#459 - Josie Long , Verge Christ and Mammary Glands In The Runner Beans

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Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Ellis James and John Robbins Show. We are Dave Lus again.

I think he's got the picture. I think he's got the message that his services are no longer required.
Yeah.

That efficiency savings have to be made. And sometimes, you know, you've got to make up setting redundancies.
You do. However, in a sense, Dave is here chemically in Ellis's veins.

What do I mean by that? I don't mean that Ellis has popped off to the toilet for a pick-me-up.

What I mean is that Ellis has just worked out that he can go to Oasis tomorrow. I've just been offered a ticket by a valued friend.

So currently through Ellis's veins there are mini mastermans going Oasis vibes in the area and they're all circling around Ellis's system. I got offered.

And Dave's DJing in Ellis's house. Just before I left the house, right?

And I kept shouting Oasis vibes in the area. And my kids didn't like Gib because they didn't know what it meant.
No. And Izzy didn't like Gib because she doesn't like Oasis.
No. But I don't care.

Because I do like Oasis. I do.
This feels big. And you like their vibes being in your area.
Yeah, but what am I going to wear for Oasis?

Because I need Liam to look across at where I'll be. Yeah.
And to think, I want him to be my mate.

You want to come back stage? We'll play one to wall in a second. Stop everything, right?

Who's that guy? About 250 rolls back in the VIP area. Oasis vibes in the VIP area.
What's that Kagul you got on there, mate?

I like that. Don't come back and talk to me about colts.

but will you this is a question so i left the studio last week and the tube was full of oasis fans it was like traveling with a thousand daves yeah yeah yeah yeah and which is great and they're all drinking on the train which is illegal yes i didn't point that out one of them was having a pint of wine okay um and it looked like she was not going to remember I mean she was slumping at 3 p.m.

Yeah.

But what do you wear if it's hot? Ideally, you want a little bit of rain to get some really good kagools out there, don't you? Yeah, but it's nice to weather tomorrow. So then you've just got to.

You've just got to dress like it's the best summer of your life. Okay.
Like it's the summer of love, 67 or 88. So what are you going to wear?

I've got a nice new polo shirt. Right.
So I'm going to wear that, I think.

And I think I'm going to couple that with jeans. Huh.
And I think some added espeziales. Speziales.
I've never actually known how to say it. Okay, okay.

Not in the mood for new balance. Really? And I think it's too warm for desert boots.
Okay.

So yeah, and also I don't want people to stand on my desert boots because they're nice and clean. So oasis vibes can be adapted depending on the season.
Yes, absolutely.

Because if I'd gone in September, I definitely would have been kagooled up. But then doesn't it just look like a massive Duke of Edinburgh Award ceremony?

Yeah, that's the odd thing. People who do Duke of Edinburgh Award

also look like they're signed to Creation Records. Right.

It's a very strange mix, that. Okay.

How are you? I'm excited, John. You're actually going to talk about you.

Well, that's fine, Marilyn. I'm happy not to talk about me as well.
I want you to disappear, John. I want you to be replaced by Bonehead.

I want me to disappear, and I want me to be replaced by Bonehead

because

yesterday had to draw on a lot of my emotional coping mechanisms one of which there's no escaping was two prawn vindaloos

double curry it was a double curry sad day it was a double prawn vindaloo sad day oh my god sorry i've only just

I've only just honed in on the word vindaloo yes yes yes so there was we've got to share a studio for the next three hours it's what are the ramifications the ramifications I mean it's been a you know, it's been an obstacle course of a morning, but that's.

Torrid.

I wouldn't go as far as to say torrid.

You know, interesting. There's been interest.
Okay. Yeah.

It's like a Sherlock Holmes case that initially

presents itself as being quite straightforward, but in the debrief with Watson, Sherlock Holmes says this case has presented points of interest

unique to the annals of crime. Right.

But there was confusion in the Mergle Palace, which is not a euphemism. That's the name of the restaurant.
Okay.

Because I'd gone, I was in bed at 2pm and I thought, this is not good. Got to get out of bed.
Had a nap. Went for a long walk, like a two-hour walk.
Oh, that's nice.

And then walked straight to the curry house. Straight to your fate.
And ordered two prawn vindaloos. Okay, so who are you with? Me.
Okay, you were with you. I was with me.
Okay.

So who's the second vindaloo for? Well, this is the question that the waiter asked.

He said, do you not want to wait for your friend?

I said, I am my friend. I've had to become my own friend.
And I happen to both want a prawn vindaloo

because

she's got her hands. She's got her head in her hands.

So I said, yeah, I would like two prawn vindaloos. He asked again if...
I don't think this has ever happened in the history of...

I'm sure people have ordered two curries before, but not the same curry twice. And he said, do you want them to arrive at the same time? I wanted to start arranging me.

I'll have my prawn vindaloo to start, followed by prawn vindaloo, please. But no, I had them both at the same time.
How many rices?

Rice, garlic, naan, and

the chili garlic prawn on the side. Gee whiz.

But

there were a family of four next to me who ordered less

because they were two kids. Do you know what?

You could be the third wheel of Bosch culture. I'm aware of Bosch culture.
Well, like cookers and, you know, fancy dishwashers.

No, have you not seen these people on social media where they'll order like a massive Chinese? Oh, because that big guy. Maybe I should start putting this sort of stuff on Instagram.

