ENCORE Chrisley Identity Crisis: Life before and after the cameras feat. Lindsie Chrisley

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We're here.

We made it.

We're on air.

Finally, it's our turn to ask you questions.

I know.

I feel like I haven't seen y'all since New York City, like years ago.

Yes, I know.

That's right.

Oh, yes,

remember we sat on that porn couch?

Yes.

Oh, yeah.

And we didn't find it out till we were already been like sitting on it forever.

Yeah, that's right.

I forgot.

So disgusted.

That's a long time ago.

It was years.

Like

maybe, was it before COVID?

Yes.

Yeah, it was before COVID.

Because y'all were at a reunion.

Were y'all at something for Teen Mom?

We were probably there for a reunion.

Yeah, we're there for a reunion.

Yeah, something.

But it was years, years ago.

That was so long ago.

So, how is life?

Like, how's everything going?

Wow.

There's just been so much change since then.

I left reality TV.

Okay.

And why is that?

I just made the choice personally for myself to step away from that.

It wasn't serving my marriage well, which ultimately ended anyway.

Oh, okay.

My child was getting ready to start school, and I didn't want him filmed.

There was no pay for my child on that show.

Oh, yeah, no.

And so that just accompanied with my parents having

some legal issues that were going on.

They went to trial, were convicted, and are both in federal prison now.

And is that your dad and your stepmom?

Oh, so it's your stepmom, not dad.

But she did adopt me.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, because to be honest, we don't really know anything about anything.

Like, I know that you, I know Chris Lee knows best.

I know that that, all that stuff.

But as far as like the details, I don't know anything.

Yeah.

So I mean, obviously, I did see it in the media.

I did see about like your parents and all of that, but I didn't know the nitty-gritty of it.

And even that, though, is I don't understand really what happened or like what or were you involved in all that?

or were you like not in the legal stuff?

No, okay, okay, okay, got it.

I was not involved in that.

Um, it was just them, none of the kids were involved.

I mean, involved in the sense of like going to trial and stuff, we were all there, but as far as like the legalities of the situation, um, my parents were indicted.

Okay, but like, how did that all that start?

Okay, take me back because I don't know how, like, where whatever you feel comfortable with.

Yeah, obviously, but like, you know, Christy knows best.

How did that even happen?

Yeah, I want to go from like, like, to the beginning.

Like, how did your family even, how did that ever even happen?

How was reality TV brought up to them?

Were you guys always a known family before that happened?

Like,

I would say known in Atlanta.

My dad, as a businessman,

was known.

But as far as like

thoughts on TV was never

like, we never saw that coming.

Yeah.

My dad went to New York Fashion Week and became friends with someone who was in the business of pitching shows for networks.

Okay.

And she became privy to like a lot of family stuff that was going on and the intricacies of the family and the dynamic.

And so he was asked if the family would shoot a sizzle reel

and had no idea about anything about TV.

So he's like, you got to tell me like more about this information.

At that time, I was not even in communication with my parents.

Oh, okay.

How old were you about that time?

Yeah.

I was in

a sophomore in college at that point.

So I guess, what, like 19?

Yeah, so older.

20 years old.

My parents, I grew up in a very religious household, very conservative household.

I lived at home for one year, my first year of college.

And my dad had made a deal with me that if I got my grades and was able to maintain my college life,

aka not drinking and not sleeping around,

then they would buy me a condo.

Okay, so I kept up my end of the deal, go into my sophomore year, parents buy me a condo,

and I started letting my boyfriend sleep over.

And my dad found out about it, and he was like, That's not gonna happen.

So, I made the decision for my own life.

I'm an adult,

doing this on my own.

Um, I went to school completely on scholarship.

My parents paid nothing for that.

And I think that all of them are.

Oh, they paid nothing.

They paid for the condo, but didn't pay for school.

No, there was no

money for school.

I was the first child in my family.

Actually, I was a first-generation college student.

Oh,

for you, yeah.

And so it was very important to me.

And I moved in with my boyfriend at the time, which then became my husband.

Yeah.

So, wait, so your dad kicked you out of the condo also?

Or did you just decide to leave?

I decided to leave.

I knew that that was coming because I was not going to change my lifestyle or anything that I was doing.

So, inevitably, that was going to happen.

Yeah.

So, I just, I guess probably that was me trying to control my own destiny.

I guess which I did.

Yeah.

And I was like, well, he's going to make me leave anyway.

So I'm going to just go ahead and fucking go.

Yeah.

So I had two vehicles at the time, put the keys on the counter, left all the contents of the condo, just took my personal items, went to my boyfriend's house.

stayed there for the rest of college,

got married my last semester of school and got pregnant within six months of being married.

Wow.

Yeah.

How long were you with your boyfriend before

like graduating college?

Like, how long were you with him in total before you got?

Well, I had this great idea whenever I was going to school that I was just going to be a sorority girl.

Like, I was just going to live up this college experience and I was just going to go to school and party when I wasn't going to school.

I started school in August and I met him in September and then we like never broke up.

So I had a boyfriend all through college and then ended up marrying him.

Him and my dad did not get along at all.

Really?

Okay.

Definitely cut from different cloths for sure.

Like, Like, why do they not get along?

I think that

they just came from very different

views and stuff?

I would not necessarily say views.

I think it was more so, like, my boyfriend was on the baseball team.

My dad was not into athletics.

You know, he was a businessman.

He thought that my boyfriend in college should have been on a job.

And his parents were like, as long as you keep your grades and you're eligible to play baseball, that's the only job that you have to have.

And so I think that my dad just wanted me to be with somebody who was a working man.

Like him?

Is that kind of what you felt like?

Okay, because when you say businessman,

real estate was it?

What was he?

Yeah, so he

owned an asset management company that was a liaison between

when foreclosures happened, like the bank and then the new buyer.

And so that's what his company did.

They acted as the liaison to liquidate those assets.

So he was very, very successful in that.

And then

he was approached for the sizzle reel.

Yeah.

And he was like, I mean, I guess we're going to do it.

And of course, you guys know TV, y'all are veterans.

So I don't need to tell you anything.

They sell you this dream, right?

Oh, yes.

It's like, oh, you're only investing like seven days of your time.

Something might come about.

Something might not, but it's just seven days.

Which that part is true.

Like they don't even know if, you know, the higher ups are going to like the sizzle reel.

And so then it's like a very long seven days of work.

And then it is.

And you don't know what to expect.

No, you don't.

And so you walk into this situation and you're like, what the fuck even is this?

Like, right, what the fuck's happening?

There's mics and like all these cameras around and no one knows what the hell's going on and we don't know what's actually going to happen.

So my dad had already been in this mindset of this show was going to get picked up.

I don't think that he knew

how it was going to happen.

I don't think he could see that far into it because he didn't know TV in that way, but I think that he knew that there was enough dynamic there that someone would be interested.

Yeah.

So he immediately already went into producer mode and he was like, you need to take off your wedding ring because you're not going to know you're married.

You need to.

Who's he telling this?

TV?

Oh, wow, really?

Yeah.

