Jumanji: CWS - Episode 950

Hello, it's the second beef and dairy episode in two weeks.

That's not normal, is it?

No, because it's not an all-time of year.

It is Max Fun Drive.

It's the time when shows on the Maximum Fund network ask their audience to contribute and to support the podcast if they feel like it.

This podcast exists because of audience support.

To those of you who already do that, thank you so much.

If you don't, I would love it if you would take a moment to consider it.

Maybe pause the podcast now, go to maximumfund.org forward slash join and sign up from $5 a month.

Think of it like giving us a tip in the same way you might tip a waiter or a taxi driver.

The show's free.

Of course it is.

It's always going to be free.

But if you enjoy it, if you love it, why not tip?

Anyway,

I'll talk about this a little bit more at the end.

But first, I'm very pleased I got to make this episode.

It's a great bit of fun.

Take it away, Michael.

Hello, I'm the poet Michael Banyan, and you're listening to the podcast Jumanji CWS.

It's a unique podcast where I ask guests whether they could have been in the film Jumanji, whether they would have been in the film Jumanji, and whether they should have been in the film Jumanji.

This episode, as always, is brought to you by our sponsor, Jumankini, a brand new Jumanji-themed bikini or mankini sent to your door every month.

Simply leave the old soiled Jumankini in the provided metal bin and wake up to a fresh Jamankini on your doorstep.

And as always, I'd like to thank Jamankini for helping me to talk to the people who could have been involved in Jumanji but weren't asked, the people who would have been involved with Jumanji had they not been unsuccessful in their application process, and the people who should have been involved with Jumanji but weren't for various reasons.

And along the way, we'll learn a little bit about ourselves.

Jumanji, CWS, CWS.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda.

Before we welcome today's guest, I'd just like to mention our upcoming live show, which is taking place at Wembley Stadium in June.

I'll be asking Hilary Rodham Clinton whether she could, would, or should have been in Jumanji, with music from Sting's brother.

At time of recording, there are only 65,000 tickets left, so get booking.

See Don Worse.

Now it's time to introduce today's guest.

Welcome, actor Roger Wescott Lamagrele.

Hello, Michael, dear fellow.

Thank you for the Jumanquini.

Oh, well, not at all.

It's all handled.

I don't actually get involved.

That's right.

You get yours straight from the factory.

So they should have that.

It had

the new musk smell of a freshly minted mankini or dew mankini.

That's right.

It's a really intense chemical smell because they're quite proud that there's not a single natural product involved either at the design or the template stage or in the final

impression from it when I put it on.

There was a strange, a sort of fizzy feeling around, well, the affected area, I must say.

That's right.

And I've still got a slight headache.

Is that normal?

Actually, I'd be more worried if you didn't.

Right.

I wonder.

Actually, yeah, because it's an intense chemical halo that surrounds it.

The halo is a wonderful word for it.

Yes.

I looked in the mirror, saw a faint green glow.

I wondered what that is.

It's not green.

It's actually a new colour.

Is it?

Yes, that's right.

It's between turquoise and vermilion.

There isn't a name for it.

No, no, there's no space between those two.

I thought there was a sort of cigarette paper's worth of space between those two colours.

But no, this is the territory we're in.

It's in there.

Yeah, there is space in between.

The things they can do today, honestly, my

remarks.

It's remarkable.

But that's why, because the eye can't interpret the visual information that emanates from the

neither can your body's immune system deal with a lot of the chemicals that are in the, certainly in the buckles.

So there's a reason that there's a don't suck these buckle stickers.

Yeah, no, I haven't been sucking the buckles.

I have been trying to maintain a normal diet, and I haven't been to the backwards toilet for three days.

Is that also to be exactly?

Again, I'd be more worried if you were going to toilet it.

Torrey were going to the toilet.

I thought it was the tightness, maybe, but no, I'm not sure that is the problem.

I think it mostly.

No, it's a diaphragmatic tightness.

Ah, I see.

So it's all sort of backed up in there, you might say.

