#487 - Ghoul (General), Ian the Liar and Having 10 Kids & Turning To Sludge

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Speaker 2 Hello and welcome to Ellison John. Thank you very much for downloading.
I'm feeling good. Dave's looking resplendent.
John's rubbing his eyes like he's a very sleepy boy. Yes.
Oh

Speaker 2 yeah.

Speaker 2 You're okay, aren't you? Yeah, I'm okay.

Speaker 2 I uh took my son to his first Swansea way on Saturday. Oh, wow! Charlton.

Speaker 2 My god, our fans love to vape.

Speaker 2 Are you allowed to vape in the ground? It certainly happens in away ends, yeah. I don't think you meant to.
I don't think you meant to, but it's it's happening, and

Speaker 2 we learnt an awful lot of new words.

Speaker 2 I'd forgotten just how many of our songs have certain swear words in them. Yeah.
But he seemed to be completely oblivious to that.

Speaker 2 Well, he was oblivious when you swore in your house with the big mouse. Yes, he was.

Speaker 2 But he didn't seem to...

Speaker 2 He didn't seem to be bothered by the swearing. He didn't seem to notice it.

Speaker 2 I would say, I don't know if you've taken, have you taken your kids to the football? Lila, about a year and a half ago. I would say if you're six, football is 40 minutes too long.
Yes.

Speaker 2 Because during the second half, we were attacking our end, where all the Swansea fans were about 2,300 of us. Great away, great away following for the Swans.

Speaker 2 So we had loads of chances, loads of corners, there was a lot of excitement. After about half an hour, I could see him tuck in the sleeve of my friend Andy.
Andy turned around and said, yeah.

Speaker 2 And he went, Andy, what do you know about natural disasters? And I thought, okay,

Speaker 2 you're no longer watching the game. Oh, I could have come and talked to him about natural disasters while you will watch the football.
What do you know about natural disaster? And Andy was like,

Speaker 2 Andy said, I'm aware of them. He went, he went, hurricanes and tornadoes.

Speaker 2 There's so many volcanoes. I think volcano can be a natural disaster.
I was like, look, we've got a corner. He was like, yeah.

Speaker 2 And I thought, all right, then, maybe you're slightly too young. I would have been like, did you know that every extra point on the Richter scale is to the power 10?

Speaker 2 Is it? I would have said that to him. How would you explain that to a six-year-old? Well, I would say

Speaker 2 five on the Richter scale times that by ten, that's six on the Richter scale. Well, that is that's a good ten.
Times that by ten, that's seven on the Richter scale. That's a good fact, actually.

Speaker 2 And then I would have had to broach the subject of man-made disasters such as nuclear war.

Speaker 2 Yes, and I think he'd have loved it, actually.

Speaker 2 But yeah, and since we were last recording, only two more rats just the two nice no uh to tell a lie there was a there was a rat today only three more rats oh that's nice yeah yeah i found a dead one in the cupboard under the stairs i rescued one today by amazingly trapping it in one of izzy's shoes and she felt good about it and she loved yeah yeah i took i took the shoe off her and i said i need this for 60 seconds and then there was one that i trapped in some more tupperware and things are going well for me actually and this ai cat flap cannot arrive soon is Izzy's

Speaker 2 fear of mice and rats getting better as a result of being immersed in them?

Speaker 2 No.

Speaker 2 It's interesting, actually. I had a meal last night and we were talking about spiders.
Like, can you, by being immersed in spiders, do you then, do your opinions on spiders change?

Speaker 2 I don't think it really works like that. I don't know.
I think it does work like that. Oh, yeah? Well, that's how immersion therapy works.
Okay. Is it immersion or aversion therapy? I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 They do do it at London Zoo. You start with a small spider and then a medium spider and then a tarantula and then a spider the size of a human.
Yeah. A spider the side of a bus.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Then a mega globo spider

Speaker 2 Canada. Yeah, and then you're not so bothered about the way else.
Because a lot of people, when they go on, I'm a celeb, for instance, they'll start off petrified of a certain thing.

Speaker 2 They'll stupidly tell the producers that that's the thing that they're petrified of. And lo and behold, that's one of the challenges that they end up with.

Speaker 2 So I think I would say that I was really scared of chips or something like that

Speaker 2 I'd say aircom and uncomfortable beds and down duvets

Speaker 2 I'm really scared of having all of the food I like when I want it yeah so what does Izzy do if you're not in the house and there's a mouse slash rat I'll tell you what because I was last year it happened and I was doing a gig in Wrexham

Speaker 2 and I just got to the hotel

Speaker 2 and I hadn't been on my phone I was like I'm just going to go to bed now And Izzy rung me,

Speaker 2 and she said, They've brought a mouse in. And I said, Right, okay.
And she said, But it's under the shelf where all the kids' toys are. And the cats are just looking at the shelf.

Speaker 2 And I was like, Okay, well, best of luck and see you tomorrow because I'm 220 miles away. And she said, No, I want you to stay on speakerphone as I try to deal with it.

Speaker 2 And I was that call lasted 50 minutes. 50.
Yeah, so I was just in the hotel room, lying on my bed

Speaker 2 listening to her going, oh,

Speaker 2 it's running along the skirting boards. What are you doing? What can you do? Well, I'm trying to offer advice as best as I can.
You can do it.

Speaker 2 Go for it, mate.

Speaker 2 Nice one.

Speaker 2 And did it get caught? Eventually, she sort of funnelled it out of the front door, I think. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But yeah, yeah,

Speaker 2 the other day I said, why did I have to be on the call for that one?