So he immediately.

For what reason, though?

What was that?

Because he wanted it for season one.

So if it got picked up,

that it would be storyline for season one.

So he was like, take off the wedding ring.

No one's going to know that you're married.

You need to wear loose clothing, like loose dresses.

Nobody's going to know that you're pregnant.

So for this entire seven days of filming the sizzle reel, no one knew that I was married.

No one knew that I was pregnant.

Everything.

How did that feel for you, though, to have your own dad say, hey, like.

Pretty much hide who you are.

Don't like did that.

I mean, did you almost feel like, what did you feel like?

Well, I walked from the sizzle reel.

Okay.

Okay.

you're like fuck this well yeah it was a little more than that but

you guys like got in a fight about it like yeah it was a big deal because

i was now a part of four or five days of the sizzle reel and then i walk on like day six or seven

and then i'm being threatened by this production company that they're gonna sue me for forty thousand dollars mind you i am just coming out of college I am newly married, pregnant, and they're like, now that you've been a part of these five days or whatever, this is what we're pitching.

So what we're pitching has to be consistent with what's going to be on TV potentially.

Whoa, what?

So I did not want to do the deal at all.

I don't blame you.

I was the last child to sign the contract.

How many child?

How many children are they all?

Five.

Okay.

Wow.

Dang.

Okay.

Yeah.

So it was, it was all of us, like as a collective.

And I was told by the production company that it was basically all of us signed the contract or like it's a no deal situation.

Oh, wow.

So all of you are not.

Yep.

So then I take it your dad's probably pressuring you with that too.

Yeah.

Everybody was pressuring.

If you don't do it, we're all going to be screwed.

Wow.

That is.

So you're manipulated for sure.

But I wasn't even a big part of the show.

And that's what's so crazy about it.

I think that they liked the dynamic of the fact that there was always

From the time that they started filming us, there was conflict with me and my dad, and we did not see eye to eye on a lot of things.

So I think that they liked that dynamic.

I have a brother that's 15 months younger than me that also deals with substance issues and pretty much always has for as long as I can remember.

And so they liked that dynamic too, because

obviously they like filming that kind of stuff.

It adds a different view, right, of things.

And then three children that were still in the home.

And so the three, so they're younger?

Yeah, high school, two high schoolers, and then an elementary school child at the time.

Wow.

So, this is like

little ones.

Yeah, these are both.

Wow.

Holy shit.

Yeah.

That's crazy.

So I ultimately ended up signing the contract and

I said, I do not want this ever to change.

Like there was already issues.

And I said, I don't want it to ever make any issues worse because this is now being televised.

Right.

So they send the sizzle reel out to who the hell knows.

And I believe it was like eight networks or nine networks, and we got eight offers.

Wow,

and so, um, I think Oprah's network was who came back and was the highest bidder, but there was more marketing budget with USA from what I was told.

Okay, and so that's where we landed with reruns on Bravo and E.

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Wow.

Okay, so then, and so the because I never watched the show ever, so the show just follows your whole family, your siblings and everything.

So, did they get involved in your marriage?

Like, when did that, did they, like, how do they announce it?

Hey, yeah, now I'm married and I'm actually having a kid.

So,

actually, it was found out before the sizzle was even done because, again, when you aren't familiar with being on tv when you're wearing mics around right oh okay you forget that you're wearing mics right and you just speak like how you normally would so i'm sitting in a makeup chair getting hair and makeup and my dad and i are having a conversation and production is listening to what's on the mic right and they find out i'm pregnant and i'm married wow yeah so it like blew up the the whole spot um

I did not love being on reality TV.

And that's why Kale and I decided to start the pot.

When I left reality TV, I kind of sat out six months and I was like, I need to truly decide like what it is that I wanted to do.

I very much had a very traditional role in my marriage where I could stay at home.

Oh, okay, okay.

And I took care of my son and he went to work and came home like a very traditional life.

Right.

And I loved that.

I did not love the idea of I knew that it would catch up with my child at some point with him starting kindergarten.

I wanted him to be out of the TV world before kindergarten ever started just because kids are,

they talk, you know, and they say things.

And I watched it happen.

My son started kindergarten when my parents had just been indicted.

Oh, great.

And so little girls on the playground saying, my mom knows, you know, who your grandparents are, and we see them on the news and like all of these things.

So I wanted to try to remove that, but I still wanted to stay somewhat in the space because I do like entertainment.

Yeah.

But I was not okay with the idea of having a production team tell me what the actual narrative of something was that wasn't.

And that's why I love podcasts.

Right, because it's freedom.

I have freedom to control my story.

Because, like you said, I mean, obviously, I don't think people really realize who are not involved in reality TV that like I could say one thing.

And then if these higher up producers don't really want to go with that route of the story or they want to twist it.

Yeah, then they will.

And then you're kind of at the mercy of whatever's ends up on TV because it's not like we get to watch each episode and kind of say, yeah, that's cool.

That's like, we don't get any say-so in what's air on TV.

So we have to like just kind of throw our hands up.

Well, and it's hard because after you have filmed something, and you guys know this all too well, you film something and it's cut and sliced to benefit whatever might not even be your producer, but it is an exec that's at the network that's like, hey, this is what we're going to use.

And it's like a snippet of a conversation and not the full picture and that's why i like the podcast world because you have actual control to share everything that you want to share and it's not twisted and it's not turned and it's straight from your voice you have more creative control which is well really trust me if we had creative control oh yeah with the show things would be a lot different with team on if we had a little bit more well because you get to you get to control your authentic story and like this is the real story yeah i also feel like though because so since so you were actually on this show, you said kindergarten, so you had to have been on it for what, four years?

Yeah, I was on it, yeah, for five seasons.

Okay, and was your husband involved in that?

Very minimally.

Okay.

He got a job straight out of college and worked nine to five.

And so you guys know with a production schedule.

And then my parents lived in Georgia when the show started and then ended up moving to Tennessee to Nashville.

And so then that required travel for the show.

So it became very hard because i'm not there every single day so then it became very um

structured and storyline okay of this is what you're participating in instead of it being actual real life so it never felt authentic real yeah right right because it's like okay well you're coming here for these dinner scenes and for this play date and for this sleepover and

it just didn't feel it wasn't authentic it didn't feel you're not aligned I mean, you're not aligned with reality in that point because you're just kind of doing a job.

I'm like, with my family, which is my family, my real family, which makes it even weirder because I'm assuming your other siblings are all involved in this too.

So, are you close with them?

Are you like, I'm not, you're not at all?

I'm not close.

Are you sure you're estranged from all your siblings?

From all of my siblings, I am.

I just think that that, and it's nothing negative against them.

I think that we can live in the same space and entertainment.

My sister also has a podcast.

Oh, okay.

We can can live in the same space doing the same things and not necessarily agree or align.

And it's no hate.

It's no ill will.

It's just, we don't serve each other in each other's lives.

Yeah.

And do you feel, do you feel like the show contributed to that?

I do.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I do.

You guys have probably experienced some of that with other cast members.

You guys can probably relate where certain people get more airtime than others.

