RE-RELEASE - Danny DeVito

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Speaker 2 Quince.com/slash fly. Hey, David, you remember the show Always Sunny in Philadelphia?

Speaker 5 Yeah, it's been on since I was born.

Speaker 2 It's coming back.

Speaker 1 It's coming back.

Speaker 1 Coming back.

Speaker 2 And of course, one of the stars of Always Sunny in Philadelphia is our good friend Danny DeVito, who we interviewed a little while back.

Speaker 5 That's right. Danny

Speaker 5 did SNL with us.

Speaker 5 Also, everyone on Always Sunny is a star, and it's pretty shocking that a show can still be on the air. Even though it's really really funny.
It's just that doesn't really happen as much anymore.

Speaker 2 It's like bonanza or gun smoke.

Speaker 5 Yeah, Simpsons. There's

Speaker 5 some that just always come back. And

Speaker 5 so I'm glad it's back on. I'm glad it's still funny.
I'm glad it's very edgy. It still gives people what they want.

Speaker 5 And I'm glad they get away with all the stuff they get away with because not many shows will try to do that anymore.

Speaker 2 It's a great show. And,

Speaker 2 you know, we thought, we had a thought. We huddled together with our team and thought that maybe we would

Speaker 2 show Danny DeVito's interview

Speaker 2 this week.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's a perfect time for it.

Speaker 5 Yeah, a lot of people they come and go and it kind of goes back in the library, but we put it at the forefront and say, if you watch My Always Sunny, don't miss this episode. It was very funny.

Speaker 5 And he was just very interesting talking about the New York days and blah, blah, blah. So here he is.
I hope you like him. We do, Mr.
Danny DeVito.

Speaker 2 But I was just thinking, doing this in the 1960s, we might have waited for Yule Brenner to come on. And that would have been fun.

Speaker 1 Yule Brenner would be the first

Speaker 1 guest.

Speaker 2 Podcast guest in 1965. We'd follow him up with Steve McQueen.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he put him on. He does a little dance.

Speaker 1 He does the accent.

Speaker 2 He talks about the doing the jump, but he didn't really do it in The Great Escape.

Speaker 1 He didn't really, yeah, all the stuff that he does.

Speaker 1 I had an apartment in new york once

Speaker 1 in the 60s i got on the bulletin board of um

Speaker 1 of uh

Speaker 1 the american academy of dramatic arts where i went to school and uh

Speaker 1 you know i was looking for apartments so everybody was always you know scrounging for like

Speaker 1 no money but we had no money so uh they had this bulletin board anyway i went to an address and it was in the weirdest place was on madison avenue

Speaker 1 in like 57th or 8th Street. 645 was the address I remember.

Speaker 1 And yeah, wow. And

Speaker 1 I walk in the door. It's a really shitty building.
Now it's all, you know,

Speaker 1 totally, totally turned into what New York is, you know.

Speaker 1 And I

Speaker 1 go in the building, and the first thing I saw was a giant picture

Speaker 1 of Bule Brenner.

Speaker 1 Oh, And it was a little shitty, yeah, a little shitty hallway-like kind of thing.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 anyway, it worked out because I got the apartment. It was like the second flight up.
It had an elevator actually in the building, but very, very, very, very old school. And, of course, 16.

Speaker 1 It was 64 or something like that.

Speaker 2 So, what was your rent? Do you remember your rent?

Speaker 1 Yes, $50 a month.

Speaker 2 $50 a month.

Speaker 1 And it was a one-bedroom apartment. And the back, and the bedroom was a living room, bedroom kind of situation.
It had a nice bathroom and a kitchen and

Speaker 1 a

Speaker 1 yeah. And the bedroom had windows that looked out over the tops of

Speaker 1 buildings in New York. So it was like one of those, it was like if you were

Speaker 1 doing a play or a movie about New York and you said, like build me uh a

Speaker 1 uh outside like what the cyclorama would look like or today what what you would put in in in uh you know the background of your movie

Speaker 1 it was all the stove you know the exhaust pipes and the tops of buildings and railings and all that it like it looked like that you could do you could do uh west side story on the roof

Speaker 1 did people hang out of the out of their out of their windows going hey what's with the fucking noise over here no no they weren't doing that it was like more like it wasn't like enclosed like like if there were buildings that went up because in that area you know at that time it was just the top so you had a great panorama of looking east

Speaker 1 uh

Speaker 1 but no you didn't see a river or anything i was on madison avenue and

Speaker 1 but to actually have that address

Speaker 1 at that time was like

Speaker 1 amazing, fucking crazy, because I put these other glasses I could see better far away.

Speaker 5 I think great, right in the heart of Midtown, right?

Speaker 1 Yes, right in the heart of, and the thing about it is that

Speaker 1 at that time, and a lot of people don't know this, Madison Avenue and Fifth Avenue were two-way streets.

Speaker 1 I mean, you guys weren't even born.

Speaker 1 I was born.

Speaker 2 I go back. I remember Yoel Brenner.
Look, I mean, David doesn't know who Yo Brenner is.

Speaker 1 Yes, you remember him. Yeah.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 5 I remember the King and I was a poster.

Speaker 1 But if you imagine Madison Avenue being a two-way street, and

Speaker 1 you know New York very well, and Fifth Avenue, also.

Speaker 1 I used to walk up from 30th and go to 57th or 8th where I lived.

Speaker 1 And it was a two-way street. It was really, there weren't any horses and carts, though.
You'd be happy to hear.

Speaker 5 You weren't that far back?

Speaker 1 It wasn't that far back. Oh, good.
All right.

Speaker 1 We're in the modern.