Oh,

believe you me. So it's.
If you had ordered on your own two prawn vindaloos and the chili garlic naan and the

pila rice and the other thing, and had said Bosch, you would be standing on the barrel of half a million likes, John.

Well, what if it's just me and a confused waiter having a conversation, and then he walks away, and eventually I say Bosch. I think 180.
I've been brought to you by Bosch.

I think quarter of a million likes, Definitely. It's absolutely incredible.
Yeah, also,

I've had some decorating done in my house, and it's always a pretty delicate time when you have a tradesperson in your home. Well, having anyone in your house who's not a friend or a family member.

Yes, well, especially when they're repainting the bathroom where your only toilet is and you're on a two-prawn Vindaloo coping mechanism.

Oh, my kiddie ants. But that was not a problem.

But I needed to get some new blinds

because once you painted a room, everything in that room looks old and crap. Because you don't notice how sort of like

what's the word? Distressed. Distressed.
Because what happens is paint, it all ages at the same

time, at the same speed. So actually, the room looked better before it had been decorated because everything was as distressed as each.
It looked thematic. Yeah.

Yeah.

So.

Now I basically got this glistening room and a blind which now looks like an oily rag

Looks like I've draped a mechanics rag over my window. Yeah, yeah, because it's covered in like soot and dust and the odd squashed moth.
Yes.

And you can hide a squashed moth with 10-year-old paint job. Yes.
But you can't on a brand spanking one-day old paint job.

No, but once you've changed your blind and everything else, you've then got a good 10 years. Well, exactly.
So you have to get the blind at the same time. So anyway, I went online to try and get some.

Oh my god, you'd be in your 50s. Oh, crikey.

And that's fine. And that is fine.
You know, if, God willing.

Aging's a privilege. Well, exactly.
I want to get to my 50s. Absolutely.

So anyway. My mortgage depends on you getting to your 50s.
I went on to

entered in all of the measurements and click buy. And then it takes you to a page where a man comes round.

Like it's the 80s. But

I've never heard of this service before. Well, I'm not going to name

Spork. No.

It's like, you know,

it's mid-range blind company. It's not like kind of, you know.
The Queen's blinds. It's not like Jeremy and Olive.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Blinds.
Yeah. And they're like £6,000 somehow.

Our blinds are a way of life. Yeah.
Cream and Hawksmith.

Those companies.

So yeah, this guy comes around to my house, like in the 80s, and he's got big bags full of different samples and stuff. It felt good.
What? To show you blinds? Yes.

In a world of algorithms and notifications, and, you know,

you liked this blind, so you'll like these blinds. For the rest of your life.
You know, your daily blind playlists.

Yeah, you bought a toilet seat once, so now we're going to try and sell you toilet seats for the rest of your life.

It was nice to have a chap come around and actually measure them up, so I felt like a housewife in the past. I'm absolutely amazed at that.
Yeah, it's great.

Anyway, they'll be there in four to six weeks. Oh, God.

I should have just bought some for a bloody website. Anyway,

it's good stuff. But he was very lovely, and they're going to be then they're bespoke, of course.
Oh, yeah. Of course, yes.
Well, I think we should do some correspondence.

Dear cherished champions of content, quite like that.

As someone who has spent more time than is probably healthy, lurking in road verges with a clipboard and high-biz vest, I couldn't resist popping you an email after today's episode.

Firstly, I write with caution, as this is a surprisingly divisive topic that once led me to receiving an email threatening to have my head mowed off.

Although I suspect it's also a rich theme of Mad Dad's John, your urge to take a walk on the wild road side verge is entirely justified.

These thin strips of land are often the unsung, underappreciated and misjudged heroes of wildflower habitats. Yes, it's you have been found, Ellis, to be out of touch with the nation.
I have, yeah.

We've had lots of emails on this, basically saying that.

To the doctors, the nay says, the disbelievers, we say where else can you find 260,000 hectares of available land across the UK capable of supporting over 700 species of the UK's total plant diversity?

And let's not forget the cost savings from reduced mowing. Incredible.
But not all flowers are created equal. You see, it's not just a case of let it grow and hope for the best.

Without a bit of thoughtful management, and crucially without growing UK species, we risk creating a tantalising botanical buffet of ecological confusion.

Wildflowers from other regions of the world might look the part, but for our local pollinators, they're about as desirable as a lukewarm Scandinavian licorice ice lolly offered to Tim Davey after being chased by a horse for six hours.

Together we need to build back Britain's botanicals before bees go bye-bye. Love that turn of freeze.
I love that turn of race. And Ellis, while I know you're playing devil's verge advocate, fear not.

With the right management and a few committed, sensitive, MOA-wielding heroes, Verges can be both tidy and terrific for nature.

You need only to look at your homeland and see wildflow-rich Verges in Denbyshire, Monmouthshire, and the wider Gwent region from the wild roadside, Andrew.

You're always forgetting the wider Gwent region. I am.
And the people of Gwent accuse me of that.

And the bees of Gwent

accuse you of that. Thank you for that, Andrew.
Yes, I am the face of Britain's Verges.

I am the virgin

my

birth yeah I'm Christian Jesus Christ

I'm Jesus Christ and I will be appearing in a series of stark

stark and controversial adverts to promote Britain's Virges do you know what where I as Christ stand over them and all the bees uh form the beard of Christ and um just just what

and the toga and just wasps in my palms

represent stick martyrs you are talented yeah and it was always going to end like this it was always going to end like this claiming on the radio that you're the son of god only for the sake of britain's verges oh of course yeah yeah yeah yeah um yes thank you for especially all your emails slagging ellis off yeah loads loads of those uh in fact i'll just i'll read a bit now uh never have i felt more aligned with john than his say no to mo campaign to rewell Britain's Verges.

