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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people

build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality Number One best-selling author and host of the new hit, runaway hit on Ramsey Networks.

It's called Front Row Seat.

He's my co-host today.

Thanks for hanging out with us, America.

Jasmine is in Austin, Texas.

Hi, Jasmine.

How are you?

Better than I deserve that I could share you some advice.

I hear you.

We'll try.

How can we help?

I am halfway through baby step three, and the other characters in my question are my ex-husband, who's a good guy, but a bad financial role model, and our daughter, who we adopted through foster care, who's about to turn 18.

Since we adopted her through foster care, she receives a stipend, or will we receive a stipend for her care every month?

And we've just gotten approval based on some special needs for her for that stipend to be not only continued to the age of 21, but also increased fairly significantly.

And I am really excited to use that as a tool to empower her financially, help her

start out really strong.

Ken, it's exciting that you're on here.

I actually,

I convinced her to read Paycheck to Purpose with me last year when she was looking for her first job.

She did it, but she decided she wanted to start with Paycheck and didn't really care about the purpose at that point.

That's not abnormal.

That's true.

Yeah.

But I have hopes.

I have hopes.

And so, yeah, I know that you talk a lot about financial education with kids, but it feels a little bit different.

And my co-parent has very reasonably pointed out that if you just give a teenager a bunch of money every month,

that's not helping them.

And

yeah, what's the best way to handle this?

Well, Ken, as it would be, happens to have

two of his three are adopted and in the same age group as well.

So

he's the man today.

Well, no, not true, but

I think that

with your child,

I would give them enough money to fail

and it not be spectacular.

In other words, not the whole stipend, but I would give them enough that you can do some teaching.

And one of the things I've learned, as with all kids, they all have different personalities.

The three Ramsey kids are all different how they handle money.

And that's true of my boys and, of course, my daughter.

And so with our oldest, you know, he's 18, same as yours.

And,

you know, letting him

make those mistakes and get to a place where he wants something or he wants to do something.

And, of course, we're monitoring his accounts and all that.

And the biggest moments for us have been, and this is tough for Stacey.

I'll be very candid.

Like, she wants to be more hands-on.

And I have a little bit more hands-off approach because when he's broke,

it's amazing, Dave, how my words tend to ring a little clearer.

And the humility increases with the bank account decreasing.

It does.

And I also don't have to say, I told you so.

I just have to say, here's the reality.

And I'm able to go, hey,

you're a spender.

And I'm able to talk through basic things.

So, you know, I would start with

give, save, spend.

You know, the little banks that we've been popular forever with Ramsey Solutions.

I think those three pieces of the pie are really great to teach.

And I would model it first,

pull back on a lot of the heavy teaching and look for instruction moments much like a coach would if I'm playing a sport and the coach sees me mess a playup, there's the best opportunity for a coach to step in and say, hey, the reason you dropped the ball is you took your eye off the ball and you turned upfield before you saw the ball come into your hands.

That's the approach that I would take because DNA is powerful.

And in this case, there's a lot of history because now we adopt it out of foster.

And so she is, is it a daughter?

Is that that right daughter yeah yeah so one of the things i would be very sensitive to not sensitive and i'm afraid to talk about it but sensitive to be become very aware of her past story and how whatever has has been her story up to this point when you adopted her how would those experiences affect the way she looks at money and i think that could be the greatest way to teach the ramsey principles the give save spend the live on a budget all that but within the context of what maybe she thinks about money.

And my guess is she has a scarcity mindset, and you going into it, understanding why she may react that way, it's going to give you more patience, more grace, and more mercy.

So

you said a special need.

What's the nature of the special need?

I'd rather not try to describe it, but college isn't on the table for her, but at least not right now.

But like, can you?

Is she going to be able to sustain a career and

create a sustainable life?

God damn, I hope so.

She's got a fighting chance.

Okay.

Based on the special need is what I'm asking.

Right.

Yeah.

If she doesn't, it won't be directly completely because of that.

Okay.

That's all I'm asking.

Okay.

I don't need to know anything else.

So, yeah, then

what, but it's amazing if you've got a kid that is a valedictorian.

I still would approach it with give

some, save some,

spend some wisely, earn money, and have a written plan to do all of those,

all three of those, and that's called a budget.

And those are very basic things.

You can teach a six-year-old a version of that.

You can teach a 16-year-old, a 26-year-old a version of that.

And the further she gets up the age range towards having 100% control of this money, whether you want her to or not, like at 21,

the more you're going to have to be discussing this with her like

the child of a friend of yours who came to you for advice.

You would not have any

authoritarian power.

Your only power would be persuasion.

On that note, would you be willing to unpack this idea of letting her fail?

Because that feels so scary.

Non-fatal failure.

Non-fatal failure.

We opened a checking account.

Rachel Cruz bounced three checks the first month.

Oh.

Yeah, that's not spectacular.

Here's another one.

You know, you go, hey, you pay for your gas.

Now that you're got a car and

you start paying for gas.

So he comes back from college and guess what?

He's broke because he didn't start a job right away.

That's a fail.

In other words, he's like, I can't drive.

So my friends are picking me up.

So he had to call his friends and go,

I'm literally unable to drive because I have no gas money.

This happened the first week this summer.

And that's a fail because he didn't plan for that and he spent too much money.

And and he didn't work at college last semester.

And I said, I think you need to.

Ken doesn't own a helicopter.

I do not own a helicopter anymore.

I didn't.

And so that's a fail in a fun way.

In other words, he was frustrated.

He's like, dad, I can't go.

And I go, well, when's your next paycheck?

And guess who is thriving now all of a sudden and realizing if I want to do something fun, that's not in the category of mom and dad.

I don't pay for fun.

Okay.

Right.

And so what I mean by let them fail is let them be broke.

Let them not be able to go to something.

And then he learns I should probably go get a job because mom and dad are no longer paying for it.

That's what I mean.

Yeah, or I did not set money and savings the way that I was coached to do.

Yeah.

And so then something happens.

I don't have the money to fix it or run it or buy it or whatever it is that can't go on that, you know, that trip or whatever it is they haven't got the money for because they didn't follow the plan you gave them to follow.

My favorite.

This falls in the category of.

Natural consequences.

Natural consequences.

Mark Twain said, you know, he talked about the 18-year-old who went away to college, complete convinced that his dad was a moron, came back four years later, astonished at how much his dad had learned.

Classic Mark Twain.

You know, tell him, but then let him do it.

See how it ends up.

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Allison is in Gainesville, Georgia.

Hi, Allison.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Thank you, sir.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

How can we help?

Yes, sir.

So thank you so much for picking up my phone call.

Currently, I'm in a bit of a bind.

My husband decided to leave our marriage on March 2nd.

And

he was our breadwinner.

And he has taken our money.

And it's just a really sad situation.

So right now, I'm in the middle of an unexpected divorce.

I'm having my family financially support me through this.

I am in nursing school.

I am 90% done with it.

I've picked up two full-time jobs, and I'm just trying to figure out how to navigate this divorce financially to allow myself some financial independence once I graduate and moving forward.

How long have you all been married, huh?

We will be married four years in August, but I've been with him since I was 16, and this was very, very much so, not like him.

Okay.

And

you said he took all of the money.

What does that mean?

He makes a little over $6,000 a month.

And that is half of that is disability check from the VA in regards to PTSD and some other things.

Was there any actual savings account or money that he moved?

Yes, there was $52,000 and I moved six of that and went to move the rest and he got the rest of it overnight and he has spent it since he's left.

Wow.

Do you not have an attorney?

I do have an attorney, but right now it's a really kind of drawn-out process.

So we have the temporary court and he already violated the temporary order, not paying his portion of things.

And I'm every time I save up at the nest egg, it gets depleted by paying the bills like the car insurance and stuff that I have to have to maintain my job and my schooling.

Hmm.

Yeah.

So it sounds like your attorney needs to dial up the heat.

Yes.

I really want because

your husband in the state of Georgia does not have rights to half of the money or to all of the money.

He only has rights to half of it.

Correct.

And so I want the rest of it coming to you now.

Right.

And I don't believe you.

And I don't believe he spent the other.

I don't believe he spent the other money.

I think that's a lie.

Well, I will tell you that I have seen some extra spending, and I can tell you that out of about 30 of that, 15 has been spent on extracurricular activities, clothes, guns, weapons that he should not be having.

Listen, I want the guns then so I can sell them.

Yeah.

Because he spent my money on them.

So your lawyer needs to be busting some chops, ketto.

Okay, that's thing one.

Then, because

you're not, he doesn't have, he doesn't have the power to do all this stuff unless you all stand by and watch him do it and do nothing about it.

So, you get what you tolerate in that part of it.

Now, as far as putting him and this mess in the rearview mirror, you're working two jobs, you're going to nursing school.

Congratulations, great choices.

That sounds like a really good way.

Your family's helping you right now until you can get on your feet and get the other side of this

tragedy,

this mess.

But if you just stay on the track that you're on in one year, you're going to be in a really much better place than you are today, agreed?

Yes, and I agree.

And

that's where I'm trying to stay focused on.

But the frustration lies in that I'm putting money into the savings account for me that he has already agreed not to touch and move moving forward.

But I'm not sure if you're not.

No, don't put any money in the savings account.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not have separate accounts.

Do not put any money on anything that he gets access to ever.

Yes, no, no, I moved.

I moved everything.

So he doesn't have access to this new bank.

Yeah, absolutely.

And you just take care of you and moving forward, and then you go get your half of what he's screwed off with.

But

I mean, you may have a great gun collection for a little while until you get it sold.

That's okay.

I literally would back the pickup up over there with a court order and clean out his gun safe.

I know how to hurt a redneck.

I'm just saying.

Sure.

Oh, sometimes you say things that I really, really find entertaining.

And that was a great one.

I really know how to hurt a redneck, Dave Ramsey.

Allison, what are you?

What do you do with the truck?

What is your income right now with these two jobs?

I make about $2,200, $2,500 a month.

One job is stable.

The other job is home health care.

So I just pick up the emergency shifts that are needed for people.

And so it's good to have the solid one and then the other one just to, you know.

How long before you finish nursing school?

I have till May of next year, and then I'll graduate.

And I've already spoken to a lender to kind of give me an idea of what I'll need with the newer-paying job with the degree to get the house in my name, but that's you know, far away.

You know what?

I'm not really worried about that house.

I'm fine if you just sell that house.

I'm in the same boat.

I have nowhere else to go.

Yeah, sure, you do.

There's lots of houses in Georgia.

You can rent, you can, you got apartments.