Speaker 5 Were you walking around with casting call magazine?

Speaker 1 I was doing

Speaker 1 what

Speaker 1 we used to get was show business and

Speaker 1 what would they call backstage. You remember that? Backstage.

Speaker 1 You guys did it all the way. It was just, we'd buy, I would, you know, I was never in the magazine.
I we'd buy these magazine, these papers that came out once a week, show business and

Speaker 1 backstage. And in there, there would be all the casting that was going on.

Speaker 1 And we would, you know, we would go to

Speaker 1 on the corner of, I think it was 47th and 7th was Howard Johnson's.

Speaker 1 And everybody would meet in there. It was like you go in, you know, take up space and have coffee and read the

Speaker 5 latest thing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, to see what was going on.

Speaker 5 Danny, did you ever find when you auditioned for these things at the beginning?

Speaker 5 I found this that you would audition and then you would hear through the grapevine, they already have offers out to stars, but they're just looking for backups or no, no.

Speaker 5 It's always the same case.

Speaker 1 So it's been that since the beginning of time and the other thing about like i i'm talking about auditioning for off off broadway off broadway

Speaker 1 uh regional theater anything that you could get and you know sometimes you get lucky and get a an audition at the public you know uh and uh you know get a tiny part in uh Shakespeare in the park, you know, like it's not literally a spear carrier, but you might have a few lines.

Speaker 1 Like, I played once I got, I played the doctor in the Merry Wise of Winslow, the Doctor's Servant, sorry, in the Merry Wise of Windsor, you know, and

Speaker 1 the best, those were the best shows to get because they literally paid, man.

Speaker 1 That was like, you would wind up with $190 something

Speaker 1 a week in those

Speaker 1 at Joe Papps. Yeah, $200.
It was a different contract.

Speaker 5 No strike needed there.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Four months of rent.

Speaker 1 Off-Broadway was great, man. Off-Broadway was $68 a week, $70 a week.

Speaker 5 Damn. That's what I made on SNL.

Speaker 1 SNL didn't exist then. Did it?

Speaker 5 Lauren Michaels

Speaker 2 existed.

Speaker 1 Well, Lauren Michaels always existed.

Speaker 5 He was a teenager.

Speaker 1 And it still exists. There is no one.

Speaker 1 formal.

Speaker 1 When did SNL start? When did Edison L start?

Speaker 2 That's a good question. 75.

Speaker 1 It's like 70 something. 75.
Yeah. So I, yeah, that's so 75.
I was already in California by then. I came, I'd gone through off-Broadway and all those things

Speaker 1 earlier

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 did children's theater in Massachusetts.

Speaker 1 I've done, you know did all that kind of stuff and then i i got lucky in the in the in 1971-ish or two around there and i got a part off broadway and played martini and cuckoo's nest oh and so that was like there should be applause then then uh i stayed in that play for almost a year and it ran at the mercer arts center and that was cool and then uh

Speaker 1 uh Milos saw it and everybody saw it. And I got lucky and got a, you know, Milos.

Speaker 1 And then I got the movie. And then after the movie opened, I moved out.
Wait, Danny. Sunny, California.

Speaker 5 My question was: when you do a play, you're not guaranteed a part in the movie, are you?

Speaker 1 No, you're not guaranteed anything.

Speaker 1 Our businesses, you must know this.

Speaker 1 It's not, there's no, there are no guarantees.

Speaker 5 There's no anything, you Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, once in a while, like, for instance, I, you can imagine like Brando giving a performance like he did in Streetcar. And then, you know,

Speaker 1 you've got to be a, you know, you have to have your head in the sand to not cast him in the movie. So

Speaker 1 same thing with, you know, Vivian.

Speaker 5 They're not going to get someone from The Bachelor.

Speaker 1 And they're not going to like, yeah, he's going to be the first choice.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I starred in Hans and Franz the musical.

Speaker 1 Sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 5 I want to hear more about Hans and Franz the musical.

Speaker 2 Hans and Franz the Musical. What I was going to ask you, Danny, is a philosophical question.

Speaker 2 Usually when people have their struggling years, struggling years, and then have hyper superstar success, which I'm going to put you in that category, they look back at those early years and go, those were some of the best days of my life.

Speaker 2 Do you feel that?

Speaker 1 Or did it suck when you look back on the struggling years?

Speaker 1 I never, I don't, first of all, I don't,

Speaker 1 I mean, unless I'm doing something like talking to you guys, like, or something where you don't think about that as much, but

Speaker 1 you do think like, you know,

Speaker 1 those days were

Speaker 1 struggles, but not, you know, not the best. They were not,

Speaker 1 those were the days.

Speaker 1 I think

Speaker 1 the toughest part about that, getting started was, you know, like you guys got started, like when you, you know, you, you, you hit television.

Speaker 1 I don't know what your history is, but how, how much you did before

Speaker 1 I met you

Speaker 1 when I did the church lady or something like that.

Speaker 2 But you were there.

Speaker 1 You were, you were there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, I remember

Speaker 1 definitely.

Speaker 2 Well, you were, you hosted a couple times, just so funny. And when I did that drum solo in the dress, you were egging me on, on, you know, and that was my best drum solo on television.

Speaker 1 There you go. You see, you have to have a coach.

Speaker 2 You were good. I had 10 years of

Speaker 2 anonymity before I got SNO.

Speaker 2 David got a movie right out of high school. But

Speaker 5 I know,

Speaker 5 but then I, Danny, thank you for asking. I did a Police Academy movie, Police Academy 4, the good one.
And I, and then I came back and turned something down.

