Origin Story of Brian Scalabrine’s “White Mamba” Nickname, Rory’s Masters Moment & NIL Drama

I don't know what it was like for you, but man, I had a job and I got like paid a thousand bucks. Dude, I thought I was the richest dude in the world.
Can you imagine having a million dollars and going to college? What is that even like? All right, welcome to another episode of Throwbacks. Please, if you can, follow us at Throwback Show.
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Everything's just Throwback Show. You should know at this point.
Matty Ice. What's up, buddy? How are we doing today, bro? Well.
Well. I got to be honest with you.
My neck is killing. My neck the last couple weeks.
Well, pulled the calf muscle last week playing hoops with you when you were in town. Still knotted up, feeling better.
My neck has been bothering me for whatever reason. So I saw a chiropractor for that last week.
I'm sitting here. I'm just going to vent a little bit.
And all my guys out there listening are going to understand this. I don't have a lot of quiet places in my house, obviously, right? Like I have dogs.
I have four kids, which is fine. I don't have my own office.
My wife has the office. So you've seen my setup, right? Yes.
My pod and kind of my space. I'm looking around this around this room right now, dude.
And it's just, honestly, it's starting to piss me off a little bit because I know that maybe you can't relate. Cause you got a 9,000 square foot house in Ohio and you got so much space, but the, but my guys out there, like my, my, my garage has turned into my wife's storage space.
And I always knew that, but like, I have a couch, I have a TV, I have a Peloton. I have all sorts of here on my golf clubs that I'm looking at that have been used once in a year.
But now I have literally a stack of outdoor furniture chairs right in front of me. I have my wife's middle of her van, by the way.
Yes, she has a minivan. The middle seat of her van.
Josie goes minivan? Oh, dude kia carnival hey black on black it's actually wow um dude i'm just i'm i'm you know i don't know what i am i'm a little you need some space you need some space of your own i i enjoyed a little bit because it's like cluttery and it's like kind of dirty i walk in here barefoot my, my feet turn black, you know, that type. It's like my spot, but it's just becoming like I'm becoming my wife a little bit.
And I know you're like this in the fact that like, I do like a little, I do, I do like things to be a little neater. You know what I mean? Like in my workplace, I like to come out here, have a little coffee, turn on the TV, get ready to do throwbacks with you, maybe rip some games.
And it just doesn't feel like my space. You're a man without a country right now.
I've been there. You gotta remember, I lived in New York.
So I don't know what to do. What do I do? You have a couple of options.
Option one is you just, it's spring. Spring clean the shit out.
Like just take a day and say, I'm not working out today. I'm not doing anything today, but I am just getting this garage in an order that I could see fit.
Or option two, sell the house. Sell the whole thing, start over, bro.
Sell the whole thing. Sell the whole thing, start over.
That's so funny. But listen, first of all, how- By the way, I'm good.
You are good. This is the, honestly, everyone listening now, I know Matt pretty much almost a year at this point.
Yeah, no, over a year now. And this is probably the most heated for a non-sports thing I've ever heard.
I don't get super heated. I'm very calm.
I'm very West Coast personality. It fits me.
I'm not heated. I'm not.
I'm just, I'm getting to the point where like, you know this, like you wake up, my neck doesn't feel good. It's kind of pissing me off.
My calf, like I start my rec league here in a couple of weeks and I need to be a hundred percent. And I'm just looking at my spot and this was my spot.
Like I put a lot of effort into making this spot. And now I'm just, I'm battling, dude.
I'm battling the, I'm battling just all of that just, that's just you know coming my way dude like there's just a lot of stuff that i can't control and pack up and move to the midwest you could own you probably your own city i'd rather sleep in the fleas in my house and then move to the mid so you you said you have rec league starting up you know who after you brought out jason shout out jason mcintyre yeah after you brought me to play do Shout out Jason McIntyre. Yeah, after you brought me to play, do you know who, and I'm so happy for our guest today because this is someone I would want to go into a rec league war with.
Like, if we were picking up a former athlete who still wants to compete, our guest today, I don't know what, I'm going to say his name and then you got to help me. What do we call him? Brian Scalabrini, everybody.
The white Mamba. I can't wait to talk white basketball players with him.
What are you going to call him? Because you guys have like the whole USC connection. You can call him Scal? You can call him Mamba? What do you call him? Brian? I feel like no one calls him Brian.
No, exactly. That's why we're going to call him Brian.
And we'll see if he responds. If those of you who are just trying to- I might call him Mamba.
His one-on-one content against George the Messiah, West Forge Street in New York City was A1, top of the line. You must watch it.
By the way, is that guy any good? No. I mean, like he's- He throws like those hooks.
Like I see him all over. Like obviously I get what they're trying to do.
Like it's show- Like is he good enough to beat Brian Scalabrini? No. Is he good enough to beat you? No.
Can he maybe, because he's got about 40 pounds, can he back me down and hit a hook shot? Probably. I've played with guys like that.
They just back you down and they just throw the behind the screen. But he's a really great personality and he's built something really cool.
He called out Scal because i feel like anytime any youtube creator or any pickup player thinks hey what nba player could you have gotten after they picked brian scalabrini and he had to go he had to go stand up for himself and boy did he he did he's i love he talked to i love him obviously i mean celtics nba there's a lot of stuff going on right now this week. A lot of playing games.

Playoffs kicking off on Saturday.

Playoffs are starting.

Some great matchups.

Scal went to SC.

He was a part of a couple of really great USC basketball teams

right before I got there.

Also, just, yeah, I mean, just, he's got great stories.

I think the guy is awesome.

He played on a couple NBA finals teams,

played with some Hall of Famers.

Yeah, we'll get some playoff preview.

Yeah, there's a bunch of, man. Playoff preview stuff too and then i want to i want to tell you my proud moment because you know my my almost six-year-old super into nicks basketball i think he now can talk about eight players pretty much the whole thibodeau rotation crazy he gets mad when campaign comes in the game he's he's starting to get it and while i was leaving la and then once i got home he's like dad so i was teaching him all about the playoffs and he's like so when did the knicks play and they announced it and i said that's all that saturday 6 p.m and he's like i don't really know when that is because he doesn't there's like he loses concept of days and times like could you put it in our family calendar because i I cannot miss that game.
We're watching it. Right.
And like one lone tear. Oh, absolutely.
In the corner of my eye. You're doing your job as a father.
Bree Bree was like, you don't put anything in the family calendar ever. You always try to just memorize it.
And this is the one thing you put with alerts. I have, I have 15 minute countdown alerts and our family calendar.
Cause the playoffs are starting. That kid's going to be the general manager of the New York Knicks one day, and you're going to be leaving voicemails like your mom leaves you to him.
Well, it's funny because I took him to the game, and I said it was like a work trip, so he thinks I work for the Knicks. He thinks Throwbacks is like the number one Knicks podcast, And we, I feel like no one even lets me really talk about the Knicks in the way.
We talk, we talk about the Knicks during the world series. We talk about the Knicks in the off season.
We talk, we'll talk about the Knicks when they go on vacation after the first round. I mean, that's what we're going to do.
Whoa. Is that a pick? Are you picking the Pistons? No, I'm not picking the Pistons, but they're going to, I mean, they to— I mean, they play Boston round two, bro.
They're going to get smoked. We're going to ask the White Mamba all about that.
You can't sit here and tell me right now. If you get through Detroit, which I— You made that a very big if just now.
No, I'm just saying. It sounds like it's a big if for you.
There's no guarantee. If you get through Detroit, there's no way in hell you believe that your New York Knicks are getting through the Boston Celtics.
And it's really not an indictment on the Knicks. It's just I think that's how good the Celtics are.
Here's what I'll give you, and then we'll leave the rest. You're going to give us fight.
You're going to give us fight. I know that.
We'll leave the rest for Scal. Yeah, I don't think there's any team I feel good about going into a series against Boston.
I don't feel good about Cleveland. If it's the finals, even if it's OKC or even your Lakers, I really don't feel, I think when Boston's healthy and motivated, they are significantly better than just about every team.
And then maybe it gets a little smaller when you start talking like Thunder, Lakers, Cavs. Yeah.
So I don't feel good. The West is wild.
The West, I think one, I mean, gosh, I mean, the Warriors clinched, right, the seventh seed. Warriors, Rockets will be a matchup.
I mean, the Warriors can make a run. I don't think they'll make a run, but the West, one through seven, because you have to include Steph and the Warriors in there, I think are all teams that can get to a finals.
I'm saving it all for Scal because I'm also going to try to see if I could bait Scal into giving the Knicks a compliment. I'm going to see because he works for the Celtics.
He's going to on your team. We'll see.
I'm going to play some mental warfare early with Scalabry. I already talked to everyone in my Knicks group chat.
We're going to play a little mental warfare if the Knicks even get to the second round. According to Matt, Matt said, if.
Big if. I like the Knicks, man.
I'm rooting for you guys. That's fair.
I'll take that. That's a big compliment coming from you.
I'll take that. Shout out to the boys, man.
You're raising them right. It's awesome.
Raising them right. Tear in the eye.
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We always tell a story and a unique adventure that we got going on. You already talked about the garage.
Well, you already talked about the garage, Matt. What is going on in your life now? I mean, I want to preface this by just saying shout out to the wife who just fucking holds it down with the baby and the kids.
And I travel all the time, especially in the fall. She left yesterday.
She's at Oklahoma doing some NIL presentations, being a boss. She's presenting in front of the football team, all the international athletes.
So she's crushing it. She's doing great.
But that means that I'm solo with the kids. And I'm saying all four because Cole's 18.
He's in and out, but he's here. I had to wake up this week with him and get him ready for school at 6 a.m.
while I was up feeding at 4, 4.30 with the baby. My adventure is just I'm against the ropes.
I'm in the trenches. I'm 41.
I'm an old dad and a young dad at the same time. I approached this week and these last couple days like I would approach a football game.
I'm just mentally locked in, bro. I'm mentally locked in.
I forgot how to swaddle a baby because because because josie josie has i made notes dude for everybody that can't watch this i made notes about my feeds but i'm all feeded up you can't is it that's a little glare okay so you said like reminders of your feedings and how to swaddle feeding how to swaddle videotape i'm just like i feel like I'm preparing for the Super Bowl and I've been preparing. So, you know, the adventure this week is just solo, solo dad in it right now.
Uh, the wife just, she crushes life in general. Um, but you know, every once in a while I got to hold it down.
I'm holding it down. Donuts in the morning for the kids.
Cause I'm not making food. I'm just, it's just, it's no holds bar.
You're You're going donuts, Matt. You can't make an egg.
Come on, dude, make an egg. Dude, I can't make an egg when I'm holding a baby.
I got two psychopaths. I'm also getting my oldest one.
I'm getting ready to work. I'm doing, it's hard, bro.
It's hard. Don't, well, you know what? I guess now that's a quick route for you to become like,