Yeah, there's lots of things.

You don't need that house.

Well, I have come to figure out that I can quick, I think it's called quit claim deed the house.

So the house is $1,300 right now.

No, you can't, hon.

Okay.

You really may need a new lawyer.

Your lawyer may be an idiot.

If you quit claim deed the house to him,

you are still on the mortgage.

Sure.

With an idiot.

No, absolutely we're not doing that.

Absolutely we're not doing that.

Do not refinance it in my name once I graduate.

Don't keep the house.

Force the sale of the house

and put the money in your pocket to start your new life with.

Go rent you a one bedroom and go be a nurse and work 80 hours a week and make $150,000 to $200,000 a year your first year from May on.

And now let's start talking about buying a house.

But I promise you, you would not buy that house.

Three years from today, and you're sitting on $50,000 or $60,000 as a down payment and you're debt-free because you're following Ramsey's stuff and you're

looking out the

windshield and occasionally glancing up in the rearview mirror, laughing that that guy's gone.

And when that is you three years from today, you are not living in that house.

You wouldn't go pick that house.

Three years from today, Allison would not buy that house.

That's hanging on to something that you don't need to hang on to.

I'd let that thing go, but don't let him keep it either.

Force the sale of it and put the equity in your pocket.

Oh, and by the way, that's a way you could recoup the part of the 50 grand in the savings account that he stole.

You can get that back out of the equity.

His party.

In regards to the equity,

we bought it in May of last year.

We refinanced it in February, and it gave us an extra $300 a month to put back into our pockets now that we both weren't working full-time.

So we agreed to do that.

So obviously, there's no equity in the home.

Oh, okay.

Well, so much for the equity.

One more reason you don't want it.

Yeah.

Right.

Sell it to get rid of the problem.

That's right.

I just don't want to incur any more debt because we're going to be under.

If I sell it.

Maybe.

We're not going to be under.

Maybe.

Yeah.

Maybe.

So far, you've only collected your information from him and Zillow.

You need like a real

real estate agent and a court order.

demanding that you all sell this house.

And I think you're going to get enough out of it to break even or more.

I thought you had a bunch of equity.

I'm sorry.

But earlier in the discussion.

But anyway, yeah.

But now that you don't have any equity, it's a super big deal.

Don't keep it.

You don't want a house up to your eyeballs and a brand new nurse just finishing up.

And by the way, how are you going to pay the payments from now until then?

No, thank you.

Let's get rid of this thing.

Well,

the agreement was, so, with the court order, is that he was going back to paying the full amount of mortgage.

And so I agreed to some other things.

That's a temporary thing.

That's not the divorce settlement.

I just, I know there's other houses, but my thing is, is I have

I have to wait until I get that degree in order to be able to

get an apartment.

Apartments around here require temperature.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Absolutely a lie.

Nope.

Nope.

Somebody else told me,

where are you gathering your information?

You're not actually...

Listen, we sat down.

We have the Ramsey personalities sit down and call apartment complexes.

They call 40 of them.

Three said you needed to prove with a credit score your ability to rent.

The rest of them said, if you put up a deposit and come over here and sign a lease and you show us that you're working and making $2,500 a month and you can show that, then they're going to let you move into an apartment.

You are way running.

Listen, don't make decisions based on fear.

Part of what this has done is it's made you afraid and you're you're you're splashing around some of the things you're doing are very good and other things you're doing is out of desperation and fear.

Do not keep a house you can't afford because you think you can't rent an apartment.

That's a lie.

Sell that house and make him sell it.

Don't let him keep it.

You don't want to stay on that mortgage and this guy can't refinance because he's not smart enough.

Okay, Rachel, the internet officially knows too much about all of us.

So much, George.

I mean, our names, our addresses, even our relatives' names.

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Don't like that.

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Thank you for joining us, America.

If you like what you're hearing, we would appreciate some help.

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Buying or selling a home is a big deal right now with all the clickbait headlines and conflicting data out there.

It's hard to know what is actually happening in the housing market.

So instead of believing what you're seeing on the internet, why don't you actually look at the facts?

Here's an idea.

Go to ramseysolutions.com slash market, and we've got all the information there.

For instance, at this moment, there's 1,036

or 1,036,101 homes on the market in America.

That's the actual number.

It's the most homes on the market since 2019.

So, and we've got more buyers activated in the market right now than we've seen.

And so we're not seeing prices go down.

For the third month in the row, we've seen the median house prices go up in America.

Current median house price is $441,000.

Now, they've not gone up a lot in the last three months, but they're going up every month.

Interest rates are sitting.

steady right below 6%.

Just they're like they're frozen there.

And 15-year fixed rates, 5.95 right now.

And so, and it has been for like a month and a half, two months.

So, this market is a very predictable environment to put something on the market and sell it.

That's the kind of stuff this data tells you.

And you get with a good real estate agent that actually knows their stuff that's high-octane, high-protein, and gets it done.

Ramseysolutions.com/slash market or click the link in the show notes.

Dawn is in Louisville, Kentucky.

Hi, Dawn.

How are you?

I'm good.

I am currently in the early stages of baby sect two.

And

I know, in order for me to pay off my debt, that I'm going to need to get a good side hustle.

And I want to turn it into something more than a side hustle.

I recently became a commission notary public, and I'm wanting to add to the services that I offer and become a loan signing agent.

You want to become a woman?

A loan signing agent.

A loan signing agent.

Yes, sir.

You are on the internet.

There's no such thing.

Yeah, yes, it is.

They help real estate agents close

with their closings.

No, they don't.

Real estate agents don't use that.

You read that on the internet.

Somebody's trying to sell you a course, aren't they?

National Notary Association.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's no big money in notarizing stuff either.

It's like 15 bucks a squeeze.

It's not a big deal.

And so, no, there are closing agents, and they work for title companies.

and or law firms that close real estate transactions.

Real estate agents use those closing agents to run the payoffs down and to get the paperwork lined up, get the title searches done, and they don't work for real estate agents.

They work for a title company and or a law firm that has a title company.

And that's who closes real estate loans and transactions.

Real estate agents don't have loan closing agents.

There's no such thing.

Loan signing agents.

Is that what you called it?

Yeah.

Yes.

Or loan signing agent.

Yeah, they're trying to sell you.

How much is the course course they're trying to sell you?

How much it costs?

About $300.

Yeah, that's about $300 I just saved you.

You don't believe me.

Listen, here's what you need to do.

You need to get off the phone and you need to call six real estate agents whose signs you see all over the place and ask them if they use a loan signing agent or a closing agent.

They do not.

Every one of them are going to tell you this thing doesn't exist.

I've had my real estate license since 1978.

I own hundreds of millions of dollars in real estate.

I have never even heard of what the flip you're talking about.

Okay.

And so it just doesn't exist, huh?

Hon.

This is just one of those internet things where they're trying to get money out of you to get you to go get a class to do some side hustle that doesn't really exist.

And it's,

you know, we used to see that stuff in the back of comic books.

But no.

Did you just type it in over there while I heard you typing?

I did.

I did.

What's it come up?

AI says it's a thing.

A loan signing agent is a notary, also known as a notary signing agent, specialized notary public, who facilitates the final stages of a loan process.

Yep, that's a notary public saying that, but they don't do it.

Right.

There's no actual thing out there.

Yeah, that came, that AI picked that up on Google straight off those stinking people's websites.

What happened?

And that's right.

Well, there's multiple links here that are all selling a course.

Essentially, yeah.

Yeah.

But I defy you to find a real estate agent that has one on staff.

I promise you.

Yeah, I was trying to think what we did when we went to an actual law firm.

Yeah.

Is where we went on our last house.

In Tennessee, in Tennessee, a lot of the title companies are run by law firms.

But in other places, sometimes just the title company does it.

Right.

And so, or sometimes in a small town, just a title company does it.

It's not unusual for a law firm to be involved as the escrow agent or whatever.

But believe me, they have a notary on staff.

A notary is squeeze.

That's it.

That's what you do.

It's not a thing.

It's just put their little emblem on there and witness the signatures.

It's, you know, it's not a thing.

So

I've been a notary most of my life.

I finally dropped it because I just didn't have any need for it.

Anyway, we got six in the building here.

But,

yeah.

I think it'd be funny for me to bring my documents to you, have you notarized them.

That'd be kind of funny.

Well, that has happened in years past at Ramsey.

Really?

Not anymore.

I saw my selling a car.

They want the the car title notarized.

I got the notary and my thing, I sign it.

That's fun, watch them sign it.

No charge for Dave.

I do think there's, to your point, there's just, if I'm you, uh, Don, I'm going to go get a better paying side hustle.

Yes, that's the play.

And your mind is in the right space.

I just think there's a better bang for your time on that.

Yeah, quit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You can go do something that's like

real.

You know, like,

you know, here's the thing.

You can make about 50 bucks an hour right now cleaning houses.

And that's a whole lot more than you can make

doing this.

You make 40 bucks an hour, depending on which neighborhood you're in in Louisville, Kentucky, right?

Okay.

If you've got a, if you're a teacher, you can make $50 to $75 an hour tutoring after school.

You don't want to go be a notary.

You want to be a tutor.

Go do something like that.

That's pretty, you know,

I would rather you have told me that you bought a set of clippers on Amazon and now you cut dog's hair.

Because that's a real thing and you actually would make money doing that.

Yeah.

By the way, you're right.

You're talking about an average of $20 an hour for a notary, an average.

Yeah, but you don't even get an hour.

I know.

That's my point.

It takes about 45 seconds.

Yeah, and you can make way more money doing something else.

Yeah, you don't get an hour out of that.

I mean, if you notarize an hour's worth of papers, you're going to have a callus.

I mean, it's just not.

There's no such thing.

I mean,

that's a phone book.

No, that doesn't work that way.

So, guys,

since I've been on the air, there have been

scam artists of various kinds selling careers that don't exist

and

or that have very minimal.

The number of people that have become medical transcriptionists

is like probably a hundred or a thousand-fold the actual need.

Because they read somewhere that if you become a medical transcriptionist that you make, no, no,

no,

there's just not that big a need.

There's a need, but if there's a big enough need, a doctor just hires one to work in his office.

I mean, it's just not a there's not like this massive union out there of medical transcriptionists who just run around.

It just doesn't, you know, but boy, a lot of people spend a lot of money doing that.

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Joe is with us in Columbus, Ohio.

Hi, Joe.

How are you?

Good, good.

How can we help?

Yeah, so when I got out of college a couple years ago, I bought a business on land contracts,

and I'm now in a position to pay it off.