Speaker 5 I thought I was kind of a big deal. And then I lost all my heat for three years and had to grind it back.
And it's so fucking sickening to even think about. But it all worked out.

Speaker 5 But, but, like you were saying at the beginning, when you were struggling, I think, like all of us, you don't really know any better.

Speaker 5 And you, you know, you're taking a risk by going into this world of movies and TV and theater.

Speaker 5 So you can only really look back and think, God damn, how did I get through that? But at the time,

Speaker 5 $100 is a lot. You get a little part is a lot.
You know, you're just sitting with your buddies at the coffee shop. It's such a long shot to make it that it's probably

Speaker 5 once you make it, you look back and go, God, that was tough. But at the time, it's tough, but you don't, I didn't really notice how tough it was.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you don't notice it. No, you just, well, you're focused on like, you're, you're focused on getting the job.
Yeah. So basically, that was what was going on with me.
I was like, I would,

Speaker 1 I would read those papers that, you know,

Speaker 1 and at the time,

Speaker 1 excuse me, in the 60s,

Speaker 1 I didn't have an equity card. So I just got out of school and like the way they did it

Speaker 1 was

Speaker 1 you would read in, say, you'd read in the, in, in backstage that such and such was casting something.

Speaker 1 And you go, okay, and they're casting over on 57th Street, you know, by Carnegie Hall, somewhere near one of those buildings down the block, whatever it was. And casting was, you know, say Tuesday.

Speaker 1 Okay, but you didn't get in until the end of the, you got it, if you didn't have an equity card, they saw everybody, you know, they would, they're, because everybody's looking for the right person to play the part, hopefully.

Speaker 1 If, and especially if they're not, yes,

Speaker 1 I mean, maybe they already had the lead cast, or that's the way they raised the money, or

Speaker 1 those things. But you would you would wait up in the

Speaker 1 if you go go like three o'clock, four o'clock in the afternoon and maybe the line was less

Speaker 1 and you could

Speaker 1 you know you could you waited and then in the end the very end

Speaker 1 they would let the non-equity people get in

Speaker 1 to

Speaker 1 to audition and then they'd see everybody. And as a matter of fact, the first play that I ever got,

Speaker 1 I did at

Speaker 1 in, I think it was 1968 or so,

Speaker 1 seven,

Speaker 1 the first off-Broadway show. Because I had done regional theater.
Well,

Speaker 1 I did toured with a play once that came out of school that was like kind of casting.

Speaker 1 We went to two theaters, went to the Eugene O'Neal Foundation, where they, the playwrights thing in 60 something

Speaker 1 64

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 and then like in 68 I I actually did that I went to the to one of those auditions

Speaker 1 and where they make you wait until the very end and I peeked my head into the

Speaker 1 you know I it was this big big door in one of those big old pre-war buildings and the like was on, I think it might have been on like near 57th Street.

Speaker 1 And I walk up and it's a giant door and there's nobody there because I had gone and come back.

Speaker 1 The line was really long, and hey, anyway, long story short, I stuck my head in, and there were an actor, a director,

Speaker 1 and a writer, and a producer sitting at a table really far away in this big empty room. It looked like a rehearsal room.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I just popped my head in.

Speaker 1 Like, and,

Speaker 1 you know, you still,

Speaker 1 you know, seeing people kind of thing.

Speaker 1 And the actor,

Speaker 1 a guy named Alan Garfield. You remember Alan?

Speaker 2 James Garfield's son?

Speaker 1 No, no. I don't know

Speaker 1 who his dad, but his name was Alan Garfield, but he was.

Speaker 1 You know him, Dave?

Speaker 5 No, I know Garfield, the cat.

Speaker 1 Okay, anyway,

Speaker 1 the guy literally at the table, like across the room, turns around and said, that's the guy who should play the part. Whoa.
They were trying to talk him into, yeah, he didn't want to do this part.

Speaker 1 It wasn't a huge part, but it was a good part.

Speaker 1 And I stuck my head in the door. And the guy, and the actor, not the director and the producers and the writer or whatever, he said, there's the guy who should play this part.

Speaker 1 And I just backed out of the room or something, and they came and got me. And I went in and I read the lines, did the thing.

Speaker 1 I had never seen the script before. Just, you know, those things where they give you the cold sides.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And I got a part

Speaker 1 in a play called Shoot Anything with Hair That Moves.

Speaker 1 Of course.

Speaker 1 Huge success.

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Speaker 2 I just think of the 70s and the films of the 70s and Cuckoo's Nest.

Speaker 2 And of course that play. Yeah.
Don't shoot anything that has hair.

Speaker 2 And the

Speaker 2 friends that you that you made, Jack Nicholson and Michael Douglas, and your class, right? Those 70s guys that all became and they're lifelong friends. What's the deal with those guys?

Speaker 2 Are they fun, or do you like them?

Speaker 1 Or there is Jack Nicholson and yeah, they're good to work with.

Speaker 5 Yeah, Jack's the coolest guy out there.

Speaker 1 Jack, Jack was like a guy from Jersey.

Speaker 1 He actually lived like he was born in this, this, we were born in the same hospital.

Speaker 1 Figure that?

Speaker 1 Like, well, I'll be sure.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 well, hey, I'll be damned. How about that?

Speaker 2 And that's what Jack would say. I'll be damn born in the same hospital.

Speaker 1 Yeah. How do you like that? Me and D born in the same hospital.

Speaker 1 I don't do a good

Speaker 1 accent.

Speaker 1 Let's see. And then Michael, I met,

Speaker 1 I met actually in the 60s at the Eugene Eugene O'Neill

Speaker 1 Playwrights Conference up there where we, where that play that I was going through town with,

Speaker 1 we opened the festival that year,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 that's where we met. So, and they were, and

Speaker 1 not only good guys, but really

Speaker 1 fun to work with.

