The Quest For Connection with Kristina Richie Part 2

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Speaker 1 Welcome back, everyone, to Kate and Ty Break It Down. We've got Christina back on the show to continue with her unbelievable story.

Speaker 1 So when we left off last week, your birth mom had come to your high school to find you and meet you.

Speaker 1 You met her for the first time at school and cops were called, and you got pulled out of our car and sent home.

Speaker 1 So that same day, your birth mom goes to meet your adoptive parents with their pastor, and your adoptive parents were just getting home after all of that. Christina, pick it up from here.

Speaker 2 My parents walk in. Mind you, this is the first time I've seen my dad all day.
So, like, I haven't even had a conversation with him.

Speaker 2 And the very first thing that my dad says to me is, so you want to go live with her?

Speaker 6 Oh, my God.

Speaker 6 Both of them.

Speaker 2 Like, I'm like,

Speaker 2 I'm like, yeah. And he's like, go pack your shit.

Speaker 6 And I'm like, okay.

Speaker 2 So I like got up and I go to my room and I'm like pulling out alphabets i'm like will she like this one and like i'm like how do i steal a baby book you know like i'm like i want to bring her everything i want to i want to share with her about my life right she's missed 14 years i want to show her everything you know and so i'm like i've had this stuffed animal for a long time i'm gonna take this with me i was like taking stuff that wasn't closed with me you know i'm like whatever i pack two bags and i go back out into the the hallway and i'm like okay i'm ready And my dad like looks at me and says, where the hell do you think you're going?

Speaker 2 Go put all that shit back up.

Speaker 6 You're not going anywhere. And I was like, why would you do that to me?

Speaker 6 Okay, this is so strange. It was so weird.
This is so weird.

Speaker 6 And honestly, because now you're an adult, you're a parent. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 6 Like, just hearing it, like, where is the mind, where is the mindset of like, I don't know, you know, like, it's so, it's so, it's like the thoughts that they were having just spit it out of their mouth, but like, you could have them, but maybe keep those in your mind.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I go back in my bedroom and I shut the door and I put my bags up against the door and I just cried.

Speaker 2 And I cried, I cried, and I would not come out of my room. And I remember my mom coming to my door and knocking on my door.
And she's like, Christina, are you okay?

Speaker 2 I'm like, I don't want to talk to you.

Speaker 6 Go away.

Speaker 6 Go away.

Speaker 2 I don't want to talk to you. Leave me alone.
Just leave me alone. So I stay there all night long.
I didn't come out the next morning. It was probably about one o'clock the next afternoon.

Speaker 2 My mom's knocking on my door again, like, Christina, honey, please come out and talk to us. I don't want to talk to you.
Don't talk to me. Don't, I don't, no.

Speaker 2 It's about three o'clock. She comes back and she's like, okay, listen, I talk to your dad.

Speaker 6 What if

Speaker 2 we allow your mother, which she didn't call her that, but what if we allow your birth mom to come to church with us tomorrow?

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yep. Not exactly how I wanted that to go down, but I'll take a look and get away.

Speaker 6 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 So that's what ends up happening: we go to church with her the next morning. And it's her and her two friends, and me and my parents.

Speaker 2 And I just remember my parents being really weird about her sitting anywhere near me.

Speaker 1 My parents were like, sitting next to her?

Speaker 2 No, it was really awkward.

Speaker 6 But it was so awkward. It was so awkward.

Speaker 6 All I keep thinking about all the adults that are just like prioritizing their own fears and their own feelings while you're this little kid, like, having a little bit of a bunch of people.

Speaker 6 I'm not holding it all and bananas, all of this, like,

Speaker 6 awful, dude, just awful, very awkward church service. I'm assuming.
Oh, my God. I don't remember anything.
Oh, this thing was. Oh, no.
How could you?

Speaker 2 And I remember, like, right after it got done, like, okay, now what? Right. And so then, like, I remember them kind of talking for a second.

Speaker 2 Then my parents, like, okay, like, do you guys want to go out to lunch?

Speaker 2 And I'm thinking, like, all of us?

Speaker 2 Not really, but I guess if that's all I can get,

Speaker 2 you know, so we go to this little Padero-Elaine grill right on the beach and we are eating our food. And I just, I'm not hungry.

Speaker 6 Okay. I'm just like playing with my french fries.
Like, oh my God.

Speaker 2 And it's just like normal, kind of weird conversation. Okay, whatever.
And it's my mom, her two friends, and then my parents and me. And I'm just like, this is so weird.

Speaker 2 And then towards the end of it, my mom asks my parents if she can take me for a walk on the beach.

Speaker 2 And my parents kind of like looked at each other and then they're like, yeah i guess that's fine just make it quick so we like go for a walk on the beach we go sit down on a rock and my mom pulls out her phone and she calls my biological father he didn't answer the phone so then she calls his parents they answered and she has to explain to them on the phone hey i'm sitting here with christine

Speaker 2 yeah

Speaker 6 like hey yeah right here

Speaker 2 and so as we're talking or whatever uh as she was talking to them my biological father calls back and so she answers the phone and she has to tell him like hey i'm sitting here with our daughter I'll explain it later.

Speaker 6 You want to talk to her?

Speaker 6 Poor guy, you know, like people are shooting.

Speaker 2 Like, what happened? What did I miss? You know, I'm sure that's not how he ever thought it would go down, right? So, like, what a phone call, right?

Speaker 2 So, I talked to him for like a few minutes, call back, talk to my grandparents for a few minutes, and it's time to go walk back to my parents.

Speaker 2 I remember, like, dreading the walk back to my parents because I'm like, God, because this means she's got to leave. Yep.

Speaker 6 I don't want her to leave. Right.

Speaker 2 You know, so we get back to my parents and hug goodbye. And I was like, where do we go from here?

Speaker 6 You know, like, what happens next type of a thing?

Speaker 2 And my parents are like, we'll think about it. We'll talk about it.
Well, they ultimately came up with,

Speaker 2 I was allowed to talk to her for 15 minutes on Sundays with my dad listening in on the phone.

Speaker 6 What?

Speaker 2 And I'm like, so y'all let me talk to my drug dealer boyfriend for hours on end, but I can't talk to this lady. And I literally came out of her.

Speaker 6 Like, I'm so excited. You know, and I wonder.
Like, why? Yeah, where's the body?

Speaker 1 Because the fear of just like, what are we going to do? Corrupt your mind or make you, you know what I mean? Or I don't know.

Speaker 6 It just seems, it just seems very selfish. Yeah, it was.

Speaker 6 And they admit that now. Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely admit that now. Yeah, because for the people listening, this happened so long ago.
I mean, obviously, you've 24 years ago.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 And so then they end up, and it was crazy because, you know, like, it was always this war between my birth mom and my parents because of how she showed up.

Speaker 2 And my biological dad and my parents are cool. So they invited him to come down.
He stayed at our house.

Speaker 6 What? Wow. Tell me that wasn't weird.
What? He slept on our house. So, so,

Speaker 6 but,

Speaker 6 okay, but were they talking to your bio dad the whole time too?

Speaker 2 They were talking really to his mom was like the main point of contact.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 2 But they were very much so,

Speaker 6 okay.

Speaker 2 They were very much so more like, you're the parents. We respect that.
We're only going to do what you want to do. We'll wait till she's 18.

Speaker 2 My mom was more of a boundary pusher. She was the one calling them out on their stuff.
You said I could be there. You said this was going to be open.

Speaker 2 You lied to me. Yeah, you made promises and you didn't.
You made promises that you didn't keep. Yes.
So my mom called their bluff and she showed up and she held them accountable.

Speaker 2 Biological dad's side never did that. Okay.
They had the same opinion.

Speaker 6 So

Speaker 6 they had the same opinion.

Speaker 2 They had the same story. Okay.
The story was, is that they were supposed to be there my entire life and they were cut out of that. That is a story universally.

Speaker 6 Okay. Okay.

Speaker 2 But they didn't push it. They were like, you know what? That was a decision.
That's what they chose to do. We have to respect that as the parents.

Speaker 2 But your mom was like, no my mom was like absolutely not yeah no uh uh you guys lied to me not okay you know and then my kids struggling i want to know why my kids struggling

Speaker 1 and then you go and then you go back to to her obviously struggling with mental health stuff after you being placed which is natural and that does happen totally normal yeah and then knowing you were promised all these things so then of in turn that's why we end up even placing our child with you is because you tell us all these things you say we're going to be involved in their life yeah that we're going to have contact we're never going to be cut out all these things But then you get my baby, the one thing that you only made these promises for, so you could get her in your hands.

Speaker 1 And then you change it all. So I understand from a bird in the perspective of being like,

Speaker 1 absolutely not. I'm going to show up.
I'm going to, I'm going to keep calling you out of the things that you're not doing and making you hold accountability.

Speaker 1 And yeah, they tend, then babies tend to not like us that much.

Speaker 6 Yeah, well, I also think, though, like, and you're a parent, though. So, could, like, could, I could not imagine, like, in my, in, in, um,

Speaker 6 in your biomass defense, I would have done, I couldn't imagine if they said, hey, Carly's having these mental health issues.

Speaker 6 Like, and I didn't know about it, and it was that serious. I getting in the car, and we're, you know, because it's like, it's like makes you scared.