My accountant told me not to, but I know sometimes you say not to follow accountant's advice, so I was just wondering what I should do.

Okay, you understand that a land contract, you don't own anything yet.

Yeah, gotcha.

So your accountant is suggesting that you don't stay in an ownership position.

You're in a very unstable and vulnerable position, and your accountant suggested you stay there.

Because the property, the business is not titled to you.

Right, yeah, until I pay it off.

I know.

I know how a land contract works.

Yeah.

That's what I'm telling you.

And so your accountant is a fool.

You need to fire him.

Okay, okay.

Do you have the money to pay this off?

Yeah, about $5.50 in the account, and the balance is $4.50 on the loan.

What are you doing?

What's your business?

I've got a store.

Selling what?

Jewelry, things like that, watches.

Man, you're killing it.

Way to go.

How old are you?

24.

So you rolled into a gold mine, no pun intended.

I did.

I feel very blessed for what God has given me.

Yeah, and you're obviously working your butt off.

Congratulations.

So how long ago did you do this deal?

About two years.

And in two years, you put 550K in the bank?

Yeah, we profited about $480 last year, and we're on track to profit about $500 this year.

Dude, you are an absolute stud.

I was not really lucky.

It wasn't lucky.

You've been, hey, luck comes dressed in work clothes, man.

Yeah.

You've been getting it, and you've learned the business, and you're managing the business well.

I'm dead serious.

If I woke up in your shoes, I'd fire my accountant.

He gave you bad legal advice and bad tax advice.

Let me walk you through both, okay?

One is the guy that owns the store right now is not you.

You are contracted to own the store and this store is printing money.

If he decides to go sideways and not give you this, you're going to have to sue him for title because you don't have the title to this business yet.

So it's very important from a legal vulnerability position that you get this store into your name before this guy looks up and realizes you're bailing money over there.

Yeah.

Okay.

Or worse than that, he

has two glasses of wine at dinner and hits somebody head-on and they sue him for $2 million and one of his assets goes to the family that was hit head-on and one of the assets is your store because it's not your store.

It's his store.

Oh, that's true.

Yeah, yeah, you're vulnerable big time.

So, your accountant is a fool.

The second thing is, your accountant is telling you to keep this loan that's not really a loan because you can write off the interest, correct?

Well, he said because at the end of the year, my tax bill will be due.

He said, I don't want to drain the accounts too much because I'm going to owe like $150 to $200 in taxes.

You're going to have plenty of money, aren't you?

This is July.

True, yeah, I got five more months to make some money.

You'll be okay.

And you've got $550, you only need $480 plus $150.

Right.

You'll be there.

Okay.

And he's not, so he wasn't telling you to keep it because the interest is a write-off.

No, no.

He's just afraid you won't have the money to pay your taxes.

By the way, you've got until April to pay your taxes, not the end of the year.

Oh, that's right.

Yeah, they're due April 15th or something?

Exactly.

So,

yeah, I'm really scared

when someone that I'm counting on to give me good advice gives me bad advice, that means I need someone else to give me good advice.

I believe in getting good advice and the multitude of counsel, their safety, the Bible says.

But, yeah.

Oh, wow.

I don't think you were clear enough on that.

You think I held back?

Yeah.

I'd like to give Joe a little bit more than that.

It's not my day to hold back.

No, I think it's going to get get signed up for that this morning.

Today.

Joe, like, pay it off today.

Yeah, like you're going to sleep

of business.

Now, I would go over there with a cashier's check and make sure he signs the paperwork into your name

before I put my head on the pillow tonight.

Yeah.

Run by the bank, get you a cashier's check right now.

Go pay the man.

That's going to feel good.

Oh, man.

Well, I feel good just talking to Joe.

He's just in here.

You're 24 years old.

He's making $480 last year.

Yeah.

Ding, ding, ding.

Selling some jewelry.

It was very ho-humming.

But in America today, there's systemic problems, and the corporations have all the money, and the little man can't.

Oh, shut up.

Look at Joe.

Let me just tell you, Joe's getting her done, man.

I like it.

Anthony, Anthony's in Boston.

Hey, Anthony, how are you?

Hey, Dave.

I'm great.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

How can I help?

Great.

Thanks for taking my call.

It's really looking for some career advice here.

So I'm 26 years old, living in Boston, currently work in corporate America, but my real passion is in firefighting, which I've been doing part-time since 2018.

And recently, I got the opportunity to get hired by a full-time department where I grew up.

The issue is, is my parents who have always kind of turned for financial and career advice don't

support this decision.

And they say I'm leaving potential on the table because I could be using my degrees making four times as much in corporate America.

So, I'm wondering if you think I should follow my passion and, you know, have a lower wage throughout my career.

Four times?

Yeah.

What do you make now?

So right now I'm only making $85.

But what's your degree?

I have my NBA.

Yeah, but what's your path?

If you play this out, mom and dad, does mom and dad's prediction match up to the actual path that you have corporately?

I'd say so, yeah.

At the company, I'm at right now.

And you would make how much in how much a quarter million dollars a year

just about yeah yeah

that's what my managers make and so and how long did it take to get there

about 10 to 12 years where I'm at right now forget it plus or minus BS what are you gonna make as a firefighter I just looked up on the internet but I want to know what you know what what's the average

So I actually have insight of the union contract where I'll be getting hired and my base salary will be around 80,

but it will only increase about 2% to 3% every year.

So that's where they see it being an issue if I want to have a family in the expensive market that Boston is.

The firefighters that I know typically work 410s or 312s.

Correct.

Yeah, this would be one on, one off, one on, five days off.

So that's another thing.

So use your MBA

and do what all the other firefighters I know do and start a side business.

Yeah, but what about overtime?

That 84 or 80 base, what's your overtime possibilities?

So right now it's a lot.

Yeah, it could be an extra 15 to 30 grand a year on average.

Yeah, I'm seeing multiple sources that have a range of 84 to 134, and these are legitimate like job sites.

I mean, so this isn't like, you know, so you got an opportunity.

Here's the point that I would make.

You can do very well

through what Dave said, side hustles on that downtime or overtime.

And if you invest wisely, you're only 26.

Do you have any debt at all?

No debt and a pretty good nest.

Then I'm going to tell you this right now.

You will resent your mother and father if you do what they wish for you.

Now, I think their heart is in the right place.

They want the best for you.

But in this case, this is an open and closed case for me that you should pursue being a fireman and pursue the life that you want to live because you're going to be a very unhappy,

regretful, and resentful person if you play this out as mom and dad want you to.

And for that reason,

I would say, no, don't do what mom and dad tell you there.

And I'll reiterate and say there was something you were scratching when you went and got the MBA other than just following their wishes.

And so you probably have pretty serious business acumen.

And there's no reason you can't start a side hustle that probably doubles your income.

Again, I know a lot of firefighters we've worked with over the years, and it's not unusual for one of them to have a business that makes as much as they make being a fireman.

Because of the way your schedule works, you've just got tons of time

to work on stuff.

So I really would pursue that.

But I just say, love you, mom and dad, and I just think I'm going to go this way.

And the good news about being 28 is they have an opinion, but they don't get a vote.

I get it.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the runaway hit, Front Row Seat, on the Ramsey Networks.

He's my co-host today.

I got to tell you, Ken, one of my favorite episodes and one of my favorite people, become a good friend recently, just dropped, I guess today.

Yes, this morning.

On front row seat.

He's moved to our area here, and he and I have become friends during the time he's been here.

A guy named Jimmy John.

And yes, that's the sandwich.

And yes, he did sell that organization for billions with an S.

And yes, he has some really

great

stories.

You have to watch this episode of Front Row Seat.

You will be blown away.

You will learn something.

You will laugh.

And I dare say you will probably cry.

You will cry.

And I will tell you, if you have a kid, a teenager, a college student who's thinking entrepreneurial, working for themselves, if you yourself have have got a side hustle trying to get out of debt, watch this episode.

It'll put fire under you because this guy started off with absolutely nothing and sheer hustle and all kinds of obstacles.

And it's a great American success story.

That's exactly right.

And he's a good guy.

Oh, he's a joy to listen to.

Yeah, it's just fun.

He's a fun storyteller.

So

you're going to love this episode.

Front row seat, and you can find it on podcast and YouTube both.

And this episode, I think that episode dropped today.

And we taped one yesterday with

me and John Maxwell and Pat Lincione.

And those two guys are like walking encyclopedias on leadership.

And so

me and Ken got to watch them.

I mean, it was like gold.

It was gold.

So I was there for the comedy relief, and they were there for the talent.

But, man, it was incredible.

Dave dropped some dimes.

They all did.

It's going to be special.

It's going to be special.

That one, after you finish with the edit,

will be great.

I don't know.

We're kicking the idea around of releasing it in two parts.

Here's the first hour.

Here's the second hour because there were no edits necessary.

They were just,

there's some stuff.

All right.

Jennifer is in Boston.

Hey, Jennifer, how are you?

I am fantastic.

How are you guys?

Better than I deserve.

How can we help?

Awesome.

Well, I have a question about how to move forward after financial infidelity.

I found out in the fall about $100,000 of debt that I didn't know about,

and we have paid it off.

We're in baby step three.

We're about halfway through baby step three right now with about $25,000.

We've used to purchase.

It was credit cards that I didn't know about and also tax debt.

What was the credit card?

What was purchased on the credit cards?

My husband was laid off and was using a credit card for a time span that I did not know about.

Okay, so he was handling 100% of the household money.

Correct.

And the way he covered the lack of income was he borrowed for the family on credit cards.

Exactly.

And you didn't know about it because you're not involved in the handling of the money.

I was not at that time.

Since I found out about that, we have combined finances.

I insisted upon that.

I insisted on counseling.

I insisted on a budget, and we use the Every Dollar Budgeting app.

But he hates the budget.

He says sharing accounts and the budget are the worst decision he's ever made.

He doesn't track expenses.

He undermines the budget by going on solo trips and spending when and where he wants.

Every question about the budget turns into a huge argument.

The threats of leaving

and the perception of others is incredibly important.

So even having a budget is embarrassing to him.

And I don't know if we can get past this.

I don't know how to get on the same page.

I don't know how.

I don't know what to do.

How is your therapy done?

I'm sorry

um

it hasn't gone well he hates going to therapy because when he goes to therapy he feels like a failure

because he's failing yeah

causes you to feel like a failure yeah

when you're failing at your marriage and because you do whatever the flip you want to do regardless of the implications of it then that wouldn't be embarrassing in therapy yeah that makes sense that's logical

it's kind of like it's kind of like eating 17 donuts and then going and seeing your trainer you know i mean it's like yeah it doesn't go well you know it's like, yeah.