Look, it's a brand new product.

We still don't fully understand the

implications.

No, I understand.

Well, it's my honor, my great honor, to help you to test them out.

As requested, I've not removed it for three days.

So I'll keep you updated.

Fantastic.

And actually, that does that.

I'm glad we brought we're talking about this because

I've been told to say this at least four times.

Yes.

Don't suck the buckles.

Don't suck the buckles.

Enjoy your jamankini.

Get your cheeky little gob off those buckles.

That's a fun way of saying it.

Before we begin, Michael, I must say I am a tremendous fan of this podcast.

Oh, that's lovely.

I'm not just saying that, you know.

Donatello Versace's episode, hearing her come to terms with the fact that she probably shouldn't have been in Jumanji was an enormous emotional turning point, not just in her life, but in mine.

Yes, I think, you know what?

I'm so glad you said that because that episode, I think it did affect a lot of people.

And it's one of those funny things where I think a lot of people were carrying stuff

around Donatella Versace and the film Jumanji.

And people were carrying it.

They hadn't worked it through.

And I think it's the fact, and we really identified it because we went.

deep and dark in the middle.

I remember, yes, indeed.

There was a lot of screaming.

So I think the fact that she worked that through, yeah, I think it's meant, it's been, I think in a way we always knew, a lot of us always felt we knew that she shouldn't have been in it.

But because she wasn't in it, and this is essentially, this is where I feel this podcast really starts to cook on gas and really can actually make positive change.

Because people,

because she wasn't in the film Jumanji, the fact that she shouldn't have been in it almost doesn't become a thought.

It takes a back seat, doesn't it?

Well, it does.

Because we all carry an archetypical collection of people who were in Jumanji.

Yes, of course.

Robin Williams.

Orino.

Curs and Dunce.

Yep.

But what we also carry, but unbeknownst to ourselves, are the people who weren't in it.

Yeah.

Robert De Niro.

John Goodman.

Barry Manillo.

Hans Blix, Jimmy Hoffer.

So

we carry an army, a virtual army of people that weren't in it.

But what we never do is stop to think, should they have not been in it?

Yes, yes, that's right.

Or should they?

Or should they, indeed.

And Donatello Versace, that damn broke on her.

Yeah.

And we recorded it because that, and that was.

Speaking as an actor as well, I mean, so many projects come and go.

You ask yourself, well, what would I have done with that?

Could I have done better?

But sometimes you ask yourself, should I have had that role?

And sometimes the most freeing thing is accepting that I, Roger Westcott LeMagrile, should not have played the Riddler in Batman Forever.

And you didn't.

And I didn't.

So the right thing was done.

And that's a really liberating thought to have.

It is.

Okay, well, I I think it's time to get on with the show.

Before we get to that, a mutual friend of ours asked me to say hello.

So that's what I'm saying.

Oh, yes.

Yes.

Oh, yes.

Who was that?

Benedict Cumberbatch's mum, Barbara Cumberbatch?

No.

Benedict Cumberbatch's aunt, Brenda Cumberbatch.

No.

Benedict Cumberbatch's grandmother, Bumbelina Cumberbatch?

No, though they are all beautiful women.

Sweet Bumbelina.

No, I'm talking about our mutual friend, Mark Ralance.

Mark Rylance?

That's right.

He said, make sure you say hello to Michael and suggest that the three of us, Royster Doysters, go out on the nodge some evening.

Well, um

I haven't nodged for

I've been well, I've been nodge-free for 18 months.

Oh, dear.

Well, I'm sorry to hear that.

I mean, it's it's it's a wonderful, wonderful beverage.

Uh, and um yes, Mark Rylance, uh well look, we're not actually talking at the moment.

Oh, dear.

Did something happen?

Mark can be a bit of cervic, especially after a couple of nodges.

We nodged ourselves into quite a dark place.