Speaker 1 So, like, her showing up, she knows her mental health, so she went through, like, you know, could you imagine?

Speaker 6 Yeah, so I'm thinking in my head, like, okay, so she obviously, the way she showed up is why everything kind of the riff happened between,

Speaker 6 but she never would have had to show up that way. If they

Speaker 6 would have monstered the promises from the jump, absolutely, or at least said, hey, she's doing good. Yes, you can come.

Speaker 2 Well, you know what's interesting, Tyler, is that my parents were telling me that they didn't know anything about her, and they were telling her that I was hanging out with this older adopted child and I had never asked questions.

Speaker 2 So they were trying to get her to not want to come see me, and they were trying to get me to not see me.

Speaker 6 She's good, she's good, she's great, she's great.

Speaker 2 Exactly. Weird.

Speaker 6 Even though you're hanging out with a boyfriend, doing all the terrible stuff.

Speaker 2 And you know what's wild? Is as soon as she entered into my life, I stopped doing all that. I broke up with the boyfriend.
I stopped doing all the bad stuff. My grades went straight from 1.33 GP.

Speaker 2 I was about to get kicked off the cheerleading squad up to a 3.5. I was doing great.
I mean, like, that's what I needed. I needed that so badly.
I needed that. And it really did.
Like that,

Speaker 2 first of all, it should have always been there from day one, and then it wouldn't have caused all the issues that it did.

Speaker 2 And it caused a lot more issues than just that because I was not going to take 15 minutes a week.

Speaker 6 I know, right? I wasn't going to do that. After all that, too, like, dude.
No way. No way.
No way.

Speaker 2 Do you have any idea the amount of questions I had? You think I can get those answered in 15 minutes on a Sunday? Oh, no. No way.
No way. Uh-uh.

Speaker 2 And, you know, so I had a payphone booth at school.

Speaker 2 And I got $3 a day for lunch money.

Speaker 6 Right. I didn't mean to do it.

Speaker 2 I was on diet plan.

Speaker 6 I was still talking to my mama every day, diet plan.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 So I called her every day.

Speaker 2 Every single day. Soon as I got to school, recess, lunch, after school.

Speaker 6 How long did this happen for?

Speaker 2 Two years. Oh, wow.
Okay. So when I was 16,

Speaker 2 my little brother, my biological little brother, Cabe, who I still love so much to this day, all my siblings, amazing people. And it was going to be his birthday.

Speaker 2 And he told my birth mom, like, all I want for my birthday is to see my sister. And she told me that.
And guess what? It's going to happen.

Speaker 6 Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 It's going to happen. It happened to be the same weekend as homecoming dance.

Speaker 6 Oh, perfect.

Speaker 2 Dad bought me the dress and the tickets.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I had an alibi. Right, right.
Perfect. So I told my dad that I was going to leave early that day.
I was going to go to my girlfriend Courtney's house and get ready. That's what I did.

Speaker 2 So my birth mom comes down with all of my siblings and my grandmother.

Speaker 6 Oh, wow. So this is the first time you're ever meeting any of your

Speaker 2 but this was like two years later. So I had been able to go up there for like a week at a time, I think once or twice, met the family, whatever.

Speaker 2 But this was two years into it and they were still controlling every little bit of everything.

Speaker 2 And I was done letting them control it.

Speaker 6 Yeah, it's not going to happen.

Speaker 2 So it's my brother's birthday. I want to see him first birthday.
That's what he wants. I'm going to do it.
And so I told them I was going to my girlfriend Courtney's to get ready.

Speaker 2 And I'm literally driving over to the hotel that they're staying at. We're going to celebrate my brother's birthday.

Speaker 6 And I'm like, I'm golden, right?

Speaker 2 I'm there for like 45 minutes and my phone rings. And it's my dad.
And he's like, where are you? I'm like, I'm at Courtney's getting ready. He's like, that's funny.

Speaker 2 I just ran into Courtney and her mom at Costco.

Speaker 6 Oh, no.

Speaker 6 Shit.

Speaker 6 Courtney did not play in this virtue.

Speaker 6 I was like, dad, Ron Courtney.

Speaker 2 I have two friends named Courtney. You know, like, I'm like, what can I think of? You know, like, oh, crap.
So

Speaker 2 my dad's like, get home.

Speaker 6 Oh, shit.

Speaker 2 So I tell her.

Speaker 6 I'm like, don't leave. I will find another way out of the house.

Speaker 2 You know, like, don't leave. And she's like, freaked out.
She's so scared of my dad. She's terrified.

Speaker 6 Why, though? Why?

Speaker 1 Because they have the power to take you away.

Speaker 6 Yeah. I mean, yeah, but I feel like maybe there's something.
Does she like experience stuff with him? Are you your mom or something?

Speaker 2 My dad is a big guy, first of all and and he yells and he's scary in that way But like I think it was more of like she's worried about probably getting sued, you know like there's a lot going to jail

Speaker 2 like there's a lot going on here. So I'm like just stay in town.
I'll be back. She freaks out checks out of the hotel starts driving home.

Speaker 6 I go home.

Speaker 2 I'm playing it cool. I'm like dad.
I have two friends in Courtney like

Speaker 6 I was like come on.

Speaker 2 So my parents are leaving and they're going to go run errands. And so I'm like, okay, how do I get out? How do I get out? Like crap.
And my dad told me I'm not allowed to to use my car.

Speaker 2 I got my car taken away.

Speaker 6 Shit. Okay.

Speaker 2 So I'm like, I got it.

Speaker 6 I call my dad.

Speaker 2 I'm like, hey, dad. So my friend Cassie is working at the movie theater tonight.
And there's a double feature of two movies that I want to see.

Speaker 6 Cause I'm like, that buys me like six hours. This is great, right?

Speaker 2 I was like, I can get in for free. Is it cool if I go? And I know you said I can't, I use my car, but my friend Chris said that he could come get me.

Speaker 2 And it's going to be me, Chris, and Jackie, who is my little 14-year-old girlfriend who is innocent as pie and my perfect little alibi, right?

Speaker 6 Like perfect.

Speaker 2 And my dad was like, yeah, that's fine. I'm like, okay, he's like, be home by 10.

Speaker 6 I'm like, okay.

Speaker 2 So I call Chris. I'm like, I'll pay you 60 bucks to take me to go see my mom right now.

Speaker 6 And he was like, done.

Speaker 2 So he comes to pick us up. Well, my mom kept driving.
I'm like, pull over and find a new hotel. So she does.
It's like an hour and a half north of us. And so I'm like, oh my God.

Speaker 2 So I had to drive all the way up there to Pismo Beach. Get up there and we had the best time.
I mean, like, just the best time. Like, it's a birthday cake for my brother.

Speaker 2 And like, you know, we had such a great time and everything was awesome. And then it's time to go.
And I'm like, I'm going to leave a little bit early just to make sure I'm good. You know, yeah, no.

Speaker 2 We get in the car. We go headed back home.
We're about 45 minutes north of my town, and there's an 11-car pile up on the 101 freeway, and traffic is parked.

Speaker 6 No, fuck.

Speaker 2 I am totally fucked.

Speaker 6 Why is life just constantly putting barriers?

Speaker 2 So I'm like, I don't know what we're gonna do. And then Chris starts freaking out because he's 18.

Speaker 6 Oh, shit.

Speaker 6 Yes. Oh, shit.

Speaker 2 He's like, I'm going to jail. You know, like, oh, no.
He's like, oh, my God, I'm going to jail.

Speaker 2 He's like, what did I get myself into?

Speaker 2 And so he's like, we're literally parked. People are sitting on top of their hoods.
Like, that's how bad this is. They're estimating hours before this gets cleaned up.

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Speaker 6 Have a great day.

Speaker 2 And so Chris is like, I have four by four.

Speaker 6 We're good. Okay.
Can you guys scoot up?

Speaker 2 can y'all can y'all scoot back yeah they scoot up they scoot back he flips a bitch right there goes over the median and four-wheel drive turns around and goes up this thing called rufufio canyon which is like you're only going in a jeep or a dirt bike okay

Speaker 2 we put that sucker in four-wheel drive and we're rock climbing

Speaker 2 it was terrifying with two scared ass teenagers up like these huge freaking hills in order to get on the other side and like oh my god so we finally get up there i have no service on my phone because of where we're located and then all of a sudden i get a little bit of service my phone's ringing it's my dad

Speaker 2 and guess what it's 10 o'clock and i'm still still 30 minutes away from home at best okay and i'm just like hey dad and he's like uh you're supposed to be home i'm like oh my god i'm so sorry i lost track of time right right oh my god

Speaker 2 shit i'm so sorry we're on our way i'm like you better drive fast because i said we're on our way from Santa Barbara.

Speaker 6 We're not even in Santa Barbara.

Speaker 2 Like, oh my God. And so like, my dad calls back 20 minutes later.
We're still not there. I'm still 20 minutes out.
And my dad's like, where are you? I'm thinking I'm being a smart kid at this point.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, oh, sorry, dad. There was an accident on the freeway.

Speaker 6 We're on our way.

Speaker 2 My dad looks up for the exit.

Speaker 6 Oh, no, shit.

Speaker 6 What are you doing? An hour and a half north of, yes.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So he calls me back and he goes, An accident, huh? And I said, yes, pretty bad one. He goes, what are you doing in El Capi Tam?