And,

you know, it's like,

okay, I put in x amount of time so i should be getting that too season i believe it was season five the producer that was um that i worked with on the show had come to me and my ex-husband now my ex-husband he was not my ex-husband at the time but um came to us and asked if we would be willing to take some of the episodes for storyline b

and because they had it set up like storyline a and storyline b for every episode really so they had oh wow that's that's way different than 19 mountain.

Yeah, that's way different.

Actually, I want to talk about that with y'all in just a second.

So, my dad was not okay with that.

He was like, no, we're not going to do that.

We're going to continue running things the way that they have been running.

And so it just never felt truly authentic to me because my husband wasn't involved.

And that was my life at the time.

And so when I'm not showing that part, it almost allowed me to live a double life.

Yeah, right, right.

Or kind kind of condoned it.

It felt like that in a sense, because it was like, I'm doing all of these things without my husband, and then I'm going back home, and it's a completely different life than what I'm doing on TV.

So, did you feel a disconnect?

Like, you had to have felt some kind of huge disconnect from, oh, here I am in my real life, in my real house with my husband and my child and my real family.

And then I got to do this weird, I mean, you had to have felt a tug of war.

And also, I feel like it would make you feel like not mentally.

Yeah.

Like, oh, I was not identity.

You you know, yeah, like it would mess with your mental, like, health.

I feel like then you start questioning everything, like, what am I really, what do I really want to do?

What, what, what are these intentions?

Are they pure?

Are they not?

That would, like, literally, that would drive me nuts.

So, for

the biggest portion of the show that I participated in was around 20, between 2015 and 2017.

I filed for divorce for the first time in 2017 and took my son, his name's Jackson, to Nashville and lived with my parents for a little while

and was still actively filming.

That did feel most authentic to me because I was there every day.

Right.

And my parents were walking through what I was going through with me every day.

Was that covered on camera, though, like the divorce and all that kind of stuff?

Or was it?

Me telling my parents that I was going to get a divorce, yes.

And then I kind of want to speak on

how we did our interviews.

And I don't know, y'all do,

what is it called?

Like, the

diary cams, which I love y'all's diary cams, by the way.

Um, we did not do it like that.

So, to answer your question about covering it on the show, they did a scene in my parents' living room with me walking in and telling them that I was getting divorced.

Okay.

And

that was very hard for me because I felt like Everybody else got to do the fun things on the show that weren't heavy.

And then to have me go in and tell my parents that I was getting divorced.

It just always felt like I was a part of a heavy story.

More controversial, more

or harder things going on in my life.

It's like, oh, wow, look at I'm the kid, and everything is hard in my life.

Yeah, or be had fun on your ski vacation that you filmed, and I got to come in here and tell you that even my whole life story.

I could see where, yeah.

And that just made it like really, really hard.

So

I always asked production, hey, like when we are doing these heavier scenes, can we please schedule the interviews that are consistent with these scenes that you guys are going to need during that week?

Because once that scene is over, emotionally, you go through all these emotions and especially with like divorce, right?

So I was so back and forth with my ex-husband that I didn't even really know if it's what I wanted.

It felt like it was the right thing that I needed to do.

And I knew that I needed to make some type of forward progress.

Right.

So even if it was the wrong choice, at least I was walking through those emotions and it didn't feel permanent because it's like, okay, well, this is just a divorce filing.

If I really don't want this, I don't have to follow through with it, but I'm going to see how I feel once I file for it.

I leave.

We're disconnected.

All of these things.

I go and do this scene.

And it's not until seven days later that they film the interview.

And I'm already like, I don't think I want to get divorced.

Right.

I'm totally right.

Yeah.

You need to catch it in the moment.

Like not.

Yeah.

Like the diary cam, I feel like would have been great for something like that to kind of follow the following days of that instead of doing a sit-down interview.

And so I get into it with production because I'm like, I'm not in the same place as what I was when I did that scene.

Right.

And therefore, this does not feel authentic.

And I'm a fraud for coming on here and saying what I am currently saying so that it matches with this scene.

Because now I'm lying.

Now I'm lying.

And the production wanted you, obviously, to like pretend that you were still wanting the divorce and stuff.

Yes, that's

yeah, that is

and so.

So, okay, so you and your husband got divorced, but was that because

you think the show had a role to play in that at all?

Um, I don't.

I think some of just my actions, my mindset, the life that I was living versus what he was living was just not aligning.

And I, do I think that we would be divorced today if I never got into entertainment?

No, I don't think we would.

Really?

But I think because

I

did the TV show,

that started separating our lives.

He was living a corporate life, doing all of the corporate things.

I had a little bit of resentment for that because I'm like, if this TV thing goes away, he has built like all of these years in the corporate world.

And then I'm going to have nothing.

And my investment's not going to pay off.

Yeah.

I get that.

So then there was like resentment that was starting to build there.

And I traveled with my son went with me everywhere for filming the show until it was time for him to start kindergarten.

So, not only was I filming the show, I was taking him everywhere with me.

Yeah.

And so, there's a lot, too.

A lot of resentment that was being built.

And then, when I started the podcast, it was okay at first because I was home more.

And I do feel like I had more control over what I was doing.

But at the same time, it still was a division of like our lives didn't, they no longer aligned.

So, did your husband support the podcast?

He did.

Okay, okay.

He was in full support of me doing the podcast.

He was not in support of me doing the TV show at all.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

At all.

So he felt like it was not a good idea for you to keep doing the show.

Yeah, he did not.

It sounds very toxic.

Yeah.

And it almost sounds like, it almost sounds like unnecessary, like, like, almost like tug of war.

Like, your family wants you to be this certain thing, and you're like, okay,

I'll do it, but I'm not, but I will.

Cause, you know, it's like, how do you even know or be able to differentiate what's authentic to me and what's not?

It almost would, to me, it almost feels it'd create some kind of identity issue.

Like, I don't even know.

I did have that.

Yeah, like, what's real?

Who am I?

What, what do I really want?

Because now I'm all confused.

And I, you got everything coming in different ears.

Like, that's got to be like stressful.

Well, I wanted to fit into both places.

And

I think just a child coming from divorce, my parents divorced whenever I was six years old, and they had a very toxic divorce.

Like, they still hate each other today and they've been divorced for like your biological mom.

Yeah.

Okay.

And I think, just like from that, and knowing that I wanted, I put so much pressure on myself in my marriage from

never wanting to be my parents in that situation.

And then watching my marriage slip away because I'm choosing to be on this show with my family and then wanting to fit in with my family, but also wanting to be the wife that I needed to be to my husband.

I did feel

like pulled both ways.

That is horrible.

And I don't necessarily think that they,

I don't think if you asked my ex-husband today,

do you feel like you were pulling her?

He would probably say no.

If you asked my parents today if they felt like they were pulling me, I think they would say no.

I think it was an internal struggle that I was dealing with trying to participate in both of those things in my life.

Well, did you, did you ever mention to your dad or anyone, like, hey, this is feeling really not good for me?

No.

Wow.