Shabby, what, you thick? My sentiments exactly, John. Yeah.
That was from Andy in Monsona Lockland. Thank you, Andy.
But every so often, the Ellis Nimbiists, the naysayers,

the concrete clowns win because Mike in Bexhill got in touch to say,

I live in an area controlled by Rother Council. And a couple of years back, the Verges were allowed to go, well, wild.
They didn't spray them or cut them, allegedly as a money-saving exercise.

In spring, they started to grow and some early flowers appeared. By summer, they looked spectacular.
I loved them.

By late summer, height was impressive, but it became evident that they were blocking sight lines for drivers pulling out of side roads.

Complaints were filed by the anti-fallow brigade,

and they were promptly moan.

What a shame, Ellis, that you and the anti-fallow brigade are so concerned about sight lines for cars coming out of T junctions. It feels like I'm on the wrong side of history there.

It does, and you are, and you will be judged. Speaking of judging you, Roland gets in touch to say, I heard Ellis suggest he should resit his maths GCSE.
Oh my god. I'm a maths tutor.

I'm a fan of the show. I'm Welsh.
And because it's the summer, I've got a lot of time on my hands. I'm willing to guide Ellis through his maths GCSE.

We could do some Zoom sessions and give him a sample paper to sit under exam conditions and get it invigilated. Regards, Roland, how do you feel about that? I've had a terrible week.

Mentally. Yeah.
How many Vindaloos did you have? Well, I had a Chinese on Monday night. Lovely.
Nothing bosh.

Nothing has rocked my confidence like last week's made-up game for a very, very long time to the extent that at one point I googled a circus skills workshop because I thought I have to learn new things because that will keep my brain elastic.

You just learn old things that you've forgotten.

Yeah, but I'm just absolutely convinced I've entered a period of cognitive decline and it's terminal. Uh yeah, you go through this about once every eight months.

Yeah, because I because I get absolutely hammered in a made-up game and I think serious questions have got to be asked. But you've just forgotten um

you've just forgotten Pythagoras's theorem. Yeah.
And I don't think that I don't think that's a suggestion of cognitive decline. I'm just worried that you've

oh, because I'm comparing myself to you. Because we're roughly the same age and you haven't forgotten it.
Yeah, but I've got a lot more time. You were time for for 22 minutes.

Yeah, but I've got a lot more time to dwell on things like Pythagoras' theorem. Think of all of the stuff you know about childcare that I do not know.
Yeah. What do you do if a kid bangs his head?

Yeah, you rub it. Okay, and how do you know? Unless it's really bad, and then you take them to rainy.
And how do you know the difference between a cold and a fever? Vibe. Okay, so I don't know.
Oh,

a fever, you take the temperature.

How loudly should you shout at kids when they misbehave?

Do you use a loud hailer? No, again, that's all. Do you cup your hands to your mouth? Again, that's all vibe-based.
Okay.

You do learn an awful lot when they're very little. You do learn an awful lot.
What if they don't eat what you've cooked?

Again, that's...

That's vibe-based, and it's based on the individual child, I think. Okay.
And then you do get a feeling for that. What if you book them a bad Minton court and they don't like badminton?

The classic example,

and I saw George Lewis, who we did criticize. No, no, Dave criticized on the show last week, and he did a very funny retort on Instagram.
He did.

Um, I saw, I was watching one of his videos where you take kids to the zoo, for instance,

and they're faced with some of the greatest predators on earth, and they're like, Yeah, and then they see a really, really basic playground and they lose their minds, and they're like,

What? Well, this was a complete waste of time and money. Yeah, yep, yep.
So again, it's all very vibe-orientated. So all of that new information has pushed out Pythagoras' theorem,

which I'm guessing is a good job, useful for any parent. But I think the difference is, I think when

I did my maths GCSE in 1997, and then as soon as I'd finished, because I knew I wasn't going to do it for A-level, I thought, great, that gives me an excuse to forget all of the maths.

But that's Sherlock Holmes's methodology. And Einstein.
Yeah, I just discard that. He doesn't know that the Earth goes around the sun, and Watson can't believe it.
And he says, why should?

Well, now that you've told me, I'm going to forget it because it's useless to me. But how do you remember it?

Because it's just there,

because I have less other stuff to push it out. A few people suggesting I'm autistic because I can remember Pythagoras' theorem from school, which feels a stretch.

I saw a friend of the show, Gareth Gwynne, yesterday. Oh, yeah.
And he did a maths degree.

And I said, out of curiosity, and he said, are you going to ask me how to measure the diagonal of a football goal? And I said, yeah. He said, yeah, I listened last week.
I heard you meltdown.

I said, could you do that? And then he explained it to me. And I thought, well, you studied it to degree level.
Not Pythagoras's theorem, he didn't.

No, but he will have, you know, maths was his thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Maths and comedy. Whereas maths, you did English.
That's what I don't get. Well, so what year was the Great Reform Act?

There were two. Well, there you go.
You got that in your head.

Anyway, this is from

Leah. Leah says, Hi, my sizzling sausages.
I hope you're all well and happy.

John was talking the other day about chopping wood and carrying water as a Buddhist practice, and speaking of how this can lead us to enlightenment.