Oh,

mom's away.

Dad's watching us donuts for breakfast.

It's like,

your kids are going to love that.

Cause that's the only time it's,

you know what?

There's not,

there's not,

yeah,

there's not,

there's not a way,

there's no other way to approach this other than you just,

you approach it head on,

dude.

And you just,

you ride it.

You just go,

you're going to get through it.

It's,

you know,

48 hours and,

uh,

you know,

we're,

we're on our way.

Well,

I will say too,

I love you. dude and you just you ride it you just go you're gonna get through it it's you know 48 hours and uh you know we're on our way well i will say too if you could fit it in figure out a time just do some have something nice waiting for josie when she gets home because you're gonna be welcoming her back like like luca coming you know what you should do like you know what's waiting for her me Me.
You should play a thank you video like they did for Luca when she comes home. Show all Josie highlights with the baby.
You should do like a welcome home video. That's really funny.
We should do that for social. Good idea.
Anyway, when she gets home, she's getting all 6'5", 220 pounds. I'm about 220 right now.
I was getting a couple pounds this week. All right.
Donuts for breakfast will do that. All right.
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Do you really think European basketball players think American white basketball players are soft?

I mean, I think that's probably, like think that things are changing now. Right.
But seven years ago. Yeah.
Yeah. Probably they do.
It's hard for me. So like from the creators of the Euro step, you know, even though it was Ginobili who really kind of mastered the Euro.
Those dudes are tough. I'll tell you right now, like those guys were like 15 now the ones that make it those guys when they're like 15 years old are playing against 25 year old men you put any any elite player in that environment where you where mommy and daddy is not there to save you or anything like that them dudes that come out of there they're gonna grow up to be pretty savage and it would be the same thing here if we did it but we don't like you know 15 plays 15 matter of fact sometimes there's like some 18 year olds playing in you 15 right like yeah the double hold back oh yeah it's it's over there it's like survival of the fittest man i remember when i went during the lockout and i was playing on Wednesdays, the junior team would come practice with us.
So I've been in the league 10 years at the time. And there'd be like some 15-year-old guarding me.
And it was on every win. And the coaches were not soft on them.
So I think they have a mentality that if they had the numbers that we had, they had the athletes that we have, they believe that they're better at coaching basketball than we are. Well, we're, we're talking Europeans and we're talking white dudes in the NBA.
And I just, I, because I'm a Laker fan. Okay.
And well, I love you. We're Trojans and we just missed each other by one year.
I think, I think you had left, but Austin Reeves had this quote and he said, said you know as a white guy in the nba i sometimes look at white players and i'm like they're not very good so so it's a stigma that i think is real what are your thoughts on that yeah i mean it's just like this if you're if you're white you got to prove yourself and it's not it just doesn't start in the nba it starts when you're 12 years old. And, you know, like if you're going to play against the best of the best, then you're probably going to be like one out of every 10 white guys compared to, you know, like nine black guys in the gym, you know, and that's just the way it's going to be.
But the ones that do and want to live in that environment, those are the guys that, you know, they're going to be a little bit tapped like the austin reeves is tapped tyler hero peyton pricker my boy cooper flag up in maine like and i think there's a big shift happening because the game is becoming a more skill game which is a more physical game but yeah but no no doubt and like austin reeves i've said this before yeah like he doesn't move like a white guy. He's like shifty and stuff like that.
He doesn't. Watch him.
Like he's like, he's got like a herky jerky to him that you just don't see. And you don't see that with a lot of black players, but like you definitely don't see that with white players.
And I think he's nasty. I can't believe he was undrafted or whatever.
How did that happen? It's crazy. Yeah.
You know, you guys got me thinking too. I'm trying to think because I've been watching the NBA since I was eight years old.
The Trent Tucker game was the first game I ever watched where I was like, whoa, this is a cool sport. Trying to remember like the first foreign player that I saw that I was like, wow, this guy's unbelievable.
I think it was Petrovic. I think it was Drazen Petrovic was the first.
And then Sabonis' dad, not your Vetus, our Vetus. You don't remember Tony Kukoc? You don't remember Stojakovic? I do, but I think Drazen was before Kukoc.
I think Drazen was before. I remember like Marshalonis on the Warriors.
Yeah. Yeah, there was a lefty.
And so, you know, I don't know if you've told this story much publicly about how you actually got the white Mamba nickname. Is that in Chicago? Is that when you were in Chicago? Yeah.
And their fans? Yeah. I mean, you know, like I just was like, I was like a spoof.
Like I was totally fine with, you know, I know who I am. I don't care what people think.
Right. So, you know, I always tell people, yeah, you know, we know for sure at the end of games, the ball is going to Kobe, the black Mamba, and the ball is going to me, the white Mamba.
Now, we might be up by 20 when that happens, but everybody knows where the ball is going. Now you just got to try to stop it.
It's one thing to know. It's another thing to try to stop it.
I didn't embrace any of the going in at the end of the game when I was in Boston.

I felt like, well, that's so disrespectful to the guys who built the lead.

Now, in Chicago, hell no, man.

I used to tell Thibodeau, man, hey, Thibodeau, we're up 20.

First of all, I'm not going to blow the lead.

And second of all, you got to give these people what they want. They don't want to see Derrick Rose right now.
They want to see me. God, yeah.
James not doling out those minutes easily to anybody. I was talking to my boy.
I said, hey, we're having Scout Brini on. He goes, dude, please tell me if this is a true story.
He goes, I used to see him working out at the Equinox in Westwood all the time wearing his Chicago Bulls outfit. He said he saw you there a couple times rocking your whole Chicago Bulls warm-up suit.
That's not true. Maybe it was team issue.
Maybe it was team issue gear. I can tell you one thing right now.
I am not a uni. I don't do the uni thing.
And when you see a kid come to basketball camp i pull him and his parents to the side and i talk to him i say bro let me help you out first of all the glasses gotta go get some contact lenses and then second second this is the most important thing i'm gonna tell you you can't show up wearing tatum shoes selting shorts and tatum's jersey you're never gonna get any respect like, right? I know you like Tatum, but it just doesn't work like that. Go buy the kid some white t-shirts and get them random mesh shorts because I want the best for the kid.
This is the best advice you'll ever get. Don't be a uni.
So I can guarantee you I've never been a uni. But you did work it out at the Equinox westwood oh yeah oh yeah yeah that's that's that's a good place to be working i would work out there one time i worked out with like i didn't even know the guy it was justin bieber he was in beverly hills and it's amazing matt you ain't gonna believe this after every set after every set he had three guys with him And every time he would give full on dap, like full on, like Rojo.
Yeah, we did it. We did it.
We're here. And the next one, way to go.
You look at this wall. And he'd go to the next one.
I'm thinking, workout definitely over. You know, like, you know, I get it.
Like at the end of a workout, hey, man, good work today. Right.
Dude, every set. 135.
Every set, like you went to do shoulders, you came back, and it was full embrace every time. Come on, man.
What is going on here? But I've enjoyed my time. I was working a little bit with Fox and enjoyed my time out in L.A.
I got benched for Justin Bieber. I played once in the NBA celebrity game in L.A., and I take that stuff way too serious.
I love pickup and all that stuff. I'm like the only one who really tries in those games.
And I already have my starting spot ready. Bieber was not slated to be there.
So we're putting on our, you know, our jerseys getting suited up and I hear a bunch of women yelling in like the tunnel. So I'm like, what the hell is that? And Bieber just like, it was a pickup game.
Walked into the televised ESPN game. I was like, do you guys mind if I run? Of course.
And who do you think gets bumped out of the starting lineup for Justin Bieber? You. Me.
I played three minutes that game, and Bieber – no, he didn't even have a jersey. He didn't even have a jersey on.
He's not bad, though, I think, right? He's fine. He's not your first pick if you're playing pickup.
Isn't like Brian McKnight nasty or something like that, right? Brian McKnight notoriously nasty. You know who else was always – oh, what was that dude's name? It'll come to me.
There's someone else. Another actor I'm thinking of that – and by the way, Denzel famously could ball and got the bucket on Ray Allen and he got game.
That was true. I think he kind of rope-a-doped him.
It was like, all right, let's do a rehearsal. See, I'm gone.
And he laid it in. Jesus.
Here's what I don't understand. Listen, I can't act and I can't play football.
Why does common people think that they can hoop? What is the deal with that? I never want to grab a football and tell some linebacker,

yo, I'll run your ass over.