I wonder what there were, like, I wonder

all your other siblings who were involved in the show, obviously, did you ever tell any of them?

No, but I think that they were just in such different life phases than what I was dealing with.

So, my sister was still in high school.

Okay.

Um,

she did the show until 2022 or 2020.

Oh, not that long ago.

Yeah, wow, yeah, not that long ago.

2023, March 1st.

Wow, yeah,

so much.

I thought this was older.

Yeah.

Like, it just went on for a really long time.

Wow.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah.

So I think that they were just in completely different life phases.

They weren't having to navigate a marriage.

And it's very different navigating a marriage than it is being in a relationship with someone.

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So are they, so, and you said you don't talk to any of them anymore?

And is that because they, like, do they, what do they blame you in any kind of way for like pulling out and saying that was, or what, what, what's the reason for the estrangement?

I think that there's just a lot of resentment.

There was a scandal that I was involved in that was a sex tape scandal.

So, like, okay, sex tape scandal, what does that mean?

Like, what, like, because that's different for a lot of people.

Like, Farrell tried saying it was, she was going to have a sex tape scandal.

And then you watched it, and you're like, Yeah, what's not?

This is a totally like produced porn.

So, what is this?

Okay,

lay it on me, girl, lay it on me.

The tea.

So, yes, when my parents were indicted in 2019,

a couple of days after they were indicted, I was contacted at roughly, it was like 4 a.m., 3 a.m.

from TMZ.

Oh,

and they were like, hey, we have a police report that you filed regarding threats for a sex tape.

Oh.

Oh, so you've already filed.

Yeah, because I had been made aware.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

So I went and per my attorney's advice.

Yeah.

He was like, go and file an informational report in your county.

Like, you don't need to do anything with it.

But if anything does come about this, at least it's documented.

So it's not like you're backtracking on something to say, oh, well, I was already knowledgeable about this.

Let it be known on paper that you were knowledgeable about.

There was no charges that I was trying to press, like, nothing like that.

It was just strictly like an informational report that I had been made aware of.

I've never even heard of an informational report before.

Yeah, so it's kind of like a paper trail.

Like, yeah, don't all of a sudden it gets leaked somewhere, and now you're trying to backtrack and say, Oh, I was aware that they had this or they threatened me with it.

Exactly.

Yeah, you're on it.

So I get contacted.

I'm assuming that what happened is that once my parents were indicted, they started looking into all kinds of stuff and people started leaking stuff to media outlets.

TMZ got this, and

I shit my pants because I was like, oh shit, I only filed this as an informational report.

Like, I never wanted anybody to know anything about this.

While I was separated from my now ex-husband, I dated a guy who was on the bachelorette.

Okay.

I spent the night at one of my ex-best friend's house.

She had a dog cam in one of the bedrooms.

Weird.

Oh my God.

Yes.

And

supposedly was trying to shop a dog cam video of me and him.

He had just come off of JoJo Fletcher's season of The Bachelorette.

He was the runner-up of that season.

And I think because I was still on the show or had just recently been on the show and he had just come off that season that I don't know somebody maybe thought they were gonna make money off of this right

and

that's how it came about wow this is your ex-best friend my ex-best friend so she secretly put a camera in your bedroom that you were sitting in just in the hopes that she would actually

act you guys doing something and then did and then is trying to leak it but you're saying doggy cam like what is well she claims She claims that she never had the video.

That's what she told the FBI because we were all interviewed by FBI.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

She claims that she never had the video, and that if she did ever have the video, then it would have been deleted because it was on a puppy cam that she had for her dogs in her house.

And that it deleted every like 30 days or something.

Yeah, to like free up storage or whatever.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

That story just doesn't math to me.

No, the math ain't math and I'm that one.

And so I went to the FBI because I was like, hey, if there is something like this out there, I need to know about it.

Like, I have a child.

I've also now reconciled at this point with my ex-husband.

Oh, wow.

What do you mean?

Reconcile the guy back together.

Yeah, we got back together.

Oh, my.

Oh, my God.

All right.

The last thing you need.

This is a little.

Oh, my God.

I don't need this shit.

Yeah.

Him seeing me having sex with someone on a fucking puppy cam video.

Right.

That's not healthy for anybody.

Him, you, your child, your family.

Nobody.

No.

So I go to the FBI and I'm like, hey, this needs to be fully investigated.

And if there is a tape, there does not need to be a tape.

I never consented to a tape.

I never knew that I was being videoed on a tape.

Like,

was I having consensual relations?

Absolutely.

But was I consenting to anybody filming anything?

Absolutely not.

Wow.

So they kind of called all parties and everybody had a very different story.

Local law enforcement called multiple people.

Multiple people then got attorneys involved, which is a very much a red flag.

Yeah, huge red flag.

When you say you're going to come in for an interview with the police and then the next day you have an attorney call and say your client's not coming in for an interview, that tells me that there maybe was something.

Yes.

Right.

So all of that was transpiring.

Media catches hold of all of this.

So my parents have this indictment that's come down and now this sex tape.

And this is within days of each other.

So yes, it caused a huge divide in my family and I just wanted absolutely nothing to do with it.

I'm like, I just want to do my podcast.

Yeah.

And I just want to be with my husband and live a life and

like not be doing this.

And I don't know, and maybe you guys would feel like this.

If you ever were not on teen mom,

you would not there is a price that you pay when you're on TV that you have to deal with a little bit of shit in the media, right?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah, and your job is never done.

Yeah, never.

It's 24-7, 365.

100%,

but you're being paid.

So that is a cost that comes along with it, right?

Yeah.

If you were no longer being paid by a teen mom, would you want it to be a little bit more silent and less people talking?

Or would you be okay with people doing the same stuff that they do now with you guys actively on TV?

No, I'd be like, no, everyone, shut up, friend.

We're done.

We're done with it.

I'm done.

Yeah, done with it.

And that's how I felt.

Yeah.

I'm like, if you want to tune in to my podcast because you liked what you saw on Christly Knows Best or you followed me because of that show, and I will always give credit to Christly Knows Best, regardless if I liked it or I didn't and have mixed feelings about it.

There was good that came out of it, right?

I would have never had the platform to be able to do the podcast or ever be able to meet Kill if it wasn't for reality TV.

So I will credit reality TV for that and my launching point.

Yeah.

But it was toxic toxic to me, and I would never want to be involved in that ever again.

I love the way that you guys film.

And I told Kale that from the time that I became friends with her and became aware of how y'all's production is.

Yeah.

Y'all's crew is so much smaller.

Yeah.

And you guys document it as a docuseries style.

And you also do the diary cams, which I love.

And I think it brings like the reality aspect to reality TV.

Yeah, yeah, this is actually real, our real life to go behind and film ourselves how we feel, what just happened.

But I feel like your experience was like,

it sounds very toxic and toxic, manipulative.

Just like, I don't even know how you could have survived more than one season because that sounds like, oh my God.

And then, especially having your whole family on top of it, almost pressuring you to keep doing it.

Like, that's like,

I'm sad that you had that.

I wish the production would have been different.