Speaker 2 Because she, she, or yesterday's mouse,

Speaker 2 she said, no, I can deal with this one. I don't know why.
I think I was about to have a shave or something. And then I just had so much screaming, I said, just let me do it.
Because I don't, I might,

Speaker 2 I probably swear

Speaker 2 a bit too much, but I remain broadly calm. Although I really need to sort out my impulse reaction swearing, because it was Halloween on Friday.
And Halloween is very sweet until about

Speaker 2 quarter to seven. Yes, it's when you go from trickle-treated to boobs.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You notice it on the train.
Do you? Yeah, because I was in London on

Speaker 2 Halloween evening, and until about quarter past seven, it's kids' parents, those little plastic pumpkins. Yeah, then suddenly boobs.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because... And there really is nowhere to look.

Speaker 2 There were loads of kids.

Speaker 2 There were loads of kids coming around. I reckon I answered the door to Trickle Treatas every five minutes for about an hour.
Wow. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 But they were all children under the age of seven, and they were very sweet, and they were all dressed up, and they were very shy, and it was a really nice thing.

Speaker 2 And I got through an awful lot of mowams. Nice.
Okay, I'd mowammed. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 2 it stopped for about half an hour. I thought, oh, that's that.

Speaker 2 And then the door went at about 7 p.m. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And I opened the door and there was a girl of about 15 and she said trick or tree. And then her mate was hidden in the recess of the porch and he jumped out and went boo, which I wasn't expecting.

Speaker 2 And I said, F me, man!

Speaker 2 Gee whiz!

Speaker 2 And he went, sorry, trick or tree. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Do you want some Moams? I've got about six left.

Speaker 2 And he'd, and he sort of, I don't think he'd expected such a forceful reaction. And I would be very interesting to know.
I'd be very interested to know if he'd continued doing that.

Speaker 2 I think that's a dangerous tactic from our boyhood. Oh, yeah, well, if you've been elderly, exactly,

Speaker 2 anxious. But it is the time of night where you move from Mowams to disposable vapes.
Yeah. To balloons.
Yeah. Because we used to do.
From Maryland cookies to lost Mary vapes.

Speaker 2 I can keep doing these if you want to, because I know lots of vapes. Yes, please.
And cookies and sweets.

Speaker 2 We used to go carol singing, me and my two mates, Adam and Andy. How old were you?

Speaker 2 About 26. No, about 50, 14, 15.
Fine money for drugs. Yeah.
You weren't used to go carol singing, didn't you? Yeah, only once, yeah. Did it a couple of times.
And one of our routines,

Speaker 2 we had routines. One of them was

Speaker 2 dashing. What's dashing through the snow is that? Jingle bells.
That is jingle bells. Yeah, yeah.
So dashing. So one person would stand at the front door and go dashing through there.

Speaker 2 And then someone would pop out from one side, dressed as a sancho, and go dashing through there. And then one person would be like behind the driver.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Then someone at the back would go dashing through there at the back.

Speaker 2 It was lovely until one person went, Jesus, dude, you can't do that.

Speaker 2 Absolutely laid into us because she said the second one that popped out then was very surprising and scary. And if that was an elderly person, kind of basically read as the Riot Act.

Speaker 2 What were you expecting? Money. Yeah, we got a load of it.
I suppose more people carried cash in those days. Oh, we made a killing and we did give a proportion of it to charity.
Oh, that was

Speaker 2 so sweet. Oh, good eggs.

Speaker 2 My son on her wedding day wore a kilt and a sporron because his dad was Scottish and he just walked around saying, Have you got any money from a sporron? He made about 60 quid. Yeah? I suppose so.

Speaker 2 But it's, I look back and I, and I shouldn't cringe because it's just a fun thing to do, but I think I wouldn't do that now. Oh, but it's better than

Speaker 2 kicking up a bus stop.

Speaker 2 But it just makes you realize how kind of fearless and just a bit and just you just throw caution to the wind at 14 yeah i'm gonna go and knock on 200 strangers doors dressed as somebody was more of a community back then

Speaker 2 maybe that was it yeah

Speaker 2 and and i was well i was in brighton on halloween and it was the standard of costume was extremely high or better good oh too high i mean i'm

Speaker 2 didn't go to a Halloween party for the 20th year in a row. Yeah, no.
I don't think I've ever been to a Halloween party.

Speaker 2 But the pictures you see on instagram you're like are you got have you got help yeah how's this happen yeah i think people do have help yeah i think they do

Speaker 2 they do if they go to like if people go to jonathan ross's party dave yeah they have like makeup artists help them and personal assistants and stuff yes yeah oh no absolutely I once stood about 10 yards away from Jonathan Ross and that's the closest I've come to so I've never met him But I would dread going to his Halloween party because I would have to make an effort and I don't know what I'd...

Speaker 2 Can he just go ghoul brackets general. I think you can go as ghoul brackets general, but it has to be like you have to spend six hours in some prosthetics.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 how would you

Speaker 2 where would you start? Who would you would you talk to? I think if I'd if I was suddenly invited to a John on my phone, yeah, I think I would find it really quite overwhelming

Speaker 2 because they are quite star yeah yeah like I'm not saying I'm gonna I'm not gonna be invited, that's that's that's path for the course, that's fine, That is fine.

Speaker 2 Because I'd be too embarrassed to be a ghoul on my phone at someone's house. Yeah.
Surrounded by the great and good of the British entertainment industry.

Speaker 2 I would just have to, yeah, I'd have to leave it.

Speaker 2 But I was in Brighton. People made a real effort.
It was incredible. Did you ever just leave a box of sweets out on your doorstep? No, because we did that and then one kid just took 150 sweets.

Speaker 2 It's bang out of order. Yeah.

Speaker 2 You think you can just leave it there and that will do? Because they'll just

Speaker 2 come on. If you left a

Speaker 2 bag of sweets on your kitchen counter, your kids would make them all. I know, but you just think there's more of a good spirit on Halloween.