Speaker 2 He goes, all right, Christina,

Speaker 2 you tell me who you were with and you tell me what you were doing. And I won't throw anybody in jail.
I won't take away your phone. I won't take away your car.

Speaker 6 Fine.

Speaker 2 I was with my birth mom, met her in Pismo for my brother's birthday. I'm sorry.
Get your ass home. Click.

Speaker 6 Fuck. So I go home.

Speaker 2 We roll up the freaking driveway and the three of us are tripping, okay? Tripping. So we pull up in the driveway, get out of the car.
I'm like walking up.

Speaker 2 First thing my dad does is takes my keys from around my neck.

Speaker 2 Then he goes and he pulls the battery out of my car and puts it under his freaking pillow because he was like so worried I was going to run away.

Speaker 2 He yells at my friend Chris and tells him to get off his property and never come back. He tells Jackie that he's going to tell her dad everything that happened.
Her dad was not a nice guy.

Speaker 2 So he was like, no, please don't do that. And then he tells me like I'm permanently grounded, pretty much.
And I'm like, great.

Speaker 2 So I go to my room. That was on that Saturday night.
Monday comes. I go back to school and I was an office aide.
So I was now using the office aid phone to talk to my mom all day, right?

Speaker 2 Because she had a 1-800 number by this point. We got smart.
And so I called her all day long, sitting in office. I'm supposed to be doing other things and I'm talking to her.

Speaker 2 And so I called her Monday when I got to school and no answer. Like, that's weird.

Speaker 6 She's like never not answered my phone call in two years, right?

Speaker 2 Okay, so whatever. And then I called her the next day, no answer.
What the hell is going on? So I call her Wednesday, no answer. So then I call her mom and I'm like, hey, grandma,

Speaker 2 is mom okay? Like, what's going on? Like, she's like, oh, you don't know? I'm like, don't know what?

Speaker 2 Well, your parents are pressing charges against her. They're trying to file a lawsuit for a restraining order.

Speaker 2 She can't answer your phone call. And I was like, you have got to be kidding me.
I hung up with my grandma. I was so mad.
I left my class. I walked straight to my girlfriend's classroom.

Speaker 2 I opened the door and I was like, I need Madison James outside right now. And the teacher looks at me and he looks at her.

Speaker 6 He goes, you heard the woman. Get outside.
You know, like, he knew how to talk later. The kid has spoken.

Speaker 2 So my girlfriend, Madison, walks outside, and I just, I don't even remember what I said. I was just like, I have to hire an attorney.
My parents are trying to sue my mom.

Speaker 2 And she's just looking at me like, okay, like, what's going on? So she's like, I'll be right back. So she goes inside and she talks to the teacher.
And he eventually comes outside.

Speaker 2 He goes, listen, he's like, you do what you got to do. As long as you guys are back before the end of school, I'm mark you both here.

Speaker 6 Oh, thank you.

Speaker 2 So we take off and I didn't have my car because my parents took it away. So we're in her car.
So she's like, where are we going? I was like, we're going to the courthouse.

Speaker 2 Because in my 16-year-old brain, that's where you find an attorney.

Speaker 6 Yeah, right.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 6 So like, I'm all covered in walking into this courthouse. I walk out.
I need a lawyer. Yeah.
That's exactly what I said.

Speaker 2 I'm not kidding. I walk out to the podium and the lady's like, can I help you? I'm like, I need a lawyer.
And she's like, second floor.

Speaker 6 I'm like, okay. Okay, awesome.

Speaker 6 Perfect.

Speaker 6 You're so smart. I move.

Speaker 2 Exactly. So we go in the elevator, go up to second floor that says public defender's office.
And I'm like, okay. So like we walk in.
I'm like, I don't know what that means.

Speaker 6 Whatever. Like we walk in.

Speaker 2 I go to the front. I'm like, hi, I need to hire an attorney.
And she was like, okay, here, fill this out. Hands me this this green piece of paper.
I'm like, Okay, filling it out.

Speaker 2 It's like, when were you arrested? And I'm like, What?

Speaker 6 Oh, God.

Speaker 2 How much money do you make?

Speaker 6 None.

Speaker 6 You're like, wow, I didn't know getting a lawyer or something.

Speaker 2 I'm like, this is interesting. So I walk up to her.
I'm like, um,

Speaker 2 I couldn't really fill any of this out. I didn't, you know, and then she was like, I'm not a criminal.
What's going on? And she's like, I've never been arrested. She's like, why are you here?

Speaker 6 You're like, what? What's going on?

Speaker 6 Well,

Speaker 2 you see, my mom's being sued by my parents. And she's like,

Speaker 6 yeah, say that again. Your mom's being sued by your parents.

Speaker 2 I'm going to go get my boss.

Speaker 2 So she comes back with this guy. And he's like, come back here.
And so it's him and this younger brand new attorney. They sit me in this room and they're just starting to talk to me.

Speaker 2 They're like, so what's going on? And I'm sure that I said, well, my parents are suing my mom.

Speaker 6 And they're just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, back up.

Speaker 2 What do you mean? So I was like, I was adopted. You know, I go through the whole spiel.
This is what happened. I got caught seeking out.
My parents are trying to sue her.

Speaker 2 But I'm willing to throw my parents under the bus with anything that I need to. So, whatever I got to do, and they're like, okay, I'm like,

Speaker 2 we go to Europe a lot and they've got money over there.

Speaker 6 You know, I'm like, anything that I can think of. Okay, they're all making work out.

Speaker 2 Whatever it takes at this point. And the guy like kind of chuckles.
And I just remember looking down and looking back at me. He's like, We're going to help you.
And I'm like, Really?

Speaker 2 He was like, On one condition and one condition only. I was like, okay, what's that? And he said, you don't tell your parents that you know anything about this.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, my parents put me through $50,000 worth of acting lessons as a kid. I got this shit.

Speaker 2 Sneaking around.

Speaker 2 No problem. Okay, so I go home and I act like nothing.
My parents had no clue.

Speaker 6 That you knew that they were.

Speaker 6 No clue.

Speaker 2 We're talking, this was like the second week of October that this happened. Court wasn't until November 17th.
I kept my mouth shut and acted like nothing that whole time.

Speaker 2 So the night before court, I start packing my stuff because I'm 100% convinced I'm going to go live with my mom tomorrow. You know, like that's just about to happen.

Speaker 2 And so I pack all my stuff and I'm like, wait until my parents go to sleep. And I'm like sneaking bags out of my car.
And like, the next morning, there's some stuff that I still wanted. So I put it.

Speaker 2 My mom sees me and she's like, What are you doing? Oh, well, I've lost some weight. So I'm bringing stuff to Courtney.
Her Courtney was my

Speaker 2 you know, and she's like, Oh, okay, whatever. So I get to school and I find my girlfriend, Kristen, because she drove Jaguar.
So she had like a big old trunk.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, hey, can I put my stuff in the back of your car just in case? And she was like, yeah, okay. So I like load all my stuff into her car and then I left for court.
Go to court.

Speaker 2 My attorney meets me there. I park on the sixth floor as high and far away as I don't want them to see me.
Right.

Speaker 6 Right.

Speaker 2 I like run into the courtroom, courthouse, you know, find my attorney. She files it that morning.
We go in. As soon as I walk into this courtroom, I see my birth mom and my stepdad.
I see my parents.

Speaker 6 And they're kind of like at an angle, okay?

Speaker 2 And so I go and I sit down in the back with my attorney.

Speaker 6 Did your byma know you were going to be there? Yes. Oh, she said.
My ass happened to my grandma. Okay, got it.

Speaker 6 She totally did. Okay, got it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so she sees me. My stepdad sees me.
My parents turn around because every time the the door opens, and they were just like, oh, shit.

Speaker 1 Because you and your attorney filed for what? I don't think you mentioned that.

Speaker 2 So. Yeah, what was the plan? Basically, the plan was for me to intervene in the case and stop them from being able to put a restraining on me.

Speaker 6 Okay, got it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I wanted to say so over my own stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So I didn't want that to happen. I wanted to be able to see her and I wanted to be able to talk to her.
And you guys are going to tell me that I can't. Yeah.
Right.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 2 my adoptive mom stands up and leaves the courtroom. I thought she was going to the bathroom, but she's gone for a hot minute.
So I was like, this is weird, you know?

Speaker 2 And so it's like 45 minutes go by and then it's time for us to go up to the front. She comes in like right in the nick of time.

Speaker 2 We walk up in front of the judge and we're standing in front of the judge and the judge is like looking and looking at all of us and she's like, who are you?

Speaker 6 You know, like, what are you doing here?

Speaker 2 I'm like, I'm the minor child in question.

Speaker 2 And she was just like, why are you here? And my attorney starts talking. And she's like, Your Honor, we filed this this morning.
You know, we're trying to intervene in this case, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 And she just like shakes her head and she's like, I got, this is a 15-minute hearing for a restraining war. I don't have time to hear this.

Speaker 2 And she's like, we're going to have to recess this. I'm like, cool.
So we're going to lunch and we're coming back.

Speaker 6 No, no.

Speaker 6 I have no idea.

Speaker 2 And then they start talking December something.

Speaker 6 And I'm like, I'm looking at my attorney. Like, now I got to go back home.