Because what channel was it on?

Or what?

USA.

Okay.

God, it's like, what is and that just made me, when you were explaining all of that, I was like, wow, I'm so blessed that we film a docuseries.

Well, and even, even though it's hard filming a docuseries, because there's so much

real to that and emotions to that, right?

That we kind of were able to manipulate and avoid in the way that we filmed, at least you're filming.

actual truth, right?

It's authentic.

Right.

And it's authentic and you can look back on it and say, you know what?

It Wasn't my greatest moment, but it was honest.

Right.

And it's just what was really happening in my life.

Yeah.

So you said this ex-best friend, obviously, you're not friends with this person.

Absolutely not.

I would not.

Because my whole thing is that when you filed that report, how were you even aware to file the report?

I just went to my local police department.

No, but how did you even know to do that?

Who did I do?

I had an attorney at that point because I had already left Christily Knows Best.

So I had to hire an attorney to get out of my contract because they did not want me to be able.

I don't know if it was, I don't want to blame anyone on this podcast, but I don't know who was responsible between the production company, network, family.

They did not want me to be able to use my last name and anything else business related.

That's my last name.

Wow.

Not on the show because they were claiming rights to that last name.

And so I had to hire an attorney to fight for me for me to be able to use my last name on coffee combos wow that is ridiculous but like how did you get a word that there was a poss a possible tape like how did that was from tmz right no no because they got the report so how did you even know to file the report is what i'm saying my dad actually told me he did yeah your dad told you that what that there's a sex tape yeah how did he know that my ex-best friend had reached out to my brother to let him know and tried to sell it to him tried to sell it to your brother what the fuck yeah and your brother never told you?

No, because we were not in contact at that time.

I don't, I pretty much would contact my sister if someone's like, hey, I gotta, I'm like, oh, hey, sis, I don't even talk in a minute, but holy shit, you're like, you're titty, you're a kid.

You're not getting your friend just wrote.

Right.

I'm like, okay, I'm mind-blown that the fact that there you are literally surrounded by betrayal.

Like, I don't know if that's it.

I'm like that your whole life.

Like, I'm like, wow.

That's all it sounds like to me.

Like, everyone that was supposed to be

protect you and support you.

Yeah.

Like, what the fuck?

Like, that's mind-blowing.

i think um

with tv

there was always somewhat of issues because it was a blended family and i think that there's always going to be issues when a family is blended and the work's not done

when you do that right

that's actually been a really hard problem with me with dating and being so intentional about people who also have children like could i put myself in a situation to fully blend this in the way that it needs to be blended for this to be able to work?

Because it's not the same as having biological children.

Right.

Right.

Like you guys have biological children, you only have biological children, and you are married.

Right.

It would be different.

And so I think that my parents got divorced when I was six years old, and both of my parents were already with someone else by the time their divorce was final.

Oh, wow.

And there was already a child on the way.

Holy shit.

And so

while I don't think, I don't, I don't hold any resentment towards my parents for doing that because I try to put myself in their shoes.

And I'm like, you know what?

They were just truly trying to like move on and do the best that they could with what they had to do it with at that time.

Would I make the same decisions?

No, because I haven't.

But also, would I have made some of the same decisions that they made if I didn't have that trauma?

Yeah.

From that time.

Right, exactly.

I literally, while you're talking, I was thinking in my head, I'm like, you went through a lot of trauma.

Yeah,

and you're only six years old when that first happened, so then you're witnessing this divide, and you're almost too young to even understand fully what the hell it's going to happen.

You have to comprehend, like,

your brain's not developed enough to be able to comprehend what's actually going on.

So, it was almost like a family was split,

and then other families were created within that split simultaneously.

Right.

And then it's, I always say, kids are collateral damage in a divorce, right?

Because

parents are going to move on.

Right.

Like, you get divorced inevitably.

You're eventually going to move on.

May not be immediate, but you're going to move on.

And you've got the kids there that are stuck between those parents.

Yeah.

And that's hard.

And was, so was, was, um,

was your mom involved at all with the show at all?

Not at all.

Okay.

She wasn't involved at all.

No.

Wow.

And how do you feel like your relationship with her going through all this scandals and all that stuff?

How did, how, did you feel supported by her?

I did.

I have a very different relationship with her because she did not raise me and she was not in my everyday life.

That was my question.

I know in the beginning you said, like, how your stepmom adopted you.

So I was curious, like, if your mom was involved in your life ever since you were little or it stopped after they got a divorce.

So she was in my life pretty consistently until I was in fifth grade.

And we're originally from South Carolina.

So my dad relocated to Atlanta.

And at that point,

I hardly ever saw her.

If it was, it was like on random weekend.

So he had primary custody.

And it was just like we were like this whole new family, right?

Wow.

And that's very hard.

I think that my brother probably turned to substances

when he got older because he could not deal with the trauma.

And maybe that was his coping way.

Not to excuse it.

So how old was he when this happened?

You're six and five.

Okay, he was five.

So he's also a little younger.

But my thing is, okay, so your mom

let full custody happen with your dad?

Like there was no custody battle?

There was.

Oh, there was.

Okay.

There was a custody battle.

I don't know if you guys are familiar with custody situations, but there was something called a guardian ad litem that was hired.

And ultimately, they decided that my dad's home was the better home for us to be at.

Wow.

So I don't know the complexities of that situation.

Again, I was only six, seven.

A tiny little child.

Yeah.

So I don't really know what was going on.

I only remember like this woman coming to both of my parents' houses and watching my parents individually like interact with us.

Okay.

And then we would go off with her and she would, you know, like ask us questions or like take us to get ice cream or whatever.

And it was, it felt like a long period of time, but I don't really know if I understood.

the length of time at that point.

So it could have been like a month.

I don't know.

But then ultimately it was decided that we were going to live with my dad.

And you never asked your mom after all this happened, like, hey, what really happened?

Like, why did we not, why did you not get custody?

Why did you not, I mean, you know, fight more or come see me more?

Like, did that ever get like addressed between you and her?

Yeah.

So when I finally was able to

fully address it with her because I never wanted to address it with her until I was ready to do that.

Absolutely.

I was not willing to have conversations.

That's your right.

That's your right.

Frustrated and mad

and hurt.

Yeah, because I think every child wants to be with their mother.

Well, when you were saying, when you were explaining all of that, like I couldn't imagine just being a six-year-old child and having this mom for six years, and then all of a sudden she's gone and I'm taken from her, and I don't have any of the answers to why.

That's super traumatic in itself.

That's actually why I loved y'all's story on teen mom with Carly because I just feel like that's such a healthy decision, as hard as that decision is to make.

If you cannot raise children in a healthy environment and you're not ready to do so, it is best for them to go somewhere where they can be fully healthy and whole.

Yeah, I mean, especially because we were, I mean, we were obviously surrounded by, you know, just

chaos and evictions and drugs and all that kind of stuff.

But it sounds like you growing up, your family was pretty stable.

Like, as far as financially, no one was alcoholics.

There was no domestic violence or anything.

