205: Please Say Psych! Ft. Jemma Sbeg

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The legend of DeSerono begins. Okay, I think we're rolling on everything.

Speaker 1 I'm so excited to have you.

Speaker 2 I'm so excited to be here. Also, like the vibes were high.
We walked in. I was laying on the couch.
We were chatting.

Speaker 1 I love this. I know I'm still doing my makeup as Gemma walks in.
I'm like, I'm so sorry. It's raining in LA and the world is falling apart.
We just don't know how to handle rain here.

Speaker 1 You really don't.

Speaker 2 It's a bit embarrassing for you guys.

Speaker 1 It is.

Speaker 1 And then we have the rain and then we have the mudslides and the earthquakes and it's just i was overwhelmed by that whole discussion of being like i thought this was like the sunshine state but it's like the natural disaster state and who when did that become a thing i know like two of the most popular places to live california and florida we get really hit with the weather Really?

Speaker 2 You should have rethought that when you were.

Speaker 1 I'm telling you, Minnesota is underrated, guys. I'll keep telling you all, everyone, you know, it's going to be a climate refuge, Minnesota.

Speaker 2 Don't let them know.

Speaker 1 Now you're going to give it all away.

Speaker 1 I've got my house there. I'm fine.
So everyone, there's enough houses to go around. Come on, guys.
But where are you coming from?

Speaker 2 All the way from Sydney, Australia.

Speaker 1 From Down Under.

Speaker 2 From Down Under, Thunder, Down Under. That's not even an Australian accent.
I have an Australian accent. Why did I do that in a British accent?

Speaker 1 I don't know, but I really liked it.

Speaker 2 I guess I'm faking both.

Speaker 2 I went out with some friends last night and they were all showing me photos from when they went to Thunder Down Under.

Speaker 1 The choice. Yeah, in Vegas.
And I was like... Always wanted to go.

Speaker 2 I was like, those men aren't Australian. Really? Well, I was like, I've never seen an Australian man that looks like that before.

Speaker 2 Like, they have like beach muscles, like surfing muscles, not like steroid muscles.

Speaker 2 But I was like, I'm still down to give it a go.

Speaker 1 Always down to try something once. Yeah, why not? I love it.
Oh my gosh. I'm so excited for today.
I've been binging your content and I have like this newfound sense of self.

Speaker 1 I just like, I'm obsessed. I actually talked about one of your podcasts the other day on this show.
And I was like, there's a study and I'm probably butchering it.

Speaker 1 But, you know, Gemma talked about it. And it was like men and women who are friends and they went in together and the women had different answers than the men.

Speaker 2 And like, yes, the male friendship study.

Speaker 2 Do you want me to tell the listeners? Yeah, because I butchered it. Okay, so basically

Speaker 2 I did this episode on the psychology of male-female friendships because everyone has been like, I get it a lot.

Speaker 2 People in the 20s being like, can i be friends with someone of the opposite sex who is like heterosexual and i was like i need to research this and i found this like incredulous study where basically they put they invited 88 pairs of heterosexual friends opposite sex so men and women who were friends they said bring in your male friend bring in your female friend then they separated them they put them in two separate rooms And they were like, all your answers are completely anonymous.

Speaker 2 We're not going to tell anyone. Now you tell us, are you attracted to the friend that you brought with you today

Speaker 2 makes you so nervous i know and then they said a follow-up question and do you think that they they like you back and the women were like you know what 50 50 maybe maybe like some of them were attracted some of them weren't but most of the ones who were like they're i'm attracted to them were like they're not attracted to me so you know i'm not interested in dating them but the men were like almost the majority were like yeah i'm attracted to her and she's totally attracted to me like i would go there yeah and it was was this huge thing where I was like, yeah, I don't think men and women, well, I do think men and women can be friends, but not if there's sexual attraction.

Speaker 2 Yeah. But this study is showing that there's just like such this underlying sense of like romantic attraction, especially in your 20s.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 I mean maybe we might have a story or two that gets into that today, but something else I came across is like sometimes men perceive like kindness as flirting, even in just like professional settings.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 And it was really interesting. I don't know if that person had a study that they were talking about, but I was like, that's an interesting thought.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And like emotional safety, because women are like, I think just naturally, we've been conditioned to be such like homes to everyone's emotions around us.

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 2 So men might interpret that as like, wow, they love me. It's like, no, I'm just being a nice person.

Speaker 1 I'm just being nice. Yeah.
I was trying to be nice.

Speaker 2 And they're like, let's fuck.

Speaker 1 I really, I've really had to think about this lately. I'm like, dude, I'm like, does he think I'm flirting with him? Because he's kind of flirting back and I was just being nice.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 1 It's really, it's really interesting. But of, of course, as usual, I've done a terrible job introducing my guests today.
I've said it, but it's Gemma Speg.

Speaker 1 Psychology of Your 20s is your podcast.

Speaker 2 The psychology of your 20s and mantra.

Speaker 1 And as you can tell, the girl's got the studies. She's got the facts.
Do you have a psychology degree or like, how did you get into this? I sure do.

Speaker 2 I've got a psychology degree, and then I also,

Speaker 2 not many people know this. I also have like economics and like politics degree.

Speaker 1 degree. Let's go.

Speaker 2 So I can do I can do some math on the fly.

Speaker 1 Not really.

Speaker 2 But I went to unifor it. I did like a specialization as well.
So I went on and did more on like cognitive neuroscience. And then I worked in psychology and mental health for a while.

Speaker 2 And also when I was doing the podcast, it's kind of a bit. heavy but I worked in child maltreatment and

Speaker 2 domestic violence. So not that I'm just going to, I always say it and I'm like, let's just dampen the room.

Speaker 1 I mean, we come across a lot of stories that relate to that.

Speaker 1 And it's a tough field, but it's like, you're helping so many people. And it was amazing.

Speaker 2 It was so incredibly rewarding. Yeah.
But it's also incredibly soul-crushing. So people who are still doing it and who like genuine heroes, like the emotional labor of those

Speaker 2 professions and like the, the amount that they give, this has just turned into like a, no, I mean, like, I'm so grateful for you and for you and for you. But yeah, that's what I used to do.

Speaker 1 Oh, that's amazing. You have like the most well-rounded background I think I've ever come across.
I'm like, the psychology, the polit, polit,

Speaker 1 I cannot talk today, the politics, the economics. I'm like, there's so much like, it's like you can make a Venn diagram with all of those things and like the psychology of the Paul.

Speaker 2 It's just, I'm blown away. It's really helped.
Do you know what I mean? And I also went to a music high school because I wanted to be a trombone. I wanted to be a trombone player.

Speaker 1 Trombone? That's so cool.

Speaker 2 Did I get bullied in high school?

Speaker 1 Yes. I mean, it wasn't a tuba, though.
No. Trombones are cool.

Speaker 1 I thought it was cool. I like a trombone.
I feel like trombones and I think saxophones are, they're more appreciated than the trombone, but trombones and French horns are really underappreciated.

Speaker 2 You don't know how hard it is as well. You've got to be really fit to play a tromboneer, right?

Speaker 1 I played a clarinet for a season and it was tough.

Speaker 2 Did you get like always get the splinters?

Speaker 1 Yeah, you had to suck on your reed before to get it ready.

Speaker 2 And, like, guys, it's going to sound gross, but the amount of saliva that comes with those kinds of instruments is nasty. That's not sexy.

Speaker 2 Like, when you're like a 13-year-old girl and you're like, no,

Speaker 1 I joined a band to play the flute and be really cute. And then he goes, no, bitch, you're going to play the clarinet.
I was like, I guess.

Speaker 1 It didn't last long. That's all right.
Oh, man. Okay.
Well, you are going to be perfect for our theme today.

Speaker 1 I started out by looking for stories that were like, damn, 20s are rough because you know all about the psychology of your 20s. So I was like, okay, Gemma's going to know that.

Speaker 1 And it kind of turned into like, please say psych. Like, you, you've got to be kidding.
Like this, what, what?

Speaker 1 Like, it's just so goofy. And

Speaker 1 there's, again, kind of a Venn diagram between those two themes that I have, but they're going to be some good stories for you today.

Speaker 2 Psych. Psych.

Speaker 1 They're actually terrible.

Speaker 1 Some people might think so. We'll see.
We'll see what their takes are. I'm excited.
Okay, let's dive in.

Speaker 1 Okay, up first for us. This is coming from Am I the Asshole? It is 12 days old, titled, Am I the Asshole for Throwing Out a Piece of Art My Boyfriend Ruined?

Speaker 1 Two years ago, I saw an original watercolor piece that I liked, and I contacted the artist and I bought it.

Speaker 1 When the piece arrived, I sought a frame for it, but I hadn't been able to find a frame for that that size every time I went to the store.

Speaker 1 They were all too big or too small, so I just kept the piece in an envelope in my desk. I would sometimes look at it, remember I had to find a frame for it, but would later forget again.

Speaker 1 Work, family, and life leaves little time to devote to thinking about a frame for a painting, and I don't have any framing businesses near me, so that wasn't an option either.

Speaker 1 Today, my boyfriend is dusting and comes out of the office showing me the painting on a spare frame he had been using for something else. I ask him if that frame is 9x12.

Speaker 1 He tells me it's 8 by 10, that he had to cut a piece of the artwork to make it fit.

Speaker 1 When I look at it, the piece went from a centralized composition to having the composition addented to the left side because he cut all the whole inch on the one side to save the artist's signature, which was on the extreme opposite end.

Speaker 1 For reference, imagine if you cut the Mona Lisa to the point where her head is no longer the center.

Speaker 1 When he notices I'm perplexed, he nonchalantly tells me that the painting was in an envelope anyways, and it's better that it's out so we can see it.

Speaker 1 I get mad because this is not the first time he has taken something of mine and given it away, offered it to someone, or just not asked and done whatever he wants with it.

Speaker 1 His mother does the same thing with his things at her house. In their family, if you're not using something, anyone can do with it as they please.

Speaker 1 I explained to him, in my family, you don't do anything with other people's stuff.

Speaker 1 I have the tendency to ruminate on thoughts, so I try not to engage negative emotions because then I just can't let go of them and I cycle and I cycle through them and it makes my life miserable.

Speaker 1 And I have to devote a lot of energy to get me back to normal. Every time I looked at the framed painting, I felt a new wave of sadness, anger, and frustration ripple over me.

Speaker 1 So I took the frame down, took the painting out of it, ripped it into four pieces, and threw it in the garbage.

Speaker 1 When my boyfriend saw it, he was shocked and visibly hurt. I get that his intentions were good, but he ruined a piece of art that was not his to begin with.

Speaker 1 Now, it's awkward at home because I'm still fuming and he's sad. Am I the asshole? Holy shit.

Speaker 2 He needs to just get you a new painting.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 2 But you know what? It's the context.

Speaker 2 Like, when I first heard it, I was like, this is just like kind of like a, you know, like a golden retriever boyfriend thing to do where he's like, well, it's sitting in the drawer.

Speaker 2 And now I've brought it out for you. So doesn't that like make it worth it? Yeah.
And, you know, he saved the signature.

Speaker 1 I'm like, sweet. I'm like, there was, there was some thought.
There was some thought behind it, but like, I would never,

Speaker 1 I don't know. And maybe this is like boybrain versus girlfriend because I tell my fiancé this all the time.
I'm like, that that's kind of a boy brain thing you did.

Speaker 1 Like, girl, brain, girl brain wouldn't do that. But I'm like, in my head, I would never think to cut art that someone purchased.
I'm like, that is the art. Like, this isn't a watercolor she made.

Speaker 1 This is something that was purchased. And he thought enough to not cut the signature, but then cut one side.
Like, he didn't even take like a half inch from each side, which is what I would have done.

Speaker 2 He didn't even just fold it over so that, like, or do something like that.

Speaker 1 Or like, where's the piece? Like, can we not,

Speaker 1 like, seam it together in a frame that fits?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm also like, the fact that he thought so deeply about taking it out, fixing it, putting it in a frame, cutting it, but that's not the thing that she wants him to think about.

Speaker 2 She wants him to think about her family values. Not her family values, but her, like, sense of justice and how she wants her things to be treated.

Speaker 2 So I feel like what happened was she was like, you've thought about it, but you thought about the wrong things.

Speaker 1 I know. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Is that like, i guess too it seems like she's been very clear setting the boundary like she said hey please don't touch my stuff please don't give my stuff away and it's something he kind of continues to do it sounds very

Speaker 2 see i'm leaning more

Speaker 1 it's nuanced i know it's so

Speaker 1 like and there's so much like here i'm like how clear had that conversation been in the past i've been thinking of setting that boundary where you just like yeah please don't touch my stuff and it's like okay well is he interpreting that as any of your stuff like hey you bought the toaster i can't touch the toaster We do live together, I'm assuming.

Speaker 2 So, and you know, I do think he was trying to be helpful, but the thing is, it's like, you're also allowed to have your emotional reaction, even if like the intentions were pure.

Speaker 2 And I think that, like, she's showing some level of maturity by acknowledging that and being like, okay, I know that I know that personally, I am someone who has to, who feels their emotions really deeply.

Speaker 2 I know he didn't mean it. Like, she's using very good I language, you know, it's very good.
The therapist would say that's great. But then there's like the extreme of being like, and I ripped it up.

Speaker 1 I know, I'm like, that felt very emotionally immature, yeah. But I'm like, maybe that's how she processes it, and it's just like

Speaker 2 she sounds like she's still upset.

Speaker 1 I know, and it's also like it felt very pointed where it's like he saw the pieces ripped up.

Speaker 1 It's like, it's like, you know, when you like are mad at your partner and you're just like, well, I'm going to like put it in front of him so he knows I'm still mad or I'm going to like

Speaker 1 to send the point home. It's like, she ripped it up and then, did you put it on top of the garbage? So the next time you opened it, he would see it.

Speaker 1 And like, even if you went to the garbage again and you had to throw something away, you picked up those pieces and put your new garbage in there and then reset it back on top. I have no idea, right?

Speaker 1 We have no idea. But I'm like,

Speaker 1 I'm like, you were, you still feel like you were trying to send a message in the way you were processing through it.

Speaker 2 It's also this thing of like, okay, you ruined my piece of paper.