Speaker 1 And once we got going, we had a couple of shots to work together, which was like really good but you know it's good when people are looking out for you because uh the business is like very difficult uh and when people are looking out for you as well as you know your your buddies and know

Speaker 1 what the scoop is

Speaker 5 then you you know you'd be fortunate to have those guys as friends you're lucky you're all good too because it's it's it's hard to help each other out or recommend someone but if everybody's good,

Speaker 5 all three of you. So it's not crazy that you would all be in another movie or that you would work together because you keep

Speaker 5 bringing it, which is hard to do.

Speaker 1 It's all about work, the work.

Speaker 5 Yeah, just keep working.

Speaker 1 Keep

Speaker 1 and having a good time.

Speaker 2 Because our theme here

Speaker 2 casually is S it out. And

Speaker 2 you hosted five times. It's very rare

Speaker 2 to host five times. Five o'clock.
You and John Goodman and a couple others, when you host that show, as you know, you got to pretty much cold read

Speaker 2 55 scripts over four hours, basically.

Speaker 2 And I remember thinking at the time when you came in in 86 or 87, damn, this guy can cold read. Was it, were you known for that, but you were like nailing it, you know, over and over again.

Speaker 2 I don't, you know, it's pretty cool to watch as a young performer.

Speaker 1 Well, it was a lot of fun to sit in that room with all you crazy people and

Speaker 1 have have that pile of scripts in front of you and just go through them

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 i mean that that's like

Speaker 1 uh you know the opportunity to have everybody there pitching what they thought was best best and what you felt comfortable with that's the main thing i think that's key right for would you say like for the hosts uh to be comfortable with all that material.

Speaker 1 Pick the ones that are the ones that suit you best. It's a lucky thing to have

Speaker 1 that

Speaker 1 pack of

Speaker 1 troubadours all sitting around the table.

Speaker 5 It's like old school showbiz kind of.

Speaker 1 Yeah, old school. It's like, yeah, I could imagine what it was like when the Marx brothers were running around all the theaters trying out material, you know, that that would be the same kind of

Speaker 1 thing.

Speaker 1 They just go do, they

Speaker 1 suffer people through

Speaker 1 two hours or three hours of material and then pick the ones that they like best.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Jerry Lewis and Dean Martin did some TV shows in their Don Pardo show me. They said to me, and they would just go up to the director and cut his tie off with a scissor.

Speaker 2 This is Jerry Lewis in the 50s. And they would both just pull the piano over, like destroy the piano.
They were the anarchists then. They're crazy people.

Speaker 2 But one thing about you, I have to say, so we get to it, was on Hans and Franz, when we got you in there as like a pit bull, over-the-top

Speaker 2 Austrian guy who was out of his mind. And you kept, we would berate the audience, the imaginary, and you would start berating them.

Speaker 2 And then you start attacking the camera, and we had to keep holding you back. That was one of the funniest moments I had on that show with you in that sketch.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Hysterical.

Speaker 2 Because you committed so fucking hard.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think sometimes the task of the director for me is, you know, sitting on me, holding me back, get me away from the just try to turn the burners down a little bit, you know.

Speaker 1 Once I get going, I guess that's what happens.

Speaker 5 Burners down.

Speaker 1 It's what happens that way.

Speaker 2 Well, that's what Arnold Arnold told me about you. He said, you know, you got to keep Danny on his feet.
Keep Danny on his feet because his energy goes up.

Speaker 1 He has a short leash.

Speaker 2 Otherwise, he gets going. He gets away at the leash.

Speaker 1 and you have to you have to follow him and get him and bring him back into the scene because the emotions get so high with danny it's funny about it about with arnold arnold and i were thrust together by ivan reitman who just passed away

Speaker 1 uh

Speaker 1 he he uh he called me and said how would you like to be arnold schwarzcheneger's brother i said i mean i'll jump at the chance i thought that was a great idea once we got together it was like we had a great chemistry we breaking balls constantly.

Speaker 1 It was like a kind of like, you know,

Speaker 1 he's so formidable, you know, and like, and he's got a great sense of humor. He does.
Oh, yeah. Like, he's always

Speaker 1 doing all kinds of like, you know, crazy ass shit. And he always had a pack of guys around him, like Franco and.
and

Speaker 1 Franco Colombo. Yeah, and all these guys and these other bodybuilders.
And so it was like a pack of, it was like a pack of bros. It was similar, you know, going into like that with the, you know,

Speaker 1 as a host of Saturday Night Live, going into this pack of like crazy people that were always, you know, that had a secondhand, a shorthand, and

Speaker 1 got along the way you guys did. I don't, you know, at least when I was around you, we were always, you know, fucking around, having a good time.
And so it was a similar kind of thing with Arnold.

Speaker 1 I go in and there would all be these guys

Speaker 1 seriously pumping iron and doing shit and, you know, talking about,

Speaker 1 you know, and I just like, you know, when you get protein,

Speaker 1 all of a sudden a kind of a wrecking ball comes in and starts banging into, you know,

Speaker 1 it was fun. It was a lot of fun.

Speaker 5 Were they going to do a triplets?

Speaker 1 Yeah, we were going to do it. And then

Speaker 1 two,

Speaker 1 this is a,

Speaker 1 I always go by the super bowl because it was i was in atlanta

Speaker 1 uh

Speaker 1 doing a movie and uh

Speaker 1 and uh it was super bowl sunday and i was just get getting over covet

Speaker 1 i was stuck in a room for two weeks and

Speaker 1 and uh the news came that ivan passed away on that day and so this is going to be three

Speaker 1 This is three years now that he's gone.

