Episode 95 - Dafydd, Part 2

Hello, this episode is a part two.

So, if you've not listened to part one, which is the previous episode, David, part one,

then listen to that one first.

Also, it's week two of Max Fun Drive, which is the two-week period where shows on the Maximum Fun Network, such as this one, ask their audiences whether they would consider supporting them.

Your support keeps this show going, and I want to say a huge thank you to everyone who already does this.

If you're considering it, why not go to maximumfun.org forward slash join?

Thank you.

Enjoy the show.

The Beef and Dairy Network is sponsored by Zap Broom Pro, the new million-volt cattle brush from Mitchell's.

If it's not Mitchell's, get back in the truck.

Zap Broom Pro isn't just perfect for grooming and disciplining your cattle.

Lash a headstrong and disruptive farm worker with Zap Broom Pro and watch their habitual disobedience simply spin away.

This treatment will also leave their skin silky, soft, and red.

For 10% off your first Zap Broom Pro, simply use the code TAT-TATATA Ta-Ta TouchMe.

Hello and welcome to the Beef and Dairy Network podcast, the number one podcast for those involved, or just interested, in the production of beef animals and dairy herds.

The Beef and Dairy Network podcast is the podcast companion to the Beef and Dairy Network website, as well as the printed magazine, brought to you by Zapbroom Pro.

We've been enjoying the Zapbroom Pro here in the office, but it's worth knowing that if you plug it into a regular plug and turn it up all the way, it'll cause a 24-hour blackout, reaching as far as Aylesbury.

Aylesbury!

Back in part one, we heard about how the Royal Society for the Protection of Animals took away Eli Roberts' security chimps, and also how Philip Seastrom had found happiness volunteering at a chimp sanctuary.

I wonder what will happen next.

So I'd been working in the chimp sanctuary for about a year or so,

and we found out one morning that the RSPCA were bringing in a whole new shipment of chimps,

a chimpment, as Jan likes to say.

How

common is that?

Like how many chimpments are you getting a year?

It tends to be more of a trickle, you know, because it's mainly these showbiz chimps.

So they tend to come from private donors or from the Hollywood studios or from ITV.

And

we very rarely get a call from the RSPCA saying they're bringing in actual chimps who have been through some sort of trauma, you know.

You say actual chimps, they're all chimps, but these chimps are not showbiz chimps, is what you're saying.

They're civilian chimps.

Civilian chimps is exactly what I mean.

Yeah, that's a lovely way of putting it.

Civilian chimps.

We very rarely get, you know your standard your bog standard chimps and i guess um

when you get that news that some some normal chimps are coming in yeah you've got to prepare those more showbiz chimps to meet these kind of more unwashed chimps yeah yeah exactly is that going to be a problem is that something that's going to be a problem or is that you do have to ease them in because we've had it before where a civilian chimp has turned up and seen the site that greets him the the performances the juggling uh daniel Radcliffe, and they will feel so bad.

They will have such an overwhelming lack of self-esteem that

they will feel the need to get their own talent, even though that's not been their aim in life.

They're just chimps.

They'll start trying to sing.

The celebrity chimps, unfortunately, at that point, will form a sort of jury

because we do have the...

Simon Cowell replacement chimp from American Idol.

So he'll hitch his trousers up and he'll sit in in the middle and he'll be he'll be the main.

Oh, so you end up with a kind of like Britain's Got Talent style.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So these poor chimps that really have no, have never been taught anything

and have no prospects of being a professional

and they'll just stand there trying to do this talent.

That's heartbreaking.

It really is.

And it's devastating.

And what will normally happen is, of course, they don't have a talent.

They can't, you know, they can't just pull one out in thin air.

So, you know, they'll try and they'll try and do impressions.

They'll try and sing a song, like I say, they'll do a little dance.

And then it will be three of the celebrity chimps' jobs to hold up bananas in crosses in the style of one of those shows to say, you know,

you're out.

And then the poor civilian chimp will be devastated.

And then all the celebrity chimps will then just beat them to death.

Wow.

Okay.

So, wow.

Okay.

So you really do have to be careful then when you're introducing the non-celebrity chimps in with the celebrity chimps.

Yes, you almost have to superficially strip the the celebrity chimps of their talents.

You just have to make them look like normal chimps.

For some, it's easier said than done.

We just have to hide Daniel Radcliffe because there's no getting away from the fact he really does look like the man.

Right.

But for the rest of them, you're taking away the straw boaters, the bow ties.

Gone.

Spangle jackets.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Penny farthing gone.

Gone.

Gone.

You can't even have a hint of that because these celebrity chimps really do like the limelight, so they will try and perform at every opportunity.

So we just need to introduce the civilian chimps as if they are being introduced to a normal civilian chimp sanctuary.

So, as you say, this is normally a trickle of new chimps that come in.

You can give proper time to a new chimp coming in.

You can prepare them.

You can prepare the rest of the chimps.

You can.

This wasn't the case this time, though, wasn't it?

Because I believe it was almost 50 chimps.

It was the truck full.

Yeah, it was 50 chimps, a truck full from the RSPCA.