Speaker 2 my you ruined my piece of art so i'm gonna ruin it even more but that's only hurting you yeah like he obviously doesn't have the same appreciation for it as you do.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 2 you're the one who now no longer even gets to enjoy even the slither

Speaker 2 language of the art. And then you've also like made him feel bad.
And now like, now the environment that you're in doesn't is like toxic.

Speaker 1 Nobody's winning here. Cold.

Speaker 2 Nobody's winning. Nobody is winning.
No. So I'm like, that is one of those things where it's like, you kind of have to either.

Speaker 2 I know it sounds so simple, but there's so many like situations in a relationship where you just have to let things go. I know.

Speaker 2 And I saw this like photo of this old couple the other day on TikTok with like the caption of how many times did they have to forgive each other to get to this point?

Speaker 1 Ooh.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, I know I'm going really deep with this, but that's what I think about in those instances where it's like, yes, a mistake was made, however much intentional, unintentional, or ignorant, but then you've heightened this whole emotional situation so that now you both feel terrible.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But wouldn't you be happier if you just forgave and then had a serious conversation and were like, this is going to be the consequence next time? Because the only consequence is like for her.

Speaker 2 She feels shit and she's never up.

Speaker 1 Well, now as someone who, I mean, she said here, like, I ruminate. I tend to cycle and cycle.
And I get that. I'm a ruminator through and through.

Speaker 1 And so for me, if I don't talk something out with my fiance, I'm like.

Speaker 1 Okay, like I'm so unsettled. Like we just need to come to like a resolution in this.
And like, okay, if we need to take a break for an hour, that's cool. But like we can't go days not addressing this.

Speaker 1 No. And so now she's on this part of like, she's now ruminating on how he feels sad and how the place doesn't feel like a happy home.
And it's like,

Speaker 1 was it worth it? Like,

Speaker 1 are you an asshole for throwing out a piece of art that your boyfriend ruined? No, it's your art. You can do what you want with it.

Speaker 1 But was it necessarily like the best way to handle it?

Speaker 1 Maybe not. Maybe not.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Simple solution, like, come, I'm in a therapize situation. He needs to buy you a new piece of art, and you need to tell him that you want a new piece of art.
I know.

Speaker 1 What if that art was like $500?

Speaker 2 Fuck. I know.
It's a little watercolor that she had in the drawer in an envelope. Unless it was literally the Mona Lisa.

Speaker 2 Or like a Picasso.

Speaker 1 It's a watercolor. Yeah.
I'm hoping she can, you know, go back and contact the artist and get another one, you know, even if it's maybe a print this time.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Who knows? There's.
Oh, yeah. Dang.
I kind of thought it was a print, but you're right.

Speaker 1 It's probably one of the prints.

Speaker 2 It was probably like an original piece.

Speaker 1 So I'm like, dang. I know.
And I'm like, was he an idiot and all of this? Yeah.

Speaker 1 I go back and forth with these things that are like seemingly good intentions, but like end up being bad.

Speaker 1 Like, did you hear the story about the room where the wife went on a vacation and she came home and the husband had painted the room green, but it wasn't the green she wanted?

Speaker 1 And she had intentionally told him in past occasions, like, please involve me in big decisions. And he painted the room green, and it was not the green she liked.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And it was like, well, you said forest green, and I painted it forest green, but she wasn't happy because she wasn't involved. And she wanted to pick the color and didn't like the color.

Speaker 1 But it's like, okay, well, was that nice? Or was that,

Speaker 1 was that mean? Was that bad? Like, I, yeah, I struggle with these that are like seemingly nice gestures, but have bad consequences.

Speaker 2 It's like, it's not a nice thing if you're only doing it because you want to appear nice. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 Like, like i just think that's the case it's like you do a favor for someone and they're like well i didn't want you to do that and and then you suddenly it feels quite manipulative when you turn on you're like well i did this nice thing and it's like well i didn't want you to do it like i didn't ask for it yeah it's like so you did it to make yourself feel like a good person but

Speaker 2 and now i have to be like suppressing my own feelings to make you feel like a good person whereas i'm actually unhappy so you're just feeling nice even though no one's happy like i know i feel like i could spiral on that too because it's like it's like why do people do nice things?

Speaker 1 Is it just because they're genuinely nice or do they want to feel nice for helping someone? And I'm like, is anyone really nice?

Speaker 1 Or do we all just have self-serving motives and that's why we do nice things?

Speaker 2 Morgan, we need to slow down.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 2 It's like that episode of Friends where

Speaker 1 Phoebe, I'm scared.

Speaker 2 Time is passing. What does humanity?

Speaker 1 What episode of Friends?

Speaker 2 Where Phoebe has the same dilemma and like allows herself to be stung by a bee?

Speaker 1 Oh my God.

Speaker 1 And then like the bee dies. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Donates to PBS. Like, oh, my God.
Because everyone's like, this. You know what? I think it's like, it's fine to do nice things if it also makes you feel good.

Speaker 2 But that can't be the sole reason you're doing it.

Speaker 1 Okay. I like that.
I'll be happy with that. I'll be happy with that.
And scene.

Speaker 1 The top comment on this one. He was visibly sad.
Him, the butcherer of the art?

Speaker 1 Not the asshole. No, babe.
He's careless to the point of negligence and doesn't know how to use a brain. Or he did this maliciously to make you okay with his tendency to do shit like this.

Speaker 1 Bright red flags.

Speaker 1 I'm furious for you. You felt attached to this artwork and kept it safe.
You've been hunting for a way to display it, but only if you could find the perfect way to do so. There was no rush.

Speaker 1 The frame would speak to you when it was time. But he not only destroyed the piece of art you loved, but he ruined the experience around it.
This speaks to his character.

Speaker 1 And if he doesn't understand why, this was an unspeakable offense. I would dump him yesterday.
I could not live a life filled with so much disregard.

Speaker 2 That's a bit harsh.

Speaker 1 That has 13,000 upvotes.

Speaker 2 Oh my God, I'm really starting to rethink how I think about my relationship, my relationship, because I'm like, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 Every relationship has to have some level of repair. I just don't think that if you're with someone, you should always assume that.
they're trying to be malicious.

Speaker 1 No, and like, I have this like silly example. Like, I was out of town recently and, you know, my fiancé, Justin, was responsible for taking care of the horses.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 One of our horses gets two pills a day. He's got cushions.
So he is a high needs little pony. And we have to hide his pills in these like horse treats that have like a pill pocket.
And

Speaker 1 you have to like keep them soft because otherwise you can't put the pill in and like squish it around. And he left the canister open.
He like opened it, grabbed one and then didn't completely shut it.

Speaker 1 So when I got home, they're all crunchy. And it's like, Justin, did you not care? Did you not care about the horse? Do you not care about me? Now I have to order new pill pockets.

Speaker 1 Like, are you so, you're just terrible? Like, you did it intentionally. Like, if I thought like that, that sounds crazy, doesn't it?

Speaker 2 And also, you will never find love because every single person like makes stupid mistakes and has flaws, and you could read terrible things into every single thing.

Speaker 2 Like, I don't know. Also, like, yeah, it's annoying, but

Speaker 2 I don't know why I forget to put lids on things all the time, but you're allowed to feel upset about it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but like this, I'm like, was he an idiot?

Speaker 1 For sure. For sure.

Speaker 1 And like, I guess I need more context. I'm like, maybe there's a comment from OP.
Maybe she's like. What else he's done?

Speaker 2 But I'm like, I feel like you're taking something and you're coloring it with your own brush in that situation. That person.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I think maybe I'm coloring it with my own brush where I'm like, yeah, that. That stuff happens.
I would be really upset and I can understand like having a really intense emotional reaction.

Speaker 2 But dump him yesterday.

Speaker 2 You are seeing one slice of a relationship and you're applying it to everything.

Speaker 1 I know. I'm like, really, I'm really,

Speaker 2 but then I'm conflicted because she's like, this happens all the time.

Speaker 1 And she did say it happens. Like, she did say it happens, you know, occasionally or whatever.

Speaker 1 And like, because of his context and how he grew up, like sharing things that you're not using, it's like it's fair game, which I have a problem with. I like, I hate when people touch my things.

Speaker 1 I don't know if it's like, yeah, I don't know if it's a scarcity.

Speaker 1 I did. I have an older sibling and two younger ones.

Speaker 2 Well, that makes sense, right? You're the middle child. Everyone was always touching your stuff.
Oh, my God. Whereas I was the older protective.

Speaker 1 So I'm like, go for it. I don't know.

Speaker 2 Oh, so I just grew up with such a big, like, Italian family where I was like, you can't really have your own things.

Speaker 2 Like, you got to get used to it.

Speaker 1 I know. And I'm like, I just, my things are so precious.
Don't touch them.

Speaker 1 OP is very active on Reddit. This is definitely giving real account, real problem, because I am scrolling to even find find this post.

Speaker 2 More, has there been anything else about her boyfriend?

Speaker 1 So I'm trying to see if there's any context because, like, what, you know, there were mentions of he's done this before with things,

Speaker 1 and maybe it doesn't even matter, but I'm like,

Speaker 1 if you've had a very clear conversation with him and he then did this, then I'd be like, okay, maybe that comment is a little more, you know, it's got more juice behind it.

Speaker 2 I will also say, and maybe this will piss people off, but I do think actually it's a sign of emotional incompatibility if you are talking about an issue or a problem with people on the internet or with your friends before you talk about it with your partner.

Speaker 2 And I say this, I've said this before and people have been like, what the heck? No.

Speaker 1 I think it's tough because people get so much bad advice from their friends.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like they really do. I'm like, I almost, I would probably trust neutral internet people more.
There's so many stories.

Speaker 1 I did like a Patreon episode and I had like a bunch of stories about cheating and the amount of people that were like, oh, you should stay with him. You should reconcile.

Speaker 1 And it's like, why are you giving her that advice?

Speaker 1 You cheated when she was postpartum. Like, what?

Speaker 1 Like, what? Why are you giving her that advice?

Speaker 2 And then, also, like, I have a big problem, pet peeve with people being like, dump him.

Speaker 2 Like, dump him. And you should do that.
And if not, you don't have self-respect. And if that, you're looking over huge red flags.
I'm like, you don't understand the relationship.

Speaker 2 Obviously, if it's, if it's abuse and if it's something that is even minor emotional abuse, I understand that. I guess I don't have the context, but I don't look at that as being abusive.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 So, and also, dump him. If you feel like, dump him, I don't know how many times have you been with a terrible person of your friends have said dump him and you've actually done it? Zero.

Speaker 1 Me,

Speaker 1 me, for me personally, zero. Yeah, I went through a lot.
I'm not seeing any comments from OP in regards to this post. Big fan of RuPaul's drag race,

Speaker 1 but nothing in reply to this post.

Speaker 2 Me and her would be good friends then.

Speaker 1 I'm just like, I don't know. I'm like, I want to know more.
I want to know what else he's given away and torn up, but I don't know.

Speaker 1 I'm going to see if there's any other comments that say, you know, anything different. Like,

Speaker 1 slow down top comment. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'd be interested in that.

Speaker 1 Next comment down, it was such an unnecessary risk for him to take. Why wouldn't he just bring his idea to crop it to OP first and at least give her the opportunity to approve it or not?

Speaker 1 Based on the fact that he's he's now sulking, I think he's just a dingus that's clueless about art and composition.

Speaker 1 I agree with that. He's a dingus.

Speaker 2 He's a dingus, and I 100% agree with that person.

Speaker 2 And I love that person.

Speaker 1 A little more, a little more. I like that.
It's more they've touched more grass. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Dump. It's not dump him.
Like, he doesn't understand art.

Speaker 1 I know. And like, it's like, okay, have a very clear conversation.
Really hammer home. Please don't touch my stuff.
Like, especially things like this without asking, come to me.

Speaker 1 And if he still keeps doing this, then you have more of an answer that he doesn't care about your boundaries.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I feel like if this is, sounds like it's not the first time, but I think this is like a really important moment of change for your relationship where you can say both of you have been able to see the emotional impact of it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 The fact that neither of you are talking about it,

Speaker 1 not the right way to go.

Speaker 2 I really think you've got to kind of just be the, I know it sucks, be the big person and say, hey, we both saw this. We both acknowledge this.
I don't want our relationship to be this.

Speaker 2 So I'm giving you the opportunity to change and I'm giving myself the opportunity to express and give you like, honestly, boundaries are a sign of respect for the other person.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they're a sign of love. Yeah.
I'd rather know what I can and can't do than try to be fucking psychic and stick my foot in it. Yeah.
Give me a boundary. I love a good boundary.

Speaker 1 As long as you're like clear and can articulate it well to me, I love it. Like, I don't want to play mind games.
I would rather just have good good communication. Yeah.
That's all it is.

Speaker 1 I feel like a boundary. And people, like, get scared when you're like, I'm going to set a boundary.
It's like, no, it's just me, like, basically communicating my feelings.

Speaker 2 Yeah. That's it.
It's saying, I want to, I want this to work and I want you to be able to love me.

Speaker 1 And I want to be able to love you. Don't be scared of a boundary.

Speaker 2 No, I love a boundary, but I equally like repair as well.

Speaker 2 And like, I've read this really interesting thing that's like Western psychology focuses too much on boundaries and less on sometimes allowing.

Speaker 2 Obviously, like there's a difference between there's different levels of boundaries. and sometimes like

Speaker 1 I don't know I'm just like sometimes you do need to forgive for small things like this I love that and I think it's something that's really interesting just from articles I've read about how like therapy is kind of shifting and like how our generation which is like basically the first generation to really get therapy is kind of taking it and there's an interesting article and I'll have to find it but it was like are we taking boundaries too far are we not giving people chances of repair?

Speaker 1 And, you know, like, hey, you burned me once. Let's, let's address it.
Let's work on it versus like being quick to cut people off. And I think it's a really interesting concept.
It really is.

Speaker 1 I'm like, I'm trying to think if I have a story now that will work off of that. But moving along to the next one, we'll see if there's any repair here.

Speaker 1 It is coming from AITH, 10 days old, titled, Am I the Asshole for Kicking My Sister Out of My Baby Shower Because She Called Me Old and Selfish?

Speaker 1 My sister, female 31, and I, female 34, married around the same time seven years ago. She decided to have kids right away.

Speaker 1 My husband, male 35 and I, decided to buy a house first, do a little traveling, and have enough savings before having kids. My sister now has four kids.

Speaker 1 I'm currently pregnant with our baby, and I've been dealing with hyperimesis gravitarum, HG, and it's been brutal.