Speaker 2 Why would you think that?

Speaker 2 It's the least spirited time of the year. It's a cruel day.

Speaker 2 I went trick-or-treating

Speaker 2 last year with my daughter and her two best friends. Yeah.
And there was like a group of girls ahead of us. like by about 30 paces and there was one kid.

Speaker 2 The concept of sharing hasn't been broached with this girl at all.

Speaker 2 She must have ended the evening with 1500 sweets. Yeah.
Like it was insane how many sweets she had.

Speaker 2 But yeah. I don't know if this is a South London thing.

Speaker 2 Awful lot of aging mods at Charlton, which I really liked. A lot of century-year-old, very well-turned-out men and a lot of young men with their hair slicked back like they were the craze.
Really?

Speaker 2 Do you do Man City fans do this? I don't think so. Stick their hair back with gel? No.
I always noticed that at Charlton. Maybe that's it.
But is that it's

Speaker 2 would it be a mod area, that area of London? I think, yeah, in part. Uh, Izzy got me a place to park, and it had loads of one-star reviews.
And then I googled it and it was an abandoned estate.

Speaker 2 Oh, that'll be that'll be it. Yeah, yeah, so we went to Blackheath and got the train instead.

Speaker 2 Well, I think we should find out how victorious John has been this week in John wins again.

Speaker 2 John wins again.

Speaker 2 Oh, John wins again.

Speaker 2 John wins again. John wins again.
Wins again.

Speaker 2 Wins again.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 coming off my first ever loss, I think, last time, wasn't it, Dave? I think you've had two losses now. Oh, well, he knew

Speaker 2 John wins. I'm doing it on the...
John, you'll be pleased. I'm doing it on the new whiteboards that we don't use very often to make use of the purchase.
Oh, very good.

Speaker 2 And also, because we got a lot of wins and a lot of losses this week, Dave. How have we?

Speaker 2 Yeah, if I can just get them up. So

Speaker 2 following. So first off, Dave, you ready? No.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Following the end of the tour, went a bit mad and had three nights in a row when I was in bed by 7.30pm.

Speaker 2 No idea what to do with myself. What's up, then?

Speaker 2 What do you mean? Was that a win or a loss? I don't know.

Speaker 2 Up for discussion.

Speaker 2 I think that's a huge win, personally. Yeah.
Getting enough sleep. A win? Can you call it a life? A loss?

Speaker 2 Good. Questions and statements.
I would say the tour was tiring. And you've been out a lot on the tour.
It's still less than half a week. Three days.
Yeah, you could be out there.

Speaker 2 You've been in 22 different places since August. That's true.

Speaker 2 So are we calling it a win? I thought that was a loss. Doesn't sound like a win from your demeanour.
No. So it's what you want it to be.
It's half past seven. No.
No.

Speaker 2 Well, then that just means you're chilling out in a different place. Yeah.
So that's fine. So is that a win? Because if you'd been on your sofa, it wouldn't have...
You wouldn't have mentioned it.

Speaker 2 It's the fact that you've gone to bed. That's true.
But what are you doing? Crosswords and Wordle, etc. Big time.
Well, then that's...

Speaker 2 Well, not what I do do the wordle in the morning but like wordle revision okay wordle revision crosswords the sort of fun stuff that you didn't get a chance to do on tour yes even though i did do a lot of crosswords yeah but in bedroom wordal revision but in bed rather than on a sofa yes in bed by seven thirty so

Speaker 2 this stuff times three times stuff you like doing yes you've just chosen a different

Speaker 2 space.

Speaker 2 Yes. So I actually think that is a win.
You're not going to sleep at half past seven. No.
Well, then, yeah. Because then it'll be up at two.

Speaker 2 Best part of the day.

Speaker 2 That's okay. Okay.

Speaker 2 Three years sober. Oh, yesterday.

Speaker 2 I'm saying that's a win, by the way. Three years.
Three years. Oh, yeah.
Where the frig is that going?

Speaker 2 Sort of nutcase would say that was a loss.

Speaker 2 Legend, laugh. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 We all know that's not true. Three years.
Three long years.

Speaker 2 so bed at 730 so you were you were 40 so you had yeah i was 40. okay

Speaker 2 that is a huge win i wish it was at the top of the wins column now john why didn't you start with that rather than bed by 730 times three uh well i didn't want to brag uh

Speaker 2 i think you should absolutely brag to be honest also think about all the stuff you've done since you've been sober

Speaker 2 I'm in bed by 7.30. No, but you've done tours, he's written shows, he's completed three crossword books, completed three crossword books, he's trained two novels.
Read two novels,

Speaker 2 he's training for a marathon. Oh, yeah, the running would not be happening.
The running wouldn't be. If you were hammered, you wouldn't be running, wouldn't you?

Speaker 2 God, no, but I would be doing CrossFit still. Would you? Yeah, I did that hungover for the first year.
Well, I bet it wasn't enjoyable. I didn't make any difference to my body.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, no, that's not true. It did, but it was when I stopped drinking, I suddenly became

Speaker 2 a Geins machine. A super hunk.

Speaker 2 Yes, he was. That's fantastic.
Well done, Mate. That's really good.
Three years. That makes me feel old.

Speaker 2 Speaking of running, Dave, we've got three wins on the bounce.

Speaker 2 5k PB. Again? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Another one. First ever sub-25.
5k. 5k.
Nice flat course. Nice flat course.
Dulwich Park. Oh, with the lovely Robin and the lovely Ruth.

Speaker 2 2440. Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 24.58 on the gun, but 24.40 in real terms. Okay.

Speaker 2 Chafing. Problem last week.
Solution this week. Was this from an email, or is this from your brain?