Nodge Oblivion?

uh well i wish no it was very much um

real full kaleidoscopic like surround sound hd roster it was the seventh circle of nodge

so roger you know the drill it's time to ask jumanji coulda ya been in it well i knew this was coming michael so i've actually brought my diaries here from the mid 90s uh my appointment's book here you can see uh So let's have a look here.

So Jumanji now.

We're looking here for...

What are we after?

It was filmed probably end of 94.

Yeah, so Jumanji was filmed at the end of 94, early 95.

Let's see here.

Could I have been in Jumanji?

Now, as luck would have it, it looks like I was available.

So I just finished a run at the National playing Mary Queen of Scots.

So was that job finished by the time Jumanji started?

It looks like it was actually

throughout the summer I was filming a handful of adverts for a popular brand of anti-flatulance yogurts.

But apart from that I was I was absolutely free.

Was that the Guffaway Peach range?

Guffaway Peach, yes, well Beach, Strawberry, Kumquat.

There was a range of them.

Obviously I was in different costumes for each advert.

I'm remembering the ad.

Yes.

You were dressed as a strawberry, but you were wearing underpants.

Oh yes, strawberry with underpants over the top.

That was right.

Because then the strawberry says, oh no, not again.

And then

you see the underpants sort of billow out like a sail.

And then reach for the yoghurt.

That's right.

Thank God for Guffaway.

I remember exactly.

Thank God for Guffaway.

I've got a dry gusset.

Come quote May.

And then William Shatner came in, dressed as a kumquat.

That's right.

And started hitting me with a stick.

Yeah,

he did.

It was not meant to be that way in the shoot.

He was just supposed to come in, put his arm around me and say, no need to toot when you're high on this fruit.

Yeah.

And but he it was a very dark time for Bill.

His later Star Trek film sequels had not

had the cultural impact he might have hoped.

And of course he just found out that the whole Star Trek universe was fictional.

Yes, and that was a real blow, as you can imagine.

I mean, all those worlds saved were gone in an instant.

Can you imagine if someone suddenly said, this entire podcast you've made is fictional?

I tell you what,

I'd hit you with a stick probably.

Exactly, exactly.

So there I am.

He's sitting about me.

I mean, and you know what it's like to film a baby.

You don't, when you're filming an advert, you know, it's very quick.

It's fast.

Set up, action, cut, you know, very, very fast.

Of course.

And it was the 90s, so they had to just roll with whatever was filmed.

They didn't have digital technology to do more than one take, did they?

Exactly.

And I mean, I was due to knock off at five, so I wasn't going to do another take after that, as well as the fact that he'd broken both of my legs.

But, you know, it's the rough and tumble of filming, isn't it?

We shook hands at the end of the day as they stretched me off.

Well, of course, it's all just part of an actor's life, isn't it?

This stuff.

Yes.

So the fact is, you're just on a West End run, you'd been injured by William Shatner during the filming of a flatulence for a yogurt, yes, uh, ad.

But dates-wise, could you have made this work?

Yes, I suppose I had had both of my legs broken, but um, you doctor theater, you get over these things, don't you?

So, I suppose, yes, yes, I could have been in Jumanji.

It's a could

Coulda.

Jumanji, CWS, CWS.

You coulda have been in the film of Jumanja.

So we've established that you could have done it.

But would you have been in the film Jumanji?

If you could have, which we've established you could have been.

In it.

It.

Yes, well, I pondered this, obviously, loving the show as I do, and looking back over my own career.

At that time, I was very, very wary about any engagement with Hollywood, you know, because the absolute frenzy there was for motion capture.

It still carries on to this day, if you didn't realize,

quite often.

You know the film Avatar?

Well, you may not know Avatar, but you know the film Avatar to The Way of Water.

Yes, I do.

The blue creature people,

those are motion-captured actors.

You may not realise, but underneath those blue cat lizards are human actors.

You know what?

I assume they were just people that have been wearing the dramankini for a couple of weeks.

Is that an effect that it's a matter of fact?

It can be a pallor.

Right.

Well, no,

unless I've been seriously misled.

Those are real human actors that have a special computer dot.