Yeah.

Firstly, please can you recommend the book again as I'm too lazy to go back and check? No.

No, I'm not.

Half of my DMs are a repository for people who can't be bothered to listen back to a podcast they've just heard. What was that thing you said in this week's podcast? Sorry, mate.
My DMs.

I'm not autistic.

My DMs are, oh, I'm in Bilth Wells. Can you think of anything good for me to do?

That's quite nice.

I'm not from Bilth Wells.

You don't work for the Tourist Board in an official capacity? No, no, no, no. You could wait wait for the Royal Agric, you know, the Royal Welsh Agricultural Show.

Yeah, just sit there and wait on one of its beautiful wildflower verges. Lear goes on, secondly, I run an outdoor fitness business to which I added an outdoor sauna and hot tub area in 2023.

My sauna and hot tub are wood-fired, so I have to spend most of my time since June 2023 chopping wood and carrying water. What does this mean, John? Did I reach enlightenment without realising?

My job is pretty awesome. I'm outdoors all the time enjoying the countryside and providing space for others to do the same.
Have I peaked? I'm only 38. Where do you suggest I go from here?

Best wishes, Leah.

Well, where do you go from here, Leah?

The thing is, the phrase is, before enlightenment, chop would carry water. After enlightenment, chop would carry water.
So you don't go anywhere from here.

You continue doing the same things, but with,

you know, a deeper understanding. It does.

Being outside a lot does seem nice. Like on Thursday, I recorded podcasts all day

and then from nine in the morning until half past four. So I hadn't left the house until half past four.
I felt quite weird at the end of it.

You've got to get out there.

So in the end, I went for a bike ride and I felt so much better. But in the city as well, or did you get to some green space? I cycled to the park and I did a few laps of the park.
Lovely.

But I think what the phrase means, Leah, is that enlightenment is not a destination different from the one we currently inhabit.

Enlightenment is an increased feeling of presence in the moment we already inhabit.

And it's also, I think, about humility, about going just because I've had some kind of spiritual awakening doesn't mean I suddenly become all up myself. I still help with my community.

I still do the washing up. You know, I don't suddenly become all Zen and sit in a...
on a special seat while other people do hard work.

I continue to work hard because working hard is enlightenment in a way.

Do you say that? Yeah.

Well, the Buddha said that. Oh, right.
Okay. I mean, I agree with him,

but I'm not claiming it as my own. He says it, and I'll do a thumbs up.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. On the WhatsApp group.

Yeah, I do a thumbs-up emoji or a praying hands emoji, go thanks, the Buddha. Yeah, and he says, oh, fair play.
Yeah, and I'm like, can you send me a letter?

The Son of God has done a thumbs up emoji on my point time.

Yeah, the Verge Christ.

The Verge Christ has thumbs up the Buddha's message. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Right.

Are we going to talk? We're going to have a break.

I've really got to say this. There were actually three major reform acts in the 19th century.
I was thinking of 1832 and 1867, 68, and I'd forgotten about 1884. I've entered cognitive decline.

But 1832 is the main one. It's the big one, yeah, yeah.
1832 is the big one.

In defense of cash, Ellis.

Okay.

This is

from.

It's a long email. It's got a table in it.
This is from Harry. Harry says, hello, my little cream pies.

Not sure that works, Harry. I'm not sure about that one.

I mean, there is a space between the two words, but

don't Google it, Harry. You'll have to enter your credit card details now.

Or use a VPN. Or use a VPN.
um or just read yeah read a book read a book about um

victorian era yeah yeah victorian morality actually victorian morality and

her majesty victoria's long grief yep um

harry at the pleasant birth at a pleasant birthday dinner a gentleman and i had a healthy and then heated debate about whether a chap ought to carry cash it became heated enough to ruin the mood of the dinner of course i was forced to go home and make a list of reasons to carry cash in order to show it to said chap at a later date, which I'm guessing, Harry, you refer to as the money shot.

Weirdly,

this did not help heal the rift between us, and we are not in regular contact. Oh.
Imagine falling out over cash.

Anyway, here is a thorough but not comprehensive list of reasons to carry cash in there for a wallet. Some you will support, others probably cannot be condoned by the BBC.
It's a nice list, though.

Feel free not to read any out that compromise your integrity.

I like this from Harry because what Harry's done is got himself into an argumentative pickle, but then purged himself and cleansed himself by having the argument on paper and then sending it into a podcast.

It's a bit like a l'esprit de scalier where you come up with the perfect retort

afterwards. Well, remember what Eckhart Toll said:

The need to be right is a form of violence. Oh,

and I'm going to prison for GBH.

Anyway, should we go through some of the lists, things on Harry's list? Helping your local shop, because it's cheaper for them to take cash, especially for shops less than five pounds.

I agree with that. But a lot of shops now don't take cash, Harry.
Just to point that out. Coin laundrette.

Um,

yeah. Cabs.

Cabs should be taking cards, but I know I accept that plenty, even if they do, they often say that they don't, and then you push them and they do.

Come on, mate.

Yeah.

I'm looking at you. Cab drivers in Cardiff.

Lockers in a swimming pool. Yeah, fair enough.
A trolley at a supermarket. When is that going to change? Well, that first tap trolley? Yeah.
Can't be. It has to be on the way.

Paying mates quickly.

NSA needs to be quicker on these. It's quickfire.
Yeah, sure.

Top quizzes. Yes.
Occasional car parks in Yorkshire.