They, well, they use Hermes

to transport them.

Oh, the the parcel company?

Yes, the parcel company Hermes.

Yeah.

Who I believe have since had to rename.

I think they've renamed now to every,

yeah, because of this.

Oh, okay.

It's the first time that they'd had to transport

any wildlife, really.

I don't know why the RSPCA decided to use them, but at least go for Parcel Force or DHL, or there's loads of other people.

Someone a bit more reliable because when

the Hermes, as it was then, driver arrived, we've got him on the ring doorbell.

He didn't even ring the bell, he just threw all the chimps over the fence.

Obviously, when you do take that kind of delivery, you can stipulate your safe space where things can be left if you're not there.

Often, you might say, just leave it in my green bin.

Yeah.

Things like that.

Had you said that?

Have you always throw them in?

The directions were too long, I think, for the delivery driver because there's so many chimps that you couldn't fit two maximum in the green bin.

So we'd had to put two in the green bin,

three in the big main bin,

four under the hedge, five or six in the gas meter box at the front.

Were you getting next door to take any in?

Next door is a is a butcher that we're not necessarily confident would look after the chimps properly, let's just say.

Okay, understand.

Yeah.

I've been in there before to try and buy something for my tea and they do just advertise everything as meat.

And have you ever asked them about the provenance of what they're selling?

Yeah, it's say, what meat is that?

And they say, and they shrug and they go, meat.

That kind of place.

Yeah.

So

I'm not going to have the Hermes driver drop off any chimps there.

Okay.

So in reality, what happened was that all the chimps were then just dumped over the fence.

Does that mean then they weren't able to go through that acclimatization process?

They were just in there.

Yeah, it certainly cut it short.

I've seen the CCTV footage, and yeah, it makes for

quite harrowing viewing.

Yeah, yeah, it's pretty harrowing because obviously one of the only people working there that day was Jan.

Now, Jan was sat at the front desk as she always is.

And just to be clear, you weren't there that day.

This was your day off.

This was my day off.

I take one day off a week, and Jan was sat at the front desk awaiting the delivery from Hermes.

I mean, can I just, I just, just before you go on, I do have to address something that has come up in some of the reporting.

The suggestion that Jan actually was listening to a true crime podcast called We Wikipedia, Your Murder

that she had become obsessed with.

And that was the reason that she missed the delivery, and it was actually her fault.

Just

that's been bubbling up online.

I think it's worth me airing that.

I mean, if you look at the ring doorbell footage, you'll see that the homie's driver does not ring the bell.

Yes, there was.

Some efforts from him to knock on the door.

He could see Jan through the big plate glass window, and Jan did have her big headphones on.

It's correct, and she was utterly engrossed.

She loves a true crime podcast, as Jan.

Or did.

So, in a way, some people are saying, well, she is very much the author of her own fate.

I think what's wonderful is, you know, we'll get on to what happened to Jan briefly, but

I think what's wonderful is, yes, when she perished, she was listening to her favorite true crime podcast.

But do now bear bear in mind that she is an episode of that same true crime podcast.

And she would have liked that.

Is that what you're saying?

She would have loved that.

She would have been thinking it, I think, as it was happening to her.

I guess you'd be thinking, like, is this a murder?

Well, I think we felt like it was a murder as well.

Did the chimps know truly what they were doing?

Or did they think they were, you know, say,

ripping a pumpkin out of the ground?

Which they would do naturally in the rainforest.

They would do naturally, you know, around same as the rest of us, October time.

They go to a pumpkin farm and they pull out a big pumpkin for

decoration.

And it did, I mean, certainly some of the footage that you can see online, they do look like they're pulling a pumpkin out of the ground.

Poking eye holes.

Poking eye holes, you know, drawing in a big smile.

You know, I don't know where they found that candle,

but they really do wrench.

They wrench like they're trying to get roots away.

Did they think they were getting a pumpkin or did did they, you know, knowingly commit a murder?

So as you say, you know, Jan's lost her life.

Was that a result of the new, was it the new chimps doing that, or was that the celebrity chimps doing that?

We think it was the new chimps.

I mean, it was, but it was the whole environment.

The new chimps stormed in

absolutely livid about the way they'd been delivered.

They tried to stake their territory, essentially, you know.

And all of these celebrity chimps, you must understand, have been

raised with quite the lifestyle.

They're used to having a lot of yes chimps around them.

They're not used to these, these angry RSPCA Hermes chimps.

So I think they just coward.

I think it was the

it was it was the angry new chimps who very much decided to stake their claim by um well ripping Jan's head off, scooping out the inside and sticking a candle in her mouth.

With Jan fully pumpkin-patched, Philip took on the leadership of the sanctuary and found himself with a turbulent situation to deal with.

It was absolute chaos.

There was obviously a lot of cleaning up to do.

We had two warring groups of chimps.

The new lot would not integrate.

you know they really were and are some of the most violent and reactionary chimps I've ever seen in my life.

Many people listening would assume actually that just any chimp you'd get is a pretty violent animal, right?