Speaker 2 This is from my brain, but it will involve me using a brand name, but it is quite a funny one. Okay.
I don't know any other chafe brands to kind of balance this out, but go for it.

Speaker 2 I'll come up with a few. Okay.
Runderwear.

Speaker 2 Johnson's Baby Oil, Pseudocreme, Umavate, Aqueous Creamy 45 Vaseline. Body Glide.
Body Glide. But they're all lotions.
These are anti-Chafe pants. Are they? Oh, yeah.
How does that work?

Speaker 2 Okay, Tesco FNF pants, sloggies,

Speaker 2 ones you buy from Next. Yes.

Speaker 2 We are covered. The only difference I can see is that they're about 10 sizes smaller.

Speaker 5 Yeah, so it keeps everything.

Speaker 2 Is that confusing?

Speaker 2 Your entire sort of midriff is pinned to itself. Because I have spanks for the runner.
I bought a pair of pants

Speaker 2 over the summer. Three pairs in a box that were too small.
And they're so tight, they're actually painful to wear.

Speaker 2 Oh, it's a good job I've not had children, don't plan to have children, because I ain't having children after 20k.

Speaker 2 You can run in them, though. Yes, you can.
You can give you a stomach ache. You can't mate in them.

Speaker 2 Mine gave me a stomach ache because they were so tight. Do they? Yeah.
Also, no, like the flabby bits around your bottom of your back pop out the top of your box. None of it looks great.

Speaker 2 It's big time. Yeah, which isn't muffin top.

Speaker 2 That's where all my fat's going at the minute it seems uh so what's the win is it just what chafe solutions chafe solutions i don't want to give the brand name for the no for the cara chafe solutions sounds like a better name chafe solutions yeah okay uh final running 30 grand on the fundraiser whoa

Speaker 2 30 g's dave that's fantastic that's superb that's significant thank you to everyone who's donated uh raising money for standing together against domestic abuse you're making a difference john sober John is making a difference.

Speaker 2 That's very, very good. True.
Yes. That is huge.

Speaker 2 Are they happy? Were they tight at the email to go? Great.

Speaker 2 That's not why I do it, Dave. No, I know, but you got nice.

Speaker 2 I'm sure they have, yes. Great.
Raise. Raised over 30k.
Good. Hmm.
There's no losses at this stage, John. Hmm.
Find it hard to believe there's not been a single loss.

Speaker 2 Dave, if you were to spend a sick and Ellis, actually, in fact, both of you.

Speaker 2 If you were to spend a significant amount of money on a coat

Speaker 2 that was waterproof,

Speaker 2 would you expect the coloured lining to stain your clothes underneath it? Well, no, because the water wouldn't be getting to the coloured lining, John. I know, Dad.
Surely.

Speaker 2 Well, we've got a mixture of problems here. Have you lost a t-shirt?

Speaker 2 I've lost a pretty expensive jumper. Oh.

Speaker 2 Actually, with yellow stains from a piped yellow lining that the die runs from, which feels

Speaker 2 like an oversight. Yes.

Speaker 2 Big time.

Speaker 2 Heads are going to roll.

Speaker 2 At least, if you want to win

Speaker 2 out of it, and

Speaker 2 if you want to spin positive rather than negative, at least that's a consumer affairs, consumer rights issue, as opposed to you just hating yourself.

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 I don't know that I'm covered by the law. It's not your court.
Am I covered by the law?

Speaker 2 If you kept the receipt. I think it might have been free.

Speaker 2 Then

Speaker 2 I said if you had spent a lot of money.

Speaker 2 Then that does change my sympathy levels.

Speaker 2 Although you've lost a nice jumper.

Speaker 2 How angry can you get at free stuff?

Speaker 2 I guess is my question. I think, though, you can be angry at the ether

Speaker 2 for products that are possibly expensive, making claims

Speaker 2 and writing checks that are not. Actually,

Speaker 2 it's empathy for people who paid full price for that coat. Yes, actually.
I'm being very public-spirited.

Speaker 2 But it's definitely a loss because I

Speaker 2 lost a jumper. Oh, I am now struggling to write on the right-hand side of the board due to my left-handedness.
You just need to learn to write or write right-handed. Do you want me to write?

Speaker 2 Because I'm right-handed. I can't plant.
You've got to plant. I can't plant, John, because this is a border.
This is a board mark. So it'll just literally swipe it across.

Speaker 2 No, but you need to write above your hand, not to the side. I'm 41.
It ain't happening.

Speaker 2 Statistically, you've got 39 years to get this right.

Speaker 2 Shame. That's quite good.
Oh, and I'm getting 100. I take 80.
No, I'm getting 200. Are you? Big time.
Well, make sure you host my 20th, the 20th anniversary of my death.

Speaker 2 No, I'm not going to be up for hosting by the time of 100. I'll turn up.

Speaker 2 Die runs. Oh, you write it.
You know what? You know what you're doing, don't you, well?

Speaker 2 Another win. I went to see a Frank Zappa tribute band.
Treacherous Cretins. And they're absolutely great.
Talk to me.

Speaker 2 I don't know enough about Zappa to know why that's a title that is a clever play on words. It's not a play on words, it's just a line from one of his songs.
Fine. And Sam Ward is the guitarist.

Speaker 2 What are they called? Treacherous Cretins.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 Sam and I have bonded over Frank Zappa. And John on drums and Jen on keyboards are listeners to the show.
Are they? Yes, they are indeed. So, hey, John, hey, Jen, hey, Sam.
It was an absolute belter.

Speaker 2 That's a hard band to be in. The hardest band it's possible to be in.
I think it is. Yeah.
And they did a fantastic job. And the audience were 98% male and 98% 67 years old.

Speaker 2 Really?