I would never want to be in a featured film out there.

I'd be like, I'm not an actor.

I'm not good.

But why is it about basketball?

What is it about basketball? I can tell you.

It's the only sport that you can kind of pick up and go play with your boys.

I think it's because, yeah, you can literally, especially in like New York, there's hoops on every corner. I can wake up at 8 a.m.
with a ball. That's all I need.
And I can hit maybe 10 collegiate threes in a row and be like, yo, I can fucking do this. I can play with these guys.
Listen, your stuff with George the Messiah, that was unbelievable because I know it's like a bit,

and he's like, but still, you showed up.

You didn't just say, oh, I'll smoke you.

You went there.

At what point did you realize, I got to just go there and just shut this dude up and just blank him?

If you sprinkle in enough of that stuff every couple years just to remind everybody, you know?

And I love to tell everybody, you know, like, listen, if there's 5,000 NBA players,

It's not a big deal but if i'm 5 000 the last best player in the nba or the worst player in nba history i will go show and smoke you guys but um yeah everyone wants to challenge me i just don't get it i just don't because. That's why.
I understand. But just think about it this way.
Like, you could be soft in the league. But if you're white and you play 11 years and your teammates kind of like you, there's no way.
You're tapped. There's no way.
You can't be soft. You can't.
Like, if Garnett is stamping me, you think he's ever going stamp some soft ass white kid there's no way so there's i try to stay away from being like that but and and you know obviously matt you must have seen some crazy people that come across it there and sports is full of people who can function that are nuts right like yeah that's true you have to be a little bit nuts to do this. And, um, and so he, he challenged me and I was in New York.
We were playing the Brooklyn Nets. You know, I do the Celtics and West 4th street was a mile down the road.
I was like, all right, let's go. Let's go.
Those videos. Well, first I think you could, I think you're onto something.
I think you could really like like like remember the professor on and one like i think you could i think you could do something and like market and fucking make some money doing that shit because it's it's awesome i was telling i was telling uh i told jerry this story so you i mean you're probably boys of luke walton because you guys were played at least against each other in college and the pro whatever and luke south Bay dude.. So we retired the same year in 2013.
So we would go to the Equinox in Manhattan Beach all the time. We were like, what do we do with our life? So we're like, he's like, Matty, let's play in a rec league.
So we played in a rec league. And so it kind of goes to your point.
So Luke was, and Luke would always tell him, he's like, Luke played what, 10, 12 years, role, was perfect. Like, Phil loved him, Lakers, all that stuff, and had a great career.
But he always knew, like, his role. We play in this league, Scal, and, like, it was legit.
Like, it's a good couple kids, like, would come from the Drew League and play. Like, it was good.
It was a good league. He probably averaged 35 a game.
And he was hitting, oh, he wasn't even trying. and he was hitting like the thing was he was hitting like eight threes a game and i'm like i didn't know he's like he's like maddie he's like dude just because i don't shoot in the nba like doesn't mean i can't shoot like i couldn't shoot when there was a six eight guy guarding me obviously because i wasn't going around but in this shit he's like dude it kind of goes to your point of like i i think you had the the famous quote like i'm closer to lebron than you know whatever than you are to me or something like that and luke reminded he's like dude he's like he's like that's the difference between nba and a lot of these other guys that don't make it well i mean so it's all processing right and you play the sport which is i think that as it for from a team sport standpoint the highest processor you have to be across the board higher than a point guard higher than anybody as a quarterback right so when you if you mess around and play flag football by the time that ball is like hi you already know what you're doing and you're gonna you know i'm gonna pretend i'm doing this this and this but i knew i'm always right? That's just the way it is.
And for Luke, it's the same thing. I always tell people, you ever watch that movie Sherlock Holmes where he's in that fight and he like props everything before it happens and then he's like talking you through it? Like when I play against like commoners, that's what basketball is like.
But when I'm playing against like Derrick Rose or Russell Westbrook, I'm like living on an edge. I want to try this little twitch and trying to guess right.
Right. But when you play just a dude out there, everything that they do is like, what should I have for dinner tonight? As you cut them off and you take the ball, then you outlet it.
It's like they move so slow compared to like what you've done think about like when you're get behind the center i mean let's think about what you have to know going into that right compared to playing flag football you know i was he had like eight threes in a row one game i'm like i didn't know you could shoot he just smirked at me i was like listen i've always been someone who knew i even i just played recently with matt in a pickup game and this dude was like testing them and said to matt like you don't ball it's like the dude's wearing like like he didn't know scowl dude i i pulled a my wife i pulled a uh you would you'll appreciate this so we're playing we're playing at bay club right we're playing tuesday night good good actually, Mozgov. A little too young for me.
Mozgov shows up. Mozgov lives in the neighborhood.
Like, good players, high school. Like, it's a good run.
It's like, you would be, you might not get tested, but it's like legit, legit dude. So, and my oldest son's playing.
He's good. He's 18.
Like, his boys are high school hoopers. There's this dude, and I'm not, I don't talk a lot of shit on the court because like, I can't, like I got two new hips, but like I'm an athlete, I'm competitive.
And so this big dude's like six, five to 40 kind of athletic and would just go straight to the rack every time. But every time he went to the rack, he'd call a foul every time.
Oh, and he would flop to the ground. It's a, it looked like a linebacker.
And after, and, and the whole, like the crowd crowd all the guys waiting to pick the next game is like oh yeah he's soft like it was the whole the whole gym knew so like after the fourth time he flops but oh one after that there was like a phantom steel that he called foul he wasn't even in the play so i started getting fucking pissed at this point i never see matt flip the switch i was just like i, cause like, you know, you lose your off the court for like an hour. So like, so then he starts talking shit.
And I did pull, like, I did pull, like, this was great. I'm an athlete.
So like, I was wearing my old Houston Texans, like sweater thing that he got from the fucking team. Yeah.
It was like, I still have it. Yeah.
It was, it was team gear, dude. And, uh, he's like, he's like, man, you, you're not a hooper and i'm like no man but i played in the fucking league for eight years bitch i was like saying all of this shit i was so hot and jerry told the story to my wife and she's like really you pulled that card i go i go please you were not there and then the last part of the game the last part of the game he ties it up this is after jerry shoots an air ball but we won't get into that point.
He ties it up, and he pulls like a Draymond Green where I go to get the ball out of bounds, and he's kind of blocking, and he puts his elbows in my – won't let me get the ball, and he elbowed me in the mouth. And I almost like – I mean, I wasn't going to fight him, but I almost fought him, dude.
This was last week, dude. It was a podcast.
The whole thing whole thing is strange but once again hoop is always the one like everyone thinks that they can hoop it's the funniest thing it is really the funniest what what is uh just speaking of soft and all that and i'm curious because i i love like i love basketball i love i love all these pods or all these guys are like just talking. Right.
And, and lately, and you kind of,

you,

I would say you fit into the old head,

right?

You played with,

you saw all the KG,

all those guys,

but you cover the game now.

So you see all the youngsters.

What,

what is like,

what's your thought on this generation?

And like,

you see guys like Tim Hardaway coming out and talking smack and all these

old school guys who you respect.

