‘Body Double’ With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Sean Fennessey

What's up everybody?

Chris Vernon here and welcome to a new season of the NBA and the Mismatch.

And huge welcome as well to my new co-host Dave Jacobi.

I can't wait to link with you twice a week, every Tuesday and Friday, right here on The Mismatch to break down everything that's happening in the league.

Who's playing well, who we loved, who we loathed, trade rumors, team dysfunction.

We've got you covered right here.

So follow us, subscribe, and hit us with those five-star ratings on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast.

And also don't forget to follow us on social media.

That's at Ringer NBA and check out the full mismatch episodes with the two handsomest podcasters in the history of podcasting right in the Ringer NBA YouTube channel.

This episode is supported by FX's The Lowdown starring Ethan Hawk.

Allow us to introduce you to Lee Raybon.

a quirky journalist slash rare bookstore owner slash unofficial truth seeker who is always on the tail of his latest conspiracy.

This time, his most recent expose puts him head to head with the powerful family that rules Tulsa.

Meaning only one thing, he must be onto something big.

FX is the lowdown premieres September 23rd on FX.

Stream on Hulu.

This episode is brought to you by Angry Orchard.

Rewatch your favorite horror movies with this perfect drink that's crisp and refreshing, but not too sweet.

Don't get angry that you already know the twist ending or who dies or in what order.

Just slash open Angry Orchard's brand new Halloween thriller pack made in partnership with the Jason Universe, featuring killer flavors like Berry Bewitched and Headless Pumpkin.

Don't get angry, get Orchard.

Find Angry Orchard near you this Halloween season.

Angry Orchard Cider Company, LLC AngryOrchard.com.

Please drink responsibly.

Angry Orchard is a hard cider with other natural flavors.

The Rewatchables is brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network.

It is no longer Scary Month.

We are back to normal podcasts.

Sean Fentancy is here, host of the big picture.

Yeah.

Chris Ryan, president of Linda Shaw Enterprises.

Can it be horny November?

It sure can be.

You have a new film coming out, Deep Ghost,

The Mating Game.

I'm not some stunt cop film.

Body Double is next.

Don't blink.

You are about to witness a crime of illusion.

An act of deception.

A vision of murder.

Brian De Palma, Body Double.

You can't believe everything you see.

Rated R.

Starts Friday at a theater near you.

All right, body double.

40th anniversary this fall.

Brian DePalma, Sean's guy.

What's he in your Sean's guy ranking?

Oh, my God.

Is he one?

He's my number one pervert.

Trader, number one?

Who's number one?

Guys who are like, what I'm really thinking about is cranking it, he's number one.

That's like all of his movies.

When you're watching him, he's like, gosh, I really like how that lady looks.

That's what's running through his mind.

In that ranking, he's number one.

So this is Dress the Kill Crust with Rear Window Crust with Vertigo.

And you just get the feeling palma who i think was post cocaine at this point right well

hard to say because you've got you've got steven bauer and and melanie griffith being critical participants in this movie but he there's one interview he gave where he was like everyone was basically in cocaine's anonymous playing trivial pursuit and that's how he got to know melany griffith better yes i think it's i think it's right after scarfield i think stylistically there were still some granules on the back maybe maybe there's some dust yeah still like maybe not not ingested, but it's like it's the pixie dust on screen is definitely a misting.

Yeah.

My feeling is he just watched a bunch of Hitchcock movies and was like, what if these were way hornier?

And then was off.

Yeah.

You could say that about a lot of movies in his career.

You know, many of his best movies are thrillers that are overtly inspired by Hitchcock, but he's like, now we can show breasts on screen.

And he's excited about that.

But also

an incredible mastery of filmmaking craft, much like Hitchcock.

Yes.

CR.

I just find this movie to be so delightful, even though it's so twisted and fucked up.

Like, this is like a very funny movie.

It reminds me kind of like David Lynch movies sometimes, where I'm just like, why is he making that face?

And that's what makes it so re-watchable to me is just like, you can find all these little details in this thing.

Like, oh, I didn't notice that this guy was standing behind the payphone at that moment.

You know, like it's a freeze frame movie.

It's, it's a like rewind the scene movie it's so fun is it possible only guys like this movie because i tried to make my wife watch this with me and multiple times in the first hour she was like this is terrible you're doing this on the rewatchables why are you doing this

yeah and then she just left does carry have a lot of twitter accounts

maybe

i think he's he has made movies in his career that women like you know carrie for example right is a movie that women really love body double women love the untouchables.

Yeah.

They do not.

Snake guys, they're big fans of.

But this is maybe his most, the most pure distillation of his id.

You know, the thing, this, this idea of watching women move, he has said is a huge inspiration for this movie.

He loves to literally follow women and observe how they move.

And that's a part of the telling of this story.

Man, there's this amazing interview out there.

I can't remember which one it is, but it's like this guy's asking De Palma all these sort of probing questions about like, do you make immoral or amoral art and all this stuff?

And he's like, you know, why do you always have to, it's the woman, woman's the victim and not the man.

And he's like, it's way more entertaining.

Yes.

I saw that interview.

Yeah.

It was just like, it's way more interesting.

What did he mention?

He mentioned Still of the Night with Roy Schneider.

And he's like, it sucked.

Nobody wants Royce Schneider in danger.

Yeah.

Audrey Hepburn Blind.

That's awesome.

Like, yeah.

He's given, him and Trader are probably leaders in the clubhouse for just awesome letting it fly.

I don't give a shit anymore.

Yeah.

I'll just throw bombs left and right.

But De Palma has always been like that.

There's a great clip of De Palma on Dick Cavitt's show with Scorsese in the early seven, maybe mid-70s.

And even then, he's just, he's being such a sarcastic little bastard for every question that Dick Cavott asks.

He never really cared, which is part of what makes him great.

Yeah.

I mean, if you have that kind of talent, you can afford to be that cocky.

But, you know, there's so many different ways his career could have gone if probably he played ball like five more percent, but then that wouldn't be these movies.

It would, they would be slightly different, you know?

This was the most power he had because he's coming off a stretch from 76 to 83, Carrie, the Fury, Dress to Kill, Blowout, Scarface.

And then Columbia is like, three-picture deal, go.

And he's like, thank you.

I will go, actually.

I have some ideas.

I was doing Dress to Kill, and there was a whole thing with NG Dickinson's body double.

And I thought, hmm, what a cool idea for a movie.

And then I watched every Hitchcock movie and I lost my mind.

He also, I think, was getting a lot of backlash for those movies that were the ones you listed off that were so popular.

And some, some directors and some artists might be like, oh, okay, I'll soften it up a little bit.

I'll change gears.

He's just like, I'm going to go 110% in the direction that people criticize me in.

you know, violence.

Even to the end.

Yeah, nudity.

He throws in a blood going over a body double's breast scene just to end the movie.

The credits.

He's like this, basically.

Hey, guys.

I do think he's weirdly, though, being honest about the fact that this is what he believes people want because he's like, this is what I want.

What I love is high-toned, beautifully imagined violence and sex.

That's a human impulse, and there's nothing wrong with rendering it and making fun of the fact that this is what we like.

Like, this movie is a comedy.

It's a satire.

Like, it's meant to be fun and funny and ridiculous.

It's all on purpose.

So I don't blame him for pursuing that.

I wrote the Wikipedia.

The description should have been an emasculated, cucked, claustrophobic, stalking, peeping Tom, wannabe adult film producer, almost finds love with a porn actress and an embattled wife who gets murdered by a drill.

Dressed to kill, coming up next.

It's pretty accurate.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's one of the weirdest, and I want to really go into the casting of that, one of the weirdest protagonists we've had, but it seems like a big inspiration for him.

It was really fun reading all the Department of Inviews.

I watched a documentary.

He said in 2024, because he was doing press for the 40th anniversary, I think why my type of movies lasts so long is they're very cinematic.

Cinema kind of died with celluloid because you don't have the same cinematographers anymore.

You don't have film anymore.

It's now completely dominated by the writers and showrunners.

And the movies and shows are basically radio plays full of people talking to each other.

And they're all shooting digitally.

It doesn't look very interesting.

He was very obsessed with look.

I had a very funny experience with this where I watched it once and then I was kind of like watching it to take notes.

And I'm obviously very used to watching TV at this point where I kind of more or less just need to hear it.

It's almost like a podcast with moving pictures.

Yeah.

I mean, like, especially if you're like watching a lot, you're just like, oh, okay, like, these two people are talking about whether this guy is the bad guy or not.

And it's like, they're sitting in a room.

You don't really, it's not like there's going to be some amazing piece of filmmaking that you miss.

But I actually like, I think, got to go get a bottle of water while Body Devil was on.

And I was like, oh, I missed, like, I missed the whole point of this being on film in on screen in the first place is to visually stimulate and or terrify and or accelerate your heartbeat.

And that the dialogue is basically secondary in this film and in many DePalma films.

Even the story, which is

like labyrinthine and confusing at times.

And kind of silly.

But not very good.

You know, like the story of this movie, because he talks about this, how it's all about this, he wants the structure.

Like he's interested in the structure and then everything else that goes into it, the plotting and the dialogue, is sort of like the details you have to figure out afterwards.

He's like, but I have an idea about a movie where a guy observes someone, but the person that he's observing isn't the person he thinks it is.

Like, that's the thing that gets him excited about making the movie, which is different than we're making a new TV series and it has a high concept.

And what's most important is that the dialogue crackle.

He doesn't care about that stuff.

That's why I have like 13 nitpicks coming up later.

There's some holes.

It's flawed.

Yeah.

It's flawed.

There's some holes.

I love it, though.

I saw this movie.

I did not see it in the theater.

I've never seen this movie in the theater, actually.

I would like to see this movie in the movie.

I would do.

I haven't either.

Yeah, I saw this.

This was in the HBO,

you know, early Blockbuster Vortex.

I'm a teenager.

And it was like, this was a run where we had.

American Gigolo, Dress to Kill, Body Heat, Postman, Always Rings Twice, Thief of Hearts, Crimes of Passion, Tightrope, and Body Double in five years in the early 80s.

I'm going to call this Horny Film Noir.

I think that's exactly right because it's like erotic thriller crossed with film noir and it's a specific category.

It even shifts as the 80s go along because then in the late 80s, we get into this nine and a half weeks, Angel Heart, Fatal Attraction, Masquerade.

It becomes more popcorn.

Adrian Lyon kind of thing.

Yeah, yeah.

These are more like really cool, Hitchcock homage type movies.

I think it's a hinge point between body heat and basic instinct.

You know what I mean?

Like if those are really the two poles of that era of those kinds of movies and two of the best examples, body double is like the most lurid, but the most mainstream at the same time.

Yeah.

Well, as a teenager, it worked.

It was great.

Fell in love with Melanie Griffith.

So what was your relationship to her before this movie?

Only knew her from one-on-one with Robbie Benson.

She played the hitchhiker.

Didn't know any of the lore.

Because she was in some movies in the 70s when she was a teenager.

She had a little run.

She was in Drowning Pool, right?

Drowning Pool night moves.

Smile.

Pretty severe problems in the early 80s.

I think pretty legendary wild child.

And then I think cleaned it up a little bit.

And then by the end of the 80s, it was one of the biggest actions we had.

Yeah.

Like she's in Working Girl.

That movie is a phenomenon.

Her

80s, her mid-80s is...

even more amazing than I had remembered.

The run that she goes on after this movie is an incredible movie.

Yeah.

And that's when Something Wild happens, right?

Something Wild is immediately after it, Fear City, the Abel Farrar movie.

And then she's in Malagro Beanfield War, the Robert Redford movie, and Working Girl in the same year.

She also

rare that somebody had the exact look of the look you needed in the year.

Like you see her in this movie.

It's exactly what

a lot of the musicians looked like.

A lot of the porn actresses looked like.

You name it.

It was just wrestlers, whoever it was.

She just kind of fit in perfectly.

Yeah.

And then it crested with Pacific Heights, one of the great movies of all time.

It's up here.

When she battles Carter Hayes.

It's up there with La Note.

Yeah.

Her versus Carter Hayes is where you create.

Have you done that on the show?

No, I've been saving it.

Okay.

All right.

There's from hell.

It might be from hell year.

From hell year.

Yeah, just from hell until we run it.

Do we wait to the election to determine that?

Yeah, maybe.

De Palma said about this movie at the time.

If this one doesn't get an X, nothing I ever do is going to.

This is going to be the most erotic and surprising and thrilling movie I know how to make.

I'm going to give them everything they hate and more of it than they've ever seen.

They think Scarface was violent.

They think my other movies were erotic.

Wait until they see Body Double.

You dropped a little bit of, you think you better than me.

I know, I know.

Boston Brian.

I think I can't push an envelope.

