Guide To... S1E4 "Philosophy" (March 17, 2009)

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Hello, I'm Ricky Gervais.

Philosophy is the science which considers truth.

So said Aristotle, one of the great forefathers of Western philosophy.

In its attempt to seek out the truths and principles of human existence, philosophy must answer questions of beauty, of justice, of language, indeed, of the mind itself.

To help me consider some of the core concepts and presumptions of philosophical inquiry, I'm joined by Stephen Merchant, graduate of the University of Warwick, an award-winning writer.

It's a pleasure to be here.

And Carl Pilkinton, a man with no education, didn't really go to school, no awards, headed like a fucking orange.

You know the twat.

Alright.

To me, philosophy might be the greatest subject of all academic subjects: the mother of science

asking the big questions: why are we here?

How do we live?

But it's been sort of mugged and kidnapped by those people

who put rubbish under the umbrella of philosophy.

Right.

Cod philosophy.

I went into a library once, I looked in the philosophy section, and there was a book by Doris Stokes.

Doris Stokes being, for those that don't know,

a medium who said she was talking to the dead as crystals.

Feng Shui.

Feng Shui.

Oh,

God.

The interesting thing about Feng Shui is how I remember someone came to an office I was working in once, and she said, you're going to need crystal here above the lavatory to get all the negative qi out of the cisterns.

And she said, This crystal is £25.

And the guy went, We're not going to spend that.

And she went, Okay, I got one in for five.

Brilliant.

It was surprisingly convenient that she had a number of different crystals that apparently did the same job.

We're also going to need a brush to get the shit out of the toilet.

What have you got for that?

Yeah, there's a lot of that

twaddle.

There was a woman, I remember once, I used to do a radio show on the BBC World Service,

and she came in and she could tell from the coloured liquids that you chose, from a a big selection of coloured liquids, she could tell a lot about your personality from that.

So I picked up three or four, and she looked at them, and I chose like a blue one, just arbitrary.

And she looked at me and she said, okay,

I get the sense that you like to communicate with people, but on a global level.

And you're working for the World Service.

As we spoke, we were broadcasting on the World Service.

I don't know where it was.

I mean, she just read it from the liquids.

As a novice, one of the key catchphrases, if you like, of philosophy, and one that's always intrigued and confused me a little, is the famous René Descartes quote: I think, therefore, I am.

A lot of people think of that as the epitome, in a way, of a philosophical statement.

First thing we ever did, I think, at degree level, and it's the one thing I'd already heard of.

It's one of those things that sort of

filters down cogito ergo sam, as you say, I think, therefore I am, when Descartes was pondering his existence.

Just before we get to his conclusion, Carl,

how do you know

this isn't a dream?

Just because I haven't been sleeping that well.

No, no,

but you could still be dreaming, couldn't you?

Because

this could be a dream that you haven't been sleeping lately.

You could be dreaming the last few nights you haven't been sleeping.

Uh

In dreams, they're different, like, I mean, like I said, I don't have that many of them because I don't sleep that well.

But when I do have one, there's something different and vivid about it.

Now, if I was dreaming all this, I reckon my boiler would have been fixed ages ago.

I don't think anyone has a dream that goes on for that amount of time.

Well, it could be a nightmare, but the presumption, but I think you're also presuming that the dream that you could be dreaming needs to be exactly the same as the dreams you think of when you're dreaming.

My point is, there's no way of you knowing that this life you're living now as you talk to us is real and that it's not actually the imaginings of another Carl somewhere else.

There are actually no clues, Carl.

There are actually no clues now that this is the real thing.

Well, sometimes, most of the time, it's one minute I'm awake, next minute I'm asleep, then I'm awake again.

Sleep's just you know the bit between you being awake and awake again, that's called asleep.

Yeah.

Now, do you ever think things while you're asleep?

It's things.

It's that bit between the awake and awake.

I want to do that.

I told you about one ages ago where

you burst in and I was on the toilet.

I never had this dream.

No, yeah, the one that it was all, it was like everyone was German and it was at some gig or something, and you opened the door, and everyone was looking and laughing at me, and I'm sat on the toilet, and you sort of said, Oh, that's probably because you're uncomfortable with being put on the limelight.

Yeah, that you that you might be out yeah possibly yeah but that's one dream that could be true

exactly or there is a likelihood that you think I bet he's gonna burst in I am always on edge when you're about when I use the toilet here yeah I kind of think is he busy at the moment

you have to wait till he's on the phone to go for a bit I have to sit there holding the lock yeah

and it isn't normal it's not normal

but there's an example of a dream

but I think what you're failing to grasp is not so much the mechanics of whether this is a dream, but that you cannot know the truth of what you're experiencing.

You cannot know that this is reality.

It's a question about reality.

How do we know that then?

What reality is and what we like about reality?

Robert Nozick did this thing.

If you could go into a flotation tank and you led a whole virtual life and it was the best life possible, you did exactly what you've always wanted.

You became the person you wanted to be.

You did the best things you could ever dream of doing, and you literally couldn't tell the difference.

So it was your life, okay?

And you lived your biological life out in that tank and died at 80, and had the best life any person could ever have.

You could pre-program it.

Would you get into that tank knowing what you know now, knowing that you will have the best life ever with no heartache, no upset, no loved ones dying?

So what's happening when I'm sort of having a packet of munches?

Yeah.

Am I having them or are they imaginary?

They're imaginary, but you can't tell the difference.

It's the best packet of munches we've ever had.

I love the fact that you went into the flotation tank

and your one proviso was, are munches as good?

Yeah.

No, no, I'm just taking it back to basics.

That is basic.

You've got to pre-programme your life.

That's where you'd start, is it?

Munches must always taste magnificent.

Well, it's just if you can still enjoy the basic things in life, then that's when you can do it wrong.

You do.

You enjoy them.

You are the, you're the,

it's the life you'd ever want to live.

And you're living it.

Why is that dangerous?

A bit dangerous.

Why, go on, why?

Just,

I don't know, because sometimes I think things don't happen for the best.

Right?

Right.

Sometimes you can sort of think, oh, I'll enjoy that if that happens.

And then it doesn't happen.