Pretty dangerous, pretty violent.

But you're saying that these chimps are sort of that plus a bit.

They're kind of they're even worse than the sort of the base level chimp.

Way worse than the base level chimp.

These chimps not only are violent, but seem to be ordered within themselves.

They're a gang.

I see.

But there's nothing we can say or do to stop them acting out their horrible will.

Aside from the unrelenting violence, the other unusual thing about the new chimpanzees was their diet.

These new chimps would only eat meat.

Only meat.

So it would be regular trips to the mystery butcher next door to buy meat from him and the chimps absolutely just loved that meat.

That would be the only time we could really keep them quiet or calm is when they were chowing down on a bucket of meat.

Chimpanzees in the wild will eat some meat.

I think they're omnivorous, but they will supplement that with fruit and vegetables and roots.

And

these ones are just eating meat.

Pure meat.

Atkins chimps.

They would only, only eat meat.

And I can't quite

tell you how in shape these chimps are.

Ripped chimps.

Ripped chimps.

Six packs, the works.

Some of them had quite distinctive tattoos

as well.

Teardrops, things like that.

Just classic gang stuff, basically.

Your classic gang stuff.

So here we go.

Keep the blindfold on for now.

And then we get in there, we can take it off.

This is the war room.

Here we go.

Eli took me into his war room, a concrete bunker deep underground, which he built shortly after the RSPCA's army commandeered his chimpanzees.

Wow.

Gosh, it's um...

Can I take the blindfold off?

Yeah, take it off.

There's six foot thick thick walls here.

This is reinforced concrete.

I've got an 800-gallon lead-lined water tank.

I've got enough food here to last approximately three or four years.

So all of this, is this because there's always that chance the RSPCA could come back?

Is that what you're worried about?

They could come back.

I'm always minded of things.

I think he who

fails to prepare prepares to fail.

In a siege situation, which it's not beyond the RSPCA to, if they come across fortified opponents, they will often use siege tactics.

I thought it was important that I was able to weather out any sort of siege.

So this is

two things.

It's a war room in as much as I can conduct operations from here, but I also it is a bunker where I can survive

and out and out live, you know, outfight and outlive my opponents is the idea.

And so the first order of the day, I guess, was get those chimps back.

And so am I to imagine that the plan was to take the RSPCA on much as they'd come to your house.

It was time to go to their house.

Yeah, I mean, very much so.

I'd been to company's house and found out the registered office of the RSPCA.

The plan was originally to take my chimp army with me.

up to London and fight fire with fire, very much so.

Oh, so you were going to get more chimps then to restock?

I was going to almost, in the old days, of course, if you were going to repel raiders on the way through villages, you would recruit locals to come and fight for you.

And the plan was to make my way to London via various zoos.

I see.

So there's, of course, I was going to start in West Wales at Anna Ryder Richardson's Welsh Zoo, of course, and then traveling through past the old Hawkins Centre in Barry.

There's no longer a Cardiff Zoo, but there's various

swans and things on various lakes in Cardiff.

Wild animals,

birds,

basically an animal army.

Of course, Bristol Zoo being one of the main staging posts on the way, Bristol Zoo, and then ended up at the London Zoo, of of course.

And then me and my legion of animals and birds to descend upon RSPC headquarters and demand the return of the chimps.

And I'm looking around in the war room here.

It's clear that that's what you were doing because there's maps.

There's every zoo in the UK is shown on this map up here.

And you've got a list there of the kind of animals you want to recruit there.

Yeah, well, it's like I said, it's all about strategy.

I was determined and resolved to not be outthought again.

So when you're planning an army, of course, one is reminded of Hannibal back in the days of Carthage, of course, who used elephants, who were very much the tank of the day, you know.

Because yeah, but next to me here, there's a thing saying Hawk Squadron.

The thing about a hawk is they're very, very clever animals, very, very clever birds.

They're very fast, they're very elusive.

And they can carry small charges.

You can attach explosives to a hawk on very much a sort of kamikaze run.

Like a drone, like a drone, except rather than deliver a payload and then return to you, a hawk will, a hawk is the payload.

Yeah.

You know, I called them my Kamikaze hawks, and they were, they were prepared to die in the course.

So,

yeah, very, very reliable hawk as well and easy to train, you know, get a big love in some meat, and

that's that's your hawk train, yeah.

So, and of course, you know, I'm just thinking about it now.

If you were to put together such an army, it's kind of the RSPCA's Achilles heel, isn't it?

Because they don't, as you said earlier, they don't want to kill a hawk.

Very much, you've heard of the operation human shield of course this was very much operation animal shield

where I as a human being would be surrounded by a phalanx of animals uh at the front would be uh

be the big boys you know the uh the elephants the rhinoceros uh hippopotamus etc they'd the cooking animals on the flank of course i would employ uh greyhounds uh cheetahs uh to take the flanks and then bringing up the rear would be my most trusted animals so the uh

more chimps of course uh other other members of the of the the simian order, baboons, macaques.

And of course,

my own version of the micro drone, of course, the mosquitoes.