Speaker 1 Luckily, my mother-in-law and my husband have been amazing to me, and my boss allowed me to work from home until I give birth.

Speaker 1 My mom can't help me much because she helps out my sister's four kids a lot.

Speaker 1 Yesterday was my baby shower that my sister-in-law threw for me. People kept asking about how I was doing, and I was talking about how HG is horrible.
My sister decided to interrupt me and said,

Speaker 1 Honestly, this is what happens when you get pregnant when you are old. I have had four pregnancies and never had these issues.

Speaker 1 I guess you should have thought about this before all of those trips and the we are not ready yet bullshit.

Speaker 1 Some of us made sacrifices in our 20s.

Speaker 1 I got furious. This wasn't the first time she's commented about my life, so I told her to get the fuck out.
She grabbed my nieces and left.

Speaker 1 My mom said I was being hormonal and I should have just ignored her.

Speaker 1 My mom thinks my sister said that because she became a mom earlier than me and never enjoyed her life or even any alone time with her husband.

Speaker 1 My husband thinks I had every right to be upset because she was saying I deserve HG.

Speaker 1 Do I owe my sister an apology for kicking her out? No.

Speaker 1 Hell no. 100%.

Speaker 1 Hell no.

Speaker 2 No, that is when we talk about repair. Like that was intentionally meant to hurt you.

Speaker 2 To say that to you, to judge your choices, you are experiencing a health problem and she's saying, like, it's because you are selfish. Like, the human body doesn't understand selfishness.

Speaker 2 Like, it's not going to give you like more complications because, like, what, you're a bad person. Like, I just think that is so entitled and rude and projecting of her own intuitives.

Speaker 1 The projection is strong in this one.

Speaker 2 I literally cannot believe that.

Speaker 1 I'm like, okay, what's the math here? Sister's 31.

Speaker 1 She married seven years ago.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so she had, she was like 20, what, 24?

Speaker 1 And like, that this is just screaming jealousy. And like, maybe, you know, maybe their first was a surprise baby.

Speaker 1 And maybe they, you know, maybe they did want to try, but like, those are still choices you made for your life. And hey, even if you had one, you still chose to have three more after.

Speaker 1 Like, you can travel with one baby. It's hard to travel with four kids under the age of under the age of like, I don't know, yes, seven.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 like four under the age of seven like i get she might be tired i get she might be that's a have resentment yeah but i'm sorry you can't resent someone else because they didn't make the choices that you made you can't be like how dare you have a better life than me and i do really think she's like looking at this and being like well that's what you get and maybe trying to justify that she made the right choice maybe that's what it is like psychologically she's like well this didn't happen to me so that's proof that i i did the right thing i wonder if that's what it is but i know people i'm like i know there's obviously you know risk increases with age like pregnancy risks and health risk and complications that increases with age even males age like i just saw a study that like the older a male gets obviously we've talked about like sperm declining as males age but the chances of like ADHD, autism, like that is actually like coming from like male semen in this new study.

Speaker 1 They found that the older males get, the higher chances. And I'm like, yeah, like we, that's a risk all around, but like that's still these people's choice to make.

Speaker 1 And like, I just, I just like might want to mic drop what you said, where it's like, you can't resent people for choices they made or whatever you said.

Speaker 2 I'm like, we got to roll the tape because it was so can't resent people for like a life that they made that you want. Like, you know what I mean? It's so good.

Speaker 2 You can't resent someone else for your life. Yeah.
But I also just think it's like, okay, we're talking about autism and ADHD.

Speaker 1 Like, that's not the end of the world.

Speaker 2 No, I have ADHD and I'm just like, yeah, and autism, it's like, you're going to learn so much more from your child than your child could probably ever learn from you when they had a different life experience.

Speaker 2 No, I know. And they're seeing the world differently.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm like, also, I'm sorry, but pregnancy is such an emotional time. And obviously, we like anyone who's pregnant wants to have a really safe and healthy birth.

Speaker 2 And you would want your family members to want that for you as well. So.

Speaker 2 I'm sure she is already struggling so much with the emotional implications. I'm sure she's probably already thought that in her head.

Speaker 2 And it's a ridiculous thought, but the fact that then someone that she loves and who loves her is repeating it to her is so harmful and unnecessary.

Speaker 1 Like, oh, it's insane. It's insane.
And I hate how like her just being like, get out. Like, you called me old.
You called me selfish.

Speaker 1 You basically said I deserve to have this horrible health condition I'm experiencing. Get out.
I hate how everyone is like making excuses for her then.

Speaker 1 Or like even the mom putting the blame on our writer. Oh, you're hormonal.

Speaker 2 Like, so how are you meant to react to that?

Speaker 1 What am I supposed to jump up and down and say, God damn it, you're right.

Speaker 2 Like, be like, oh, you're so funny, gal. Like,

Speaker 2 that's like, thanks. That's how we joke.
Like, no, that's rude. It's rude and it's mean and it was intended to hurt you.

Speaker 2 And we, in comparison to the previous one, it's like, I think the big difference seems to be an intention to cross the boundary.

Speaker 2 I also just feel like if my, like, me and my sister fight, right? And we say terrible things to each other, but nothing like that.

Speaker 1 That's something else. This is crazy.
I think it is truly jealousy projection. And

Speaker 1 I just, I can't imagine. Like, I just would never, ever say that to someone, even if I was jealous and struggling with feelings.
Like, your mom is already helping you with your four kids.

Speaker 1 Ask her if you can take a vacation. Go travel.
Even if it's a weekend road trip, like. you can still experience life.
Like having kids isn't like this, oh, you got to stay home.

Speaker 1 You can't do shit anymore. Like, no, you can still experience life.
You just now get to enjoy it with four other little people you created. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Come on.

Speaker 2 It's really a mindset. What's the comment say? I really want to know because if someone disagrees, I'm going to be really upset.

Speaker 1 You're going to fight them. Tough comment.
Nope. Not the asshole.
Sis is clearly just jealous and can't handle it.

Speaker 1 Glad you have great in-laws to support you while you deal with a garbage sister and a mom that can't.

Speaker 2 Also, let's just give a shout out to her husband.

Speaker 1 Now, yeah i love it when my boyfriend is like yeah i'm totally on your side you know no doubts no nothing like i'm on your side in the moment at least yeah always on my side in the moment even if i'm wrong and then when i go home and we're in private and we decompress he'll be like you were a little goofy yeah that's exactly how it should be you gotta have someone that like takes your side i again i just saw something didn't you did you talk about it how it's like really important for like couples to always like take sides in public or something.

Speaker 2 I did. I was talking about it on another recent episode about emotional compatibility where I was like, you can disagree in private, but it's important to agree in public.

Speaker 2 Um, specifically because I think, and I don't, I'm not saying, like, you like, imagine if you know, a couple came on the show, right?

Speaker 2 They could disagree with that, but when it's things that are significant and like you really need to take someone's side, you always take your spouse's side.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Even if they're wrong.

Speaker 1 I 100% believe believe it.

Speaker 2 In sickness and in health, in wrongness and in right. You've always got to take their side.

Speaker 1 Happy wife, happy life, you know, whatever gender neutral saying. Is there a gender neutral saying? Happy spouse, happy house.

Speaker 2 There we go. I love that.
I just learned that the other day and I really like it.

Speaker 1 Happy spouse, happy house.

Speaker 1 I love that. That's my new one.
Okay. Yeah, it's good.

Speaker 1 It's so good.

Speaker 1 So good. Yeah, and I completely agree.

Speaker 1 I mean, the comments do go on to say, yeah, I can't imagine being a mom with a daughter having significant health issues during her pregnancy and not jumping in to support her.

Speaker 1 Both mom and sister suck. She's enabling your sister.
She's probably always been entitled to.

Speaker 2 She is enabling your sister as well.

Speaker 1 For sure. And I think favoritism as well.
Oh, sister's definitely the younger little golden child. And that's the thing.
It's like. You have two daughters.

Speaker 1 Just because one chose to have four kids doesn't mean you don't help the other because you're like that other daughter, again, chose to have four kids.

Speaker 1 You shouldn't have four kids if you can't handle four kids and like you should be able to help both daughters

Speaker 2 you know what i mean 100 and the baby isn't even born yet you just have to emotionally support her it's not like she's passing you the baby and saying i don't know whatever it is like she's just saying stand up for me that's not that difficult no or at least don't make me fucking feel bad when i stand up for myself yeah oh my god

Speaker 2 at least don't take sides as a parent in a significant argument at your baby shower no where you should be the center of attention and you have health problems.

Speaker 2 That you probably are, it's costing you a lot emotionally, mentally, socially, financially, physically.

Speaker 1 I'm so mad. When you put it that way,

Speaker 1 when you put it that way,

Speaker 1 there are some comments from OP just providing more insight. Apparently, the sister constantly says she made a sacrifice so that they could be done having babies by the time she was 30.

Speaker 2 Congratulations. That's great.
You made a sacrifice.

Speaker 1 That doesn't mean that everyone else needs to like do the exact same thing and pat you on the back yeah and uh op also adds she is fully convinced this is an age-related problem

Speaker 1 no

Speaker 2 it's like no that's not how that works like it's not how that works you can be 21 and get pregnant and have that exact same issue

Speaker 2 you could genuinely like this is not

Speaker 2 again you don't just get bad like i don't know i just don't think this person has read up on their healthcare no and i'm like i'm gonna bring in some facts okay?

Speaker 1 Anyone can get hyperamesis gravidarum, however, you say it. It affects up to 10% of pregnant women.
I'm scared. It's going to be me.
I'm already nauseous every day.

Speaker 1 Risk factors, having it in a previous pregnancy, being pregnant with twins or more, having a family history, being prone to motion sickness or migraines, having gestational trophoblastic disease, having untreated asthma, having a high saturated fat diet, being exposed to smoking.

Speaker 1 That is a big list of risk factors.

Speaker 1 And granted, this is one site, but I didn't hear age.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 I didn't hear it either. I didn't hear age.

Speaker 2 I did not.

Speaker 1 I didn't hear it. I'm like, and I'm sure, you know, again, being older when you're pregnant, like, it does incur other risk.
But Giselle Boonchin, she's like...

Speaker 2 She just had a baby like last week.

Speaker 1 Isn't she like 48?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like.

Speaker 2 My mom had my sister when she was 47.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Like, and she's healthy and she's great. I'm sorry, this woman is what, 34?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I get it. She's fine.
It's not even a geriatric pregnancy yet. 35 and over is geriatric pregnancy.

Speaker 1 Oh, I feel so much better. Okay.
Yay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But even then, like, that's a terrible term.

Speaker 1 It's just, oh my God, I know you hear geriatric, you're just like,

Speaker 2 no, it's just like, it's from ages ago.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? I know. It shouldn't be called that, but.

Speaker 1 But I'm glad she has a supportive

Speaker 1 in-law side and husband and little one will get here. And hopefully she'll, she'll feel a lot better.

Speaker 2 And she has great in-laws.

Speaker 1 I know. I'm so happy for her with that.
I know. That's it's good to have good in-laws.
Okay, moving along, you said something and it triggered my next story I have.

Speaker 1 You talked about fighting with your sister. So I think this one is going to be perfect for you.

Speaker 2 Okay, give it to me. I'm ready.

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Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 story number three.

Speaker 1 This is coming from AITAH, 16 days old, titled, Am I the Asshole for Leaving My Sister's Wedding After She Made Me the Butt of a Family Joke?

Speaker 1 I, 25 female, have always been the responsible one in my family.

Speaker 1 I've helped raise my younger siblings, worked two jobs during college, and even financially supported my parents when they hit a rough patch.

Speaker 1 My older sister, Rachel, 30 female, has always been the family favorite. She's outgoing, funny, and everyone gravitates towards her.
She got married last weekend, and things hit the fan.

Speaker 1 For context, Rachel has always had this playful habit of roasting me at family gatherings.

Speaker 1 It started with harmless jabs like calling me mom junior because I'd remind everyone to take their meds or clean up after themselves.

Speaker 1 I laughed it off for years, but at some point it turned mean-spirited. She started calling me Miss Buzzkill, saying I don't know how to let loose because I preferred reading at home over clubbing.

Speaker 1 Flash forward to the wedding, Rachel asked me to give a toast as her maid of honor.

Speaker 1 I thought it was a huge honor, so I worked hard on a heartfelt speech about her finding love and the bond we share as sisters.

Speaker 1 But when it was Rachel's turn to speak, she gave this whole jokey speech about the woman I've always looked up to as a reminder of what not to be.

Speaker 1 She then went on to jokingly compare me to a 1950s sitcom mom

Speaker 1 probably schedules fun time.

Speaker 1 Everyone laughed, but I felt humiliated in front of 200 guests. Even my parents were cracking up.

Speaker 1 I wanted to keep it together, but after the speeches ended, I quietly excused myself to the bathroom to cry. When I got back, the jokes hadn't stopped.

Speaker 1 People at my table were still making comments about me being a buzzkill while pouring drinks. I couldn't take it anymore.
I grabbed my purse and left.

Speaker 1 Since the wedding, Rachel has been blowing up my phone, calling me dramatic and saying I ruined her big day by storming off.

Speaker 1 My parents are siding with her, saying it was just a joke and I need to loosen up. I told them I'm done being the family punchline.

Speaker 1 And now everyone's calling me selfish for making the wedding about me.

Speaker 1 Am I the asshole?

Speaker 2 I don't think you're the asshole.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't think so. I'm like, you could have just stayed a little bit longer, longer but i'm like actually that's not really

Speaker 1 like i don't know but i don't actually think you should have i think you should have left i mean this person gave a heartfelt yeah speech put herself on the line and then to just be met with

Speaker 1 you suck you're boring you're a buzzkill yeah like introverted i looked up to you as what not to do see i that was my the thing is that i had the initial instinct and i was like okay let me just try and think about what the fam like let me just try and get into their shoes.

Speaker 2 And it's really hard. I mean, that's-coming from, like, the family, because I'm like, that's just objectively mean.
She financially supported her parents.

Speaker 2 Oh, like, she, she gave this heartfelt speech. Also, I'm sorry.
I looked up to her as to what not to do. How patronizing is that?

Speaker 2 How rude is that? Isn't she younger? She's 25, right?

Speaker 1 She's five years younger. Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's so rude.

Speaker 1 Why, isn't it your wedding?

Speaker 2 Why aren't you talking about your husband?