And you've had time to think about it.

Oh, but this is perfect.

No, this is built in.

Because whatever happens is for the best so not only when you're in this flotation tank are you enjoying yourself that things just keep getting better or staying as well you never you never have a bad day you never have a bad day but how long would that last for before you go and fed up with this well why would you get fed up with it because you do something else it's the perfect life bear in mind you don't you're not aware that you're in the flotation tank you've made that deal but then once you're in there you don't know you're not aware of being in the flotation tank you're living your life and it's perfect you're happy well we don't know how you would be happy you You just have munches every day and

well, yeah, you get in it then.

Get in it.

If you don't know you've got in this tank, if I somehow go to bed at night, someone injects me in the head, and then they go, right, stick them in the tank now.

And then I wake up, packet of munches there, sun's out.

Suzanne goes, oh, it's a nice day.

We'll go and do something nice.

You're meant to be at work.

She goes, no, I don't have to go in today.

Right.

All right, let's go out there.

Now, what's interesting there is

that

within this scenario, I gave you any life, you could do anything, and you chose the exact life you've got now, except Suzanne's got a day off.

Now, I both love that

suspicious, though, that she's just taking a day off now.

No, wait, it's not happening now, it's not happening, really happening.

You could do anything you like, but I like the fact that now you're even questioning it, and you're not in the tank, and why has Suzanne got a day off, right?

Now, I love that, because that suggests to me that you're a nice, happy, satisfied, whatever you want to do it, contented person who's got the perfect life.

However, it's almost like you haven't fully understood the possibilities.

For example, you wake up, there's the munches, sunny day.

Suzanne's not at work.

You know, why aren't you at work?

She goes to you, hold on, though, why are you flying?

And you go, I just can.

But you hadn't even thought of that maybe you could fly or swim or hold your breath.

You're just going to have some munches for breakfast.

Hang on a minute.

This is day one.

Oh, okay.

When you go on holiday, like I've said before, you don't turn up and go, right, it's one o'clock, jet ski for half an hour, bungee jump in 40 minutes after that, let's have a nice roti and, you know, try a little cocktail.

And what do you do?

What do you do when you arrive there?

When you get there,

the fella takes your case to the room.

Right.

You have that panic of, am I going to give him too much money?

I don't know the currency well enough yet.

I don't know how much.

More information than we asked for.

The most mundane scenario I've ever heard.

No, but this is what happens in real life.

Right, okay.

So you have that scenario.

You go, right, where's my shorts?

You get them on.

You go out and have a wander.

You have a wand around

to know where everything everything is.

The shop.

The shop park, you did the shop.

You know, how close the beach is.

Is it busy?

Yeah.

Okay, you're just telling us what happens when you're going holiday.

What's your point?

Okay.

Because

you don't want fun all in one go.

You want to build to it because that's sometimes part of it.

Right.

Yeah.

Okay.

So anticipation.

Yeah, good.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That little bit.

Yeah.

It's about things taking time, innit, and looking back at the journey and going, How did I get here?

Okay, well, can I ask a question?

Because, sorry, I'm just, what I'm fascinated to know is: if you decided to sign up to the float tank idea, okay, you can design your perfect life.

But I prefer not to know I'm doing it.

No, you won't, you won't.

But I want to ask this question: imagine Ricky and I are the doctors, okay?

We can put you in this tank.

All we need to know from you now is what your perfect life is.

We're going to program it in the computer.

You're going to wake up tomorrow.

You won't know this conversation's happened.

You'll have the perfect life.

If you don't mind, we're going to take notes now.

What is the perfect life?

You're still obviously living with Suzanne.

We've got what else?

We've got lunches and we've got sunshine.

But what else would you like in your magical life of your ultimate life?

I think I prefer

no, because then I'd know it's not real.

No, you wouldn't have it.

No, no, it just came back.

Suzanne comes in one day and goes, why aren't you working?

She goes,

okay, I've left my job.

Can we leave the while at work?

I'm always going to be here.

Right?

I've got a new tonic, right, from Boots.

She pops it on your hair.

Boop, baby gorilla.

Yeah, I don't like this idea of suddenly Suzanne's never at work.

I just think you need a bit of the badness to have the goodness.

Right.

In a minute, you're going to be injected in the head, you're going to go to sleep, you're going to be in a float shape, but you are going to suddenly leave this office and it's going to be a virtual world.

You can do what you want.

You can suddenly go, what was I hanging around with that bloke off the office for?

I'm a spy.

And you go to MI5 and they go, thanks for coming in, Pilkerton.

Listen,

Droski,

he's coming from Russia and he's got the bang.

What do you do?

What's your scenario?

What do you do as a job?

We've got munches, Suzanne's never worried.

I prefer to leave everything as it is.

Brilliant.

Go in it.

Go in it, but have everything the same so that I'm going, hang on a minute, as it actually happened.

What are you talking about?

No, you don't know about this.

You don't know anything that's happened.

No, because you've just said you're going to put me in the tank and you're asking questions as to what I want when I get in it.

No, you won't know you're in the tank.

Once you're in the tank, you won't know.

You'll have a new life, a life that you've designed.

You'd have different memories if you wanted.

You could be five again, again, or you could be now, but you weren't born in Manchester.

I prefer it to be the same with the same memories, but the difference is when I next get British Gas Round, they go, oh, Mr.

Bilkington, yesterday.

Oh, my God!

The boiler is.

He's like to have a mental life, so his boiler's fixed.

So your boiler still goes wrong in your dream, but you do fixed.

But you don't even need a boiler.

You could be the perfect temple.

It's not Kirby anymore.

I don't like the idea of too much change.

I don't want that much of a change.

But you won't realise it.

It won't feel like change.

Well, it's changed already.

You're saying the boiler's been fixed like that.

I prefer to start that problem and go, hang on a minute.

Is this different?

Suzanne's still going to work.

Right.

That's very important, too.

But then you want to.

You don't want her around all day.

But then, but then things happen that wouldn't have happened in this world.

Okay,

let's see the differences.

What do you do?

Because I've got to program this.

So you've got the same job, all that.

Are we still around?

Yeah, because it's part of the problem.

I'm going to ask you a question now.