Okay.

Man.

Well, I, you know,

this is not a financial problem, huh?

It's a marriage problem.

It's manifesting itself.

It's manifesting itself in the finances.

But it's a I want to do what I want to do thing, and I don't want to be aligned with and be in agreement with anyone else.

I don't want anyone else speaking into any of my decisions.

I don't really want to be married, is what he's actually saying, I'm afraid.

I hope not.

I hope I'm wrong, but that's kind of what the, you know, Deloney taught me a saying when I'm hanging out with him, his PhD in counseling.

He says, behavior is a language.

I say that all the time.

And that's what this is.

It's what I'm seeing.

It's regardless of what you're saying, it's what you do.

And what he's doing is screaming,

you know, I don't really want to build a life together.

I want to be able to do whatever I want to do when I want to do it, like a four-year-old on the cereal aisle throwing a fit because they want fruit loops.

And

that it's very immature, what you're describing.

Because you can be mature and say, hey, part of putting the budget together is I want to have

money to do X.

And that's a fair argument.

But

instead, just going, oh, well, I don't really like this.

It's the worst decision I've ever made because it's actually somebody holding me accountable now for my ridiculous behaviors.

So, golly, that's so sad.

I'm so sorry.

Well,

I think the answer is in your pastor's office and in your marriage counselor's office that if the two of you can solve for building a future together rather than trying to be roommates.

Hey, Jennifer, do you know enough about his past to know if he comes from an entitlement?

Very much so.

I had a sense of that.

I am no therapist.

Don't want to try to be one, but I'm just, I got a hunch.

I would talk to the therapist about this, get some real professional insight, a pastor as well.

But I think it's, do you want it?

If this marriage could be fixed, would you do whatever it takes?

Absolutely.

Okay.

I wouldn't have stayed.

That's what I thought.

I mean, he's been lying since the beginning of our marriage.

I had had a hunch that.

How long have you been married?

Six years.

Okay.

Let me finish this thought, Jennifer, first.

I just wanted to get to you.

Yeah, no, I had a hunch, and I don't know why I had that hunch, but I had a hunch that he came from entitlement.

And I think if it were me

with guidance,

I would draw a line in the sand and put him in a situation where he realizes he's got to decide.

I think he's threatened you before to leave, and I think that's a spoiled brat play.

It feels very entitled, and I don't know that he doesn't need his bluff called and I think it's that serious.

But I get some other insight on that.

I'm not talking about a threat, but I mean a real boundary, a line in the sand.

If you don't change, this is done.

I don't think he's ever had any consequences in his life.

I'd talk to somebody about that.

That's just a human.

His mommy's a helicopter, right?

Just

they're perfect.

He's perfect.

Yeah.

That's

right.

The latest argument, the latest argument from this weekend was because I just realized that after weeks, after months, he still hasn't switched his direct deposit over so that it's going into our joint account.

Wow.

I would have realized that the first week, I think.

Yeah.

You guys, you need to, it's the marriage counseling office that this gets safe, kid.

It's not here.

I'm sorry.

Sorry you're facing this.

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Sarah is in Chicago.

Hi, Sarah.

How are you?

Hi, how are you guys?

Thank you for uh taking my phone call.

Sure.

How can we help?

A few questions.

Mainly, me and my husband were blessed about three weeks ago when he just went into the local gas station and just grabbed a random scratch off lottery ticket.

End up being a $1 million scratch off ticket.

You got it.

What are you kidding me?

Are you for real?

Yes, yes.

We're so in shock.

Oh, my God.

Tell me really really quick,

how did he tell you?

What was that like?

Oh,

confused.

I was completely confused.

He, I don't know, he panicked.

He couldn't even make a sentence.

He panicked.

Exactly.

He ran home, which was only just a couple blocks away.

And I forgot the car.

Yeah, where was the car?

That's crazy.

Well, he drove home.

He drove home.

I'm kidding.

He probably should have known because he was so, so

far.

Wow.

Okay.

So have you been, you've been in contact with the state, I assume?

Yes.

We

just claimed it about a week ago.

We tried to do our research.

We are way in over ahead.

Yeah.

It ends up being

we both agree to take the lump

sum,

which ends up being $600,000.

Right.

Which we are still happy and feel very blessed to have that.

That's more than you had the week before.

Now you have a different appreciation for taxes, don't you?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Now, that's the lump sum because the million was a payout over a number of years, but that's not net of taxes, correct?

No, after we finally receive it, which should probably be another month or so,

and after taxes, it ends up being a little bit over $400,000.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, and who told you that?

Who told you that?

Oh, when we went to go claim it, they broke it all down for us.

I mean, that's kind of

my research.

Yeah.

Okay, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Okay, stop.

First thing we're going to do is get a tax professional

to find out what's real and what's not there.

And the state of Illinois has a tax, and of course, the federal government has a tax in the United States.

But you need a tax professional that can sit down and mark it all through.

We don't research numbers this big.

We don't research information on the internet.

Everything on the internet's true.

Abraham Lincoln said that, right?

So

not.

So you get bad information there, and you get bad information when you use bureaucrats at the state who hand out lottery proceeds.

They're not tax professionals.

So it's going to be worth a $1,000 or whatever it is, $500 to get some professional tax advice.

That's the first thing you do.

And you can get one just going to ramseysolutions.com, find an ELP and endorsed local provider that does taxes, that is Ramsey trusted, that we have vetted, and we know what they're doing.

And they need to go, and you need to feel very calm and peaceful when you leave their office after having learned about what the actual taxes are.

And they can show you in just a few minutes to the penny.

Okay.

I think the numbers you got were...

Yeah, I think the numbers you got might have been aggressive.

I don't think your taxes are going to be quite that bad, but they are going to be bad.

Okay.

Yeah.

So,

you're going to learn about that.

Then you figure out what you've got left after taxes.

And then what are you going to do?

Two things that we planned on is we want to pay off the house.

And we do have credit card debt.

Okay.

How much are those two things?

The house is right underneath $100,000.

And then our credit card debt would be about 23,000.

Okay.

I like those plans.

Those are good plans.

Okay.

And what are you, what do you drive?

I drive a Kia.

My husband and I both have cars that are completely paid off.

I know.

What are they?

How old are they?

How worn out are they?

Mine's still in great condition, I think.

It's a 2015.

So you don't need to upgrade yours.

What about his?

I think he probably wants to upgrade his because it's starting to give him a little bit of car problems.

We've been having to fix it up a little bit.

What is it?

It's a 2017 Chevy.

So,

this is a little bit newer, but like I said, his is giving us a little issue lately.

Okay, so you put a budget on that and you don't break that budget.

What's your household income?

Good question.

I believe he makes about $50,000 a year.

I probably make a little under that, $40,000 or $45,000 a year.

All right.

So

the people that have regrets and that people tell ugly stories about after they win the lotto are those that are not intentional.

You have to be very careful and very intentional.

So kind of what we're doing right now is what I would recommend, and that is we begin to lay out before the money gets here, after meeting with the tax person, first thing we do is pay taxes, second thing we do is this, third thing we do is that, and so on.

And you basically have a budget, you know, say we've got $500,000 or whatever the number is, and we spend that.

So we've spent $123,000.

We put another $20,000 on car.

So we spent $143,000.

What are we going to do with this?

We're going to give some.

We're going to invest some.

We're going to invest a lot.

And we're going to go on with our lives by being on a budget and not tap into this money.

And I don't care if you want to go on a trip and celebrate.

I don't care if you want to upgrade your couch.

All of those things are fine.

Those aren't the things that get lottery winners in trouble.

The things that get lottery winners in trouble is when they get a half a million and they go spend five million.

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of.

I want to be very careful.

And like I said, I'm overwhelmed.

I didn't know where to start.

The way you eat an elephant is a bite at a time.

So we're going to write the number at the top of the page that we're getting after, and then minus taxes, and then minus house, exactly, minus credit cards, and cut them up so they don't grow back.

Yes.

And don't walk around acting like you're rich because you're going to figure out pretty quick, you ain't rich.

This is sweet, and it's very nice, and I'm happy for you.

But you didn't get $5 million.

You got $500,000.

And it'll be gone in about an eye blink

if you're not really, really careful.

So I kind of want you to be in a, not terrified and not paralyzed with fear, but I want you to have a healthy fear, a healthy respect of someone just handed you a loaded gun and you don't know anything about guns.

Be very careful to learn.

I have that fear already.

Okay.

That is why I call it guys.

I'm just scared.

It's going to be gone before we know it.

No, no, no, no, no.

No,

it won't be if you do what I'm talking about.

If you write down where every one of these dollars, give them every a name before they come, we're going to put $150,000 in savings.

We're going to spend $50,000 renovating this.

We're going to go on a cruise for $10,000.

I don't care what it is, as long as when you total it all up, it equals the amount you're going to get.

And just make a list down the page until every dollar is going into something.

Generosity, investing, fun,

upgrade car, payoff credit cards, trip, couch.

I'm making these things up.

I don't know what they are, okay?

But write them down, and then both of you look at that, and you've got a little time to get ready emotionally before.

And so when the check comes, it's boring.

Yeah.

Because you just execute your little list.

Right.

And there's no emotion.

There's no four-year-old dancing around the kitchen.

We've already had that moment.

That was pretty cool.

I'm okay with that.

But don't dance around the kitchen after you get the check and change your plan.

Develop a plan, and then it's boring.

You just execute the plan.

Got it.

Okay.

Now, the second person I'm going to send you to is you need to sit down with a Smart Vestor Pro, someone to help you learn about investing and decide where you're going to invest some of this.

Yeah.

Okay.

I would really appreciate that because we really don't have much of a

heart of a teacher.

And they can show you, okay, you could put this much into a Roth.

You could put this much into this.

And you can start your mutual funds over here and so on.

How old are you guys?

40.

I'm 40 and my husband's 39.

If you invest $300,000

in seven years it'll be $600,000.

In seven more years it'll be a million two and in seven more years it'll be 2.4.

God, that looks a nice tree.

Yeah, but you got to keep your stinking hands off of it and you got to invest it.

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So, when it comes to cultural phenomenon like things that are popular on television and things like that, you know, there's a whole curve you can look at on anything out there.

There's early adopters, the people that are the first to the party.

There's the early majority, the late majority.

The last to the party on these things is called the laggards.

And when it comes to cultural icon things like what's popular on television, since I don't watch television much, I'm definitely a laggard.

I was several years behind before I lost my man card watching Downton Abbey.