Speaker 1 Why are you taking one of the biggest days, one of the happiest days to patronize, belittle, and disrespect your sister?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it doesn't seem very

Speaker 1 appropriate. That actually is very confusing because I've never, ever,

Speaker 1 ever heard a bride and groom give a speech except to be like, thank you. We love you all.
Like, thank you so much for supporting us. Like, I've never heard a speech dedicated to the maid of honor.

Speaker 1 It's like the maid of honor gives a speech dedicated to the couple or their

Speaker 1 friend, sister, whatever.

Speaker 2 Maybe she was drunk, like, but she obviously went out of her way to make this very direct speech about this person who is her maid of honor, who has probably sacrificed a lot, who has put time into this beautiful speech.

Speaker 2 Also, like, just because someone's personality is different to yours doesn't mean it's wrong. You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 It's literally the same as what we were talking about before, where it's like, you can't, like, just let people live their life. She's introverted.
That's all right. We need people like that.

Speaker 2 Like, she is responsible. That's amazing.
She chooses to have fun in a different way.

Speaker 1 That's great.

Speaker 2 Like, that's, it's not your life.

Speaker 1 Who cares?

Speaker 2 Like, a buzzkill? That's so mean.

Speaker 1 That's insane. I just like, if we didn't, if we didn't have multiple different kinds of people and diversity and all these things, like, the world would not go round.

Speaker 1 If everyone was fun and carefree and didn't care,

Speaker 1 nothing would get done. Like, we need these people.
And how nice are these people? Hey, you know, you've had a lot of wine before you go to bed, just have a little water.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I need those people in my life.

Speaker 2 Like, don't forget to take your meds.

Speaker 1 That's kind. Thanks.
Like, I'd rather not forget my meds and be messed up tomorrow. Like,

Speaker 1 what? And I think it's sad because, like, by the sounds of this, too,

Speaker 1 she did try to come back and give it another shot. She did.
She kept it together during the speeches. She went to the bathroom to privately cry to not make it about her

Speaker 1 and then came back and they were still joking about her. How long was she in the bathroom? A couple minutes at least.
And you're still joking about her?

Speaker 1 Calling her a buzzkill as you pour your next drink.

Speaker 2 Read the room as well. Like she's obviously upset.
Why would you deliberately want to make someone feel worse?

Speaker 1 You can tell when someone's been crying. Come on.
I know. I feel really

Speaker 1 bad for her.

Speaker 2 I feel really, really terrible for her. Also, just like, I don't know, I fight with my sister, but I would never say those kinds of things about her in a room full of other people.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 2 That's your family member.

Speaker 1 It's hard. Like, I've, I've been around people who have relationships like this with their sibling to the point where their sibling has been like, I genuinely don't know if my sister likes me.

Speaker 1 Oh, like, genuinely. And it's not fun for anyone else to be around either.
Like, you kind of start to feel you're like,

Speaker 1 is she kidding? Is she serious? Like, oh, awkward. Ooh, that one was a little mean.
Yeah. And it's just like, you just, I don't know.
It's like, where does it come from? Is it jealousy? Like, again,

Speaker 1 is this like a root jealousy? We need that, we need that big feeling wheel.

Speaker 2 I feel like it's like she's using her as humor to make herself seem funnier. I will also pull out one more thing.
It's the text messages after.

Speaker 2 Now, this is a big pet peeve of mine. I will never call someone dramatic for feeling a feeling that is theirs.

Speaker 1 I will.

Speaker 1 Like.

Speaker 2 If it's a situation like this, I will never be like, you're being so dramatic.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 This isn't dramatic to me. I would, yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm like, her sister being like, you're so dramatic. I'm like, that if I wouldn't seriously say that to someone as a way to shut down their emotional response.

Speaker 1 Also, what did she do that was so dramatic?

Speaker 1 She quietly left. She quietly left.
Yeah. No one probably noticed.

Speaker 2 Beyond blowing up her phone, being like, forgive me, forget. Like, I don't know, not even, she's not even asking her to forgive her.
She's just being like, I, I'm angry. Let me be angry at you.

Speaker 1 And then I call her selfish.

Speaker 2 I, again,

Speaker 2 all these people who I'm like, come into my family. Like this person, I'm like, they don't deserve you.

Speaker 2 Come and be loved.

Speaker 2 We will make sure that we take our message.

Speaker 1 I'll adopt you.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 We'll appreciate that.

Speaker 1 Come on. Come join us.

Speaker 2 No, please. We'll get the paperwork signed right now.

Speaker 1 And just the whole, the fact, the whole family, multiple people. The whole family.

Speaker 2 Her parents who she supported.

Speaker 1 Absolutely not. Not the asshole.
No, no, no, no, no. The top comment on this one, not the asshole.
When someone disrespects you as a person, you remove yourself from their presence.

Speaker 1 You know, this wasn't just a joking, little fun poke. This was downright making you the butt of an ongoing joke.

Speaker 1 The fact that she would make her speech about you instead of the love of her life in front of her and her new husband is despicable.

Speaker 1 She can find someone else to humiliate for her jollies from here on out.

Speaker 2 Amen. Preach That comment.

Speaker 1 11k up votes. Next comment down.
I have to wonder what the husband's family thought about it.

Speaker 1 Instead of talking about her love for their son and her happiness to be spending her life with him, she decided to mock her sister for her hard work and taking care of everyone.

Speaker 1 I would be so disgusted if I heard someone mocking the responsible one.

Speaker 2 Can you imagine if, uh, like, do you have a, you have a brother, right? No, you have all sisters.

Speaker 1 I have two brothers and a sister.

Speaker 2 Two brothers and a sister. That's where I got confused.
Can you imagine, what would your response be? Are they both married?

Speaker 1 My older one is.

Speaker 2 Okay, so your young brother gets married, and his now wife spends sounds like a good 10 minutes making fun of her sister.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 2 also, if you know, I'm thinking about Tom, my partner, shout out Tom, who's probably listening to this. Hey, Tom, because he loves Du Rottes.

Speaker 2 But like, I just imagine marrying him and having him do that, which he would never do.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 I'm like, oh, I really would be like, ha,

Speaker 1 oh,

Speaker 1 oh.

Speaker 2 I'm sure he like already knows that about her, hopefully.

Speaker 1 I would hate it, like, watching my brother marry someone who is just like cruel. Cause I, I, I look at that and I'm like, she's cruel.

Speaker 1 She's not nice. Like, is this going to be your kids' biggest bully, their mom?

Speaker 1 Like, that's how I would look at it. I just think some people excuse it.

Speaker 1 I just I feel like it goes over their head or they do think it's a joke or maybe that's their sense of humor too, but I think when you have someone who's now said like I don't appreciate this, I want to be treated better

Speaker 1 You got to knock it off. Yeah

Speaker 2 gotta knock it off or lose the relationship And you know, what will happen is I see this a lot where then people are like my sister's just crazy.

Speaker 2 She just randomly cut me off like she's just a psycho and like her emotion. She just doesn't have any emotional maturity.

Speaker 2 And then like her sister's being like on Reddit, being like, example one, example two, example three.

Speaker 2 And then there's like thousands of people who are like anonymously, anonymously being like, yes, like we're on your side, we're on your side.

Speaker 2 And I bet like the sister, I would be, I wish that there was one from the sister being like,

Speaker 2 am I the asshole? Like my sister stormed out of my wedding and I'm like so upset. She's always like, I don't know.
I wonder what she would say. Like, she's always maybe looked down on me.

Speaker 2 Like, maybe that's what she's thinking she's doing. I don't know.
It's like, I'm confused. I'm confused, but I know I'm on her side.
Yeah. I know I'm on like the bride, made of honor side.

Speaker 2 Like the bride, not the bride.

Speaker 1 That's what I was going to say, too.

Speaker 1 Why did she make this person her maid of honor?

Speaker 1 You don't like this person. You do not like your sister.
Why did you make her your maid of honor?

Speaker 2 Because she's organized, because you know she was going to get stuff done.

Speaker 1 She wanted the free labor.

Speaker 2 And now she's making fun of her for it.

Speaker 2 We

Speaker 1 need this family in here right now. You don't bite the hand that feeds you.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then like, just like the fact that she's helped her parents at 25 to like float your parents when they're in a rough patch.

Speaker 1 These parents need to get their shit together and never say another thing to her.

Speaker 2 She sounds so unappreciated.

Speaker 1 Oh my God. The fact the parents even are doubling down and being like, you're selfish.
She helped you. She helped you.
Where was the other daughter? That's older.

Speaker 1 Oh, I'm over it. I hate them.
I'm just so sad for this person.

Speaker 2 So am I.

Speaker 1 I'm like, I'm just sad.

Speaker 2 I'm like, I really hope hope that you see that. I don't know why.
I'm like, I hope you see this. And I hope you know that, like, it's okay to grow no contact.

Speaker 2 And like, I love how it's like, don't just cut people out of your life.

Speaker 1 I know. This one doesn't seem like that ripari.

Speaker 2 No, it doesn't seem that ripari.

Speaker 2 We're seeing a lot of distinction here

Speaker 2 between things that are serious, things that are cruel, things that are accidental.

Speaker 1 Is this a normal thing for like,

Speaker 1 I feel like sisters fight more than brothers.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I have like sister-brother dynamic, and we have a big age gap, so we fought a lot, but it seems like sisters that are close in age fight more than like other dynamics.

Speaker 1 Like, and I don't know, like, do you grow out of that?

Speaker 1 Because I know it's talked about a lot, like moms and daughters, you fight a lot, and then you get to a certain point in your 20s, and you're like, oh, I like my mom. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So I'm like, is there anything, like, why? Like, we've seen now two sister dynamics that are just like not healthy. Like, is there anything?

Speaker 2 See, I think that there is already like thinking of the psychology like a natural competition between women even siblings especially within a family so both of these have been when there's lots of family around so they're making a show of it yeah so perhaps like separate to their family like if they were to hang out one-on-one not not at christmas not a not at a wedding not at a baby shower would be better but in that dynamic it probably becomes incredibly heightened parents are there you know there's a lot of comparison going on because other family is there.

Speaker 2 I also just think that, yes, it is natural to have disagreements with people that you're close to because you're around them the most. You're emotionally intertwined in their life.

Speaker 2 The thing about siblings, though, is you're kind of forced to be friends with this person.

Speaker 1 And sometimes you don't like them.

Speaker 2 Listen, I like my siblings. Like, I'm very blessed where I like them and I love them.
So it's great. But there have been times where I've been like, God, like I just,

Speaker 1 I'm like, you're such a dick. You're so annoying.
It's so freaking annoying.

Speaker 2 And you're like, I wouldn't do it that way. But I do think that there is a thing to be said about sisters as well, because there is such an emotional intimacy and vulnerability there.

Speaker 2 They can also really just like cut where it hurts.

Speaker 1 Maybe because they're a lot more empathetic, right?

Speaker 2 So with empathy, it comes acknowledgement of someone else's insecurity. So it's like,

Speaker 2 they can just go like right there.

Speaker 1 It's like pressure points.

Speaker 2 It's like acupuncture, but for insecurity and pain.

Speaker 2 And you can't use that. It's a special skill.

Speaker 1 You can't use that skill infinite mean ways. No, that's crazy.
I really think so. So crazy.

Speaker 1 Is there anything like,

Speaker 1 and I think this comes up a lot in our Reddit stories, but it always seems like people try to pick on others in front of groups. And like, is there anything behind that?

Speaker 1 Because I'm like, and like pranks, like pranking people, like, I fucking hate a prank.

Speaker 1 I'm just like, is there like something psychologically where it makes them feel better to bring other people lower in front of others? Like, are they trying to gain the

Speaker 1 like approval, approval of the group, and they think that belittling someone else is going to do it? Like, like, what?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. I've got like two studies for you.
Two,

Speaker 2 two concepts. First is like in-group, out-group relations.
Yep. Everyone wants to be part of the in-group, right?

Speaker 2 And by being part of the in-group, you show that you are more aligned with other members of the in-group. Now, if there's someone in that in-group who is perhaps

Speaker 2 you're jealous jealous of or who perhaps you feel is taking up too much space, the easiest way to put them in the out-group is to say, look at this person, they're not like us.

Speaker 2 Look at this person, they don't have our qualities, they don't have our values. So you chip away at their character.
Look at the sibling. She's not fun like us.
She's responsible.

Speaker 2 So I want to take her out of the spotlight.

Speaker 1 I want to remove her from the group.

Speaker 2 like in-group out-group dynamics the other thing is a study that i read around bullying behavior just recently actually

Speaker 2 This study is specifically around cyberbullying, but they have done follow-ups on in-person bullying and like interpersonal relationships, of familial relationships or friendships bullying within those groups.

Speaker 2 People with a lower sense of self-esteem and higher rates of what we call Machiavellianism.

Speaker 1 Can you break that down? I'm like, I've heard the term. Manipulation.

Speaker 2 People who are manipulative, some would even suggest have higher,

Speaker 2 like

Speaker 2 not traits, but higher levels of trait-based narcissism, trait-based psychopathy, more likely to bully others. And they get a self-esteem kick out of it.

Speaker 1 I mean, that makes, and cyberbullying is the easiest way to do it. You're anonymous.

Speaker 1 But also within family, you know that they have to, you think that they'll have to forgive you.

Speaker 2 So it does happen.

Speaker 2 It does. So it happens a lot.

Speaker 2 I also think that with this as well, it's like, okay, so if you can't be where they are, the next best place is to pull them down to where you are because at least it's not going to create insecurity anymore so i see this a lot with like

Speaker 2 it's i see this a lot with cyber bullying yeah but it's like why people cyber bully like celebrities and like influencers and you know successful women and they're like oh but she's ugly why is it women too like oh just fucking patriarchy

Speaker 2 it's because it's like i don't know why and you know what it is it's always men being like she's fat and i'm like at least be smart like if you're gonna criticize someone, like

Speaker 1 you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 I'm like, okay, cool, because men have suddenly realized that that's the worst thing to say to a woman, like the worst thing to say to a man is like, he's balding,

Speaker 2 like, yeah, or that he's lonely, or that he's, I don't know, like, I don't know what it is for a man, yeah, no, they don't have as much look-based,

Speaker 2 you know what I mean? Like, there's not as much patriarchal focus on image, so it's easier to cyber bully women.