Do I still squeeze your head every time I see you, rest you to the ground and wind you up, trying to stress you out, call you all hours?

Do I still do all that?

What am I like?

You're still the same and you still do that, but maybe one day I go, don't do that anymore because it does annoy me.

And you go, okay.

And then

I've dealt with it.

I've sorted that problem as opposed to this machine, this tank deciding.

Right.

I don't like the idea of this tank

making life good for me.

I want a few problems and if there's a problem, I want to sort it.

Okay.

But we've hit the nail on the head there.

We're going to go back to this because it's fascinating.

But Nozuck concluded that no one would get into the tank because we'd rather have a real life with all its problems than a fake life.

And I sort of think you've proved that by even getting into the tank with your provisos and scenarios.

I mean, you've changed nothing except your boiler being fixed and me stop squeezing your head

on it.

Which makes me think that you should have your boiler fixed.

And then you will have the perfect life that you can imagine.

Yeah, but it's that old chestnut, innit?

It's the thing of like, um, what's my problem then?

You've got the problem gene in your head.

You've got to fill it with a problem.

Yeah, he's not a geneticist.

Got the problem hole in your head.

No, it's not.

Shut up, Ricky.

Let him say what he needs to do.

He's got to say, he's got a problem hole in his head.

He's got a problem hole in his head.

It's called his mouth.

Yes.

Right, that is your problem hole.

So if someone comes up and they go, I've fixed your boiler.

Sorry, could I just ask you?

No, let him speak.

Well, ask one question, Steve.

Is the problem hole different from the problem gene, or is that a new term for?

No, you put things through the problem hole and they end up in the problem gene.

You feed something in the problem hole.

Is that right, Carl?

It goes through the problem tube into the problem gene.

Okay, so it's down the problem, can't do it.

Okay, go on.

Right.

So it's better to have.

You've got a problem hole in your head.

Okay.

So you stuff in a problem into the problem hole.

Okay, yeah.

Now, all the little problems can't get in because of the big problem.

Right.

Is that that good or bad?

But that's not true.

The problem hole is a standard size on everyone.

Right, right.

Shut up, Ricky.

Let him explain.

Now, Ricky, I'd say his problems

are not even problems.

Well, how big's his problem hole?

Same size as mine.

Same size as yours.

But his problems are all little ones.

They're like, you've got a load of Skittles.

I've got a big cream egg.

Right, but why?

Shut up.

Let him speak.

He's just expanding on his idea.

Why is it not?

What is his problem?

What is your problem that's so big compared to my little Skittles?

What are the problems?

You get stressed out about things that I'm like, what's up with you?

You get annoyed easily with stuff.

People chewing loudly.

Or someone breathing loudly.

Or someone coughing.

Whereas I'm like, that doesn't matter.

Like you say, to you, the boiler is like, get it ripped out, put a new one in.

It's not as easy as that.

It is.

And that's why the problem ball is growing.

It's got a gene a ball and a hole.

So the problem ball.

No wonder there's no fucking room for a brain.

Right, shut up.

Let me ask.

I want to clarify this.

The problem ball exists in life.

It gets bigger and bigger and bigger.

It has to go through the problem hole hole,

down the problem tube, into

the slides into the problem tube.

Right, Lenin.

Lenin, so you've got the problem ball.

Everyone's problem hole is the same size.

But some people's problems are smaller, so they can slip straight into the problem hole.

I've got a question, Sally.

Wait, wait.

And listen,

has anyone got a pair of problem balls?

Or is it always just.

Could ladies have a pair of problem balls?

No, because Hitler had one problem ball, didn't he?

But

could anyone ever have a pair of problem balls?

Is my question to you.

And some people's problem balls are much bigger than another man's or another woman's, right?

Yeah, depending on the problem.

So

you could have a pair of problem balls and one problem hole.

The way I'm saying...

Okay,

supposing I came to you, I said, listen,

a man starving in a foreign country might have huge problem balls.

He might have, but if I went to a doctor and said, I've got a problem hole, and the doctor said, well, let me see it, and he said, well, let me see your problem hole.

And hanging down in front of my problem hole was a huge pair of problem balls.

What would he treat first?

Is my question.

Well, would he look into the problem hole?

He said, right, he'd say, right, take your problem jeans off.

I want to see your problem hole clearly.

But he would fish, he would put his hand or his finger into the problem hole to try and remove the problem balls, wouldn't he?

Well, he could feel the problem balls, but he'd have to insert his finger into the problem hole, wouldn't he?

Right.

Okay, so, Carl, go on then.

I'll just get in the tank.

Okay, so in a roundabout way, back to Kogito Ogo Sum.

I think therefore I am.

Descartes pondering, how do I know this isn't a dream?

Well,

he concluded he doesn't.

When he took it further to how do I know I even exist?

He quite rightly concluded that, well, if I'm even pondering this question I must exist whatever I am wherever I am the fact that I'm questioning introspecting thinking at all I think therefore I am because I'm even thinking at least I know one thing that I exist that's all he said Carl I don't understand why he had so much time on his hands to be worrying about this at the end of the day get on with it you're not doing shit all Carl so why are you so annoyed at other people who aren't doing anything

you're going out in the morning, you're staring at worms, at bugs, you're staring at the sky with a book.

You're writing a book.

You're making up.

You're making up the books.

That isn't researched.

What do you mean, making it up?

What is it that you're making?

One of the chapters in your book about travel was Australia.

I've never been there myself.

Forget it then.

Throw it away.

No, because you can step off your travels.

You make up stuff about a grub eating a biscuit.

We're all the same.

I mean, what is that?

That's not.

But I laughed.

Yeah.

So I enjoyed that book.

Listen, everyone like me who thought that book is absolutely pointless.

It is in my lavatory.

Every time I pop in there through a shit, just take it off the shelf, have a little read.

It's great fun.

And I'm down to about four pages because sometimes I forget to get bug roll.

But listen, that is a fun book to wind your ass with.

But that book was good for me.

I don't know if anyone enjoyed it, but I was emptying my worry hole.

I'm a problem.

Is that different to the problem ol, your worry hole?

It's next to it.

