‘Friday Night Lights’ With Bill Simmons and Mallory Rubin

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We're Mallie Rubin hosts House of Are with Joanna Robinson.

Yes.

Who we team up, the three of us, Prestige TV podcast, season three of White Lotus in February.

We did the recaps for season two.

We're doing them again for season three.

We're not splitting up Joanne and Rob Mahoney.

They're going to do the precaps on Friday.

Yes.

And then the three of us because we had a great time the last time.

I can't wait.

I don't even remember.

It felt like, was that 10 years ago?

Was it two?

Was it one?

How long ago was it?

It was a long time ago.

It's been a couple of years.

Will we be?

Is this where you're ready to officially confirm that we'll be recording on location in Thailand?

You want to, we have to film all of them at once after the football season.

Yeah, we could do it.

We'll have to fly there right after

I'm going to um dress.

I'm gonna have the facial hair, hair, and shirts of the concierge in season one.

That's gonna be my look.

That's gonna be how was that guy's name in season one?

The guy who ends up you're talking about the Murray Bartlett character, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do you think you can match that mustache?

Yeah, I'm gonna try to get it going anyway.

Uh, I brought you on for the last rewatchables of the year.

I'm honored to discuss a movie that we love very much.

Friday Night Lights is next.

In the town where winning is everything.

Here's to statement.

Let's bring them a helmet.

A team with no chance.

Who are you going?

You want me to go in coach?

You don't want a helmet?

My goodness gracious.

We'll make hope come alive

on Friday night.

This is our team.

This is us.

Let's go right now.

From the producer of 8 Mile comes one of the greatest sports stories of all time.

Friday Night Lights.

I don't want this to never end, Mike.

Never.

Never.

This film is not your greatest.

It starts October 8th.

All right, Mallory.

I don't think anybody loves the Friday Night Lights franchise more than you, with the possible exception of me and a couple others.

I go way back to the book coming out when I was in college, Buzz Bissinger's book.

And it was one of the best sports books, not only the 80s, but probably ever.

It was two years after Season of the Brink with the John Feinstein book about John Feinstein about Bobby Knight.

And it was just this glory stretch of, it started with Breaks of the Game, the beginning of the decade.

And Friday Night Lights came out.

It was awesome.

I was immediately attached to everybody.

And then the question became, when is this going to be a movie?

Right.

It took 16 years for this to be a movie.

So when did you read the book?

God, college.

Yeah.

Yeah.

College.

It's been a long time since I've read the book.

I have it like behind me over there.

But yeah, I read it because this came, the movie came out in 2004, which was when I graduated high school and then started college.

So I read the book because it was like out in the, in the, in the ether because of the film.

Yeah.

And so it's been, it's been a while since I've returned to the text, but obviously it's, it's a, a more frequent rewatch for me.

Wow.

Literally yesterday.

What a joy.

This did the triple crown of the book, the movie, and the TV series.

Yeah.

Which.

You know, there's, there's been really good movies that led to better TV shows.

We have Bash is probably the most famous example of this one, Buffy the vampire slayer

i think parenthood there's a really good argument what's better the movie or the tv series it kind of depends what you like but both of them ended up being pretty high-end and then this one which i think the tv show kind of overwhelmed the movie and now the movie has become weirdly underrated yeah yeah i don't think there's any doubt that

the excellence of the television show, which is, you know, unmatched, like this is one of the best television shows ever made, has has diminished the film subsequently and so like to revisit this movie a couple times in the last week prepping for the pod was a real joy because honestly like even though i love the movie and i love a football film i love a high school film i love a high school football film i love a story set in a small town in texas i love billy bob it has so much yeah i had really found myself like not thinking about the movie a ton because the show just takes up so much real estate in my mind and in my heart.

So it was really fun to revisit it.

I do think that it's just kind of undeniable that it can hold a candle to the show, but I also think it's okay to say that and acknowledge that without it really being a slight on the film, because it's more about the show's excellence than it is about anything the movie is lacking.

Yeah, it's almost not fair.

They had so much time and real estate and space to explore with the TV show.

And that was the great thing about this movie is.

It's a TV show wrapped in a two-hour movie.

There's so many plots, characters, so many interesting things going on.

It's all concentrated in this one season.

But for my kids, like neither of my kids have watched Friday Night Lights.

And I kind of can't believe my daughter hasn't watched it yet because it checks a lot of boxes of things she likes on a show.

But I have watched a movie with my son who really likes it and would never watch the TV show.

And I wonder as the years pass, is the movie actually going to take on greater significance than the show for people who don't feel like diving into a five-season show?

The other thing we have is there's going to be a reboot coming.

Right.

So I saw Peter Berg, who I've known forever.

I saw him a couple weeks ago to Christmas party, and this is like happening.

It's in, I don't know what took so long.

Yeah.

And

I, it frankly should have come out like six, seven years ago, right?

I was ready for the TV show to come back 10 years ago.

I think that if the continuation of the television series had happened too close to the end of the original series, everybody would have wanted it to follow those characters, right?

Right.

Kyle Chandler, you would want to be in Pennsylvania with the Chandlers, like with with the Taylors.

You would want to know what Riggins was up to.

So the extra time allows them to do what it sounds like they are going to do, which is use the title as a bucket to tell different stories about high school football in Texas.

So this is going to be a completely different cast, different characters.

I'm sure at some point, some of our favorites will make their way into a given scene.

How could they not?

But this isn't going to be about Tammy and Eric Taylor.

Like, this isn't going to be about the characters from the original Friday Night Lights, which is, I think, essential.

If you tried to redo the show that was perfect, that's a disaster waiting to happen.

You can't do it.

So

new characters, new story,

same set of core ingredients with like this perfect alchemy that leads to this incredible brew.

As long as they have explosions in the sky, we're probably good.

The thing is, though,

I do feel like we've missed a lot of opportunities TV-wise to just like run back a concept with different characters.

Even Entourage, I think, could have easily done this and just had a different actor or a musician or somebody in their entourage moving in and going through some of the same thing.

Maybe it's a black, black hip-hop star, whoever it is.

I think Cheers could have easily, I've talked about this in the past, just take Cheers, move it into a different city and go.

I think ER, which I guess they're kind of doing now at the pit,

a max, but there's certain things that just feel like they would make sense.

And to me, high school football in Texas, they could have moved Friday Nightlights, put it in Pennsylvania, right?

They could have put it in like Minnesota.

I think there's places it could have kept going, but I guess they're just saying we're running back Texas.

I don't know, would you put it in a different city or no?

No, I think this has to, because the idea of like high school football as religion in Texas, the idea of Ratliff Stadium as the cathedral, as the church where the community gathers, that feels to me like a strand of DNA that is inextricable from the experience.

Now, obviously, there are plenty of other high school football hotbeds across the country.

You could set it in Florida.

You could set it somewhere in California.

You could set it in Ohio.

I think that's not an impossibility, but when you hear those three words, Friday night lights, you think of the oil, Derek.

You think of that particular hue of sunrise or sunset over the open plain.

Like, it's just, it is Texas.

I mean, Texas forever, right?

You can't have Riggins say Texas forever for five seasons and then set the next burst of the show somewhere else.

It would just like feel impossible, feel wrong.

Well, think the movie's 04, the TV series is 06.

Yeah.

We don't have any of the stuff we have now.

The from a storytelling standpoint, documentaries,

follow the team around for a season, QB1,

social media.

We didn't really know anything about these worlds other than what was on like Sports Center, what was written about in like a sports illustrated feature.

Kind of going in blank.

So when they brought us into this first with Varsity Blues, which there was a couple

i don't want to call ripoff things because we love varsity blues but there was against the grain an nbc show with ben affleck as the quarterback that failed there was varsity blues same thing like let's go into this texas world what is this why do they care about high school football so much then this movie nailed it and then the tv series took it to nine other levels but i do feel like in 2024 we do have more info on this stuff now right well i think it's a combination of of that of like just the access that you have to the players, to the culture, to the team, but also the landscape of the sport has fundamentally shifted in the last couple of years.

Like we're in the NIL era.

You can't do Friday Night Lights in 2025, 2026, whenever, who knows exactly when the first season is going to hit Peacock and not have NIL be a part of the fabric of the story.

So like the things, you know, obviously booster culture.

I mean, Buddy Garrity icon, right?

Pantheon TV character.

Like it's great to see Brad Leland in the the movie.

It's so fun to go back and be like, Connie Britton, there she is.

I have some thoughts on that coming up.

Brad Leland, there he is.

John Buddy, same character.

Booster culture is a huge part of the story, but the role of

acknowledged money in the sport is just going to be such a central ingredient

in the new series.

So that's kind of interesting.

And I think also that helps me wrap my mind around the idea of how Friday Night Lights is a recurring resource, right?

Because the sport is always changing.

And so you have that like, that harmony between the things that are eternal, the role that high school football, that football plays in Texas as the element that is like fixed and unchanging.

And then you have the nature of high school football, college football, what changes about the landscape, what changes about player empowerment, but also just like what changes about football?

Where are we schematically in 2025, 2026 when this comes out?

And also like so much innovation is always happening at the high school level.

So you have a real, I think, fun opportunity to play there with just like what is happening in the game itself.

So when I first heard the news, I recoiled because I'm like, it just makes me nervous to go back to this beautiful well.

But the more I started thinking about it and reading a little bit about what they were saying about like the concept for the

impetus for the initial story,

I got really excited and I can't wait.

Well, you hit the two big things, NIL

and social media.

which in the movie don't exist.

In the TV series, there's a little social media stuff.

Like there was the, what was Minka Kelly's character name I'm blank Lila Lila the slam page episode which was like one of the one of the first great social media episodes even though we didn't really have social media but imagine imagine Tyra on TikTok oh my gosh I mean it's just a different thing imagine booby miles with nil tick tock the whole thing so I mentioned how it had been 16 years 16 years from book to movie there were seven different rejected scripts brian grazer owned the rights for a while different people will go into some of the casting what what-if stuff with it.

And at some point, there were seven rejected scripts that kind of got pushed aside.

And according to the research, Peter Berg read all of them and reread the book.

And he was like, what did they get wrong?

And he realized that all these things were about like trying to get race and oil and all these different like big picture Texas themes.

And he was like, the book's about what football means to this community, what football means to Texas, that you basically peak when you're in high school if you're on one of these teams.

Those are the themes I need to put in the movie.

And I, I got to say, I like the movie even more than I did when it came out.

And I think part of it is because I was going to do this in What's Age the Best.

Yeah.

The way they film it was so dramatic in 2004.

Oh my God.

The quick cuts.

I saw this.

I actually saw a screening for it because we, I had known Peter forever and he had a screening for a bunch of family friends.

And I remember my one takeaway was like, I'm a little dizzy.

That was, that was hard.

But now I watch it.

I feel like every movie is like this.

I'm totally used to watching it.

Did you notice that this time around?

That it seemed way more not busy.

I, so it's funny.

I also had that in What's Age the Best, just the like editing and cutting and

honestly, the just like the movie is in some ways a series of montages like nature of the of the film.

But then inside of each of the montage, like the the number of moments where you are not just in a huddle, but inside of a, like when

great moment in the history of film when Carter player kick not only pulls Winshill's helmet off but then kicks it directly into his face like you feel the thrust of the helmet moving through the air um there are a lot there's a lot of like close framing and you know you you you were mentioning documentaries and how that has just like uh that's a that's an element of access that we have now to so many teams but it does have even though it's obviously a dramatic film it has that kind of like documentary footage quality to it where the camera is right there inside of the play on the bench but you can feel the kind of spit flying between the coach and the player or the father and the players.

People are yelling at each other.

And so there is a proximity.

There is a proximity that pulls you into the action.

And it can be a little bit like whiplash inducing, but I also found it riveting on a rewatch.

And I think some of that honestly is like.

technology.

We're just so used to watching everything in high death and with like cereal and sound.

And you are now like accustomed.

I mean, I guess in some ways you're accustomed to watching on the smallest stream possible because everybody watches things on their phone now.

But on the flip side, you're used to just the most like immersive viewing and audio experience possible.