Take a few bin bags full of mosquitoes with me.

Of course, a pelican as well, a very good mosquito delivery system.

You know,

if you load up a pelican's beak with

mosquitoes, of course, your pelican will get about 400,000, 500,000 mosquitoes in the beak.

Because they're very much...

The pelican is a long-distance bird.

Not particularly adept at fighting, but what they can do is they're they're a delivery system so just like where you would take uh

maybe a larger one of the larger aircraft in the second world war maybe a lancaster not a great fighting machine but a great delivery machine you know with paratroops whatever so the might the pelican was very much a delivery system so the pelicans would be loaded up with uh with the mosquitoes of course

uh the pelicans would uh

would would lead the attack so they they would go in first with the with the mosquitoes and then of course you'd bring in the hawks and the and the and the bigger animals then and of course behind all that you know

several lines of animals behind there would be me

coordinating the attack.

So, you'd very much behind behind the lines, kind of officer-class.

Behind the lines, sat a strider zebra.

And then, this was a zebra in the sort of

the more rural areas.

As we got into the high-rise areas, as we got past the sort of M25 into the middle of London, of course, I then would dismount, and that's when I would

scale one of the giraffes.

In the end, we had to separate the celebrities and the

civilian chimps, although even to call them civilians, they were terrorists.

My main concern at that point was that there was not a lot of place for that anger that these civilian chimps actually had to go.

They couldn't bully the celebrities.

And I was quite concerned because there was a little baby chimp who'd arrived with them in the Hermes order.

And they were just neglecting him.

They weren't looking after him.

It felt like they were trying to harden him up.

Right.

The fact is, no one was looking after him.

And we'd try and feed him, of course.

We'd

leave out bowls of

ready brack, etc.

And by the time the baby chimp got there, the other chimps would have gobbled it down.

So what I decided to do

was take the baby chimp home with me

to live in my house with me the safest place for him so you'd you'd bring it up as your son

as my as my chimp son yeah

now in in these kind of cases of course there are ethical concerns can we say yeah whether a chimp should be brought up in a in a human household you know there are there are old instances of this happening you know scientists in the 70s trying to teach them sign language and trying to teach them to speak and all this kind of thing there was of course that

the scientist who had sex with the dolphin.

So that's at the front of people's minds when these things happen.

Well, I'd just like to say, I don't really know why you brought the dolphin up.

No, no, you're right.

Yeah.

That wasn't necessarily that fair of me.

No, that's not really

a similar situation.

Yes, there were some ethical concerns that I shouldn't be bringing a baby chimp home to live with my son, especially as that's what I've started telling people.

I'm bringing this chimp home to live as my son.

I think it's the live as my son bit maybe that people.

If you just said, oh, I'm bringing, I'm looking after this chimp for a while in my house, people might say, oh, okay.

Yeah, that's not what was happening.

I was taking the baby chimp home to live as my son.

I think the ethical issues really come when you're taking a chimp as a pet.

That's always what I've thought.

So what you were doing was more ethical.

Much more ethical.

I'm taking a chimp home to live as my equal, as my offspring, not as my pet.

I just really saw this as an opportunity.

All of the horrible things that I've seen that have been perpetrated by Eli Roberts, I really

started to be quite down on humanity.

And just this opportunity to take a baby chimp and craft it into the purest expression of humanity that I could muster was too difficult to pass up.

This went on for about six months.

And it was tricky.

It's tricky raising a chimp baby.

You know, I almost thought that maybe the way chimps age, perhaps we were going through some tricky teenage times when I got him.

He's

quite petulant, a petulant little chimp baby.

But it just starts to get more and more

and more violent.

Right.

You know, I'd be reading him a bedtime story and he'd tear a chunk of my hair out, that sort of thing.

Right.

And obviously, your whole goal is to create this kind of pure human that is full of love, really, more than anything else and not violence.

yeah but it's beginning to act up does that make you think actually this is impossible what i've tried to do

i didn't think that for a long time i thought all i need to do is love bomb this chimp

so every time i would do something loving in return he pulls out a chunk of your hair

um another another parent might scold the child might say what are you doing don't do that again and tell them off you're not doing that no kiss on the head some would say you're rewarding that behavior then No.

What I'm doing there is I'm showing him the loving version of what he just did.

So he's ripped a chunk of my hair out.

I'm kissing him on the head.

Okay.

He's punched me in the face while I'm in the bath.

I stroke his little face.

He shits in my mouth while I'm asleep.

I make him an omelette.

Okay.

But this

strategy doesn't begin to bear fruit.

No, not at all.

If anything, I think it was winding him up.

So the violence just escalated further and further and further to the point where it almost seemed like he was becoming one of the chimps I'd worked so hard to take him away from.

So I decided to do some investigating because we didn't really know where these chimps had come from.

We knew they'd come from the RSPCA.

But when I requested...

some more details from the RSPCA after my son became quite violent towards me,

they said no.

They said it it was the chimps' privacy.

We couldn't request those records about where they'd come from.

So

I had to dig a little deeper to find out where they'd come from.