Once a problem problem ball has been processed through the hole,

is it deposited through the worry hole?

All I'm saying is, you're right.

I do watch a lot of insects and stuff, and you never see them wasting time.

They're always doing something.

An ant's carrying something somewhere.

Sometimes I watch it and it goes somewhere and comes back again.

You think, does it know what it's doing?

But at least it's trying.

What is it doing there?

What is that ant doing?

Work.

It's doing...

It's building a house or...

What's the point?

Everything it does is pointless.

How can you say that?

It's pointless.

I'll tell you what.

If there was a bigger sort of being looking over the world and they went, right, let's look at the human race.

And, well, they'd look at the ants first and they go, right, they've got their hands full.

They're carrying big stuff.

They're trying to save time by carrying stuff that's way too big for them, really.

They could do that between three of them.

But they don't.

They're all grafting hard.

Then they go, right, hit the human button.

They hit the human button, they watch the humans.

The amount of people who are just sat about doing now, they know that Amy Winehouse, Lily Allen in London at 2 a.m.

So what?

What are we doing?

I agree with you, but what are you doing?

You see, the ant analogy, joking aside, I think there you hit on the fact that life is about working for what you get.

And I'm right behind that.

I am right behind that.

I think that's absolutely true.

That's what I meant.

What's dangerous is a boiling kettle to an ant.

At the end of the day, right?

Yeah, but that's evil, isn't it?

What?

You know, I don't.

I mean, you sometimes make out as if I'm an evil man.

We had an ant problem in the garden.

Suzanne said, We've got to get rid of these.

And I said, Well, it's a bit out of order.

They are outside.

She said, Yeah, but there's getting a lot of them.

She went and popped the kettle on.

I said, I can't handle this.

I went in, right?

What?

You didn't want to see the ants burn.

That's sweet.

You know, they're there.

Yeah, they might be causing a problem, but I don't want to see this mess.

Now, the thing is, she went out, she poured the hot water on it, I left it a few minutes.

I went out, I had a cup of tea.

I thought, it's a waste of electrical.

So I took my cup of tea out there and I'm sat there.

And then

I just saw one come back from wherever it had been.

One ant.

It looked devastated.

Because

that had been away.

As far as that was concerned, it had been out to get a leaf or whatever.

Came back, devastation.

And

that's the the thing.

It summed up death for me.

That the ants that are dead, they didn't know anything.

Suddenly, they were there, next minute, load of water, dead.

It's the people who are still living in life that are the saddest, aren't they, after death?

And that summed it up.

What do you think?

Do you

have been better off being there when it happened?

How could you tell the ant waste?

What do you think?

I mean, they run around in circles anyway, don't they?

But this was just kind of going, what's going on?

And did it slow down when it got nearer the nest?

Did it drop the leaf and then you see it run the last few inches?

It just kind of got close and it was like a double take almost.

Almost like it got near the hole and then it was like hang on a minute this can't be it because no one's around and it walked on and it went no it is the hole and it went back and it just sort of stopped for a minute.

Ah and that for me that's the sort of thoughts Deskart should have been having

what

things that you can look at as a human and appreciate it and understand it and go, yeah, that's true, that is like life.

Instead of, oh, am I awake?

Am I asleep?

Well, Well, you might as well be asleep because you're doing nothing else.

Oh, God.

Oh, Descartes, Winehouse, Alan.

Slammed.

What do you do towards enjoying your life?

I don't normally enjoy the thing when I'm doing it, it's after.

It's like that holiday.

When I was on the morning, you don't enjoy the thing when you're doing it, it's after.

What's an example of not enjoying the thing at the moment, but you do after?

You didn't enjoy the holiday.

Say like the holiday.

I've just been holding it.

So you enjoy coming off.

I want to hear it.

You enjoyed the holiday.

You didn't enjoy the holiday.

When I'm there,

I had fleas biting me.

I had mosquitoes biting me.

There was a funny smell of damp in the bathroom.

I was worrying, getting in the sea, thinking, is it stone fishing in?

Now you've got all that going on.

When you get back, you forget about the damp smell.

You forget about the fleas because the bites have gone.

They're not as much of a problem.

So then your brain starts going, well, hang on, what did I enjoy?

And you go, I enjoyed the Dorada fish I had that I've never eaten.

That's an experience.

At the time, I wasn't enjoying it because I'm thinking, when I get back, back, I'm going to have fleas on me again.

So you remember all the good stuff.

It's like an old person when they're dying and they go, I'm having flashbacks.

They don't say, I'm remembering the time my shoes were too tight.

What do they say?

They're having nice, they're going, oh, I love the time with that.

I was wearing flip-flops.

No, they enjoyed, they have flashbacks.

What do you think you're going to do?

You'll go, oh,

the lovely hot summer of 79.

So you don't enjoy anything you enjoy while you're doing it?

At the moment in time, it's not.

I don't understand that.

I I mean, that is the oddest thing I've ever heard of.

I think there's actually a medical term for it.

The someone who's only able to enjoy to have to receive pleasure, to take pleasure.

It's really weird.

That is really weird.

No, because you're busy doing the thing.

So you haven't got time to enjoy it.

So you can't enjoy something you're busy doing.

Because you're busy doing it.

You can't possibly enjoy it.

Or you don't know if you're going to enjoy it because it hasn't finished yet.

Well, Carl, but listen, I know from the

bunch of jumping.

I'd love to do it.

I bet you get a brilliant feeling as you're falling.

Yeah.

But I wouldn't be enjoying it because I'd be going, is the thing going to snap?

Right, okay.

Well,

there is something about that.

Extreme sports, there is a reason why you're doing it.

It is the after effect you enjoy because it's the fear and then

the endorphins that rush to you and you go, oh, God, I survived.

Isn't it brilliant?

That's a feeling of euphoria.

So that's.

No, but you're having a nice dinner.

Right, okay.

Now, when I get a menu given to me in a restaurant, I go, right, what am I going to do here?

Yeah.

Right, well, when I came here, I thought I'd have some lamb chops.

They've got lamb chops, great.

I wonder how much to give you, because I'm quite fancy this pudding they've got.

Right.

Now, I have the lamb chops, it comes with extra veg.