He didn't actually get to do what he wanted to do, though.

But that's, I was going to have this for the hottest take that.

I feel like this movie is pretty tame compared to what

was.

I agree.

Because you've watched Crimes of Passion now.

That movie is insane.

Yeah.

I think that this movie

pretends like it's incredibly horny and titillating and is actually more about like how funny and weird all this like sex industry and sex it can be.

Yeah.

And so that's, he's like selling you on like, yeah, it's a lot of topless chicks in this movie.

It's great.

But then you get there and you're like, oh, this actually isn't.

This isn't titillating at all because it's like, what if this was just a day job for people, you know?

The porn industry stuff.

Yeah.

but also spending two hours with craig wasson who's like the weirdest dork of all time i mean the movies can we talk a little bit about the casting of the leading man stuff i have that right here yeah what two more things on depalma um

he hired this writer to work on the script with the robert averick who later said his work on the film was working off the palma's ideas of hitchcock's ideas So there you go.

And then De Palma, the research on this was great.

He originally planned for this to be the first Hollywood film to have unsimulated sex scenes.

That's what I was referring to.

And the studio was like, nope, no, thank you.

I'd like to know that quote that you read of his, if that came before he got told he could not do that.

Yeah.

Because he was like, I'm going to make a mainstream porno.

That's my plan here.

And didn't get the chance.

The 80s were great.

As we've said many times, just cocaine was fueling a lot of the creativity from 78 to 86.

It's just, it's so funny because it took us like 37 minutes to get to work today.

And I was like, I'm watching these guys just just like drive their gas guzzling convertibles like from culvert city to the hollywood hills in five minutes and i'm like ah god damn it yeah cast incisions so in order craig wasson is the lead he's like bill maher crossed with brick and meyer nailed it i i i'm gonna pass out how that's so good like that's that's exactly what he looks like it's like if they had a kid that's perfect i have no idea why he's the lead of the movie

and i i i think the palm is smarter than us so there had to to have been a reason he wanted to have somebody who wasn't an actual A-lister or a star.

Yeah, I think he people have talked about like it just doesn't work if it's Travolta.

Exactly.

It doesn't work if it's if it's Al Pacino or something.

And like, you're like, oh, that's Al Pacino or John Travolta.

Who's a big-time movie star that you would also describe as a cuck?

Does one exist?

Well, but and nobody would want that part where it's like, hey, cool, I'm doing this movie where I walk in on my girlfriend riding somebody.

It's not like he's like, oh, no.

He's like,

and he just kind of like skulks out of the, of the room.

Like, it's, it's so emasculating.

Yeah.

So that's why.

Yeah.

Because I had him recasting couch.

I was like, if Kurt Russell is this guy, is this a better movie or a worse movie?

I think it's a worse movie, but you would get a better lead performance.

I think that, you know,

I don't want to get too far ahead, but like.

Tom Hanks is kind of perfect for this.

I thought about Tom Hanks too.

Because the, you know, what he's doing is he's trying to recreate the Jimmy Stewart part.

The regular, the ordinary man that he, that Hitchcock was so good at portraying.

And in the 40s and 50s and 60s, the ordinary man

stars were seemed more like regular guys.

They didn't seem like Tom Cruise or they didn't seem like Patrick Swayze or John Travolta.

They were like...

They look like somebody's dad, but a more handsome version.

And so that isn't really the trend in 84.

And so he leans into a guy who,

you know, seemingly is a dweeb.

Could it have have been Dreyfus?

He said,

on my girlfriend.

I can't do it.

You can do a better Dreyfus than me.

It's like, come on.

The bite radius on my girlfriend is not from a tiger shark.

It's pretty good.

Sometimes you got to defer to CR with the impersonation.

Wasn't Dreyfus lost at this time?

He was done.

I mean, that's the thing.

Cocaine.

Goodbye, girl.

He had been in John.

That was five years ago.

But he was in East, though.

But in 84, he was in a cocaine.

This guy literally is the dude who moves to L.A.

to be an actor, thinks he's hot shit, finds out he is like the 350th draft pick in that town, and spends all of his time doing B movies or going to auditions and going to acting classes.

So he's kind of perfect, but he's also as a quarterback.

He's a game manager at best.

I think that he's perfect in the first act of the movie.

Kind of the minshoe.

When it changes over, when the playoffs come in this film, I think you want a little bit more of like a blue chip arm behind something.

He didn't do the claustrophobic face.

This movie also did nothing for his career.

No.

No, everything that comes after this.

Because he won a Golden Globe for an Arthur Penn movie that I had never heard of, Four Friends.

Oh, yeah, sure.

And

he kind of just does a lot of voiceover work and he's done a lot of B movies.

Could you have talked yourself in a Caruso?

David Caruso?

Oh, yeah.

There's no way anyone would cheat on David Caruso.

Or really, Caruso, like like two years after Officer and a German.

Stuff of Legends.

Can you imagine watching Gloria?

Stuff of Legends.

Stuff of Legends.

It's a really weird lead choice.

It's for movies that I really like and I've seen a million times.

This is probably the weirdest number one person in a movie.

It's still

seeing him in the credits.

It's like, ah.

He is the star of the movie.

Yeah.

Star of Mirth is only in like 18 minutes of this movie.

Star of a top top five at the time famous director yep just was like that's my guy i i was watching this in like the first eight minutes after he leaves the set and he's like stops and gets hot dogs with onions on everything you know he's like that and he's like picking everything up and he keeps jumping into his car he doesn't like get in through the door i was like

did i pick the like am i having a stroke is this actually the first 15 minutes of this movie is this guy just like kind of haggling across los angeles and it's really strange because you're just like, this dude is not a movie star.

No.

No.

There are a lot of people like this guy who come to Hollywood and they're like, I know, maybe I'm missing a couple of things, but I feel like, and they point to two actors that maybe they can follow that path.

Sure.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And within five years, they're moving back to Kansas City.

And then Giamatti's like, fuck no.

Get out of here.

Yeah, Giamatti.

It's like, clear out.

So Giamatti could have been somebody.

Giamatti years later, right?

Yeah.

He could have been Dennis Friends.

Yeah.

Deborah Shelton, who plays Gloria Revelle, is so bad in this movie that they had to redub her voice with Helen Shaver, which I don't ever remember reading.

And we've done 363 rewatchables.

I don't ever remember somebody being cast.

It's almost like a spaghetti western.

Like it almost makes his interactions with Gloria feel like otherworldly.

Yeah.

I just watched a movie called Death Game with Seymour Cassell where the same thing happened, where at the end of the movie,

they needed to do ADR because it wasn't recorded well enough.

But Seymour Cassell hated the director and he was like, fuck you, I'm not coming back for ADR.

So they dug over his entire performance with somebody else's voice.

But in an American movie production, it's very rare.

Yeah.

Because I always thought that was her voice.

And I always wondered why she wasn't a bigger star because she's hot.

Yes.

But it turns out, I don't know what was wrong.

Was there a voice like Fran Dresher?

I don't know.

What is it, Deborah?

No, I watched an interview with her.

I thought it was totally normal.

I watched a bunch of interviews with her connected to the anniversary of this movie.

and helen shaver she's amazing voice yeah great voice yeah but helen shaver like she's got the i smoke two packs a day right you know which is very sultry that's why cr was like hey there hey

well and then melanie griffith he casts her and she becomes a massive star almost immediately gold globe nomination but um revives her career.

De Palma said, I knew Melanie because we played Trivia Pursuit together.

It was Steve Dower and Melanie and a bunch of other actors.

These were all actors that had come out of like Cocaine Anonymous.

They're all being rehabilitated.

I got to know her quite well, and she really wanted to play the part.

We have a really good casting wid-if for this, but

I don't know anyone else who's like Melanie Griffith, like this 80s version of Melanie Griffith.

There's certainly been nobody in the last 20 years like this.

She's in a tradition of a certain kind of movie star, like Judy Holiday.

She was in the remake of Born Yesterday, or, you know, certainly Marilyn Monroe, where it's sort of like, don't underestimate the intelligence of this beautiful blonde.

You know, that's like a traditional holiday.

She knew we did see, but not really.

Anna Ferris tried to pull this off, but couldn't pull it off.

She didn't

in the Cameron Diaz, in the Coppola movie.

Right, Lost in Translation.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, she is in that tradition.

Cameron Diaz is in that tradition, you know, like that.

It's like an archetype that kind of persists.

She, though, has something

a little bit different because she's like, really naughty.

You know, like there's something very...

Yeah, more so than Jamie Lee Curtis in Trading Places.

Right.

Like, which is.

And Jamie Lee Curtis was rumored for this movie.

And I think Melanie Griffith works so much better.

It needs to be ditzy, but kind of street smart and

ultimately like a little bit dirty.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You buy her as Holly Body in this movie for sure.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

You have bought her on VHS.

Chris has literally bought her.

On three-quarter-inch tape.

Here's the

Palma on erotic thrillers.

Are they dead?

Was the question.

I think so i don't know what's going to change something new will emerge maybe it'll have to come out of europe but i don't see it classic as i said i'm constantly looking for stuff to look at it's in the hands of the writers and the showrunners who are being paid a lot of money by tech companies this is not a good place for independent art to evolve it is funny that this guy could just basically be like, I love watching porn.

And we're like, oh, God, what an o-tori.

He's just like, you know, he's really putting in the work.

And he's just like,

I'm scouting Europe.

Trust me.

Yeah.

there's an emerging

poor emerging erotic thriller industry out of bulgaria the reason

it's like he found the luka donchric of erotic thrillers you guys he was on erotic thriller nba tv watch his euro hoops

also

you know at the time this movie was made columbia was owned by coca-cola it's not as though like oh the tech companies are holding him back in 2024 like this was always true he was always kind of of pushing the envelope and trying to get stuff done that other people wouldn't want him to do.

It does tie to a question that has been being asked this year about nudity in films and how to approach sex when sex is so available on the internet.

What was that movie you liked, Anora?

Yes, the film that is most likely to win Best Picture of this year.

Yeah, it has a ton of nudity and sex.

I haven't seen it yet.

It does, yeah, it does.

I mean, it's about a how would you compare it to like Bulgarian erotic thrillers coming out of our own?

It's a little bit more tame or Hollywood.

Hollywood.

Yeah, I mean, but that's a movie, though, about like the consequences of working in that environment.

And this movie, I would not say, is about that.

This movie is not like, here's the downside of being Holly Body.

It does seem like it's trying to say something about the movie industry, though.

Because that

one of the rewatchable scenes we'll get to is when

Jake and Holly Body, they're finished getting a drink and they run into that actress.

Yeah.

And they start talking about, oh, what's going on?

What are you working on?

And, and it feels like DePalma is trying to say something like, these two, these two worlds are not not that far away.

Yeah, everyone who does this work is a whore, whether you're actually in a film where you're having sex or if you're just trying to get your next job, you're whoring yourself all the time.

And the ending, I think, is the other one where he's like.

Yes.

Yeah.

You think a gratuitous nudity?

Okay, watch this.

Yeah.

I mean, that's.

For no reason at all, I'm going to actually have a body double scene and I'm going to shoot it perfectly and put blood on the boobs.

It's an incredible, it's, it's one of the great kind of like tongue-in-cheek joke endings of a movie.

It's just like everything that you were sort of like, you know, getting so excited by for the last two hours is just like a guy with a steel bar measuring how far this woman was from the camera.

And it's like, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's really behind this.

It's also an echo of the Angie Dickinson scene in Dress the Kill, which is like a shower scene that is kind of focused on the camera.

Well, you guys don't remember because you weren't, we're probably not born yet, but I remember that, that body double, that was a big,

there was like a people magazine feature about her.

And I remember thinking like, and I hadn't even seen the movie, but I was like, wait, so they have somebody's getting naked, but then somebody else is the one getting, I'm like, what's I was like, 10,

10, there was a pretty famous one when we were growing up where it was like, that is in her real butt or something.

I got it.

There's been a lot of those, though.

There was one in the 90s that was very memorable, but because I remember when Striptease came out, it was like, that's, that's Demi Moore.

Oh, yeah.

Like, there are no body doubles in this movie.

That is her dancing.

You know, it's unmistakable.

But a lot of the time in that, in those situations, you'd use a body double.

Really fun.

I've let I'll be 22 years in LA this month, and I've seen this movie a bunch of times, having never lived here and not knowing where anything was.

But now that I'm here,

it's one of the better.

Oh, oh, oh, that place.

Yeah, farmer's market.

Yeah, he's going to green farmers market.

Yeah,

Barney's Bean.

Where's the mall?

Is the mall that she buys the underwear?

Is that the Rodea one?

My wife goes to that.

She was all excited about that.

That was before she stormed off.

This movie sucks.

It's pretty pretty different, though.