So it's just kind of sounds like

i mean i'm just kind of confused on on where

your mom's role in in all this was when all this was going on yeah she very much um

stepped away i think and accepted defeat okay and that was hard for me to come to the realization whenever i did and i didn't until i was like 20 years old wow um i don't know if it was that i didn't want to know it or i just like wasn't ready to accept it or maybe not ready to address it.

I could never imagine being in that situation now that I am a mother, but I also give her a little grace just knowing the dynamic of the situation with her and my dad.

And I feel like she has done her time

in the sense of dealing with the trauma that I have and my brother has.

She's had to deal with that in very different ways.

Oh, I have.

Well, right, because is your brother still actively?

Is he still like having issues or

some legal issues, but not substance.

Okay, so he's sober, as far as you know, as far as I know, he's sober, but there have, there have just been things like that she has missed out on so much in life, and I had to accept through therapy that

because she missed out on those things, she can never get them back.

Yeah, and relationship that I think she longs for today is something that she forewent then.

And those are just things that once it's gone, the time's gone.

You know, it's like I'm never going to be seven again.

Right.

I'm never going to be 13 and starting my period.

Right, right.

Or going to my first high school dance with a date and going to pick out dresses with your mom and all those things that you miss out on.

And all those things that you actually like went through.

Like, were you close with your stepmom at that point through all that stuff?

I was.

And she was a very good stepmother.

And she stepped in in the ways that my dad allowed her.

But I do hold a little resentment towards my dad for him not allowing her to be the mother to me that she could have been because he definitely had parameters.

Why is he setting boundaries around his children?

So

she was never allowed to discipline us.

So if we ever did anything, like

let's say we were out shopping or something and she had all of the kids.

If I did something, then it was a required call to him or for him to address it whenever I got home.

She was never allowed to take that on, which made me automatic.

And I don't think he did it.

I think he felt like, okay, these are my children and I want to be the one doing that.

But I don't think that he realized during that time, because I think he was still growing.

I mean, he was 21 whenever I was born.

I think he was still growing just like I was a growing kid, right?

And so I think if he did it differently now, he would be like, I would have allowed her to do that because then Lindsay would have felt like she was a part of the other kids.

But when she's reprimanding her birth children, and then not me, yeah, and then I have to go home and then deal with my dad, it just felt like a divide, and it creates it actually maintains a disconnect at all times.

Almost, it's like, uh,

you know, kids, obviously, no kid likes to be punished or disciplined, but on the other side of that, the discipline you know is coming from care, and so it's like it would have been beneficial for you because you would have felt like, you know, I know I don't, no one likes being punished, obviously, but like you would have known you're you care about me, that's why you want to discipline me and make sure you correct me or whatever.

And the fact that you had to just sit there, like,

wait for your dad or whatever.

That's like, that was.

That's also torture.

Yeah, yeah.

I got to wait for my inevitable, you know, ass beaten or whatever.

You know what I mean?

You know, it's like everybody says from the south, wait until dad gets home.

Yeah.

Like, there is no worse fear

other than the fear of God.

Right.

Right.

Than dad coming home.

And my dad's name's Todd.

I always say the fear of God and fear of Todd.

Like,

yeah.

Okay.

So, how many many

between your, you know, your biological mom and your and your dad, how many kids do they have together?

Just me and my brother.

Okay, and then, so, okay, so the other ones are, okay, got it.

All right.

The other three are with my dad and my stepmom, but I don't really know, like, she's my adoptive mother.

I know.

Even though she is my stepmom, she did adopt me.

Yeah.

So, and you consider that's your mom?

Because I don't want to get language on that.

Yeah, is that a hard thing for you to learn?

It is a hard thing.

I felt the need to do it i didn't do that and make that decision to get adopted until i was an adult

oh i was 19 years old whenever i did that oh really elaborate on okay so you didn't you you waited the whole time until 19 and you asked her to to adopt you because i don't believe that my biological mom would have ever agreed to that outside of me being an adult to make that decision on my own yeah

um and it felt at the time that i did it it felt like i was for the first time in control of something in my life

and made me feel like if I do this on paper, my birth certificate will be destroyed.

So all of my stuff will look exactly like the other kids.

Yeah.

And we will all be just one.

Right.

But it never,

nothing ever really changed from that.

Which is why I think I now hold the mentality of I don't have to ever be married again because

what does the paper mean to me?

Because when you did the paper, paper, it didn't really change anyway.

It didn't change anyway.

But so the paper, you even wanting and having a desire to do that, you know, get that paperwork done, obviously shows that you yearned for this to all feeling.

Yeah, and to be of one family and connection and yeah, support.

So, I mean,

was your dad kind of aware that you felt any disconnect or,

you know, like just a difference from the other kids?

Have you ever expressed that to him?

Um,

no.

so you literally walked around as a child with this inside the whole time.

And my dad would probably say today, Lindsay handled the divorce much differently.

My brother's name's Kyle.

Lindsay handled the divorce much differently than Kyle.

You could tell all the issues that Kyle was having because they were outwardly expressed, like whether it be an anger or trouble in school or substance or like whatever those things were.

I just kind of sucked it up and was like, this is my life and I'm just supposed to accept it.

And as long as I don't have feelings about it and I don't say anything about it, then it just like won't be real.

That is so sad.

Well, it's that self-betrayal.

And I think when you live so many years, you know, self-betraying yourself,

no wonder you end up getting older and like almost just having this identity.

Like, I don't even know.

It is an identity crisis.

Yeah, it's an identity crisis.

I don't know who I am because I spent so much time self-betraying in order to maintain this, you know, facade of I'm okay and everything's fine.

Don't worry about me.

But it's like, that's heavy.

That's heavy stuff to carry around as a kid.

It is very heavy, and I don't think that I realized the heaviness until I became a mother myself.

Isn't it weird how you become a mom and it's like a parent they hit certain ages and then it'll bring up traumas from your childhood that you were like, oh my gosh, I thought I worked on that or I didn't think that was an issue.

And then they get to the age where something happened to you and it's just you're flooded with all these feelings.

So you've experienced that too?

Yes, I have.

100%.

Yeah, actually, I feel like we experience it kind of, we don't know when the next bomb's going to drop because they get to certain ages.

And then you get like this feeling of like, you get either flashbacks or you get a little bit of PDSD or a little bit of like, oh my God, like I got to like do this and figure and save this.

But it's like, no, it's not an issue.

This is a you thing.

Like, but it brings up a lot of stuff from when you were a kid raising your own kids.

Yeah.

And then also it's hard to like.

I mean, there's a period of time when you have your own children that you kind of get a little mad at your parents for a minute because you're like, dang, now I know what this feels like.

And you let this happen when I was that age?

Like, how the hell did you do that?

Because the love I have for this kid is, how did you even, how were you able to do that?

And it kind of your situation reminds you a little bit of your dad being in Florida and you were saying stuff like, you know,

he knew you were at home with your mom dealing with all that stuff.

And I wondered if your mom ever knew what was going on with, you know, with you at home if she never like, obviously.

I think she did.

She did.

Okay.

Yeah.