I eat it, enjoy it.

The pudding I wanted, it's gone out the window, I've got no room for it now.

Yeah, but you enjoyed the lamb chops.

You enjoyed the lamb chops, you enjoyed.

You can only get packed so much enjoy it.

If you're enjoying all

your life all the time, there's no point in regretting anything.

That's just greed.

No, but I was looking forward to the pudding.

Well, you shouldn't have have eaten all the veg.

Yeah, but I was enjoying it at that point.

But then you take the pleasure that you had at that point.

No, because I wanted a pudding.

But you didn't want a pudding or you've had a pudding.

No, because I would have had it for the sake of having it.

And then it's

what's it?

I don't know what the whinge is there.

You had a lovely meal.

You had some lovely lamb chops.

You enjoyed the owl.

Because when I read that, they had like profiter rolls on there, I bought a fancier couple of them.

Yeah, and then...

And a chance is gone.

I'm probably not coming back to this restaurant.

Yeah, but you haven't missed a chance.

You had the chance.

You didn't want to take it because you were full up with lovely lamb.

It's not like you didn't enjoy the lamb and the veg.

If you'd not enjoyed that, I can understand your point, but you had a lovely time eating the lamb and the veg.

If the bloke came here and said, You can have the perfita rolls if you eat this lamb you don't like, you go, oh, and you ate the lamb, you didn't like it, but now you're full, then you could wing.

You wish I hadn't been forced to eat the lamb, I could have the puffita rolls.

That's you know,

I had a spicy sausage in the bargain,

right?

Now, the problem was I was enjoying it, but I thought this is this is the spiciest sausage I've ever eaten.

Now, I could only enjoy that the next day night when I knew that is going to be my body, there hasn't been a problem.

So I'd go, that was a nice sausage.

You'd have one of them again.

That was a nice sausage.

But then the next time, surely you'd be enjoying it because you wouldn't have the trauma of the next night because you'd live through it.

And now you just enjoy the lovely spiciness and the sausaginess of the spicy sausage.

Yeah, but the problem is, once you've enjoyed something, it's very difficult to replace what you got from that spicy sausage the first time.

Then why are you looking forward to having another one because let me tell you go on auntie nora yeah she's she's guilty of this all the time she loves a spicy sausage well she she you know i've told you she prepares all the food right she's got them all in bags in a freezer monday tuesday wednesday thursday friday yeah right um

she's got it all there now she what she normally does she makes a big pot of curry right she goes what i'll do i'll pop that in the monday bag and i'll pop it in the thursday bag it's the same curry now she has it on the monday yeah she loves it she thinks i got the mix just just right there.

The spices are good.

The chicken was tasty.

I'm looking forward to Thursday.

I'm looking forward to Thursday.

I can't wait for Thursday.

I'll call her up on the Thursday evening.

I'll go, how was the curry that you had on Monday that you said you were having again on Thursday that you enjoyed?

Didn't enjoy it.

Why is that?

Don't know.

Just want the same.

Now, the weird thing there is, it is the same.

Aunt Inora, that is the same.

It's from the same bag, it's from the same pot.

But

she was expecting too much.

And that's the problem.

If I had that spicy sausage again, it's never going to live up to it.

So forget the spicy sausage.

I've had it.

I've experienced it.

So you know what?

If someone says, well, it depends.

So do you have anything twice ever?

Maybe not.

But this is insane kind of thing.

Because aside from you and your Auntie Norma, and presumably all the other Pilkerton clan, are all as weird as one another, why you phone her up and ask her what she's having for tea, I don't know.

Yeah, that's one thing.

Not only what is happening on Monday, but what are you going to do on Thursday as well?

I'll make a note of it in the Auntie Norma's food diary.

That's proof that you really aren't enjoying your life

to go right off.

Fucking hell.

But then he's phoning her up again late on the Friday to find find out how the Thursday curry went down.

I know, exactly.

Yeah, that's too cool for that people.

Well, they shouldn't have to be happy.

Just read her journal.

No, he makes her happy, doesn't it?

Getting a call.

She's got nothing else to do.

He did the curry to make her happy.

No, he did the first thing.

He loved it on Monday, but you didn't like it on Thursday.

No, the question is, is it better to enjoy something once and not again than not at all?

But you're an experienced person.

You're the only person who experiences this.

That's not the choice.

That's not the choice for normal people.

You can either never enjoy summer or only enjoy it once.

You can enjoy things loads of times.

That's what a hobby is.

A hobby is enjoying things over and over again.

I haven't got a hobby ever.

That's why.

I've had loads of hobbies in the past.

I did the dancing.

I did the boxing.

I did.

Else have I done?

I'm lazy.

That's bad.

But that's what I'm saying now.

I'll soon get bored.

And that's it's like how you enjoy, you know, I love munchies.

Yeah.

But I always enjoy the last one more than...

But that doesn't make sense.

That goes totally counter to your argument.

No, because it's from one packet.

What?

It's from one packet.

What difference does that make?

The first one's true is your favourite.

So hold on.

So if you were to have one munchie, I'll go out there as a munchie, mate.

You'd go, I'm not going to take one unless I can have all of them, particularly the last one.

But what is.

Oh, no, I'd like to have them all, please.

No, no, you can't have them all.

Don't be so greedy.

I have one munchie.

I have the first munchie.

There you go.

I'm going to have one, and then I'm going to get a taste for them, and I'll probably want another.

Well, no, they're my munchies, though, aren't they?

They're just keep them then, forget it.

Well, so you'd rather have no munchies than one munchie.

I'll go and buy a packet.

I'd prefer to go, do you know what?

I'd fancy a packet packet of them.

But why do you enjoy the last?

Why do you enjoy the last munchie more than the first?

Whereas you enjoy the first curry, but not the first one.

But you know it's the last one.

Because it's no, because I'm eating them all in one sitting.

I'm not going, that's for Monday, that's for Tuesday, that's for Wednesday.

I'm talking about a packet of munchies.

Right.

I eat them.

There's probably about 12 in a packet.

Okay.

I shove the first four in without even thinking what I'm eating.

You shove the first four in.

Without even thinking about what I'm getting.