I have experienced the Yorkshire car parks. Yeah, Welsh car parks.
When you get caught out, it's so annoying. Yes.
Your drug dealer. Yeah, absolutely.
Heads or tails? Yeah. What's going to happen?

Well, you can't do long card number or black strip, can you? No, no, no, no, no. Security number or long card number?

Buying merch post-gig when they've put the card readers away.

In my experience, they then don't take cash because they actually don't want it madly, insanely.

10p and 2p machines in arcades. If you've got young kids, absolutely.

You're at an international sports tournament and they've only done a deal with Visa, so you can use Visa, not MasterCard. This was the case at the Paris Olympics.
Yes. And very, very, very annoying.

That is outrageous. That's so thick.
Yeah, yeah. That's crazy.

Appeasing muggers. Yeah.
Magic tricks.

Yes.

Do you know what? Daniel Kitterson did a magic trick with some coins to my kids the other day. And I thought, and I actually thought, in the days of a cashless society, and we're hurting towards that,

he's going to be doing, he's going to have to do it with a debit card. Well, and seeing his debit cards are 14 and a half centimeters wide, it's much harder to conceal them up your sleeve.

Let's not discuss my cognitive. Camping.

I hate camping.

So I don't care. In Dublin, I recently got 10% off in a coffee shop because I used cash.
I then tipped the staff the money I'd saved. Oh, I like that.
I like that.

For when society completely breaks down in an apocalypse and only cold, hard cash retains me. No, because I'm worried about superinflation.
So a dollar in

a US dollar in 1918 was with eight German marks. And by November 1923,

a dollar was worth 4.2 trillion German marks. Yeah, but a dollar was still worth a dollar.

Okay, so whose society is collapsing? Am I living in the US or in Germany? You've got to hope that you're living in the US. Okay, all right then.
But I think I'm not sure I'm backing cash

in a societal collapse. Okay, well, thank you very much, Harry, for your email, and we will do our best to keep cash current.

So that the man, the government, shady online people and the BBC can't track my every movement. True.
I heard that.

But if you don't think Tim Davey is looking into how to get microchips into a two-pound coin, then you're very much mistaken. That man has a vision.
Yeah.

And it's a vision to track the spending of every person in the UK. Yes.
So that he can then, you know, better monetize those BBC services which are sold abroad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And all education will come through BBC Sounds.

It's the only way you can learn anything. Yes.
And Melvin Bragg's the headmaster.

And Adrian Charles is doing the PE.

And, you know, Eleanor Aldroyd is doing the hymns. Oh

this actually sounds great. Yeah it sounds quite nice.
Right let's talk to Josie Long.

Hello it's Ray Winstone. I'm here to tell you about my podcast on BBC Radio 4 history's toughest heroes.
I got stories about the pioneers, the rebels, the outcasts who define tough.

And that was the first time that anybody ever ran a car up that fast with no tires on. It almost feels like your eyeballs are going to come out of your head.
Tough enough for you.

Subscribe to history's toughest heroes wherever you get your podcast.

Yes, folks, it's August, and throughout the month of August, we will be being joined by our peers, our superiors, a couple of inferiors coming live from the Edinburgh Festival.

And it's a friend of the show. It's also someone who's featured on the show in recent months, but never in person.
And coming down the line from Edinburgh is the UK's second best boggle player.

It's Josie Long. Oh, it's smarts.
It's smarts to hear it. Okay, number one, I'm in the beautiful city of Glasgow.
Hadaisa, I'm in Edinburgh.

Number two, yes, technically, you have been winning at boggle more than me. That's, we can't dispute that.
We can't dispute that because facts are numbers.

But

they stay in the record books, don't they?

Yeah, and it's very much like First Pastor Post in Safaris. It doesn't tell the full story.
You're a minority party.

Oh, I'm a very popular party that is struggling because of the way the system works.

Yeah, you got 40% of the vote in the recent boggle by election, but unfortunately, somehow I managed to get 100% of the vote, which would suggest vote irregularities, but the UN have said that actually it was a fair election.

Yes. Here's the thing.
My manager said to me, would you like to go on Ellis and John's show to talk about Edinburgh and your show?

I'd love to. I'd absolutely love to.
And what's happened here has been what I knew would happen, which is an ambush and an insult on my abilities as a boggle player.

And I'm here to defend myself because, firstly, I don't know what you've been saying about me on your show, but I've been receiving text messages from friends

and I don't appreciate the chat.

I do feel obliged to defend Julie. Two young

young kids. She's got a lot of salt in her plate.
Thank you. Thank you.
Ellis, two young children. Let's not forget had a major concussion at the start of

the limit exactly.

I'll tell you something else. Every day I take ADHD medicines, which slow down my thoughts.

Is that a fair arena? Not willing to forego family and medication in order to win a boggle tournament. That's fine.
These are the decisions that you make.

It's actually the opposite of performance in hunting drugs. Yeah.

I take inhibitors so that John gets to about himself. But making Lance Armstrong have a fry it before riding in the Tour de France.
I've got to say, Josie is at times the crowd's favourite

because often the most complicated or the longest word will go to Josie.

This is what I'm going to say is,

okay, I'm just going to have to say credit where credit's due. John is an incredible boggle player.
I have to say, he's relentless. When he goes on a streak, it's actually intimidating,

it's impressive, it's worrying. Do you know what though, Josie? As someone who loses made-up games on the reg to John,

I feel A, obliged to defend you because I can empathize with how you feel. And B, it does feel like you're losing to the evil empire.