Like, you don't see LA captured this way on film anymore because you can't shoot movies here the same way.

Right.

It's harder.

Because we have a dumb mayor who won't give tax credits to have people shoot film and TV here so we can make more money.

Absolutely.

That's why she got booed at Dodger State.

That's why she got booed.

That's why.

Like, how about this?

Let's shoot movies and TV shows here.

They should do whatever they have to do to make that happen.

LA is a beautiful city.

LA is a great city with a storied tradition of shooting shit here.

Let's start making it happen again, dumbasses.

It was really nice to see L.A., though.

And so that house, which it's called the Chemisphere.

I always thought it was on Sunset because there's a house on Sunset going toward the Palisades.

That's up on Still South.

That's up.

And I was like, oh, that's the body double house.

And it's not.

It turns out that's like a river.

It's sort of like the Valley.

It's on there, like Monday.

Okay.

Yeah.

Famous house.

John thought about it.

It was on sale like, I don't know, 10 years ago or something, eight years ago while I was living here.

And it was expensive, but not as expensive as you would imagine, probably because it's not very functional, not a very efficient home to live in.

Tough room for the kids.

We have to have 700

killer to come meet us.

Yeah.

And I remember talking to Eileen and saying,

is there any chance that you would consider living here just because I love Body Double and also I love the Hollywood Hills?

I thought it would be a cool place to live.

If I had it now with a three-year-old, I would be so fucked.

So fucked up.

Oh my God.

You could never do it.

Could never do it.

It's hard to decide whether it's the best house on stilts or if that still belongs to Lethal Weapon 2, to the one that Riggs pulls down.

Good one.

Or

Neil.

Don't leave me like this.

Neil.

That house is on stilts.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Overlooking the ocean.

That house was for sale.

Like a, like a,

how did he get?

I mean, I know how he got it.

He robbed banks, but that was a great, great spot.

Really nice.

Yeah.

It's just like, do you run a credit check or what?

That's a good point.

That's a really good point.

Yeah, this is,

it's a very celebratory LA movie.

Everything, all the stuff during the day, you're just like, oh, yeah.

Although they cheat a little.

They go to Long Beach for the hotel scene.

Oh, is that where that is?

Yeah.

It makes it seem like that's in like Santa Monica or Venice or Malibu.

That's Long Beach.

So that's a good thing.

But even like the sun-baked, like the auditions that he goes to, the back lots, like all the like sort of, all that stuff is really, really well rendered.

Producer Craig.

Did you like the LA pieces of this movie?

Wonderful LA, iconic LA movie.

Okay.

Well, we're, I can't wait for your take at the end.

I don't want to, I don't want to spoil it.

The one, one of the things that I like about the LA-ness of it is, is that every

set, every place he chooses to go is in some way artificial, which is like a big part of the idea of the movie is like Tale of the Pup is this like Art Deco,

you know,

sculpture of some kind.

The Rodeo Mall is this like beautifully designed, but completely fake artificial space.

And like, those are the places he's most drawn to because that's, you know, that is what it's like.

And then the movie also will take flights of fancy where it's like, is this actually?

I mean, it's happening, but like, you know, it'll change the back projection or, you know, there's that great opening moment where the set is being moved, the desert scene, and you think it's real, and then it starts moving.

And you're like, that's everything.

Yes.

I mean, well, I have a good unanswerable question for that.

Where was the office for Linda Shaw Enterprises?

When you went into work, was it a three days a week there?

That's out back in your shed now.

That's right.

It's in the ADU.

When you're filming one day at a time.

Karen Bass has encouraged us to zone up.

You thought you would crush as one of those guys in the hot tub with her?

What was that guy's?

Oh, the guy who's interviewing me.

Sid Goldberg.

Sid Goldberg's doing incredible pod work.

Sid Goldberg almost had the damn waiters locked out.

When she's like,

I'm an expressionist.

He's like, I think you mean exhibitionist.

Can't wait to talk about him.

$10 million budget made $8.8 million.

Sad.

But it's lived on.

It bombed.

And

even when he did the documentary, he talks about it like it's just an abject failure.

And I completely disagree.

I love this movie.

Well, it's beloved now, though.

I mean, it has.

But in 2015, he was making it seem like it failed.

Like, I almost feel like once you feel like something failed, nobody will ever convince you otherwise.

That's it.

Yeah, he's also, I mean, like, when you think about the generation of filmmakers that he came up with, like, the

last third of his career is not as

heralded as Spielberg and Scorsese.

You know, it's not as

he hasn't had that like auto green light.

Here's $200 million to make your dream project, Brian DePalma.

And I don't think it's because he doesn't lack ideas.

I think it's because his kinds of movies have really fallen out of fashion.

I think he's also wildly uncompromising, doesn't play nice, talks straight.

He's not, you know, Spielberg is, you know, he's the real mayor of Los Angeles.

You know, like De Palma is the opposite.

He's dyspeptic.

He's aggressive.

He's very sure of himself.

And his hits are intermittent.

He's not consistent.

But like, I don't know.

He made Mission Impossible.

Sure.

You know what what I mean?

Like, let that guy make an action, like, why he didn't make more action movies in the 2000s.

I don't know.

He was so good at them.

It feels like as the years pass, he started to grow in stature with like future generations.

You can see, like, the late 90s guys that came up were definitely influenced by him.

I think there's another generation coming.

I think Soderberg, Fincher, Tarantino, those guys, like, there's so much boogie nights.

Yeah,

Roger Ebert.

This is this is honestly one of the greatest, greatest Ebert segments.

Three and a half stars.

We salute him.

An exhilarating exercise in pure filmmaking.

A thriller in the Hitchcock tradition.

There's no particular point except that the hero is flawed, weak, and in terrible danger, and we identify with him completely.

Pauline Kale came in and is like, hold my beer.

Yeah.

It's an awful disappointment.

Yeah.

She was like completely betrayed by De Palma, who she was a big defender of.

I like when Pauline Kale is like, I hate this, but not for the reasons you think I do.

That's always like my favorite.

This is a tough run for Pauline in that 82 to 84 range.

She became...

She's falling out of step a bit.

Yeah, she was a generation removed and super salty.

It's kind of her

Aaron Judge moment.

Yeah, that was that.

She was missing a lot of high inside Super.

Yeah, you can get the cutter past her.

Yeah.

No, but she went and tried to make that movie, right?

With Warm Beauty.

Warm Baby lured her to come out and make a movie.

And And it sent her in a five-year tailspin.

But it was like a missed on some of these.

Yeah, but like they set her up to fail, too.

And that was to kind of get back at her for being as kind of bare-knuckled as she was over the years.

Ebert, though, Ebert hates a slasher, but he's so horny.

So this is a real conundrum for him.

And the horndog wins out.

Horndog defeats the slasher.

Yes.

It would have been great if they had been done as Sisco and Ebert, where it was like Ebert and the Indian.

Sisco dressed up as that guy.

Yeah, I'm surprised that he's like, Keeper's like pure cinema, and the Indian's like, I love it.

This is Byron Mayo the Indian.

Today is the most rewatchable scene brought to you by Paramount Plus, where a mountain of movies awaits, a mountain of heart-pounding action, blockbusters like Top Gun Maverick, Mission Impossible Fallout, and Gladiator.

You guys saw Gladiator too.

We did.

We did.

Thanks for the invite.

A mountain of jump scares with thrillers like Scream Sick, Smile, and a Quiet Place Day One.

We also hung out with Denzel Washington afterwards, and he was like, where's Bill?

Great.

A Mountain of Fun for the Kiddos.

Family favorites like If Paw Patrol the movie and Dora and the Lost City of Gold.

Discover something new every single week on Paramount Plus.

Well, I have a bunch of rewatchable scenes, including.

Would you put Jake walking in on his girlfriend as a rewatchable scene?

I would.

The great Barbara Crampton, legend Barbara Crampton.

Her IMDB, she's naked coming out of the gate in the first couple, and then she settles down a little.

Salute her.

Yeah.

Reanimator from beyond.

So this guy comes home.

He's in a great mood.

Yes.

In the kitchen.

It's like a very well

scouted out location.

It's like your classic kind of long

middle-class existence.

This guy's carved out for himself by living at his girlfriend's apartment.

Yeah.

Like mid-beverly kind of location, probably second floor of a three-story thing.

And he's in there.

He's like, huh, huh you're laughing and groaning i wonder what's going on but he's got a big smile on his face the whole time coming up and surprise my wife i got onions on everything yes she's not gonna leave i'm home i'm in vampire's kiss come on and then he's just walking down this long hallway and it's like huh and he's like ah she's really having a great time in there doing something yeah that never occurs to him

Is it possible that he thinks that she's just masturbating and that he's going to lost her?

I thought he was like, she's watching like Abbott and Costello or something.

Because when you watch,

she's laughing more normally.

And then it's like when she gets there.

And

the kill shot is her kind of being like, I'm going to finish.

She's like, can you hold on?

Crucial point here.

Well, also, she communicates pretty clearly, like, it's over.

Yeah.

It's over between us.

I'm sorry.

Kind of ripped off by Paul Thomas Anderson a little bit with Boogie Nets.

Sure.

Nina Hartley.

Yeah.

Oh, he's doing the same exact, almost like the same angle.

Yeah.

Fortunately,

Craig Wasson did not put a gun in his mouth, you know, unlike Little Bill.

That's right.

Tough, uh, tough reaction for

Jake, but kind of establishes this guy sucks.

Yeah.

This guy's just going to worm backwards out and then go to Barney's beanery and and uh lose his edge lose his edge yeah anyway uh never been to barney's beanery i have not been there at 1 p.m drinking shots of jack i'll tell you that yeah

next one jake's first time at the house sitting place

where we get to see the house okay so you're skipping over what am i skipping tell me the method acting class i want you to cry out

I can't have a sardine.

Am I supposed to...

Sardines in a canner, Dick.

They can't feel.

They can't be afraid.

But you're alive and afraid you're not a goddamn dead sardine

big child cake

cry out

okay i don't love the acting teacher but that's a good

important scene you're right so i it's an important scene that i don't like like i don't think that scene works but it's hugely important to the movie yeah because sam identifies i just don't like the teacher in that one yeah yes this guy's trapped yes the la here's my house

i gotta gotta take off for five weeks just gotta water these plants what is it what cr was dying for something like this to happen when he moved here in 2011.

yeah i i thought it was gonna yeah milestowers gotta take off for five weeks you had this you were in 1010 wilshire for like three months for i was only there for the the month but we stayed the full month even after our i thought it was longer than a month i think it was only a month but it was like our apartment was like ready and our landlord was like, It's all set, you can move in.

And we were like, We're good.

We're living in like a loft apartment above the 110.

Did you stay because you were peeping across the street?

Yeah, she's like, She's got a telescope,

and then we get the old, uh, yeah, it's a great show here every night at 9 p.m.

The neighbor just does the strip tease for no reason.

See her?

Whoa,

whoa,

gets better.

What's she doing?

keep watching you'll see when it gets

oh

uh she's a little out of focus yes yes yes hang on

she do this a lot like clockwork every night

every night

She just does a little dance.

Dance plays with herself.

He's not like what?

I would have so many questions.

I would be like, wait a second.

Yeah.

9 p.m.

Is it like Monday through Thursday?

Is it seven days a week?

Does she stop to watch taxi?

So what's going on?

Who's the show for?

Is it for you?

Is it the same spot?

Like, where's her husband?

I would have had 40 questions.

He fortunately only begins explaining those things once Jake gets a look at what's going on.

And you could have said anything to him in that moment and he would have accepted it because he's enraptured by what's happening.

He's an emasculated.

Well, he's also like, I've gone from living on some guy's sofa at Hollywood Tower, another great LA location for the movie, to living in this lap of luxury, which I guess must be the ongoing, never-ending dream that you can go from nothing to everything overnight here.

It's a cool setup.

Circle bed, rotating circle bed, telescope with a neighbor who masturbates at nine o'clock every night.

He's like, I'm good.

I accept.

So I just got to water these plants.

i don't know where did you park in that place uh on the bottom of the street there was like that guy at the bottom and getting the funicular funicular yeah i really thought the plants thing was going to come back yeah it's chekhov's it's it's weird it doesn't really ever no they really

don't let these plants die yeah i was like oh he's not gonna water the plants something will happen i think that's supposed to be to keep him home Like have him come home some point after 6 p.m.

every day so he waters the plants and he's like really taking it seriously.

The other funny thing about it is that like his alcoholism or whatever is mentioned briefly in that Barney's Beanery scene, but then the rest of the movie, he pretty much is just getting jet, like, sloshed.

Right.

He's just drinking cores and watching porn.

Yeah.

He's looking at his watch.

It's like, it's 8:44,

16 minutes.