Now, then when you're getting towards the end, you make them last more.

You might buy at the top of them.

You look what's inside them.

You go, I'm liking this.

But I've got what?

Every time.

What, every time you buy a packet of munches?

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, hold on, though.

You must enjoy a packet of munches regularly then.

Not as often as you think.

But I don't know.

When it's signed as I think, I don't know.

So tell me how often you enjoy a packet of munches.

Normally, after sort of maybe once a month.

So, every month you look forward to a lovely packet of munches.

And the same experience.

You like the first one.

I like the last one.

The only thing you know you enjoy, look forward to enjoy, and it fulfills all those expectations is a fucking packet of munches once a month.

Fuck me.

What do you think happiness is?

Again,

you only know the happiness because of the badness.

You've got to have a yin and a yang.

Well, I know what you mean there.

I agree with you on this because it's sort of no good to be handed it on a plate.

I mean, just from my own experience, working for someone does feel better because

you've got a pride and a satisfaction.

I genuinely think it's better to start a business, struggle, go bust, come back than win the lottery.

I genuinely believe that and the older I get the more sure I am of that.

That working hard is itself the reward and I genuinely believe that.

But where does it end?

It's no point having the struggle till you die.

and never get any happiness.

So what's your balance?

We don't have to go into philosophical terms here.

What's your balance?

What's your yin and yang

of a good life?

And by good life, I mean one that you've enjoyed or been satisfied with, and one that you have no regrets or guilt or shame and a bit of pride.

What are you asking me?

Yeah, I've got a bit of all that, right?

But you need the mixture, don't you?

So, you find out what your favourite thing is.

It's like a bag of revels.

Yeah, but you can't cherish guilt or shame.

Did you just say life is like a bag of revels?

Isn't that dangerously close to life's like a box of chocolates?

In Forest Gump over there, yeah.

Jesus.

No, but it's what it is, isn't it?

There's one or two in there that I don't like.

Like what?

The raisin.

The raisin.

No, no, no.

With chocolate.

Yeah, no, no.

Metaphorically, what's the...

Yeah, well, I'm telling you.

I'm actually named what Reveli doesn't like.

Well, I'm telling you, because it works in life.

Go on then.

What the revels on?

Do you like raisins?

Go on.

Well, maybe, if you have enough raisin ones, you eventually go, do you know what?

They're not that bad.

What?

And that's the thing in life.

Well, hold on, wait a minute.

So what are you saying?

Where's this metaphor?

Are you saying suddenly all the bad things in life are pretty good, actually?

If you just get it.

Sometimes, sometimes out of bad comes some good.

Go on.

At the end of the day,

the rebel thing.

What happened to the munchie here?

Oh, well, again, with life, if you have too much munchies, you get sick of the munchies.

So move on, mix it up.

What mixes it up?

Pag of Rebels.

You've got a bit of everything in there.

Right.

Even the ones you don't like, you might like in the end.

You'll go, do you know what?

I'll just take a look at the best.

Okay, lose the analogy now.

Actually, just talking about Rebels now in life.

What about...

What has he enjoyed before?

What would you have written to Jim will fix it to fix for you?

What would have given you pleasure as a kid?

Dear Jim, can you fix it for me to do what?

When I watched Jim Will Fix It as a kid, they never really lived up to what the kid wanted, did they?

But what would you have requested?

But I don't think I would because I think I saw how disappointed most of the kids were.

God, it's like a kid.

The kids like whistling.

They brought out your whistle.

Yes, they could.

They look at it and they go, Can you fix it for me to go into space?

No.

Can I dance with banana armor?

No problem.

That's the ones they pick.

Yeah, so that's why I wouldn't write in because whatever you ask for, you're always going to get a watered down version.

But if Jim could fix it for you to do anything, what would you have chosen?

There's not many things I wanted as a kid.

One thing, just one thing, to choose one thing, please.

That my name was Brett.

Oh, fucking hell!

It's not me!

I mean, it's extraordinary.

There is no predicting that.

Okay, you know what?

I can make that dream come true for you right now, Brett.

We can just call you Brett from now on.

Not a problem, Brett.

Brett Pilkington.

It sounds good.

I love the fact that it's the Carl Brett he wants to replace, not the fucking Pilkington.

It doesn't work either, because, like, then

I told my mum and dad that that's what I wanted.

They started calling me that, but then I forgot.

Well, they went along with it.

Yeah.

So you said, mum, dad, call me Brett from now on.

And they went, all right.

Yeah, but then I kept forgetting that I was Brett, so I wasn't answering, so they went back to Carl.

It's amazing.

So you've had that dream come true.

Yeah, and it wasn't that good.

And that's what I'm saying to you.

Things never live up to what you want.

Dreams, what are they?

Taking one of the big themes of philosophy further,

why are we here?

What's the point of life?

What is it to be human?

The ethical upshots of some of the technological and medical breakthroughs pose, you know, more of their own questions.

Cloning.

Is that a person that's all right?

Well, of course it is.

What about if you grow that for harvesting without the brain?

So growing kind of vital organs shouldn't be in a laboratory.

What about that, you know,

stem cell research?

I mean there's weird things happening all the time with all this transplant stuff.

I've read about one who

you know, a way of sort of you're saying, oh, it's just a bit of meat.

Yeah.

You're saying, oh, it doesn't matter.

No, what I meant,

organs can't have rights and feelings.

No, but listen to this.

Go on.

It's going to be bullshit.

No.

No, no, no.

No,

would you like a small wager?

The sensors went up when he said, right, listen to this.

Okay, I'm going to bet you five pounds, Rick, that this is not bullshit.

Don't let me down, Carl.

Okay, I'm going to bet you they found out it was the heart of a chimp and the bloke's selling like bananas.

Okay.

And the doctor bought it half price at a market.

I've got faith in Carl.

I don't think he's going to let me down here.

Not when we're talking about philosophy.

He's going to have done some careful research.

Let's take a wager.

Five pounds is coming my way.

So, what happened is, do you know how people do

donor cards?

So, I'm filled one out saying, if I die,

you can have my kidney.

So, anyway, he died.

He said, get the kidney out.

He got the kidney out of him.