Speaker 2 What? December? We're not like an octa today, like recess, like school recess, like lunch.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 2 What's going on? She's like, hold on, hold on. They decide on December 18th.
And I'm like, like, we're not coming back here until December 18th. And she's like, yeah.

Speaker 2 I was like, where am I going in the meantime? And she was like, honey, you got to go home.

Speaker 6 Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 I am not. I am there over my dead body.
I am not going home. I will literally be on the first flight to an all-girls boarding school in Jamaica with no return.
Like, you guys can't do that to me.

Speaker 2 Like, I cannot go home with these people. There's no way that I can go home with them.

Speaker 6 Especially after all this walking like, oh, oh, my God. Can you imagine going home with them? No, no, no.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. So I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
So I tell her, I'm like, you better figure something out. I start asking the judge, can you you put me in foster care? Like,

Speaker 2 can you, can you put me? There was this place called Noah's Anchorage. It was a group home.
Can I go there? No, honey, you're not in foster care. There's no allegations of abuse.
There's about to be.

Speaker 6 Yeah, right now.

Speaker 6 He's like, oh, my lady.

Speaker 2 You know, and so

Speaker 2 my attorney's just kind of like, uh,

Speaker 2 so what about a friend's house? And I'm like, I got friends. Yeah, absolutely.
So I start listing off friends. My parents are shooting down every single day.

Speaker 6 Oh, they're pissed at this point.

Speaker 2 Yeah, they're not allowing me to go with a friend. That person's parents is not, they're not good people.

Speaker 2 This kid does drugs. They're not likely.
They have every excuse possible.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 2 And so I exhaust my entire list of friends and I'm out of options. And the judge is like, I'm sorry, honey, but unless you guys can come to an agreement, you're going to have to go home.

Speaker 2 And I'm just like, oh my God. Like, I'm thinking of my exit strategy.

Speaker 6 Like, I'm going to run away.

Speaker 2 There is no way that I'm going to go home. Like, there's no way.

Speaker 2 She picks up that little gavel and she's about to like make her order that we're coming back December 18th. And my attorney raises her hand and says, she can live with me.

Speaker 6 Whoa. Whoa.

Speaker 2 I moved in with my attorney that day.

Speaker 6 no way

Speaker 6 your attorney yes

Speaker 6 holy

Speaker 6 yes

Speaker 6 and so whoa

Speaker 2 the judge looks at me and she goes do you have a car and i said yes ma'am i do and my adopted mom giggles and says she did oh wow okay and then i was like i i have a car and she goes no you don't And the judge looks at her and says, what do you mean, no, you don't?

Speaker 2 No, she doesn't.

Speaker 6 And she says, well, I moved it.

Speaker 2 She doesn't know where it is. That's why she got up in the beginning of the court and left.

Speaker 6 She found my car and moved it six blocks up the freaking

Speaker 2 street and took the trolley to the freaking courthouse. So I couldn't find my car.

Speaker 6 Whoa.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So. The judge was so mad.
Yeah, I mean, she was so mad.

Speaker 2 She's like, you're going to go get her car and you're going to bring it to her and you're going to deliver it to her in the front of the courthouse.

Speaker 2 And not only that, you're going to pay for her insurance and her gas.

Speaker 6 Like, that's cool, you know? Well, because your mom kind of showed her true colours a little bit right there.

Speaker 2 That judge was pissed.

Speaker 6 Yeah, I bet.

Speaker 2 That's so rude. It was terrible.
So she ends up having to bring me my car. My attorney's with me.
You know, they give me my car or whatever.

Speaker 2 And I'm living with my attorney, which was 45 minutes away from my school. So I was like kind of far away.
And I just remember this attorney, she was just like such a sweet human being.

Speaker 2 And this is like my moment of reprieve. I'm like in her house, like I don't have to worry about anything.
Her husband was there and he was so sweet.

Speaker 2 I took like two years of French in high school and he was from Quebec.

Speaker 6 So we would like speak French, you know.

Speaker 2 So I loved him and she was so sweet. And they were just like, they did everything to make me feel so welcome.

Speaker 2 And it was about a week, week and a half in, and they come in, and I know something's wrong. And they sit down on my bed and like, we need to talk.
And I'm like, oh no.

Speaker 2 And they're like, your parents are threatening to sue the county because

Speaker 2 I'm an employee of the county and you're a liability. And my boss is telling me that if I don't find another place for you to go, that I'm going to lose my job.

Speaker 2 Oh my God. Okay.

Speaker 6 So then I'm like, I have an idea.

Speaker 2 You see, my dad was really good friends with my girlfriend, Cheryl's dad. And Cheryl's dad didn't have custody of her anymore.
And I knew my parents didn't know that.

Speaker 2 And so I was like, Cheryl, because my dad's going to think he's going to have access to me because I'm going to be at his friend's house.

Speaker 6 Right?

Speaker 2 This is perfect. Tell them Cheryl.

Speaker 6 They agreed. So I moved Cheryl's mom.

Speaker 2 So I get my stuff. I go and move in with my girlfriend Cheryl.
I had no freaking clue. until like 10 years later, but Cheryl's mom's boyfriend who was living there with us was a freaking psychologist.

Speaker 2 I had no idea.

Speaker 6 Wow, interesting.

Speaker 2 And so he would like sit there with me at night and talk to me for hours. Oh, wow.
And I had no idea I was being counseled. No clue.
But that's exactly what was going on. Yeah.

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Speaker 2 So then it comes time for court.

Speaker 2 My birth mom comes down and actually stayed with me at my girlfriend Cheryl's house the night before, and then we go to court the next day.

Speaker 2 And we go in there, and it was the wildest thing. The judge hears my parents' side, the judge hears my birth mom's side, the judge hears my side, and the judge grants my birth mom custody of me.

Speaker 6 Which is literally

Speaker 6 insane, so rare. I don't know what magical universe, intertwining fibers of the universe made that happen, but it was the attorney being able to take you back, you know, I'll do it.
Cheryl, all of it.

Speaker 6 It's like, what the?

Speaker 2 Yeah, it was insane. It was insane.

Speaker 6 But did the judge ever say, like, this is why?

Speaker 2 Not really. I I mean, she was just kind of like, you're 16.
Okay. You know, like, this is kind of stupid that we're even here.
You know, like, if you want to go live with her, go live with her.

Speaker 2 And my parents, I put my parents in, like,

Speaker 2 they knew that I was not backing down.

Speaker 2 And they knew that I was ready to throw whatever kind of accusation I needed to in order to get away from them. They knew that.

Speaker 2 So I think that they knew, like, if they didn't just like, okay, fine, that I was going to make it even worse for them.

Speaker 1 And again, if it would have just been normal from the start,

Speaker 2 it wouldn't have pushed you to go to this drastic measure of doing whatever it is possible. And if they wouldn't have lied to me, right? If they wouldn't have lied to me,

Speaker 2 that betrayal wound wouldn't have been there. It wouldn't have shifted into like, you wouldn't have put, it wouldn't have pushed you to me.

Speaker 2 I would literally put my birth mom on such a freaking pedestal. She was my God.

Speaker 2 I would have done anything for her. Anything.
Okay. Anything.
And I looked at her like a victim. And so I was looking at her, which she was, but I really looked at her like I had to protect her.

Speaker 2 It was my job to protect her. It was my job to protect her feelings.
It was my job to make sure she was okay and and she got her baby back. Like, that was literally, that's how I felt.

Speaker 2 And so, I was willing to die on that hill of like, you're not going to separate me from her. It's not going to happen.
Again, no, exactly.

Speaker 6 Not again.

Speaker 2 So I moved in with my birth mom. Yeah, that's crazy.
I went through no contact with my parents. And it was temporary custody.
We had to come back in July.

Speaker 6 Right, right. Right.

Speaker 2 So it was like a status hearing the following July. And I live with my birth mom.
I end up graduating high school a year early through homeschool. I'm working.
I'm making good money. I'm doing well.

Speaker 6 But I'm not, I'm not happy.

Speaker 1 Right. And I was going to ask, like, was the grass?

Speaker 6 What was it like? Like, what was it?

Speaker 2 So it wasn't that the grass wasn't greener.

Speaker 2 It was that as an adoptee, and a lot of adoptees, I think, feel this way and lots don't. But for the ones that do, I've always felt like I don't fit in perfectly in either place.

Speaker 2 Right. So at my house with my parents, I don't feel like I fit in 100%.

Speaker 2 And in her house, I don't feel like I fit in 100%.

Speaker 2 It was definitely a culture shock because I went from being the oldest of only two kids in the home with like a house cleaner that came once a week.

Speaker 2 That I had never done laundry, I'd never washed a dish. I was so spoiled.

Speaker 6 Very privileged, very incredibly.

Speaker 2 I grew up in a very rich town. Right.
My parents drove very nice cars.

Speaker 2 We lived in a multi-million dollar home with a pool, you know, all the things to living up in Northern California, being the oldest of five siblings, doing all the dishes and all of the laundry and babysitting.

Speaker 2 And like, I'm like, oh,

Speaker 6 like this. Wait, how old did you go?