What are your thoughts on just the game itself now and these players yeah i think i think if we do this pod and i'm just gonna gas up the these players they're amazing their skill level is off the chart whatever this won't go viral but if i said something stupid like we would beat this team by no no yeah and then that's gonna go out and everyone will have a comment about it but i think for the most part i think a lot of old heads like respect the skill level of these guys i don't know if it's like that in football like as a skill level like this is like 10x compared to when we played right i'll give you an example uh like a dribble handoff to a hand handoff to a three that would happen like three guys in the league could do that there's like eight guys on every team there's centers are doing league that come and get a ball off a hand back and let it fly and so when you add skill to the mix it makes defenses a lot harder it makes everything more difficult now i understand what the this generation is saying like you know everything is protected now you don't want players going to the basket getting hurt i get all that but like i don't think anybody can ever argue just like you could take our generation like 2000 to 2010 right it's when i played i'm sure we're more skilled than they were in the 80s or 70s but these guys are more skilled than we are and i think maybe in 20 years they'll be more skilled group. Right.
We're just going to keep on seeing more and more of it. And I think people ask me all the time, will this current Celtic team beat your 08 team? And I think they'd smoke us.
Right. Like, I just think we were seeing players at such a ridiculous level.
And I think I see your Mamba mentality thing in the back. It started all with like the Kobe Bryant and the stuff that he did has now like pushed through to this generation.
Individual workouts at 6 a.m., you know, making 500 shots a day. And, you know, Steph Curry is like a product of that.
And we're going to start seeing more and more of that. These guys love the workout.
They train. They're more professional.
They take care of their bodies. It's a very different generation and i i think they're just a lot better than we ever were that's just yeah sorry real quick jerry do you do i do miss the like the center right like going through the post and like you don't get that like do you miss that brand of basketball because now like i do think like you mentioned kobe yeah but i think steph steph like i think steph changed the game It's a lot, like, I always compared to, like, Patrick Mahomes.
Like, Patrick Mahomes changed the way the quarterbacks play because all the off-script stuff. And just, like, literally my oldest son practices, which I don't necessarily agree with, but he'll practice the sidearm throw, which is fucking bananas.
I'm like, dude, we were always you know perfect you know perfect uh mechanics and this and that i do think steph changed the way like the game is played do you do you do you see it ever going back let me just ask you the question what's harder to guard if you were it's harder to guard a guy in the pocket is it harder to guard like a guy scrambling around and making it up on the fly no yeah i mean you're no it's hard when a guy can do both it makes it virtually impossible which a lot of these kids can do too i it's just like you there's not it's it's it's actually a great comparison because you saw like tyler hero last week right he pulled up on a wide open layup i'm sure you saw it and again the circumstance are down five i think whatever and he tried he hit a three instead of taking a lay layup and like hey let's foul whatever but like that mentality a lot of people are like well that's the mentality now it's like hey let's like a three is a high percentage shot for a lot of these guys quarterbacks it's just taught differently you know like like they're everything that's taught it used to be taught from the feet up now it's like mechanics are out the window it's like hey how can you get the ball through these windows? No look. It's legitimately taught that way, which is crazy.
So I love basketball. I love watching.
I love the evolution of it. I think that also goes into like, I don't think these players are soft by any means.
I think it's just the game has changed so much. Like you said, you had true centers, power forwards.
Now centers like Jokic, it's crazy what these guys can do. So I think if you look at it this way, I think it'll be a little bit easier to digest instead of thin slicing it.
Everyone's trying to get a dunk, right? And the best way to get a dunk is to have a bunch of shooters on the floor because that dunk, that space will open up with guys that are on the perimeter, right? We use this term like gravity, like what players have gravity. Now the Lakers got Luka and they got LeBron and Luka.
Like both those guys command two players to them. Now it's just a matter of finding the open player.
I don't know, like if you had a receiver that drew a double team every time, like that guy might get two catches, but the rest of the people are the ones that are benefiting from it right or if you had a nasty running back then all of a sudden they got to put eight in the box and all of a sudden you're just like this is great man i i can deal with this all day so it's all about gravity and i think like skill players or big men that can shoot the ball create gravity create space and and jerry like if you want to know if the knicks are going to win their series car Carlton Towns has to make shots. And if he's not dominant, they're going to lose to Detroit.
Because that's a hard thing to guard. It's that one five pick and roll with Brunson.
If Towns is dominant, they're going to have a good run. If Towns is scoring 18, they're not.
Because now all of a sudden the defense doesn't have to overcommit, which doesn't open up lanes. Right.
But it still comes down to if someone decided we're not going to leave Carl Anthony Towns, well, the Knicks are going to get a bunch of layups because of it. So you have to start with the origin.
The origin is get a layup. And then from there, how do we get the best amount of layups? Yeah.
If you have guys that could shoot, you're going to have more space and it's going to be a lot easier at the rim to make those decisions. Well, I wasn't going to say anything.
I was going to wait for someone else to say the magic word. Nick, you said it.
So let's get into a little... I already broke down the series.
You don't need to know anymore. Let's break down when they play the Celtics the second round.
No, no. You better beat Detroit first.
In all seriousness, Matt and I were talking about this the other day too. It feels like, for me, someone who's been watching basketball intensely for years and years, we've had such a run where it's like, it was like, it's probably either going to be LeBron or the Warriors.
We had these years and years where you could kind of at least pencil in one team into the finals if not two you really had a good fit regardless of even what seed this feels like the first time in a long time the number one seeds are not everyone's first choice for the fight obviously boston finished two to me boston is the team to beat i think they're a nightmare for every team. You could talk, oh, Boston's going to smoke the Knicks.
I'm like, who is the Celtics not going to smoke if they're healthy and motivated? But when you look at the one seeds, OKC, Cleveland, they get their respect. They won 60-something games each, but everyone I talk to, no one's talking about the Thunder Cavs finals matchup that's coming yeah that's gonna be hard to happen but i don't i i look at the thunder and i think they're like flawless i know everyone wants to point up point out hey they don't have any experience i'm like i hate that right i don't hate that argument what about when casein wallace is coming off the bench or lou door is coming off the bench i don't even talk about their offense yet and they're guarding people experience does not matter at that point and so i just think they like they are so physical on the perimeter they got rim protection they can rebound like dude those guys are so good so when you look at all the other teams out west the only other team that i think is nasty and no one's talking about is the Clippers, man.
Is Kawhi Leonard going to be helping? I watch Kawhi Leonard play, and I can make an argument against anybody in the world that he's the best player in the NBA. The problem is he never plays through an entire playoff series.
But if you see Kawhi Leonard on the floor and he's standing on the right side of the wing defensively, you cannot attack in that 15-foot area. You have to run different kinds of offenses.
You literally cannot go anywhere he's at, let alone talk about the offense. James Harden, who you think should be washed by now, who's playing great basketball right now.
If that team is healthy, they'll be good. I don't know what to make of the Lakers.
On paper, they're not supposed to be a good defensive team. Somehow, J.J.
Reddick got them playing great defense. Yeah.
I don't get that one. Denver's a mess, but they got the best player in the world.
So, the West is incredible. So, every series.
And Minnesota's not no slouch. Look at their record.
I think they're 18-4 over over the last 22 and they got to go against the Lakers. They got a young guy that's pretty cocky and confident.
They talk about random dudes that are confident. Anthony Edwards believes he's the greatest player to ever walk on the field.
I love that. I love that.
It's like flip a coin out West and I don't care whoever gets you that gauntlet is going to be kind of worn down, but it would be an accomplishment in and of itself just to make the finals out of the West. Outside of, obviously, your Celtics, who we can talk about.
I mean, Jerry mentioned the Cavs. You didn't even talk about that.
Is there a team in the East that scares you as a Celtics? Or just in general, like, hey, this team, keep an eye out. Yeah, I think it's the Pacers.
And because they don't have an individual player, like I'm big into this gravity thing. Like what makes defenses shift, right? So you like use things like a 1-5 pick and roll with the Knicks.
That's Brunson and Cat. That creates like a defensive problem.
Well, the Indiana Pacers pace, no pun intended there, that creates a defensive problem. Like when they sprint the floor and they're getting the ball over the timeline less than three seconds, 78% of the time.
So they're pushing that thing. And when they do that, it causes defense to overreact.
And all of a sudden now they just get a wide open shot and they don't take their foot off the gas. So the Celtics like to play controlled.
They like to pace the game in the second half. They like to control tempo.
The NAA Pacers, we, being the Boston Celtics, swept them last year, but every game was a dogfight. It was.
I'm worried about that team, and I think they have more experience, and they're flying under the radar, which they're kind of playing with house money. So, you know what I want to ask you, too, because Matt always talks about, you know, part of the Super Bowl team with the Cardinals and like just the preparation for the Super Bowl was like hey treat this as any other week right like you don't get caught up in the hysteria of the Super Bowl and I feel like the NBA is so different because you're getting these teams night in night out like this was the first time ever where I'm never ready to say let's get the regular season over with so we can get to the playoffs not usually because the Knicks aren't going to the playoffs for most of my fandom but this was the first year I'm never ready to say, let's get the regular season over with so we can get to the playoffs.
Not usually because the Knicks aren't going to the playoffs for most of my fandom, but this was the first year I'm like, all right, everything's kind of locked in with seeding. I'm like, we need to get to the playoffs because I'm ready to lock in on one team and one team only in that difference.
I guess we all know what to look for on the court. You've been a part of teams that have gone on finals runs and championship runs what's going on off the court in the locker room at practice when it comes playoff time are you preparing differently and you now know you know what a team needs to have vibes wise off the court that's what i'm kind of getting at here yeah let me just i'll just break it down really simply like if you like me right i'm I'm not a playoff player because I have to play at like a hundred percent and there's nowhere for me to go.
Right. Like my playoff, my regular season preparation will allow me to do well in the regular season.
But then when everybody's prepared for everything, there's like nothing you could do at that point. Right.
So it comes down to just having the best players. Right.
And so you're going into a game where everybody knows what you're going to do.

You're preparing like hours and hours.

You're making adjustments based off of what they've done from the night before.

So there's not like this.

Sometimes in the NBA,

you prepare for a team in like a hotel ballroom for like 15 minutes before you

go and play them in the regular season, but you're going to spend hours.

I mean, I'm talking about hours and hours of film.

You're going to watch your games and how they guard you.

And they're going to cut that up. And let's use my guy, Jason Tatum.

He's going to watch every possession that Orlando guarded him.

Thank you. I mean, I'm talking about hours and hours of film.
You're going to watch your games and how they guard you, and they're going to cut that up. And let's use my guy, Jason Tatum.
He's going to watch every possession that Orlando guarded him and how they guarded him, where the help came from. So it just comes down to the best players making plays.
And if you're not good enough to make those plays, then you're not going to win. So when it comes to the depth of everything, it's not just a normal game because usually the star players continue to get better as the series goes along.
It's the reason

LeBron went to eight straight finals.