Yeah, and do you know what John does, which I really don't appreciate?

He'll often taunt me.

Oh, that's not fair. He taunts me.

He will wait until a very opportune moment and then just send me like

13-2.

That's the running score. The running score at the moment, I think, is 15-4.
Is that right, John? It is around the 15-4 mark. Yes.
And this is the market.

The problem I have is there has to be a record of a score, but when's a good time to say, I've just won another game, and I'm just putting it here so the record, unless I start to keep records like on paper at home.

It just doesn't feel like the funnest way of doing it, is it? And sometimes I send a message to John where I'll be like, oh, John, I'm feeling really worried and low about things at the moment.

And he'll be like, I also have to say, I've just won.

You can't hold it back, you know? No, we do have great emotional chats about our feelings, but

the record must state amongst attended conversations.

May I say on the record that I appreciate that John has mentioned that I get the longer words because I do.

And if there is a board,

I, in my life, in my vibe, I'm a certain kind of niche. And if I'm in my lane, ah,

stunning. Chef's kiss.
And if I'm forced into, shall we say, the tawdry world of the mainstream.

and um and john however that's where he wants to live you know

the tawdry world of the mainstream uh

how would you plead i

i plead 15 4

um but just you know i'm glad you didn't bring up 140 that was because can i just tell the story of this for me so we started out and we were fairly even

and then i I actually don't know when John just started powering away. And I would love to know, A, what was happening in your personal life, B, what's happening in my, but something happened.

Well, literally zero for him.

Something happened, and John just took flight and it was relentless. And I think also the problem is when you're losing that badly, you know, when it's like 60-40, you're like, I can get this back.

But then it becomes 70-40 and you think, can I get this back? And then when it's 90-40, you're just like, end it. Yeah.

Then mentality becomes mentality becomes an issue then. Well, I think the thing I have is that the more my private life is on the decline,

the more word games matter because they're my sort of happy place. Yes.
So I really do. I'm very good in a word game scenario at putting my foot on your throat.
Oh, God.

But it's done with love. Can I also say there are a number of games, and you will back this up, John, that you only win by kind of 10, 15 points.
Oh, yeah, we have some very, very close ding-dongs.

And yeah, and those are the best. You're like Roger Fedra.

You've only won 54% of the points. 48%, whatever it is in your career.

I mean, you used to do boggle games at the Edinburgh Festival at the Cafe Royale. Do you guys want to see something? Yeah.

I set up a thing. In, I think, 2006 or 2005, I set up the World

Bogle Championships. In 2005, I set them up because me and my friend Helen Zulzmann, incredible podcaster, audio maker, used to play boggle all the time at her flat.

And we just thought no one could could beat us and I made all these medals because back then I had so much time on my hands.

It's pretty smartphones, you know, people had to do things.

I made these medals and I made them because I was thinking I'm going to take him

the first place. No.

Oh, who won? Just some random dude. Oh, it's always random dudes.

Yeah. Josie, you are, though you are in Glasgow now in your in your home, you are, are you commuting to Edinburgh every day for your show?

I'm commuting until Sunday, and then for a week I'm going to be staying in Edinburgh with Dave Dodoherty, Lis Kum and Amy Annette. It's going to be

away. Josie, now the blurb says

you're back with a new show about Discovery, Wonder, Extinction, and how to walk through a landscape of monstrous disaster.

What's the blurb behind the blurb?

The blurb behind the blurb is, you know, you have to write that stuff several months in advance, right? Yeah.

the show is about uh largely about prehistoric extinct charismatic megafauna so like not dinosaurs um like mammals giant mammals especially ones that lived alongside human beings that are the same as you and i evolutionarily sort of 10 to 40 000 years ago and it's about me and my daughter finding out about them and exploring them but i guess it's also about getting older and changing.

It's about like evolutions of things, iterations of animals, iterations of us, iterations of my kids, iterations of the world, and about like

trying to

deal with those changes and get a bit of fuck a bit of joie de vive.

A bit of fuj joie de vivre.

Now I can see why you're so good at boggle, Jossie. Tell me about a mega mammal.

Oh, I'd love to. What do you want to know? Who do you want? Do you want to know about one specific one? Do you want to know about what they're about?

I forget and then I'm reminded once a year that human beings were once one species of human beings amongst dozens of species. I think about that all the time.
Doesn't it make you feel physically sick?

I can't imagine it. I feel so stupid.
I'm like, I don't understand. Yeah.
I don't understand.

And

there was a program on iPlayer, I think. I think it might even be called Human about those, that time when there were lots of different species of humans around.

But obviously they didn't have the budget to give you detailed facial.

So everyone's all very sort of out of focus walking around fires.

But there's a very good episode of In Our Time about Neanderthals where Melvin Bragg loses his temper with one of the academics. Why?

Because he's too glib.

He tries to sort of say the difference was that.

you know, Neanderthals were very good hunters, but the Homo sapiens were all sat round sort of with their iPods talking about philosophy.

And Melvin Bragg goes, no, no, that will not do because he he doesn't want it to be accessible in which I can get because it's

but it's like don't try and dumb this down yeah yeah yeah because stuff is complicated you've got to be consistent with the tone of the short yeah so um tell us about the the different species of humans and the mega mammals well the different species of humans I only barely touch on because there just isn't time but I did have some bits about Neanderthals because I um

they have been kind of slightly maligned as just like

yeah and actually they had loads of very complicated artistic things they they had a lot more culture than we give them credit for and there was a bit so there's a bit about um

they well I had to cut it so I'll do it for now but basically they found

a full skull of a Neanderthal woman that was been so crushed it had gone to 2D but they basically found the burial site which is very significant because it shows that people like the loved one another and cared for each other and put each other kind of in special places to revisit and stuff.