Someone who needed the new kidney, they were like, Over the moon, there's a new kidney on the way.

But this person who

needed the new kidney had a couple of things.

He wasn't very good at driving.

Yeah.

And he couldn't stand yellow biscuits.

Right.

Couldn't stand yellow biscuits.

He just didn't like them.

He didn't know why.

He's just never liked them.

Anyway, they pop it in.

He's having his test done.

He's in hospital for a couple of days.

Goes home.

He goes,

could do with a yellow biscuit.

Why is the fuck's a yellow biscuit?

Just a.

Banana Balders.

What are you talking about?

Just a yellow biscuit.

Who decides?

I like all biscuits except yellow ones.

Where is this

happened?

I don't know what the colour of the biscuit's got necessarily got to do with it.

It's like a phobia.

It's an odd phobia.

Oh, so he fears the combination of yellowness and biscuitiness.

Right, so a bluke.

He doesn't mind biscuits.

I don't mind yellow.

Don't ever put them together.

That's my worst nightmare.

So, right, I'm confused as to who's got what, whose kidney.

There's a bloke, a bloke's received a new kidney.

He hated biscuits.

He's not ready to drive it, he hates custard creams.

Right, but now, suddenly, after the hospital transport, after the operation,

a really fancy yellow biscuit.

Yeah.

Okay, does he go out for a drive at any point?

He went driving in the room.

Right, because he's going to be terrible.

He loves driving all over the road.

He loves driving.

He liked driving all of a sudden.

What?

He hated it.

I know.

But this is what's weird.

It's bollocks.

The kidney is a filter system.

But if you have something for longer, it's like getting a new tea strainer and suddenly liking yellow biscuits and driving.

No.

The kidney has no impact on anything.

No.

It's like how if you knock about with someone, you pick up their little things that they do.

Suzanne kept saying to me, that's a nonsense.

I said, stop saying that.

You've suddenly picked that up from someone.

I said, you've never said that before.

And he's done it three times in about two days.

Oh, God.

And it's the same thing.

It's the same thing.

Living with Carl.

He doesn't like me saying nonsense.

I don't know why.

But let's be honest: if you're going to live with Carl, you're going to use the phrase that's nonsense.

You're going to start coming up with more and more bollocks, nonsense, rubbish.

Shit.

Round-headed fool, you've picked that from someone.

You've used that 200 times in the last three minutes.

Head like a fucking orange.

Stupid fucking bald cunt.

Where'd you get that from, Suzanne?

I've said it three times just during breakfast.

Now, dim-witted half-fuck.

Steve, five quid.

Yup.

A big question, particularly in the area of

philosophy of the mind,

is

what is intelligence?

It's just

it's what you know, isn't it?

Well, that's knowledge, isn't it, really?

Yeah, it's a form of knowledge, intelligence.

No, I don't think it is.

Why not?

Because intelligence, really, is everything from

the ability to retain knowledge, to understand it, to apply.

It's probably a little bit like the difference between how fast the computer is and how good the program on that computer is.

It's no good.

I'd say I've got a brain that

it can work stuff out.

But sometimes if I tell it too much, it can't remember all of it.

Now, if I had a brain that had loads of memory space,

tell me as much as you want.

Well, that's important.

That's important to us.

But yeah, but some people say that's what intelligence is, isn't it?

Memory.

It's no good saying

he's brilliant.

He learns 10,000 facts a day.

Really?

Yeah, he forgets them the next day.

Yeah.

Well, that's what I'm saying.

Well, yeah, but what good is that?

Trivia is nothing to

show intelligence.

It's just the chat.

It's good for chat, and when you're out and about, if you meet a stranger, it's good to drop something in, like, you know, gone.

What would you drop in?

To show you're intelligent.

Well, just to meet, you've just met me at the bus stop.

You think he's a nice fella.

Steve's at the bus stop.

There he is.

He's there.

He's got his little duffel coat on, his little scarf, his file.

He's got his little glasses there, a little bit mudded up where some ruffians have thrown mud at him.

And I've seen this, and he's cried and he's shat himself.

Well, that's not true.

Yeah, and he's run to the bus stop to go home to his mum.

That's okay.

So at the bus stop, there he is.

You come along, you go, oh, who's this nerd who's shut himself?

That would never happen.

I'd have had a fight with him.

Yeah.

And you go, okay, he's obviously intellectual.

Look at him.

And he's looked at you and he's gone, Jesus Christ, you look thick.

Prove him wrong.

No, what I'd do.

Go on.

There's no point just having one fact.

Right.

I'd wait for him to start a topic and I'd show my intelligence by having a fact on the topic he's brought up.

Okay.

Because we can all have one topic.

Yeah.

That you go,

oh, I'll show this off.

And then, you know, someone goes, Oh, has he been talking to you about the peanut fact again?

And you know, he's obviously telling everyone, then it's just a boring artist.

Okay, so I might just say to you, you know, what are your views on mathematics?

I'd just say the thing with numbers is there's there's there's loads of them.

I remember I told you an interesting fact once again to try and explain um infinity to you and I told you this

there are as many even numbers as even and odd numbers put together.

Yeah.

What do you think of that?

It's I I think I've said before that I don't think things like that are impressive because numbers are man-made anyway.

Right.

If you were talking about, like, when you mentioned about

there's more insects we don't know about than what we do, then you're going, oh, where are they?

Where are they hiding?

It leads a question.

The fact that there's loads of numbers, it's like, yeah, but at the same time,

you could rule numbers out of your life if you wanted to live a life.

Yeah, you could.

There's tribes, there's tribes in the Amazon, yeah, but they're not getting their food from Sainsbury's, are they?

They count to three, they don't need any more numbers than three, and they just have three because they go

one, they know what one is, they go pass us one of them, and

you have one of them.

Anything else, anything but three, they're just saying, Well, you're being greedy, so they don't need it.

But what if they've got five children?

How many kids you've got when you're living in a place like that?

It doesn't matter.

It's not about you, just part of the tribe.

Yeah, so it doesn't matter.

Right, where is this tribe that only counts to three?

It's somewhere like the Amazon or something.

Really?

And there's no more numbers than three.

They don't need it.