I don't know quite how it works, but as I understand it, they put dots all over you.

And in each of those dots is a computer that can understand your acting and then use that to create a computer man who will imitate your behavior exactly.

So I'd had many many experiences like this.

I'd not long before been in the film Jurassic Park as Sam Neal.

And of course I go to the cinema.

They didn't invite me to the premiere, which I already thought was a bit strange.

So you played Sam Neal, didn't you?

I played Sam Neil.

So I turn up, you know, I say, well, I hear the film's out.

Next thing I hear about it, I'm filming the whole thing, waving the flare, all that business.

And then I hear, oh, it's out now.

Reviews are through absolutely gangbusters, it's through the roof.

Box Office Gold.

I think that's strange.

They never invited me to the premiere.

They never told me it was some general release.

So I go to see it, and what have they done?

but put Sam Neal over my performance using computer graphics.

So this left a very sour experience

with me.

I thought that, and I played three of the Velociraptors and Laura Tern.

So this had left a real sour taste in my mouth, vis-a-vis working in Hollywood.

And I'd really resigned myself at that time, the mid-90s, to appearing exclusively on the British stage and in a number of unbearably depressing British television television dramas and nothing else, really.

Of course, you were in Screaming Mildred.

Screaming Mildred, of course, who the woman who is addicted to everything.

And you were in Mortifa Roy?

More T for Roy as well, one of the most harrowing post-nuclear dramas ever produced in this country.

And of course, where the fuck is Barnaby?

Where the fuck is Barnaby?

We still don't know where the fuck Barnaby was.

Well, that was the point, wasn't it?

No, indeed, because, I mean, it was just a shot of a rusty watering can for three hours

narrated over by Tom Stoppard, reading out various parts of the highway code.

And of course, you mo capped the watering can, didn't you?

Yeah, that was another disappointment for me, was just being, you know, they said just sit there while Tom reads over your image.

I thought, well, you know, at least it's good exposure for me, the image being used, you know, association with Stoppard.

And then I watch it, and blooming watering can CGI'd over my face and arms.

I did think it was strange.

They wanted me to sort of cock one arm

perched against my hip and another sort of raised in a sort of fascist salute to the other side.

And then that all became clear why they wanted that when I saw the eventual programme.

And of course,

it was only later that you discovered it wasn't actually written by Tom Stoppard.

No.

It was written by

a writer with a similar name, wasn't it?

It was written by Tomst

Oppard.

Not particularly good writer.

No, Tomst Oppard, he was known across the fringe theatres of the city for extremely mediocre plays.

Yes.

And well, there's a lot of actors that have fallen into this at the time.

There was a lot of writers with similar names because

there was also Tomsto Poppard.

And this sort of copycat movement in the theatre was really because the star system, you know, it's people go for the name.

So if you run Tomst Oppard's name together, as they did at the Old Red Lion around that time,

then it looks like Tom Stoppard.

And the kerning on that's slightly off.

They've run the name together, but you still think, well, fundamentally, it's Tom Stoppard.

That's right.

It was especially bad when

men I used to know, not know, no longer, Brian B.

Lessid was cast in Tomst Oppard's seminal work,

Brenda's Banquet.

Well, he thought he was going to be playing alongside Sigourney Weaver, but he was playing alongside a, I think it was like a Sigo.

Yeah, exactly, a Swedish actress.

Sigo Orn Roo.

Sigo on Rivoir.

Rivoir, exactly.

And so this, people were frightened to buy a ticket anymore.

They were throwing the theatre.

You simply didn't know what you were buying.

No, is this Tomst Oppard or Tomst Oppard?

Have you seen a Towsel-haired West End playwright in the venue, or is it just Tom Stoppard, as we know, is a very portly gentleman?

He could barely hold a pen.

He's not a good writer.

I mean, you would always know him by the trail of discarded biros that he'd left clumsily in his wake.

But that was how you could tell that you were seeing a really authentic Tom Stoppard play.

And you notice the emphasis I've had to put on that.