Speaker 2 I went for a meal last night and I walked past the palladium. Oh, yeah.
Our old stumping ground. Oh, yeah.
And there was an Australian, the Australian Pink Floyd were on. Ooh.

Speaker 2 Doing, I think, Dark Sides of the Moon in its entirety. And I saw an old fella just before going in having a big old blimpin' spliff.
Because he was going to be like shy thanking. Wow.

Speaker 2 So that was absolutely Brills. Great.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 finally,

Speaker 2 new source of herbal teas.

Speaker 2 I won't name the brand.

Speaker 2 But there's an absolute belt. Is there? Yeah.
So this is a win. A huge win.
Is this why you bought in all your old herbal teas for Michael? Yes, I've had a herbal tea cupboard shake-up.

Speaker 2 Because

Speaker 2 you can get stuff that you never use because of another brand I won't name. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Who seem to be pursuing a pro-licorice, pro-fenny agenda without mentioning it in the name or the description of the tea. Ah, the wallies.
So it will say your chamomile's your lavenders.

Speaker 2 And you'll think, why does this all taste like blim and licorice? I thought you look in the ingredients. Top ingredients licorice.

Speaker 2 So why are you calling it chamomile and lavender? Why are they doing that, do you think? Because I think they bet big on licorice.

Speaker 2 They bet big on aniseed. But why aren't they shouting from the rooftops about it? Because it's in every single GD one of them.
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 So I have given them to Michael as an act of kindness. Nice.

Speaker 2 To make room for my new brand of herbal teas, which are available online and in store.

Speaker 2 I've written that you've had a herbal tea renaissance. Herbal tea renaissance is exactly the word.

Speaker 2 So that's the end of the wins and the losses. Okay, go on.
L's got the board now. Very positive.

Speaker 2 It's six wins

Speaker 2 and a mere two losses. Well, why do I feel so scared?

Speaker 2 I think lack of sleep will do it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And we should have really done the good radio bar for three years sober, so I'm going to give you a retrospective. Oh, that's kind.
You need that for that, absolutely.

Speaker 2 It's decent.

Speaker 2 It does look like being in bed by 7.30 is a greater achievement than three years of sobriety, according to the list

Speaker 2 but that's a good week for robbins it is a good week i need to start doing these at home yes in fact i need a bl a blackboard in my house or a whiteboard yes and chalk them up because it didn't feel like a win week but it's because the brain kind of lets you forget about the wins exactly the brain plays tricks on him the brain focuses on the negatives so how do you when do you come up with these like are you keeping a tally as you're going on?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 Sort of, yeah, I've got a big list, but it's never quite clear when it is we're doing them. Is it every other week? We try every other week, yes.
Fortnite of wins. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, then you've had a very good 14-day period. This is this is positive.
Great. Oh my god, in terms of my wins, the book, the birthday present John bought me.
Oh yes.

Speaker 2 Is that can be can that be another win? Because I'm really glad Ellis likes it. It can be.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so for my birthday, John bought me a book called Bliss to Be Live by Gavin Hills, which was a compendium of his writing. And it is absolutely fantastic.
It's unreal. Is it? Yes.

Speaker 2 I actually shake my head. I thought you would say shake my hand.

Speaker 2 I shake my own hand. No, actually, at the end of every page, I'm just like, this guy could really write.

Speaker 2 So brilliant. Yeah, tragically taken too soon.
But the foreword is by Miranda Sawyer because she knew him.

Speaker 2 she was very close to him so he used to write for the face and the independent and the guardian and lots of other publications so it was my birthday present from john and i'd never heard of him i must admit because i never read the face when i was in the 90s because i was too young really was sort of aimed at older people and teenagers but uh

Speaker 2 yeah

Speaker 2 he's an absolutely extraordinary writer and he's one of the best book-based presents I've had for a very long time. So well done.
Jing, ding. I'm going to put that down as a win, actually.

Speaker 2 Okay, so that's a win for both of you, I'd say.

Speaker 2 A double win, spreading the wins wins spread wins yeah what else do you get for your big b-day al yeah what else do you get for your birthday i've not opened my presents yet i'm not doing that tonight because it was the school run so i had enough time to open them and then uh so yeah it's all happening tonight

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Speaker 2 Well, there we go. More wins in a couple of weeks, more losses.
Fingers crossed, not.

Speaker 2 But let's have a read of your correspondence. I have been inundated with people's Wordle records.
And how does that make you feel?

Speaker 2 Initially angry, then suspicious. Okay.
So they're better than clouds for humanity. Yes, but they're good ones.
So people aren't sharing their bad ones. You can never

Speaker 2 know

Speaker 2 what someone has seen or heard before they do the wordle. Let me paint you a picture.
A couple in bed. It's a Sunday morning.
They're making love. They're making love.

Speaker 2 After they make love, they toilet, they shower or towel down with a few moist wipes.

Speaker 2 They shake hands. They shake hands.
They have a post-mortem. I like to do it when you did this.

Speaker 2 I really hate to do it when you did that.

Speaker 2 Then they do the wordle. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 The husband, let's call him Ian. Let's call him Ian the Liar.
Ian Wordle.

Speaker 2 Ian the Liar Wordle. Yeah.

Speaker 2 He hears a little squeal of delight from his wife, Carol. Okay, it's a rat.
They've got two cats. No one's been brought in.
No, she has got a squeal of delight and goes, ooh, two greens.

Speaker 2 Now,

Speaker 2 Ian the liar Wordle knows that Carol's starter word is fishy. And for the first 50 years.
And he hates her for that, because it doesn't make any sense. And for the first 50 years of his life,

Speaker 2 no one has...

Speaker 2 Having Wordle as a surname didn't make any sense. But now people are like, oh, I really like the game.
And he's like, yeah, like the game. Yeah.
So her starter word is fishy. She's got three greens.