And so, like, being in the middle of the field feels appropriate now in a way that it felt like more revelatory back then.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Widescreen.

When this movie was on the square TVs in the five, six years after it came out, it was just harder to follow.

It felt like

super shaky.

So a couple of themes with this.

One, you mentioned earlier about

sports, sports movies, the documentary boom hasn't taken off yet.

Sports movies still have this outside impact on how we consume stuff as sports fans.

And this is coming off this really kind of cool, fun era of sports movies where it was like this like 3.0 version of For Love of the Game, Any Given Sunday,

the,

no, Tin Cup was 96, the replacements, Mystery Alaska.

It's...

uh summer catch there was like a cottage industry all them were making money remember the titans i could name like 20 of them They're all doing really well.

And Friday Night Lights is moving us toward this kind of next iteration of whatever that was.

And it's leading to stuff like money ball and win-win and like dramas that also happen to be about sports.

And I think by the end of the decade, Friday Night Lights sets the tone for that.

So that's one thing.

The other thing is

it's the rare sports movie where the good guys don't win,

which has happened like less than 10 times.

And it's always infuriating when it happens the first time.

But then from a rewatchable standpoint, it's actually great that they don't win.

This is a

top-tier what's aged the best.

And obviously, like, we'll say this, I think, many times throughout the pod.

This is based on a book that is about a true story.

So, you're talking about real history.

They didn't win.

In fact, in real life, they were eliminated in the semis, right?

Not even the championship game.

But still, the drama of building toward, you have the opening like expectation.

It's not really an underdog story, except for the fact that they're small.

We keep hearing that they're small.

And so you have that like seed of doubt about whether they'll be able to do it.

But because of Booby, because of Coach Gaines, like the expectations are so preacher, Preacher's like six, eight, 400.

Love Preacher.

The way he's filmed.

The first interview with Preacher where he just does not respond once.

He's basically Miles Garrett as an 18-year-old.

Great stuff.

And then you have the fall of Booby's injury and then the just cratering.

This team is completely lost without him.

And then they manage to put it together and win and make the playoff.

Can't wait to talk about the coin flip.

And then they don't do it.

Like to come up just short after all of that.

It feels right in a way that, like, even though when you're watching a sports movie, you want the team to win, you want to see them hoist the trophy.

There's something weirdly to me, like more satisfying about watching the team lose.

I don't know what that says about me or why I like that more, but the pans of Carter celebrating and

the Panthers in a state of abject despondence.

But here's the true magic.

You get just enough hope sprinkled in.

You see

Charlie and Donnie Billingsley embrace, right?

Like there's hope mixed in with the pain.

And then, of course, we build toward like those ending updates on where everybody went, including the fact that they won.

They won the next season.

They had to be aware of that.

Do you need this after our Ravens?

Do you need this after every Ravens season ends badly?

This is where everyone is low emotion.

Maybe that's why I respond on a soul deep level to seeing the team lose at the end.

It's one of the best sports movie endings of a game sequence ever.

The two guys slumped at the one-yard line, Billingsley and Winchell.

And they keep cutting back to them and they're just, they look like they've just been in a war and they're so despondent.

It's great.

So the history of sports movies where the good guys don't win, at least modern version, last 50 years.

Yeah.

Bad News Bears and Rockies, same year.

Yep.

Right.

That was the first time that flipped.

All the Right Moves is a really good version of this where

they messed around in a couple of ways.

They had the big game early on in the first

40% of the movie.

It seems like they won.

For some reason, they don't take the safety.

Then the guy fumbles coming out of the goal line, recovering the end zone in the pouring rain, touchdown, and it's just devastating.

And then poor Steph never plays football again.

Tin Cup, where now we've had a whole generation of, hey, it was really cool when the good guy didn't win.

Yeah.

And Ron Shelton twists it in the ending of Tin Cup.

A League of Their Own, which is earlier than Tin Cup.

But now you could argue if you're Rudy, if you're a Lori Petty person in that movie, maybe the good guys did win.

Right.

If you're a Tom Hanks, Gina Davis, you weren't.

Oh, man.

Any given Sunday and Moneyball are the other two.

Great list.

I mean, that's a great thing.

State list, probably the other than Rocky, probably the best one.

I would also throw in Friday Night Lights.

Like season

three.

Oh.

Not winning State in season three is just so perfect, but so devastating.

And like one of my, when I think back on the series, because of course you have State, you have them winning in season one, despite everything.

One of the great memorable images in the history of TV were like what happened at the end of season five.

And then we see the ring on Vince's hand and we realize they won.

We get, we're bookended by titles, but that anguish in the middle of knowing a certain era of

Coach Taylor Panthers football had ended, like that visual of Tim leaving his cleats

just like shatters me.

It's so good.

So good.

Well, season three, they won because it wasn't season two.

Shout out, Landry.

It's a hard thing to pull off, though, because you have to have a really good movie

not to win

at the end after I've just spent two hours hoping that the good guys are going to win and they don't.

So one of the reasons we're doing this pod, other than we've been dying to do this movie forever, is

our guy, Billy Bob Thornton, who's having a renaissance.

The only person who loves Landman more than me is probably you.

And maybe like two members of Taylor Sheridan's family.

And it's a Billy Bob Resurgence.

It's so much fun watching him in any given Sunday.

Basically, as the Landman guy.

Oh my God.

I cannot believe it took 20 minutes to mention Landman.

I'm astonished.

Should we throw it?

Actually, let's throw it to a break.

And when we come back, we'll talk about Billy Bob and Landman.

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All right.

We were talking about Billy Bob before the break.

First of all, best 21st century Billy Bob movie,

I think, hands down.

I'll give you some other candidates if you want.

Okay.

Monsters Ball is probably the highest end.

That would be my pick, honestly.

Not a re-watchable.

Downright

to revisit.

I would say that that will not be on the re-watchables.

Yeah, maybe that's probably the highest end quality movie, and Heath Ledger is amazing in that movie.

But this is the most rewatchable.

Some people might go with Bad Santa.

Not over this.

Come on.

Intolerable Cruelty.

Yeah.

Some people go, not me.

But this was kind of the peak of that whole run that starts with Slingblade.

He's got this little tenure run.

He was at that guy forever.

And then all of a sudden, Slingblade, he's in Armageddon.

He's in Simple Plan.

Yep.

He's in Pushing Tin, which they tried to do a movie about,

which we call it, the Flight Dudes.

But most important, starts dating Angelina Jolie, and they become a crazy celebrity couple.

They give crazy interviews.

They're wearing blood around each other's neck.

And that's something that's like a violent blood necklace.

I remember it well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

They had that interview where they just said they had sex in the limo and the way they wore a show.

And at some point, it was like, this guy might be insane.

But he rallies back and it all culminates in him playing Coach Gaines.

He had like

a lot of nominations, right?

For

Slingblade, and like that that run of not only getting nominated for like adaptive screenplay but getting acting nominations a couple times yeah establishing himself as a fascinating not only performer but celebrity like you're saying because of the angelina jolie relationship i have a pretty vivid memory of of being a young person seeing the the blood necklaces and thinking like what what is going on with these people this is like fascinating and almost magnetic, but also kind of actively alarming.

He's just incredibly capable and talented and interesting performer.

I was really excited when he was in Fargo.

That was like a fun, just getting into the era of Billy Bob on TV.

I didn't watch, I didn't, did you, were you a Goliath person?

I didn't watch Goliath, but I know people really liked his performance and that.

And now having him back in our lives, not just occasionally, but weekly on Landman.

The best version of Billy Bob.

is the gift of the year.

I mean, this show is so entertaining.

My favorite weekly tradition is to text you and Chris and Jeff like a random time period.

I believe this Saturday was 10 and 10 hours and 36 minutes until land down.

And I'm just like waiting to boot up the app on a Saturday night because I have a thriving social life and a lot going on.

And he's just, it's not only a great performance and him and Allie Lard are together, the Tommy and Angela characters, it's just magic.

It's absolute magic.

But seeing him back in Texas, it does put you in a Coach Gaines Friday Night Lights headspace.

Though I would say like the Tommy Narris character is much more overtly Texan to me than his Friday Night Lights Coach Gaines role.

I don't know.

I don't know if he's a good player.

He's the same kind of thing where there's chaos going all around him.

He's trying to solve problems, right?

He's doing a little more subtly as Coach Gaines.

Landman, he's a little more.

Total, yeah.

Fixer.

A little more of a character and probably a little bit of a darker side.

But they definitely seem like they're brothers, at least.

But he's somebody I've always just really liked.

And if you kind of catch him in the right role in the right movie, whatever, you just think he's one of the best actors on the planet.

He's really really good in this.

He pulls it back.

Uh, there's some fun scenes like with him and the boosters, with the way he plays it,

where there's a we really need to win this week.

And he's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, I gotcha.

I love that moment when they charge into his office unprompted, and they're like, We've just got some thoughts on the defense.

Yeah, he just kind of knows what he has to do, but um, I think this is his

Monster Ball was really great.

Yeah, that's I just never want to, I've only seen it twice.

I saw it once in the theater and then once a couple years later, and it's just, it is not a fun movie.

It's upsetting.

It's an upsetting movie.

So Friday Night Lights is probably last the longest.

This movie had breakout moments for a lot of people, though.

Peter Berg,

who had directed two movies, but this was the one that really catapulted him.

Plus, he ended up putting together the TV show, which you can read about on a great old website called Grantland.

I think it was.

month two of Grantland.

We did a long oral history.

Robert Mays did it.

It was his first big assignment.

And

he got everybody.

Yep.

It was the early 2010s were unusual.

He could be like, I'm doing an oral history.

And you'd literally get everyone in the movie and everybody who was behind it.

Now you'd get like three people.

But so Peter Berg, this launches him.

And by the end of the decade, he was a big enough star that he was one of the first two directors we got for 30 for 30.

And from a credibility standpoint, it was a huge deal with other filmmakers.

It was like we had Barry Levinson, we had Peter Berg.

Oh, oh, so you guys are for real.

It was one of those.

So I'll always be grateful to him for that.

Explosions in the sky.

Incredible.

Incredible.

Them and Tangerine Dream in the finals for movie scores.

You hear those electric chords.

Yeah.

And it just makes you want to charge onto the field.

It's like,

it gives you like goosebumps.

It does.

Yeah.

That's if any great movie score does that, right?

It not only like gives you that kind of tingle in your spine and the goosebumps on your your skin, but it pulls you right back into that very specific setting.

And this score really, really does that.

And I love the way that the movie and the television scores are like in conversation with each other.

They're so similar, but also specific and slightly distinct.

I can't wait to talk to producer Craig about this movie

at the end of the pod.

He's never seen the movie of the TV show.

I don't know what his

history is with explosions in the sky,

but I feel like in the social media, it's probably, you're probably aware of it in some way with some of the clips.

So anyway, big win for those guys.

Yeah.

The cast, Derek Luke, Garrett Hedlund, Jay Hernandez, Lucas Black, they're all really good and they all went on to do stuff.

And I think the casting in this movie in general, I had a lot of trouble with, oh, what would I do if I could recast apart?

I don't know.

Garrett Hedland.

as

basically Riggins.

Oh, yeah.

In the TV show, he becomes Riggins.

Yep.

Versus the actual Riggins.

Who do you have?

Oh, I mean, come on.

Is that a true chance?

I just wanted to make sure.

I just wanted to make sure.

I love Garrett Hedland.

I actually think, I think,

I think Donnie Billingsley is like quietly my favorite character.

I really, really like him.

No question.

Yeah, I really like that character.

And obviously the Tim McGraw performances as his father is just tremendous.

But Taylor Kitch's Tim Riggins is like a Mount Rushmore TV character.

He's untouchable.

I just want to make sure.

No, Corporate.

Liz Kelly, Craig's wife, has Garrett Hedlund.

We did Country Strong once on the Rewatchables because it's her favorite movie.

Great.

I feel like I owed it to her.

She's been an important person for the ringer.

But Garrett Hedlund, that was probably his

peak.

I always liked him as an actor.

I always really liked Lucas Black.

He ended up in one of the fastest

movies.

I think.

Tokyo Drift.