Anything more than three, they just say, I'll have more.

Right.

Or give us another three.

But

you can't do that.

Well, yeah.

Yeah.

Or another one or another two.

But what if they need 200?

That's complicated, isn't it?

Well, you just keep going, give us three.

And then

they've got nowhere else to do.

They're living in the Amazon.

Alright, I'm at the bus stop.

Oh, here's your boss.

So far, you've told me nothing about maths whatsoever.

So you're concluding that he is dim.

Fucking idiot.

When I was on holiday recently,

I got talking to an old fella because where I went, it's mainly for old people.

I got chatting with him.

You could tell he had a lot of money.

Yeah.

He's sort of tanned.

He had

that sort of um

rouge coloured sort of jeans.

Oh, yeah.

Which is always sort of telltale sign.

It's it's kind of like he's got money.

Yeah.

And um

the uh red jeans are twice as much there.

It's okay.

I've got money.

Yeah, it's sort of it's either that colour or yellow.

But you can carry it off when you're an old man and especially with the tan, you think, yeah, he's got a few money.

I'm a millionaire.

Do you have any yellow jeans?

We've got one pair, sir, but they're the most expensive ones.

Yeah, they're in the back room.

Can I just see your your bank account first?

There it is.

Oh, Oh, yeah.

You can afford yellow jeans, all right, sir.

Come this way.

So I got talking to him, and it turns out he had a cruise ship.

Right.

Loads of money.

Now, I was chatting to him for about 10 minutes.

Yeah.

What colour was his jacket?

He said he didn't have a jacket on, just a light shirt.

He's wearing red jeans and a white shirt.

Yeah, sort of leather slip-on shoes, I can remember.

How old is he?

It's hard to tell because he was well-tanned.

Was he an attractive man?

He's a good-looking fella.

So he's rich.

So you saw this rich, good-looking bloke with just a shirt on.

Oh, he had a shirt and his pink pants.

His pink pants.

And you just went over

conversation with him.

I don't know.

Why did you notice what colour the crotch area was?

What?

Why did you notice what?

You colour very much at the eyes of the colours.

I can see why you could see.

If you're looking at his face, you could see a white shirt.

But why did you see

the fabric around his test?

This is what it was.

You saw a good-looking old man sat at the bar, you went out and bought him a drink.

Yeah.

You wait for for the barbecue to open.

Right, okay, and you noticed him.

So you noticed the man.

No, no.

I was annoyed.

I don't like late nights on holiday.

Okay.

Jet lag.

Suzanne said, let's go down there early tonight.

Right.

I get there.

I find out the barbecue is not for another 40-odd minutes.

What time was it?

The holiday rep.

Well, I don't know.

It starts at 8.

You're noticing old men's genital coverings, but you don't know what fucking time it is.

Yeah, but get your story somewhere.

What I'm saying to you is the reason I noticed his pants is because what he was talking about, there was no reference points.

I didn't have a clue what he was going on about.

Right.

What was he talking about for your eyes to wander down to his penis is what I'm trying to say.

What made you look at his penis?

Because I got bored.

I didn't know.

What I'm trying to say to you is

his reference points, I had no idea what he was talking about.

What was he talking about?

He was talking about how he was in some Cuban war.

He told me about how he'd met President Reagan.

He told me something about how he'd cut up a cow once.

I think he's a maniac.

He spilled blood on his trousers whilst hacking up his dead wife.

He's gone insane.

He's jithering and chatting away, claiming he owns a cruise ship.

He told me he spent 36 grand on furniture.

And when I sort of looked at him, like,

are you buying?

And he's going, oh, well, I needed a couple of shade lunges.

And it was just, there was nothing I could relate to.

Shade lounges?

Wasn't she in the TV series?

I don't understand why you have no interest in either being in a Cuban war, having met Ronald Reagan, why is that not interesting?

Why be in the city?

Because I mean, I don't know why the trousers were much more appealing to you.

If someone was telling me,

why are you looking at my packet?

So that's my point.

It's just

that you can have a chat with a fella just like I'm talking to the geek at the bus stop.

Even for me.

Sometimes, sometimes

you can't take take part.

What am I meant to say about him meeting Reagan?

What am I meant to say about him being a reason?

Well, aren't you just to ask him asking questions about he was in a war?

When I sort of took it back to, oh, I wonder what meat they're doing at the barbecue, he wasn't bothered.

He loved the fact that that's your contribution.

He's talking about the missile crisis and you're going, oh, yeah.

He's met presidents and important people.

He's experienced extraordinary things, which would be fascinating to anyone.

And you're not interested.

You just want to know whether the situation is.

But I mean, there it is, you see.

He's come down.

down, he's looked at you without prejudice and thought, I don't know this guy.

The language barrier probably saved you.

And he thought he's probably a smart guy.

I'd tell him a bit of my life.

Why is he looking at my meat?

Why is he looking at my meat and two veg?

No, either barbecue, you don't need a barbecue, it's loving your fucking sausage.

When you're talking to a stranger,

aren't you meant to keep it above the waist?

Keep it

looking at his bollocks, keep it erect.

I made Carl laugh.

Well, there you have it.

The in-depth study of the mother of science, the Ricky Duray's guide to philosophy.

You can still enjoy the back catalogue of these guides: medicine, natural history, and the arts, and seasons one to five of the Ricky Gervais show.

Over the last few years,

with all our explorations, our studies,

what have you learnt?

What's the one big thing you've learnt since we've been doing this, since you've met myself and Stephen, since we've been prodding you, since we've treated you like an ape that we want to teach to speak?

What have you learnt about yourself and the world?

One thing, if you had to take it with you?

No, I don't think I've learnt anything that that substantial.

Ever?

During all this.

There's not been anything groundbreaking, has there?

We've chatted about midgets with no arms and legs, gay ones.

I don't know if that will ever crop up again in a chat.

So

even if I've learned something from it, I don't think it'll ever crop up again.

So it's no use.

That's That's what I'm saying to you about information and intelligence.

It's if you can use it.

So you're saying

this series of audiobooks at the price of £1.95 is absolutely worthless and pointless.

Yeah, I suppose it is, yeah.

Thanks.

Good night.

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