All my friends had already lost their man card watching Downton Abbey.

It was already a thing of the past by the time I got there.

But I watched them all.

I watched them all.

I was just a Laggard.

I just got there very, very late.

And so I distinctly remember

around the year 2000 when MTV was failing and they started, no one was watching music videos anymore.

So they started putting on some teenagers.

on a thing they called a reality show, just following teenagers around being teenagers.

And the second show I think they ever put out, everybody started talking about it.

And I was the last of the party.

And I was a laggard.

And I turned it on.

And

this

hardcore rock star is

just debilitated by his former drug use, Ozzy Osborne.

And he's screaming through the house at his wife, Sharon!

Sharon!

And that's the only thing I remember about the first reality TV shows.

And Ozzy just, we just heard he just passed away.

Yeah.

So, God rest him.

76.

76 years old.

Did you take that and start doing that to Sharon in your house with the accent?

No, no, yeah, definitely, definitely.

Never used the intercom system.

No.

No, I never, no, I was afraid to because I would afraid the reaction I would get.

Yeah, I was going to say, I know her, and I don't think that would be a good idea.

That would just not go well.

It's a different, and you know, the English hillbilly accent together just doesn't work.

It's not bad, actually, though.

Sad to hear Ozzy's passing.

Yeah.

He's iconic.

Absolutely.

One of his contemporaries had moved to Nashville a few years ago.

We got to know him Meatloaf.

And Meatloaf was a fun guy.

He was a character.

And I got to know him, spend a little time with him.

Never met Ozzie, but Meatloaf passed away in 2020.

And

really miss him.

But an incredible dude.

It was a lot of fun.

So that era of those guys

and gals,

they're special, especially for an old dude like me.

I mean, that's pretty cool.

I got mama.

I'm coming home in my head right now.

There you go.

There it is.

All right.

Zach is in Philadelphia.

Hey, Zach, what's up?

How are you doing, sir?

Not bad.

How about you?

Better than I deserve.

How can I help?

So,

first of all, thank you for taking my call, sir.

And I've listened to you for a while, but unfortunately, over the last couple of years,

made a few bad financial choices and had to be able to get a lot of time.

Oh, you weren't listening.

You were just listening.

Yeah,

okay.

I got myself out of debt the first time

using your guidance.

Oh, you really did?

Okay.

I did.

Yep, I did.

And then I went to the military,

had some crazy things happen, including getting in a big car wreck with someone that wasn't insured.

So I kind of racked up some debt there in addition to student loans, things like that.

So I'm just looking for your advice on that.

So, how much debt have you got now, huh?

About $250,000.

Yo!

Yep.

It's a lot.

What?

How much of that student loans?

About $190,000.

Are you a doctor or a lawyer?

I have a master's degree, so my undergraduates in architecture and economics, and I have a master's in real estate development.

For what?

Oh, my God.

What are you doing for a living?

So, like I said, I just got out of the Marine Corps.

I was an officer.

I'm looking at going back in, but I am in real estate development now.

So I developed real estate on the side.

So these degrees were pre-military?

Correct, yes, sir.

Oh, wow.

So you've been hanging around with this stuff.

Well, thank you for your service to the country, hon.

How old are you?

I'm 26.

Okay.

Well, I mean,

you already know the formula, man.

You've done it before.

It's just got a lot more zeros on it this time, right?

It's got a lot more zeros, yes, sir.

Yeah, and so it's income minus outgo.

Get the income up and the outgo down

and throw everything at the debt.

Are you single?

Yep.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

What will you make this year in your real estate development world?

About $95,000.

Okay.

And you're single?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

And so you're living on,

I don't know, beans and rice, rice and beans.

And how much are we going to throw?

$60,000 at this?

At least, sir.

So, I mean, I just got out of the military.

I'm back living with my folks.

I have pretty much no

I don't pay any rent.

I don't really have my work pays for food.

So, most of that money I can throw towards the debt.

I have about $25,000 in liquidity.

Good.

Let's just throw everything at the debt.

Throw everything at the debt.

Throw everything at the debt and do everything you can to increase your income without doing something stupid and irrational that gets you into a bigger mess of some kind.

Real estate will do that in a heartbeat.

But let's just keep rolling with the income.

And it sounds like it's going to take you three years unless something changes on the income dramatically, doesn't it?

Yes, sir.

I mean, I'm projected to make probably $150 next year

because I just started.

But I'm just wondering, the actual

APRs on this debt is relatively low.

So do I start putting some money in CDs to

beat the APR on

my personal loans are at 2.9 they're specific for military money we're not trying to make a spread we're trying to live yes sir good to go sir you you've created a dead gum mess you can clean up the mess quit trying to do math the only math you need to do is how much i can throw at this debt there's no there's no trick bag to get you out of this the trick bag is you go make a pile of money and you throw a pile of money at your big old mess

yes sir that's how you do it i mean it's really not done there's you know you need to put your mba calculator up and just go go go, how much money can I make and how much can I not spend and thus throw everything at this?

And there's no tricking out of this.

If you start trying to trick out of this, that's where you're going to get yourself more broke.

Okay.

No, let's just say

how fast can I do this?

How deep can I sacrifice?

How singularly focused can I become?

And that is the answer to your equation.

Yeah, I

mean, the only thing I can say is, is you're young enough that you can dig out of this.

It's not going to be fun, but I mean, work like there's no tomorrow.

I'd be taking on two and three jobs.

And stroke that check tonight, what Dave said, that you have 25,000 of liquid cash tonight.

I mean, follow the baby steps.

So 23 of that, or 24 of that, is immediately today.

You need some momentum today.

Shock your system.

And start writing out your plan.

You know how to run spreadsheets.

Run them.

Run your spreadsheet out.

Get on every dollar.

Download the app.

Start to run out.

Okay, what's my debt-free date?

If I make 90 and then I make 150,

uh and what else can i do without getting myself further in debt to get out of this debt so and then the last thing you need to do in this thing zach is you need to analyze what broke in your brain

because your brain was working and then it quit working

and what what happened What caused your brain to break?

I had to do the same thing when I went broke and lost everything.

Okay, what was wrong with my theory?

I had to do an autopsy, bring in CSI and do an autopsy on the patient because the patient was a moron in my case.

And I want to go, okay, I don't want to be a moron anymore, so I need to stop doing this.

What things did you believe that were wrong?

You nailed it.

In his case, he believed that a master's degree would make him so much more money in the field that he's in, and it's not going to.

You call that out immediately.

190 of the 250 is degree-related.

I know real estate developers all over America, the number of them that have a master's degree in real estate development is precisely zero

of the ones that I know.

It is not a requirement to do that world.

And he swallowed a broken, incorrect cultural message that an MBA is going to automatically put you in a different tax bracket.

And that's just a bunch of garbage.

Boys and girls, the secret sauce to your success is in your mirror.

It is not on a college campus.

It's not in a trade school.

It's not in your mama's advice.

It's in your mirror.

You get off your butt, you leave the cave, you kill something, you drag it home.

If you want a sharper axe,

then go get a little education.

That's fine.

But quit looking to education to be your success.

Your success is in your mirror.

It's your get them.

Get them.

That's where success comes from.

The Ramsey Show question of the day is brought to you by Why ReFi.

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Might not be in all states.

Today's question comes from Colin in Arizona.

How do you know when it's time to leave a business that you helped start?

I earn $500,000 a year, but the toll on my mental and emotional health is substantial.

Considering my persistent feeling of disrespect from the other owners, the income has become irrelevant.

The business brings in

around $3 million a year.

Despite this, there are no regular meetings, no formal policies, and

very little collaboration between owners.

Most decisions are made by a gentleman's agreement.

And when I raise concern, I'm told, don't rock the boat.

I want to grow the business, but the other owners have an attitude of working on the business doesn't generate revenue.

My only debt is $350,000 on our mortgage, which we could probably pay off if my partners buy out my shares.

At what point is walking away the right thing to do?

It feels like, Colin, you've reached that point.

You know, look, this is a situation where

I don't see an end to this.

This is going to be a consistent frustration.

And this does have an impact on you mentally and emotionally when you've got a three-headed cow here at the ownership, and this is sticky.

It's gross.

And if you can get the other owners to buy you out, it feels like the time is right.

Pay off the house, sounds like you're entrepreneurial,

refocus, and I think this is the right thing.

Based on what I know here, this doesn't feel like this is going to get any better.

There's two reasons that you need to be bought out immediately.

One is you're miserable

and you're done.

Yeah.

Two is the misbehavior of the business operations are going to cause the failure of the business and you're going to ride the horse till it dies,

and it's going to die.

The DNA change

of death is already in the workings of this business.

The things that they are not doing,

like operating the business well, are going to cause the failure of the business.

Their lack of character in the way they disrespect and treat another owner is going to be one of the things that that lack of character is one of the ways it manifests itself in the way they treat you.

That doesn't mean, it means to me that you're not the only one that gets treated that way.

The team and the talent gets treated that way.

The customers and the vendors get treated that way.

These guys are buttholes.

And this is why partnerships are the only ship that won't sail.

Is this right here?

And this will cause the end of the business.

So you cannot be under the illusion that this is a perpetual $500,000 a year income.

It is not.

It's going to fail.

I don't know when exactly.

It might be five months.

It might be five years.

But the probability of this being your income from this business, if you stuck around miserable for an extended period of time, is precisely zero.

That's the second reason that you get out because don't be under the illusion.

You can't compare your decision to, ooh, I walked away from half a million dollars.

You didn't, because there's not going to be a half million dollars.

Right now it is.

And so, as they say in Tennessee, as we say in Tennessee, get out while the getting's good.

Yes.

This be the time, brother.

I'm going to run.

Fruit, my hair's on fire.

And next time you get ready to be in a partnership, don't.

And this right here is the reason.

Heather is with us.

Heather is in Orlando.

Hi, Heather.

How are you?

Good.

Thank you for taking my call, gentlemen.

Sure.

What's up?

I am

an only child of a mother who was just diagnosed with Alzheimer's dementia.

Prior to that, I got health care surrogate.

Thank you.

Prior to that, I got health care surrogate and POA.

Someone told me to have her quick claim deed the house,

and I did because it was paid off.

Why?

I know.

I didn't, I didn't, I kind of panicked before the diagnosis came.

But you have a power of attorney.

You don't need to quick claim the house.

Oh, I understand.

All right.

So, anyway, what so you've got power of attorney, and how old is your mom, hon?

She's seventy-three.

I am.

What's her name?

What's her name?

Judy.

Judy.

Okay.