Speaker 1 Yeah, three years. Two years yeah okay

Speaker 1 brilliant director yeah it was a drag um

Speaker 1 he was uh

Speaker 1 you know he was a lot of fun and uh

Speaker 1 and um made it made a big difference in my life

Speaker 1 well yeah i was told that we were gonna do triplets oh we were gonna do triplets we had a we had a script going everything was going and then when he passed uh his family didn't want to continue with doing it.

Speaker 1 So we're, Arnold and I are working on other things together.

Speaker 5 Oh, good.

Speaker 2 And, you know, that's awesome. We love Arnold.

Speaker 1 The way things.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's a cool guy.

Speaker 1 He's a good guy.

Speaker 2 Hey, David, when it comes to gifting, you know, I've learned there are two types of presents.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 The ones that get returned and the ones that instantly become a favorite. Do you agree?

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Speaker 1 The packaging is beautiful.

Speaker 5 It's very thoughtful. The pieces are comfy enough to wear every day.
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Speaker 2 I know. Yeah, me too.
I mean, I'll open the fridge in December and it's like half a pizza and an orange from 1997. Not a lot of healthy options, David.
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Your future self will thank you.

Speaker 2 Yes. Thank you for not feeding me the leftover lasagna for the 12th time.

Speaker 1 Tracy Morgan was going to come in.

Speaker 5 I'll put a baby in there.

Speaker 1 You know, he's so funny.

Speaker 1 We had a great zoom together, and he was just...

Speaker 1 Off the charts, bananas. Hysterical.

Speaker 1 I mean, that energy in there was delight.

Speaker 1 It don't get any easy that's that you know

Speaker 1 that's the way you know the way things things

Speaker 1 things go you know

Speaker 1 like um

Speaker 1 they

Speaker 1 you know you have to always adjust as like we we do

Speaker 2 did you have the role that got away danny uh

Speaker 2 or maybe a conflict he had he had to do another movie instead

Speaker 1 of choices

Speaker 1 that i couldn't do

Speaker 1 I hadn't had one of those that that was

Speaker 1 really substantial that

Speaker 1 you could look back and say, you know,

Speaker 1 no, I've had roles that I desperately wanted and got, which I got, I had to work hard to get.

Speaker 1 If you can't imagine,

Speaker 1 you know, how everybody holds out, you know, you get a part, no, somebody says, the last minute,

Speaker 1 you get a part, and it's the one you wanted.

Speaker 1 And that's really

Speaker 1 the ones I think about. Ones that got away, I don't know.
I can't, you know.

Speaker 5 Were you going to be Costanza?

Speaker 1 Oh, no, no. I think, like, you mean like in Seinfeld?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 I wasn't.

Speaker 1 They just,

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 1 When,

Speaker 1 yeah, I was still, I don't know what I was doing at the time.

Speaker 1 Midnight. But

Speaker 1 I did a movie called The Ratings Game,

Speaker 1 which

Speaker 1 was done for Showtime. It was the first movie that I directed.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I cast

Speaker 1 in that movie

Speaker 1 as a it was his one of his first things on camera, Jerry Seinfeld.

Speaker 1 I don't know if he had done anything before this,

Speaker 1 but

Speaker 1 I cast him as an agent.

Speaker 1 And coincidentally,

Speaker 1 there were a couple of character,

Speaker 1 really wild characters in the movie. I cast Michael Richards in the same movie.
Oh, really? Yeah. Wow.
I didn't know that they would later be teamed up in Seinfeld, but this was like in

Speaker 1 83.

Speaker 1 When did Seinfeld go on?

Speaker 1 93, 234.

Speaker 2 I'm sorry. Something like that.

Speaker 1 So 10 years earlier, I did a movie called The Ratings Game, and

Speaker 1 both Jerry Seinfeld and Michael Richards were in it.

Speaker 2 Did Jerry ask you questions

Speaker 2 about how to direct?

Speaker 2 How do you want me to play this scene? Did he ever say that to you?

Speaker 1 No, I don't.

Speaker 5 He's pretty kind of serious in real life, I think.

Speaker 5 By the way, which Batman did you work with? I can't remember.

Speaker 1 Batman Returns.

Speaker 5 Who was the Batman again?

Speaker 1 Oswald. Oh, no.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 2 I love my.

Speaker 2 I do. I'm not just because you're on our show right now.
I love your penguin. I loved it.

Speaker 2 Your Oswald penguin. I thought.
Didn't you have fun doing that?

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 2 your get up was so crazy.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, I had fun doing that.

Speaker 1 That was one of the ones that I really wanted. And

Speaker 1 I met Tim and

Speaker 1 we had a great,

Speaker 1 you know, conversation about it. And I knew he had done a lot of drawings.
And we sat in his office and

Speaker 1 looked at it. And I really, really wanted to play that.
And

Speaker 1 the makeup was the first makeup was, I was in the chair for almost five hours. And then we got it down to three.

Speaker 1 But we stayed around three, three and a three, three and change.

Speaker 1 And it was amazing. And it was the thing about, I liked about that was, you know, like I said, I like to go big.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 boy, oh, boy, Oswald was written like an opera. I mean, he could go, he take this guy you know I mean he just was he was slapping his flippers off the walls baby you know I mean your bird

Speaker 1 he was the wicked witch he was all of it all in one yes

Speaker 1 yeah and that was after okay that was after so I'd worked with I did the you know we did romancing the stone jewel of the Nile great and then War of the Roses with Michael and Kathleen.