Better drink a bottle of champagne and get into this rotating bed.

Time for the show.

Fucking weird housewife across the way.

This is a real, like, could not be made in 2024 movie in so many ways.

Yeah.

Because you can't even explain it.

Like, there's everything about it is like what?

The plotting is so stupid.

Well, and then later when he's leaving and the Indian's like down

kind of stalking and there's the tree in the street and it's just like, how did all of that stuff happen at the same time?

But how did they know he was going to leave?

Does the Indian know that Jake is going to be able to see him spying?

And how does he know that?

I have a lot of questions.

Yeah.

Well, Jake starts trailing the dancing housewife is our next re-watchable scene goes to the rodeo collection indoor outdoor mall which my wife uh is a huge fan of that mall she wanted to me to mention that in the pod before she stormed off um he's the most obvious worst stalker slash follower probably ever he doesn't even talk into the payphone he just picks it up he's just like staring like at her like while she's talking It's actually like he should be probably thrown in jail.

He's so crazy.

They stop him.

Yeah, they stop him.

Pulls, takes the panties out of the garbage can at one point chris what did you think of pinot diagio score during this beautiful okay yeah i know you're a big pinot fan well i was gonna say i know that we have great shot gordo coming up and we have a rewatchable scene here this is six steve sequence steven for steven broome the guy director of photography just all of the stuff of them at the payphone, going up the escalators, the cameras like roving around, finding one person, going over to another.

It's so great.

Yeah, and like nothing's happening and it's so much fun to watch.

The every piece of it is like mesmerizing and literally nothing's happening.

She's just walking around a mall.

It feels very much like a continuation or a sequel to the museum sequence and at the beginning of Just the Kill, you know, where it's just like he's just trailing someone and you don't really totally know why, but you know something is wrong.

Something is off.

You can't figure out what it's going to be.

And there's so there's like tension, but fascination.

And like you said, Deborah Shelton is like, She's like a, like, uh, you had to imagine her.

You know what I mean?

She's like so perfect looking that you're entranced by what you're watching but it feels unreal if she showed up at like your dinner party you'd be like what's going on exactly who looks like this uh we also have claustrophobia in the elevator that's one of one do your face

the claustrophobia music's good too the dunnet yeah

there's too many people in the elevator i'm in a coffin and i don't like it

we also get a really good creepy shot when she's trying on the underwear and he's getting a good look and he's like,

he's looking around and like really peeking in.

He's such a creep in the user.

Yeah, it's the best is like you watch half this movie and then when the cop shows up, he's just like, you're a gross little peeper, aren't you?

Yeah.

And you're, and as the viewer you're watching going, eh, some solid points.

Do you think De Palma is saying it's not that weird to do this?

Like he's saying

we do it.

It's just this guy is doing it 8% more.

Like this guy can't help his obsession so he's stopping you know it's like you may see somebody beautiful at a shopping mall and they're like oh that person just walked by he's like the extra eight percent of like i'm gonna watch her go into victoria's secret see i disagree i think his thing is

this guy's a creep and he's like all of you want us to keep following this lady around and you're a creepy guy right exactly you're also a creep that's a good point you're really enjoying this that's what i agree with you and i he's like flipping it on the viewer right Yes, I think so.

But ultimately, when you get to the bottom of that, it's like, if we're all creeps, no one is a creep.

I think that's what he's doing.

It's his perspective.

I think.

Per snatch beach chase scene.

Long beach.

There's some incredible movie running in this sequence.

Realistic, though.

Yeah.

Where it's like, if you were running, you'd get tired.

Well, the hotel is really cool.

I like that.

All of a sudden, it feels like we're in like Italy or Greece or something, where it's like the decks, each deck comes out further than the last one.

Somehow he's able to just walk up and uh listen to her phone call.

At all,

she seems non-plussed by this guy who's now followed her all the way to wherever.

She's like, You've been following me all day.

And then the creepy tunnel.

Is this your great shot?

Gordo?

My great shot, Gordo is the diopter shot of the two of them at the payphone.

That was that was from the from the valet over this weird tunnel where it like tunnels off.

Yeah, tunnel's cool.

And more and more claustrophobia.

Greg Henry starts touchdown celebration hitting him.

He's like Kyle Pince, he's like throwing the ball up in the air.

And then we get the 360 degree makeout scene, which is just ridiculous.

Yeah, that's when you're just like, am I having an aneurysm?

Like, what's going on?

Or is this real?

But just pure Hitchcock, though, where like you're in the middle of a Hitchcock movie and you're following the plot and you're like, okay, this is going along.

I'm trying to figure out what's going on here.

And then something happens and you're like, what?

Yeah.

And it takes a minute for your brain to figure out if you're in a dream sequence or not.

What's he trying to do with the things going in circles?

Well, he does get something

with the camera angle.

What is it about him in circles?

It sweeps, it sweeps up the audience.

How does a film reel work?

Yeah,

the murder scene

controversial.

People were like, it's phallic.

He's like, it's a drill.

I thought it would be cool.

Yeah, he was like, I wanted the drill to be long enough to go through the floor.

Legitimately on the list of greatest kills in movie history.

And you never see the drill go in.

No.

It's so, so fucking funny now that he has to plug it in and that he has to keep plugging the drill in.

Yeah.

It makes it.

Oh, hold on.

There's an outlet over there.

Hold on.

Can you just stay there in the bed?

But it's weird because, like, it's just, this is an inexplicable plot thing.

Why the, why he has the drill, why he's going to use the drill.

He's the one that just stabbed her drilling like the satellite.

But like, he originally starts by strangling her with the cord, which is a callback to dial in for murder, which is like how the murder happens in that movie.

So if he was going to strangle her, why does he have the drill in that space in this elaborate setup that he's created to market?

It's like De Palma wants to just take Hitchcock and just make it super crazy.

It's just totally.

It's exactly what it is.

It's like Hitchcock mixtape.

She doesn't run.

They both get knocked out basically in the bed.

And then she just wakes up.

She's like, I'm going to call 911 with my back to him.

Yeah, but I'm out of breath.

This would go great.

I thought the drill was so he could like break into the safe in the house to be a purported robber.

Right.

But like, there's that great bit about how drills like that, you can't break into metal.

You can only drill wood with an auger bit like that.

you can't actually drill into metal like a cop would know that in five seconds like you can't break into a safe with a drill that looks like stupid robber but that's why you had it i guess well uh the palma said the drill had to be long for the specific reason that it had to go through the floor and then be long enough going through the floor that it would drip blood i love the blood dripping and the white dog on top of him is so fun great job by the dog yeah yeah like borderline brandy booth dog performance also incredibly pivotal in the two biggest scenes of the movie in Glorious Death and then in the end, the second to last scene.

That's right.

Yeah.

Next one.

The Sid Goldberg show.

So Jake comes back home and he's like, I'm going to put in some porn.

You're working on Linda Shaw Enterprises.

What are some of those enterprises?

We have a film, Deep Ghost, The Mating Game.

The Mating Game.

One Night at a Time.

One Night at a Time, yes.

And I believe you have a film opening up this week at the Pussy Flick Theater.

Yeah,

Deep Ghost is sick.

That's really good.

It's also so great because it's her and it's her nipple and stuff.

And then it finally pans out.

This guy is like this

half-new dude.

He's like,

he goes, what happens when you get hot?

And she goes, oh, it makes me want to come.

Well, why are you coming, Linda?

Why don't we watch this clip?

That's just, that's just good podcasting.

That's a great segue.

It's a great throw.

So, Sid Goldberg show, he throws

a trailer, which was a huge thing in the early 80s, mid-80s of Holly Dest Hollywood, which starts out with the guy coming in and going, five minutes, Miss Body.

And she thinks it's like, oh, it's time to do this scene.

He's like, no.

I mean, we have five minutes.

It's fucking great.

DePaul is like, you can tell he studied the porn in the 80s for months and months to get all this right.

And then they have the trailer and it's got stuff like, Screw magazine says Holly Body keeps his business where it belongs in the gutter.

All the quotes are

so good.

This whole scene is

unbelievable.

Like to the moon, once it gets into the porn industry.

Like the video store, the trailer, like everything about it, the set, the casting.

You mentioned PTA, but I mean,

there's so much that is pulled out of this that is put into Boogie Nights.

It's outrageous.

This part, especially with Sid Goldberg, who was played by by an actor, by the way.

There wasn't actually a star.

Oh, yeah.

I figured.

But Linda Shaw was

a real star.

There's a couple of porn stars in this.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, tackling all of them.

Tackling them out of the world.

Parranking me.

Para ranking.

Next one is the relaxed porn video, which is just incredible.

It was incredible in 1984.

So what, like the first time you saw it, you react?

What did you?

think was happening.

So this was the first time I had ever seen somebody correctly take like an MTV video and put it in a movie or a TV show in a way that it felt like MTV.

And it was an even better version of it.

Right.

And then Miami Vice started doing it.

But this was right.

It was like this Body Double and Miami Vice like were the first two that were like, everything you like about MTV, I'm now going to put into your movie.

Yeah.

Relax, come to ask when you wanna go to ask.

Relax, come to ask.

When you wanna go,

relax.

It's so, it's such an interesting example of the way that De Palma's brain works.

Because for a lot of people, if you were like, I want to put a band in my movie, you'd think that they would go, well, what kind of music do I like?

What kind of energy do I want the song to have for the sequence?

But he's thinking specifically about like the visual filmmaking.

And what so he watches MTV for like a year.

Yeah.

Not with the intention to be like, here's my musical taste, but just to be like, what does a music video feel like?

And how could I take my skills and make it even better?

And make it into a porno.

Right.

And make make it lurid, make it my stuff.

And Frankie Goes to Hollywood also was, you know, very sexual as band.

But nobody knew who the fuck they were until really 1984.

So he also had to have the foresight of being like, these guys, something's here.

This is one of the biggest alternative songs at 84.

I'm

a perfect song for the sequence.

I have the Dracula the Musical Award for best imitation of real art, which we rarely get to give out.

Putting that here.

Kid Cuddy Pursuit of Happiness Award, of course, Needle Drop.

No question.

Sorry, Pino.

If you're going to nitpick, the scene is just too good for our 1984 porn.

Yeah.

I mean, this would have been.

This would have been the greatest, most elaborate porn scene ever filmed.

It's so funny because it's like De Palma and PTA can't help themselves.

No, they're just going all in it.

They're doing it.

It's like, why is there a Norma Desmond

impersonator at the beginning of that music video sequence from Sunset Boulevard?

And then PTA steals the...

Yo, where's the come shot?

Yeah.

I know.

Yeah.

After it was the same thing as Dirk Diggler's first Amber Wave scene.

This whole scene is amazing.

It's so strange though.

Like it must, I'm curious to hear Craig.

We could go to Craig now.

Craig, what'd you think when this porn video just dropped because like you clearly grew up with MTV?

Yeah, not really.

That's so crazy.

I didn't, well, like while watching the movie, I was like, is this a dream sequence?

I didn't quite know what was going on.

And then you realize, oh, this is like him acting and like doing this whole other plot.

I don't know, man.

I find it to be incredibly entertaining.

I think it's something that you don't see now.

I loved it.

I found it to be very, very compelling.

Good answer.

Compelling and rich.

Well,

just

when you thought the movie couldn't get any better, now Jake is pretending to be a producer and has a date with Holly where she says, I do not do animal acts.

I do not do SM or any variations of that particular bet.

No water sports either.

I will not shave my pussy.

No fist fucking and absolutely no cumming in my face.

I get $2,000 a day and I do not work without a contract.

And it's like all of Hollywood was like.

Yeah, slow clap, slow clap.

And then she delivers it like she's done it 5,000 times.

Yeah, yeah, you know, it's like a bunch of people.

It's her cycle spiel.

And he's like, okay, done.

And then she like puts her.

How much favorite pretending to be a porn producer?

Is it Scully or is it George C.

Scott from Harvard?

George C.

Scott.

No question.

No question.

And do you think Schrader and De Palma like were comparing notes?

Fist bumps?

Yeah.

I think DePalma saw the Jim Jism scene and was like, I got to take that one up a notch.

They run into Kimberly Hess.

You know, Simon Lafar is just casting his next picture.

But that woman.

You might want to firm up a little bit.

What does that even mean?

That woman is a porn star, right?

I think that actress is a porn star, which is why that's such a clever scene.

Oh, I didn't.

That wasn't American.

Her name is Rebecca Stanley.

Wait, the woman who's like,

what are you working on?

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

That's so funny.

Te Palma.

He's great.

He's fucking with people.

And then.

Do you have a lot of physical media starring?

Stanley?

If people want to send it to me, I'm willing to receive it.

4K restoration.

Send it to CR's house.

Yeah.