Speaker 1 It's so interesting to me, and I mean,

Speaker 1 the study study says what the study says and

Speaker 1 yeah i can't i

Speaker 1 bullying is something i will never never understand as someone that was like severely bullied in high school to the point

Speaker 1 i was

Speaker 1 put in a little facility um i just like cannot imagine

Speaker 1 ever designating time in my life to bullying others. I but I can't really understand it either.

Speaker 2 I'm like,

Speaker 2 surely you have a bit of self-awareness to realize that this like validation and reinforcement that you're getting is quite unsustainable and quite unhealthy. Yeah.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 It's like just feeding yourself sugar. Like you're not actually gaining real confidence from building.

Speaker 1 I think it is, it's another sense of addiction. I really do.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I do think it's another sense of addiction because it's like, as you said, like you get a bump on that like that insecurity that you have. And so you get that bump.

Speaker 1 And it's like every time you do it, you get that bump. And it's just like.

Speaker 2 someone needs to do a study on this, actually, like dopamine levels and bullying and whether bringing someone down and elicits more joy in certain people and more discomfort.

Speaker 2 Because I'm sure that if you and I did it, or like someone who's experienced bullying in the past, like, is never going to do it again.

Speaker 1 No, it would, it would, it would physically make me ill to ever like, yeah, I just, I can't, I can't even wrap my head around it. Yeah, crazy.
There's no comments from OP on this one.

Speaker 1 Account has been suspended, but so, so, so many comments of support and just like, please cut her off. Like, you don't deserve this.
Don't help your family anymore if they're going to act like this.

Speaker 1 So I'm hoping OP

Speaker 1 saw all of these comments. I hope OP takes it a step further and sends this post to her family.
Oh, yeah, I would love to see that.

Speaker 1 And there's been posts like that where they've sent it to their family and everyone is like,

Speaker 1 damn, I do suck. Yeah.
So this could be one of them that gets people shaped up real quick.

Speaker 2 Probably not that sister.

Speaker 1 She sounds god-awful. Sister sounds like a pill.
Yeah, she does.

Speaker 2 Oh, I want to bring that back to saying someone sounds like a pill.

Speaker 1 Sounds like a pill. I like that a lot.
But moving along.

Speaker 1 Another one of this week's partners is Talkspace. I don't know what's in retrograde, but I have been having a really hard time with my mental health lately.

Speaker 1 We're just not equipped to deal with everything on our own. So if you have been thinking about trying therapy or getting back into it, try try Talkspace.

Speaker 1 Talkspace is all about providing convenient and affordable mental health care. It's in network with most insurance providers.
Most insured members actually have a zero-dollar copay. Zero dollars.

Speaker 1 And I know therapy can be hard to fit in your schedule and drive to an appointment and do this and do that. Talkspace is completely online.

Speaker 1 I've loved online therapy in the past because I could take my appointments from my car, from a park, from the comfort of my bed. And they even have couples therapy if that's something you need.

Speaker 1 As a listener of this podcast, you'll get $80 off your first month with Talkspace when you go to talkspace.com/slash THT and enter promo code space80.

Speaker 1 To match with a licensed therapist today, go to talkspace.com/slash th and enter promo code space80.

Speaker 1 To get $80 off your first month and show your support for the show, that's talkspace.com/slash th promo code space 80.

Speaker 1 Okay, this next one for us.

Speaker 1 It is coming from AITAH, four hours old. My sidekick Carrie, over there, found it.
I'm going into this completely blind with you. I have no idea.
I haven't even read the title.

Speaker 1 I'm taking on Carrie for her word today, which is stressing me out, but I'm sure it's good. I'm sure it's good.

Speaker 1 Okay,

Speaker 1 this is titled, Am I the Asshole? My wife became emotionally abusive since giving birth. She topped it off by cheating.
Now she is begging me to reconsider.

Speaker 2 That's it?

Speaker 1 Just triple way. No, no, no.
We have more. I was like, oh my God.

Speaker 1 I, 28 male, have been married to my wife, 27 female, for two years, together for four. 14 months ago, we had our first baby.

Speaker 1 She hasn't gone back to work, and I've been the sole breadwinner, her choice. And since she gave birth, my wife has become a nightmare to deal with.

Speaker 1 She became irritable, angry at me for the smallest reasons, complains about everything. Everything is somehow my fault.

Speaker 1 All she does is hold the baby all day, even if he didn't need to be held, and scroll through her phone. Everything else is my responsibility.

Speaker 1 We haven't had sex for over a year and a half, and whenever I try to address it, she lashes out at me because even though I'm the only one who works and I do all of the housework, yet I'm insensitive and don't care about her.

Speaker 1 I haven't brought up sex until three months postpartum, even.

Speaker 1 I was basically her emotional punching bag. I tried to get her therapy.
I tried to address her behavior, but all I get is more verbal abuse. I hated our marriage.

Speaker 1 I wanted to end it, but I was so scared at the idea of co-parenting. I was scared of the social backlash of ending a marriage with a child involved.

Speaker 1 And also, a small part of me was hoping that somehow things would get well and back together. Well, last month, she made it a lot easier to end it.

Speaker 1 She told me she was going to a bar with her friends and she came back home at 4 a.m. drunk.

Speaker 1 As soon as she slept, I snooped through her phone and found text between her and a random guy implying that she went to a hotel room with him. I was almost relieved when I saw them.

Speaker 1 I can finally walk away from this miserable marriage without any guilt or regret. The first thing I did was take a DNA test for the baby.
He is mine.

Speaker 1 As soon as the results came back, I informed my wife that I'm aware of her infidelity and our marriage is over. She broke down crying.
She begged me for my forgiveness.

Speaker 1 She tried to use every excuse in the book, postpartum depression, past trauma, alcohol. She promised to make it up to me.

Speaker 1 She said she would do whatever I want, said that she doesn't want our family to break, but I wasn't having any of it.

Speaker 1 I have already hated this marriage, and the infidelity was just the nail in the coffin.

Speaker 1 We still live together, and she has been begging me to reconsider, promising me everything under the sun, but I have no intention of reconsidering.

Speaker 1 And I told her she is not allowed to speak to me anymore. Am I the asshole? No,

Speaker 2 I don't think you are. And I, and I say that with like a lot of compassion for postpartum depression, postpartum personality changes, even postpartum psychosis.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 But there seems to be an element of this that is just beyond that,

Speaker 2 that seems quite intentional.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Also, like, you, he just sounded so unhappy. He just sounded so unhappy.
And then to cheat on him as well when he's just been doing so much.

Speaker 2 It's hard. Like, I appreciate having a new baby is just difficult.
It puts your body through so much,

Speaker 2 but this is your partner. You're in this together.
And if you can't see that, let alone even respect them, why do you want a relationship with them?

Speaker 2 Is it like, why does she want to be back together with him? Doesn't sound like she was really enjoying the marriage either.

Speaker 1 No, she just doesn't fulfill at all either.

Speaker 2 No, really, she doesn't. Maybe she's just like, oh, no, now I don't have the stability.
Or maybe it's like, oh, now I have to, I took you for granted.

Speaker 2 Now I have to come to terms with the fact that I'm going to lose out on like such an amazing thing. Doesn't mean that you should stay.

Speaker 1 This is so bonkers to me.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 they have a 14-month-old baby now. I'm like trying to do the math.
Got married two years ago, 14-month-old baby.

Speaker 2 They had them, they've only been been together for like two, two years and eight months.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so I'm like, maybe marriage was because of the baby is kind of the math. I'm like,

Speaker 1 that math would make sense, right? What's 14 months plus nine months?

Speaker 2 25 months, which is like

Speaker 1 two years is 24. So maybe found out.

Speaker 2 Two years in a month.

Speaker 1 Found out she was pregnant, then got married, or were, I don't know. Math is a little interesting to me.

Speaker 1 But I'm like, there's such things as like persistent postpartum depression, and that can linger well beyond, you know, normal postpartum depression.

Speaker 1 But the difference, like, here for me is like, he's been trying to get her help. He's been trying to get her to go to therapy, trying to address her behavior.

Speaker 1 And all he's getting is more verbal abuse. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's not what he deserves. No one deserves that.
You're trying to help, and all you get is more of the terrorization, the degrading, the abuse.

Speaker 1 Unacceptable. Like, he's got to get out.
He's got to get out. I don't care if there's a baby involved.
Never, like,

Speaker 1 ever in my head, a reason to stay. And, like, you will be better, healthier, happier as co-parents because this situation is brutal.

Speaker 1 And I think, like, looking at their ages, and I think this happens a lot in your 20s, that sunken cost fallacy.

Speaker 2 Oh, man.

Speaker 1 Like, you convince yourself to stay. You convince yourself it'll get better.
Or Or I've invested so much time. I don't want to start over.

Speaker 1 We've got a kid together. I don't.

Speaker 2 Then it's 10 years later and you're miserable.

Speaker 1 Still.

Speaker 2 Also, like if you, I think he's he was saying something specifically around we have a child together, the social pressure of staying together. Yeah.
Let me just say this.

Speaker 2 Let's focus on the kid for a second. It's not a healthy example for your child to grow up where two parents don't love each other.

Speaker 2 I understand people do stay together and people do fall out of love.

Speaker 2 But in this situation, you know, if you want to think about what's best for your child, maybe she does need to be alone and to take time away to like deal with her own stuff.

Speaker 2 Like maybe she would be better with someone else. Maybe you definitely sound like you would.
And then your child gets to see two examples of healthy love. And that's actually a really beautiful thing.

Speaker 2 I don't think that they would,

Speaker 2 you know, in 10 years, 12 years, 13 years, be resentful for you for doing that.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 Also, like, I get giving and giving and giving to a relationship, but it's if at some stage you have to take care of yourself, otherwise the whole shit burns down.

Speaker 1 Oh, you can't light yourself on fire to keep other people warm. I'll say it again and again and again.

Speaker 1 And I think you're so right.

Speaker 1 Like seeing two parents happy and in love and healthy, like there's so many studies on it that show like kids who witness abuse and it changes their brain and not for the better. So, you know,

Speaker 1 I feel like we all get a little bonked up, you know, in life as kids.

Speaker 1 Like, no matter how great our parents are or if they split and things like that, it's just like we all go through stuff, but this is a worse situation than I hope what comes out of a divorce.

Speaker 1 Like, he sounds like he's at least going to be a good dad.

Speaker 2 Oh, he sounds like he's going to be an amazing dad. He's really

Speaker 1 been doing everything. I know.
He's keeping the boat afloat.

Speaker 2 She does sound like she's going to be a good mom. You know, she's holding the baby.
She obviously cares about the baby.

Speaker 2 I just don't think she's a good wife.

Speaker 1 That's all right.

Speaker 2 Some people aren't made to do that.

Speaker 1 No, no.

Speaker 1 Top comment on this one. Postpartum is addressed by therapy, not with adultery.
Oh,

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 1 Damn.

Speaker 2 Oh my God, that's just my job right there.

Speaker 1 They go on to say, I'd honestly start separation proceedings. Just make sure you kept screenshots of her tax.

Speaker 2 Can you use screenshots in court in cases these days?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.
Here in the States, you can, at least. Yeah.
I don't know about if it's in Australia.

Speaker 2 I'm like, I can't remember, but yeah, please do that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's admissible.

Speaker 2 Wow. And also, like, that's

Speaker 1 wow.

Speaker 2 Crosspotum is addressed by therapy, not by adultery.

Speaker 1 Well, and that's another interesting thing. I'm like, maybe there's some

Speaker 1 in my head, I'm like just trying to like weave through what she could be thinking, but I'm like, Mary, maybe like she had a traumatic birth and resents him because he got her pregnant and all this stuff.

Speaker 1 So it's like she wants affection, but not from him because he gave her the ick in a sense. Like, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 I'm like, I don't know what it is, but either way, it's like you're married, those are vows you agreed to.

Speaker 1 Like, if you're not happy and you don't want affection from him, why aren't you talking about it and addressing it and either going to therapy and working through it or seeking a divorce before cheating?

Speaker 2 Like, there's a psychological roadblock going on here.

Speaker 1 It's a lot. Yeah.
Like, something for her.

Speaker 2 For her, and I'm like, I don't think you want to be married anymore. Like, no.
You went out and sucked with someone else.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 2 I just don't think I could stay with someone if they did that to me. No.
Especially when we have a child together.

Speaker 1 No. A baby, nonetheless.
I'm taking my kid and I'm running. Yeah.
Bye. Bye.

Speaker 1 There's only one comment from OP

Speaker 1 saying, I already have the screenshots. And then goes on to say, cheating after denying me sex for over a year and a half and lashing out at me for even trying to address it is straight up vile.

Speaker 1 She couldn't care less about me when she did it. There's no coming back no matter what she does.

Speaker 2 Amen. I will say it's okay to deny sex.
Like, she's allowed to not want to have sex. Yeah.
But there has to be a conversation around how your relationship is going to

Speaker 2 evolve. And it sounds like she does want to have sex, just not with you.

Speaker 1 Which is interesting.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's interesting. It's definitely like, I don't think there's attraction there anymore.
Maybe she's just like, I just see you in a different light now. I don't know.

Speaker 2 I just feel like when like Tom becomes a dad, I'm just going to be like, I want to jump your bones. Because I'm like, that's sexy.
Like now it's so hot. I feel like the father to my children.

Speaker 1 It's so hot. I love it when like my fiancé cries.
I'm like, I'm just like,

Speaker 1 I feel so bad. I just want to hug him, but I'm like, hot.
Yeah. Like seeing him hold a baby.

Speaker 2 Take your clothes off now.

Speaker 1 He's like,

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 1 So I don't know. Again, it kind of brings me back to like, maybe they got married for the wrong reasons and we're trying to force it.

Speaker 2 Can I also say something controversial?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Maybe your listeners will not like this. Too hot tanks.

Speaker 1 Name of the game, baby, right here.

Speaker 2 I'm going to play the game. Let's go.
I do think that you should be dating for at least three to four years before you get engaged.

Speaker 1 Ooh.

Speaker 2 And I do know people who have gotten married sooner. My preference is like, I want to see you.
You have to see each other through different seasons to see if you'll be able to work through them.

Speaker 2 you have to have the big fight you have to have maybe even long distance you have to have a compromise and choices i know some people don't agree with me, but personally, I'm like, there's a greater success rate.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think there's a lot of like, because we've talked about this on an episode and people were like, I got married after two weeks and we're together 14 years. And I'm like, that is unreal.