Speaker 2 So he knows.

Speaker 2 Oh, it's actually fishy. Sorry.
I misunderstood what you were saying. Oh, no, it's the word fishy.
It's actually fishy. Got it.
Okay.

Speaker 2 So he knows if she's got three greens in fishy, it's not going to be

Speaker 2 F

Speaker 2 blank blank H Y

Speaker 2 it's likely to be blank I S blank Y

Speaker 2 or blank blank S H Y yeah

Speaker 2 and he's thinking all of this as he's towing himself down naked as the day

Speaker 2 after a really great Sunday morning sex session. So Ian the liar wordle

Speaker 2 thinks, you know what? I'm going to change out raise from my starter word, and I'm going to put mushy.

Speaker 2 And then lo and behold,

Speaker 2 he's got the wordle in one. By jove, he's done it in one.

Speaker 2 And you think that's what's happening worldwide. Look, I'm just painting a picture.
There's everyone cheating apart from the world.

Speaker 2 That's what you're saying. That's what we think couples do.

Speaker 2 What I'm saying is... What are you saying, John? Well, Ian hasn't cheated.
He's not.

Speaker 2 it's circumstance Ian has been given an advantage yeah and he's made use of that I'm not saying the rest of the world is cheating apart from me but it's not cricket is it I'm saying that I am in a controlled laboratory of Wordle that's what my life is in a sense yeah you're the control I'm the control there's no spoilers in my world no right

Speaker 2 so

Speaker 2 sure ben from Sydney Australia has emailed in and I'm not saying his name is Ben the Liar,

Speaker 2 because Ben has said, I think you're going to get a lot of these, correct?

Speaker 2 But last month, at the peak of a winning streak in our Wordle group, I was compelled to screen grab my 14-day stats to immortalize my prowess.

Speaker 2 At an average of 2.7, I think I beat your previous listener and dare say lay claim to the crown to the lowest average Wordle score.

Speaker 2 sent to a podcast themed around self-hatred, mouse catching and brand avoidance.

Speaker 2 Love and like Ben. Now, can I offer something? That's a funny email.
It's nicely written. Also, lovely that we're getting listeners from Sydney, Australia.
Very, yeah, love that.

Speaker 2 Can we not just accept that Ben is clever?

Speaker 2 Ben is bright. And when Ellis says we, he doesn't mean we.

Speaker 2 Ben did well at school, I would imagine. Yeah.
They've got a great education system, the Aussies.

Speaker 2 He's

Speaker 2 just

Speaker 2 very intelligent. Whoa, if we can just whoa for a second.
And that's that's English will stop a horse. That's English will stop a horse.
So

Speaker 2 I'm not actually.

Speaker 2 So Ben's stats show he's got above average luck. I'm not going to have a go at him for that because you can't, you know, that's part of the game.
He's a lucky guy. He's in Sydney.
The weather's great.

Speaker 2 He's probably got a great job. So his skill average is 87.
His luck average is 68. Steps 2.7.

Speaker 2 Merin, who was the person who emailed in last week, who I accused of lying, was saying. And that's a lovely touch for the listening guy, isn't it?

Speaker 2 Can you imagine emailing in to a podcast you listen to and the hosts calls you a live? Lauren Laverne's not doing that on Word discs.

Speaker 2 So Merin has got skill average of 80, luck average of 66, average steps 2.8. So similar to Ben, Ben has pipped Merin to the post.
We can't say

Speaker 2 that they're operating in a Wordle laboratory. What if, on the Wordle group? Probably can say that.
What if, Dave, on the Wordle group, Ben is seeing other people's grids?

Speaker 2 That would immediately eliminate him from the terms of engagement of the Wordle Willy Wordley group.

Speaker 2 Are you single? And after you have sex with your wife, does your wife go, ooh,

Speaker 2 to three greens?

Speaker 2 And then also,

Speaker 2 are you operating in a

Speaker 2 word laboratory?

Speaker 2 I'm just saying.

Speaker 2 That has to be, no, that has to be metric, doesn't it?

Speaker 2 Dear John,

Speaker 2 my name is

Speaker 2 Andrea, and I operate in a Wordle laboratory. With no spoilers.
With no spoilers, and my average is 2.8. Yeah, so my average skill currently is 90.

Speaker 2 So that is higher, but

Speaker 2 I don't even need to say that. No.
Why did you then? Because just for completing the stats. How long does it take you? The Wordle.
In terms of minutes, yeah.

Speaker 2 Anywhere between two minutes and half an hour. Half an hour.
Well, this is the fault in the Wordle stats.

Speaker 2 Because say

Speaker 2 people are already hating this, so I'll just stop. I actually find it very uninteresting.
Say... I just love seeing your collapse.

Speaker 2 Say for my first guess, I get a green and two yellows,

Speaker 2 and I then work out every possible possible word it could be yeah and say there's 20 words it could be I then work out an eliminator That will tell me which of those words it is that I play as my second then I get it in three

Speaker 2 the wordle bot thinks my second guess is bad skill rating though that has a low skill rating But that's only because it doesn't know I've worked them all out. Yeah,

Speaker 2 it's basing skill on when you don't know what the words are going to be. I just, I just, I just,

Speaker 2 I haven't got the patience. I'm random.
Ratio

Speaker 2 Mawam

Speaker 2 Fishy.

Speaker 2 An enormous well done to Ben and Merin. Yeah.
I don't think I've ever averaged below three.

Speaker 2 Apart from when we were sharing grids and I used to guess them in one place. And why don't we count?

Speaker 2 Why don't we give them the benefit of the doubt? Hey?