And Jake blows it with Holly for some reason, says he's not a producer.

And then she storms out.

And that leads to the Reservoir Battle, which is another possible Great Shock Order award where how they do the coffin.

This might be the most nitpicked moment of incinerate history for me.

It's just like everything about this.

Like, I know you go along with it as the fantasy, but the last part is like, you're like, what is happening?

Sam's whole plan, I just, I have no idea what's going on.

Why did he dig a 30-foot grave at the at the crest of a reservoir?

It's going to erode at some point, right?

Sam was just a terrible murderer.

Yeah.

We'll get into that later in nitpicks.

What's your most re-watchable?

I think it's probably

the

casting of him getting cast and then the Frank Who Goes to Hollywood scene.

I think the scene I've re-watched the most is the Frank Who Goes to Hollywood scene because it was the video as well.

So you saw it all the time growing up.

I think the follow is probably my favorite scene in the movie.

I like everything from when he sees the porn video all the way through to the first date.

I think it's just elite.

But I like this whole movie.

It's really hard to pick.

And that's it for...

Today's most rewatchable scene brought to you by Paramount Plus.

From action blockbusters to throwers to favorite for the whole family.

Find something new to watch every week.

A mountain of movies awaits on Paramount Plus.

I don't think they have one day at a time or deep ghost.

Plans start at $7.99 a month.

Start streaming now.

Let's take a break.

This episode is brought to you by Angry Orchard.

Rewatch your favorite horror movies with this perfect drink that's crisp and refreshing, but not too sweet.

Don't get angry that you already know the twist ending or who dies or in what order.

Just slash open Angry Orchard's brand new Halloween thriller pack made in partnership with the Jason Universe, featuring killer flavors like Berry Bewitched and Headless Pumpkin.

Don't get angry.

Get Orchard.

Find Angry Orchard near you this Halloween season.

Angry Orchard Cider Company, LLC AngryOrchard.com.

Please drink responsibly.

Angry Orchard is a hard cider with other natural flavors.

This episode is brought to you by LinkedIn Ads.

The best B2B marketing gets wasted on the wrong people.

So when you want to reach the right professionals use linkedin ads linkedin has grown to a network of over 1 billion professionals and 130 million decision makers and that's where it stands apart from other ad buys you could target your buyers by job title industry company role seniority skills company revenue so you can stop wasting budget on the wrong audience It's why LinkedIn Ads generates the highest B2B return on ad spend of all online ad networks.

Seriously, all of them.

Spend $250 in the first campaign on LinkedIn Ads.

Get a free free $250 credit for the next one.

Just go to linkedin.com slash rewatch.

Terms and conditions apply.

What's the most 1984 thing about this movie?

I would narrow it down to either putting a music video inside the movie or porn video stores that are like

power records almost.

Specifically, the adult section of us video stores.

I also love that he goes up to the one clerk who's like, yes, I do have that on multiple formats.

Let me take you to it.

Yeah, but he's kind of annoyed too.

Yeah, but he's like, I also have like the works of like Visconti over here, but I will take you to go get a hole in the middle.

Two Italian master references.

That's pod, yeah.

Digging in your bed, eco CR.

What's aged the best?

Uh, young Melanie Griffith just looks great.

She's been in our lives now for four decades, but it's really fun to see her in this and then uh something wild too.

Same thing.

You're like, wow.

Very similar characters.

How much Craig Wasson looks like Bill Maher crossed with

Brecken Meyer.

That's aged very well.

Yeah.

Barney's Beanery.

Fun that that's still kicking all these years later.

Linda Shaw finally getting her props.

It's about time.

The Hakeem Elajuan of 80s Porn.

Is that what is that?

Two titles?

What are you implying there?

Oh, just, you know, incredible grace and length.

Hall of Famer, legend, and not the school.

Does a retired Linda Shaw have like a big man school?

Like where she should?

Was she a two-way player?

Oh, just, you know, i feel like she should have been up there with the greats who is patrick ewing annette haven like who we'll get to later in this movie but i thought she should have been up there uh movies where someone walks in on their girlfriend riding a dude

what's the number one for this probably i mean old school is pretty high up there that's a good one

it's really more of like a

That's really more of like a, you know, that's more of like a roleplay thing.

Yeah.

Has there ever been a movie where somebody just gets mad and just comes flying in going after the guy?

No, actually, everyone always backs up, yeah.

There's nobody's ever like I'm grabbing a bat, and there's a really famous example of this.

I'm trying to remember what it is.

Well, sideways has the peeping on them doing it, but not that's not a walk-in.

No, like on your walking in, on your girlfriend, I can't remember what it is.

There's there's a very, very, very famous example of this.

This will be a good audience participation thing.

Feel free to hit us.

Um, DM Sean.

This is

this is for CR, for what stage the best.

Sober people falling off the wagon and ordering multiple drinks from a horrified bartender and saying stuff like, I thought you were a bartender, not a priest.

So I guess those guys are friends, but it is incredibly funny when Scully walks in and orders the shot of Jack Daniels and Doug, who's the like the bartender is just like, I thought she stopped drinking.

It's like, what's he doing here at 1 a.m.?

What do you think?

He's here for the 2 p.m.

Do you have any active friends who are bartenders?

Who you like sit down and you're like, oh, it's Steve's here.

Yeah, I mean, I have not at this point.

Now, you have a bar back home.

Yeah.

Take that out of my own.

I don't know.

I mean, I was like just like a big patron.

Right.

You a bar you go to.

That's where you have bad brother.

I go there all the time.

But in LA, is there a bar you can walk into and sit down and be like, old CR is back?

The usual CR.

Yo, CR.

You don't have to.

How's Liverpool doing?

You want to have margarita?

That'll be $27.

The My Neighbor is Stripping Music in this.

This is what was used in air, right?

Yes.

It's that music.

The Palma did not like it.

I will coming up later.

What do you have for what's it the best?

The Peter meter.

What do you think that was that she did?

Was it just that dance?

Was there anything else on top of that?

That's just so great that it was her routine.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But what else is in the root?

Is it, it can't just be that dance.

I think that's her move.

Okay.

Just dancing?

Yeah.

Okay.

Then she does the bend over.

Yeah.

Back up.

Does this some more bend over again?

Roll over.

Definitely not.

I also really love when Sam is like, I've had some creative differences with the Seattle repertory.

Like it's such a bullshit reason.

But yeah, this is my two.

Vampire's Kiss became an actual movie with Nicholas Cage.

apparently titled after this movie it's a fake movie bready stonellis's american psycho this was patrick baby bateman's favorite movie talked about it over and over he rented it 37 times on video cassette porn actress holly body took her stage name from this movie one of your faves what a ripple effect big career for her it's incredible uh dakota johnson's mom is melanie griffith that's a good let's age the best she's made some kind of kinky movies melany griffith's mom is tippy hedron who starred in the hitchcock movies an incredible lineage And I would say it's the best.

I mean, this movie as a standalone being a flop and then becoming literally one of the most influential movies of the 1980s, I think, on a generation of filmmakers and on a generation of extremely horny dudes who don't have access to porn.

Yeah.

Straight up.

Yeah.

I also think just self-applying three and a half hours of makeup to become the Indian must be really high.

It must aged the best.

I would say the Indian has not aged well.

No doubt.

Fortune 3 Clap Award for Most Gifable moment.

Probably CR doing his imitation of Craig Wasson and claustrophobia.

The Petermeter routine is very good.

Great shot order award recovered.

So Danet Thieves Benny Hawn Award for scene stealing location is obviously the house.

It's called the Chemisphere, located just off Mahollen Drive in Hollywood Hills.

Once described by Encyclopedia Britannica as the most modern home built in the world, built in 1960 by architect John Lautner.

I have no idea how much it's worth now.

Seems like a a pretty weird place to live.

I thought it was on sale for like 1.5 in the 2010s.

They, uh, they, did you see that the Elliott Gould apartment from long go by was for sale?

I did.

But it's actually kind of beat up a little bit, right?

This was a couple of years ago.

Okay.

The best thing that's ever been for sale, and I have a lot of regrets, is the Boogie Knights House.

Is that in Tosana?

No.

Is it worth it?

No, it was in.

It's further away, right?

Inland Empire, kind of?

It was going toward where Zoe used to play soccer.

Okay.

For over there for

like 35 minutes.

You seriously thought about it.

Well, we thought about could we just, this is when we were on our own.

Could we just film ringer videos from the Boogie Nights house?

And then we realized how stupid that was.

Yeah.

I'm ready to shoot, Bill.

It's in Covina.

Covina.

Covina.

Yeah, yeah.

It's West Covina.

The Butch's Girlfriend Award, week link of the film.

CR mentioned it earlier.

The reservoir ending is just ridiculous.

Yeah.

It's like they kind of ran out of time and they were like, did you come up with this?

It's just

it's when someone on set or the screenwriter or somebody needed to like grab BDP and just be like, hey, man, like this is

going to look cool, but makes no sense.

Yeah.

He says that the location scout found this spot and he was like, what do you think of this spot?

And he's like, that's cool.

I want to do something there.

So they basically bend the movie around finding this reservoir.

That's just

cinema ahead of story.

That's kind of how he thinks.

Yeah.

And it also turns, that's where the movie sort of like detaches from reality because like, Jake has the, the, the sort of weird dream sequence where he's telling off reuben but it has not yet been rehired then he like climbs out of a seemingly like bottomless grave that this guy has been digging but it's just a very strange moment and the white flash of the backlight like for a second there but some of the staging especially the dog breaking out of the car and jumping on sam is like awesome yeah great little action sequence

tough beat for the dog Yeah, I think it's the same dog.

I think he said this from the Sam Fuller movie White Dog, which is about a racist dog, a dog that is trained to be racist.

I don't know if you guys have seen that dog.

White Dog?

The dog lives.

The dog lives.

Oh, it does?

In my mind, it does.

Dogs live.

It's a beautiful dog.

I think Sam died, but the dogs.

But the dog just swam off to freeze.

Sam can't swim.

What's the story there?

I don't know that wrote that.

That's quite a distance.

Those reservoirs are tough.

It's a lot of holes.

What's Age of Worst?

Mentioned the acting class teacher.

Calling the killer the Indian throughout the movie.

Probably not getting away with that anymore.

Not enough cocaine for me.

I needed, needed somebody doing some bumps somewhere, maybe on the Barney Spinery bar.

It's a very chaste porn environment where nobody seems to be high.

The porn set.

I just feel like cocaine is everywhere when they're filming this movie and to pretend it wasn't was a weird choice.

Linda Shaw seems a little disassociated during her season.

Yeah, no question.

And then

Jake not having sex with Holly and just spilling the beans.

Still don't understand that plan might have brought it up maybe during coffee the next day hey you know what well that's the whole point of his character right he's to lose our daddy yeah what do you have anything uh i wish i had a mug with me but the way that jake drinks coffee at the farmer's market is like this he puts the backstage like the theater guy down he just goes like this

like he's drinking soup

And it's just like, this guy needs to get cheated on more.

You know what I mean?

Jake sucks.

Like, Like, it's so annoying.

There should have been two guys in that game.

I think that for his, as idiosyncratic as it is, and with no disrespect to him, this Craig Wasson's whole vibe is probably why this film is not as popular as it possibly could have been.

Yeah.

Because it's just like, that's a very difficult character to spend two hours with.

Like his performance.

It's part of it.

I think there's also just like.

a surreal satirical tone that's pretty hard to wrap your head around if you don't already want to be like look at naked Melanie Griffith or whatever other draws the movie might have.

The other thing that's Age of the Worst is just Sam's conspiracy/slash plan.

Like, what was he?

He seems like he did the most complicated version of Killing Your Wife.

I have a lot of nitpicks for this later.

I think also what's Age of the Worst is dating this movie to come out the same day as The Terminator.

Is that true?

And

a significant actor in that movie passed on this movie reportedly to do the Terminator.

Yeah, yeah.

Ruff Lohan and the

yeah rough ohana rubinik partridge over acting a word they knew and they let it happen don't you call me lady i come in here i give these things to you give me all your god this and give me all your gut

i treated you like a son you stabbed me in the heart

you

you

I'm going with the police detective who gives Jake shit after the murder.

So you're supposed to tell me,

like, what is that guy?

Come on, Scully, tell the truth.

You fucked her and you kept him for a souvenir.

No.

No, what?

No, you didn't fuck her?

No, you didn't keep him as a souvenir.

What are you both of them?

Oh, maybe you're just a harmless panty sniffer.

Is that it?

Oh, you got a dirty mind.

That's a laugh.

You peep on her, you follow her, you fuck her, you keep her little panties as a memento, and then you take a seat on a 50-yard line of the game.

Why should you stay around?

That's not what happened.

I tried to save her.

What performance is that?