Speaker 1 And I was huge. I was just about thinking about what we were going to do again because I was trying to pull a Fritz Lang, you know, where you, as a director, you cast, you know, the same people

Speaker 1 in all of your movies, but they play different parts. And, and then Batman came along.
And it's odd the way things, you know, emerge. Most of the movies that I've done,

Speaker 1 you know, came out of the blue. And I was very, you're very fortunate.
You know, I was going to direct a pilot in, I was sitting in the

Speaker 1 commissary of Paramount. And

Speaker 1 I was just about to make the deal. Like, with, oh, I was talking to the writer and I was talking to the producer, and it was at Paramount.
And I was going to be the, I was directing this pilot, and

Speaker 1 I had a yellow pad full of notes,

Speaker 1 you know, about the pilot script. And I knew I was getting really steely daggers from the writer

Speaker 1 who was also the producer. And a woman, this was in the days, we didn't have cell phones and stuff.
A woman from the, like the commissary, I was in the commissary all the time because of taxi.

Speaker 1 That's where we shot. taxi.
She came over to me and she said, you have a phone call. It was like the old Hollywood days.

Speaker 1 She didn't bring it to the table, but I got up and went over to where the phone was.

Speaker 1 And it was Michael Douglas.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 he rescued me from doing that pilot

Speaker 1 because we had shot

Speaker 1 Romancing the Stone already.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 yes, Romancing the Stone. And he said, what are you doing? I heard you're going to do a pilot.
And I said, yeah, man, I'm struggling through this meeting right now. He well, you can't do that.

Speaker 1 You got to, we got to go on the road, man. We're going all over the world to promote the movie.
And I said, I love you, baby.

Speaker 5 Yeah, get me out of here.

Speaker 1 I love you. You rescued my ass.

Speaker 5 All right. I got a question.

Speaker 1 Go.

Speaker 5 Did you ever go see, you were on a show called Taxi, you might not remember, but did you ever see

Speaker 5 Andy Kaufman go do stand-up, just like at the comedy store?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And how was that?

Speaker 1 That was that was bizarre. Yeah, bizarre.
Yeah. But I went to see him do that and I saw him and I went out to eat at the restaurant.
He waited. He busboyed out in the valley.

Speaker 1 It was

Speaker 1 after he was on Jackson.

Speaker 1 Yeah, while he was on the show.

Speaker 1 He busboyed out in,

Speaker 1 I think, I'm not sure the link to Delhi. Yeah, it was a good,

Speaker 1 might have been Katz's, no, no, what the hell? In the valley, it wasn't Ark's deli. It was the other one.
It's closed now.

Speaker 1 Jerry's

Speaker 1 out in, it was on San, is it on Ventura Boulevard? It was Jerry's is, yeah. Jerry's.
Yeah, that was, that was, that was probably. That might have been it.
Yeah, Jerry's. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 you know, we went out. We had like

Speaker 1 a couple of us from the show. I think Tony might have been with me.
Judd might have come.

Speaker 1 We just one night went out and

Speaker 1 we knew he was working. And so we went and ate and, you know, had conversations with him, like you would have with the bus boy.

Speaker 1 No, not Andy. Andy's nowhere around.

Speaker 5 All right, he's the bus boy.

Speaker 1 He was the bus boy.

Speaker 1 It was like really great.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 that was, that guy was like,

Speaker 1 yeah,

Speaker 1 we had some fun. His dressing was right next to mine.
We would,

Speaker 1 he was,

Speaker 1 he was hysterical one day.

Speaker 1 Somebody was delivering a package, and it was a woman, and he started yelling at her because she was,

Speaker 1 I don't know, UPS, so I can't remember what.

Speaker 1 Maybe it was the government. I don't know what the fuck it was, but she's walking in.
She's got a uniform on.

Speaker 1 She's delivering a package to somebody, and he tells her that she should be home you know she's taking a man's job and he hooked her into a wrestling match

Speaker 1 i was there for that one right in the hallway

Speaker 1 both of them turning red you know what i mean like

Speaker 1 chokeholds we gotta break that part a couple of times

Speaker 1 you could do that crazy

Speaker 5 I don't think you could, actually.

Speaker 1 I mean, you could do that. You could do.
Yeah, I don't know. There was no, like you know again

Speaker 1 if that was a it was that was today somebody would be out with a cell phone and the next thing you know it would be online and people would comment about it and they would say you know but i'll tell you the woman that he was fighting was as big as he was and and she did a good job man really had his ass down

Speaker 1 big time you know

Speaker 1 it was it was uh

Speaker 1 i don't know if tony i always wondered if Tony always had a little camera with him, Danza. And I was wondering if he,

Speaker 1 you know, had one of those little

Speaker 1 always had a hand quarter eight millimeters.

Speaker 5 Did were you cast before Andy? Were you cast first? Or did you have any hand in the camera?

Speaker 1 No, I think Andy might have been cast. I was, I was the last,

Speaker 1 I think I might have been one of the last members to be cast.

Speaker 1 And the, the, uh,

Speaker 1 the, the

Speaker 1 story was that I was told later was that my part was actually written as like a voice that came over the loudspeaker, like kind of like Carlton the doorman. Yes, they remember Carlton.

Speaker 1 All involved in that guy.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 then

Speaker 1 ultimately, you know, I came in and did my famous audition where I

Speaker 1 said,

Speaker 1 I said to them before they just introduced me, and I said to Brooks and Weinberger and

Speaker 1 Stan Danny, Dave Davis was there, all the guys sitting around. I said, one thing I want to know before I start, who wrote this shit? And I threw it on the table.