Yeah, Tokyo Drift.

Jay Hernandez has had like a long TV career.

And then

Derek Luke.

who was the oldest of all of them.

He's been a bunch of stuff too.

Tim McGraw is an actor.

Wasn't ready for that.

He's like unbelievable.

He's really good.

I mean, we could just go right back to talking about Taylor Sheridan shows now because his starring role in 1883 is like one of the best Sheridan-verse performances to date.

It's amazing, genuinely amazing.

What was your favorite out of all of them, 1883 or 1923?

1923.

Yeah.

I mean, obviously now, Land Man is

just, I think,

operating on another plane of existence.

But of the Yellowstone shows, 1923 is really, really, really great.

I'm so excited for season two.

I like them.

I can't wait.

They're all great.

And then Connie Britton, who's barely in this.

And I have a specific, specific spot later in the podcast to discuss this, but

playing coach's wife.

Yeah.

Yep.

Different actor as her husband.

She barely has any lines.

Her hairdo is different.

Yeah.

And not really a lot of correlation to the TV series where she becomes one of the great.

Yeah.

Mom-wife characters in the history of television.

You never would have guessed it from this movie.

I also have more thoughts coming up.

up.

All right, we'll save thoughts on that.

So,

oh, I messed up the Buzz Bissinger.

The book came out in 1990.

The team he follows, 1988.

Um, he was also cousins with Pete Berg, which is part of how this all happened.

So, 30 million dollar budget

made 62 million, did well, didn't do amazing.

Um, but I think a lot of people saw it, and then it led to um the TV series eventually.

Our guy, Raj, yeah,

Three and a half stars.

He loves story.

He loves characters.

He loves story.

Yeah.

The movie demonstrates the power of sports to involve us.

We don't live in Odessa and are watching a game played 16 years ago, and we get all wound up.

You're goddamn right, Roger Hubert.

I have no notes on that review for you.

Exactly what happened.

Great job.

Now it's time for the most rewatchable scene brought to you by Den of Thieves to Pantera.

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See Den of Thieves 2, Pantera, only in theaters, January 10th.

I just saw you wipe your nose.

Are you sick?

No, just have some allergies, I think.

The air quality here.

How many times were you sick in 2024?

Two.

I had COVID for the first time.

I got really sick at South by in March.

I came back.

I was quite sick from that trip.

And then I got COVID for the first time during the House of the Dragon run.

Absolute worst time involved.

One of the last COVID holdouts.

Okay.

Back to most rest watchable scene.

I really like the opening credits.

Just going to mention that.

First day of practice with the camera crews.

Yes.

Where we get Don's dad coming down to yell at him, throw him down, and completely embarrass him in front of a bunch of people.

And then we also get

Billy Bob.

And make no mistake about it, gentlemen.

We are in the business of protecting this town.

We're in the business of winning.

The expectations couldn't be any higher.

We will win state.

We will win state.

Can you be perfect?

Can you be perfect?

And you're like, wow, he's not going to top that speech in the movie.

And then he fucking blows by it much later in the movie.

But I love this whole like the camera cruise and you just get a feeling for the stakes.

It's very well done.

Yeah, the opening stretch of the movie is amazing.

Like you mentioned the opening credits.

I love, again, the montage nature of that stretch, not only because we're getting like the classic, you know, slam and Sammy radio calls, you're establishing the relationship between the community and the team.

You're getting like little nuggets,

$60,000 salary for Coach Gaines.

And should the money be going elsewhere in the school?

And wait, isn't the team part of the school?

Like, it's a perfect tonal setup.

And then you're meeting some of the kids.

Like, you get to see Winchell with his mom.

You get to see Booby training.

They walk into the stadium for practice and you see the list of all the state championships the team has won before.

So you understand without a single conversation, like what the expectations would be for this team in this place.

It's just like perfect tonally.

And I love too in the locker room,

the player dynamics, like the teammate dynamics are established so quickly.

You have Booby and Comer talking about Adidas versus Nike.

You have like the little bit of tension between Booby and Billingsley.

All of that is like before you get to like you're saying the Billingsley family fighting on the field and cutting back and forth between all of the interviews and like seeing what the players think of each other.

You really need that to understand what the dynamics are on the team.

So it's a great opening.

I'm also always a fan of the big board of the position players.

Yes.

The coach moving stuff.

And then at the end of the movie, you know, he's going to be like, all right, I'm going to take a pulling the name plates away.

Sad.

The

first game where we get some incredible music leading up to it, we get another excellent Billy Bob speech.

And unfortunately,

Booby gets hurt up 42-7.

Brutal.

Because fucking Chris Comer, that loser, couldn't find his helmet.

Terrible.

Tough one.

A scene that has been ripped off.

I'll say it.

I love Varsity Blues.

We've done on the Rewatchables, but they rip it off with the Lance Harbor injury.

Even though it's five years for this movie.

And then the Friday Night Lights TV show.

Yeah.

First episode.

Street.

They flip it with Jason Street, the quarterback, and...

And they take it to the nth degree in a much, much darker, darker

way to go.

Sorry, Craig.

Spoiler alert.

Next scene.

Billy Bob tells Winchell that he has to step up.

Yes.

I like a little coach kicking the QB.

Hey, I really need you.

And he gives him the whole speech with the end.

If you decide to accept that, you're going to seriously fly, son.

The thing that I love best about that scene, first of all, you have like the little series, right?

You get these vignettes with Mike.

You have like the pull and shoot sequence with the players.

So they're bonding.

It's actually like a kind of rare just slice of life, them hanging out out outside of practice or a game.

Then you have the practice yelling interview mashup sequence.

Then you have that quick little payphone sequence where we understand that there are other people in the family who are not there taking care of his mom.

Like he's like, your mom too, right?

He's alone.

And then we build to that Coach Gaines visit.

The thing I love best in that scene is Mike is holding like a toy car.

He's holding like a little Hot Wheel or something.

And it's this great little touch to just remind us that these are kids.

Like you had them saying, I don't feel, I don't feel 17 when they were out there in the pickup truck.

But then, you know, the childhood bedroom, the toy in your hand, it's like, yeah, you have the burden and the pressure of an entire town on your shoulders, but you're like a child.

And I love the little detail like that.

Yeah, it's a good point.

Chris Comer's breakout game.

Leading into the let's go montage for the season.

You always need that in a good sports movie.

Here comes Chris Comer.

Oh my God, I didn't realize he had it in him.

This is emotional.

Don's dad throws his ring out of the car.

Unbelievable scene.

Splitting with Billy Bob talking to Winchell again about curses.

Yep.

He has a couple great quotes.

There ain't much difference between winning and losing except for how the outside world treats you.

I like it.

Great one.

I believe that our only curses are the ones that are self-imposed.

You know what I'm saying?

We, all of us, dig our own holes.

I agree.

And as this is going on, Don's dad is just losing the back seat and whips the ring out.

You know what that is.

You know what that is?

That's a state championship.

I want a state championship.

Just calm down down.

Can't you touch it?

Can you touch that?

We're back on the air.

Can you touch that?

What the hell are you doing?

And poor Billingsley is just so upset.

Now he's searching for the ring.

For a second, it feels like it's going to be, what's that movie when the girl's head gets chopped off?

We did on the Hereditary.

He's pulled on the side of the road.

I'm like, oh my God, is this Hereditary going to happen again?

But we don't realize that he actually found the ring.

They do a nice little

save the moment for later.

That morning after conversation is fantastic when he plops the ring down and just that line from his dad, who is like

an alcoholic and an abusive father.

And the movie, I think, clearly is

holding multiple truths in its mind at once.

Right.

And this is part of why this is like an interesting thing to continue to explore.

There's a critique of like the characters like Charlie Billingsley who say, this is the only thing you're ever going to have.

Like it is forever.

It carries you forever.

Or the guy who comes up to Windshill at the burger joint and is like, can you take a picture with my baby?

This is it.

It's just babies and memories after this.

There's like a little bit of judgment of that, right?

That the idea that this is like your 17th year, your senior year of high school, your last year fighting for state is as good as it's ever going to get.

But then also there is like a embrace of how important that is at the same time.

And so that, that Charlie Donnie sequence in the car and then that next morning really captures that because it's not like they hug at the end of that.

Like Donnie's crying and he plops the ring down and he charges out.

So all of that is in there in that sequence, which I love.

Yeah, that scene has he gives their dad the ring back.

Booby watches the garbage collectors.

Yeah.

Booby packs up the locker room and then Booby gets in the car and cries.

And that's all.

How many times did you cry during the rewatch?

Not actually not really that much, weirdly.

Maybe just because I'm so familiar with the the beats of the story.

No tears left.

Exactly.

You had to save all your tears for round two in the NFL playoffs.

All right.

Come on.

The coin toss scene you wanted to talk about, because that's a really good scene, too.

And it just shows how stupid Texas football is.

It's like, yeah, we're going to do a coin toss.

It's just insane.

Like, it's just crazy.

I mean, I want to talk about it in a picking nitch, though.

It's hard to say picking nits from a story perspective because it is

happening.

How it actually happens.

Undisclosed trucker location.

It is, it's just so bizarre that something so consequential would be decided in that way and then even like building it's it's it's less uh less inane uh than the the the coin toss deciding which of the two of the three teams in the tie go but just like let's have a conversation about where we want to play the game instead of that being predetermined is so bizarre right imagine and that's the only time the book really really really dove into the race stuff in this town yeah and one of the only ways they would let Peterberg and the film crew even use some of the stuff in that town.

Was it like, hey, you're gonna, you're gonna make a sports movie, or are you gonna dive into all this other stuff?

Because it was such a big piece.

The coin, the where do we play the game?

Was the only real time they dive into, like, are the, what are we gonna have?

Are we gonna have white refs, black refs?

Are we gonna have a mix of both?

And that scene dives into it the most, but for the most part, they stay away from it.

Yeah, there's a little down Billingsley booby.

Yeah, and there's like the booster dinner early in the movie.

There's like a lot of

racism in that scene.

But in terms of it actually being like the core text of a stretch of the film, yeah, picking where the game is going to be and talking about who the officiating crew is going to be is

an outlier in the film compared to how prominent that is as a focus in the book.

Next scene I have, everyone gets on the bus for the Astrodome.

Booby shows up on crutches.

Yep.

Explosions in the skies.

Like, hold my beer.

Let us get back in.

I have that as Kid Cutty Pursuit of Happiness where Best Needle Drop.

I mean, you could have picked like five different spots, but this is probably the best one.

Uh, heading the first game, shots at everyone on the bus.

I feel like this is the TV series

I think was the most influenced by this sequence, where they were like, hey, as long as we have like this kind of scene every couple episodes, we're doing it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's, it is.

The tradition in the show, not only of the team bus, but then checking in with everybody else who is driving to a game and the fun, surprising pairings that you get, you know, like Tyra picking up Grandma Saracen, who is currently just thriving as Ethel on Landman.

That's a great point.

We should have mentioned that sooner.

Dude, Ethel,

spoiler alert for the most recent episode of Landman, for anyone who's not current, this has nothing to do with the story, so it's out of context.

But Ethel sitting in her old age home saying, just once more before I die, I want to dick in my face.

Everything,

larner, not being surprised to hear that at all.

She's like, I gotta need to redo their year-endless.

That is like the best TV moment.

That was the best quote.

That was the best quote of the show.

All right, so we have the game.

Yep.

I'm gonna skip to halftime.

Preacher gets pissed.

They're building the whole year.

He finally gets mad, goes nuts, gives his speech, and then Billy Bob's like, hold my beer.

Yeah.

Being perfect

is not about that scoreboard out there.

It's not about winning.

It's about you and your relationship to yourself and your family and your friends.

Being perfect

is about being able to look your friends in the eye

and know

that you didn't let them down

because you told them the truth.

And that truth is, is that you did everything that you could.

There wasn't one more thing that you could have

Can you live in that moment as best you can with clear eyes

and love in your heart?

With joy in your heart.

If you can do that, gentlemen,

then you're perfect.

And he does his big speech, which apparently was improvised the night before.

Great night.

And they had it written differently.

And then he was just something had happened to him in his personal life.