Doesn't it seem though like he is a cop in a Hitchcock movie from 1942?

You're a peeper.

In my book, that's a pervert and a sex offender.

It's like, okay, thanks for the definition.

He's, it's just a weird

two bad actors.

It's so funny because, like, the guy is just like, oh, yeah, Scully, what's that?

And like, he just tells him the whole plot of like,

it's so weird.

I, I almost would have had, rather had like Leslie Nielsen as the cop and just had somebody who was kind of like secretly funny.

Was there a better title for this movie?

No way.

The CR thinks Luke Wilson could have been Harrison Ford hottest take award.

What do you have, CR?

I think if I'm Jake after my first two days in the porn industry, I just stay.

Like, I just think that that's like the growth industry for him.

He's never, he's already doing on-camera feature work and pornography after one audition.

Like, he could have been the Harrison Ford of 80s porn.

Gotta stay work on the cum shots.

Yeah, he might have to work on the cumbersome shots.

Yeah.

But I thought that I...

Pulling out, aiming,

just a lot of stuff that...

It's an art form.

And if he has to do a come shot in any kind of tight space, who knows how the claustrophobia kicks in?

But I thought he seemed like a natural and he should have stuck with it.

And now he's got the chemisphere to shoot in.

Yeah.

Right.

Exactly.

All-time porn set.

Yeah.

Very true.

My hottest take is.

confirmation that I will never be running for public office, but I think we should be having unsimulated sex

in movies.

Like, I really think if the actors want to do that, that's going to make the movie more interesting.

It's weird that that's still like the final frontier.

It is the last thing you can't do.

Yeah.

A couple like really.

Like, we, like, Terrifier 3 can happen, which is way crazy in terms of what is portrayed.

Well, think about the Chloe Sevenu piece of this.

Yeah.

The brown bunny.

Yeah.

I mean, that

basically ruined her career for a couple years.

She's back.

But that was also 20-plus years.

But that was considered the most transgressive thing that a famous person could do in a movie, pretty much ever.

There's the rumors, you know, about like Don't Look Now, for example, that Todd Sutherland and Julie Christie were having sex in that scene and unconfirmed.

And there have been some suggestions over the years that there are some scenes where the actors are having sex.

I'm sure that's true.

They always said that with Alec Baldwin and Kim Basinger.

Didn't we do a real

war where we were basically like Teen Wolf?

Yeah.

They said Michael J.

Fox with the wolf costume on.

Yeah.

One of the actresses was like, I got to get in on that.

Yeah.

Was unsimulated.

Didn't he have a wolf cock?

Unsimulated.

unsimulated holy shit

i'm i'm with you on this thank you it is the last frontier

my uh hottest take it's mild uh i think this is the best integration of the porn world into a mainstream movie ever this just how they do it it's not the whole movie we just dip into this for 15 minutes and every beat of it is absolutely perfect including sid goldberg and that whole show i mean we're out it's like he has mastered that idiom.

It's so good.

It's a whole separate movie in the movie, which are sometimes my favorite movies where it's like this, we're in this whole world for 15 minutes.

I'm like, this is, let's go, let's go into this world.

This is cool.

Boogie Knights.

Boogie Knights, but yeah.

Hardcore.

Zach and Miriam make a porno.

Wonderland, right?

Wonderland.

Eight millimeter.

Eight millimeter.

Or gas.

Specific kind of.

The Trey Parker Matt Stone movie.

What are some other movies that are set in the world of porn?

There's more.

Zach and whatever.

Yeah,

that one was awful.

Yeah, Kevin Smith.

There's not really not that many.

There's a couple more that I'm forgetting.

People vs.

Larry Flint.

Sure.

It's kind of like that.

Yeah.

Casting what-ifs.

De Palma thought about, there's been a lot of like conflicting research about this, but he thought about a very famous porn star named Manette Haven

to play Holly Body

and

met her, spent a lot of times with her, gave her stuff to read.

Spent a lot of times with her.

He said she'd never been given lines.

I sort of sent her to acting school.

I videotaped her doing long interviews.

Some of the things she said were put into Holly Body's dialogue.

I ultimately tested her, and the only other girl I wanted to play the part was Melanie Griffith, Melody Blue Out of the Sky.

Then the Palma says, strangely enough, Annette wasn't that sexy, but I used Annette to give us advice while we were shooting the film.

Annette Haven, also a huge influence on Boogie Nights and appears in boogey nights yeah it seems like the directors loved her and then when they met her they were like eh

i get the impression she's just very smart and a great comedian very smart yeah like kind of low energy which for a movie like this you needed i the one of the great things about holly body is she's so funny and quirky sure yeah yeah

so he then offered the role to linda hamilton who turned it down and did terminator instead what a fucking what if that is crazy sliding door crazy one could melanie griffith have been in the terminator

jesus Wow.

Probably not, but maybe.

But yeah, like I, it's, it's like, I don't think I would have thought of Linda Hamilton as like as Sarah Connor before that.

You know, exactly.

And you think of, when you hear Sarah Connor, you think of T2 and when she's all jacked, but she's not like that in the first terminator.

She's like a waitress or something.

Yeah.

It's a good slide indoors for Linda Hamilton's career because if she's in this movie first, I don't know what happens after that.

She might go away.

Yeah.

I think it all played out great.

The Jamie Lee Curtis story story is like that he basically asked melanie griffith to introduce him to jamie lee curtis jamie lee curtis says no and melanie griffith is like well why don't you just let me read for it right there's yeah that there's her carrie fisher tatum o'neal were like

considered okay but who knows as as as we know at the casting wood ifs as the years pass they just start throwing names everybody in this town was interesting diane lane looked at it like you just never know carrie fisher has a very different energy from melanie griffith but she does have the holly body attitude, you know, like smart, cynical.

Yeah.

You know, that would have been interesting.

It's actually kind of the role she should have done after the three Star Wars movies.

Something to break the archetype.

Because you always like

that.

If, like, she, is she ever in another in the sequel Star Wars movies?

I think the start, the sequels were done, though.

No, I mean, the ones that just that she did at the end of her life.

If she sullies her reputation.

I don't know.

She, she made some weird movies after Star Wars.

Because

I think she should have made movies like like this.

I think she was a way more interesting actress than the Total She.

I totally agree.

De Palma really wanted Sylvia Christelle for the role of Gloria Revelle, who played Emmanuel in all those movies.

She was a pretty big softcore porn actress.

Speaking of European erotic thrillers, she's unavailable.

And then speaking to her in the Golan Globus documentary, which I watched for over the top.

Was loving you and Kyle praising that doc.

I thought it's a bad doc.

But they have a whole Sylvia Christel section about how she had like a drinking problem and was like messed up on the set.

So I don't know if that would work for Gloria.

And then they, they, uh,

Helen Shaver's dubbing the lines for Deborah Shelton, as we discussed.

Real life porn actresses of the movie.

The great Linda Shaw, Alexandra Day, Carol Lott, Melissa Scott, Barbara Peckinpaugh, and Annette Habin.

And then Stephen Bauer as a cameo, as a male porn actor in the big scene.

Is it Michael Kearns, the guy who's like, I'm not just a stuntcock?

Yeah.

That guy's actually a porn actor, too.

Yeah.

He's your favorite porn actor.

Yeah.

Hey, we never get to give this one out either.

The Clint Howard Award for director loves this guy.

Dennis Franz and De Palma.

Five straight films together.

What about Greg Henry?

Greg Henry, first of five with De Palma.

I was thinking if I was a famous director, I would 100% do this.

I would have like my five or six.

You got to have your guys.

Yeah.

Yeah.

My guys, my ladies.

Chino, De Niro, and then Joe House.

So many of my favorite directors do this.

Yeah.

You know, like Preston Sturgis does this, or you have your troop, you have your four or five people.

Chris Guest did this.

Yeah.

PTA's kind of done this.

Absolutely.

Sparse Azey has guys that he goes back to over and over again.

Yeah.

Best That Guy Award.

Is Greg Henry that guy, or is he Greg Henry?

I think the number three guy in this movie.

If you're a De Palma fan, he's Greg fucking Henry.

I think he's Greg Henry.

If you don't know De Palma movies, you're like, that's the guy from the thing that I can't.

Yeah.

So what do you think it is about him that De Palma is so attracted to?

That he looks like John Tesh.

I think he's

like this.

He almost always plays a very untrustworthy guy.

Yeah.

You know, a guy who's like really kind of slimy.

And I think DePaulman needs those guys in his movies.

He was the kind of guy when I was growing up would have been the guy on Charlie's Angels who got involved with Cheryl Ladd in the first half hour, but then it turned out he was the bad guy.

Like he had that.

There was just specific actors who just got pigeonholed as those guys.

Uh, my vote for best that guy is Larry Flash Jenkins,

who was in season three of the White Shadow.

He was in Fletch as the guy with George Went, who was involved in the drug scheme.

He's the guy,

yeah.

Yeah, he's just in a lot of these movies, and uh, he plays Dennis Franz's like assistant director or keeper.

Yeah, right.

Deion Waiter's Award.

I mean, Barbara Crampton is another one who

best that guy.

Crampton, Crampton's look that like just kills Scully.

But she's not of that that guy.

No, for Dion.

Or for Dion.

Okay.

Let me give you all the nominees.

Dennis Franz, eligible.

Okay.

Frankie from Frankie Goes to Hollywood.

Yeah.

Linda Shaw.

The body double in the end credits.

Or my choice for winner, porn video host, Sid Goldberg.

Goldberg's a good shout.

I like Goldberg.

I did not know that man's name.

You made it sound like he was like a legend in the industry.

I never heard of that.

I did not make it sound like that.

You're like, that's Sid Goldberg.

I have the box set.

And I believe you have a film opening this week at the Pussy Flick Theater.

Sid Goldberg, if there are deleted seeds of Sid Goldberg, send them my way, please.

Can you imagine being like, you know, like, hey, can I get you a coffee?

It's like, shh, Goldberg's on.

I got to find out what's opening at the Pussy Flick.

They used to have, remember I told you guys about WHT?

That was like the HBO and

how there were movies that were on and they would be first-run movies.

They used to have at 11 o'clock, they used to have a porn talk show hosted by, I think it was Gloria Leonard, maybe was her name.

Okay.

And she would just have guests on and they would have, it was basically like Johnny Carson with porn and the people would come on and they would talk about their movie.

They would play a clip, which was like heavily edited because they weren't allowed to show actual porn.

But it was, I think that's what they were ripping off with these.

Yeah, there was a, there was a public access show like this.

There was another one.

Yeah.

With a blonde porn actress who affected a kind of like Carson of porn.

I can't remember her name, but it was also a call-in show.

Oh, so you could be like, hey,

and she would take calls.

She's Sean from Long Island.

I can't remember her name, but she's a legend, too.

Well, then Playboy channels had Night Calls, which was the 90s version of that.

Recasting Couch Director City.

What about Kathleen Turner as Gloria?

Perfect timer as career.

You don't have to dub her voice.

The camera could just watch her walking around.

Would have worked well.

I guess there's the body heat kind of tie-in, which is maybe she's no, but she's like man with two brands.

I was gonna say, Romancing the Stone is like this year, right?

Do you think that if you had like whatever happened with this, with this actress, like do you think if you had a different actress, like this character would have more to do and have more to say?

No, no, I think she's looking beautiful, which she does, but then you need the voice, which obviously shouldn't have

Tony Romo or Chris Collinsworth or someone else for the director's commentary.

I got for Doris, Okay.

I see you, Mr.

Scully, or should I say, Mr.

Cuck, coming off your nightmare season of acute panic attacks and finding your girlfriend Carol riding another man.

You've put in the work.

You peeped on a woman, stole her underwear, and watched her get murdered by her own husband dressed as a deformed Native American.

Now you're here on the set of a holly body porno, being escorted to a fuck session by 80s new romantic legends.

Frankie goes to Hollywood.

Salute to you, Jake.

And what do you think, Richard Jefferson?

I'm running Ruko back.

Can a 40-inch electric drill completely obliterate Glory Ravel's torso?

You bet.

I texted with Ruko, by the way.

He's fired up.

I assume he's like,

Ruko texted me.

He's like, this is great.

This is a huge win for Ruco.

Yeah, we found out about it.

I was like, we need you, Beth, to get to where Bang is.

Light Pole got it.

Some of your best work.

Half-hazard research.

LA locations, Tale of the Pup, Beverly Center.

Was the Beverly Center in this or just the parking part of Beverly Center?

I don't know.

I don't remember seeing the Beverly Center.

I don't know.

It's allegedly in there.

Barney's Banery, Farmer's Market, Rodeo Collection, Hollywood Tower,

Tower Records, and the Chemisphere.

Is that actually Tower?

It doesn't look like the Tower to me.