Speaker 2 Just

Speaker 2 don't give them the benefit of the doubt. They'll live in laboratories.
Every single wordle they did out of those 14 was done in laboratory setting without seeing anyone else's grid and in a lab.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Hello, my three little birds. I've been intrigued hearing about Ellis' son's growing interest in bird watching.
I was even more delighted when he mentioned Beddington Nature Reserve.

Speaker 2 I took him bird watching a couple of weeks ago and he saw a kingfisher. And we were in the

Speaker 2 hyde, and there was a bloke to his left who was about 60, had been bird watching for years.

Speaker 2 And and he'd only ever seen like four king kingfishers and they were both high-fiving and my son went mad when he saw this kingfish he was so pleased it's a love it is a lovely hobby actually yeah

Speaker 2 I got into birding as I like to call it during the pandemic the age of 34 because I'm cool the more apparent sound of birdsong the silence of lockdown and bad mental health led me to take solace in nature and occupy my busy mind through the learning button searching for Arabian friends which believe it or not number in excess of 10,000 species worldwide.

Speaker 2 It since become a hobby of mine, particularly when travelling, and also locally around Beddington, an unassuming birding hotbed amidst the capital's urban sprawl.

Speaker 2 The issue of the nature reserve is, in fact, a political hot potato. So it was closed, wasn't it?

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, when I turned up, I would just put in Beddington Nature Reserve, and I turned up, and it looked like a building site, and it was.

Speaker 2 And the guy in high-fizz went, Mike, it's not open yet, we're building a nature reserve. So we just drove home.

Speaker 2 Only the really, really cool birders in the local club have limited access, of which certainly I'm not one. Suffice to say, some public access is possible, Alice, written in caps.

Speaker 2 There are three publicly accessible hides along a permissive path, best access from Beddington Park or Hack Bridge roundabout. That sounds safe.

Speaker 2 But yes, so he's in the meantime, I recommend the Merlin Sound ID and eBird listing apps to enhance your son's engagement. All the best.
Michael in Wallington.

Speaker 2 Bird watching, birding, and twitching are considered different things, which I didn't realise.

Speaker 2 The former about general enjoyment of it, it, the second more about listing birds seen and twitching, the act of rushing to see any rare sightings. Oh.
So

Speaker 2 an alarm goes off and you're like, oh my god, there's a grebe.

Speaker 2 And you drop everything. Someone's given some mice-catching advice, which is to throw a tea towel over it.
That's from Justin and Vic Foxall. Yes.

Speaker 2 I've seen this.

Speaker 2 My concern with that is that I wouldn't be able to see the mouse.

Speaker 2 I think you'd see the lump of the mouse. The The lump, of course.
But I think they then stay still because it goes dark. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So then I suppose I'd have to pop a magazine under the... Yeah, you just pick it up with your hand.
Yeah, but I don't want to hurt it. I don't think you would.
Okay.

Speaker 2 All right. Yeah, maybe.
I'll have to give that some thought. I think if you've held a child's hand, you can pick up a mouse without hurting it.

Speaker 2 Okay. It's a similar tension.
Not when they're running towards a road.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Because I had to pick up a pigeon in the kitchen, and I did that very, very gently. Yeah, that would be

Speaker 2 pigeon-equivalent pressure. All right, then.
I might give that a go.

Speaker 2 It just, I don't know, it feels like it feels harder. They're not getting mice mixed up with parrots, are they? No.

Speaker 2 You meant to throw us that, Div.

Speaker 2 All I'm saying is, I've not heard of that before, but I have heard of if you want to make a parrot quiet. It's fail-safe.
A fail-safe mice-catching technique, according to Justin. Okay, Vic.

Speaker 2 Thank you, Justin and Vic. Great.
This AI cut flap cannot come soon enough.

Speaker 2 I cannot emphasise that enough.

Speaker 2 Lovely. Very good.
Keep your emails coming in to ellisandjohn at bbc.co.uk. And shall we finish on some mad dads?

Speaker 2 My dad, when he brought his first non-stick frying pan, kept the instructions and stuck them on the wall next to it. Actual real wooden clogs

Speaker 2 and set about eating what must have been been north of 24 egg canopies. He then proceeded to empty 40 litres or so of shot onto the timber and strike a match.
Dads are mad. Dads are mad.
Dads are mad.

Speaker 2 If your dads are mad, get out a pen and pad and write it down and send it to us here. Yeah.
This is just something I made up. No,

Speaker 2 it worked. Thanks, Dave.
This is from Dom. Dear Ellis John and producer Dave, let me start by saying that I grew up in Newcastle, Australia, mate.
I bet he's got other wordle.

Speaker 2 This detail is relevant because I want to tell you about my dead,

Speaker 2 and the location helps you to situate my story. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 That's the voice I used to do to annoy ex-girlfriends. Yeah,

Speaker 2 I can see it.

Speaker 2 My dad. When?

Speaker 2 What? When?

Speaker 2 2004 to 2023. No, no, but what scenarios?

Speaker 2 Oh, just around and about the house.

Speaker 2 I'll tell you how much I love you, actually. What would you like for dinner this evening?

Speaker 2 I've got some bologna sauce left over from the other night. Would you like a deep bath? I put quite a lot of chili in it, so you might not like it because you don't like hot food.

Speaker 2 Ah, your skin looks nice, you ripper. Girlfriend's plural's interesting, isn't it? Because you've known it's anoid one of us.
We go again.

Speaker 2 We go again. Come into the bit, Dave.
We go to Norwich more of the sin. Someone eventually will find this hilarious, and I will just keep trying until I find that person.

Speaker 2 Well, look who we've got here. That's another

Speaker 2 beautiful woman in my bedroom. There she is.

Speaker 2 Right, read the rest normally, please, please, John. John, my dad, had a lot of madnesses, but probably the easiest starting point was his fathering of ten children.
He is

Speaker 2 all to the same mother.