Speaker 2 What were the ages of your younger siblings um so my sister Erica is five years younger than me and then um Cabe is like two years younger than her and then Roman's three years younger than him and Micah's like a year and a half younger than him so they were younger so who was a young like how was your babysitting which how did that happen um just naturally

Speaker 2 you go to work and she said babysitting well she didn't really go to work so she was a speaker and an author and all that kind of stuff so she would like like we had like a nanny sometimes but like I was picking the kids up from school and like that, you know, it was, it was a, it wasn't like a ton of babysitting.

Speaker 2 It wasn't like she just dumped a bunch of responsibility on me and I wanted to do it.

Speaker 6 I wanted this time with my siblings.

Speaker 2 So I enjoyed it, but it was definitely a different world.

Speaker 2 You know, it was like a totally different world. And so like older.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. Big time culture shock.
And I had gotten no contact with my parents. And my parents tried to like send me a cell phone.
And I was like, I don't want your cell phone.

Speaker 6 I don't want to talk to you.

Speaker 2 You know, and I was really angry with them every time they tried to make contact with me until we go back for court the following July for our status hearing wildly enough my birth mom doesn't go

Speaker 2 I just go and my parents are it was very strange she was in the middle of writing one of her books and she wasn't there so um July I think it was like July 12th or something like that of 2004

Speaker 2 and we go to court and I had graduated I had I had all the things I brought my diploma with me and the judge asked to speak with me in her chambers and so I go into her chambers and I hand her my diploma and she's like Oh my gosh, this is amazing!

Speaker 2 I'm so proud of you. And she was like, Listen,

Speaker 2 I'm thinking I should emancipate you because if I emancipate you, then nobody can fight over you anymore.

Speaker 6 I'm like, Please,

Speaker 2 yes, I can make my own decisions at that point. And so she comes out and she announces that she's emancipating me.

Speaker 2 My parents were not happy about it, which I'm like, I'm like literally nine months from turning 18.

Speaker 2 You know, like a big deal. So they get, they're upset.
Court's over.

Speaker 2 My girlfriend jamie was with me and um she comes and like we we go to leave and we had to drive back up six hours back up to where i lived um with my birth mom and i'm just like i i need to go talk to my parents okay yeah you felt it your soul was pulling you you had to i have to yeah good so she's like are you sure i'm like yeah i'm sure well now because now too you have full control now yeah now there's no now that you have complete freedom for the probably the first time ever in my life i can tell both sides how i you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 6 Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Speaker 2 So she drives me to my parents' house, and I just remember the whole time us both freaking out.

Speaker 6 Like, oh my God, oh, my God, what are we doing?

Speaker 2 Is this even a good idea? You know, like, oh, oh, my gosh. And we drive up the driveway.

Speaker 2 And I tell you, like, the craziest feeling is, like, knocking on a door that you've walked through a million times.

Speaker 6 Like, almost like, you know, I'm not welcome here like I used to be.

Speaker 2 Exactly. Like, everything's changed a little bit.
Yeah. I can't just walk through this door anymore.
You know, I ring the doorbell

Speaker 6 and

Speaker 2 my mom comes to the door and she opens and she just like kind of looks at me. And then my dad comes and I was like, where's dad? And she's like in here.

Speaker 2 And I walk up to my dad and I gave him a huge hug. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I was just like, I am so sorry. I was so sorry, you know? And my dad's boo-hooing.
Oh my gosh. My dad's crying so hard.
And he's just like, I'm so sorry too.

Speaker 2 Cause you'd have never come to this, you know? And so, you know, I sit down and I talk to them and we just kind of catch up a little bit. He's like, so you graduated.

Speaker 2 I felt like shit because my parents were always so big on, you know, education.

Speaker 2 And I took that away from them. They didn't get to watch me walk, you know? I felt like shit for that.

Speaker 2 And we just like had a good time kind of catching up. And then it's time for me to go.
And I'm like, okay, well, I'm like saying goodbye.

Speaker 2 Like, this is so weird, except for like, like, we'll be in contact this time, you know? And so I leave and we drive back up. And I just remember like the whole drive back up.
I was just like, fuck.

Speaker 2 I wish I could split myself in two pieces.

Speaker 6 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I wish that half of me could be there and the other half of me could be there because like I don't feel like I fit in either place, but they both need me.

Speaker 2 I need to be in both places and that sucked so bad. So I get back up there

Speaker 2 up to where my birth mom lived and I'm just like, I'm not gonna last. I know I'm not gonna last up here for very long.
I knew it.

Speaker 6 After having that conversation with them, there's no way.

Speaker 2 There was no way. Like, I had this gravitational pull pulling me back to the only home I'd ever been in my whole life.
You know, and that sucked so bad. I had never moved.

Speaker 2 That was the home that I was like, thank you. That was the home I was brought home from the hospital to, you know, which my little brother stole my bedroom after.
I lived, I moved out.

Speaker 6 So whatever.

Speaker 6 Never let him let that down.

Speaker 6 I never let that down.

Speaker 2 But like everything else was still the same, you know?

Speaker 2 And so I, I, like, I was there for two more months.

Speaker 1 But your story, if you look right here, the feelings and the emotions that you're having, this is what we put on to adoptees.

Speaker 1 Even whether we're doing it subconsciously or we're doing it with the words that we use, you know, as the adults in their lives, like it's unfair.

Speaker 6 Agreed.

Speaker 1 You know what I mean? Like it is not okay.

Speaker 6 For you to feel like you have to

Speaker 1 be split into or feel like you have to heal both of these sides of you,

Speaker 1 both of these people that just love you.

Speaker 6 And the way I feel about it is that you shouldn't ever feel the pressure because those two sets of adults should have handled their own trauma to where and healed to where you would never have felt that way.

Speaker 6 Because I'm assuming the conversation you had with your adoptive parents must have been super healing, intense, and just for you to have to drive up there and have this immense pullback, which is insane to think about because you know, spending so much years hiding in the phone and just, and then all of a sudden, now here I am wanting to go back.

Speaker 6 Right. My whole life, two years fighting to get this way.

Speaker 2 I felt so stupid because I was like, what did I just do all this for if I'm just going gonna go back there? Right? Like, I just fought so hard to leave there, and now I want to go back.

Speaker 2 How do I tell, how do I freaking tell my birth mom that? Like, I just fought so hard. I sued my parents to come live with you, and now I want to go back.

Speaker 2 Like, right, come on, you know, like, I didn't know how to say that, and I didn't want to say that.

Speaker 2 I didn't want to hear, like, a I told you so type of thing, you know, like, I didn't want to hear that. But then there was the perfect opportunity because

Speaker 2 when I had moved up with my birth mom, I'd met a boy and he went into the Marines. And

Speaker 2 he, when he got out of boot camp, he proposed, and I was 17, and I was like, hmm, that's a nice little neutral escape route, right?

Speaker 6 I love you, but I got to go with my husband now. Yes,

Speaker 6 right?

Speaker 2 And guess what? I'm emancipated, so I can sign for myself to get married. Yes.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 2 So on top of that, he was in training in San Diego. Well, my parents' house was two and a half hours from there.
My birth mom was eight and a half hours from there.

Speaker 2 So, oh no, I got to go live with my parents again because I got to be closer to my soon-to-be husband.

Speaker 2 And so, I didn't feel like I was cheating on either parent at that point. I felt like this makes logical sense, right? I'm only going back with them so I can be closer to him, right?

Speaker 6 Right, right, right, right.

Speaker 2 Right? So, I did. I packed up my Jeep with my cat and I drove back down to my parents' house, which was so weird, and walked back in, moved into my new bedroom.

Speaker 2 And, you know, that was that. And then I was visiting my boyfriend, fiancé, whatever he was, down in San Diego, like every weekend.
And then we got married literally like two months later. Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 And that was my way of escaping the whole thing because he was in the military. He had base housing.

Speaker 6 So I was like, how long were you dating this boy for?

Speaker 2 By the time we got married, we started dating on my birthday, which was April 30th. We got married November 12th.
Holy shit. And I was 17 and he was 19.

Speaker 6 Yeah. When you look at the compilation of where you are pushed into these, do you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 Oh, but it gets worse.

Speaker 6 Are you ready?

Speaker 2 Because I didn't put this connection together until a couple months ago.

Speaker 2 So I get married at 17. He goes to Iraq a month and a half later, and I found out I was pregnant a month after we got together, or we got married.

Speaker 2 And he comes back from Iraq 14 days before my daughter's born.

Speaker 2 And he's an alcoholic.

Speaker 6 So you spent nine months by yourself with the pregnancy.

Speaker 2 For the first part of it, yes. And then I end up going back to Santa Barbara and living with my parents for the rest of the pregnancy.

Speaker 6 I didn't want to be alone. Right, right, right.

Speaker 2 So I spent a lot of the time with my parents. I actually went up and visited my birth mom, stay with her for like a couple weeks during it, whatever.

Speaker 2 So I was kind of like just free-floating where I wanted to go, kept my apartment down in Arizona, where the base was, and, you know, whatever. And then he returns home and he's an alcoholic.

Speaker 2 And I was raised that we like, don't do that. There are no tattoos, no piercings, no alcohol, no nothing.
So I'm like, this is bad.

Speaker 6 You know, like, I'm like, oh my gosh, like, we don't do this.

Speaker 2 And I like, I couldn't handle it. Like, if he would like smoke or dip, I was like, you can't do that.
Like, what are you doing getting tattoos? Like, no, yeah, I was like, I was tripping.