Because

that started to affect your acting, didn't it?

It did, yes.

Now, in the direction of our discontent,

things like that would happen to sneak in because

working with William Shatner didn't help either.

You know what he's like.

Now is the winter of our discontent.

And so pair that with the Thompson Oppard awareness campaign that was going around around the theatre at the time.

A difficult time.

It was difficult to

keep your diction and your

projection clear.

But, you know, all that said, I came in here very, very prepared to be negative about Hollywood in the 90s.

But discussing all this, it makes me realize that it wasn't all fun and games in the British theatre and television scene then, either.

Maybe I could have been tempted by the comfort, the money, craft service table of a big Hollywood production.

So, actually, I'd have to say, in the final analysis, yes, I think I would have taken a role in Jumanji.

So, you, Roger Westcott, LeMagré, hello, Wuda, been in the film Jumanji.

Wooder.

Jumanji.

C-W-S.

C-W-S.

It's a wood.

Roger Westcott Lamegrelet.

We've established that you could have done it.

And that you would have done it.

But now, a trickier question.

A question that is going to involve you maybe looking inside yourself a little bit, maybe becoming a little bit vulnerable.

Because I'm now going to ask you,

should

you have been in the film Jumanji?

It's an interesting question, isn't it?

Because, on the one hand, you know, I had all my misgivings about Hollywood, and I wonder what might have been in my career.

For one thing, I always dreamed of being one of the humans shouting, get your hands off me, you dirty ape, in the many Planet of the Apes sequels.

And could that have been affected had I been in Jumanji?

I wonder.

Roger, do you mind if I interrupt you?

So I don't.

I think the question really is: it's not so much, would it have helped your career?

Could you have gained any benefit from it?

It's more just

should.

Should you have been in Jumanji?

Oh, yes, of course.

It's always a difficult question to get to grips with your guests, isn't it?

This one?

Well, I wonder, should I have been in Jumanji?

I suppose I'd have been a positive presence on set.

I could have assisted the production.

Yeah, no, no.

Sorry.

None of that's in doubt.

It's more.

Think about that word should.

Should.

Should.

Should you have been in Jumanji?

Ideas of destiny, of

ideas of

our ultimate journey through the universe.

Yeah, should I...

Roger, you're using narratives.

You're using fake narratives to avoid the question.

Now, guests do this a lot.

Work with me, Roger.

Should you?

Yes, I am.

Should you be in Jumanji?

Should I have been in Jumanji?

It's such a huge question.

It brings to mind a...

We're not talking about questions.

We're not talking...

Should is not a question.

Should.

Should is an idea.

Should I?

You are Roger.

Need I, should I?

You are Roger Westcott Lemagleray.

What is should you?

Should you have been in Jumanji?

Should I, I am, Roger Westcott-Lemagler.

Should you?

I live on earth.

Should.

I participate.

Should you, Roger?

I have a conscience.

Go deeper, Roger.

In a unique way of

spinning.

Should you have been in Jumanji, Roger?

Yes.

Yes, I should have been in Jumanji.

Oh, Roger!

It's a yes.

Jumanji!

Banjanji!

Jumanjananji!

Jumanja Tajumanja!

Jumanji!

CWS!

C-W-S!

Roger!

Thank you, Roger.

Thank you for going there for us.

Where am I?

Oh, Michael.

Michael, I know.

Roger, you've just done so.

I've watched your performances.

What happened?

And you've never, I've never seen you go as deep as that.

I've never felt that way.

You went to the plug.

Oh.

You went down to the plug, Roger.

Oh, right down to the roots, the very bark.

Oh, God.

I now know it more than anything I've ever known in my life.

You should have been in Jumanji.

And I didn't even know that today, and neither did the producers.

Neither did I.

None of us knew whether you should have been in Jumanji.

No.

The power of this program, it's evident to me.

You know what?

I'm going to tell you something.

We knew you could have been in it.

And we actually knew you would have been been in it.

This was the meat.

This was what we wanted to get to today.