And your dad's gone.

Um, they're divorced.

Okay.

Uh, she was single.

Um,

and her house was paid off.

Um, I am a the widow of a VA, so I have VA benefits, so I am able to transfer over my

VA benefit on her taxes now.

So I would get the widow and the homestead.

Oh, on the property taxes.

Yes, sir, yes, sir.

I see.

But I'm finding all of these,

I'm overwhelmed with all of the

Disney stocks and Merrill Lynch and computer state, like all these different ones.

Some were inherited by my grandfather when he passed.

So

she has some investments that you don't understand?

A bunch of them, like from different companies.

Who has been managing those?

Does she have a financial planner?

She just has Merrill Lynch and then these companies are holding these stocks.

She originally started at Disney, so she has Disney and Penn State Oil and just like so many.

Okay, but you have documentation on all of it.

Yeah.

I gathered a as much as I can.

Merrill Lynch suggested that I do

an estate attorney to tell me what to do with all these.

You have any idea what the value of all of that is?

I know just alone, the Merrill Lynch with the retirement and those stocks is $500,000.

Okay.

All right, good.

Well, an estate planning attorney, a state planning attorney would be a good thing, but it's not going to help you with what your problem is.

Your problem is you feel overwhelmed and inadequate because you don't understand all of these investments.

And that's not bad.

It just means you're human.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

Estate planning attorney didn't help you with that.

Okay.

So, what you need is someone in your corner with the heart of a teacher.

And if the folks at Merrill Lynch are not able to teach you what this stuff is and get you comfortable with it,

and it sounds like that their only thing they've thrown at you so far is just getting a lawyer, but that's not the answer to the equation.

The answer is you need someone in your corner that teaches you how to manage this wealth for your mother.

And I assume you're the sole heir.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

And so for your mother, and really ultimately, you are managing this for you because she probably won't need this money.

Yes, sir.

And I need to add on a mother-in-law suite.

Her house is paid off, but I didn't.

A home equity loan or a VA loan.

No, you don't.

If you've got a half a million dollars, you're not going to go borrow money to do this.

Yes, sir.

You're going to use her money to add on anything that needs to be added on.

Okay.

'Cause I was confused by the Mayor Lynch lady when she said, Oh, if you cash out before she passes, if it's worth ten dollars, you know, you pay taxes on a doll uh nine of it.

And if she waits till after she passes, then you get a lesson.

That's called a stepped up basis.

That's right.

She was right about that.

But that doesn't matter.

We're not cashing the whole thing out.

We're just going to cash out enough to do whatever it needs to take care of your mom's physical needs at your home.

Yeah, and so overwhelmed.

I would spend that as a minimal amount.

So the best way to become, to do away with being overwhelmed always is to take a big problem and break it down into little problems.

Yes, sir.

Okay.

So how many little problems do we have here?

Well, every one of those accounts is a little problem until I understand it.

Getting a a bid on and paying cash for the least work we can do to our home to take care of mom.

I do not want you spending $100,000 adding a wing on your house.

Don't do that, okay, for a 73-year-old with a dementia diagnosis.

So, no, we're going to spend the minimal amount.

We're going to take care of mom.

We're not putting her out in the...

backyard in a doghouse or something.

We're going to take care of her, but we're also not going to build the Taj Mahal on the end of your house.

So you need to have some basic information on those things.

I would recommend that you get someone else in your corner.

Go to ramseysolutions.com and click on Smart Vestor Pro and get one of these Smart Vestor Pros that's got the heart of a teacher to sit down with you and begin to unpack this and sit there with someone with the teaching heart until you understand what's going on.

It may take you a little bit.

That's okay.

But that's now your new job.

You need to learn how to manage this half million dollars.

You can do it.

It's it's not hard but you need somebody to help you with it

hey guys george camel here with some exciting news for our financial peace university coordinators if you've ever led fpu or even just thought about it you've got to join us for our coordinator rally happening on july 24th it's packed with insider updates powerful stories and encouragement from me jade warshaw and dr John Deloney.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people

build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host.

Thank you for joining us, America, Open Phones, a 888-825-5225.

Ken Coleman is my co-host, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, and host of a brand new hit on Ramsey Networks called Front Row Seat.

Be sure and check that out, particularly this week's version that we just dropped.

It's excellent.

All right, Lisa is with us in Jacksonville, Florida.

Hi, Lisa.

How are you?

Okay, thank you for letting me call you.

Sure.

How can we help?

Well, I thought I was doing work that I loved, and I thought I was locked in until I got to my full retirement age, but

the company that I worked for did a layoff.

And so now I find myself 64 years old and not quite ready to retire, but needing to look at it as a possibility.

And I don't know what my next steps need to be.

What did you do?

What was your

field and title and all that jazz?

I was an editor.

An editor.

And have been doing it.

I've been doing that for, well, off and on for many years.

What type of editor?

I was a specialty editor.

I worked on

directories for professional and trade organizations.

So it was part technical writing and part journalism, but I've done both of those in my life.

So

I enjoyed the work, but it's done now.

Not necessarily.

So one of the things, first of all, this is the kind of thing that just knocks you kind of off kilter, and there's a lot of emotional stuff with all that.

One of the things in the days ahead that you want to really make sure that you focus on is how much skill you've developed and how transferable that writing experience is.

You've got multiple different types of writing disciplines that you can prove and the skill of editing, you know, really play that out and go, what does it take?

You don't have to answer this on the air for sake of time.

But if I were to ask you,

tell me the skills involved in being a good editor, and you would answer that.

And that's a good exercise to write that out because what's important right now is you have to continue to work, correct?

Is that what I'm getting?

Well,

I was planning to, but.

Well, that's different than do you have to work?

I'm not sure yet.

All right, give us the rundown on your numbers, and we'll come back to the work part.

How much is in your nest egg?

I have about 80,000 in my nest egg,

and then I have about another $16,000 that I have saved in my current or my most recent company's retirement program.

So I'll roll that into the other

savings that I have.

And

my baby steps are a little bit out of order,

but I have about

just about $9,000, a little over $9,000 in consumer debt.

I own a home.

I have about $70,000 left on my mortgage.

And I think a part-time job is completely reasonable.

But

I'm not in a position to relocate.

I think you're looking for a full-time job.

You don't have a very big nest egg.

You've still got $70,000 in debt on your house.

And

you don't have a, you know, you're not telling me you got some kind of $20,000 a month pension coming in or something like that.

So

it sounds to me like you're still working,

probably at least till you're 70.

And so, yeah, you're looking for another move in your career.

So back to Ken then.

Proximity principle.

That's right.

And so if I were you,

I am reaching out to everybody I know to tell them that you're a free agent.

I would try to get as much freelance stuff as I could right away.

And this is for momentum's sake, right?

So, you absolutely do need a full-time job, but in the end, in the interim, tonight, like when you get off the phone call, we're looking for some freelance writing projects or editing projects.

You scour the internet if you don't know how to do it, you get, you get, you know, somebody that's in their 20s and they'll show you.

And you're looking at everything available and you're focusing on your experience and what you've done.

You have an impressive resume.

That's the first thing.

Let's get as much work as we can right away while we're looking for the full-time job.

And for you at this stage, you're going to have to look outside of this lane that you've been in because it's very unsettling to be at a company for so long and then all of a sudden I'm out.

And so you're looking at any kind of writing gig that you can get or a job where you're editing and you've got experience and that's what you're leading with.

I'm a good locker room presence.

You know, tell the story.

Don't be ashamed of being laid off.

This happens at large companies.

Own that narrative, confidence up.

And I'd like to give you my best-selling book, The Proximity principle this is going to walk you through in a really plain spoken way what are my next moves to connect with people so that opportunities knock on my door so hang on a line and Kelly will get you the proximity principle Tony's in Denver hey Tony what's up

all right thank you for taking my call

so I'm currently in a I have my property at 2.75%

and I am looking at refinancing at 6.9%.

However, I'm doing it as an investment.

I'm trying to build a shop in my backyard.

I already have a renter lined up for $2,000 a month, but I need $100,000 in order to build it.

Is it smart to adjust my mortgage rate at this point in time?

It is not smart to

borrow money to build a shop in the backyard.

Okay.

We don't teach people to borrow money for investing.

Okay.

Now, the other thing is, is I do have a rental property

that I'm currently getting income from what would you suggest in order for me to build that hundred thousand to invest in that in building a pro

shop

why do you need a hundred thousand dollar shop maybe make it the case for that really quick he's renting it for two thousand dollars a month yeah but um there's more to it than that isn't there

Well, I want to build this mechanic shop.

It's going to have lifts in there and all this and get the electricity, the plumbing, all that.

I'm

between $60,000 to $100,000.

Yeah, but what's the end ROI on all that investment?

What do you hope to do with that equipment?

I hope to utilize it to just rent it as a shop and use it as income.

Okay, so you personally aren't going to use it for your business.

You just want to get it to some mechanic?

Yeah, I actually have a buddy whose shop they raise the rates, and he's looking at building some, and he wanted to sign a contract with me for about five to ten-year lease.

Okay.

I wanted to get the rest of the story.

I don't think this is a good idea at all.

This is a bad idea on multiple fronts.

Number one, I don't borrow money to do investing.

Number two, I don't borrow money to do investing to take care of my buddy's problem.

Number three,

I don't build a shop on the back of my property that there's only one possible tenant for.

That's right.

If this guy goes sideways, gets in a car wreck, or gets his nose down in some cocaine, you now have an empty shop with a bunch of crap in it on the back of your property that you can't rent.

And guess what?

Life happens, and it sounds a lot like that stuff.

So, no, no, I'll pass on the whole thing.

Even if I had 100K cash, I'd pass on this one.

Wow, Dave's a dream killer.

No, Dave's a nightmare killer.

I see nightmares where other people see dreams.

Hey guys, George Camel here.

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Maria is with us in West Palm Beach, Florida.

Hi, Maria.

How are you?

Hi, Dave.

I'm good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

Yeah, so a little context.

I'm married with two little kids, and I work in my dad's company on paper.

I'm the CFO, but really, I just handle the bookkeeping and ads in work.

I did inherit a small ownership share from my grandfather when he passed away.

The business was doing $12 to $15 million during the COVID boom, but the sales have dropped back to pre-COVID levels, which is about $7 to $10 million.

And over the last two years, we've lost about $1.5 million

and we're carrying a million dollars in debt.

I personally take a 50% pay reduction to help with costs.

But fortunately, my husband got a raise and I started my own bookkeeping on business on my side.

And together, that's replaced what I lost.

So personally, we're doing fine financially.