He's the brightest guy of our generation

and he just kept learning and learning

and figuring things out. It's the reason he came

back from the Warriors down 3-1

because he just kept figuring things out.

It's the high IQ players

and the really physically gifted ones

and the ones that have super talent that are going to make the biggest difference in the playoffs. Do you think I don't want to beat a dead horse with like the whole Tatum and the Olympics experience.
Right. And we all kind of agreed, like kind of got screwed.
It's such a weird thing, right, that he wasn't playing and Jalen Brown and all that kind of stuff. Do you I don't want to like I know that doesn't have anything to do with the season, the mentality, but you're around this team.
You cover them. You see them.
Superstars show up, and he's going to show up because he's a great player. Has there been a change, and also repeating, is there a change in the mentality that you've seen with these guys? It might mean a little more this year as they approach the playoffs i i don't know what got into tatum but he is completely i i think he's you know and this sounds stupid because like in the margins are so small if i said right if i said tatum is five percent better people could scoff at that but in the nba when you're five a lot that's a whole last right like It's like a massive jump.
Like SGA is like 5% better than he was last year. The MVP.
Nasty, right? So Tatum is just like, his processing of the pick and rolls is double teams. Like he took, I think what happened last year, he didn't play well in the playoffs.
He didn't win conference finals MVP. He didn't win finals MVP.
He didn't play in the Olympics. So it's weird.
You win a championship and no one really celebrated him. And the dude loves to work and he wants to get better.
And he studies the game and he's really mature about his approach. He's always, since he's 19 years old, he's always been really mature in his approach.
But this year is the first year I feel like it's unlocking. When you guys think of Jason Tatum, you probably don't think of him as a pick and roll player.
His pick and roll efficiencies are off the charts. It's like elite.
Yeah. Yeah.
He used to be like an ISO guy, step back guy, mid range jump shot guy. His decision-making is unbelievable this year.
Yeah. It's off the charts.
Right. And you, if I said, you asked it like just a commoner, like name top five pick and roll players out there.
None of them would would say tatum but tatum's numbers would prove that he's a top five pick and roll player so he's made matt he's made a massive jump like yeah you know it i can only equate it to like there was a point in time when you were doing the reads and then one day it just clicked and that's just the way it goes right yeah for him he was doing the reads and it was like sometimes happening and sometimes not happening this year I I want to say like maybe he makes one mistake and the crazy thing about it when he makes the one mistake he's telling like the third uh wing coming off the bench hey man that's my bad I should have read that low man I'm like when you're doing that like immediately that means like you're processing at a high rate you know what you did and you know you're going to be able to make the adjustment moving forward so i just think it could be timing it could just be like after you know year seven and turning it yeah right it could be championship get the you know that championship pressure in boston off your back it could be that or it could just be like over time you just figure out. Or he could be motivated by the way the world treated him after he won a championship.
I love, I love hearing that. He's a superstar that I think doesn't get enough credit for what he does.
You know, for sure. He's absolutely terrifying to me in a playoff series.
Like all my Knicks threads are like, we could be, I, you know, Knicks fans are so optimistic. Everyone's like, we're going to beat Boston.
And I'm like, guys, I don't want to be the reality check here. Like anything could happen, like lace them up.
Who knows? I just don't think my Nick buddies have watched enough Celtics basketball this year because obviously they're trying hard. Do you know who I was? I just was wrong about.
I did not think Joe Mazzullo was going to be this kind of coach. I think, and maybe like you can give some of the credit with the way Tatum's going.
And you look at the development of guys like Pritchard and all that. I like, and Joe Matt, he seems just like a coach who only does that.
Like, I don't know what his personal life is. None of my business.
I just feel like that dude's up at three in the morning scheming for whatever, for the Hornets the next day. Like I, I'm scared of Joe Mazzullzullo as a coach he's a great coach i'll give you uh like he believes in what he believes and it's just a matter of it took some time for him to convince his players and like you know like the 53s right like i i mean we had discussions at the back of the in the back of the plane like i don't understand why you would take this shot right here and he's like to win big

you can never pass up an open shot like so many times if you look at just the playoffs if you ever watch and you see a guy pass up an open look watch what that possession turns to there's a lot of times it turns into a turnover bad shot shot clock violation so so he's like so why would i play differently in game 22 than i do in in you know the nba finals game seven so he's always kept that approach and with that approach like these guys eventually just started buying into it they do not pass up looks and here's the biggest thing if i was a player and i missed like three threes in a row there's i'm probably affected by the fourth right it's just like it's ingrained in our head take it to the basket do something else like impact the game differently like they don't waver from that and it from top to bottom from the 10th man to the number one guy like that that shot is open they take it and over time when you do that you put a lot of pressure on the defense and I think me having the argument with him on the back of the, you should take the ball to the basket. You should get a better look.
I was flat out wrong. Like he's proven to me that if you could change the player's mentality, that if you play the odds, right, if you miss four in a row and you take every shot the same and you're a 38% shooter, the odds are you're about to hit, right? You're about to hit three out of four, right? That's just the way it goes.
So he's convinced me of that. And even though, and he took the time to have that discussion to educate me in the back of the plane.
And I didn't believe him the first year is like, I didn't know if I still liked him as a coach, but I totally understand what his philosophy was that first year. And it's definitely carried true with this like last two years.
Are you shocked at all with the success? We meant you mentioned Redick and just kind of what he's done. Are you shocked with the success that he's had? I know it helps having LeBron and he just had Luka, but the way they're playing defense, especially as just a player that just retired a couple of years ago? Yeah, I can only use this one.
I'm not shocked that JJ's having success. He's a very impressive individual when you talk to him.
He's a good dude, and you think he's really smart and everything. But, dude, how the hell do you trade Anthony Davis, get Luka Doncic, and become like – you go from 18th to 1st in defense? What the fuck is that? That's crazy.
I just said, you know what? I don't know the game. I'm supposed to do this for a living, And I was like, does it make sense? How does that mean? How? What can you point to? Yeah.
It did a few things, right? He used some unique things. He made Luka and LeBron kind of like a middle linebacker, center field, whatever you want to say.
And then he put everybody else and he made him pressure. So there was all these things where Jared Vanderbilt would pressure a guy.
And then when he would drive drive lebron and luca would pick that guy up and then vanderbilt would fly somewhere else so he had like five savages running all over the place right and two guys that were telling everybody what to do and that's the only thing i could point to right and then when lebron went out the defense went down and then like i just assume like they're gonna get back to it but it's amazing it. It's the most incredible thing from a coaching standpoint I've ever seen, like in the middle of the season, I mean, like, but in, in, in all honesty, how's Luka Doncic like a good defender, but he like got it and he made it happen.
Like that's, that's incredible. And I was like, and he did it like overnight.
It wasn't like, Oh, it took a week or anything. Like they, they started guarding right away.
So I give him all the credit in the world. Even in my wildest imagination of J.J.
Redick having the perfect year, I would not expect you to trade AD to get Luka and all of a sudden go to number one in the NBA in defense. Dude, I'm manifesting Lakers-Celtics finals.
You got to have a little just L.A. in your heart left, man.
The sc i like no no i do i um i'm a big fan of all things out there like i'm not like one of those guys like we lost to the lakers in 10 we beat them in eight like i don't care anybody says man i respected that team all the way like all those guys man they were good they were tough i'll tell you the biggest one like everyone kobe was a savage both times but like pal gas it's night and day what he became, and maybe that's the influence of Kobe or whatever it was, but he does not get enough credit for turning into what he was in 08 with Garnett and what he turned into in 2010. But no, I'm a big fan of – I would definitely sign up for LA.
I think Adam Silverwood too.

Do you guys really?

Now, if you're a Laker fan, I'm all for it.

But do you guys really see them beating Oklahoma City if they match up?

Yes.

Did we just beat them by 30 the other night? Matt's irrationally confident.

And then they beat you by 30 the night after that.

You're not worried about their top to bottom.