It just looks like a video store exterior.

I think there were a couple Tower Records out here, though.

Okay.

Yeah.

I would

probably

go with the Chemosphere.

As the most LA location.

The set for the Frankie Ghost to Hollywood sequence was used the next year for the Netclip scene in Fright Night.

I just watched it yesterday.

That's so funny.

That scene is amazing, too.

I love Fright Night.

That's a rewatchable to me.

That's such a great movie.

I actually like the remake of that, too.

They're both good.

Some of the artsy fartsy writing about this movie said how voyeurism

provides an illusory

imaginative form of control, which Jake had lost because he was emasculated and cucked.

Now you have to watch to gain your control.

Yeah, did they use the word cucked in that piece of literary criticism?

I threw that in.

No, that was Doris Berg.

That was Doris the bank.

Jake's car, 1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS convertible.

Were you ever a jump into the car guy?

No.

Have you ever tried that?

No, it's super dangerous.

I wish I could do it.

I mean, I don't have a convertible right now, but forever.

You should just jump into a stranger's convertible.

Some guy going back from the Dodgers brain.

You should just jump in.

De Palmo is upset that there's a rumor about that he had women coming up to his house for months and months, masturbating for him as he tried to find Holly Body.

That was a persistent rumor after the film.

How did he express his disappointment?

He said, this rumor went on for decades.

It was ridiculous.

The only girl who really came up to my house was Annette, Annette Haven, when we worked on the material together.

And Melanie, who worked with Annette to work on the masturbating at the window routine that I basically worked on in my house on the hill.

It's just work.

I would go outside with a camera and let Melanie just go through her routine that Annette has taught her.

This rumor went on for decades.

It's a rumor that never dies.

I'm still not fine.

Maybe three, four more people went up there.

Who knows?

It's a great way to get an interesting reputation to be like, God, this rumor has been following me around.

Women want to come up to my apartment and masturbate.

I just saw Giannis being like, why do you guys think I want to be traded?

Yeah.

To Miami.

Stop bringing it up.

Yeah.

Definitely not to Miami.

What's wrong with Houston?

Not that I'd want to go there.

Why do you guys keep reporting?

I don't like Dam.

The

videotape of Melanie Griffiths' bedroom jewelry master base and test audition was destroyed at her request because the palm had kept it.

Classic, can you get rid of that?

Or so she thinks.

Yeah.

Can we

just see our archive?

Here it is.

Apex Mountain, Craig Wasson, death of fucking Lulu Lulu.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

This is like

first line of his obituary.

Yeah.

With all his respect.

His grandkids are like,

Grandpa, you were in Body Double with Brian DePalma?

Yeah.

He's 70 years old.

Is he still acting?

I like that.

Yeah, he's a big audiobook narrator.

Oh.

Yeah.

Oh, that's cool.

Maybe we'll have to work with him.

Good pivot.

Melanie Griffith, Apex Mountain, and I'm going to say working girl.

I agree.

De Palma, no.

That's probably Scarface.

It's in the blowout.

It's Untouchables, right?

Untouchables.

Oh, Untouchables.

I feel like Scarface was a bigger movie.

Was it?

I thought so.

Fuck the fucking thing.

Carrie, too.

It is obviously huge.

Fuck the fucking Diaz Brothers.

I think it's got to be Scarface because it gets him the three-picture deal that lets him make body double.

That's good.

When we do Scarface, that's when the feed is over.

It used to be Boogie Knight.

What do you mean?

No, I'm just saying.

I used to say it was Boogie Knights.

Now it's Scarface.

Yeah.

Because we're going to Method pod.

Scarface will be, that'll be seven hours.

Giant mountain of cocaine right here on the table.

Huge cocaine right there.

But we'll be like Brian DePalm will be like, I'm not on cocaine.

I'm just interested in these worlds.

Only one person masturbated for me.

Stop putting the rumor out that I'm podcasting while I own cocaine.

80s porn in movies, definitely.

Greg Henry, what is it for him?

I think it's this.

I think it's this.

This is the most critical role he's had in a movie.

Frankie Goes to Hollywood, definitely.

I mean, this is their songs coming out.

I think they're pretty big.

But this movie, they're on SNL, like the start of the next season.

The album's out.

It's somewhere in 84.

Okay.

This is it.

Their song, The Power of Love, just played a big part in that movie, All of Us Strangers, last year.

And it was the first time I'd heard a Frankie Goes to Hollywood song that wasn't relaxed in like 20 years.

I remember that.

I was just putting that out there.

Have you seen All of Us Strangers?

Who's in that one?

Paul Meskel, Andrew Scott.

i have a really good bit about that movie that i'll share with you off mic save it for the scarface pod yeah i almost did for my hottest take that frankie goes to hollywood and queen were a lot closer than people want to admit in terms of the quality

popularity in terms of the ceiling of how good they were I was workshopping and I couldn't quite get there.

Is that complimentary to Frankie Goes to Hollywood or derogatory about Queen?

It's the latter.

Well, just that I think Relax is as good as any Queen song.

I'm not a huge fan of either, but think that there are some queens.

I think Queen is incredible, so I don't know.

Well, that's why I didn't do it.

Yeah, that's why I broke shopping and decided not to go with it.

Yeah, there's some, I mean, now cocaine is something that they have in common.

I think I think there was a lot of cocaine involved there.

I was listening to like a late-period queen album the other day, and you could hear the cocaine in front of Mercury's throat like it's crazy.

Telescopes,

telescopes in a movie, yeah, telescopes, rotating beds, rotating beds is a good one, one.

Jeez.

Cheesy acting class scenes?

Barry?

Yeah.

Austin Powers rotating bed?

Good one.

Oh, yeah.

Body double scenes

that are

outgoing about how it's a body double scene.

Yes.

Outgoing?

What did she say?

Like, my breasts are very tender.

Yeah.

She also looks different than the like her skin color is different than the other girl too.

I feel like that's part of the joke, right?

Crazy cool LA houses used as a character in a movie.

What's been better than this?

I think Heat's better.

Greenberg.

Greenberg?

Who fucks seen Greenberg?

What do you mean?

What are you talking about?

Who fucks seen Greenberg?

It came and went in five minutes.

That's a liked movie.

What do you mean?

Greenberg.

Greenberg heads visit Bill Simmons.

Are they good houses?

Come through.

No, the house that he stays in.

He's like house sitting.

That's the whole premise of Greenberg.

Cruise or Hanks?

We're thinking Hanks.

No, I.

Greenberg.

Go a bomb back movie.

Ben Stiller.

It's fine.

Cruise or Hanks.

It's Hanks.

Both.

One is the Indian.

One is Jake.

Who plays who?

Oh, a Ty?

Yeah.

So Hanks plays Sam Bouchard slash the Indian.

Yeah.

Or Cruz.

I could see Cruise being like.

I'm sorry, Cruz plays it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think Cruise has to be Sam and the Indian.

because you could see Cruz being like, hey, small world, small town, we keep popping up at these auditions together, you know?

Yeah,

they're like slick, smarmy thing

Cruz can do.

Hanks is definitely the Craig Wass.

Yeah, yeah, I think he would have done that.

I agree.

So who wins that one then, Craig?

Hanks, right?

Hanks is the lead.

Yeah,

racehorse, rock band, wrestler, fantasy team name.

Holly does Hollywood as a racehorse.

I don't know.

Water sports.

Water sports.

That's right.

Let's uh, we'll take one more break and then we got to pick a lot of nets.

This episode is brought to you by Pretty Litter.

If you're like me and you track your steps, your sleep, even your screen time, why wouldn't you track your cat's health too?

Pretty litter is like smart tech for your litter box.

This color-changing litter actually monitors your cat's health by detecting potential issues in their urine, things like pH changes or blood, so you can catch problems early.

Plus, pretty litter ships free right to your door, so no heavy bags to carry and no last-minute pet store runs.

Right now, save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy or pretty litter.com slash rewatchables.

Once again, pretty litter.com slash rewatchables to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy.

Pretty litter.com slash rewatchables.

Pretty litter cannot detect every feline health issue or prevent or diagnose diseases.

The diagnosis can only come from a licensed veterinarian.

Terms and conditions apply.

See See site for details.

Pig of nets.

Jake is so dumb that he can't figure out his girlfriend's fucking another guy in her room for

75 seconds, but yet he can piece together this elaborate murder plot.

I just wanted to start there.

Yeah, I mean, that whole opening sequence where Jake...

should at least be picking up on the vibes that he might not be asked back to the set after ruining the shot.

And yet he's like, I think I'll just get hot dogs and just go back to my cool girlfriend.

It's like, Carolyn Jake.

It's tough when your character is a total dipshit.

Because then like any of the plot holes, you're like, ah, well, he's a loser.

Right.

But then he somehow figures it out in five seconds.

What do you have?

Because I have a lot of nitpicks.

I mean, the biggest one is just like, is Sam's plan and just how elaborate it requires tons of makeup, multiple cars.

uh multiple like he has the one house that gloria is living in then he has he has the sinesphere or whatever the this roundhouse that he's also able to work out of.

So it's just like, it just seems there was a much straighter line to killing your wife.

I wrote, Sam Bouchard, rich guy pretending he's an actor to set up a murder.

Should I start doing this?

Should I just start going to acting classes and looking for my prey?

Yeah, that's right.

And I'll get makeup.

You really, you lifted the veil there.

That was good.

I think there's like, you could break down each step, though, because

so he wants to have a witness.

So he wants someone to see him kill his wife.

But think it's somebody else.

It has to be a good enough costume

that they think it's someone else.

This is.

One of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard of.

He is going to be witness killing someone.

And the first time you see him as

the Indian, you're like, that's Greg Henry.

yeah exactly you see him yeah like that's clearly the guy we just saw so even in the like unreality of the movie it's the dumbest plan of all time yeah he would have been better off telling his wife that he also owned the chemisphere telling her to come up for a drink and then just shoving her down the stairs and be like she fell yeah

didn't work yes yes

So Alan, he was saying how Alan, the cool house owner, who's letting Sam House sit there, but he had to leave for five weeks and he had to find somebody.

He's leaving tomorrow.

So if he didn't find anyone, like nobody's watering the plants.

Premise of the, like, they go to Barney's, is he like waiting for, for, I guess he already knows Jake's looking for a place because he hears him in the first audition being like, oh, you got anything right here?

How about this?

Was he the one fucking his girlfriend?

I wondered about that for a second before.

As the indie, yeah.

Where is Gloria when Holly Body is just dancing in her living room every night?

Bedroom at night at night?

Shopping for underwear?

I have a night.

No p.m.

Great question.

Maybe she's at the beach house.

Could you figure out how to have somebody in your bedroom at 9 p.m.

every night?

Be like, Eileen,

could you go

in the TV room from 9 to 9.30?

Well, it's just also like,

yeah, yeah.

It's absurd.

Yeah.

Do they have to be a little bit more?

And she's there the next morning.

So where the fuck was she?

She's a guy in the car.

That's a good point.

Well, maybe she has a social life.

Who's Gloria call

from the payphone when she's like, I have to see you.

He hit me again.

Like, who's she talking to?

Presumably someone she's having an affair with, which is maybe one of the reasons why he's killing her.

Yeah.

Wow.

Neither.

A little more details on that.

Jake Clepp kept Gloria's underpants in his pocket for 10 hours.

He then went home.

Kept him in the pocket.

I mean, he basically wears one outfit for the entire movie.

He's dressed like a substitute teacher.

Yeah, he is.

So Alexander Ravel's scheme.

of killing his wife

and pretending someone else did it, but also pretending to be Sam Bouchard, the barely working actor.

Wouldn't they have written about this in a newspaper?

Yeah.

Wouldn't there have been a picture of her and her husband?

And wouldn't...

Anybody have been like, that's the guy from our acting club?

Would Jake have maybe seen his picture?

Like, wasn't there a risk of Jake seeing the picture of the husband?

Yeah.

Yes.

All right.

This is a big one.

Is getting into porn in 1984, was it really that easy?

Just get to be the lead actor in a whole body.

I'm just going to get a movie question about one second yeah it's like you just walk into an audition and even in hardcore like jim jishum had to kind of work for yeah he put in the hours he was in the minor leagues for a while i i i'm gonna go the other way i think i think that you could do it i think you just walk in but they're making so much porn back then if you have the tools necessary well because he's got a familiarity with the audition process how to call a production office probably right so he's got a little bit of a a foot inside the door and maybe there's a lot of intimidation out there you know maybe people weren't like oh yeah, I could just step right into this.

I think if you're equipped

properly.

Well, this is a huge unanswerable question:

was Jake packing?

I mean,

he's getting cheated in the first 10 minutes.

Everything about him tells us no.

And yet, he feels very comfortable in this environment.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How is Sam's makeup

as the Indian this good?