And

so many good stuff in this, but being perfect is about being able to look your friends in the eye and know that you didn't let them down because you told them the truth.

You and I have had, we've said this to each other for a long time.

I want you to take a moment.

I want you to look each other in the eyes, put each other in your hearts forever.

He's just running, running on.

I want you to think about Boobie Miles.

He's your brother.

He's right there.

His eyes are welling up.

And then, boys, my heart is full.

My heart is full.

If you're going Kyle Chandler versus Billy Bob,

this makes it tough to not make a Billy Bob case.

I strongly disagree.

With respect for this movie and respect for this podcast, it's just not close.

And frankly, why?

Tell me why.

Well, you just love Kyle Chandler.

Well, he's like one of the five sexiest men that was ever lived.

You got to strip that apart.

Come on.

You know, I love Eric Taylor's sad eyes.

They're both great.

But I, okay, here's my actual case.

I have two main points here.

One, the fact that the ingredients for clear eyes, full hearts, can't lose are present here.

Like clear eyes and love in your heart with joy in your heart.

It's it's clearly the cornerstones, the foundation on which clear eyes full hearts will be built.

But games doesn't put it together?

Exactly.

It's like you have, and now I think I'll acknowledge that this is one of those things where like you can't not think about the thing you've seen subsequently when you return to the film.

It's not like that's in your mind in 2004 because it hasn't happened yet.

But now, going back, I think that the Coach Taylor locker room speeches are like their own genre of magic.

They're the thing that people would point to if you were talking about a great speech from a coach.

But here's the other thing, then.

This is the only good Coach Gaines speech in the movie.

And that's a, I think that's a problem.

He has a lot on the first day of practice.

But, but the messages, I think, in the, in the speech, like this actually feels like this is Coach Taylor right here.

These are the ingredients that they're going to build Coach Taylor around, but this isn't really Coach Gaines the entire time.

You have, like you, like you mentioned, that great line about winning and losing and what really are the differences.

But I'm tipping my hand a little bit for a take I have coming later.

But like a lot of the things that Coach Gaines says to the team, I think are like of a different variety.

And my assumption for why that is is because you're building dramatic tension in the film for how

necessary this feels at halftime of the championship game as like a bomb.

The players need it.

They need some sort of healing little ray of hope from the coach.

They need to understand not only that he believes in them, but that it's okay, that it's okay if they lose, which they will.

But this isn't really his energy throughout the whole movie.

Like he's the guy pulling his players to the sidelines saying, are you the village idiot?

So it is coach taylor all the time it's only coach gains in the climax and i think that tips it forever to coach taylor sorry

i'm not even going to argue with you about this

the big comeback by the way this whole from halftime on is my most rewatchable this is just if this was on tv and i'm like

81 trojan horse

the big comeback we get a shady fourth down pass leads to the td

When it bounces and the refs screw on it.

We get a kickoff return TD.

Oh, there's hope.

We get Chavez with the pick six.

We get the

Philly special.

I guess it wasn't the pick six because it sets up the Philly special to Winchell.

Yeah.

And then we get a huge fourth down stop from the undersized tiny team leading to...

I right wiggle 34 Switchblade for the state championship.

They put Switchblade in there.

Yeah.

Flagging the play.

Classic swerve.

We've seen this in a couple sports movies.

They got to run the amazing last play again.

Fall yard short.

Everyone cries.

Everyone's despondent.

So good.

But Don's dad is finally proud of Don.

Hugslam.

Beautiful.

They do this exact same thing with Saracen in the show, where he's running, and you think initially from the angle that he crossed the plane, and then you realize he came up just short.

It's so good.

It's like they couldn't resist doing it again.

The

sequence right before that final winch will play, the Billingsley run.

I mean, this is like unrivaled in terms of its inanity that you don't even care is a name.

Like

he's dislocated his shoulder.

Right.

And he gets hit by 90%.

He has fumbled all year long.

Like one of the through lines of the movie is that he cannot hold on to the ball.

And so you know before it even happens.

that his big moment will be holding on to the ball when it counts as they pop his shoulder back into place.

And then that like hold that holding call coming in and running it back is so genius because it gives you both things.

It gives you that

I did it.

Like I crossed the threshold moment for Billingsley, but still puts the team in dire peril, which is just like exactly where you need it to be.

It's great.

It's great.

So you have the game?

I think it's, yeah, I think it's either, oh, it's tough.

It's either halftime and the second half of the game, or I do really like the Billingsley family car scene.

That's great.

I think the only, like, the only things that you didn't have that I would even put in the consideration list are like that first, the first scene at the burger joint.

That's great.

And like, that's the kind of stuff that, yeah, is constant in the show.

Like, again, just in the community.

And I think that

the inner cutting of the booster dinner and the party.

I really love that stretch.

I mean, the whole, the beginning of the movie is just, is so good.

But yeah, it's got to be, it's got to be halftime in the second half of the game.

Yeah, it kind of has to be.

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So,

what's the most 2004 thing about this movie?

Ooh, I'm going to give you

the two things in the finals.

Okay.

The Astrodome.

Yeah.

Or the football hits.

Yeah.

This was like right near the end of the Tom Jackson screaming jacked up after they show the top five guys getting knocked unconscious.

This is the EA Sports Madden, like just people getting crushed.

And you actually watch this when you, when you've seen this movie a couple of times, there's like 45 borderline beheadings.

Oh my God.

Or clotheslines where it just, it just seems like people are going to be carried off left and right.

Yeah.

And I just don't think they would make a movie that way now.

Interesting.

2024.

Yeah.

I think that I think you're right.

It's the combination of it being said in 88 and released in 04.

That's like very, very rich.

Varsity Blues has it too.

Varsity Blues has a lot of like jacked up stuff.

Woodstage the best.

The football scenes are really good.

Yeah.

I would say like nine out of 10.

They're about longest yard is still my favorite for football scenes, but this is way up there.

I think he think Peter Berg did a great job.

He took it really seriously.

They did some cheat stuff where they actually filmed real games and then they tried to match the uniforms to the stuff in the game so it looked great.

Yeah.

Like really all of it was super savvy.

The giant home of the Permian Panthers sign with all you mentioned earlier with the years that they won.

I love those in movies.

What do you have for what stage is the best?

Because I have a bunch.

Let's see.

I mean, you know, just obviously broadly at the most macro level, high school football is a religious text in a Texas story.

I mean, it's tough to top.

And I think the combo of like, again, Slam and Sammy and Ratliff Stadium, which is where the team actually plays,

capturing that pressure on the players and the fact that they're like they're gods, they're heroes, but they're also these just kids who are crumbling under the weight of expectations.

I love that I Don't Feel 17 line, uh, and that like longing, but also tragedy of the idea that like it's 17 is the best it's ever going to get.

That's that's broadly my winner.

Um, wait, hold on, can we stay on that for a second?

Please, because that's, I should have hit that harder at the top of the, it's obviously the theme of the movie.

It's also a really good theme for a movie

that

this is

it, it's never going to get better than right here.

And we've seen it in some sports movies.

And they usually have the character

who was now in their 30s and has two kids and was on the champion.

They always loved that.

It never really worked.

That guy never becomes like, oh, he's now a state senator.

Or, oh, now he owns a couple of businesses.

Things have worked out great.

It's always like he's just kind of looking longingly at these 17-year-olds like, oh man, that really was the peak of my life.

But even like movies, other, like Dazed and Confused, it was a theme that movie too.

Like, this is kind of it.

Yeah.

For Randy, for, for Randy Floyd.

Well, and the thing that's so potent about it in this,

not just this movie, but the show, like a story like this, is that it's supposed to be true for the kids.

Like it's supposed to be a thing that they're thinking about it, but it's also like it's, it's not just internal, it's really external.

Yeah.

They're constantly being reminded that how other people feel is also on them.

It's not just about like securing their own happiness and their own memories.

It's that like they have the burden of ensuring that an entire town feels like it has purpose and like fulfillment.

And what would that feel like ever, let alone when you're 17 and you're thinking about whether like your mom is okay at home taking her pills?

Like that's just a very dramatically compelling.

And that's the thing ultimately where like having, like you said earlier, more room in a season of TV than in a movie.

Like that is the thing specifically that they were able to mine at, I think, a depth that they just definitely can't do in two hours, but still like tonally, they're able to establish it very effectively here.

All the Right Moves, which came out in 83.

Yep.

And

that was the first time I'd really seen something dive into that in that way where it was like,

this team, we've never beaten these guys.

We haven't beaten them in eight years.

If you beat these guys, you're immortal in this town.

And oh, by the way, when you graduate high school, if you don't go to college, there's your job.

Your uncle's, your dad, you're going to be working at that mill right there.

So it's never, ever going to get better than this right now.

And I don't know.

It's a good sports movie theme we've seen over and over again.

We mentioned the quick cut filmmaking.

Yep.

Oh, go ahead.

You had more.

We've hit a lot of mine.

Tim McGraw, actor,

sensational, James Dutton, great character.

Tension on the team.

You know, I think I actually wish there were more of this.

We get a little bit of that for Booby Billingsley.

It is for sure.

Yeah, because you built, you pick up right with the booby Billingsley tension with Smash and Riggins like immediately in the pilot of the show.

So it would be, it would be fun if there were more time for that, but that's obviously important because then it builds toward the great little moment where, you know, Booby gives Donnie his nameplate and he's like, I think it's going to be worth a lot of money.

And you're waiting for Donnie to tell him to fuck off.

And he's like, I bet it will.

And your heart just melts.

It's like, great.

You know, a team overcoming adversity and then that team coming up short.

Like we talked about already.

It's just absolutely magical.

Meddling boosters is something we've also already already hit, but is a definite what's aged the best.

I mean, that is just tremendous.

Montages, I okay, you know what else?

Dallas Carter's approach, and to be clear, not

the ineligible player that led to their championship and season being vacated in real life, but they never punt, they never kick, they go for it on fourth, they go for

what's age the best.

This is like a great modern, analytically driven approach.

I really got a kick out of revisiting that.

That's funny.

I

had a couple more.

Lee Jackson played preacher.

Yep.

Only IMDb credit ever.

Never in anything else.

He was a University of Texas linebacker from 98 to 2002.

Then speaking of IMDb, Billy Bob and Lucas Black, they were together in Sling.

They played, yeah.

So they had the connection from that.

They were also in all the pretty horses.

What's aged the best for me?

I love when it goes badly for the coach and he gets back home and there's all the for sale signs.

Incredible front lawn it's works they did in all the right moves too it always works i like uh coach gains and and and uh preacher how is it out there they're fast they're big they're dirty plus they're fast you said that

and then uh you mentioned the guy at the diner

or the outdoor or wherever they were, the guy with the baby take a picture and he goes, don't waste a second of it.

Before you know it's done, nothing but babies and memories.

Babies and memories.

Good name for a sports bar.

I like Booby's MRI when he's distrustful of the guy from Midland, too.

I just thought that was accurate.

Anyway, the Fortune 3 Clap Award for most giftable moment, I think is also the Great Shock Order Award for Most Cinematic Shot.

Okay.

Don and Mike slumped over the one-yard line.

Just a complete despondence, despair.

Great one.

I took a picture of it, and I'm going to mail it to you after the Ravens get eliminated in round two.

Thanks.

Probably like a week later, though.

A week later.

Depending on how many points you have.

I appreciate it.

Yeah.

They're drenched in blood.

Hopefully, I won't be.

The proper response is: Your team's not in the playoffs.

You could have just said that back to me.

Your team is

3 and 13.

Unlike you, I'm not a heartless monster.

Also,

you're going to get too good of a draft pick for me to be rude to you right now.

I can't believe you guys get to rebuild like this.

Assuming our dumbass team doesn't beat Buffalo.

The Den of Thieves Benny Hana Award for scene stealing location.

Would you go Astrodome?

The Astrodome, just an incredibly important sports movie location.

I'm going undisclosed truck stop for the coin.

Wow, that's a great choice.

I love it.

It's just so funny to me that they're like, we can't tell you where we are.

And then there are visible signs.

And what's going to happen everywhere?