Speaker 1 But I think you're the exception. Yeah, just the rule.

Speaker 2 It's like you're the, you think you're the rule because that's all you've ever known, but you're not like, you don't have a fair sample size.

Speaker 2 Like you're not looking at everyone else who's gotten divorced.

Speaker 2 You were to look at the data. Like I do seriously think that the longer you're together before you get married,

Speaker 2 the chances of

Speaker 2 lasting work. Also, because it's like you've had the opportunity to break up.
You know what I mean?

Speaker 2 It's like, if you've been together for five years, you probably have had times where you've been like, is this right for me?

Speaker 2 And you've decided that it is.

Speaker 1 Whereas, like, that was something I wanted to ask you because I'm like, I don't remember if I saw a story or something, but I'm like, I think there was one where this guy like, saw a text on his girlfriend's computer.

Speaker 1 We're just going to get into it. We're going to go right into this and then I'm going to ask my question.
Okay, yeah, it's telling me essentially it's like,

Speaker 1 oh my God, it just fell out of my head.

Speaker 2 No, guys saw a text on the girlfriend's computer. Marit, I need to be dating for three to four years.

Speaker 1 Oh, but essentially, it's like, is it normal to question, should you break up? And

Speaker 1 are you settling? And this next story will help us get into that. Let's do it.
Okay.

Speaker 1 Another one of this week's partners is Bumble. Are you ready to date your way?

Speaker 1 Yeah, doing what makes you you comfortable, not worrying if you're replying to their message too soon or being too excited or being too scared to show your funny side or maybe a hobby or niche you're really into.

Speaker 1 Because it doesn't seem likely you're going to find your person if you're not being you. And that's where Bumble comes in.
Bumble wants everyone to date their way.

Speaker 1 They have so many different profile prompts that you can show off your personality, sense of humor, interests.

Speaker 1 You're really going to get the most out of your dating journey and make it what you want it to be.

Speaker 1 You can even make sure you're aligning with matches on intentions, what they're really looking for, whether they want to just meet up and chat or they're looking for a long-term relationship.

Speaker 1 There's so many different features to show more of you.

Speaker 1 I met Justin, my fiancé, on a dating app six years ago now, and I did it by putting myself out there, by being my most authentic self, and it paid off.

Speaker 1 So, no more wondering if that match likes Chapel Roan. Hopefully, they're proudly displaying it on their profile.
So, come on, give it a shot, and date your way on Bumble.

Speaker 1 This one is coming from Relationship Advice, two months old, titled, I accidentally saw a text on my 28 male girlfriend, 29 female computer saying that she feels she's out of my league.

Speaker 1 I feel like I have to break up with her. Question mark.

Speaker 1 I've been with my girlfriend for around three years. Everything has been pretty good overall.
This happened a few weeks ago, so I've had time to think on it.

Speaker 1 My girlfriend had an opportunity to go on a free sunset cruise, fancy dinner, drinks, et cetera, with some co-workers, but had a presentation due that night, which needed a bit of work.

Speaker 1 So I said I'd do it so she could go.

Speaker 1 Damn, that's nice.

Speaker 2 Sweet man.

Speaker 1 Turns out it needed a bit more work than I thought. I was on her MacBook and I went to send it to myself to work on the desktop, Windows, so I can be more comfortable.

Speaker 1 So I opened messages, can't find my name in the recent convos, and just type it in the search bar.

Speaker 1 When you do that on a Mac, it turns out it'll show you the contact if you search the name and also show the most recent conversations where the search term, my name, was mentioned.

Speaker 1 Right before I click my name, I notice a message from her sister that says,

Speaker 1 I like OP a lot, but I feel like you are very much out of his league, and he should try harder to be a better man for you.

Speaker 2 So I open it up.

Speaker 1 Maybe shitty, I know. To which my girlfriend responded, I agree.

Speaker 1 I read their convo, nothing more. And she went on to say that she thinks I'm unambitious, eat like shit,

Speaker 1 will resent me for making less than her, and that she, quote, wouldn't want kids with me even if she did want kids. She said that I was the one thing keeping her happy, though.

Speaker 1 This was said during a fight over her never being willing to visit me one hour away and leaving me to do all the traveling, but then saying she was going to fly six hours one way to visit her male friend for literally one day.

Speaker 1 She'd fly in at night, spend one day together, then fly back the following day.

Speaker 1 It turned into a fight because she was willing to fly 12 hours round trip and spend hundreds of dollars on a flight, and we both have no money because we're students, so it's a big deal, but yet wouldn't travel one hour away to visit me for an entire weekend.

Speaker 1 Just to clarify, she didn't end up going because I thought it was suspicious and we got in a fight. And during and after the fight, the convo took place.

Speaker 1 I'd agree that she probably is out of my league and she will most definitely make more money than me.

Speaker 1 But we both will have a doctoral degree and I expect to make 120K through 130K and she'll probably make 250K through 300K.

Speaker 1 So there is an income disparity, but it's not like I'm not making good money regardless.

Speaker 1 I don't think I eat that bad and I'm slim, so I don't think I'm completely out of touch there, but definitely not eating salmon and steak every night. There was no mistreatment on either end.

Speaker 1 I try to do nice things with and for her within the means of my zero-dollar student salary, and her parents like me. I just think she doesn't like me.

Speaker 1 I almost feel numb for asking, but I'd be a fool if I didn't break up with her, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, honey,

Speaker 2 sweet boy.

Speaker 2 That sucks. Sweet boy, you sound amazing.
He sounds great. He sounds kind.

Speaker 2 I'm sorry, but if you think that your partner eats like shit, if you wouldn't have children, even if you wanted children, already can tell you're going to resent them for making less money.

Speaker 2 Why are you with him? Like,

Speaker 2 you're with him for your own benefit. I think it's honestly selfish to be like, he makes me happy, but I don't respect him at all.
Find someone you do respect then.

Speaker 1 I'm literally at a loss for words. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because I'm trying to figure her out and I'm like, are you, you just don't want to be alone?

Speaker 2 That's that's it.

Speaker 2 The bottom line is you don't want to be alone and you're willing to have the security of a relationship maybe because she's like it's gonna be so much effort dating and here's this guy who like is good enough but you know when it comes to it I'll break up with him when it just gets I think maybe she's waiting for him to fail waiting for him to slip up but also like you're wasting both of your time yeah there is a woman out there who is going to be like this is the most amazing man on the planet he offered let's let's wind this back to realize how he even found these messages.

Speaker 1 He offered to do her work presentation for her so she could go on a sunset cruise.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Doesn't sound like a nasty man to me. It doesn't sound like someone I wouldn't be happy to be with.
Like, what a kind gentleman.

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 2 And you know how you asked me? You were like, is it okay to have doubts about a relationship? Yeah. Yeah, it is.
I think it is. That's not a doubt, though.

Speaker 1 These don't seem like doubts.

Speaker 2 That seems like you have a very, very set opinion on what you think this other person is and who you think they are to you.

Speaker 1 It's almost like she thinks, and she does by agreeing with her sister by saying, like, oh, yeah, like I am out of his league. Like, so you think you're greater than him.
Like, he's less than you.

Speaker 1 He's under your level. He's less than.
That's kind of what you're applying. Yeah.
But then I know it's like, I'm re-watching How I Met Your Mother right now, and I don't. Oh, I love that show.

Speaker 1 I don't know if you've seen it, but there's this episode where they talk about how there's always a settler. And in Marshall and Lily's relationship, Lily is settling.

Speaker 1 And Marshall goes out of his way to prove like, no, I can get girls. No, like, you're not settling.
No. Yeah, I'm not.
No.

Speaker 1 And it's just like, is that the case? Like, is do do does everyone think that? Do a lot of people think that? Like, I don't think I'm. Do you think that? No, but I'm like, I don't think I'm settling.

Speaker 1 But I'm like, is it normal? Like, a lot of people talk about that. And there's so many phrases like, oh, he really out-kicked his coverage, or

Speaker 1 she's out of his league, or he's out of her league, or damn, like,

Speaker 2 how did you end up with her? Yeah. How much is he making?

Speaker 1 Like, that kind of deal. And I'm like, what? It's obviously a common thought for a lot of people because there's so many tropes about it.

Speaker 2 But why do you need to think about that? If you love them, why do you like a league is for other people to apply to your relationship?

Speaker 2 Like, why do, why would you ever look at your partner and be like,

Speaker 2 I'm better than you, and that makes me happy?

Speaker 1 Why are you with them?

Speaker 1 If you think you're downgrading, why are you with them?

Speaker 2 Like, I honestly think that my partner is better than me. I'm like, you're amazing.
But we've had this conversation before. But he's like, yeah, but you're so much better than me in this regard.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, okay, so we both actually admire each other.

Speaker 1 And that's what I'm asking. I'm like, I'm better at Justin than, you know, I don't know, editing the podcast.
And he's better at me than making music.

Speaker 1 Like, we both, like, everyone's going to have their strengths and weaknesses.

Speaker 1 And that's why like you create this partnership and it's like i hate cooking justin loves cooking so i'm gonna let him do that like i love vacuuming that man has not touched a vacuum since we've moved in together because that's my job and i love it so i'm just like i know i can't imagine thinking like i'm so much better than someone but still being with them and and then the lifestyle thing as well it's not just that you think you're better is then you go on to say these other things about

Speaker 2 her i'm sorry about him that are a quite insulting and b sound like you don't even respect his lifestyle and it doesn't align with you i like what you said about partnership this doesn't sound like a partnership no oh i feel bad for him and i really think he should break up with her i know oh my god top also honey you're gonna be a catch like i he's a catch i mean he sounds he's there's This is a good one.

Speaker 1 Like, this is a good one. And like,

Speaker 1 I don't know. I'm just like, there's so many good good dudes out there, and it's like, don't get stuck with someone who doesn't deserve your kindness.
And like,

Speaker 2 she can find someone else.

Speaker 1 It's she, yeah, let her go. Put that fish back.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Catch and release. Throw her back.
That's funny. Top comment: mate, put aside what she says for a second.

Speaker 1 She's willing to go visit a male friend six hours away, but unwilling to visit you an hour away ever.

Speaker 1 That should have been the end right there.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And that's true.
And that is a little suspicious. Like, I get why it caused a fight.

Speaker 2 I guess it's like, oh, I don't know. I'm like, does she not have a car? Like, I kind of understand if they see each other every weekend.
And, like, I have a really close male friend.

Speaker 2 And to be fair, like, I went and saw him in Paris and like, it was great. I didn't fly there to see him.

Speaker 2 And, you know, me and my boyfriend did do long distance, but there wasn't a sense of like, we did it evenly. So there wasn't a suspicion around me going and hanging out with a male friend.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think that's that's the thing where it's like, okay, it's you're willing to do effort for this, but not for me. Yeah.
So what you care about that person more and want to see them more.

Speaker 1 I think that's very, very telling in relationships, in friendships.

Speaker 1 It's like, if you're the friend that's always willing to like drive over to their house and pick them up, but yet like you're heading back from dinner and they refuse to drop you off at your house even, like.

Speaker 1 That's not an equal relationship. Like that stuff drives me nuts.
Like, yeah. And it's like, again, it goes back to that thing.
It's like, why do you do nice things for people?

Speaker 1 Like, it shouldn't be expected that it's reciprocated. But it's still like, you want things to feel balanced.
You want it to feel fair.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And also, it sounds like there's resentment there.

Speaker 2 I think any kind of resentment like that doesn't tend to go away.

Speaker 1 No, it just

Speaker 2 like, I feel a bit suspicious about this male friend.

Speaker 1 And we're all entitled to have friends of who we want, but like, where it's like, you won't ever take an hour trip to go visit your boyfriend, but you'll get on a plane. 12 hour round.
12 hours.

Speaker 1 Did you hear that? Is that someone that you

Speaker 1 have been pining for?

Speaker 2 Male-female friendships, baby.

Speaker 1 There's that study.

Speaker 1 There's that stunning.

Speaker 2 It doesn't apply to everyone, but definitely applies to a few.

Speaker 1 A lot of comments of support on this one. There's another one that says, OP, this is a scathing observation from her point of view about you and your relationship.

Speaker 1 If she thinks she will resent you in the future, then that means that the seeds of that resentment are already planted in her mind.

Speaker 1 She thinks that she won't be happy with you in the future due to your income. I think she's still with you because she's not ready to have kids yet.

Speaker 1 When she thinks that she needs to start having kids will be the time when she'd break up with you to find a suitable partner to have kids with.

Speaker 1 So I think, in other words, you are a placeholder and the man right now because you keep her happy. The question is, what does she do to make you happy?

Speaker 1 Dun dun dun.

Speaker 1 And then they go on to like talk about, like, again, that travel and that trip. And they go, this is very concerning.
She's willing to buy a plane ticket. Guessing that's not cheap.

Speaker 1 Go through the hassle of going through the airport, fondled by TSA, fly for 12 hours on red eyes, both flights, just to see a friend. And she's not willing to make some minimal efforts to visit you.

Speaker 1 That should tell you where her priorities are. I agree.
This is the worst possible way for him to find out that she's cheating on him. Oh,

Speaker 2 big assumption, but not that big.

Speaker 1 The shoe falls.

Speaker 2 At least she hasn't done it recently since she didn't end up going on that trip.

Speaker 1 She didn't end up going. Yeah.
I think, honestly, I think maybe she's not cheating, but more so, like, if the opportunity arose, she would. I think it goes back to that.

Speaker 1 Like, maybe she was friend zoned or maybe they were friends with benefits in the past and she's hoping there's a chance, but, you know, she's willing to maintain at least a friendship to keep the door open.

Speaker 2 I think also there's a sense of emotional cheating.

Speaker 2 Like she's not sharing her feelings with her partner, but she'll share them like, but she'll go on this beautiful weekend with her friend, which she should be entitled to do, but she should also

Speaker 2 want to wanting to be sharing that with the person that she, I'm hoping, loves.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 we have an update.

Speaker 2 Oh my God, she's pregnant.

Speaker 2 I just had to say it. What?

Speaker 1 Yeah, we're done. Oh, good job.
Sorry, it wasn't the dramatic ending. Some may have been looking for, but I did bring up what I saw.
She cried and said she didn't mean it, etc. And that was about it.

Speaker 1 Thanks for the people reminding me I'm a catch, because it seems like I forgot that for a bit, but I'll probably wait a bit before dating again, so I won't be able to see how true that is for a while.