The chimps had some interesting tattoos, like I say, and so

a little bit of Google image reverse searching on those tattoos did lead me to

a culprit.

They'd come from the compound of Eli Roberts.

Where they'd been working as security guards?

Yeah.

And

what brilliant security guards they must have been, frankly.

Absolutely ruthless.

And when you found that out, did everything begin to make sense?

All of their behavior began to make sense.

Their attitude began to make sense.

Just the way they held themselves.

And

it begins to answer some questions about your son.

Yeah.

The way my son was behaving, the way this training had kicked in.

He'd clearly been trained from very early on in life, but it's almost like a sort of slow-release training program where they hit a certain age and then everything kicks in, you know, and they don't even know what they're doing.

A bit like the born identity, but with the chimp.

And I thought, right, well, that's it.

I've just got to get,

I've got to get this chimp out of my house.

I've made a horrible mistake.

Philip made the discovery that the chimps were from Eli Roberts' compound whilst doing research at the library section of his local beef information center.

Upon learning that his chimp son had originally been reared by Eli Roberts, he rushed back to his home.

I got back and it was too it was too late.

He'd absolutely torn the place apart.

The house was barely standing.

I know a lot of my neighbors thought it was some sort of gas explosion, but

it was just a slow deconstruction at the hands of the chimp.

And I don't know how he did this, but he'd gone to the local cemetery and dug up Jan's body

and popped her on a little footstool that I have in my front room.

No head.

I don't know what happened to the head, but the candle was just sticking out of the neck.

She looked like a birthday cake.

Well, so it the chimp had propped up her corpse in your house?

Yeah, in my house on the footstool, sat there

with a candle sticking out of her.

I don't know how the chimp knew where Jan was buried.

I'm assuming that's some sort of sense of smell thing, but

it really was.

I mean, I was angry about the house, but to find the decaying body of Jan in my front room really was the final straw.

So at this point, while I was staring at Jan's body, I heard a noise,

and I turned around.

My son was stood in the doorway holding a pizza cutter and had a look in his eyes that I'd not seen in his eyes before.

And I thought, I think he's going to try and

chop my head off with that pizza cutter.

And I couldn't really think of

the loving thing I could do in response to that.

more after this.

Hello,

me again.

So, it's Max Fun Drive.

What's that then?

So, the Maximum Fun Network, which this podcast is part of and has been part of now since 2016.

Incredibly, I've been making a podcast about beef for that long.

And the reason I've been able to do that is because the show and all shows on the network are supported by the listener.

And yes, we run one ad an episode.

I'm slash beef.

But it'll never be more than that.

The idea really is that we don't have to run loads of ads.

The vast majority of our funding comes from you, the listener.

People who like the show enough to kick in a few bucks, as I believe an American might say.

I did already talk about this, of course, in last week's show.

So I will keep this brief.

But maybe, you know, last week, you know, I was telling you about Max Fun Drive and you were thinking, Yeah, maybe I should sign up and support the podcast.

Maybe, you know, I've listened to it for a few years, I really like it, I look forward to it coming out.

Maybe I should, maybe I should throw beef and dairy network some money, you know.

But then you didn't because, you know, the doorbell went and there was a package for next door, and they said, Will you take it in?

And you said, Yeah, okay.

But then you thought, Oh, no, but actually, I'm actually away now tomorrow.

So

their parcels essentially going to be kidnapped in your house for a week because you're going away on a camping trip to a wooded wooded area.

And then when you get back a week later, they say, Hang on, why have you waited this long to give me my parcel?

And you're like, well, I've been away in a wooded area with my family and friends, sleeping under canvas.

As regards this parcel, I thought I was being a good neighbor by taking it in, but I just didn't think.

And now, actually, your parcels...

Oh, what?

It needs refrigeration.

It's drugs.

You need to stay alive.

You've died.

You've died.

Oh, God.

So, how are you able to speak to me now that you're dead?

Oh, you.

Oh, you're talking to me from beyond the grave.

Gosh.

Well, at least you've got that, haven't you?

You can chat to your wife, whatever.

Oh, you can only haunt me because I'm the cause.

Oh, okay.

Oh, okay.

Well,

I'm a busy guy.

I'm not going to want to chat that often, I'm going to say.

So, no, I d

No, no, I don't feel a responsibility actually to chat to you.

No, I no, I don't think it is my fault.

Well, I'd be taking it up with the post office for a start.

Anyway, look, listen, I'm in the middle of.

Sorry?

No, I think you're a prick.

No, listen, sorry, I'm in the middle of recording a podcast here,

and I'm telling the audience how they can support the podcast if they'd wish, and I'm thanking those who already do, because they make it possible.

So, thank you.

I'll get on with this.

Thank you.

And stop levitating my stuff.

So maybe something like that happened, or maybe you were distracted by something else.

But what I'm saying is, if you've been thinking about it, just pause the podcast now even and go to maxmumfun.org forward slash join.

Thank you.

Memberships start at $5 a month.

For that, you get access to all the bonus content for all the shows of MaxFun.

For Beef and Dairy, there's like loads of bits that we recorded but never used.