But are people going to

show up there?

What's going to happen?

I guess.

Bitcoin or burger were a best use of food to drink.

Probably Mike's burger in the beginning because it made me hungry.

Okay.

When the guy comes over, he's eating that burger.

It's just like looking at

Texas cheeseburger.

What do you have?

All right, I have two other candidates for you.

One would be the car

chocolate milk cartons and breakfast burritos in front of the 7-Eleven.

And then the cop pulls up and he's like, you're going to win state.

But I think this is actually the winner.

Okay.

The foundation on which the Rally Girl plot lines and Friday Night Lights were built.

Karen's rice crispy model of Billingsley.

Oh,

that's got to be the winner.

Well,

we only get to do this category when you're on the podcast.

Oh.

The Mallory Rubin Award for did this movie need a better sex scene?

This is a movie where

a very fanatical fan of the team gets Winchell in a laundry room and has sex with him.

Yeah.

Kind of bullies them into it.

I don't know.

I don't know if you would have gone further.

Is there a different sex scene?

What's the move?

Thanks for asking.

So no question, this movie needs a better sex scene.

Could it have been opening earlier on the Mike Melissa sex scene instead of just cutting to Lucas Black panting into the bathroom mirror?

Maybe.

Could it have been seeing how Donnie rewarded Karen for the Rice Krispie Treat model?

Possibly.

Could it have been seeing what Flippy and Charlie Billingsley were up to before Maria and Donnie came home and started to fuck on the couch?

How'd she hear her name Flippy, Bill?

I'd like to know.

Could it be Preacher Man taking someone to church?

It could be any of those, but it's not.

Here's the actual pick:

it's Coach Gaines and his wife, Sharon.

We need a sex scene between the Gaineses because those moments between Eric and Tammy in the television show are such an essential part of why when people talk about that show, they're like, yeah, it's a great sports show.

It's a great high school drama.

What it really is is like the best portrayal of a marriage in the history of TV.

And you get just none of that in the movie.

You have like the little moment in the parking lot where they run into the boosters.

You have the cute little like kissing through the chain link fence after the loss.

We need to see these two in bed together.

We do.

We get to leave point.

We need to see them in bed together cuddling.

Cause like when she sits down and he's watching tape and he's prepping for the Carter game and she's like, let's move to Alaska.

You get that little glimpse of what their domestic life is like.

She's waiting by the for sale signs on the porch when he gets home.

We need to be in bed with them.

Have to have it.

It's just got to be in there.

If they made the movie again, we'd have that, I think, no doubt.

So I had that in What's Age the Worst, how they I wrote the coach-wife marriage.

They just punted on it.

Yeah.

Where was the Connie Britton heat check scene?

So you're saying you'd even go further and have the sex scene.

So in the oral history we did at Grand Land,

Peter Berg's talking about how he's trying to convince Connie Britton to be in the TV show.

And this is what he said.

Connie Britton's role in the movie was sort of pretty wife clapping in the stands, which which is about the shittiest job an actress can have.

At least Talia Shire got to own a pet store and go ice skating with Rocky.

So then Connie Britton said, Pete got in touch with him.

Why don't you play this part?

I was like, no way.

The only thing worse than playing a nothing part in a movie is playing it for years and years on TV.

So Pete Berg said, she said, I was out of my mind.

I told her, I promise we'll create a character.

We'll give you a job.

We'll give you dimension.

We'll give you a real voice.

And they did.

and she became one of the best characters that marriage was fantastic and it was the key to the show you would never know that from this movie that that was going to happen i i don't think there's any question sometimes we rip off like 15 what's age the worst and it's like oh toss up i don't think there's any question that it's this keeping keeping uh coach taylor's wife on the bench for a two-hour movie and just not even running a play for her because like even when you watch it the first time you're kind of like this is a nothing part and a nothing character this is just sort of like weird just to establish that he has a loving wife and support at home and like a family where if the town runs them out and the kids like, do we have to move again?

There's some sort of like direct personal consequence.

That's like it.

That's the only reason to have them in the movie at all.

Yeah.

So the first time you see it, you're like, eh,

but.

Coming back to the movie after Tammy Taylor has blown us away for five seasons.

It's one of the best performances like ever on TV.

And like you said, one of the most memorable characters.

This is just kind of like unforgivable.

It's really damning.

You know what?

This is, this is a sports movie issue over and over again with girlfriends and wives.

They just, if they didn't really know what to do with them, they just kind of put them on the side and then cut to them during a big game.

Yeah.

You're leading me to.

That easily could have been for me the Butch's Girlfriend Award for Week Wake in the Film.

Yeah.

But that's not what I had.

Okay.

I combined it with the Vincent Chase award for, are we sure this character was actually good at his job?

I have a feeling you have some thoughts on this as well.

Coach Gaines, maybe just a bad coach.

This is my hottest take, but maybe it's not that hot.

So I, just stuff I wrote down, you might have more.

First day of practices.

Let's the starting fullback just get the shit beaten out of him on his, on the field by his dad.

Crazy.

Maybe ban the dad from practice.

Yeah.

Ludicrous.

Guys abusing your starting fullback.

First game, if Chris Comer was the backup to the backup and he couldn't find his helmet when you're at 42-7 with 90 seconds left, maybe put in the second string running back.

You have a giant Texas football team.

This drives me crazy.

This drives me crazy.

Put in Wilson the second string, put in Billingsley.

You're at 35, call timeout.

Anything other than putting Booby back in.

Anything.

And we should say, like, I don't know if you want to talk about the self-sword, but this is not how Booby got hurt in real life.

He got hurt in a preseason scrimmage, his leg getting like trapped in the turf.

This is movie only.

Movie only.

Movie only.

And then after the game, he tells the team Booby's fine.

This is like, I wrote this in all caps.

Lying to the team in this situation is deranged.

Boobie's going to be fine.

Booby's going to be fine.

He'll be back in a week.

What is the point of telling this lie?

What is the point of this?

This is like, I can't wrap my mind around this.

This is deranged.

This is pathological.

Why doesn't he try to find any information about Booby's knee from that point on?

Crazy.

Doesn't crazy.

Hey, you're the most powerful guy in town.

You're the football coach.

You have all these boosters.

You don't have one medical booster.

There's not one person to be like, hey, something's going on with Booby's knee.

We got to get the best doctor possible.

Is there somebody we can fly in?

Right.

We got to get an MRI immediately.

He's acting like Booby had COVID or something.

Is Booby's COVID done yet?

No, we don't know yet.

Maybe one more day.

It's like, this fucking knee.

This guy's going to college next year.

Where are the scouts calling, finding out more about Booby's knee?

The movie just kind of, yeah, I guess they only had two hours.

This drives me crazy because, like, again, a movie I love, but this just doesn't make sense.

And it's also like, we have the scene before he lies to the team, but after the injury, where like the team doctor, one of the assistants, is like, it's definitely like a tear.

So he knows.

And yet he's content to let Booby and LV lie to him multiple times when they're like, yeah, we're fine.

Brace on?

We're fine.

Yeah, brace on.

Let's try it in game six.

Why is he not insisting that he has surgery for the good of his life?

Because we get that little scene early in the movie where it's Coach and his wife, Sharon, and L V and Booby.

It is the four of them having a family dinner.

And he's like, everything that happens to you this year, you deserve.

That is there to tell us one thing, that he genuinely cares about this kid and that there's a closeness between these families that transcends whatever happens on the field.

And so, and then he doesn't back up any of it.

And then he's giving the speeches to like Winchell about like trying to get, trying to get, elevate those guys.

And it's like, you just like sent Booby out in the side.

But my guess is this was probably based on some real life stuff.

And I haven't read the book in a while, but I'm sure,

you know.

Bizarre.

I don't know why it took an extra game to start airing it out with Mike Winchell.

I don't don't know why he didn't play Preacher at tight end, at least on like third and short.

Preacher was 6'8, 490 pounds, and was Miles Garrett.

Just like maybe, maybe have two plays on offense.

It's high school.

The best guys play both ways.

I don't understand why he didn't have more info on Booby's knee before he throws him in in the last game, doesn't play him for three and a half quarters, brings him in, and then immediately runs two sweeps on him where he's clearly hurt in the first sweep.

He's like, run it back.

What could go wrong?

Deranged.

And then you mentioned earlier, the Billings League.

So my fullback has a separated shoulder.

Here's my idea for a trick play

against a much bigger Dallas Carter team.

Surprise handoff and just try to knock off nine of these guys with your injured shoulder.

That was his trick play.

And I love the way that they cut to him when they're popping Donnie's shoulder back in and he's like nodding.

Yeah.

It's like, yeah, pop it back in.

What other coach Kane's nitpicks did you have?

Well, you hit almost all of them.

I think there's like a lot of Mike stuff and just how he's coaching Winchell that puts him into the actually is in the again with the respect to the real coach, like in the fictional portrayal, like, Are We Sure, He's a Good Coach, Camp.

Everybody, after the booby injury is like, You designed your entire offense and your entire team around one player, you didn't get anyone else ready to really have to carry the load.

And then the way he's coaching up Mike is by calling him a village idiot in game two.

Yeah.

When Mike is crying and saying, My mind's not right, and he clearly needs help.

We do get the touching exchange,

as you noted, but we also get him,

we get Coach Gates saying,

your mom, you know, you're going to have to leave her.

You're going to have to leave her.

It's like, what?

This is your advice for this kid who is just like falling apart in front of you.

I also think

on the are we sure he's a good coach front, it is bizarre.

This would be for the whole coaching staff, not just the head coach.

It is insane and bizarre to me that they seem astonished that their third string running back, third string running back on a potential favorite to win state in Texas is a star.

And they're like astonished that he's got speed and can run.

It's just, I had that as a nitpick later, but it felt appropriate to hit it here.

Just bizarre.

And he's like downright hysterical.

during the Midland halftime rant, which again is part of why I have to take him down below Coach Taylor for like the quality of the the pep talks it's just not it's just not the same just not the same so that was yeah that so you had that as weakest link that was my hottest take my weakest link is

not establishing other high school students in the movie again i acknowledge that there's no room for that yeah but i think

20 minutes yeah but like you the thing that makes friday night lights the show magical is really like

the Landry's with respect to his future career as a kicker, the Julie's, the Tyras, Tyras, the Lila's, the Becky's, like it, it helps make these characters real people and like their lives feel full.

And it also helps make it a high school story, not just a sports story.

I see what you're doing.

You need it.

You need it.

No, I see what you're doing.

You're worried as the years pass, the movie is going to start grabbing real estate from the TV show.

So you're doing some subtle, just so everybody knows, don't touch the goat over here.

Yeah, the movie's aging great, but just be careful.

There's room for both.

There's room for both.

What's aged the worst?

Anytime I see based on a true story, it's like, all right, here we go.

Okay.

Interesting.

Based on a true story, it just means, hey, some of this stuff might have happened and then we're going to take a lot of liberties.

They actually stay pretty close to the true story in this one.

Connie Britton's hair.

It's the 80s, though.

So it's set in 88.

Doesn't it feel like the 80s appropriate hair?

I get it.

But I know it totally does.

It totally does.

But I just, I'm watching her like, oh, man, I just can't wait till she's Coach Taylor's wife

with more modern hairdo.

Man, this one really bugs me.

Derek Luke was 30 years old during the filming.

Yeah.

He's great, though.

But he's great.

He's great.

He's fantastic.

He's booby.

Too old.

Putting in the Andrea Zuckerman role.

If you're in your 30s, you can't play a high school kid.

Tell that to the cast of the Outer Banks.

Well, that's another example.

Movie mustache buddy Garrity.

Is he belonging to what's age the best or what's age the worst?

I think this is the rare one where you could put him in both because when you see him in the movie, you're like, yeah, we wouldn't have gotten him as buddy without this.

And so I think we just have no choice but to be grateful.

But it's not buddy.

You know, it's just not the same as buddy because he has like three scenes.

I do love the mustache, though.

I think the mustache is great.

My last one is Don's Dad interrupting the hookup.

It's really grim.

You've really got to be a bitch.

He's really kind of like, he's really getting skeevy in that one.