This is what I never dared ask myself.

Should I?

Should.

Should I have been in Jumanji?

Yes, Roger.

Yes.

Yes, you should have been in it.

Yes, cry.

Oh, Father.

Shout and scream and cry.

Wail.

Wail like a baby.

Because you should have been in Jumanji.

And little Roger.

Before trousers, little Roger in your little napkin.

My little napkin, I'm dead.

You should have been in Jumanji, Roger.

Try tears.

Salt tears.

Oh, Mother.

Make your chest wet.

Wet your little chest.

Mother, I never told you.

You're not the bad.

You're not naughty, Roger.

I never told you that.

You're okay.

You should have been in Jumanji.

But I never got to tell her.

Oh,

I have the regrets, there's so many.

But at the same time, I know nothing truly matters any more.

Now that I know know that I should have been Jumanji, and yet I am

Roger Westcott, LeMagli.

Yes.

Can I say you I've never seen your face look this swollen?

No, it certainly feels bulbous.

Can I use a towel, please?

Please do.

Yeah, that's a good idea.

Thank you very much.

Oh, they're Jumankini branded.

No, that's nice, isn't it?

Can I keep one of these?

You certainly can.

I have a feeling I'm going to be the whole box.

So thank you.

And that's the end of today's podcast.

A big thank you to my guest, Roger Westcott, La Maigrelay.

It's been a pleasure.

Thanks very much.

And please use those towels.

Oh, absolutely.

I'm really sweating now.

And of course, this episode would not have been possible without our friends at Juman Kini.

And remember, don't suck the buckles.

Michael, I have a confession to make.

I did briefly suck the buckles.

That might explain what's just happened.

Yeah, I'm sucking.

Can I tell you, I've been sucking, but I've been sucking the buckles non-stop.

Of you, Really nice.

They look so delicious.

So shy.

They're not, but they really want to put them in your mouth.

Yeah.

It tastes like a tart coin.

They do, don't they?

Yeah.

They've got that real alloy, they're alloy fresh.

Freshly oxidized.

Yeah.

Really zinky.

Very zinky flavor.

And please join us next week when I'll be giving the CWS treatment to gymnast Simone Biles.

Can't wait for that one.

Thank you to Henry Packer and Tom Crowley.

And Tom Crowley also made the custom artwork, the Jumanji CWS logo, which is horribly garish.

Thank you, Tom.

I love it.

And thank you for listening.

This was a special Max FunDrive episode.

I love Max FunDrive.

It's a nice time of year.

We do some fun stuff.

And also, I reflect on how good it is that so many of you have decided to support the podcast.

I just want to say a huge thank you.

I love that I can pay people like Henry and Tom to work with me to make stupid stuff like that.

Love it.

And it's all because of you guys.

You'll be sick of me saying this, but maximumfund.org forward slash join is the place to go.

Check it out.

You can see all the info there.

There's the various tiers you can sign up at, the different gifts that are available.

Everyone who signs up gets the bonus content.

That's this year's bonus content and all the ones going back as far as 2016, I think.

So if you've never been a Max Fund member before, why not try it out at just $5 a month?

Enjoy all that bonus content.

If you're already a member and you'd like to support a little more, we would certainly appreciate you upgrading your membership or just boosting it by a few dollars a month.

And I'm asking you, if it's something that you've considered and you're thinking, I'll get around to it, why not do it now before you forget?

Go to maximumfund.org forward slash join.

And obviously, I know that's not going to be possible for everyone for lots of reasons.

If you can't support with money, I'm just pleased that you're listening, very honestly.

And why not help out by spreading the word?

Tell a friend.

I know it's a hard podcast to convince someone else to listen to.

I mean, I wish I could do it.

I don't think I've worked that quite out yet, and it's almost been 10 years.

But

give it a go.

All right.

I won't harangue you about this for another year.

It'll be 2026.

And we'll all be living on Mars.

Or Venus.

Bye.

Maximum Fun, a worker-owned network of artist-owned shows supported directly by you.