So that's kind of interesting that

i don't think that it was necessarily aware of the complexities of the things that were going on i think it was

the defeat and i think once it's an out of sight out of mind situation some people can do that right where it's like

i would never be able to i know that's because i'm a mom yeah you know and it's like some people do and yeah it's mind-blowing isn't it because you're a parent you're like dude mom how did you do that how did how did you how did you sleep at night how did you do all these things i can't i can't i can't yeah because we always talk about like there's certain things that like her dad didn't move to Florida and started his whole family all over again.

And she was left with her mom.

And it was like, how do you even like, you know, I even asked her when we were getting to know each other, I was like, did your dad ever like send you Christmas gifts?

And she's like, no.

And I'm like, that's so weird that you can just like just close off and then jump over here and then forget that it ever happened.

But it's like give a whole, a whole damn child out

somewhere.

Yeah.

Like, it's insane.

I don't know how

I could ever.

and it's hard to give grace in those situations when you can't understand it, right?

Yeah, yeah, it's really hard.

You know, I can't understand ever doing that.

So I don't know how to give forgiveness in a situation that I can't understand.

It's hard to sympathize if I can't wrap my head around it.

It is.

And it's hard to have empathy in those situations because you know that it's just something that you never could imagine yourself doing.

And so that's definitely something that I struggled with as a child, knowing that I couldn't imagine.

And I just know as a mother in a co-parenting situation where I'm sharing 50-50 custody, right?

I know that my child sometimes longs for me and it literally breaks my heart, but there's nothing that I can do about it.

And I know that I'm just going to give him as much love as I possibly can when I get him next.

Yeah.

I could not imagine like my mom moving across the country.

and

only seeing us on like holidays.

Oh, I would literally go insane.

I know.

What do you just go crazy?

I would go insane.

It's one of those things, too, where it's like, did you even really, did you have that yearning for your mom?

I think that I probably subconsciously did, but I don't think that I consciously did.

I think that I was just doing every day.

I think it's.

I think you were trying to survive.

Yeah.

I think that's probably what it was.

And I don't want to say that

my dad did anything intentionally.

I think he also was trying to survive in that situation.

And I think he had good intentions.

I think he's like, okay, this is a good woman.

And she's pregnant.

And now we have kids.

And we're going to be like this one happy family.

And it's like these rose-colored glasses.

Yeah.

And because I saw him doing that, I never wanted to bring issue to anything.

It's just like, okay, this is what we're doing.

And which again sounds like self-betrayal.

You're kind of like, okay, I don't want to ruffle anything.

This sounds great.

All right, dad, you got it.

We'll continue to do all this.

But did your dad ever, do you think your dad ever tried to bridge the gap?

I do.

Okay.

So he tried to get you, I mean, you and your mom to

be in the business.

Because I think you're right when you talk about like, you know, your dad just doing,

doing the best he can with what he knows.

It's almost like that saying where they say, like, maybe give your parents grace because they were just doing it for the first time too, not knowing what was going on.

And that, when I saw that once, it hit me i was like wow yeah because you really think about it like that like me being the first time parents that we are i've never done this in another life or that i remember ever doing it's all new to me too i saw something about that yesterday and it was talking about how

you only know your parents as parents, right?

And your whole life, they have been your parents, but they had a life before you.

And their whole life, they were not parents.

Right?

Right.

They were a wild little kid one time.

They had a lot of people.

Right.

It's so weird to think about.

Yeah.

And so I just feel like through therapy, I've been able to under, not that I can understand, I think understand is the wrong word.

I can give grace to that situation because my parents were just kids raising kids.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And not that it excuses certain things and not that it did not give me childhood traumas.

But it's okay.

Yeah.

Because it doesn't affect me every day like it once did.

So you're saying it did once affect you.

I mean, so you, when did you start going to therapy?

I didn't start going to therapy until after the whole sex tape scandal.

Wow.

Okay.

I laid in bed for Chris and

I was like not well for, was it like six months?

Yeah.

Yeah.

It was like six to eight months that I would literally wake up, take my child to school.

get him off, act like happy mom,

come back home.

If I had to podcast, I would podcast, I would take a bath, and I would go to bed.

Wow.

Because you were actually generally tired.

Yes.

You were depressed.

So I was.

Yeah.

And I didn't even know what depression was.

I felt like that sounds

because it was like,

and they, Kate explained it in a way that I felt like I didn't really understand

depression in her looks different than it does in me.

And so when I was like, how could you be so tired and sleep all the time?

And it's like one of those things where it's like, I had to get educated on like what depression actually looks like.

And it's like, Kate,

I would rather sleep my life away than feel any of these feelings.

Same feeling.

Yeah.

That's how I felt.

When I tell you that all of this stuff went down in July, August,

and I woke up sometime, I felt like I woke up from July, August, and October.

Okay.

And

my now ex-husband was like, you have to get help.

Oh, so he actually recognized it.

He was watching this and witnessing it.

Sometimes we need that, though, for you know,

I mean, I needed that.

I needed that from you.

Yeah, and I didn't even know how to, you don't know how to, you don't know how to bring it up as a spouse.

I don't know.

I don't want it to hurt my feelings.

That's exactly what it is.

Yeah, and I don't, I also don't want to, like, I just,

it's a touchy, sensitive thing.

And it's like, you're also a mom, and I don't know, and you're a new mom, so that's exhausting.

And I don't know, you know, if it's just that.

And like, so you don't, you don't even know how to approach it because you don't want to hurt their feelings.

But do you feel like

when he brought up to you, did you kind of like deny it?

Did you like, what are you talking about?

No.

Okay, so I was self-aware that it was going on.

I don't think I was self-aware of how much I was staying in my room and how much I was sleeping, but I was self-aware of what I was feeling, which was

defeat,

alone.

Like I would feel if I was around people, I would still feel alone.

Like I could be in a crowded room and feel like I was by myself.

Did you have any anxiety during that time?

Yeah, I've always had anxiety.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I imagine the life that you had, you've had anxiety because I think even being a little kid and self-betraying, in my opinion, looks like anxiety for kids.

And the kids don't even know that they're having anxiety, right?

But they're just kind of trying to survive.

And I almost feel like with your story so far, it just sounds like you were almost forced on both sides to just kind of always

be robotic and not

like engage in what you're really feeling.

It was more or less emotionally monitoring, making sure, making sure we're good, we're good.

Even

when you talk about getting up and taking your kid to school and kind of putting on this, I'm a happy mom, everything's great.

And then you go back to your cave and you like, you know what I mean, be the real.

Exactly right.

Yeah, like that's exhausting.

And I almost.

And then I didn't want like people on the podcast to know I was depressed.

And I had not even identified that it was depression.

Like I didn't know what it was.

And so, Kristen, it hasn't been too long since I even identified that it was actually depression.

I would say the last six months.

Yeah.

Really?

So this is actually a new like revelation for you.

Yeah.

It's that's that's huge.

Like a very new revelation.

And

I can feel it

in myself sometimes like creep back in.

And I'm like, okay, whoa.