And they reconstructed this head, so they like brought it from 2D to 3D. They added a full D on the head, right? And they made it into what it was.
And the woman was about 45 years old.

And they kept referring to her as grandma. Oh, dear.
Oh, they kept saying, well, you can see that grandma was at the end of her life because she's worn down her teeth. They were so mean to her.

And I was just like, maybe she was just stressed having some children. You know, maybe she was wearing down her teeth because she couldn't get Botox in her jaw.
Like, it's not

a problem. I am starting to realize that I am essentially now at the sort of average life expectancy of humans for most of human history because your eyes start to go.
Yeah.

Like your eyes just go at 40. And it's because eyes haven't yet evolved to live 80 years

or 100 years. You know, your bum starts to fall off.
Yeah.

Because it's like your bum's not designed to be active over 43. It's built in obsolescence.
It's built in obsolescence. Yeah, it's sad, isn't it? It is sad.

But it does give me gratitude that I live in a time where I might get a bonus 40 years. Yes, very good point, actually.
Oh, my God.

It's very harsh that 40 years of your life is when you're essentially expired. On the decline.
But it's enough time if you have a kid. You know, I'm thinking about people who lived 10,000 years ago.

You have a kid at 18, 19, 20, 21. Yeah, maybe you have three or four kids.
You live to see them to the point at which they can have kids, and then your bum falls off and you rightly die. Yeah, yeah.

But now we get a whole other age of fallen bum. Exactly.
Bad eyesight, which makes a fallen bum doubly difficult to manage. The buggery.

If you've got bad eyesight, everyone just looks kind of peachy. Yeah, that's true.
That's true. So maybe they counteract the wrinkles, they smooth out the wrinkles.

I also think part of my show is about rekindling things and bringing things back to life.

And I feel like in the last couple of years, especially since my children are no longer infants, that I'm like re-embodying myself, re-finding myself, like jumping into my life.

And part of my show is sort of saying, like, it's not too late, it's never too late for your life to take a new iteration and for it to be.

I've got to say, Julie, I saw your 2019 show at edinburgh where about your children being infants about your children being born tender the show was called and it was sensational it was the best hour when i saw at edinburgh that year i'm actually going to be releasing that on youtube quite soon oh nice yes please well folks go and check out josie's show don't please oh i'm not even going to say don't heckle about boggle because on the off chance that that will ever once happen

I think it has happened to me in the past. That's the kind of heckless that I invite.
But I would love you to come to my show.

It's called Now is the time of monsters and it's at seven o'clock every night and I really am proud of it I really am I think it's got a lot in it well every show of Josie's which I've seen which is every show Josie's done at the festival I've been there has been fun

yeah did you come in 2006 you didn't come in

oh I wasn't at the festival in 2006 Ah there's a loophole there's a loophole there's a loophole um her show's seven o'clock at the Queen Dome of the Pleasants Dome and she's there until 24th of August after Edinburgh Josie is taking now is the time of monsters on a tour around the UK.

I'd really like to say that, you know, I've been trying to be competitive here, but I do want to say that John is a very good poggle player.

He's a privilege to claim, he's very good. Love you, Jose.
Thank you so much. Thank you, Josie.
So nice to see you both. Thank you for having me.
You're welcome. Bye-bye.

Right, okay. I think it's time we do some mud dance.

My dad, when he brought his first non-stick frying pan, kept the instructions and stuck them on the wall next to it. Actual real wooden clogs

and set about eating what must have been north of 24 egg canopes. He then proceeded to empty 40 litres or so of pinch onto the timber and strike a match.
Dance a mad. Dance a mad dance.

Okay, this is a cracker deer team El Joe. Oh, I like that.

It's like J-Lo. I think that could work.

Do I like that? El Joe. No.
Okay. Because it's not Joan.

Alright, fair enough. Fair enough.
As an Avido. J-Lo works is Jennifer Lopez.
Yeah. I think it sounds quite snappy.

And sometimes it's to do with how something sounds, as opposed to whether it actually works or not. Well, no, because Branjelina wouldn't work if her name was

Angelina.

Eunice.

As an avid listener, I wanted to give back for the countless moments of mirth, and so I present to you a possible first for your show, a Shamewell and a Dadza Mad Story in one.

Love it! A Dadwell. Yeah, for young boys of my generation, introduction to the naked form was largely confined to discoveries of top shelf magazines tossed in hedges.
Correct.

We all, we remember that time. Railway sidings.
Yeah.

That was... How do they end up there?

There was a news agent at uni that used to leave the unsold ones in a big stack outside the front door once a month. Hmm.
Okay.

However, to earn pocket money in the summer holidays, I emptied park bins for the council.

I soon discovered that they were also repositories for nifty publications, and I must confess that I am assed quite a collection. Ooh, sounds like he's talking about Warhammer.

That was until we invited a French exchange student

to stay with us. My bedroom had a bunk bed, and the Guggenheim of Glans was underneath it.

Needing to rid myself of this shameful horde, I decided to put them in a box and smuggle them out of the house one evening before dinner, only to be rumbled by my father, who was digging in the allotment.