Speaker 2 I was so controlling because I, oh, it's only over. No, it's control.
I had very controlling parents.

Speaker 6 But when you think about it, what he was doing, the tattoos and piercings, was so against your identity that you adopted yourself to into this, you know what I mean? So, oh, yeah, yeah, that is crazy.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so I was like, I was tripping, and so you know, what ends up happening is like, he was a rescue because, like, I needed to be rescued by my mom, or so I thought, mommy, please come get me.

Speaker 2 And then she shows up and then she takes me. And then here, this boy comes in as the perfect way for me to escape.
He's another rescue, right? So he rescued me out of that situation.

Speaker 2 Well, then when he becomes an alcoholic,

Speaker 2 here comes this other guy, another Marine, who swoops in to save the day. Oh, he's spending all of your money on alcohol.
Let me buy your daughter some formula. Let me buy your daughter diapers.

Speaker 2 I got you.

Speaker 2 You don't really need to be with him. He is an alcoholic.
You should be with me. So I I was a divorced single mom at 18.
And 17 days after my divorce was final, I married the next guy.

Speaker 6 Wow.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And attachment.

Speaker 6 Literally, I mean, I don't get, like, we're talking about adoption, but this is a very

Speaker 2 discipline.

Speaker 2 Yeah. 100% of it.
And then here's the deal. Listen, so the second husband, right? I've been married four times.
My second husband came in with a rescue line. Right.
What did he say?

Speaker 2 He said, you don't need to be with him. You need to be with me.
You shouldn't let him treat you like that. You need need to be with me.
Let me come in and save you. Let me buy the formula.

Speaker 2 Let me buy the diapers. So I was attracted to this rescue, rescue, rescue.
And then guess what? It happened again.

Speaker 6 And I never thought he's an alcoholic too.

Speaker 2 So he was an alcoholic, yes, but he's a cheater. And so we kept cheating, kept cheating, kept cheating.
And then eventually I was like, if I ever catch you again, it's on like Donkey Kong.

Speaker 2 And guess what? It happened again, and I cheated back, and I got pregnant.

Speaker 6 Oh, shit.

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Speaker 2 So, what's interesting about that, though, I'm very thankful for that. And the reason I'm thankful for that is there's two reasons.
Number one,

Speaker 2 I was faced with lying to my own child because I was told to keep my mouth shut. I was told, don't tell anybody that your husband's not the father.

Speaker 6 Oh.

Speaker 2 I'm an adoptee.

Speaker 6 Are you kidding? That is the.

Speaker 2 I'm an adoptee.

Speaker 6 I have spent my whole life not knowing.

Speaker 2 And then you want me to not tell him?

Speaker 6 Right.

Speaker 2 I can't do that.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 2 But I did. I did for the whole pregnancy because I wasn't 100% sure.
So I wasn't going to say that.

Speaker 6 The second he was born, I looked at him and I was like, oh my God, I know what.

Speaker 6 Oh, no.

Speaker 2 This is not good. And so, you know, it took three weeks.
And when he was three weeks old, my sister and I pulled up with him at the county office to go pay our taxes on my car.

Speaker 2 Three cars over is my son's actual dad's mother.

Speaker 6 Oh,

Speaker 2 and I'm getting my son out of the car and I'm looking at this sweet lady that I've known for years. I look at her and I'm just like, this is her grandson.
And she has no idea.

Speaker 6 Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 I can't do that. I can't do that.
Yeah. You know?

Speaker 2 And so she walks up to me. She's like, how are you? I'm like, I'm great.
She's like, I want to meet the baby. She'd seen pictures of him on Facebook.

Speaker 2 And I was like, yeah, you want to meet your grandson? And she was like, ha, ha, ha, that's so funny. I'm like, no, like, I'm dead serious.
Like, look at him. It's your grandson.

Speaker 2 And she looks down at him and she looks, oh,

Speaker 6 mom knows. You know,

Speaker 2 and she was like, does his dad know and I'm like I told him he doesn't you know didn't want anything to do with it but yeah I told him and she's like well between you and me he's gonna be at my house tonight just so you know and I was like okay

Speaker 2 I showed up over there that night and I brought that baby and I'm like hey that's your son I'm not doing this like I'm not doing I can't do this to my kid I'm sorry I can't you know not only that but he had two older children not older but they were my my um my son's older brother is 14 months older than him and the sister's three years older so you know he had two siblings already.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, what happens if they grow up and go to the same high school? My son dates his sister

Speaker 2 What if the boys are playing football together and they don't know their brothers? Right, right. What if he like

Speaker 2 becomes best friends and he wants to have them over spend the night? You're not like what?

Speaker 6 I can't do that. Right, no, there's no way I can do that.

Speaker 2 No way. So I said, I'm sorry.
Like

Speaker 2 it is what it is. Yeah.
Like, yeah, the sticky situation. Yeah, it sucks.
However, it is what it is. Yeah.
So I was faced with the same exact decision. I was faced with it being open with my son.

Speaker 2 I either had to carry the scarlet letter on my head or my son had to carry the confusion.

Speaker 2 I was like, give it a letter. Yeah, give it to me.
All day long, give it to me. I'll be the bad guy in this.
My son's not going to go through what I went through.

Speaker 2 There's no way.

Speaker 2 So I end up having my son, you know, meet all of that side of the family, whatever. And when my husband found out,

Speaker 2 I told him, I said, listen, like, you love him. His biological dad doesn't really want anything to do with him.
Why don't you just raise him like your own?

Speaker 2 You know, and he was like, I will on one condition, one condition only. I said, what's that? And he said, you don't tell anybody, not even his father.
And I'm like,

Speaker 2 and I like, you know what? I was 23.

Speaker 2 I had only had a high school diploma. I didn't have a job.
I had two other kids. And I'm like, I have to keep a roof over my kids' heads.

Speaker 6 I was like, you sure? Yes. Deal.
Deal.

Speaker 2 I didn't do it. I snuck him around all the time so that he could see his biological family.

Speaker 2 There was no way I was going to keep my son from that, but I'm like, this isn't going to work as he gets older. And then I got busted.
When my son was like 18 months old. Oh, really?

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I got busted sneaking him around to go see his biological dad. And then that blew up into a whole situation.
And

Speaker 2 unfortunately, I got sucked in again. And that was with my son's father.

Speaker 2 And he eventually came around to the point where he was just like, I want to be in his life. I love him.
I love you. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 And my second husband definitely had his issues. And, you know, there was, there was a lot of, a lot of stuff there.
And so my son's father was like, you don't need to be with him.

Speaker 2 You need to be with me. Same thing.

Speaker 2 You can't ever let somebody talk to you the way he talks to you. It's not okay.
And, you know, and I completely fell for it. Yeah.
I completely fell for the rescuer all over again.

Speaker 2 And that one was the worst one.

Speaker 6 Well, then to be honest with you, I will say I think your second husband even pushed you farther because you you made me hide all this. I wouldn't.
And so, you know what I mean?

Speaker 6 And now he's telling me that we don't have to hide anymore. You know what I mean? It's like another, another escape route, another totally.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean? Yeah. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 So I'm like literally, I was so attracted to all these rescues, you know, and I was just like anywhere that I could like escape, escape, escape, escape, rescue, rescue, rescue, rescue, rescue.

Speaker 2 And I went for it. And what was the real thing for me was he had those two other children and their mother, unfortunately, was a drug addict.
She's in and out of jail.

Speaker 2 And so she didn't have anything to do with the kids. And I wanted my son to be with his siblings.

Speaker 6 Yeah. There's that pull.

Speaker 2 There's the biology.

Speaker 2 I want my son to have his siblings. So I get with this guy, and we fight for custody of the kids.
The kids end up moving in with us, and they call me mom till this day.

Speaker 2 Okay. And, you know, it's crazy is my whole story comes completely full circle.
It does.

Speaker 2 Because I had these two kids that were not biologically mine that call me mom that I've raised since they were babies. Right.

Speaker 2 And when I divorced their dad, they were eight and 10, and he took them away and he moved across country, wouldn't let me see or talk to them for four years.

Speaker 2 And I found out that everything was going really, really bad in that house when their mother actually called me after getting out of jail one time. And she goes, I need to get them away from him.

Speaker 2 He's really abusive. It's really bad.
And I called an attorney and I was like, can I help their mom get them or something? You know, because I didn't think I had a chance.

Speaker 6 Right, right.

Speaker 2 I was an ex-stepmom in another state. Okay, like, what chance did I have? Turns out, I called the attorney and goes, she has no chance in hell, but you do.
And I said, weird, what do you mean?

Speaker 2 State of South Carolina has something,

Speaker 2 thanks to Mr. Childs, was actually his name.
I met his wife on TikTok of all things when we started making these videos. It's crazy.

Speaker 2 And Childs versus Childs, there's some case law there of de facto parentage, where if you have a parent-child bond with a child, you have rights to fight for them in the state of South Carolina.

Speaker 6 Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 So I filed an emergency hearing and I was granted custody. Whoa.

Speaker 6 Crazy.

Speaker 2 Crazy, right? What does that remind you of?

Speaker 6 Well, it's your story. It's exactly like

Speaker 6 Jesus.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 2 History just repeating itself.