They go pretty far.

What did you have for WhatsApp the worst, Annie?

Let's see.

We already talked about Connie Britton.

Just medical treatments.

You know, this gets to what we were just discussing from the Coach Gaines perspective, but more broadly,

not immediately.

having surgery, trying to play again on the knee.

It's just all true.

In 2024, you'd be googling the symptoms and

you wouldn't just be like, oh, when's my knee gonna be better?

It's 88.

Like,

it's not a the odds of coming back at full strength, obviously, are not the same in 88 as they would be today, but it's not like surgery for reconstructive knee surgery would have been unthinkable or rare.

So it's just very, very strange.

Um, no, that is a good what stage the worst, though, because now the torn acl you'd fix it and you'd probably be the same or close to the same.

But in 88,

you were definitely going to be different.

Like you were knee-braced for the rest of your career type of thing.

Yeah.

No instant replay because there are like really a number of plays where they have that in high school.

It's just the fact that in a sports movie, you're like, oh man.

And of course, they end up incorporating that effectively into the dramatic tension of the film.

But like that conversation about did Winchell break the plane?

It's like, well, yeah, he did.

You could just, you could just tell he did.

Yeah.

That, that, you know, the fourth quarter in completion that you mentioned already that was rule to catch that clearly bounces.

Like we cut to people watching it on TV at home.

They know it's a drop.

So then the fact that they can't fix it in the game, bummer.

All right, I got one that you might think is controversial because you praised his performance earlier.

Lucas Black is like the leading kid.

I don't know.

I don't know.

I think we could have done better.

I do.

Sorry.

I love Tokyo Drift weirdly, but sorry.

Yeah, I think I'm blinded by Tokyo Drift because I like him in that movie.

And when he returns to the fast franchise.

Yeah, yeah.

Could we have done better?

See,

the one I would have rethought was,

I like Jay Hernandez, but he just seems too small for me as Chavez.

Maybe that was the point.

He was an undersized linebacker, but he's really, I mean, there's one scene when he's next to Preacher and Preacher just seems like a foot and a half taller.

It's also just bizarre because Preacher and Chavez are like two of the five players who get updates on their life at the end, but they have like...

four and a half minutes of total screen time between them.

Like they're not really characters.

Obviously they are in the book, but in the movie, they're like, you know just not at the the winchell billingsley well but do you think the winchell saracen maybe the quarterback on the 88 team was a little like that like you wouldn't have thought he was the quarterback a little undersized that must have been sure yeah i mean obviously i think in terms of the the the comps are like fairly clear in terms of the characters, right?

Like Winchell's Saracen.

Winchell's mom is Saracen's grandma.

Booby is Smash.

Billingsley is Riggins.

John is buddy.

Gary's Eric.

Sharon's Tammy, et cetera.

But

the performance,

so I think him being like a doubted guy who has confidence issues and isn't the star is appropriate.

That all makes sense.

They built the offense around Booby.

Obviously, Saracen's coming in as like the backup and then becomes QB1.

So it makes more sense in that context.

But I think they establish how like your quarterback wouldn't have been the alpha guy.

It's not really the character.

It's just the performance.

Like is not, I don't know.

I feel like Garrett Hedland and Derek Luke are like at just a different level in the movie.

I have a spot for this in Recasting Couch later.

Okay.

Over acting award,

Ruffle Hannah Rubinik Partridge.

I didn't really have one.

I thought the acting was pretty good.

I agree.

I couldn't think of anyone for this.

I also can't think of a better title for the movie.

No, no, no way.

Can you dig it award for Most Memorable Core?

We mentioned.

a slew of them.

It's probably nothing but babies and memories, right?

I think I would put out another candidate, Billingsley saying to Winchell at the burger joint, we're going to get laid, we're going to get drunk, and we're going to win state, but not tonight.

That is iconic.

That is a great one.

All right, we're going to take one more break and then we'll hit the rest of the categories.

This episode is brought to you by Warner Brothers Pictures.

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Subject to credit approval, Apple Card issued by goldman sachs bank usa salt lake city branch variable aprs for apple card range from 18.24 percent to 28.49 percent based on credit worthiness rates as of july 1st 2025 terms and more at applecard.com all right the cr thinks luke wilson could have been harrison ford hottest takeaward so you kind of gave it

yeah what's yours

i think billy bob should have played the coach in the tv show i think it's a better move for his career Come on.

All right.

Let me go through his career.

So he's an A-lister in 2004.

Here's what he does from 06 on.

Again, the point of this is this is the hottest take.

School for Scoundrels, The Astronaut Farmer, Mr.

Woodcock, Eagle Eye, The Informers, The Smell of Success, Deadly Creatures.

By 2010, he's in Faster with the Rock playing cop.

I just think it works out better if he's on a beloved NBC show for five years

playing Coach Taylor.

From his perspective, sure, but you want to rob the world of Kyle Chandler as Eric Taylor?

I don't.

I am speaking sure

purely as Billy Bob's career strategist.

In retrospect, better for him to be on the TV show.

Sure.

I would like to believe that Billy Bob would not want to deprive us of Eric Taylor and Kyle Chandler.

And he would say, I'm willing to languish.

I knew

until I can return triumphantly to your Texas screens as Tommy Norris and shriek in horror every time.

Maybe that's why he didn't do it.

Angela FaceTimes me.

It all worked out.

Casting what ifs.

So I mentioned how Brian Grazer kept the rights.

Alan J.

Pekula,

who's directed a couple of rewatchables, was planning to direct this film in the mid-90s.

He died in 1998.

That didn't happen.

John Abnett, who is a pretty well-known director back then, he had a big run at it.

Richard Link later

was all in, wrote the script.

They had a budget.

And then I guess it was too expensive.

That got pulled.

And then it eventually led to Peter Berg.

But there's apparently like seven different versions of this before it got there.

Garrett Hedland moved to L.A., was in there for a month and won roles in Troy and Friday Night Lights.

Pretty good.

I've been in L.A.

for like four weeks, not bad.

I wasn't satisfied with the casting what if, so I texted Peter Berg and I was like, Can you give me one casting what if from the movie that nobody knows?

And he's like, There's a great one.

Don's dad,

the person that he tried to get was James Hetfield from Metallica.

Holy shit.

Yeah.

And he said, It's a crazy, it's a crazy story, but it didn't, it didn't happen.

And then Tim McGraw was great.

So it worked out.

Interesting.

James Hetfield who does who's by the way doesn't act why did he so he wanted a musician no matter what that's something about James Hetfield's energy he thought would be the right guy for Don Billingsley's dad that's a great one what a nugget great casting winniff incredible sometimes you got to go off the internet and go right to the right of the source look at you I love it the the the link later

version of this is really interesting to think about he's a he's an incredible filmmaker it's just a different movie it becomes a Texas it becomes way more personal.

I don't know how it goes.

Yeah.

I'm like intrigued, and I think we would have loved it.

You're right.

It would be totally different.

But like, think of how you feel about everybody wants some.

Right.

Like the funny person.

Well, that version of that award.

We would have gone that version.

Yeah.

It would have been fun.

Best That Guy Award.

I feel like you and five other people are the only people who know Buddy Garrity's name is Brad Leland.

Brad Leland, sure.

The icon.

I think Buddy Garrity is the best that guy because I see him in anything.

I'm like, Buddy Garrity.

I don't think of him as Bradley Lynn.

I guess

that's the winner.

I went, just because he is Buddy Garrity always to me, I went with Timothy F.

Crowley, who is the official in the championship game, but is, of course, coached Crowley on Eric's staff in the TV show.

He's another one who appeared in a lot of films.

And when I saw him, I was like, oh my God, that guy, Coach Crowley.

Really good.

Deion Waiter's a word.

Buddy Garrity's eligible.

Former Permian player coming in for the baby pick.

Oh, yeah.

Girl who seduces Mike Winchell

or Flippy.

Flippy.

Good old Flippy.

Or girl who is about to have sex with Don Billingsley and then it doesn't happen.

I think those are all the candidates.

Unless you want to go anyone with the coin flip.

Wild to realize that's Amber Heard.

Hmm.

I

like your

burger joint guy idea.

Yeah, I think he wins.

Yeah.

Remember every minute of it.

Babies and memories.

Don't waste a second.

Yeah, that's a good one.

Recasting Couch Director City.

So

I'm actually, I had the Lucas Black character down,

but I couldn't think of anybody in that age range.

Yeah.

And what I realized was that this would have been an amazing mid-90s Matt Damon part.

Oh.

Like a 1993

school Tieser Matt Damon

as Winchell, but he was too old by the time they made this movie.

But it was whoever Matt Damon was in 2003,

I think might have been the move.

Interesting.

I like it.

I think, like, one thing that feels really true to me based on where these actors were in their careers when the movie came out, and then also, of course, the way the show is cast, is like,

I think they have to be unknowns.

When they cast the new show, they have to be unknowns.

I couldn't agree more.

Yeah, it's important.

Collinsworth, Romo, or someone else for the director's commentary.

Who do you have?

It's hard to channel Chris's spirit, you know, see our spirit when he's not here.

I think I was able to really like clearly feel

and hear Collinsworth when Booby got hurt, though.

Like, oh, Mike, you just hate to see it.

I hate to see it, Mike.

The game's secured.

It's a blowout.

The backouts are looking for some reps.

Oh, Chris Comer's got to find this helmet, Mike.

He's just got to find it.

Yeah, I was thinking Chris Collinsworth talking about Preacher would have been really funny.

Oh, yeah.

I want you to know why.

He's being double teamed, Mike.

Every game, these guys are huge.

Every play, he's killing these guys.

Half-ass internet research.

There's cameos in this movie from Roy Williams, the receiver.

Yep.

Ty Law.

There's a highlight of a keep to leave at some point when they're splicing highlights.

Yep.

The real Booby Miles plays a Permian assistant.

You can see him next to Coach Gaines during the big halftime speech.

Saw that happen.

Tweaks from real life.

Boobie Miles was actually a fullback

in real life.

Right.

Don Billingsley's father, Charlie, lost the finals in 1968.

Oh, man.

So what did he throw out the window if not the state ring?

Number two ring.

Real booby got hurt in a preseason game.

You mentioned that.

And then there's a million differences with how the 88 season went, that I'm not going to go through all of them.

The most interesting one was Carter High.

You mentioned that they had their tournament revoked or their title revoked.

So the team that they played in the finals was Converse Judson.

Yep.

And they ended up being the state champion.

So Permian actually could have been.

And then Permian did win the next year.

Then

there's some stuff with how Permian was portrayed in the movie compared to it's a much bigger, robust town in real life, I think.

Right, Odessa.

Yeah.

Yep.

And then we mentioned the racism stuff too.

Berg was so obsessed with the football scenes that.

He spent several weekends following Permian and an Austin team called Westlake High

just to

soak in everything and then try to put as much as possible in the movie.

And then there's a kind of a bummer of a story about Brian Chavez because he went to Harvard, got his law degree, moved back to Odessa,

and then ended up in this whole thing where he ended up in this huge fight.

He got a felony.

He had to give up his license for a little bit.

And now he's back and it's all good.

But it was a big story at the time because when it happened, the movie had happened, the TV show had happened.

Right.

Apex Mountain.

Friday Night Lights as a property.

No, come on.

Next.

This is not up for discussion.

It isn't.

You're trolling.

You don't, I know you don't believe this.

I don't.

Okay.

Billy Bob Thornton.

No.

It's going to be Landman.

With apologies to this and Sling Blade and Monsters Ball, let's just

carve out the necessary turf here for Landman.

It's dialogue.

Like, that wasn't Sunday morning sex.

That was angry Saturday night sex.

Great stuff.

Peter Berg.

No.

No.

But I think it's actually the TV series putting that together.

Yep.

Was such a hard achievement to pull off.

And then all the ways that show almost died.

And it should have died after

its first season.

I remember writing,

I wrote about this in the magazine piece I did that year.

Wrote a magazine column about it because it seemed like it was going to get canceled.

And I had stopped watching it like everybody else because it was pre-streaming.

And if you didn't watch, you know, if you felt like the show was going to get canceled or you missed the first two episodes, it was really hard to jump into a show and the show didn't do well.