Speaker 1 Small edit, she didn't go on that 12-hour round trip flight because I called her out. She cheated in the past, but not on me that I know of.

Speaker 1 And for the people saying I'm cooked or things like that for waiting this long, I had very important tests to take, so I didn't want the additional drama until they were over.

Speaker 1 So it's not like I read it and was going to let it slide. Because people were calling him out to be like, he saw those texts 42 days ago and he still hasn't broken up with her.

Speaker 2 I'm sorry, this man sounds incredibly healthy and mature.

Speaker 1 Very in touch with himself.

Speaker 1 I love him. He's like, I'm not going to date for a while.

Speaker 2 Mate, I love this guy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is a good vibe. Also, like,

Speaker 2 he did the right thing for him. He's allowed to wait.

Speaker 1 He's allowed to wait. Allowed to wait.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 And he takes his education seriously.

Speaker 1 I know.

Speaker 2 That sounds like a man who's going to make more than 130.

Speaker 1 But he's going to have a doctorate. Yeah.
Like, go ahead, son.

Speaker 1 He's got a bright future. Yeah, he does.
And she does, too. She'll find her person.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 To be fair, I don't think she did anything wrong. Like, it wasn't nice.

Speaker 1 It was quite cool.

Speaker 1 But it was shitty.

Speaker 2 It was to her sister, you know.

Speaker 1 Well, and the sister was the one that technically said, you're out of his league. And she just said, I agree.
Yeah. But still agreeing to that.

Speaker 1 And then hammering home he eats like shit i wouldn't want kids even if i did want kids it wouldn't be with him like ouch yeah you're totally right you're totally right bye bye felicia bye felicia bye

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Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 I think we have time for this crazy one and then a little bit of a palette cleanser.

Speaker 2 Okay, let's do it.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 How do you feel about the concept of work wife, work husbands?

Speaker 2 See, my boyfriend has a work husband.

Speaker 1 Ooh.

Speaker 2 I feel like if he had a work wife, I'd be a little bit like

Speaker 1 suspicious.

Speaker 2 He'd be suspicious, but I'm sure she'd be lovely. And I'm sure I know he would never do anything.
But there is definitely like a feeling of like, ah,

Speaker 2 don't a lot of relationships start at work.

Speaker 1 I have gone down the rabbit hole of this recently of like how many affairs actually start at work. Like, we've had a couple of different stories that have like brought it up and the stats on it is

Speaker 1 insanely high. Insanely high.
I'm just going to Google it so I don't like miss quotes.

Speaker 2 Like this, I think it's the third highest way that people meet.

Speaker 1 85% of affairs outside of marriage start at work.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no.

Speaker 2 I believe it.

Speaker 1 I fully believe it. What? 85%?

Speaker 1 Yeah, no. Also, we didn't talk about this.
Like,

Speaker 1 I've had no story to bring it up, but I had one on Patreon that, like, again, I brought up. And I found out this stat that

Speaker 1 one in 10

Speaker 1 men, like this was a heterosexual study.

Speaker 1 One in 10 men, so 10% of men will cheat on their pregnant partner.

Speaker 1 Rocked my world.

Speaker 2 No, that makes me so sad.

Speaker 1 I never would have guessed that that stat was 10%. Like, never.
I would have said one in 100.

Speaker 2 Yeah, probably even lower.

Speaker 1 Like, I, maybe one in a thousand. Like, I never would have guessed that stat.

Speaker 2 10%?

Speaker 1 There's a lot of studies coming out on it now. And this one psychologist has really

Speaker 1 analyzed it and he wrote a book on it. What's the psychologist's name?

Speaker 2 I need to read his stuff to just make me feel terrible about the state of the world, obviously.

Speaker 1 The psychologist is Robert Rodriguez. He is the author of What's Your Pregnant Man Thinking?

Speaker 1 So apparently, according to him, 10% of fathers to be cheat on their partners during pregnancy. Oh my God.

Speaker 2 I'm never getting pregnant.

Speaker 1 I don't want to.

Speaker 1 I just like going to keep my relationship and feed my baby. I never, just the stats around that.
And so like 10%, that 85% of affairs start at work.

Speaker 1 Like not saying all of your partners are going to cheat, right? Not saying that. But of the affairs that people have outside of their marriage, 85% start at work.

Speaker 2 I want to know how many people don't cheat on their partners.

Speaker 1 I would be really...

Speaker 2 Please say it's more than 50. It probably isn't because that's higher than like the divorce rate.

Speaker 2 Yeah, come on. We need to know.

Speaker 1 We need some hope. Yeah.

Speaker 1 According to a YouGov poll, around 63% of Americans who have been in monogamous relationships report that they have never cheated on their partner. Meaning, a majority of people don't cheat.

Speaker 1 Yeah, thank gosh. There's hope, guys.

Speaker 2 I've never cheated. Have you? No.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there we go.

Speaker 1 One

Speaker 1 of them. Yeah, me too.

Speaker 1 Okay, so work wife. This is coming from True Off My Chest,

Speaker 1 four days old. My husband doesn't see how his work wife is trying to destroy our marriage.

Speaker 1 I, 31 female, am at my wit's end with my husband's 32 male coworker, Sarah, Sarah, 30 female, and his complete inability to see what's happening.

Speaker 1 I'm not usually one for Reddit, but I need to know if I'm crazy here. Where do I even start? Three years ago, my husband Mark started working with Sarah.
At first, I tried to be welcoming.

Speaker 1 I invited her to our barbecues, included her in group outings, and genuinely tried to be friendly. Big mistake.
She spent the entire time making backhanded comments about everything from my career.

Speaker 1 Oh, you're just a yoga instructor? How peaceful to my cooking? Quote, I guess not everyone can master basic seasoning.

Speaker 1 Bitch.

Speaker 1 The real problem is, is that Mark thinks she's just being funny. Last month, she literally threw away the anniversary mug I gave him because it clashed with the office aesthetic.

Speaker 1 When I got upset, Mark said I was being too sensitive and that, quote, Sarah just has high standards for office decor.

Speaker 1 It was a mug with our wedding photo on it.

Speaker 1 Oh my God. Some greatest hits from Sarah.
And these are in bullet points. She scheduled a mandatory work dinner on our anniversary.

Speaker 1 She convinced Mark not to take a promotion because it would mean working with a different team.

Speaker 1 She posts daily photos of them together with hashtags like hashtag work power couple, hashtag work spouse. She tells everyone at their office that she, quote, takes better care of him than I do.

Speaker 1 She changed his coffee order and now tells everyone she trained him right. The worst part? My husband is completely blind to all of this.

Speaker 1 Yesterday, he actually told me about how Sarah said our new house, which we spent months searching for, was charming in a starter home kind of way. He repeated this while laughing.

Speaker 1 I tried to talk to him about it, but Sarah has convinced him I'm just insecure. She's managed to insert herself in every aspect of our lives.
They text constantly, even on weekends.

Speaker 1 She knows his schedule better than I do. She rearranged his entire desk and office wardrobe because his style was too suburban husband.

Speaker 1 That's what he is.

Speaker 1 Last week, I suggested marriage counseling. He looked genuinely confused.

Speaker 1 He, of course, went and talked to Sarah about it, and I found out from another coworker that she's been telling people that Mark and I are going through a rough patch and that she's just being a good friend by giving him someone to talk to.

Speaker 1 We weren't going through anything until she started this nonsense. The breaking point? I stopped by his office to surprise him with lunch.

Speaker 1 I know, I know, but it was his birthday and Sarah was supposedly out sick. Guess who was there? Sarah.

Speaker 1 She had miraculously recovered and brought him a cake that said, To my work hubby, with a photo of them from the office holiday party. She saw me and said,

Speaker 1 Oh, Amy, you came too.

Speaker 1 How nice. Mark, you didn't tell me your real wife was coming.
I'm not crazy, right? This woman is trying to destroy my marriage while my husband stands there grinning like it's all some big joke.

Speaker 1 What do I do? Divorce seems extreme, but I'm running out of options here.

Speaker 2 A moment of silence.

Speaker 1 Divorce might be the best option here.

Speaker 2 Sarah needs to back the fuck off.

Speaker 1 I think Sarah's going to get what she wants, to be honest.

Speaker 2 I do as well, mainly because he just like can't see it.

Speaker 1 I honestly think he does see it. I think he does and he likes it.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 That's what I'm scared about.

Speaker 1 I think he's got a crush on Sarah. I wouldn't be surprised if they're banging already.

Speaker 2 Me neither. I'm sorry, but the

Speaker 2 thing that got me was the photos every single day. I don't even post photos of my actual

Speaker 1 anything every single day.

Speaker 2 So, firstly, this woman is just trying to like say to the world, this is happening. She's trying everything to make this happen.
And I think that he is kind of mainly probably leading them both on.

Speaker 2 And you know what? Let's let's, Sarah aside, this is your husband. Yes.
And you two are meant to be in love, and you two are meant to have a partnership.

Speaker 2 And he is not respecting that you are coming to him earnestly saying, This makes me insecure. He's like, I just don't see it.

Speaker 2 Okay, you don't need to see it because I've communicated to you that this is how I feel.

Speaker 1 And respect my feelings. Yeah.
Are my feelings not more valuable to you than

Speaker 1 your coworker? Yes. The fact that he didn't take a promotion

Speaker 1 to the point where it's starting, it's actually starting to like detriment his career. It's detrimenting his personal life.
It's impacting all areas of this man's life.

Speaker 1 But he wanted to be around this woman so much that he didn't take a promotion because it would mean not working with her.

Speaker 2 Some people like will literally take promotions, even if it means being away from their spouse. But this man had to stay close to his work wife.

Speaker 2 Like that doesn't make sense. I'm sorry.
I do think that Sarah's going to get what she wants. I don't think divorce is the option.

Speaker 2 I think that she seriously needs to sit down and say, almost an ultimatum, like, do you, you want a work wife or do you want a real wife? Yeah. Like, as Sarah said, poor Amy.

Speaker 1 I know. And I'm like, a lot of people,

Speaker 1 I love that you bring up ultimatums because, like, a lot of people are like, ultimatums are bad.

Speaker 1 But I kind of struggle with like, okay, what's the difference between an ultimatum and just setting a firm boundary?

Speaker 2 And a choice.

Speaker 1 And it's like, it's not like she's not giving him a choice. It's, it's literally, here's your choices.
Because as of right now, our relationship is suffering. I'm being constantly disrespected.

Speaker 1 And like, it's at everything is at my expense. Yeah.
Like, of course, he doesn't want to set a boundary with her because he enjoys this attention. He enjoys this flirting at work.

Speaker 2 But it's, you know what, back to this ultimatum thing.

Speaker 2 Why not in this situation? It does honestly seem like he has to choose

Speaker 2 because the person who loses is his wife. She is losing in this situation and she will continue to lose until either

Speaker 2 like it's his responsibility to acknowledge her feelings and get a grip and either move away from Sarah or cut off some kind of contact, find a new job, maybe take that promotion.

Speaker 2 Like that marriage sounds doomed if it continues the way that it does. Yeah.
And then, you know, Sarah, it also just sounds like he might find someone even,

Speaker 1 I don't know, maybe he'll find a new work wife and sarah's gone like i know and i i also think like sarah only wants what she can't have i'm like if these two did get divorced would sarah even be interested i don't know i'm also curious about sarah's relationship status like is she dating or is she literally trying to swoop in like if she's single that would scare me because if if like tom had a

Speaker 2 Tom had like a single female friend who was doing this, I can't imagine being with him if he didn't listen to me. No, the disrespect from that as well.

Speaker 1 That is what's so boggling to me. It's like, you guys are married.
I've had boyfriends that have dumped girlfriends of theirs because of how they treated me, boyfriends,

Speaker 1 who like ended up cheating on me, but still found that their friend was more disrespectful to me. They found that more disrespectful than cheating.

Speaker 1 So they were willing, like, you know, I'm like, that math. I'm like, they were willing to cut off female friends because of how they treated me.

Speaker 1 And her husband won't. Yeah.
And at the end of the day, it's like, is Sarah a big problem? Yeah, but he might be worse.

Speaker 2 I agree with you.

Speaker 1 100%.

Speaker 1 Top comment on this one.

Speaker 1 You have a husband problem. Go to counseling and get professional help to communicate your concerns.

Speaker 1 Remind him that he's married to you, not Sarah, so her opinions shouldn't matter when it comes to your marriage. Good luck, but be prepared for the worst.

Speaker 1 agree. I agree with that statement.
Next comment down. Yeah, this guy isn't oblivious.
He's complicit. He knows what's happening and he likes the attention.

Speaker 1 He is happy to let his girlfriend disrespect his wife.

Speaker 2 That's literally what you were saying though.

Speaker 1 It's true. They're dating.

Speaker 1 They're basically dating.

Speaker 2 They're like Christian dating. Like they're not kissing or like touching or maybe having sex or maybe they are, but they're like doing all the cute couple things.

Speaker 1 They are Mormon dating. They're Mormon dating.
Aren't they?

Speaker 1 Like, oh, you're on it.

Speaker 2 She's got him like a birthday cake.

Speaker 1 A cake with their picture on it.

Speaker 2 From the Christmas party.

Speaker 1 Where was the wife at the Christmas party?

Speaker 2 Why wasn't she there?

Speaker 1 I hate her.

Speaker 2 Actually, I don't hate her. I hate him.

Speaker 1 I hate him. I might hate him more.
Yeah. I don't like them both, but I really don't like him.

Speaker 2 Yeah, like Sarah's, it's not Sarah's relationship. Like, I still think she's not great, but.

Speaker 1 well, guess what?

Speaker 2 Oh, my God, an update. We have an update.
Tell me, tell me, tell me.

Speaker 1 Hi, I posted a few days ago. I really didn't expect my post to blow up.
I got so overwhelmed by all the comments that I haven't responded to any. I want to address everyone who says it's fake.

Speaker 1 I understand why you think that, but this is my personal hell. I only listened to Reddit stories on TikTok, but when this reached its boiling point, I just needed a place to talk.

Speaker 1 So I made an account and tried to yell into the void. Well, the void turned out to be less empty than I thought.
Now to why everyone is here. The update.

Speaker 1 Before I talked to my husband, 32 male, I decided to do some investigation.