The company feels like it's failing, but my dad won't take my advice advice or make the hard changes.

I feel like I should focus on growing my own business because I'm afraid if the company fails, I'll lose the other half of my income too.

At the same time, though, I feel guilty stepping back because this was supposed to be his retirement and so many family and friends work here.

And with two little kids, my time is already stretched in.

So, my question is: do I step back and focus on building something I can control or keep pouring myself into the family business even though it feels like it's a sinking ship?

Pre-COVID it was making $7 million and making a profit?

That's correct, yes.

So why making $7 million post-COVID is it not making a profit?

Advertising is one of the biggest expenses that we just seem to not be able to get control of.

It's something that seems like it has changed drastically in the past two years.

You're talking about

paid media online?

Yes.

Yeah, it's gone through the roof.

Yeah.

And you guys have not adjusted your media sources and continue to spend like you so he's spending money even though he knows he's losing money.

That's correct, yes.

Why?

What does he say?

It's worked for so long, he doesn't see why it should, why it's not going to work now kind of thing.

It costs four times as much.

That's why it doesn't work now.

That's correct.

I 100% agree with you on that.

Pretty simple thing.

There's no ROI or as we say in that world, no ROAS.

So,

I mean, I just had a conversation at Ramsey this week about this.

I hate the freaking paid media.

Yes.

It's a crack addiction because it works and it costs a lot.

And then they, what do they do?

They come in, they quadrupled our costs since COVID.

And so I'm getting out of the business.

I can't stand it.

Pisses me off every time I write one of those checks to those people.

So we're moving away from it as fast as we can, finding other sources for our customers.

But it,

yeah.

But no,

the landscape has changed.

So to act like it's always worked, so it will always work is that's a ludicrous statement.

I mean, if you were buying cars and reselling them and all of a sudden the cost of the car went up 4x,

you wouldn't say, well, it's always worked before.

That's a dumb butt statement.

Yes, I full-heartedly agree with that.

Yeah.

So how old are you?

I'm 30.

So, your dad's 60.

That's correct.

Yeah.

He started?

Yes, he did.

What kind of business is it?

Outdoor teak furniture.

Okay.

And your location doesn't have high traffic counts, so you are a destination site.

That's why you're buying your customers?

Yes, that's correct.

We're pretty much fully online.

Yeah.

Yeah, well,

the needle is moved.

Our cheese got moved.

Remember the old book, Who Moved My Cheese?

Yeah.

Spencer Johnson.

Yeah, that's the one.

And I'll be out scurrying around looking for my dad gum cheese.

Yeah.

I'm going to ask a hypothetical here.

What would dad do if you quit today?

How would he handle that?

What would he do?

He would not be okay with that.

I do handle, I'm the only one in the company who handles pretty much all anything admin.

Right.

And he's completely stepped away.

You know, in COVID time, he was planning for retirement, right?

So he kind of stepped away a lot of his duties.

Right.

Second class.

Who's running the business?

You?

She is.

Not necessarily.

My uncle, I would say.

He's doing all the sales and marketing.

And

we honestly just did a huge layoff.

So have you had a really

cool question?

You've thrown some darts, but you've not dropped a grenade in the middle of this yet.

No, but have you had the hard conversation with dad?

Not yet.

Not yet, no.

Okay, you've got to do that number one.

So I think you sit down with your uncle and your dad and say, guys,

we're going broke.

And I do not intend to ride a horse until it dies.

This horse is dying.

So you guys have got to change directions here for this business to survive.

Otherwise, none of us are going to have a job.

And I'm not going to ride the horse until it dies.

So we need to come to some agreement about the spending here and

the spending that's not working

because other companies that are online have adjusted their media spend to become profitable.

And they adjusted their media spend down.

Ours is down $20 million at Ramsey

because of the brewing us.

And that's the same thing they're doing to you.

And I can start naming these companies' names, but some of them are broadcasting this show.

So

that's what it comes down to.

So

that's what you're dealing with, are these platforms.

And so you and your dad and your uncle have to sit down and devise a business strategy in today's environment, not yesterday's environment,

that is profitable and that we can all agree to.

And boys, if you're not going to do this, you're going to be doing it on your own.

You don't have to be mean or threatening, but it's just we are losing a million dollars.

We can't keep doing that.

That's not sustainable.

None of us are going to have a job.

I'm not going to sit here and watch this happen.

I love you both, you, uncle and dad, and I'd like to stay here and fight with you, but I have to believe in the strategy that we're using to fight this war and right now we're fighting what's known as a losing battle right

and stop it

and so i think i think you're going to have to have that conversation and it's not threatening like throwing a fit like i'm going to quit if y'all don't behave it's we have a business problem you all aren't addressing it and no one's going to continue to work here because no one's going to have the you're not going to have the money to pay payroll right

we're going to go broke i mean you can't make you can't lose a million dollars a year, but for so long, agreed.

Agreed, yeah.

And it's been two years this year.

It's not looking good either.

Exactly.

So

wake up and smell the coffee, boys.

Something's got to change.

And the only thing I would add to what Dave said he's spot on, I would add to them, just so it doesn't feel like a threat, because it's going to be an emotional reaction to this, is what I gather.

Just this conversation.

I would say, listen,

if you guys don't agree with me and you want to move on without me, I got to move on.

Here's one thing I'm going to do.

I'm going to find my replacement.

So you're going to need somebody to do what you're doing, and I think you do need to do it.

If you want me to help you find and train the replacement, I'm willing to do that.

I'm not mad at you, that's right.

But I just see that I'm reading the tea leaves, and y'all aren't even looking at the tea.

And I'm the one sitting there looking at the numbers, boys.

We can't, you can't, you know, you can't lose a quarter watermelon and get a bigger truck.

It doesn't work.

Right.

It's pretty basic business stuff here.

So, yeah, I'm sorry, hon.

That's pretty standard stuff.

But but your dad

is

living in 2018 and 2019 emotionally, and he wishes he could go back there.

And this is his wake-up call that he can't.

I'm afraid old Dave has to face those things from time to time, too.

It's getting old things, a pain in the butt.

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In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Lowry and Stephanie are with us.

Hey guys, how are you?

Hey.

Good.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

Welcome.

Where do you guys live?

We live in Hayes, North Carolina.

Okay.

Welcome to Nashville.

And what's Hayes near?

It's about halfway in between Boone and Winston-Salem.

Oh, beautiful area.

Okay, very nice.

And how much debt have you guys paid off?

We've gotten a little over $700,000.

I believe what, $710,000.

Whoa, how long did this take?

Eight years.

Eight years.

And your range of income during that time?

Went from about $100,000 to $180,000.

Okay, cool.

What do y'all do for a living?

I'm a nurse.

Or nurses.

Both of you.

Okay, wow.

Very cool.

So I'm guessing with eight years and $710,000, maybe you guys paid off the house.

Yeah.

Oh,

looking at weird people.

Congratulations.

So how old are you two?

44.

Lowry will be 44 next week.

All right.

Very fun.

And a paid-for-home.

What's the home worth?

It's about $250,000.

Excellent.

Very cool.

So $250,000 of $710,000?

Oh, nursing degrees.

Well, we had a lot in there.

That's like our.

Yeah.

How much of the $7.10 was the mortgage?

Well, the first mortgage we paid off was about $350,000.

So in this process, we

started in a a house that was much too large for us, and the mortgage was too big for us to pay.

So we paid that or sold that house,

paid off lots of other things.

We had our two other houses, too.

My old house, her old house, all that stuff had to do.

And the one that was too expensive.

And the one that was too expensive.

And you sold all three?

Yes.

Yes.

Whoa, so that's a lot of the 710.

Correct.

Okay, and now you're in a house you can afford.

Yes.

And is it paid for?

Yes.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

So it worked out.

Yes.

Once you decide to not play real estate monopoly.

Okay.

All right.

I got you.

Good deal.

So tell me the story.

What happened eight years ago?

How long y'all been married?

14 years.

Okay.

So six years into marriage.

We got three houses and stuff we can't afford.

Life's not fun.

What happened?

We had decided at the end of 2016 to find a financial peace class.

Lowry had heard about you and heard about the glass, and he said, I want you to find a class, and I want to sign up.

We were having

just so many challenges, paycheck to paycheck, all the classic stuff.

She's looking at me like, why haven't you paid this bill yet?

Well, we get paid in a couple days.

I'll pay it then.

You know, that kind of thing.

So, just week to week, the fights, the disagreements, that was getting pretty intense.

And it was just a realization that something had to change.

Yeah, something had to change.

So we started Financial Peace in February of 2017

and it took us about three weeks into the class for us to just look at one another and say, how can the two of us be so educated and so stupid?

That's funny.

Yeah.

What's funnier is Lowry's face because she just laid it out there and he was kind of like, yeah.

Yeah,

we became gazelle intense.

We sold everything that we could possibly sell.

We sold two rental homes, a truck, a camper.

We paid off student loans.

We paid off probably

seven credit cards.

How much student loan debt was there?

About $60,000.

No, that wasn't it then.

Okay, credit cards.

How many credit cards?

How much credit card debt was there?

Probably close to

40, yeah.

Okay, so it was really just you all were disorganized and you're normal.

You had normal debt.

You had normal credit card debt, normal student loan debt, bought a couple rental houses or kept them instead of selling them.

Bought a house you couldn't afford.

And so you're just asleep at the wheel and you look up and go, Okay, we're going to try driving now.

Yeah.

And all of a sudden, the fights turn into celebrations as everything starts selling.

Correct.

Yeah.

So we were consumer debt-free by the end of 2018.

One year.

One year.

Yeah, almost two years.

Because

February of 17th, when we started, so December of 18, consumer debt was handled.

The excess mortgages were gone.

We just had our primary house.

Did you decide in the initial swath to sell it, or did it was selling it the second stage?

That was probably about seven months into the process where we were like,

this is also a problem.

We're looking at the numbers and we realized

we were well over 25% and we were filling it still.

And it was just, time-wise,

made no sense whatsoever.

Yeah.

My dad used to say, recognizing there is a problem is 90% of solving it.

And so that day, when you came home and looked at her and said, I'm going to find a financial piece class, I'm done.

I'm over this.

I've had it.

And she's like, finally.

And then we go to class, and you instantaneously got aligned, didn't you?

Yes.

That's pretty amazing.

I was confused on the way to class.

We only have like maybe a 10-minute drive to class.

And the first time time that we drove, on the way, he was like, I think they're going to tell us that we need to cut our credit cards up.

And I said, why on earth would they tell us that?

Why would we do that?