Speaker 6 Right.

Speaker 2 Right. So I get custody of them.
I move them back in with us in Texas and I had them for two years. And then guess what? They wanted to go back.
And I had to let them go.

Speaker 6 Wow.

Speaker 2 So it's literally my story all over again.

Speaker 6 And when they wanted to go back, like, what was that like for you?

Speaker 2 I just brought back all the same emotions. And I was like, I'm not going to control this.
Right. Because, you know, that saying is, you know, if you, if you love something, let it go.

Speaker 2 If it comes back, it's yours. That's how you know.
And that's always been my thing with my dad. My adopted dad is my best friend in the entire world.
My best friend. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And he, I used to hate that man. I hated him.
He was so controlling. He was a yeller and a screaming, call me names.
I hated him.

Speaker 2 But when I went through that lawsuit with them and I came back that day, my dad knew that the only reason that I came back was because I wanted to be there, not because I had to be there.

Speaker 1 And not because somebody was forcing you to do what you needed to do.

Speaker 2 Yes. And I wish I would have known my dad's history when this whole thing happened because I found out as an adult that my dad was orphaned at the age of 15.

Speaker 2 Both of his parents committed suicide two weeks apart from each other at Christmas time, and my dad's the one that found both of them.

Speaker 2 So, my dad had this crazy control because he was terrified of losing somebody he loved. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So, when those adoption paperwork, when that was signed, and he wasn't obligated to have an open adoption, he was like, mine.

Speaker 2 You're not taking this from me. I love this thing.
You can't have it, you know? And it was him replaying his own trauma that he never got counseling for, he never got help for.

Speaker 2 So, all of those factors played played in.

Speaker 2 And so, recently, doing all this deep dive, because you know, once I got on TikTok and I started talking about adoption and found you guys, really, I really did so many deep dives and I found so many adoptees coming who made so much hate about my story.

Speaker 2 Why would you leave those people?

Speaker 2 You know, like, like, how would you do this? Like, why, like, that's insane.

Speaker 6 Like, how rude, how mean, how mean.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, why would you do that? Like, you left the ones that chose you for the ones that didn't want you, like, all these crazy things, right?

Speaker 2 And I wanted to understand like the logic logic there right because to me i'm like well maybe you're just not adopted so you don't get it but then i had adoptee saying that i had adoptee saying like how could you do that to your parents that loved you and why would you go back with the one that abandoned you she didn't want you she threw you away like trash why would and like the things people say on the internet it's insane so i wanted to really research and so i ended up deep diving on attachment theory and I found out, and this is crazy, it's 100% attachment theory is the reason whether an adoptee wants to or doesn't want to or what that depth of relationship will look like with their biological family.

Speaker 2 It 100% boils down to attachment theory. And so I ended up writing a book on it, like randomly, wrote a book on it.

Speaker 1 I was going to ask you about your book.

Speaker 2 So I have written several books. I've written five total, but this last one I just wrote a couple weeks ago and published.
And it's literally about that.

Speaker 2 And I was so fascinated because so many adoptees have to know. They want to know.
You know, and that was me. And that's that like anxious, preoccupied attachment, right?

Speaker 2 And then there's adoptees who are like, like, oh, you know, like, I don't really care. Like, cool.
I hope she's okay.

Speaker 2 And I'd like to see some pictures maybe with maybe health reasons, you know, whatever. Right.
And so that's all 100% back to their attachment. And I was like, this is so interesting.

Speaker 2 And then I was like, where does attachment come from?

Speaker 2 The adoptive parents. Of course.
Once you are put with those adopted parents and like how that is developed, like whether or not they answered your cries.

Speaker 2 And the problem is, is like a lot of these adopted parents, first of all, they've never been parents before.

Speaker 2 Secondly, they don't know the difference between a, I need a diaper change cry and and I'm a hungry cry. They don't know.
So they're just like gambling. Trying everything.

Speaker 6 Yeah. They're like, what do I do? What do I do?

Speaker 2 And that baby doesn't know that.

Speaker 6 That baby is just saying like, I'm not getting my needs met.

Speaker 2 Right. So danger, danger.
I'm not getting my needs met.

Speaker 6 And the attachment forms right there. If that is missed, if that misfires anywhere.

Speaker 2 Now, and then you know what's even scarier is if you've got a parent that has trauma like my dad had.

Speaker 6 Right, right.

Speaker 2 Or if you have a parent that's on the spectrum because they miss those emotional cues a lot of the time.

Speaker 2 So there's so many things that play into this kid growing up and either being curious or not being curious or whatever.

Speaker 2 And so I like to say it's the adopted parents' fault if that child really wants a relationship, right?

Speaker 2 But it's really what it boils down to is it's 100% on how they attached and how they bonded with that child. It is.
Yeah, it's super cool.

Speaker 2 They have 100% control over how that relationship is going to look. And that doesn't mean like you get to control it.

Speaker 6 You can't control how much control that they like, whatever.

Speaker 2 No, it's like they literally have control over whether or not that child has a healthy relationship with their biological family or not.

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Speaker 6 Which I think a lot of people kind of they skip over that part where it's like I really believe that it is the adoptive parents' responsibility and duty to facilitate this connection if it's wanted.

Speaker 6 It should have nothing to do with

Speaker 1 the child wants it or not too.

Speaker 6 Yeah, and I also feel like you know if the child's willing to talk about it, right? That's right.

Speaker 6 Which I think, obviously, your story, there's a lot of misfires. Like your dad could have been, hey,

Speaker 6 he could have never said that to you in the car at eight years old. And it might have changed the whole thing.
But it comes down to like attachment is such a primal

Speaker 6 bio. It is, it's a, it's a primal thing.
It's very, um, you can't really replicate it. No, you can't.

Speaker 6 And I think it's important for people to understand that people will say, oh, well, my adoptive parents raised me, and I didn't have anything, and nothing's wrong, everything's fine.

Speaker 2 No, you have a secure attachment.

Speaker 6 Well, yeah, that's what it is. That's what it is.
And so it's like, you know, as far as adoptive parents go, it's like, you are in control of how this unfolds when it comes to attachment.

Speaker 6 And I think a lot of the times, I think adoptive parents need to hear it, that

Speaker 6 it is valid for you to struggle with that attachment with your newborn baby that you adopted. It doesn't mean you're a shitty person.

Speaker 6 It doesn't mean anything other than this situation of adoption is biologically. tribally, human species-wise, unnatural.
Right, it is. So for an adoptive parent to be in this situation, forced really,

Speaker 6 and to have this baby that's not biologically theirs and not having this organic, you know, maternal, paternal thing,

Speaker 6 it affects the attachment. And

Speaker 6 I think adoptive parents,

Speaker 6 I would imagine that a lot of them have all these fears, but none of them are ever talked about because it'll make them look, it'll look horrible.

Speaker 2 People don't know how to talk about adoption.

Speaker 6 Yes, that's why I'm talking about it. That's why we're talking about

Speaker 6 adoptive parents have their own issues and their own struggles.

Speaker 2 Well, and if they bring in some trauma, like my dad had that trauma, if you bring in that trauma as an adoptive parent, you like, you don't even realize that that's going to absolutely impact how you bond with that child.

Speaker 2 And then let's throw this in there, too. I am an adoptee who used surrogacy.
I have two children who are born. Two of my girlfriends carried two of my kids.

Speaker 6 Wow.

Speaker 6 Your friends? Yes. Oh, wow.
Yes.

Speaker 2 So, you know, I've got four children that I carried and birthed. And then I've got two children that I didn't adopt, but that I have custody of that call me mom, that are mine.

Speaker 2 And then I have two that were carried by surrogates.

Speaker 2 And when you're talking about it's a weird thing when you have this child that wasn't carried by you and now you're getting handed this baby, even though those kids are biologically mine. Right.

Speaker 2 I felt like the dad.

Speaker 6 I did.

Speaker 6 Now I understand that experience. Okay.
You know, like, this is my baby. That saying of dads only become dad.
That's body. Right.
Right.

Speaker 6 They say that that saying of dads only become dads when they see the baby. Right.
And that's how I found it.

Speaker 2 Can you imagine? Like, and like, and it kind of gave me like the adoptive parents' perspective because here I am in another state. This other girl is pregnant with my baby.

Speaker 2 And like, I'm waiting on the phone call. If I'm in labor, oh my gosh, what if I miss it? Am I not going to be there? Who's going to cut the cord? Who's going to be in the room?

Speaker 2 There's so much that goes. And like, am I ready? Do I have everything? And it's like, you can't really attach whether

Speaker 2 they're pregnant and they're far. It's out of sight, out of mind.

Speaker 6 Right, right, right, right, right.

Speaker 2 And so then, like, you show up, and it's like, time to gallon up. Here we're having a baby.

Speaker 2 And you're like, my, my daughter, Navy, whenever she was born, like, that was a natural birth, but she was 33 weeks. She came early.

Speaker 2 She had preeclampsia. So, you know, like, that was a whole traumatic thing in itself.
And then it's like, oh, here's your little preemie baby who spent some time in the NICU.

Speaker 2 And then, like, that whole thing all over again. And then with my son, he was a scheduled C-section.
So, and they were both in different states, but it was like, still, like, I get it.

Speaker 2 Right? Like, I get it.