And then that summer, there was some rerun stuff.

A friend of mine got me these Japanese DVDs that I watched that summer.

caught up and then i was like we can't get this the show has to come back it came back writer strike.

Probably should have been canceled after the writer's strike because it had a bad second season, which we don't talk about.

Right.

But three, four, and five are amazing.

Three, four, and five.

They also

nailed,

we have to graduate some of these guys and bring new people in.

Are the new people going to hold up to the old people?

And they have this new cast that included Michael B.

Jordan.

So everything he did with that show, I think.

He's had a really good career.

He's directed a lot of big movies.

He's made a lot of money.

But I still, I would think he would agree that the show is

the apex.

I mean, I think because they're so proximate to each other time-wise, like you could just lump it all together, but the property.

Yeah, the property.

Like, I agree.

I think that, you know, season one of Friday Night Lights is unbelievable.

You mentioned season two.

Season three is really great.

I don't, it's hard for me to think of too many

resets, like story resets that are on par with moving Coach Taylor to East Dillon.

Yeah, it was great.

Like, and pulling it off at that level level and making you, you have invested for three seasons at that point in the Panthers, and you are rooting so fervently against them and for the Lions by the time they face off.

It's just astonishing.

Like, I have a Vince Howard jersey.

I love the Lions.

Season five of that show is unbelievable.

And they have some of the casting, too.

Yeah, to get Michael B.

Jordan at that point in his career is unbelievable.

Yeah, my favorite show, and I wrote about this at the time, but my favorite sports show ever was The White Shadow.

And they never figured out that third season when they had to graduate some of the people and they kind of kept the coach there.

The people they brought in weren't as fun as the previous people, and the show just got canceled.

So I think by the time we got to the late 2000s, they had enough evidence of how to not do this that they did it correctly.

And they had a big twist.

They brought in new people.

They really, they really took pains to figure out who to cast.

Anyway, Garrett Hedlund, I think

he's done some good stuff.

I think his Apex Mountain was the country's strong rewatchables.

Because he was probably as surprised as everyone else.

Oh, man.

With apologies to the entire Tron franchise.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's Black Nikes.

No, but

prominently displayed.

Texas High School Football Content.

Probably the TV show.

TV show.

Yeah.

Tim McGraw, no.

No.

No.

Sports movie coin tosses?

Oh, my God.

Wow.

That's a great one.

That's a whole scene of a coin toss.

I'm going to say yes.

Jay Hernandez, no, because I think he's been in a bunch of stuff.

Lucas Black.

It's probably Tokyo Drift.

I think it's Tokyo Drift.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Horrible sports movie parents.

Oh, boy.

Crowded field.

Really tough to top Charlie Billingsley.

He's bad.

Yeah.

Jeez.

That's a good one.

That's a really good one.

Ooh, I like that.

Yeah.

Anything else?

Move on?

No, I don't think it's the Apex Mountain really for anyone or anything, even though it's a a great movie cruise or hanks

cruise

cruise

yeah

cruise as coach gains as coach gains is what yeah

i mean

i think the

moments of

like mania that simmer to the fore where you have this kind of calm, collected guy who, like you said, can sit there when the boosters charge into his office and just sort of like nod and smirk and know that he has to play the game.

He's got the button-down shirt collar popping over his like sweater.

Yeah.

But then we'll call his player a village idiot.

We'll just scream at them as they're letting this slip through their fingers, but then can kind of find the like, it's time to rally.

Let's get hyped.

Jolt.

I think the cruise version of this would be deranged, but kind of mesmerizing.

It's harder for me to see where Hanks slots in the movie, honestly.

I usually pick Hanks, as you know.

The answer is Hanks, but unfortunately, because we have a tie, we have to bring a producer, Craig Early.

He's got to decide it.

Cruise or Hanks.

Craig, you have the tiebreaker as a Cruiser Hanks.

The answer is Tom Hanks.

I'm sorry, Mal.

Come on.

But

you can't, first of all, Cruz is way too small.

Nobody will buy it.

You can't have him as a football coach.

He's like 5'6.

Billy Bob at least has some size.

Yes.

But Billy Bob is too slender.

I think Cruz has a

stoutness.

I also, I don't buy Cruz in Texas.

For some reason, Hanks, to me, can pull off the southern

point, Craig.

Personality.

Cruz being like a die-hard, long-time Texas guy makes zero sense.

No.

I see Cruz going toe-to-toe with the boosters in a way that I don't see with Hanks here.

I don't know.

So what's the tally now, Craig?

This is our last one of the year.

So if Hanks wins, it's 21 to 16, Hanks.

Well, Hanks won.

I think this is the first time I've ever picked Cruise.

Typical.

Can't wait to get Craig's take at the end.

Racehorse, rock band, wrestler, or fantasy team name.

Would you go Booby Miles or would you go Babies and Memories?

Neither.

I'm going Mojo.

My racehorse is Mojo.

Great dog name.

You know,

my wife looked at me last night as

she was.

lying in bed with one dog on one side and one dog on the other side and said, let's get it going.

My beloved Jesse is 11.

And she said, When Ben goes to college, we're getting a third dog.

And she didn't say it in a way that it was an argument.

What happened to her desire to get a cat?

Uh, I told her I was going to move out if that happened.

I don't like cats.

Yes, you do.

I don't.

You do.

I don't.

It would be the cruelest thing ever to do to Murph.

It would ruin Murph's life.

I could see Murph getting along with me.

No, Jay would be a good name for a dog.

Picking nits.

Coop.

We did so many of these.

Yeah.

Cooper's coach didn't realize this his coin was tails.

You fucking moron.

Frankly, everything with the coin toss belongs in picking nets.

All of it.

Just absolutely all of it.

Not revealing the identity of the truck stop, even though it's happening in real time when they're aiming at it.

By 1969, Buffalo nickel.

What's that?

Who flips a nickel in a coin toss?

It has to be at least a...

half dollar.

Great stuff.

Great stuff.

Last game, there's some score issues.

Again, Again, I'm right here.

I've been here for the last 30 years as a sports movie consultant.

Last game goes from 18 to 7 is 26 to 7 right before the half.

They say it's 18 to 7, and then at halftime, it's 20.

I don't know what happened with the extra eight points.

There's not only some scorekeeping wonkiness, but there's some just general timeline wonkiness.

Like, I always trip up on the fact that when Booby goes to Midland for his MRI and he's like, They said three weeks.

Three weeks is up.

I'm ready to play.

But right before that, we get that montage and we hear that, we hear that Permian is five and one.

Right.

Booby got hurt the first.

Five weeks.

Those are not that just, that bath is not the same.

In the game, all of a sudden it's 26-14 in the third quarter.

We don't know how they got the second touchdown.

Witchel takes

30 rough in the QB penalties.

I know it was a little, it was a little crazier back then, a little more violent.

Yeah.

But I don't remember an era of football ever where every single time the quarterback was just getting teed off on three seconds after he released the ball.

I'm positive that was always a penalty.

It's

wild in the concussion protocol era to see him get kicked in the face and just stay in the game.

He had previously also had like a neck wound.

Yeah.

Some amazing, amazing.

And I would add preacher at tight end on any third and short.

He's just going in.

The team's going to, the defense is going to have to worry about him.

You have any nitpicks or can we keep going?

Um, I think we hit all of them.

I guess I'll just say like Winchell basically being Will Levis the entire movie.

It's just like, you know, the oh, reactions to the bad throws across the field and then suddenly being Russell Wilson with pinpoint precision on 50-yard bombs.

Heated up.

He's like Jordan Love.

As soon as he's down 20, he heats up.

The Jordan Love story.

Sequel, prequel, Prestige TV, all blackcaster, untouchable.

Well, we have an answer to that one.

Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treo, Sid Goldberg, Sam Jackson, J.T.

Walsh, Nell, Byron Mayo, Harling Mays, Evil Affair, Ramon Raymond, Long Legs, or Philip Baker Hall?

Treyo hasn't won this all year.

Okay.

Treyo is Chavez's dad.

Interesting.

We get one bar scene with him.

He's a little rowdy, but he's a great dad.

And somebody insults the team and he ends up fighting two guys in the bar and just does Danny Treo stuff.

And then maybe he gets beaten almost near death.

And Coach Gaines comes to see him and he's like,

Gary.

I like it.

Don't leave me like this.

It's good.

Gary.

Don't leave me, Holmes.

I like it.

As a daughter of Baltimore, I'm always going to pick Wayne Jenkins here.

And I would posit that there's not a scene in the movie, not one,

where Wayne Jenkins doesn't perfectly fit.

You could see him as an angry, trash-hawking assistant coach on a rival team.

You could see him as stadium security.

I like him best as

a dirty cop, right?

Staying truly in the Wayne Jenkins aura who is convincing one of the players to throw a game because he's in gambling debt.

Oh, that's, I thought you were going to go coin toss.

He's there in the coin toss, just being like, 1969 Buffalo Nickel.

Oh, look at this guy.

So

I didn't know we were dealing with super coin.

I love it.

That gets me to one of my unanswerable questions.

I'm so curious what you think about this on the coin toss front.

Yeah.

What's to stop two of the three coaches from just like

we're in cahoots?

Let's weight the coins.

It doesn't matter.

Yeah.

It doesn't matter if the third team.

Two heads.

Yeah.

Just make sure it's heads every time for two of the scores.

Good scandal.

That'd be good.

Absolutely nothing in place, not a single thing in place to prevent that outcome.

Not one.

It's a great one.

Just one Oscar who gets it.

Probably the explosions in the sky.

Oh, I like that.

Yeah, that's a great one.

That's really good.

I mean, I think best adapted screenplay.

Right?

Yeah,

even though some of the changes and the way they have to compress the nuance of some of the characters and the story, obviously, it's a two-hour movie, but

I think the best adapted screenplay would be the one now, like for me, that stands out more than the acting performances, honestly.

Unanswerable questions.

Why didn't Don move out?

Couldn't he just lived on somebody's couch during the season?

Did he have to be home with the most abusive, awful dad possible?

Yeah, you know, again, like where we have the TV show where Riggins and his dad have this very fraught, estranged relationship, but Riggins does not live with his dad.

He lives with his brother.

So

that's on our minds, certainly.

Boy, Donnie.

Don, just move out.

Live in your car for a couple weeks.

Where does Preacher rank for you, greatest sports movie football legends we've ever had?

Because, like, the bar for me is, and we did it this year on Rewatchables, Fast Times.

Yeah.

The Forrest Whitaker character just demolishing everybody.

That's like probably a 10 out of 10.

Preacher's a solid 9-9.

It feels like if he doesn't have seven sacks, force two turnovers, and 40 tackles in the championship game.

They probably

come close.

Yeah.

That's what it's and I just like those characters in general.

The guys who are just, you know, everybody wants them, has that, which is ironically the mustache guy.

What was that guy's name?

Not Glenn Powell.

Glenn Powell is good too, but mustache guy who looks like Burt Reynolds and everybody wants them.

Where it's just like, he's just clearly the best guy.

I like when sports movies, there's also like clearly a best guy.

My favorite, my favorite everybody wants some figures, Wyatt Russell.

Remarkable stuff.

Absolutely remarkable.

I think that the fact that the movie makes it feel like they have absolutely no chance without Booby knocks Preacher's legend down a tier because there's never a moment where they're like, it's okay.

We have the most dominant defender, Wolfing.

Well, the problem is the dumbass coach was

he built the whole offense around a running back and didn't even know his third down running back could do anything.

Classic.

I had for Unanswerables, where does this movie rank in the best football movies ever?

And

it's in the top six.

Okay.

Okay.

And I think it really depends on, I think Longest Yard is just number one.

It has to be.

It was the first one.

The football scenes are still great.

And then the next five in some order are Friday Night Lights, North Dallas 40, Remember the Titans, Rudy, and any given Sunday.

Yeah.

I think, and it really depends on on what you want out of your football movie.

But I think those five,

if you're starting the discussion, I think those five have to be in it.

Interesting.

And then after that, I would do varsity blues, all the red moves, the replacements, and draft day, which we did together on The Rewatch.