Or wasn't.

Who's applying it?

They said

to do the makeup it's like a paper-mâché head they said to do greg henry's makeup it took three and a half hours every day this guy's just whipping it on he's like i'm the indian now

here's my power drill uh de palma is such a freak this is such a stupid story this movie's so amazing why did sam pick holly body as the dancer who was

probably the most famous porn star at the time why not pick like some girl achieved porn star number four

i think it's because of her remarkable resemblance to his wife isn't that part of it i mean you

you know i forgot to mention yes rewatchable scene the most rewatchable scene is the first time you see her dancing yeah to say is that deborah shelton or is that melody griffith right

any other nitpicks

no

why does uh sam keep bringing that dog with him everywhere He's a huge dog.

Just leave that dog at home.

I know.

What are you doing?

Love that.

Love to your demise.

Yeah.

He thought he had it, though, though, with kill.

He's like, kill

sequel, prequel, prestige TV, all blackcast or untouchable.

I'm all in on Prestige TV as a remake.

Oh, interesting.

I think it would be really good.

Putting it in 2025 and like the fucking OnlyFans era.

Yeah, that's great.

I think I would like to have this sequel of Holly and Jake branching into pornography at their

couple.

Opening Holly Body Productions?

Yeah.

Oh, interesting.

You know, and he's cosplaying as the producer, but also like at home is like this normal, self-effacing guy.

I love it.

He gets, they hire Tracy Lords, and there's like this new actress, Tracy.

Yeah.

She has all her ID.

It's great.

And then Tracy Lords brings down Holly Body Productions and Jake.

That's a good idea.

Yeah.

Should pursue that.

Topalma.

Get that.

Topalma still working.

Not really, but yeah, I wish he was.

Prestige TV, I think, would be really good.

Is this movie better with Wayne Jenkins, Danny Treo, Sam Jackson, Nell, JT Walsh, Byron Mayo, Harling Mays, Eva Laughie, Ramon Raymond, Long Legs, or Philip Baker Hall?

What do you got?

I definitely think it's just Byron Mayo, and I can't even decide what scene Byron would talk to.

He did say he's Sid Goldberg.

Yeah, he's basically in the hot tub with that.

He's just like, what's next at the pussy flick?

Oh, God.

Are you sure Nell shouldn't be Holly Body?

Oh, my God.

Doing the dance.

She's like,

Do you think would Long Legs have been a good AD on the porn set?

There's no come shot!

I don't see the come.

We have to do it again.

Oh, man.

I can't look at you guys in the eyes.

What's wrong, God?

Just want to ask her who gets it.

It has to be Melanie Griffith.

Best supporting actress.

I had Stephen Adriperum, but sure, yeah.

Okay.

Oh, that's good.

What about Brian DePalma?

No, yeah.

Who's he competing against in 84?

It's like out of Africa?

I think it is.

Yeah.

I think that's what it does.

I think that's shit, Sidney Pollock.

Yeah, I mean,

out of Africa versus Body Double, it's body double 100 times out of 100.

It's not even close.

Where do you guys stay on the killing fields?

Pretty into it.

I like it.

It's a really weird pivot in this conversation.

Well, it's also 84.

I think that was nominated that year, too.

That's Roland Joffee?

It is.

I really like that movie.

Probably unanswerable questions.

What would have happened if Tracy Lords accidentally ended up in this movie?

Because they had to destroy all the movies she was making.

Like they were casting from around the world.

She easily could have been in that movie.

Was she making movies in 84?

I think that's when it started.

She easily could have been like one of the people.

What would they they have done at that point?

Would all the body double cassettes have been pulled?

I wonder if the controls around this stuff were more intense because it was a Hollywood production.

Yeah, maybe.

Oh, yeah, that's a good point.

You know, I don't know, but I assume, especially because the studio was like, there's no way you're casting a Ned Haven, for example.

I have no idea why the rumor that Tracy Hordes was in this movie came about.

I looked at all right.

It's a really fascinating question, though, about what would have happened to it.

Yeah.

I always wondered what would have happened if she had been just in a movie,

how they would have handled that.

Oh, like, even if she was just like in 48 hours, I guess if she's not having sex, maybe that's I think that's been the issue.

I mean, she goes on, but if she was in the porn scene in that one, they would have had to like get rid of the scene.

Yeah.

Um, she's in a John Waters movie like three years later.

What's the worst position to walk in on your girlfriend fucking another guy in a movie?

The worst position that she's in, yeah,

because they usually have the girl on top when they do this, but I think Doggy Style would be the most humiliating.

That's why it's unanswerable.

I'm so unprepared for that.

So, Goldberg,

I just worked so hard in my career.

Well,

everyone always got the same position.

I'm just trying to get the other choices.

All right, we can move on.

Is it possible?

Is it possible Jake

is it possible he imagined this whole movie?

I think it would be, for me, it would be doggy style, but getting fucked by long legs.

Oh, my God.

Is this your boyfriend?

He is your movie.

Is it possible Jake imagined this whole movie?

Yeah.

I think so.

It's possible it's happening like in his, in his class.

Because he has his job back at the end.

He gets his job back like twice weirdly.

Yeah.

And doesn't it feel that's the reality of the whole movie?

Doesn't that feel like when you're in a dream and you're like, this is really happening?

This is really happening.

And then you wake up and you're like, of course that wasn't happening.

Why was I in this sort of real experience that actually you can't make real?

Because the tip-offs would be the 360-degree kiss on the beach.

Just that whole scene.

Yeah.

It's just ridiculous.

And the ending, but like, I mean, what's the reservoir is ridiculous.

Think about the acting teach, the acting teaching scene when he's just like, you shouldn't be fucking with his head.

Like, what gives you the right to be fucking with his head?

What if he fucked Jake up by like taking him back to this memory of like him not being able to scream out?

And it's basically a projection.

Yeah, I always read it as it starts at the very first scene when he's having the claustrophobia while he's shooting the movie.

But I don't know.

It would be funny if De Palma gave some De Palma interview and he's like, I can't believe people thought like he didn't imagine the whole movie.

Of course, he did.

He watched the first scene, and he never did say anything like that, though, right?

No,

best double feature choice:

I could give you just a kill, I could also just give you Working Girl, and you could do the Melanie Griffith before and after she became a massive star, or I give you an early hitchcott.

Yeah,

I think it's Vertigo.

Okay, I just saw Vertigo on big screen a couple months ago, and they're very similar.

These two movies.

How was it?

Beautiful, majestic.

It's one of the best movies ever.

The Andy and Red Zawatana Award for what happened the next day.

Can we walk through Holly Body's next few years?

Sure.

In the mid-80s, glory years of porn and cocaine.

I think she burns bright and then burns out.

She feels like it, right?

She's running headlong into the Jen and Jameson era, which is a different era of porn.

But that's like 10 years later.

Not that many, though.

Like by the time you get to the late 80s, you're headed into life.

You're a much more commercialized version of porn.

So does she make it to

bridge the eras, basically?

I mean, I don't really think that the movie that Jake gets back into, Vampire's Kiss, is like a springboard to mainstream success.

So my imagine, I imagine that.

He's going full porn.

Yeah.

That's my, that's my guess.

Maybe directing?

Or, yeah, behind the scenes.

Because we don't know if he's

a past where Holly Body and Jake do have a company together.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kind of like the ringer.

But why would Holly Body want to end up with Jake?

Because Jake sucks.

That's why I kept it.

She's really like entertaining like his bullshit the entire time.

Yeah.

Maybe she sees him as a portal to the legitimate world.

Something about him she likes.

What piece of memorability would you want from this movie?

Other than the telescope?

Probably the drill.

The prosthetic mask, the Indian mask.

How about a Holly Does Hollywood video cassette?

Sure.

Fake one.

I don't know if they ever made that, but that would be a good one.

Okay.

I think the telescope would be pretty cool because you could actually use it.

Deborah Shelton's panties.

Stuff in your pocket for 10 hours.

I should have had them hanging out of my pocket this whole time.

I forgot these were in here.

Fucking weirdo.

Coach Finnstock award, best life lesson.

Don't trust anyone you barely know who asked you to house set.

Yeah, that's a good one.

I've met you twice.

To be true, it probably is.

Don't follow strangers

for long periods of time.

Yeah, to long periods.

Who won the movie?

De Palma.

I think Melanie Griffith wins the movie.

I think Melanie Griffith wins it.

I love Melanie.

He becomes a major star after this.

De Palma is still bummed out that this movie didn't do well.

Okay.

The Something Wild Working Girl follow-up is dynamite.

But I do think this is a very important De Palma movie because one of the reasons that makes him him is he did a couple of these that were just like, what the fuck was going on with that movie?

There's some, there's been writing about this, and I think he's even commented on this idea that he's not making movies specifically for a contemporary audience.

They're made to be timeless.

And I do think that there is a quality to this that feels that way.

I like that he almost always follows up a major pure commercial hit with an idiosyncratic indulgence, you know, and that like for every, every time you make a Mission Impossible or an Untouchables or

Carlito's Way, there's a raising cane right around the corner.

There's always a like, just don't forget, I'm Brian DePalma.

Yeah, yeah.

You like Raising Cane?

I do.

I do.

Can never get there.

It's very similar to this movie.

Do you like Carlito's Way?

I really don't like it that much.

Oh, I do.

It's really tough.

It's a five-star masterpiece.

Sean Tenn has his defense attorney?

I'll give it another whirl.

It's just.

I'm stunned, honestly.

It's one of Pacino's absolute best.

I get it.

Did you read this Pacino memoir?

Is it out?

Yeah, it's out.

I think we should all read it.

Should we do like a 20-minute YouTube

video?

Apparently, there's some crazy stories in it of him just being deeply weird.

He said he never tried cocaine.

Well, there's one of the stories.

I don't know where all these rumors come from that I did go.

Craig, what'd you think of Body Double?

I just want to say before this, for the record, I don't know who Nell is and I don't want to know and I'm enjoying it more because

I'm having a good time living in this Nell ignorance.

There was a review about this movie about Body Double that I really liked.

It's from the New York Times.

The guy writes, De Palma again goes too far, which is the reason to see it.

And I was like, That's exactly how I feel.

Yeah.

I love it.

If you're going to do it and you have the cachet to do it, then do it.

And it's why I like like Babylon, you know?

Yeah.

Take a swing.

I don't think this movie is saying that much.

I don't think this movie's like that deep, but it's just like a personal movie, a cynical movie made by this, a talented director about a murder mystery in Hollywood in the porn industry.

And

it looks beautiful.

Like the

sweeping camera movements, like it looks great.

It was when we talked about blowout and you were like, which is also Dopama.

And you were like, I love when like A-list directors make, do like B-level genres.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And i think this falls under that and and it's so fun to watch it's my favorite thing what'd you think of craig wasson i actually liked him more than you guys did i thought he was really well cast i thought he was good in the movie other than the the claustrophobic face is a disaster i don't they that was a mess do you think you would feel differently about it if he had like four or five good like scorsese cast him in his next movie and he was a known

he became a guy yeah like he became like dreyfus

yeah

like could he have been in reservoir dogs as one of the guys probably not that's so funny

But, like, it's easy to write him off.

Could he have been the

third guy in Jaws?

Too young, probably.

Could he have been Dreyfus's character, you mean?

That's what I mean.

I'm trying to think of like a mid-late 80s movie that he would have worked well in.

I mean, I just don't know.

If he was in Midnight Run stuff.

Yeah.

If he was Groden in Midnight Run.

Sure.

If he was Groden, right.

Yeah.

Can't get there.

I liked him, though.

I'm glad you liked it, Craig.

Is it just his name is Craig?

Maybe.

Not a lot of Craigs.

Not a lot of Craigs.

Craig no craig presentation yeah craig robinson yeah i think i need to watch more diploma movies yeah i oh yeah they're they're so

it's one of the best like journeys you can go on as a movie fan probably start with carrie and just start at start going carrie yeah just go through i haven't seen carrie yeah have you seen scarface no oh man i know i can't believe i haven't seen i would do all of them i would do sisters phantom of the paradise like all the 70s movies and all the 80s movies are have we done his two best movies or no like we did blowout you guys did untouchables and untouchables right we've done mission impossible

impossible yeah we've done four i think right we've done this and blowout yeah that's four but we haven't done scarface or we haven't done dress the kill or carry oh yeah dress dress the kill could be in the could this movie be made month yeah maybe it's the palm a month it's still dressed to kill is still good though still love it i think blowout still is his best movie i agree with blowout yeah i agree all right produced by craig korlbeck thanks to cr thanks to sean

Don't forget you can watch this on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well.

It's a lot of functions on that.

They might put some sort of rating on this podcast.

We'll see next week in the rewatch.