Speaker 2 Yes, they were Catholic, and yes, they spent most of their early part of their marriage in rural Australia. I haven't got time

Speaker 2 in my life or the capacity for another eight kids.

Speaker 2 You

Speaker 2 would fall. You would turn into dust.

Speaker 2 Yeah. You'd turn into dust.
but it would happen grain by grain I would just become suddenly no there'd be a tipping point it would be like in um

Speaker 2 like falling down the michael douglas film well he doesn't turn into dust no

Speaker 2 he has a breakdown no it would be like in the end of indiana jones when they um touch the holy grail ah yeah i don't go turn into dust thing i'd turn into sludge and i would just drip onto the carpet and i think the oil slick i think you'd just freeze and like a mouse and drunketa yeah Yeah, and not do anything for the rest of your life.

Speaker 2 Dave, can you imagine having another two twins and then triplets?

Speaker 2 No, and I have made the necessary

Speaker 2 adjustments. But I froze when I heard about the twins, which took us from one to three for about seven minutes.

Speaker 2 Well, this particular story of Mad Daddry began in 1982 when mum was pregnant with twins, children nine and ten.

Speaker 2 Eesh. Dad decided we needed more space.
He was not wrong. Two adults and eight children in a four-bedroom house was unworkable.

Speaker 2 So he got builders in, but of course, only the absolute cheapest builders you could find. Basically, the how low can you go squad.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Not too long after my younger sisters were born, it became apparent via a large hump in the linoleum that the floor of the new extension and that of the original house didn't quite line up.

Speaker 2 Most people would call a builder to fix it. Some might get out of spirit level.
Not my dad. He went somewhere and bought a car jack.

Speaker 2 You know, the thing you keep in a boot to change a tire.

Speaker 2 From then on, every few months, dad would crawl under the house, pump the jack up a bit, level it out, then leave it there like he was giving the house a little pep talk.

Speaker 2 To his credit, despite him needing to crawl under the house every six months or so, the car jack is still keeping the extension level.

Speaker 2 Okay. And that's been there since I was born.
I feel a bit funny about that. I think it's really impressive, to be honest.

Speaker 2 That was Dad, mad as a cut snake, but also the kindest, gentlest man who graced the earth. He could never pass a person in need without stopping to help, and passed away in 2008 from a brain tumour.

Speaker 2 I honestly believe the world hasn't seen a kinder human man since. From Dom.
Oh, Dom, that's so sweet. Child number eight.
Yeah. Child eight of ten.

Speaker 2 Wowie.

Speaker 2 What would I wouldn't even think to do that as the solution to a wayward house? Well, I'm guessing they would their house doesn't have foundations.

Speaker 2 I'm guessing it's just sort of, you know, wood timber frame plopped on a bit of land. Yeah.

Speaker 2 So building an extension, though not something I could do unless I tried really hard and thought about it for ages and acquired some new skills, some new tools. Yeah.

Speaker 2 I don't think it's like as perhaps as bad as if you paid for a builder to do a foundation extension that then didn't line up yeah because surely a jack isn't doing the job on that

Speaker 2 i admire it though i do i admire that kind of uh out-of-the-box thinking i don't know i admire anyone that was ten kids yes how was it how was it done

Speaker 2 yeah i've got a friend who's up to eight now i think seven or eight i think i've got a couple of mates on five yeah

Speaker 2 and i don't know if he's i don't think he's stopped yet then you need to to take him for a drink, I'd say, mate. You ain't got time.

Speaker 2 He never leaves the house, I don't know. How do they drive anywhere? You don't need two washing machines.
They must have two washing machines. I think that's the least of his concerns.

Speaker 2 They've moved to North Wales, so they've got a sizable place now compared to what they had. Okay.
And they're just kind of living the life of a

Speaker 2 country house. Enormous carbon footprint.
Oh, it's huge. Yeah, it's huge.

Speaker 2 I've been spreading that throughout the generations. But one of the big, one of the eight might come up with the

Speaker 2 solution for climate change. Yes.
Statistically, they won't. Might do though.
But they won't. No.

Speaker 2 But if they all have ten kids, that's a hundred grandkids.

Speaker 2 And if they all have ten kids, that's a thousand great-grandkids. Well, then the...

Speaker 2 And then that's a town in North Wales. And then

Speaker 2 it becomes even more likely that they come up with the idea for

Speaker 2 how to solve climate change. That's a good point, actually, yeah.
Yeah. So keep going, keep going.
Keep going, and great-great-grandkids would be 100,000. That's unique.

Speaker 2 Well, then it's definitely solved by that point, isn't it? Yeah, but it's one family from North Wales, hasn't it? The feather in the Welsh camp.

Speaker 2 Keep your dads, your mad dads, coming to Ellis and John at bbc.co.uk.

Speaker 2 And that's all for today. And it's been a pleasure to be with you.
And we wish you all the Billy best in your endeavours.

Speaker 2 Oh, absolutely. And if, and I cannot stress this enough, if you are doing Wordle in lab conditions, let us know.

Speaker 2 Because John loves to commend the listeners. Yeah, if you've seen Taskmaster, the tasks in the lab,

Speaker 2 ideally with CCTV from two angles,

Speaker 2 just to prove to me you're not seeing any other grids or your partner isn't squealing with delight.

Speaker 2 Or you're not looking over your shoulder and seeing that maybe they've got an S but not in the right place. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah.

Speaker 2 We do respect you all. Respect you all.

Speaker 2 Sen, Marin, I salute you. Yeah.
Yes.

Speaker 2 You were better than me. Yeah.
If you were in lap conditions with no spoilers. Yes.
Anyway, if you're listening on BBC Sounds, we'll be back with you on Saturday with the Bureau de Change of the Mind.

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