Like I need to, I need to go to a therapy session or I need to like figure out what it get to the bottom of what's exactly going on because I never want to be back in that place that I once was.

And I think that helps.

Like the more that we learn and we learn about ourselves and therapy and the things you do, you end up becoming more and more self-aware.

And you can just like, even for me now, I can notice little things that I'm like, oh, yeah, I need to call my therapist and my psychiatrist and we need to have a meeting and I need to go back to therapy.

Yes, like you can just tell.

And it's so much better to be able to be self-aware than end up in that spiral and just this circle and not feeling like you can't get out of it.

Well, it's a way of just being making sure you're being proactive about things because like I that sounds a lot like you when you're like, I'm like, what are you doing?

You're like, I'm having a therapy session.

I'm like, oh, well, why?

And you're like, well, I feel a little

weird.

It feels off today.

I feel something creeping in.

And it's like, it sounds like,

obviously,

when you're more self-aware, you can be more proactive.

And hopefully, it kind of minimizes that time.

So you feel it creeping in.

It doesn't fully take hold.

But

you just jump on it right when you feel it.

But I so much want to advocate for people who see somebody that is going through that to not be afraid to like help them because I can never thank my ex-husband enough for getting me help and finding my therapist because I was not able to do that for myself.

It is so important.

So important.

I mean, God, you're so right.

Because same thing, like I had postpartum depression.

I believe I had it with placing Carly.

And then I went through postpartum depression with Nova, but I didn't even know I had it until I was out of it.

And I was able to like look back and be like, holy shit, I was depressed and I did not even realize.

And I didn't realize until I was well out of like the patterns of the things that I was doing.

Like I would think crazy shit.

Like really driving down the road, like this is no joke.

And I would look at the shoulder of the road and see how close I could get to like that white line if I was on a two like car going that way.

Intrusive thoughts.

Yeah.

Like I could just beat myself off a freeway, you know, or I could hit that tree if I was going 55, or, you know, like weird shit like that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it literally, it took him.

One day he came up in my room and he's like, you're not okay.

What's going on?

You know, and then I just broke down.

Like, I don't know.

I'm feeling all these things.

And he was the one who took me to see my first psychiatrist ever.

And really, I needed him for that.

The first time I ever took my son to the movie theater, I walked to see from the top of the theater to the bottom where the exit doors were and timed myself on my phone to see how fast I could get out of there if someone shot the place up.

I think I have intrusive thoughts like that all the time.

Crazy

anxiety shit that is just,

I mean, I guess it is sad that our world has come to some of these things, right?

And it's probably like not really that realistic, or the chances of something like that happening.

It's very intrusive.

Yeah.

But like, why was I thinking these things?

Like, what the hell was going on?

I think it stems from anxiety disorders that intrusive thoughts do.

But I think you're spot on that it needs to be advocated for more of people.

If you notice something, say something.

You're not going to hurt our feelings.

If anything, you might be saving us.

Yeah, but it is really hard when you're the person watching.

It's like you don't, you don't want to be like

hurt their feelings

or be like, well, something's wrong with you.

It's like, it doesn't have to be like that.

Tyler, I would literally get my child up and put on like this whole show, like fix up up breakfast, do all of this stuff, like mom of the year, drive him to school, come back.

If I had to record, I would record.

If I did not, I would take a bath, put on a new pair of pajamas and get in my bed and sleep until it was time to get him out of school.

Wow.

That is insane.

Yeah.

And so it took your ex-husband to be like, hey, something's off.

Yeah.

And I just, I'm like, maybe was that God,

because this was after we had gotten back together.

I was like, was that God saving my life?

Because what if I went through this and I was alone?

Right.

Right.

Or with your parents in the reality show.

They would have, what if they could have just kept playing?

Well, listen, I firmly believe in divine timing.

Like, we can always, timing is always on our side, even when we feel the complete opposite.

And so maybe that was the reason why you guys are kind of rekindled, got together for that little moment.

And then for that to come to fruition, because honestly, like you know, now mental health is a work in progress constantly.

You got to constantly be checking in on yourself, being self-aware.

I mean, it's, it's a job in itself.

I always say, unfortunately, it never ends.

Yeah.

But you get new things.

It's like you learn something new.

Yes.

But you are old.

Yes.

You always learn great things, though, about yourself, which is awesome.

But we're huge advocates for therapy.

I mean, I don't care if you're the happiest person on the planet.

There's always something to gain from it.

And

who was it that was talking about therapy?

Someone was in this room last night and they were talking about...

therapy and in marriages that you should start therapy before it gets bad.

Macy.

It was Macy.

She was talking about do it before it gets bad because once it gets bad, it's too late.

Yeah.

Right.

And it's so hard to go back.

Yeah.

It's so, so hard.

And I wish that I would have done that in my marriage before it got too late.

But unfortunately, I wasn't even in personal therapy for myself.

And I'm a big advocate for being in personal therapy for yourself because when you are the best you, you can be the best you for someone else.

Yeah, we actually did both.

We did separate and then we did together when we went through all of our shit.

And I wouldn't have had it any other way.

But we made it a priority.

Like we need to be do individual therapy.

And then once a week, we would come together and do couples therapy.

And it helped a lot.

But some people,

like this old school mentality of people thinking that depression is not a real thing, it's like, I,

it's disgusting.

Yeah.

When they like, oh, just get over it.

You're fine.

No.

Sorry.

Okay, well, if it was that easy and I could just get over it, then do you think I wouldn't be fucking over it?

Right.

I would definitely do that.

Yeah.

And do you think people would be.

Do you think I would be in this cave?

Yeah.

Seriously.

Exactly.

And people would not be committing suicide if that was the case.

So I think that's a good thing.

Yeah,

there's a huge stigma still around mental health.

I think a lot of people are breaking that down little by little.

And I think it takes people talking about it.

Well, that's why I want to applaud both of you women because that's what you're doing right now.

You guys are just openly talking about having struggles with mental health on top of being moms and wives.

Like, that's huge.

Like,

10 years ago, I feel like this.

No one would accept this conversation.

They'd be criticizing the hell out of it.

No one would.

Saying you're weak.

You know what I mean?

But now

it's getting a spotlight that I think it's deserved for a long time.

So I'm glad.

Look at how much growth has come in us just talking about it.

Because I think about like my grandparents' generation.

No one talked about therapy.

Like that was not a thing.

It was like you just be better.

Well, they're like, if you go to therapy, you're already, you're too fucked up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like, yeah, or you're such a stigma.

You're a lost cause.

Yeah.

Or grandma just hides it forever and ever and then one day just explodes, you know?

So look at us just being out here, mental health advocate.

Yeah, red hand.

Thank y'all for having me.

Thanks for coming on.

I've learned a lot of things about you.

Do y'all have Instagram?

Like, oh, yeah.

I mean, obviously, like, your personal Instagrams, I know that, but like, just popping up.

Pack and Ty break it down.

Yeah.

Instagram, TikTok, all that good stuff.

Yeah.

Perfect.

Well, thanks for having me.

Well, thanks.

I appreciate it.

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