I got to be honest. I'm not worried, and you know more than me.
I think our path to get to the Western Conference Finals is favorable. Minnesota, obviously...
18-4 in their last 22. It sucks we're going to lose Anthony Edwards or Luca in the first round.
That sucks. Who do, I mean, who do you like in Houston, Golden State? Man, three weeks ago, I liked Golden State.
And then Tremont Green, he tried to fight Sangoon, and he had like 12 points on him. I was like, wait a minute here.
And you know, I'm a big Eme Adoka fan. That's what I was going to say.
Emei identity has broken through. That dude is unwavering in his coaching style.
Like he does not treat any. He coached Tatum and Brown the hardest.
Like I am telling you. I love that.
I don't know this for a fact because I've not experienced it, but it feels like it was like Emei Adoka is part of the Celtics story to getting back on top like for sure like his his demeanor it was part of like their growth now right but um so I'm a big fan of him I just look at that team and like when I just started the whole thing by saying like I'm not really a playoff player like I play really hard I'm really smart whatever but like when the level goes up there's nowhere I can go I kind of feel like that about the houston rockets like when everyone's playing hard like you guys just become average but i think they're an exceptionally hard playing team like it's almost like i don't know how sustainable it is against the warriors but i watched the warriors last night i don't know if it's time stamped or anything but they sometimes they could be like you watch them you're like man that team can win a championship and sometimes you think how think, how are they going to make the playoffs? So I don't think it's a cakewalk. So on that one, I'll pick Warriors only because of logic.
But, dude, the Rockets are savages. So the other puzzling thing to me before we start to wrap up and let you go is, you know, we're talking a lot about coaches.
I agree. Ime, like, that was the perfect hire for the Rockets, like such a young team of a bunch of they're basically like angry hungry wolverines you know just running around but now we also have the best player in the world or arguably yokich and all the stuff that went down with now two coaches and who knows if memphis ends up getting in by the time this airs have i've never seen in all my years of just watching as a fan i've never seen a coach of the best player in the world on a good team who just won the championship two years ago fired.
Have you ever even heard of anything like that? And what are you thinking as a player? I just don't, that was shocking to me. I don't know if you were shocked by that.
But we all can, we all can, I'm sure Matt and Jerry, like we all can identify dysfunction. Sure.
I think the NBA is just sick of it. of it like yeah screw screw like just so much money and at stake screw coaches and gms arguing over stupid shit right what are we doing what are we doing hold on yeah let's be honest man let's be honest like i know like we're all living a good life and everything like that like do we really got to be childish about this shit like yo just get along they're arguing over the eighth man you got nicole yokich on your team you're arguing over the eighth man like don't just pick yokich going like tell these guys to shut the fuck up so you can play exactly like what are we doing right now like like i get it man it's nba this ego involved all that stuff but come on man i why at this in time, you have a coach and a GM not talking.
If I'm an owner, I'll be like, fuck it. You guys are both gone.
I don't care. I tell you what, dysfunction, I mean, I know in the past it used to be fine.
I guess Jerry Krause and Phil Jackson never talked or whatever, whatever. Like 2024, 2025, no more dysfunction in sport, man.
Let's get on the same thing. Well, we see everything now too.
You know, it's not like you could really keep anything behind closed doors with social media and every player now has a podcast and stuff like that. I wanted to ask you this too.
Do you think if you are currently a player now in your third year or whatever in the same role do you think you would have been a part of the content creation as a first of all you would have been awesome if I would have made it well no what I'm saying is like if social media and YouTube were around when you were playing like do you think you would in your off season be like you know I'm gonna launch a pod with Mike Miller or some shit? I don't know. I don't know if I would have made it nowadays.
I'm just being honest. I know that everyone loves to like, if you would have played now, you would have shot more threes.
It's like, no, I actually played because there was like eight guys that could shoot the three. So I was a knight.
So great. I worked out.
But I'm not sure what I would have done and how I would have played it. But if I did, I would have done some fun stuff probably.
I didn't start doing a lot of that stuff until I got done. Most athletes are smart asses by nature.
And they kind of move. And then once they kind of get done, they don't give a F anymore.
And just like start doing stuff like that so um i do regret

i do 1000 regret not embracing like being the 12th man off the bench as a player in boston no i should have totally embraced that in chicago it was a blast man i like i would do commercials like you know me i'm the guy that comes in when we won the game. But I didn't, I wish I would have embraced it early.
I would have like totally ran with that. That would have been the one thing because you know, there were times in Boston I would start and playing time and rotational minutes and stuff.
But I thought it was so disrespectful. I totally would have embraced that.
That would have been the one thing that I would have gone with

and still been professional along the way.

But I think I could have really meld that.

Just going back to USC, what's your best memory?

Because you're on some good basketball teams.

And what's your best story or memory from the USC days?

Yeah.

You know, it wasn't – I guess it started to change.

No, it was kind of still like not that nice when you were there, right? it's freaking amazing. Yeah.
Yeah. All right.
I'll tell one story. This is kind of crazy.
I remember I would be the guy that had to do all the fundraising for the Galen Center. If you guys see where they play now, I probably raised $100 million of that.
They weren't sending anybody else. were sending me right so there was that and then all the recruiting trips and taking the recruits out and like oh yeah you know it's funny how you have to like so what do you want to get into it's always like like yeah you know like when mom and dad are there they're doing prayer before the meal like.
Like, yo, we want to get wild. Where are we going? Take me out.
Take me to high. Who was the biggest? All right.
So what do you want to do today? You know? All right. Well, I'm going to go and they'll tell the parents, we're going to go look at the dorms.
And then dude's like, no, we're wilding out. Right.
So I did that. That was a fun, like all the recruiting stuff was good.
Um, the one thing I don't know if it if it changed because at the time, the football team wasn't very good. You guys were there.
Even like Carson Palmer's there, they got really good when Carroll came and you guys were good. But it felt like the football players back in the day, man, they kind of like mad-dogged you.
Like, what are you doing here? You're the basketball team. You're the football team.
So I don't know if it got better. Like when you guys when you guys were good everything is all good but at the time we were like the talk of the school and even though it's a football school it's all the way football yeah but you guys were rocking dude yeah and the team wasn't the football team wasn't doing very well so i remember going to parties and feeling like like wrecker scratching the basketball players are here so that was the The one thing i wish um like this going through it like athletes should all stick together you know what i mean so that was the one thing that i felt like could have been i i we i i was close with because i was i you left and i was i was fresh i was a freshman i think when it was still clancy was still there oh so you were a freshman person palmer yeah so i backed up carson for two years so but we didn't overlap.
I think you it was still Clancy was still there. Oh, so you were a freshman when Carson Palmer was his senior.
Yeah, so I backed up Carson for two years. But we didn't overlap.
I think you left right when I came in. But I was a part of it.
I was there with Nick Young and Gabe Pruitt. We had a couple good teams.
I actually, this is a true story, my senior year I was done, so I was getting ready for the draft and combine. And that's when OJ Mayo was coming in.

And he was a one and done.

Everybody knew it.

And I don't know where OJ came.

I don't know where he was from.

But Virginia?

I was on a golf cart.

It was me.

Because they asked me.

They're like, hey, it was Tim Floyd.

I love Tim Floyd.

He got in trouble for doing all that shit.

But I love Tim Floyd.

And so they asked me like, hey, OJ Mayo's on campus.

Will you like, I don't know, talk to him, whatever. So I was on a golf cart.
It was me, OJ Mayo, OJ's dad and whoever's driving. And they were just asking me, I said, bro, I said, dude, you're coming to LA for one year.
You're going to be a fucking God here. Just come.
And I think they went to the tournament. So I'd like to say that I did somewhat help recruit OJ Mayo.
I'm sure there were some other things that went down to get them there. But we were always tight with the hoops, though.
So that culture shifted for sure. Those guys, like the Craven twins were my boys.
We had some good teams. I was a big fan of those guys.
I always ask this question. I tell you what, I don't know what it was like for you, but man, I had a job and I got like paid

a thousand bucks. Dude, I thought I was the richest dude in the world.
Can you imagine,

can you imagine having a million dollars and going to college? What is that? Is it like,

like if you have a million dollars in college, you might as well be Jeff Bezos to be honest with you.

To just driving down, driving down the row and your new whip.

I hear now the football players got Lambos, Lambos.

Oh, it's crazy.

What is going on here?

I think the average, I think for college hoops,

I think it's like 300,000 to 500,000 is the level bar

of what it's going to take to pry an average player, like a 12-point-a-game guy away. Yeah.
And that's the low. Obviously, some of the higher profile.
That's nuts. Could you imagine how much Slausons we would have went to? Oh, my gosh.
Or how about just being like a regular dude and we show up pockets back? That dude has no chance oh dude can you imagine just walking in and be like yo everybody first one's on me i can't even imagine because when we were there we're like i got 15 bucks you got 15 bucks left on your card. Wasn't there like dollar beers on Tuesday?

Can you imagine what

that is like?

Okay, last one, dude.

I try to explain

Jerry like the 9-0.

I lived in 20 years,

LA. I've been kicked out of

the 9-0. My boy was the

bouncer. Walking in with the

floor, walking back with the floor like three inches of beer, just walking through a fucking just puddle of beer. Going home somewhere.
It can't exist anymore, does it? Oh, yeah, it does. Oh, my gosh.
I would have thought torn down condos. Well, they renovated it.
It's same size, but it's nicer. I mean, I haven't been in a decade, but they renovated it a long time ago.
I feel like you guys should go grab everybody. If you're both in LA at the same time, you guys need to meet up for a beer.
Hell yeah. We're social.
If Celtics do it, we're going. We're definitely going.
That would be amazing. That would be so great, man.
You're the best, dude. Yeah, thank you, man.
And, you know, I don't even want to say good luck to the Celtics.

I don't think they need it.

And also, too, I have to say you're awesome calling the games.

I like when guys call the games and they, you know,

not that they're, like, taking shots.

You call it like it is.

You just want me a homer, dude.

It's all right.

No, no, no, no, no.

I don't think you're a full homer.

I am a homer.

I'm a homer.

You are, but it's funny.

I think you're not full homer. And I don't think you're full.
homer. I am a homer.
I'm a homer. You are, but.
I think you're not full homer.

And I don't think you're full.

By the way, I watch Nick games.

It's Breen and Clyde Frazier.

Like, there's no negative Nick's talk on the Nick's broadcast.

Yeah.

So, no, I think you do a great job calling the games.

And that's got to be a lot of fun walking around Boston calling the games.

Oh, yeah.

I don't pay for much.

There and the 9-0, too.

You ain't going to pay for a beer over there.

Oh, yeah.

We're going.

So, Lakers-Celtics, we'll run it back and we'll go get a drink.

