It's my tell.
A man on the inside is the name of the show. It is now streaming on Netflix.
It was delightful to talk to you.

Speaker 2 Thank you for spending the time with me.

Speaker 3 Really wonderful.

Speaker 3 I was so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 You didn't ask me any questions.

Speaker 3 I tried. You really sent us off on a path.

Speaker 2 See, I do that, though. It's the way that I avoid all intimacy.
I know, I'm right. It's such a good zone.
You were invited. It was such a a good zone

Speaker 2 before we started.

Speaker 2 If we were to air the what happened beforehand that betrays secrets that my father would never want told, yes,

Speaker 2 that would have been good content.

Speaker 2 Thank you, sir. Appreciate the time.

Speaker 3 Thank you. I really appreciate it, man.

Speaker 1 Hey, Chris. Hey, Jeremy.
I've got kind of an open secret, but I want to tell you what it is here because Mike's not here right now. You better whisper.

Speaker 2 I really like it when the hurricanes lose and it gives me a reason to celebrate. But when I'm watching college football, let's open a Miller Light and cheers.
Yeah, do you know? Exactly.

Speaker 2 That's what I'm saying. I was going to ask you, do you know how I do that?

Speaker 2 There's nothing quite like it.

Speaker 2 It's really a spectacular thing to have for your college football Sunday.

Speaker 3 It's so good.

Speaker 2 Game day, it's different with Miller Light in your hand. You don't have to whisper the light.

Speaker 2 I can't stop.

Speaker 1 From jaw-dropping touchdowns to fantasy heartbreaks, it's the beer that's been there for every moment.

Speaker 1 50 years of great taste, symbol ingredients, and that iconic golden color that you can spot from across the room. I see one right now.
I'm looking across the room.

Speaker 1 I like the way that you flirt with Miller Light. I mean, it looks, look at it.

Speaker 2 It looks great. It's looking at me.
You want to know why?

Speaker 1 I'm looking at it. It's looking at me.
It's probably because it's just 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces. It's the original light beer since 1975, which means it's that Bob Ryan age.

Speaker 1 Still hitting different five decades later. Miller Light, great great taste, 96 calories.
Go to MillerLight.com/slash beach to find delivery options near you.

Speaker 1 Or you can pick up some Miller Light pretty much anywhere they sell beer. It's Miller time.
Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

Speaker 1 96 calories and 3.2 carbs per 12 ounces.

Speaker 2 Miller Light, I want you in me.