On seeing what was inside the box, after a brief stammered explanation of my plans, he was mercifully understanding. Oh, good old dad.

Fair play to him, and said with a wink that he would take care of my box of shame. Lovely.

Relieved, I went back inside and sat down with the rest of the family for tea, only to nearly choke in a potato waffle by the sound of an enormous explosion.

Rushing outside, we saw our father, clothes smoking, Sans' eyebrows, walking nonchalantly towards the house, asking what was for supper. You see, to burn my box of shame, he'd used an accelerant.

Something he'd found in the shed. A tub of old paint stripper that had coagulated.

Unable to pour out the jellied contents, he'd simply tossed the whole thing into the weekly flaming box to see how flammable it was. The jelly turned out to be very flammable.
Pure napalm, in fact.

Dad hadn't burnt my box of shame.

He'd blown it to smitheries.

And charred pornographic confetti was now scattered over the entire allotment. That evening, my father and I scoured the plots by torchlight to extract all the discernibly naughty bits we could find.

But we didn't find them all, and complaints of strips of lady bits found on neighbours' plots tormented me for the rest of the month. One neighbour, Mrs.

Moran, even came over with a mammary gland she'd found in her runner-bean.

Like a sort of adult Wallace and Grommet

narrative.

The shame, the madness of it still haunts me to this day. Yours hourly, Anon.

Wowie. Oh, a mammary gland in the runner-beans.

But I love the understanding dad. I love the nod and the wink.
I love the I'll deal with this. I love the eccentricity.

You know, there is something very British about the image of pornography exploding over an allotment. It's also the idea of dealing with pornography by blowing it to smoothies.

Such a funny idea.

Yes, keep your mad dads coming to ellisandjohn at bbc.co.uk. Well, we're going to be chatting with our favourite dad.
It's Adrian Chiles.

Adrian, we'll have to wait and see if Holly McGill gets through to the final of the 200 backstroke, but we've also got Ben Proud coming up.

He is an Olympic silver medalist in the 53, so that great promise for that race in about eight minutes time.

Thank you very much. Join you again shortly.
Ellis and John coming up next. While we're on swimming, I'd like to ask you all: anybody aware of budgie smugglers there, the three of you?

No, I wear a tight streamlined trunk,

which keeps the rudder in the hull, if you know what I mean. Yeah.

Full wetsuit to me. I mean, a full wetsuit, isn't it? Ellis isn't much of a swimmer, Adrian.
No,

I think it's rubbish and for idiots.

But not the BBC5 live coverage. He thinks that is essential listening.
However, in terms of recreational swimming, he thinks that's rubbish and for idiots.

I can't imagine he's very strong. He's a bit of a show pony.
I can think he can do a good six, seven strokes of perfect freestyle before he runs out of breath. What producer Dave?

I reckon Producer Dave's a runner.

I don't know how good he is at swimming. I intensely dislike swimming.
I think it's a waste of time.

I'm one of the great swimmers, and I think it's a superb, low-impact way to stay fit and increase muscle mass, especially in older age. I just think it's a fuff.
You can't do it.

You just don't like it because you're embarrassed because you can't do it and you're in your 40s. Yeah, you've got me there.
You've skewered me with your truth.

If you had to compete in a, let's just call it just a 50-metre race,

what stroke would you look least ludicrous in, Alice?

I don't think he's got the luxury of choice, Adrian.

Backstroke. He'd look very good when the lifeguard came to his aid.

Yeah.

I would destroy the field using a hybrid stroke of my own design. Oh, yeah.
With

shark attack. Yeah, breaststroke arms and butterfly legs.
I do sometimes go

breaststroke arms and front crawl legs yeah I do that sometimes yeah well you'll make next to no progress at all then will you well I'm I've got a swimmer's body I'm I'm long and thin and gangly and hairless broad shouldered and handsome and kindliner

Kindness is underlooked in Olympic swimmers. Yeah,

that's what they said about it.

It should be marked. Are you a swimmer, Adrian? Because you've got your compression sock on your leg.
It must be good for your circulation. It's very good.

Not particularly quick, but I'm a stayer. I've

swim a couple of miles.

I can just see you doing breaststroke, but keeping your head above the water all the time, like an old lady.

Mom Mom has just texted me listening to this saying, Koye Tovrag budgie smaggles, which means what the hell are budgie smugglers?

I'll explain. It doesn't really translate into Croatia, but

I'll do my best. Okay, Ellis and John, coming up next.
Thank you very sweetly. Let's go for the news and sport.

We will be with you on Tuesday again.

Dave, we will still be Dave Less. Yeah.

What on earth does he think he's playing as?

I think Dave's lost interest. I think Dave has lost interest.
Yeah. I think he's actually...
he's bit by bit moving to the Algarve. It seems to me like he's on a kind of victory lap.

Do you think one day we'll all live on the Algarve together? Like we're on the run? Well yeah. But the crime is a podcast.

But also, because of Montechnology, you could live in the Alps?

He could live in the Algarve.

We could live wherever we wanted, couldn't we? We would just have to do it on Zoom.

Can I live in my house? Yeah, bring it up, and I'll live in mine.

Okay, see you next week. Bye-bye.

Hello, it's Ray Winstone. I'm here to tell you about my podcast on BBC Radio 4, History's toughest heroes.
I got stories about the pioneers, the rebels, the outcasts who define tough.

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Tough enough for you.

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