Speaker 1 And it was like a split second of like, am I going to get thrown out? Not even, you know, a nanosecond. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And then they just fucking pissed themselves. Right.
And then it was one of those auditions where

Speaker 1 couldn't say anything, you couldn't do anything wrong. I'd say, and,

Speaker 1 and I'd get a laugh. You know,

Speaker 1 it wasn't, you know, it was the

Speaker 1 that was

Speaker 1 the casting director was Joel Thurm.

Speaker 1 He said, you got to come and do this.

Speaker 1 You know, and I say, yeah, man, okay.

Speaker 5 Cool. What a fucking score.

Speaker 1 That was such a score. That was.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 What was weirder working with Andy Kaufman on taxi or then doing the man on the moon with Jim Carrey doing Andy Kaufman.

Speaker 1 I think working with Jim was

Speaker 1 like really off the charts. That was the most fun.

Speaker 1 Like, I've had fun, like, on

Speaker 1 sure. I'm really fortunate.
I had fun on a lot of the movie. You know, I've never had one of those, oh, fuck, that was awful movies.
I always had these like really quirky kind of things.

Speaker 1 And being on the set with Jim Carrey,

Speaker 1 sorry about that.

Speaker 1 Being on the set Carrie was, oh, oh, it is Jim. No, I'm only kidding.

Speaker 1 He was like

Speaker 1 in so far in, you know, all the stars. We saw the documentary.
I was producing that movie. And so, my, I, but also playing, God rest his soul, George Shapiro.

Speaker 1 Anyway,

Speaker 1 he was busting my balls constantly. And, you know, and Milos is.
Then, see, it's infectious because then what would happen? We were having fun, but Milo should go to me,

Speaker 1 you gotta go to Matthew's trailer. I'm losing time.

Speaker 1 I gotta get the, you know, I am, the studio is gonna be on my ass.

Speaker 1 And I'm going,

Speaker 1 Andy, Jim,

Speaker 1 Tony, Tony,

Speaker 1 come on out. And he's going, you know,

Speaker 1 but it was fun. It was even though it was like, you know, and I've got a lot of friends who worked on that movie and we still talk about that experience because

Speaker 1 Pam Abdi was my assistant at the time.

Speaker 1 She was there and knowing that I was going through what was going on. I mean, he did things like he's, okay, we're acting in the movie, but I'm also the producer, one of the producers of the movie.

Speaker 1 And so he would get mad at the

Speaker 1 and he like he pulled his car up to my trailer. and went up, you know, there's got the little metal steps.
Yeah. Shammed his car up, put it in gear or something, locked it, took the keys.

Speaker 1 I couldn't get out of my trail.

Speaker 1 Teamsters had to come with a crane to get the car. You know, it was like one of those,

Speaker 1 it was a crazy, crazy time.

Speaker 5 I love Jim Carrey. Jim Carrey is fucking great.
Just the fact that he committed that.

Speaker 2 Did he get nominated for best actor for that?

Speaker 1 I don't know. I don't know.
We had a really brilliant.

Speaker 1 It was a,

Speaker 1 he was brilliant in that part. And,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 seriously,

Speaker 1 would turn it on and off when he wanted. So that was like one of those things where whenever he came to the set, he was always in character.
But if you see him, like, you know,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 off, like, I went to his house or something like that for a

Speaker 1 me, you know, some thing. He was like, cool.
He wasn't

Speaker 1 you know he wasn't like a serial killer off the

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 1 off the side he's very a sort of a quiet sweet guy yeah quiet sweet guy but then turned into like tony clifton i love it which was like tony clifton is a whole other that was

Speaker 1 yeah

Speaker 1 we we we shot at a place called chasins down on i remember that that place okay he spread there was some kind of i don't know union strike or something. There was something going on.

Speaker 1 He wrote like big letters, like, you know, in red ink, I mean, red spray paint all over the building.

Speaker 1 I had to repaint the entire building.

Speaker 5 It's like a Farley. It's like having a crazy person on the side.

Speaker 1 Like, like, Chris,

Speaker 1 I can't imagine what it was like.

Speaker 1 I always loved Chris and

Speaker 1 because he would take it to that, you know. Oh, yeah.
He was always the one.

Speaker 1 Same kind of thing.

Speaker 5 Just a lot of attention, a lot of craziness.

Speaker 1 Chris.

Speaker 5 Lovable, sweet guy like Jim. I mean, just, but they really liven things up.
There's always a story after the fact.

Speaker 1 There's always a story.

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Speaker 5 Dana, I gotta ask Danny about

Speaker 5 always an always sunny question because we can't let you go without talking about always sunny.

Speaker 5 One question of mine is, I don't see all the episodes, but I see a lot of it on Instagram, which I don't know if you know this, but when they show TikTok and Instagram clips, they're always so fucking filthy.

Speaker 5 I'm like, are these from the real show? Are they getting away with all this stuff?

Speaker 1 Are they filthy? I don't know. I don't, I don't.

Speaker 5 I mean, like, just they're very R-rated. And I thought, yeah, the show.

Speaker 5 I mean, people love that fucking show. They love it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the show is a little,

Speaker 2 you know, I don't know

Speaker 1 what you're talking about, but we have had some

Speaker 1 innuendos. Hilarious.
I guess, yeah.

Speaker 5 Yeah, there's some innuendos for sure.

Speaker 5 I'm not sure if they're even innuendos. They're just straight ahead.
But yeah, it's so funny. And

Speaker 5 it's such a long run.

Speaker 5 It sounds like a gift, I'm sure. Just

Speaker 5 being with fun. They all look fun as shit.
I don't know everybody that well.