There's live show audio.

This year, there's audio from last year's Ask of Et online session I did with Dr.

Sam Archer.

Also, some bits from the Beef Call episode, which never made it in, which I've now repurposed and turned into something else, which is a bit sort of trippy and fun.

Also, you get access to the video of the last two live shows we've done at London Podcast Festival.

So, yeah, there's a load of bonus content you can have a look at.

And if you're already a member, you should be able to get access to all of that already.

But the main thing is, whether you're just supporting beef and dairy or you're supporting a load of MaxFun shows,

you become a patron of the arts.

You get that good feeling that you know you're supporting people making independent media.

Truly artisanal beef journalism.

And if you're already a member, big thank you to you.

Thank you so much.

Can't say that enough.

Thank you.

Right.

Back to the show.

Maximumfun dot org

Slash join.

MaximumFun dot org.

Please hit dry and spring.

Slash join.

Eli spent months planning his assault on RSPB headquarters with his army of zoo animals.

However, the plan was never carried out.

I asked Eli why he abandoned that tactic.

Well, very simply put,

it looked great on paper, you know, and I was very, very up for doing it, and I was very keen, and the animals I think would have been keen as well.

All comes down to the sheer logistics of it,

not least of which, of course, is the sheer time it would take to train the animals to perform correctly.

You're talking about sort of

for the brighter animals, like the cheetahs, probably two or three years.

For the thicker animals, for instance, pelicans,

four or five years.

So, you know, the old saying that revenge is a dish best served cold, of course.

That isn't true, right?

Revenge is a dish best served piping hot.

I wanted instant gratification.

You know, I think it was very, very important to strike while the iron was hot.

I didn't have time to spend five years training animals.

Well, you'd have lost five years of David's.

Well, exactly.

By the time I'd have got David without, you know, he would have been sort of like in late teens in chimp years.

You know, and then he's had a girlfriend and he'd be wanting a life of his own.

You know, he might have started smoking already.

Exactly.

So I didn't want to miss those key moments.

So

it was very important I acted quickly.

So I sat back, what would Oli Light do now?

What's the best thing to do?

And of course,

like so many things in life, it comes down often to an individual level.

So Manoe Mano, as it were, and in this case, Mano Ewumano, the head of the RSPCA,

was a woman

called

Jane Palm.

I looked her up, Cabral's house, all the information is freely available.

Found out her home address, and I took much more direct measures.

Despite being the commander-in-chief of the world's ninth biggest standing army, Jane Palm was living totally unprotected on a residential street in Wimbledon.

So when I got to the house where Jane lives, and I turned up at the house, and Jane came to the door, of course, looked terrified because I think she realized immediately who she was dealing with.

So she knew who you were?

Well, yeah,

she was aware of me, of course,

from her planning.

And she saw the face and she knew who she's doing.

And

it's amazing what you can achieve with

a can-do attitude, which I mentioned before.

And I think the scariest person in the room always is the one who thinks he's got another delusion.

I'd lost Arvith.

Of course, I'd lost my chimps.

I'd lost my cock and balls.

And a man in that situation is a desperate man.

And she realised this.

So I used that to my advantage.

I mean,

I knew that in addition to

having a

PhD in military operations, that she was actually an undergraduate in Persian history.

Oxford University, very, very intelligent woman.

And you think, is that where she learned about war tactics and all that?

I think you would see the way that

the way they would attack was very much grounded in ancient tactics.

I noticed some of the techniques of the Carthaginians.

I noticed some were Roman, some Greek in origin, some Turkish, Mesopotamian.

I knew for a fact she had a soft spot for the Persian empire and i thought i could use that to my advantage and i'm a well i'm a well-read man i always have been

uh people see they see old eli and think that i'm i can be two-dimensional this uh they they think that at their peril because i'm

i'm a learner i'm i'm not just an educator i i'm i am always learning i'm my ears are open my eyes are open i'm a sponge

And I thought, I know, let's fight fire with fire.

So I told Jane that unless

David the Cross and the rest of the chimp army were returned to me forthwith,

that she would be a victim of scaphism.

Scaffism?

Scaphism, yeah.

Right.

And is that...

Sorry, I don't know.

Well, scarfism is an ancient, and Jane knew this straight away because you could see the fear arise.

And she knew I wasn't joking.

Scavism, of course, the torture of the boats would be where you would take two rowing boats.

I suppose in these days it would be the sort of thing you'd find on a public pond or lake.

You'd lay the person in the bottom boat.

boat, of course, you put the top boat on top of them, you're exposing just their limbs and their heads, and then you would cover the you cover the face with honey and the limbs with honey as well, and you put honey inside the boat.

And then you leave them there, of course.

So and you make sure they're always facing the sun and

insects and various creatures will begin to avail themselves of the honey.

You force feed the person who's being tortured.

And of course, the human body being what it is, you know, once they've been fed,

you need to

use a toilet, of course, but you're stuck in a boat, so what can you do?

So you end up having to,

well, basically defecate and urinate inside the boat, you know, and you leave the body there for a week or two, or three or four, five or six or seven.