And

then we got a couple of classes in, and I was like, oh, oh, I understand this now.

Yeah.

But I mean, you guys got aligned within three or four weeks, five weeks of each other.

Yes.

And for the first time, really, in six or seven years.

Absolutely.

And then once you got aligned, it was like, boom, execute, execute, execute, execute.

I mean, because you guys are used to coming up with a treatment plan as nurses and then follow the treatment plan, the patient gets well most of the time.

Hello.

And so you use your same training, but just use the way your brains work, but in a different setting, in a different compartment and department.

Yeah, I have a follow-up to what Dave just pointed out and asked.

So once you got on the same page about what you needed to do, the baby steps,

did the tension, even though you were still in the debt, did the tension that was causing the fights, did that subside?

Absolutely.

See, that's a key point I want couples to hear.

Tell us why you think that happens.

I think that the tension that we had between one another,

we

focused on the problem.

We put intention on the problem and started focusing on that instead of what he and I were doing wrong.

We developed a plan together.

We were able to actually work together towards that specific

and that expanded to everything everything else.

So the take.

Raised the kids,

whatever.

Okay, I just want to make sure I just got this thought.

It's you took it to intention, and that relieved all of the tension because it was just now we have a way out.

You didn't have a way out before.

That's great.

I just hope couples hear that.

That's why this plan works so well.

And it's why so many times over the years, people in the past would come up and they go, you saved our marriage.

I'm like, you went to the wrong class.

The sex class was down the hall.

I mean, but

they're like, no, this is, you know,

we've been going to marriage counselors and couldn't figure out how to be together.

And that's right.

And all of a sudden, when you have a common goal and the enemy is outside the house, the villain is no longer inside the house, it changes everything.

And

once you learn to fight together, like you said,

towards a goal, then that applies to everything else, like raising kids.

It applies to every other department, compartment in your life.

So, way to go, y'all.

I'm so proud of you.

Thanks.

Who was cheering you on?

Well, in the beginning, I'll just say there was a lot of people that thought we were crazy.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, we mostly had help from people who took FPU with us and the coordinators at that class.

What church was that?

Triad Baptist in Kernersville, North Carolina.

Okay.

Thanks for teaching that class.

Within the last three years, we have been able to host Financial Peace at our church.

Oh, wow.

And we've amassed a good, close group of friends who have been very supportive.

Very good.

What church is that?

Fairy Plains Baptist in North Volksboro, North Carolina.

Wonderful.

All right, bring the kiddos up to do the debt-free scream.

Tell us their ages and names.

Okay, this is Lawson, and he's 13.

And this is Selma, and she's 11.

And they survived this.

Selma has never known life without Dave.

We used to drive around in the car together and listen to your show in Debt-Free Scream.

Is this

Deb-Free Scream here?

Selma, I'm so sorry.

Oh, boy.

All right, Lowry, Stephanie, Lawson, and Selma, North Carolina.

$710,000 paid off.

What a wonderful story.

Eight years making $100 to $180,000.

Sold everything in sight, got their lives back.

Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream.

All right.

Three, two, one.

We're debt-free!

What a cool couple.

That's fun.

Yeah, what about you?

Yeah, I'm talking to you.

What about you?

Our scripture today is 1 Peter 4:10.

Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others as faithful stewards of God's grace in its various forms.

Henry Ford said, A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business.

Oh, I agree.

Folks, if anyone in your life depends on your income, you need life insurance, and we only recommend term life insurance.

Life insurance has one job: replace your income if you die.

We never recommend any kind of investment insurance, like whole life or permanent life.

It tries to do two jobs at once, and it does a bad job at both.

You only need life insurance while someone depends on you financially.

So, if you're like most people, you need a policy worth 10 to 12 times your annual income for 10 or for 15 to 20-year level-term insurance.

For more info and resources, use our insurance, term life insurance guide.

Go to ramseysolutions.com slash term lifeguide or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast or just go to zanderinsurance.com.

Amelia is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Hi, Amelia.

How are you?

Hi, I'm doing well.

How are you?

Better than I deserve.

What's up?

I have a question on budgeting priority whenever you are in a long-term rainy day period.

A little bit of background.

We purchased a house, we saved quite a bit of money up, we saved a total of $65,000 before we purchased our house back in February of last year.

And we purchased the house and unfortunately

we purchased it and the previous owner had completed renovations that did not meet code and caused immediate concerns to the house that we have now subsequently been fixing and are also being held to bring the house up to code because of the stuff that they they did, unfortunately.

Did you have a home inspection?

We did, and unfortunately, so we have gone through, we are in a lawsuit right now, the home inspection.

And with the former owner.

The former owner, fun fact, the former owner was also the real estate agent, and they're a flipping company.

And they are very, I mean, they're terrible people who are acting as general contractors and as a business and

are just, they're continuing to do it.

They have 14 other houses.

Okay, so how much money is this costing you out of pocket to fix this house up?

So far, we have spent $86,856,

and we have to go to complete everything.

I've got estimates, and we're slowly working our way.

Total amount at the very end will be $154,957.

What's this house worth?

$375,000 is what we purchased it for.

We negotiated.

It's saying right now that it's worth $410,000.

As is?

As is, we can't sell it right now with its open permit.

But if I were to sell it today,

the bathroom's kind of gutted.

So if I were to sell it today, we would probably get maybe $380,000.

Yeah.

What's wrong with just selling it today?

You can sell it with an open permit, by the way.

It's just a cash sale.

You can't get a permanent mortgage on it.

But an investor could buy it.

If you could get somebody to give you what you've got in it, get out.

Get away from this thing.

And then we would lose the well, that's true.

So we would just lose the money that we put it for the down payment and what we're currently at and what we've currently invested to try to bring in.

No, you said you paid 380 and you're 375 and you get 380.

Yes.

So the down payment would be coming back to you.

The down payment would be coming back to you.

You don't lose that, but you would lose any additional money you've put into it since you bought it,

which so far is

80 grand.

86.

Yes.

And then you've got to put another 150 in it.

So you're going to be upside down in this thing.

I'm sorry, another 72,000.

So 720.

Oh, a total of 150.

A total of

correct.

All right.

So let me see, 380.

So 375 measures.

So you're going to have $525,000 in a house when you're done that's worth what?

When you're done?

$475,000.

Probably when we're done with everything, because we're upgrading, since we have to gut some stuff, we're upgrading a little bit to add some more value.

Like, for example, we're adding a bathroom.

So if we were to sell it with all of the upgrades done, we could probably get around $450,000.

Yeah, so you're going to lose your product.

So you're going to be $75,000 in the hole when you're done with this plan.

Why is this a good plan?

The only reason we're kind of sticking with it was our lawyer with the lawsuit that we're going, and we're suing them.

I think, unfortunately,

the question is, are you going to get anything?

Even if you win the lawsuit, they're broke, probably.

I hope not.

Oh, they are.

Yeah.

The good thing is we do have a guilty verdict already has been determined by the state fire marshal for the home inspectors, so they have been found guilty for missing all of the

are they writing a check?

We're not sure yet.

The lawsuit is an umbrella.

They're suing both the previous owner, the real estate company, and the home inspector.

So we're the law the lawyer is saying we need $150,000 or $154,000.

I don't care who pays what, but that's what the number is we need that's what we need.

And then let the three people that we're suing figure out.

So the

home inspector had state farm insurance?

Maybe?

I think so, yes.

That's weird.

Okay.

All right.

And

they've already agreed to settle at least part of it.

They have not agreed to what amount, but they have agreed that they have admitted a ⁇ yes, there's an admission of guilt.

So they're going to write a check of some kind.

All right.

Exactly.

All right.

So you're going to get some of this.

So you're probably going to break even when all this is done, is what you're saying.

That's what we're trying and we're pushing for, yes.

And how long has this saga been going on?

Since February of last year.

Yeah, probably another year and a half.

Yeah, okay.

And in the meantime, we've been for debt-wise, I think I'm trying to figure out budgeting.

I think you're in the middle of a hurricane.

I don't think you're getting out of debt while you're in the middle of a hurricane.

Thankfully, there's not much.

Yeah, I think you've got one problem right now, and it's a big enough one that he's taking on everything.

I think you're just your baby steps and all that stuff's on hold until you get these lawsuits settled and get some checks in, get the stinking renovation done, and then you get on with your life.

And then,

yeah.

Did the new information she gave you change your mind on putting it up for sale and see if they can get a cash buyer on it?

Yeah, I think I'm probably going to wait and get the settlement out of it because it sounds like they're going to probably get their 150.

Yeah.

It sounds like this lawyer is probably doing a pretty decent job.

But I really, honestly, if State Farm is writing a check for the building inspector, you're probably going to get that money.

The money you're hoping to get from the flipper, you're probably getting nothing because that flipper is probably broke.

Most flippers are broke.

And so I just, I'll bet you they got no cash.

And I'll bet you you're going to get nothing out of them.

Which is probably why they sold it the way in this.

Because they cheaped out on all the repairs and then they flipped it

instead of doing them properly.

Yeah.

And so

it's an unscrupulous flipper.

And so that's what she's describing anyway.

So, yeah, I think she's, you know, you may get most of your 150 and at least enough of it that you're not going to be upside down in the house by the time the smoke clears on this, so to speak.

Wow.

And this is.

I'm trying to think how to avoid this for somebody else listening.

Well, if the judgment against the flipper holds, if it goes through, even if they have no cash, would a judge

put liens on their other stuff.

Right.

But that still doesn't mean you're going to get anything.

Exactly.

Okay.

That's what I was trying to say.

Broke people can't pay.

Right.

You can sue them, and it doesn't make them have money.

They're still broke people.

Right.

And so that's this misnomer that if I sue somebody, I'm going to get money.

Not necessarily.

They may be broke.

I mean, I've got judgment liens against people.

I'll never see the money.

They didn't pay their bill, and they're never going to pay their bill, and they don't have money.

It's not, it's no sense sitting up at night going, oh, if I but I have a lawsuit.

It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter at all.

The only people that really make money on lawsuits are lawyers.

They're the only ones.

So,

gosh, what a pain in the butt.

I'm so sorry, Amelia.

Sorry you're going through that.

But I guess the way you avoid this in the future, folks, is you

have a little more confidence in the real estate agents you're working with and with the quality of the home inspector.

Obviously, this home inspector was inept.

I was thinking through that.

I'd become friends with a general contractor.

Yeah.

Because that's somebody you theoretically trust and say, hey, would you walk through it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I pay them.

By the time she's finished with this, she'll be a general contractor.

So

that puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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