Well, the best.

Really fun football movie.

I'm a little cake-eating motherfucker.

I love it.

Where do you, do you, is this for you for high school football movies?

Clearly, the winner?

No, just football.

Sports movies featuring football.

Yeah.

And then the only other one, Necessary Roughness, is good.

And then after that, it gets pretty bad.

And we haven't had one in a while.

Yeah.

We haven't had a good one in a while, I should say.

But we've, we've, and I'm sure I forgot one, but I think that's the list.

But Friday Night Lights is somewhere number two to number six.

Interesting.

On the list.

Interesting.

For Craig, replacements is number one after we did replacements.

He was just the list for that one.

Great one.

All right, so that we're done with unanswerables.

And now we have.

Wait, I wanted to ask you for unanswerables.

Give me some insight on the on the odds on the on the on the lines.

What were what were Permian's odds to take it all in the preseason?

What was the line for the championship game against Carter?

Like what, where, where are we on all this?

I think with Booby.

Yeah.

First of all, thank you for asking.

Yeah, you're welcome.

I think with Booby, they're probably the number two best odds.

Okay.

So they're

basically where like the Eagles are right now.

Right.

Probably like minus, or I'm sorry, plus like 300, plus 350 range.

No booby championship game.

Dallas Carter, probably like 16 and a half point underdogs.

16 and a half.

Yeah.

Holy

shit.

14 and a half.

I mean, it was like

an all-time powerhouse in a huge city

versus a team in a smaller city missing their best player.

Interesting.

You might be right.

I mean, there is that.

We get the glimpse of like the poll of the game.

They lost regular season games.

They did.

They did.

Yeah.

they also had plummeted to like 16th in the rankings like after the boobie injury and losing the the second game of the season so obviously then they have to kind of work their way back up into good standing but 16 and a half wow somewhere 13 and a half to 16 and a half i would say okay i mean after seeing dallas carter that you could argue maybe they should have been like 20 point favorites but i almost feel like you have to do like college lines for that one

best double feature choice varsity blues is too easy but i'm going to do it anyway that's my pick as well yeah it's just varsity blues right into this let's get both sides of it We get the super fun Texas version.

Then we get like the serious version.

Yeah.

And they're like relatively contemporary.

I mean, Varsity Blues is 99.

You know, it's a five-year difference, but that movie is just, it's just a study and debauchery.

It's the best.

Oh, yeah.

We did that as a live show.

I remember.

What theater was that?

That was Largo.

Yeah.

Yeah, Largo.

That was so fun.

That was fun.

The Indian Reds of Watana Award.

What happened the next day?

Just notable.

Gary Gaines went to college.

After they won the title in the next year, became an assistant in a bunch of different programs, bounced around a little bit, and then came back to Permian in the late 2000s.

Yeah.

So, this clearly, I am assuming, inspires the season two plotline where Eric goes to be a college assistant, right?

And then comes back.

Um,

do you find this category to be quite difficult when this is based on a real story and you know what happened to all these people?

This is like really hard, almost impossible.

Could have skipped it.

What piece of memorability would you want from the movie?

I could offer you the Booby Miles jersey or the Booby Miles nameplate.

I could offer you the Permian coin, coin, the 1969 nickel.

I could offer you something else.

Oh man, I want, I think, Charlie Billingsley's championship ring, given the emotional weight attached to that.

Yeah, no, that's yeah.

Like you could pick the Panthers helmet, but it's so basic.

You know what would be really fun to have is one of the lawn signs for the players.

Those are great.

I would love a lawn sign.

I would not keep it on my lawn.

I would keep it inside my home.

I would frame it and hang it.

You could have put it right in the behind you.

They could.

Your podcast territory.

Still can.

Coach Finstock Award for best life lesson.

you may never matter again in your life as much as you do right now

wow that's kind of a downer i'm going with always keep your helmet handy all right that's good too who won the movie peter berg i think it has to be this this leads to one of the best television shows in the history of television so i i think it has to be in terms of the performances obviously billy bobb is great i really think derek luca's booby is just tremendous he's great him and uh garrett headlin i think yep are the performances stand out all right it's time producer Producer Craig Horobeck had not seen this movie.

I'm a little nervous.

Wait, can we just establish?

So you have not seen the show, Craig?

No.

I don't understand.

How do you not seen the show?

I don't know anything about it.

I don't know the characters.

I don't know how the movie, how the show ends.

I knew nothing about the movie.

It came out.

When did the show start?

What year?

06.

06.

I went 06 to 11.

But you, I don't understand this.

You love football.

You love story.

Just like Rodney.

Those are my two core tenants.

I don't know.

I guess it came out when I was in middle school and I wasn't watching it live.

And I think when I was in high school, it was like, it was harder to watch stuff after the fact in high school.

You were kind of just watching stuff in the moment.

There wasn't like an easy

thing to.

Yeah.

Yes.

So it was kind of hard to do that.

Before we start, just want to say, why do they let these, we're just.

putting a lot of trust into these Texas high school football coaches to bring their own coin to a really pivotal coin toss.

That's crazy.

Yeah.

Three equal quarters.

They're just like, yeah, whatever you want.

Imagine a basketball team just being like, we brought our own ball to the game.

it's ridiculous.

That's what I'm saying.

Like, what are they doing to protect against cheating?

Like, you could make it, you could wait the coin, you could get into cahoots with another team.

Like, on unanswerable questions, the guy who fucks it up with the worn-out coin, like, he's probably thinking for the rest of his life about what if I just brought a different coin the rest of his life.

The most, you know, the best unintentional comedy moment was like the guy who was ever uh running the coin test was like, and over here, Coach Gaines has a uh 1978 nickel.

And I'm like, What are we doing?

I don't know.

know any coin any coin you can find it's a captivating scene for some reason it is anyway what's your take

this movie was way way way better than i thought it was going to be yes um so everything you guys said at the top i i wrote down and i completely agree with really smartly edited very choppy a lot of close-ups um even the color grading is kind of gritty yeah i i i didn't realize how serious this movie was going to be thematically i i guess because it was a tv show i thought it was going to to be way more teen melodrama-y,

and it wasn't at all.

And

I mean, very, very serious.

Like, this is about peaking in high school legacy, disappointing your parents.

I thought they did such a great job, and this is easily one of the most relatable movies for young athletes, maybe ever, or at least that I've seen.

It's not a very Hollywood movie.

Remember the Titans is my favorite movie.

And I think it's,

remember the Titans is kind of the in-between between like completely ridiculous and real serious.

But that even has the Hollywood ending.

This does not have that.

So it's definitely closer to Moneyball than it is like the replacements by a long shot to me.

I have to imagine the TV show is much more melodramatic, right?

So

were you shocked when they didn't win at the end?

Honestly, yeah, a little bit.

Because there were moments I actually didn't love the coach of

Carter.

I thought he was a little slapsticky for the movie.

I thought they should have grabbed somebody who was a bit more serious because there was like he was 10%

replacements and i didn't like that uh i think he should have won the over acting award yeah i i didn't could have given it to him yeah um but yeah i honestly probably did think they were going to win and i i really enjoyed that they didn't i also thought they hit a lot of really good subtle stuff you know i i like didn't really play football in high school i played for my freshman year but i had a lot of friends who did and just all the subtleties of they're always eating because they got to maintain weight and all these guys probably got to be like 30 pounds heavier than their bodies want them to be yeah they're always stuffing their face with the burritos.

The burger, I mean, he's eating that burger for like two straight minutes.

It feels like he has three on his plate.

I love that everybody in town is a psycho.

They're constantly asking the kids if they're going to win state.

You know, they're pulling up next to the cops.

Yeah.

Hey, boys, gonna win state this year?

Yes, sir.

Gonna go undefeated?

Yes, sir.

And it's just like so good.

All the disregard for women is so 80s in Texas.

And it's, yeah.

How's your, hey, Coach Gaines, how's your pretty wife doing?

Like, man,

this is

great.

And I have to say, I think the most, honestly, the most harrowing scene perhaps of the, of the 20, of the 2000s is Tim McGraw watching his son hook up with Maria.

I think that is a fucking horrific moment.

It's terrible.

Imagining that.

I imagine that in high school, I would be out of that house in the next 10 minutes.

My God, just

an unfathomable situation.

You guys should have have hit on it.

Even Byron Mayo wouldn't have done that.

I feel like he would have asked for permission from somebody.

Dad, just go back to your room.

So, so did this make you want to watch the TV show now?

Could be the next step, you and Liz.

You have to.

Yeah, I think it might be the next three watches.

Craig.

Did she watch the movie with you?

No.

Oh, because Garrett Hedland, I thought maybe.

She actually saw me watching from, like, she walked by and she's like, Garrett Hedland.

I love him.

I'm like, I know.

Yeah.

You're like, well aware.

Dude, you're going to love the show.

Like, I think this has a chance to genuinely be your favorite show.

I'm not kidding.

Bring out like two episodes and see how it feels.

But is it much more like, you know, teen drama, Riverdale mixed with a football show?

No, no.

Not Riverdale at all.

No, there is teen drama, but like it's expert.

If you like the movie, there's no way you won't like the TV show.

I would say it's an impossible.

Season two goes wrong in a few key ways that we will not.

Season two goes wrong.

But then they trust that they get their hands on the wheel again.

Also, one last question.

So I found out, right, that they won state the next year.

Yeah.

Why wasn't the movie about that?

I understand that it's maybe more interesting if it's the losing team, but I'm just surprised that it's not about the year they won.

Because it's kind of led down to be like, oh, next year they won.

You're like, oh, the book was about 88.

And I think they were staying faithful to the book because the book was like an iconic book.

Like if you if you like football and you liked reading, you read the book.

But did that?

Did the book come out before before the following season

the book was about the 88 season and it came out after the season they won i guess i'm just surprised why write the book about the losing season and not the winning season but maybe that's more interesting because overcoming adversity is is more interesting right than just dominating he was a really big uh newspaper writer and he took a year off to follow the team around in 88.

So that was what the book was about.

And then he went back to his job and wrote the book.

Yeah.

So I think that's why they did it that way.

But you're right.

it's, I think there was a 30 for 30.

I don't, I don't remember if I was still there or not, but we did a 30 for 30 about the Dallas Carter team at some point.

Yeah, um, but I can't remember if it was a short or what.

We did so many of those, but uh, but yeah, the Dallas Carter, like having to give the title back was like a big that was like a national story in the late 80s.

So, yeah, I also think Billy Bob's, I think his best scene is the first speech.

When he ends before the first game, he ends his speech with, so let's take care of it.

I thought that that gave me chills.

Are you watching Landman yet, Craig?

No, I haven't seen it.

So now Craig has two shows.

You're missing out.

Fantasy football is over now.

Right.

You got the playoffs.

The Steelers are going to be out after round one.

And no more fantasy football.

And you have the draft coming a while from now.

I don't know.

You have some time for a show.

Great.

All right.

I'll pencil in Landman and Friday Night Lights.

I don't think Landman, I don't know if there's ever been a better show that you don't have to 100% watch as you're watching it.

You can like 89% watch watch it, but also like kind of look at the internet.

It does have a 100% approval rating from everybody I've spoken to.

It's not high enough.

It's the best.

It's higher.

It's the best.

110 should be the percentage rating.

All right.

That's it for the rewatchables.

That was our last one of 2024.

Thank you to Mallory Rubin.

It was great to see you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Craig.

Another great year for us.

At some point, we got to do the Rewatchables mailbag because we have all of these mailbag things that we can do.

So 2025 next year, some fun anniversaries.

It's the 30th anniversary of the 95.

Really nice run.

90 was super fun.

We've done a lot of the movies from those years, but we'll probably do some more.

Thanks to Gidahau as well.

That's it.

I guess we're coming back next week.

We might do two next week.

So

just know that.

And you can watch all of these that we've done for the last couple of years on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel that has some great stuff on there as well.

And don't forget me and Mal and Joanne on the Prestige TV podcast next month, White Lotus, Sunday Nights.

Craig Mallory, thank you.

Great to see you guys.

Happy New Year.

Happy New Year.