And

eventually you're lining your own filth and various vermin and parasites.

And you're essentially eating from the inside out, you know, just lining your own filth.

By parasites and insects, and...

Yeah, yeah, parasites, insects, rodents,

whatever, really, whatever's passed in.

But,

I mean, it works.

Just the thought of it worked, you know, because I could see the look in Jane's face and she said, scaffism?

No.

I said, yeah, oh, yeah, believe me,

no problem.

Before you could say Mithridates, of course, who was the original sufferer of

scaffism, thanks to,

I believe it was

Ataxerces, I think, the second, as far as I remember,

I think he was taking revenge for

Bithridalius killing his brother, of course, Cyrus the Younger.

There's no motivator as strong in this world as fear.

So, when she was threatened with the scarfism, of course, she couldn't wait to give me the coordinates of where they were.

And

lo and behold, it was a chimp sanctuary.

They were actually being kept against their wills in a chimp sanctuary.

So he's quite close to me now with the

pizza cutter.

He's nodding and laughing and pointing at Jan, at poor Jan, the birthday cake.

And then I just heard a gigantic crash to the side of us, and there's barely any of the wall of the house left, but what there is left is

absolutely obliterated.

And I turn my head, and there is Daniel Radcliffe.

Now, when you say Daniel Radcliffe, do you mean Daniel Rycliffe the chimp or Danny Rydcliffe the actor?

It's such a blur that I'm not quite sure.

All I know is that one of the Daniel Radcliffe's has stood there with a look in his eyes that I've never seen him have before.

And he's a good actor, but this was for real.

Right.

And he came hurtling towards us.

And at that point, I'm panicking.

I'm thinking, is it all chimps for themselves?

Is it...

Has he come to join in with your...

Has he come to join in?

Exactly.

Has he heard that there's a Halloween pumpkin head happening and he wants a bit of it, you know?

Yeah, he's spent a lot of his life living in quite a sheltered way.

Maybe finally he's realised the way of the chimp and he wants to pull my head off like a big pumpkin.

But it became clear pretty rapidly that

he was there to back me up.

So I thought,

here comes Radcliffe.

You know, is he going to be able to handle this?

Because he's not really known for his action roles.

I don't think he's done an action film, not that I can think of.

No, many people would consider Harry Potter an action film towards the end, I suppose.

Woman in black is obviously there's peril involved, but it's not

that kind of thing.

So I was slightly worried.

He didn't look hugely intimidating.

He looked determined, but

he didn't look intimidating.

And

did your son look intimidated by the presence of Daniel Rydcliffe?

Oh, my son was not bothered at all.

You know, I don't think these civilian chimps, when they were being trained by Eli, ever saw films, so so he wasn't even starstruck.

He just didn't seem bothered.

At this point, I thought Daniel Radcliffe was going to come over and physically aid me, but he lifted a whistle to his lips that he was keeping in the pocket of his cloak and blew the whistle.

And almost instantaneously, Rupert Grint came crashing through the roof

straight onto the shoulders and back of my son.

I heard a sharp crack, and it was all over.

Rupert Grint had completely spatchcocked him.

Just in a one-fluid movement.

Done.

He'd butterflied your son.

Completely butterflied my son.

Splat and crack is the only word can describe it.

Mixed emotions, I imagine, for you.

Very mixed emotions.

Experiment was over.

Officially.

I definitely made some emotional connection to my son, but if I look back on it, I absolutely hated him.

So, there were no good memories, really, that you were

going

to.

All of my memories were

things like having my hair ripped out, or

you know, being slapped in the mouth, or waking up and immediately having to brush my teeth.

You know, there was nothing that really sung out as a fantastic memory.

So, when Rupert Grint landed on my son's spine, it really did cheer up my day.

Philip re-buried Jan and waved goodbye to Rupert Grint as he returned to the forest.

Then it was time to go back to the sanctuary.

By the time I arrived back, I was dreading what I was going to see.

All of the security guard chimps had gone.

They'd all gone from the sanctuary.

Clearly, Eli Roberts has been and taken his security guards back.

So you arrive at the sanctuary, Were there any

humans running?

Yeah,

we've seen the type, of course.

Dugood, as I call him.

Right.

You know, they always look very similar.

Fleeces on with the name of the sanctuary embroidered on the chest.

A sort of pasty look to the face.

So

I parked up.

Got the one fellow there.

I think his name was Stephen.

I said, give me the keys.

Open all the cages.

Put the chimps in the back of the transit, man.

And there was no resistance from Stephen or the other volunteers to you.

Stephen actually soiled himself on the spot.

It was the thing,

which I respected.

Yeah, he yandered over the keys

fairly quickly.

I opened up the cages.

He was on the floor whimpering at the time.

And then I said, where's David?

My boy, David.

Where is he?

So we're back here in Slankig in Wales.

Obviously, the chimps are in their barn.

Yeah.

They're patrolling with the crossbows and that kind of thing and they're back at work.

Am I right in saying that David isn't

David isn't here?

I have a

pardon me for a second.