Thank you, man. All right, guys.
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That was awesome. The white Mamba gotta love scowl.
It's time now for a flavor of the week presented by Wendy's clock in for sweet treat time with Wendy's classic frosty. Get one now, Matt, maybe you make a little stop for breakfast for the boys get some frosties frosty's calling my name later that's for sure boys are getting whatever the hell they want flavor of the week even though it was last sunday right so a few days removed everybody got their rory masters takes off you watched more golf than you probably in a really long time.
Unbelievable ending. It was.
And it kind of brought up more so like, so Rory's the flavor of the week, but it's the question now. I feel like the whole country, if not most of the golf world, was rooting for Rory to win, whether you were a Rory fan or not, or a golf fan or not.
Can you think of of some other times and I have some names here for you where everyone seemed to be so clearly rooting for the same outcome and like where Rory stacks in that list which I think he's almost number one at this point even though he's won majors he's never won the masters which is its own thing yeah well first of all, it was unbelievable for golf golf we all know that and and to miss the putt for par on 18 which like i don't want to say i could have made it but like i feel like i could make that you know like that it's more of a make than a miss for him that's like making a layup right and uh and so i was like i my heart sank because i was like damn you know part of me was rooting a little bit for Justin Rose. Well, he was on fire.
He was on fire. But yeah, I think to answer your question, guys that we're rooting for, and this one's a little bit, you're going to understand why.
I was thinking about this in football, and you have guys like Josh Allen that go against Mahomes. You kind of root for like one super talented,

but like good guys, like good guys, good,

like do everything right on the field,

do everything right off the field.

I'm rooting for Jared Goff, dude.

Goff.

I was thinking about this.

I'm thinking like, I'm thinking of NBA,

like, you know, Chris Paul,

like I'm just not sure he's ever going to win one.

You root for some of the guys that never won one.

Obviously they're retired.

I think with football, you know, Jared Goff, one, he's one of the greatest dudes out there. Just an all-around great dude.
Led LA to a Super Bowl. Didn't play particularly great in that game.
Lost. Got shipped out to Detroit after a Super Bowl.
And he was an afterthought. They were going to move on from him quickly.
The Rams go and win a Super Bowl with Stafford, which makes Goff look even worse, even though Goff had a great career in LA. And now he has Detroit Lions relevant for the first time in God knows how long.
And they've been really, really close the last couple of years, but they've fallen short. And not necessarily on him.
It's just one of those guys that you're like, I'm not sure if he's ever going to win a Superbowl because it's just so hard to win a Superbowl, but man, I'm rooting for good guys who do it the right way. Um, and who, and who have a shot.
And I think he's got a shot. So, um, it was hard for me to think about hockey and all these other sports, but like, there's a lot of quarterbacks in the league that you kind of root for.
Golf is one of them for me. So in some of those other player athletes that you would be rooting for to do the thing, you go way back.
A lot of people like Clyde Drexler, happy when he won, Jason Kidd. Then you get into KG, Kevin Garnett, anything is possible.
Dirk was a pretty, you know, I wasn't a big Mavericks fan, but I was super happy for him. Jerry West, obviously, back in the day.
Football-wise, Elway, you know, Elway went a very long time without getting one, and he kind of had that right. And then most recently, Stafford and Saquon.
Saquon, you know, and I'm a Giants fan. Yeah, Saquon, but Saquon's only been playing for like four years.
But he's a running back, so he might only play for eight. You know, he might only be in his prime for seven or eight.
He might not get that many seasons. So then when you start thinking of the next guy, I like your golf call.
Obviously, in football, we'll all be looking at Josh Allen and Lamar too. Of course.
I think you can't say Aaron Judge in baseball because no one feels bad for any Yankee ever. That's just not a thing.
No one's going to be like, oh, I'm so happy for the Yankees and Aaron Judge. That's not a thing.
I got one for basketball and it's going to involve the team you love that we got some time. We got years because the dude's only 25.
Tell me Luca. Tell me Luca.
If we're having this conversation in three years, if Luca and LeBron and the Lakers don't win the title in three years, then you start to do every media head will do the, when's Luca going to get his championship is defining moment. You're right now, but I think he's just, I just don't think it's going to happen.
It's also just how like you're the arguably the best player in the world, right? You're top three, top four, wherever you look at it, you just led your team to an NBA finals finals and how he was done so dirty the way he was done right we don't need to rehash it and then when they go back to dallas what a couple weeks ago just the emotional tribute and he's bawling the whole time like like you just like that's the hard part about sport man like i've been there like you know when when you're you're and again i'm not luca and i never was but when're, when you're a part of a city and you're helping there and then all of a sudden you're just like, peace, you're out. And, and you're Luca Doncic.
Yeah. Like you're just rooting for the dude.
He's likable outside of like, I know he complains a lot about calls and stuff, but like, he's a likable dude. I think, feel like every teammate loves him.
Who's played with them. And you're right.
He's, he's a superstar that I hope wins a championship, and was rooting for him in dallas man i was like yeah he's must see tv he's fun to watch so if the trade doesn't happen in if three years if luca doesn't win a ring it still would be the same conversation like i feel i feel like expect him to win many oh for sure and i feel like if he like i found myself rooting for him i'm sure you did too

last year in the finals if if he stays on dallas and my lakers aren't in it like that's the team i would say he's like my favorite player but that's the team i'm rooting for you're pulling for you're happy on their run and i like kyrie like i like those guys so uh i'm happy he's a laker and yeah i hope i hope uh it's just hard dude it's hard to win championships man. It's just, it takes a lot of things to happen and go right for you to win a title.
So hopefully he gets one. Shout outs to Wendy's.
I actually think I am going to get a Frosty for that 6 p.m. Knicks playoff game.
I just had that vision of me on the couch with a Wendy's, with a Frosty, just watching the game with my kid. We might do it.
Really quick on, because you're a golf lover and i'm a and i'm a i'm a like watching rory and we don't have to go too deep in this but watching the emotion and like dude winning the fucking masters bro like the way he did and especially after giving it up like you I think we all thought he was just,

gosh, he's going to choke this away.

Dude, this poor guy.

He's going to choke this away.

And he, dude, he hits his swings.

Because all he has to do on 18 is hit the green.

I'm not saying it's an easy shot,

but for Rory McIlroy to just,

the drive is the hardest thing when you get to 18

and you have a lead, right?

That's the thing where things could go wrong.

You could cost yourself a shot with the drive.

Once you hit the fairway, like he did,

to be where he is, it's like, look,

Even if... to 18 and you have a lead, right? That's the thing where things could go wrong.
You could cost yourself a shot with the drive. Once you hit the fairway, like you did to be where he is, it's like, look, even if you put it to 40 feet, 30 feet, I know Augusta is not the easiest place to two putt, but just, you got to get it on the green.
Then he puts it in the bunker and then he still hits a great shot. He played all the hits.
It was the perfect rollercoaster ride. I actually, I didn't turn it off, but I was solo with the boys and I dipped out with them to get them outside doing stuff.
I didn't want them to watch TV all day when I'm watching the Masters. Thinking Rory had it well in hand, the four shot lead.
I'm like, I'll come back and I'll power through and watch him win and get his green jacket. And then the texts start coming in.
Greenfield, Max Greenfield, everyone's texts. Are you watching this? And I went, son of a bitch, he blew it.
I knew it. The minute I saw- Dude, he double bogeyed one.
That was when it was like, so, and also on the playoff hole, because Justin Rose was playing better than anybody. He was on fire.
Even Justin Rose's approach shot, his second shot was 10 feet from the pin. Yes, yes.
And then, or 11 feet. So that's a, you know, he missed the birdie, but that's a, that's a makeable putt for him.
Rory just puts it within five feet. Like that, that, that, it was unbelievable.
I, it was, I was, it was, we've heard it all week, but it was so great for golf, the buildup Bryson being in the finals, obviously he didn't play his best, but then Justin Rose coming out of nowhere. Um, I just wonder if he goes on a run now, like the whole proverbial monkey off the back, right? And Goff is so mental as we've seen with his round.
Like I wonder now, does this set up for Rory? I think it's his fifth major. Like does this set up now for him to just have a monster? He already won the players, which is a huge tournament in its own.
So does this now set up for him to go on a crazy run? We'll see. All right.
I don't know, man. Shout out.
By the way, shout out. Justin Thomas, our boy.
I know. Finished strong.
I think he finished his back nine on Sunday where he was like minus three. Chipped in on 18, I think, to finish it off.
He never quite got it going. Yeah, it going yeah it's tough man it's tough although he did have a moment in round two where he eagled whatever it was two or three when he chipped you texted me i think he eagled one or two i think it was two and then he had like a five foot birdie putt to go three under when rose was leading at seven that would have put him right in the mix it's just golf is hard man we always love this is a jt show that we love him all right should we do a little mailbag i took a sneak peek of this one and i think this is one that you are very uh a person i would if i was scrolling on social media i would stop to hear your take on this do you want to tee it up i got you all right so will in tennessee what's up guys i appreciate your perspective on pretty much everything so i really need your help Thanks, Will.
I really need your help with how to feel about my vols right now. Are QB just up and left because of an NIL dispute? Should we have just given him what he wanted or did the school handle this the right way? This has been the number one discussion and I'll try to keep this as short as possible, but there's so many nuances and layers to this whole thing that we're dealing with in NIL.
And a lot of it to answer the question, I think a lot of it, it doesn't even fall on the school

or the player falls on the NCAA and the lack of a governing body that has created a system that

allows us to have, it's just, it's, it's a shame on them. And we've all know that everybody knows

that. Um, and college athletics needs a commissioner.
They need somebody to put rules in place.