Speaker 1 That's awesome that you have all the different perspectives for sure.

Speaker 2 I mean, that's why when when people are like well you just don't understand I'm like oh try

Speaker 6 and I think a lot of the comments that I'll say even when you do videos covering our stuff and people just attack you like like you know you should be bashing us or they feel like you should be more harsh or critical of us and you're just like well I think it's interesting because you do have so many angles of viewpoint from this whole situation.

Speaker 2 I do and then like when you know that I had never watched y'all's show I'm not a TV person like never and so whenever I started making videos about my adoption story I I had so many people tag you guys because they were like oh my gosh this sounds so much like Kate and Ty's story you know and I then I really similar it is so similar I started deep diving on y'all stuff and I was just like holy shit oh my gosh this is so much like my story you know like obviously there's differences but like right I

Speaker 2 still feel so much like of I remember all of these feelings all these emotions and I'm still learning them today you know like I won't call my mom mom in front of my mom I can tell you that you know like

Speaker 2 still to this day that's not gonna happen Like, there's certain things that are like lasting ramifications of this awkward, weird relationship that is like never gonna be normal.

Speaker 2 And you just have to kind of accept that, you know?

Speaker 1 So, now, fast forward all these years, you still have a relationship with your birth mom and with your adoptive parents.

Speaker 2 So, I'm not talking to my birth mom right now, okay. But, my adoptive parents, yes, okay.
Um, and the relationship with my birth mom has been on and off for the entire 24 years.

Speaker 2 It always, like, every couple of years, there seems to be something, and it's one, it's such a weird relationship because it's kind of like, did you want me in your your life or did you not?

Speaker 2 You know, you made all this effort to show up at my high school and turn my whole life upside down, but then like we have issues. I don't get it, you know?

Speaker 2 I've never one time had an argument with my adopted dad since I moved back in with them. Never one time.
When I say that man is my best friend, I mean that. I talk to my dad every single day.

Speaker 2 I can't put into words how thankful I am that adoption gave me my dad.

Speaker 1 That's beautiful.

Speaker 2 That like, I will say this: adoption is messy. Adoption sucks in a lot of ways, but I cannot imagine my life without that man.

Speaker 2 I really can't. And my kids are so close to my dad.

Speaker 1 And it probably took all of those riffs and everything

Speaker 1 the ins and the outs for him to even be like, oh, wow, I need to, you know, do things differently or whatever, you know?

Speaker 2 Like, that's awesome. And what it boiled down to was attachment once again, right? Because now we have an earned, secure attachment.

Speaker 6 That was natural, but that we built off of the. Yeah, it wasn't forced.

Speaker 2 It wasn't, yeah. And it was the trust.
It was, it was, listen, like, I hurt you, you hurt me. Let's start over and, like, let's have mutual understanding, right?

Speaker 2 And let's, like, know that you're here because you want to be, not because you have to be. And that was what it was for my dad that, like, changed it because he was like, I'm no longer in control.

Speaker 2 I don't have to try to control you. And you're here because you want to be here.
And that probably meant a lot.

Speaker 6 You know, it's interesting. It's almost like once you emancipate yourself and once you kind of like took that control from him, he was finally able to like,

Speaker 6 what freedom in a way? I know he at that moment didn't feel like it, but like, what freedom to like, I don't have to fight and scrounge so hard to keep this close to me.

Speaker 1 It was probably a breath of fresh air, but also hard at the same time.

Speaker 6 Like, bitter stuff. Yeah, you know what I mean?

Speaker 6 I think about like just him fighting his whole life to control something and then finally like, well, I can't control it now. Right.
I don't need that to happen.

Speaker 6 I can relax my shoulders and breathe and embrace it coming to me naturally instead of me holding it so maybe that meant more to him. Like you know, like you doing.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I think it did. And you know, like the part that I never have really talked about, I've made one video on it, but I think it's incredibly important.

Speaker 2 Is like when this whole thing was going on, I never once considered that I had a little brother in the house that only knew me as his sister his whole life. He had no idea what was going on.

Speaker 2 And then one day I was gone.

Speaker 2 And so he got abandoned in this entire situation. That was never my intention.
That was never anything that I would have done.

Speaker 2 If I would have looked at it like that, I probably would have done things differently.

Speaker 2 But like, that sucked for him. Yeah.
This whole situation sucked for everybody involved. Like, it really sucked for everybody involved.

Speaker 1 And it's crazy that people have to be able to do that. And it didn't have to happen.

Speaker 6 It didn't have to be that way. That's the whole point: it was unnecessary.

Speaker 2 It was completely unnecessary.

Speaker 1 And it all happened because of fear and unresolved trauma and things like that.

Speaker 6 And secrets. Yeah.
And secrets. That's our fault.
It's crazy. All secrets.

Speaker 2 You know, I had somebody on a plane yesterday on my way here be like, you have eight kids. And I'm like, sure do.
And they're like,

Speaker 2 what's your best word of advice? I said, don't lie to your kids. Don't lie to your kids.
And that will always be it. Don't lie to your kids.

Speaker 1 Be honest with them. And I think that's what people need to take away from this.

Speaker 6 And especially like adopting people that are, yeah, adoptive. Any of the parents, anybody.

Speaker 1 Anybody, anybody. So for people that don't know who you are, where can people find you?

Speaker 2 I'm on TikTok. I'm also on Facebook.
I do a little bit of Instagram.

Speaker 2 Mainly TikTok is kind of my game right now.

Speaker 2 But yeah.

Speaker 1 What's your username on TikTok?

Speaker 2 Christina Richie. Okay.

Speaker 1 And then also you did just finish a book that's out now.

Speaker 2 All my books are on Amazon. If you just search my name, Christina Richie, on Amazon, you'll see them.
I have two that are very adoption-specific. One is the newest one is called Unraveling Adoption.

Speaker 2 The one before that is On the Dotted Line. Cool fact about that book, it's actually my biological little sister on the cover, The Pregnant Woman.

Speaker 6 So that's cool.

Speaker 2 And then I have Happy Looks Good on You, Babe. I wrote that like eight years ago, so it's kind of outdated, but it's still cool and it walks you into the story of me and my husband.
I'm married now.

Speaker 2 I've been with my husband for eight years. My husband is the most amazing man on the face of the planet.
Took me on as a single mom with six kids. Wow.

Speaker 2 You know, so, and then we had our two via surrogacy together.

Speaker 2 And then I've got,

Speaker 2 let's see, Happy Looks Good on You, Unraveling Adoption, On the Dotted Line. Oh,

Speaker 2 and then back in 2011, I lost 95 pounds in eight months. So I actually

Speaker 2 wrote a book on weight loss and like the mind shift of like food addiction and all of that. So I have a book called The Former Fat Girl.

Speaker 6 Wow. That is awesome.

Speaker 1 I just want to say thank you so much for being

Speaker 1 joining us and being super vulnerable. And I love that I went into it not knowing too deep about your story.
I knew bits and pieces of it. But yeah, wow, I can really relate a lot to your story.

Speaker 1 And just thank you.

Speaker 6 Yeah, thank you for just being and thank you for just being vulnerable on TikTok as well. Social media, as you know, is insane.
You probably read some of our comments. People are cruel and horrible.

Speaker 6 And it takes a special vigor and just, yeah, to do that. So we appreciate it.

Speaker 2 You know what?

Speaker 2 Honestly, I love you guys, and I have a hard time with people that want to say mean things because I have never seen anything but like kindness and just like wonderful things from you guys.

Speaker 2 And people are going to have their opinions. People are going to say things.
The one thing that I always hold true to is you don't know every detail of everybody's story.

Speaker 2 And unless you have as many forms of like, like I have a lot of perspective, we just said that. Unless you're able to look at this from so many different angles, just shut up.

Speaker 6 You're right. Just shut up everybody.
And if you're not involved in adoption constellation,

Speaker 2 that's the job.

Speaker 6 Shut up, too. Shut down, shut up, listen.

Speaker 2 Listen, just listen. That's it.

Speaker 1 So, you guys, thanks so much again for listening to this week's episode. Make sure you like, comment, and review our show.

Speaker 1 Check out Christina's pages on TikTok and Instagram, and some of her books too. And thank you, and we will be talking to you guys again next week.

Speaker 6 This October, Fear is Free on Pluto TV with horror movie collections from paranormal activity, The Ring. You'll die in seven days.
Scream.

Speaker 6 And from dusk till dawn. This is my kind of place.
And don't miss the man-made nightmares in Mary Shelley's Frankenstein or the world-ending chaos in 28 days later. Something in the blood.

Speaker 6 All the scares, all for free. Pluto TV.
Stream now, pay never.

Speaker 10 Hi, I'm Adam Rapon, and this is Intrusive Thoughts, the podcast where I finally say the stuff out loud that's been living rent-free in my head for years.

Speaker 10 From dumb decisions to awkward moments, I probably should have kept to myself, nothing's off limits.

Speaker 10 Yes, I'm talking about the time I lost my phone mid-flight and still haven't truly emotionally recovered from that. There might be too many sound effects.
I've been told to chill. Will I?

Speaker 10 Unclear. But if you've ever laid awake at night cringing at something you said five years ago, congratulations, you found your people.

Speaker 10 Intrusive Thoughts with Adam Rippon is available now wherever you get your podcasts.