Speaker 1 She went through his phone. I'm so scared.
I haven't read this. I'm so scared.
Oh my God. I started with his phone and read all of the messages between him and Sarah.
She bad-mouthed me a few times.

Speaker 1 He did nothing to defend me, but didn't engage either. She was flirty.
He wasn't really flirty back. They talked a lot, and he praised her frequently for her work ethic and intelligence.

Speaker 1 I didn't see anything about cheating. I checked his email.
Nothing. I checked his work email.
Nothing. I looked through our other devices.
Nothing. I searched high and low for a second phone.
Nothing.

Speaker 1 Everything I found was always dancing that line. Nothing was outright cheating.
But here are the things I found that did hurt my feelings. Bullet point number one.

Speaker 1 He has lunch with her and only her every day in the office. They don't really like anyone else, so they'll criticize others and say, Let's talk more at lunch.
They're serving XYZ today.

Speaker 1 Next, he'd say things like, quote, I'm sure if you were a wife, you would XYZ. He always kept it as a wife and not my wife, but it still upset me.

Speaker 1 She admitted to breaking the mug on purpose. He didn't get upset with her, just said, Yeah, the photo gifs are kind of corny.

Speaker 1 Ouch!

Speaker 1 Ouch!

Speaker 1 That sucks. There was, I think, there was like a little edit on the bottom of the original post.
Now that I'm peeking, I'm like, wait, mug.

Speaker 1 Edit to add, I should have told the mug story in its entirety. She accidentally broke the mug.
I noticed it was gone when I was visiting him one day and asked him about it.

Speaker 1 He said she accidentally knocked it over. And then later, he repeated a joke she made about how it didn't fit in with the office aesthetic.

Speaker 2 So she broke the mug.

Speaker 1 She broke it on purpose. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 She's a bit corny. I'm sorry that someone who loves you is corny.
I'm sorry. That's so bad.
That's so terrible for you. Do you need to see a doctor?

Speaker 1 She's miserable. Yeah.
She's actually miserable. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So is he, Dick?

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. I confronted him.
I laid it all out. And while he wasn't upset, he did try to brush it off.
He said I was being sensitive and overreacting.

Speaker 1 I told him if we didn't have a real conversation about this, I would file for divorce. That got his attention, and he sat down with me.

Speaker 1 He admitted that at first, he found it odd that Sarah was trying so hard. He saw her trying hard with all the men in the office.
The more attention she gave him, the more he enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 And the more he responded, the more attention she gave, until she just had her sights on him.

Speaker 1 He knew some of the other men were envious, and he liked that too. He admitted that eventually he just got in too deep.

Speaker 1 He said he knew it was wrong, but had gotten addicted to the attention and didn't want her to move on to another man.

Speaker 1 So he indulged her sometimes at my expense. He said it was just nice to have two women in the two major parts of his life, stating that he knew we'd rarely see one another, so what was the harm?

Speaker 1 He reiterated that he never, ever physically cheated with her, but admitted it could be called an emotional affair. Could.
It was painful. I won't hide that.
I mean, really painful.

Speaker 1 Like, I wasn't enough. I told him from this point on, he needed to stop communicating with Sarah and ask to be transferred or switch jobs altogether.
Now, folks, I mean it when I tell you this.

Speaker 1 He

Speaker 1 lost his shit.

Speaker 1 He began raising his voice, saying things like he never cheated, it was all above board, and I couldn't control who he talked to at work. He called me a narcissist, a control freak.

Speaker 1 He told me I had no idea how hard it was, how much stress he had in the office, and that his personal relationship with Sarah helps a lot. Taking it away would just damage his mental health.

Speaker 1 It got so bad that I started crying. I couldn't take it anymore, and I decided to leave.
I packed a small bag and called my mother-in-law. She's the only family I have.

Speaker 1 And I gave her a rundown of what was going on, and she offered her home to me. I'm staying here and just hoping my husband calms down so we can revisit this.
I want to work it out.

Speaker 1 I love him him more than anything. I will try harder to answer comments on this post, and I will definitely update if something new happens.

Speaker 1 This has been really therapeutic and makes me feel less alone.

Speaker 1 My sweet girl.

Speaker 2 My sweet girl. The anger, that rage,

Speaker 2 that really shows where he's true. Like, he's bullshitting.
Like, he is.

Speaker 2 He is lying, that it doesn't mean anything. And it was never physical cheating.

Speaker 2 It could be emotional cheating. He's had more anger about you saying you can't see him than empathy or sadness about you saying you're going to get a divorce.

Speaker 1 That right there. Literally.
He's more worried about losing Sarah than losing you. Yeah.
That's what that whole freak out just showed.

Speaker 1 And the way he just like instantly went to attacking her, you're a narcissist. You're this, you're this.
You're like.

Speaker 1 Because I'm tired of being disrespected. You just admitted the problem.

Speaker 1 You said you're addicted to it you agreed or admitted it was an emotional affair yeah so why would i allow you to continue with an emotional affair he wants to have his cake and eat it too and he's like why won't you let me do that he's like this big baby he's like this toddler who's like i want it i want it i want it no that's not what adulthood is about that's not what marriage is about i also feel for her that she only has her mother-in-law um that's really rough i know that she doesn't have the support system that i'm assuming he has so i hope she's got some friends.

Speaker 1 I hope she's got like

Speaker 1 another village that isn't just family. Yeah.
And mother-in-law is on her side. We have a comment from just 23 hours ago that, like, mother-in-law is on my side, told me point blank, he is wrong.

Speaker 1 However, she doesn't want to get in the middle because she doesn't want to damage the relationship with either one of us. Yeah.
But I'm welcome as long as I want to stay there.

Speaker 1 As for my husband, he has tried to reach out. He's called, left messages, texted.
I let him know I was safe and left it at that. He will message or call every few hours, but we haven't talked.

Speaker 2 Where's the flowers? Where's the redundancy? Where's the new job applications?

Speaker 1 That don't sorry. Don't come at me unless you're ready to make a change.
I'm sorry. Calling someone is easy.

Speaker 2 Doing something about the situation that is causing your spouse deep emotional distress. That's the hard thing and that's the thing he needs to be doing.

Speaker 1 Well, and the thing is, it's like

Speaker 1 you want a work wife. And I get it.
Like, we spend half of our lives at work, right?

Speaker 1 You want a work wife and you want the real thing. But when your work wife is now hurting your real life, like

Speaker 1 you can survive at a job without having an emotional affair with a coworker. It's called friends.
Yeah. Literally.
Like, make some fucking friends at work.

Speaker 2 And you know how the thing was, he was like, she was saying how neither of them like anyone.

Speaker 1 That's toxic.

Speaker 2 That's so toxic, but I can just imagine like all the rumors going on in that office.

Speaker 1 Oh, everyone thinks they're having an affair. That's why, that's why other co-workers are reaching out to the wife.

Speaker 2 Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 They feel bad for her.

Speaker 2 They feel bad for the wife.

Speaker 1 That's why they're reaching out. They're being like, damn, if this was my husband, no way, no way in hell.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I'm so sorry. I hope she leaves him.
I think. But she can do it.
What's best for their marriage, you know?

Speaker 1 I know. And she really said, she's like, I want to work it out.
I want to go to therapy. I want to try to fix this.
I love him.

Speaker 1 But you also need to love yourself. And if he's not willing to work through this and if he's not willing to make steps to change this behavior, you got to go because he doesn't love you.

Speaker 2 Bingo. That's what I was about to say.
He does not love you. At least, not in the way that you love him.

Speaker 1 He loves himself more, but he wants to have that cake and eat it too. Yeah.
And he's not willing to make a sacrifice. Air quotes there.
Like,

Speaker 1 I'm baffled. I'm baffled.
I'm baffled, but I've kept you here long enough. I'm going to lighten the mood with one more because I find this amazing.

Speaker 2 Oh, yay. I'm so excited.

Speaker 1 Okay, this one is coming from relationship advice. It is titled, My 19 Female Boyfriend, 22 Male, Has a Pirate Ship Bed and Refuses to Change It.
Help.

Speaker 1 Yes, you read that correctly. My 22-year-old boyfriend had a replica of the black pearl as his bed.
We're both in college currently. I live in a dorm while my boyfriend has his own apartment.

Speaker 1 Out of respect for my roommate, I sleep over at my boyfriend's place instead of him sleeping in my bed since our dorm room isn't that big.

Speaker 1 I love the black pearl and I think it's cute, but we need a real bed at this point. I asked him if we could think about getting a new bed, but he said it would ruin the aesthetic of the room.

Speaker 1 I even offered to chip in, but he declined. We're not big people, but the twin-size mattress does not work.
My boyfriend is 6'3 and hangs off of the mattress.

Speaker 1 That's my current situation at the moment. I'm headed over to the Black Pearl now.
Wish me luck.

Speaker 2 Oh, I'm sorry. I love.

Speaker 2 Let your boyfriend be a little bit of a dog.

Speaker 1 I love that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think that's cute. Like, let him grow up when he's ready.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 I actually think that's really nice. I think I love like when my partner has weird quirks and weird hobbies.
And like, if it's the bed, I'm sure it's frustrating, but like, let him be who he is.

Speaker 2 It's cute.

Speaker 1 In the long run. In the long run.
Is it going to work? If he refuses, refuses, right?

Speaker 1 Like you guys move out, you get a house or an apartment or whatever together, and he refuses to get rid of that bed. I don't know what you're going to do.

Speaker 1 I think at that point, you have to hire like a carpenter and make like a custom one. An even bigger one.
An even bigger one.

Speaker 2 That'd be a nice Valentine's Day present.

Speaker 1 I'm like, you could do that. Do you want to see a picture of it?

Speaker 2 Oh my God, yes. I really do.
Hey, but also, like,

Speaker 2 I think when they move in together, I like when my boyfriend's a bit of a dog. Like, I like that he's a bit of a a nerd.

Speaker 1 It's cute.

Speaker 2 I, I really thought this was fake.

Speaker 1 No, OP is in the comments. Um, this is a picture of the bed.
Apparently, it was from Costco.

Speaker 1 It has, it's a full boat. Like, if you think about one of those baby boats that have oars on it, it's one of those, but with a bed frame in it.
But then they retrofitted it.

Speaker 1 So it's got like a captain's wheel, like the ship's wheel at the front of the bed.

Speaker 2 It's like a full, it's surrounded. So it's not just the headboard.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 It's the full bed is

Speaker 2 in a ship. It's in the boat.
It's in a boat.

Speaker 1 So, like, I'm like, you could get another one and just push them close together, but like, you're kind of separated.

Speaker 2 It's like hold hands.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you're separated a little bit.

Speaker 2 Yeah, just take one of the walls out.

Speaker 1 But some people aren't cuddlers, and some people go so far as not sharing a bedroom with their partner because of snoring or whatever.

Speaker 2 So I'm like, when you move in together, I think it's a conversation to be had.

Speaker 2 For now, he lives alone. He's having fun.
Like, he sounds like a really sweet. I don't know.

Speaker 1 We found, okay, we find out more details. Yeah.

Speaker 1 His has a chest in the front and the back. It doesn't have the wheel.
Okay, it makes a little bit. He said his parents bought it for him at Costco when he was seven.

Speaker 1 He might have to let that go. I'm going to be honest.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I thought he bought it like with adult money. I thought, are his parents still alive? Is it sentimental?

Speaker 1 We have no mention of if parents are alive. Yeah.
Or not.

Speaker 2 I'm like, maybe it's sentimental. Maybe it's nostalgic.

Speaker 2 Maybe it is quite literally Peter Pan pan syndrome oh my god how funny is that how funny is that i know peter pan syndrome like for those of you who don't know what that is like not willing to grow up not willing to become an adult yeah

Speaker 1 see i'm conflicted i think it's not a problem until they move in together ah yeah i don't know though because i'm like have you heard that thing about men who have navy bed sheets and like oh my god and the mattress on the floor yeah yeah it's like this is this is like this is like a cooler version I mean, I think it'd be so cute if he like want, if he wants kids, if he saved it and then like his kids used it someday I think that's a really would be a great thing for her to say love that like love that I'm not asking you to get rid of it forever you know if we have a guest room we could put it in the guest room but um I would love to cuddle with you and you're 6'3 and

Speaker 2 twin beds are they're tiny what about if you just keep the headboard

Speaker 2 we can keep the headboard put it over a double bed put it over a queen bed okay i think there's this thing of like i want you to keep what makes you happy whilst also meaning that we can be a bit more comfortable I like that.

Speaker 1 I like that.

Speaker 2 I love the practical DIY solution.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I mean, OP does say she likes it.
She's like, I love the black pearl. It's cute.

Speaker 1 So it sounds really simple. They'll figure it out.
Yeah, they will. They'll figure it out.
That's not, that is probably the only story in this that doesn't make you want to say, psych. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because this episode was insane.

Speaker 2 It really was. It was insane.

Speaker 1 Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for coming on.
I feel like I'm just like, I just want to pick your brain forever.

Speaker 1 But I, of course, can't do that. So if other people are in the same boat, where can they listen? You have two amazing shows.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I have two shows, Mantra, which is like a weekly affirmation mantra show. So every week, like we'll give you a new kind of grounding thing to take away with you.
So I cultivate peace within.

Speaker 2 I need that. I deserve, like, I deserve all of you.
I need that. I know it's good, right? Like, I work hard for what I want to achieve.

Speaker 2 Like, I release the need for external validation, that kind of stuff. And we like really ground you in that and like kind of hypnotize you with words.

Speaker 1 I need that.

Speaker 2 And then the psychology of your 20s. And I feel like we go through some of these other dilemmas, but we explain the psychology behind them.

Speaker 1 I love, love that.

Speaker 1 You guys, go listen. Your life will be changed.
I literally listened to one, one clip of Gemma's earlier, and I'm like,

Speaker 1 okay, I'm healed.

Speaker 1 So check her stuff out. It will be easily linked in the description

Speaker 1 the show notes on YouTube, on the podcast side. So, just one click.
It'll be literally one click for you.

Speaker 1 But, thank you so, so, so much for being here.

Speaker 2 Thanks for having me on this rainy LA day.

Speaker 1 Oh, my gosh, I know we have to go out there.

Speaker 1 But thank you guys. Be sure to check out Patreon.
February has some amazing, amazing bonus stories, a bunch of free ones, too. There's two free ones that I just posted.
So, head on over there.

Speaker 1 But, other than that, until next time, bye.