I love that boy, you know, he's

I love him so deeply that I I cannot I literally cannot describe to you how much I hate whoever's taken him.

And I cannot and I will not be responsible for my actions if I find the fucker who's taken him away because

I've seen a bit you know I've been around the place I've I've lived in the militarized zones I've I've I've tortured I've killed

but I've always done that from a place of love

but if I find out who's got damn it

it'll be from a place of hate and I don't know I don't know I don't know what I'll do what I'm capable of doing, which thrills me in equal parts,

terrifies me.

I've never been scared of myself before.

I've never seen you be this venerable before.

There's no shame in that.

I mean, I remember when I was in school, I got very upset once when I had a pet hamster

called Dave, and he got stood on and he died.

And I was very upset.

And

my friend Mark said to me, Oh, look at you crying over a

silly little hamster, you know.

And I actually made Mark eat the hamster.

As I said,

I've lived a good life.

I've done things the way they should be done, and I've lived a life of

without consequence, really.

But

David,

it's a bridge too far for me.

I don't know.

Do you believe that David is still alive?

I can't believe otherwise, Diana.

When I go to sleep at night, I can hear his voice.

I can hear him say the...

Which of course means

I'm your dad.

I'm here, Eli.

And...

Well, Eli, listen.

You've got a public platform here.

Yeah.

You could make an appeal and maybe give a message to whoever it is does have David, you know?

Okay.

If you've got David,

please return him to Slankie care of Eli Roberts as soon as possible.

And if you do that, you have my word of honor that I will fucking kill you

horribly.

But if you fucking don't do it, I fucking shit you not.

I will fucking torture you and all your relatives for seven generations, you fucking evil fuckers.

So bring it back now, and I'll just kill you quickly.

But if you bring it back after, I will.

All I gotta find in myself, I will fucking kill you and everyone who's ever met you.

Thank you.

Oh, damn it.

Philip, every time we've spoken to you in the past, past, your interactions with Eli have forced you to move on into a new chapter of your life.

And each one really has been characterized by you wanting to get away from Eli and his impact on your life and the way he manages to somehow inveigle himself into almost every experience you have on this earth.

It's almost sort of uncanny how he's able to do that.

Yeah.

So what's next for you?

And

can you realistically forge a life that won't be affected by this man?

I don't know what I'm going to do.

Obviously,

the

fact he's got these security chips back does worry me a little bit.

The fact that he's still operating and that he's out there.

But

you've got to look at the numbers and

chance.

You know, so far in my life, you know, Eli Roberts has

ruined my...

career as a food standards agent.

I then moved on to animal welfare and I raided Mosquito Mayhem, which was the Mosquito-only zoo that Eli Roberts ran.

So I thought, oh, that's the end of my relationship with Eli Roberts.

I then went to the

exercise classes and they turned out to be a death game run by Eli Roberts.

And now he's sent his security chimps to a sanctuary that I was working in.

I think the chances of me encountering him again are very, very low.

Just on a purely mathematical basis, it seems like it must be vanishingly small.

It seems unlikely.

And And so then, do you feel positive about your future?

Yeah, I think so.

I think I need to find my next thing.

I think, you know, mentally I burnt a lot of bridges with food standards and animal welfare and chimps and the like.

You've left the sanctuary behind?

I've left the sanctuary

in safe hands

of a chimp.

I think finally it's time for the chimps to rule the roost.

And of course, the only person for the job was Daniel Radcliffe.

Daniel Radcliffe is now running the sanctuary for chimps.

He understands chimps.

He understands celebrities.

He's the best chimp for the job, or man.

So he's happy.

I'm happy.

And I don't know what the future holds for me, but I think it'll be Eli Roberts free.

David!

Come back!

Come back to Daddy, Daff!

If you run away, I forgive you.

And I'll kill you when you come back.

But But I give you a hug first.

David.

Sorry, you think you'll kill David again?

Yes, of course.

I will.

You gotta learn.

Gotta learn.

David,

I've given up my cock and balls for you.

Come back here.

Come back.

And let me

see you one more time.

Let me kill you with my own hands, please.

So, that's all we've got time for this month.

But if you're after more beef and dairy news, get over to the website now, where you can find all the usual stuff, as well as our off-topic section, where this month we'd launch a competition which is your chance to win an evening out at a Pizza Express restaurant of your choice with former British Prime Minister John Major.

So, until next time, beef out.

Thanks to Linnaea Sage, Ed Gempbell and Mike Bubbins.

And thank you for listening.

This is now the last thing I'll say about Max Fun Drive for a whole calendar year.

Having the freedom to make this show is,

I might say, the greatest privilege of my life, which is true, but absolutely, it sounds like I'm receiving a golden globe or something.

But anyway,

thanks to everyone who supports the podcast already.

If you fancy doing so, go to maximumfund.org forward slash join.

If it's not for you, you can't afford it, you just don't want to, that's also fine.

I'm still going to make the podcast, and I'm still happy you're listening.

All right.

Hope you're having a nice day.

Please enjoy and stream.

Bye.

MaximumFund.org forward slash join.