Speaker 1 No, they're all,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 when I got this show,

Speaker 1 Landgraff was my buddy and he showed me the

Speaker 1 FX.

Speaker 1 And then I met them and they were, you know, just the way they are.

Speaker 1 And the same, you know, the three oddballs. And then I met Caitlin and

Speaker 1 she's like hysterical.

Speaker 1 Hilarious.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 yeah,

Speaker 1 they're a lot of fun to go to work with. You know, yeah, it's good.
It's a good job. It's been on there forever.
Keeps giving. Keeps giving.
And now Matilda, we have to talk about. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Matilda came to me yeah which you directed the movie i did i directed the movie and and i you know i i saw mara wilson in in uh in uh the uh

Speaker 1 uh movie uh mrs doubt fire and uh she was a little bit older when i met her perfect for matilda And we shot the movie and it was great. We had a great time.
That was like, that was fun. That was

Speaker 1 hundreds of kids it was no cg we added kids and all that stuff yeah yeah this was all real kids it was really great me on the stage with a bullhorn yeah do this do that you know like

Speaker 1 and uh get your finger out of your nose we're shooting okay strangling cats yeah

Speaker 1 yeah and so now we're doing it on uh we've taken the sound out you know you've seen these things uh everybody's does it with ET and does it with Star Wars and does it with Back to the Future.

Speaker 1 I took the soundtrack out and David Newman is going to conduct the Philharmonic. It's a symphony orchestra.
Okay, okay. New Jersey Symphony Orchestra.
And we're doing that. Here's the thing.

Speaker 1 You take the sound out, okay,

Speaker 1 just the music out. But I narrate the movie as well as play a part in it.

Speaker 1 when I'm narrating, I'm on stage actually with the symphony orchestra. It's really intimidating, but it's really a lot of fun.
Yeah. And you're watching the, you know, the streamer go by.

Speaker 1 I got a monitor with the movie. He's conducting the score.
The people are watching the movie. I've got a brand new print and it's just beautiful.
The print is like gorgeous. And

Speaker 1 then when the stream, when it's my turn to narrate,

Speaker 1 talk,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 he conducts. It's like being conducted.
Over it? you talk over it?

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, in the movie, I play the part of Wormwood, Mr. Wormwood, and I also narrate the movie.

Speaker 1 So, because I tried to find somebody to narrate the movie, but I, I being the egotist I am, I couldn't

Speaker 1 embarrass anybody else, cast yourself,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 uh,

Speaker 1 and it's kind of a trip to see, you know, you play the part, you're narrated the movie. And I've got uh, Rhea, of course, plays Mrs.
Wormwood. She's going to come on the 22nd.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I've got Pam Ferris coming over from England. She played the Trunch Bowl.
It's really astounding how many kids love the Trunch Bowl.

Speaker 5 Miss Trunchbowl.

Speaker 1 Miss Trunch Bowl. She was like,

Speaker 1 really,

Speaker 1 yeah, really.

Speaker 5 And Mari. By the way, I don't hear about a lot of these things, Danny.
You don't hear about

Speaker 5 the symphony, maybe with a Star Wars or something, but this is a really interesting thing to do.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 5 Fun, challenging situation.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 David Newman, who wrote the score,

Speaker 1 we've done this once before. We did it once before.

Speaker 1 We did it a few years ago with an orchestra from the East Coast, not New Jersey. And it worked out really great.
It's fun.

Speaker 1 It's a fun night because you get,

Speaker 1 you know, but but you're right usually it's done with uh more uh like back to the future-y kind of et blockbuster crazy movies this one is um it's got a lot of music in it so it's fun who who wrote the score david newman he's uh he's one of the

Speaker 1 yeah the newman uh pack there's a well as soon as the newmans were born the father was uh the head of uh 20th century fox music did did all the

Speaker 1 scores of all the old movies that we love. And his brother, they have the whole, you always see the Newman name on.
And then David,

Speaker 1 David scores Thomas Newman, Randy Newman. They're all related, these guys.
They were all like, as soon as they're born, they give them a violin or a put or stick them, little babies.

Speaker 1 The first thing the Newmans do.

Speaker 5 Yeah, even

Speaker 5 Eric Newman is his son. Randy's son produces produces narcos, a lot of movies.
So

Speaker 2 everyone's in the biz.

Speaker 1 Yeah, everybody's in the biz.

Speaker 1 So this should be a really good night. Sounds great.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 are you guys in the East Coast?

Speaker 2 Are you here sometimes?

Speaker 5 We are in California, but if I was out there, I'd crash that party.

Speaker 5 Hey guys, if you're loving this podcast, which you are, be sure to click follow on your favorite podcast app.

Speaker 5 Give us review, five-star rating, and maybe even share an episode that you've loved with a friend.

Speaker 2 If you're watching this episode on YouTube, please subscribe.

Speaker 1 We're on video now.

Speaker 5 Fly on the Wall is presented by Odyssey, an executive produced by Danny Carvey and David Spade, Heather Santoro and Greg Holtzman, Maddie Sprung-Kaiser, and Leah Reese Dennis of Odyssey.

Speaker 2 Our senior producer is Greg Holtzman, and the show is produced and edited by Phil Sweet Tech.

Speaker 5 Booking by Cultivated Entertainment.

Speaker 2 Special thanks to Patrick Fogarty, Evan Cox, Maura Curran, Melissa Wester, Hilary Schuff, Eric Donnelly, Colin Gaynor, Sean Cherry, Kurt Courtney, and Lauren Vieira.

Speaker 5 Reach out with us any questions to be asked and answered on the show. You can email us at flyonthewall at odyssey.com.
That's AUDACY.com.