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Um, and college athletics needs a commissioner. They need somebody to put rules in place.
That's, that's one thing. So that's a, this is a result of that.
I, I, this one's interesting to me because I'm a dad of a kid who's getting recruited. I'm about to sit in meetings and, and get pitched NIL dollars to my son over the next eight months, which is really going to happen.
So there's this battle of like, what's best for my son or what's best for his future, short-term gain versus your long-term future, all of these things, right? And this situation makes me sad because from a player's perspective, Jerry, and just from that side, being in the locker room and especially being a quarterback, I hate that these types of situations may or may not jeopardize someone's future and jeopardize the way we view them, the perception of them, whether they're in the locker, especially at the next level, because a lot of this stuff surrounding Nico and Tennessee, and I, and I, I'm not, I'm not even blaming the kid. Like I don't really think he's at fault at all.
Um, it just, it just is, it just makes it more challenging and difficult when NFL teams and that locker room at the next level, which is no joke, those are grown men. And you have all of this perception and the holdout and this and that,

and you're chasing this.

I would just caution players

to stop chasing this short-term,

this isn't even low-hanging fruit

because he's obviously getting paid

a lot more money than a lot,

but the short-term gain

that possibly jeopardizes your long-term future. And your future and goals to play in the NFL and make millions and millions of dollars.
That's one thing. I just, you are, your value is what a school will pay you or what a work will pay you.
I get that. And I just worry about this situation that sometimes the grass isn't always greener.
And when you have representation and people that may or may not have your best interest, maybe they think you do, but they don't, things like this happen. And again, I think to answer the question, I don't necessarily think he probably outperformed his contract.
You know what I mean? It's not a knock on him. I think you could look at it from Tennessee and say, Hey, like we're not going to pay the 4 million or whatever it is, um, that they're asking for because we don't think you're worth that.
And that's fair because that's the world we live in. And if he, if they think he's worth that and they're going to go chase it somewhere else, like there might be a reality check coming.
So, uh, that's the, that's the nature of this business, man. That's the part I don't like.
But at some point, I think these young men, they're not kids anymore. These young men, we need to figure this out and they need to have better people around them.
I don't know what the equivalent would be in acting and all that, or if you're coming up in the world and maybe these young TV stars that make all this money and then all of a sudden,'s like, you know, you get you see all this, the horror stories like they take this or they get advantage, take advantage of this and these networks or these whatever. It's just it's it's the world we live in, man.
And you just you hate to see it. And I root for all the kids.
I root for them getting paid. I really do.
But at some point, like you have to look at the big picture. You have to.
And a lot of these kids just don't. You know, you just made me think of something too.
Because part of my question almost is like, now how is this also so public? Because that's where I think we're going to get into some trouble too. And I think that's just the way it is with sports and with athletes.
We discuss professional athletes contracts all the time. With acting, you could maybe only think of a handful of times where there's been big contract disputes, whatever it was, the cast of friends negotiating together and getting a million.
Hollywood's always done a good job of keeping the monetary value of people's contracts out. Like you really don't know how much people are getting paid in TV and on screen.
Athletes and sports, we've always, cause it's, it's, it's almost like a content thing for media to discuss their contract. Now, when you start doing it in an unregulated marketplace that is NIL right now, and it's, you could see how the tide could turn on a young person or a parent or whatever, where now everyone's talking about it and they're in the limelight for something that has nothing to do with where their career is ultimately trying to go.
I'm all for players getting paid, for sure. And again, I'm a father to a son who's getting recruited.
So I'm in it. But I also cover college football.
I also know schools, ADs, coaches. I know agents.
I know everybody in this business, and I hear everything. I would like to think to myself that, hey, son, call.
I always tell them this all the time. I said, hey, buddy, this is my opinion opinion.
Doesn't mean it's right or wrong. This is just what I think.
And this is just, these are the people that I can talk to. And this is how we can all make an educated guess or an educated decision on what's best for your future, whatever that is.
Right. And that's how I always say them.
I never come at them and say, well, you have to do this because this is the only way. Now I might think some of these are the only way because I've seen it play out a million times, but I never want like, and if I don't know something, Jerry, and I'm sure like you're, you might be, if I don't know something, I will go ask somebody who's an expert in that, or I will go at, and I do that now.
And so like, when you see a lot of people who just are kind of taking control and they think they know everything and what's best. And like, that's not always the case.
Like sometimes you need to take a step back. Like I know the type of player my kid is.
I know his personality. I know what motivates him.
I know the things that he struggles in. I know all of those things.
So then how can we build a team around somebody that we can get the best out of that every opportunity? And now it has to do with financial, like now it has to do with money and that's okay. Right.
Educate. It's, it's, it's a lot, man.
And again, it's, it's unfortunate that both sides are going through this, but at the end of the day, like you're, you're, these are, these are grown people helping making these decisions and they're not always the right ones. And I hope it all works out.
I really do. I hope everybody, I hope, I hope Nico finds a home and balls out and Tennessee moves on all those things.
But man, it's just, uh, you see, I mean, thousands of kids enter the portal and thousands stay in the portal and cause they're getting bad, bad advice. Yeah.
It's, I never thought I would live long enough to see this day where we're discussing, you know, opt outs in college football. Like, you know, if you told me five, 10, five ten eight ten years ago that's going to be a big discussion on a podcast that you're going to have with matt leinart i'd be like yeah all right sure that's going to happen so yeah i'm going to be watching again yeah again at the end of the day you hope it all you hope it all works out and i i don't even have anything to offer and i I wonder.
Like I, my kids are not probably going to be getting NIL deals. And fortunately, like I know your kids are going to be, your kids are going to be on the other side.
They're going to be GMs or. Well, that's what I mean.
Like, I almost wonder, like, what do you say to the young man or woman or whoever that doesn't have anyone to really guide them? It's almost like, but there, that's the thing where I think it becomes tricky. You're a good guy.
You want the best for your son and you would probably help another young athlete if they came to you for advice. Some people maybe don't have that outlet.
I understand that. It goes back to when we had Kurt Warner on and all these young quarterbacks, they don't take advice.
They don't take advice from, you know, hall of famers like that are just there. And again, I get it.
Like, like, do I want to go call? Maybe it might help. And maybe it's just a phone call.
And, and I, and I, and I understand that because a lot of like all of these young men and women, right. All sports, they come from all different areas.
Like, like whether it's like, you know financially or they come whatever it doesn't matter it's hard to keep the bad advice away maybe but it's hard to keep the bad advice away but also like i don't know i just feel like there's there's so many outlets now through social media you're right you could you could message anybody like you could message you're right i again, you have to find people you can trust, but there, but there are, there's so much access out there to people and good people that, you know, a player could reach out to a coach, a former, like I think of like, I think of Urban Meyer. Even what Josie's doing, like in speaking in Oklahoma, there's people everywhere.
Yeah. Yeah.
Or just people who are like, Hey, here, I can guide you to these. And you do what you want, but at least you have a bigger circle around you that can at least help give you advice or give your family members advice.
Again, I know it's not that easy, but we do live in a world where there's a lot more access to do that. It's easier, there's more access.
Well, good question from Will. I'm glad we did this because I was going to ask you one way or another.
I'm glad someone put that in the mailbag. So I think that's a good way to close.
I'm going to be getting ready. To me, it felt like a very long time from the Super Bowl to NBA playoffs.
Normally, I'm a basketball nerd. I even struggled this regular season to lock in.
I loved all the trade stuff. I didn't even lock in the way I normally do.
Now it's time to lock the fuck in. I was going to say your energy level is fucking high.
Let's go. It's time.
You have not seen. You saw a little psycho, Jerry, last year.
You're going to see a whole different psycho this year because the ceiling is high. So, yeah, man.
Thanks again to the White Mamba for joining us. We'll be back next week.
I mean, there'll be NBA playoff games in the... By the wait.
Next week. We're going to the draft.
Come on, bro. Stop.
Who cares about the NBA? We're going to the NFL draft. We're going to be in Green Bay, Wisconsin next week with throwbacks, with triple option, with our guys with Mark and Rob and Urban.
Giants are doing... They're talking to Shador.
It's so... The Giants are going to be the team.
And I'm saying this because it's my favorite team. They're going to change the whole draft.
By the way, Shador will be there at three, and so will Abdul Carter. They will have their pick of who they want.
Travis Hunter's going too, guaranteed. Oh my God.
So you're either going, you're going to have a room with Russ, with Russ, Jameis, and Shador Sanders, or you're going gonna have a premier pass rusher and maybe win eight or nine games and be right back in the same spot next year I'm just gonna try not to freak out I can't wait I'm excited I'm excited to see I'm excited to see what the Giants do because that they hold like you said they hold that they hold the big chess piece I think as far as they're the team do they do they Shador? A lot of people think Shador might fall a little bit. You know, Abdul-Carter is the safe pick and a talent there.
And that's who the Patriots are probably praying for that the Giants don't take. So they're going to impact everything.
Or maybe smokescreens, and they say they're going to take Abdul-Carter, and the Patriots flip-flop that, and then Giants pick four.

I don't know.

There's going to be some shit that goes down,

and we're going to be there, dude.

Let's go!